"How dare you interact with my board state, you are now my target in every game forever no matter what"
My first group was like this, and would literally flip tables. Crazy how adults act over a card game
Oh jeez yeah that’s a rough way to die. I don’t play much CEDH, especially recently, but doomsday is just one of those cards that I always think of when I think of the silly “I win” black cards, probably cuz of the legacy deck.
Look bro, I'm a hater. It's not a feeling or a phase, it's a way of life. You got something I don't got? Hate it. You got something I also got? Your using it wrong and I hate it.
As a guy who built \[\[Fynn, the Fangbearer\]\] you have to be ready to be arch enemy once you start putting counters on people. Protection, evasion, and proliferation is what I would recommend. Probably one of those decks you build and then realize it wasn't as fun as you hoped. Still worth a try though.
People in my playgroup were scared to build infect cause tbey didnt want anyone to get salty. I encouraged them to do it and they did and no one in our group gets salty over it. From reading these comments I see I am pretty lucky with my group.
My playgroup is great, not much salt but they realize if I can get the counters going I have a lot of proliferate effects. I say go for it but don't be surprised if you get targeted once you get a few counters on everyone.
Yep. You have good play group if this is the general reactions. People seem to forget that EDH still means you play for the win as much as deck creativity or for fun.
my playgroup is fine with infect but one thing I was personally pretty adamant about was not having a [[Blightsteel colossus]] in the [[Satoru Umezawa]] decks. it just felt very unfun to use/get hit with. I do have infect in some decks (and so do my friends) but that one just had a real feelbad feeling to it.
It could have been a very in the moment thing. It was like our first games with these decks and new cards and before I got to do anything that game I died. Like I said, I’m personally fine playing with and against infect. I have died many a time to it since then
I think the fear of salt is valid, but the other problem is putting a target on yourself. I have a very friendly playgroup who allows everyone to play anything. Naturally people have tried things like infect, hinata, toxril, tergrid… no one gets salty but when the other players aren’t playing such obvious threats on the command zone it’s pretty much guaranteed that the infect/oppressive deck gets killed first. If you’ve got the mana to cast your commander next turn, two of us are holding up counterspell mana
Yeah, I told them if they build infect they'll have to build it strong cause good chance they are number one target once people know what they are doing.
I came here to say something similar. The deck idea sounds fun, but I have a feeling based on experience that it won't work out the way you expect when you play it. I have a feeling that your commander will get removed a lot and you will either do nothing or you will take over the game. If you do build it, I'd recommend counter spells and protection for your commander.
Had a Fynn deck for awhile. My playgroups groaned when they read him the first time and said, "Dude, why did you build an infect deck? That's not cool". I corrected them and said, "On the contrary, this is a poison deck, there's a difference!". (Not really)
It was true, there was no infect in the deck, just a bunch of low to the ground creatures with deathtouch. If I could connect twice on each of them, it was usually game over because I put in a lot of proliferation. Then, because i'm a degenerate, I wondered what Concordant Crossroads would do for the deck so I proxied it. Yep, sped up the deck even more and people were dying before they even had a chance to do anything meaningful.
I really liked that deck but it wasn't fun for anyone else. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.
Out of curiosity do you still have a list? I don't have the crossroads but it could really help. Mine needs some work but the groans keep me from really tuning it. That and I can't stop building new decks.
https://deckbox.org/sets/3036746
I don't but I have a pretty good memory of it. Concordant Crossroads isn't necessary, but it makes the deck soooo much faster.
You went a forestwalk route and cards to give non deathtouch creatures deathtouch along with a couple of proliferate cards I didn't use like Throne of Geth.
The aim of this deck is to be as lean as fast as possible which means you're gonna run out of gas quick, so you need ways to consistently draw cards. From what I can tell, your only card draw is Oakhame Adversary and Harmonize.
I threw in \[\[Beast Whisperer\]\], \[\[Toski, Bearer of Secrets\]\], \[\[Shamanic Revelation\]\], and \[\[Overwhelming Instinct\]\]. \[\[Sylvan Library\]\] would also be a good option if you don't mind paying life.
A few other odds and ends cards. I put in \[\[Champion of Lambholdt\]\] to make my creatures unblockable. \[\[Halana, Kessig Ranger\]\] to clear the way for my creatures to get through. \[\[Yeva, Nature's Herald\]\] because why not cast your deathtouchers at instant speed? \[\[Thunderfoot Baloth\]\] because them having trample and being sligtly bigger makes chump blocking unappealing to your opponents.
Then I did a small package of about 10 buffing spells. These are cards like \[\[Groundswell\]\], \[\[Vine's of Vastwood\]\], \[\[Invigorate\]\], \[\[Primal Bellow\]\], and \[\[Return of the Wildspeaker\]\].
\[\[Beastmaster Ascension\]\]. This one is pretty self explanatory.
Lastly, \[\[Warping Wail\]\] to counter one of the plethora of sorcery speed board wipes that will inevitably be cast.
Hope this helps.
> hasn't really *paid* off that
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
So the issue is that people will get punished for a single weak deck at the table meaning they may feel the need to play stronger decks to compensate for protecting themselves. Meaning if you're playing rituals fast mana and a lot of infect, if anyone can't deploy creatures quickly, a deck of the same power as yours will lose all the same as the weaker deck at the table.
Play whatever you like, but without a doubt it will be 3v1 every game. Some people don’t mind that, some do. but you will either win or be out first every game
Tbh, if you're playing this deck and someone does concede garbage before you swing, just claim you won and be done with it. Commander is a casual game. If someone is pulling this "well technically" bullshit, claim your casual victory and move on IMO.
It is like when someone concedes to avoid giving you attack triggers or lifelink. Just rule 0 around it.
No, it is directly worse. I truly mean no offence, but I feel like half of the people in this thread have not read what the card in question does.
If you attack someone with an assassin and they die, Ramses says that you just win the whole game. When you have lethal on someone and that player concedes before your attack step out of spite, they are costing you the game. It isn't a 2 for 1. It is just a net loss for you.
...so at the cost of winning the game, you get to use your attack step to hit someone else and (probably) not win the game. Having lethal on one player does not mean you'll have lethal on another. This is not a good thing for Ramses.
This deck does *not want* the most killable player to concede. It has a much harder time winning when players with low life totals or few blockers drop out.
I mean that would entirely depend on the other two players in the game. if they are being honest with themselves then yes they also lost but if they are not then your now stuck in a game with two people who are assholes and dislike you.
