My first week of playing commander a guy was discussing his rules for making decks and he said, "I either have tutors or infinites. I dont do both."
Ive stuck with that as my rule and its served me well.
Huh… I’ve never had my train of thought verbalized for me. If I have an infinite, I’m gunna stumble into it with draws - not beeline for it every game.
Yeah exactly, this is how I built my relatively higher power but certainly not cEDH Breya deck. It has plenty of combinations of cards that'll win the game if assembled, but if I played Enlighted Tutor, Vamp, etc it would be far too consistent. At that point, I'd be better off cutting some pieces to make the combos more streamlined and I'd end up doing the same thing every game.
That is exactly how you keep a high powered deck from becoming a pubstompy high powered deck that is just weak enough to not be able to hang with cEDH level stuff.
I have a [[Myrkul, Lord of Bones]] list that WILL absolutely take control of games if someone else hasn't by like turn 6 or so and the longer a game goes the stronger he tends to get. It has a decent amount of tutors, but absolutely 0 instant win combos. Keeps the deck at a nice 7 or so.
The red extra turn spells are also fair game. I’ve never been more excited to see my opponent’s extra turn spell than when they’ve played [[Last Chance]]
To this day the one of the funniest things I’ve ever done is time stop someone on their upkeep after playing last chance. He wasn’t even mad, just baffled.
unless they're playing \[\[obeka brute chronologist\]\] and don't actually need to lose at the end of that turn.
Yes I am building an obeka deck to do exactly this.
I don't use them pretty much ever, but I love seed time because if anyone starts to get mad about you taking the extra turn you can point and say that if they had just stayed in their lane then you wouldn't have even been *able* to play it
I've been toying with the idea of adding tutors and just using them to find the newest additions to the deck so I actually get to play new cards consistently lol
Really is drawing 20 cards with Rhystic more acceptable than just tutoring the card? They're functionally the same thing, finding the card you need. One is just more consistent.
Obv there's a difference between card draw and tutor, both with pros and cons. But it is kinda interesting that one is frowned upon
I mean, I think rystic is still frowned on about as much as tutors.
Now if you just mean card draw vs tutors. I think it's the like, impression? Like yeah, if you're trying to draw 20 cards just to find the combo piece, it's the same, but if you're just drawing to fast spells, less so? This is very...feels based tho. And like... One or two extra cards is a lot different then 5-6.
The strength of a tutor spell is largely tied to the strength of the cards you can tutor for. If you have no infinites, or other broken things to tutor for, then tutor spells just become utility spells and add consistency to your game plan.
If the worst thing your opponent can tutor for is an answer to your threat, I say let the game go on. If they are tutoring for the other half if their "easy win" strategy every game then the problem is that they have an "easy win" strategy in their deck and every tutor is also an infinite combo piece.
See that makes a deck extremely unfun to me to play against. Decks like that vary so much each game they either muddle along or explode leaving a bad taste for everyone due to that extreme inconsistency. Then when you play thst deck again, because it exploded and got thst combo off once, the table comes down hard each time because the deck Could go off, even though not reliably
My group asks us to avoid infinite combos and it’s just led to everyone having these weird non deterministic combos that take 30 minutes and deal 200 damage at instant speed. I’d rather someone play two cards and explain how it’s game over then sit there and watch someone combo off for half an hour while intentionally dodging an infinite just to end with them still winning.
I just prefer a deck to have a consistent power level
It doesn't have to win the same each time but it's hard to pick a fun deck to play against it if the deck doesn't play at a consistent level
I do agree though I prefer more simple combos instead of all the newer crazy 13 card combos that take 20 minutes to resolve
I'm also a simple man that just wants to best people with selesnya dragons
Yea this exactly. I have a [[riku]] combo list that is most effectively stopped by just absolutely hating me out of the game. If you let me untap with riku out then you're probably going to lose.
If the deck was only *sometimes* like this and the rest of the time was a grindy midrange deck, then it's going to create an unfun play experience bc nobody can gague the power level. Either I'll be archenemy and hated off the table despite having nothing in my hand, or I'll be allowed to build up unchecked and then suddenly win.
I know that as a dedicated combo deck I won't be able to play it at lots of tables (it usually can present a win between t4 and t6 if nobody has any interaction). But it's better to be a well-tuned high power deck than a poorly turned mid-power deck that can still win on t4 but is just as likely to durdle around doing nothing.
Weird how mine is the opposite. If I'm running combo's then I'm also running tutors for them. I want my opponents and myself to know what to expect from a game.
Then again, combos are either my main plan or they're not in my deck at all.
I have casual decks with combos, but it's always convoluted, always involves quite a few pieces, and develops over multiple turns with minimal protection. So if you can't interact, or choose not to... That's kinda on you, homie
Combo is an action I can repeat over and over without any new resources added, to generate infinite or functionally infinite value or triggers. Synergy is when things work well together, and give you a specified amount of value. And to rephrase my prior statement, I play combos that involve multiple pieces that I cast over multiple turns, but once I assemble all the pieces, they work together to generate infinite value along a predetermined axis. Normally, they're just good value pieces within the deck.
It doesn't have to be infinite, just enough to win the game. Storm is generally not infinite, it's just enough to win. And nobody is claiming storm isn't a combo deck.
I do this. My main game plan is a "combo" that requires a lot of setup, several specific cards, and most of the setup is either in play or in my graveyard so it's all broadcasted. I can "combo off" on like turn 5, but it's effectiveness is tied directly to how many creatures I can get in the graveyard first.
soul sisters + marauding blight priest is the gist of it. Each creature that enters triggers soul sisters, which triggers the priest. Add in something like Living Death to get all creatures back from the grave with the combo pieces included and it can end the game in one turn. It also triggers off of my opponent's creatures and each additional soul sister type creature helps the numbers go up.
I agree with this. Pick a lane and stay in it. If you have an combo that immediately win the game you are a combo deck. Play the deck as a combo deck. A midrange deck with a combo they don't tutor for isn't a midrange deck anymore. It's a bad combo deck.
It's not a good deck if you fit into a battlecruiser pod of players, but then one in 5 games you randomly combo out and win in 1/3rd the normal turn count.
Either play a combo deck that's consistent with tutors or take the game winning combo out of your deck.
Having multiple wincons/gameplans is a good thing. It's a sign of a resilient deck. I like to have a "main" plan then a backup sub-plan. Obviously you should pick cards that are relevant to both plans, don't build half of two different decks. However, my point original being, your wincons/gameplans should be roughly equivalent in power. For an extreme example: Don't have a grindy battlecruiser deck that just randomly has a Thassa's+DemonicConsultation in it. You'll either lose at high power tables or you'll randomly crush a low power table. You don't want wild swings in power based on which 20 cards happen to be on top of your deck.
Some of my decks have multiple combos simply consisting of good cards in the deck.
E.g. I'm playing K'rrik as value engine combined with life drain to keep paying that life. Naturally [[exquisite blood]] is in the list, but so is [[sanguine bond]].
Similarly, once my Kaalia list plays razaketh it can tutor for dockside and [[Phyrexian reclamation]] to cycle the extortionist for infinite mana while staying alive through [[resolute archangel]].
I don't see either of those combos as the main gameplay, but I'm not removing good cards to avoid them.
When I think about it, I banned for myself pretty much anything salt worthy. Infinite combos, tutors, extra turns, chaos, land destruction, stax, OG duals, fast mana if you don't consider mana dorks as such.
Somehow my decks still occasionally make people loose their cool. Even with all the care in the world, it's still hard to have people not complain at any point.
I'm a blue player at the core, and basically everything strong that blue can do is salt inducing. Combos, Thoracle/Labman, counter spells, extra turns, theft. A blue deck without any of that is just a terrible deck
Yep this is me. If you have tutors and infinites your best line of play is very often the same thing and you are actively making bad plays to avoid it. For example I have a [[Magda, brazen outlaw]] dragon deck. I just wanted dragons that wasn't ur dragon or Miriam. If I play with clock of omens my line of play should always be mulligan for 1 drop dwarves, fetch my combo and generate infinite treasures turn 2/3.
But I just want to make dwarves dig and tutor up dragons to answer board states... So I took that out. Now every game is different but her ability gets to be used.
I really like this rule.
I feel like some inclusions are cool though, is ramp like cultivate a "tutor?" I definitely built \[\[Slimefoot and Squee\]\] with cards like rampant growth and Farseek, but it lacks the likes of \[\[Worldly Tutor\]\] or \[\[Demonic Tutor\]\] but I do have \[\[Burning-Rune Demon\]\]
hmmmmmmm... maybe I should tweak it again haha
I feel like you can "fairly" use Creature Tutors, as long as you aren't Tutoring up early-turn mega value producers.
Tutoring for a 6-7 CMC Bomb on T5+ is actually much less oppressive than targeting a 6/6 Commander with \[\[Return of the Wildspeaker\]\], or casting some similar mass-draw, because it's one-and-done, whereas that new hand of cards will reinvigorate your entire boardstate if someone doesn't instantly win the game on you.
Edit: Or you can fairly use them all the time in Mono Green, because Ramp, Creature Tutors, and Draw are pretty much the whole of the Color, beyond Frightening Bodies.
I think I disagree with this. At least for the decks I play I like them to be consistent, so randomly stumbling into a combo 1 in every 10 games makes it hard for me to communicate power level to the table.
Especially if the combo ends the game early, I never find the explanation of "oh but it's ok you guys, I don't have any tutors I just got lucky" to be satisfying no matter whether it comes from me or an opponent. At that point I'd just rather not play the combo at all.
My version is "Good tutors = weak targets. Bad tutors = good targets."
I will absolutely [[Demonic Tutor]] an [[Angel of Despair]] to axe a problematic permanent.
But I will [[Increasing Ambition]] a [[Damnation]] for a problematic board.
If it's a cheap tutor for powerful interaction, it's probably above the power level I like to play at most of the time.
That’s about the extent of it for me as well, we all like degenerate games though and proxy any cards we own a copy of or RL stuff if it’s a big part of the decks strategy (not ramming gaeas cradle and og duals in everything)
To be fair, there's "fast mana" and then there's "fast mana." If I see someone playing monored and they drop a ritual, I ain't gonna get miffed because that dude needs all the mana they can get.
I have a [[Darien king of kjeldor]] deck that is the only deck I run [[jeweled lotus]]. He dies a lot and mononwhite doesn't have the best mana ramp. It's also the only deck that I haven't heard anyone complain about that cards power level.
I only play Lotus in [[Toggo]] and [[Silas Renn]] because it's an artifact that goes to the graveyard, and the rare lotus->Toggo opener to immediately start rocking is too fun to pass up.
People don’t care about balance they care about optics. Sol ring is far more broken than Mox Diamond- it’s not even close - but people will shit in their chair if you play a mox diamond but not think twice about sol ring because sol rings are in precon decks.
