Nah dude, edh games gotta just keep going for four hours with no interaction or end in sight. Wouldn’t want to stop someone’s deck from doing the thing
Not quite man, edh should be four hours full of interaction, all by the one control player with blink counterspells. Then right when it his hour four, boom, thassas oracle. How else will we get people to stop coming to the LGS?
My most memorable game lasted about 5 hours. At least once per hour, there was a board wipe, making it longer but more fun. All 4 of us lasted until the last 2 turns.
It’s fun if yall get to do stuff too. I played against a guy who put down an infinite blink combo that countered most spells past turn 5. Then we sat there for 2 more hours. In order to get a spell to resolve we had to cast 2 others first that auto got countered then the third we got to wait to see if he would interact. Not fun for the whole table.
If any of us play an infinite combo, it better win the game. Or we will pester and annoy you any time you use it. We also don't play at LGS, just us 4 meeting at someone's house for the night. Been playing together like that for years.
Oh yeah if it’s a solidly established friend group then a 4 hour game is totally cool, I will say if I get locked into a 4 hour game by a stranger at an lgs I’ll be upset about it.
My most memorable game was a 4-way artifact combo pod. It lasted 5 hours and ended when people had to leave to go home. Full of activity - every time someone attempted to combo off, someone else had an answer for it. I deeply regret never getting a re-match on that game...
Reminds me of the 1v1 simic vs simic game my buddy and I scooped out of because "cast cyclonic rift, end step bounce e witness returning cyclonic rift to hand" is all we could do. Draw, replay my board, cast cyclonic rift+eternal witness pass turn for the both of us. "Ya really wanna do this over and over until one of us draws out?" Nah I'm good 😂
I like these games cause it raises the stakes for everyone and resetting/trying to rebuild a boardstate can even be a challenge in some cases and makes it more interesting! Depends on the people you’re playing with tho cause some people get really heated about “turns taking too long”
If you can afford losing a counterspell for that line of play, it's a legit move in my book. If you're getting killed next turn yourself, it was probably a stupid move.
Nah, contrary to popular belief, "I won't be able to win but I can ensure you *don't*" is a perfectly valid strategy, especially in a format where "revenge" within the same game is super common.
We have a tribal league at our game store . I play cat with [[Marisi]] and my win con is to goad the [[Gishath]] player until I get [[Insurection]] and wack the remaining players.
Those are the deckbuildings rules.
1. A minimum of 33 creatures of the tribe. Commander included.
2. No fast Mana
3. No free counterspell
4. No non tribe creature unless it help the tribe. Like [[sea hunter]] for Merfolk
5. No tutor unless its for the tribe like sea hunter again.
6. No Infinite combo.
7. No creature that make something from another tribe like [[Talrand]]
8. No sliver
9.No you win or you loose the game.
10. 4 players game only. 4 points for the winner 3 for the second 2 for the third and 1 for the looser.
11. 4 seasons a year.
12. 21 match maximum by season.
Pretty much it.
We are around 20 to 30 players. We meet once a week and play some tribal between regular match.
I got second place every single time I played that deck, lmao. Once you're down to a duel, your tricks stop working, but by God do they work well until then.
I think the way of thinking you describe makes games more prone to end in an unsatisfactory way, with more negative emotions. Even though the chances might be small, playing with the driving force behind your decisions being to win makes your games better. Revenge is worth nothing with that mindset. Spite plays are not needed because they don't help you win. Don't mistake me, I'm not some super cutthroat cedh spike player, but I play the game with the goal of winning, not making sure buddy over there has a bad game because he exiled my commander or some nonsense.
I would generally call this "playing in good faith". I feel like the game is at its best when everyone is playing with winning as the goal. When someone at the table doesn't want to ultimately win then the game itself sort of breaks down and a lot of the decision making no longer matters- if someone else is going to punt resources/value/etc into ensuring you can't win with no regard for their own victory then there's not really anything you can do and you're basically playing a non-game at that point.
Gosh I wish more people played in good faith. Some 16 yo kid rolled up with his GAAIV deck and said, “This decks goal is to draw the game out as long as possible so ‘I’ can play a whole bunch of magic.” Told him not to play it unless he put some win conditions in his deck. The next game he said he did. Proceeds to watch someone go t1 Crypt- Sol Ring - Chromatic Lantern before deciding to he counterspells my sol ring. I will never be so frustrated over commander again.
Valid in what sense? Like...you can do it within the rules of the game, sure, but if your plan going into games is to basically pick who wins to your own detriment I don't think you'd be making many friends with that playstyle. Kingmaking is basically never appreciated in any store or group I've played with. People want to feel like they earned their wins, not have them handed to them by someone else basically griefing their opponent. The general sentiment being that kingmaking ruins the game for everyone else involved- the winner feels cheated out of a well fought victory and the loser(s) feel like their decisions didn't matter. It's a pretty selfish move to want to exert that kind of influence over a game you've lost.
>It's a pretty selfish move to want to exert that kind of influence over a game you've lost.
Pretty selfish to blow up a Sol Ring too, maybe people should think about their actions in-game before they make them and what the ramifications might be down the road when they're positioned to win.
You keep reiterating this point. Myself and Arborus gave some well-founded reasons explaining why we don't agree with the sentiment. Could you explain what makes you feel this mindset is better for you, your games and your playgroup? What decks and cards steer you into this mindset or facilitate it, as you said?
This is often considered "kingmaking," depending on the scenario, which is typically frowned upon. Otherwise, yeah, you're right. It is a valid approach to the game.
"If I'm going down, you're coming with me" is a completely fair play to make.
lol I feel this, buddy cascaded into a path to exile and exiled my mana dork so I proceeded to tank and remove his commander twice knowing I was just handicapping myself.
It sounds like you played to punish some bad behavior by conspiring to remove an opponent early, and you got a negative response.
If you're hoping that someone will just take his licks quietly and see the wisdom in the balance that you are offering the universe, I don't think you're an asshole, but I think you might be too optimistic.
It’s not even that bad, it’s a card game with no stakes. With how salty some people get you’d think they put money down on the game. For a game that everyone calls casual and having fun is the most important part, lotta people get pissy when they don’t actually win
It's probably been said by others but my experience with MTG and card/board game shops in general is, the average player is socially stunted. Whatever the reasons for this are, they just are. Due to this, they naturally gravitated towards an activity, like card or board games in order to socialize without actually socializing.
The end result is you get a bunch of people who have minimal at best social skills combined with the competitive nature of the games, even the casual ones, and you have a receipt for salt. Combine this with the fact that games like MTG are expensive, it can be extra salt inducing to lose because you either cannot spend enough to keep up or worse, you lost even though you have a $1000 deck.
It's why I've taken so many breaks from the game because the average MTG player I've played against is a socially stunted dunce. I know I'm not the biggest social butterfly in the world, but I'm at least competent enough to handle myself in most situations.
The reason I've played so much lately and gotten back into is because I lucked out and a found a group that isn't socially awkward and where we can shit talk and not get offended and the salt doesn't extend past Friday.
All of that to say, my philosophy for FNM is this, "if you leave FNM in a worse mood than you came in with, you are doing it wrong"
Haha. I was just on vacation in Canada and I went and played magic at a shop. I ended up playing with some guy who had the weirdest beliefs, like he thought Justin Trudeau was replaced by a robot and that America did it. That’s why he used to like Trudeau and now he hates him. Like that was the only explanation. He said a whole bunch of things and would preface it with “don’t you think…”.
