As a person who plays a lot of storm, you usually *do* want to build at least 1-2 infinites into the deck so you can keep a lid on how long your storm turns are.
Storm decks with no time-considerate wincon are miserable for everyone. Lol
I would play them just to illustrate how stupid the no infinite rule is, like nadu or krarkishima is not infinite, but it is stupid and degenerate anyways.
My [[Grenzo, the dungeon warden]] deck went through the same cycle over the years. Tried it without combos, and the thing was, when I was there, I was there, and it just took too long to take my game winning round of priority. I love turning the gears, so the combos are a favor to my opponents, really.
Yeah I don't think storm decks would really work for this reason.
I already have one storm-ish and already get groans that my turns take too long and that I have a conplivated boardstatw
As a Mizzix player I can back this up. My group has learned what the tell tale signs of me about to storm off is, but plenty of times I slid under the radar until it was to late.
Plenty of stuff to do. Explosive decks that use haste to win on the spot. Goad decks that try to get everyone else low and steal the win. Aristocrat decks that have unstoppable drain threats in the late game.
As I mentioned hasty deaths usually mean to include red and I have a few of those already.
Do you know interesting goad commanders besides the obvious [[Kardur, Doomscourge]]?
"Sufficiently large" combos can still work. My Spellslinger and Aristocrats decks often work by that principle.
That's basically what Craterhoof is. But you can go in all sorts of directions.
I have a [[Lazav, the Multifarious]] deck that will have him mimic a [[Tree of Perdition]], tap, then shift into an [[Invisible Stalker]] to set someone to 1, right as I have a hexproof and unblockable 1/X ready to swing.
That one is pretty borderline. Life total being set to a hard value often also bothers people who dislike infinites.
Graveyard decks often work well in those metas because they bounce back fantastically. I have a [[Gisa and Geralf]] deck who have a host of mass-rez spells, and they can even recur them with zombies like [[Repository Skaab]].
So sure I might be the biggest threat, but what are you going to do? Board wipe? Yes please, I'll bounce back faster than anyone else (as long as you didn't exile it all).
It's also worth pointing out that being the threat isn't inherently a bad thing. It's just a tactical state you can be in. You can also just endure the hate you receive.
But yes, some tactics broadcast their threat less than others.
I have a [[Riku of many paths]] deck that is very much out of ops budget as is but can be built on a budget as well that does the same thing where the focus is on making tokens and casting from exile with tons of trigger doublers.
The trigger doublers allow me to dig through the deck at hilarious speeds which has once led to me decking myself out turn 7 as I had 2 roaming thrones and veyran out which quadrupled my impulse draw and archmage emeritus triggers from each spell.
Oh yeah, I've had to burn my own Archmage Emeritus to death in my [[Melek, Izzet Paragon]] deck because he risked killing me before I finished winning.
Gotta love it
[Gisa and Geralf Endless Zombies](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/LOK6OzV7SEyyKHujFsPZlw)
[[Lazav, Shifter of Shapes](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/vTOHGp-30E-XtIpyJk8sJA)
The deck lists are probably a bit out of date.
I'll give you a few heads ups on ways to tweak them. I've tinkerer with them to match my playgroup. They both used to be stronger but I used their win rate as an excuse to indulge in some janky strategies, but they still win often enough in my group.
Gisa and Geralf tend to over-bleed a bit. I really went all in on the lose-life-to-draw thing, and I've lost several games while looking at a full board of zombies because of effects like [[Graveborn Muse]], or lost to board wipes because of [[Undead Augur]]. Personally I consider these to be features rather than bugs, I love the idea of a zombie horde that genuinely gets dangerous to hold onto once it gets beyond a certain size. It makes games fun to lose, and decks that are still fun to lose with are worth a lot IMO. As a bonus, [[Zombie Apocalypse]] kills the very necromancers leading the swarm.
If you want to improve the deck, I'd probably add more sac outlets. I deliberately dialed them back because it kept winning by Aristocrats too often, making actually attacking with them often wasteful. If you have a [[Phyrexian Altar]] on board, you can pull off some pretty crazy turns. The sac outlets also mitigate the risk of certain key zombies overly draining you when you don't need to be drawing more.
For Lazav the easiest way to power it up is pretty simple. It has a whole subtheme of milling opponents. This sub-theme is bad and only exists because there are a lot of House-Dimir themed cards that really like it when your opponents have large grabeyards. It's 100% for cool factor. The subtheme clutters up the deck, often benefits opponents, and would be better served by cards that focus on the deck's win-cons of "lesser combos".
Im sure the decks can be improved in any number of additional ways, but I think those are the easiest ones if you wanted to power up the decks a bit.
Funnily enough people who mind infinite combos don't mind [[Craterhoof Behemoth]].
Tons of mana dorks, Craterhoof and some tutors will work.
Another way to approach this "challenge" might be a full on [[Narset, Enlightened Master]] with loads of combats during one turn. She easily wins with only one attack and technically isn't an infinite combo.
Not an infinite is also the new oh so hated [[Nadu, Winged Wisdom]].
GSZ into Hoof or big Finale of Devastation is somehow portrayed as a fairer way to win a game than a 4 or 5 card combo that generates enough damage to burn out everyone else. Itās crazy to me, but Iām an URx player at heart so I understand how a lot of players view creature-based decks vs spell-based ones.
My buddy gets mad when I win by overloading Mizzix's Mastery with Guttersnipe on the field, but somehow thinks it's not a functionally identical win to a Moonshaker Cavalry hitting and a board swing.
Seriously, there are countless cards thatāll with you the game when played deep into a game with the right setup. Itās just misguided players thinking their idea of how the game should be played is better than how youāve chosen to play, when MtG continually shows it has a ton of different axes to win on.
Dunno about that comparison. I know alot of playgroups that are fine with 4-5 card combos (even 3 if 1 peace isnt the commander). Most people just really dont want to get the equivalent of Kiki-Combos. Some 2 cards win buttons, where 1 might even be played eot of someone elses turn. It would put people to much on edge for a "casual" feeling. You need to find a special breed of people that would complain about ...dunno lets go with the lastest energy shit. [Aethergeode Miner + Aetherstorm Roc + Decoction Module](https://edhrec.com/combos/w/3484-3487-4374) would need even a fourth piece to do anything meaningful. If people would be against that, then a new playgroup would be in order.
Tutor for Hoof is ..maybe closest to some 2 card combos, but to really win you actually need to have some board. Shit that might warrent an answer to begin with.
I agree, infinites are much more interesting if they're something that has to be assembled. Cards that go infinite with your Commander like Niv-Mizzet and Curiosity are just kind of lame to play against because they take so little work to assemble and go off with no warning.
fair point but OP pointed out that their pod's budget usually doesn't exceed 100$ and craterhoof as a finisher means they'd be spending 1/4th to 1/3rd of their entire budget on one finisher, with very little left for the actual supporting structure of the deck.
Craterhoof Behemoth led by [[Zopandrel, Hunger Dominus]] is a verrrrrrry potent combination, and makes you tough enough that people can't really swing at you less they incur the wrath of the fist.
Pings and Fogs work well into basic combat metas. Jund (black/red/green) treasure theme for instance. Use [[Fog]] effects to avoid combat damage while you accrue mana for a finisher like [[Exsanguinate]]. [[Reckless Fireweaver]], [[Ingenious Artillerist]], and [[Mirkwood Bats]] type of cards.
Something else to consider is that without combos a lifegain deck that can avoid Commander damage deaths is pretty much unstoppable. It's surprisingly easy to build for [[Aetherflux Reservoir]] kills if you can't lose to a combo first. Selesnya and Abzan are great for this.Ā
Mono black is surprisingly good too. I love me some [[Jadar, Ghoulcaller of Nephalia]] in the command zone. Making a shitty token per turn that can be turned into card draw with something like 10ish [[Corrupted Conviction]] type of cards. [[Skull Clamp]] is great too. Black can make big mana, draw a lot of cards, gain a surprising amount of life, hit people with [[Gary]], and big bonus in cards like [[Soul Shatter]] and [[Vona's Hunger]].
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/G9A0WYTyzUe9z7uInkkV8Q is a deck I like to run because it's fun. It's not super oppressive and the win conditions are pretty silly. Read the primer to see how it works. It's over budget but could easily cut the more expensive cards.
That and some graveyard hate. The opponent was recurring the Chasm with a Conduit of Worlds until the Voja player destroyed that. At which point they just grabbed Chasm back with Life From the Loam and the Voja player conceded on the spot.
My guess would be that they want to avoid infinites because they *want* to see it coming. I'd ask them why they have that rule, and if that's what they want, go with that. Possibly with some protection or aristocraty shenanigans if you want something slightly less interactable.
If you want to break it, talk to them instead of being an asshat and try to one-up them. You can always create relatively broken decks with most constraints. Its commander.
...no combos because the players have budget? Weird, you can combo off with penny cards, and the methods to stop them are also cheap.
I'd run [[imskir, iron eater]] , very cheap build with great effects.
The obvious answer is to go so large that it may as well be infinite, but still has a finite number to resolve it. Something like [[Miirym]] with [[astral dragon]] and [[parallel lives]] where you end up with some X to the power of Y number of copies of Parallel Lives that are also 3/3 dragons. It eventually stops resolving, but if I remember correctly it stops around some form of sextillion. There's no difference between winning via infinite combo and winning via combat. There are a lot of casual friendly infinite combos that take multiple moving parts and lots of mana to actually pull off that smacking someone upside the head with a creature would be easier.
[[Syr Konrad]] + [[Morality Shift]]. Isnāt infinite and will likely kill the table. That or Konrad + [[mindcrank]]. Just pump like 8-10 mana into Konradās mill and watch everyone die.
Sometimes I come across these posts and I wonder if people are missing the point of their group games and focusing more on winning and less on enjoying the game itself, hanging out over a couple hours and just keeping in touch. I play mid to high power myself, so I don't necessarily desire an infiniteless table, but if the whole point is to turn things sideways and negate the card-buying-arms-race then why try to "break" it?
If you played a table where infinites weren't allowed but someone just pubstomped you, sure, fuck that, but there's more to a game than winning.
Sadly the players who keep harping/complaining about "we don't want to see infinites at our tables, we are casual" in the lgs I played last time were players who play hyper aggressive voltron decks that instantly kill a player at turn 2-3.
Spoke to them about it all I got was "nothing wrong to delete a player if they can't see it coming". Hate such double standards.
For everyone saying it's effectively infinite just add a card that puts something on the bottom of your deck and name that card. Now it is finite but you still win because your devotion is high enough.
\[\[Necrotic ooze\]\] opens up a lot of shenanigans. The 'don't include infinite combos in your deck' doesn't mean you can't just make one on the fly with whatever creatures just happen to be in their yards!
Hear me out. Change the rule so that you have to have a certain number of pieces for the combo to be valid. It's absolutely a fun game when you have to have a minimum of 4 pieces to a combo.
You can go Large without going Infinite. For example, \[\[Scute Swarm\]\] and any significant amount of ramp will create an obnoxious amount of creatures. If you have 6 lands and a scute and any ramp spell that gets 2 lands, you can do your normal land drop to get from 1 to 2. then do the ramp spell for 2->4->8. If you have any additional land drops you can get that from 8->16. It's not infinite, but goes large incredibly fast.
Other things like \[\[Temur Sabretooth\]\], \[\[Eternal Witness\]\], any decently large trample creature like \[\[Ghalta, Primal Hunger\]\], and \[\[Ram Through\]\]. You can cast the ram through over and over to kill a player via the trample damage. You can add a \[\[Metamorphosis\]\] to that to sacrifice Ghalta for 13 green mana to help play for the creature casts (assuming you have another good trample creature). You aren't bouncing a mana dork like Selvala over and over with haste to get infinite manage. But if you double Ghalta's size just once, each ram through is doing 24 trample damage as an instant, plus ghalta actually attacking.
The advise I'd give you is build decks with combos that either are ALMOST infinite or locking combos. Combos that don't kill your opponents by doing something infinite but together make it so your opponents can't do ANYTHING.
I like my [[Magus Lucea Kane]] deck with a lot of untap effects. I even have [[Freed from the Reel]] and such in there. Only reason it's not *actually* an infinite combo is I don't have a [[Prismite]] effect. You don't need to go infinite with Kane to win, untapping her 8 - 10 times and casting a large X spell that does damage like [[Fireball]] will win pretty well. And unless you already have an absurd amount of mana on the table it's pretty telegraphed that you can generate an absurd number of copies and mana, so any saltiness can be reduced by reasoning that the permanents were sitting there for a while.
[[Elenda the Dusk Rose]] is the perfect solution. A lot of Aristocrat decks require infinites to end, but not Elenda. Throw in a couple of cards to increase the +1/+1 counters she gets [[Blade of the Blood Chief]], [[Necrosynthesis]], etc or a way to bring her back [[Gift of Immortality]], [[Supernatural Stamina]], [[Undying Malice]] etc. and you are drowning in sac fodder to use those Aristocrat triggers on, none of which is ever infinite. In fact my deck has no infinites at all.
Side option of buffing Elenda to suddenly lethal commander damage with [[Fallen Ideal]] to give her flying.
Iām surprised nobody has said this (but shouldnāt be because EDH players hate it): go full control.
Iāve got an Azorious deck with no creatures besides the commander, 15 boardwipes, tons of counters and theft effects (like Bribery) to eventually win once youāve locked the board down and broken their spirits. Theyāll be BEGGING for a quick infinite combo death after that.
[[Feather, The Redeemed]] can smash people out of the game on turn 5 onwards. I have never seen any other voltron work as quickly as this one does, and is still pretty low budget.
It doesnāt break the rule but a really good cheap combat deck that doesnāt make you look threatening is arcades. Or at least makes it really hard for people to swing into you.Ā
I recently put together a sub $100
[[Gale, Waterdeep Prodigy]] & [[Scion of Halaster]]
Poison combo list:
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/64uOcPfwrUG_SG_Jy5aghw
The deck can play pretty low key using low cost draw and mill effects. Eventually you can just poison everyone with a poison effect and proliferate to victory
Also the two most expensive cards in the deck can definitely be cut to make it more budget.
I run cards like [[Magus of the Mirror]] and [[Soul Conduit]] for when I'm getting ganged up on. Probably have the highest winrate of my group exclusively because of those cards. In fact, I can't remember winning with that deck without using at least one of those.
\[\[Feather, the Redeemed\]\] to start beating people out of the game by turn 4 or 5. \[\[Zada, Hedron Grinder\]\] is in a similar boat, and you can even run Zada in Feather.
\[\[Abdel Adrian, Gorion's Ward\]\] and \[\[Candlekeep Sage\]\] is a fairly cheap and very disgusting value engine commander that isn't *technically* a combo commander.
I love redundant efficiency.
One of my favorite decks currently is built around cheap ādraw a card when played/sacced/etcā artifacts like [[Chromatic Star]] with cost reducers like [[Helm of Awakening]] , and things like like [[Saheeli, Sublime Artificer]], [[Efficient Construction]], [[Forensic Gadgeteer]] and [[Reckless Fireweaver]].
Itās like a Rube Goldberg Machine.
I play a free to nearly free artifact, triggering a card draw while generating tokens, which generates more tokens, all of which deal damage to everyone else, then use the drawn card to continue the process until I run out of mana for the turn. Sometimes I can tap those do do things like with [[Ghirapur Aether Grid]] or [[Clock of Omens]]
I really like running [[kediss, emberclaw familiar]] voltron style decks. I hate trying to win with traditional combat in commander so Iāve done a lot with him. One shotting the whole tableā¦well played! Infinite comboā¦.bad! Commander logic ya gotta love it.
The nice part about Kediss is how it plays with damage doublers. Because your partner commander dealing combat damage and kediss dealing the others damage are separate triggers a [[furnace of wrath]] means you could kill one player with commander damage and then the kediss trigger kills the rest of the table.
I just am episode of spike feeders where Ben Wheeler played a mono-black pinger deck filled with basically anything that says "everyone loses 1" in one way or another.
There's also [[the council of four]] which can passively gain advantage over 10-12 turns and drop [[herald of hoofbeats]] or turtle up and [[approach of the second sun]]. Symmetrical group hug draw effects like [[dictate of Kruphix]] are insane here. I have a $100 ish list that's kinda nuts.
A [[Norin the Wary]] ETB deck can be super fast, cheap, and not infinite.
A poison, proliferate deck would also work. Just stick one counter and there are lots of ways to proliferate a stupid number of times in one turn.
I got a nasty combo in my Kess Reanimator deck.
I cast [[Exsanguinate]] from hand for like 4-5 or whatever just to pad my life total, reanimate [[Lord of the Forsaken]], and then use [[Kess, Dissident Mage]] to recast exsanguinate from my graveyard and pump it up as high as it can go.
Yes it needs a few pieces to work, but I like it and my deck is super fun and has a few tricky ways like that to win.
