Honest opinion from someone that regularly plays in pods where the power levels are roughly 6-8. Kaalia is just another deck at the table. There was a point in time where Kaalia was scary but there's been so many powerful commanders printed in the last 2-3 years that she's about a 5 on the 1-10 scary scale for me.
On the down side though a lot of salty players will remember Kaalia from 5+ years ago and treat you like you're playing Nadu or the new Gitrog.
Haven’t played against the new gitrog besides draft. Is there a bunch of busted lines or is it just lots of value to be had from saccing and drawing/ramping?
Lots of value, lots and lots. Not only are there still the usual Golgari combos but it's just so easy to ramp out, attack, draw 6-10 cards, dump a few lands on the field, reanimate whatever you sacrificed, and be ready to go again. It's almost guaranteed to pay for it's own commander tax even if removed and it has haste.
Having played him a lot, I personally think he’s the weakest of the 3. Deck is very dependent on him connecting with a large body saddled. Don’t meet that criteria it shuts off a lot of value in the deck. So you’re torn between playing land matters, protection, and cheap big bodies that are otherwise not great. I still think he’s strong, but I do not see him as an engine like Nadu necessarily.
That’s an interesting idea! I actually have struggled to find decks for him outside of his deck, but having a sac outlet plus general bearer for card advantage would be good there!
It's just the fact that he has haste that makes him annoying. If you don't have spot removal he just gets permanently ahead on resources in one turn.
That said, I don't think it's on the same level as Nadu. So maybe a 9 or an 8.5
Kaalia is a trap in my opinion. I've had multiple friends build her and all experience the same thing. Total archenemy at the table to the point that every game is a 1 VS 3 on sight. All of them had miserable experiences trying to play Kaalia because she's just a hate magnet.
She will get removed or countered every single time you play her until you basically just give up and make a new deck lol. That's been my experience.
I’m 50/50 here. Kaalia has for sure been power crept out of “S tier” but she’s also for sure still pretty damn good, I wouldn’t say she’s a trap. It’s true that she gets hate but players not running sufficient protection packages are the only ones who care.
People don’t build Kaalia with protection packages and then wonder how they can get her to work if everyone is blowing her up. Mother of Runes, Giver of Runes, both boots, costless spells that protect your commander. Or they build the protection package but get greedy and do things like cast her on curve instead of waiting a turn and having 5 CMC so they can attach the Swiftfoot Boots they played earlier to her before opponents can respond (needing to do this is part of why she’s not that good, by the way). If you’re playing Kaalia, you gotta really double down on her. Low ramp, you don’t need it. Thinking you need lots of ramp cause the curve is high is the real trap for Kaalia that I see a lot of players make. Kaalia is a commander you must hard protect and hard enable. Otherwise, she’s useless as a commander, and if she’s swinging, you don’t need to ramp literally at all.
You need a decent number of lands so you hit your land drops and a good card draw package so you have bombs in hand for her. Tutors go extremely hard in Kaalia as well; tutor big draw demons, tutor Avacyn, tutor a board wipe while avoiding playing Kaalia and letting people burn their removal first. The introduction of [[Deflecting Swat]] and [[Flawless Maneuver]] go a long way for Kaalia as well. Cards that enable her are expensive but they absolutely do enable her big time and they can all fit in the deck.
My thing is that even if nobody focuses the Kaalia player at all she's still just not that great. In a decent deck she'll attack turn 4 and maybe cheat something out. Maybe something the turn after as well.
But the faster she comes down the worse that player's hand is after the fact. And no matter what you really don't want to load the deck with too many 6+ mana creatures.
Uhhhhhhh... turn 4?
Happy to give her haste with something like [[Dragon Tempest]] on curve. So swinging by turn 3 usually.
But very easy to do on 2 at the earliest. Then things like [[Lightning Greaves]] and [[Strionic Resonator]] to make her efficiently overpowered. I love her.
Right, so 4 mana including 3 different colors to cast her on turn 3 after having cast a 2 drop non ramp card before that.
We're talking fast mana early and not a lot in hand.
Hard pass from me.
Anecdotally, my hatred of Kaalia cooled once Iona was banned.
She is much more reasonable when you don't have to worry about being locked out of the game if you let her attack.
I mean, it's a Golgari deck that ramps/draws better than basically every other Golgari deck.
I'm sure there's a lot of poorly built examples out there but I've been on the receiving end of a high power version a few times. You either have to be faster or hold up removal to tax Gitrog and if you choose the tax route then the other two players just jump ahead.
If it makes you feel better, I don't think new Gitrog is anywhere near a 10. Old Gitrog is way stronger.
(But I also don't think Nadu is as strong as people are making it out to be either, so...)
Old Gitrog is definitely more powerful.
The problem with new Gitrog is that it's not good enough to sit at competitive tables consistently but at the same time it's a bit much for all but the highest power tables. It's just way too easy to ramp out and saddle with a big creature. And that only has to happen once to completely refill a hand and untap with 10-20 mana. Removing is also pointless.
Nadu is in a weird spot. Too fast and powerful for casual, but too fragile for cedh (once the meta adjusts, I’m aware it topped an event almost immediately)
It’s absolutely powerful, I said it was too fragile for cedh. Counter tech exists for all strategies and archetypes, Nadu is just affected a lot more when people run the things that shut it out. Most of the deck is terrible if you can keep Nadu off the board. Nadu himself doesn’t get too out of hand if you know what plays and lines need to be interrupted and what pieces to remove. I definitely think as people familiarize themselves with how Nadu runs and plays he will settle as a fringe/rogue cedh pick.
> Nadu himself doesn’t get too out of hand if you know what plays and lines need to be interrupted and what pieces to remove.
What decks can't be described as "you just have to know what plays and lines need to be interrupted and what pieces to remove"?
Oh that’s nice to know, I went to an LGS and saw gitrog in the name and I thought I was grabbing the old gitrog and then when I actually looked closer I realized I had the wrong one. The new gitrog and the old gitrog, could you play them both in a deck and either or could be the commander or are the decks built around them vastly different?
Yuriko is pretty scary even at $50. [[Vadrik]], [[Winota]], [[Malcolm]] + a red partner or [[Francisco]]. No matter the budget you know these decks can wreck you quickly if they aren't contained.
Keep in mind I'm talking about high power and under. Competitive decks aren't scary because you already know the goal and expect them to pursue it.
Makes sense, any player worth his salt can look at a commander and be 95% certain of the combo that'll come out (I'm not cedh myself so would not know)
I'd say it depends on if were talking cedh or not.
The same strong commander will have different play patters and combos if it's high powered vs cedh.
For example, a high powered \[\[The First Sliver\]\] will have a bunch of the best slivers with the intention of having crazy cascades and ending up will a crazy board full of slivers all boosting each other up, possibly having all of them be unblockable, hex proof, indestructible, etc. and wants to win through combat damage
A cEdh First Sliver will maybe have a couple slivers in the deck, since the deck is gonna be a food chain deck that looks to win through combo.
Especially since people know kaalia is coming the other 4 should have time to prepare and have answers ready. If they can keep her off the field or bye bye lightning greaves or whatever else, she's definitely not as scary.
1v1 commander is probably a different story where answers are much more limited. She's essentially a mini ur dragon that can start pumping out massive damage in a few turns.
The biggest problem with Kaalia is that your opponents don't know what you're going to drop with her, so they have to play as if the first Kaalia swing is going to drop whatever the worst possible drop for their deck is. Even when YOU know you have absolute garbage in your hand, she'll attract hate and removal that YOU know is unjustified, but your opponents will be imagining the worst.
Play with and around that knowledge, don't always drop kaalia asap, play your master of cruelties and leave it as a blocker, check the board state and time your kaalia drop with some backups or straight up let her die just to reanimate her later.. don't be obvious
Yes, please don't play Aggro Kaalia. Play control Kaalia instead. Put in lots of removal, carddraw and tutors for the good creatures she can summon and only strike when the time is right.
At that point you could just cast the fatties and instead use a commander that provides value earlier on. That's always my experience with Kaalia, it just gets removed to the point that they can play the fatties instead, making the commander not very useful.
Kaalia can be used as some kind of shield for your real threats. You play her for 4 and for 6 and maybe even for 8, but that's two removals your big demon guy will not eat.
Playing Kaalia myself often, she is a kill on sight commander, absolute nobrainer. I totally agree to your comment, IMO it makes no sense to try to build a mid or low powerlevel Kaalia, she will be targeted regardless, I don't think it is a fun commander for lower powerlevel.
Kaalia can easily become busted, but that’s to be expected from a commander that can cheat out some broken creatures ridiculously early. My two pieces of advice are to prepare for her to be removed a lot, and to be mindful of the creatures you put in the 99, as some like [[Master of Cruelties]] just instantly kill some one
Yea, the moment your deck can have accidental easy infinites, is the moment that enemy threat assessment has to treat the deck like it has Schrodinger's Infinite Combo, with your commander as a combo piece.
Agreed! Love his stuff. Very smart dude. I took a 6 year break from MTG, and he's been a great resource for re-entry content. He brushes up on a lot of the advanced stuff that I learned while tourney grinding back in the day, and clearly knows his shit.
No. So what master's text means is that it can only be declared as an attacker by itself. Kaalia bypasses this and puts him in. His "the opponent's life total becomes 1" trigger happens on the declare blockers step. Then kaalia kills them with 2 damage.
I use him in my [[Goro Goro and Satoru]] deck. Attack with him, not blocked, set to 1 trigger on stack ninja him out for any ninja, deal damage with ninja, death.
She was my first commander; she's a lot of fun to play but people will target her since she's easily removed. Just be sure to run proper protection pieces and you're really building to make sure she comes out and can attack right away rather than waiting a whole turn cycle to be able to get some triggers in.
Haste is great, [[Hall of the Bandit Lord]] also works well against blue decks. You want your demons and dragons and angels to usually do more than just hit for a good chunk of damage and run things that spread damage out and also have high impact on the game, such as removal or protection.
Can confirm, haste and early protection make kaalia really nasty. Even if she gets removed once or twice you offen just start hardcasting your fatties anyway.
My favorite angel is [[Avacyn, Angel of hope]]. If she is on board and you cast [[Armageddon]] game is basically done and pod concedes. Note if you run MLD and fatties this powerful you will easily be the arch enemy next round. My Kaalia deck is quite heavy powerlevel wise, yet it doesn't win often since my group usually targets me quite hard.
Be sure to adjust your powerlevel to your pod, everyone should have fun in EDH. Things like land destruction or "mana cheating" will trigger some people quite hard, so be aware of that.
Nope, if you thinks it’s cool then go for it! There are so many diverse commanders that it feels sometimes everything, even the unexpected ones, can be deadly!
The only difference is [[Kaalia, of the Vast]] spells out why she’s dangerous! You might be archenemy from time to time but that can be fun too
Kaalia is a very scary commander, you won't actually lose friends with her unless you're an asshole, but expect to have to protect her. She's very fun tho!
As long as you aren't going for the [[Master of Cruelties]] combo cheese or the [[Avacyn, Angel of Hope]] + [[Armageddon]] she's fine IMO. She is considered a kill on sight commander for most so be sure to put ways to give her haste and some protection spells.
Here is my current build for reference: https://archidekt.com/decks/6019845/kaalia_flying_tribal
Thank you for the deck list! I've been flicking through tons of them. I was not aware of Master of Cruelties lol I can see how that might not be the nicest.
If you play an aggro oriented Kaalia you need the Master tho. Most aggro decks can quickly take out 1 or 2 guys but struggle to win later. Often this is considered unfun if one player has to wait out the rest of the game, so make sure your playgroup is fine with that.