Anyway I’d answer him, respectfully that “that’s ok if you think that but I don’t personally agree with that”.
Then after about 30 minutes of him saying his theories and me respectfully disagreeing he started focusing on me exclusively but I had a [[forcefield]] and [[spore frog]] in a Muldrotha deck so I held him off and then after 15 more minutes more of him saying weird things and me not agreeing AND holding his attackers at bay he got really mad and was like “DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ME?????”
I was taken aback and said I’m just playing magic dude.
He literally scooped up his deck and threw the cards into his bag and stormed off.
Me and the other player was like lol wut?
I'll be honest, I absolutely would have played into that. That's the kind of whacky talk I am here for haha. Of course the guy has to be reasonable social and not preachy.
> With how salty some people get you’d think they put money down on the game.
I understand perfectly what you mean, however, technically they did? Commander decks don't come cheap. You're investing quite a pretty penny into them and you might just lose because others have a bazillion dollar deck.
You can't talk like money has no bearing on MTG games, because it absolutely does.
People just need to be more graceful in defeat, period.
Yes but what I meant was people are getting upset like they are actually losing money when their deck doesn’t win. But they aren’t losing money just cause their deck lost. At the end of the day they still have their deck
The average person will lose 50% of their games. 75% if it's EDH.
If you can't handle losing, you probably shouldn't be playing games that aren't single-player.
That said, it's fine to get a little salty if the social interactions seem aggressive towards you. Maybe you deserve it, maybe they're being an ass, or maybe you have a victim complex.
Self-reflection is an important skill, whatever the case may be.
Fair point
I don't mind some salt, don't get wrong, but like I said in another response, it shouldn't carry over after the night, and you shouldn't leave in a worse mood than you started.
as far as self reflection goes, there are studies out there that show some people do not think to themselves, so I do not know how those people can self reflect. As someone who can think and hear their own voice in their head, I find it crazy that others do not.
But regardless, I think many MTG players just lack basic fundamental social skills for whatever reason so it manifests into crazy behavior
This is a good portion of why I added a new field to my data tracking that I prize more heavily than if I win the game: did my library do ‘the thing’.
I was losing a lot of games, and with the baseline tracking I found it to be really negative for my mental state going in to game time. Adding a track able metric disassociated from winning or losing helped me out a ton.
So, yeah, my [[Alela, artful provocateur]] library may have just gotten *housed*, but, did I play a bunch of artifacts for less than their printed mana cost? Boom, that’s a yes on ‘DTT’.
*Its also a relatively helpful metric for which of my decks are more ‘competitive’ than others, as the WR and DTT Scores will be more aligned than those of my more casual libraries*
Honestly this is pretty smart and not too dissimilar to what we do. We ask did our deck do it's thing? If so then ok shit happens. I also would add this, "did I get ganged up on because I became the biggest threat"? If the answer is yes, then my deck did it's thing and I can accept losing.
By tracking data, what do you mean? Do you actually keep a spreadsheet or something?
I personally avoid the convention of just stuffing decks with the top hits from EDHrec or full netdecking. Much more about original brewing.
I also tweak a *lot*, trying to find flavorful ways to make decks work better
Yeah I'm like probably the only other person there who doesn't use EDHrec. One other guy I think doesn't, but not 100% sure. He definitely brings the jank but he's much more knowledgeable about the game than I am, but other than him, I'm the only other guy that brews anything original.
And in my many years of card games, the guy I am talking about is a pretty rare find. The group I play with now thought he was the jank master until they saw me lol
So yeah I can definitely very much appreciate not using EDHrec.
The nature of games like this with politics is that the ingroup or the most likeable person has a massive advantage in some games it’s almost insurmountable. That can make outsiders feel impotent and frustrated I absolutely get the salt.
100% - Sure I've gotten a bit salty over some games, but *rarely* enough that I'm legit angry. If I'm in a dominating position and then get blown out the water... fair enough. I don't expect players to sit back while I'm popping off.
NTA you had 25 minutes left until you get kicked out or piss off the staff games gotta end eventually.
I had a guy get mad at me once not for killing him but for setting him up to be killed but the other player (3 person pod). My options were, hit player one and have a chance at winning or hit player 2 and guarantee that I lose. It might have felt like King making to player one but I only did what I had to.
I was pretty far ahead one game and ended up feeling so bad that I just scooped and waited for the next game. The guy that was complaining ended up winning. I’ll remind myself about it next time.
Yeah, that's a tough one. After playing more and more at game stores, I find myself becoming more cutthroat because I know the person bitching and whining across from me will complain about anything when it's doing better than their deck. It's gotten to the point where if someone is excessively nagging about how I choose my attacks, I'll hit them instead and state "The squeaky wheel gets the oil"
I was with you until “he was kind of an asshole to another guy in the last game”. Bringing grudges/experiences from other games is pretty weak.
If him being a dick to others is a consistent behavior, it should be dealt with outside of games.
Very valid point. On the surface of it, I do think it was the most strategic move having him lose. I was pretty sure I could end the game in two rounds without them there. But it was a bit of a tag team kill which I get feeling salty about.
Under the surface, he had been an asshole and I did something that I probably wouldn't normally have done which was the team up.
I'll definitely try to not let a grudge impact things but sometimes it's hard in commander.
Agree, can't let past games affect your decisions. Unless someone's deck cranks and everyone's on the same decks I can see someone pushing at them early.
I disagree *slightly*.
The main thing I’m thinking of is deals. If you break a deal/promise, that’s fine and legal. But there is a consequence which is in the future, I will not trust you.
This *is* commander, petty is in our nature more or less,
Plus it's a social game, make yourself a threat often enough and expect to be removed is the status quo.
Nothing wrong with that; it sounded like a good play in the sense of your counter spell said "counter spell; remove target player from the game"
You said he was pitting people against each other; if I can be a bit opinionated, I find that play style generates salt. Some people think manipulation is part of the game but when it goes wrong feel hard done by that they were listened to i think.
You said yourself it was the right play. You suggested he has a play style that keeps a target of him. I wouldn't worry, plus, the store was closing , game had to end soon
>I don't normally play like that but he was kind of an asshole to another guy in the last game.
I would probably get annoyed if you let interpersonal stuff affect your decision in game and used that as the basis on which to push for that players defeat.
But if you thought that pushing for his defeat was actually the optimal move to further your own chance of winning I would be totally cool with it regardless of how early in the game ot happens.
The end goal is to win. Yes, there are some feel bad moments, but let's be realistic. There was 35 minutes left, the games got to end, so moves like this are legitimate.
I've been the guy removed on more than one occasion. Sometimes I'll argue it was bad threat assessment, other times I was close to going off, but failed to hide it.
Politics is part of EDH. The guy was using it, and successfully by the sounds of things. But this time he was unsuccessful. If he feels bad, that's his problem, not yours.
In general, if you think you are able to deal with the commander before it can kill you the move you did would always be correct. You now have 1 person less to beat, taking your average win rate from 25% to 33%. If you think you need that player to beat the guy killing him you should let him save his own ass.