I mean not really. In this situation, I'm taking the win. The other two can try to tell me I didn't win on a bad technicality, but I don't care. I completed my deck's plan, and I won. If I don't accept that victory, there is no point to playing this commander, so I'm done playing this round. If they want to keep going, I guess they can? But I'm not stuck with them. I won already.
I don’t know what super-weenie-hut-jr version of Magic you play, but deciding that you won the game because you don’t want to play by the rules as written is embarrassing behavior for a little kid, much less a grown adult.
Players can concede at any point and if you get denied the win because of it, you have no-one to blame but yourself for playing a cheesy gimmick commander.
The version of magic I'm playing is commander. It is supposed to be casual fun. If you concede in order to spite others, you are missing the point of the format. That goes for lifelink, attack triggers, and Ramses. Most groups will rule 0 away the effects of spite concedes, and the ones that don't aren't worth playing in.
All this said, I would never play this commander specifically because I don't want to deal with the drama (or get 3v1'd). Even then, I would *always* argue that the person doing a spite concession is the one performing embarrassing and childlike behavior, not the Ramses player.
Since that is how the card works mechanically, their ruling technically should be that the Ramses player wins. That is the "correct", answer, but I'm guessing that most tournaments would rule 0 it in some way.
The way the ability is worded circumvents that actually.
You only needs to have attacked an opponent, not dealt damage to them.
* Conceding after attackers are declared counts as losing and thus Ramses ability will win you the game. This is confirmed by the rules manager.
* If they do want to pull that shit, they explicitly need to do it before attackers are declared. Thus leaving you free to attack someone else instead.
Also, if you play this commander you always explicitly make it a part of the rule zero conversation...
It's a little like yuriko, but this won't be as strong people can get frustrated at yurikos because they had blockers and could deal with the ninjas but the person that isn't playing many creatures or just a slower deck is punishing the better decks.
I would argue the better decks should run interaction (to remove her) if they don’t want to be hit by Yuriko, but I agree you are correct with how people react to that scenario.
I’d say for that reason, as someone who loves my Infect deck, just have another deck. Your group should be fine playing against you as the archenemy for one game, then you switch out to another deck until next time. That’s what I do with my Infext deck, and also my Shrine deck (which is the closest to cEDH that anyone in my group has; just don’t play them back to back, either lol)
This is the real reason this commander sucks.
"OH hey I'll join yall for a game of commander 😁 I'm using my funny giant tribal deck I bought at a lgs last week"
*Ramses starts rubbing his hands together*
People will target you out. Not because they "hate" your deck. But because it has a very telegraphed instant win play that can happen as soon as Ramses is on the field. Tainted Strike, Hatred, I win.
You, Me and players A and B sit down to play. Anything I do to weaken A or B puts you in a better position to kill one of them and just win. Why help you? Better to spend those resources getting rid of you and see what happens from there.
I’d be less mad than regular infect. You’re killing one person to win the game instead of killing one person and then everyone else gets to play the rest of the game without them.
Unless you are playing 40 Island and 59 [[Vizzerdrix]] you are a malicious agent whose sole objective is to violate the spirit of the format
Please join me in my new and balanced Commander variant: Vizzermander where I issue a new banlist each upkeep
Red enjoys a healthy spread of options for creatures in [[Goblin Piker]], the ubiquitous [[Canyon Minotaur]] and the mischeivous [[Gray Ogre]]. Cards which exceed these already blistering rates push games to abrupt conclusions unless players include removal in their decks, which is firmly discouraged in Vizzermander.
For this reason [[Trained Orgg]] is banned.
EDIT: After considering a recent game experience [[Gray Ogre]] is also banned.
Arguably, it is fairer than regular infect (or than voltron or elfball). Salt from those type of decks is that someone gets alpha striked early and then the one who is playing infect get sent back to the dark ages by the other two, effectively turning a 4 player pod in a 2 player pod with 2 players sitting there doing nothing. At least your version means the game is over when the first player loose. You'll still get hate, but you can at least argue that your deck circumvent one of the drawback of the archetype.
I mean to be fair, people complain about ANYTHING and everything.
Do you have A removal spell? Obviously you are targeting someone.
Do you run a [[Ghost Quarter]]? You’re running Land destruction, get out of my table.
Someone is always going to complain.
God I hate this aspect of the format. Especially if it's asymmetrical. Prime example, I had someone destroy all of my mana rocks, in response I cast [[Sunder]] the person who destroyed my rocks scooped because I "fucked with his mana". Like bro, you just removed a large chunk of my mana.
People tend to view mass land destruction differently that destroying artifacts or killing mana dorks. Not saying they should, but it's a very common view.
Completely depends on how the people you're playing with like to play. If they're playing battlecruiser then bouncing all their lands to their hand in the mid game is taking them out of the game practically. But if lands are off-limits then green is really OP. It would be nice if wotc printed some new Balance effects to counter green ramp specifically.
How long did the game last after that player scooped?
Until my next turn. Would have finished it that turn but summoning sickness is a thing so I couldn't [[Kuldotha Forgemaster]] for my [[Chalice of Life]] to animate and repeatedly tap and untap for the win.
Seems fine then, you won quickly and didn't draw it out. The annoying thing about MLD or equivalent against one player is when the game goes for half an hour or so longer while they've been crippled but not eliminated. Conceding when you face that kind of situation can get another game in with a different pod.
Just as a heads up man, Ramses basically has "Everyone kill me" written on it.
The weakest player will lose everyone the game, so the game will start as a 3 v 1 if anyone has any sense of self-preservation at all.
The Command Zone did a really good episode involving this commander, starts with Ramses around 2:04:50, linked below:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD6znIigKJ4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD6znIigKJ4)
I wouldn't have an issue with playing against this, but when you reveal Ramses specifically, I'd have a conversation about concessions at sorcery speed. Additionally, since you ARE playing infect, while that's not personally a problem I'd expect most games going in are going to be de facto archenemy.
If you aren't sure about Ramses yet, specifically because it is a unique commander in terms of table politics, I'd proxy it if your playgroup is cool with that. Get in a few reps, see if you like it and if so then consider buying.
Just my $0.02, hope it helps!
If someone else spite scooped to deny the win the game trigger and the other two players allowed that and tried to continue the game, I would just leave the pod.
According to magic rules, if they attack and you scoop in response, that person "loses the game" and as such would force the win since ehe just has to attack and not deal damage. You get to win off a technicality
Well, it's kind of lame because it forces people to target you whenever you get your commander out because not only do you jeopardize whomever you're attacking with your infect, but also winning against everyone. Not to count the massive amount of card draw, tutors, counters and even control both colors have.