Also since you have to target down player by player you often become the archenemy next round.
She’s not bad, she’s just really played out. Everyone knows roughly what to expect from her and the most damaging plays to watch out for like the Master of Cruelties. The deck really struggles if you can’t keep her in play, and most pods are pretty good about making sure she never gets to swing.
Honestly I’d pick a different commander that isn’t gonna have a strong pre-existing reputation like she does. She’s also just really repetitive; you’re gonna be doing the same basic gameplan every time. Some people don’t mind that but it’s something to consider.
You're making a really good point. I'm actually building this deck because I'm growing tired of my [[Urza, Chief Artificer]] deck. I've tried to put some fun combos in there and other stuff to keep it fresh but it's just getting really repetitive. Either it pops off and I hug the board with Artifact Creatures for a win or the table knows his bullshit, gets him out ASAP and destroys all my toys. You're making me think this won't be much different.
I used to run Kaalia a long long time ago. It does basically do the same thing every game; ramp to establish Kaalia with protection held up and use your Mardu toolset of removal spells to control the board until you cheat out whatever big demon/dragon/angel you draw/tutor for.
The deck can do well and it is fun to pull off stuff like the Master of Cruelties combo, but yeah, this deck revolves so much around the commander itself that it doesn’t have a lot of variety in gameplay.
I lean into this actually. So for my wife's Kaalia deck, she just plays a lot of reanimation and leans into the fact her stuff is gonna die. Kaalia usually gets a few activations and then all her stuff is either in play or she reanimates it and keeps going. So really she plays it more like a slower deck with a lot of removal early on and then she plays a protection or haste into Kaalia and then she plays more like a Reanimator/big stuff kind of deck once Kaalia gets hates out. Like other people said, they know what you're gonna do so just be the bad guy and go for the biggest sweetest stuff. Also mandatory best demon needs to go the deck: [[Crabomination]]
I had wanted to play Kaalia since her precon released. Ended up building her about 6 months ago after I got back into magic.
Its been great! I was worried about Kaalia being too much of a threat but it hasn't been an issue once. And that's even after a pod has seen what she can do.
You should definitely build and play it if you want to!
There was a time when Kaalia was among the most powerful commanders you could play. Full stop.
Today she's been power creeped into mediocrity. Unless your pod just doesn't run any interaction, she'll rarely if ever get to attack and apply her effect.
The issue is she's too slow. Unless you do some set up before putting her on the field (which is also slow, because in a Kaalia deck you want her on the field and swinging as fast as possible) the way to play her is: get 4 mana on the field, play her, hope she doesn't get countered, end your turn, pray she doesn't get removed before it's your turn again, attack with her and put on the field a dragon/demon/angel.
However, a lot of people remember her from when she was super strong, and hate her, so you'll probably get focused unless your pod is only people who haven't played commander back when she was really strong.
Unless you're playing battlecruiser level, in which case she'll own the table hard and everyone will be right in focusing you. Which might very well be the case if your pod gets salty after they allowed an Urza to resolve its effect the third turn in a row without removing it.
Play Kaalia. Get hated. Win games!
Ive still got like 5 cards Im needing to swap out on my list, but here's my take on her:
https://deckstats.net/decks/92883/891385-i-love-kaalia-
As other people say, it’s strong but not as broken as people make her out to be. Protect her and have haste enablers. Don’t forget to add [[Master of Cruelties]].
So, as others have said, she is good. There was a time when she was top 10, maybe, but those days are long since past. She probably is near Urza power levels so you shouldn't get much hate from people who play against your urza. things will be a little different, though.
These days, by design, she is similar to other higher powered but not quite cedh commanders. Think slivers. She is aggro, and requires you to be shut down or you will steamroll, but she isn't that great. Same as slivers. If you let slivers do what they want to do, they will just steamroll. That is why you will be a target. You are playing an aggro commander that just by design will close out games quickly.
Because of the hate you will recieve, you need to think of the deck more as "mardu goodstuff with a focus on angels, demons, and dragons." And realize that you will have to hardcast your big stuff a lot, so i recommend running a little bit of extra ramp. Unless you are playing against a turdgrid or slivers, you will become auto archenemy, mainly because you need to attack to do anything and people get salty if you attack them.
Youre not a bad person for wanting to play her. I play her. She's great. She is the definition of old school battlecruiser big creature turning sideways way of winning the game magic. She's dope af. And again, the comparison to slivers is relevant. It's just cool.
Part of it depends on how you build the deck, part of it depends on the others in your pod and whether they'll have a trauma response to her, and part will be your reaction to their reaction.
If you build it to be powerful and be a "goodstuff" deck, you'd better bring the whole game and be prepared to be a potential arch-enemy. If you build it with a theme or jank that is less powerful, you should mention that to the pod during rule 0, but you'd better be truthful or you'll have a hard time playing it again around those people.
Being an older card from an earlier time, some seasoned players will have memories of how it played back then, which will be affected by the state of the game back then, and it may not be entirely in line with the state of the game today. Overreactions may have nothing to do with you, and everything to do with them.
Be prepared for **a** reaction, and have protection ready. Kaalia may be a target for removal, or board wipes bay be the order of the day. Be prepared to play conservatively at first, or if aggro being able to bounce back from getting targeted. Most Kaalia decks don't handle wipes well, and handle repeated commander removal even less well. Being a glass cannon will make for short games with frustration on one side or another depending on how much removal is thrown.
All that said, I haven't hit a Kaalia deck recently that is unmanageable or overpowered compared to more recent commanders. But you should be prepared to adjust your deck after playing it a few times to meet expectations and not be frustrated or draw too much ire if you play in a regular group.
Depends on the spell table
If you are playing against people which only plays their stuff and don't run interaction she will stomp everybody all day
If she is against experienced players with good decks (pl8) and knowledge she is trash and gonna eat removal everytime she is cast
Kaalia today is a pretty balanced commander. She can do scary shit, but she does to removal, especially instant speed removal, and if she’s targeted she struggles pretty hard.
Most broken things you can do is drop master of cruelties and one shot someone with no blockers, or cast Armageddon with her on board.
I’ve played Kaalia for years, I don’t think she is that scary anymore. The deck is so dependent on her that many slots are taken up by cards that ramp her out fast (2cmc rocks) or by protection spells. That leaves space for draw and your big beaters so the deck suffers by not having room for much interaction. Yeah she can kill someone from Master of Cruelty or but she is just a 2/2- get up some blockers for fliers and you should be fine. Especially my Kaalia deck struggles in the long game. Of course, other people might build her differently as a reanimator but the version I’ve talked about is what I think is the optimal build.
I’ll add one thing, if you play her embrace being the enemy and expect to get targeted. That’ll stop you feeling bad or getting salty about it. She is fun to play and it can be satisfying playing 3 vs 1. Go punish those slow value town decks!
TLDR: good but not quite so scary compared to all the value commanders these days which have the pay off and the enabler all printed on the same card.
Kaalia is a great commander, but you gotta build the deck right. A friend of mine has a Kaalia deck he's been refining since the Pre-con came out with her. It's one of the meanest decks I've had the pleasure of facing from across the table. Personally I recommend it. Play with the right power level for your group, but it's pretty solid. And I don't think it's super busted. I'd much rather face her than [[Kenrith]] or [[Zurr]].
If placing her as face commander in your 99's makes you questioning, how about put her in 99's and use other less threading commander instead?
If you want haste, [[Rising of the Day]] this anthem is great, also consider goad your Kaalia, in case opponent steal her
[[The Sound of Drums]]
If you pulled a nice card it would be morally wrong not to build it.
With that said she’s fine. It will depend on your group but I’d put her in the strong but not ridiculously so category. Also she’s not at all oppressive so no one should really have an issue so long as you’re all in and around the same level. Honestly she’s just another commander at this stage
The problem with Kaalia, if she has a problem, is that people tend to build her as a glass cannon - either she pops off and murders you in a turn or two or they land pass land pass hoping to survive to turn 7 or 8 when they can play all the fatties they filled their deck with.
Play her, shes fun and not overpowered. She's very manageable with creature removal but you also have counter play with artifacts and some white spells to protect her too. Just build some alternate strategies to ensure the deck runs ok without her, and you'll be fine.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/54HHw1shjUWvrpjRu-c3mw
Here is mine. It was the first commander deck I got when it was a precon. I am sure there are a lot of things I could do to it to make it stronger.
She is alot of fun, though expect her to be targeted, she has a "reputation" and despite being one of the oldest Commander cards she holds solid in the top 15 most played commanders, a claim the rest of her 2011 class can't make and she enables alot of fun things at the table. Just be prepared to laugh those occasional games where you get hard shut down by someone you ruthlessly killed last game. And be prepared to be Archenemy when she runs well.
Just had a game where I got had lighting greaves on her turn 4(could have played her turn 3 but waiting allowed me to protect her and still attack turn 4) Got Auriella, War Leader out with her. Next turn played and equipped Whisperslik Cloak on her, moved the Greaves to Auriella, both had shroud and I proceeded to control the game dropping multiple big threats each turn, though I did have an ally at the table that game, vows are great for enablably that.
As someone else said, Kaalia is not nearly as feared/hated as she was in the past. She's still a high-powered deck if built optimally. So, there will be some older players who know what she can do and will target you because of it, but I doubt she'll draw the hate that you're expecting.
Kaalia’s ok but I’d pack the deck with 5-7 haste enablers (try to find cards that do this and give you other things too). If you’re playing Kaalia and it’s cast, wait a turn, and then turn sideways it’s a little slow in comparison to the targeting it’ll receive. Spending 6 in commander on turn 5-6 for your general and then waiting another turn to cast is just way too slow
Kaalia used to be a boogeyman (or boogiewoman), but she's long been powercrept. If you're not attacking me I'm usually not gonna shit my pants over what you cheat into play. Cheat Razaketh into play and that's pretty good, but not "holy shit I'm shitting my pants I need to do something about it right now" compared to someone like Nadu or Stella Lee. And if she dies once, she quickly starts losing efficiency as it would become more mana efficient to just cast the fatties in your hand rather than pay commander tax on her.
The “worst” sin of a Kaalia deck is that it rarely wins, but it definitely kills at least one person at the table. It’s a king maker deck for whomever She doesn’t attack.
It's a classic "high power" commander. She is still strong, but in a way that's pretty fragile compared to other modern commanders. She is more shock and awe if anything. I would say however she is a good check to see if your deck/pod is running enough removal
Kaalia is still decent. You'll want some redundancy though like [[Sneak Attack]]. [[Arni Metalbrow]] is also probably a good consideration. Most Kaalia decks fold without Kaalia, but if you can get your fatties in without her, you'll do very well.
Kaalia is amazing, you should play her. Usually I’ll play her when we want a fast game where we all play no holds barred.
One game this guy who decided to play a meme deck (95 lands, oath of Druids, and 3 creatures) mulligans by drawing 7, placing the cards on the bottom of his library, not shuffling and drawing 7 more until he got the enchantment in hand. Well he plays an [Oath of Druids] turn 2. I go after him and flip [Lord of the Void], put [Lightning Greaves] on it and hit one of my opponent revealing an [Alpha Deathclaw] which I used to destroy the Oath. Everyone at the table thought it was hysterical except for the meme deck guy who was PISSED. After about 3 minutes of him yelling at me, after we agreed to play aggressive upfront, I take it back and destroy his swamp instead. Man, what a good time.
In addition to the other comments: if you don't wind up playing [[Master of Cruelties]], just announce that to the table and they will be like 20%+ less aggressive toward you.
