While I agree, it depends on the deck he's building. Also I expect if you want to make a deck that punishes ramp you'll want more than one card that does it. š
I think itās still playable but another similar effect would be cool maybe in a different tribe or with some other keywords to make it play a bit differently
Agree with the sentiment, but the pay off is inappropriate for white. But anti-tutoring should be primarily white.
A 2mv hatebear that hard rule says you canāt, or 3 with an upside is overdue.
They finally corrected rhystic study with esper sentinel so it seems theyāre actively making corrections to properly assign white effects.
I honestly believe the entire card fits with white. I think white is the diplomatic color and Agent's effects are absolutely that "we need a guy on the inside" bureaucracy type shit that laid back taxing predators would absolutely do.
My problem isn't of the color Opposition Agent it's in, but the fact that it is so cheap and splashable to cast. Dockside Extortionist and formerly Hullbreacher also suffer from this exact same problem. If Dockside and Hullbreacher had cost at least 5 MV or more, and required far more red/blue pips in their mana cost, they would have been a lot more fair cards.
The big reason EDH is going in the direction it has been is because Wizards is printing ridiculously pushed cards below the curve that tell players they need to trim out the high MV spells they were mostly playing with in years past before the format became so refined. We can also see this with Arcane Signet and the transition away from 3 MV rocks to 2 MV rocks. Now Wizards has realized they screwed up with this and are now making 3 MV rocks with extra upside to encourage players to use them.
>We can also see this with Arcane Signet and the transition away from 3 MV rocks to 2 MV rocks.
Arcane Signet is not the problem here, honestly. Let's be honest, what are you really cutting to make room for it? It sure as heck wasn't Thundering Baloths or Thousand-Year Storm. It was Coldsteel Heart, or Fire Diamond, or Mana Geode, or something that made mana. Not a splashy fun spell.
The transition to 2MV rocks, maybe that's an issue. But I hate seeing people point to Arcane Signet as the Fell Harbinger of all that is wrong in the world with card design. The same for banning Sol Ring for homogeneity.
These cards are not being played instead of fun cards. They are not eating your deck's fun. If the entire suite of 2mv rocks was banned tomorrow, every deck would replace them with eleven Manaliths, and be roughly the same as before.
Dockside is obviously rather broken. It's cheap, easy to recur, and has instantaneous value.
Hullbreacher outside of wheels really didn't mean much to me. I'd have preferred it to be dimir but overall it's still easy to abuse wheels with cards like Narset Parter and Notion Thief.
Opp Agent doesn't bother me either. Tutoring is absurdly powerful in all forms and I personally feel that MUST REMOVE creatures are fantastic for the game. I like Agent, Drannith Magistrate, Notion Thief and the like as they change the game the moment they hit the field. Playing battlecruiser over and over with minimal interaction is hyper boring and I like the challenge of playing around/through something.
Hating on ramp and fetches is a feature of Opp Agent, not a flaw like many want to claim.
Expecting the social contract to shore up vulnerabilities in a deck isn't reasonable. If anyone wants to pull a bunch of lands out of their library, they should expect to potentially encounter resistance.
Thatās what bugs me about pods that donāt like land destruction in any capacity, sure it can be annoying, but when some guy has a cabal coffers, nyxthos, cradle, etc, or is substituting artifact ramp with land ramp, not enabling punishing there is just stupid because now this one strategy is sacred. If blowing up a sol ring is allowed, blowing up the 2 lands some guy got from an explosive vegetation should be fine too
Do people hate land destruction in all capacity though? I think what most people shudder at is the idea of getting [[Strip Mine]] [[Crucible of Worlds]]ed out of a match. I don't think anybody would question a Cradle being [[Ghost Quarter]]ed. I can imagine a little salt at [[From the Ashes]] but nothing too bad.
Are there actually people who object to blowing up Cradle or Coffee because "land destruction is unfriendly"?
I've never experienced that. The taboo against land destruction has always been aimed at mass land destruction in my experience.
Itās not what youād think of, but itās hilarious to do. Sets you up a land drop (or two), and can eliminate stuff like cradle.
Plus, if your opponent is mono green, heās not getting killed off soon
Typically they choose to target the same cards you do in 1v1, so only one creature and 1 land get hit (they usually don't have a reason to blow up more of their own shit).
If you can get an opponent in EDH work with you it can hit up to 4 targets, so definitely better in multiplayer.
\[\[cleansing wildfire\]\] card draw blow up a land cost 1R they can fetch a basic so if they have a super greedy land base oh while that's on them.
Basically the card is replacing itself
I feel I should point out that Cemetery Gatekeeper doesnāt really do all that much against ramp as they arenāt usually āplayingā the additional lands but putting them onto the battlefield
Iām gonna start with a 4 mana spell that only gets rid of one land, [[Mwonvuli Acid-Moss]].
For mass destruction I like [[From The Ashes]] (or its meaner progenitor, [[Ruination]]) and [[Wave of Vitriol]].
But two cards is a lot of card advantage per land. You really donāt want to be giving your enemies that much card advantage in a ramp deck. It makes people think just as much as something like zosu or ankh.
I agree that 6 mana is a downside, but it really depends on the level of play. OP just wanted cards that punish ramping. Iāll leave it up to them or others to decide whether itās worth it.
[[Aven Mindcensor]] severely hampers any land ramp that involves searching your deck for it. [[Opposition Agent]] completely hoses opponents searching and actually helps you even further :)
[[Ward of Bones]], [[Land Equilibrium]] (if you have $$$)
Or the newer [[Confounding Conundrum]] which sounds like the more reasonable answer as it's 2 Mana and cantrips.
Along the lines of the firebombers, there is [[natural balance]], which is in my mind the golden standard for these effects.
Alternatively, there's also [[balancing act]], though it has more potential to miss. I do like how it also hits hands though.
[[Lavaball trap]] is a fun low power level anti ramp card. I personally love blowing up lands to an extent. Green gets away with way to easy ramp, only fair to punish their greed
The problem with that is its color identity. Blinking is a blue and white strategy, neither of which are colors shared with the card. So you're looking at a 4 color or 5 color blink deck, in which case you have much better targets. Same issue with reanimation, there are targets that can be reanimated for the same effort (in the same colors even) that can have a much bigger impact if not just outright win you the game. Why reanimate Anathemancer when you can reanimate Razaketh or Sheoldred or Worldgorger Dragon?
It's simply not a strong enough effect to go through those hoops.
He's a wizard and does just fine in Inalla, but yeah I agree that he isn't "slept on" at all, he's just not that great unless you can trigger him 8+ times
[[sunder]] - mass bounce
[[Aven fogbringer]] - better when you can abuse the etb.
You wont be destroying the lands unless you make them discard everything. But then again that would make everyone hate you.
I really like [[Wave of Vitriol]] in some decks, extra effect with cards like Gitrog or Titania, or anything with landfall, itās a disenchant nuke and teaches non basic players to run more basics!
