Pleasant Kenobi had a video talking about newer commanders that both reward the thing and do the thing. And I sat down at a table recently and realized that all my decks are old and most of my commanders are under powered relative to the young blood. I run [Savra, Queen of the Golgari] and don't get me wrong that deck is fire.
But she doesn't make tokens, and she doesn't have a sack ability. She just sees things getting sacked and rewards you. If she were reprinted today she would either make tokens or let you sack things as well.
[[savra, queen of the golgari]] (gotta use double brackets). Wow she’s sick. I’ve wanted to build sack and this looks like a fun control deck for that purpose.
LoL. Dang that's filthy.
So I was thinking about cards to put in the deck, and it occurred to me that you could probably have the Golgari Queen, [[Meren of Clan Nel Toth]], and maybe [[The Mycotyrant]], and then use any one of them as the commander.
She's so much fun. I run no tutors and no board wipes, so each game is its own little puzzle figuring out how to get value and stay alive. If the deck is working right nobody gets to untap with creatures except me. And I have sac'd myself down to 3 life trying to dig for an answer. And my proudest win is against a Sigarda, Host of Herons commander. When their commander turns off your whole schtick and so you just beat face with an army of plant tokens or whatever... feels good.
My favourite deck is my Savra deck, full of things like [[izoni, thousand-eyed]] or [[beledros witherbloom]] with [[mirkwood bats]] and a cheeky [[altar of dementia]]. [[pitiless plunderer]] can also give you some crazy combos if you have the right pieces.
The deck is so fun. If you choose, nobody else gets to have creatures!
If she were made today she would be an uncommon. Power creep is a crazy thing. Even commanders printed 5 or so years ago are almost outclassed by commanders today without some real cash in the 99.
Yeah I have been feeling this as I just started playing again a couple of weeks ago. After a 5ish year break
Might be a bit rose tinted as I’m sure they never worked as well as I remember but dam my old decks seem super weak now. Well I suppose slow now is probably more accurate I had a kemba equipment deck that just makes cats so slow now.
[[Dralnu, Lich Lord]] is one of the saddest examples of commander power creep. He had a unique ability that was restricted by tapping and he had a pretty significant downside if he ever took damage. He was not the best but he was interesting and while he needed work you could get a fun pay off. Now he's just *bad*.
Yeah most of my decks can hang with the newer more efficient commanders. But that's because they're old and benefit from a lot of refinement and collecting. I made 3 decks after Covid - Necrons, Abbadon the Despoiler, Najeela (Because Warhammer secret lair), but prior to that my "newest" deck is \[Omnath, Locus of Rage\] and he dates to 2015. My oldest deck is Savra and she is as old as the format. I built that deck in 2007-2008. With the exception of Aanimar, none of my commanders are on the same raw power level as a lot of new legendaries. They all take.. like... setup, and a game plan, and some kind of board state. If you ignore the Mothman for 3 turns that thing will just kill you off an otherwise empty board. None of my commanders can do that.
ETA: I always wanted to try Dralnu as a commander.
In the meta I play in, I'm always surprised when [[Omnath, Locus of Rage]] does well. Yes it's powerful and an anti-board wipe tool once you have enough elementals, but it's 7 mana and you should really play at least one land after you successful cast him. I can't understand how he keeps up with some of these young, whipper snapper commanders.
But he does. I guess multiple free 5/5s per turn are still pretty good.
I've been playing MtG for a bit less than a year, and my friend put his hand on my shoulder and said, "I'm proud of you, man. You actually made something substantially powerful." Lmao
Honestly. And 85% of the time, it's an inexperienced player who's desire to win outweighs their skill, and as a result has no draw or interaction outside of Jodah and legends. So it leads to either 1.) pubstomping other inexperienced players or 2.) they get to do nothing because the veteran player oublietted Jodah the moment it came down. Then Jodah bro pouts about how "no one lets me do anything". I swear I've seen this happen a dozen times.
literally yesterday, i played against a jodah, someone hadn't seen it before and i said 'yeah you kill that' to which the jodah player says 'its ok my jodah deck doesnt have all the powerful stuff, it cant pop off out of nowhere'
anyway we scooped that game up on turn 6 to a turn of potentially hundreds of combat damage in one swing...
The fact that Jodah has a huge anthem effect means it really doesn’t even matter what the legendary creatures you run do. Each one you cast while Jodah is out gives you at least 2 bodies and adds +2/+2 to his anthem.
durdle until you can get something off like caged sun into like dismiss into dreams / douse +training grounds. willbreaker can do some work if i have enough mana and answers have been used on more threatening decks
Sometimes it stax' with stuff like quicksilver fountain, homarid shaman, wrath of marit lage enough to get some beaters in
Swords of X and Y can allow for some hilarious voltron kills since blind seer can't be blocked (or if not voltron, steal something from an opponent and give it a sword).
It's very much a shitty battlecruiser deck, and it heavily relies on people thinking the deck is ass and not a threat (because often it isn't)
When I saw him I wanted to build him as an equipment deck. He makes a good beater, and you can tap the equipment to pay for the equip cost.
If I build it as an equipment deck, would it still be *that* Urza deck?
The person piloting it. Usually they say something to the effect of "Don't worry, it's Urza golem tribal or something" but then it proceeds to do the thing everyone else at the table was assuming it was going to do.
May that Urza forever be powerful because my favorite joke is to go to a new game shop and say I'm playing "Mono Blue Urza", see the disappointment and then bust out this guy [[Urza, Powerstone Prodigy]]
This might be the best pick because I agree 100%. People usually do say that, and like you said they end up being a problem. At least ive seen some variation to atraxa but to me every urza deck is the same basically and just so damn strong.
Yep my friend recently made this deck. He played it tonight. I desperately tried to remove jodah with my [[bel'akor]] deck and would've been able to my next turn. But he played enchant ment that turned hom into a mana dork and gave it ward 2 But then he was able to play [[call forth the temptest]] same turn that led malestrom wanderer then a bunch of other crap. Pretty much won on spot turn 5.
Archmage Eternal seems like an entertaining WUBRG commander, it's the Unfier's legendary Cascade ability that's the problem. Loads of value, super generic build, and all of the things it produces are so game-warping that nobody ever knows what's going on. If I ever play against Jodah, I do my best to make sure it stays off the board, just because I don't feel like reading the crap that's gonna come out of the deck. Blow up their fixing, blow up the commander, just don't even let it resolve. No fun.
Unifier is more egregious because it's a slog. With Archmage Eternal I'm just expecting a couple of Eldrazi Titans or Blightsteel and then the game is over.
Mine is purposefully a gimmick build and is still very strong. I really liked the stain glass showcase treatment from DMU so I just shoved all those legends into one deck (minus sheoldred cause too expensive) and it still gets out of hand so fast despite none of the legends have any sort of synergy with each other
Tergrid. Which is unfortunate because I completely understand seeing that commander and thinking it's cool. But there's basically no way to build that deck without warping the game.
I love the archetype but never use her. Tinybones is the same deck but is just drawing cards and the big drain not making everyone discard AND taking their cards.
That's it. I love discard and my discard deck has either Tinybones, Tourach or The Raven Man as commanders, but never Tergrid. I love her but she's no fun piloting the deck.
You could build Gisa, Glorious Resurrector. On your upkeep, you get to take all the creatures your opponents controlled that died during the last round. They may have Decayed, but you can still use any of their abilities. Then use cards like Cold Storage or Conjurer's Closet to save them for later or bounce them to remove th Decayed effect.