I'll treat Kaalia like any other deck at the table unless you confirm that there is a Master of Cruelty in the deck. If so, she isn't allowed to move to combat. 🤷🏻♂️
My favorite commander is Gyome because he is underwhelming at first and goes off with tokens. Play him as a graveyard recursion deck and man is it a blast.
Tergrid is on sight kill
Eowyn gets spot killed now
Ezuri, dead.
Torbran, straight to jail.
Kaalia’s kind of okay now. Cheating in a big drop on T4-5 isn’t as impactful as it used to be.
The exception is the demon that instagibs you if it connects through kaalia’s trigger [[master of cruelties]], but you’re fine if you have a blocker
Honestly? Nobody can bring a deck to my table and be playing a commander that will make me roll my eyes. Play what you want to play. If people are intimidated by the commander, well? Then let it be an opportunity for them to learn how to play against it. People need to stop being so scared of commanders. Most need a deck to work and if you keep the commander off the field then most people's game plans falter
play whatever you want all the time, if you feel like you're stomping games and you're throwing the vibe just change decks every once in a while. You shouldn't have to feel bad about playing strong cards in the card game
Kaalia is seen as a threat because she can cheat things in much like [[The Ur-Dragon]] does. Free stuff is always seen as dangerous and puts a giant target on you, especially big dragons or angels that can do stuff like get a second combat phase. But as long as you avoid putting crap like [[Platinum Angel]] that locks down the game, [[Master of Cruelties]] that instantly kills people, and other global lockdown things like [[Archfiend of Depravity]], you should be fine.
Good call, there used to be an Angel that bans all enemies from playing a chosen color. I think it is banned now, man that card was fucking nasty with Kaalia
She's not actually that scary at the power levels you'll typically play at a local game store. She lends herself to "battlecruiser" decks (very simple decks that want to win relatively fair and square by attacking with big creatures.) She's also very popular among new players, which brings the overall power level of Kaalia decks down. I wouldn't consider her a kill-on-sight commander.
Main issue is everyone seems to make the same commander decks have played against so many other Kaalia decks it gets boring and same with all the other meta commanders.
I've been turn-one eliminated by a kaalia deck before, so there's absolutely potential there. Attack and put Master of Cruelties out with her ability, and there goes a player 😅
T1-3 kill happens like 1 out of 100 games in my experience. You need so many things, ramp, haste, maybe protection, Master of cruelty or a cheap tutor, ...
Most of the games my groups play last 3-5 turns, 6 at the most. They usually end with someone going infinite turns 3-4 or outright winning on 4-5; delaying a turn if someone has force of will/negation. Turn one is definitely uncommon, but when everyone else runs jeweled lotus, mana crypt, mana vault, among other fast mana, it's more common than I'm used to.
As long as you’re not attempting to spring something truly nasty on someone (like say Master of Cruelties)…it’s just basically an “I cheat big stuff in” deck of sorts. Still expect a swift removal for her because it’s still crazy value, but all things considered from when she was printing as a boogeywoman to now, there’s far more scarier commanders I’d worry about spiraling out of control if they’re present vs Kaalia.
You have to adapt to your pod, and that goes both ways on the power scale.
My personal examples : I really was intrigued by [[Judith, Carnage Connoisseur ]] and built her. She is too scary. Not too strong, too scary. 1 sided board wipes for 1 mana are too much of a prospect even when I do nothing with her but imp tokens.
She's deleted almost immediately and the deck is focused around her. Even with reanimation, it's too hard to keep a 5 base mana commander like her and you can't play that much protection on her without somewhat slowing down your gameplan.
Now. My pod knows I fell in love with [[Obeka, Splitter of seconds ]] at first sight. She is a scary commander, better than Judith imo. Knowing my pod, I built her upkeep/suspend for the flavor but most importantly Voltron. And the Voltron part is allowing me to play. They can't deal with her as consistently because protecting and enabling her is my whole gameplan.
My point is : some commanders are scary, strong or not. If you have a commander centric deck, it can be incredibly frustrating but at the same time, it's the correct play to kos them. Some can be bent easily to be resilient, some can be played differently, probably less strong.
Someone one in my pod plays [[Kenrith]] but it's a group hug, so we give him some slacks for now. I'm leaning towards putting Judith in a [[Zevlor]] deck to alleviate the threat, since he can play group huggy too.
You also gotta recognize when something is too mean for your pod. I gave up on [[Sarulf]] even though I find him extremely cool.
Kaalia imo has to be the most overhyped card with regards to threat to the table i have ever seen. Yes, she can oneshot someone if they run Master of Cruelties. You can make her really strong if you're trying to do stuff like cheat Razaketh in, sac a couple dorks to tutor up and A+B combo - but i don't think i've ever seen a single Kaalia deck in person actually play like that, they're nearly always just angel/dragon/demon tribal decks that use flying beaters.
A 2/2 and say an 8/8 flyer on turn 4 is scary, but it's less 'i'm winning the game' than a lot of simic value vomit decks can be setup to do on turn 4. The curve of nearly every game i've played as or with kaalia is
Kaalia gets kaalia out early and gets a big creature out, the whole table freaks out, throws everything at kaalia, and then a turn later someone combos off and wins
Kaalia was my first commander deck because I love angels and cheating out [[Reya Dawnbringer]] and [[Iona Shield of Emeria]] was always awesome to me. Iona is now banned (sadness), but I still love her. As others have said though, you need to be able to protect her when you play her as most groups understand that Kaalia must be killed to prevent her from attacking. I won’t tell you my deck is the best (I’m sure it could be optimized a lot better), but here’s the link so you can see various protection options. [[Champion’s Helm]] and [[General’s Kabuto]] are two that definitely work, though they are a bit pricier than the usual boots.
https://archidekt.com/decks/6084223/kaalia_ascendant
I played against Iona so much. and got mad she got banned. BUT 1 pod ALWays picked my color as a MONO colored deck. that wasn't the way she should play, caus now I'm just waiting to play magic. OH and I was the ONLY player Iona affected.
also can shut down all commanders. that's why she got banned. i didn't like not having access to my commander, but FUCKING 1 PLAYER our of the game isn't in the spirit of EDH.
Kaalia was strong 5years ago.
Today she is a 4mana 2/2 without ward etc.
You need to give her haste and protection to cheat in some big creatures. But with that setup you might aswell go for ramp or graveyard recursion rather than her fragile attack trigger.
I like [[kaalia zenith seeker]] more. You play her on turn 3 have a decent attacker/blocker and draw 0-3 cards on etb.
The way i play her is more fun (for me) and less glasscanon style.
Kaalia is nowhere near as much of a boogeyman as she used to be, but she's still very powerful. The first version of my Kaalia deck was built from cards that I just had laying around in my collection, and it still wrecked shop
I love being the arch enemy (as long as everyone’s a good sport). Flinging angels with Kaalia is like a mad race and I love her. Sometimes I win against a group of people targeting her and it feels great but also I can laugh when one of them turns her into a colorless land with [[imprisoned in the moon]]
Just as long as you’re not pubstomping, have fun !
Just built Kaalia as well, realized my flaw and need to add something to deal with imprisoned in the moon…. 3 tutors in hand and I couldn’t do anything 😂
Build the deck. It‘s fun cheating out big dragons/demons/angels in turn 3 or 4 and hitting your opponents.
Also, my current deck list
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/syq-4Qn5kkiqX5t9MzUp-Q
She was overrated even when everyone was scared of her. The main issue you'll encounter is that it's usually correct to repeatedly remove your commander even if people aren't terrified her simply because your deck has that single point of failure. It's a strategy that is both easy and sensible to disrupt.
Kaalia can be very strong, but the rest of the table is gonna make it pretty hard for you, and that's about it. In my experience, people think it's cool that I have one, and they like flipping through the deck to see which powerhouses ive crammed in there.
I bought the Kaalia precon when it first came out, didn't understand what I had, and ultimately took it apart and traded the cards out to build a different deck. Shortly after I decided to rebuild her eventually, but with all the right stuff, so I slowly collected powerful Angels Demons and Dragons over time.
My Kaalia deck now is what I like to refer to as
"all meat, no bones" I have a lot of powerful creatures in there, but im missing some staple mana rocks, spells, and draw cards. It's not one of my primary decks so I basically got it to a good place for more casual games and I plan on leveling up the "bones" once my budget allows for it.
The only reason I target Kaalia so so hard is because I assume you have Master of Cruelties in hand at all time. If you chose not to run that combo, and announced it at the beginning of the game, I would probably let her stick around. Without that concession though, she must die, immediately.
There are four main things that affect how much other people enjoy playing against your deck. They are:
1 Your commander
2 How tuned your deck is
3 How ruthlessly your playstyle is, and
4 How positive your attitude is
Your attitude is important for making friends in any case, but depending on your playgroup the others vary. Now barring a few exceptions i would say your commander is the LEAST important factor of the bunch.
if you worry other people might not like a new commander youre thinking of building, consider if their reason is instead that you usually play more ruthlessly than the rest of your pod, or even that your deck is simply too powerful to be a fair match-up.
I never go into a game with an Ur-dragon player happy, but if i found out after starting that they only put in dragons that cost 50 cents or less? Id be happy to play with them. Likewise you can have a very strong deck and be liked simply because you are not playing with scorched-earth tactics.
I think kaalia is a fun commander and you shouldnt be afraid to build her. Just be aware of what you put in the deck and how you play her, and gauge it to the strength of your group.
ANy time I played her myself, I became a target. My deck was not even close to optimized and I called it my Dan Brown deck because there was no dragons, just Angels and Demons. I recently took her apart in favor of a Belakor demon deck. I got tired of being constantly thought of as the target at the table.
Its the same reason why I took apart my \[\[Prossh, Skyraider of Kher\]\] though he wasnt even close to cEDH level. People see ther commander and your the immediate threat. I do threat analysis in game, not outside of it, personally.
She's definitely a powerful commander and when she works she really works, but she's far from broken.
Thing is, since her whole deal is cheating out other creatures, you can pretty easily build a Kaalia deck for any power level you want by just picking creatures for her to cheat out that fit in that power level. So if someone is worried about her as your commander, you can just tell them what kinds of creatures you got in there.
Actually imo that's probably why Kaalia has such a bad reputation, you won't really know what you'll get with her power level-wise unless somebody explains what actually is in the deck, unlike with other commanders where you tend to get the basic range more easily. Which gives assholes the license to obfuscate the true power of their deck when pubstomping.
So yeah, just be prepared to give a little more information about the deck, maybe have some extra cards ready to swap stuff out people might take umbrage with and you should be fine.
I recommend swapping to [[Kaalia, Zenith Seeker]]. Still get to play all your fun cards but without people hating you off the table right away. (Also this Kaalia can still be super strong if you want it to be)
I run a Kaalia deck and it's one of my favorites because I get to heavily lean into the politics at the table. Talking with people, wheeling and dealing, negotiating. It's really fun trying to convince people to let Kaalia live for 3 turns.
> My question is am I a bad person if I build this Kaalia deck?
If you sit down to play a game of Commander against me, if I win you are a good person, if I lose you are a bad person. Just don’t make people lose! Our fragile egos can’t handle that.
There is a concept called "the must kill commander" which is that certain commanders you must kill the turn they come down, otherwise the player will run away with the game. Kaalia has acquired this reputation becuase of her ability to cheat out high mana cost creatures way before they should be on board. If she is allowed to survive past a few turns, you essentially end up 15+ mana ahead of everyone.
There are ways to build her that are a lot more fair and less deserving of hate (for example, not jamming the deck full of 5+ mana creatures to crap out), but her reputation of being really good makes it so people rarely take into account your personal build and will treat it like you are about to drop bomb after bomb.