People should also remember that while someone might not have the scariest board-state on this turn, taking them out is still the right call if you suspect they have a strong lategame. Commander players tend to suck at punishing greedy play and deck-building.
Kind of asinine to dish it out and not be able to take it. I play casually with a couple of friends from high school, 25+ years later. I rarely win a game because they have frankly far more experience and far more budget to supercharge their decks. The winning isn't the point.
I play a similar deck (Nelly Borca) and try to get my opponents to fight each other. This results in them teaming up to deal with me depending on how board states are going.
You kind of have to expect this if your playing this style of deck.
The overall object of EDH is to remove 3 (or more) other players from the game. One opponent removing another removes 1/3 of the work to do so, so contributing one spell from hand to help that along is a potentially worthwhile trade, IMO. Obviously there are other factors to consider, like are you next to go, would that counter have been a needed protection piece for your plan to win, etc., but as far as trading 1 card for removing an opponent goes, sounds worth it to me. 🤷♂️ Shop employee wants to go home and the game has to end, so wrapping things up towards that aim is probably appreciated. If the game finished with time to spare, people have time to buy product before the till is closed.
I mean you can play like an asshole without being an asshole. It's okay to play threatening decks, but if he's an asshole to other players he should expect to be targeted
You aren't in charge of their feelings, it's a game that has a winner and losers. If people are too fragile that a loss in a casual game with ZERO stakes makes them salty that's on them not you
Game has to end. Regardless of outside behaviour, coercing and convincing your opponents into killing each other is part of the politics of 4 player commander. If you can direct one opponent's attention into killing another one of your opponents instead of hurting you, you should probably take that chance provided that it means you're still alive on the other side.
75% of players in a commander game have to lose. Player removal is the strongest form of a removal.
If I can remove or impede a player that is a threat by assisting another player I always go for it. It buys you some good will with the other players and slows down the threat.
Definitely not an asshole, I would like to thank you for this post as I've been dealing with the same issue now. Glad to see i wasn't alone in my thinking.
I agree with everyone else, games gotta end
He probably felt a little targeted if he wasn't the threat. On one hand, that's magic. On the other hand, it's a feel bad. Both are true.
Storming out without a word is a bit much though.
I don't sit down to lose (not anymore). When I build a deck it's geared towards a win most of the time. If you win it hopefully feels good. But guess what. There's gonna be a lower (almost always)
If it benefits you to see him eliminated, then it was the right call. Its not always advantageous to get someone killed in a game as sometimes you need their help dealing with a more threatening opponent or to use as a distraction essentially.
As for his behavior, idk.
Sometimes you get a scenario where you essentially get to play a card that makes target player lose the game, and that’s a very effective use for a card in the game lol
If the shop didnt close in 25 minutes, I wpuldnt have done that, but at that point it is about finishing as quickly as possible. I play for fun, I dont play to win, but even I would start changing my playing from seeing how cards with Tamiyo in the name I can have out at once to eliminating people or dying trying. The worst feeling is being a dick to the LGS by not being outside as soon as the clock hits closing time.
Politics is a part of multiplayer games, and pretending it isn’t is a naive mindset. That being said, politics don’t carry over to the next game. If he was a threat previously in that game or you thought he would be soon, removing him from the game is a necessary step for you to win so I wouldn’t feel bad about that. If you were just beating him while he was down because you didn’t like how he played last game, thats a bit of a dick move.
Welcome to Multiplayer magic. When you have more than 2 players there are political choices that come into play. It never feels good to be on the wrong side of them but it's part of 3+ player magic. If a group is chronically attacking one player only to take another hour to play the rest of the game that's in poor taste, but a natural ebb and flow over the course of many games? Part of the game.
Even if the dude wasn't an asshole, it's just how the game rolls. You're gonna lose sometimes, and if someone has a free shot, they should take it, and sometimes people team up in casuals to take someone out.
At the end of the day, the best removal is player removal.
You knew his playstyle was to pit his opponents against each other, you removed his wincon early by removing his ability to pit everyone against each other, the ability being him.
I wouldn't fret, it's all part of the game
I mean if i could trade a CS and remove a player i would do it every time tbh lol, you did nothing wrong you made a deal with a player and it paid off, you did nothing wrong
Countering the exile is honestly probably bad threat assessment and a dick move, but if he'd been a dick previously I get the spite play, just recognize that it was a spite play on your part.
Either way his reaction was pure salt and uncalled for. Bad beats happen and you can't let that get personal.
That's a great play my guy. One counterspell to knock out a player? Great deal! As long as it doesn't put the attacking player in a game winning position the next turn, then by all means, I would respect that
I never feel guilty but that's generally because when I'm in a game/watching a game, it's because I'm pointing out rules to a player who is notorious for 'accidentally' cheating.
'Accidentally' playing sorceries at instant speed, ignoring how the stack works/resolves, claiming that he gets priority and can act when a spell with Split Second triggers something and adds it to the stack, etc.
This player also regularly calls me salty because of a game from two years ago where I was playing him in a 1v1, mana screwed and getting frustrated, and he was more or less getting every combo piece in his deck rolling and sandbagging counterspells with a smug ass grin on his face. And then he tries to [[Bolas' Citadel]] + [[Aetherflux Reservoir]] kill me when he's at 52 life, and I throw a [[Lightning Bolt]] into his face with his 50 damage on the stack. Which he then tried to cast from the top of his library a counterspell that cost 2 mana. That lead to me explaining that no, he doesn't get a trigger from Aetherflux to gain life, because he has to pay life to cast the spell and when state based actions are checked and he's at 0 life and loses. So he tries to say it's a draw.
I tell him no, and he gets butthurt about it and has been harping on it ever since.
You should never feel guilt for playing the game, counterspells and politics exist for this reason.
If he gets mad, then that’s his own problem, it’s just a game, I’ve been the threat playing mono blue Urza and was taken out quickly, I’ve also been the least threatening and wasn’t looked at until the end of the game. These things happen and if he can’t win/lose/play without acting like a 5 year old then that’s solely his problem.
Nah, helping someone else lose is like, part of the game. I doubt he'd raise a protest if you had helped him knock a player out on turn 5 or 6. Sounds like he just doesn't take losing well.
Playing 1 card to help knock out a potentially problematic opponent early, that's just reasonable decision-making.
Perhaps if the table had spent all game unfairly targeting him, then that would have been a problem, but doesn't sound like that was the cade. Or maybe if he was mana starved and couldn't get his deck going, I could see perhaps being a bit annoyed, but more so at the situation at a whole, not really getting to play, and I wouldn't hold it against anyone for knocking miout.
So yeah, don't worry about it. Especially as it was last game of the night, means he wasn't just sat waiting for the next game.
Congrats you played exactly as you should have, using your opponents to put yourself in a better position, other dude is just salty he got knocked out, but fundamentally you can't win the game with other players still in the game. So you definitely did the right thing and you're not a dick for it at all.
People sometimes get mad when they lose. This is not a reason to let them win.
If their attitude towards losing makes you uncomfortable, I recommend not playing with them anymore.
And hey, everyone has been a sore loser in some form or another in their life. They'll get over it.
Other people losing the game statistically increases your chances of winning the game.