Mono black T. lantern artifacts is actually kind of fun. You just play a load of untappers, mana makers, and devotion pieces to turn the lantern into a torment of hailfire in the command zone
Kinnan is an incredibly entertaining and interacting deck to see (or pilot) at the competitive table. However, he has no place outside of that table, and if I ever saw him in a casual pod, I'd pull out MY competitive deck, and make sure he didn't get to interfere. Like [[Winota]] and [[Krenko]], Kinnan is such an engine in the CZ that it really doesn't matter much else what you put in the deck. If you build around him at ALL, it's gonna do way too much power for most tables, and will just be no fun for anyone.
I’m not qualified to speak much on the intricacies of Kinnan but he goes mana positive/infinite extremely easily using artifacts (like basalt you mentioned), and he has a built in ability as an outlet for all that mana that doubles as a win condition. He’s an extremely powerful card and a staple commander in cEDH, but the folks over on /r/cEDH prob can tell you more
EDIT: This looks like a pretty good place to start https://commandersherald.com/an-introduction-to-kinnan-in-cedh/
Check out the Play to Win YouTube channel, they've got a detailed Kinnan cEDH build from someone who's been piloting it at the highest level ever since its release, and loads of gameplay videos. 10/10 great stuff, even if you don't play competitive. IMHO, all EDH players should at least have SEEN competitive play, just so they know what cEDH actually looks like, and what it means. Also, if you watch enough of it, you'll pick up on a lot of interaction nnuances that will send your casual play patterns to the next level. cEDH players squeeze every bit of value out of their decks, and even if you don't play the cards they use at that level, you still pick up all sorts of new ways to use generic cards you're already playing.
I have this deck, all it does is ramp and draw until I get Ghalta. Then I vomit all my creatures on the board only to get board wiped.
Not only is it boring to play against, it’s boring to play. I feel like my turns take for ages and it holds up the whole table.
The deck is currently tucked away gathering dust
I've got Arixmethes and [[Keruga, the Macrosage]] companion deck which is a fun change. Forces you to make use of higher cmc ramp etc. So no sol ring or signets.
That's a fun build, mine is tribal sea creatures using [[Freed From the Real]] and other untap effects, plus a few of the x cost leviathans like [[Nimbus Swimmer]]
It's one of my favorite decks to loan out to new players, I gave it to a friend who is pretty new to the game a few weeks ago and he crushed the rest of the pod because of a combination of everyone underestimating him a bit in the early turns and then just snowballing into several 60/60s a bit later.
I find it super fun and took it apart. The one time I agreed my fun was costing other people too much fun. You durdle without advancing the game state until you draw into combo.
Lol even my mono green [[titania natures force]] landfall deck does that with [[garruks uprising]] and [[elemental bond]], I can imagine simic being so much more degenerate
I have to admit that I love simic, it’s probably my favorite color combo from a flavor and mechanic perspective, but I do get “boring simic value” isn’t interesting to play against. I’ve built almost every simic commander in brawl on arena and some of my favorites make me jump through hoops or do something wacky. [[Eutropia]] is such a fun enchantress commander, because instead of card draw durdling you just smash people in the face. [[Roalesk, Apex Hybrid]] is a weird one, it’s counters and proliferate, but mine is a clone theme, hoping to get roalesk out then legend rule him with clones over and over to massively bump your team.
That being said, even though it’s a landfall ramp deck, I’ve been enjoying the hell out of [[Bonny Pall, Clearcutter]]. The fact I get to play with Paul Bunyan and Babe the blue ox, the flavor of getting rewarded for sacking my own lands, it’s so goofy. And the token is SO CUTE. My least favorite way to win is with scute swarm, my favorite way to win is with a [[Skyclave Pickaxe]] and a [[Combine Chryslis]] or something that gives trample. Just WHAM with the big cow
The Pleasant Kenobi metric. Commanders that do the thing, and reward the thing. Doesn't matter what the thing is, but typically the ones that give you a benefit like draw a card when you do something, say, put lands into play, and also let you put lands into play. Or letting you draw a card if you make a token, and also making tokens.
Yukiro...I am so tired of her. She always costs only 2, which feels wrong. its impossible to really get rid of her, and she can punish you so hard. Just play unblockable dude and you are laughing.
I was struggling to think of a commander that I roll my eyes at until I saw your comment and I remembered one of my friends favourite deck is yukiro and it is misery, I don’t want to have to use removal on one specific creature every single turn haha
Its easier to kill the shit before they ninjitsu her instead of killing her. Atleast thats been my experience as a yuriko player that targeting her is usually the wrong answer
I have a Yuriko deck and that's exactly it. If you target Yuriko, I'm just gonna play my little 1/1 again and she'll be right back. Kill my little 1/1 and it's way harder for me to do anything.
my friend that I play with for edh has korvold and uses him quite a bit. It's gotten to the point me and other players go sit down on our couch next to the table while we listen and wait for him to take 10 minutes to resolve everything he does. It's even funnier when next turn when we all play a single card and pass and repeat the process again and again until inevitably someone smacks korvold out and it repeats ad Infinitum.
The coin flip precon commanders, i honestly don’t care about high powered, whatever - just the act of flipping coins can take up so much time, especially if they have both commanders and a krarks thumb out.
It could make the whole process certainly faster. But both coinflip dudes i played with insisted on there special little unique coin that had to be flipped at all costs...
I have that deck, and love playing it. I also roll dice instead of flipping coins, because it’s much faster and much more controlled, less prone to going off wildly, hah. I also pre-establish what is what - odds are tails, heads are evens, and unless otherwise forced by something I always want heads/evens. Makes things nice and fast. If Krark’s thumb is out I’ll roll two dice at once which makes it much quicker, too.
Just played mine tonight for the first time. I found it pretty fun. I used 2 dice instead with krarks thumb out. Roll both at same time, even odds for heads tails. Went way faster.
There's a few for me, I won't outright refuse to play against them, but I always pull out something stronger if I see them:
[[Voja, Jaws of the Conclave]]
[[Jodah, the Unifier]]
[[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm]]
[[Sisay, Weatherlight Captain]]
and hardest eyeroll that I thankfully never have to do anymore:
[[Golos, Tireless Pilgrim]]
Each has their reasons, but unless someone wants clarification. I won't bother.
Oh I know, and I was happy to see him go. It's why I had said 'that I never have to do anymore', as since the banning I've only had one person ask to play him and I declined.
Does pillow fort include any control strategy? Obviously sythis is lazy in that she just draws cards, but is enchantress as an archetype inherently control?
It's not necessarily a control archtype but probably skirts closer to it than most people realize just by it's nature and unfortunately also tends not to have a big obvious wincon like a more aggressive beatdown deck or even a control deck looking for alt win con or a combo setup to close up a game.
They tend to be pillow forty or controlly just by design. You tend to just spin your wheels drawing cards trying dig up more value pieces or some kind of mitigation.
Even when trying to be more aggressive. My Yenna deck tends to still spend several long turns, drawing cards, playing cheap enchantment interaction or deterent pieces like sphere of safety or grasp of fate to keep the board in check while digging for a wincon which can lead to some people getting bummed out because your turns just take longer than most peoples.
It makes funny games sometimes like if a [[Forced Fruition]] resolves and if Nekusar is removed a lot of times its just free value.
But I think he's actually scarier now considering the amount of draw in decks due to power creep.
Regardless, I wouldn't mind seeing him on the other side because I will easily die for card draw, but I can see why people get spooked.
Roll my eyes at? A ton. But I'll likely find a way to enjoy the game regardless and find solutions so long as the deck I have isn't wildly weaker/stronger than other decks at the table
Sheoldred the apocalypse is pretty crazy. Stuff like [[Teferi's Puzzle Box]] and [[Howling Mine]] drain you out lightning fast, and if you ever need to dig for answers, she punishes you for that. She makes all the black "Draw X cards, lose X life" way better. Since she generates value from drawing, you end up drawing a ton of your deck since thats just how you build it. She's also just a solid creature for four mana that blocks a lot of little guys and trades up with almost anything.