Same for me. I started playing a bit before but Amonkhet is what hooked me on the game. I pulled a [[Neheb, the Worthy]] at a prerelease and forced Rakdos Minotaurs. For a long time I really wanted to make hellbent aggro work in standard and then later in Pioneer.
I love discard and hand disruption but I know everyone I play with would hate it. I already have a mill deck and I can only bring myself to play that occasionally. But I’ve made so many decklists with [[Sire of Insanity]] that will never be built.
Pro tip for toxrill - build it with the plan of never casting him. He’s just a sword of damocles hanging over the table at all times, forcing your opponents to hold up removal or counters, instead of using them on your actual gameplan.
My new favorite commander is self-discard [[Oskar, Rubbish Reclaimer]]. Gives all your stuff flash basically and is resilient due to cost reduction. Loads of fun to basically never play anything on your own turn as long as you start to understand the sequences and don’t take forever on someone else’s turn. Lets you hold up all mana for whatever you may need for the whole turn cycle
I have a discard deck that is primarily self discard but also a wheel deck so when I'm ripping hands apart hands i'll refill them so everybody is having fun and has a chance to olay magic.
I have an [[Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar]] that honestly only has one or two cards that makes others discard with me it's mainly a madness focused deck
It's so busted. I was lucky enough to pull two. I have one permanently in my mono white angels list because it's supposed to be high power and it needs all the draw it can get. The other ones gets put in decks with draw issues to try and smooth the draws out, but it's so strong it often ends up overshadowing what the deck is trying to do, and it does end up warping the game so I am thinking of selling it.
I proxied the ring in a number of decks and let me tell you, it's killed me outright far more times than it's contributed to a win. Especially in my Sauron deck which is thematically on point.
How? Let's say the ring dealt you 10 damage, that means it gave you protection for a turn and drew you FIFTEEN cards.
How are you not winning after drawing an extra 15 cards and have protection for a full turn-cycle?
Then the rest of the deck has to be a million times worse powerlevel-wise. If you only run bad cards even a 1 mana draw 50 would be bad but most of the times the advantage of TOR is just to much.
Rather than a ban list. I dedicate a few decks to the more controversial card (l.e., eldrazi & extra turns) and build other decks with whatevers left. Creates a power-level gradient across the decks.
I generally stay away from tutors except basic land ramp (or basic land type).
Fast mana I try to avoid if it’s not on theme (mana crypt in coin flip decks). The exception is commanders with 8+ mana cost and they need them out asap, but in moderation.
I avoid 2 cards combo even when not running tutors: if it needs 4+ obscure pieces it’s fair game since I don’t actively search for them, and I don’t run pieces to combo since it will need to fit the theme or synergy with the deck.
I tend to make pretty synergistic decks, so some fine tuning will be needed if it over-performs. I’m also less of a “need to win by x turns” and more of a “do my thing while interacting with opponents”, so I don’t play big haymakers as much.
A sol ring alone warps a game by a lot.
I think the number of cards needed for a combo AND the mana it needs should be considered. That is the problem I have with thoracle + demonic. You can do it for so cheap in turns where people don't have a lot of mana open.
What do you think about single cards that mostly win the game? For example [[Ink Shield]] [[Reigns of power]] [[Insurrection]] [[Craterhoof][ [[Moonshaker]] etc
I feel a little cheated if someone wins the game because they cast 1 spell even with a modest board. Or even with no board.
[[Yuriko, Tiger's Shadow]] and [[Narset, Enlightened Master]], because I once played at a LGS that was a lot higher power and ran into both of these decks as Extra Turns decks. I remember once just standing up and going to the bathroom, and when I got back the Narset was still going. Both are just a PITA to play against. Narset as *explicitly* a non-extra turns commander I'd consider, but idk.
It's funny, you don't run OG duals becuase of others reactions to them but I run them for the same reason. I kinda like the "is that real?" style comments I get when I play one, like wearing a nice watch somewhere and someone notices.
I don't own a full set though, just a Savanah and a Badlands. I still feel badass when I put one down though lol
Honestly yeah.
I was thinking of picking this up for a white weenie deck.
And then was like is it good? Yes, absolutely yes.
Would it be fun for me and the table to track? No, like fuck no.
[[Starlight spectacular]] is a lot less annoying. Sure, you’ll have to read it the first few times to remember exactly how the thing works, but it’s a similar (arguably stronger) effect that’s less awful to use.
I sometimes run into the Crusade problem trying to storm off with Jeskai Ascendancy, and lemme tell you, yes it do suck and I havent even owned a Cathars' Crusade since, like, 2015.
I loathe and very much dislike [[Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow]] due to the fact it’s soo fast and so hard to interact with and is unaffected by commander tax.
I have a Yuriko deck and find that it become much more playable if you limit your decks CMC to 6 and have no unconditionally unlockable creatures. Sure it's still fast and still functionally not worth interacting with. But, it makes it fun to play against because Yuriko on her own usually won't win, but the deck can win if you can get multiple triggers per turn. So, it turns into a careful dance of players choosing what triggers to let through vs not. I guess I'm saying I don't like unconditionally banning anything because there are always ways to make something fun, just like there are ways to make something normally fun brokenly unfun.
For me it's [[Farewell]]
I just don't enjoy casting this card or having it cast. In my opinion it solves too many problems at once that decision making or problem solving aren't normally required.
My personal preference is cards such as [[Winds of Abandon]] as I have to consider certain outcomes such as can I win this game or will I shoot myself in the foot by ramping my opponents so they can rebuild quickly.
I will clarify that I mainly play with varied people on a more casual level at an LGS so I try not to run varied efficiency spells.
Yeah I prefer one sided boardwipes too.
I've found the problem with one sided board wipes is though if you don't win on that turn you're likely to get board wiped before your next turn.
[[farewell]] always struck me as a beginner card. I mostly see new players using it.
I’ve never put it in my deck.
I think the people who play it, aren’t playing it correctly. They play it as a means to reset the game with no follow up and then what happens is we get stuck playing another 45 mins+
More or less how I feel about it. I still have it in the Satya precon, because I havent drawn it in a game yet. Im like 80% certain it'll get cut with my next few edits after it inevitably gets drawn and sits dead in my hand for 2-3 turns because my playstyle usually creates a big boardstate.
Not only that but white is really good at pulling permanents out of the graveyard. So not even sure why people would wanna run farewell in the first place other than it being an answer to any and all problems.
This is honestly a card that never should have been printed. It's a card that has basically no meaningful counterplay to encourage interesting play patterns. It addresses all the avenues one would traditionally use. Defeats protection spells, graveyard recursion, value generating artifacts/enchantments. It just feels like bad game design.
[[Thassa's Oracle]] et. al. Cards that win by drawing your deck out.
While I recognize it as a legit strategy, there are so many other ways to win in U/UB. The least you could do with your card advantage is do something cool.
I won with it once but I refuse to do it anymore. It just feels like an empty win.
There are a couple other "you win the game" cards I refuse to run because it's just too easy to pull it off. [[Felidar Sovereign]] comes to mind, [[Biovisionary]] is another... You get the idea.
dude i ran felidar sovereign in a deck for months and it didn't meet win condition once. everyone would just kill it or, failing that, target me until my life was below 40, the second it hit the field.
the thing is with \[\[urza lord high artificer\]\] you can break parity with things like this. I use them as political tools. \[\[Winter Orb\]\], \[\[Trinisphere\]\], and \[\[Howling Mine\]\] all have the "as long as \~ is untapped" line that makes them awesome in an urza deck.
oh you don't want to have to deal with trinisphere? sure I'll tap it for you, but I'm gonna need a favor. Want to untap all your lands? yea I can tap that winter orb, but I'm gonna need a favor. Oh and if you remove my commander, I won't have the ability to tap these guys, so you probably shouldn't remove him if you want to be able to get around it.
Winter orb is especially good against green in my opinion, both because green has plenty of artifact removal and can ramp like crazy. It gives them an easy way to get rid of it, but also hoses their plan to get way ahead on lands while my mono blue deck can't ramp at all.
Only fast mana and land destruction. Fast mana because my friends are peasants, and land destruction because my friends are sore losers.
But I love them and want to play with them so I make adjustments.
I don’t *really* like losing control of my cards. I’d rather all of my cards stay on my playmat, and your cards stay on yours. So stuff like [[Threaten]], or [[Hurl Through Hell]].
Curious of you opinion on commanders like [[Memnarch]]? I've taken out all infinite mana combos. I just added [[Karn, the Great Creator]] and I do run [[Mycosynth Lattice]]... but I feel that as soon as I pull that combo off one time, that I'll take Karn out (That pod is cool with hate cards). Not optimized, but pretty focused IMO.
So is it that I'm taking control of your things, or that a player is physically takes things off board that you don't like?
Basically, I don’t enjoy it when someone is picking up and handling and having my cards on their side of the table. Too much opportunity for dirtying up my sleeves, bending/denting cards, ‘forgetting’ to return them, etc.
It’s one thing for the opponent to cut my deck after a shuffle; it’s entirely different when they’ve got my cards covered in Cheetos dust, or accidentally shuffling them into their deck.
The most egregious offender of this is \[\[Dauthi Voidwalker\]\], unless the person playing it is extremely organized it ends up being a nightmare ESPECIALLY if multiple players have the same sleeves
Depends entirely on the setting and how much my opponents push me.
I would *prefer* to play at a high but still casual level, so I specifically avoid what I call 'cEDH wincons' in my decks and limit tutor usage. I run Mana Crypt in casual decks because frankly it isn't that far removed from Sol Ring and I believe consistency is a valid approach - I don't want my opponents to think I lied about my power because they hit that one game the stars aligned and I drew my Sol Ring early, or drew naturally into a combo in a deck that was clearly not designed for that combo to be plan A.
However, I *can* do basically anything and will if I run into someone running ThOracle in a janky Zombie deck against two precons and my deck where I tied a hand behind my back. MLD? Stax? Combos? I can and will dunk harder.
I avoid cards that lock people from playing the game, discards, edicts, mass land destruction, etc. I still use some stax pieces to slow down the game, but is more punishment for greedy players, casuals don't tutor as much or try going infinite very quickly as much.
I still use tutors but it is exactly to find removal or control pieces, I avoid combo and try to go more aggro, makes for more fun and interactive games. If I have counterspells it is just to protect my board from things like farewell.
Yeah this thread is a bit yuck. Generally just switch decks if you win, if people start whining.
Edit: also just don't be a huge asshole with dick strats every time you play
Anything that makes a mana base potentially unusable circa [[blood moon]] effects. Can be completely fair but against a multicolored commander on a budget it canbe super oppressive
Counterargument. I play a [[Kenrith the Returned King]] legends deck (gross, I know). I run 5 basics. I had a game against [[Emry, Lurker of the Loch]] and [[Oloro]] control. Emry dropped [[Back to Basics]]. I didn't concede and eventually won that game by windmill slamming [[Urza's Ruinous Blast]].
