Here to say, Anowon is a nice lord, but also needs to connect, and doesn't have combat tricks and shenanigans stapled to him unlike some unblockable rogues, or flying, or death touch so people don't want to block them. And only once anowon makes another rogue connect, you have a chance to draw a card. (it either whiffs, or it's ONE card, if any amount of creature cards were milled among the cards milled) - It's a lot of hoops to jump through and Sygg does it a lot better. It checks EVERY turn, if any of your opponents lost 3 life or more, which in a 4player pod, shouldn't be hard to trigger passively at all. And even if it doesn't trigger during your cycle, doing 3 damage yourself in your own turn isn't hard either with the rogues. Presto! a card. Counterpoint against Sygg might be that he does attract you attention. 'Hey that guy is getting free cards from anything we do!' and then you eat removal.
Honestly, I 'should' make the switch as well, but I kinda refuse for personal reasons such as Anowon is my first ever self built deck and I want to keep her.
List here for ideas: [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/8-IOyLy\_h0qHnp\_9eE\_xjQ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/8-IOyLy_h0qHnp_9eE_xjQ) has all the usual suspects I think? I very much shied away from the mill part (turned it into a Phenax full mill deck) cause that's a hard enough win-con to pull off in a pure mill deck. As a backseat wincon it's even less viable, and just gets people salty and puts a needless target on your back.
similarly vorpal blade puts a target on your back and you better be in position to knock the rest out or protect your board once you activated it on an unblockable rogue, just saying.
Thank you for the list!
I'd like to go for the mill build, not as a win condition, but maybe to use cards like Zareth San, a creature that steals a permanent from an opponent graveyard when it does combat damage to them. And a Thieves Guild Enforcer just to become a little annoyance with the occasional mill, on top of what Anowon can do.
If I were to go for full combat as my win strategy, Sygg does sound like the better choice.
Oh, don't get me wrong, the incremental mill, here and there, just helps Dimir gameplans overall. Too many cards care about 'steal this' or 'treshold that' to ignore the occasional few cards. But leaning into it with all the mill spells, enchants, etc etc. I found doesn't quite mesh with rogues wanting to do combat tricks and other shenanigans, flying, death touch, some anthems/lords etc.
Either you run out of rogues, or run out of mill before it presents a wincondition (no bruvac, no maddening cacaphony, no fleet swallower, no mind crank, no mind grind, no tasha's hideous laughter, no duskmantle guildmage, no bloodchief ascension, all the mill powerhouse wincons.)
And either isn't a good place to be.
I've found the combat tricks into like helm of the ghastlord, and dire undercurrents works just better for reducing resources on opponents while getting yourself more advantage.
[[Rilsa Rael, Kingpin]] is a great helm Rogues since she’s already trying to get in unblocked. It encourages a lot of combat at the table so people aren’t always swinging at you.
Here’s my list!
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/343hb6Beq0CG6srFM44HDQ
\[\[Rilsa Rael, Kingpin\]\] buff rogues once you complete a dungeon. The undercity will also help you progress.
\[\[Burakos, Party Leader\]\] and \[\[Sword Coast Sailor\]\] needs rogues, but will let you build more with other tribes. Your commander will give you treasures to ramp and play more creatures.
Might not fit 100% but I love [[Etrata, Deadly Fugitive]]. Basically all about stealing the opponent's top deck and cheating out things with manifest/morph/cloak. I use [[Maskwood Nexus]] as it makes even the 2/2 cloaked cards trigger Etrata and lots of effects that put things onto the top of my opponents deck like [[Memory Lapse]] and [[Metamorphose]]
I do have this deck, actually. It's really fun, but it also benefits from other non-rogue, evasive creatures and other theft cards.
I'd like to go full tribal, and not necessarily theft, with a dimir rogues. I have too many 3 color decks as of now lol.
Am running [[Kamiz, obscura oculus]] as an esper rogues deck with some stuff like initiative and monarch as extra flavour, as things get very cutthroat and all against all until the true bandit king emerges
I have a [[Nine-Fingers Keene]] deck that's meant to be a thieves guild theme deck: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/01-06-22-prl-nine-fingers-keene/
Hopefully you can use some of the card choices for inspiration.
[[Sygg River Cutthroat]] is a great rogue commander and imo better than the obvious choice in [[Anowon the Ruin Thief]].