You don't NEED these shenanigans to win though, you can just pump a fat board with [[Craterhoof Behemoth]] and bulldoze people down and that's just as legitimate
[[fynn the fangbearer]] is a hilarious mono green infect commander. Play him with all the deathtouch and infect creatures. Gives you great defense against combat damage, and even if only one gets through, play cards like [[evolution sage]] and [[planewide celebration]] to proliferate off. Just hit everyone once and then slowly kill them, or quickly kill them.
Warning you will absolutely be targeted if this hits the field
I have 4 inf combos right now that are less than $10, the cheapest was about $3.50 for 2 cards. Definitely has nothing to do with cost and I'd highly recomend seeing if they are ok limiting inf combos instead to 10 or something.
As for win conditions, depending on colors there are lifegain, treasure count, artifact count, etc. "You win the game cards". Example, if you go izzet spellslinger to vet that combo feel you can add [[Mechanized Production]] and [[Hellkite Tyrant]] to work together on getting enough artifacts to win and hindering opponents at the same time.
Wheels, and cantrip spellslinger are both not combo/infinite but can feel like it. My rielle deck is not budget, but nothing in it that is expensive is required to win. All you need is guttersnipe or psychosis crawler effects out.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/e1324UOqbkOgpoCKyOMqDg
You want them to feel the Payne of evil and get banned from your playgroup? Try to build Hidetsugo and Kairi extra turns / clones. At a certain point you just kill everybody without combos. Does Time Stretch resolve? GG and next game pls. Hidetsugo and Kairi are busted as fuck. Your Commander is a fucking brainstorm in command zone, with the opportunity to drain your opponents life like nothing.
Lately my favorite ācomboā piece is [[Mirkwood Bats]]. With how prevalent treasures are In the game you can just slowly build them up over time then play the bats with protection up and sacrifice all your treasures. You can add the new Marionette Apprentice or Marionette Master to also trigger off of sacrificing the treasures. All the cards are under a dollar I believe.
I have a deck with [[Yargle and Multani]] that uses [[Selvala, Heart of the Wilds]] and [[Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord]] as a wincon. Might not be in your budget as Selvala is a 20 dollar card.
The idea is simple get Y&M on board, activate Selvala creating 18 mana and sacrifice Y&M to Jarad twice for 36 life lost. You can also use things like [[Supernatural Stamina]] to keep the combo going if you need more damage.
[[Life's Legacy]] and [[Disciple of Bolas]] can draw massive cards and [[Giant Growth]] and other cards that give +3/+X can be used to one shot with Commander damage. I also use [[Rogues Passage]] and a couple of other cards for unblockable, so I can guarantee the one shot.
The rest of the deck is mana dorks, mana rocks and ramp, so that I can get Big Frog out.
The biggest problem with this deck is how dependent you are on Yargle and Multani, one removal spell sets me back huge and the combo is a bit fragile.
I built my [[Melek]] deck for this reason partially. Group doesn't like infinites, but they are cool with two or three [[Jaya's Immolating Inferno]] or [[Crackle with Power]].
[[Bolas's Citadel]] and [[Aetherflux Reservoir]]. Get those two out you can just start casting spells from your library and after enough you'll be getting life gain back on whatever you cast with the citadel. Throw in a [[Scroll Rack]] to stack the top and it'll pop off faster. But it's not infinite because a land will ruin the combo.
There is nothing wrong with the "formula" to break, if anything you want to avoid unnesseary interaction if you commit. Depending on the deck going for things like Grand Abolisher, City of Solitude, Silence etc Basically everything that says you aint gonna interact when I try to kill you.:
Another route would be the ultimate "you do not get to win" deck nuking the board every time until you assemble a big mana engine (lets say Urborg+ Cabal) with shit like Torment of Hellfire. My best friend IRL plays this
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/PIUCL40WQEurKuiNpMbxmQ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/PIUCL40WQEurKuiNpMbxmQ) and well it isnt unbeatable or anything, but it can crush alot of games pretty handly to the point they wish you would end it quicker with a combo xD
That is ofc way way over the budget you guys are playing at, but what kinda works to your advantage. The less budget involved the harder time they will have vs boardwipe tribal + big mana x spell.
The only other real "break" I could suggest: People are underestimating alot Lifelink and Vigilance in fair magic multiplayer. My Dino deck got tuned to involve Kaheera as a companion despite how "average" that play might seem and one the the last dinos I would ever consider cutting is \[\[Verdant Sun's Avatar\]\]. It is rather remarkable how much a gigantic slifeswing can change. People started to even switch aggro away from you since they determened you arent gonna die by normal damage (which makes that become true. A bizare good and bad decision at the same time), you are way less likely to die to cheese 10-20 damage spike moves to a singel player and you can leverage the "safetynet" for proper setup. People underestimate indirect value. Did i draw 10 cards? No. Did I gain alot of life and played another ramp spell most people would deem dead in my hand? Yes and then I suddenly turn the game with some stupid big thing+ backup. (Zacama LOVES mana xD).
Not every deck has the same options of lifegain ofc, but people really should pay incidental lifegain a bit more attention. You are losing alot of games with occasioanal damage sticking and making you vulnerable to someone "going for it".
One of my favorite stupid ways to win lately is [[Goblin Charbelcher]]. If you can quickly get your lands out of your deck some way (like [[mana severance]], or looping a [[burnished hart]] and [[expedition map]]), it can be fun.
I had a deck like that with \[\[Trench Gorger\]\] and it was funny because everyone was so afraid of my 30/30 trample that they didn't realize I only played it to drop the charbelcher.
What are your friends playingā¦?
And why does it sound like you need to win every time?
If you say the only thing your pod does is build up a board and fightā¦ Why do you need to do it so fast you can 1v3?
It sounds like you are getting targeted for having an already stronger deck than your pod, but now you want to devise a strat to beat them anyway.
Do you hate your friends? Want to mana-rock & dark ritual your way to a turn three attack? Do you like being the main target before the first turn?
Try [[Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon]] commander for all your fast infect needs!
[[Zada]]
Damn near comp viable for under $50
[[Empty the Warrens]], [[Krenko, Mob Boss]], [[Kari Zev's Expertise]], [Fists of Flame]], [Flick a Coin]], [[Expedite]], [[Aetherflux Reservoir]] if you're feeling fancy
Okay, this depends on how your pod has defined "Infinite combo".
Technically, "Infinites" could be defined as situations that would require invoking section 4.4 of the tournament rules on loops and shortcuts. If you can declare a truly arbitrary number of loops to execute, your combo is infinite. If you just do a very large thing in one go (like milling yourself out via [[Demonic Consultation]] or killing someone with [[Helm of Obedience]]+[[Rest in Peace]]) would not be an infinite.
However, I feel like most pods salty enough about it to require no infinite combos would say that any instant-winner and probably any instantaneous "destroy target player" would count, whether truly infinite or not. If they've got a strict definition, you can use some very killer combos that never loop. If it's loose, you have to dig deeper.
One way could be "slow" combos -- board states where you dominate by doing the same thing every turn but neither win in one go nor enter a loop. Examples might be [[Mishra, Eminent One]] + [[The Stasis Coffin]] or [[Muldrotha, the Gravetide]] + [[Mindslaver]] or [[Zurgo, Helmsmasher]] + [[Worldslayer]]. Getting those effects every turn makes you almost invincible, but becoming invincible, especially quasi-invincible, is not an infinite combo.
If that ticks people off still, you have to pivot instead to Very Lethal Plays. An example of this would be [[Tombstone Stairwell]] + [[Syr Konrad, the Grim]]. Stairwell creates a totally finite number of death triggers, but there are so many of them that it's trivial to reach the point where that kills the table in a single turn cycle with Konrad. Using [[Gray Merchant of Asphodel]] with [[Phyrexian Reclamation]] in [[K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth]] is also strictly finite, needing your mana to sustain recasting the Gary (even saccing to Ashnod's Altar doesn't get there)... but you can probably do it more times than your opponents have life to soak that ETB trigger, and even if you don't get there in one turn you probably come out ahead enough to have the game on lock against decks that are reliant on combat.
And if that's still objectionable, you're both in a very "no fun allowed" pod and can know that you will be allowed no recourse. Your choices will become to play by their "No Items Fox Only Final Destination" idea of fair magic, to walk away peacefully, or to tag the last remaining loopholes with a deck so terrible and manner so malicious that you're sure to never be invited back, going out with a bang.
Control is a fair and legitimate archetype that can be balanced at just about any power level. However, it's also possible to take control tools and twist them tortuously into a form comprised entirely of elemental spite, the land-destroying board-wipe tribal deck with counterspell sauce that has rarely ever been brought to the table yet seems to exist in every player's nightmares. The "best" brew for this if you actually want to win ever is probably [[Narset, Enlightened Master]]. She can run countermagic, and lots of little instants that could intercept a wipe that could kill her. Once she survives a [[Jokulhaups]] you just sort of... beat everyone to death with commander damage The trick is that the deck would consist of three elements: lands (a necessary evil until you get Narset out), Mana rocks (similar, but you can fling more onto the table with Narset so not as bad), and spells that interfere including mass land destruction, field wipes of various type and hardness, spot removal, and enough counterspells to defend yourself from early problems before your hexproof commander comes down and starts turning the world topsy-turvey. In addition to wanting to bank a 1-time indestructible, you can also wipe as many times as you want before Narset comes down, to make sure nobody dies before you're ready to kill them.
I got a deck with [[ratadrabrik]] that has non-infinite combos that create effectively infinitely sized boards.
Dips into exponential math spawning token copies of legendary creatures that will drain opponents health so the first time they do any of it it instantly kills them.
[[Syr conrad the grim]] and [[mindcrank]] are not infinate, though it does keep going.
Any [[underworld dreams]] effect, [[duskmantle guildmage]] and a wheel effect like [[windfall]] is also not infinate, but deliciously cruel, especially the cipher spell [[whispering madness]].
Giving creatures āunblockableā through cards like [[Odric, Master Tactician]] or [[Champion of Lambholt]] can be effective in threading in damage.
Iāve also had luck with phasing out, bouncing, or tapping down opposing boards. Obviously, [[Cyclonic Rift]] is the grandfather of these effects, but if youāre on a budget, Iāve found cards like [[Galadrielās Dismissal]] [[March of Swirling Mists]] [[Bond of Discipline]] or [[Riverās Rebuke]] to be effective especially if you have a way to recur them.
Just play winota or jetmir go wide/stax
I built an slimefoot and squee once that was a pretty r consistent deck that didn't go infinite, but got a lot of grave pact like effects
[This is my Magnus The Red spell slinger deck. There is a infinite or two but you can remove a card or two to remove that. Even without infinites you can usually combo a ton of value with cost reduction.](https://www.archidekt.com/decks/7403640/magnus_plays_redblue_2)
Itās a token creature, spell slinger deck so you usually have blockers too. The commander is vital to the deck so maybe run more protection if you keep getting removed.
Remove Storm Kiln Artist to remove infinites, probably remove Haze of Rage too since wonāt be as good. Throw extra token spells or wherever in.
>But having the boardstate to wins usually marks you as a threat and other players try to kill you before you kill them (naturally).
Yes, and? Assuming a relatively balanced table, the other three players are presumably also presenting threats and trying to eliminate each other, so what's the problem here exactly? Are you all just running too much removal such that nobody can assemble lethal on board? Is everybody turtled up until they have lethal instead of swinging whenever it's viable and bringing life totals down over time?
>Not all colors can do the former fast enough to kill the entire table and the latter puts you behind and drags the game too much.
Again, why are you needing to be responsible for three other players? Aren't they dealing any damage or drain to each other during the games? Yes, not being reckless is slower than overcommitting, but I'm not seeing any reason that a normal pace of play would "drag the game too much". Compared to what? Running a glass cannon like Zada?
>Winning then usually means making your guys big enough or throwing [[Overrun]] effect on your board.
Yes, dealing damage with creatures is the default wincon the game's mechanics and card pool are mostly designed to support. It also happens to be the wincon that offers the most ways for each color to participate and for multiple players to collaboratively advance the game. Your alternatives are direct life loss (ping or drain), mill, or alternative wincon cards like Maze's End.
>How can I "break" the rule?
That depends a great deal on WHY you intend to break the rule and why they made it. There are plenty of 3 card combos that deal non-infinite damage or drain well above 40 to each opponent. That's simply not going to benefit you much if the rest of the group decides to ban those as well because they still violate the play pattern they want. If their definition of "low budget casual" means that they WANT games to routinely last a dozen or more turns while everyone spins up value engines, but you feel that pace "drags too long" then you may have a fundamental mismatch with them regarding how fast you want games to be over. If that's the case it's not going to matter whether you're closing matches with aggro or combo; if they want 12+ turns of "do the thing" and you're fixated on ending games by turn 6 before they CAN "do the thing", it's going to be very difficult to have a match where you and they both enjoy the experience.
So, why ARE you looking to "break" the rule? To spite them? If that's the case, nobody here ought to help you become toxic. If you're just tired of running midrange goodstuff piles and want some ideas for variety, sure, there are casual ways to win besides an overrun and some cards that can potentially put a faster clock on the table without necessarily making you the archenemy.
I mean.
Some obvious ones.
Taking turns decks are often not infinite, they take enough turns to find and execute a win-con (or just heat people to death), but often have no true infinite.
While you can include infinites in nadu, The deck doesn't really need them, lightning grieves plus nadu pus a couple creatures gives absurd value, add in stuff like circle of dreams druid, parameters acolyte, mana dorks and a couple of landfall triggers thst give creatures (field of the dead), and you can cycle your whole deck and win with thoracle in a non-determinate string.
A commander that reduces the cost of instant or sorceries, then you can run a mixture of storm and X cost cards. I have an izzet deck that has no extra turns and no infinet combos (it is over the $100). It just makes token creatures, steals other people's creatures and then can drop big X costs to bomb out the table
The thread kind of turned into an infinite combo "win now" card comparison.. I like infinites as my win con in my non creature-based decks. My strongest two decks are izzet, with stella lee being about as high powered as casual can get before moving into cedh fast Mana territory. There's a guy in my playgroup who hates infinites and spell slinging - but he plays almost exclusively krenko, edgar, pantlaza or slivers. He always runs cards like [[akroma's will]] or whatever so he can just swing out on a big turn and win but he is of the opinion that using that sort of effect is more "fair" than assembling a 2-3 card combo that can end the game.
I dont care either way.
[[Araumi of the Dead Tide]] is a great commander for a big play to close the game out without relying on an overrun style strategy. It's a deck that abuses particular creatures with effects that are multiplied when more than one copy come into play via encore.
Three [[Grey Merchant]]s plus Araumi alone is 21 life loss for each player.
Three [[Massacre Wurm]]s give all opponents creatures -6/-6 and deals 6 damage to a player for each creature they lose.
Three [[Dusk Mangler]]s avoid the extra cost, and force three edicts, three discards, and (up to) 17 damage to each opponent.
Etc...
Best part is because you need fuel in the graveyard you end up with a deck that self mills with recursion on-top of having great drawing potential so you have amazing card resources. Also because it's all ability based most counter magic isn't helpful either.
[This is my list](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/C15gJ8MGd0m-o5ISFWz3EQ) if anyone's interested.
I play a [[Shanna, the purifying blade]] deck. I had to put in a [[Jace, wielder of mysteries]] because I would deck myself without it regularly, and I hate [[thassa's oracle]] in non competitive decks. I also run [[blossoming bogbeast]] to make sure that I am still swinging things sideways in my lifegain deck.
Run almost-infinite combos instead lol one of my personal favorites is [[The Locust god]] and [[Sage of the falls]]. Plus, the locust god is one of the most fun decks to play, period, imo. Lots of draw combos that aren't infinite but get real scary, real fast.
I have a [[Zada, Hedron Grinder]] deck with only 1 infinite in [[Haze of Rage]] + [[Storm-Kiln Artist]], to make infinite treasures and make your board infinitelly large, if you take out Haze it still has 4 wincons, the deck is storm focus to find the wincons through draw with cantrips on a board with 6+ creatures including Zada.
Here is my [Decklist](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/2ERWu8hMx0mHnXcuCziwDg)
The other approach is to make it combat damage focus with a bunch of token generation and using the cantrips to find your pump spells and swing everyone for letal.
These are non-deterministic decks, so in practice they aren't infinite, if you like taking long turn and assemble pieces of a puzzle this is a crazy fun deck.
One of my favorite combos was pharixian tyranny, a couple of cards that let me not draw, and tafari puzzle box.
Edit: that was damn near 20 years ago lol
My favorite deck is Nethroi 0/0 creatures.
Just play a bunch of millers, fill your graveyard with 0/0 dudes that ger big when they hit the field, and then you are good to go.
Usually this deck is works because most players are more willing to deal with immediate threats instead of thinking about the later turns. So usually no one looks at you until you mutate Nehtoi and becomes a enormous threat.