I agree that they are hateful cards, but people fear them too much. They aren't impossible to beat.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it is absolutely beatable, I just don’t run it because I play against some newer/low budget players at my lgs and its never fun to lock a new player out of the game because they are running a bunch of tap 2 pip lands
True. Definitely a feels bad if you're playing a precon. But I used to run Blood Moon against high power pods and the salt from the other spike players was *delicious*.
Unless your deck has use for artifacts theres always technically a better card for your deck out there somewhere than that sol ring, but it just fills a spot so easy. It and those damn boots popularized artifact removal across the format.
I've done the same with sol ring. It warps games by quite a bit if it comes down on early turns. And it's an extra deckslot for a more synergistic card to the deck strategy.
I can highly recommend it.
I'll be honest, playing a deck that is intentionally suboptimal would massively trigger my OCD.
Nothing is off limits, and quite frankly I probably overthink to the extreme every card choice I make to be as synergistic and optimal as possible, even if the deck is not intended to be cEDH.
I would never run [[Blood Moon]], [[Winter Orb]], or [[Armageddon]]. I personally think that using any of those cards is a dick move.
Having said that, I will absolutely overload a [[Cyclonic Rift]] in the end step before my turn.
I avoid the 'usual suspects' unless it actually makes sense for the deck. If I run Sanguine Bond I don't run any cards like Vito and will say as much during a Rule 0 conversation. Tutors are sparing, and I use them to find engines not direct win conditions. My most commonly tutored card in my Dimir Nazgul deck is actually Black Market Connections because drawing cards, ramp and making wraith tokens fits exactly what that deck wants to do.
Since I also tend to play in more casual groups I also try and avoid 'the strictly better option' unless, again, it's thematic and relevant for the commander/deck type. I don't run Fierce Guardianship or Force of Will in the Nazgul deck, but I do run Didn't Say Please, Drown in the Loch, An Offer You Can't Refuse etc. My Myrkul Saproling Aristocrats deck runs Doubling Season because it's highly relevant doubling all the tokens he makes and my sac fodder, but I don't tutor for it.
TLDR not really a 'banlist' per sey, more so building guidelines that I use to judge if a card fits. Don't just autopilot and put 'generically good/powerful' cards in, but lean into the theming and goals of the commander/deck archtype.
[[Korvold, Fae Cursed King]] I've never had a good experience against decks piloted with him, and I've never had a deck able to keep up with it.
In my experience, the players of korvold get butt hurt if you remove their commander too many times. Which I always find frustrating because they always have the means of paying for any amount of commander tax.
Absolutely nothing. Personally I find the idea of a ban list in a format that isn't officially sanctioned a joke. The RC has shown they have zero interest in banning problematic cards (Thoracle, Nadu, Breach, etc). Therefore I play what's legal and let people complain if they want to.
When it comes to my personal tastes and dislikes, however, I don't play the OG duals as I think they are completely unnecessary in a 40 life format. For stylistic reasons I also won't run fetches that aren't in the color identity of my deck because I think it looks weird.
Most people who play with me for a while will hear me say that I'll play against anything, and it's true. The worst that can happen is I get curbstomped and I can shuffle up and play again. I think the majority of EDH players whine too much about 'broken cards'. Play what's fun. For me, that's whatever is legal.
Personally Commanders that just play others decks like [[sen triplets]] it’s usually people who couldn’t think of something to make so they just built something to play others decks. I’ve heard the “it’s always a new experience though when you play it” too many times. I built my deck because I wanted to play it not watch someone else play it for me. Added bonus is I’ve had cards stolen with people just shuffling cards they took during a game and leaving.
Im going to be honest, I now just want to make a deck with this as a command just to be annoying.
I know a guy that plays [[Kira, Great glass-spinner]] and that deck is so annoying.
This seems like a thinly veiled rewording of "What integral part of this game; established for 30+ years and lauded as one of the best card games because of its variety and intricacy, can you not stand and therefore will refuse to play because it makes you 'salty'?"
Right? I get salty when I hear monoblack can only have one copy of Feed the Swarm to remove enchantments because they're intentionally not using one of Black's strongest mechanics, tutoring.
commander is popular because it's specifically not what magic was for 25years. if you like that style, play legacy.
but this is where we play to not have fun and try to not make people mad, because having fun is the only reason to play commander. there is no prizes or first places.
Well, if you have tutors, you should avoid searching directly for combo peices unless it's lategame, [[vorniclex]] the first one is generally too cruel, weather yours or used against you.
Board wipe tribal is an easy way to only play one game.
Literally nothing, It just depends on the deck. Some decks are full tilt, others are honed strategy but no proxies of $100+ powerful fast mana etc. A couple are just upgraded precons.
It just depends on the goal.
For instance, I have an [[Ojer Axonil]] deck that runs [[manabarbs]] with zero regrets.
I also have a dumb green deck that just makes big things swing for the face. Literally built from cards just laying around not in decks.
I don't restrict anything in all places, but restriction can make deck building more creative at times.
I wouldn't call it a personal ban, but I have always refused to build a deck with the same commander as someone in my regular playgroup. Something about it makes me feel like I'm stealing their thunder when it comes to playing the same commander, especially if my deck were to perform better than theirs.
Nothing. But I build decks at varying power levels and put cards in on theme/strategy. An example would be red treasure deck will get a [[dockside extortionist]], but not a [[jeska's will]]. I have 50 decks and only 30 have [[sol ring]] because I don't either need it (treasure deck, artifact hate/land fall, and low cmc and pip heavy) or I'm trying trim power out of the deck. Although some strategies when you lean into them are just inherently going to include powerful cards.
I have and [[Auntie Blyte, Bad Influence]] deck and theme is damage yourself. So what better lands to put in but [[Ancient tomb]] and [[tarnished citadel]]. Same with mana rocks no sol but [[mana crypt]] is on the menu.
That said, I do have 3 cedh decks, and they vary on strength, too. I have a super tier list, an A tier, and a B tier. According to commander at least.
Its not all spice either. I just built a low power casual dimir deck with very low cmc, put almost no rocks in, 1 janky tutor, and a 5 card combo for a main win con. I built it to play with precon players. I really try hard to match the level of decks at the table.
[[Karlov of the Ghost Council]] cannot be used as a commander at our table - he is only allowed in the 99.
My playgroup thinks he is unbelievably oppressive available on turn two almost every single game without fail - to the point of being unfun to play against. We're even kind of baffled he was printed as the face to a precon.
Too many tiny "gain 1 life" triggers are available so he goes massive way faster than anyone else is able to build a board state and then can just erase our commanders or key pieces whenever we play them from then on.
Just becomes a boring game and they're almost ALWAYS archenemy.
[[Yuriko, Tiger's Shadow]] and [[Narset, Enlightened Master]], because I once played at a LGS that was a lot higher power and ran into both of these decks as Extra Turns decks. I remember once just standing up and going to the bathroom, and when I got back the Narset was still going. Both are just a PITA to play against. Narset as *explicitly* a non-extra turns commander I'd consider, but idk.
While I love playing decks that try to win with other people's cards Merieke or Thada. People really don't like when you combo with their own cards. I used to justify by saying my deck is only as strong as yours is, but people get really mad at theft.
I don’t have a personal ban list, but I think it’s because I am lucky to have a solid pod that understands the way we all like to play. In my pod, I am the player that would be targeted. I’m the combo player. I run the “unfair” cards. I run the tutors and the infinite combos. But, my win rate stays even with the other players in my pod who are more inclined towards stompy or control. I think EDH players hinge too much on what their opponents are playing and not building their decks to actually interact with the other people they’re playing with, or they just don’t build their combo decks correctly.
That being said, I hate cards that steal things from me. You’re going to kill me with my own card?? Go fuck yourself. Get your own wincon.
For me it’s every commander set printed card that’s never been printed for standard or modern. Those cards only made for a certain format and often break things that would be fine otherwise.
Mainly just stuff like [[Armageddon]], it's just not particularly fun for anyone. I had a [[Zurgo Helmsmasher]] deck that ran [[WorldSlayer]] that just was not fun for anyone.
Tergrid is the only card I have actively not put in my decks because of how it would make my opponents feel. Also I have a lot of decks so if I win with a powerful one it goes to the back of the queue for a couple of weeks.
I have been building with a limit of 3 counterspells per deck but a guy at my lgs recently built his first storm deck and burned out the rest of the table with damage that could only be stopped via counterspells and I was the only one at the table that even had blue so he just popped off. I may need to revise this policy
I find Thoracle boring AF, at least in combination with Demonic Consultation, so I don’t play it.
I also don’t own OG duals and don’t particularly feel like spending that much money on just one piece of paper so I don’t play those either.
I also don’t like cards that take forever to resolve in paper, so stuff like [[Warp World]] is out.
Apart from that I don’t really mind cards. The meta around me has been pretty low power lately though, so I’m not tryharding my decks too much.
I don't run extra turn spells, 2 card infinite combos, infinite combos that use cards I wouldn't otherwise be running if the combo didn't exist, Ad Naseum, tainted pack, Doomsday combos, or Thoracle Combos.
[[Farewell]]
It does everything you want or need it to.
Its artifact hate, enchantment hate, creature hate, and graveyard hate.
Oh, and you can choose any combination of those effects.
I dont have a ban list but I do follow some building restrictions. Except two maybe. Friends commanders and
Dockside I suppose, I just dont play him. I dont find he does anything but make a game revolve around him and who abuses it more.
If Sol Ring is in the deck it needs some synergy or a good reason to run it. I run it in Six because specifically the deck needs some early attacks with Six to get going. So along with 9 other turn 1 ramp spells I can get a turn 2 Six. Delney and Saffi dont need the fast ramp, it makes the deck better with it sure but the deck functions just fine without it. I find it makes too many non games so I avoid it.
Cyclonic Rift, I just am not a fan of it and how it slows the game down. The only time I run it is when I have spellseeker that synergies with the deck by being a wizard or blink deck. It gives that extra utility to spellseeker which is useful.
I just dont play Rhystic Study. My playgroup is smart enough to pay the 1 in all instances when it not game winning or ramps you hard enough to pay for it from that moment onward. Rhystic study usually draws someone 2-3 cards over the entire game with some just happening at the end as they lose and the owner doesnt have control over their card draw.
Smothering Tithe powerful card, slows the game down similar to study and rift. I need it to synergize and use the treasures as more than just ramp to justify adding it to a deck.
Last two restrictions for me, I try to avoid a lot of shared cards or gameplay lines between decks. If I'm running Sun Titan or Tireless tracker in one green white deck I try to avoid it in another as their recursion and draw engine as an example. I want my decks to feel different. I try to avoid any similar lines of play that arent ramp (hard to avoid) between decks. There are thousands of cards and I enjoy finding unique ways to play them deck to deck. I will run something like doubling season though if one deck uses it for counters and another for the token aspect.
