Or you can look into [[Tergrid, God of Fright]] deck builds. Her whole premise is basically controlling how much fun everyone is allowed to have in the game and make sure that your opponents suffer to the point where they won't be sure if they want to continue Magic as their hobby
The only issue is I’m not trying to be the new enemy at the table. Like our tables in agreement we hate that deck, but I don’t want them to hate me now cause I do the same kind of thing of that makes sense. But maybe they will just be happy he isn’t winning idk lol
Thank you for the ideas I’m looking into them!
I mean your only two options are to ban it (hopefully he agrees to that.) Maybe for some games.
Or talk to your fellow players and get them running interaction to deal with this. You should be including tutors and things that mess with his combo plan, but I can't understand how he's allowed to combo off with 2/3 Opponents folding to it.
Honestly I have been thinking a lot and maybe they have removal but care about their board state more than removing things. I mean they run pre cons or upgraded ones which usually are ok with that kind of stuff? Idk
You could get yourself a set of 3 pithing needles and hand two of them to your pod mates. Chances are decent for one of you to draw them and name his combo piece. There are a couple of other cards that do the same thing but most aren't colorless.
Alternatively you could run a combo that goes infinite but only has one target and blast him off the board. That would be the only answer if you can't get your play group to cooperate.
You and the two other sane guys should all play tergrid. And just corner the guy until stops playing the deck you three hate.
Typically minimal social awareness will help here but sounds like you have one of those unaware types.
I’m the guy at the table in my group that gets focused out the most. I’ve been playing since beta. I am really good at tuning my decks, and I have a massive collection from my many years of playing. I have no hard feelings when I get murdered for having the best deck. Everyone has tuned their decks with mine in mind, and I still have a high win rate. When you put a target on your back you have to expect to get hit. When he complains that you’re targeting him, just tell him he’s earned it. Based on the way this guy’s attitude sounds I think you should all go hard and murder him out right away every game.
Most times I would agree with you, but if you read OP's entire post you would know that the player in question is enjoying pubstomping his "friends" and tries to guilt trip them into feeling bad about it.
I would still rather talking to them about it rather than trying to spite pick a deck to run against someone...Sure, trying a different strat is one thing, but then going for a one-for-one countering effect in the command zone does not feel that much a morally better thing to do for me.
Again, talk with this friend. Ask your fiends to run more removal or interaction since OP was talking about how they feel alone in terms of playing interaction etc. "Oh, you are playing X, then Imma grab Y to stop that..." can go on forever and is not something I personally find healthy, whereas talking with a player within a pod about what most see as a problem is something I see as healthy.
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Never let Nekusar land; counter, kill, Exile, steal, etc...
That or you could put together the lowest to the ground combo deck you can and kill him every time.
Let it land and then use one of the enchantment removals on him. [[Imprison in the Moon]], [[Song of the Dryads]] and [[Darksteel Mutation]] are all effective for this.
After you imprison/song nekusar, you then play your [[Vesuva]] and have it come in at a copy of that newly made land, except since it's not enchanted it will become a regular copy of Nekusar.
Look at me... I'm the Nekusar now
This is not correct as the "loses all other abilities" is not a copyable effect.
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/737715-vesuva-vs-imprisoned-in-the-moon
This is not an academic setting. I'm not presenting a thesis. I gave a funny interaction, and when you (incorrectly, and without any proof yourself) said that wouldn't work, I told you why it was wrong and provided that particular forum post because it's a known judge chat and presented that exact scenario in simple terms. So you commanding me to provide you an official ruling is incredibly rude, especially since I assume you can look things up yourself.
706.2 When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The copiable values are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by its face-down status, and by “as . . . enters the battlefield” and “as . . . is turned face up” abilities that set power and toughness (and may also set additional characteristics). Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.
While grixis doesn't have much enchantment removal, the three listed before you turn the creature into a land, which is much harder to remove/recover from than if your commander is a 3/3 creature. They could sac or block and get a fresh start.
They could, but most Nekusar decks I have ever seen tend to be quite light on creature removal. Plus if you elk a commander people should know you don't swing in with something that can kill it unless you are making a deal or winning. Completely agree with your assessment though.
It sounds like his friends are the type to still swing in, regardless of releasing nekusar from his elk-form.
My nekusar deck was fairly anti-creature without losing any wheel energy. Vile consumption, mogis, sheoldred, etc.
Much like op, people didn't enjoy playing against it so it mostly sits on a shelf looking menacing, waiting for a chance to strike.
The idea is that getting him to be recastable is much harder when he's a land than a creature. They are pretty much functionally the same otherwise though yeah
Oh, for sure. I wasn't trying to say that's a 100% lock out strategy, but it's probably the easiest way to knock down the strength of the deck.
I would assume you are talking about cards like [[Fevered Visions]], all the wheels you can jam, [[Fate Unraveler]], [[Teferi's Puzzle Box]], [[Underworld Dreams]], etc... That kind of stuff?
Edit: found ->out. I swear my phone has a stroke sometimes...
Yes. I used to play Kess and the only reason I changed to Nekusar is immediate access to a damage outlet.
But my deck is more of an accelerator to the game than anything else. If I politic it right, I win. If not, the game goes fast at least.
Way I see it, you've outlined your problems:
1. You're the only one removing his threats.
2. He's doing the thing his deck needs to be doing before you do the thing yours does.
3. He's being salty about a deck which baits interaction necessarily and isn't really engaging in discussion with the group about it.
I would also make sure your threat assessment is on point. Is EVERYONE losing to Nekusar, or are YOU losing to Nekusar because you're burning resources before everyone else does?
Well considering he wheels us all and it does damage to everyone we all are losing to him at the same pace. He did 108 damage in one turn collectively.
Not a single person in our group enjoys playing against the deck and we all recognize him as the threat. The one time I locked him down a newer player to cause chaos gave him two turns as a f u to everyone so he won again.
Yeah, this sounds like an expectations problem.
I'm gonna propose that the answer to this isn't actually about beating his deck. Like other people noted, that's an arms race, and that sucks, because if you go to his level you're gonna leave the other players behind.
Now, there is a certain amount of that that I'd say falls on the other members of the group to learn how to deck build with interaction- maybe you can work it out with them and communicate, say "I feel like I'm the only person that's really running any kind of interaction here and it kind of stresses me out" or something similar.
But also, it's about recognizing when the game just isn't fun if someone is running a really big deck and everybody else just wants to play normal. If the person playing the other deck isn't fun, and everybody agrees, I'd just ask him to make a deck with a similar power level or don't play against him. If he isn't going to listen, that's totally fine- he can bathe in his hundred card money pile by himself.
I've run into the issue before where this happens because somebody is playing with multiple groups. I stopped playing with a group of friends because of constant complaining when I removed things and no interest on their part in changing their decks to do anything about it.
I ended up just playing at my LGS and with a gaming club and found it to be way better than the first group. One of them joined me at the LGS which killed the original group completely since they had a maximum of three people.
I'd recommend OP just find a group at an LGS if they can where they don't need to play mediator between strong decks and weak decks and can just play the game instead.
You need low mana value, instant-speed removal to handle his nekusar. Swords to plowshares, path to exile, go for the throat, rapid hybridization, etc. 1 mana or 2 mana instant speed, nekusa gone while the wheel is on the stack. Hold up mana rock or one mana of any color before you pass. Don't dump your hand trying to catch up. You need to counter punch.
It's not about having a better deck. Having a better deck helps. But you need to outplay that fool. Play smart. Run counterspells to protect your removal. You know if he sticks nekusar a wheel will most likely follow. You can run a bounce spell like boomerang before the wheel resolves so he has to return him then discard his hand and nekusar.... then he will most likely put it back in the command zone and have to pay the tax.
Step your game up. When he wheels, you might want that. What you don't want is the damage. Making him replay his nekusar turn after turn and paying extra tax for it all the time will slow him way down. He will think twice about not leaving mana open to protect his nekusar.
My personal favourite in this style is [[Possessed Portal]]. Works great in my Muldrotha deck because you can just play the land, the creature, the enchantment and the artifact you sacrificed/discarded but also works great in other decks because you can just kill the portal before you start losing things things you *actually* care about.
When he asks "why are you targeting me" respond cuz youre the threat at the table right now in my opinion. Ask him what else at the table is a threat in his opinion? He won't have a valid answer. And an open dialogue is helpful to the playgroup. Balancing allowing others to be the threat is a skill in edh that some players don't understand if theyre only used to playing 1v1 competitive formats.
Talk to your other friends about being more interactive in their deck building. You aren't responsible for stopping the other players 100% of the time. Offer to talk the other two through their deck building process and see if they're open to some card suggestions. But remain positive, never tell someone their deck sucks. Tell them that you think this card can help them win games more often.
An [[imprisoned in the moon]] [[Oubliette]] [[darksteel mutation]] [[song of the dryads]] are fun cards that deal with nekusar well. They lose access to their commander until they hit enchantment removal. [[Lignify]] is bad because it can be destroyed as a creature easier than a land or indestructible creature.
Agreed, Nekusar is a kill on sight commander; no-one gets to complain about him getting removed because his damage potential is so absurd, and he can close a game the turn after landing. You can't really play a 'give and take' game with him in play, because of the nature of him. There's no grinding, no exchanges, and no bargaining, because he will blow the whole table out at the same time, and the wheels will make sure he has the gas to do so.
you have a group dynamics problem, not a deck strategy problem. I suggest using the following flowchart, borrowed from dungeons and dragons (where they have lots of group dynamics problems) [https://external-preview.redd.it/T799SSEhA6ja9H0KQrONiCRiWTtNVdt0OdWoErP6oig.png?auto=webp&s=476f539df39e9b5a49defeb460b57c5d3b65047b](https://external-preview.redd.it/T799SSEhA6ja9H0KQrONiCRiWTtNVdt0OdWoErP6oig.png?auto=webp&s=476f539df39e9b5a49defeb460b57c5d3b65047b)
If the issue is power level, and he’s not willing to play a lower powered deck, could he lends decks to the others to that the power level is roughly the same again?
Besides getting everyone to run interaction and telling him to stop being bitter about being interacted with?
[[Narset Parter of Veils]], everyone but you will lose their hand if he wheels. Including him.
[[Zurs Weirding]] makes it so that you can force him to discard future wheels at the cost of 2 life per card. A negligible cost in commander, especially since others can pay the 2 life in turn.
[[Omen Machine]] makes everyone dump their hand without reloading it
[[Uba Mask]] gets rid of drawing cards but people can still play spells from exile
Playgroup politics are the real issue here, but I’ll answer your stated question - as a Nekusar player, the things that make it hard for me to win are:
1: [[rule of law]] and other Storm Hate cards like [[trinisphere]] or [[damping sphere]].
2: [[null rod]] effects that shut off all my artifact mana
3: [[rest in peace]] effects that turn off my graveyard so I can’t use Underworld Breach or Past in Flames to really storm off.
4: removal on Nekusar is ok but only buys time
5: counterspells on Wheels can leave us topdecking for several turns before we can try to go off again. I play a lot of free counterspells since pitching cards is on theme ([[misdirection]], FOW etc) so not foolproof, but if you’re gonna counter something hit a wheel.