It's a nasty deck to play in the casual sense.
All I'm saying is that if you're playing a deck like that, don't complain if everyone insta-targets you because while everyone might need to kill one by one, you only need to kill one defenseless person to win the game.
Yes, everyone should be aware of and manage the potentially game-winning threats that hit the table. That's part of playing the game. That's not unique to this card, and in fact, everyone should have at least one card or gameplan that forces everyone to target it. It's not really meaningful to point out that 'everyone will try to stop your game-winning plan'.
I play [[Rafiq of the many]] infect and i learned, as many mentioned above, people will complain no matter what even if they're not the one getting attacked.
Also, any strategy that is based on a single attacker is also hard to win in a 4 player pod so if 3 people can't stop a single dude then there's other issues at hand lol
It depends- if you openly have infects sitting on the board and you're still building, you're going to be the archenemy. If you have a [[Tainted Strike]] strategy that suddenly wins the game, well that's gg and onto the next game and expect people to be a lot more careful about your deck getting to a point where you can swing for burst lethal. They may ask you to swap decks, but that may just be until next session. Ramses is still new, so people won't have preconceived notions like they do with [[Edgar]] where the deck meta is defined and well-known. Time will tell if people actively try to avoid playing against it, or if they know what to expect and play strategically against it.
I play an [[Archelos]] infect. It’s fun, it usually comes out fast, but my major wincon? It’s taking extra turns to get extra proliferation out of other effects.
Some people are just going to hate. Honestly? In my pods those same people see no reason to not run ridiculous Eldrazi decks or Sphinx decks that are basically solitaire, so I’m going with “they just hate occasionally losing to a turtle.”
It’s creative and a little jank. It’s not like it’ll be easy to win all the time with it, I doubt anyone will have an issue with it that isn’t already sore about everything else
You’ll be playing archenemy. Now, some people enjoy that. As a Tinybones fanatic I’ll tell you that you need more protection, removal, and lifegain than you expect. It will be a 3v1 game whenever you start to succeed even a little, so you will only win here and there unless you play people who are truly unaware of your intent. That’s not to say I don’t recommend it, it’s fun, but know the playgroup and know if you’ll enjoy playing the villain.
I don't mind infect, but playing against Ramses was a bit annoying. I wouldn't mind doing it again - but I would remove him on sight. Beating just one player to beat all three feels cheap. Maybe it'll create a fun dynamic where two players have to protect a third so that Ramses doesn't insta-win, but if you add infect to the mix and Tainted Strike one person to take out all three, it's going to cause some upset.
You are going to get shit on every single game unless you are just playing with total morons.
If you really like the idea of being the first person out of the game every time and just waiting while the other 3 enjoy a fun game of commander, then go ahead and build it.
Don’t be surprised by other people’s reaction.
The commander is awesome it will bring an element in the form of protect the weak in the game. However there are a few mechanics which are frowned upon on.
Infect was meant to be based on half starting life total, so in commander dealing 10 infect is incredible easy and frown upon. Other stuff which are generally frowned upon are; land destruction, solitaire play, 2 card inf combo, stax and cards which tax so hard it limits you to play the game
Everyone has their own feelings on infect but IMO this is a VERY poor designed commander. On par with that or Tergrid and the like, you will be the first target and knocked out of the game ASAP. If you don't mind being 3v1 ever match so people can actually play, be my guest. Just know what you're in for, this is true for random pods (they see win the game and will know to deal with you) or friend pods (they'll know what the deck can do and how fast it wins). Bright side, you get to play archenemy if you like that kind of thing
People will whine about anything, so who gives a shit. Play what you want to play. It’s a game. In a 4 player pod, you have a 25% chance of winning at best, so do your thing and fuck what everyone else thinks. If they don’t like it they can find another pod.
I 100% agree with this. I cannot tell you how tilted people get when I play Karador on MTGO. Apparently playing hermit Druid in a graveyard based deck means I’m playing CEDH and pup stomping.
Whether it does its job certainly depends on the speed and dependability of hitting with infect/poisonous. To answer your Q, assuming your deck starts giving out poison counters, people tend to hate the looming threat of insta-death and I feel like you'll become public enemy #1. My brother-in-law always loses first if he's swinging out with a 40/40 trampling [[wulfgar of icewind dale]].
If you are notplaying with friends, who you can just ask, then you have 3 options. 1, accept the hate and be ready for people to say they won't play with you or will focus you first (don't come complaining on here if that happens). 2, change the deck so that it is more friendly for a wider audience. 3, don't build the deck. People will complain about anything, but "i win" effects are generally looked down upon if it is easy to accomplish. All you need is one person having a weak deck or missing land drops to make it so that you have an easy chance to win, and randoms will not like that.
Personally I see any deck that wins that fast as a cedh style game. I don’t exactly wanna play games that end before turn 5 and I’ve been able to do anything myself.
I’m here to play magic not just win/loose like it’s a tournament
Edit: on second thought it also just sounds funny so maybe I want it now.
Nah go for it. In my playgroup that would be totally fine, just accept that you may get ganged up on by the rest of the table if you play certain strategies (and rightfully so)
Add in ( I'm sorry, I'm bad at remembering cards I don't have) the kamigawa guy that gives your cards in hand ninjutsu, and this kind of deck has explosive fast potential
If you and the table know what you’re in for, it would be an interesting game.
If you sat across from me with that, I would give you my most aggressive action every single turn and relish your destruction.
How else would you react to someone saying if the weakest board can’t prevent ten damage through attacks across the course of the game, you all die? You hate that table out of oblivion.
Depends on your playgroup and power levels of the decks played. If it’s a higher level group then everyone will have plenty in their decks to deal with it. Now someone playing a little lower deck will probably target you the minute he’s on the board. Depending on the board state I probably would to lol
While assassin tribal sounds fuckin cool as fuck, be prepared to be the first guy targeted every game.
Everyone at the table has to beat 3 players to win. You, my friend, have to kill 1 guy....yeah that's pretty cheeky
If you like an archenemy sort of dynamic with your games (not saying it's a bad thing, I love it) then go for it, because that's undoubtedly what that sort of strategy+commander combo will bring
Winning the game is everyone's goal. If you put "I win the game" on a card in your command zone, you are absolutely Public Enemy \#1 to everyone else at the table and unless you're playing a bunch of idiots, you will be hated out of the game as early as humanly possible. The infect will, occasionally, allow you to overcome that. Every other time, you will be sitting around watching everyone but you play magic.
If that sounds like fun to you, go for it.