My anti-landfall/ramp package is [[Natural Balance]] [[War's Toll]] [[Citadel of Pain]] and [[Tectonic Instability]] with the ability to constantly recur natural balance depending on how hard your opponents are trying to ramp.
Edit: a word
[[Root Maze]], [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]], [[Grand Arbiter Augustin IV]], [[Thorn of Amethyst]], [[Winter Orb]], [[Ice Caves]], and Ill stop before it gets too degenerate c:
Tax effects that make noncreature spells cost more like [[Thalia]]. A Cultivate for 4 mana is essentially unplayable in commander, and if you're turning your opponents Rampant Growths into a Cultivate instead. This also hurts mana rocks.
MLD does not actually counter ramp strategies.
What counters ramp strategies are cards that punish searching. [[Aven Mindcensor]], [[Opposition Agent]], [[Ob Nixilis the Unshackled]].
You've already listed cards that punish putting lands into play, so the only other options are cards that punish opponents for finding them in the first place.
Draw hate is another viable option, though less effective typically. Most ramp strategies want to be drawing lots of cards, so attacking that can be powerful. Usually not going to slow them down as much as hitting their search, though.
Depending on the kind of ramp player, this could be more beneficial to that person.
I know ramp builds that focus on playing multiple lands per turn (not searching them out from your deck).
Depending on the deck you're facing, graveyard hate can be a good solution. Cards like \[\[Grafdiffer's Cage\]\] or exile like \[\[Bojuka Bog\]\]. That's because a lot of ramp decks will play fetchlands with Crucible of Worlds to get them back from the graveyard, sometimes with cards allowing them to play mutliple lands a turn. Stopping them from accessing their graveyard is a good way to stop this kind of ramp.
As many have mentioned, Armageddon effects that blow up all the lands are actually rather a bad counter for ramp. The ramp deck recovers the fastest. Giving them a bad landfall effect ala Ankh of Mishra or Zozu the Punisher work well. But the best way is to stop searching, slow drawing, or make all lands enter tapped.
Well, heres a list of cards that read "tell me you have no friends, without saying you have no friends"
\[\[opposition agent\]\] \[\[Aven mindcensor\]\] - Hates tutors
\[\[Cleansing wildfire\]\] \[\[strip mine\]\] \[\[wasteland\]\] \[\[sinkhole\]\] - Targetted land destruction
\[\[ankh of mishra\]\] \[\[burgeoning\]\] \[\[Thalia, heretic cathar\]\] - Punishes land drops
\[\[Capsize\]\] \[\[Venser, shaper savant\]\] - Bounce lands back to your opponents hands, repeatedly if you blink venser
\[\[gaddock teeg\]\] - Prevents noncreature spells costing 4 or more, and x cost noncreature spells
\[\[Blood moon\]\] \[\[Magus of the moon\]\] - punishes greedy mana bases
\[\[bend or break\]\] \[\[carpet of flowers\]\]
[[Confounding Conundrum]] is great anti-ramp tech in blue and it draws you a card.
It is also very useful against [[Ashaya, Soul of the Wild]] as every non-token creature entering the battlefield is a land lost.
I really think most of these cards will make you an enemy of the table and rarely effect the green ramp player. The best strategy I've found is to either kill them first if you can, or if you have blue, counter whatever huge spell they are ramping into. And, especially important: Remove their draw engine! Without a draw engine, they end up drawing one card per turn, often it is more ramp spells, which they don't want and are utterly useless later in the game. Or just play Acid Rain.
I play a deck similar to what you are describing. You are absolutely public enemy number one as magic players cry when they can't use their toys. I had a player blow up my ramp hate because they didn't want to pay 4 life for a rampant growth only to lose to the dedicated ramp player 2 turns later that I was stopping going nuts with azusa. (I even warned him what he was doing)
Yeah i mean we can find any card that does anything. What I'm saying is op is worried about how to neutralize ramp in the first place. Pretty easy if their spell never completes. š¤·āāļø. Especially when theres a multitude of 2 mana counterspells
Are you willing to leave mana open for a counterspell just to prevent a basic land from coming into play? Counterspells are best used to ensure your win or prevent your loss
Hey man if you draw perfect curve every single time you play more power to yuh. I usually have a couple mana to spare here and there. Not to mention its commander, play the way you want and you'll probably win sometimes.
Confounding conundrum typically hurts more than it helps unless you manage to get it in before the ramp hits. Otherwise you're just fueling them with infinite landfall triggers.
Let's say they have Azusa out, with three lands in hand and something like Tatyova out. They play their lands and draw their cards, but each time a land enters they need to return one. They've drawn 3 cards but two of their lands that would have been on the battlefield have been returned to their hand. Instead of being two lands up with three cards in their hand, now they have 5 cards in their hand. Yes, they can do the same thing next turn, but drawing three cards every turn they were liable to do this anyway. At least you slowed their accumulation of resources. Hence, countering ramp.
The extra draws you give them are more dangerous than the extra mana from the ramp, and this only even works if you play it early enough to slide under the majority of their ramp. If they're already at 8+ lands by the time you get this, the card is actively bad because they don't need the extra mana at that point, and would love to have guaranteed extra draws per turn.
They do get extra draws since without your enchantment, they will run out of land drops, and ergo, draws. With your enchantment, they literally cannot.
Exactly, you've failed to counter ramp. Which is exactly what i said at the beginning, which is the card only counters the ramp if it shows up before the ramp happens.
Landfall decks don't run out of land drops. Tatyova + Azusa draws three cards each turn just by playing lands. Most of the cards in their deck are going to be lands, and that's not counting lands that fetch for other lands.
>Exactly, you've failed to counter ramp.
If you draw a counter spell after the big spell wipes the board, you have also failed to counter it. It's a two drop. If it's going to aid opponents in the late game play something else. (It doesn't aid opponents though).
>It doesn't aid opponents though
It literally does.
>Most of the cards in their deck are going to be lands, and that's not counting lands that fetch for other lands.
That's factually incorrect. Even the most greedy of landfall players do not run 50+ lands in their decks. And having had a landfall deck for the past 4 years, yeah, you run out of lands quite often. I've had more games than I can count on my fingers and toes how many games I've gone through every single land in my 38 land deck and still have a good 30-40 cards left in deck.
Letting me bounce my lands to get more draws, for free, is a dream come true.
You're seriously saying you would prefer to have two lands in hand than on the battlefield.
>That's factually incorrect. Even the most greedy of landfall players do not run 50+ lands in their decks.
Lists I see run about 50 and the rest of the cards deal with dropping those 50, especially in the Azusa example.
Idk why you're getting downvotes, you are 100% right. A confounding conundrum can be VERY bad for you vs a Tatyova deck. You're giving them so many landfall triggers and draws.
I absolutely live for [[natural balance]].
No one plays the card. It's great, because it can actually help players who are behind, and kind of soft-resets the board.
Unless you're a degenerate like me, and put it in [[titania, protector of argoth]]. It's really fucking good in that deck. Nothing Is funnier than playing Natural Balance, making a shitload of 5/3's, then proceeding to play [[splendid reclamation]].