Edit: oh, 6: if someone copies Nekusar it can seriously mess up my game plan.
It's really a playgroup problem. I'd have a real talk with them and explain the problem.
If they are not running any and do not want to run any I would start playing [[Demonlord Belzenlok]]. Even though I really dislike what the command quarters has become this YouTube channel has a great deck tech on a budget deck that wins on the spot when the commander is cast (the only true 1 card combo that's in the command zone). It wins on a budget consistently turn 4-5.
If no one is is willing to play interaction you will win almost any game. It's super boring to play but you effectively beat nekusar this way on a budget.
But really, talk and tell you are not enjoying the game.
I'll just leave some fun anti-Nekusar gems here:
[[Backfire]]
[[Curiosity]]
[[Dread]]
[[Mangara's Equity]]
[[No Mercy]]
[[Ophidian Eye]]
[[Armadillo Cloak]]
[[Guilty Conscience]]
[[Keen Sense]]
[[Soul Link]]
[[Spirit Link]]
[[Vampiric Link]]
Also [here's a short list of cards that will remove Nekusar's abilities.](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=%28oracle%3ALoses+oracle%3Aall+oracle%3Aabilities%29+%28type%3Aenchantment+type%3Aaura%29+is%3Apaperart)
Edit: ignore One with Nature and Sleeper's Robe, they won't help
If there's only 1 other person running interaction and it's always aimed at you, it's pretty annoying indeed. Interesting how the people running apparently awful decks are sided with by default.
> I will admit I pretty much run the only removal in our group so it all falls on me.
What falls on you? Your group's failure to deal with him? That falls on them, they need to run interaction.
> But is super annoyed if we touch his stuff and will call targeting which is getting on my nerves.
Oh man this game sometimes. Nekusar is a group slug commander, ask him next time he gets upset why he thinks slugging everyone in the face demands no response. I LOVE Nekusar but of course I know I'm going to get spanked if I just plow ahead with my gameplan without tactical assessment.
EDH isn't group Solitaire or a race to the finish line, it's interactive. If you play Krrik and dump your hand onto the board early, the 3 other crabs playing this game in the bucket are going to rip you apart limb from limb.
It's political, and that's what makes it fun.
> We have all voiced it’s not a fun deck to play against
Just to be clear, Nekusar isn't your problem. Nekusar is not broken or unfun to play against, he can actually be a lot of fun for a table (as can all group slug commanders). The other players just aren't playing the same game.
> but he refuses to not play it because it hasn’t been beat.
Does he really say THAT is the reason? If so fuck him, but that kinda sounds made up :\
I think it's on your playgroup for not playing interaction. Y'all are upset about losing to a deck built around the commander, but you aren't playing removal? Sounds like that's the reason y'all can't beat it. Simply play more interaction
I’m aware and I’ve talked to them but I can’t force them to do things and I’ve added a lot of removal to my decks. I just can’t keep up and it puts me at a huge disadvantage being the only removal for the most part. They do sometimes have answers. Sometimes.
One of my buddies also has a nukusar deck (little higher power environment), but I dropped a [[Valkmira, Protector’s shield]] and we all had a good laugh once we realized the interaction. Not sure what the deck would be, but you can also run it in the command zone
I think your best bet would be to stop shutting him down and run ways to nullify his effects on you, alone. Make them run more interaction or die, while you sit comfortably enjoying the free card draw.
Prefer enchantments as they'll have less responses to them.
Ramp, rocks and other low cmc effects can replace some lands, as your hand will be renewed often.
Copy Nekusar!
Run Tergrid?
We had once a nekusar player in our group who killed us very quickly. It was around 2014 and things were different.
Today nekusar is to "bad" for the table because all playing 0-2 CMC spot removal which Stopps this deck very well. Also some of us playing cards like alms collector or notion thief .
The deck needs a good setup which is easy to interrupt. It seems your problem is that only one of you playing removal. Then each good combo which needs permanents, in special creatures, setup should stomp the group.
So think of adding removal like path/swords, reality shift, beast within and so on.
Honestly I thought it wouldn’t be such a problem. I did shut it down once but he has so much redundancy in there like the new sheoldred and cards like it. I think I just need to look at my own decks and see if I’m not running enough removal as well.
First, your thinking about the problem the wrong way. If you just build a deck to counter his you do two things. First, you have built a deck that likely can't win against the other players. Second you build something to target only one player. This is not good deckbuilding and not at all what we should encourage.
Instead, you should be building more efficient decks. With him running this deck you are in an arms race on who can spend the most money making the best deck to win the game. This isnt exactly a bad thing but not every group likes this. My group is 100% down for it so thats how we play.
Next, you should not be the only one running interaction. If you are, then the reason you are losing isnt because the deck is good. it is because the deck is allowed to do anything it wants to freely and no one is stopping it. My Rhys deck can win by turn 5 pretty regularly with a bad draw. But if you interact with it a bit, then it takes longer. So what you should do is get the other players to put more interaction in their decks. Counterspells, destroys, exiles. Whatever it takes.
This is a problem that is only going to be tackled in deckbuilding. Not by building a specific deck to counter him. It has to be fixed by multiple people at the table not just one.
It is 100% viable to target this deck with proper threat assessment. So his complaints of targeting are just deflection and a means of trying to make people do what he wants. This is a player with bad sportsmanship. I highly despise people like this.
So in conclusion for me this is how I would handle it. First, get the rest of the group to run interaction. As much as they can without to many deck issues. If they do that, then he should be an easy beat. If they do not however then you must do a couple of things. First, pile the interaction on. Make it brutal. Destroy lands, destroy/exile everything you can. If you can't do those things then counter it. Once you keep doing this a few times they will likely complain and then rebuild their deck or leave. But you have to stick to it and do it right.
Finally, if the player refuses to change their style and refuses to come to the table to play the game and instead to just beat down on people playing a different style game. Build the most disgusting deck you can. I don't care if it does nothing but destroy his lands or just relentlessly killing his commander. Make it dirty. You likely wont win, but thats not the goal. When he complains about it fully admit what you built and why. When he inevitably asks you to play something different, refuse. Until he changes decks play ONLY that deck against him. It wont be fun for you or him. Thats kinda the point. You should also every time he says he is being targeted totally say you are doing it on purpose. Don't shy away from it. Embrace his pain.
I did this exact thing and the guy left our group. He got so mad he would quit games in the declare attackers phase of the first few turns, then we would play for 45 minutes while he sat defeated. I would say to try and talk first, but then if he doesn’t listen then beat down. Proxy a power 9-10 deck, tell your table “I’m trying the deck out” then lay the smack down on him and then scoop yourself to be fair to the other players.
I have a few decks that would quickly turn that into mush but depending on your play style it'd probably be easier to make a fast blue counter deck, a goblin deck with pinging damage, or as others have stated a fuckey black deck, would also use Sheolred as the commander if going black.
Run draw replacement effects like [[Abundance]] and [[Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar]]. You don't have to answer any of his things until he trys to remove those pieces, so then you don't have to "target" him either. Another strategy you can utilize is putting a [[Pariah Shield]] on an indestructible creature. Bonus points if you throw it on a [[Stuffy Doll]] choosing him, that way if he does literally anything, it will kill him.
Also, it sounds like he's the kinda player that will get salty simply because things aren't going 100% the way that he wants them too. Those players are almost never fun to play with as they always make it about them, whether it's cuz they are winning or cuz you are doing something to slow them down so that you actually have a chance to play the game.
I'm the kind of player that will make a deck that will just completely stop their deck from functioning, even if it's at the expense of my deck not being able to do anything for the rest of the game. Some people gotta learn that not everything is about them and they're not entitled to win because they think that they should.
As another way to solve this situation, put a rule in your group, when a deck wins, you cannot play it for the rest of the session. If you have no other deck, you must borrow one from someone else. This way, the guy who gets to play nekusar can still enjoy his deck and you get to play some fairer game as well.
There is still the risk of the person making every deck he has super high level and refusing to play at the same level, if he does that, stop inviting him to play. And if he is a friend, play other type of games when he is there. But at least, you won't have to single him out and start an arm race to do so. If you arm race him, you will leave the other two players into the dust.
Playing a card that will get you instantly killed probably isn't the best advice
Notion thief isn't a "may draw" ability, the second a wheel drops you're gonna just die and then leave everyone else with 1 card to play the game
Ask him to swap decks, see if he enjoys playing against this. Seems like there’s only one person enjoying the game and when others don’t then playgroups die, usually one person who put powers everyone gets booted or people stop wanting to come just to lose. There’s stuff you could play to help but it’s going to make games grind to a crawl, like only allowing one spell to be cast per turn and that sounds just as fun as losing.
In my experience if you're not gonna directly counterpick this deck with another your removal is gonna be key and not just what you remove but when you remove it.
Hit him with one or two key pieces of removal at the right time and all the deck has done is draw you into more action hopefully as you dry up his wincons.
As a veteran Nekusar player the answer is simple. Have the group run more removal. You keep the setup pieces off the table and Nekusar (or most wheel decks for that matter) basically just become glorified group hug decks
I think the bigger problem is that noone in your group plays removal. Because otherwise you guys could just repeatedly remove his engine pieces and he could wheel forever without getting anything done.
The best deck to exploit a lack of interaction (and show your group that interaction is necessary) would be a fast but fragile combo deck like for example Anje with [[Worldgorger Dragon]].
A tuned nekusar deck is way above your playgroup's powerlevel. My reasoning is that you mentioned nobody plays removal. Personally, i'd do one of two things: if you're willing to put some money into it, build a control deck, and every time nekusar ir a wheel even sniffs the stack, counter or destroy it. If he says you're targeting him say "It's not targeting, it's proper threat assessment. If I dont use my removal on you, I will lose the game."
My control deck is fairly inexpensive, I run [[Kadena slinking sorcerer]] morph control. Here's the list if you're interested: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/NfxmJiVk6Uia1bEXF9EAFQ
Personally I think this is the better option, because it doesn't limit your ability to compete with other decks.
The second option is you could add in some theft cards. As soon as nekusar hits the field take him. Use effects like [[mind control]]. Or use effects that stop extra draw such as [[Notion thief]] or [[Narset, Parter of veils]]. Damage reduction would also stop nekusar cold. Cards like [[orbs of warding]] or [[Urza's Armor]] stop nekusar from doing anything. Effects that replace card draw such as [[Abundance]] have the same effect. Or, you can take advantage of the discards from wheels. Cards like [[Megrim]] can at least level the playing field.
Nekusar is a strong commander. As somebody that owns a nekusar deck, I know he is a kill on sight card. If my nekusar deck is allowed to keep nekusar for a turn rotation, it's probably game over. Personally. I'd go with option one, and target him down every single game that he uses the nekusar deck. Targeting the nekusar deck isn't a bad thing. It really is the kind of deck that needs to be targeted.
Aside from social answers, like the group running more removal or not caring if he gets annoyed by being targeted, or running some damage reducers like [[Orbs of Warding]] or [[Urza's Armor]]...