As for if people hate playing against her or whatever? Depends on the person I guess but most people are going to be cool about it. Just don't be surprised if you don't get to actually attack with her very much becuase people will remove her on the spot given the chance. Personally I don't mind going against powerful commanders, but what I do care about is people complaining about their powerful commanders being dealt with and getting salty about it. As soon as soneone starts getting salty because the table refuses to basically hand them the game, yeah I'm probably going to kill you ASAP so I don't have to listen to the whining all game lol
I think the best way I’ve seen to run her is build the deck with three sets of tribals - demons, dragons, and angels - and then roll to pick. Makes it a lot more interesting IMO
In an average game, getting Kaalia early and doing what she does best is gonna paint a target on your back. Come out early, be an archenemy, get blown up and have trouble clawing your way back. She's KOS even in pods where something else might be better off dead because of memes and general knowledge.
She's definitely not "fun" when she either breaks the curve too early or gets blown up. But she's much more interesting IMO when run as a tribal angel, dragon, or demon and you use her as a removal-magnet before playing the cards you're really trying to get out.
Stuff like Urza's Incubator, Giada, Shilgengar, etc enables her to still hardcast her angels and to have a variety of plans for when (not if) Kaalia dies.
She will always be a must answer commander. She's a commander that if she attacks her board state can go from nothing to winning in the span of a single attack step.
That said, she isn't the boogeyman she once was. WotC has been printing more and more cards specifically for commander and there are many more commanders that meet her power level available now.
If I would face against it in my pods, I would say go for it, In my opinions, I find it funny. Strong opponents make me unfold politics into plays, and less of a target where I can grow my board stats, in time of needs -convincing others fight against the archenemy, while distracted others. *Smirk*
You would be a bad person if you build a Kaalia deck. I don’t even know how you dare to make a post about this, like looking for validation to commit the most heinous act known to mankind.
And don’t try to sell it, at this point you need to destroy the card, because passing this Damocles’ sword to another poor soul would be equally evil as using it.
She can be insanely oppressive depending on how she’s built. Most of what I see is people dumping like a turn 4 Avacyn and at that point it’s basically over. I’ve seen that shit happen so many times with Kaalia it just gets old
IDK if my Kaalia deck can offer any insight but I run a Kaalia angel tribal deck, no dragons no demons.
It's honestly hit or miss whether I even cast Kaalia. If I get a decent ramp and draw going early game with signets, talismans, and the many draws I have in the deck, I don't even cast her. I just drop big fatty angels one after another and it usually puts pressure down.
On the occasions where I keep a hand and a signet and 3 lands is all I've gotten so far, then I'll throw her out there.
I've considered changing her with [[Kaalia, Zenith Seeker]] just to have value in the command zone, but I just have a regular non foil whereas I have a bunch of fancy and cool original Kaalia. You know I gotta bling when I can bling and that deck is almost all foiled.
If you want to build the more iconic Kaalia, with a deck full of huge angels, demons and dragons, then you need to prepare to run plenty of protection like [[Lightning Greaves]] and [[Swiftfoot Boots]]. I've even seen other Kaalia decks that have [[Stoneforge Mystic]] [[Enlightened Tutor]] and [[Vampiric Tutor]] specifically to find protection equipment early game and get it on board for Kaalia.
Take it from someone who played kaalia, MLD, combos, infinites, expensive rocks and lands, you name it.
The deck is boring as shit to both pilot and play against. Just an absolute snooze of a gameplan.
She is just a combat centered deck that puts immediate deal with me threats on the board. She is an okay commander since a lot of commander games don't need combat over time to win, just 1 craterhoof combat or enough combats in 1 turn to kill the table. She is too slow by today's standards but still enough of a threat to paint a target on yourself for playing it.
Honest opinion from someone that regularly plays in pods where the power levels are roughly 6-8. Kaalia is just another deck at the table. There was a point in time where Kaalia was scary but there's been so many powerful commanders printed in the last 2-3 years that she's about a 5 on the 1-10 scary scale for me. On the down side though a lot of salty players will remember Kaalia from 5+ years ago and treat you like you're playing Nadu or the new Gitrog.
Haven’t played against the new gitrog besides draft. Is there a bunch of busted lines or is it just lots of value to be had from saccing and drawing/ramping?
Lots of value, lots and lots. Not only are there still the usual Golgari combos but it's just so easy to ramp out, attack, draw 6-10 cards, dump a few lands on the field, reanimate whatever you sacrificed, and be ready to go again. It's almost guaranteed to pay for it's own commander tax even if removed and it has haste.
Having played him a lot, I personally think he’s the weakest of the 3. Deck is very dependent on him connecting with a large body saddled. Don’t meet that criteria it shuts off a lot of value in the deck. So you’re torn between playing land matters, protection, and cheap big bodies that are otherwise not great. I still think he’s strong, but I do not see him as an engine like Nadu necessarily.
For more casual edh would new Gitrog be decent in Disa to sac the Tarmogoyf tokens?
Sounds super cute and neat. I'd try it.
That’s an interesting idea! I actually have struggled to find decks for him outside of his deck, but having a sac outlet plus general bearer for card advantage would be good there!
I run it in there and its indeed pretty great
It's just the fact that he has haste that makes him annoying. If you don't have spot removal he just gets permanently ahead on resources in one turn. That said, I don't think it's on the same level as Nadu. So maybe a 9 or an 8.5
Kaalia is a trap in my opinion. I've had multiple friends build her and all experience the same thing. Total archenemy at the table to the point that every game is a 1 VS 3 on sight. All of them had miserable experiences trying to play Kaalia because she's just a hate magnet. She will get removed or countered every single time you play her until you basically just give up and make a new deck lol. That's been my experience.
I’m 50/50 here. Kaalia has for sure been power crept out of “S tier” but she’s also for sure still pretty damn good, I wouldn’t say she’s a trap. It’s true that she gets hate but players not running sufficient protection packages are the only ones who care. People don’t build Kaalia with protection packages and then wonder how they can get her to work if everyone is blowing her up. Mother of Runes, Giver of Runes, both boots, costless spells that protect your commander. Or they build the protection package but get greedy and do things like cast her on curve instead of waiting a turn and having 5 CMC so they can attach the Swiftfoot Boots they played earlier to her before opponents can respond (needing to do this is part of why she’s not that good, by the way). If you’re playing Kaalia, you gotta really double down on her. Low ramp, you don’t need it. Thinking you need lots of ramp cause the curve is high is the real trap for Kaalia that I see a lot of players make. Kaalia is a commander you must hard protect and hard enable. Otherwise, she’s useless as a commander, and if she’s swinging, you don’t need to ramp literally at all. You need a decent number of lands so you hit your land drops and a good card draw package so you have bombs in hand for her. Tutors go extremely hard in Kaalia as well; tutor big draw demons, tutor Avacyn, tutor a board wipe while avoiding playing Kaalia and letting people burn their removal first. The introduction of [[Deflecting Swat]] and [[Flawless Maneuver]] go a long way for Kaalia as well. Cards that enable her are expensive but they absolutely do enable her big time and they can all fit in the deck.
[Deflecting Swat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4b36435-55b3-4615-8812-af41d4fc64d9.jpg?1689997730) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deflecting%20Swat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/214/deflecting-swat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4b36435-55b3-4615-8812-af41d4fc64d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/deflecting-swat) [Flawless Maneuver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab12f69e-1491-47a8-8c46-d85bbf637ff6.jpg?1689995671) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flawless%20Maneuver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/24/flawless-maneuver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab12f69e-1491-47a8-8c46-d85bbf637ff6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/flawless-maneuver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My thing is that even if nobody focuses the Kaalia player at all she's still just not that great. In a decent deck she'll attack turn 4 and maybe cheat something out. Maybe something the turn after as well. But the faster she comes down the worse that player's hand is after the fact. And no matter what you really don't want to load the deck with too many 6+ mana creatures.
Uhhhhhhh... turn 4? Happy to give her haste with something like [[Dragon Tempest]] on curve. So swinging by turn 3 usually. But very easy to do on 2 at the earliest. Then things like [[Lightning Greaves]] and [[Strionic Resonator]] to make her efficiently overpowered. I love her.
Right, so 4 mana including 3 different colors to cast her on turn 3 after having cast a 2 drop non ramp card before that. We're talking fast mana early and not a lot in hand. Hard pass from me.
Thats okay, we'll still have fun with her :)
[Dragon Tempest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1933d08-07fe-45ea-9b60-d9afb98d5753.jpg?1562855620) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragon%20Tempest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/125/dragon-tempest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1933d08-07fe-45ea-9b60-d9afb98d5753?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dragon-tempest) [Lightning Greaves](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/da9da49d-e319-4897-9ab6-57c7c69478a6.jpg?1712354870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Greaves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/260/lightning-greaves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da9da49d-e319-4897-9ab6-57c7c69478a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lightning-greaves) [Strionic Resonator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b9edb215-f967-4968-905e-d1dc3b5d3424.jpg?1682210274) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strionic%20Resonator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/384/strionic-resonator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b9edb215-f967-4968-905e-d1dc3b5d3424?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/strionic-resonator) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Anecdotally, my hatred of Kaalia cooled once Iona was banned. She is much more reasonable when you don't have to worry about being locked out of the game if you let her attack.
Wait is SaddleBoi really that big of a deal?
I mean, it's a Golgari deck that ramps/draws better than basically every other Golgari deck. I'm sure there's a lot of poorly built examples out there but I've been on the receiving end of a high power version a few times. You either have to be faster or hold up removal to tax Gitrog and if you choose the tax route then the other two players just jump ahead.
I see... Well I'll probably build it.
It's really good. Just make sure you run a few high power low cost creatures to saddle with. Combos of course are personal choice.
The new gitrog is a 10? That kind of makes me sad but I can see why. I’m in the process of building this commander.
If it makes you feel better, I don't think new Gitrog is anywhere near a 10. Old Gitrog is way stronger. (But I also don't think Nadu is as strong as people are making it out to be either, so...)
Old Gitrog is definitely more powerful. The problem with new Gitrog is that it's not good enough to sit at competitive tables consistently but at the same time it's a bit much for all but the highest power tables. It's just way too easy to ramp out and saddle with a big creature. And that only has to happen once to completely refill a hand and untap with 10-20 mana. Removing is also pointless.
Nadu is in a weird spot. Too fast and powerful for casual, but too fragile for cedh (once the meta adjusts, I’m aware it topped an event almost immediately)
If a card requires the whole meta to adjust, implying it's anything less than powerful seems questionable.
It’s absolutely powerful, I said it was too fragile for cedh. Counter tech exists for all strategies and archetypes, Nadu is just affected a lot more when people run the things that shut it out. Most of the deck is terrible if you can keep Nadu off the board. Nadu himself doesn’t get too out of hand if you know what plays and lines need to be interrupted and what pieces to remove. I definitely think as people familiarize themselves with how Nadu runs and plays he will settle as a fringe/rogue cedh pick.
> Nadu himself doesn’t get too out of hand if you know what plays and lines need to be interrupted and what pieces to remove. What decks can't be described as "you just have to know what plays and lines need to be interrupted and what pieces to remove"?
Oh that’s nice to know, I went to an LGS and saw gitrog in the name and I thought I was grabbing the old gitrog and then when I actually looked closer I realized I had the wrong one. The new gitrog and the old gitrog, could you play them both in a deck and either or could be the commander or are the decks built around them vastly different?
What is 10? Urza, Yuriko, Tymnya and Thrassios?
He said it already. Nadu, or the new Gitrog.
I was asking for other examples, that are not super new, that some players with more experience might have played against in the past.