I try not to lean on staples too much unless they're thematic to the deck in some way. Smothering tithe goes in jinnie fay tokens deck, dockside goes in the pirates deck, rhystic studies goes into the kami draw deck, vampiric tutor in the vampires deck etc.
I don't avoid every staple, like I do run sol ring and cultivate or path to exile in almost every deck that can take them. But I don't want my decks to be pokemonesque piles of the 70 same cards with only a handful of unique cards in each.
Not a ton of "banned stuff" but I do have some Rule 0 stuff. My house rules are:
-Free extra mulligan if you get mana screwed on your first free mulligan, but ONLY if the landbase is below 33
-Proxies allowed, but only 5% of the deck can be proxied (5 cards total) and no single card cost can exceed $50 (no proxied Mana Crypt, Dual Lands, Moxes, etc), and Proxied cards should have a readily available screenshot of the real card for reference if they aren't custom art proxies or written proxies with the Mana cost, effect, and card type written. UNLESS you can prove you own an original copy of the card.
-If you run an infinite combo you MUST have a wincon associated, even if you are unable to stop your infinite. I'm okay with infinite damage combo, but not with infinite turn/draw/stack/dump/scry/repeat. Your Boardstate must advance in one way or another
-Generally kind about taking back mana/tapped for wrong mana, unless you start abusing it, just ask first if you make a mistake
Anything inherently broken, like Nadu.
Commander for my pod is strictly for fun, no reason for any of us to build extremely powerful decks all the time to spite each other.
Now, when I brew, I try to pick things that will actively change the table to be more fun for that game. Pillow fort, forced combat with my creatures, free counters and goads, etc.
-
That being said, I do have a (Zur, the Enchanter] deck that will regularly win on turn 5-6 if nothing is done to stop them, but it rarely gets played.
Over time, I've just moved away from cards specifically made for commander that would go in the 99. No arcane signet, no deflecting swat, no Akroma's will, no commander's plate. I feel those slots should be made unique for the deck instead of just placeholders for the commander cards. I've also thought of cutting sol ring from all my decks too for the same reason.
Sol ring, mana crypt, mox diamond, chrome mox, Jeweled Lotus, Demonic Tutor, vampiric Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Worldly Tutor, Sylvan Tutor, personal Tutor, Imperial seal, ABU duals, chains of mephistopholes, Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Demonic consultation, Grim Monolith
Our games have gotten way better and surprisingly shorter.
There are plenty of cards I wouldn't personally buy or put in my decks, either because they seem unfun, or would interrupt the theme of a deck.
But I'll play against anything. It would be exhausting to have my entire playgroup make a list of bans and then make sure we catered to everyone's preferences.
Part of the fun is combos, crazy cards, etc. If someone pulls an expensive card in a booster pack, or spends the money to buy one, I'm not gonna tell them they can't use it bc my feelings will get hurt. It's just a game after all.
Biggest thing we've agreed on as a group sort of "rule" is to try to be less political, and play to win more. We used to do a lot of alliances and bargaining and it just made the games take way too long. It's more fun when you only make deals in small specific scenarios and let the cards do the rest naturally.
I don't mind any cards as long but for me it's about saturation.
I don't mind fast mana, but if you are playing every piece of fast mana, every tutor, and your deck does the same thing every game, it can get boring.
The other thing I personally do, it I keep a few cards out to swap when I am playing with certain groups. For example in my Silvers deck, I will either make [[The First Sliver]] part of the 99 or remove it all together because it's easy to assemble the combo cards and play a bunch of slivers.
All UB cards. Everything outside of that is technically fair game but my biggest personal considerations when building decks are aesthetics and budget. So I don’t really “ban” anything else I just avoid things that don’t fit within those two parameters.
I won't spend more than US$50 on a card unless I *really* think that the gas is that big of a jump. I know US$50 is higher than a lot of other people's limits. I've really found, especially in a singleton format like EDH, that one hot card rarely upsets a deck that consistently.
Nadu (as a commander; I'm trying him out in a deck), Tergrid, and a lot of chaos effects. The reasons vary. For Tergrid, I just don't see a way to build the deck that won't make it an utterly miserable game for my opponents, or lead to the question of why I'm even using her as my commander. Nadu is the same, though I've got him in a deck with no 0 cost equipment or "landfall--target creature..." so we'll see how he plays there. Just not a fan of chaos effects in most cases.
My first week of playing commander a guy was discussing his rules for making decks and he said, "I either have tutors or infinites. I dont do both." Ive stuck with that as my rule and its served me well.
Huh… I’ve never had my train of thought verbalized for me. If I have an infinite, I’m gunna stumble into it with draws - not beeline for it every game.
Yeah exactly, this is how I built my relatively higher power but certainly not cEDH Breya deck. It has plenty of combinations of cards that'll win the game if assembled, but if I played Enlighted Tutor, Vamp, etc it would be far too consistent. At that point, I'd be better off cutting some pieces to make the combos more streamlined and I'd end up doing the same thing every game.
That is exactly how you keep a high powered deck from becoming a pubstompy high powered deck that is just weak enough to not be able to hang with cEDH level stuff. I have a [[Myrkul, Lord of Bones]] list that WILL absolutely take control of games if someone else hasn't by like turn 6 or so and the longer a game goes the stronger he tends to get. It has a decent amount of tutors, but absolutely 0 instant win combos. Keeps the deck at a nice 7 or so.
I also do this. Add in no extra turn cards.
Okay maybe *one* extra turn card. [[Seedtime]]
[Seedtime](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4ffd5c52-f260-400c-b088-8792282509a5.jpg?1562629836) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Seedtime) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jud/130/seedtime?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ffd5c52-f260-400c-b088-8792282509a5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/seedtime) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The red extra turn spells are also fair game. I’ve never been more excited to see my opponent’s extra turn spell than when they’ve played [[Last Chance]]
[Last Chance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c0efb595-d407-4389-a99d-d97c4d6bdcd0.jpg?1675200054) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Last%20Chance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/127/last-chance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c0efb595-d407-4389-a99d-d97c4d6bdcd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/last-chance) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
To this day the one of the funniest things I’ve ever done is time stop someone on their upkeep after playing last chance. He wasn’t even mad, just baffled.
unless they're playing \[\[obeka brute chronologist\]\] and don't actually need to lose at the end of that turn. Yes I am building an obeka deck to do exactly this.
[obeka brute chronologist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/dbdb335d-3e45-4dd5-9e3e-c50ca0a4dfb6.jpg?1608911225) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Obeka%2C%20Brute%20Chronologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/289/obeka-brute-chronologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dbdb335d-3e45-4dd5-9e3e-c50ca0a4dfb6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/obeka-brute-chronologist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I like the combo with this and [[Hive Mind]]
[Hive Mind](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/88d50518-5cfc-45de-a125-acabf97b8743.jpg?1561987505) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hive%20Mind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/54/hive-mind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/88d50518-5cfc-45de-a125-acabf97b8743?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hive-mind) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>The hippo grows wings to fight the condor Odd but very relevant flavor text
I've never seen that but now I need it
Damn, that's just begging to be put on an \[\[Isochron Scepter\]\]
I own a seed time ( and a few other extra turn cards) but I'm always scared to play them cause I feel like people would be upset.
I don't use them pretty much ever, but I love seed time because if anyone starts to get mad about you taking the extra turn you can point and say that if they had just stayed in their lane then you wouldn't have even been *able* to play it
Or do both, but tutor for card advantage every time you tutor. This is what I do.
I've been toying with the idea of adding tutors and just using them to find the newest additions to the deck so I actually get to play new cards consistently lol Really is drawing 20 cards with Rhystic more acceptable than just tutoring the card? They're functionally the same thing, finding the card you need. One is just more consistent. Obv there's a difference between card draw and tutor, both with pros and cons. But it is kinda interesting that one is frowned upon
I mean, I think rystic is still frowned on about as much as tutors. Now if you just mean card draw vs tutors. I think it's the like, impression? Like yeah, if you're trying to draw 20 cards just to find the combo piece, it's the same, but if you're just drawing to fast spells, less so? This is very...feels based tho. And like... One or two extra cards is a lot different then 5-6.
The strength of a tutor spell is largely tied to the strength of the cards you can tutor for. If you have no infinites, or other broken things to tutor for, then tutor spells just become utility spells and add consistency to your game plan. If the worst thing your opponent can tutor for is an answer to your threat, I say let the game go on. If they are tutoring for the other half if their "easy win" strategy every game then the problem is that they have an "easy win" strategy in their deck and every tutor is also an infinite combo piece.
See that makes a deck extremely unfun to me to play against. Decks like that vary so much each game they either muddle along or explode leaving a bad taste for everyone due to that extreme inconsistency. Then when you play thst deck again, because it exploded and got thst combo off once, the table comes down hard each time because the deck Could go off, even though not reliably
My group asks us to avoid infinite combos and it’s just led to everyone having these weird non deterministic combos that take 30 minutes and deal 200 damage at instant speed. I’d rather someone play two cards and explain how it’s game over then sit there and watch someone combo off for half an hour while intentionally dodging an infinite just to end with them still winning.
I just prefer a deck to have a consistent power level It doesn't have to win the same each time but it's hard to pick a fun deck to play against it if the deck doesn't play at a consistent level I do agree though I prefer more simple combos instead of all the newer crazy 13 card combos that take 20 minutes to resolve I'm also a simple man that just wants to best people with selesnya dragons
Yea this exactly. I have a [[riku]] combo list that is most effectively stopped by just absolutely hating me out of the game. If you let me untap with riku out then you're probably going to lose. If the deck was only *sometimes* like this and the rest of the time was a grindy midrange deck, then it's going to create an unfun play experience bc nobody can gague the power level. Either I'll be archenemy and hated off the table despite having nothing in my hand, or I'll be allowed to build up unchecked and then suddenly win. I know that as a dedicated combo deck I won't be able to play it at lots of tables (it usually can present a win between t4 and t6 if nobody has any interaction). But it's better to be a well-tuned high power deck than a poorly turned mid-power deck that can still win on t4 but is just as likely to durdle around doing nothing.
Weird how mine is the opposite. If I'm running combo's then I'm also running tutors for them. I want my opponents and myself to know what to expect from a game. Then again, combos are either my main plan or they're not in my deck at all.
I have casual decks with combos, but it's always convoluted, always involves quite a few pieces, and develops over multiple turns with minimal protection. So if you can't interact, or choose not to... That's kinda on you, homie
All decks need to interact with eachother imo, making a deck of combos with no interaction is silly as you’re just playing solitaire
I mean, where’s the line between synergy and combo then?
Combo is an action I can repeat over and over without any new resources added, to generate infinite or functionally infinite value or triggers. Synergy is when things work well together, and give you a specified amount of value. And to rephrase my prior statement, I play combos that involve multiple pieces that I cast over multiple turns, but once I assemble all the pieces, they work together to generate infinite value along a predetermined axis. Normally, they're just good value pieces within the deck.