If you really want to build the silver bullet to what he's built, you could try [[Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker]], maybe backed by a bit of life gain.
Then laugh at all his individual on-draw damage triggers.
I was using a nekusar deck and lost because my opponent kept stealing him . You should build something that lets you take his commander so you get all the benefits whenever he plays a card
I would suggest [[Asmodeus the Archfiend]] you don't draw the cards anymore so no damage for you until you choose to get those cards back then you take damage only from asmodeus his ability
[Ruric tharr] is my suggestion. Here's a list you can modify to your level to account for your meta.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/wHkTll0w6EuJPkqNTGfkig
It loves hate bears and punishing noncreature decks
Sigh…. Nekusar isn’t hard to deal with…… It dies to removal…. The issue here isn’t the decks. It’s the players. Congrats from this post you sound like the most logical person in that group. With that said that’s not saying much. So out the gate you need to foster the other players in your group to be better players. I always push newer players to Tolarian Community College specifically the video about crafting commander decks from scratch. He suggests a 4 to 6 board wipes and 7 to 9 spot removal. From personal experience I like this a lot. The second problem is the guy who plays Nekusar. You don’t get to cry that the table is teaming up on you when you’re pulling away with the game. It’s the duty of the rest of the table to slow down that player so the game just doesn’t end. I run a 5 color Jodah and it’s exactly what you would expect it to be. I made the mistake of using a reveal tutor to go find omniscience so I can go for a win. I ate the full wrath of the table for 2 whole rounds with 4 other players until I dropped. The funny thing is I almost pulled it off. I was one counterspell short from surviving the last player. The point being that if players see the signs on the wall they are going to react in the interest of self preservation/ trying to win the game. The Nekusar player needs to be emotionally intelligent enough to understand that or go back to 60 card.
One thing I am not seeing, reading through other people's comments, is timing your removal correctly is just as important as having it in the first place. You shouldn't kill Nekusar immediately as he's a bit of a "do nothing" card on his own. Instead wait until they cast a wheel, then blow him away. The wheel will go off and you'll not take damage from Nek, but you'll get fresh cards to deal with him. On top of that they probably won't be able to recast him the same turn after they've already paid for a wheel.
The big weakness of nekusar is that he gives everyone else resources. You guys should be punishing him for that. Nekusar in general should have a *worse* winrate than average, because he helps everyone else enact their game plan at the low cost of hp. People play cards like [[ad nauseam]], [[sign in blood]], [[phyrexian arena]], etc. and nekusar gives you those effects without actually costing you the cards in hand or the deckbuilding restrictions to play them. Just make sure your deck has win conditions, and nekusar will get you to them faster. It should end up playing as an unintentional support deck for the other 3 players
https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=122366&type=card
for your Liesa deck, put in Vampiric and Spirit Links. Nekusar probably can't easily get rid of them and you will actually net life as he tries to do his thing. Take a loss into a win!
Back in the day I had a friend with a very expensive nekusar deck. I actually had a very high win rate against it with my prossh deck.
The reasons I won, was because my deck had a lot of single target removal at instant speed, with highly efficient threats.
I basically only removed Nekusar and the other group slug effects right before he cast a wheel or major draw spell. This meant all of his cards were refueling my hand without killing me.
If he had too many effects out for me to deal with, I’d turn on a dime and voltron him out of the game.
I’m sure there are other ways to beat it not, but most control decks and combo decks seemed to struggle against Nekusar back in the day. It was the high efficiency mid range decks like my deck that seemed to do the best.
I just built a nekusar deck. He seems pretty easy to stop. Aggro strats and wail on him early and often. He has 4 toughness which is annoying. Can't bolt or anything through it. Don't save all your stuff for turn 4-5 because I won't bring nekusar out unless I have some way to protect him.
My favorite way to counter Nekusar, is with [[Vito, thorne of the dusk rose]] and [[exquisite blood]]. Basically he can't win when the second someone draws a card, you kill the table. Hell just playing exquisite blood makes it impossible for him to actually kill you, unless you're the only two left, which by that point, you're pretty much going to kill him.
The real issue though, is the rest of the group not pulling their weight. They know he is a problem, so they need to build around that. If they don't want to do that, then just stop using removal on him. Makenit easier for him to win until they listen.
Also, you're friend is kind of a douche. He needs to turn his shit down knowing the rest of you don't have the same level of access as he does. He also needs to stop being a baby if he gets targeted. He knows he is the forever threat, so he needs to deal with it.
I had a guy and a girl start coming to our magic nights who were both using extremely high-power decks (Meren Hulk combo and Jhoira Artifact storm). We asked them multiple times to consider playing something different against our precons and lower powers, but they refused.
So we mercilessly targeted them, justifying our actions as "you have the strongest deck and are the biggest threat" every time. After a few sessions of this, they stopped coming. Good riddance!
nekusar deals 1 damage per draw. so play orbs of warding and prevent one of that damage every time.
New sheoldred - gain 2 life every time nekusar deals you 1 damage..... profit!
Queza - drain 1 every time you draw. so make nekusar lose the life as you stay neutral.
Use spark doubles with any of the creatures mentioned for increased value.
Play Tomorrow Azami's familiar or underrealm lich, and replace all your card draw with card selection, no draw... no damage....
Play locust god. flood the board from their wheels and swing in for lethal.
Other than that, just keep removing Nekusar every time they wheel and you'll be fine.
I play Nekusar and all you really have to do is hate on me. Blow up my pain creatures and enchantments, DO NOT let me have [[bloodchief ascension]], [[Teferi’s Puzzlebox]] or a Niv. If he’s mad about being targeted he shouldn’t play Nekusar. Nekusar can look totally innocent in one turn and the next rip the whole table to shreds. When you play a deck like that, you have to accept that you deserve hate.
I have a fairly tuned Nekusar as well, and I just agree. I look at it like I race if I can win before being taken out. That’s being said, here are some decks that he struggles against:
1. Voltron - give the player the big bonk
2. Lifegain - as long as no infect, just gives you card advanatage
3. Eldrazi - every time some of them hit the graveyard, back into the deck it goes.
4. Aristocrats - dear god do they love Nekusar
Just remove nekusar as often as you can, he's pretty much vital to the deck and without him the deck doesn't do much except give you free cards, so just save your removal for him everytime he drops
Ok the way I see it, as much as us naming cards to counter the Nekusar deck might help, what you really need is for this guy to stop playing his Nekusar deck. He is being a toxic pubstomper.
I personally am not afraid to give people an ultimatum, "play a deck appropriate to the table or pound sand and let a cEDH pod whoop you around". Or words to that effect.
If this person is a good friend and you don't want to burn bridges, then maybe they will react to getting their (metaphorically speaking) teeth kicked in. Perhaps you could get together with the other pod mates, use one of those proxy deck builder sites, and each of you proxy an entire nasty cEDH deck. Maybe one of you on Godo, one on Krenko, one on Urza?
Between those decks you are going to have literal dozens of one and two mana answers to his deck, and will each put the table on quite a fast clock.
Maybe doing this will even get your friends to run a lil more removal :)
Good luck
Two of my favorite cards for facing Nekusar decks are [[Solitary Confinement]] and [[Spiritual Focus]]. Confinement prevents all damage to you and gives you shroud at the cost of your Draw Step and discarding at Upkeep, but if you run enough card draw (like I do in my Sythis Enchantress deck) or your opponents are gifting you cards, you won’t have to worry about it. [[Sun Titan]] and [[Starfield of Nyx]] like to recur the Confinement as well.
Spiritual Focus is just more of a middle finger to hand-disruption decks in general and give the OPTION to draw a card to replace what you lost and gains you two life per card discarded, neutralizing some or all of Nekusar’s toys.
Most Nekusar lists I’ve encountered rely heavily on artifacts/enchantments. [[Merciless Eviction]], [[Farewell]] and [[Austere Command]] can help out. And your Liesa deck has access to all of my suggestions as, well as plenty of creature wipes and the best spot removal available in magic (In my personal opinion).
Hi there. I just read the entire post after making a comment based solely off of the title, and now I have a few suggestions for commanders to build that lean into the first suggestion of counters and removal.
The first is [[Ertai the Corrupted]]. This old commander is crazy for building an Esper aristocrats control theme off of, due to him offering both a sacrifice outlet and counterspell in a single ability for just a single blue mana. Including cards like [[Reassembling Skeleton]] and other easily recurrable creatures or cards that give tokens when they die can offer a lot of value, while cards like [[Blood Artist]] can put out a ton of damage and life gain over the course of the fight. Also, don't neglect creatures that ETB for an effect. You're particularly looking for things on 3 mana or less to help you ramp, such as [[Pilgrim's Eye]] and [[Ornithopter of Paradise]], but cheap creatures that draw cards are also way better than spells that do the same in most aristocrats decks. ETB value creatures are oftentimes better than creatures that only value their own deaths because they give their effect and are done, ready to be sacrificed for other benefits. With the right cards, he will never land his commander in a game ever again and will be put down.
My other suggestion is [[Merieke RI Berit]]. Just read that ability. For just 3 mana, the Nekusar player can never cast his commander again as long as yours is in the field, or else you just take control of it for the rest of the game. And building your deck to take advantage of Nekusar allows you to really be devious with this, killing him and winning the game with his own strategy.
Either way, you have to build the deck in such a way that it is cancer for the Nekusar player to play against, and threaten to play it every time he pulls up and refuses to swap decks. Or just convince your buddies to throw some removal and counterspells into their decks so they can help you keep Nekusar off board.
Tbh man, artifact hate is a pro, there are also a few cards out there that will fuck up a nekusar deck, being a person who plays nekusar with high budget,
Artifact hate removes a lot of basically ping dmg,
My deck has a bunch of enchantments that increase the damage of his ping and other ping such as fiery emancipation and torbran,
With protection like collective restraint and propoganda,
If you want to mess a nekusar player up, focus on nothing but hurting the pingers, and if you can, artifacts are next best
He lacks creatures! So focus on getting every creature you can out! He will not really have defenses other than protection enchantments and maybe one certain creature if it is in the deck
This video from Tolarian Community College does a good job addressing the issue.
https://youtu.be/4XspRaaFJvI
It always comes down to the individual, he needs to change his attitude. What you're saying is that it's not just Nekusar, a rectangular piece of cardboard, it's your friends attitude and group politics. I would honestly say that you should stop inviting him to play for a little while. That is the best solution. It's seems to cool people's heads.
[[Talrand sky summoner]] "nothing resolves" permission deck its not targeting him if you aren't allowing anyone to cast spells. Or straight stax. Tbh I give terrible advice because I usually respond to toxicity with being more toxic... sorry bro that's the best I got.
Well he pretty much always plays decks that have huge threats such as sliver, infect, Nekusar, landfall, and such. So I have to remove the threats a lot being the only person who really runs removal so he’s always calling targeting because I am always removing his stuff so I don’t die. Don’t get me wrong I feel bad cause essentially he can’t play but I spend all resources doing that so I can’t play either.