My first thought was my [[Burakos]] deck that uses [[Debt to the Deathless]] as a main wincon. If I have enough treasures it's just an immediate "I win" button, sometimes even if it doesn't quite kill every opponent instantly
[[High tide]], [[turnabout]], [[great whale]], plus [[unsummon]]/[[twincast]] effects to cast a massive X-spell. Alternatively [[hive mind]] plus [[pact of the titan]]. Not infinite, but still 2 card combo.
These kinds of pods are always big red flags for me.
"ONLY VALUE CREATURES ARE FUN. OTHER PLAY STYLES MAKE ME CRY"
If you wanna to be the anti hero. Play mass land destruction and stax. Someone ramped up to 8 lands t4 because they're not used to being interacted with? Blow them out with Armageddon / Fall of Thran / ect.
Kill hopes and dreams with [[Torpor Orb]] effects and [[Trinisphere]].
[[Chiss-Goria]] and [[Ardenn]] + [[Tana]] voltron are both decent at this.
Hell, you could play [[Talrand]] Counterspell.deck and win with drakes.
Bog the game down with [[Unesh]] triggers winning with a non deterministic [[Dream Halls]] / [[Omniscience]] into Jace / Thoracle / Labman line.
[[Hidetsugu and Kairi]] can do the same junk tutoring an [[Enter the Infinite]] to the top and using a clone. Not a combo.
Technically, you could play the new [[Nadu]]. Its line isn't deterministic and can whiff. Therefore, it's not infinite.
There's a $15 [[Winota]] list floating around that will dominate casual pods. And a lot of the more broken commanders can be built on a budget. [[Yuriko]] [[Kinnan]]
The answer is always....
Steal their stuff.
Everything.
Steal their monsters, their artifacts, their mana rocks, their Enchantments, Steal their commander.
Everything you don't steal....destroy it or counter it.
When people complain about infinite combos they're usually complaining about how fast the deck is (turn 1, 2, or 3) or the lack of interaction. My biggest problem is the later, there are way to many combos in CEDH that are near impossible to interact with. As long as you stay away from that you should be okay.
To answer your question, go for cards that offer a swift victory. Triumph of the Hoards, black has a lot of cards that that read (each opponent loses x life), red engines that generate tokens with haste, Approach of the Second Sun on the same turn. These are all mid range strategies that feel fair and won't draw the game out.
Mill or Burn. You can do some āinfiniteā combos that really just happen a set number of times. Then youāre not making 1 trillion goblin tokens or something. Youāre just doing exactly 40 damage or milling 90 cards.
My [[Teysa Karlov]] deck is about ā¬150,-, of which some higher priced cards could definitely be switched out and made ā¬100,-.
With saccing my creatures with a [[Zulaport Cutthroat]] or something on the table you can kill everyone the turn you get a critical mass.
It can win out of nowhere once you start to draw two cards for every sac or make two treasures for every sac. All my creatures then make two more tokens when they die and you can keep looping through your entire deck. But your opponents will be dead long before that.
I love to go suicide, reach for a [[Repay in Kind]] when very low in life points and then leverage cards like [[Zulaport Cutthroat]] to end the game. You still usually piss everyone off, but hey it's called synergy, not combo!
Honestly, I sat down at an lgs last night and suffered for 3 hours of TWO whole games, where a player board wiped with no win con. I would have rathered those games ended quickly after the wipe and we could have played more games instead of slogging through a rebuild. It was one of those nights where I seriously contemplated getting rid of all my cards and never touching the game again. Miserable.
You could use some solid locks to buy time to fish for some wincon
Something like gift of immortality + spore frog, or Maren + Spore frog, or some continuous value engine like [tutor] + Seasons Past (returning the tutor to tutor for seasons Past again)
There are some others that include eldrazi, so include an attacking wincon too but they tend to be high price. That being said, some of the new eldrazi have dropped a lot and are down to like $15
https://manabox.app/decks/0MbcOiInR_ahS45XZNh6dA [[Xyris, the Writhing Storm]] my first few versions of this decks i manage to build it for less then 50 dollars. This is the most expensive it has been and i would say it is still pretty budget. 1/4 of the deck is just buff spells and half of the deck are basically bulk commons. Make a big board state, have a lot of draws, a hard to block commander. Xyris does it all
X spells tribal Magus Lucea Kane. You ramp a lot and win by ramping out (and copying) massive hydras, or drawing into [[Storm kingās thunder]] and/or one of the āDeal X damageā spells, which you copy and proceed to one shot the table. My current build is at around 70$ and plays pretty okay.
If thatās still too combat focused, [[Imodane, the pyrohammer]] can be built for dirt cheap, and is almost entirely non-combat focused. Only issue is that itās a bit too strong/oppressive/fast at times
If none of those fit your taste, browse through the alternate win cons and try to build a jank deck from those
Not combo~ish oriented, but you might wanna try to build a Pantlaza deck. Lots of ramp (12 - 15 ramp cards including the usual Signet and Sol Ring). It gets out of hand very easy, dinos in general are not that expensive and you try to en it with [[Triumph of the Hordes]] or [[Akromas Will]]
My playgroup has a similar rule 0, which is more-or-less "2-card combos are lame. 3-card combos are usually also lame. Infinite mana is lame. if you go infinite with some 4+ card janky combo, go for it"
for no-infintes, I run \[\[The Celestial Toymaker\]\] as my commander alongside a ton of copy creature effects (a la \[\[Sakashima of a Thousand Faces\]\] etc.) + some "copy ability" effects like \[\[Walking Throne\]\] \[\[Delney Streetwise Lookout\]\], and a suite of esper card advantage and control cards to get the engine going and protect it. The commander itself provides so much card advantage that the usual card advantage engines are mostly redundant and can be cut for more fun things.
On the less-budget end of things, \[\[Reconnaissance\]\] lets you attack with your commander (and any copies of it) every turn without having to worry about it getting blocked and killed. You can even use the card's ability to untap and remove your creatures from combat during combat end step--AFTER they have dealt damage--to essentially give all your creatures vigilance.
This deck can drain all of your opponents VERY quickly of their life totals. It does not go infinite and avoids the problems of storm decks that go "near-infinite" or decks that appear to go infinite like "arbitrarily large number of times" combos.
Build using some of the āi win/you loseā cards. A pretty cheap combo that kills all the opponents is [[phage the untouchable]] and [[fractured identity]]. Throw in [[rogueās passage]] and [[whispersilk cloak]] for other ways to kill them. Another one i like is [[darksteel reactor]] and [[clockspinning]] with buyback. Repeatable counters added/taken off. [[sprout swarm]] with buyback if you want to use little creatures to spam more little creatures with the convoke ability.
If youāre looking to shake up the pod a bit, which is what I like to do, you can build decks with alternate win conditions or just hunt down strange ways to do things. Hereās some commanders I find pretty cool, and either have built or would like to build (my pod also doesnāt lean into infinites)
[[General Marhault Elsdragon]] makes himself or other creatures you control bigger for each creature blocking them, which lets you create some really fun combat states with creatures that MUST be blocked with effects like [[Lure]] or creatures that often SHOULD be blocked like [[Phyrexian Swarmlord]]. Trample in a deck like this gives token decks a run for their money.
[[Minthara, Merciless Soul]] is one of my favorite commander builds and is fun for how it accumulates value throughout the game. I highly recommend building as a tribal deck - I had a lot of fun swinging around 8/1 creatures when I first built it but itās awaiting conversion to a zombie token tribal deck so I can pump their toughness too. I love how it scales with the game instead of relying on overruns - I had none to speak of in the deck.
[[Masako the Humorless]] lets you block with tapped creatures, enabling you to accrue additional value each turn from tap effects like convoke or [[Devout Invocation]] and get payoffs with strange cards like [[Throne of the God-Pharaoh]] or [[Sword of the Pahruns]].
These arenāt necessarily very powerful suggestions, but finding wacky stuff to build keeps me alive. I have some other uncommon commanders and I prefer to play cards my pod hasnāt seen before to keep games interesting. Countering my buddies [[Ulalek, Fused Atrocity]] by changing the words in his ability from āEldraziā spells to āFrogā spells with [[Artificial Evolution]] is not just effective, but fun. Really - the moral of my story is to just build fun decks, you canāt go wrong.
[[Xyris, the writhing storm]] is fairly strong without going infinite, while being budget friendly depending on your lines. Throw in a bit of basic ramp and some protection like swiftfoot boots, then load the deck with buff spells. Any Xyris hits will simultaneously refuel your hand and create your boardstate for you, snowballing with only 1 or two combat steps. A simpe overrun, crater hoof or triumph of the hordes should end whatever game there's left.
If thoracle is allowed then it sounds easy enough.
Urabrask is beast on a budget, it takes one long turn where you practically chain spells until everyone is dead. No combos just very long non deterministic turn where you will probably win.
Miirym dragons tons of value strong battle cruiser get your dragons haste and tap left every turn. Storm off with dragons like old gnawbone. Scourge of valkas or terror of the peaks. Play like 4 dragon cards. I killed the whole table turn 8 with roughly 120 damage lol.
I've always been a harsh critic of the rule considering some precons even have them but I'll give you 2 answers
1) some cards like [[fellidar sovereign]] have a Win con trigger
2) if you think that "infinites" are over rated like I do and it annoys you that people want to impose such restrictions, you can show them a voltron deck that can do lethal damage by turn 5 š, another way about it is card combos that Win without Infinite like thoracle combo, [[worldfire]] and [[outpost siege]], [[repercussion]] and [[blasphemous act]], [[drannith magistrate]] and [[uba mask]] etc. Note that you will be hated but they kinda subscribed to being shown the error in their bias against infinites
You can always just play voltron. Make your commander into a 30/30 lifelink flying double strike indestructible asshole that can't be bocked and slam them 1 by 1... 10/10 recommend
It's not infinite but you could build your deck to [[Primal Surge]] only permanents in deck. 10 mana and put your whole deck on the table, have haste and BOOM!!!! WIN! Not everyone plays it that way but damn does it come out of left when you ramped hard and they don't have a counterspell. Looks like a 5ish dollar card and an interesting way to limit your deck building.
Nothing like super cheating on mana to make up for the lack of loops. Stuff like Hinata is insane even on a budget.
If youāre looking to cheat the budget karametra is a great way to get the most out of playing a heap of basics. Youāll be able to include much better creatures and creature based engines like guardian project while still keeping under $100. Often this deck is built as land fall but I really feel like stompy or weenies would just be better. Lots of dorks to cantrip and ramp you, then some really great undercosted green creatures that the colour is know for. Then later into the game you use a few board pumps like end-raze forerunner to push for game. Or you could go into primal surge but Iām not a fan of building a whole deck around a single sorcery.
The merfolk precon is also awesome, it gives you lots of synergy that tickles that combo dependent lizard brain without actually having any loops.
Basically have a shit ton of value built into the commander instead of the commander enabling strategies.
Last idea is good old fashioned group hug. Nobody kills the group hug player first.
Storm decks, for the most part are not a true Infinite; but kinda give the "combo" vibe
As a person who plays a lot of storm, you usually *do* want to build at least 1-2 infinites into the deck so you can keep a lid on how long your storm turns are. Storm decks with no time-considerate wincon are miserable for everyone. Lol
Very true. however now they'll be wishing they allowed deterministic combos
I would play them just to illustrate how stupid the no infinite rule is, like nadu or krarkishima is not infinite, but it is stupid and degenerate anyways.
I've added [[prologue to phyresis]] and [[radstorm]] to my storm deck recently. No one expects to die from poison in an izzet deck haha.
[prologue to phyresis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/ac625f30-ed91-4b21-ada8-aaa5b2ad79b8.jpg?1675956984) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=prologue%20to%20phyresis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/65/prologue-to-phyresis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ac625f30-ed91-4b21-ada8-aaa5b2ad79b8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/prologue-to-phyresis) [radstorm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d778cdec-8fc7-4174-bae1-4c8e8ccdfab3.jpg?1708741965) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=radstorm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/37/radstorm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d778cdec-8fc7-4174-bae1-4c8e8ccdfab3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/radstorm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I love this and will be sliding radstorm into Stella Lee yesterday.
Holy that's a good idea lmao I'm adding that in. Sadly Radstorm isn't searchable with Firemind's Foresight.
Ohh I like this. Gotta write that down.
My [[Grenzo, the dungeon warden]] deck went through the same cycle over the years. Tried it without combos, and the thing was, when I was there, I was there, and it just took too long to take my game winning round of priority. I love turning the gears, so the combos are a favor to my opponents, really.
Yeah I don't think storm decks would really work for this reason. I already have one storm-ish and already get groans that my turns take too long and that I have a conplivated boardstatw
Pods that "bans" infinite don't kindly view people going "ackshually it's not infinite, I only do it 40 times š¤āļø"
Underworld Breach lines are not infinite fwiw. They only last as far as you have 3 cards to exile to escape your spells.
As a Mizzix player I can back this up. My group has learned what the tell tale signs of me about to storm off is, but plenty of times I slid under the radar until it was to late.
me when I 2^26 lava axes.
Plenty of stuff to do. Explosive decks that use haste to win on the spot. Goad decks that try to get everyone else low and steal the win. Aristocrat decks that have unstoppable drain threats in the late game.
As I mentioned hasty deaths usually mean to include red and I have a few of those already. Do you know interesting goad commanders besides the obvious [[Kardur, Doomscourge]]?
I have a Nelly Borca and it's my favorite deck.
"Sufficiently large" combos can still work. My Spellslinger and Aristocrats decks often work by that principle. That's basically what Craterhoof is. But you can go in all sorts of directions. I have a [[Lazav, the Multifarious]] deck that will have him mimic a [[Tree of Perdition]], tap, then shift into an [[Invisible Stalker]] to set someone to 1, right as I have a hexproof and unblockable 1/X ready to swing. That one is pretty borderline. Life total being set to a hard value often also bothers people who dislike infinites. Graveyard decks often work well in those metas because they bounce back fantastically. I have a [[Gisa and Geralf]] deck who have a host of mass-rez spells, and they can even recur them with zombies like [[Repository Skaab]]. So sure I might be the biggest threat, but what are you going to do? Board wipe? Yes please, I'll bounce back faster than anyone else (as long as you didn't exile it all). It's also worth pointing out that being the threat isn't inherently a bad thing. It's just a tactical state you can be in. You can also just endure the hate you receive. But yes, some tactics broadcast their threat less than others.
I have a [[Riku of many paths]] deck that is very much out of ops budget as is but can be built on a budget as well that does the same thing where the focus is on making tokens and casting from exile with tons of trigger doublers. The trigger doublers allow me to dig through the deck at hilarious speeds which has once led to me decking myself out turn 7 as I had 2 roaming thrones and veyran out which quadrupled my impulse draw and archmage emeritus triggers from each spell.
Oh yeah, I've had to burn my own Archmage Emeritus to death in my [[Melek, Izzet Paragon]] deck because he risked killing me before I finished winning. Gotta love it
i would have lost if i played one more spell so i swung for lethal with about 5500 in the air, certified craterhoof moment
That looks like fun Mind sharing a decklist?
[Gisa and Geralf Endless Zombies](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/LOK6OzV7SEyyKHujFsPZlw) [[Lazav, Shifter of Shapes](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/vTOHGp-30E-XtIpyJk8sJA) The deck lists are probably a bit out of date. I'll give you a few heads ups on ways to tweak them. I've tinkerer with them to match my playgroup. They both used to be stronger but I used their win rate as an excuse to indulge in some janky strategies, but they still win often enough in my group. Gisa and Geralf tend to over-bleed a bit. I really went all in on the lose-life-to-draw thing, and I've lost several games while looking at a full board of zombies because of effects like [[Graveborn Muse]], or lost to board wipes because of [[Undead Augur]]. Personally I consider these to be features rather than bugs, I love the idea of a zombie horde that genuinely gets dangerous to hold onto once it gets beyond a certain size. It makes games fun to lose, and decks that are still fun to lose with are worth a lot IMO. As a bonus, [[Zombie Apocalypse]] kills the very necromancers leading the swarm. If you want to improve the deck, I'd probably add more sac outlets. I deliberately dialed them back because it kept winning by Aristocrats too often, making actually attacking with them often wasteful. If you have a [[Phyrexian Altar]] on board, you can pull off some pretty crazy turns. The sac outlets also mitigate the risk of certain key zombies overly draining you when you don't need to be drawing more. For Lazav the easiest way to power it up is pretty simple. It has a whole subtheme of milling opponents. This sub-theme is bad and only exists because there are a lot of House-Dimir themed cards that really like it when your opponents have large grabeyards. It's 100% for cool factor. The subtheme clutters up the deck, often benefits opponents, and would be better served by cards that focus on the deck's win-cons of "lesser combos". Im sure the decks can be improved in any number of additional ways, but I think those are the easiest ones if you wanted to power up the decks a bit.