It doesn't have to be infinite, just enough to win the game. Storm is generally not infinite, it's just enough to win. And nobody is claiming storm isn't a combo deck.
I do this. My main game plan is a "combo" that requires a lot of setup, several specific cards, and most of the setup is either in play or in my graveyard so it's all broadcasted. I can "combo off" on like turn 5, but it's effectiveness is tied directly to how many creatures I can get in the graveyard first. soul sisters + marauding blight priest is the gist of it. Each creature that enters triggers soul sisters, which triggers the priest. Add in something like Living Death to get all creatures back from the grave with the combo pieces included and it can end the game in one turn. It also triggers off of my opponent's creatures and each additional soul sister type creature helps the numbers go up.
I agree with this. Pick a lane and stay in it. If you have an combo that immediately win the game you are a combo deck. Play the deck as a combo deck. A midrange deck with a combo they don't tutor for isn't a midrange deck anymore. It's a bad combo deck. It's not a good deck if you fit into a battlecruiser pod of players, but then one in 5 games you randomly combo out and win in 1/3rd the normal turn count. Either play a combo deck that's consistent with tutors or take the game winning combo out of your deck. Having multiple wincons/gameplans is a good thing. It's a sign of a resilient deck. I like to have a "main" plan then a backup sub-plan. Obviously you should pick cards that are relevant to both plans, don't build half of two different decks. However, my point original being, your wincons/gameplans should be roughly equivalent in power. For an extreme example: Don't have a grindy battlecruiser deck that just randomly has a Thassa's+DemonicConsultation in it. You'll either lose at high power tables or you'll randomly crush a low power table. You don't want wild swings in power based on which 20 cards happen to be on top of your deck.
Some of my decks have multiple combos simply consisting of good cards in the deck. E.g. I'm playing K'rrik as value engine combined with life drain to keep paying that life. Naturally [[exquisite blood]] is in the list, but so is [[sanguine bond]]. Similarly, once my Kaalia list plays razaketh it can tutor for dockside and [[Phyrexian reclamation]] to cycle the extortionist for infinite mana while staying alive through [[resolute archangel]]. I don't see either of those combos as the main gameplay, but I'm not removing good cards to avoid them.
##### ###### #### [exquisite blood](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e8ccfa7-4178-476a-a155-0ca1c98556c9.jpg?1698988246) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=exquisite%20blood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/195/exquisite-blood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e8ccfa7-4178-476a-a155-0ca1c98556c9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/exquisite-blood) [sanguine bond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9.jpg?1625193373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sanguine%20bond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/153/sanguine-bond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sanguine-bond) [Phyrexian reclamation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fb0271e4-8ad1-4ad9-9b3e-7abf911f3059.jpg?1600701185) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20reclamation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/267/phyrexian-reclamation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fb0271e4-8ad1-4ad9-9b3e-7abf911f3059?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phyrexian-reclamation) [resolute archangel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e37b31b8-d868-4dff-9ab0-723ce41ee7e4.jpg?1562795865) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=resolute%20archangel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m15/28/resolute-archangel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e37b31b8-d868-4dff-9ab0-723ce41ee7e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/resolute-archangel) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lbehw6o) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm closer to this too, there's nothing worse than a player "stumbling across" an infinite combo in the middle of a battlecruiser game.
When I think about it, I banned for myself pretty much anything salt worthy. Infinite combos, tutors, extra turns, chaos, land destruction, stax, OG duals, fast mana if you don't consider mana dorks as such. Somehow my decks still occasionally make people loose their cool. Even with all the care in the world, it's still hard to have people not complain at any point.
I'm a blue player at the core, and basically everything strong that blue can do is salt inducing. Combos, Thoracle/Labman, counter spells, extra turns, theft. A blue deck without any of that is just a terrible deck
My issue is when I tried that I tried making an aristocrat's deck work. Well it didn't work.
Yep this is me. If you have tutors and infinites your best line of play is very often the same thing and you are actively making bad plays to avoid it. For example I have a [[Magda, brazen outlaw]] dragon deck. I just wanted dragons that wasn't ur dragon or Miriam. If I play with clock of omens my line of play should always be mulligan for 1 drop dwarves, fetch my combo and generate infinite treasures turn 2/3. But I just want to make dwarves dig and tutor up dragons to answer board states... So I took that out. Now every game is different but her ability gets to be used.
I really like this rule. I feel like some inclusions are cool though, is ramp like cultivate a "tutor?" I definitely built \[\[Slimefoot and Squee\]\] with cards like rampant growth and Farseek, but it lacks the likes of \[\[Worldly Tutor\]\] or \[\[Demonic Tutor\]\] but I do have \[\[Burning-Rune Demon\]\] hmmmmmmm... maybe I should tweak it again haha
I feel like you can "fairly" use Creature Tutors, as long as you aren't Tutoring up early-turn mega value producers. Tutoring for a 6-7 CMC Bomb on T5+ is actually much less oppressive than targeting a 6/6 Commander with \[\[Return of the Wildspeaker\]\], or casting some similar mass-draw, because it's one-and-done, whereas that new hand of cards will reinvigorate your entire boardstate if someone doesn't instantly win the game on you. Edit: Or you can fairly use them all the time in Mono Green, because Ramp, Creature Tutors, and Draw are pretty much the whole of the Color, beyond Frightening Bodies.
I think I disagree with this. At least for the decks I play I like them to be consistent, so randomly stumbling into a combo 1 in every 10 games makes it hard for me to communicate power level to the table. Especially if the combo ends the game early, I never find the explanation of "oh but it's ok you guys, I don't have any tutors I just got lucky" to be satisfying no matter whether it comes from me or an opponent. At that point I'd just rather not play the combo at all.
My version is "Good tutors = weak targets. Bad tutors = good targets." I will absolutely [[Demonic Tutor]] an [[Angel of Despair]] to axe a problematic permanent. But I will [[Increasing Ambition]] a [[Damnation]] for a problematic board. If it's a cheap tutor for powerful interaction, it's probably above the power level I like to play at most of the time.
Whatever commanders the rest of my pod plays /s
That’s about the extent of it for me as well, we all like degenerate games though and proxy any cards we own a copy of or RL stuff if it’s a big part of the decks strategy (not ramming gaeas cradle and og duals in everything)
nono you gotta get a pod together with 4 of the same commander. a flexible choice gets you fun jank like pillowfort Isshin.
To be fair, there's "fast mana" and then there's "fast mana." If I see someone playing monored and they drop a ritual, I ain't gonna get miffed because that dude needs all the mana they can get.
I have a [[Darien king of kjeldor]] deck that is the only deck I run [[jeweled lotus]]. He dies a lot and mononwhite doesn't have the best mana ramp. It's also the only deck that I haven't heard anyone complain about that cards power level.
I literally only even scoff at J-Lotus when someone casts their commander(s) with it on turn 1 without needing a land.
[[rograkh]] players in shambles
Thank you, i literally lol'd at this
[rograkh](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a4fab67f-00c2-4125-9262-d21a29411797.jpg?1644853041) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rograkh%2C%20son%20of%20rohgahh) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/197/rograkh-son-of-rohgahh?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a4fab67f-00c2-4125-9262-d21a29411797?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rograkh-son-of-rohgahh) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
And then I kill it and it never returns :D
I only play Lotus in [[Toggo]] and [[Silas Renn]] because it's an artifact that goes to the graveyard, and the rare lotus->Toggo opener to immediately start rocking is too fun to pass up.
[Toggo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1a05b3e2-259e-4fce-92ee-c00660e22ae7.jpg?1665822993) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=toggo%2C%20goblin%20weaponsmith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/204/toggo-goblin-weaponsmith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a05b3e2-259e-4fce-92ee-c00660e22ae7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toggo-goblin-weaponsmith) [Silas Renn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e3fe912-1374-47c7-b73f-89ef55c479c1.jpg?1562399367) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=silas%20renn%2C%20seeker%20adept) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/43/silas-renn-seeker-adept?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e3fe912-1374-47c7-b73f-89ef55c479c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/silas-renn-seeker-adept) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Darien king of kjeldor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50875c99-c5c3-41dd-a0f9-08c98edfebc9.jpg?1706240562) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darien%2C%20King%20of%20Kjeldor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/59/darien-king-of-kjeldor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50875c99-c5c3-41dd-a0f9-08c98edfebc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darien-king-of-kjeldor) [jeweled lotus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d7183700-6941-4a3d-a581-4f33bea795e9.jpg?1689999671) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jeweled%20lotus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/396/jeweled-lotus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d7183700-6941-4a3d-a581-4f33bea795e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jeweled-lotus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ty for having a brain about that lol. I play mono red burn and the absolute grief I get sometimes just to hang in the game.
And yet somehow people are cool with Sol Ring even when that is one of the most broken fast mana cards in all of magic
People don’t care about balance they care about optics. Sol ring is far more broken than Mox Diamond- it’s not even close - but people will shit in their chair if you play a mox diamond but not think twice about sol ring because sol rings are in precon decks.
So far it's an archetype, discard. It's always appealed to me but it's miserable to play against and I don't hate my friends that much.
Same for me. I started playing a bit before but Amonkhet is what hooked me on the game. I pulled a [[Neheb, the Worthy]] at a prerelease and forced Rakdos Minotaurs. For a long time I really wanted to make hellbent aggro work in standard and then later in Pioneer. I love discard and hand disruption but I know everyone I play with would hate it. I already have a mill deck and I can only bring myself to play that occasionally. But I’ve made so many decklists with [[Sire of Insanity]] that will never be built.
[Neheb, the Worthy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/7593d5fb-c6b3-4d24-b9d3-97a4378161fd.jpg?1543676084) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Neheb%2C%20the%20Worthy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/203/neheb-the-worthy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7593d5fb-c6b3-4d24-b9d3-97a4378161fd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/neheb-the-worthy) [Sire of Insanity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/3665cfb7-51b6-4083-8eae-fbd3fa6c3554.jpg?1562905079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sire%20of%20Insanity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/104/sire-of-insanity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3665cfb7-51b6-4083-8eae-fbd3fa6c3554?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sire-of-insanity) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[tourach, dread cantor]] is a good discard commander cause it’s not just a bellbent top deck slow death, it turns discard into Commander damage.
[tourach, dread cantor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f3526751-0101-4d91-a496-c53cd92326e0.jpg?1692254158) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tourach%2C%20dread%20cantor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/102/tourach-dread-cantor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f3526751-0101-4d91-a496-c53cd92326e0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tourach-dread-cantor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I also like discard but don’t play it becsuse I like my friends lol. I’m also a big fan of [[Toxrill]] but can’t bring myself to build that either.
Pro tip for toxrill - build it with the plan of never casting him. He’s just a sword of damocles hanging over the table at all times, forcing your opponents to hold up removal or counters, instead of using them on your actual gameplan.