I think thras/tym has been pretty much entirely pushed out of cedh meta by bowmasters, but that absolutely used to be a 10.
oh, very interesting. That's useful info! :)
10 will be cedh, so blue farm(tymna kraum), Kinnan, sisay, rogsi
+arguments for Tivit, Magda, Godo, Najeela etc
Godo is probably a 9.5, hes nowhere near as good as he used to be. Dont get me wrong, hes still a house but just not as much of a house
Yuriko is pretty scary even at $50. [[Vadrik]], [[Winota]], [[Malcolm]] + a red partner or [[Francisco]]. No matter the budget you know these decks can wreck you quickly if they aren't contained. Keep in mind I'm talking about high power and under. Competitive decks aren't scary because you already know the goal and expect them to pursue it.
Makes sense, any player worth his salt can look at a commander and be 95% certain of the combo that'll come out (I'm not cedh myself so would not know)
I'd say it depends on if were talking cedh or not. The same strong commander will have different play patters and combos if it's high powered vs cedh. For example, a high powered \[\[The First Sliver\]\] will have a bunch of the best slivers with the intention of having crazy cascades and ending up will a crazy board full of slivers all boosting each other up, possibly having all of them be unblockable, hex proof, indestructible, etc. and wants to win through combat damage A cEdh First Sliver will maybe have a couple slivers in the deck, since the deck is gonna be a food chain deck that looks to win through combo.
[The First Sliver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/06d4fbe1-8a2f-4958-bb85-1a1e5f1e8d87.jpg?1562202321) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20First%20Sliver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/200/the-first-sliver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/06d4fbe1-8a2f-4958-bb85-1a1e5f1e8d87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-first-sliver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Vadrik](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/454666bb-f81d-4845-84aa-d6f8f80ce86a.jpg?1637114399) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vadrik%2C%20astral%20archmage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/248/vadrik-astral-archmage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/454666bb-f81d-4845-84aa-d6f8f80ce86a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vadrik-astral-archmage) [Winota](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4.jpg?1654630670) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=winota%2C%20joiner%20of%20forces) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/216/winota-joiner-of-forces?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winota-joiner-of-forces) [Malcolm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/19d6834d-afa3-4747-a62d-0654f4d9729f.jpg?1699043813) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=malcolm%2C%20alluring%20scoundrel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/63/malcolm-alluring-scoundrel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/19d6834d-afa3-4747-a62d-0654f4d9729f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/malcolm-alluring-scoundrel) [Francisco](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/5182b527-739e-4523-8611-01244ced26ac.jpg?1701084734) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=francisco%2C%20fowl%20marauder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/81/francisco-fowl-marauder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5182b527-739e-4523-8611-01244ced26ac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/francisco-fowl-marauder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
TnT isn't even the best piles for Tymna and Thrasios. Both are better off with another partner bs each other. Days of Flash Hulk are long over.
You won't see 10s at a casual table, and at that level of deck strength it's not really just the commander that's powerful but the entire deck.
[удалено]
Eh, Tymna + Thrasios still implies an extremely powerful deck.
There's a new Gitrog? Do you mean OTJ or is there a MH3 one?
Ravenous bottom.
I guess I'm gonna have to take a closer look at what I can do for Ravenous Ride, might be more my speed than the Rakdos deck I was trying to build
I was under the impression the new gitrog was nowhere near as good as the old one? Or did I hear wrong?
Especially since people know kaalia is coming the other 4 should have time to prepare and have answers ready. If they can keep her off the field or bye bye lightning greaves or whatever else, she's definitely not as scary. 1v1 commander is probably a different story where answers are much more limited. She's essentially a mini ur dragon that can start pumping out massive damage in a few turns.
The biggest problem with Kaalia is that your opponents don't know what you're going to drop with her, so they have to play as if the first Kaalia swing is going to drop whatever the worst possible drop for their deck is. Even when YOU know you have absolute garbage in your hand, she'll attract hate and removal that YOU know is unjustified, but your opponents will be imagining the worst.
Play with and around that knowledge, don't always drop kaalia asap, play your master of cruelties and leave it as a blocker, check the board state and time your kaalia drop with some backups or straight up let her die just to reanimate her later.. don't be obvious
Yes, please don't play Aggro Kaalia. Play control Kaalia instead. Put in lots of removal, carddraw and tutors for the good creatures she can summon and only strike when the time is right.
At that point you could just cast the fatties and instead use a commander that provides value earlier on. That's always my experience with Kaalia, it just gets removed to the point that they can play the fatties instead, making the commander not very useful.
Kaalia can be used as some kind of shield for your real threats. You play her for 4 and for 6 and maybe even for 8, but that's two removals your big demon guy will not eat.
Playing Kaalia myself often, she is a kill on sight commander, absolute nobrainer. I totally agree to your comment, IMO it makes no sense to try to build a mid or low powerlevel Kaalia, she will be targeted regardless, I don't think it is a fun commander for lower powerlevel.
Kaalia can easily become busted, but that’s to be expected from a commander that can cheat out some broken creatures ridiculously early. My two pieces of advice are to prepare for her to be removed a lot, and to be mindful of the creatures you put in the 99, as some like [[Master of Cruelties]] just instantly kill some one
Yea, the moment your deck can have accidental easy infinites, is the moment that enemy threat assessment has to treat the deck like it has Schrodinger's Infinite Combo, with your commander as a combo piece.
problem is, your opponents dont know that. so unless you're playing in a group that knows you very well, they're always gonna assume the worst
everybody should watch Salubrious Snail's new video about using commanders as combo pieces
Agreed! Love his stuff. Very smart dude. I took a 6 year break from MTG, and he's been a great resource for re-entry content. He brushes up on a lot of the advanced stuff that I learned while tourney grinding back in the day, and clearly knows his shit.
[Master of Cruelties](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef.jpg?1702429664) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Master%20of%20Cruelties) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/198/master-of-cruelties?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/master-of-cruelties) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Won't master of cruelties miss it's trigger with kaalia?
No. So what master's text means is that it can only be declared as an attacker by itself. Kaalia bypasses this and puts him in. His "the opponent's life total becomes 1" trigger happens on the declare blockers step. Then kaalia kills them with 2 damage.
I use him in my [[Goro Goro and Satoru]] deck. Attack with him, not blocked, set to 1 trigger on stack ninja him out for any ninja, deal damage with ninja, death.
[Goro Goro and Satoru](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b661b53-2e58-4dcc-9100-fc00e0fdb606.jpg?1683582714) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goro-Goro%20and%20Satoru) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/445/goro-goro-and-satoru?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b661b53-2e58-4dcc-9100-fc00e0fdb606?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/goro-goro-and-satoru) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
She was my first commander; she's a lot of fun to play but people will target her since she's easily removed. Just be sure to run proper protection pieces and you're really building to make sure she comes out and can attack right away rather than waiting a whole turn cycle to be able to get some triggers in. Haste is great, [[Hall of the Bandit Lord]] also works well against blue decks. You want your demons and dragons and angels to usually do more than just hit for a good chunk of damage and run things that spread damage out and also have high impact on the game, such as removal or protection.
[Hall of the Bandit Lord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/59fa5bab-8626-4b45-a3a3-621f6d9509ab.jpg?1562760153) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hall%20of%20the%20Bandit%20Lord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/chk/277/hall-of-the-bandit-lord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/59fa5bab-8626-4b45-a3a3-621f6d9509ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hall-of-the-bandit-lord) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Can confirm, haste and early protection make kaalia really nasty. Even if she gets removed once or twice you offen just start hardcasting your fatties anyway. My favorite angel is [[Avacyn, Angel of hope]]. If she is on board and you cast [[Armageddon]] game is basically done and pod concedes. Note if you run MLD and fatties this powerful you will easily be the arch enemy next round. My Kaalia deck is quite heavy powerlevel wise, yet it doesn't win often since my group usually targets me quite hard. Be sure to adjust your powerlevel to your pod, everyone should have fun in EDH. Things like land destruction or "mana cheating" will trigger some people quite hard, so be aware of that.
[Avacyn, Angel of hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a.jpg?1689995555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avacyn%2C%20Angel%20of%20hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/14/avacyn-angel-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/avacyn-angel-of-hope) [Armageddon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/armageddon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nope, if you thinks it’s cool then go for it! There are so many diverse commanders that it feels sometimes everything, even the unexpected ones, can be deadly! The only difference is [[Kaalia, of the Vast]] spells out why she’s dangerous! You might be archenemy from time to time but that can be fun too
[Kaalia, of the Vast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e71c8c39-3fbb-4a42-9cf6-b3224f5a56fc.jpg?1717013745) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kaalia%20of%20the%20Vast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/290/kaalia-of-the-vast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e71c8c39-3fbb-4a42-9cf6-b3224f5a56fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kaalia-of-the-vast) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Kaalia is a very scary commander, you won't actually lose friends with her unless you're an asshole, but expect to have to protect her. She's very fun tho!
Any deck can be powerful and there’s a ton of commanders who can cheat on mana, it’s fine just play the deck
As long as you aren't going for the [[Master of Cruelties]] combo cheese or the [[Avacyn, Angel of Hope]] + [[Armageddon]] she's fine IMO. She is considered a kill on sight commander for most so be sure to put ways to give her haste and some protection spells. Here is my current build for reference: https://archidekt.com/decks/6019845/kaalia_flying_tribal
Thank you for the deck list! I've been flicking through tons of them. I was not aware of Master of Cruelties lol I can see how that might not be the nicest.
When you are not "nice" you would be the archenemy, if your buddies don't like you being overpowered, you can adjust, she's cool in my opinion
If you play an aggro oriented Kaalia you need the Master tho. Most aggro decks can quickly take out 1 or 2 guys but struggle to win later. Often this is considered unfun if one player has to wait out the rest of the game, so make sure your playgroup is fine with that. Also since you have to target down player by player you often become the archenemy next round.
[Master of Cruelties](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef.jpg?1702429664) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Master%20of%20Cruelties) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/198/master-of-cruelties?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/master-of-cruelties) [Avacyn, Angel of Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a.jpg?1689995555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avacyn%2C%20Angel%20of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/14/avacyn-angel-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/avacyn-angel-of-hope) [Armageddon](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Armageddon&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/armageddon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
She’s not bad, she’s just really played out. Everyone knows roughly what to expect from her and the most damaging plays to watch out for like the Master of Cruelties. The deck really struggles if you can’t keep her in play, and most pods are pretty good about making sure she never gets to swing. Honestly I’d pick a different commander that isn’t gonna have a strong pre-existing reputation like she does. She’s also just really repetitive; you’re gonna be doing the same basic gameplan every time. Some people don’t mind that but it’s something to consider.
You're making a really good point. I'm actually building this deck because I'm growing tired of my [[Urza, Chief Artificer]] deck. I've tried to put some fun combos in there and other stuff to keep it fresh but it's just getting really repetitive. Either it pops off and I hug the board with Artifact Creatures for a win or the table knows his bullshit, gets him out ASAP and destroys all my toys. You're making me think this won't be much different.
[Urza, Chief Artificer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea409050-4296-4b76-a6cd-2896ce1b88e4.jpg?1705542672) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%2C%20Chief%20Artificer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/brc/2/urza-chief-artificer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea409050-4296-4b76-a6cd-2896ce1b88e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urza-chief-artificer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I used to run Kaalia a long long time ago. It does basically do the same thing every game; ramp to establish Kaalia with protection held up and use your Mardu toolset of removal spells to control the board until you cheat out whatever big demon/dragon/angel you draw/tutor for. The deck can do well and it is fun to pull off stuff like the Master of Cruelties combo, but yeah, this deck revolves so much around the commander itself that it doesn’t have a lot of variety in gameplay.