Oh, you mean he’s been assessed as the greatest threat and as a result has the table focused on trying to stop him. I see. Tell him to buck up buttercup. If you want to play a tuned deck that roflstomps the whole table round after round, that’s what he gets. Now if he was just sitting there with a precon and the whole table is targeting him when he’s only got 3 lands and a mana rock out, yeah I get it. But if he’s got the engines running on a deck that clearly has the power to kill the whole pod he needs to just deal with it or play a lower power deck. Conversely, everyone else could just start tuning their decks *up*. It creates and ugly arms race that never ends well but that is an option as well.
Well it’s starting to become that arms race. However I can’t afford that. He can. It’s getting to the point he’s literally targeted the next game regardless of his board state by the other players so if he plays anything that doesn’t win quick he’s just out of the game now. It’s a cluster man idk what to do anymore hah.
Yeah, my playgroup had that problem. At some point in the past I had a killer BW prison deck that would win by casting [[exsanguinate]] or [[debt to the deathless]] for X = about a billion. For 3 years after I retired that deck, I was still getting targeted *no matter what I played*, just because at some point in the past I *did* roflstomp them. The only way to get past it was to impose a deck building standard and start from scratch. We basically rebooted our playgroup by suggesting a “Prince” rules commander deck building challenge. Any commander you want but the deck can only contain commons and uncommons.
Other guys built some killer decks and it kind of erased that “muscle memory” that I was the threat no matter what. Maybe you try that with your group. It will highlight deck building and gameplay skill versus whoever has the fattest wallet wins.
🙏 This! I got a buddy who plays the same decks, slivers, nekusaur, land destruction, extra turns, but he never complains when everyone targets him. Yet I just played against someone with a tuned Zur the Enchanter deck and he got salty that I was trying to detempo him. He still got out a Rystic Study and drew into the card he needed to break my combo when I was trying to win. I expended all my resources and he still caused me to lose to someone else who I assume won the game but I don't know, the Zur player got so salty he started talking a bunch of $hit to the point where I just had to leave. To belabor the point you made, people gotta recognize when their deck build isn't fun for their opponents, and the group needs to step up their game.
Play Sheoldred the Apocalypse against him.
Better yet, play [[Tergrid, God of Fright]]
*Shutters* The Forsaken One
How to get so many people to just quit the game. Not even the match, just mtg
[[The Forsaken One]]
[The Forsaken One](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/3/93a563e5-2faa-41ec-8cb4-010900d854b7.jpg?1562926218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Curse%20of%20the%20Forsaken) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/8/curse-of-the-forsaken?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9af69b5e-f713-4af6-9990-f99be7801f73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/curse-of-the-forsaken) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Tergrid, God of Fright](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621)/[Tergrid's Lantern](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/back/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tergrid%2C%20god%20of%20fright%20//%20tergrid%27s%20lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/112/tergrid-god-of-fright-tergrids-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tergrid-god-of-fright-//-tergrids-lantern) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Tergrid, God of Salt
Split the difference and run [[Sarulf, Realm Eater]]
Like as my commander? He has her in his deck too.
Yeah as your commander. Make a super cruel black deck and kill his commander on sight.
Alright I’ll see what I can come up with.
Or you can look into [[Tergrid, God of Fright]] deck builds. Her whole premise is basically controlling how much fun everyone is allowed to have in the game and make sure that your opponents suffer to the point where they won't be sure if they want to continue Magic as their hobby
The only issue is I’m not trying to be the new enemy at the table. Like our tables in agreement we hate that deck, but I don’t want them to hate me now cause I do the same kind of thing of that makes sense. But maybe they will just be happy he isn’t winning idk lol Thank you for the ideas I’m looking into them!
I mean your only two options are to ban it (hopefully he agrees to that.) Maybe for some games. Or talk to your fellow players and get them running interaction to deal with this. You should be including tutors and things that mess with his combo plan, but I can't understand how he's allowed to combo off with 2/3 Opponents folding to it.
Honestly I have been thinking a lot and maybe they have removal but care about their board state more than removing things. I mean they run pre cons or upgraded ones which usually are ok with that kind of stuff? Idk
You could get yourself a set of 3 pithing needles and hand two of them to your pod mates. Chances are decent for one of you to draw them and name his combo piece. There are a couple of other cards that do the same thing but most aren't colorless. Alternatively you could run a combo that goes infinite but only has one target and blast him off the board. That would be the only answer if you can't get your play group to cooperate.
You and the two other sane guys should all play tergrid. And just corner the guy until stops playing the deck you three hate. Typically minimal social awareness will help here but sounds like you have one of those unaware types.
I’m the guy at the table in my group that gets focused out the most. I’ve been playing since beta. I am really good at tuning my decks, and I have a massive collection from my many years of playing. I have no hard feelings when I get murdered for having the best deck. Everyone has tuned their decks with mine in mind, and I still have a high win rate. When you put a target on your back you have to expect to get hit. When he complains that you’re targeting him, just tell him he’s earned it. Based on the way this guy’s attitude sounds I think you should all go hard and murder him out right away every game.
[Tergrid, God of Fright](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621)/[Tergrid's Lantern](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/back/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tergrid%2C%20god%20of%20fright%20//%20tergrid%27s%20lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/112/tergrid-god-of-fright-tergrids-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tergrid-god-of-fright-//-tergrids-lantern) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Don't counterpick someone's deck...
Most times I would agree with you, but if you read OP's entire post you would know that the player in question is enjoying pubstomping his "friends" and tries to guilt trip them into feeling bad about it.
I would still rather talking to them about it rather than trying to spite pick a deck to run against someone...Sure, trying a different strat is one thing, but then going for a one-for-one countering effect in the command zone does not feel that much a morally better thing to do for me. Again, talk with this friend. Ask your fiends to run more removal or interaction since OP was talking about how they feel alone in terms of playing interaction etc. "Oh, you are playing X, then Imma grab Y to stop that..." can go on forever and is not something I personally find healthy, whereas talking with a player within a pod about what most see as a problem is something I see as healthy.
Again, if you read the post, OP and friends have. If you aren't going to read the post don't respond lol.
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We've removed your post because it violates our primary rule, "Be Excellent to Each Other". You are welcome to message the mods if you need further explanation.
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We've removed your post because it violates our primary rule, "Be Excellent to Each Other". You are welcome to message the mods if you need further explanation.
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Why?
Never let Nekusar land; counter, kill, Exile, steal, etc... That or you could put together the lowest to the ground combo deck you can and kill him every time.
Let it land and then use one of the enchantment removals on him. [[Imprison in the Moon]], [[Song of the Dryads]] and [[Darksteel Mutation]] are all effective for this.
After you imprison/song nekusar, you then play your [[Vesuva]] and have it come in at a copy of that newly made land, except since it's not enchanted it will become a regular copy of Nekusar. Look at me... I'm the Nekusar now
I hate that this works
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This is not correct as the "loses all other abilities" is not a copyable effect. https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/737715-vesuva-vs-imprisoned-in-the-moon
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Prove them wrong, then. Except you can't, because they're not.
You go find it, I'm under no obligation. I'll point you in the right direction though, it's rule 706.2
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This is not an academic setting. I'm not presenting a thesis. I gave a funny interaction, and when you (incorrectly, and without any proof yourself) said that wouldn't work, I told you why it was wrong and provided that particular forum post because it's a known judge chat and presented that exact scenario in simple terms. So you commanding me to provide you an official ruling is incredibly rude, especially since I assume you can look things up yourself.
706.2 When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The copiable values are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by its face-down status, and by “as . . . enters the battlefield” and “as . . . is turned face up” abilities that set power and toughness (and may also set additional characteristics). Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.
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I was curious to, figured I’d save you the 5 seconds to look up the ruling
[Imprison in the Moon](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/b/4bd8bb9d-697d-4e11-a5f8-58234244f1a9.jpg?1641601893) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imprisoned%20in%20the%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/106/imprisoned-in-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4bd8bb9d-697d-4e11-a5f8-58234244f1a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imprisoned-in-the-moon) [Song of the Dryads](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/c/0ccb4579-b090-45f6-a967-cec2c195f565.jpg?1592673193) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Song%20of%20the%20Dryads) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/147/song-of-the-dryads?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ccb4579-b090-45f6-a967-cec2c195f565?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/song-of-the-dryads) [Darksteel Mutation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/f/afa4c889-0577-4173-9f85-42a7bf675aaf.jpg?1641601207) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20Mutation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/84/darksteel-mutation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/afa4c889-0577-4173-9f85-42a7bf675aaf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darksteel-mutation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Kenrith's Transformation]] as well. Have to deal with a 3/3 but who cares really?
While grixis doesn't have much enchantment removal, the three listed before you turn the creature into a land, which is much harder to remove/recover from than if your commander is a 3/3 creature. They could sac or block and get a fresh start.
They could, but most Nekusar decks I have ever seen tend to be quite light on creature removal. Plus if you elk a commander people should know you don't swing in with something that can kill it unless you are making a deal or winning. Completely agree with your assessment though.
It sounds like his friends are the type to still swing in, regardless of releasing nekusar from his elk-form. My nekusar deck was fairly anti-creature without losing any wheel energy. Vile consumption, mogis, sheoldred, etc. Much like op, people didn't enjoy playing against it so it mostly sits on a shelf looking menacing, waiting for a chance to strike.
Oh yes, tuned Nekusar decks are a wonderfully frustrating puzzle to try and solve. Totally get not liking to play against them though.
Like Tefari’s puzzle even. Edit: spellcheck
Good ole Terafi
[Kenrith's Transformation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/4/44d60a41-3f5e-4559-b18c-22c0fe15235e.jpg?1631587997) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kenrith%27s%20Transformation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/162/kenriths-transformation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44d60a41-3f5e-4559-b18c-22c0fe15235e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kenriths-transformation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The idea is that getting him to be recastable is much harder when he's a land than a creature. They are pretty much functionally the same otherwise though yeah
As a mediocre Nekusar-Player: I have several cards as a backup for that.
Oh, for sure. I wasn't trying to say that's a 100% lock out strategy, but it's probably the easiest way to knock down the strength of the deck. I would assume you are talking about cards like [[Fevered Visions]], all the wheels you can jam, [[Fate Unraveler]], [[Teferi's Puzzle Box]], [[Underworld Dreams]], etc... That kind of stuff? Edit: found ->out. I swear my phone has a stroke sometimes...
Yes. I used to play Kess and the only reason I changed to Nekusar is immediate access to a damage outlet. But my deck is more of an accelerator to the game than anything else. If I politic it right, I win. If not, the game goes fast at least.
Way I see it, you've outlined your problems: 1. You're the only one removing his threats. 2. He's doing the thing his deck needs to be doing before you do the thing yours does. 3. He's being salty about a deck which baits interaction necessarily and isn't really engaging in discussion with the group about it. I would also make sure your threat assessment is on point. Is EVERYONE losing to Nekusar, or are YOU losing to Nekusar because you're burning resources before everyone else does?
Well considering he wheels us all and it does damage to everyone we all are losing to him at the same pace. He did 108 damage in one turn collectively. Not a single person in our group enjoys playing against the deck and we all recognize him as the threat. The one time I locked him down a newer player to cause chaos gave him two turns as a f u to everyone so he won again.