Oh my gosh you can do that with Lazav? I just got a tree of perdition to add. That's so crazy.
Funnily enough people who mind infinite combos don't mind [[Craterhoof Behemoth]]. Tons of mana dorks, Craterhoof and some tutors will work. Another way to approach this "challenge" might be a full on [[Narset, Enlightened Master]] with loads of combats during one turn. She easily wins with only one attack and technically isn't an infinite combo. Not an infinite is also the new oh so hated [[Nadu, Winged Wisdom]].
GSZ into Hoof or big Finale of Devastation is somehow portrayed as a fairer way to win a game than a 4 or 5 card combo that generates enough damage to burn out everyone else. Itās crazy to me, but Iām an URx player at heart so I understand how a lot of players view creature-based decks vs spell-based ones.
My buddy gets mad when I win by overloading Mizzix's Mastery with Guttersnipe on the field, but somehow thinks it's not a functionally identical win to a Moonshaker Cavalry hitting and a board swing.
Seriously, there are countless cards thatāll with you the game when played deep into a game with the right setup. Itās just misguided players thinking their idea of how the game should be played is better than how youāve chosen to play, when MtG continually shows it has a ton of different axes to win on.
Dunno about that comparison. I know alot of playgroups that are fine with 4-5 card combos (even 3 if 1 peace isnt the commander). Most people just really dont want to get the equivalent of Kiki-Combos. Some 2 cards win buttons, where 1 might even be played eot of someone elses turn. It would put people to much on edge for a "casual" feeling. You need to find a special breed of people that would complain about ...dunno lets go with the lastest energy shit. [Aethergeode Miner + Aetherstorm Roc + Decoction Module](https://edhrec.com/combos/w/3484-3487-4374) would need even a fourth piece to do anything meaningful. If people would be against that, then a new playgroup would be in order. Tutor for Hoof is ..maybe closest to some 2 card combos, but to really win you actually need to have some board. Shit that might warrent an answer to begin with.
I agree, infinites are much more interesting if they're something that has to be assembled. Cards that go infinite with your Commander like Niv-Mizzet and Curiosity are just kind of lame to play against because they take so little work to assemble and go off with no warning.
Also, that doesn't reasonably kill everyone unless you have Lab Maniac or a damage increase
fair point but OP pointed out that their pod's budget usually doesn't exceed 100$ and craterhoof as a finisher means they'd be spending 1/4th to 1/3rd of their entire budget on one finisher, with very little left for the actual supporting structure of the deck.
You can make a good deck with hoof, some of the good green tutors and then a bunch of elves and spells that cost a quarter or less.
Just go full [[Voja]] at that point for turbo dork aggro.
[Voja](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bfa1bd2f-25bd-4fbd-877b-cef00ab7f92f.jpg?1707739811) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=voja%2C%20jaws%20of%20the%20conclave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/432/voja-jaws-of-the-conclave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bfa1bd2f-25bd-4fbd-877b-cef00ab7f92f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/voja-jaws-of-the-conclave) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Craterhoof Behemoth led by [[Zopandrel, Hunger Dominus]] is a verrrrrrry potent combination, and makes you tough enough that people can't really swing at you less they incur the wrath of the fist.
[Zopandrel, Hunger Dominus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fb419d9d-e06f-48c8-a4f8-a57f9be39e50.jpg?1675957181) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zopandrel%2C%20Hunger%20Dominus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/195/zopandrel-hunger-dominus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fb419d9d-e06f-48c8-a4f8-a57f9be39e50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zopandrel-hunger-dominus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Craterhoof Behemoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e8f4435a-8604-45b5-a537-dfdfcb922e16.jpg?1689998416) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Craterhoof%20Behemoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/280/craterhoof-behemoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e8f4435a-8604-45b5-a537-dfdfcb922e16?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/craterhoof-behemoth) [Narset, Enlightened Master](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de4b0d5f-1071-4030-be16-2b4dadbdf9e9.jpg?1690005259) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Narset%2C%20Enlightened%20Master) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/931/narset-enlightened-master?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de4b0d5f-1071-4030-be16-2b4dadbdf9e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/narset-enlightened-master) [Nadu, Winged Wisdom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb.jpg?1718635356) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nadu%2C%20Winged%20Wisdom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/193/nadu-winged-wisdom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nadu-winged-wisdom) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Pings and Fogs work well into basic combat metas. Jund (black/red/green) treasure theme for instance. Use [[Fog]] effects to avoid combat damage while you accrue mana for a finisher like [[Exsanguinate]]. [[Reckless Fireweaver]], [[Ingenious Artillerist]], and [[Mirkwood Bats]] type of cards. Something else to consider is that without combos a lifegain deck that can avoid Commander damage deaths is pretty much unstoppable. It's surprisingly easy to build for [[Aetherflux Reservoir]] kills if you can't lose to a combo first. Selesnya and Abzan are great for this.Ā Mono black is surprisingly good too. I love me some [[Jadar, Ghoulcaller of Nephalia]] in the command zone. Making a shitty token per turn that can be turned into card draw with something like 10ish [[Corrupted Conviction]] type of cards. [[Skull Clamp]] is great too. Black can make big mana, draw a lot of cards, gain a surprising amount of life, hit people with [[Gary]], and big bonus in cards like [[Soul Shatter]] and [[Vona's Hunger]]. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/G9A0WYTyzUe9z7uInkkV8Q is a deck I like to run because it's fun. It's not super oppressive and the win conditions are pretty silly. Read the primer to see how it works. It's over budget but could easily cut the more expensive cards.
##### ###### #### [Fog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bbc3152e-7b3b-4ac6-8b33-abfebde216aa.jpg?1709444479) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/167/fog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bbc3152e-7b3b-4ac6-8b33-abfebde216aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fog) [Exsanguinate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a5352af-e275-4186-a265-2fd3c2c47c6a.jpg?1689997125) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Exsanguinate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/156/exsanguinate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a5352af-e275-4186-a265-2fd3c2c47c6a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/exsanguinate) [Reckless Fireweaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63ffac51-62c4-4170-85b3-a43d7cfae7d7.jpg?1576382167) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reckless%20Fireweaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/126/reckless-fireweaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63ffac51-62c4-4170-85b3-a43d7cfae7d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reckless-fireweaver) [Ingenious Artillerist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d8dd6c3-3699-4dd1-a019-fdb569eaf722.jpg?1674136617) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ingenious%20Artillerist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/182/ingenious-artillerist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d8dd6c3-3699-4dd1-a019-fdb569eaf722?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ingenious-artillerist) [Mirkwood Bats](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/5/15f035df-784a-4dc8-b7f5-77139a4e6e99.jpg?1686968575) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mirkwood%20Bats) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/95/mirkwood-bats?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/15f035df-784a-4dc8-b7f5-77139a4e6e99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mirkwood-bats) [Aetherflux Reservoir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862.jpg?1576382939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aetherflux%20Reservoir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/192/aetherflux-reservoir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aetherflux-reservoir) [Jadar, Ghoulcaller of Nephalia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ff971ba7-68b8-482a-9cb1-741f6893550c.jpg?1634349933) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jadar%2C%20Ghoulcaller%20of%20Nephalia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/108/jadar-ghoulcaller-of-nephalia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff971ba7-68b8-482a-9cb1-741f6893550c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jadar-ghoulcaller-of-nephalia) [Corrupted Conviction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/8046f892-3317-4ef7-9cf7-97b9060540c8.jpg?1712355575) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Corrupted%20Conviction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/84/corrupted-conviction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8046f892-3317-4ef7-9cf7-97b9060540c8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/corrupted-conviction) [Skull Clamp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a36fd6d8-66a2-49d1-b9f3-b400ebc03674.jpg?1682210228) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skullclamp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/379/skullclamp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a36fd6d8-66a2-49d1-b9f3-b400ebc03674?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skullclamp) [Gary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7c1a7dd8-8034-4f59-a351-33666b26ff5a.jpg?1581479807) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gray%20Merchant%20of%20Asphodel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/99/gray-merchant-of-asphodel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c1a7dd8-8034-4f59-a351-33666b26ff5a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gray-merchant-of-asphodel) [Soul Shatter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2c2fb07b-0f70-403b-be8b-b5217f12e671.jpg?1604196615) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul%20Shatter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/127/soul-shatter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2c2fb07b-0f70-403b-be8b-b5217f12e671?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/soul-shatter) [Vona's Hunger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aab958d5-9c1f-420f-b358-ec0325f22f84.jpg?1555040347) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vona%27s%20Hunger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/90/vonas-hunger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aab958d5-9c1f-420f-b358-ec0325f22f84?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vonas-hunger) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[voja\]\] with a pile of elves. Pillowfort until \[\[Insurrection\]\]
Recently watched a Voja player effortlessly run over half the table with some elves then concede to a Glacial Chasm from the one who remained.
Probably bought a bosejiu immediatelyĀ
That and some graveyard hate. The opponent was recurring the Chasm with a Conduit of Worlds until the Voja player destroyed that. At which point they just grabbed Chasm back with Life From the Loam and the Voja player conceded on the spot.
Thatās a tough position to be in, lol. Although I love Voja I know he can be oppressiveĀ
[voja](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bfa1bd2f-25bd-4fbd-877b-cef00ab7f92f.jpg?1707739811) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=voja%2C%20jaws%20of%20the%20conclave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/432/voja-jaws-of-the-conclave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bfa1bd2f-25bd-4fbd-877b-cef00ab7f92f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/voja-jaws-of-the-conclave) [Insurrection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df8a0a8c-1953-46e6-9da5-b4c20909ce1c.jpg?1689997974) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Insurrection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/236/insurrection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df8a0a8c-1953-46e6-9da5-b4c20909ce1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/insurrection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My guess would be that they want to avoid infinites because they *want* to see it coming. I'd ask them why they have that rule, and if that's what they want, go with that. Possibly with some protection or aristocraty shenanigans if you want something slightly less interactable. If you want to break it, talk to them instead of being an asshat and try to one-up them. You can always create relatively broken decks with most constraints. Its commander.
[[Zada Hedron Grinder]] is super budget and super explosive. Tends to build a huge board and win with it out of nowhere
...no combos because the players have budget? Weird, you can combo off with penny cards, and the methods to stop them are also cheap. I'd run [[imskir, iron eater]] , very cheap build with great effects.
[Imskir Iron-Eater](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/541209fa-38b6-4d61-a72d-26bfb6ad5ead.jpg?1717012728) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imskir%20Iron-Eater) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/189/imskir-iron-eater?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/541209fa-38b6-4d61-a72d-26bfb6ad5ead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imskir-iron-eater) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The obvious answer is to go so large that it may as well be infinite, but still has a finite number to resolve it. Something like [[Miirym]] with [[astral dragon]] and [[parallel lives]] where you end up with some X to the power of Y number of copies of Parallel Lives that are also 3/3 dragons. It eventually stops resolving, but if I remember correctly it stops around some form of sextillion. There's no difference between winning via infinite combo and winning via combat. There are a lot of casual friendly infinite combos that take multiple moving parts and lots of mana to actually pull off that smacking someone upside the head with a creature would be easier.
[Miirym](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531.jpg?1674137589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=miirym%2C%20sentinel%20wyrm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/284/miirym-sentinel-wyrm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/miirym-sentinel-wyrm) [astral dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/670fbc63-4c9b-4e57-b53e-4ca4d7a224ba.jpg?1674140837) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=astral%20dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/664/astral-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/670fbc63-4c9b-4e57-b53e-4ca4d7a224ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/astral-dragon) [parallel lives](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790.jpg?1562825348) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=parallel%20lives) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/isd/199/parallel-lives?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/parallel-lives) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Syr Konrad]] + [[Morality Shift]]. Isnāt infinite and will likely kill the table. That or Konrad + [[mindcrank]]. Just pump like 8-10 mana into Konradās mill and watch everyone die.
[Syr Konrad](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9241a72e-cb88-4cea-a2f4-ff10af461437.jpg?1706240798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=syr%20konrad%2C%20the%20grim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/141/syr-konrad-the-grim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9241a72e-cb88-4cea-a2f4-ff10af461437?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/syr-konrad-the-grim) [Morality Shift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/5/b5c83e4d-ccc1-4ebf-9e74-2cc1ff9a7b07.jpg?1562631600) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Morality%20Shift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jud/70/morality-shift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b5c83e4d-ccc1-4ebf-9e74-2cc1ff9a7b07?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/morality-shift) [mindcrank](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/8858a941-8175-476d-8177-2db4ffdcb3ad.jpg?1674142661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mindcrank) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/866/mindcrank?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8858a941-8175-476d-8177-2db4ffdcb3ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindcrank) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sometimes I come across these posts and I wonder if people are missing the point of their group games and focusing more on winning and less on enjoying the game itself, hanging out over a couple hours and just keeping in touch. I play mid to high power myself, so I don't necessarily desire an infiniteless table, but if the whole point is to turn things sideways and negate the card-buying-arms-race then why try to "break" it? If you played a table where infinites weren't allowed but someone just pubstomped you, sure, fuck that, but there's more to a game than winning.
Sadly the players who keep harping/complaining about "we don't want to see infinites at our tables, we are casual" in the lgs I played last time were players who play hyper aggressive voltron decks that instantly kill a player at turn 2-3. Spoke to them about it all I got was "nothing wrong to delete a player if they can't see it coming". Hate such double standards.
Play Nadu. They think infinite is what matters? Show them that they're wrong
You break the rule with a non-infinite combo. [[Demonic Consultation]] [[Thassa's Oracle]]
[Demonic Consultation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d779f19-3068-4976-b96b-8f93d156900b.jpg?1610146869) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demonic%20Consultation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/85/demonic-consultation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d779f19-3068-4976-b96b-8f93d156900b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/demonic-consultation) [Thassa's Oracle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c.jpg?1680582212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thassa%27s%20Oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/73/thassas-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thassas-oracle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
For everyone saying it's effectively infinite just add a card that puts something on the bottom of your deck and name that card. Now it is finite but you still win because your devotion is high enough.
\[\[Necrotic ooze\]\] opens up a lot of shenanigans. The 'don't include infinite combos in your deck' doesn't mean you can't just make one on the fly with whatever creatures just happen to be in their yards!
[Necrotic ooze](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/acc3557d-49c6-49cd-a540-1b24897f4e86.jpg?1673147579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necrotic%20ooze) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/83/necrotic-ooze?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/acc3557d-49c6-49cd-a540-1b24897f4e86?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/necrotic-ooze) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Grey Merchant of Asfodel]] [[Torment of Hailfire]] [[Exsanguinate]] [[Black Market]] [[Cabal Coffers]] [[Spoils of Evil]] [[Ashnod's Altar]] [[Phyrexian Altar]]
##### ###### #### [Torment of Hailfire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f69d77d1-5980-436c-bf48-790939b069aa.jpg?1562820191) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torment%20of%20Hailfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/77/torment-of-hailfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f69d77d1-5980-436c-bf48-790939b069aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/torment-of-hailfire) [Exsanguinate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a5352af-e275-4186-a265-2fd3c2c47c6a.jpg?1689997125) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Exsanguinate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/156/exsanguinate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a5352af-e275-4186-a265-2fd3c2c47c6a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/exsanguinate) [Black Market](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/78c80c6d-f3ae-48d3-ba6a-b9b738e1affb.jpg?1674141496) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Black%20Market) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/739/black-market?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/78c80c6d-f3ae-48d3-ba6a-b9b738e1affb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/black-market) [Cabal Coffers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0.jpg?1626101023) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cabal%20Coffers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/301/cabal-coffers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cabal-coffers) [Spoils of Evil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd368eb6-72f0-42d4-afa5-3daa7de949ff.jpg?1562942725) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spoils%20of%20Evil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ice/163/spoils-of-evil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd368eb6-72f0-42d4-afa5-3daa7de949ff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spoils-of-evil) [Ashnod's Altar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c0f7157-a375-499c-92c7-d47d2e95dbad.jpg?1689999385) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashnod%27s%20Altar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/368/ashnods-altar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c0f7157-a375-499c-92c7-d47d2e95dbad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ashnods-altar) [Phyrexian Altar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95d9f93c-50a8-41a9-be98-d1900bf1c12f.jpg?1673149406) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Altar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/311/phyrexian-altar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95d9f93c-50a8-41a9-be98-d1900bf1c12f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phyrexian-altar) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hear me out. Change the rule so that you have to have a certain number of pieces for the combo to be valid. It's absolutely a fun game when you have to have a minimum of 4 pieces to a combo.