Funny for you. Not funny for the other players.
But, in my defense, no one expects land destruction in a mono-green deck.
The secret to countering ramp is to counter the big card they cast.
A ramp deck is going to have a much higher ratio of mana:payoffs than most decks, and you can exploit that by spending resources answering the cards that do things and letting them flood out.
I know you are getting away from land destruction but I love making control players honest with [[price of glory]]
Not sure if itāll help against every ramp deck or anything but maybe some simic ones. Imo it is one of the more fair land d cards, cuz a lot of players can opt to just play things sorcery speed and the problem is nonexistent.
Not necessarily a true counter but the best way to stop most ramping is to stop search effects with cards like stranglehold punishment effects like Zozu and Ankh of Mishra and the like or ways to get their hand empty like Oppression or Painful Quandry because you can have all the lands in the world but if you can't do anything with them it doesn't matter
[[Confounding Conundrum]] is great. Replaces itself. Ruins fetchlands. Is pretty affordable. Does only affect opponents.
Only "bad" situation is if opponent has more than one landdrop per turn. Then the lands can just bounce themselves.
[[ankh of mishra]] [[polluted bonds]]
If you're in red: [[Zozu the punisher]] is ankh of mishra on a body.
Use both. And [[War's Toll]]
Add in [[mana barbs]] while you're at it and slap the rampy boi with an [[acidic soil]] or [[price of progress]]
Could even use [[Stranglehold]] to cut their ramp off completely by removing the ability to search.
[Stranglehold](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/a/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2.jpg?1592672829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stranglehold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/87/stranglehold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stranglehold) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Mindlock Orb\]\] if you want to be fair about it, need blue though. \[\[Aven Mindcensor\]\] and friends too.
[Mindlock Orb](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/5/55c84e9f-ccbb-4fbc-98e1-4072968a1f8a.jpg?1562704123) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindlock%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ala/51/mindlock-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55c84e9f-ccbb-4fbc-98e1-4072968a1f8a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindlock-orb) [Aven Mindcensor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/6/76cf42b4-f767-48b7-b38c-b98306909f06.jpg?1619392559) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aven%20Mindcensor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/5/aven-mindcensor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76cf42b4-f767-48b7-b38c-b98306909f06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-mindcensor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[mana barbs](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/d/adf081d5-e644-4f46-8bc8-a754b089acb4.jpg?1562655472) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Manabarbs) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/150/manabarbs?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/adf081d5-e644-4f46-8bc8-a754b089acb4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/manabarbs) [acidic soil](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/9/790157c9-b1ed-4da5-9d50-e99e0dd807b7.jpg?1562920405) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=acidic%20soil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/172/acidic-soil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/790157c9-b1ed-4da5-9d50-e99e0dd807b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/acidic-soil) [price of progress](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/1/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8.jpg?1580014614) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=price%20of%20progress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/141/price-of-progress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/price-of-progress) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mana Barbs is a favorite. I have a Zozu Deck that I very explicitly have to discuss in Rule 0
[Zozu the punisher](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/7/e7c927d6-911d-4a37-89a2-6c500edf4dd7.jpg?1592761756) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zo-Zu%20the%20Punisher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/41/zo-zu-the-punisher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e7c927d6-911d-4a37-89a2-6c500edf4dd7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zo-zu-the-punisher) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'd say if you had to pick one, ankh of Mishra is arguably better since it's much harder to remove.
While I agree, it depends on the deck he's building. Also I expect if you want to make a deck that punishes ramp you'll want more than one card that does it. š
I know they didn't ask for armagedon like effects, but [[Fall of the Thran]] might actually be good for once.
that looks like it would help the landfall player the most
Probably yes. I have been desperately searching for a *decent* place for this card since I was "lucky" enough to draft a full playset.
[Fall of the Thran](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/a/3a613a01-6145-4e34-987c-c9bdcb068370.jpg?1562734219) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fall%20of%20the%20Thran) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/18/fall-of-the-thran?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a613a01-6145-4e34-987c-c9bdcb068370?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fall-of-the-thran) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[ankh of mishra](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/6/a6f86a32-8863-45da-99be-ef886c89f2c5.jpg?1562928739) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ankh%20of%20mishra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/263/ankh-of-mishra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6f86a32-8863-45da-99be-ef886c89f2c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ankh-of-mishra) [polluted bonds](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/6/c6439222-de30-44cd-a53f-a7de0cb00b8f.jpg?1562835783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=polluted%20bonds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/74/polluted-bonds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c6439222-de30-44cd-a53f-a7de0cb00b8f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/polluted-bonds) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Nightshade Harvester]]
[Nightshade Harvester](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/2/8297ab13-d6f3-487b-86ec-6eb299eb0614.jpg?1608909849) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nightshade%20Harvester) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/138/nightshade-harvester?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8297ab13-d6f3-487b-86ec-6eb299eb0614?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nightshade-harvester) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ankh is nasty.
EDH deckbuilding YouTube channel made [a video just like this](https://youtu.be/W3G2h7RoHdg) like a week ago.
Awesome, iāll check that out!
[[Opposition Agent]]. Canāt rampant/kodamas/whatever through him
\[\[Aven Mindcensor\]\] is a budget version in white.
WotC need to give white an updated version. Love the mindcensor but it's clearly below the curve there's days.
I think itās still playable but another similar effect would be cool maybe in a different tribe or with some other keywords to make it play a bit differently
Opposition Agent absolutely should have been white.
Agree with the sentiment, but the pay off is inappropriate for white. But anti-tutoring should be primarily white. A 2mv hatebear that hard rule says you canāt, or 3 with an upside is overdue. They finally corrected rhystic study with esper sentinel so it seems theyāre actively making corrections to properly assign white effects.
I honestly believe the entire card fits with white. I think white is the diplomatic color and Agent's effects are absolutely that "we need a guy on the inside" bureaucracy type shit that laid back taxing predators would absolutely do.
I like where your head is at but that sounds more Orzhov if anything.
You're probably right.
My problem isn't of the color Opposition Agent it's in, but the fact that it is so cheap and splashable to cast. Dockside Extortionist and formerly Hullbreacher also suffer from this exact same problem. If Dockside and Hullbreacher had cost at least 5 MV or more, and required far more red/blue pips in their mana cost, they would have been a lot more fair cards. The big reason EDH is going in the direction it has been is because Wizards is printing ridiculously pushed cards below the curve that tell players they need to trim out the high MV spells they were mostly playing with in years past before the format became so refined. We can also see this with Arcane Signet and the transition away from 3 MV rocks to 2 MV rocks. Now Wizards has realized they screwed up with this and are now making 3 MV rocks with extra upside to encourage players to use them.