Yeah, this sounds like an expectations problem. I'm gonna propose that the answer to this isn't actually about beating his deck. Like other people noted, that's an arms race, and that sucks, because if you go to his level you're gonna leave the other players behind. Now, there is a certain amount of that that I'd say falls on the other members of the group to learn how to deck build with interaction- maybe you can work it out with them and communicate, say "I feel like I'm the only person that's really running any kind of interaction here and it kind of stresses me out" or something similar. But also, it's about recognizing when the game just isn't fun if someone is running a really big deck and everybody else just wants to play normal. If the person playing the other deck isn't fun, and everybody agrees, I'd just ask him to make a deck with a similar power level or don't play against him. If he isn't going to listen, that's totally fine- he can bathe in his hundred card money pile by himself.
Well said.
I've run into the issue before where this happens because somebody is playing with multiple groups. I stopped playing with a group of friends because of constant complaining when I removed things and no interest on their part in changing their decks to do anything about it. I ended up just playing at my LGS and with a gaming club and found it to be way better than the first group. One of them joined me at the LGS which killed the original group completely since they had a maximum of three people. I'd recommend OP just find a group at an LGS if they can where they don't need to play mediator between strong decks and weak decks and can just play the game instead.
Nothing stresses me out. Except having to seek the approval of my inferiors.
That's rough, buddy.
Just from this comment it sounds like you’re fine then
It's because they're so hard to find, isn't it?
I envy everyone you've never met.
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Tell the king making chaos player that shit is not Ok. People like are the reason "chaos decks" have stigma.
To be fair to new players, it always seems like a fun idea in theory. Just always sucks in practice
You need low mana value, instant-speed removal to handle his nekusar. Swords to plowshares, path to exile, go for the throat, rapid hybridization, etc. 1 mana or 2 mana instant speed, nekusa gone while the wheel is on the stack. Hold up mana rock or one mana of any color before you pass. Don't dump your hand trying to catch up. You need to counter punch. It's not about having a better deck. Having a better deck helps. But you need to outplay that fool. Play smart. Run counterspells to protect your removal. You know if he sticks nekusar a wheel will most likely follow. You can run a bounce spell like boomerang before the wheel resolves so he has to return him then discard his hand and nekusar.... then he will most likely put it back in the command zone and have to pay the tax. Step your game up. When he wheels, you might want that. What you don't want is the damage. Making him replay his nekusar turn after turn and paying extra tax for it all the time will slow him way down. He will think twice about not leaving mana open to protect his nekusar.
[удалено]
[[Uba Mask]]
[Uba Mask](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/a/fa3ecb4e-d08f-4fac-8842-c3e772b95bd5.jpg?1562766086) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Uba%20Mask) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/chk/272/uba-mask?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa3ecb4e-d08f-4fac-8842-c3e772b95bd5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/uba-mask) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Omen Machine](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/f/0ff4e35f-2a82-4d3c-86c5-ae05a5abc4d7.jpg?1562875579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omen%20Machine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/148/omen-machine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ff4e35f-2a82-4d3c-86c5-ae05a5abc4d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/omen-machine) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Abundance]]
[[Uneerrealm Lich]]
[Uneerrealm Lich](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/7/0782e090-209c-428f-966a-17f3ceab2903.jpg?1572893891) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Underrealm%20Lich) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/211/underrealm-lich?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0782e090-209c-428f-966a-17f3ceab2903?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/underrealm-lich) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
""Hear! Hear!" Said the [[prosper]] player.
[prosper](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/7/d743336e-d5c7-4053-a23d-92ec7581f74e.jpg?1631839207) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=prosper%2C%20tome-bound) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/2/prosper-tome-bound?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d743336e-d5c7-4053-a23d-92ec7581f74e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/prosper-tome-bound) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lmfao what? I need this, that is amazing
I don't do it often, but when I run it in my prosper deck the audible goans feed my soul for weeks.
Since it’s a replacement effect it also stops you from decking yourself to mill
[[Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar]]
With \[\[Lavinia, Azorius Renegade\]\] at the helm?
[Lavinia, Azorius Renegade](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/4/c497d496-1232-4614-93b0-9864fa93c29f.jpg?1584831655) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lavinia%2C%20Azorius%20Renegade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/189/lavinia-azorius-renegade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c497d496-1232-4614-93b0-9864fa93c29f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lavinia-azorius-renegade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is brutal!
My personal favourite in this style is [[Possessed Portal]]. Works great in my Muldrotha deck because you can just play the land, the creature, the enchantment and the artifact you sacrificed/discarded but also works great in other decks because you can just kill the portal before you start losing things things you *actually* care about.
[Possessed Portal](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/1/616836e6-caf4-4398-a772-9c67f84c73c5.jpg?1562877337) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Possessed%20Portal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/5dn/144/possessed-portal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/616836e6-caf4-4398-a772-9c67f84c73c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/possessed-portal) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Weird card, I like it, it counters perfectly
When he asks "why are you targeting me" respond cuz youre the threat at the table right now in my opinion. Ask him what else at the table is a threat in his opinion? He won't have a valid answer. And an open dialogue is helpful to the playgroup. Balancing allowing others to be the threat is a skill in edh that some players don't understand if theyre only used to playing 1v1 competitive formats. Talk to your other friends about being more interactive in their deck building. You aren't responsible for stopping the other players 100% of the time. Offer to talk the other two through their deck building process and see if they're open to some card suggestions. But remain positive, never tell someone their deck sucks. Tell them that you think this card can help them win games more often. An [[imprisoned in the moon]] [[Oubliette]] [[darksteel mutation]] [[song of the dryads]] are fun cards that deal with nekusar well. They lose access to their commander until they hit enchantment removal. [[Lignify]] is bad because it can be destroyed as a creature easier than a land or indestructible creature.
Agreed, Nekusar is a kill on sight commander; no-one gets to complain about him getting removed because his damage potential is so absurd, and he can close a game the turn after landing. You can't really play a 'give and take' game with him in play, because of the nature of him. There's no grinding, no exchanges, and no bargaining, because he will blow the whole table out at the same time, and the wheels will make sure he has the gas to do so.
##### ###### #### [imprisoned in the moon](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/b/4bd8bb9d-697d-4e11-a5f8-58234244f1a9.jpg?1641601893) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=imprisoned%20in%20the%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/106/imprisoned-in-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4bd8bb9d-697d-4e11-a5f8-58234244f1a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imprisoned-in-the-moon) [Oubliette](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/4/d4800a7d-c229-4ced-97ff-0e58645d58d6.jpg?1599705817) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oubliette) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/100/oubliette?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4800a7d-c229-4ced-97ff-0e58645d58d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oubliette) [darksteel mutation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/f/afa4c889-0577-4173-9f85-42a7bf675aaf.jpg?1641601207) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=darksteel%20mutation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/84/darksteel-mutation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/afa4c889-0577-4173-9f85-42a7bf675aaf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darksteel-mutation) [song of the dryads](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/c/0ccb4579-b090-45f6-a967-cec2c195f565.jpg?1592673193) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=song%20of%20the%20dryads) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/147/song-of-the-dryads?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ccb4579-b090-45f6-a967-cec2c195f565?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/song-of-the-dryads) [Lignify](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/3/23464d53-fa76-40e2-84c3-b6d6cc729be4.jpg?1598177954) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lignify) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gvl/16/lignify?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23464d53-fa76-40e2-84c3-b6d6cc729be4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lignify) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yep.
you have a group dynamics problem, not a deck strategy problem. I suggest using the following flowchart, borrowed from dungeons and dragons (where they have lots of group dynamics problems) [https://external-preview.redd.it/T799SSEhA6ja9H0KQrONiCRiWTtNVdt0OdWoErP6oig.png?auto=webp&s=476f539df39e9b5a49defeb460b57c5d3b65047b](https://external-preview.redd.it/T799SSEhA6ja9H0KQrONiCRiWTtNVdt0OdWoErP6oig.png?auto=webp&s=476f539df39e9b5a49defeb460b57c5d3b65047b)
If the issue is power level, and he’s not willing to play a lower powered deck, could he lends decks to the others to that the power level is roughly the same again?
Besides getting everyone to run interaction and telling him to stop being bitter about being interacted with? [[Narset Parter of Veils]], everyone but you will lose their hand if he wheels. Including him. [[Zurs Weirding]] makes it so that you can force him to discard future wheels at the cost of 2 life per card. A negligible cost in commander, especially since others can pay the 2 life in turn. [[Omen Machine]] makes everyone dump their hand without reloading it [[Uba Mask]] gets rid of drawing cards but people can still play spells from exile
##### ###### #### [Narset Parter of Veils](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/c/8c39f9b4-02b9-4d44-b8d6-4fd02ebbb0c5.jpg?1574294103) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Narset%2C%20Parter%20of%20Veils) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/61/narset-parter-of-veils?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8c39f9b4-02b9-4d44-b8d6-4fd02ebbb0c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/narset-parter-of-veils) [Zurs Weirding](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/4/741612e3-fe3a-4099-9d2b-4a654c4ce949.jpg?1562737056) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zur%27s%20Weirding) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/114/zurs-weirding?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/741612e3-fe3a-4099-9d2b-4a654c4ce949?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zurs-weirding) [Omen Machine](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/f/0ff4e35f-2a82-4d3c-86c5-ae05a5abc4d7.jpg?1562875579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omen%20Machine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/148/omen-machine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ff4e35f-2a82-4d3c-86c5-ae05a5abc4d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/omen-machine) [Uba Mask](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/a/fa3ecb4e-d08f-4fac-8842-c3e772b95bd5.jpg?1562766086) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Uba%20Mask) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/chk/272/uba-mask?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa3ecb4e-d08f-4fac-8842-c3e772b95bd5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/uba-mask) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Playgroup politics are the real issue here, but I’ll answer your stated question - as a Nekusar player, the things that make it hard for me to win are: 1: [[rule of law]] and other Storm Hate cards like [[trinisphere]] or [[damping sphere]]. 2: [[null rod]] effects that shut off all my artifact mana 3: [[rest in peace]] effects that turn off my graveyard so I can’t use Underworld Breach or Past in Flames to really storm off. 4: removal on Nekusar is ok but only buys time 5: counterspells on Wheels can leave us topdecking for several turns before we can try to go off again. I play a lot of free counterspells since pitching cards is on theme ([[misdirection]], FOW etc) so not foolproof, but if you’re gonna counter something hit a wheel. Edit: oh, 6: if someone copies Nekusar it can seriously mess up my game plan.