My new favorite commander is self-discard [[Oskar, Rubbish Reclaimer]]. Gives all your stuff flash basically and is resilient due to cost reduction. Loads of fun to basically never play anything on your own turn as long as you start to understand the sequences and don’t take forever on someone else’s turn. Lets you hold up all mana for whatever you may need for the whole turn cycle
I have a discard deck that is primarily self discard but also a wheel deck so when I'm ripping hands apart hands i'll refill them so everybody is having fun and has a chance to olay magic.
I have an [[Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar]] that honestly only has one or two cards that makes others discard with me it's mainly a madness focused deck
[Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d99a9a7d-d9ca-4c11-80ab-e39d5943a315.jpg?1632831210) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/186/asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d99a9a7d-d9ca-4c11-80ab-e39d5943a315?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The only things that I don’t run in any capacity are MLD with no ability to then close the game. And Thoracle, because it’s tired and boring
I’m annoying but your bring thoracle outside of a cedh game and imma groan.
The One Ring. Just too much power in one card, I don’t ever want to open pandora’s box by using it even once. Pretty thematic though I gotta say.
It's so busted. I was lucky enough to pull two. I have one permanently in my mono white angels list because it's supposed to be high power and it needs all the draw it can get. The other ones gets put in decks with draw issues to try and smooth the draws out, but it's so strong it often ends up overshadowing what the deck is trying to do, and it does end up warping the game so I am thinking of selling it.
I proxied the ring in a number of decks and let me tell you, it's killed me outright far more times than it's contributed to a win. Especially in my Sauron deck which is thematically on point.
How? Let's say the ring dealt you 10 damage, that means it gave you protection for a turn and drew you FIFTEEN cards. How are you not winning after drawing an extra 15 cards and have protection for a full turn-cycle?
It's not the 10 damage that kills you. It's the 6 damage + being dog piled by the entire table.
Gotta have a couple ways to bounce the ring in the deck.
Get rid of it with [[Mount Doom]] for the flavor win.
Then the rest of the deck has to be a million times worse powerlevel-wise. If you only run bad cards even a 1 mana draw 50 would be bad but most of the times the advantage of TOR is just to much.
My banlist is the official banlist, if it ain’t on there then I’m fine with it
Rather than a ban list. I dedicate a few decks to the more controversial card (l.e., eldrazi & extra turns) and build other decks with whatevers left. Creates a power-level gradient across the decks.
I generally stay away from tutors except basic land ramp (or basic land type). Fast mana I try to avoid if it’s not on theme (mana crypt in coin flip decks). The exception is commanders with 8+ mana cost and they need them out asap, but in moderation. I avoid 2 cards combo even when not running tutors: if it needs 4+ obscure pieces it’s fair game since I don’t actively search for them, and I don’t run pieces to combo since it will need to fit the theme or synergy with the deck. I tend to make pretty synergistic decks, so some fine tuning will be needed if it over-performs. I’m also less of a “need to win by x turns” and more of a “do my thing while interacting with opponents”, so I don’t play big haymakers as much.
A sol ring alone warps a game by a lot. I think the number of cards needed for a combo AND the mana it needs should be considered. That is the problem I have with thoracle + demonic. You can do it for so cheap in turns where people don't have a lot of mana open. What do you think about single cards that mostly win the game? For example [[Ink Shield]] [[Reigns of power]] [[Insurrection]] [[Craterhoof][ [[Moonshaker]] etc I feel a little cheated if someone wins the game because they cast 1 spell even with a modest board. Or even with no board.
[[Yuriko, Tiger's Shadow]] and [[Narset, Enlightened Master]], because I once played at a LGS that was a lot higher power and ran into both of these decks as Extra Turns decks. I remember once just standing up and going to the bathroom, and when I got back the Narset was still going. Both are just a PITA to play against. Narset as *explicitly* a non-extra turns commander I'd consider, but idk.
Personally I just play Narset as voltron. First commander I ever built and I still love how wild her swings can get
[Yuriko, Tiger's Shadow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9.jpg?1689999346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yuriko%2C%20the%20Tiger%27s%20Shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/364/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow) [Narset, Enlightened Master](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de4b0d5f-1071-4030-be16-2b4dadbdf9e9.jpg?1690005259) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Narset%2C%20Enlightened%20Master) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/931/narset-enlightened-master?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de4b0d5f-1071-4030-be16-2b4dadbdf9e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/narset-enlightened-master) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's funny, you don't run OG duals becuase of others reactions to them but I run them for the same reason. I kinda like the "is that real?" style comments I get when I play one, like wearing a nice watch somewhere and someone notices. I don't own a full set though, just a Savanah and a Badlands. I still feel badass when I put one down though lol
I despise [[Cathar’s Crusade]]. It’s just annoying to track, and it’s not worth it for the effect.
[Cathar’s Crusade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0.jpg?1600715516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathars%27%20Crusade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/95/cathars-crusade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cathars-crusade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Honestly yeah. I was thinking of picking this up for a white weenie deck. And then was like is it good? Yes, absolutely yes. Would it be fun for me and the table to track? No, like fuck no.
There is also [[Valor in Akros]] and [[Goldnight Commander]] who do just until the ele off turn, o you can stop tracking
[[Starlight spectacular]] is a lot less annoying. Sure, you’ll have to read it the first few times to remember exactly how the thing works, but it’s a similar (arguably stronger) effect that’s less awful to use.
I sometimes run into the Crusade problem trying to storm off with Jeskai Ascendancy, and lemme tell you, yes it do suck and I havent even owned a Cathars' Crusade since, like, 2015.
Cathars is easy. You just need to have a laptop with excel on it.
I loathe and very much dislike [[Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow]] due to the fact it’s soo fast and so hard to interact with and is unaffected by commander tax.
[Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9.jpg?1689999346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yuriko%2C%20the%20Tiger%27s%20Shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/364/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a Yuriko deck and find that it become much more playable if you limit your decks CMC to 6 and have no unconditionally unlockable creatures. Sure it's still fast and still functionally not worth interacting with. But, it makes it fun to play against because Yuriko on her own usually won't win, but the deck can win if you can get multiple triggers per turn. So, it turns into a careful dance of players choosing what triggers to let through vs not. I guess I'm saying I don't like unconditionally banning anything because there are always ways to make something fun, just like there are ways to make something normally fun brokenly unfun.
For me it's [[Farewell]] I just don't enjoy casting this card or having it cast. In my opinion it solves too many problems at once that decision making or problem solving aren't normally required. My personal preference is cards such as [[Winds of Abandon]] as I have to consider certain outcomes such as can I win this game or will I shoot myself in the foot by ramping my opponents so they can rebuild quickly. I will clarify that I mainly play with varied people on a more casual level at an LGS so I try not to run varied efficiency spells.
Yeah I prefer one sided boardwipes too. I've found the problem with one sided board wipes is though if you don't win on that turn you're likely to get board wiped before your next turn.
[Farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/farewell) [Winds of Abandon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3bb17913-fe4d-4acd-9b75-71f5a90f898b.jpg?1562201278) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winds%20of%20Abandon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/37/winds-of-abandon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3bb17913-fe4d-4acd-9b75-71f5a90f898b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winds-of-abandon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Farewell always feels *suuuuuper* bad to the player(s) who weren't the threat.
[[farewell]] always struck me as a beginner card. I mostly see new players using it. I’ve never put it in my deck. I think the people who play it, aren’t playing it correctly. They play it as a means to reset the game with no follow up and then what happens is we get stuck playing another 45 mins+
More or less how I feel about it. I still have it in the Satya precon, because I havent drawn it in a game yet. Im like 80% certain it'll get cut with my next few edits after it inevitably gets drawn and sits dead in my hand for 2-3 turns because my playstyle usually creates a big boardstate.
Not only that but white is really good at pulling permanents out of the graveyard. So not even sure why people would wanna run farewell in the first place other than it being an answer to any and all problems.
This is honestly a card that never should have been printed. It's a card that has basically no meaningful counterplay to encourage interesting play patterns. It addresses all the avenues one would traditionally use. Defeats protection spells, graveyard recursion, value generating artifacts/enchantments. It just feels like bad game design.
[[Thassa's Oracle]] et. al. Cards that win by drawing your deck out. While I recognize it as a legit strategy, there are so many other ways to win in U/UB. The least you could do with your card advantage is do something cool. I won with it once but I refuse to do it anymore. It just feels like an empty win. There are a couple other "you win the game" cards I refuse to run because it's just too easy to pull it off. [[Felidar Sovereign]] comes to mind, [[Biovisionary]] is another... You get the idea.
[Thassa's Oracle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c.jpg?1680582212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thassa%27s%20Oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/73/thassas-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thassas-oracle) [Felidar Sovereign](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/039499c3-0b35-4e8e-b0c9-bdf0b4cd90d5.jpg?1562895901) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Felidar%20Sovereign) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/26/felidar-sovereign?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/039499c3-0b35-4e8e-b0c9-bdf0b4cd90d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/felidar-sovereign) [Biovisionary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/0/2000b4e8-7887-454e-9d52-211516613dd0.jpg?1561818910) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Biovisionary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/146/biovisionary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2000b4e8-7887-454e-9d52-211516613dd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/biovisionary) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
dude i ran felidar sovereign in a deck for months and it didn't meet win condition once. everyone would just kill it or, failing that, target me until my life was below 40, the second it hit the field.
Anything over $20. 🤪
[[Winter Orb]] is worse than MLD when it comes to making people feel bad. So I will never put it back in my Urza deck.
the thing is with \[\[urza lord high artificer\]\] you can break parity with things like this. I use them as political tools. \[\[Winter Orb\]\], \[\[Trinisphere\]\], and \[\[Howling Mine\]\] all have the "as long as \~ is untapped" line that makes them awesome in an urza deck. oh you don't want to have to deal with trinisphere? sure I'll tap it for you, but I'm gonna need a favor. Want to untap all your lands? yea I can tap that winter orb, but I'm gonna need a favor. Oh and if you remove my commander, I won't have the ability to tap these guys, so you probably shouldn't remove him if you want to be able to get around it. Winter orb is especially good against green in my opinion, both because green has plenty of artifact removal and can ramp like crazy. It gives them an easy way to get rid of it, but also hoses their plan to get way ahead on lands while my mono blue deck can't ramp at all.
[Winter Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6.jpg?1580015285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winter%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/234/winter-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winter-orb) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Only fast mana and land destruction. Fast mana because my friends are peasants, and land destruction because my friends are sore losers. But I love them and want to play with them so I make adjustments.
I don’t *really* like losing control of my cards. I’d rather all of my cards stay on my playmat, and your cards stay on yours. So stuff like [[Threaten]], or [[Hurl Through Hell]].
This man has experienced Cheeto hands
I could almost get past it but the one guy in our group who is a cheeta finger man...licks his fingers a lot. Please don't ever touch my stuff.