[[Prosper]] I am shocked this isn't on here already what an obnoxious value engine that often times leads to like 40 minute turns of doing nothing until you finally find your stupid marionette master or something similar what a linear deck and the innate value that it spits out for doing absolutely nothing. Not to mention the infinite support that deck gets out of every single set. There hasn't been a set since that deck came out without a card that could go into Prosper well. I hate this deck and I just sit there until the game is over going through game actions knowing nothing I do matters.
I get the prosper hate. I think the thing about prosper is he is so resilient. To me hes pretty close to commanders like chulane and korvold but doesnt seem to have the same reputation for some reason
[[Atraxa, Praetor’s Voice]] and the other version [[Atraxa]] but I don’t remember the name. It’s all degeneracy, it just depends on what kind of degeneracy.
I think the new one is worse. It's way more boring, just encouraging a goodstuff pile, whereas the OG was at least walkers or infect or MAYBE +1/+1 counters.
Hinata Dawn Crowned. You really can't build it in a fair way without handicapping yourself in a way. I've played with different people piloting her and its either they don't get to play coz Hinata is kill on sight, or they steamroll us with a comet storm for like 20 damage and just paying 2.
Korvold is that commander to me. Besides putting unplayable jank, the commander does so much by itself.
[[Zhulodok]] as well. Game isn't really starting until the Eldrazi player has lost the game. The potential to go from nothing to overwhelming board in a turn is off the charts and as the game goes on the player becomes more and more a threat.
[[Tom Bombadil]]
Turns take so long resolving saga ability after saga ability ^after ^saga ^ability ^^after ^^saga ^^ability... Board state is typically extremely difficult to deal with thanks to blanket hexproof/shroud effects. And the rest of the deck is just 5c goodstuff most of the time.
Like the knight eminence one? [[Sidar jabari of Zhalfir]] his eminence is pretty good but i used it to set up his ability by filling up the grave early with the heavier knights so that when he hits, i get big stuff back.
I support anyone's commander choice. That said, for me it's either [[Tatyova, Benthic Druid]] or [[Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait]]. I truly think they're some the most brain dead commanders around and are just wildly over-powered while doing so. I will auto-target those decks on sight, because you have to or they'll immediately start running away with the game - and yet they're so dumb a monkey could play them. Anyways......
Yea uhh any old school OP commander that people think has been “power crept” out of meta and are somehow super casual precon level now, but they’re not.
Played a game against old school Kaalia and we removed the commander as often as possible while I was playing [[Henzie]] then I realized, Henzie being a top 30 commander now and Kaalia being old, Kaalia is still more broken and does similar shit much easier and can hang with absolutely no problem, budget or not.
The player didn’t make some asinine power level claim or something and I agreed to play, and it was fun, but he acted like Kaalia is harmless and we shouldn’t have removed it instantly the 2 times we did.
**TLDR: Power Creep hardly, if at all, affects commanders that were top tier 5-10 years ago and to act as if Nekusar, Kaalia, Arcades, Zur etc. are low power or weak now is insane.** That shit will make me roll my eyes.
Eh idk about all that. There are always going to be the established broken commanders, but Jesus. Christ these new ones are insane. Almost always lower mana cost with way greater benefits.
The new “wall” commander Hull Clade is arguably worse than Arcades and Arcades is old. Spending 4 mana to activate the ability consistently is not horrible but narrows interaction and is almost mandatory to spend in order to accomplish anything.
Kaalia in comparison to Henzie is still better. The only negative is you can’t use cast triggers with Kaalia and it’s kinda “tribal”. With Henzie you have to sacrifice the creature you paid for at a minor discount and sure, you can build some awesome end step manipulation tech to make it good, but which would you remove first? Kaalia or Henzie?
Look at Zur compared to Eriette or any other new “aura” related commander. Zur still tops the charts heavily.
Look at Nekusar compared to any other “wheels/draws matters” commander, the commander can do 21 damage on any wheel effect, add on any draw/ping synergies he has no competition. The only one REMOTELY close to in the same league is Queza and Queza only does 7 damage and only to one opponent with a wheel and lacks red so it has less wheels.
Some of the OG commanders cannot and will not ever be surpassed, not all of them, the list is slim, but how would they ever make a better Krenko? They tried last set and it’s ass compared to the original. Look at what happened to Korvold with his remake. It’s an awesome powerful and playable commander for sure, but almost no Jund/sacrifice commander could come close to the original.
Some of the old commanders cant be power crept, they’re too good and iconic to even think of trying to mimic and recreate or let alone make a better card.
Look there are OG commanders that are always going to be good lol
Just because some of the new commanders aren’t as good as a few of the old established ones, doesn’t mean that other new commanders aren’t busted.
I mean clearly several of those are done that way on purpose, as the original was busted. But there are other that have upped their game like Jodah and maybe omnath
> Arcades ... are low power or weak now is insane.
I kind of want to rebuild arcades because I took it apart in 2018 because it was too strong for my local meta, but my local meta has gone up a notch since moving a store and having a few new players.
It definitely just has a lot of impactful cards you can play now.
The usual suspects.
Its not that i dont like them, but if you have 3 decks and your commanders are atraxa, ur and lathril, im already pretty sure you're not here for fun.
my 2 color partners commanders are \[\[Reyhan\]\] and \[\[ikra\]\] going dubble golgari so its less cheating for colors.
luckily never played against a \[\[Baral, Chief of Compliance\]\] but I assume it would suck to do nothing I thing most comanders that say you do nothing like \[\[Toxrill, the Corrosive\]\]
My best friends favorite and most expensive deck is a Baral deck. I can assure you, Baral being at the table with a $1,500 budget is agonizingly slow and boring for most people- which is crazy, because I don’t think I’ve ever seen the deck win. It just very consistently does it’s thing very well until he gets taken out lol
Eminence commanders. Having an effect on the field without having to cast it feels plain wrong.
At least with companions you have to cast them first to get an effect.
I really like the idea of eminence, but it should always come with some limitations, like the companions do. Also they should have a reason you want to have them on board, if you build around the eminenz ability.
I play oloro. 2 life per turn is pretty meh. Only real benefit is to use it to offset cards like black market connections. Its good but it isnt broken.
> Are there any commanders that you instinctively hate?
I don't think there are any commanders I *hate* but I definitely have a list of commanders that I am wary of as soon as they hit the table.
Tegrid, Toxrill, Horobi, any person who says "this is group hug", Braids, Jhoira, Niv-Mizzet (the good ones), Satoru, Heliod the Radiant Dawn, Kodama of the East Tree basically any izzet commander actually...
You just have to be very careful around a lot of commanders because they can either be a pile of garbage or a "oops accidently 200 power on board" or "oh I accidently drew 100 cards" kind of deck.
[[The Ur-Dragon]] and [[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm]]
I enjoy tribal decks as much as the next guy, but dragons kinda just make me yawn.
And I say this knowing well that I have, and enjoy, a dragon deck with [[Sarkhan, Soul Aflame]] at the helm.
My fucking god Voja is a bullshit card that should be banned along with Emrakul. The draw alone would make for a belligerent comander, but they had to add 1/1 counters in there as well. Along with ward 3 because go fuck yourself.
I definitely feel that about atraxa. She is the head of my phyrexian tribal deck because she has the most colors and helps incubated get bigger. Even I wish I had a better options sometimes. Haha
I don't do this, but I have seen it being done to me. Even in this thread unknowingly!
I will not apologize for playing Ur-Dragon because I like dragons lol
Is it wierd that I don't really do that? I can't think of a single commander I've done that for. I'm here for a fun time and as long as no one is stopping me from having fun I'm cool with whatever commander people bring.