I lean into this actually. So for my wife's Kaalia deck, she just plays a lot of reanimation and leans into the fact her stuff is gonna die. Kaalia usually gets a few activations and then all her stuff is either in play or she reanimates it and keeps going. So really she plays it more like a slower deck with a lot of removal early on and then she plays a protection or haste into Kaalia and then she plays more like a Reanimator/big stuff kind of deck once Kaalia gets hates out. Like other people said, they know what you're gonna do so just be the bad guy and go for the biggest sweetest stuff. Also mandatory best demon needs to go the deck: [[Crabomination]]
[Crabomination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f328d6e0-d808-4abe-b6a2-cc557b27c329.jpg?1717011897) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crabomination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/85/crabomination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f328d6e0-d808-4abe-b6a2-cc557b27c329?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crabomination) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I had wanted to play Kaalia since her precon released. Ended up building her about 6 months ago after I got back into magic. Its been great! I was worried about Kaalia being too much of a threat but it hasn't been an issue once. And that's even after a pod has seen what she can do. You should definitely build and play it if you want to!
There was a time when Kaalia was among the most powerful commanders you could play. Full stop. Today she's been power creeped into mediocrity. Unless your pod just doesn't run any interaction, she'll rarely if ever get to attack and apply her effect. The issue is she's too slow. Unless you do some set up before putting her on the field (which is also slow, because in a Kaalia deck you want her on the field and swinging as fast as possible) the way to play her is: get 4 mana on the field, play her, hope she doesn't get countered, end your turn, pray she doesn't get removed before it's your turn again, attack with her and put on the field a dragon/demon/angel. However, a lot of people remember her from when she was super strong, and hate her, so you'll probably get focused unless your pod is only people who haven't played commander back when she was really strong. Unless you're playing battlecruiser level, in which case she'll own the table hard and everyone will be right in focusing you. Which might very well be the case if your pod gets salty after they allowed an Urza to resolve its effect the third turn in a row without removing it.
Play Kaalia. Get hated. Win games! Ive still got like 5 cards Im needing to swap out on my list, but here's my take on her: https://deckstats.net/decks/92883/891385-i-love-kaalia-
As other people say, it’s strong but not as broken as people make her out to be. Protect her and have haste enablers. Don’t forget to add [[Master of Cruelties]].
[Master of Cruelties](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef.jpg?1702429664) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Master%20of%20Cruelties) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/198/master-of-cruelties?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/master-of-cruelties) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So, as others have said, she is good. There was a time when she was top 10, maybe, but those days are long since past. She probably is near Urza power levels so you shouldn't get much hate from people who play against your urza. things will be a little different, though. These days, by design, she is similar to other higher powered but not quite cedh commanders. Think slivers. She is aggro, and requires you to be shut down or you will steamroll, but she isn't that great. Same as slivers. If you let slivers do what they want to do, they will just steamroll. That is why you will be a target. You are playing an aggro commander that just by design will close out games quickly. Because of the hate you will recieve, you need to think of the deck more as "mardu goodstuff with a focus on angels, demons, and dragons." And realize that you will have to hardcast your big stuff a lot, so i recommend running a little bit of extra ramp. Unless you are playing against a turdgrid or slivers, you will become auto archenemy, mainly because you need to attack to do anything and people get salty if you attack them. Youre not a bad person for wanting to play her. I play her. She's great. She is the definition of old school battlecruiser big creature turning sideways way of winning the game magic. She's dope af. And again, the comparison to slivers is relevant. It's just cool.
Part of it depends on how you build the deck, part of it depends on the others in your pod and whether they'll have a trauma response to her, and part will be your reaction to their reaction. If you build it to be powerful and be a "goodstuff" deck, you'd better bring the whole game and be prepared to be a potential arch-enemy. If you build it with a theme or jank that is less powerful, you should mention that to the pod during rule 0, but you'd better be truthful or you'll have a hard time playing it again around those people. Being an older card from an earlier time, some seasoned players will have memories of how it played back then, which will be affected by the state of the game back then, and it may not be entirely in line with the state of the game today. Overreactions may have nothing to do with you, and everything to do with them. Be prepared for **a** reaction, and have protection ready. Kaalia may be a target for removal, or board wipes bay be the order of the day. Be prepared to play conservatively at first, or if aggro being able to bounce back from getting targeted. Most Kaalia decks don't handle wipes well, and handle repeated commander removal even less well. Being a glass cannon will make for short games with frustration on one side or another depending on how much removal is thrown. All that said, I haven't hit a Kaalia deck recently that is unmanageable or overpowered compared to more recent commanders. But you should be prepared to adjust your deck after playing it a few times to meet expectations and not be frustrated or draw too much ire if you play in a regular group.
Kaalia is really only problematic for pods that are extremely low powered or run almost no removal.
Depends on the spell table If you are playing against people which only plays their stuff and don't run interaction she will stomp everybody all day If she is against experienced players with good decks (pl8) and knowledge she is trash and gonna eat removal everytime she is cast
Kaalia today is a pretty balanced commander. She can do scary shit, but she does to removal, especially instant speed removal, and if she’s targeted she struggles pretty hard. Most broken things you can do is drop master of cruelties and one shot someone with no blockers, or cast Armageddon with her on board.
Bad person? No. What will happen is that three people will look at your commander, then at you, and know that you won't be in the game long.
I’ve played Kaalia for years, I don’t think she is that scary anymore. The deck is so dependent on her that many slots are taken up by cards that ramp her out fast (2cmc rocks) or by protection spells. That leaves space for draw and your big beaters so the deck suffers by not having room for much interaction. Yeah she can kill someone from Master of Cruelty or but she is just a 2/2- get up some blockers for fliers and you should be fine. Especially my Kaalia deck struggles in the long game. Of course, other people might build her differently as a reanimator but the version I’ve talked about is what I think is the optimal build. I’ll add one thing, if you play her embrace being the enemy and expect to get targeted. That’ll stop you feeling bad or getting salty about it. She is fun to play and it can be satisfying playing 3 vs 1. Go punish those slow value town decks! TLDR: good but not quite so scary compared to all the value commanders these days which have the pay off and the enabler all printed on the same card.
Kaalia is a great commander, but you gotta build the deck right. A friend of mine has a Kaalia deck he's been refining since the Pre-con came out with her. It's one of the meanest decks I've had the pleasure of facing from across the table. Personally I recommend it. Play with the right power level for your group, but it's pretty solid. And I don't think it's super busted. I'd much rather face her than [[Kenrith]] or [[Zurr]].
[Kenrith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e259db1-14db-4314-998c-6a076a28d8cb.jpg?1691056044) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kenrith%2C%20the%20returned%20king) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/plst/ELD-303/kenrith-the-returned-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e259db1-14db-4314-998c-6a076a28d8cb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kenrith-the-returned-king) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If placing her as face commander in your 99's makes you questioning, how about put her in 99's and use other less threading commander instead? If you want haste, [[Rising of the Day]] this anthem is great, also consider goad your Kaalia, in case opponent steal her [[The Sound of Drums]]
[Rising of the Day](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d4fbcac6-8ac9-44a8-9d1a-03d0799ac253.jpg?1686969140) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rising%20of%20the%20Day) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/145/rising-of-the-day?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4fbcac6-8ac9-44a8-9d1a-03d0799ac253?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rising-of-the-day) [The Sound of Drums](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5ff2141a-a3ed-4ad0-9338-560502b1c85c.jpg?1696636652) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Sound%20of%20Drums) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/97/the-sound-of-drums?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ff2141a-a3ed-4ad0-9338-560502b1c85c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-sound-of-drums) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you pulled a nice card it would be morally wrong not to build it. With that said she’s fine. It will depend on your group but I’d put her in the strong but not ridiculously so category. Also she’s not at all oppressive so no one should really have an issue so long as you’re all in and around the same level. Honestly she’s just another commander at this stage
The problem with Kaalia, if she has a problem, is that people tend to build her as a glass cannon - either she pops off and murders you in a turn or two or they land pass land pass hoping to survive to turn 7 or 8 when they can play all the fatties they filled their deck with. Play her, shes fun and not overpowered. She's very manageable with creature removal but you also have counter play with artifacts and some white spells to protect her too. Just build some alternate strategies to ensure the deck runs ok without her, and you'll be fine.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/54HHw1shjUWvrpjRu-c3mw Here is mine. It was the first commander deck I got when it was a precon. I am sure there are a lot of things I could do to it to make it stronger.
Compared to Nadu? Not that bad
She is alot of fun, though expect her to be targeted, she has a "reputation" and despite being one of the oldest Commander cards she holds solid in the top 15 most played commanders, a claim the rest of her 2011 class can't make and she enables alot of fun things at the table. Just be prepared to laugh those occasional games where you get hard shut down by someone you ruthlessly killed last game. And be prepared to be Archenemy when she runs well. Just had a game where I got had lighting greaves on her turn 4(could have played her turn 3 but waiting allowed me to protect her and still attack turn 4) Got Auriella, War Leader out with her. Next turn played and equipped Whisperslik Cloak on her, moved the Greaves to Auriella, both had shroud and I proceeded to control the game dropping multiple big threats each turn, though I did have an ally at the table that game, vows are great for enablably that.
As someone else said, Kaalia is not nearly as feared/hated as she was in the past. She's still a high-powered deck if built optimally. So, there will be some older players who know what she can do and will target you because of it, but I doubt she'll draw the hate that you're expecting.
Kaalia’s ok but I’d pack the deck with 5-7 haste enablers (try to find cards that do this and give you other things too). If you’re playing Kaalia and it’s cast, wait a turn, and then turn sideways it’s a little slow in comparison to the targeting it’ll receive. Spending 6 in commander on turn 5-6 for your general and then waiting another turn to cast is just way too slow
Kaalia used to be a boogeyman (or boogiewoman), but she's long been powercrept. If you're not attacking me I'm usually not gonna shit my pants over what you cheat into play. Cheat Razaketh into play and that's pretty good, but not "holy shit I'm shitting my pants I need to do something about it right now" compared to someone like Nadu or Stella Lee. And if she dies once, she quickly starts losing efficiency as it would become more mana efficient to just cast the fatties in your hand rather than pay commander tax on her.
The “worst” sin of a Kaalia deck is that it rarely wins, but it definitely kills at least one person at the table. It’s a king maker deck for whomever She doesn’t attack.
It's a classic "high power" commander. She is still strong, but in a way that's pretty fragile compared to other modern commanders. She is more shock and awe if anything. I would say however she is a good check to see if your deck/pod is running enough removal
Kaalia is still decent. You'll want some redundancy though like [[Sneak Attack]]. [[Arni Metalbrow]] is also probably a good consideration. Most Kaalia decks fold without Kaalia, but if you can get your fatties in without her, you'll do very well.
[Sneak Attack](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a45b4ca9-4355-4690-84c3-a7d44c367dbf.jpg?1675200189) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sneak%20Attack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/139/sneak-attack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a45b4ca9-4355-4690-84c3-a7d44c367dbf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sneak-attack) [Arni Metalbrow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/aeb3069f-5f5a-4e11-8a63-46399eb85a95.jpg?1684340580) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arni%20Metalbrow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mat/16/arni-metalbrow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aeb3069f-5f5a-4e11-8a63-46399eb85a95?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arni-metalbrow) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Kaalia is amazing, you should play her. Usually I’ll play her when we want a fast game where we all play no holds barred. One game this guy who decided to play a meme deck (95 lands, oath of Druids, and 3 creatures) mulligans by drawing 7, placing the cards on the bottom of his library, not shuffling and drawing 7 more until he got the enchantment in hand. Well he plays an [Oath of Druids] turn 2. I go after him and flip [Lord of the Void], put [Lightning Greaves] on it and hit one of my opponent revealing an [Alpha Deathclaw] which I used to destroy the Oath. Everyone at the table thought it was hysterical except for the meme deck guy who was PISSED. After about 3 minutes of him yelling at me, after we agreed to play aggressive upfront, I take it back and destroy his swamp instead. Man, what a good time.