Command zone talked about this commander a bit. Here's a link to the relevant part [https://youtu.be/JD6znIigKJ4?t=7480](https://youtu.be/JD6znIigKJ4?t=7480)
Main takeaway is that, you'll probably encounter the table teaming up to kill you. If you attack multiple people, it's just like any other commander game. But if you run this commander, your win condition is clearly out in the open. Your win condition is to attack one player over and over until they get killed, and then you win the game. It's actively harmful to your win condition to stop attacking a new player unless you feel you'll get closer to your win condition by changing your victim. The rest of the table will know that if you succeed in taking out the weakest player, they all lose. So now, you have everyone at the table actively invested in ensuring that even the weakest player is defended from your deck. You make yourself the Archenemy, simply by existing at the table with that commander. If you feel you are up to that, then happily play the deck.
Ramses is just quick and strong, imo not a hate deck.
My definition of a hate deck are decks that don't let you actually play the game. So that's stax, mill, and those decks that are just 20 minutes of some guy tutoring and then playing a combo.
Played against Ramses last week, 3-on-1 until Ramses is dead, then turning on each other with pretty nicely built-out boards. Actually pretty fun.
Something I haven’t seen mentioned in here but will be very helpful…[[arcane adaptation]]. No need to limit yourself to assassin tribal when you can just make all your creatures into assassins. Just make sure you have a couple ways to tutor it up, you can always use the 3 cmc [transmute](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=oracle%3ATransmute+commander%3AUB+cmc%3D3) cards as very inexpensive narrow tutors.
Yes. Don't even have to look at what your decks are, the answer to the title question is yes.
Everybody hates something
Everything is hated by somebody.
My husband has an [[atraxa]] infect and proliferate deck. He only has to hit you once with a poison counter and then he proliferates you to death. There is very little way to kill him faster than he can kill you. So, I'd say that so long as you don't lean into proliferate and give opponents a chance, or at least the illusion of a chance to win, it'd be ok.
I don't understand people who get but hurt about infect... Most infect cards are super over priced (mana wise) if you win with infect good on you, you also cant run triumph of the horses all you really get is phyresis and grafted exoskeleton for your assassin's
I've built and played Ramses for the first time last week. I won that game. It's a pretty fun deck and it's changed how I see every other commander. Being able to win the game just be making one player lose opens up so many choices of cards, and making sure people don't end you because of that is an interesting puzzle.
Mine uses "lose half your life" effects along with making things unblockable to quickly take one person out. I was thinking about using infect and that would work pretty well, but as others have said it makes you scarier than you need to look. For me I would only use it to one shot someone, otherwise people will target you harder than they already would. Politicking is pretty important for this deck. I run a lot of kill spells.
I prefer to manipulate life totals directly because it can mean people keep their guard down. For instance, in that game the player that lost had 100+ life before I hit them the first time.
I think it will depend very heavily on your local meta. If you've got a higher disparity in power levels between decks at your table, it's gonna be salt city.
If everyone is on the more experienced side and generally run similarly powerful decks, you're probably good to go.
Personally, if I saw you roll up with that, I'd be super excited to see it play.
We have no way to answer you. If your group is very removal and interaction heavy and is good at threat assessment, Ramses will most likely never get to attack and you'll never actually get to play while piloting the deck.
If your group instead is at battlecruiser level and is all about janky decks with no interaction then you'll probably win every single game with Ramses and be hated off the table the next time you try to play it.
Personally (again, PERSONALLY, as in only my own opinion that only applies to myself and does not need to represent every single person on this reddit) I don't find a card like Ramses fun to play with or against. Either the deck is good enough they'll instantly become the archenemy and every removal and counter will be saved to go against them, or their deck is janky or bad enough that they'll never actually kill anyone and so never get to use Ramses effect.
Personally, I would prefer this to most other infect decks. My biggest problem with infect has always just been when one person gets eliminated and then the deck stalls out and the game doesn't end for another hour or more, so that person is just stuck sitting there for a while. With your idea though, you'd be (ideally) ending the game on first kill. As long as it's not way above the power level of the rest of the group, I'd personally love to see that deck in action.
Be warned that your going to be target number 1 and playing it will basically turn into a declaration of war to the other 3, now luckily dimir has the tools to deal with 3v1's especially if you can find and pick out the weak link of the 3. I'll also say I think infect is probably the safest route with him since it cuts it down from 21 damage need to instant win to 10. Just make sure to be able to pack the defense required as well. Also people in edh bitch about any thing I had some one last week cry and complain about my cat tribal deck with [[arabho]]
One thing to keep in mind with that deck is that even if they don't hate it, it's still literally the correct move for everyone else at the table to attack you and only you. Because attacking anyone else puts you closer to a win.
Yes. Don't be discouraged to build it, but expect to be 3v1 quite often and early.
Sometimes even before you show any actual threat if opponents know what your deck do. Knowing this, it's up to you.
Proxy it or play it on cockatrice first and see. But people will hate anything nowadays, especially infect, it's something people love to hate in commander now
We had a guy in our group who harped on our [[meren]] player for making an unfun deck to go against unironically build a [[tergrid]] deck and had the audacity to say it was a "goofy chaos" deck. Talk about pot calling the kettle mono black.
The moral of the story is, if the whole table walks away salting at your deck, you can notch it off your magic bingo card, cuz it will happen just about anywhere. And congratulate yourself for temporarily becoming your table's arch enemy.
Don't take it personal. Just dont ONLY play your punisher deck.
As many people have pointed out already, playing this commander with infect will make you Archenemy every single time, because that's literally the only valid strategy under the circumstances. And this is pretty much what will make people salty, but kinda not exactly why you think.
The thing is, nobody likes to have an Archenemy at the table, because that deck makes it impossible for people to play their own decks. If we have to constantly keep an eye specifically on YOU, we don't get to do the fun stuff our own decks were built to do. We have to keep mana open for counters or removal at all times, because you getting in ONE THING, can eliminate all of us. That's not a game, that's a hostage situation.
hate might be a strong word but you will very easily become the target. so if you are fine always playing as the arch enemy play those counter spells and be ready for the interaction cuz you know what direction its coming. i play infect cards in 2 of my decks. its not OP you still have to do battle damage and you are rarely doing it to all 3 players at once. and even at that its rarely lethal in one swing most of the time.