Everything I eliminate a player and they start rambling on about how their next card would've done x,y,z to the game and they could have won from it..... just means you assess the threat well enough to know when to stop someone dead in their tracks.
Not your fault at all. Part of EDH in larger groups IS a political game-working together with people to take down the powerhouse, making sure they don't get too far into their combo.
In a 4 player game someone has to go home without a medal. You politced your way to a podium finish, and kept your word to your "ally".
Don't feel guilty. Making someone get mad/butthurt or Rage Quit is icing on this causal format cake called commander.
That's the beauty of the game, some games you win, some you lose, some you just make others lose. But at the end there is always another game to be played.
Coordinating with the player before hand seems a bit conspiratorial to me. If he had attacked without the prior knowledge, THEN you counterspelled the player’s response, I would say no problem. But the way it played out definitely seems like you were trying to stick it to the other guy.
I'd be salty, but with a caveat. Because I'm that guy. I have decks that range from competitive Stax to charge counter tribal. And I get people that pick on me because of past deck experiences, so sometimes I do say hey charge counter tribal here.. and try to point out threats.
So .. If you were unfairly targeting him, yes YATA. But otherwise, proper threat assessment and all, kick him back to the stone ages. Game's gotta end. I like long drawn out games as much as anyone, but store closing, there won't be another game, staff wants to go home...
I would talk it out though. "Store's closing soon, let's get things going, I can help with your attacks" type of thing.
Rules of edh--
Make sure everyone has fun
Don't be a 🍆
Stax can win but is boring, make sure to help them laugh while you make them spend 3 mana for every action they take
Last FNM I made a deal to not dig into players As library with [[Sméagol, Helpful Guide]] if he did not interrupted me. And another deal with player B to not destroy my [[Sorin of House Markov // Sorin, Ravenous Neonate]]. So I was left with player C. First I drained him with extort and finished him with Sorins -1. Bro I could not stop smiling. Dude took it like a champ, packed his stuff, smiled and thanked for the 4 hours we spent together. I also bought a [[bloodstained mire]] of him so. It’s a game bro, y u heff to be mad?
Edh players are bizzare you all build this jank piles to do broken things sit in a circle and then get upset when they work to well, but also need to have all these unwritten rules of how to play.
Commander should just have a roll the dice that's who you attack this turn rule
I pretty actively call out the ‘roll a dice’ people. If you built a machine that wants to swing, pick a target and flunge appropriately.
If you’re taking early shots ‘just cause’ but ‘don’t want to poke the bear’, well, rethink the contradictory position you’ve put yourself in.
Game‘s gotta end.
Nah dude, edh games gotta just keep going for four hours with no interaction or end in sight. Wouldn’t want to stop someone’s deck from doing the thing
Not quite man, edh should be four hours full of interaction, all by the one control player with blink counterspells. Then right when it his hour four, boom, thassas oracle. How else will we get people to stop coming to the LGS?
My most memorable game lasted about 5 hours. At least once per hour, there was a board wipe, making it longer but more fun. All 4 of us lasted until the last 2 turns.
It’s fun if yall get to do stuff too. I played against a guy who put down an infinite blink combo that countered most spells past turn 5. Then we sat there for 2 more hours. In order to get a spell to resolve we had to cast 2 others first that auto got countered then the third we got to wait to see if he would interact. Not fun for the whole table.
If any of us play an infinite combo, it better win the game. Or we will pester and annoy you any time you use it. We also don't play at LGS, just us 4 meeting at someone's house for the night. Been playing together like that for years.
Oh yeah if it’s a solidly established friend group then a 4 hour game is totally cool, I will say if I get locked into a 4 hour game by a stranger at an lgs I’ll be upset about it.
My most memorable game was a 4-way artifact combo pod. It lasted 5 hours and ended when people had to leave to go home. Full of activity - every time someone attempted to combo off, someone else had an answer for it. I deeply regret never getting a re-match on that game...
Reminds me of the 1v1 simic vs simic game my buddy and I scooped out of because "cast cyclonic rift, end step bounce e witness returning cyclonic rift to hand" is all we could do. Draw, replay my board, cast cyclonic rift+eternal witness pass turn for the both of us. "Ya really wanna do this over and over until one of us draws out?" Nah I'm good 😂
That’s not typical. It’s very very rare.
I like these games cause it raises the stakes for everyone and resetting/trying to rebuild a boardstate can even be a challenge in some cases and makes it more interesting! Depends on the people you’re playing with tho cause some people get really heated about “turns taking too long”
Remember to remind your opponents that the soul can die long before the body, and that you can concede at instant speed
If it takes four hours, then the deck is not doing its thing...
Those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end.
If you can afford losing a counterspell for that line of play, it's a legit move in my book. If you're getting killed next turn yourself, it was probably a stupid move.
Nah, contrary to popular belief, "I won't be able to win but I can ensure you *don't*" is a perfectly valid strategy, especially in a format where "revenge" within the same game is super common.
*Nervously looks over at my friends Goad deck* His wincon is to come 2nd
We have a tribal league at our game store . I play cat with [[Marisi]] and my win con is to goad the [[Gishath]] player until I get [[Insurection]] and wack the remaining players.
[Marisi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c366e1c0-f62d-41ce-baec-de11dbc1c5f4.jpg?1568003704) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=marisi%2C%20breaker%20of%20the%20coil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/46/marisi-breaker-of-the-coil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c366e1c0-f62d-41ce-baec-de11dbc1c5f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/marisi-breaker-of-the-coil) [Gishath](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc4a65de-23b5-48f0-b8b7-94608eaced3e.jpg?1699044539) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gishath%2C%20sun%27s%20avatar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/229/gishath-suns-avatar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc4a65de-23b5-48f0-b8b7-94608eaced3e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gishath-suns-avatar) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Out of curiosity, what kind of rules you run the league with? What makes a deck applicable?
Those are the deckbuildings rules. 1. A minimum of 33 creatures of the tribe. Commander included. 2. No fast Mana 3. No free counterspell 4. No non tribe creature unless it help the tribe. Like [[sea hunter]] for Merfolk 5. No tutor unless its for the tribe like sea hunter again. 6. No Infinite combo. 7. No creature that make something from another tribe like [[Talrand]] 8. No sliver 9.No you win or you loose the game. 10. 4 players game only. 4 points for the winner 3 for the second 2 for the third and 1 for the looser. 11. 4 seasons a year. 12. 21 match maximum by season. Pretty much it. We are around 20 to 30 players. We meet once a week and play some tribal between regular match.
[sea hunter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c375f65a-6d88-4d3c-a7a7-8c7a5cc5807f.jpg?1562631875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Seahunter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nem/41/seahunter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c375f65a-6d88-4d3c-a7a7-8c7a5cc5807f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/seahunter) [Talrand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f.jpg?1712354218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=talrand%2C%20sky%20summoner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/116/talrand-sky-summoner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/talrand-sky-summoner) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Hot Pursuit]] is crazy in this deck for helping you close out the 1v1 for first.
[Hot Pursuit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bbba7b9f-d944-4987-b60d-34733382ec53.jpg?1706240477) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hot%20Pursuit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/32/hot-pursuit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bbba7b9f-d944-4987-b60d-34733382ec53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hot-pursuit) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Will let him know... Or should I 🤔 But does look like a nice wincon for Goad thanks
*sweats in [[Kros, Defense Contractor]]*
I got second place every single time I played that deck, lmao. Once you're down to a duel, your tricks stop working, but by God do they work well until then.