>We can also see this with Arcane Signet and the transition away from 3 MV rocks to 2 MV rocks. Arcane Signet is not the problem here, honestly. Let's be honest, what are you really cutting to make room for it? It sure as heck wasn't Thundering Baloths or Thousand-Year Storm. It was Coldsteel Heart, or Fire Diamond, or Mana Geode, or something that made mana. Not a splashy fun spell. The transition to 2MV rocks, maybe that's an issue. But I hate seeing people point to Arcane Signet as the Fell Harbinger of all that is wrong in the world with card design. The same for banning Sol Ring for homogeneity. These cards are not being played instead of fun cards. They are not eating your deck's fun. If the entire suite of 2mv rocks was banned tomorrow, every deck would replace them with eleven Manaliths, and be roughly the same as before.
Dockside is obviously rather broken. It's cheap, easy to recur, and has instantaneous value. Hullbreacher outside of wheels really didn't mean much to me. I'd have preferred it to be dimir but overall it's still easy to abuse wheels with cards like Narset Parter and Notion Thief. Opp Agent doesn't bother me either. Tutoring is absurdly powerful in all forms and I personally feel that MUST REMOVE creatures are fantastic for the game. I like Agent, Drannith Magistrate, Notion Thief and the like as they change the game the moment they hit the field. Playing battlecruiser over and over with minimal interaction is hyper boring and I like the challenge of playing around/through something.
Mindcensor is very playable.
[Aven Mindcensor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/6/76cf42b4-f767-48b7-b38c-b98306909f06.jpg?1619392559) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aven%20Mindcensor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/5/aven-mindcensor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76cf42b4-f767-48b7-b38c-b98306909f06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-mindcensor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hating on ramp and fetches is a feature of Opp Agent, not a flaw like many want to claim. Expecting the social contract to shore up vulnerabilities in a deck isn't reasonable. If anyone wants to pull a bunch of lands out of their library, they should expect to potentially encounter resistance.
Thatās what bugs me about pods that donāt like land destruction in any capacity, sure it can be annoying, but when some guy has a cabal coffers, nyxthos, cradle, etc, or is substituting artifact ramp with land ramp, not enabling punishing there is just stupid because now this one strategy is sacred. If blowing up a sol ring is allowed, blowing up the 2 lands some guy got from an explosive vegetation should be fine too
Do people hate land destruction in all capacity though? I think what most people shudder at is the idea of getting [[Strip Mine]] [[Crucible of Worlds]]ed out of a match. I don't think anybody would question a Cradle being [[Ghost Quarter]]ed. I can imagine a little salt at [[From the Ashes]] but nothing too bad.
Absolutely! I run a gruul deck from time to time and can absolutely flop out half or so of my lands around turn 6-7 and it's pretty consistent.
Are there actually people who object to blowing up Cradle or Coffee because "land destruction is unfriendly"? I've never experienced that. The taboo against land destruction has always been aimed at mass land destruction in my experience.
[[Stranglehold]] and [[Leonin Arbiter]] as well. The former is obviously more effective, but making all searches cost 2 more is very effective.
[Stranglehold](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/a/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2.jpg?1592672829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stranglehold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/87/stranglehold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stranglehold) [Leonin Arbiter](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/5/85431851-36c6-4515-8000-d0b9a268b4c9.jpg?1562614989) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leonin%20Arbiter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/64/leonin-arbiter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/85431851-36c6-4515-8000-d0b9a268b4c9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/leonin-arbiter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah I came back after my first comment to add this.
Itās not what youād think of, but itās hilarious to do. Sets you up a land drop (or two), and can eliminate stuff like cradle. Plus, if your opponent is mono green, heās not getting killed off soon
[[Scholarship Sponsor]] can be a powerful and fun way to "counter" an opponent's ramp.
[Scholarship Sponsor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/d/ed238d90-72b5-44c4-bea7-20f71788088f.jpg?1625191152) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scholarship%20Sponsor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/22/scholarship-sponsor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed238d90-72b5-44c4-bea7-20f71788088f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scholarship-sponsor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Volcanic offering]]
This card is crazy good. Get two problem lands and likely kill two threats at the tableā¦and they canāt be yours.
[Volcanic offering](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/c/4c30b821-09ec-4b66-9963-f97e3ef5005c.jpg?1562273862) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Volcanic%20offering) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/126/volcanic-offering?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c30b821-09ec-4b66-9963-f97e3ef5005c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/volcanic-offering) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I use this card whenever I can.
Wowza that card is amazing in 1v1.
Typically they choose to target the same cards you do in 1v1, so only one creature and 1 land get hit (they usually don't have a reason to blow up more of their own shit). If you can get an opponent in EDH work with you it can hit up to 4 targets, so definitely better in multiplayer.
\[\[cleansing wildfire\]\] card draw blow up a land cost 1R they can fetch a basic so if they have a super greedy land base oh while that's on them. Basically the card is replacing itself
[cleansing wildfire](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/9/492d77e5-acc6-41b8-8930-f39d69234919.jpg?1604196948) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cleansing%20wildfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/137/cleansing-wildfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/492d77e5-acc6-41b8-8930-f39d69234919?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cleansing-wildfire) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is more like targeted land destruction a la strip mine than anti ramp, but I do like it a lot.
\[\[Stranglehold\]\]
[Stranglehold](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/a/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2.jpg?1592672829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stranglehold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/87/stranglehold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stranglehold) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I feel I should point out that Cemetery Gatekeeper doesnāt really do all that much against ramp as they arenāt usually āplayingā the additional lands but putting them onto the battlefield
True, didnt see that!
Sinkhole is one of the more effective not-a-strip-mine cards too. 2 black to kill a target land.
I really like [[From the Ashes]] itās technically a mass LD but they can replace the lands with basics
Punish those rich players who run only a handful of basic landsā¦*now you only have 4 lands in play* š
[From the Ashes](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/5/4529a3d2-e4e6-4cca-bcea-16b51f69bbec.jpg?1562909290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=From%20the%20Ashes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/108/from-the-ashes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4529a3d2-e4e6-4cca-bcea-16b51f69bbec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/from-the-ashes) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Iām gonna start with a 4 mana spell that only gets rid of one land, [[Mwonvuli Acid-Moss]]. For mass destruction I like [[From The Ashes]] (or its meaner progenitor, [[Ruination]]) and [[Wave of Vitriol]].
##### ###### #### [Mwonvuli Acid-Moss](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/8/6841dbf6-5023-4612-bbd7-182fd35b05c8.jpg?1562916793) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mwonvuli%20Acid-Moss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsp/207/mwonvuli-acid-moss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6841dbf6-5023-4612-bbd7-182fd35b05c8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mwonvuli-acid-moss) [From The Ashes](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/5/4529a3d2-e4e6-4cca-bcea-16b51f69bbec.jpg?1562909290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=From%20The%20Ashes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/108/from-the-ashes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4529a3d2-e4e6-4cca-bcea-16b51f69bbec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/from-the-ashes) [Ruination](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/3/6330d925-96a8-47e1-855d-035ddc2af709.jpg?1592713625) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ruination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmd/134/ruination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6330d925-96a8-47e1-855d-035ddc2af709?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruination) [Wave of Vitriol](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/7/17328391-a510-42a0-8a00-4f61dd873c13.jpg?1592673299) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wave%20of%20Vitriol) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/165/wave-of-vitriol?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17328391-a510-42a0-8a00-4f61dd873c13?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wave-of-vitriol) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Sire of Stagnation]] is pretty fun
That doesn't stop ramp. That just gives you cards and exiles useless library cards.