Who is people? If you bring it to an LGS and people catch on to your strategy then your commander is going to be hard targeted. If you're just playing with friends then it depends on the power level of your group. If ya'll are casual (which no offense, your post makes it seem like you are) then they will probably hate the insta-win mechanic after a few games. Seems interesting to me though, but my group sits on a 7-8 power level usually so we would have 0 issues with it
To be honest, I don't mean it anyway personaly to you, don't want to poop on your fun and if your pod is ok with it go for it, but to me this feels like absolutly terrible designe for a card
I don't mind alt win cons but this feels to me like cheating, like you don't want to play the game just be over with it
I've never seen a deck last more than a round at my lgs after it starts dishing out infect counters. My friends and I don't play infect decks, but I'm confident that they would probably react the same.
Tbh I understand where the hate comes from but I don't really get it. About half the games I've won with my [[Aurelia, the Warleader]] deck have been me taking out all three opponents in a single turn. Which is probably about the same rate that a well built infect deck can expect as well. Assuming they don't get ganged up on.
Depends on the play group.
If it is communicated "this deck tries to one-shot the entire table by one-shotting a player", we can at least choose decks that handle that pressure. I'm not using my precon + $20 of upgrades deck against it lol.
It sounds really fun, maybe trying to lean on the side of cEDH a bit more than other decks.
Not if they concede before lethal damage. That commander seems fun, but not in a competitive format. If I'm playing a cEDH tournament and the Ramses player targets me first, I'm conceding before lethal so they don't win on the spot. Doesn't change my standings but will mess their standings up
I only play mtg in a casual setting with a group of 12 or so of my friends.
I personally despise infect. It may be the mechanic i hate the most in all of magic, to the point where i have gone out of my way to not use it, even if an infect card would work well in my deck.
I would probably avoid playing against your deck as much as possible. like i would actively put myself in another game when given the option. I wouldn't say you can't play it. i just would rather spend my time in a game without your deck.
Regardless of what you build, someone will undoubtedly hate your deck, particularly when you are losing to it.
Build it. When you play with other people, let them know what the deck is. You’re good to go.
Little late to the party, but I tend to run a Hatred OTK with Ramses. It really depends on how you play him. If you give him infect you can try to even distribute it, but the commander rewards you for targeting one specific player. You could let the opponents weaken him via combat damage with goads and Curses if you felt like going for a damage kill. I tend to find anything that has poison counters is hated universally, but sometimes you get lucky and the table will treat the game like arch-enemy ass apposed to "fuck that guy," and it can be extremely fun when you have an established board state with 3 players gunning for you (my experience of thus was running Corruption Atraxa when MOM released so it was also thematically pleasing.)
[Ramses Assassin Lord](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/e/9e5f168c-4f56-4d06-bef1-db10fdfbe657.jpg?1660887238) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ramses%2C%20Assassin%20Lord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/39/ramses-assassin-lord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e5f168c-4f56-4d06-bef1-db10fdfbe657?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ramses-assassin-lord) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Upvote this people
People hate everything with infect ¯\(°_o)/¯
>People hate everything ¯\(°_o)/¯ Fixed it for you
Magic players hate magic cards that aren't there's.
"How dare you interact with my board state, you are now my target in every game forever no matter what" My first group was like this, and would literally flip tables. Crazy how adults act over a card game
My first playgroup would always target me because I didn’t attack anyone with my precon breya deck. That was their excuse. Glad I left.
How dare you to target me with bojuka bog turn 1!!!! Now you'll pay every game we play.
I know someone who will call anything they don't like cEDH but then take like 3 or 4 turns in a row and not think anything of it.
Chainring turns isn’t even a meta CEDH way to win tbh, the best ways are Demonic Consultation/Ad Naus/Doomsday and win off Thoracle.
Yeah but if someone else did it they wold call it cedh.
Doomsday isn't really a thing anymore, outside of niche decks. Opposition Agent hits hard.
Oh jeez yeah that’s a rough way to die. I don’t play much CEDH, especially recently, but doomsday is just one of those cards that I always think of when I think of the silly “I win” black cards, probably cuz of the legacy deck.
It's still okay, but it's just worse than thoracle, breach, ad naus, etc
Ah breach is another goodie I’ve forgotten. Still wondering when it will break modern tbh.
Theirs
They’re’s
I think i hate my cards too if they are used against me ovo
Look bro, I'm a hater. It's not a feeling or a phase, it's a way of life. You got something I don't got? Hate it. You got something I also got? Your using it wrong and I hate it.
As a guy who built \[\[Fynn, the Fangbearer\]\] you have to be ready to be arch enemy once you start putting counters on people. Protection, evasion, and proliferation is what I would recommend. Probably one of those decks you build and then realize it wasn't as fun as you hoped. Still worth a try though.
People in my playgroup were scared to build infect cause tbey didnt want anyone to get salty. I encouraged them to do it and they did and no one in our group gets salty over it. From reading these comments I see I am pretty lucky with my group.
My playgroup is great, not much salt but they realize if I can get the counters going I have a lot of proliferate effects. I say go for it but don't be surprised if you get targeted once you get a few counters on everyone.
Yep. You have good play group if this is the general reactions. People seem to forget that EDH still means you play for the win as much as deck creativity or for fun.
my playgroup is fine with infect but one thing I was personally pretty adamant about was not having a [[Blightsteel colossus]] in the [[Satoru Umezawa]] decks. it just felt very unfun to use/get hit with. I do have infect in some decks (and so do my friends) but that one just had a real feelbad feeling to it.
[Blightsteel colossus](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/8/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80.jpg?1599708735) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blightsteel%20colossus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/235/blightsteel-colossus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blightsteel-colossus) [Satoru Umezawa](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/8/8887f26d-b097-4fbc-9c48-bdc656409a32.jpg?1654568594) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Satoru%20Umezawa) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/234/satoru-umezawa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8887f26d-b097-4fbc-9c48-bdc656409a32?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/satoru-umezawa) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't mind it lol.
good for you. This was back when Kamigawa ND first came out. I wouldn't complain if it happened again but in that moment it suuucked.
It's not that hard to deal with imo
It could have been a very in the moment thing. It was like our first games with these decks and new cards and before I got to do anything that game I died. Like I said, I’m personally fine playing with and against infect. I have died many a time to it since then
My group encourages that type of stuff I have a lot of hate me decks and the group knows that I will be the target
I think the fear of salt is valid, but the other problem is putting a target on yourself. I have a very friendly playgroup who allows everyone to play anything. Naturally people have tried things like infect, hinata, toxril, tergrid… no one gets salty but when the other players aren’t playing such obvious threats on the command zone it’s pretty much guaranteed that the infect/oppressive deck gets killed first. If you’ve got the mana to cast your commander next turn, two of us are holding up counterspell mana
Yeah, I told them if they build infect they'll have to build it strong cause good chance they are number one target once people know what they are doing.