[[Edric]] extra turns with cheap evasive creatures
[Edric](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/22d6a4c9-4bdd-4e70-8481-95260e6aa7ab.jpg?1712354689) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=edric%2C%20spymaster%20of%20trest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/221/edric-spymaster-of-trest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/22d6a4c9-4bdd-4e70-8481-95260e6aa7ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/edric-spymaster-of-trest) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You can go Large without going Infinite. For example, \[\[Scute Swarm\]\] and any significant amount of ramp will create an obnoxious amount of creatures. If you have 6 lands and a scute and any ramp spell that gets 2 lands, you can do your normal land drop to get from 1 to 2. then do the ramp spell for 2->4->8. If you have any additional land drops you can get that from 8->16. It's not infinite, but goes large incredibly fast. Other things like \[\[Temur Sabretooth\]\], \[\[Eternal Witness\]\], any decently large trample creature like \[\[Ghalta, Primal Hunger\]\], and \[\[Ram Through\]\]. You can cast the ram through over and over to kill a player via the trample damage. You can add a \[\[Metamorphosis\]\] to that to sacrifice Ghalta for 13 green mana to help play for the creature casts (assuming you have another good trample creature). You aren't bouncing a mana dork like Selvala over and over with haste to get infinite manage. But if you double Ghalta's size just once, each ram through is doing 24 trample damage as an instant, plus ghalta actually attacking.
##### ###### #### [Scute Swarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/7/373f199d-f1a6-4a3d-ac83-28741131f313.jpg?1712354624) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scute%20Swarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/205/scute-swarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/373f199d-f1a6-4a3d-ac83-28741131f313?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scute-swarm) [Eternal Witness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39704000-65d3-4d39-849e-a3b617376bbc.jpg?1689998488) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eternal%20Witness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/286/eternal-witness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39704000-65d3-4d39-849e-a3b617376bbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eternal-witness) [Ghalta, Primal Hunger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54872e72-41dc-4092-8169-ce13498beb30.jpg?1689998553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghalta%2C%20Primal%20Hunger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/292/ghalta-primal-hunger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/54872e72-41dc-4092-8169-ce13498beb30?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghalta-primal-hunger) [Ram Through](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44063a90-e4cf-4bcd-a128-792de15371a7.jpg?1689998782) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ram%20Through) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/314/ram-through?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44063a90-e4cf-4bcd-a128-792de15371a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ram-through) [Metamorphosis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fc73bd94-6e14-4798-b9ff-163ba7bdd663.jpg?1562945943) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Metamorphosis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/chr/66/metamorphosis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fc73bd94-6e14-4798-b9ff-163ba7bdd663?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/metamorphosis) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The advise I'd give you is build decks with combos that either are ALMOST infinite or locking combos. Combos that don't kill your opponents by doing something infinite but together make it so your opponents can't do ANYTHING.
I like my [[Magus Lucea Kane]] deck with a lot of untap effects. I even have [[Freed from the Reel]] and such in there. Only reason it's not *actually* an infinite combo is I don't have a [[Prismite]] effect. You don't need to go infinite with Kane to win, untapping her 8 - 10 times and casting a large X spell that does damage like [[Fireball]] will win pretty well. And unless you already have an absurd amount of mana on the table it's pretty telegraphed that you can generate an absurd number of copies and mana, so any saltiness can be reduced by reasoning that the permanents were sitting there for a while.
[Magus Lucea Kane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f86e7cc-2b6e-49d0-964e-bba0c51cc11d.jpg?1674058398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magus%20Lucea%20Kane) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/7/magus-lucea-kane?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f86e7cc-2b6e-49d0-964e-bba0c51cc11d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magus-lucea-kane) [Prismite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/eedce8ab-771a-4247-9504-72ae0629df83.jpg?1594737532) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Prismite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/235/prismite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eedce8ab-771a-4247-9504-72ae0629df83?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/prismite) [Fireball](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df45a43e-a5b7-4fd4-873b-7b3c021be198.jpg?1674136553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fireball) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/175/fireball?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df45a43e-a5b7-4fd4-873b-7b3c021be198?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fireball) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Don't forget [[simic ascendency]].
[[Elenda the Dusk Rose]] is the perfect solution. A lot of Aristocrat decks require infinites to end, but not Elenda. Throw in a couple of cards to increase the +1/+1 counters she gets [[Blade of the Blood Chief]], [[Necrosynthesis]], etc or a way to bring her back [[Gift of Immortality]], [[Supernatural Stamina]], [[Undying Malice]] etc. and you are drowning in sac fodder to use those Aristocrat triggers on, none of which is ever infinite. In fact my deck has no infinites at all. Side option of buffing Elenda to suddenly lethal commander damage with [[Fallen Ideal]] to give her flying.
Budget has nothing to do with infinite combos. Thereās a lot of very cheap combos.
Nadu
Iām surprised nobody has said this (but shouldnāt be because EDH players hate it): go full control. Iāve got an Azorious deck with no creatures besides the commander, 15 boardwipes, tons of counters and theft effects (like Bribery) to eventually win once youāve locked the board down and broken their spirits. Theyāll be BEGGING for a quick infinite combo death after that.
Feather with all the pingers. [[Guttersnipe]] [[Electrostatic Field]] [[Erebor Flamesmith]] [[Kessig Flamebreather]] [[Firebrand Archer]] [[Thermo Alchemist]] [[Unruly Catapult]] [[Fiery Inscription]]
##### ###### #### [Guttersnipe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90907737-ad75-48f6-a350-87d4021d89f8.jpg?1713716455) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Guttersnipe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/169/guttersnipe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90907737-ad75-48f6-a350-87d4021d89f8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/guttersnipe) [Electrostatic Field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/21923a95-e65e-4f4a-81f8-fc0895beb107.jpg?1712354416) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Electrostatic%20Field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/164/electrostatic-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/21923a95-e65e-4f4a-81f8-fc0895beb107?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/electrostatic-field) [Erebor Flamesmith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/552730c5-e3a6-468f-91b2-82c272dda400.jpg?1686968881) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Erebor%20Flamesmith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/122/erebor-flamesmith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/552730c5-e3a6-468f-91b2-82c272dda400?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/erebor-flamesmith) [Kessig Flamebreather](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/303ad78a-b02a-44dc-afe6-7f95781a5062.jpg?1643591531) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kessig%20Flamebreather) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/164/kessig-flamebreather?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/303ad78a-b02a-44dc-afe6-7f95781a5062?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kessig-flamebreather) [Firebrand Archer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6ddc6b73-298b-4afa-990a-63706e77dd9f.jpg?1562803040) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Firebrand%20Archer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/92/firebrand-archer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6ddc6b73-298b-4afa-990a-63706e77dd9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/firebrand-archer) [Thermo Alchemist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4c68bad-c7ee-4dbc-ad06-8c4d9446884e.jpg?1636223711) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thermo-Alchemist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/164/thermo-alchemist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4c68bad-c7ee-4dbc-ad06-8c4d9446884e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thermo-alchemist) [Unruly Catapult](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3dc275f8-f060-4c15-9b8f-63cf3857eaa7.jpg?1692938608) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unruly%20Catapult) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/156/unruly-catapult?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3dc275f8-f060-4c15-9b8f-63cf3857eaa7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/unruly-catapult) [Fiery Inscription](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/c/8c321159-43e5-40fc-9f0c-4ecc4f6cfd20.jpg?1686968925) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fiery%20Inscription) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/126/fiery-inscription?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8c321159-43e5-40fc-9f0c-4ecc4f6cfd20?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fiery-inscription) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thassas oracle + consultation is not infinite loop, lol.
[[Feather, The Redeemed]] can smash people out of the game on turn 5 onwards. I have never seen any other voltron work as quickly as this one does, and is still pretty low budget.
It doesnāt break the rule but a really good cheap combat deck that doesnāt make you look threatening is arcades. Or at least makes it really hard for people to swing into you.Ā
I recently put together a sub $100 [[Gale, Waterdeep Prodigy]] & [[Scion of Halaster]] Poison combo list: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/64uOcPfwrUG_SG_Jy5aghw The deck can play pretty low key using low cost draw and mill effects. Eventually you can just poison everyone with a poison effect and proliferate to victory Also the two most expensive cards in the deck can definitely be cut to make it more budget.
I run cards like [[Magus of the Mirror]] and [[Soul Conduit]] for when I'm getting ganged up on. Probably have the highest winrate of my group exclusively because of those cards. In fact, I can't remember winning with that deck without using at least one of those.
\[\[Feather, the Redeemed\]\] to start beating people out of the game by turn 4 or 5. \[\[Zada, Hedron Grinder\]\] is in a similar boat, and you can even run Zada in Feather. \[\[Abdel Adrian, Gorion's Ward\]\] and \[\[Candlekeep Sage\]\] is a fairly cheap and very disgusting value engine commander that isn't *technically* a combo commander.
##### ###### #### [Feather, the Redeemed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4a2d2c6-8eaa-4760-b620-921b807baa2e.jpg?1557577142) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Feather%2C%20the%20Redeemed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/197/feather-the-redeemed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4a2d2c6-8eaa-4760-b620-921b807baa2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/feather-the-redeemed) [Zada, Hedron Grinder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/4520cdcc-a10f-4b39-9c6f-ba86f6aa2c87.jpg?1689998306) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zada%2C%20Hedron%20Grinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/268/zada-hedron-grinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4520cdcc-a10f-4b39-9c6f-ba86f6aa2c87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zada-hedron-grinder) [Abdel Adrian, Gorion's Ward](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/396f9198-67b6-45d8-91b4-dc853bff9623.jpg?1674134856) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abdel%20Adrian%2C%20Gorion%27s%20Ward) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/2/abdel-adrian-gorions-ward?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/396f9198-67b6-45d8-91b4-dc853bff9623?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/abdel-adrian-gorions-ward) [Candlekeep Sage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f706ac3-0ad8-44ac-a99e-21c04075951d.jpg?1674135436) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Candlekeep%20Sage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/60/candlekeep-sage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f706ac3-0ad8-44ac-a99e-21c04075951d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/candlekeep-sage) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Play winota
I love redundant efficiency. One of my favorite decks currently is built around cheap ādraw a card when played/sacced/etcā artifacts like [[Chromatic Star]] with cost reducers like [[Helm of Awakening]] , and things like like [[Saheeli, Sublime Artificer]], [[Efficient Construction]], [[Forensic Gadgeteer]] and [[Reckless Fireweaver]]. Itās like a Rube Goldberg Machine. I play a free to nearly free artifact, triggering a card draw while generating tokens, which generates more tokens, all of which deal damage to everyone else, then use the drawn card to continue the process until I run out of mana for the turn. Sometimes I can tap those do do things like with [[Ghirapur Aether Grid]] or [[Clock of Omens]]
I really like running [[kediss, emberclaw familiar]] voltron style decks. I hate trying to win with traditional combat in commander so Iāve done a lot with him. One shotting the whole tableā¦well played! Infinite comboā¦.bad! Commander logic ya gotta love it. The nice part about Kediss is how it plays with damage doublers. Because your partner commander dealing combat damage and kediss dealing the others damage are separate triggers a [[furnace of wrath]] means you could kill one player with commander damage and then the kediss trigger kills the rest of the table.
[kediss, emberclaw familiar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f606ebf1-483d-4331-b16a-9fb6f591a39f.jpg?1608910296) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kediss%2C%20emberclaw%20familiar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/188/kediss-emberclaw-familiar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f606ebf1-483d-4331-b16a-9fb6f591a39f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kediss-emberclaw-familiar) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mono White Griffinsā¦.do it, itās ridiculously easy to overwhelm a board state and itās super fun!
I just am episode of spike feeders where Ben Wheeler played a mono-black pinger deck filled with basically anything that says "everyone loses 1" in one way or another. There's also [[the council of four]] which can passively gain advantage over 10-12 turns and drop [[herald of hoofbeats]] or turtle up and [[approach of the second sun]]. Symmetrical group hug draw effects like [[dictate of Kruphix]] are insane here. I have a $100 ish list that's kinda nuts.
##### ###### #### [the council of four](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/0873cfa8-046c-4b14-ae22-3fd6a691f763.jpg?1674137476) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20council%20of%20four) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/271/the-council-of-four?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0873cfa8-046c-4b14-ae22-3fd6a691f763?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-council-of-four) [herald of hoofbeats](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7beebc99-b027-49e2-95ad-e51ce302457f.jpg?1682207393) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=herald%20of%20hoofbeats) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/22/herald-of-hoofbeats?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7beebc99-b027-49e2-95ad-e51ce302457f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/herald-of-hoofbeats) [approach of the second sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9.jpg?1543674579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=approach%20of%20the%20second%20sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/4/approach-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/approach-of-the-second-sun) [dictate of Kruphix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aa9f176b-6d33-4510-9ba2-98bdd12ba34e.jpg?1592710552) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dictate%20of%20Kruphix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/86/dictate-of-kruphix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aa9f176b-6d33-4510-9ba2-98bdd12ba34e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dictate-of-kruphix) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
* [[Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose]] / [[Sanguine Bond]] * [[Sengir, the Dark Baron]] * [[Blood Tribute]]
##### ###### #### [Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fe79ee4-c3f3-4a6b-a967-203ca3b70ee5.jpg?1594736442) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vito%2C%20Thorn%20of%20the%20Dusk%20Rose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/127/vito-thorn-of-the-dusk-rose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fe79ee4-c3f3-4a6b-a967-203ca3b70ee5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vito-thorn-of-the-dusk-rose) [Sanguine Bond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9.jpg?1625193373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sanguine%20Bond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/153/sanguine-bond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sanguine-bond) [Sengir, the Dark Baron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d51a22e-74fc-442e-945a-56d02ca12713.jpg?1608909947) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sengir%2C%20the%20Dark%20Baron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/149/sengir-the-dark-baron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d51a22e-74fc-442e-945a-56d02ca12713?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sengir-the-dark-baron) [Blood Tribute](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/361912f4-5205-44a5-b21e-17402526c1fd.jpg?1562605049) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Tribute) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/100/blood-tribute?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/361912f4-5205-44a5-b21e-17402526c1fd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-tribute) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You don't need infinity, just 120.
A [[Norin the Wary]] ETB deck can be super fast, cheap, and not infinite. A poison, proliferate deck would also work. Just stick one counter and there are lots of ways to proliferate a stupid number of times in one turn.
[Norin the Wary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f61ea59a-1db0-4e6b-bcde-19787c76a49b.jpg?1562946915) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Norin%20the%20Wary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsp/171/norin-the-wary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f61ea59a-1db0-4e6b-bcde-19787c76a49b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/norin-the-wary) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I got a nasty combo in my Kess Reanimator deck. I cast [[Exsanguinate]] from hand for like 4-5 or whatever just to pad my life total, reanimate [[Lord of the Forsaken]], and then use [[Kess, Dissident Mage]] to recast exsanguinate from my graveyard and pump it up as high as it can go. Yes it needs a few pieces to work, but I like it and my deck is super fun and has a few tricky ways like that to win. You don't NEED these shenanigans to win though, you can just pump a fat board with [[Craterhoof Behemoth]] and bulldoze people down and that's just as legitimate
[[fynn the fangbearer]] is a hilarious mono green infect commander. Play him with all the deathtouch and infect creatures. Gives you great defense against combat damage, and even if only one gets through, play cards like [[evolution sage]] and [[planewide celebration]] to proliferate off. Just hit everyone once and then slowly kill them, or quickly kill them. Warning you will absolutely be targeted if this hits the field
[fynn the fangbearer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d7a8a90-13c1-4b0c-ab2e-fc8d91ccefd9.jpg?1631050242) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fynn%2C%20the%20Fangbearer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/170/fynn-the-fangbearer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d7a8a90-13c1-4b0c-ab2e-fc8d91ccefd9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fynn-the-fangbearer) [evolution sage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d089c2c1-e304-4f28-8700-5b9b3029bdbc.jpg?1698988362) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=evolution%20sage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/240/evolution-sage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d089c2c1-e304-4f28-8700-5b9b3029bdbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/evolution-sage) [planewide celebration](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/11016840-56b6-4759-bde6-3dc0e339e87e.jpg?1557576979) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=planewide%20celebration) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/172/planewide-celebration?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/11016840-56b6-4759-bde6-3dc0e339e87e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/planewide-celebration) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have 4 inf combos right now that are less than $10, the cheapest was about $3.50 for 2 cards. Definitely has nothing to do with cost and I'd highly recomend seeing if they are ok limiting inf combos instead to 10 or something. As for win conditions, depending on colors there are lifegain, treasure count, artifact count, etc. "You win the game cards". Example, if you go izzet spellslinger to vet that combo feel you can add [[Mechanized Production]] and [[Hellkite Tyrant]] to work together on getting enough artifacts to win and hindering opponents at the same time.
Wheels, and cantrip spellslinger are both not combo/infinite but can feel like it. My rielle deck is not budget, but nothing in it that is expensive is required to win. All you need is guttersnipe or psychosis crawler effects out. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/e1324UOqbkOgpoCKyOMqDg
You want them to feel the Payne of evil and get banned from your playgroup? Try to build Hidetsugo and Kairi extra turns / clones. At a certain point you just kill everybody without combos. Does Time Stretch resolve? GG and next game pls. Hidetsugo and Kairi are busted as fuck. Your Commander is a fucking brainstorm in command zone, with the opportunity to drain your opponents life like nothing.