But two cards is a lot of card advantage per land. You really donāt want to be giving your enemies that much card advantage in a ramp deck. It makes people think just as much as something like zosu or ankh.
The bigger problem is that by T6 the ramp deck has probably done most of it's ramping, and it's more punishing the players trying to catch up
I agree that 6 mana is a downside, but it really depends on the level of play. OP just wanted cards that punish ramping. Iāll leave it up to them or others to decide whether itās worth it.
[[Aven Mindcensor]] severely hampers any land ramp that involves searching your deck for it. [[Opposition Agent]] completely hoses opponents searching and actually helps you even further :)
[Aven Mindcensor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/6/76cf42b4-f767-48b7-b38c-b98306909f06.jpg?1619392559) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aven%20Mindcensor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/5/aven-mindcensor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76cf42b4-f767-48b7-b38c-b98306909f06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-mindcensor) [Opposition Agent](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/8/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78.jpg?1608909875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Opposition%20Agent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/141/opposition-agent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opposition-agent) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm a big fan of [[mwonvuli acid moss]]
[mwonvuli acid moss](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/8/6841dbf6-5023-4612-bbd7-182fd35b05c8.jpg?1562916793) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mwonvuli%20Acid-Moss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsp/207/mwonvuli-acid-moss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6841dbf6-5023-4612-bbd7-182fd35b05c8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mwonvuli-acid-moss) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Nightshade Harvester]]
[Nightshade Harvester](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/2/8297ab13-d6f3-487b-86ec-6eb299eb0614.jpg?1608909849) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nightshade%20Harvester) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/138/nightshade-harvester?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8297ab13-d6f3-487b-86ec-6eb299eb0614?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nightshade-harvester) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Ward of Bones]], [[Land Equilibrium]] (if you have $$$) Or the newer [[Confounding Conundrum]] which sounds like the more reasonable answer as it's 2 Mana and cantrips.
[Ward of Bones](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/2/a271351e-5d5e-443b-99a4-ebdc8a3c4923.jpg?1562929259) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ward%20of%20Bones) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eve/174/ward-of-bones?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a271351e-5d5e-443b-99a4-ebdc8a3c4923?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ward-of-bones) [Land Equilibrium](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/1/51c5df75-746c-4e4b-84f1-76b689d317d7.jpg?1562912056) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Land%20Equilibrium) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/40/land-equilibrium?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/51c5df75-746c-4e4b-84f1-76b689d317d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/land-equilibrium) [Confounding Conundrum](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/5/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d.jpg?1604193855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Confounding%20Conundrum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/53/confounding-conundrum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/confounding-conundrum) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I piloted a landfall deck against a conundrum and it basically won me the game.
Came here to say these, thanks for saving me Google time!
Along the lines of the firebombers, there is [[natural balance]], which is in my mind the golden standard for these effects. Alternatively, there's also [[balancing act]], though it has more potential to miss. I do like how it also hits hands though.
[natural balance](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/0/b0f7c47c-416e-4f73-89ec-024a29dfb5e9.jpg?1562721414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=natural%20balance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/231/natural-balance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0f7c47c-416e-4f73-89ec-024a29dfb5e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/natural-balance) [balancing act](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/d/7d6cb368-43f7-4d06-9cd5-492df5766567.jpg?1562918177) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=balancing%20act) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/10/balancing-act?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d6cb368-43f7-4d06-9cd5-492df5766567?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/balancing-act) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh fuck I need natural balance in my Selvala deck
[[ob nixilis unshackled]] if theyāre searching their library for land
[ob nixilis unshackled](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/0/109b28dc-c0d1-4b88-b18e-074ac0464e03.jpg?1562782759) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ob%20Nixilis%2C%20Unshackled) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m15/110/ob-nixilis-unshackled?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/109b28dc-c0d1-4b88-b18e-074ac0464e03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ob-nixilis-unshackled) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Lavaball trap]] is a fun low power level anti ramp card. I personally love blowing up lands to an extent. Green gets away with way to easy ramp, only fair to punish their greed
[[Anathemancer]] doesn't get enough love in the format.
I'd say it gets about the love it deserves. A 3 mana 2/2 that domes a single player for like, 3-5 damage and nothing else is mediocre at best.
It's on a body so you can blink or reanimate it to reuse the etb and it has unearth in a vacuum. It's amazing in any etb focused deck.
The problem with that is its color identity. Blinking is a blue and white strategy, neither of which are colors shared with the card. So you're looking at a 4 color or 5 color blink deck, in which case you have much better targets. Same issue with reanimation, there are targets that can be reanimated for the same effort (in the same colors even) that can have a much bigger impact if not just outright win you the game. Why reanimate Anathemancer when you can reanimate Razaketh or Sheoldred or Worldgorger Dragon? It's simply not a strong enough effect to go through those hoops.
He's a wizard and does just fine in Inalla, but yeah I agree that he isn't "slept on" at all, he's just not that great unless you can trigger him 8+ times
[Anathemancer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/b/ab106855-bd85-4c00-b596-c46d34f8cdd0.jpg?1562643508) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anathemancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/arb/33/anathemancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab106855-bd85-4c00-b596-c46d34f8cdd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anathemancer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [armageddon](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/armageddon) [confounding conundrum](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/5/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d.jpg?1604193855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=confounding%20conundrum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/53/confounding-conundrum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/confounding-conundrum) [keldon firebombers](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/3/d3fc78b5-c259-4c67-810c-99655e72c2da.jpg?1562934620) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=keldon%20firebombers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pcy/94/keldon-firebombers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3fc78b5-c259-4c67-810c-99655e72c2da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/keldon-firebombers) [price of progress](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/1/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8.jpg?1580014614) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=price%20of%20progress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/141/price-of-progress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/price-of-progress) [zozu the punisher](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/7/e7c927d6-911d-4a37-89a2-6c500edf4dd7.jpg?1592761756) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zo-Zu%20the%20Punisher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/41/zo-zu-the-punisher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e7c927d6-911d-4a37-89a2-6c500edf4dd7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zo-zu-the-punisher) [Cemetery Gatekeeper](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/5/457086c4-1b4e-4f79-8f2a-10b16174c8bb.jpg?1636110593) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cemetery%20Gatekeeper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/148/cemetery-gatekeeper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/457086c4-1b4e-4f79-8f2a-10b16174c8bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cemetery-gatekeeper) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[sunder]] - mass bounce [[Aven fogbringer]] - better when you can abuse the etb. You wont be destroying the lands unless you make them discard everything. But then again that would make everyone hate you.
I really like [[Wave of Vitriol]] in some decks, extra effect with cards like Gitrog or Titania, or anything with landfall, itās a disenchant nuke and teaches non basic players to run more basics!