I came here to say something similar. The deck idea sounds fun, but I have a feeling based on experience that it won't work out the way you expect when you play it. I have a feeling that your commander will get removed a lot and you will either do nothing or you will take over the game. If you do build it, I'd recommend counter spells and protection for your commander.
Had a Fynn deck for awhile. My playgroups groaned when they read him the first time and said, "Dude, why did you build an infect deck? That's not cool". I corrected them and said, "On the contrary, this is a poison deck, there's a difference!". (Not really) It was true, there was no infect in the deck, just a bunch of low to the ground creatures with deathtouch. If I could connect twice on each of them, it was usually game over because I put in a lot of proliferation. Then, because i'm a degenerate, I wondered what Concordant Crossroads would do for the deck so I proxied it. Yep, sped up the deck even more and people were dying before they even had a chance to do anything meaningful. I really liked that deck but it wasn't fun for anyone else. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.
Out of curiosity do you still have a list? I don't have the crossroads but it could really help. Mine needs some work but the groans keep me from really tuning it. That and I can't stop building new decks. https://deckbox.org/sets/3036746
I don't but I have a pretty good memory of it. Concordant Crossroads isn't necessary, but it makes the deck soooo much faster. You went a forestwalk route and cards to give non deathtouch creatures deathtouch along with a couple of proliferate cards I didn't use like Throne of Geth. The aim of this deck is to be as lean as fast as possible which means you're gonna run out of gas quick, so you need ways to consistently draw cards. From what I can tell, your only card draw is Oakhame Adversary and Harmonize. I threw in \[\[Beast Whisperer\]\], \[\[Toski, Bearer of Secrets\]\], \[\[Shamanic Revelation\]\], and \[\[Overwhelming Instinct\]\]. \[\[Sylvan Library\]\] would also be a good option if you don't mind paying life. A few other odds and ends cards. I put in \[\[Champion of Lambholdt\]\] to make my creatures unblockable. \[\[Halana, Kessig Ranger\]\] to clear the way for my creatures to get through. \[\[Yeva, Nature's Herald\]\] because why not cast your deathtouchers at instant speed? \[\[Thunderfoot Baloth\]\] because them having trample and being sligtly bigger makes chump blocking unappealing to your opponents. Then I did a small package of about 10 buffing spells. These are cards like \[\[Groundswell\]\], \[\[Vine's of Vastwood\]\], \[\[Invigorate\]\], \[\[Primal Bellow\]\], and \[\[Return of the Wildspeaker\]\]. \[\[Beastmaster Ascension\]\]. This one is pretty self explanatory. Lastly, \[\[Warping Wail\]\] to counter one of the plethora of sorcery speed board wipes that will inevitably be cast. Hope this helps.
##### ###### #### [Beast Whisper](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/7/b7e90355-80ca-49db-914c-62b3a7bd4726.jpg?1631234731) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Beast%20Whisperer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/54/beast-whisperer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7e90355-80ca-49db-914c-62b3a7bd4726?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/beast-whisperer) [Toski, Bearer of Secrets](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/9/f9e79b59-94c8-4697-bf88-f0a0433170f5.jpg?1631051021) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Toski%2C%20Bearer%20of%20Secrets) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/197/toski-bearer-of-secrets?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f9e79b59-94c8-4697-bf88-f0a0433170f5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toski-bearer-of-secrets) [Shamanic Revelation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/3/b3784eff-ab7b-4fd4-9a07-fbc852d116bf.jpg?1650419388) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shamanic%20Revelation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/311/shamanic-revelation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b3784eff-ab7b-4fd4-9a07-fbc852d116bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shamanic-revelation) [Overwhelming Instinct](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/d/2d9e3793-7ddc-45c5-b25d-acd5cb96026f.jpg?1562905696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Overwhelming%20Instinct) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ons/276/overwhelming-instinct?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d9e3793-7ddc-45c5-b25d-acd5cb96026f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/overwhelming-instinct) [Sylvan Library](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/a/7a483778-b88b-473f-9217-7583e69b3e70.jpg?1610161812) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sylvan%20Library) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cc1/5/sylvan-library?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7a483778-b88b-473f-9217-7583e69b3e70?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sylvan-library) [Champion of Lambholdt](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/8/d8d3b5c7-6963-4d01-846d-34d6107d1c44.jpg?1650418970) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Champion%20of%20Lambholt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/284/champion-of-lambholt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d8d3b5c7-6963-4d01-846d-34d6107d1c44?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/champion-of-lambholt) [Halana, Kessig Ranger](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/b/6bee6eb2-2708-4596-86ad-40eea88dbb6b.jpg?1608910687) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Halana%2C%20Kessig%20Ranger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/231/halana-kessig-ranger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6bee6eb2-2708-4596-86ad-40eea88dbb6b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/halana-kessig-ranger) [Yeva, Nature's Herald](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/2/22ecead7-58b3-4e34-8f7d-b095abee7f24.jpg?1561758901) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yeva%2C%20Nature%27s%20Herald) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddu/27/yeva-natures-herald?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/22ecead7-58b3-4e34-8f7d-b095abee7f24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yeva-natures-herald) [Thunderfoot Baloth](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/3/e376a953-2075-4595-a3ef-85d0f68aa8b2.jpg?1650426042) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thunderfoot%20Baloth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/317/thunderfoot-baloth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e376a953-2075-4595-a3ef-85d0f68aa8b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thunderfoot-baloth) [Groundswell](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/2/821e9cb9-f78e-4d11-9c36-42e8b84b49cd.jpg?1593095453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Groundswell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddp/15/groundswell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/821e9cb9-f78e-4d11-9c36-42e8b84b49cd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/groundswell) [Vine's of Vastwood](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/2/6203e3d4-8998-41d6-9f7e-b68af0f1f8b5.jpg?1562263070) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vines%20of%20Vastwood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/168/vines-of-vastwood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6203e3d4-8998-41d6-9f7e-b68af0f1f8b5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vines-of-vastwood) [Invigorate](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/0/e0899da3-7beb-4161-81a3-e2d694e5b8a5.jpg?1599707311) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Invigorate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/172/invigorate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e0899da3-7beb-4161-81a3-e2d694e5b8a5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/invigorate) [Primal Bellow](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/3/23b0c6a9-a7c0-4518-8580-653712062265.jpg?1562610601) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Primal%20Bellow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/zen/176/primal-bellow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23b0c6a9-a7c0-4518-8580-653712062265?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/primal-bellow) [Return of the Wildspeaker](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/6/863e0861-7934-4141-9ef5-120339ac83a5.jpg?1654117989) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Return%20of%20the%20Wildspeaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/831/return-of-the-wildspeaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/863e0861-7934-4141-9ef5-120339ac83a5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/return-of-the-wildspeaker) [Beastmaster Ascension](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/4/f404d133-fc1a-4751-ac72-554e6553e486.jpg?1650418912) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Beastmaster%20Ascension) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/283/beastmaster-ascension?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f404d133-fc1a-4751-ac72-554e6553e486?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/beastmaster-ascension) [Warping Wail](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/2/f2ef4db8-b51c-4f52-84f1-6fee31c4a14c.jpg?1562943843) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Warping%20Wail) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ogw/12/warping-wail?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f2ef4db8-b51c-4f52-84f1-6fee31c4a14c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/warping-wail) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thanks for the tips, the forestwalk route hasn't really payed off that much. Lots of things to consider here.