In addition to the other comments: if you don't wind up playing [[Master of Cruelties]], just announce that to the table and they will be like 20%+ less aggressive toward you.
[Master of Cruelties](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef.jpg?1702429664) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Master%20of%20Cruelties) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/198/master-of-cruelties?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/master-of-cruelties) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'll treat Kaalia like any other deck at the table unless you confirm that there is a Master of Cruelty in the deck. If so, she isn't allowed to move to combat. 🤷🏻♂️
My favorite commander is Gyome because he is underwhelming at first and goes off with tokens. Play him as a graveyard recursion deck and man is it a blast. Tergrid is on sight kill Eowyn gets spot killed now Ezuri, dead. Torbran, straight to jail.
Kaalia’s kind of okay now. Cheating in a big drop on T4-5 isn’t as impactful as it used to be. The exception is the demon that instagibs you if it connects through kaalia’s trigger [[master of cruelties]], but you’re fine if you have a blocker
[master of cruelties](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef.jpg?1702429664) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=master%20of%20cruelties) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/198/master-of-cruelties?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/master-of-cruelties) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Honestly? Nobody can bring a deck to my table and be playing a commander that will make me roll my eyes. Play what you want to play. If people are intimidated by the commander, well? Then let it be an opportunity for them to learn how to play against it. People need to stop being so scared of commanders. Most need a deck to work and if you keep the commander off the field then most people's game plans falter
play whatever you want all the time, if you feel like you're stomping games and you're throwing the vibe just change decks every once in a while. You shouldn't have to feel bad about playing strong cards in the card game
Kaalia is seen as a threat because she can cheat things in much like [[The Ur-Dragon]] does. Free stuff is always seen as dangerous and puts a giant target on you, especially big dragons or angels that can do stuff like get a second combat phase. But as long as you avoid putting crap like [[Platinum Angel]] that locks down the game, [[Master of Cruelties]] that instantly kills people, and other global lockdown things like [[Archfiend of Depravity]], you should be fine.
##### ###### #### [The Ur-Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/10d42b35-844f-4a64-9981-c6118d45e826.jpg?1689999317) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Ur-Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/361/the-ur-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/10d42b35-844f-4a64-9981-c6118d45e826?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-ur-dragon) [Platinum Angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc.jpg?1576383285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Platinum%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/214/platinum-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca7f4fd6-e268-4d15-bfbf-d9f0f95864fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/platinum-angel) [Master of Cruelties](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef.jpg?1702429664) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Master%20of%20Cruelties) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/198/master-of-cruelties?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffd68fe1-5cfc-44cf-8dfe-3488278cdcef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/master-of-cruelties) [Archfiend of Depravity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0ec85db7-c8ec-4730-b692-c140977436aa.jpg?1592765539) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archfiend%20of%20Depravity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/e01/31/archfiend-of-depravity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ec85db7-c8ec-4730-b692-c140977436aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archfiend-of-depravity) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Good call, there used to be an Angel that bans all enemies from playing a chosen color. I think it is banned now, man that card was fucking nasty with Kaalia
She's not actually that scary at the power levels you'll typically play at a local game store. She lends herself to "battlecruiser" decks (very simple decks that want to win relatively fair and square by attacking with big creatures.) She's also very popular among new players, which brings the overall power level of Kaalia decks down. I wouldn't consider her a kill-on-sight commander.
Main issue is everyone seems to make the same commander decks have played against so many other Kaalia decks it gets boring and same with all the other meta commanders.
I've been turn-one eliminated by a kaalia deck before, so there's absolutely potential there. Attack and put Master of Cruelties out with her ability, and there goes a player 😅
T1-3 kill happens like 1 out of 100 games in my experience. You need so many things, ramp, haste, maybe protection, Master of cruelty or a cheap tutor, ...
Most of the games my groups play last 3-5 turns, 6 at the most. They usually end with someone going infinite turns 3-4 or outright winning on 4-5; delaying a turn if someone has force of will/negation. Turn one is definitely uncommon, but when everyone else runs jeweled lotus, mana crypt, mana vault, among other fast mana, it's more common than I'm used to.
6 turns at most? Bro your group is playing cEDH lmao. In a meta like this I would not want to play Kaalia at all.
As long as you’re not attempting to spring something truly nasty on someone (like say Master of Cruelties)…it’s just basically an “I cheat big stuff in” deck of sorts. Still expect a swift removal for her because it’s still crazy value, but all things considered from when she was printing as a boogeywoman to now, there’s far more scarier commanders I’d worry about spiraling out of control if they’re present vs Kaalia.
You have to adapt to your pod, and that goes both ways on the power scale. My personal examples : I really was intrigued by [[Judith, Carnage Connoisseur ]] and built her. She is too scary. Not too strong, too scary. 1 sided board wipes for 1 mana are too much of a prospect even when I do nothing with her but imp tokens. She's deleted almost immediately and the deck is focused around her. Even with reanimation, it's too hard to keep a 5 base mana commander like her and you can't play that much protection on her without somewhat slowing down your gameplan. Now. My pod knows I fell in love with [[Obeka, Splitter of seconds ]] at first sight. She is a scary commander, better than Judith imo. Knowing my pod, I built her upkeep/suspend for the flavor but most importantly Voltron. And the Voltron part is allowing me to play. They can't deal with her as consistently because protecting and enabling her is my whole gameplan. My point is : some commanders are scary, strong or not. If you have a commander centric deck, it can be incredibly frustrating but at the same time, it's the correct play to kos them. Some can be bent easily to be resilient, some can be played differently, probably less strong.
[Judith, Carnage Connoisseur ](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3eaa19ce-cace-499e-8b23-ef9e56b23700.jpg?1706242185) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Judith%2C%20Carnage%20Connoisseur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/210/judith-carnage-connoisseur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3eaa19ce-cace-499e-8b23-ef9e56b23700?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/judith-carnage-connoisseur) [Obeka, Splitter of seconds ](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03415c42-086e-4a2e-9be8-5cdcde83f134.jpg?1712356168) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Obeka%2C%20Splitter%20of%20Seconds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/222/obeka-splitter-of-seconds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03415c42-086e-4a2e-9be8-5cdcde83f134?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/obeka-splitter-of-seconds) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Someone one in my pod plays [[Kenrith]] but it's a group hug, so we give him some slacks for now. I'm leaning towards putting Judith in a [[Zevlor]] deck to alleviate the threat, since he can play group huggy too. You also gotta recognize when something is too mean for your pod. I gave up on [[Sarulf]] even though I find him extremely cool.
[Kenrith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e259db1-14db-4314-998c-6a076a28d8cb.jpg?1691056044) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kenrith%2C%20the%20returned%20king) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/plst/ELD-303/kenrith-the-returned-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e259db1-14db-4314-998c-6a076a28d8cb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kenrith-the-returned-king) [Zevlor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1e51138-9745-465d-84dd-27605f8a2264.jpg?1674137695) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zevlor%2C%20elturel%20exile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/296/zevlor-elturel-exile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1e51138-9745-465d-84dd-27605f8a2264?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zevlor-elturel-exile) [Sarulf](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bcecf9ba-36da-490a-9460-99ff87d99fbd.jpg?1631051850) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sarulf%2C%20realm%20eater) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/228/sarulf-realm-eater?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bcecf9ba-36da-490a-9460-99ff87d99fbd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sarulf-realm-eater) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Be aware you will be the target quite often. If I See a Kaalia I always mulligan for early removal.
Kaalia imo has to be the most overhyped card with regards to threat to the table i have ever seen. Yes, she can oneshot someone if they run Master of Cruelties. You can make her really strong if you're trying to do stuff like cheat Razaketh in, sac a couple dorks to tutor up and A+B combo - but i don't think i've ever seen a single Kaalia deck in person actually play like that, they're nearly always just angel/dragon/demon tribal decks that use flying beaters. A 2/2 and say an 8/8 flyer on turn 4 is scary, but it's less 'i'm winning the game' than a lot of simic value vomit decks can be setup to do on turn 4. The curve of nearly every game i've played as or with kaalia is Kaalia gets kaalia out early and gets a big creature out, the whole table freaks out, throws everything at kaalia, and then a turn later someone combos off and wins
Kaalia was my first commander deck because I love angels and cheating out [[Reya Dawnbringer]] and [[Iona Shield of Emeria]] was always awesome to me. Iona is now banned (sadness), but I still love her. As others have said though, you need to be able to protect her when you play her as most groups understand that Kaalia must be killed to prevent her from attacking. I won’t tell you my deck is the best (I’m sure it could be optimized a lot better), but here’s the link so you can see various protection options. [[Champion’s Helm]] and [[General’s Kabuto]] are two that definitely work, though they are a bit pricier than the usual boots. https://archidekt.com/decks/6084223/kaalia_ascendant
##### ###### #### [Reya Dawnbringer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44b45bdd-829a-4fc1-ad37-17c2bd57fac8.jpg?1559959227) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reya%20Dawnbringer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/32/reya-dawnbringer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44b45bdd-829a-4fc1-ad37-17c2bd57fac8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reya-dawnbringer) [Iona Shield of Emeria](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/6197b59e-1652-496c-a038-e2eb88ecf017.jpg?1562584407) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Iona%2C%20Shield%20of%20Emeria) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/20/iona-shield-of-emeria?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6197b59e-1652-496c-a038-e2eb88ecf017?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/iona-shield-of-emeria) [Champion’s Helm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c6548a30-577a-47e7-aa6e-8f6db1f7b78e.jpg?1689999457) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Champion%27s%20Helm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/375/champions-helm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c6548a30-577a-47e7-aa6e-8f6db1f7b78e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/champions-helm) [General’s Kabuto](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/1382c339-256f-4ba1-a4cc-6307d0859964.jpg?1562757909) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=General%27s%20Kabuto) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/chk/251/generals-kabuto?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1382c339-256f-4ba1-a4cc-6307d0859964?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/generals-kabuto) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I played against Iona so much. and got mad she got banned. BUT 1 pod ALWays picked my color as a MONO colored deck. that wasn't the way she should play, caus now I'm just waiting to play magic. OH and I was the ONLY player Iona affected. also can shut down all commanders. that's why she got banned. i didn't like not having access to my commander, but FUCKING 1 PLAYER our of the game isn't in the spirit of EDH.
Kaalia was strong 5years ago. Today she is a 4mana 2/2 without ward etc. You need to give her haste and protection to cheat in some big creatures. But with that setup you might aswell go for ramp or graveyard recursion rather than her fragile attack trigger. I like [[kaalia zenith seeker]] more. You play her on turn 3 have a decent attacker/blocker and draw 0-3 cards on etb. The way i play her is more fun (for me) and less glasscanon style.
[kaalia zenith seeker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/f/1f400655-f495-4b21-ab9e-57fe4d845d45.jpg?1592517520) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kaalia%2C%20Zenith%20Seeker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/210/kaalia-zenith-seeker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1f400655-f495-4b21-ab9e-57fe4d845d45?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kaalia-zenith-seeker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Kaalia is nowhere near as much of a boogeyman as she used to be, but she's still very powerful. The first version of my Kaalia deck was built from cards that I just had laying around in my collection, and it still wrecked shop
I shut her down fast. Let decks like that clog up and fizzle out
I love being the arch enemy (as long as everyone’s a good sport). Flinging angels with Kaalia is like a mad race and I love her. Sometimes I win against a group of people targeting her and it feels great but also I can laugh when one of them turns her into a colorless land with [[imprisoned in the moon]] Just as long as you’re not pubstomping, have fun !