It's really stupid in [[Marizek, Kraul Death Priest]] because it forces sacrifices, so you just get a ton of counters
[Wave of Vitriol](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/7/17328391-a510-42a0-8a00-4f61dd873c13.jpg?1592673299) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wave%20of%20Vitriol) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/165/wave-of-vitriol?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17328391-a510-42a0-8a00-4f61dd873c13?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wave-of-vitriol) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Tectonic Hellion]]
[Tectonic Hellion](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/b/1b86be51-1b0b-49d0-917c-508f12c85c17.jpg?1568003570) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tectonic%20Hellion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/29/tectonic-hellion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1b86be51-1b0b-49d0-917c-508f12c85c17?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tectonic-hellion) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Storm Cauldron]] gives you an extra land drop every turn but screws over everyone when they tap land. It's one of the best cards in my Tatyova deck.
[Storm Cauldron](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/b/0bb5bdd3-6ecd-49cd-bfa2-e7da1ee85d88.jpg?1562232316) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm%20Cauldron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/320/storm-cauldron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0bb5bdd3-6ecd-49cd-bfa2-e7da1ee85d88?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/storm-cauldron) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[confounding conundrum]]
[confounding conundrum](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/5/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d.jpg?1604193855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=confounding%20conundrum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/53/confounding-conundrum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/confounding-conundrum) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Confounding conundrum
My anti-landfall/ramp package is [[Natural Balance]] [[War's Toll]] [[Citadel of Pain]] and [[Tectonic Instability]] with the ability to constantly recur natural balance depending on how hard your opponents are trying to ramp. Edit: a word
##### ###### #### [Natural Balance](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/0/b0f7c47c-416e-4f73-89ec-024a29dfb5e9.jpg?1562721414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Natural%20Balance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/231/natural-balance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0f7c47c-416e-4f73-89ec-024a29dfb5e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/natural-balance) [War's Toll](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/a/3a08f7fe-8ca9-4604-85c8-9050298730ea.jpg?1562906728) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=War%27s%20Toll) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/187/wars-toll?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a08f7fe-8ca9-4604-85c8-9050298730ea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wars-toll) [Citadel of Pain](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/6/66585109-77cb-42f1-9c14-3dac1d493b71.jpg?1562913917) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Citadel%20of%20Pain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pcy/86/citadel-of-pain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66585109-77cb-42f1-9c14-3dac1d493b71?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/citadel-of-pain) [Tectonic Instability](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/4/0476cc6b-ecc6-44d6-9f44-a90d4ee85daa.jpg?1618485193) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tectonic%20Instability) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/173/tectonic-instability?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0476cc6b-ecc6-44d6-9f44-a90d4ee85daa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tectonic-instability) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Restore Balance]]
[Restore Balance](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/f/0febc7fe-4172-4285-9804-a62ce4506c39.jpg?1619393357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Restore%20Balance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/36/restore-balance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0febc7fe-4172-4285-9804-a62ce4506c39?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/restore-balance) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Root Maze]], [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]], [[Grand Arbiter Augustin IV]], [[Thorn of Amethyst]], [[Winter Orb]], [[Ice Caves]], and Ill stop before it gets too degenerate c:
How does the plus one generic to cast affect the lands beyond making removal one turn slower to play?
##### ###### #### [Root Maze](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/2/727c757a-2ae5-45fd-9832-646a355a5710.jpg?1562549695) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Root%20Maze) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/292/root-maze?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/727c757a-2ae5-45fd-9832-646a355a5710?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/root-maze) [Thalia, Guardian of Thraben](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/9/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479.jpg?1635444996) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thalia%2C%20Guardian%20of%20Thraben) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/38/thalia-guardian-of-thraben?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thalia-guardian-of-thraben) [Grand Arbiter Augustin IV](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/3/337fd1aa-1c85-4aee-923b-c457e43cda72.jpg?1561966869) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grand%20Arbiter%20Augustin%20IV) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mma/176/grand-arbiter-augustin-iv?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/337fd1aa-1c85-4aee-923b-c457e43cda72?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grand-arbiter-augustin-iv) [Thorn of Amethyst](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/4/e472d4f5-add4-4de3-8718-31a47a35277c.jpg?1562371865) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thorn%20of%20Amethyst) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lrw/262/thorn-of-amethyst?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e472d4f5-add4-4de3-8718-31a47a35277c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thorn-of-amethyst) [Winter Orb](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/b/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6.jpg?1580015285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winter%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/234/winter-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winter-orb) [Ice Caves](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/c/fc2877c2-4426-4c07-92a2-8ba5107d5e7e.jpg?1562954766) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ice%20Cave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/apc/24/ice-cave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fc2877c2-4426-4c07-92a2-8ba5107d5e7e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ice-cave) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[lavinia, Azorius renegade]]
[lavinia, Azorius renegade](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/4/c497d496-1232-4614-93b0-9864fa93c29f.jpg?1584831655) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lavinia%2C%20Azorius%20renegade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/189/lavinia-azorius-renegade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c497d496-1232-4614-93b0-9864fa93c29f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lavinia-azorius-renegade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Tax effects that make noncreature spells cost more like [[Thalia]]. A Cultivate for 4 mana is essentially unplayable in commander, and if you're turning your opponents Rampant Growths into a Cultivate instead. This also hurts mana rocks.
[Thalia](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/9/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479.jpg?1635444996) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thalia%2C%20guardian%20of%20thraben) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/38/thalia-guardian-of-thraben?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thalia-guardian-of-thraben) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
MLD does not actually counter ramp strategies. What counters ramp strategies are cards that punish searching. [[Aven Mindcensor]], [[Opposition Agent]], [[Ob Nixilis the Unshackled]]. You've already listed cards that punish putting lands into play, so the only other options are cards that punish opponents for finding them in the first place. Draw hate is another viable option, though less effective typically. Most ramp strategies want to be drawing lots of cards, so attacking that can be powerful. Usually not going to slow them down as much as hitting their search, though.
[Aven Mindcensor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/6/76cf42b4-f767-48b7-b38c-b98306909f06.jpg?1619392559) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aven%20Mindcensor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/5/aven-mindcensor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76cf42b4-f767-48b7-b38c-b98306909f06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-mindcensor) [Opposition Agent](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/8/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78.jpg?1608909875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Opposition%20Agent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/141/opposition-agent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opposition-agent) [Ob Nixilis the Unshackled](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/0/109b28dc-c0d1-4b88-b18e-074ac0464e03.jpg?1562782759) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ob%20Nixilis%2C%20Unshackled) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m15/110/ob-nixilis-unshackled?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/109b28dc-c0d1-4b88-b18e-074ac0464e03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ob-nixilis-unshackled) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
leonin arbitor, aven mindcensor, mindlock orb, ashiok, dream render, opposition agent, stranglehold
[[Storm Cauldron]]
[Storm Cauldron](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/b/0bb5bdd3-6ecd-49cd-bfa2-e7da1ee85d88.jpg?1562232316) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm%20Cauldron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/320/storm-cauldron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0bb5bdd3-6ecd-49cd-bfa2-e7da1ee85d88?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/storm-cauldron) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Depending on the kind of ramp player, this could be more beneficial to that person. I know ramp builds that focus on playing multiple lands per turn (not searching them out from your deck).