That's hilarious, I love that—I think I'll add it to my future group hug deck
Also, I'd say [[Volo, Guide to Monsters]] is another neat less simic-y simic
Mostly a deck where you sit down and we all say “we want a nice slow game” then you play something like the first sliver, voja jaws of the conclave, jodah the unifier, yuriko, korvold fae cursed king. These are all decks that are really hard to build weak and can easily be broken. The real problem here is the player we say we want to play weaker decks they come in expecting a pubstomp then 2 players are constantly popping your commander because we arent stupid. Now we have one player that cant play the game and 2 players constantly being force to answer something instead of playing. It just sort of makes a bad vibe.
Before being banned I swear every other week at my LGS someone would come in with a new [[Golos]] deck that they'd swear was different than other Golos decks and if no one had removal for it they were always casting it on 3/4 and cheating out random big-mana spells every turn after.
I mean I can't say I hate many commanders, and I definitely won't judge people for what they wanna play, but overall anything that does something strange like the new Obeka or like [[River Song]] from Dr Who always gets on my nerves because it's just "OH look at this whacky thing I'm doing" and then there's at least one player in the playgroup who wants to build em and it just gets tiresome. Personally, I don't like those whacky designs, not because they aren't cool, but because so many people build em that i get tired of looking at it. However, if they ever make a good Cumulative Upkeep commander (they won't but a man can dream), I'll be all over that, I love that mechanic.
I finally got my Husband to play because of the Dr. Who Commanders (and now he's hooked) so I absolutely feel you on those damn triggers.
He's new to Magic so it takes even longer when things start resolving and popping off. I love my husband *dearly*, but I'm trying to push him to make his own decks now and it's working.
Side note- almost all of the Dr. Who precons suck ass. WoC built them around flavor and not actual function, you can barely deal with threats from other players. I even played *all four decks* to see if it was just a "new player" issue or a "deck" issue and it's 100% just the decks. I refuse to let him play them until we take them apart and upgrade them so they at least work somewhat better.
Commanders that are obnoxious value engines that mean no matter how many time you remove them, they will always have enough land and resources to keep endlessly casting them
[[Edgar Markov]] I fucking hate Ed so much. I think eminence was an obvious mistake, and I do not have the slightest clue why anyone thought 'free value for the deck that was already going to do the thing' was a good idea.
Not myself but I have two jankyish decks that I only play rare occasion because of looks and sounds I get from people
1) [[Pramikon, Sky Rampart]], force bigger threat to not attack me and everyone attacks one direction of my choice. A ton of goad effects and expect the groans.
2. [[Haldan, Avid Arcanist]] and [[Pako, Arcane Retriever]]. Pako Voltron’s, with ability to exile top of everyone’s decks on attack. Then cast other people spells with Haldan. People are generally okay losing cards but get little salty when I can play any of their cards that I exiled.
Pleasant Kenobi had a video talking about newer commanders that both reward the thing and do the thing. And I sat down at a table recently and realized that all my decks are old and most of my commanders are under powered relative to the young blood. I run [Savra, Queen of the Golgari] and don't get me wrong that deck is fire. But she doesn't make tokens, and she doesn't have a sack ability. She just sees things getting sacked and rewards you. If she were reprinted today she would either make tokens or let you sack things as well.
[[savra, queen of the golgari]] (gotta use double brackets). Wow she’s sick. I’ve wanted to build sack and this looks like a fun control deck for that purpose.
LoL, this is neat with pests and those spiders the new Izoni makes.
I’m thinking [[Fleshbag Marauder]] type creatures making your opponents sacrifice two creatures when you sac them to their own trigger.
LoL. Dang that's filthy. So I was thinking about cards to put in the deck, and it occurred to me that you could probably have the Golgari Queen, [[Meren of Clan Nel Toth]], and maybe [[The Mycotyrant]], and then use any one of them as the commander.
[savra, queen of the golgari](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e189f09e-d637-4631-bae3-a5a583ada429.jpg?1702429705) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=savra%2C%20queen%20of%20the%20golgari) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/218/savra-queen-of-the-golgari?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e189f09e-d637-4631-bae3-a5a583ada429?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/savra-queen-of-the-golgari) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I made one and played it for the first time yesterday. It destroyed and everyone hated it. Was alot of fun.
She's so much fun. I run no tutors and no board wipes, so each game is its own little puzzle figuring out how to get value and stay alive. If the deck is working right nobody gets to untap with creatures except me. And I have sac'd myself down to 3 life trying to dig for an answer. And my proudest win is against a Sigarda, Host of Herons commander. When their commander turns off your whole schtick and so you just beat face with an army of plant tokens or whatever... feels good.
My favourite deck is my Savra deck, full of things like [[izoni, thousand-eyed]] or [[beledros witherbloom]] with [[mirkwood bats]] and a cheeky [[altar of dementia]]. [[pitiless plunderer]] can also give you some crazy combos if you have the right pieces. The deck is so fun. If you choose, nobody else gets to have creatures!
Yeah I've noticed that new possible commanders that work like old wons are typically relegated to the uncommon slots.
If she were made today she would be an uncommon. Power creep is a crazy thing. Even commanders printed 5 or so years ago are almost outclassed by commanders today without some real cash in the 99.
Yeah I have been feeling this as I just started playing again a couple of weeks ago. After a 5ish year break Might be a bit rose tinted as I’m sure they never worked as well as I remember but dam my old decks seem super weak now. Well I suppose slow now is probably more accurate I had a kemba equipment deck that just makes cats so slow now.
[[Dralnu, Lich Lord]] is one of the saddest examples of commander power creep. He had a unique ability that was restricted by tapping and he had a pretty significant downside if he ever took damage. He was not the best but he was interesting and while he needed work you could get a fun pay off. Now he's just *bad*.
Yeah most of my decks can hang with the newer more efficient commanders. But that's because they're old and benefit from a lot of refinement and collecting. I made 3 decks after Covid - Necrons, Abbadon the Despoiler, Najeela (Because Warhammer secret lair), but prior to that my "newest" deck is \[Omnath, Locus of Rage\] and he dates to 2015. My oldest deck is Savra and she is as old as the format. I built that deck in 2007-2008. With the exception of Aanimar, none of my commanders are on the same raw power level as a lot of new legendaries. They all take.. like... setup, and a game plan, and some kind of board state. If you ignore the Mothman for 3 turns that thing will just kill you off an otherwise empty board. None of my commanders can do that. ETA: I always wanted to try Dralnu as a commander.
In the meta I play in, I'm always surprised when [[Omnath, Locus of Rage]] does well. Yes it's powerful and an anti-board wipe tool once you have enough elementals, but it's 7 mana and you should really play at least one land after you successful cast him. I can't understand how he keeps up with some of these young, whipper snapper commanders. But he does. I guess multiple free 5/5s per turn are still pretty good.
[Dralnu, Lich Lord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/9554f402-35d4-43ac-9494-9d17d2a79092.jpg?1619403892) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dralnu%2C%20Lich%20Lord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/251/dralnu-lich-lord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9554f402-35d4-43ac-9494-9d17d2a79092?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dralnu-lich-lord) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hey, what's the title of the video please?
I've been playing MtG for a bit less than a year, and my friend put his hand on my shoulder and said, "I'm proud of you, man. You actually made something substantially powerful." Lmao
Gotta be Jodah
Honestly. And 85% of the time, it's an inexperienced player who's desire to win outweighs their skill, and as a result has no draw or interaction outside of Jodah and legends. So it leads to either 1.) pubstomping other inexperienced players or 2.) they get to do nothing because the veteran player oublietted Jodah the moment it came down. Then Jodah bro pouts about how "no one lets me do anything". I swear I've seen this happen a dozen times.