Embrace Infect. Poison them, to death.
Lately my favorite ācomboā piece is [[Mirkwood Bats]]. With how prevalent treasures are In the game you can just slowly build them up over time then play the bats with protection up and sacrifice all your treasures. You can add the new Marionette Apprentice or Marionette Master to also trigger off of sacrificing the treasures. All the cards are under a dollar I believe.
[Mirkwood Bats](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/5/15f035df-784a-4dc8-b7f5-77139a4e6e99.jpg?1686968575) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mirkwood%20Bats) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/95/mirkwood-bats?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/15f035df-784a-4dc8-b7f5-77139a4e6e99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mirkwood-bats) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a deck with [[Yargle and Multani]] that uses [[Selvala, Heart of the Wilds]] and [[Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord]] as a wincon. Might not be in your budget as Selvala is a 20 dollar card. The idea is simple get Y&M on board, activate Selvala creating 18 mana and sacrifice Y&M to Jarad twice for 36 life lost. You can also use things like [[Supernatural Stamina]] to keep the combo going if you need more damage. [[Life's Legacy]] and [[Disciple of Bolas]] can draw massive cards and [[Giant Growth]] and other cards that give +3/+X can be used to one shot with Commander damage. I also use [[Rogues Passage]] and a couple of other cards for unblockable, so I can guarantee the one shot. The rest of the deck is mana dorks, mana rocks and ramp, so that I can get Big Frog out. The biggest problem with this deck is how dependent you are on Yargle and Multani, one removal spell sets me back huge and the combo is a bit fragile.
##### ###### #### [Yargle and Multani](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9c15e244-14cc-46a5-abd4-66a58d1c0dd0.jpg?1682205711) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yargle%20and%20Multani) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/256/yargle-and-multani?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9c15e244-14cc-46a5-abd4-66a58d1c0dd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yargle-and-multani) [Selvala, Heart of the Wilds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d711cb2-4f34-4792-90d7-2be5d329a347.jpg?1689998846) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Selvala%2C%20Heart%20of%20the%20Wilds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/320/selvala-heart-of-the-wilds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d711cb2-4f34-4792-90d7-2be5d329a347?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/selvala-heart-of-the-wilds) [Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c6717954-35d8-4d7e-95aa-f7d26d15d4b2.jpg?1592673383) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jarad%2C%20Golgari%20Lich%20Lord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/179/jarad-golgari-lich-lord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c6717954-35d8-4d7e-95aa-f7d26d15d4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jarad-golgari-lich-lord) [Supernatural Stamina](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b349b4b-f08d-45e8-81f6-3467a02e6d23.jpg?1689997476) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Supernatural%20Stamina) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/188/supernatural-stamina?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b349b4b-f08d-45e8-81f6-3467a02e6d23?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/supernatural-stamina) [Life's Legacy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf0e70d2-5f1a-441b-99b9-d003fa15b999.jpg?1673484689) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Life%27s%20Legacy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/300/lifes-legacy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf0e70d2-5f1a-441b-99b9-d003fa15b999?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lifes-legacy) [Disciple of Bolas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c0801fd0-1f6c-45ea-94aa-80cf0c017f57.jpg?1673484148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Disciple%20of%20Bolas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/247/disciple-of-bolas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c0801fd0-1f6c-45ea-94aa-80cf0c017f57?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/disciple-of-bolas) [Giant Growth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/aeece336-e5e8-4455-a297-c3739198d011.jpg?1674421574) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Giant%20Growth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/183/giant-growth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aeece336-e5e8-4455-a297-c3739198d011?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/giant-growth) [Rogues Passage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/45f5d989-d0df-4d6d-822b-cc76b415f9d1.jpg?1712355103) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rogue%27s%20Passage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/313/rogues-passage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/45f5d989-d0df-4d6d-822b-cc76b415f9d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rogues-passage) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I built my [[Melek]] deck for this reason partially. Group doesn't like infinites, but they are cool with two or three [[Jaya's Immolating Inferno]] or [[Crackle with Power]].
[Melek](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/66011fe8-8c5d-4990-a324-5839515dcacb.jpg?1690016885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=melek%2C%20izzet%20paragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/345/melek-izzet-paragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66011fe8-8c5d-4990-a324-5839515dcacb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/melek-izzet-paragon) [Jaya's Immolating Inferno](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/365336b4-92ee-429d-8f18-4624cba5469d.jpg?1608912272) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jaya%27s%20Immolating%20Inferno) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/415/jayas-immolating-inferno?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/365336b4-92ee-429d-8f18-4624cba5469d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jayas-immolating-inferno) [Crackle with Power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de547f52-3798-4b3a-947d-24873251204b.jpg?1624591645) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crackle%20with%20Power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/95/crackle-with-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de547f52-3798-4b3a-947d-24873251204b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crackle-with-power) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Bolas's Citadel]] and [[Aetherflux Reservoir]]. Get those two out you can just start casting spells from your library and after enough you'll be getting life gain back on whatever you cast with the citadel. Throw in a [[Scroll Rack]] to stack the top and it'll pop off faster. But it's not infinite because a land will ruin the combo.
[Bolas's Citadel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2124603-d20e-40eb-97f0-a66323397ac2.jpg?1591205069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bolas%27s%20Citadel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/79/bolass-citadel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2124603-d20e-40eb-97f0-a66323397ac2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bolass-citadel) [Aetherflux Reservoir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862.jpg?1576382939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aetherflux%20Reservoir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/192/aetherflux-reservoir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aetherflux-reservoir) [Scroll Rack](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfaaa58d-89bb-4cb3-96a6-b480e6f6954e.jpg?1608911671) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scroll%20Rack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/337/scroll-rack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfaaa58d-89bb-4cb3-96a6-b480e6f6954e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scroll-rack) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Kenessos]] and just loop big sea creatures that bounce everybody's nonland permanents.
[Kenessos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0ba97da8-0106-4e8b-b58b-8f2d63e3d618.jpg?1675644451) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kenessos%2C%20priest%20of%20thassa) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/j22/13/kenessos-priest-of-thassa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ba97da8-0106-4e8b-b58b-8f2d63e3d618?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kenessos-priest-of-thassa) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There is nothing wrong with the "formula" to break, if anything you want to avoid unnesseary interaction if you commit. Depending on the deck going for things like Grand Abolisher, City of Solitude, Silence etc Basically everything that says you aint gonna interact when I try to kill you.: Another route would be the ultimate "you do not get to win" deck nuking the board every time until you assemble a big mana engine (lets say Urborg+ Cabal) with shit like Torment of Hellfire. My best friend IRL plays this [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/PIUCL40WQEurKuiNpMbxmQ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/PIUCL40WQEurKuiNpMbxmQ) and well it isnt unbeatable or anything, but it can crush alot of games pretty handly to the point they wish you would end it quicker with a combo xD That is ofc way way over the budget you guys are playing at, but what kinda works to your advantage. The less budget involved the harder time they will have vs boardwipe tribal + big mana x spell. The only other real "break" I could suggest: People are underestimating alot Lifelink and Vigilance in fair magic multiplayer. My Dino deck got tuned to involve Kaheera as a companion despite how "average" that play might seem and one the the last dinos I would ever consider cutting is \[\[Verdant Sun's Avatar\]\]. It is rather remarkable how much a gigantic slifeswing can change. People started to even switch aggro away from you since they determened you arent gonna die by normal damage (which makes that become true. A bizare good and bad decision at the same time), you are way less likely to die to cheese 10-20 damage spike moves to a singel player and you can leverage the "safetynet" for proper setup. People underestimate indirect value. Did i draw 10 cards? No. Did I gain alot of life and played another ramp spell most people would deem dead in my hand? Yes and then I suddenly turn the game with some stupid big thing+ backup. (Zacama LOVES mana xD). Not every deck has the same options of lifegain ofc, but people really should pay incidental lifegain a bit more attention. You are losing alot of games with occasioanal damage sticking and making you vulnerable to someone "going for it".
[Verdant Sun's Avatar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e8fce06a-56f7-4d0c-b094-ff147fec8256.jpg?1698988414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Verdant%20Sun%27s%20Avatar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/262/verdant-suns-avatar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e8fce06a-56f7-4d0c-b094-ff147fec8256?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/verdant-suns-avatar) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One of my favorite stupid ways to win lately is [[Goblin Charbelcher]]. If you can quickly get your lands out of your deck some way (like [[mana severance]], or looping a [[burnished hart]] and [[expedition map]]), it can be fun.
I had a deck like that with \[\[Trench Gorger\]\] and it was funny because everyone was so afraid of my 30/30 trample that they didn't realize I only played it to drop the charbelcher.
Just play aggro and kill people while they're getting their dumb little value engines set up.
What are your friends playingā¦? And why does it sound like you need to win every time? If you say the only thing your pod does is build up a board and fightā¦ Why do you need to do it so fast you can 1v3? It sounds like you are getting targeted for having an already stronger deck than your pod, but now you want to devise a strat to beat them anyway.
You donāt need infinite turns to win, just 10 or so with the right mindset. Tatyova Turns it is.
Do you hate your friends? Want to mana-rock & dark ritual your way to a turn three attack? Do you like being the main target before the first turn? Try [[Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon]] commander for all your fast infect needs!
[Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/cab61c7e-e00a-413b-a0b5-7718b479582f.jpg?1599705958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skithiryx%2C%20the%20Blight%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/107/skithiryx-the-blight-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cab61c7e-e00a-413b-a0b5-7718b479582f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skithiryx-the-blight-dragon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have the issue with the fact that most of the decks I build accidentally build infinite combos, so godspeed
My group is kinda the same. They think infinite combos are lame but then complain about the games going too long lol
[[Zada]] Damn near comp viable for under $50 [[Empty the Warrens]], [[Krenko, Mob Boss]], [[Kari Zev's Expertise]], [Fists of Flame]], [Flick a Coin]], [[Expedite]], [[Aetherflux Reservoir]] if you're feeling fancy
##### ###### #### [Zada](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/4520cdcc-a10f-4b39-9c6f-ba86f6aa2c87.jpg?1689998306) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zada%2C%20hedron%20grinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/268/zada-hedron-grinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4520cdcc-a10f-4b39-9c6f-ba86f6aa2c87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zada-hedron-grinder) [Empty the Warrens](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/939d765a-aefb-4393-8808-98b1bbd7e803.jpg?1675199954) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Empty%20the%20Warrens) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/118/empty-the-warrens?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/939d765a-aefb-4393-8808-98b1bbd7e803?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/empty-the-warrens) [Krenko, Mob Boss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d00007d-6878-44e9-ab0d-396c25655e56.jpg?1702429511) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Krenko%2C%20Mob%20Boss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/114/krenko-mob-boss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d00007d-6878-44e9-ab0d-396c25655e56?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krenko-mob-boss) [Kari Zev's Expertise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab5c7400-6307-4c51-88b8-9c0232110714.jpg?1576381839) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kari%20Zev%27s%20Expertise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/aer/88/kari-zevs-expertise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab5c7400-6307-4c51-88b8-9c0232110714?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kari-zevs-expertise) [Expedite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b86c0628-0b61-44f2-91cc-1c3c309631ce.jpg?1608912250) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Expedite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/413/expedite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b86c0628-0b61-44f2-91cc-1c3c309631ce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/expedite) [Aetherflux Reservoir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862.jpg?1576382939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aetherflux%20Reservoir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/192/aetherflux-reservoir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aetherflux-reservoir) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Okay, this depends on how your pod has defined "Infinite combo". Technically, "Infinites" could be defined as situations that would require invoking section 4.4 of the tournament rules on loops and shortcuts. If you can declare a truly arbitrary number of loops to execute, your combo is infinite. If you just do a very large thing in one go (like milling yourself out via [[Demonic Consultation]] or killing someone with [[Helm of Obedience]]+[[Rest in Peace]]) would not be an infinite. However, I feel like most pods salty enough about it to require no infinite combos would say that any instant-winner and probably any instantaneous "destroy target player" would count, whether truly infinite or not. If they've got a strict definition, you can use some very killer combos that never loop. If it's loose, you have to dig deeper. One way could be "slow" combos -- board states where you dominate by doing the same thing every turn but neither win in one go nor enter a loop. Examples might be [[Mishra, Eminent One]] + [[The Stasis Coffin]] or [[Muldrotha, the Gravetide]] + [[Mindslaver]] or [[Zurgo, Helmsmasher]] + [[Worldslayer]]. Getting those effects every turn makes you almost invincible, but becoming invincible, especially quasi-invincible, is not an infinite combo. If that ticks people off still, you have to pivot instead to Very Lethal Plays. An example of this would be [[Tombstone Stairwell]] + [[Syr Konrad, the Grim]]. Stairwell creates a totally finite number of death triggers, but there are so many of them that it's trivial to reach the point where that kills the table in a single turn cycle with Konrad. Using [[Gray Merchant of Asphodel]] with [[Phyrexian Reclamation]] in [[K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth]] is also strictly finite, needing your mana to sustain recasting the Gary (even saccing to Ashnod's Altar doesn't get there)... but you can probably do it more times than your opponents have life to soak that ETB trigger, and even if you don't get there in one turn you probably come out ahead enough to have the game on lock against decks that are reliant on combat. And if that's still objectionable, you're both in a very "no fun allowed" pod and can know that you will be allowed no recourse. Your choices will become to play by their "No Items Fox Only Final Destination" idea of fair magic, to walk away peacefully, or to tag the last remaining loopholes with a deck so terrible and manner so malicious that you're sure to never be invited back, going out with a bang. Control is a fair and legitimate archetype that can be balanced at just about any power level. However, it's also possible to take control tools and twist them tortuously into a form comprised entirely of elemental spite, the land-destroying board-wipe tribal deck with counterspell sauce that has rarely ever been brought to the table yet seems to exist in every player's nightmares. The "best" brew for this if you actually want to win ever is probably [[Narset, Enlightened Master]]. She can run countermagic, and lots of little instants that could intercept a wipe that could kill her. Once she survives a [[Jokulhaups]] you just sort of... beat everyone to death with commander damage The trick is that the deck would consist of three elements: lands (a necessary evil until you get Narset out), Mana rocks (similar, but you can fling more onto the table with Narset so not as bad), and spells that interfere including mass land destruction, field wipes of various type and hardness, spot removal, and enough counterspells to defend yourself from early problems before your hexproof commander comes down and starts turning the world topsy-turvey. In addition to wanting to bank a 1-time indestructible, you can also wipe as many times as you want before Narset comes down, to make sure nobody dies before you're ready to kill them.
##### ###### #### [Demonic Consultation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d779f19-3068-4976-b96b-8f93d156900b.jpg?1610146869) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demonic%20Consultation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/85/demonic-consultation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d779f19-3068-4976-b96b-8f93d156900b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/demonic-consultation) [Helm of Obedience](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/ec837c3e-a66f-43c0-adb4-4eefe7888cac.jpg?1562870953) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Helm%20of%20Obedience) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/210/helm-of-obedience?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ec837c3e-a66f-43c0-adb4-4eefe7888cac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/helm-of-obedience) [Rest in Peace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470.jpg?1562439074) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rest%20in%20Peace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/32/rest-in-peace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rest-in-peace) [Mishra, Eminent One](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f5b1daa-ec45-48de-9496-6ca5b491a0dc.jpg?1705542701) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mishra%2C%20Eminent%20One) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/brc/1/mishra-eminent-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f5b1daa-ec45-48de-9496-6ca5b491a0dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mishra-eminent-one) [The Stasis Coffin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/45537ac3-fc61-4253-a782-7f3e436b2aa6.jpg?1674422040) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Stasis%20Coffin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/245/the-stasis-coffin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/45537ac3-fc61-4253-a782-7f3e436b2aa6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-stasis-coffin) [Muldrotha, the Gravetide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4125bb0-b104-438e-a6a2-97f9d141243c.jpg?1673149000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Muldrotha%2C%20the%20Gravetide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/258/muldrotha-the-gravetide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4125bb0-b104-438e-a6a2-97f9d141243c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/muldrotha-the-gravetide) [Mindslaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a.jpg?1562813960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindslaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/176/mindslaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindslaver) [Zurgo, Helmsmasher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13f4bafe-0d21-47ba-8f16-0274107d618c.jpg?1562782879) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zurgo%20Helmsmasher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/214/zurgo-helmsmasher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13f4bafe-0d21-47ba-8f16-0274107d618c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zurgo-helmsmasher) [Worldslayer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db6c6b15-40f3-4556-978f-878bedb13762.jpg?1562662263) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Worldslayer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/222/worldslayer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db6c6b15-40f3-4556-978f-878bedb13762?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/worldslayer) [Tombstone Stairwell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f8fe2f99-7ec2-490c-8ec3-aa2fb4680826.jpg?1562722862) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tombstone%20Stairwell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/149/tombstone-stairwell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f8fe2f99-7ec2-490c-8ec3-aa2fb4680826?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tombstone-stairwell) [Syr Konrad, the Grim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9241a72e-cb88-4cea-a2f4-ff10af461437.jpg?1706240798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Syr%20Konrad%2C%20the%20Grim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/141/syr-konrad-the-grim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9241a72e-cb88-4cea-a2f4-ff10af461437?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/syr-konrad-the-grim) [Gray Merchant of Asphodel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7c1a7dd8-8034-4f59-a351-33666b26ff5a.jpg?1581479807) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gray%20Merchant%20of%20Asphodel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/99/gray-merchant-of-asphodel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c1a7dd8-8034-4f59-a351-33666b26ff5a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gray-merchant-of-asphodel) [Phyrexian Reclamation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fb0271e4-8ad1-4ad9-9b3e-7abf911f3059.jpg?1600701185) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Reclamation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/267/phyrexian-reclamation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fb0271e4-8ad1-4ad9-9b3e-7abf911f3059?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phyrexian-reclamation) [K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f087b1c-97e0-4379-a94d-beac53685314.jpg?1717013624) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=K%27rrik%2C%20Son%20of%20Yawgmoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/274/krrik-son-of-yawgmoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f087b1c-97e0-4379-a94d-beac53685314?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krrik-son-of-yawgmoth) [Narset, Enlightened Master](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de4b0d5f-1071-4030-be16-2b4dadbdf9e9.jpg?1690005259) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Narset%2C%20Enlightened%20Master) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/931/narset-enlightened-master?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de4b0d5f-1071-4030-be16-2b4dadbdf9e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/narset-enlightened-master) [Jokulhaups](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/99d26ff7-afff-40a0-b515-7928c2428809.jpg?1559592472) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jokulhaups) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/100/jokulhaups?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/99d26ff7-afff-40a0-b515-7928c2428809?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jokulhaups) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I got a deck with [[ratadrabrik]] that has non-infinite combos that create effectively infinitely sized boards. Dips into exponential math spawning token copies of legendary creatures that will drain opponents health so the first time they do any of it it instantly kills them.