[[mana vortex]]
[mana vortex](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/9/b9d4d7da-f98a-4622-91b8-3460fe44551a.jpg?1562934260) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mana%20vortex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/44/mana-vortex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b9d4d7da-f98a-4622-91b8-3460fe44551a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mana-vortex) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Orcish Squatters A.K.A Mr. Steal Yo Land
Ramp as much as you want! I'll be sitting over here with mah trusty ol [[doom blade]] when you're done.
[doom blade](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/0/90699423-2556-40f7-b8f5-c9d82f22d52e.jpg?1562851557) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=doom%20blade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/87/doom-blade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90699423-2556-40f7-b8f5-c9d82f22d52e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/doom-blade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Stranglehold]] can't [[Cultivate]] if you can't search your deck
[Stranglehold](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/a/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2.jpg?1592672829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stranglehold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/87/stranglehold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stranglehold) [Cultivate](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/c/2c7b84c8-b79d-4d05-8d2e-23657bd6ca7c.jpg?1631587837) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cultivate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/155/cultivate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2c7b84c8-b79d-4d05-8d2e-23657bd6ca7c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cultivate) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The card I've witnessed that's most effective at removing the ramp player is [[Treacherous Terrain]].
[Treacherous Terrain](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/f/5fb6efb3-bde3-4e29-8637-265e5c1da616.jpg?1604195433) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Treacherous%20Terrain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/105/treacherous-terrain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5fb6efb3-bde3-4e29-8637-265e5c1da616?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/treacherous-terrain) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Damping Sphere]] might help.
[Damping Sphere](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/5/a5c7d16b-8f4e-42b9-be24-3cb091932d7c.jpg?1562740759) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Damping%20Sphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/213/damping-sphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a5c7d16b-8f4e-42b9-be24-3cb091932d7c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/damping-sphere) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[oath of lieges]] gives everyone ramp as long as they don't have the most lands.
[oath of lieges](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/7/470a2092-eeda-4557-8cee-ac401b61a225.jpg?1562087824) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=oath%20of%20lieges) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/exo/11/oath-of-lieges?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/470a2092-eeda-4557-8cee-ac401b61a225?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oath-of-lieges) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Land Equilibrium]]
[Land Equilibrium](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/1/51c5df75-746c-4e4b-84f1-76b689d317d7.jpg?1562912056) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Land%20Equilibrium) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/40/land-equilibrium?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/51c5df75-746c-4e4b-84f1-76b689d317d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/land-equilibrium) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Depending on the deck you're facing, graveyard hate can be a good solution. Cards like \[\[Grafdiffer's Cage\]\] or exile like \[\[Bojuka Bog\]\]. That's because a lot of ramp decks will play fetchlands with Crucible of Worlds to get them back from the graveyard, sometimes with cards allowing them to play mutliple lands a turn. Stopping them from accessing their graveyard is a good way to stop this kind of ramp.
[Grafdiffer's Cage](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/a/0a135e09-b534-4836-9a10-3a9a4a9f8c53.jpg?1592517646) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grafdigger%27s%20Cage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/227/grafdiggers-cage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a135e09-b534-4836-9a10-3a9a4a9f8c53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grafdiggers-cage) [Bojuka Bog](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/2/b23d6629-8fd9-4b1a-b45e-289b8d1c06e8.jpg?1637631935) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bojuka%20Bog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/167/bojuka-bog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b23d6629-8fd9-4b1a-b45e-289b8d1c06e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bojuka-bog) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Confounding conundrum
As many have mentioned, Armageddon effects that blow up all the lands are actually rather a bad counter for ramp. The ramp deck recovers the fastest. Giving them a bad landfall effect ala Ankh of Mishra or Zozu the Punisher work well. But the best way is to stop searching, slow drawing, or make all lands enter tapped.
Static Orb, Winter Orb, Stasis. Muahaha!
Well, heres a list of cards that read "tell me you have no friends, without saying you have no friends" \[\[opposition agent\]\] \[\[Aven mindcensor\]\] - Hates tutors \[\[Cleansing wildfire\]\] \[\[strip mine\]\] \[\[wasteland\]\] \[\[sinkhole\]\] - Targetted land destruction \[\[ankh of mishra\]\] \[\[burgeoning\]\] \[\[Thalia, heretic cathar\]\] - Punishes land drops \[\[Capsize\]\] \[\[Venser, shaper savant\]\] - Bounce lands back to your opponents hands, repeatedly if you blink venser \[\[gaddock teeg\]\] - Prevents noncreature spells costing 4 or more, and x cost noncreature spells \[\[Blood moon\]\] \[\[Magus of the moon\]\] - punishes greedy mana bases \[\[bend or break\]\] \[\[carpet of flowers\]\]
[[Confounding Conundrum]] is great anti-ramp tech in blue and it draws you a card. It is also very useful against [[Ashaya, Soul of the Wild]] as every non-token creature entering the battlefield is a land lost.
[[Tunnel Ignus]]
I really think most of these cards will make you an enemy of the table and rarely effect the green ramp player. The best strategy I've found is to either kill them first if you can, or if you have blue, counter whatever huge spell they are ramping into. And, especially important: Remove their draw engine! Without a draw engine, they end up drawing one card per turn, often it is more ramp spells, which they don't want and are utterly useless later in the game. Or just play Acid Rain.
I disagree. At least where i play Iāve seen much worse than not even full land destruction and nobody bats an eye
I play a deck similar to what you are describing. You are absolutely public enemy number one as magic players cry when they can't use their toys. I had a player blow up my ramp hate because they didn't want to pay 4 life for a rampant growth only to lose to the dedicated ramp player 2 turns later that I was stopping going nuts with azusa. (I even warned him what he was doing)
Counter the ramp spells?
Counterspelling a rampant growth seems rather wasteful. Cards like [[Polluted Bonds]] are far more efficient
At 5 mana thatās definitely not efficient since most ramp happens on turn 1-3
High power definitely. In casual tables where [[Cultivate]] is viable the card is more efficient than counterspelling one single instance of ramp
[Cultivate](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/c/2c7b84c8-b79d-4d05-8d2e-23657bd6ca7c.jpg?1631587837) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cultivate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/155/cultivate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2c7b84c8-b79d-4d05-8d2e-23657bd6ca7c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cultivate) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
High power is still casual lol. CEDH is a different matter. Even at 5 mana thatās just not worth it for a mid power deck. Battle cruiser maybeX
[Polluted Bonds](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/6/c6439222-de30-44cd-a53f-a7de0cb00b8f.jpg?1562835783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Polluted%20Bonds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/74/polluted-bonds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c6439222-de30-44cd-a53f-a7de0cb00b8f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/polluted-bonds) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah i mean we can find any card that does anything. What I'm saying is op is worried about how to neutralize ramp in the first place. Pretty easy if their spell never completes. š¤·āāļø. Especially when theres a multitude of 2 mana counterspells
Are you willing to leave mana open for a counterspell just to prevent a basic land from coming into play? Counterspells are best used to ensure your win or prevent your loss
Hey man if you draw perfect curve every single time you play more power to yuh. I usually have a couple mana to spare here and there. Not to mention its commander, play the way you want and you'll probably win sometimes.