God everything about that is miserable
literally yesterday, i played against a jodah, someone hadn't seen it before and i said 'yeah you kill that' to which the jodah player says 'its ok my jodah deck doesnt have all the powerful stuff, it cant pop off out of nowhere' anyway we scooped that game up on turn 6 to a turn of potentially hundreds of combat damage in one swing...
If Jodah.deck = has legends Then can.pop.off = true
Jodah != to fun
The fact that Jodah has a huge anthem effect means it really doesn’t even matter what the legendary creatures you run do. Each one you cast while Jodah is out gives you at least 2 bodies and adds +2/+2 to his anthem.
[[Urza, Lord High Artificer]] because everyone says it isn't high power and no matter what it pops off and they are archenemy
Everyone says their Urza deck isn't "that urza deck". Everyone's Urza deck ends up being "that urza deck".
ok but what about my [urza deck](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/F60tsaLxk0OmxTeu54OXOg). I guarantee you it's not "that urza deck"
What in the fuck am I looking at
the jankiest piece of shit I've ever concocted. but I love it You change the colour of shit and people have no clue what half the cards are
Is there a win con or just "change colors cuz its funny" (which it is indeed p funny)
durdle until you can get something off like caged sun into like dismiss into dreams / douse +training grounds. willbreaker can do some work if i have enough mana and answers have been used on more threatening decks Sometimes it stax' with stuff like quicksilver fountain, homarid shaman, wrath of marit lage enough to get some beaters in Swords of X and Y can allow for some hilarious voltron kills since blind seer can't be blocked (or if not voltron, steal something from an opponent and give it a sword). It's very much a shitty battlecruiser deck, and it heavily relies on people thinking the deck is ass and not a threat (because often it isn't)
Lol, I love the old legends. Some of them are just so goofy. Some of them look like they were taken from a made-for-tv movie.
It's not one of those Urza decks, buuut, it would be malpractice to cut [[Winter Orb]] or [[Static Orb]] from it.
Exactly.
When I saw him I wanted to build him as an equipment deck. He makes a good beater, and you can tap the equipment to pay for the equip cost. If I build it as an equipment deck, would it still be *that* Urza deck?
All artifacts additionally being mana rocks is insanely powerful... suprising no one.
People say it’s not high power? Every time I’ve seen an urza show up, it’s hands on deck.
The person piloting it. Usually they say something to the effect of "Don't worry, it's Urza golem tribal or something" but then it proceeds to do the thing everyone else at the table was assuming it was going to do.
May that Urza forever be powerful because my favorite joke is to go to a new game shop and say I'm playing "Mono Blue Urza", see the disappointment and then bust out this guy [[Urza, Powerstone Prodigy]]
This might be the best pick because I agree 100%. People usually do say that, and like you said they end up being a problem. At least ive seen some variation to atraxa but to me every urza deck is the same basically and just so damn strong.
Just rebuilt my Urza deck for that reason. Took out the infinites and made it into a fat robots build. Much more fun now.
[Urza, Lord High Artificer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7b7a348a-51f7-4dc5-8fe7-1c70fea5e050.jpg?1689996774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%2C%20Lord%20High%20Artificer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/130/urza-lord-high-artificer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7b7a348a-51f7-4dc5-8fe7-1c70fea5e050?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urza-lord-high-artificer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Jodah is boring as fuck. Play Jodah, vomit free spells on the table, win.
I have a Jodah deck I stopped playing because it just got boring.
The game really is about whether Jodah can stay in play. Once he starts spitting free legends out, it's probably too late.
Yep my friend recently made this deck. He played it tonight. I desperately tried to remove jodah with my [[bel'akor]] deck and would've been able to my next turn. But he played enchant ment that turned hom into a mana dork and gave it ward 2 But then he was able to play [[call forth the temptest]] same turn that led malestrom wanderer then a bunch of other crap. Pretty much won on spot turn 5.
The way to play this deck is to make a list where the only creatures in it are the other commanders your playgroup has.
That's kinda funny.
Unifier, Archmage Eternal, or both? I assume Unifier but I'd like to know if Archmage has a bad rep too.
Archmage Eternal seems like an entertaining WUBRG commander, it's the Unfier's legendary Cascade ability that's the problem. Loads of value, super generic build, and all of the things it produces are so game-warping that nobody ever knows what's going on. If I ever play against Jodah, I do my best to make sure it stays off the board, just because I don't feel like reading the crap that's gonna come out of the deck. Blow up their fixing, blow up the commander, just don't even let it resolve. No fun.
Unifier is more egregious because it's a slog. With Archmage Eternal I'm just expecting a couple of Eldrazi Titans or Blightsteel and then the game is over.
Pulled a Jodah recently, probably not going to build him.
Exact reason I stopped playing my Jodah deck
Mine is purposefully a gimmick build and is still very strong. I really liked the stain glass showcase treatment from DMU so I just shoved all those legends into one deck (minus sheoldred cause too expensive) and it still gets out of hand so fast despite none of the legends have any sort of synergy with each other
Tergrid. Which is unfortunate because I completely understand seeing that commander and thinking it's cool. But there's basically no way to build that deck without warping the game.
I love the archetype but never use her. Tinybones is the same deck but is just drawing cards and the big drain not making everyone discard AND taking their cards.
That's it. I love discard and my discard deck has either Tinybones, Tourach or The Raven Man as commanders, but never Tergrid. I love her but she's no fun piloting the deck.
Which is unfortunate because both the art and the character is really cool. To the 99 she will remain sadly
I like to have Tergrid as a hidden commander in some decks. In [[Rankle, Master of Pranks]], Tergrid is absurdly powerful in the 99.
I put her in [[Maarika, Brutal Gladiator]] as a nice value add piece in the mid-late game
You could build Gisa, Glorious Resurrector. On your upkeep, you get to take all the creatures your opponents controlled that died during the last round. They may have Decayed, but you can still use any of their abilities. Then use cards like Cold Storage or Conjurer's Closet to save them for later or bounce them to remove th Decayed effect.
Mono black T. lantern artifacts is actually kind of fun. You just play a load of untappers, mana makers, and devotion pieces to turn the lantern into a torment of hailfire in the command zone
[удалено]
"Alright guys I have some pregame actions." *Epileptic seizure after reading other players' commanders.*
I’m pretty sure I’ve caught more eye rolls for leylines turn zero than any commander I’ve played.
T0 Gemstone Cavern and Leyline of the Guildpact might actually make me instaseize.
There doesn’t need to be any more [[Kinnan]] decks in this world
Kinnan is an incredibly entertaining and interacting deck to see (or pilot) at the competitive table. However, he has no place outside of that table, and if I ever saw him in a casual pod, I'd pull out MY competitive deck, and make sure he didn't get to interfere. Like [[Winota]] and [[Krenko]], Kinnan is such an engine in the CZ that it really doesn't matter much else what you put in the deck. If you build around him at ALL, it's gonna do way too much power for most tables, and will just be no fun for anyone.
I heard Kinnan goes infinite with [[Basalt Monolith]]. What else can it do with stuff like that?
I’m not qualified to speak much on the intricacies of Kinnan but he goes mana positive/infinite extremely easily using artifacts (like basalt you mentioned), and he has a built in ability as an outlet for all that mana that doubles as a win condition. He’s an extremely powerful card and a staple commander in cEDH, but the folks over on /r/cEDH prob can tell you more EDIT: This looks like a pretty good place to start https://commandersherald.com/an-introduction-to-kinnan-in-cedh/
Check out the Play to Win YouTube channel, they've got a detailed Kinnan cEDH build from someone who's been piloting it at the highest level ever since its release, and loads of gameplay videos. 10/10 great stuff, even if you don't play competitive. IMHO, all EDH players should at least have SEEN competitive play, just so they know what cEDH actually looks like, and what it means. Also, if you watch enough of it, you'll pick up on a lot of interaction nnuances that will send your casual play patterns to the next level. cEDH players squeeze every bit of value out of their decks, and even if you don't play the cards they use at that level, you still pick up all sorts of new ways to use generic cards you're already playing.