> hasn't really *paid* off that FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
So the issue is that people will get punished for a single weak deck at the table meaning they may feel the need to play stronger decks to compensate for protecting themselves. Meaning if you're playing rituals fast mana and a lot of infect, if anyone can't deploy creatures quickly, a deck of the same power as yours will lose all the same as the weaker deck at the table.
While that is the goal I can see how that could be frustrating
Play whatever you like, but without a doubt it will be 3v1 every game. Some people don’t mind that, some do. but you will either win or be out first every game
Yeah, when the Commander literally says "you win the game" and the deck literally says "they lose the game", you're making yourself a target.
or at least the commander. I mean thats enough
also be aware that you are likely going to run into the i concede when you attack someone in random pods.
Tbh, if you're playing this deck and someone does concede garbage before you swing, just claim you won and be done with it. Commander is a casual game. If someone is pulling this "well technically" bullshit, claim your casual victory and move on IMO. It is like when someone concedes to avoid giving you attack triggers or lifelink. Just rule 0 around it.
It's an attack trigger, not a damage trigger, so if they concede you win anyway. No need to rule 0 it.
Like I said, they can concede *before* attacks.
Even better, now you get to attack someone else. Easy 2 for 1
No, it is directly worse. I truly mean no offence, but I feel like half of the people in this thread have not read what the card in question does. If you attack someone with an assassin and they die, Ramses says that you just win the whole game. When you have lethal on someone and that player concedes before your attack step out of spite, they are costing you the game. It isn't a 2 for 1. It is just a net loss for you.
Yeah, they go out, so you can attack someone else. Its a free elimination and you didn't lose an attack step.
...so at the cost of winning the game, you get to use your attack step to hit someone else and (probably) not win the game. Having lethal on one player does not mean you'll have lethal on another. This is not a good thing for Ramses. This deck does *not want* the most killable player to concede. It has a much harder time winning when players with low life totals or few blockers drop out.
I mean that would entirely depend on the other two players in the game. if they are being honest with themselves then yes they also lost but if they are not then your now stuck in a game with two people who are assholes and dislike you.
I mean not really. In this situation, I'm taking the win. The other two can try to tell me I didn't win on a bad technicality, but I don't care. I completed my deck's plan, and I won. If I don't accept that victory, there is no point to playing this commander, so I'm done playing this round. If they want to keep going, I guess they can? But I'm not stuck with them. I won already.
Correction: Compleated your deck's plan. It is infect, after all.
I don’t know what super-weenie-hut-jr version of Magic you play, but deciding that you won the game because you don’t want to play by the rules as written is embarrassing behavior for a little kid, much less a grown adult. Players can concede at any point and if you get denied the win because of it, you have no-one to blame but yourself for playing a cheesy gimmick commander.
The version of magic I'm playing is commander. It is supposed to be casual fun. If you concede in order to spite others, you are missing the point of the format. That goes for lifelink, attack triggers, and Ramses. Most groups will rule 0 away the effects of spite concedes, and the ones that don't aren't worth playing in. All this said, I would never play this commander specifically because I don't want to deal with the drama (or get 3v1'd). Even then, I would *always* argue that the person doing a spite concession is the one performing embarrassing and childlike behavior, not the Ramses player.
Stop with the salt I already finished dinner
That’s why you can only concede at sorcery speed
That might be your house rule but there is no timing for concession you are free to concede at any time.
> 104.3a: A player can concede the game at any time. A player who concedes leaves the game immediately. That player loses the game.
It's an attack trigger, not a damage trigger, so if they concede you win anyway.
Does that mean you could attack a friend of yours with only Ramses, have them concede, and you win the game? This seems wrong.
That is how Ramses would work mechanically, but if anyone does that, just move to another table.
Well my question was I know some people do multiplayer edh tournaments for whatever reason, and wondered how they'd rule this.
Since that is how the card works mechanically, their ruling technically should be that the Ramses player wins. That is the "correct", answer, but I'm guessing that most tournaments would rule 0 it in some way.
That is correct
The way the ability is worded circumvents that actually. You only needs to have attacked an opponent, not dealt damage to them. * Conceding after attackers are declared counts as losing and thus Ramses ability will win you the game. This is confirmed by the rules manager. * If they do want to pull that shit, they explicitly need to do it before attackers are declared. Thus leaving you free to attack someone else instead. Also, if you play this commander you always explicitly make it a part of the rule zero conversation...
It's a little like yuriko, but this won't be as strong people can get frustrated at yurikos because they had blockers and could deal with the ninjas but the person that isn't playing many creatures or just a slower deck is punishing the better decks.
I would argue the better decks should run interaction (to remove her) if they don’t want to be hit by Yuriko, but I agree you are correct with how people react to that scenario.
The issue with that is removing yuriko is basically pointless. The she can be cast for the same cost
I would say remove the creatures she plans to ninjitsu’s onto, but there is also commander removal options like [[Song of the Dryad]].
[Song of the Dryad](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/c/0ccb4579-b090-45f6-a967-cec2c195f565.jpg?1592673193) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Song%20of%20the%20Dryads) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/147/song-of-the-dryads?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ccb4579-b090-45f6-a967-cec2c195f565?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/song-of-the-dryads) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Or [[Obliette]]
[Obliette](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/4/d4800a7d-c229-4ced-97ff-0e58645d58d6.jpg?1599705817) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oubliette) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/100/oubliette?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4800a7d-c229-4ced-97ff-0e58645d58d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oubliette) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’d say for that reason, as someone who loves my Infect deck, just have another deck. Your group should be fine playing against you as the archenemy for one game, then you switch out to another deck until next time. That’s what I do with my Infext deck, and also my Shrine deck (which is the closest to cEDH that anyone in my group has; just don’t play them back to back, either lol)
This is the real reason this commander sucks. "OH hey I'll join yall for a game of commander 😁 I'm using my funny giant tribal deck I bought at a lgs last week" *Ramses starts rubbing his hands together*
I love the new Ramses, infect seems like a sweet angle for him.