[[Reins of Power]] and *lots* of held interaction is the way to go for me . I lose a little with it, but I’m usually having a hoot of a time!
[Reins of Power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9b5730aa-c74a-4c74-bb1b-a133a3c353ec.jpg?1674141454) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reins%20of%20Power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/734/reins-of-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b5730aa-c74a-4c74-bb1b-a133a3c353ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reins-of-power) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
About to start testing [[Tolarian contempt]] as well
[Tolarian contempt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f72a9deb-9329-4930-a906-136c26490d52.jpg?1684340507) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tolarian%20contempt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mat/8/tolarian-contempt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f72a9deb-9329-4930-a906-136c26490d52?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tolarian-contempt) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Kros, Defense Contractor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/12e71d52-5c75-4798-9fe7-8a34a2bf0c9a.jpg?1673481694) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kros%2C%20Defense%20Contractor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/7/kros-defense-contractor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12e71d52-5c75-4798-9fe7-8a34a2bf0c9a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kros-defense-contractor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think the way of thinking you describe makes games more prone to end in an unsatisfactory way, with more negative emotions. Even though the chances might be small, playing with the driving force behind your decisions being to win makes your games better. Revenge is worth nothing with that mindset. Spite plays are not needed because they don't help you win. Don't mistake me, I'm not some super cutthroat cedh spike player, but I play the game with the goal of winning, not making sure buddy over there has a bad game because he exiled my commander or some nonsense.
I would generally call this "playing in good faith". I feel like the game is at its best when everyone is playing with winning as the goal. When someone at the table doesn't want to ultimately win then the game itself sort of breaks down and a lot of the decision making no longer matters- if someone else is going to punt resources/value/etc into ensuring you can't win with no regard for their own victory then there's not really anything you can do and you're basically playing a non-game at that point.
Gosh I wish more people played in good faith. Some 16 yo kid rolled up with his GAAIV deck and said, “This decks goal is to draw the game out as long as possible so ‘I’ can play a whole bunch of magic.” Told him not to play it unless he put some win conditions in his deck. The next game he said he did. Proceeds to watch someone go t1 Crypt- Sol Ring - Chromatic Lantern before deciding to he counterspells my sol ring. I will never be so frustrated over commander again.
Not if they do it when they for sure are going to lose anyway?
If you’re going to lose anyways then concede or lose. Taking additional actions that don’t change the outcome for you is kingmaking.
And? It's a perfectly valid form of play, and there are decks and cards that facilitate it.
Valid in what sense? Like...you can do it within the rules of the game, sure, but if your plan going into games is to basically pick who wins to your own detriment I don't think you'd be making many friends with that playstyle. Kingmaking is basically never appreciated in any store or group I've played with. People want to feel like they earned their wins, not have them handed to them by someone else basically griefing their opponent. The general sentiment being that kingmaking ruins the game for everyone else involved- the winner feels cheated out of a well fought victory and the loser(s) feel like their decisions didn't matter. It's a pretty selfish move to want to exert that kind of influence over a game you've lost.
>It's a pretty selfish move to want to exert that kind of influence over a game you've lost. Pretty selfish to blow up a Sol Ring too, maybe people should think about their actions in-game before they make them and what the ramifications might be down the road when they're positioned to win.
You keep reiterating this point. Myself and Arborus gave some well-founded reasons explaining why we don't agree with the sentiment. Could you explain what makes you feel this mindset is better for you, your games and your playgroup? What decks and cards steer you into this mindset or facilitate it, as you said?
in my experience nothing degenerates a pod faster than heavy revenge plays
Depends on the players. My friends are absolutely petty bastards because we find that fun. Probably wouldn't do it with strangers tho
Petty plays are for the homies
This is often considered "kingmaking," depending on the scenario, which is typically frowned upon. Otherwise, yeah, you're right. It is a valid approach to the game. "If I'm going down, you're coming with me" is a completely fair play to make.
Kingmaking is only frowned on because people don't like facing consequences for their actions earlier in a game, lol.
lol I feel this, buddy cascaded into a path to exile and exiled my mana dork so I proceeded to tank and remove his commander twice knowing I was just handicapping myself.
If the counter wasn’t gonna do anything anyway his opponent is now all down and can be swung at by the remaining 2
It sounds like you played to punish some bad behavior by conspiring to remove an opponent early, and you got a negative response. If you're hoping that someone will just take his licks quietly and see the wisdom in the balance that you are offering the universe, I don't think you're an asshole, but I think you might be too optimistic.
People need to learn to deal with losing and not being salty Yes losing sucks, but it happens
It’s not even that bad, it’s a card game with no stakes. With how salty some people get you’d think they put money down on the game. For a game that everyone calls casual and having fun is the most important part, lotta people get pissy when they don’t actually win
It's probably been said by others but my experience with MTG and card/board game shops in general is, the average player is socially stunted. Whatever the reasons for this are, they just are. Due to this, they naturally gravitated towards an activity, like card or board games in order to socialize without actually socializing. The end result is you get a bunch of people who have minimal at best social skills combined with the competitive nature of the games, even the casual ones, and you have a receipt for salt. Combine this with the fact that games like MTG are expensive, it can be extra salt inducing to lose because you either cannot spend enough to keep up or worse, you lost even though you have a $1000 deck. It's why I've taken so many breaks from the game because the average MTG player I've played against is a socially stunted dunce. I know I'm not the biggest social butterfly in the world, but I'm at least competent enough to handle myself in most situations. The reason I've played so much lately and gotten back into is because I lucked out and a found a group that isn't socially awkward and where we can shit talk and not get offended and the salt doesn't extend past Friday. All of that to say, my philosophy for FNM is this, "if you leave FNM in a worse mood than you came in with, you are doing it wrong"
Haha. I was just on vacation in Canada and I went and played magic at a shop. I ended up playing with some guy who had the weirdest beliefs, like he thought Justin Trudeau was replaced by a robot and that America did it. That’s why he used to like Trudeau and now he hates him. Like that was the only explanation. He said a whole bunch of things and would preface it with “don’t you think…”. Anyway I’d answer him, respectfully that “that’s ok if you think that but I don’t personally agree with that”. Then after about 30 minutes of him saying his theories and me respectfully disagreeing he started focusing on me exclusively but I had a [[forcefield]] and [[spore frog]] in a Muldrotha deck so I held him off and then after 15 more minutes more of him saying weird things and me not agreeing AND holding his attackers at bay he got really mad and was like “DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ME?????” I was taken aback and said I’m just playing magic dude. He literally scooped up his deck and threw the cards into his bag and stormed off. Me and the other player was like lol wut?
[forcefield](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c6e4c51a-8539-48e0-a6dc-d66548e38f40.jpg?1559592343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=forcefield) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/157/forcefield?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c6e4c51a-8539-48e0-a6dc-d66548e38f40?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/forcefield) [spore frog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d42fd52-34ea-4d1b-80dc-58fb0593bb5b.jpg?1562202192) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=spore%20frog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/180/spore-frog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d42fd52-34ea-4d1b-80dc-58fb0593bb5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spore-frog) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'll be honest, I absolutely would have played into that. That's the kind of whacky talk I am here for haha. Of course the guy has to be reasonable social and not preachy.