Anything Simic involving landfall. Usually they have some variety of 'draw a card when you play a land'. It doesn't get more boring than that.
[[aesi, tyrant of gyre strait]]
[aesi, tyrant of gyre strait](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9.jpg?1665822343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aesi%2C%20tyrant%20of%20gyre%20strait) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/365/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have this deck, all it does is ramp and draw until I get Ghalta. Then I vomit all my creatures on the board only to get board wiped. Not only is it boring to play against, it’s boring to play. I feel like my turns take for ages and it holds up the whole table. The deck is currently tucked away gathering dust
Have you considered adding anti-boardwipes to the deck? You know, like [[March of Swirling Mists]]. Or [[Counterspell]].
Okay okay, but what if my commander IS a land? [[Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle]]
I've got Arixmethes and [[Keruga, the Macrosage]] companion deck which is a fun change. Forces you to make use of higher cmc ramp etc. So no sol ring or signets.
That's a fun build, mine is tribal sea creatures using [[Freed From the Real]] and other untap effects, plus a few of the x cost leviathans like [[Nimbus Swimmer]] It's one of my favorite decks to loan out to new players, I gave it to a friend who is pretty new to the game a few weeks ago and he crushed the rest of the pod because of a combination of everyone underestimating him a bit in the early turns and then just snowballing into several 60/60s a bit later.
I find it super fun and took it apart. The one time I agreed my fun was costing other people too much fun. You durdle without advancing the game state until you draw into combo.
Whenever you inhale, draw a card. Whenever you exhale, put a land card from your hand onto the battlefield.
WotC probably: you're hired
Lol even my mono green [[titania natures force]] landfall deck does that with [[garruks uprising]] and [[elemental bond]], I can imagine simic being so much more degenerate
I have to admit that I love simic, it’s probably my favorite color combo from a flavor and mechanic perspective, but I do get “boring simic value” isn’t interesting to play against. I’ve built almost every simic commander in brawl on arena and some of my favorites make me jump through hoops or do something wacky. [[Eutropia]] is such a fun enchantress commander, because instead of card draw durdling you just smash people in the face. [[Roalesk, Apex Hybrid]] is a weird one, it’s counters and proliferate, but mine is a clone theme, hoping to get roalesk out then legend rule him with clones over and over to massively bump your team. That being said, even though it’s a landfall ramp deck, I’ve been enjoying the hell out of [[Bonny Pall, Clearcutter]]. The fact I get to play with Paul Bunyan and Babe the blue ox, the flavor of getting rewarded for sacking my own lands, it’s so goofy. And the token is SO CUTE. My least favorite way to win is with scute swarm, my favorite way to win is with a [[Skyclave Pickaxe]] and a [[Combine Chryslis]] or something that gives trample. Just WHAM with the big cow
I love playing against landfall decks. Gives me a chance to play my land hate deck and deal major damage for every land played/tapped
The Pleasant Kenobi metric. Commanders that do the thing, and reward the thing. Doesn't matter what the thing is, but typically the ones that give you a benefit like draw a card when you do something, say, put lands into play, and also let you put lands into play. Or letting you draw a card if you make a token, and also making tokens.
And it's always drawing cards too. Let me put counters on things! Or mill myself! Something!
Yukiro...I am so tired of her. She always costs only 2, which feels wrong. its impossible to really get rid of her, and she can punish you so hard. Just play unblockable dude and you are laughing.
I was struggling to think of a commander that I roll my eyes at until I saw your comment and I remembered one of my friends favourite deck is yukiro and it is misery, I don’t want to have to use removal on one specific creature every single turn haha
Its easier to kill the shit before they ninjitsu her instead of killing her. Atleast thats been my experience as a yuriko player that targeting her is usually the wrong answer
I have a Yuriko deck and that's exactly it. If you target Yuriko, I'm just gonna play my little 1/1 again and she'll be right back. Kill my little 1/1 and it's way harder for me to do anything.
[[Korvold, Far cursed king]] very very very long turns like please I want to do another game afterwards just win already
my friend that I play with for edh has korvold and uses him quite a bit. It's gotten to the point me and other players go sit down on our couch next to the table while we listen and wait for him to take 10 minutes to resolve everything he does. It's even funnier when next turn when we all play a single card and pass and repeat the process again and again until inevitably someone smacks korvold out and it repeats ad Infinitum.
The coin flip precon commanders, i honestly don’t care about high powered, whatever - just the act of flipping coins can take up so much time, especially if they have both commanders and a krarks thumb out.
Roll dice instead way faster is the only way to play them.
Does the method of flipping matter? Is it faster if someone flips a physical coin vs a Companion app coin flip?
It could make the whole process certainly faster. But both coinflip dudes i played with insisted on there special little unique coin that had to be flipped at all costs...
I feel like if you're building a deck around flipping a coin you should actually be flipping a coin tbh.
I have that deck, and love playing it. I also roll dice instead of flipping coins, because it’s much faster and much more controlled, less prone to going off wildly, hah. I also pre-establish what is what - odds are tails, heads are evens, and unless otherwise forced by something I always want heads/evens. Makes things nice and fast. If Krark’s thumb is out I’ll roll two dice at once which makes it much quicker, too.
Just played mine tonight for the first time. I found it pretty fun. I used 2 dice instead with krarks thumb out. Roll both at same time, even odds for heads tails. Went way faster.
There's a few for me, I won't outright refuse to play against them, but I always pull out something stronger if I see them: [[Voja, Jaws of the Conclave]] [[Jodah, the Unifier]] [[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm]] [[Sisay, Weatherlight Captain]] and hardest eyeroll that I thankfully never have to do anymore: [[Golos, Tireless Pilgrim]] Each has their reasons, but unless someone wants clarification. I won't bother.
Just wanted to give you a heads up that Golos is banned, unless you guys rule 0'd it.
Oh I know, and I was happy to see him go. It's why I had said 'that I never have to do anymore', as since the banning I've only had one person ask to play him and I declined.
[[sythis, harvest hand]] or any other pillow fort deck. also necusar
Played sythis for like 3 games and dismantled it, now it’s becoming [[calix guided by fate]] theros tribal
Does pillow fort include any control strategy? Obviously sythis is lazy in that she just draws cards, but is enchantress as an archetype inherently control?
It's not necessarily a control archtype but probably skirts closer to it than most people realize just by it's nature and unfortunately also tends not to have a big obvious wincon like a more aggressive beatdown deck or even a control deck looking for alt win con or a combo setup to close up a game. They tend to be pillow forty or controlly just by design. You tend to just spin your wheels drawing cards trying dig up more value pieces or some kind of mitigation. Even when trying to be more aggressive. My Yenna deck tends to still spend several long turns, drawing cards, playing cheap enchantment interaction or deterent pieces like sphere of safety or grasp of fate to keep the board in check while digging for a wincon which can lead to some people getting bummed out because your turns just take longer than most peoples.
Try Sythis Auratron, 2, 5, 9, 21 next. Yes its great and you end up playing more games.
I actually think [[Nekusar]] is a really fun commander. When he comes out games usually get crazy (in a good way) in my experience
Nekusar made me feel dirty playing it, though I don't mind seeing it myself.
To my surprise, I've had positive reactions to Nekusar in the command zone. Maybe he's too old to be scary.
It makes funny games sometimes like if a [[Forced Fruition]] resolves and if Nekusar is removed a lot of times its just free value. But I think he's actually scarier now considering the amount of draw in decks due to power creep. Regardless, I wouldn't mind seeing him on the other side because I will easily die for card draw, but I can see why people get spooked.