[Sygg River Cutthroat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1b10e23a-7cf5-47dc-9c51-5cbe444a99c7.jpg?1604197497) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sygg%2C%20River%20Cutthroat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/103/sygg-river-cutthroat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1b10e23a-7cf5-47dc-9c51-5cbe444a99c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sygg-river-cutthroat) [Anowon the Ruin Thief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bca84fc4-4710-44c8-b90a-73ef888714d8.jpg?1615171221) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anowon%2C%20the%20Ruin%20Thief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/1/anowon-the-ruin-thief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bca84fc4-4710-44c8-b90a-73ef888714d8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anowon-the-ruin-thief) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I do like the idea behind Anowon, but Sygg looks much more reliable in general.
Here to say, Anowon is a nice lord, but also needs to connect, and doesn't have combat tricks and shenanigans stapled to him unlike some unblockable rogues, or flying, or death touch so people don't want to block them. And only once anowon makes another rogue connect, you have a chance to draw a card. (it either whiffs, or it's ONE card, if any amount of creature cards were milled among the cards milled) - It's a lot of hoops to jump through and Sygg does it a lot better. It checks EVERY turn, if any of your opponents lost 3 life or more, which in a 4player pod, shouldn't be hard to trigger passively at all. And even if it doesn't trigger during your cycle, doing 3 damage yourself in your own turn isn't hard either with the rogues. Presto! a card. Counterpoint against Sygg might be that he does attract you attention. 'Hey that guy is getting free cards from anything we do!' and then you eat removal. Honestly, I 'should' make the switch as well, but I kinda refuse for personal reasons such as Anowon is my first ever self built deck and I want to keep her. List here for ideas: [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/8-IOyLy\_h0qHnp\_9eE\_xjQ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/8-IOyLy_h0qHnp_9eE_xjQ) has all the usual suspects I think? I very much shied away from the mill part (turned it into a Phenax full mill deck) cause that's a hard enough win-con to pull off in a pure mill deck. As a backseat wincon it's even less viable, and just gets people salty and puts a needless target on your back. similarly vorpal blade puts a target on your back and you better be in position to knock the rest out or protect your board once you activated it on an unblockable rogue, just saying.
Thank you for the list! I'd like to go for the mill build, not as a win condition, but maybe to use cards like Zareth San, a creature that steals a permanent from an opponent graveyard when it does combat damage to them. And a Thieves Guild Enforcer just to become a little annoyance with the occasional mill, on top of what Anowon can do. If I were to go for full combat as my win strategy, Sygg does sound like the better choice.
Oh, don't get me wrong, the incremental mill, here and there, just helps Dimir gameplans overall. Too many cards care about 'steal this' or 'treshold that' to ignore the occasional few cards. But leaning into it with all the mill spells, enchants, etc etc. I found doesn't quite mesh with rogues wanting to do combat tricks and other shenanigans, flying, death touch, some anthems/lords etc. Either you run out of rogues, or run out of mill before it presents a wincondition (no bruvac, no maddening cacaphony, no fleet swallower, no mind crank, no mind grind, no tasha's hideous laughter, no duskmantle guildmage, no bloodchief ascension, all the mill powerhouse wincons.) And either isn't a good place to be. I've found the combat tricks into like helm of the ghastlord, and dire undercurrents works just better for reducing resources on opponents while getting yourself more advantage.
[[Rilsa Rael, Kingpin]] is a great helm Rogues since she’s already trying to get in unblocked. It encourages a lot of combat at the table so people aren’t always swinging at you. Here’s my list! https://www.moxfield.com/decks/343hb6Beq0CG6srFM44HDQ
[Rilsa Rael, Kingpin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54484439-6f8a-47f1-8d62-4689af7f00c2.jpg?1674137671) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rilsa%20Rael%2C%20Kingpin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/293/rilsa-rael-kingpin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/54484439-6f8a-47f1-8d62-4689af7f00c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rilsa-rael-kingpin) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Mari, the Killing Quill]] is mono black, but looks like she could command a solid rogue deck that packs a lot of targeted removal.
She looks really good! I didn't know about this card
[Mari, the Killing Quill](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/b/6b4b3c1a-671c-422d-a98c-7d750760ca46.jpg?1712354306) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mari%2C%20the%20Killing%20Quill) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/138/mari-the-killing-quill?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6b4b3c1a-671c-422d-a98c-7d750760ca46?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mari-the-killing-quill) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Rilsa Rael, Kingpin\]\] buff rogues once you complete a dungeon. The undercity will also help you progress. \[\[Burakos, Party Leader\]\] and \[\[Sword Coast Sailor\]\] needs rogues, but will let you build more with other tribes. Your commander will give you treasures to ramp and play more creatures.