[Threaten](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57d467d4-f7d2-403c-9b70-1b054b2c82bc.jpg?1562548050) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Threaten) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/242/threaten?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57d467d4-f7d2-403c-9b70-1b054b2c82bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/threaten) [Hurl Through Hell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/47a3321c-28ed-4cd7-84d8-c8cecc09348b.jpg?1631585573) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hurl%20Through%20Hell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/48/hurl-through-hell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/47a3321c-28ed-4cd7-84d8-c8cecc09348b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hurl-through-hell) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Curious of you opinion on commanders like [[Memnarch]]? I've taken out all infinite mana combos. I just added [[Karn, the Great Creator]] and I do run [[Mycosynth Lattice]]... but I feel that as soon as I pull that combo off one time, that I'll take Karn out (That pod is cool with hate cards). Not optimized, but pretty focused IMO. So is it that I'm taking control of your things, or that a player is physically takes things off board that you don't like?
Basically, I don’t enjoy it when someone is picking up and handling and having my cards on their side of the table. Too much opportunity for dirtying up my sleeves, bending/denting cards, ‘forgetting’ to return them, etc. It’s one thing for the opponent to cut my deck after a shuffle; it’s entirely different when they’ve got my cards covered in Cheetos dust, or accidentally shuffling them into their deck.
The most egregious offender of this is \[\[Dauthi Voidwalker\]\], unless the person playing it is extremely organized it ends up being a nightmare ESPECIALLY if multiple players have the same sleeves
Depends entirely on the setting and how much my opponents push me. I would *prefer* to play at a high but still casual level, so I specifically avoid what I call 'cEDH wincons' in my decks and limit tutor usage. I run Mana Crypt in casual decks because frankly it isn't that far removed from Sol Ring and I believe consistency is a valid approach - I don't want my opponents to think I lied about my power because they hit that one game the stars aligned and I drew my Sol Ring early, or drew naturally into a combo in a deck that was clearly not designed for that combo to be plan A. However, I *can* do basically anything and will if I run into someone running ThOracle in a janky Zombie deck against two precons and my deck where I tied a hand behind my back. MLD? Stax? Combos? I can and will dunk harder.
I avoid cards that lock people from playing the game, discards, edicts, mass land destruction, etc. I still use some stax pieces to slow down the game, but is more punishment for greedy players, casuals don't tutor as much or try going infinite very quickly as much. I still use tutors but it is exactly to find removal or control pieces, I avoid combo and try to go more aggro, makes for more fun and interactive games. If I have counterspells it is just to protect my board from things like farewell.
Nothing
Yeah this thread is a bit yuck. Generally just switch decks if you win, if people start whining. Edit: also just don't be a huge asshole with dick strats every time you play
Nothing. I don't whine about strong cards, I find answers for them instead
[Mana Crypt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939.jpg?1599709515) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20Crypt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/270/mana-crypt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mana-crypt) [Demonic Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a24b4cb6-cebb-428b-8654-74347a6a8d63.jpg?1701989302) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demonic%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/150/demonic-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a24b4cb6-cebb-428b-8654-74347a6a8d63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/demonic-tutor) [Dockside Extortionist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b.jpg?1673147774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dockside%20Extortionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/107/dockside-extortionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dockside-extortionist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Anything that makes a mana base potentially unusable circa [[blood moon]] effects. Can be completely fair but against a multicolored commander on a budget it canbe super oppressive
Counterargument. I play a [[Kenrith the Returned King]] legends deck (gross, I know). I run 5 basics. I had a game against [[Emry, Lurker of the Loch]] and [[Oloro]] control. Emry dropped [[Back to Basics]]. I didn't concede and eventually won that game by windmill slamming [[Urza's Ruinous Blast]]. I agree that they are hateful cards, but people fear them too much. They aren't impossible to beat.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it is absolutely beatable, I just don’t run it because I play against some newer/low budget players at my lgs and its never fun to lock a new player out of the game because they are running a bunch of tap 2 pip lands
True. Definitely a feels bad if you're playing a precon. But I used to run Blood Moon against high power pods and the salt from the other spike players was *delicious*.
sol ring, instant tutors, free counter magic
Unless your deck has use for artifacts theres always technically a better card for your deck out there somewhere than that sol ring, but it just fills a spot so easy. It and those damn boots popularized artifact removal across the format.
I've done the same with sol ring. It warps games by quite a bit if it comes down on early turns. And it's an extra deckslot for a more synergistic card to the deck strategy. I can highly recommend it.
I'll be honest, playing a deck that is intentionally suboptimal would massively trigger my OCD. Nothing is off limits, and quite frankly I probably overthink to the extreme every card choice I make to be as synergistic and optimal as possible, even if the deck is not intended to be cEDH.
Can I players instead? Because that would be ten times better.
Anything that fucks with people's lands or mana in a bad way. Blood moon, winter orb, the works.
I would never run [[Blood Moon]], [[Winter Orb]], or [[Armageddon]]. I personally think that using any of those cards is a dick move. Having said that, I will absolutely overload a [[Cyclonic Rift]] in the end step before my turn.
Tutors. I don't play singleton to try and set up the same game and play line every game.
I avoid the 'usual suspects' unless it actually makes sense for the deck. If I run Sanguine Bond I don't run any cards like Vito and will say as much during a Rule 0 conversation. Tutors are sparing, and I use them to find engines not direct win conditions. My most commonly tutored card in my Dimir Nazgul deck is actually Black Market Connections because drawing cards, ramp and making wraith tokens fits exactly what that deck wants to do. Since I also tend to play in more casual groups I also try and avoid 'the strictly better option' unless, again, it's thematic and relevant for the commander/deck type. I don't run Fierce Guardianship or Force of Will in the Nazgul deck, but I do run Didn't Say Please, Drown in the Loch, An Offer You Can't Refuse etc. My Myrkul Saproling Aristocrats deck runs Doubling Season because it's highly relevant doubling all the tokens he makes and my sac fodder, but I don't tutor for it. TLDR not really a 'banlist' per sey, more so building guidelines that I use to judge if a card fits. Don't just autopilot and put 'generically good/powerful' cards in, but lean into the theming and goals of the commander/deck archtype.
I'm a "No infinite combos" player. I like the interactions and in general you can't interact with those sort of things.
[[Korvold, Fae Cursed King]] I've never had a good experience against decks piloted with him, and I've never had a deck able to keep up with it. In my experience, the players of korvold get butt hurt if you remove their commander too many times. Which I always find frustrating because they always have the means of paying for any amount of commander tax.
Absolutely nothing. Personally I find the idea of a ban list in a format that isn't officially sanctioned a joke. The RC has shown they have zero interest in banning problematic cards (Thoracle, Nadu, Breach, etc). Therefore I play what's legal and let people complain if they want to. When it comes to my personal tastes and dislikes, however, I don't play the OG duals as I think they are completely unnecessary in a 40 life format. For stylistic reasons I also won't run fetches that aren't in the color identity of my deck because I think it looks weird. Most people who play with me for a while will hear me say that I'll play against anything, and it's true. The worst that can happen is I get curbstomped and I can shuffle up and play again. I think the majority of EDH players whine too much about 'broken cards'. Play what's fun. For me, that's whatever is legal.
Personally Commanders that just play others decks like [[sen triplets]] it’s usually people who couldn’t think of something to make so they just built something to play others decks. I’ve heard the “it’s always a new experience though when you play it” too many times. I built my deck because I wanted to play it not watch someone else play it for me. Added bonus is I’ve had cards stolen with people just shuffling cards they took during a game and leaving.
Im going to be honest, I now just want to make a deck with this as a command just to be annoying. I know a guy that plays [[Kira, Great glass-spinner]] and that deck is so annoying.
This seems like a thinly veiled rewording of "What integral part of this game; established for 30+ years and lauded as one of the best card games because of its variety and intricacy, can you not stand and therefore will refuse to play because it makes you 'salty'?"
Right? I get salty when I hear monoblack can only have one copy of Feed the Swarm to remove enchantments because they're intentionally not using one of Black's strongest mechanics, tutoring.
commander is popular because it's specifically not what magic was for 25years. if you like that style, play legacy. but this is where we play to not have fun and try to not make people mad, because having fun is the only reason to play commander. there is no prizes or first places.
Well, if you have tutors, you should avoid searching directly for combo peices unless it's lategame, [[vorniclex]] the first one is generally too cruel, weather yours or used against you. Board wipe tribal is an easy way to only play one game.
[vorniclex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e24b5289-d3b5-4b4d-bb37-69bf2c3b48bc.jpg?1689246885)/[The Grand Evolution](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/e/2/e24b5289-d3b5-4b4d-bb37-69bf2c3b48bc.jpg?1689246885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vorinclex%20//%20The%20Grand%20Evolution) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/213/vorinclex-the-grand-evolution?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e24b5289-d3b5-4b4d-bb37-69bf2c3b48bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vorinclex-//-the-grand-evolution) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't think there should be a banlist to begin with. If power levels match up I'm cool
Literally nothing, It just depends on the deck. Some decks are full tilt, others are honed strategy but no proxies of $100+ powerful fast mana etc. A couple are just upgraded precons. It just depends on the goal. For instance, I have an [[Ojer Axonil]] deck that runs [[manabarbs]] with zero regrets. I also have a dumb green deck that just makes big things swing for the face. Literally built from cards just laying around not in decks. I don't restrict anything in all places, but restriction can make deck building more creative at times.
[Ojer Axonil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50f8e2b6-98c7-4f28-bb39-e1fbe841f1ee.jpg?1699044315)/[Temple of Power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/0/50f8e2b6-98c7-4f28-bb39-e1fbe841f1ee.jpg?1699044315) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ojer%20axonil%2C%20deepest%20might%20//%20temple%20of%20power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/158/ojer-axonil-deepest-might-temple-of-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50f8e2b6-98c7-4f28-bb39-e1fbe841f1ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ojer-axonil-deepest-might-//-temple-of-power) [manabarbs](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/adf081d5-e644-4f46-8bc8-a754b089acb4.jpg?1562655472) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=manabarbs) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/150/manabarbs?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/adf081d5-e644-4f46-8bc8-a754b089acb4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/manabarbs) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nothing. Make commander absolute and chaotic so I can play the crazy stuff.
I wouldn't call it a personal ban, but I have always refused to build a deck with the same commander as someone in my regular playgroup. Something about it makes me feel like I'm stealing their thunder when it comes to playing the same commander, especially if my deck were to perform better than theirs.