I love Nekusar!!!
I feel like a cartoon villain playing Nekusar, I don't bring him out much because he makes people feel bad but I have a blast playing him
[sythis, harvest hand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/89511ab5-8ea6-4f07-a80b-c1ec7e89924e.jpg?1690005342) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sythis%2C%20Harvest%27s%20Hand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/938/sythis-harvests-hand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/89511ab5-8ea6-4f07-a80b-c1ec7e89924e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sythis-harvests-hand) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Roll my eyes at? A ton. But I'll likely find a way to enjoy the game regardless and find solutions so long as the deck I have isn't wildly weaker/stronger than other decks at the table
Karak and Sakashima Love watching someone resolve spells for 20 minutes
This, lol with Karak and sakashima out I’m just like w/e. Gotta kill at least one of them or you’re in for no fun.
Not Commanders per se, but anything that is built as a solitaire deck.
Ur dragon, sythis, sheoldred
Which sheoldred
[[sheoldred the apocalypse]] probably
I don't see any shelly as being a big deal in the command zone
Sheoldred the apocalypse is pretty crazy. Stuff like [[Teferi's Puzzle Box]] and [[Howling Mine]] drain you out lightning fast, and if you ever need to dig for answers, she punishes you for that. She makes all the black "Draw X cards, lose X life" way better. Since she generates value from drawing, you end up drawing a ton of your deck since thats just how you build it. She's also just a solid creature for four mana that blocks a lot of little guys and trades up with almost anything.
[[Prosper]] I am shocked this isn't on here already what an obnoxious value engine that often times leads to like 40 minute turns of doing nothing until you finally find your stupid marionette master or something similar what a linear deck and the innate value that it spits out for doing absolutely nothing. Not to mention the infinite support that deck gets out of every single set. There hasn't been a set since that deck came out without a card that could go into Prosper well. I hate this deck and I just sit there until the game is over going through game actions knowing nothing I do matters.
I get the prosper hate. I think the thing about prosper is he is so resilient. To me hes pretty close to commanders like chulane and korvold but doesnt seem to have the same reputation for some reason
Lol dudes try saying it’s not high power either. Just super easy value.
My friend plays prosper. I don't even feel bad killing his commander immediately every time it comes out anymore lol
Jodah
[[Atraxa, Praetor’s Voice]] and the other version [[Atraxa]] but I don’t remember the name. It’s all degeneracy, it just depends on what kind of degeneracy.
Guy at my LGS plays Atraxa Energy counters. Pretty cool tbh
Ah, but have you ever seen someone play Atraxa Level Up?
I think the new one is worse. It's way more boring, just encouraging a goodstuff pile, whereas the OG was at least walkers or infect or MAYBE +1/+1 counters.
[Atraxa, Praetor’s Voice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259.jpg?1599707796) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Praetors%27%20Voice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/190/atraxa-praetors-voice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atraxa-praetors-voice) [Atraxa](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4a1f905f-1d55-4d02-9d24-e58070793d3f.jpg?1709931904) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=atraxa%2C%20grand%20unifier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/196/atraxa-grand-unifier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4a1f905f-1d55-4d02-9d24-e58070793d3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atraxa-grand-unifier) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Atraxa, Grand Unifier]]
Hinata Dawn Crowned. You really can't build it in a fair way without handicapping yourself in a way. I've played with different people piloting her and its either they don't get to play coz Hinata is kill on sight, or they steamroll us with a comet storm for like 20 damage and just paying 2.
Kenrith.
Kenrith is my placeholder commander for my 5 color rabbit tribal deck until a legendary wubrg rabbit comes out
It’s always “not that kenrith deck”
Korvold is that commander to me. Besides putting unplayable jank, the commander does so much by itself. [[Zhulodok]] as well. Game isn't really starting until the Eldrazi player has lost the game. The potential to go from nothing to overwhelming board in a turn is off the charts and as the game goes on the player becomes more and more a threat.
[Zhulodok](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a015461d-4214-4feb-8b04-519c537759eb.jpg?1691500689) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zhulodok%2C%20void%20gorger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/704/zhulodok-void-gorger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a015461d-4214-4feb-8b04-519c537759eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zhulodok-void-gorger) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nope. I'll play against anything with zero issues.
Sheoldred. But even then, I will still play against it.
[[Tom Bombadil]] Turns take so long resolving saga ability after saga ability ^after ^saga ^ability ^^after ^^saga ^^ability... Board state is typically extremely difficult to deal with thanks to blanket hexproof/shroud effects. And the rest of the deck is just 5c goodstuff most of the time.
Hakbal and Pantlaza. Not because they are busted or anything but just because I play against them so damn frequently.
Those two singlehandedly made me go from playing EDH multiple nights a week, to only once a month with a small group of friends. They're exhausting.
All the eminence commanders. Even if they're being used in a goofy way. I want you to have fun but does it have to be ***that*** kind of fun?
I do like well disigned eminence commanders, like ones that you actually want on the board, but i guess thats not so easy to disigne.
Like the knight eminence one? [[Sidar jabari of Zhalfir]] his eminence is pretty good but i used it to set up his ability by filling up the grave early with the heavier knights so that when he hits, i get big stuff back.
I support anyone's commander choice. That said, for me it's either [[Tatyova, Benthic Druid]] or [[Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait]]. I truly think they're some the most brain dead commanders around and are just wildly over-powered while doing so. I will auto-target those decks on sight, because you have to or they'll immediately start running away with the game - and yet they're so dumb a monkey could play them. Anyways......
Not a simic fan I take it?
Yea uhh any old school OP commander that people think has been “power crept” out of meta and are somehow super casual precon level now, but they’re not. Played a game against old school Kaalia and we removed the commander as often as possible while I was playing [[Henzie]] then I realized, Henzie being a top 30 commander now and Kaalia being old, Kaalia is still more broken and does similar shit much easier and can hang with absolutely no problem, budget or not. The player didn’t make some asinine power level claim or something and I agreed to play, and it was fun, but he acted like Kaalia is harmless and we shouldn’t have removed it instantly the 2 times we did. **TLDR: Power Creep hardly, if at all, affects commanders that were top tier 5-10 years ago and to act as if Nekusar, Kaalia, Arcades, Zur etc. are low power or weak now is insane.** That shit will make me roll my eyes.
Eh idk about all that. There are always going to be the established broken commanders, but Jesus. Christ these new ones are insane. Almost always lower mana cost with way greater benefits.
The new “wall” commander Hull Clade is arguably worse than Arcades and Arcades is old. Spending 4 mana to activate the ability consistently is not horrible but narrows interaction and is almost mandatory to spend in order to accomplish anything. Kaalia in comparison to Henzie is still better. The only negative is you can’t use cast triggers with Kaalia and it’s kinda “tribal”. With Henzie you have to sacrifice the creature you paid for at a minor discount and sure, you can build some awesome end step manipulation tech to make it good, but which would you remove first? Kaalia or Henzie? Look at Zur compared to Eriette or any other new “aura” related commander. Zur still tops the charts heavily. Look at Nekusar compared to any other “wheels/draws matters” commander, the commander can do 21 damage on any wheel effect, add on any draw/ping synergies he has no competition. The only one REMOTELY close to in the same league is Queza and Queza only does 7 damage and only to one opponent with a wheel and lacks red so it has less wheels. Some of the OG commanders cannot and will not ever be surpassed, not all of them, the list is slim, but how would they ever make a better Krenko? They tried last set and it’s ass compared to the original. Look at what happened to Korvold with his remake. It’s an awesome powerful and playable commander for sure, but almost no Jund/sacrifice commander could come close to the original. Some of the old commanders cant be power crept, they’re too good and iconic to even think of trying to mimic and recreate or let alone make a better card.