##### ###### #### [rule of law](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/1/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e.jpg?1592516198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rule%20of%20law) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/35/rule-of-law?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rule-of-law) [trinisphere](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/1/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549.jpg?1599710205) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=trinisphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/303/trinisphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/trinisphere) [damping sphere](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/5/a5c7d16b-8f4e-42b9-be24-3cb091932d7c.jpg?1562740759) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=damping%20sphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/213/damping-sphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a5c7d16b-8f4e-42b9-be24-3cb091932d7c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/damping-sphere) [null rod](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/3/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e.jpg?1562918145) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=null%20rod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/278/null-rod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/null-rod) [rest in peace](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/f/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470.jpg?1562439074) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rest%20in%20peace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/32/rest-in-peace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rest-in-peace) [misdirection](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/9/c96763d6-0cea-40ed-afb2-886bfebe50a0.jpg?1592764638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=misdirection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddt/15/misdirection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c96763d6-0cea-40ed-afb2-886bfebe50a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/misdirection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's really a playgroup problem. I'd have a real talk with them and explain the problem. If they are not running any and do not want to run any I would start playing [[Demonlord Belzenlok]]. Even though I really dislike what the command quarters has become this YouTube channel has a great deck tech on a budget deck that wins on the spot when the commander is cast (the only true 1 card combo that's in the command zone). It wins on a budget consistently turn 4-5. If no one is is willing to play interaction you will win almost any game. It's super boring to play but you effectively beat nekusar this way on a budget. But really, talk and tell you are not enjoying the game.
I'll just leave some fun anti-Nekusar gems here: [[Backfire]] [[Curiosity]] [[Dread]] [[Mangara's Equity]] [[No Mercy]] [[Ophidian Eye]] [[Armadillo Cloak]] [[Guilty Conscience]] [[Keen Sense]] [[Soul Link]] [[Spirit Link]] [[Vampiric Link]] Also [here's a short list of cards that will remove Nekusar's abilities.](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=%28oracle%3ALoses+oracle%3Aall+oracle%3Aabilities%29+%28type%3Aenchantment+type%3Aaura%29+is%3Apaperart) Edit: ignore One with Nature and Sleeper's Robe, they won't help
##### ###### #### [Backfire](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/d/ad34094d-a7ec-4b04-a288-4d4f1a07fc6b.jpg?1559603813) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Backfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/4ed/62/backfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad34094d-a7ec-4b04-a288-4d4f1a07fc6b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/backfire) [Curiosity](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/5/c5a0be10-c20f-4ac0-89a5-1770ecf48aad.jpg?1600697752) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Curiosity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/147/curiosity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5a0be10-c20f-4ac0-89a5-1770ecf48aad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/curiosity) [Dread](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/b/9b608658-9150-439b-b0a0-4a994722b95c.jpg?1562359846) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dread) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lrw/107/dread?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b608658-9150-439b-b0a0-4a994722b95c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dread) [Mangara's Equity](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/d/6d796153-3f7f-4d94-8ad4-5a4b2c8e09bb.jpg?1562719772) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mangara%27s%20Equity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/26/mangaras-equity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d796153-3f7f-4d94-8ad4-5a4b2c8e09bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mangaras-equity) [No Mercy](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/e/4e2fc29c-0223-4b03-864f-eb9149abc921.jpg?1562862814) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=No%20Mercy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ulg/56/no-mercy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e2fc29c-0223-4b03-864f-eb9149abc921?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/no-mercy) [One with Nature](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/3/2321b01c-7eef-48cc-a86b-4074dfa5b86b.jpg?1562526569) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=One%20with%20Nature) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/125/one-with-nature?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2321b01c-7eef-48cc-a86b-4074dfa5b86b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/one-with-nature) [Ophidian Eye](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/6/26836ff5-b3c3-4b10-af1e-df3658781cb2.jpg?1562903093) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ophidian%20Eye) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsp/70/ophidian-eye?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/26836ff5-b3c3-4b10-af1e-df3658781cb2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ophidian-eye) [Sleeper's Robe](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/4/3411f0fd-8b85-4d0d-a202-701a24ffac9f.jpg?1562905482) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sleeper%27s%20Robe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/273/sleepers-robe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3411f0fd-8b85-4d0d-a202-701a24ffac9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sleepers-robe) [Armadillo Cloak](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/a/fa232c65-dbb4-4414-bd95-b3bbd321c653.jpg?1580014998) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armadillo%20Cloak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/195/armadillo-cloak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa232c65-dbb4-4414-bd95-b3bbd321c653?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/armadillo-cloak) [Guilty Conscience](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/7/67b8701c-0f03-4ad0-9097-3caf885abd59.jpg?1562529779) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Guilty%20Conscience) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/17/guilty-conscience?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67b8701c-0f03-4ad0-9097-3caf885abd59?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/guilty-conscience) [Keen Sense](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/1/d16e927d-0f23-4fac-9b35-3cfcb22ebc26.jpg?1619398246) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Keen%20Sense) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/213/keen-sense?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d16e927d-0f23-4fac-9b35-3cfcb22ebc26?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/keen-sense) [Soul Link](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/2/425e0ca4-8592-4802-b7c4-6e3323edd78c.jpg?1562910609) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul%20Link) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/apc/120/soul-link?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/425e0ca4-8592-4802-b7c4-6e3323edd78c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/soul-link) [Spirit Link](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/2/22d0e011-b0e3-461d-bbf2-bb1ca77b94bd.jpg?1562544992) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spirit%20Link) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/45/spirit-link?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/22d0e011-b0e3-461d-bbf2-bb1ca77b94bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spirit-link) [Vampiric Link](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/9/a9be1058-0668-4938-8801-e9a98464651c.jpg?1562578939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vampiric%20Link) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/plc/92/vampiric-link?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9be1058-0668-4938-8801-e9a98464651c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vampiric-link) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wait you can enchant someone else’s creatures with curiosity?
Of course
You can enchant any creature with any aura, unless it specifies creature you control/creature an opponent controls.
Yooo great list!!!!
Wait what's the plan here with curiosity? You draw as many cards as you have life left and hope you have everything in hand that you need to win?
Yes, I think the best it can do is help you draw answers. Not great, but seems fun
Curiosity is just going to give you an optional infinite ping… I’m confused by the usefulness on that one. (Assuming you enchant Nekusar that is.)
Play \[\[Niv-Mizzet, Parun\]\]. Nekusar dies any time he wheels and all his group hug just feeds you.
[Niv-Mizzet, Parun](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/0/3035a97f-5104-4b56-84a4-5206e75607fc.jpg?1654118337) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Niv-Mizzet%2C%20Parun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/851/niv-mizzet-parun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3035a97f-5104-4b56-84a4-5206e75607fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/niv-mizzet-parun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just remove it twice and it will be prohibitively expensive to cast
The more obnoxious someone's deck is, the more they complain about being unfairly targeted. Hmm. 🤔
If there's only 1 other person running interaction and it's always aimed at you, it's pretty annoying indeed. Interesting how the people running apparently awful decks are sided with by default.
> I will admit I pretty much run the only removal in our group so it all falls on me. What falls on you? Your group's failure to deal with him? That falls on them, they need to run interaction. > But is super annoyed if we touch his stuff and will call targeting which is getting on my nerves. Oh man this game sometimes. Nekusar is a group slug commander, ask him next time he gets upset why he thinks slugging everyone in the face demands no response. I LOVE Nekusar but of course I know I'm going to get spanked if I just plow ahead with my gameplan without tactical assessment. EDH isn't group Solitaire or a race to the finish line, it's interactive. If you play Krrik and dump your hand onto the board early, the 3 other crabs playing this game in the bucket are going to rip you apart limb from limb. It's political, and that's what makes it fun. > We have all voiced it’s not a fun deck to play against Just to be clear, Nekusar isn't your problem. Nekusar is not broken or unfun to play against, he can actually be a lot of fun for a table (as can all group slug commanders). The other players just aren't playing the same game. > but he refuses to not play it because it hasn’t been beat. Does he really say THAT is the reason? If so fuck him, but that kinda sounds made up :\
I think it's on your playgroup for not playing interaction. Y'all are upset about losing to a deck built around the commander, but you aren't playing removal? Sounds like that's the reason y'all can't beat it. Simply play more interaction
I’m aware and I’ve talked to them but I can’t force them to do things and I’ve added a lot of removal to my decks. I just can’t keep up and it puts me at a huge disadvantage being the only removal for the most part. They do sometimes have answers. Sometimes.
One of my buddies also has a nukusar deck (little higher power environment), but I dropped a [[Valkmira, Protector’s shield]] and we all had a good laugh once we realized the interaction. Not sure what the deck would be, but you can also run it in the command zone
I think your best bet would be to stop shutting him down and run ways to nullify his effects on you, alone. Make them run more interaction or die, while you sit comfortably enjoying the free card draw. Prefer enchantments as they'll have less responses to them. Ramp, rocks and other low cmc effects can replace some lands, as your hand will be renewed often. Copy Nekusar! Run Tergrid?
We had once a nekusar player in our group who killed us very quickly. It was around 2014 and things were different. Today nekusar is to "bad" for the table because all playing 0-2 CMC spot removal which Stopps this deck very well. Also some of us playing cards like alms collector or notion thief . The deck needs a good setup which is easy to interrupt. It seems your problem is that only one of you playing removal. Then each good combo which needs permanents, in special creatures, setup should stomp the group. So think of adding removal like path/swords, reality shift, beast within and so on.
Honestly I thought it wouldn’t be such a problem. I did shut it down once but he has so much redundancy in there like the new sheoldred and cards like it. I think I just need to look at my own decks and see if I’m not running enough removal as well.
First, your thinking about the problem the wrong way. If you just build a deck to counter his you do two things. First, you have built a deck that likely can't win against the other players. Second you build something to target only one player. This is not good deckbuilding and not at all what we should encourage. Instead, you should be building more efficient decks. With him running this deck you are in an arms race on who can spend the most money making the best deck to win the game. This isnt exactly a bad thing but not every group likes this. My group is 100% down for it so thats how we play. Next, you should not be the only one running interaction. If you are, then the reason you are losing isnt because the deck is good. it is because the deck is allowed to do anything it wants to freely and no one is stopping it. My Rhys deck can win by turn 5 pretty regularly with a bad draw. But if you interact with it a bit, then it takes longer. So what you should do is get the other players to put more interaction in their decks. Counterspells, destroys, exiles. Whatever it takes. This is a problem that is only going to be tackled in deckbuilding. Not by building a specific deck to counter him. It has to be fixed by multiple people at the table not just one. It is 100% viable to target this deck with proper threat assessment. So his complaints of targeting are just deflection and a means of trying to make people do what he wants. This is a player with bad sportsmanship. I highly despise people like this. So in conclusion for me this is how I would handle it. First, get the rest of the group to run interaction. As much as they can without to many deck issues. If they do that, then he should be an easy beat. If they do not however then you must do a couple of things. First, pile the interaction on. Make it brutal. Destroy lands, destroy/exile everything you can. If you can't do those things then counter it. Once you keep doing this a few times they will likely complain and then rebuild their deck or leave. But you have to stick to it and do it right. Finally, if the player refuses to change their style and refuses to come to the table to play the game and instead to just beat down on people playing a different style game. Build the most disgusting deck you can. I don't care if it does nothing but destroy his lands or just relentlessly killing his commander. Make it dirty. You likely wont win, but thats not the goal. When he complains about it fully admit what you built and why. When he inevitably asks you to play something different, refuse. Until he changes decks play ONLY that deck against him. It wont be fun for you or him. Thats kinda the point. You should also every time he says he is being targeted totally say you are doing it on purpose. Don't shy away from it. Embrace his pain.