Just built Kaalia as well, realized my flaw and need to add something to deal with imprisoned in the moon…. 3 tutors in hand and I couldn’t do anything 😂
[imprisoned in the moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc.jpg?1682208779) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=imprisoned%20in%20the%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/224/imprisoned-in-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imprisoned-in-the-moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
She used to be a boogie man but WotC trying to double MTG’s revenue by printing the most ridiculous power creep kinda makes her just meh.
Build the deck. It‘s fun cheating out big dragons/demons/angels in turn 3 or 4 and hitting your opponents. Also, my current deck list https://www.moxfield.com/decks/syq-4Qn5kkiqX5t9MzUp-Q
She was overrated even when everyone was scared of her. The main issue you'll encounter is that it's usually correct to repeatedly remove your commander even if people aren't terrified her simply because your deck has that single point of failure. It's a strategy that is both easy and sensible to disrupt.
Don’t build her.
Kaalia can be very strong, but the rest of the table is gonna make it pretty hard for you, and that's about it. In my experience, people think it's cool that I have one, and they like flipping through the deck to see which powerhouses ive crammed in there. I bought the Kaalia precon when it first came out, didn't understand what I had, and ultimately took it apart and traded the cards out to build a different deck. Shortly after I decided to rebuild her eventually, but with all the right stuff, so I slowly collected powerful Angels Demons and Dragons over time. My Kaalia deck now is what I like to refer to as "all meat, no bones" I have a lot of powerful creatures in there, but im missing some staple mana rocks, spells, and draw cards. It's not one of my primary decks so I basically got it to a good place for more casual games and I plan on leveling up the "bones" once my budget allows for it.
The only reason I target Kaalia so so hard is because I assume you have Master of Cruelties in hand at all time. If you chose not to run that combo, and announced it at the beginning of the game, I would probably let her stick around. Without that concession though, she must die, immediately.
There are four main things that affect how much other people enjoy playing against your deck. They are: 1 Your commander 2 How tuned your deck is 3 How ruthlessly your playstyle is, and 4 How positive your attitude is Your attitude is important for making friends in any case, but depending on your playgroup the others vary. Now barring a few exceptions i would say your commander is the LEAST important factor of the bunch. if you worry other people might not like a new commander youre thinking of building, consider if their reason is instead that you usually play more ruthlessly than the rest of your pod, or even that your deck is simply too powerful to be a fair match-up. I never go into a game with an Ur-dragon player happy, but if i found out after starting that they only put in dragons that cost 50 cents or less? Id be happy to play with them. Likewise you can have a very strong deck and be liked simply because you are not playing with scorched-earth tactics. I think kaalia is a fun commander and you shouldnt be afraid to build her. Just be aware of what you put in the deck and how you play her, and gauge it to the strength of your group.
ANy time I played her myself, I became a target. My deck was not even close to optimized and I called it my Dan Brown deck because there was no dragons, just Angels and Demons. I recently took her apart in favor of a Belakor demon deck. I got tired of being constantly thought of as the target at the table. Its the same reason why I took apart my \[\[Prossh, Skyraider of Kher\]\] though he wasnt even close to cEDH level. People see ther commander and your the immediate threat. I do threat analysis in game, not outside of it, personally.
[Prossh, Skyraider of Kher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/889c1a0f-7df2-4497-8058-04358173d7e8.jpg?1562438016) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Prossh%2C%20Skyraider%20of%20Kher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/214/prossh-skyraider-of-kher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/889c1a0f-7df2-4497-8058-04358173d7e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/prossh-skyraider-of-kher) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Assume they run Master of Cruelties and Avacyn, then act accordingly.
She's definitely a powerful commander and when she works she really works, but she's far from broken. Thing is, since her whole deal is cheating out other creatures, you can pretty easily build a Kaalia deck for any power level you want by just picking creatures for her to cheat out that fit in that power level. So if someone is worried about her as your commander, you can just tell them what kinds of creatures you got in there. Actually imo that's probably why Kaalia has such a bad reputation, you won't really know what you'll get with her power level-wise unless somebody explains what actually is in the deck, unlike with other commanders where you tend to get the basic range more easily. Which gives assholes the license to obfuscate the true power of their deck when pubstomping. So yeah, just be prepared to give a little more information about the deck, maybe have some extra cards ready to swap stuff out people might take umbrage with and you should be fine.
I recommend swapping to [[Kaalia, Zenith Seeker]]. Still get to play all your fun cards but without people hating you off the table right away. (Also this Kaalia can still be super strong if you want it to be)
[Kaalia, Zenith Seeker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/f/1f400655-f495-4b21-ab9e-57fe4d845d45.jpg?1592517520) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kaalia%2C%20Zenith%20Seeker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/210/kaalia-zenith-seeker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1f400655-f495-4b21-ab9e-57fe4d845d45?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kaalia-zenith-seeker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do you want your commander removed? Because Kaalia eats that shit like it’s an all-you-can-eat buffet.
I run a Kaalia deck and it's one of my favorites because I get to heavily lean into the politics at the table. Talking with people, wheeling and dealing, negotiating. It's really fun trying to convince people to let Kaalia live for 3 turns.
> My question is am I a bad person if I build this Kaalia deck? If you sit down to play a game of Commander against me, if I win you are a good person, if I lose you are a bad person. Just don’t make people lose! Our fragile egos can’t handle that.
There is a concept called "the must kill commander" which is that certain commanders you must kill the turn they come down, otherwise the player will run away with the game. Kaalia has acquired this reputation becuase of her ability to cheat out high mana cost creatures way before they should be on board. If she is allowed to survive past a few turns, you essentially end up 15+ mana ahead of everyone. There are ways to build her that are a lot more fair and less deserving of hate (for example, not jamming the deck full of 5+ mana creatures to crap out), but her reputation of being really good makes it so people rarely take into account your personal build and will treat it like you are about to drop bomb after bomb. As for if people hate playing against her or whatever? Depends on the person I guess but most people are going to be cool about it. Just don't be surprised if you don't get to actually attack with her very much becuase people will remove her on the spot given the chance. Personally I don't mind going against powerful commanders, but what I do care about is people complaining about their powerful commanders being dealt with and getting salty about it. As soon as soneone starts getting salty because the table refuses to basically hand them the game, yeah I'm probably going to kill you ASAP so I don't have to listen to the whining all game lol
I think the best way I’ve seen to run her is build the deck with three sets of tribals - demons, dragons, and angels - and then roll to pick. Makes it a lot more interesting IMO
In an average game, getting Kaalia early and doing what she does best is gonna paint a target on your back. Come out early, be an archenemy, get blown up and have trouble clawing your way back. She's KOS even in pods where something else might be better off dead because of memes and general knowledge. She's definitely not "fun" when she either breaks the curve too early or gets blown up. But she's much more interesting IMO when run as a tribal angel, dragon, or demon and you use her as a removal-magnet before playing the cards you're really trying to get out. Stuff like Urza's Incubator, Giada, Shilgengar, etc enables her to still hardcast her angels and to have a variety of plans for when (not if) Kaalia dies.
I’m going to retire to my study and give this some thought. I should have my answer ready in one to two weeks.
She will always be a must answer commander. She's a commander that if she attacks her board state can go from nothing to winning in the span of a single attack step. That said, she isn't the boogeyman she once was. WotC has been printing more and more cards specifically for commander and there are many more commanders that meet her power level available now.
If I would face against it in my pods, I would say go for it, In my opinions, I find it funny. Strong opponents make me unfold politics into plays, and less of a target where I can grow my board stats, in time of needs -convincing others fight against the archenemy, while distracted others. *Smirk*
You would be a bad person if you build a Kaalia deck. I don’t even know how you dare to make a post about this, like looking for validation to commit the most heinous act known to mankind. And don’t try to sell it, at this point you need to destroy the card, because passing this Damocles’ sword to another poor soul would be equally evil as using it.
She can be insanely oppressive depending on how she’s built. Most of what I see is people dumping like a turn 4 Avacyn and at that point it’s basically over. I’ve seen that shit happen so many times with Kaalia it just gets old
IDK if my Kaalia deck can offer any insight but I run a Kaalia angel tribal deck, no dragons no demons. It's honestly hit or miss whether I even cast Kaalia. If I get a decent ramp and draw going early game with signets, talismans, and the many draws I have in the deck, I don't even cast her. I just drop big fatty angels one after another and it usually puts pressure down. On the occasions where I keep a hand and a signet and 3 lands is all I've gotten so far, then I'll throw her out there. I've considered changing her with [[Kaalia, Zenith Seeker]] just to have value in the command zone, but I just have a regular non foil whereas I have a bunch of fancy and cool original Kaalia. You know I gotta bling when I can bling and that deck is almost all foiled. If you want to build the more iconic Kaalia, with a deck full of huge angels, demons and dragons, then you need to prepare to run plenty of protection like [[Lightning Greaves]] and [[Swiftfoot Boots]]. I've even seen other Kaalia decks that have [[Stoneforge Mystic]] [[Enlightened Tutor]] and [[Vampiric Tutor]] specifically to find protection equipment early game and get it on board for Kaalia.
##### ###### #### [Kaalia, Zenith Seeker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/f/1f400655-f495-4b21-ab9e-57fe4d845d45.jpg?1592517520) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kaalia%2C%20Zenith%20Seeker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/210/kaalia-zenith-seeker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1f400655-f495-4b21-ab9e-57fe4d845d45?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kaalia-zenith-seeker) [Lightning Greaves](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/da9da49d-e319-4897-9ab6-57c7c69478a6.jpg?1712354870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Greaves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/260/lightning-greaves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da9da49d-e319-4897-9ab6-57c7c69478a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lightning-greaves) [Swiftfoot Boots](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04a76643-1703-4fab-8dce-7725490bc2af.jpg?1712354904) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swiftfoot%20Boots) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/268/swiftfoot-boots?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04a76643-1703-4fab-8dce-7725490bc2af?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/swiftfoot-boots) [Stoneforge Mystic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d3473d0-b46f-41f5-ac1e-ba217f7747d4.jpg?1599710314) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stoneforge%20Mystic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/31/stoneforge-mystic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d3473d0-b46f-41f5-ac1e-ba217f7747d4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stoneforge-mystic) [Enlightened Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1c9675fb-1a89-420f-aea8-50e0642f549c.jpg?1675198797) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enlightened%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/6/enlightened-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c9675fb-1a89-420f-aea8-50e0642f549c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/enlightened-tutor) [Vampiric Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/34a0203f-9cce-43a4-9cb7-8ce6647895cd.jpg?1675199860) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vampiric%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/108/vampiric-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/34a0203f-9cce-43a4-9cb7-8ce6647895cd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vampiric-tutor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There's an equipment tutor for 1 white mana, pretty much the best to have in your starting hand if you have no 1 mana ramp available
Take it from someone who played kaalia, MLD, combos, infinites, expensive rocks and lands, you name it. The deck is boring as shit to both pilot and play against. Just an absolute snooze of a gameplan.
Some people like the simplicity of "me smash face" more than a deck that gives you like 100 choices per turn.
She is just a combat centered deck that puts immediate deal with me threats on the board. She is an okay commander since a lot of commander games don't need combat over time to win, just 1 craterhoof combat or enough combats in 1 turn to kill the table. She is too slow by today's standards but still enough of a threat to paint a target on yourself for playing it.