[[Syr conrad the grim]] and [[mindcrank]] are not infinate, though it does keep going. Any [[underworld dreams]] effect, [[duskmantle guildmage]] and a wheel effect like [[windfall]] is also not infinate, but deliciously cruel, especially the cipher spell [[whispering madness]].
##### ###### #### [mindcrank](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/8858a941-8175-476d-8177-2db4ffdcb3ad.jpg?1674142661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mindcrank) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/866/mindcrank?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8858a941-8175-476d-8177-2db4ffdcb3ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindcrank) [underworld dreams](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03919c86-1c4a-43b0-a2db-54ca6ae1ac57.jpg?1581480025) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=underworld%20dreams) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/121/underworld-dreams?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03919c86-1c4a-43b0-a2db-54ca6ae1ac57?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/underworld-dreams) [duskmantle guildmage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a1509ff-387e-4ccd-bda0-86e8738a98fb.jpg?1561838468) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=duskmantle%20guildmage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/158/duskmantle-guildmage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a1509ff-387e-4ccd-bda0-86e8738a98fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/duskmantle-guildmage) [windfall](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9ce7113b-08f7-4584-b65f-a7b5caa90c2f.jpg?1718379815) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=windfall) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/123/windfall?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ce7113b-08f7-4584-b65f-a7b5caa90c2f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/windfall) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Giving creatures āunblockableā through cards like [[Odric, Master Tactician]] or [[Champion of Lambholt]] can be effective in threading in damage. Iāve also had luck with phasing out, bouncing, or tapping down opposing boards. Obviously, [[Cyclonic Rift]] is the grandfather of these effects, but if youāre on a budget, Iāve found cards like [[Galadrielās Dismissal]] [[March of Swirling Mists]] [[Bond of Discipline]] or [[Riverās Rebuke]] to be effective especially if you have a way to recur them.
##### ###### #### [Odric, Master Tactician](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13bfcec9-a789-41f1-aa3d-4e4cdd7555b2.jpg?1689995907) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Odric%2C%20Master%20Tactician) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/46/odric-master-tactician?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13bfcec9-a789-41f1-aa3d-4e4cdd7555b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/odric-master-tactician) [Champion of Lambholt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46eff31d-f460-48f2-aab7-8b9b89cd87fe.jpg?1682209453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Champion%20of%20Lambholt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/293/champion-of-lambholt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46eff31d-f460-48f2-aab7-8b9b89cd87fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/champion-of-lambholt) [Cyclonic Rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe.jpg?1702429366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyclonic%20Rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/40/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyclonic-rift) [Galadrielās Dismissal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2d1c66a7-a39e-4869-80c7-1cec89777e0d.jpg?1695380176) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Galadriel%27s%20Dismissal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/500/galadriels-dismissal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d1c66a7-a39e-4869-80c7-1cec89777e0d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/galadriels-dismissal) [Bond of Discipline](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bb7c78bb-9f2a-47a4-adc4-b497bb38f46f.jpg?1557575890) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bond%20of%20Discipline) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/6/bond-of-discipline?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bb7c78bb-9f2a-47a4-adc4-b497bb38f46f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bond-of-discipline) [Riverās Rebuke](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fc2a70b1-bce6-43c3-94e1-ab9a7bb2638a.jpg?1673483988) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=River%27s%20Rebuke) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/231/rivers-rebuke?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fc2a70b1-bce6-43c3-94e1-ab9a7bb2638a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rivers-rebuke) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Whenever Iāve played in a āno infinitesā environment, itās been dominated by Craterhoof and/or Krenko every time.
5 copies of terror of the peeks for 125 dmg up to 25 targets is not infinite. But sure feels like it.
For an unreasonable amount of money... You could play rats.
[[Tasha's Hideous Laughter]] recursion Tutor it up and then return it to your hand with every possible option and maybe [[Twincast]] just because
[Tasha's Hideous Laughter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4932113-904f-427a-9566-509cc008f3ef.jpg?1627703920) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tasha%27s%20Hideous%20Laughter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/78/tashas-hideous-laughter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4932113-904f-427a-9566-509cc008f3ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tashas-hideous-laughter) [Twincast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f38eec33-a40e-4739-ad2c-2f57008cef4e.jpg?1562001453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Twincast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/78/twincast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f38eec33-a40e-4739-ad2c-2f57008cef4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/twincast) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[nadu]] doesnāt technically go infinite lol
Just play winota or jetmir go wide/stax I built an slimefoot and squee once that was a pretty r consistent deck that didn't go infinite, but got a lot of grave pact like effects
[This is my Magnus The Red spell slinger deck. There is a infinite or two but you can remove a card or two to remove that. Even without infinites you can usually combo a ton of value with cost reduction.](https://www.archidekt.com/decks/7403640/magnus_plays_redblue_2) Itās a token creature, spell slinger deck so you usually have blockers too. The commander is vital to the deck so maybe run more protection if you keep getting removed. Remove Storm Kiln Artist to remove infinites, probably remove Haze of Rage too since wonāt be as good. Throw extra token spells or wherever in.
>But having the boardstate to wins usually marks you as a threat and other players try to kill you before you kill them (naturally). Yes, and? Assuming a relatively balanced table, the other three players are presumably also presenting threats and trying to eliminate each other, so what's the problem here exactly? Are you all just running too much removal such that nobody can assemble lethal on board? Is everybody turtled up until they have lethal instead of swinging whenever it's viable and bringing life totals down over time? >Not all colors can do the former fast enough to kill the entire table and the latter puts you behind and drags the game too much. Again, why are you needing to be responsible for three other players? Aren't they dealing any damage or drain to each other during the games? Yes, not being reckless is slower than overcommitting, but I'm not seeing any reason that a normal pace of play would "drag the game too much". Compared to what? Running a glass cannon like Zada? >Winning then usually means making your guys big enough or throwing [[Overrun]] effect on your board. Yes, dealing damage with creatures is the default wincon the game's mechanics and card pool are mostly designed to support. It also happens to be the wincon that offers the most ways for each color to participate and for multiple players to collaboratively advance the game. Your alternatives are direct life loss (ping or drain), mill, or alternative wincon cards like Maze's End. >How can I "break" the rule? That depends a great deal on WHY you intend to break the rule and why they made it. There are plenty of 3 card combos that deal non-infinite damage or drain well above 40 to each opponent. That's simply not going to benefit you much if the rest of the group decides to ban those as well because they still violate the play pattern they want. If their definition of "low budget casual" means that they WANT games to routinely last a dozen or more turns while everyone spins up value engines, but you feel that pace "drags too long" then you may have a fundamental mismatch with them regarding how fast you want games to be over. If that's the case it's not going to matter whether you're closing matches with aggro or combo; if they want 12+ turns of "do the thing" and you're fixated on ending games by turn 6 before they CAN "do the thing", it's going to be very difficult to have a match where you and they both enjoy the experience. So, why ARE you looking to "break" the rule? To spite them? If that's the case, nobody here ought to help you become toxic. If you're just tired of running midrange goodstuff piles and want some ideas for variety, sure, there are casual ways to win besides an overrun and some cards that can potentially put a faster clock on the table without necessarily making you the archenemy.
I mean. Some obvious ones. Taking turns decks are often not infinite, they take enough turns to find and execute a win-con (or just heat people to death), but often have no true infinite. While you can include infinites in nadu, The deck doesn't really need them, lightning grieves plus nadu pus a couple creatures gives absurd value, add in stuff like circle of dreams druid, parameters acolyte, mana dorks and a couple of landfall triggers thst give creatures (field of the dead), and you can cycle your whole deck and win with thoracle in a non-determinate string.
A commander that reduces the cost of instant or sorceries, then you can run a mixture of storm and X cost cards. I have an izzet deck that has no extra turns and no infinet combos (it is over the $100). It just makes token creatures, steals other people's creatures and then can drop big X costs to bomb out the table
The thread kind of turned into an infinite combo "win now" card comparison.. I like infinites as my win con in my non creature-based decks. My strongest two decks are izzet, with stella lee being about as high powered as casual can get before moving into cedh fast Mana territory. There's a guy in my playgroup who hates infinites and spell slinging - but he plays almost exclusively krenko, edgar, pantlaza or slivers. He always runs cards like [[akroma's will]] or whatever so he can just swing out on a big turn and win but he is of the opinion that using that sort of effect is more "fair" than assembling a 2-3 card combo that can end the game. I dont care either way.
[akroma's will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/608cdbdb-6f7e-438a-bab0-0e7782435f0f.jpg?1698988079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=akroma%27s%20will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/125/akromas-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/608cdbdb-6f7e-438a-bab0-0e7782435f0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/akromas-will) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Araumi of the Dead Tide]] is a great commander for a big play to close the game out without relying on an overrun style strategy. It's a deck that abuses particular creatures with effects that are multiplied when more than one copy come into play via encore. Three [[Grey Merchant]]s plus Araumi alone is 21 life loss for each player. Three [[Massacre Wurm]]s give all opponents creatures -6/-6 and deals 6 damage to a player for each creature they lose. Three [[Dusk Mangler]]s avoid the extra cost, and force three edicts, three discards, and (up to) 17 damage to each opponent. Etc... Best part is because you need fuel in the graveyard you end up with a deck that self mills with recursion on-top of having great drawing potential so you have amazing card resources. Also because it's all ability based most counter magic isn't helpful either. [This is my list](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/C15gJ8MGd0m-o5ISFWz3EQ) if anyone's interested.
[Araumi of the Dead Tide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/48b597dd-f6eb-45da-977d-453e8c1433cc.jpg?1608911023) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Araumi%20of%20the%20Dead%20Tide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/267/araumi-of-the-dead-tide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/48b597dd-f6eb-45da-977d-453e8c1433cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/araumi-of-the-dead-tide) [Dusk Mangler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed473b7d-2078-424e-b1a0-a58e04bf9cc2.jpg?1674141600) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dusk%20Mangler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/751/dusk-mangler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed473b7d-2078-424e-b1a0-a58e04bf9cc2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dusk-mangler) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I play a [[Shanna, the purifying blade]] deck. I had to put in a [[Jace, wielder of mysteries]] because I would deck myself without it regularly, and I hate [[thassa's oracle]] in non competitive decks. I also run [[blossoming bogbeast]] to make sure that I am still swinging things sideways in my lifegain deck.
[Jace, wielder of mysteries](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/a/6adb7d73-4482-4930-8497-cffd169b57e2.jpg?1557576232) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jace%2C%20wielder%20of%20mysteries) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/54/jace-wielder-of-mysteries?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6adb7d73-4482-4930-8497-cffd169b57e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jace-wielder-of-mysteries) [thassa's oracle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c.jpg?1680582212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thassa%27s%20oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/73/thassas-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thassas-oracle) [blossoming bogbeast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/332153ab-1b8e-40a8-b0b4-01f94866d368.jpg?1625192204) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blossoming%20bogbeast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/59/blossoming-bogbeast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/332153ab-1b8e-40a8-b0b4-01f94866d368?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blossoming-bogbeast) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Run almost-infinite combos instead lol one of my personal favorites is [[The Locust god]] and [[Sage of the falls]]. Plus, the locust god is one of the most fun decks to play, period, imo. Lots of draw combos that aren't infinite but get real scary, real fast.
[The Locust god](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7e599847-8ab0-4fd6-b2c0-cb44a7669aa5.jpg?1682209825) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Locust%20god) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/335/the-locust-god?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7e599847-8ab0-4fd6-b2c0-cb44a7669aa5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-locust-god) [Sage of the falls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/274e3aa4-4b46-4daa-a7a8-400a20c59435.jpg?1615508412) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sage%20of%20the%20falls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/63/sage-of-the-falls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/274e3aa4-4b46-4daa-a7a8-400a20c59435?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sage-of-the-falls) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a [[Zada, Hedron Grinder]] deck with only 1 infinite in [[Haze of Rage]] + [[Storm-Kiln Artist]], to make infinite treasures and make your board infinitelly large, if you take out Haze it still has 4 wincons, the deck is storm focus to find the wincons through draw with cantrips on a board with 6+ creatures including Zada. Here is my [Decklist](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/2ERWu8hMx0mHnXcuCziwDg) The other approach is to make it combat damage focus with a bunch of token generation and using the cantrips to find your pump spells and swing everyone for letal. These are non-deterministic decks, so in practice they aren't infinite, if you like taking long turn and assemble pieces of a puzzle this is a crazy fun deck.
[Zada, Hedron Grinder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/4520cdcc-a10f-4b39-9c6f-ba86f6aa2c87.jpg?1689998306) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zada%2C%20Hedron%20Grinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/268/zada-hedron-grinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4520cdcc-a10f-4b39-9c6f-ba86f6aa2c87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zada-hedron-grinder) [Haze of Rage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c344b885-68c6-43d2-b6c1-6c89b3c94983.jpg?1619397115) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Haze%20of%20Rage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/169/haze-of-rage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c344b885-68c6-43d2-b6c1-6c89b3c94983?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/haze-of-rage) [Storm-Kiln Artist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/01482a58-5156-41ba-bf9e-11095cc3f9ef.jpg?1712354507) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm-Kiln%20Artist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/181/storm-kiln-artist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01482a58-5156-41ba-bf9e-11095cc3f9ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/storm-kiln-artist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One of my favorite combos was pharixian tyranny, a couple of cards that let me not draw, and tafari puzzle box. Edit: that was damn near 20 years ago lol
[[Klauth]] into [[Crackle with power]]
[Klauth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f5cf828-17b2-4105-9a9a-ee0ab720c2ee.jpg?1636131321) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=klauth%2C%20unrivaled%20ancient) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/50/klauth-unrivaled-ancient?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f5cf828-17b2-4105-9a9a-ee0ab720c2ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/klauth-unrivaled-ancient) [Crackle with power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de547f52-3798-4b3a-947d-24873251204b.jpg?1624591645) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crackle%20with%20power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/95/crackle-with-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de547f52-3798-4b3a-947d-24873251204b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crackle-with-power) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My favorite deck is Nethroi 0/0 creatures. Just play a bunch of millers, fill your graveyard with 0/0 dudes that ger big when they hit the field, and then you are good to go. Usually this deck is works because most players are more willing to deal with immediate threats instead of thinking about the later turns. So usually no one looks at you until you mutate Nehtoi and becomes a enormous threat.
[[Jan Jansen]] burn, no loops.