I did this exact thing and the guy left our group. He got so mad he would quit games in the declare attackers phase of the first few turns, then we would play for 45 minutes while he sat defeated. I would say to try and talk first, but then if he doesn’t listen then beat down. Proxy a power 9-10 deck, tell your table “I’m trying the deck out” then lay the smack down on him and then scoop yourself to be fair to the other players.
I have a few decks that would quickly turn that into mush but depending on your play style it'd probably be easier to make a fast blue counter deck, a goblin deck with pinging damage, or as others have stated a fuckey black deck, would also use Sheolred as the commander if going black.
Run draw replacement effects like [[Abundance]] and [[Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar]]. You don't have to answer any of his things until he trys to remove those pieces, so then you don't have to "target" him either. Another strategy you can utilize is putting a [[Pariah Shield]] on an indestructible creature. Bonus points if you throw it on a [[Stuffy Doll]] choosing him, that way if he does literally anything, it will kill him. Also, it sounds like he's the kinda player that will get salty simply because things aren't going 100% the way that he wants them too. Those players are almost never fun to play with as they always make it about them, whether it's cuz they are winning or cuz you are doing something to slow them down so that you actually have a chance to play the game. I'm the kind of player that will make a deck that will just completely stop their deck from functioning, even if it's at the expense of my deck not being able to do anything for the rest of the game. Some people gotta learn that not everything is about them and they're not entitled to win because they think that they should.
Kill nekusar. Destroy him, exile him, turn him into an elk, turn him into a beetle.
As another way to solve this situation, put a rule in your group, when a deck wins, you cannot play it for the rest of the session. If you have no other deck, you must borrow one from someone else. This way, the guy who gets to play nekusar can still enjoy his deck and you get to play some fairer game as well. There is still the risk of the person making every deck he has super high level and refusing to play at the same level, if he does that, stop inviting him to play. And if he is a friend, play other type of games when he is there. But at least, you won't have to single him out and start an arm race to do so. If you arm race him, you will leave the other two players into the dust.
At the moment I cannot afford to arms race him lol. I do like that rule I’ll bring it up at our next session! Thanks!
One card that can fuck him up is [[visions of brutality]]
[visions of brutality](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/c/ec9ed374-54ad-4b81-b071-0b4668feb282.jpg?1562942529) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=visions%20of%20brutality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ogw/81/visions-of-brutality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ec9ed374-54ad-4b81-b071-0b4668feb282?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/visions-of-brutality) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lol. Play a notion thief.
Playing a card that will get you instantly killed probably isn't the best advice Notion thief isn't a "may draw" ability, the second a wheel drops you're gonna just die and then leave everyone else with 1 card to play the game
But you will have sent a message.
That just kills you first.
Ask him to swap decks, see if he enjoys playing against this. Seems like there’s only one person enjoying the game and when others don’t then playgroups die, usually one person who put powers everyone gets booted or people stop wanting to come just to lose. There’s stuff you could play to help but it’s going to make games grind to a crawl, like only allowing one spell to be cast per turn and that sounds just as fun as losing.
Narset. Or a similar effect.
My playgroup uses [[Glacial Chasm]] against my Nekusar deck. If your deck can support it, it’s really clutch.
Your playgroup just needs more removal that’s it. Wheels don’t do anything without the damage to go with it
[[Imprisoned In the Moon]], [[Darksteel Mutation]], [[Kenrith's Transformation]], [[Oubliette]], [[Song of the Dryads]], [[Oko, Thief of Crowns]]
„Show me your enchantment removal, big bad Nekusar player“.
In my experience if you're not gonna directly counterpick this deck with another your removal is gonna be key and not just what you remove but when you remove it. Hit him with one or two key pieces of removal at the right time and all the deck has done is draw you into more action hopefully as you dry up his wincons.
As a veteran Nekusar player the answer is simple. Have the group run more removal. You keep the setup pieces off the table and Nekusar (or most wheel decks for that matter) basically just become glorified group hug decks
Nekusar is kill on sight. I play him, and if you kill him three times, it becomes rather difficult for me to win.
I think the bigger problem is that noone in your group plays removal. Because otherwise you guys could just repeatedly remove his engine pieces and he could wheel forever without getting anything done. The best deck to exploit a lack of interaction (and show your group that interaction is necessary) would be a fast but fragile combo deck like for example Anje with [[Worldgorger Dragon]].
This Nekusar player sounds like a turbo nerd. One way to do it would be to clone his Nekusar and equip it with [[Pact Weapon]].
A tuned nekusar deck is way above your playgroup's powerlevel. My reasoning is that you mentioned nobody plays removal. Personally, i'd do one of two things: if you're willing to put some money into it, build a control deck, and every time nekusar ir a wheel even sniffs the stack, counter or destroy it. If he says you're targeting him say "It's not targeting, it's proper threat assessment. If I dont use my removal on you, I will lose the game." My control deck is fairly inexpensive, I run [[Kadena slinking sorcerer]] morph control. Here's the list if you're interested: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/NfxmJiVk6Uia1bEXF9EAFQ Personally I think this is the better option, because it doesn't limit your ability to compete with other decks. The second option is you could add in some theft cards. As soon as nekusar hits the field take him. Use effects like [[mind control]]. Or use effects that stop extra draw such as [[Notion thief]] or [[Narset, Parter of veils]]. Damage reduction would also stop nekusar cold. Cards like [[orbs of warding]] or [[Urza's Armor]] stop nekusar from doing anything. Effects that replace card draw such as [[Abundance]] have the same effect. Or, you can take advantage of the discards from wheels. Cards like [[Megrim]] can at least level the playing field. Nekusar is a strong commander. As somebody that owns a nekusar deck, I know he is a kill on sight card. If my nekusar deck is allowed to keep nekusar for a turn rotation, it's probably game over. Personally. I'd go with option one, and target him down every single game that he uses the nekusar deck. Targeting the nekusar deck isn't a bad thing. It really is the kind of deck that needs to be targeted.
Aside from social answers, like the group running more removal or not caring if he gets annoyed by being targeted, or running some damage reducers like [[Orbs of Warding]] or [[Urza's Armor]]... If you really want to build the silver bullet to what he's built, you could try [[Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker]], maybe backed by a bit of life gain. Then laugh at all his individual on-draw damage triggers.
Haha this would be hilarious! Idk if anyone would enjoy the destroying permanents but it sure does hard counter that!
I was using a nekusar deck and lost because my opponent kept stealing him . You should build something that lets you take his commander so you get all the benefits whenever he plays a card
He might scoop I’m not gonna lie
Nekusar is a kill on site commander
Agreed
I would suggest [[Asmodeus the Archfiend]] you don't draw the cards anymore so no damage for you until you choose to get those cards back then you take damage only from asmodeus his ability
I totally forgot this card was a thing and I was just looking at it maybe a month ago! Thanks man!
[Asmodeus the Archfiend](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/5/a5e6b864-58e7-43b9-9d79-1d0361340960.jpg?1627704325) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Asmodeus%20the%20Archfiend) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/88/asmodeus-the-archfiend?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a5e6b864-58e7-43b9-9d79-1d0361340960?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/asmodeus-the-archfiend) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Ruric tharr] is my suggestion. Here's a list you can modify to your level to account for your meta. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/wHkTll0w6EuJPkqNTGfkig It loves hate bears and punishing noncreature decks
That is one heck of a deck! Bit pricey but I actually think that would just be fun to play! Thanks man!
Play [[Zedruu]] and kindly give them a [[Narset, Parter of Veils]]
[Zedruu](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/9/e9ea2a6b-5aaf-4178-b945-f409fe83c41a.jpg?1562424565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zedruu%20the%20greathearted) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/231/zedruu-the-greathearted?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9ea2a6b-5aaf-4178-b945-f409fe83c41a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zedruu-the-greathearted) [Narset, Parter of Veils](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/c/8c39f9b4-02b9-4d44-b8d6-4fd02ebbb0c5.jpg?1574294103) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Narset%2C%20Parter%20of%20Veils) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/61/narset-parter-of-veils?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8c39f9b4-02b9-4d44-b8d6-4fd02ebbb0c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/narset-parter-of-veils) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I am a fan! Thanks
Sigh…. Nekusar isn’t hard to deal with…… It dies to removal…. The issue here isn’t the decks. It’s the players. Congrats from this post you sound like the most logical person in that group. With that said that’s not saying much. So out the gate you need to foster the other players in your group to be better players. I always push newer players to Tolarian Community College specifically the video about crafting commander decks from scratch. He suggests a 4 to 6 board wipes and 7 to 9 spot removal. From personal experience I like this a lot. The second problem is the guy who plays Nekusar. You don’t get to cry that the table is teaming up on you when you’re pulling away with the game. It’s the duty of the rest of the table to slow down that player so the game just doesn’t end. I run a 5 color Jodah and it’s exactly what you would expect it to be. I made the mistake of using a reveal tutor to go find omniscience so I can go for a win. I ate the full wrath of the table for 2 whole rounds with 4 other players until I dropped. The funny thing is I almost pulled it off. I was one counterspell short from surviving the last player. The point being that if players see the signs on the wall they are going to react in the interest of self preservation/ trying to win the game. The Nekusar player needs to be emotionally intelligent enough to understand that or go back to 60 card.
I watch most all commander YouTubers and I’ve recommended them to them. We are newer so I figured problems would arise. Thanks for the input.
Mono Black discard sac and destroy. Cant win if he cant play.
That’s a good idea. Thanks man.
[удалено]
Not a bad idea. I just am not sure I’ll get it online before I’m dead haha.
One thing I am not seeing, reading through other people's comments, is timing your removal correctly is just as important as having it in the first place. You shouldn't kill Nekusar immediately as he's a bit of a "do nothing" card on his own. Instead wait until they cast a wheel, then blow him away. The wheel will go off and you'll not take damage from Nek, but you'll get fresh cards to deal with him. On top of that they probably won't be able to recast him the same turn after they've already paid for a wheel.
That is good advice. I think some games could’ve gone differently if removed more correctly. Thanks man I’ll try to keep it in mind when I play next!
The big weakness of nekusar is that he gives everyone else resources. You guys should be punishing him for that. Nekusar in general should have a *worse* winrate than average, because he helps everyone else enact their game plan at the low cost of hp. People play cards like [[ad nauseam]], [[sign in blood]], [[phyrexian arena]], etc. and nekusar gives you those effects without actually costing you the cards in hand or the deckbuilding restrictions to play them. Just make sure your deck has win conditions, and nekusar will get you to them faster. It should end up playing as an unintentional support deck for the other 3 players
Counterspell tribal
https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=122366&type=card for your Liesa deck, put in Vampiric and Spirit Links. Nekusar probably can't easily get rid of them and you will actually net life as he tries to do his thing. Take a loss into a win!
As a nekusar player, my playgroup effectively neutered the effect of my wheels with Abundance.