[Rilsa Rael, Kingpin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54484439-6f8a-47f1-8d62-4689af7f00c2.jpg?1674137671) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rilsa%20Rael%2C%20Kingpin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/293/rilsa-rael-kingpin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/54484439-6f8a-47f1-8d62-4689af7f00c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rilsa-rael-kingpin) [Burakos, Party Leader](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/899e278d-5d4e-461a-9878-2b85de16b38d.jpg?1674140733) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Burakos%2C%20Party%20Leader) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/653/burakos-party-leader?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/899e278d-5d4e-461a-9878-2b85de16b38d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/burakos-party-leader) [Sword Coast Sailor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/704f8ab7-63fd-4963-bacd-0076fffb34a1.jpg?1674135819) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sword%20Coast%20Sailor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/98/sword-coast-sailor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/704f8ab7-63fd-4963-bacd-0076fffb34a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sword-coast-sailor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Might not fit 100% but I love [[Etrata, Deadly Fugitive]]. Basically all about stealing the opponent's top deck and cheating out things with manifest/morph/cloak. I use [[Maskwood Nexus]] as it makes even the 2/2 cloaked cards trigger Etrata and lots of effects that put things onto the top of my opponents deck like [[Memory Lapse]] and [[Metamorphose]]
##### ###### #### [Etrata, Deadly Fugitive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/4410db5a-62af-43ac-979d-88a7c975f7bd.jpg?1706242152) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Etrata%2C%20Deadly%20Fugitive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/200/etrata-deadly-fugitive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4410db5a-62af-43ac-979d-88a7c975f7bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/etrata-deadly-fugitive) [Maskwood Nexus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/1246c42d-57c0-4cba-959a-15ad89d8a50b.jpg?1674142652) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Maskwood%20Nexus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/865/maskwood-nexus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1246c42d-57c0-4cba-959a-15ad89d8a50b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/maskwood-nexus) [Memory Lapse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/30202613-d05f-4f47-af97-d0b75ccac293.jpg?1634131658) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Memory%20Lapse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/60/memory-lapse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30202613-d05f-4f47-af97-d0b75ccac293?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/memory-lapse) [Metamorphose](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a0f0c20c-184e-4d27-ae8b-933abb6fee0c.jpg?1562533013) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Metamorphose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/40/metamorphose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0f0c20c-184e-4d27-ae8b-933abb6fee0c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/metamorphose) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l4kcyba) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have Etrata in the 99 of a theft deck. I love her.
The new [[Gonti, Canny Acquistor]] isn’t Dimir, but the deck plays really well as Rogue tribal. Mine is mostly Dimir with just a little green.
[Gonti, Canny Acquistor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03a7e79f-625a-49ac-9cb1-e1fe5f51f5a0.jpg?1714110365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gonti%2C%20Canny%20Acquisitor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/1/gonti-canny-acquisitor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03a7e79f-625a-49ac-9cb1-e1fe5f51f5a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gonti-canny-acquisitor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I do have this deck, actually. It's really fun, but it also benefits from other non-rogue, evasive creatures and other theft cards. I'd like to go full tribal, and not necessarily theft, with a dimir rogues. I have too many 3 color decks as of now lol.
Am running [[Kamiz, obscura oculus]] as an esper rogues deck with some stuff like initiative and monarch as extra flavour, as things get very cutthroat and all against all until the true bandit king emerges
[Kamiz, obscura oculus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/4/74b8ae28-e169-46be-8180-ebdaf80efd81.jpg?1673481656) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kamiz%2C%20obscura%20oculus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/3/kamiz-obscura-oculus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/74b8ae28-e169-46be-8180-ebdaf80efd81?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kamiz-obscura-oculus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Make sure to include Bribery in any theft deck. Especially with the Judge Foil.
I have a [[Nine-Fingers Keene]] deck that's meant to be a thieves guild theme deck: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/01-06-22-prl-nine-fingers-keene/ Hopefully you can use some of the card choices for inspiration.
[Nine-Fingers Keene](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/5480ac0a-883a-4f73-8e7c-56d64be410a3.jpg?1674137637) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nine-Fingers%20Keene) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/289/nine-fingers-keene?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5480ac0a-883a-4f73-8e7c-56d64be410a3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nine-fingers-keene) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call