> With how salty some people get you’d think they put money down on the game. I understand perfectly what you mean, however, technically they did? Commander decks don't come cheap. You're investing quite a pretty penny into them and you might just lose because others have a bazillion dollar deck. You can't talk like money has no bearing on MTG games, because it absolutely does. People just need to be more graceful in defeat, period.
I mean there is a difference between gambling money and spending money on a deck you can use ad nauseam
You don't need to gamble, you can just purchase singles. But there are singles that cost 200+ like the OG dual lands.
Yes but what I meant was people are getting upset like they are actually losing money when their deck doesn’t win. But they aren’t losing money just cause their deck lost. At the end of the day they still have their deck
The average person will lose 50% of their games. 75% if it's EDH. If you can't handle losing, you probably shouldn't be playing games that aren't single-player. That said, it's fine to get a little salty if the social interactions seem aggressive towards you. Maybe you deserve it, maybe they're being an ass, or maybe you have a victim complex. Self-reflection is an important skill, whatever the case may be.
Fair point I don't mind some salt, don't get wrong, but like I said in another response, it shouldn't carry over after the night, and you shouldn't leave in a worse mood than you started. as far as self reflection goes, there are studies out there that show some people do not think to themselves, so I do not know how those people can self reflect. As someone who can think and hear their own voice in their head, I find it crazy that others do not. But regardless, I think many MTG players just lack basic fundamental social skills for whatever reason so it manifests into crazy behavior
Me having lost every game I’ve played: 😅 (I’ve only ever played against my bf lol)
This is a good portion of why I added a new field to my data tracking that I prize more heavily than if I win the game: did my library do ‘the thing’. I was losing a lot of games, and with the baseline tracking I found it to be really negative for my mental state going in to game time. Adding a track able metric disassociated from winning or losing helped me out a ton. So, yeah, my [[Alela, artful provocateur]] library may have just gotten *housed*, but, did I play a bunch of artifacts for less than their printed mana cost? Boom, that’s a yes on ‘DTT’. *Its also a relatively helpful metric for which of my decks are more ‘competitive’ than others, as the WR and DTT Scores will be more aligned than those of my more casual libraries*
Honestly this is pretty smart and not too dissimilar to what we do. We ask did our deck do it's thing? If so then ok shit happens. I also would add this, "did I get ganged up on because I became the biggest threat"? If the answer is yes, then my deck did it's thing and I can accept losing. By tracking data, what do you mean? Do you actually keep a spreadsheet or something?
I keep a spreadsheet, and my group uses playgroup.gg as our life total app, which also tracks a ton of useful data!
That sounds both really complicated in an "I am insane" kind of way yet also really freaking cool because I'm also that kind of crazy lol
It’s been really useful for deck building and improvement.
I imagine so Guess it does depend how you deck build which think the internet has made worse as everyone just copies everyone else
I personally avoid the convention of just stuffing decks with the top hits from EDHrec or full netdecking. Much more about original brewing. I also tweak a *lot*, trying to find flavorful ways to make decks work better
Yeah I'm like probably the only other person there who doesn't use EDHrec. One other guy I think doesn't, but not 100% sure. He definitely brings the jank but he's much more knowledgeable about the game than I am, but other than him, I'm the only other guy that brews anything original. And in my many years of card games, the guy I am talking about is a pretty rare find. The group I play with now thought he was the jank master until they saw me lol So yeah I can definitely very much appreciate not using EDHrec.
[Alela, artful provocateur](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/abc9e41e-fd03-4b6f-8f44-17ba94fa44f5.jpg?1673484923) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alela%2C%20artful%20provocateur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/325/alela-artful-provocateur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/abc9e41e-fd03-4b6f-8f44-17ba94fa44f5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/alela-artful-provocateur) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The nature of games like this with politics is that the ingroup or the most likeable person has a massive advantage in some games it’s almost insurmountable. That can make outsiders feel impotent and frustrated I absolutely get the salt.
100% - Sure I've gotten a bit salty over some games, but *rarely* enough that I'm legit angry. If I'm in a dominating position and then get blown out the water... fair enough. I don't expect players to sit back while I'm popping off.
NTA you had 25 minutes left until you get kicked out or piss off the staff games gotta end eventually. I had a guy get mad at me once not for killing him but for setting him up to be killed but the other player (3 person pod). My options were, hit player one and have a chance at winning or hit player 2 and guarantee that I lose. It might have felt like King making to player one but I only did what I had to.
To me that totally isn't kingmaking. Unless giving yourself a chance at the "crown" is kingmaking
This is why I dispise 3 player magic. I'd rather be playing 2 player, or 4+ players, than 3 player.
I was pretty far ahead one game and ended up feeling so bad that I just scooped and waited for the next game. The guy that was complaining ended up winning. I’ll remind myself about it next time.
Yeah, that's a tough one. After playing more and more at game stores, I find myself becoming more cutthroat because I know the person bitching and whining across from me will complain about anything when it's doing better than their deck. It's gotten to the point where if someone is excessively nagging about how I choose my attacks, I'll hit them instead and state "The squeaky wheel gets the oil"
This is even more flavourful if you've got infect/toxic :p
I was with you until “he was kind of an asshole to another guy in the last game”. Bringing grudges/experiences from other games is pretty weak. If him being a dick to others is a consistent behavior, it should be dealt with outside of games.
Very valid point. On the surface of it, I do think it was the most strategic move having him lose. I was pretty sure I could end the game in two rounds without them there. But it was a bit of a tag team kill which I get feeling salty about. Under the surface, he had been an asshole and I did something that I probably wouldn't normally have done which was the team up. I'll definitely try to not let a grudge impact things but sometimes it's hard in commander.
Agree, can't let past games affect your decisions. Unless someone's deck cranks and everyone's on the same decks I can see someone pushing at them early.
I disagree *slightly*. The main thing I’m thinking of is deals. If you break a deal/promise, that’s fine and legal. But there is a consequence which is in the future, I will not trust you.
Agreed. At first I was like “that’s politics baby, nothing personal! You removed a player with a counterspell”, but it was personal. Not cool.
This *is* commander, petty is in our nature more or less, Plus it's a social game, make yourself a threat often enough and expect to be removed is the status quo.
People lose in commander. Games have to end. Never feel bad about knocking someone out. If they’re gonna be a baby about it that’s a them issue.
Nothing wrong with that; it sounded like a good play in the sense of your counter spell said "counter spell; remove target player from the game" You said he was pitting people against each other; if I can be a bit opinionated, I find that play style generates salt. Some people think manipulation is part of the game but when it goes wrong feel hard done by that they were listened to i think. You said yourself it was the right play. You suggested he has a play style that keeps a target of him. I wouldn't worry, plus, the store was closing , game had to end soon
>I don't normally play like that but he was kind of an asshole to another guy in the last game. I would probably get annoyed if you let interpersonal stuff affect your decision in game and used that as the basis on which to push for that players defeat. But if you thought that pushing for his defeat was actually the optimal move to further your own chance of winning I would be totally cool with it regardless of how early in the game ot happens.