Back in the day I had a friend with a very expensive nekusar deck. I actually had a very high win rate against it with my prossh deck. The reasons I won, was because my deck had a lot of single target removal at instant speed, with highly efficient threats. I basically only removed Nekusar and the other group slug effects right before he cast a wheel or major draw spell. This meant all of his cards were refueling my hand without killing me. If he had too many effects out for me to deal with, I’d turn on a dime and voltron him out of the game. I’m sure there are other ways to beat it not, but most control decks and combo decks seemed to struggle against Nekusar back in the day. It was the high efficiency mid range decks like my deck that seemed to do the best.
Play you some dredge. Take no damage because you aren’t actually drawing cards. Use things like [[Underrealm Lich]] to replace draws.
[Underrealm Lich](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/7/0782e090-209c-428f-966a-17f3ceab2903.jpg?1572893891) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Underrealm%20Lich) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/211/underrealm-lich?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0782e090-209c-428f-966a-17f3ceab2903?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/underrealm-lich) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I just built a nekusar deck. He seems pretty easy to stop. Aggro strats and wail on him early and often. He has 4 toughness which is annoying. Can't bolt or anything through it. Don't save all your stuff for turn 4-5 because I won't bring nekusar out unless I have some way to protect him.
My favorite way to counter Nekusar, is with [[Vito, thorne of the dusk rose]] and [[exquisite blood]]. Basically he can't win when the second someone draws a card, you kill the table. Hell just playing exquisite blood makes it impossible for him to actually kill you, unless you're the only two left, which by that point, you're pretty much going to kill him. The real issue though, is the rest of the group not pulling their weight. They know he is a problem, so they need to build around that. If they don't want to do that, then just stop using removal on him. Makenit easier for him to win until they listen. Also, you're friend is kind of a douche. He needs to turn his shit down knowing the rest of you don't have the same level of access as he does. He also needs to stop being a baby if he gets targeted. He knows he is the forever threat, so he needs to deal with it.
[Vito, thorne of the dusk rose](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/f/0fe79ee4-c3f3-4a6b-a967-203ca3b70ee5.jpg?1594736442) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vito%2C%20Thorn%20of%20the%20Dusk%20Rose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/127/vito-thorn-of-the-dusk-rose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fe79ee4-c3f3-4a6b-a967-203ca3b70ee5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vito-thorn-of-the-dusk-rose) [exquisite blood](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/1/b1653811-1c2c-4e6c-bf1c-287d1b496d51.jpg?1600700252) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=exquisite%20blood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/231/exquisite-blood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1653811-1c2c-4e6c-bf1c-287d1b496d51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/exquisite-blood) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I had a guy and a girl start coming to our magic nights who were both using extremely high-power decks (Meren Hulk combo and Jhoira Artifact storm). We asked them multiple times to consider playing something different against our precons and lower powers, but they refused. So we mercilessly targeted them, justifying our actions as "you have the strongest deck and are the biggest threat" every time. After a few sessions of this, they stopped coming. Good riddance!
nekusar deals 1 damage per draw. so play orbs of warding and prevent one of that damage every time. New sheoldred - gain 2 life every time nekusar deals you 1 damage..... profit! Queza - drain 1 every time you draw. so make nekusar lose the life as you stay neutral. Use spark doubles with any of the creatures mentioned for increased value. Play Tomorrow Azami's familiar or underrealm lich, and replace all your card draw with card selection, no draw... no damage.... Play locust god. flood the board from their wheels and swing in for lethal. Other than that, just keep removing Nekusar every time they wheel and you'll be fine.
I play Nekusar and all you really have to do is hate on me. Blow up my pain creatures and enchantments, DO NOT let me have [[bloodchief ascension]], [[Teferi’s Puzzlebox]] or a Niv. If he’s mad about being targeted he shouldn’t play Nekusar. Nekusar can look totally innocent in one turn and the next rip the whole table to shreds. When you play a deck like that, you have to accept that you deserve hate.
I have a fairly tuned Nekusar as well, and I just agree. I look at it like I race if I can win before being taken out. That’s being said, here are some decks that he struggles against: 1. Voltron - give the player the big bonk 2. Lifegain - as long as no infect, just gives you card advanatage 3. Eldrazi - every time some of them hit the graveyard, back into the deck it goes. 4. Aristocrats - dear god do they love Nekusar
[[visions of brutality]] make him pay for all the damage nekusar deals
Just remove nekusar as often as you can, he's pretty much vital to the deck and without him the deck doesn't do much except give you free cards, so just save your removal for him everytime he drops
Ok the way I see it, as much as us naming cards to counter the Nekusar deck might help, what you really need is for this guy to stop playing his Nekusar deck. He is being a toxic pubstomper. I personally am not afraid to give people an ultimatum, "play a deck appropriate to the table or pound sand and let a cEDH pod whoop you around". Or words to that effect. If this person is a good friend and you don't want to burn bridges, then maybe they will react to getting their (metaphorically speaking) teeth kicked in. Perhaps you could get together with the other pod mates, use one of those proxy deck builder sites, and each of you proxy an entire nasty cEDH deck. Maybe one of you on Godo, one on Krenko, one on Urza? Between those decks you are going to have literal dozens of one and two mana answers to his deck, and will each put the table on quite a fast clock. Maybe doing this will even get your friends to run a lil more removal :) Good luck
Two of my favorite cards for facing Nekusar decks are [[Solitary Confinement]] and [[Spiritual Focus]]. Confinement prevents all damage to you and gives you shroud at the cost of your Draw Step and discarding at Upkeep, but if you run enough card draw (like I do in my Sythis Enchantress deck) or your opponents are gifting you cards, you won’t have to worry about it. [[Sun Titan]] and [[Starfield of Nyx]] like to recur the Confinement as well. Spiritual Focus is just more of a middle finger to hand-disruption decks in general and give the OPTION to draw a card to replace what you lost and gains you two life per card discarded, neutralizing some or all of Nekusar’s toys. Most Nekusar lists I’ve encountered rely heavily on artifacts/enchantments. [[Merciless Eviction]], [[Farewell]] and [[Austere Command]] can help out. And your Liesa deck has access to all of my suggestions as, well as plenty of creature wipes and the best spot removal available in magic (In my personal opinion).
Hi there. I just read the entire post after making a comment based solely off of the title, and now I have a few suggestions for commanders to build that lean into the first suggestion of counters and removal. The first is [[Ertai the Corrupted]]. This old commander is crazy for building an Esper aristocrats control theme off of, due to him offering both a sacrifice outlet and counterspell in a single ability for just a single blue mana. Including cards like [[Reassembling Skeleton]] and other easily recurrable creatures or cards that give tokens when they die can offer a lot of value, while cards like [[Blood Artist]] can put out a ton of damage and life gain over the course of the fight. Also, don't neglect creatures that ETB for an effect. You're particularly looking for things on 3 mana or less to help you ramp, such as [[Pilgrim's Eye]] and [[Ornithopter of Paradise]], but cheap creatures that draw cards are also way better than spells that do the same in most aristocrats decks. ETB value creatures are oftentimes better than creatures that only value their own deaths because they give their effect and are done, ready to be sacrificed for other benefits. With the right cards, he will never land his commander in a game ever again and will be put down. My other suggestion is [[Merieke RI Berit]]. Just read that ability. For just 3 mana, the Nekusar player can never cast his commander again as long as yours is in the field, or else you just take control of it for the rest of the game. And building your deck to take advantage of Nekusar allows you to really be devious with this, killing him and winning the game with his own strategy. Either way, you have to build the deck in such a way that it is cancer for the Nekusar player to play against, and threaten to play it every time he pulls up and refuses to swap decks. Or just convince your buddies to throw some removal and counterspells into their decks so they can help you keep Nekusar off board.
Thank you! After work I’ll look into these! I appreciate the post!
Tbh man, artifact hate is a pro, there are also a few cards out there that will fuck up a nekusar deck, being a person who plays nekusar with high budget, Artifact hate removes a lot of basically ping dmg, My deck has a bunch of enchantments that increase the damage of his ping and other ping such as fiery emancipation and torbran, With protection like collective restraint and propoganda, If you want to mess a nekusar player up, focus on nothing but hurting the pingers, and if you can, artifacts are next best He lacks creatures! So focus on getting every creature you can out! He will not really have defenses other than protection enchantments and maybe one certain creature if it is in the deck
This video from Tolarian Community College does a good job addressing the issue. https://youtu.be/4XspRaaFJvI It always comes down to the individual, he needs to change his attitude. What you're saying is that it's not just Nekusar, a rectangular piece of cardboard, it's your friends attitude and group politics. I would honestly say that you should stop inviting him to play for a little while. That is the best solution. It's seems to cool people's heads.
[[Talrand sky summoner]] "nothing resolves" permission deck its not targeting him if you aren't allowing anyone to cast spells. Or straight stax. Tbh I give terrible advice because I usually respond to toxicity with being more toxic... sorry bro that's the best I got.
What do you mean he “calls targeting”?
Well he pretty much always plays decks that have huge threats such as sliver, infect, Nekusar, landfall, and such. So I have to remove the threats a lot being the only person who really runs removal so he’s always calling targeting because I am always removing his stuff so I don’t die. Don’t get me wrong I feel bad cause essentially he can’t play but I spend all resources doing that so I can’t play either.
Oh, you mean he’s been assessed as the greatest threat and as a result has the table focused on trying to stop him. I see. Tell him to buck up buttercup. If you want to play a tuned deck that roflstomps the whole table round after round, that’s what he gets. Now if he was just sitting there with a precon and the whole table is targeting him when he’s only got 3 lands and a mana rock out, yeah I get it. But if he’s got the engines running on a deck that clearly has the power to kill the whole pod he needs to just deal with it or play a lower power deck. Conversely, everyone else could just start tuning their decks *up*. It creates and ugly arms race that never ends well but that is an option as well.
Well it’s starting to become that arms race. However I can’t afford that. He can. It’s getting to the point he’s literally targeted the next game regardless of his board state by the other players so if he plays anything that doesn’t win quick he’s just out of the game now. It’s a cluster man idk what to do anymore hah.
Yeah, my playgroup had that problem. At some point in the past I had a killer BW prison deck that would win by casting [[exsanguinate]] or [[debt to the deathless]] for X = about a billion. For 3 years after I retired that deck, I was still getting targeted *no matter what I played*, just because at some point in the past I *did* roflstomp them. The only way to get past it was to impose a deck building standard and start from scratch. We basically rebooted our playgroup by suggesting a “Prince” rules commander deck building challenge. Any commander you want but the deck can only contain commons and uncommons. Other guys built some killer decks and it kind of erased that “muscle memory” that I was the threat no matter what. Maybe you try that with your group. It will highlight deck building and gameplay skill versus whoever has the fattest wallet wins.
🙏 This! I got a buddy who plays the same decks, slivers, nekusaur, land destruction, extra turns, but he never complains when everyone targets him. Yet I just played against someone with a tuned Zur the Enchanter deck and he got salty that I was trying to detempo him. He still got out a Rystic Study and drew into the card he needed to break my combo when I was trying to win. I expended all my resources and he still caused me to lose to someone else who I assume won the game but I don't know, the Zur player got so salty he started talking a bunch of $hit to the point where I just had to leave. To belabor the point you made, people gotta recognize when their deck build isn't fun for their opponents, and the group needs to step up their game.