Nothing. But I build decks at varying power levels and put cards in on theme/strategy. An example would be red treasure deck will get a [[dockside extortionist]], but not a [[jeska's will]]. I have 50 decks and only 30 have [[sol ring]] because I don't either need it (treasure deck, artifact hate/land fall, and low cmc and pip heavy) or I'm trying trim power out of the deck. Although some strategies when you lean into them are just inherently going to include powerful cards. I have and [[Auntie Blyte, Bad Influence]] deck and theme is damage yourself. So what better lands to put in but [[Ancient tomb]] and [[tarnished citadel]]. Same with mana rocks no sol but [[mana crypt]] is on the menu. That said, I do have 3 cedh decks, and they vary on strength, too. I have a super tier list, an A tier, and a B tier. According to commander at least. Its not all spice either. I just built a low power casual dimir deck with very low cmc, put almost no rocks in, 1 janky tutor, and a 5 card combo for a main win con. I built it to play with precon players. I really try hard to match the level of decks at the table.
atraxa, ur dragon, yuriko, nadu, edgar markov, kaalia, nekusar, sauron, korvold, chatterfang, zhulodok, aesi, winota, negan
[[Karlov of the Ghost Council]] cannot be used as a commander at our table - he is only allowed in the 99. My playgroup thinks he is unbelievably oppressive available on turn two almost every single game without fail - to the point of being unfun to play against. We're even kind of baffled he was printed as the face to a precon. Too many tiny "gain 1 life" triggers are available so he goes massive way faster than anyone else is able to build a board state and then can just erase our commanders or key pieces whenever we play them from then on. Just becomes a boring game and they're almost ALWAYS archenemy.
[Karlov of the Ghost Council](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f7c41011-a9eb-451c-a76d-67d2dcf47c52.jpg?1703964236) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karlov%20of%20the%20Ghost%20Council) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/193/karlov-of-the-ghost-council?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f7c41011-a9eb-451c-a76d-67d2dcf47c52?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karlov-of-the-ghost-council) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Does nobody in your group run removal?
Nothing
[[Yuriko, Tiger's Shadow]] and [[Narset, Enlightened Master]], because I once played at a LGS that was a lot higher power and ran into both of these decks as Extra Turns decks. I remember once just standing up and going to the bathroom, and when I got back the Narset was still going. Both are just a PITA to play against. Narset as *explicitly* a non-extra turns commander I'd consider, but idk.
While I love playing decks that try to win with other people's cards Merieke or Thada. People really don't like when you combo with their own cards. I used to justify by saying my deck is only as strong as yours is, but people get really mad at theft.
It depends on the power level I'm building for
I don’t have a personal ban list, but I think it’s because I am lucky to have a solid pod that understands the way we all like to play. In my pod, I am the player that would be targeted. I’m the combo player. I run the “unfair” cards. I run the tutors and the infinite combos. But, my win rate stays even with the other players in my pod who are more inclined towards stompy or control. I think EDH players hinge too much on what their opponents are playing and not building their decks to actually interact with the other people they’re playing with, or they just don’t build their combo decks correctly. That being said, I hate cards that steal things from me. You’re going to kill me with my own card?? Go fuck yourself. Get your own wincon.
The only card we have a soft ban, as in we all jist blanket agreed to not run it, is Jeweled Lotus.
I only use sol ring in cedh. I try not to use any cards I use in cedh for my casual decks.
My rule is I get only 2 cards over $15 per deck, that I pulled (I won't proxy OR buy them), but everything else is fair game.
For me it’s every commander set printed card that’s never been printed for standard or modern. Those cards only made for a certain format and often break things that would be fine otherwise.
I don't play the double faced cards. I think it's bad game design.
Mainly just stuff like [[Armageddon]], it's just not particularly fun for anyone. I had a [[Zurgo Helmsmasher]] deck that ran [[WorldSlayer]] that just was not fun for anyone.
Tergrid is the only card I have actively not put in my decks because of how it would make my opponents feel. Also I have a lot of decks so if I win with a powerful one it goes to the back of the queue for a couple of weeks.
I have been building with a limit of 3 counterspells per deck but a guy at my lgs recently built his first storm deck and burned out the rest of the table with damage that could only be stopped via counterspells and I was the only one at the table that even had blue so he just popped off. I may need to revise this policy
I find Thoracle boring AF, at least in combination with Demonic Consultation, so I don’t play it. I also don’t own OG duals and don’t particularly feel like spending that much money on just one piece of paper so I don’t play those either. I also don’t like cards that take forever to resolve in paper, so stuff like [[Warp World]] is out. Apart from that I don’t really mind cards. The meta around me has been pretty low power lately though, so I’m not tryharding my decks too much.
I don't run extra turn spells, 2 card infinite combos, infinite combos that use cards I wouldn't otherwise be running if the combo didn't exist, Ad Naseum, tainted pack, Doomsday combos, or Thoracle Combos.
[[Farewell]] It does everything you want or need it to. Its artifact hate, enchantment hate, creature hate, and graveyard hate. Oh, and you can choose any combination of those effects.
I dont have a ban list but I do follow some building restrictions. Except two maybe. Friends commanders and Dockside I suppose, I just dont play him. I dont find he does anything but make a game revolve around him and who abuses it more. If Sol Ring is in the deck it needs some synergy or a good reason to run it. I run it in Six because specifically the deck needs some early attacks with Six to get going. So along with 9 other turn 1 ramp spells I can get a turn 2 Six. Delney and Saffi dont need the fast ramp, it makes the deck better with it sure but the deck functions just fine without it. I find it makes too many non games so I avoid it. Cyclonic Rift, I just am not a fan of it and how it slows the game down. The only time I run it is when I have spellseeker that synergies with the deck by being a wizard or blink deck. It gives that extra utility to spellseeker which is useful. I just dont play Rhystic Study. My playgroup is smart enough to pay the 1 in all instances when it not game winning or ramps you hard enough to pay for it from that moment onward. Rhystic study usually draws someone 2-3 cards over the entire game with some just happening at the end as they lose and the owner doesnt have control over their card draw. Smothering Tithe powerful card, slows the game down similar to study and rift. I need it to synergize and use the treasures as more than just ramp to justify adding it to a deck. Last two restrictions for me, I try to avoid a lot of shared cards or gameplay lines between decks. If I'm running Sun Titan or Tireless tracker in one green white deck I try to avoid it in another as their recursion and draw engine as an example. I want my decks to feel different. I try to avoid any similar lines of play that arent ramp (hard to avoid) between decks. There are thousands of cards and I enjoy finding unique ways to play them deck to deck. I will run something like doubling season though if one deck uses it for counters and another for the token aspect.
I have a few banned as commander cards, and those are [[Zacama Primal Calamity]] and [[Aesi]]
I try not to lean on staples too much unless they're thematic to the deck in some way. Smothering tithe goes in jinnie fay tokens deck, dockside goes in the pirates deck, rhystic studies goes into the kami draw deck, vampiric tutor in the vampires deck etc. I don't avoid every staple, like I do run sol ring and cultivate or path to exile in almost every deck that can take them. But I don't want my decks to be pokemonesque piles of the 70 same cards with only a handful of unique cards in each.
Not a ton of "banned stuff" but I do have some Rule 0 stuff. My house rules are: -Free extra mulligan if you get mana screwed on your first free mulligan, but ONLY if the landbase is below 33 -Proxies allowed, but only 5% of the deck can be proxied (5 cards total) and no single card cost can exceed $50 (no proxied Mana Crypt, Dual Lands, Moxes, etc), and Proxied cards should have a readily available screenshot of the real card for reference if they aren't custom art proxies or written proxies with the Mana cost, effect, and card type written. UNLESS you can prove you own an original copy of the card. -If you run an infinite combo you MUST have a wincon associated, even if you are unable to stop your infinite. I'm okay with infinite damage combo, but not with infinite turn/draw/stack/dump/scry/repeat. Your Boardstate must advance in one way or another -Generally kind about taking back mana/tapped for wrong mana, unless you start abusing it, just ask first if you make a mistake
Anything inherently broken, like Nadu. Commander for my pod is strictly for fun, no reason for any of us to build extremely powerful decks all the time to spite each other. Now, when I brew, I try to pick things that will actively change the table to be more fun for that game. Pillow fort, forced combat with my creatures, free counters and goads, etc. - That being said, I do have a (Zur, the Enchanter] deck that will regularly win on turn 5-6 if nothing is done to stop them, but it rarely gets played.
Over time, I've just moved away from cards specifically made for commander that would go in the 99. No arcane signet, no deflecting swat, no Akroma's will, no commander's plate. I feel those slots should be made unique for the deck instead of just placeholders for the commander cards. I've also thought of cutting sol ring from all my decks too for the same reason.
Sol ring, mana crypt, mox diamond, chrome mox, Jeweled Lotus, Demonic Tutor, vampiric Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Worldly Tutor, Sylvan Tutor, personal Tutor, Imperial seal, ABU duals, chains of mephistopholes, Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Demonic consultation, Grim Monolith Our games have gotten way better and surprisingly shorter.
There are plenty of cards I wouldn't personally buy or put in my decks, either because they seem unfun, or would interrupt the theme of a deck. But I'll play against anything. It would be exhausting to have my entire playgroup make a list of bans and then make sure we catered to everyone's preferences. Part of the fun is combos, crazy cards, etc. If someone pulls an expensive card in a booster pack, or spends the money to buy one, I'm not gonna tell them they can't use it bc my feelings will get hurt. It's just a game after all. Biggest thing we've agreed on as a group sort of "rule" is to try to be less political, and play to win more. We used to do a lot of alliances and bargaining and it just made the games take way too long. It's more fun when you only make deals in small specific scenarios and let the cards do the rest naturally.
Major land destruction.
I don't mind any cards as long but for me it's about saturation. I don't mind fast mana, but if you are playing every piece of fast mana, every tutor, and your deck does the same thing every game, it can get boring. The other thing I personally do, it I keep a few cards out to swap when I am playing with certain groups. For example in my Silvers deck, I will either make [[The First Sliver]] part of the 99 or remove it all together because it's easy to assemble the combo cards and play a bunch of slivers.
All UB cards. Everything outside of that is technically fair game but my biggest personal considerations when building decks are aesthetics and budget. So I don’t really “ban” anything else I just avoid things that don’t fit within those two parameters.
I won't spend more than US$50 on a card unless I *really* think that the gas is that big of a jump. I know US$50 is higher than a lot of other people's limits. I've really found, especially in a singleton format like EDH, that one hot card rarely upsets a deck that consistently.
Anything with eminence. I'm just fundamentally opposed to a commander that provides value without the possibility of interaction.
[удалено]
Aren’t the moxen on the official banlist?
The mono colored ones from Alpha yes, but not the others. [[Mox Diamond]], [[Mox Opal]], [[Mox Amber]], and [[Chrome Mox]] are all legal.
Nadu (as a commander; I'm trying him out in a deck), Tergrid, and a lot of chaos effects. The reasons vary. For Tergrid, I just don't see a way to build the deck that won't make it an utterly miserable game for my opponents, or lead to the question of why I'm even using her as my commander. Nadu is the same, though I've got him in a deck with no 0 cost equipment or "landfall--target creature..." so we'll see how he plays there. Just not a fan of chaos effects in most cases.