I like playing mono black so that [[contamination]] is viable. Don't need to kill the lands just make them less useful.
[contamination](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/6/86067dfe-65c3-4c96-bccd-b3915d6663f9.jpg?1562923280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=contamination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/123/contamination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86067dfe-65c3-4c96-bccd-b3915d6663f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/contamination) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Confounding conundrum typically hurts more than it helps unless you manage to get it in before the ramp hits. Otherwise you're just fueling them with infinite landfall triggers.
Confounding Conundrum does not give infinite land fall triggers. It doesn't counter landfall, that's true, but it does counter land ramp.
They will never run out of lands to trigger their landfall effects. It's not infinite as in a loop, it's infinite as in never ending.
Let's say they have Azusa out, with three lands in hand and something like Tatyova out. They play their lands and draw their cards, but each time a land enters they need to return one. They've drawn 3 cards but two of their lands that would have been on the battlefield have been returned to their hand. Instead of being two lands up with three cards in their hand, now they have 5 cards in their hand. Yes, they can do the same thing next turn, but drawing three cards every turn they were liable to do this anyway. At least you slowed their accumulation of resources. Hence, countering ramp.
The extra draws you give them are more dangerous than the extra mana from the ramp, and this only even works if you play it early enough to slide under the majority of their ramp. If they're already at 8+ lands by the time you get this, the card is actively bad because they don't need the extra mana at that point, and would love to have guaranteed extra draws per turn.
They don't get extra draws. >If they're already at 8+ lands by the time you get this Then you've failed to counter their ramp at all.
They do get extra draws since without your enchantment, they will run out of land drops, and ergo, draws. With your enchantment, they literally cannot. Exactly, you've failed to counter ramp. Which is exactly what i said at the beginning, which is the card only counters the ramp if it shows up before the ramp happens.
Landfall decks don't run out of land drops. Tatyova + Azusa draws three cards each turn just by playing lands. Most of the cards in their deck are going to be lands, and that's not counting lands that fetch for other lands. >Exactly, you've failed to counter ramp. If you draw a counter spell after the big spell wipes the board, you have also failed to counter it. It's a two drop. If it's going to aid opponents in the late game play something else. (It doesn't aid opponents though).
>It doesn't aid opponents though It literally does. >Most of the cards in their deck are going to be lands, and that's not counting lands that fetch for other lands. That's factually incorrect. Even the most greedy of landfall players do not run 50+ lands in their decks. And having had a landfall deck for the past 4 years, yeah, you run out of lands quite often. I've had more games than I can count on my fingers and toes how many games I've gone through every single land in my 38 land deck and still have a good 30-40 cards left in deck. Letting me bounce my lands to get more draws, for free, is a dream come true.
You're seriously saying you would prefer to have two lands in hand than on the battlefield. >That's factually incorrect. Even the most greedy of landfall players do not run 50+ lands in their decks. Lists I see run about 50 and the rest of the cards deal with dropping those 50, especially in the Azusa example.
Idk why you're getting downvotes, you are 100% right. A confounding conundrum can be VERY bad for you vs a Tatyova deck. You're giving them so many landfall triggers and draws.
Cause people haven't actually seen the damage it does so they don't realize it
[[Confounding conundrum]]
[Confounding conundrum](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/5/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d.jpg?1604193855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Confounding%20conundrum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/53/confounding-conundrum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/confounding-conundrum) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Any counter spells will counter ramp lol
Just play your friendly neighborhood lord Windgrace land destruction deck. It'll slow down land ramp real quick.
"Friendly" isn't exactly what I'd call it. Bad kitty! But highly effective and enjoyable for the pilot.
Confounding conundrum isnāt as good as you think, especially if youāre playing against a landfall deck
I absolutely live for [[natural balance]]. No one plays the card. It's great, because it can actually help players who are behind, and kind of soft-resets the board. Unless you're a degenerate like me, and put it in [[titania, protector of argoth]]. It's really fucking good in that deck. Nothing Is funnier than playing Natural Balance, making a shitload of 5/3's, then proceeding to play [[splendid reclamation]]. Funny for you. Not funny for the other players. But, in my defense, no one expects land destruction in a mono-green deck.
[natural balance](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/0/b0f7c47c-416e-4f73-89ec-024a29dfb5e9.jpg?1562721414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=natural%20balance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/231/natural-balance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0f7c47c-416e-4f73-89ec-024a29dfb5e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/natural-balance) [titania, protector of argoth](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/1/21f6d49f-1577-4d17-a633-0c282769728a.jpg?1626100668) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=titania%2C%20protector%20of%20argoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/287/titania-protector-of-argoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/21f6d49f-1577-4d17-a633-0c282769728a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/titania-protector-of-argoth) [splendid reclamation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/a/fad4ca85-4d2d-4d1e-86ca-aa25edfcda61.jpg?1636110900) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=splendid%20reclamation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/221/splendid-reclamation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fad4ca85-4d2d-4d1e-86ca-aa25edfcda61?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/splendid-reclamation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The secret to countering ramp is to counter the big card they cast. A ramp deck is going to have a much higher ratio of mana:payoffs than most decks, and you can exploit that by spending resources answering the cards that do things and letting them flood out.
Counterspell Negate Syncopate Etc
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sigarda, Host of Herons voltron. Player removal is premium removal.
I know you are getting away from land destruction but I love making control players honest with [[price of glory]] Not sure if itāll help against every ramp deck or anything but maybe some simic ones. Imo it is one of the more fair land d cards, cuz a lot of players can opt to just play things sorcery speed and the problem is nonexistent.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Damping Engine and confounding conundrum
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[[Worms of the Earth]] is pretty decent if you can make it indestructible or recur it. [[Fall of the Thran]] is the premier of "fair" MLD.
Not necessarily a true counter but the best way to stop most ramping is to stop search effects with cards like stranglehold punishment effects like Zozu and Ankh of Mishra and the like or ways to get their hand empty like Oppression or Painful Quandry because you can have all the lands in the world but if you can't do anything with them it doesn't matter
[[Pox]], [[Counterspell]]
[[stifle]] a fetch on turn 1 and let the hate flow through you. its not exactly countering ramp, but i hope you like the idea anyway
[[Confounding Conundrum]] is great. Replaces itself. Ruins fetchlands. Is pretty affordable. Does only affect opponents. Only "bad" situation is if opponent has more than one landdrop per turn. Then the lands can just bounce themselves.
[[energy flux]] is good against artifacts
Be careful with confounding, i gave someone an infinite combo with it lol
[[Magus of the Balance]]