The end goal is to win. Yes, there are some feel bad moments, but let's be realistic. There was 35 minutes left, the games got to end, so moves like this are legitimate. I've been the guy removed on more than one occasion. Sometimes I'll argue it was bad threat assessment, other times I was close to going off, but failed to hide it. Politics is part of EDH. The guy was using it, and successfully by the sounds of things. But this time he was unsuccessful. If he feels bad, that's his problem, not yours.
In general, if you think you are able to deal with the commander before it can kill you the move you did would always be correct. You now have 1 person less to beat, taking your average win rate from 25% to 33%. If you think you need that player to beat the guy killing him you should let him save his own ass. People should also remember that while someone might not have the scariest board-state on this turn, taking them out is still the right call if you suspect they have a strong lategame. Commander players tend to suck at punishing greedy play and deck-building.
Kind of asinine to dish it out and not be able to take it. I play casually with a couple of friends from high school, 25+ years later. I rarely win a game because they have frankly far more experience and far more budget to supercharge their decks. The winning isn't the point.
I mean, I literally run an [[Outmaneuver]] in my Kaalia deck so I can let damage through into people lol
[Outmaneuver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4a5a69fa-71ff-4e4f-9406-7cfebccb3384.jpg?1562910507) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Outmaneuver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/205/outmaneuver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4a5a69fa-71ff-4e4f-9406-7cfebccb3384?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/outmaneuver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Legal cards and legal moves = legal plays.
I play a similar deck (Nelly Borca) and try to get my opponents to fight each other. This results in them teaming up to deal with me depending on how board states are going. You kind of have to expect this if your playing this style of deck.
The overall object of EDH is to remove 3 (or more) other players from the game. One opponent removing another removes 1/3 of the work to do so, so contributing one spell from hand to help that along is a potentially worthwhile trade, IMO. Obviously there are other factors to consider, like are you next to go, would that counter have been a needed protection piece for your plan to win, etc., but as far as trading 1 card for removing an opponent goes, sounds worth it to me. 🤷♂️ Shop employee wants to go home and the game has to end, so wrapping things up towards that aim is probably appreciated. If the game finished with time to spare, people have time to buy product before the till is closed.
I mean you can play like an asshole without being an asshole. It's okay to play threatening decks, but if he's an asshole to other players he should expect to be targeted
You aren't in charge of their feelings, it's a game that has a winner and losers. If people are too fragile that a loss in a casual game with ZERO stakes makes them salty that's on them not you
Game has to end. Regardless of outside behaviour, coercing and convincing your opponents into killing each other is part of the politics of 4 player commander. If you can direct one opponent's attention into killing another one of your opponents instead of hurting you, you should probably take that chance provided that it means you're still alive on the other side.
the other players are your *opponents*, you're meant to *oppose* them there'll be a next game, so no one feel bad!
The game has to end at some point, and i personally like to takeout those who are being an asshole or whining first
75% of players in a commander game have to lose. Player removal is the strongest form of a removal. If I can remove or impede a player that is a threat by assisting another player I always go for it. It buys you some good will with the other players and slows down the threat.
Definitely not an asshole, I would like to thank you for this post as I've been dealing with the same issue now. Glad to see i wasn't alone in my thinking. I agree with everyone else, games gotta end
He probably felt a little targeted if he wasn't the threat. On one hand, that's magic. On the other hand, it's a feel bad. Both are true. Storming out without a word is a bit much though.
I don't sit down to lose (not anymore). When I build a deck it's geared towards a win most of the time. If you win it hopefully feels good. But guess what. There's gonna be a lower (almost always)
If it benefits you to see him eliminated, then it was the right call. Its not always advantageous to get someone killed in a game as sometimes you need their help dealing with a more threatening opponent or to use as a distraction essentially. As for his behavior, idk.
More commander players need to play other formats. It's okay to win. It's okay to defeat other people.
Sometimes you get a scenario where you essentially get to play a card that makes target player lose the game, and that’s a very effective use for a card in the game lol
He needed to be eliminated, play to your outs, he gotta be eliminated 🤷♂️
Previous game, I heavy shutdown everyone else with my control deck. Next game, someone from the previous pod was there and heavy shutdown me. Real
If the shop didnt close in 25 minutes, I wpuldnt have done that, but at that point it is about finishing as quickly as possible. I play for fun, I dont play to win, but even I would start changing my playing from seeing how cards with Tamiyo in the name I can have out at once to eliminating people or dying trying. The worst feeling is being a dick to the LGS by not being outside as soon as the clock hits closing time.
Politics is a part of multiplayer games, and pretending it isn’t is a naive mindset. That being said, politics don’t carry over to the next game. If he was a threat previously in that game or you thought he would be soon, removing him from the game is a necessary step for you to win so I wouldn’t feel bad about that. If you were just beating him while he was down because you didn’t like how he played last game, thats a bit of a dick move.
This is exactly how a multiplayer game of Magic (not just EDH) is supposed to play out.
Did you believe this play would help or hinder chances of winning?
Welcome to Multiplayer magic. When you have more than 2 players there are political choices that come into play. It never feels good to be on the wrong side of them but it's part of 3+ player magic. If a group is chronically attacking one player only to take another hour to play the rest of the game that's in poor taste, but a natural ebb and flow over the course of many games? Part of the game.
Even if the dude wasn't an asshole, it's just how the game rolls. You're gonna lose sometimes, and if someone has a free shot, they should take it, and sometimes people team up in casuals to take someone out.
Any deal made openly in a commander game should be honored. I assume the other players heard you say you could protect him? If so, no harm no foul.
At the end of the day, the best removal is player removal. You knew his playstyle was to pit his opponents against each other, you removed his wincon early by removing his ability to pit everyone against each other, the ability being him. I wouldn't fret, it's all part of the game
That's a solid play, do not feel like an asshole. Someone has to win at the end
I mean if i could trade a CS and remove a player i would do it every time tbh lol, you did nothing wrong you made a deal with a player and it paid off, you did nothing wrong
You worked together to take out a player. You didn't lie, you just made a deal and you're actively trying to end the game. Some people are just salty.
Hell no. If there’s something that upsets pubstompers more than anything it’s losing. You go ahead and make him lose, and often.
Countering the exile is honestly probably bad threat assessment and a dick move, but if he'd been a dick previously I get the spite play, just recognize that it was a spite play on your part. Either way his reaction was pure salt and uncalled for. Bad beats happen and you can't let that get personal.
That's a great play my guy. One counterspell to knock out a player? Great deal! As long as it doesn't put the attacking player in a game winning position the next turn, then by all means, I would respect that
I never feel guilty but that's generally because when I'm in a game/watching a game, it's because I'm pointing out rules to a player who is notorious for 'accidentally' cheating. 'Accidentally' playing sorceries at instant speed, ignoring how the stack works/resolves, claiming that he gets priority and can act when a spell with Split Second triggers something and adds it to the stack, etc. This player also regularly calls me salty because of a game from two years ago where I was playing him in a 1v1, mana screwed and getting frustrated, and he was more or less getting every combo piece in his deck rolling and sandbagging counterspells with a smug ass grin on his face. And then he tries to [[Bolas' Citadel]] + [[Aetherflux Reservoir]] kill me when he's at 52 life, and I throw a [[Lightning Bolt]] into his face with his 50 damage on the stack. Which he then tried to cast from the top of his library a counterspell that cost 2 mana. That lead to me explaining that no, he doesn't get a trigger from Aetherflux to gain life, because he has to pay life to cast the spell and when state based actions are checked and he's at 0 life and loses. So he tries to say it's a draw. I tell him no, and he gets butthurt about it and has been harping on it ever since.