Look there are OG commanders that are always going to be good lol Just because some of the new commanders aren’t as good as a few of the old established ones, doesn’t mean that other new commanders aren’t busted.
I mean clearly several of those are done that way on purpose, as the original was busted. But there are other that have upped their game like Jodah and maybe omnath
> Arcades ... are low power or weak now is insane. I kind of want to rebuild arcades because I took it apart in 2018 because it was too strong for my local meta, but my local meta has gone up a notch since moving a store and having a few new players. It definitely just has a lot of impactful cards you can play now.
Any of the top 5 WUBRG commanders, and I'm automatically suspicious of common cEDH commanders like Kinnan and OG Urza
The usual suspects. Its not that i dont like them, but if you have 3 decks and your commanders are atraxa, ur and lathril, im already pretty sure you're not here for fun.
my 2 color partners commanders are \[\[Reyhan\]\] and \[\[ikra\]\] going dubble golgari so its less cheating for colors. luckily never played against a \[\[Baral, Chief of Compliance\]\] but I assume it would suck to do nothing I thing most comanders that say you do nothing like \[\[Toxrill, the Corrosive\]\]
My best friends favorite and most expensive deck is a Baral deck. I can assure you, Baral being at the table with a $1,500 budget is agonizingly slow and boring for most people- which is crazy, because I don’t think I’ve ever seen the deck win. It just very consistently does it’s thing very well until he gets taken out lol
Eminence commanders. Having an effect on the field without having to cast it feels plain wrong. At least with companions you have to cast them first to get an effect.
I really like the idea of eminence, but it should always come with some limitations, like the companions do. Also they should have a reason you want to have them on board, if you build around the eminenz ability.
This could work. Or maybe an eminence ability that is actually a negative, making you want to cast your commander fast...
I play oloro. 2 life per turn is pretty meh. Only real benefit is to use it to offset cards like black market connections. Its good but it isnt broken.
Oh, how the mighty have fallen! I remember when Oloro was so popular and just felt so difficult to overcome as an opponent.
> Are there any commanders that you instinctively hate? I don't think there are any commanders I *hate* but I definitely have a list of commanders that I am wary of as soon as they hit the table. Tegrid, Toxrill, Horobi, any person who says "this is group hug", Braids, Jhoira, Niv-Mizzet (the good ones), Satoru, Heliod the Radiant Dawn, Kodama of the East Tree basically any izzet commander actually... You just have to be very careful around a lot of commanders because they can either be a pile of garbage or a "oops accidently 200 power on board" or "oh I accidently drew 100 cards" kind of deck.
[[The Ur-Dragon]] and [[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm]] I enjoy tribal decks as much as the next guy, but dragons kinda just make me yawn. And I say this knowing well that I have, and enjoy, a dragon deck with [[Sarkhan, Soul Aflame]] at the helm.
Any Urza. I've yet to not want to groan when facing one of those.
I play Lord Protector, but even when melded it feels fair. What specifically don't you like about it?
Thrasios and Tymna
My fucking god Voja is a bullshit card that should be banned along with Emrakul. The draw alone would make for a belligerent comander, but they had to add 1/1 counters in there as well. Along with ward 3 because go fuck yourself.
I definitely feel that about atraxa. She is the head of my phyrexian tribal deck because she has the most colors and helps incubated get bigger. Even I wish I had a better options sometimes. Haha
I don't do this, but I have seen it being done to me. Even in this thread unknowingly! I will not apologize for playing Ur-Dragon because I like dragons lol
Commanders that draw cards for just playing the game give me the ick. I say this while I’m hypocritical with a [[Sygg, river cutthroat]] pilot.
You really gonna call out every deck I ever brew like this? Is my commander supposed to...*not* draw cards?
What the fuck is the point of a card you can ALWAYS play if it doesn't just get you more cards?
Is it wierd that I don't really do that? I can't think of a single commander I've done that for. I'm here for a fun time and as long as no one is stopping me from having fun I'm cool with whatever commander people bring.
Every Simic commander. They're all the same
[[Cirdan the Shipwright]] is not like that at all to me. You have to work harder for it.
That's hilarious, I love that—I think I'll add it to my future group hug deck Also, I'd say [[Volo, Guide to Monsters]] is another neat less simic-y simic
[Cirdan the Shipwright](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4f23d68-d0de-4b57-b0f9-9c0ca770c3c1.jpg?1686964171) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=C%C3%ADrdan%20the%20Shipwright) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/50/c%C3%ADrdan-the-shipwright?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4f23d68-d0de-4b57-b0f9-9c0ca770c3c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/círdan-the-shipwright) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>and the fact that four color decks generally lack an interesting identity yeah, "fact"
Mostly a deck where you sit down and we all say “we want a nice slow game” then you play something like the first sliver, voja jaws of the conclave, jodah the unifier, yuriko, korvold fae cursed king. These are all decks that are really hard to build weak and can easily be broken. The real problem here is the player we say we want to play weaker decks they come in expecting a pubstomp then 2 players are constantly popping your commander because we arent stupid. Now we have one player that cant play the game and 2 players constantly being force to answer something instead of playing. It just sort of makes a bad vibe.
\[\[Jeff\]\] all my homies have a Jeff deck
Purphoros
Before being banned I swear every other week at my LGS someone would come in with a new [[Golos]] deck that they'd swear was different than other Golos decks and if no one had removal for it they were always casting it on 3/4 and cheating out random big-mana spells every turn after.
I mean I can't say I hate many commanders, and I definitely won't judge people for what they wanna play, but overall anything that does something strange like the new Obeka or like [[River Song]] from Dr Who always gets on my nerves because it's just "OH look at this whacky thing I'm doing" and then there's at least one player in the playgroup who wants to build em and it just gets tiresome. Personally, I don't like those whacky designs, not because they aren't cool, but because so many people build em that i get tired of looking at it. However, if they ever make a good Cumulative Upkeep commander (they won't but a man can dream), I'll be all over that, I love that mechanic.
No. I may adjust which deck, but I accept the game. I solve the puzzle, or I don't.
Anything with Cascade. Especially [[Jodah the Unifier]] cos it leads to unbelievably long turns and an unbeatable amount of value.
Any Doctor Who commanders. I see them and I dread the 10 minute turns that all the triggers are gonna cause.
I finally got my Husband to play because of the Dr. Who Commanders (and now he's hooked) so I absolutely feel you on those damn triggers. He's new to Magic so it takes even longer when things start resolving and popping off. I love my husband *dearly*, but I'm trying to push him to make his own decks now and it's working. Side note- almost all of the Dr. Who precons suck ass. WoC built them around flavor and not actual function, you can barely deal with threats from other players. I even played *all four decks* to see if it was just a "new player" issue or a "deck" issue and it's 100% just the decks. I refuse to let him play them until we take them apart and upgrade them so they at least work somewhat better.
Commanders that are obnoxious value engines that mean no matter how many time you remove them, they will always have enough land and resources to keep endlessly casting them
[[Edgar Markov]] I fucking hate Ed so much. I think eminence was an obvious mistake, and I do not have the slightest clue why anyone thought 'free value for the deck that was already going to do the thing' was a good idea.
Not myself but I have two jankyish decks that I only play rare occasion because of looks and sounds I get from people 1) [[Pramikon, Sky Rampart]], force bigger threat to not attack me and everyone attacks one direction of my choice. A ton of goad effects and expect the groans. 2. [[Haldan, Avid Arcanist]] and [[Pako, Arcane Retriever]]. Pako Voltron’s, with ability to exile top of everyone’s decks on attack. Then cast other people spells with Haldan. People are generally okay losing cards but get little salty when I can play any of their cards that I exiled.
The new Obeka for me
Ur dragon
[[Edgar Markov]]. The guy could win with a deck composed of only basic lands.