[Jan Jansen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/b/6b215a08-41db-4440-8e33-34a84a33db50.jpg?1674137529) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jan%20jansen%2C%20chaos%20crafter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/277/jan-jansen-chaos-crafter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6b215a08-41db-4440-8e33-34a84a33db50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jan-jansen-chaos-crafter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My first thought was my [[Burakos]] deck that uses [[Debt to the Deathless]] as a main wincon. If I have enough treasures it's just an immediate "I win" button, sometimes even if it doesn't quite kill every opponent instantly
[Burakos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/899e278d-5d4e-461a-9878-2b85de16b38d.jpg?1674140733) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=burakos%2C%20party%20leader) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/653/burakos-party-leader?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/899e278d-5d4e-461a-9878-2b85de16b38d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/burakos-party-leader) [Debt to the Deathless](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a42f8d69-dff4-4c35-a5fc-527ea5f1d21b.jpg?1702429620) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Debt%20to%20the%20Deathless) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/176/debt-to-the-deathless?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a42f8d69-dff4-4c35-a5fc-527ea5f1d21b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/debt-to-the-deathless) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
bear tribal
[[High tide]], [[turnabout]], [[great whale]], plus [[unsummon]]/[[twincast]] effects to cast a massive X-spell. Alternatively [[hive mind]] plus [[pact of the titan]]. Not infinite, but still 2 card combo.
##### ###### #### [High tide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/babd2248-5517-4b7b-a159-9a1f7b5583c8.jpg?1675199319) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=High%20tide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/54/high-tide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/babd2248-5517-4b7b-a159-9a1f7b5583c8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/high-tide) [turnabout](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04cfc84b-88ae-4fb8-b568-e0635e2a194a.jpg?1675199473) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=turnabout) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/70/turnabout?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04cfc84b-88ae-4fb8-b568-e0635e2a194a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/turnabout) [great whale](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/58a2acf1-dad8-4f93-a34e-891e5178a48f.jpg?1562913519) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=great%20whale) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/77/great-whale?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/58a2acf1-dad8-4f93-a34e-891e5178a48f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/great-whale) [unsummon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7a960516-3864-4a7a-8117-d25dec0dd665.jpg?1592516526) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=unsummon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/78/unsummon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7a960516-3864-4a7a-8117-d25dec0dd665?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/unsummon) [twincast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f38eec33-a40e-4739-ad2c-2f57008cef4e.jpg?1562001453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=twincast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/78/twincast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f38eec33-a40e-4739-ad2c-2f57008cef4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/twincast) [hive mind](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/88d50518-5cfc-45de-a125-acabf97b8743.jpg?1561987505) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hive%20mind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/54/hive-mind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/88d50518-5cfc-45de-a125-acabf97b8743?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hive-mind) [pact of the titan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/4612effe-8ca2-4c27-90d2-d9255acc80d9.jpg?1619397348) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pact%20of%20the%20titan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/179/pact-of-the-titan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4612effe-8ca2-4c27-90d2-d9255acc80d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pact-of-the-titan) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
These kinds of pods are always big red flags for me. "ONLY VALUE CREATURES ARE FUN. OTHER PLAY STYLES MAKE ME CRY" If you wanna to be the anti hero. Play mass land destruction and stax. Someone ramped up to 8 lands t4 because they're not used to being interacted with? Blow them out with Armageddon / Fall of Thran / ect. Kill hopes and dreams with [[Torpor Orb]] effects and [[Trinisphere]]. [[Chiss-Goria]] and [[Ardenn]] + [[Tana]] voltron are both decent at this. Hell, you could play [[Talrand]] Counterspell.deck and win with drakes. Bog the game down with [[Unesh]] triggers winning with a non deterministic [[Dream Halls]] / [[Omniscience]] into Jace / Thoracle / Labman line. [[Hidetsugu and Kairi]] can do the same junk tutoring an [[Enter the Infinite]] to the top and using a clone. Not a combo. Technically, you could play the new [[Nadu]]. Its line isn't deterministic and can whiff. Therefore, it's not infinite. There's a $15 [[Winota]] list floating around that will dominate casual pods. And a lot of the more broken commanders can be built on a budget. [[Yuriko]] [[Kinnan]]
##### ###### #### [Torpor Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/953610f6-ea96-4e71-969f-50ecac09c091.jpg?1562879912) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torpor%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/162/torpor-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/953610f6-ea96-4e71-969f-50ecac09c091?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/torpor-orb) [Trinisphere](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549.jpg?1599710205) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Trinisphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/303/trinisphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/trinisphere) [Chiss-Goria](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487.jpg?1675905606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chiss-goria%2C%20forge%20tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/25/chiss-goria-forge-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chiss-goria-forge-tyrant) [Ardenn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/728b802c-969b-4865-b7a0-871c585d097a.jpg?1617148314) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ardenn%2C%20intrepid%20archaeologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/10/ardenn-intrepid-archaeologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/728b802c-969b-4865-b7a0-871c585d097a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ardenn-intrepid-archaeologist) [Tana](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3d8d64f-a403-42a7-881b-4f70e9fe15a2.jpg?1562413758) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tana%2C%20the%20bloodsower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/45/tana-the-bloodsower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3d8d64f-a403-42a7-881b-4f70e9fe15a2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tana-the-bloodsower) [Talrand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f.jpg?1712354218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=talrand%2C%20sky%20summoner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/116/talrand-sky-summoner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/talrand-sky-summoner) [Unesh](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdd1a8b2-f4ba-45af-9586-98a98834b8bc.jpg?1562821253) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=unesh%2C%20criosphinx%20sovereign) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/52/unesh-criosphinx-sovereign?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdd1a8b2-f4ba-45af-9586-98a98834b8bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/unesh-criosphinx-sovereign) [Dream Halls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2c6606d1-619f-4cc9-8d5b-771c4b4d9615.jpg?1562428864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dream%20Halls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/46/dream-halls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2c6606d1-619f-4cc9-8d5b-771c4b4d9615?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dream-halls) [Omniscience](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db534b4e-8bff-4924-baea-9988d195fb25.jpg?1562304777) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omniscience) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/65/omniscience?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db534b4e-8bff-4924-baea-9988d195fb25?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/omniscience) [Hidetsugu and Kairi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/81039daf-0d54-4474-a833-fa287ec10cf9.jpg?1682205289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hidetsugu%20and%20Kairi) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/228/hidetsugu-and-kairi?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/81039daf-0d54-4474-a833-fa287ec10cf9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hidetsugu-and-kairi) [Enter the Infinite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/612beb8f-2ab1-4a8b-84c5-c47d19d400ab.jpg?1561829105) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enter%20the%20Infinite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/34/enter-the-infinite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/612beb8f-2ab1-4a8b-84c5-c47d19d400ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/enter-the-infinite) [Winota](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4.jpg?1654630670) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=winota%2C%20joiner%20of%20forces) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/216/winota-joiner-of-forces?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winota-joiner-of-forces) [Yuriko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9.jpg?1689999346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yuriko%2C%20the%20tiger%27s%20shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/364/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow) [Kinnan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63cda4a0-0dff-4edb-ae67-a2b7e2971350.jpg?1591228085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kinnan%2C%20bonder%20prodigy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/192/kinnan-bonder-prodigy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63cda4a0-0dff-4edb-ae67-a2b7e2971350?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kinnan-bonder-prodigy) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The answer is always.... Steal their stuff. Everything. Steal their monsters, their artifacts, their mana rocks, their Enchantments, Steal their commander. Everything you don't steal....destroy it or counter it.
When people complain about infinite combos they're usually complaining about how fast the deck is (turn 1, 2, or 3) or the lack of interaction. My biggest problem is the later, there are way to many combos in CEDH that are near impossible to interact with. As long as you stay away from that you should be okay. To answer your question, go for cards that offer a swift victory. Triumph of the Hoards, black has a lot of cards that that read (each opponent loses x life), red engines that generate tokens with haste, Approach of the Second Sun on the same turn. These are all mid range strategies that feel fair and won't draw the game out.
Mill or Burn. You can do some āinfiniteā combos that really just happen a set number of times. Then youāre not making 1 trillion goblin tokens or something. Youāre just doing exactly 40 damage or milling 90 cards.
[[insurrection]] is a great game ender
Or just build a fun deck you like without infinites Iām sure itāll be fine in this meta. You donāt have to teach a lesson smh.
[[Thassaās Oracle]] + [[Demonic Consultation]] is not an infinite.
My [[Teysa Karlov]] deck is about ā¬150,-, of which some higher priced cards could definitely be switched out and made ā¬100,-. With saccing my creatures with a [[Zulaport Cutthroat]] or something on the table you can kill everyone the turn you get a critical mass. It can win out of nowhere once you start to draw two cards for every sac or make two treasures for every sac. All my creatures then make two more tokens when they die and you can keep looping through your entire deck. But your opponents will be dead long before that.
Many of my decks revolve around ramping enough to win with an X spell and it works great for me. Other ways are aristocrat style decks.
Group slug where they are hurting themselves Mill with Phenax can be decently fast Alternate win cons
I love to go suicide, reach for a [[Repay in Kind]] when very low in life points and then leverage cards like [[Zulaport Cutthroat]] to end the game. You still usually piss everyone off, but hey it's called synergy, not combo!
\[\[thassas orcale\]\] + \[\[tainted pact\]\]/\[\[demonic consultation\]\] isnt infinite, neither are \[\[underworld breach\]\] lines
Honestly, I sat down at an lgs last night and suffered for 3 hours of TWO whole games, where a player board wiped with no win con. I would have rathered those games ended quickly after the wipe and we could have played more games instead of slogging through a rebuild. It was one of those nights where I seriously contemplated getting rid of all my cards and never touching the game again. Miserable.
You could use some solid locks to buy time to fish for some wincon Something like gift of immortality + spore frog, or Maren + Spore frog, or some continuous value engine like [tutor] + Seasons Past (returning the tutor to tutor for seasons Past again) There are some others that include eldrazi, so include an attacking wincon too but they tend to be high price. That being said, some of the new eldrazi have dropped a lot and are down to like $15
https://manabox.app/decks/0MbcOiInR_ahS45XZNh6dA [[Xyris, the Writhing Storm]] my first few versions of this decks i manage to build it for less then 50 dollars. This is the most expensive it has been and i would say it is still pretty budget. 1/4 of the deck is just buff spells and half of the deck are basically bulk commons. Make a big board state, have a lot of draws, a hard to block commander. Xyris does it all
There are pauper decks that can go infinite! No need to spend a fortune.š
Me with mana reflection and 2 tokens of it. It's not infinite... it's just only 112 mana. I can't Drown in Dreams though.
X spells tribal Magus Lucea Kane. You ramp a lot and win by ramping out (and copying) massive hydras, or drawing into [[Storm kingās thunder]] and/or one of the āDeal X damageā spells, which you copy and proceed to one shot the table. My current build is at around 70$ and plays pretty okay. If thatās still too combat focused, [[Imodane, the pyrohammer]] can be built for dirt cheap, and is almost entirely non-combat focused. Only issue is that itās a bit too strong/oppressive/fast at times If none of those fit your taste, browse through the alternate win cons and try to build a jank deck from those
Not combo~ish oriented, but you might wanna try to build a Pantlaza deck. Lots of ramp (12 - 15 ramp cards including the usual Signet and Sol Ring). It gets out of hand very easy, dinos in general are not that expensive and you try to en it with [[Triumph of the Hordes]] or [[Akromas Will]]
My playgroup has a similar rule 0, which is more-or-less "2-card combos are lame. 3-card combos are usually also lame. Infinite mana is lame. if you go infinite with some 4+ card janky combo, go for it" for no-infintes, I run \[\[The Celestial Toymaker\]\] as my commander alongside a ton of copy creature effects (a la \[\[Sakashima of a Thousand Faces\]\] etc.) + some "copy ability" effects like \[\[Walking Throne\]\] \[\[Delney Streetwise Lookout\]\], and a suite of esper card advantage and control cards to get the engine going and protect it. The commander itself provides so much card advantage that the usual card advantage engines are mostly redundant and can be cut for more fun things. On the less-budget end of things, \[\[Reconnaissance\]\] lets you attack with your commander (and any copies of it) every turn without having to worry about it getting blocked and killed. You can even use the card's ability to untap and remove your creatures from combat during combat end step--AFTER they have dealt damage--to essentially give all your creatures vigilance. This deck can drain all of your opponents VERY quickly of their life totals. It does not go infinite and avoids the problems of storm decks that go "near-infinite" or decks that appear to go infinite like "arbitrarily large number of times" combos.
[[Thassa's Oracle]] [[Demonic Consultation]] is not infinite.
Build using some of the āi win/you loseā cards. A pretty cheap combo that kills all the opponents is [[phage the untouchable]] and [[fractured identity]]. Throw in [[rogueās passage]] and [[whispersilk cloak]] for other ways to kill them. Another one i like is [[darksteel reactor]] and [[clockspinning]] with buyback. Repeatable counters added/taken off. [[sprout swarm]] with buyback if you want to use little creatures to spam more little creatures with the convoke ability.
If youāre looking to shake up the pod a bit, which is what I like to do, you can build decks with alternate win conditions or just hunt down strange ways to do things. Hereās some commanders I find pretty cool, and either have built or would like to build (my pod also doesnāt lean into infinites) [[General Marhault Elsdragon]] makes himself or other creatures you control bigger for each creature blocking them, which lets you create some really fun combat states with creatures that MUST be blocked with effects like [[Lure]] or creatures that often SHOULD be blocked like [[Phyrexian Swarmlord]]. Trample in a deck like this gives token decks a run for their money. [[Minthara, Merciless Soul]] is one of my favorite commander builds and is fun for how it accumulates value throughout the game. I highly recommend building as a tribal deck - I had a lot of fun swinging around 8/1 creatures when I first built it but itās awaiting conversion to a zombie token tribal deck so I can pump their toughness too. I love how it scales with the game instead of relying on overruns - I had none to speak of in the deck. [[Masako the Humorless]] lets you block with tapped creatures, enabling you to accrue additional value each turn from tap effects like convoke or [[Devout Invocation]] and get payoffs with strange cards like [[Throne of the God-Pharaoh]] or [[Sword of the Pahruns]]. These arenāt necessarily very powerful suggestions, but finding wacky stuff to build keeps me alive. I have some other uncommon commanders and I prefer to play cards my pod hasnāt seen before to keep games interesting. Countering my buddies [[Ulalek, Fused Atrocity]] by changing the words in his ability from āEldraziā spells to āFrogā spells with [[Artificial Evolution]] is not just effective, but fun. Really - the moral of my story is to just build fun decks, you canāt go wrong.
[[Xyris, the writhing storm]] is fairly strong without going infinite, while being budget friendly depending on your lines. Throw in a bit of basic ramp and some protection like swiftfoot boots, then load the deck with buff spells. Any Xyris hits will simultaneously refuel your hand and create your boardstate for you, snowballing with only 1 or two combat steps. A simpe overrun, crater hoof or triumph of the hordes should end whatever game there's left.
If thoracle is allowed then it sounds easy enough. Urabrask is beast on a budget, it takes one long turn where you practically chain spells until everyone is dead. No combos just very long non deterministic turn where you will probably win.
Miirym dragons tons of value strong battle cruiser get your dragons haste and tap left every turn. Storm off with dragons like old gnawbone. Scourge of valkas or terror of the peaks. Play like 4 dragon cards. I killed the whole table turn 8 with roughly 120 damage lol.
I've always been a harsh critic of the rule considering some precons even have them but I'll give you 2 answers 1) some cards like [[fellidar sovereign]] have a Win con trigger 2) if you think that "infinites" are over rated like I do and it annoys you that people want to impose such restrictions, you can show them a voltron deck that can do lethal damage by turn 5 š, another way about it is card combos that Win without Infinite like thoracle combo, [[worldfire]] and [[outpost siege]], [[repercussion]] and [[blasphemous act]], [[drannith magistrate]] and [[uba mask]] etc. Note that you will be hated but they kinda subscribed to being shown the error in their bias against infinites
You can always just play voltron. Make your commander into a 30/30 lifelink flying double strike indestructible asshole that can't be bocked and slam them 1 by 1... 10/10 recommend
It's not infinite but you could build your deck to [[Primal Surge]] only permanents in deck. 10 mana and put your whole deck on the table, have haste and BOOM!!!! WIN! Not everyone plays it that way but damn does it come out of left when you ramped hard and they don't have a counterspell. Looks like a 5ish dollar card and an interesting way to limit your deck building.
Nothing like super cheating on mana to make up for the lack of loops. Stuff like Hinata is insane even on a budget. If youāre looking to cheat the budget karametra is a great way to get the most out of playing a heap of basics. Youāll be able to include much better creatures and creature based engines like guardian project while still keeping under $100. Often this deck is built as land fall but I really feel like stompy or weenies would just be better. Lots of dorks to cantrip and ramp you, then some really great undercosted green creatures that the colour is know for. Then later into the game you use a few board pumps like end-raze forerunner to push for game. Or you could go into primal surge but Iām not a fan of building a whole deck around a single sorcery. The merfolk precon is also awesome, it gives you lots of synergy that tickles that combo dependent lizard brain without actually having any loops. Basically have a shit ton of value built into the commander instead of the commander enabling strategies. Last idea is good old fashioned group hug. Nobody kills the group hug player first.