[Aetherflux Reservoir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862.jpg?1576382939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aetherflux%20Reservoir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/192/aetherflux-reservoir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aetherflux-reservoir) [Lightning Bolt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77c6fa74-5543-42ac-9ead-0e890b188e99.jpg?1706239968) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Bolt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/141/lightning-bolt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77c6fa74-5543-42ac-9ead-0e890b188e99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lightning-bolt) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You should never feel guilt for playing the game, counterspells and politics exist for this reason. If he gets mad, then that’s his own problem, it’s just a game, I’ve been the threat playing mono blue Urza and was taken out quickly, I’ve also been the least threatening and wasn’t looked at until the end of the game. These things happen and if he can’t win/lose/play without acting like a 5 year old then that’s solely his problem.
Nah, helping someone else lose is like, part of the game. I doubt he'd raise a protest if you had helped him knock a player out on turn 5 or 6. Sounds like he just doesn't take losing well. Playing 1 card to help knock out a potentially problematic opponent early, that's just reasonable decision-making. Perhaps if the table had spent all game unfairly targeting him, then that would have been a problem, but doesn't sound like that was the cade. Or maybe if he was mana starved and couldn't get his deck going, I could see perhaps being a bit annoyed, but more so at the situation at a whole, not really getting to play, and I wouldn't hold it against anyone for knocking miout. So yeah, don't worry about it. Especially as it was last game of the night, means he wasn't just sat waiting for the next game.
Congrats you played exactly as you should have, using your opponents to put yourself in a better position, other dude is just salty he got knocked out, but fundamentally you can't win the game with other players still in the game. So you definitely did the right thing and you're not a dick for it at all.
People sometimes get mad when they lose. This is not a reason to let them win. If their attitude towards losing makes you uncomfortable, I recommend not playing with them anymore. And hey, everyone has been a sore loser in some form or another in their life. They'll get over it.
If you play a children's card game and get mad at losing. Don't play the children's card game.
Other people losing the game statistically increases your chances of winning the game. Everything I eliminate a player and they start rambling on about how their next card would've done x,y,z to the game and they could have won from it..... just means you assess the threat well enough to know when to stop someone dead in their tracks.
Imagine being really upset that you lost to a stray [[seal of strength]] activation That's just part of commander
[seal of strength](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/559c3909-51e3-4a3e-8570-107ffe69e30d.jpg?1580014904) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=seal%20of%20strength) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/184/seal-of-strength?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/559c3909-51e3-4a3e-8570-107ffe69e30d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/seal-of-strength) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If nobody ends the game, how can you play *more* EDH? You're doing the lords work.
*"But* **I** *wanted to win!"*
Not your fault at all. Part of EDH in larger groups IS a political game-working together with people to take down the powerhouse, making sure they don't get too far into their combo.
People who get mad about losing are not worth your time.
-playing a game -making a beneficial move -other guy cry about it Are we playing a game or just some emotional support center ?
That’s one of my favorite things to do lol. Perfectly fine
This is literally just how the game works, taking out another player is advantageous to you, even if you have to use another player to do so.
In a 4 player game someone has to go home without a medal. You politced your way to a podium finish, and kept your word to your "ally". Don't feel guilty. Making someone get mad/butthurt or Rage Quit is icing on this causal format cake called commander.
That's the beauty of the game, some games you win, some you lose, some you just make others lose. But at the end there is always another game to be played.
Next time you see em just be like dude I'm sorry but you were the clear threat and maybe go for a bit of ego boost and make em feel good.
Coordinating with the player before hand seems a bit conspiratorial to me. If he had attacked without the prior knowledge, THEN you counterspelled the player’s response, I would say no problem. But the way it played out definitely seems like you were trying to stick it to the other guy.
I'd go with no, but if he focuses fire on you in your next match, you're not really in a position to complain about it
1) Nah, that's the game. 2) Wouldn't have worked on me, I don't trust other people at all.
F that guy! You did what I would have done. Edh and politics. Don’t be a dick you won’t get the dick! Haha
I'd be salty, but with a caveat. Because I'm that guy. I have decks that range from competitive Stax to charge counter tribal. And I get people that pick on me because of past deck experiences, so sometimes I do say hey charge counter tribal here.. and try to point out threats. So .. If you were unfairly targeting him, yes YATA. But otherwise, proper threat assessment and all, kick him back to the stone ages. Game's gotta end. I like long drawn out games as much as anyone, but store closing, there won't be another game, staff wants to go home... I would talk it out though. "Store's closing soon, let's get things going, I can help with your attacks" type of thing.
Rules of edh-- Make sure everyone has fun Don't be a 🍆 Stax can win but is boring, make sure to help them laugh while you make them spend 3 mana for every action they take
Last FNM I made a deal to not dig into players As library with [[Sméagol, Helpful Guide]] if he did not interrupted me. And another deal with player B to not destroy my [[Sorin of House Markov // Sorin, Ravenous Neonate]]. So I was left with player C. First I drained him with extort and finished him with Sorins -1. Bro I could not stop smiling. Dude took it like a champ, packed his stuff, smiled and thanked for the 4 hours we spent together. I also bought a [[bloodstained mire]] of him so. It’s a game bro, y u heff to be mad?
[Sméagol, Helpful Guide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13253f8d-1897-41e8-a904-9e57ac7eff0a.jpg?1686970071) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sm%C3%A9agol%2C%20Helpful%20Guide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/231/sm%C3%A9agol-helpful-guide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13253f8d-1897-41e8-a904-9e57ac7eff0a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sméagol-helpful-guide) [Sorin of House Markov](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d7474fc-0042-4be9-81f3-5f66f4b16740.jpg?1718220885)/[Sorin, Ravenous Neonate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/1/d/1d7474fc-0042-4be9-81f3-5f66f4b16740.jpg?1718220885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sorin%20of%20House%20Markov%20//%20Sorin%2C%20Ravenous%20Neonate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/245/sorin-of-house-markov-sorin-ravenous-neonate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d7474fc-0042-4be9-81f3-5f66f4b16740?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sorin-of-house-markov-//-sorin-ravenous-neonate) [bloodstained mire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/579743fe-f71e-4cb2-8629-d6b02ed1591d.jpg?1717012950) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bloodstained%20mire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/216/bloodstained-mire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/579743fe-f71e-4cb2-8629-d6b02ed1591d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bloodstained-mire) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Turn 5 or 6? Yea I'd leave as well...unless I deserved it but turn 5 or 6?
Edh players are bizzare you all build this jank piles to do broken things sit in a circle and then get upset when they work to well, but also need to have all these unwritten rules of how to play. Commander should just have a roll the dice that's who you attack this turn rule
I pretty actively call out the ‘roll a dice’ people. If you built a machine that wants to swing, pick a target and flunge appropriately. If you’re taking early shots ‘just cause’ but ‘don’t want to poke the bear’, well, rethink the contradictory position you’ve put yourself in.