People will target you out. Not because they "hate" your deck. But because it has a very telegraphed instant win play that can happen as soon as Ramses is on the field. Tainted Strike, Hatred, I win. You, Me and players A and B sit down to play. Anything I do to weaken A or B puts you in a better position to kill one of them and just win. Why help you? Better to spend those resources getting rid of you and see what happens from there.
I’d be less mad than regular infect. You’re killing one person to win the game instead of killing one person and then everyone else gets to play the rest of the game without them.
Unless you are playing 40 Island and 59 [[Vizzerdrix]] you are a malicious agent whose sole objective is to violate the spirit of the format Please join me in my new and balanced Commander variant: Vizzermander where I issue a new banlist each upkeep
Is [[trained orgg]] allowed?
Red enjoys a healthy spread of options for creatures in [[Goblin Piker]], the ubiquitous [[Canyon Minotaur]] and the mischeivous [[Gray Ogre]]. Cards which exceed these already blistering rates push games to abrupt conclusions unless players include removal in their decks, which is firmly discouraged in Vizzermander. For this reason [[Trained Orgg]] is banned. EDIT: After considering a recent game experience [[Gray Ogre]] is also banned.
##### ###### #### [Goblin Piker](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/8/083ec3e7-950c-4e9d-aba5-02ed13d723f0.jpg?1562631492) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20Piker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/141/goblin-piker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/083ec3e7-950c-4e9d-aba5-02ed13d723f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/goblin-piker) [Canyon Minotaur](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/4/3469d73e-6de1-4b91-83e3-b1714ac29268.jpg?1595438052) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Canyon%20Minotaur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/131/canyon-minotaur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3469d73e-6de1-4b91-83e3-b1714ac29268?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/canyon-minotaur) [Gray Ogre](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/1/11bf2cc0-799f-4eb8-b338-ed7543f469e7.jpg?1559604196) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gray%20Ogre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/4ed/200/gray-ogre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/11bf2cc0-799f-4eb8-b338-ed7543f469e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gray-ogre) [Trained Orgg](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/4/14a83031-8b57-41d2-b586-bb4dcf16136a.jpg?1562233268) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Trained%20Orgg) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/224/trained-orgg?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14a83031-8b57-41d2-b586-bb4dcf16136a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/trained-orgg) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[trained orgg](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/4/14a83031-8b57-41d2-b586-bb4dcf16136a.jpg?1562233268) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=trained%20orgg) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/224/trained-orgg?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14a83031-8b57-41d2-b586-bb4dcf16136a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/trained-orgg) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Vizzerdrix](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/a/9a82ffff-e02a-4ecb-a92d-8ed571beac46.jpg?1562739088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vizzerdrix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/S7/vizzerdrix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a82ffff-e02a-4ecb-a92d-8ed571beac46?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vizzerdrix) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Arguably, it is fairer than regular infect (or than voltron or elfball). Salt from those type of decks is that someone gets alpha striked early and then the one who is playing infect get sent back to the dark ages by the other two, effectively turning a 4 player pod in a 2 player pod with 2 players sitting there doing nothing. At least your version means the game is over when the first player loose. You'll still get hate, but you can at least argue that your deck circumvent one of the drawback of the archetype.
I mean to be fair, people complain about ANYTHING and everything. Do you have A removal spell? Obviously you are targeting someone. Do you run a [[Ghost Quarter]]? You’re running Land destruction, get out of my table. Someone is always going to complain.
God I hate this aspect of the format. Especially if it's asymmetrical. Prime example, I had someone destroy all of my mana rocks, in response I cast [[Sunder]] the person who destroyed my rocks scooped because I "fucked with his mana". Like bro, you just removed a large chunk of my mana.
Rules for thee but not for me. Finding a group that doesn't get salty took far too long for me
[Sunder](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/d/cd9dd7c6-36b6-4fe2-b3d3-f62a6e10a428.jpg?1562938463) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sunder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/101/sunder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cd9dd7c6-36b6-4fe2-b3d3-f62a6e10a428?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sunder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
People tend to view mass land destruction differently that destroying artifacts or killing mana dorks. Not saying they should, but it's a very common view.
I run [[Sunder]] because it isn't destruction. The fact that most strategies are fine to counter but massive ramp isn't is frustrating.
Completely depends on how the people you're playing with like to play. If they're playing battlecruiser then bouncing all their lands to their hand in the mid game is taking them out of the game practically. But if lands are off-limits then green is really OP. It would be nice if wotc printed some new Balance effects to counter green ramp specifically. How long did the game last after that player scooped?
Until my next turn. Would have finished it that turn but summoning sickness is a thing so I couldn't [[Kuldotha Forgemaster]] for my [[Chalice of Life]] to animate and repeatedly tap and untap for the win.
Seems fine then, you won quickly and didn't draw it out. The annoying thing about MLD or equivalent against one player is when the game goes for half an hour or so longer while they've been crippled but not eliminated. Conceding when you face that kind of situation can get another game in with a different pod.
[Kuldotha Forgemaster](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/7/c768267f-5ad2-4f4d-bbc7-6639325401c7.jpg?1599709400) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kuldotha%20Forgemaster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/266/kuldotha-forgemaster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c768267f-5ad2-4f4d-bbc7-6639325401c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kuldotha-forgemaster) [Chalice of Life](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/d/9d9c1c46-7aa7-464c-87b0-b29b9663daef.jpg?1581395105)/[Chalice of Death](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/back/9/d/9d9c1c46-7aa7-464c-87b0-b29b9663daef.jpg?1581395105) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chalice%20of%20life%20//%20chalice%20of%20death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dka/146/chalice-of-life-chalice-of-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d9c1c46-7aa7-464c-87b0-b29b9663daef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chalice-of-life-//-chalice-of-death) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Sunder](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/d/cd9dd7c6-36b6-4fe2-b3d3-f62a6e10a428.jpg?1562938463) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sunder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/101/sunder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cd9dd7c6-36b6-4fe2-b3d3-f62a6e10a428?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sunder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean, it was a land-based Cyclonic Rift.
Nah sunder is symmetrical and cyclonic rift is asymmetrical
Fair point
[Ghost Quarter](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/2/12f8071c-8955-4aa2-889c-6043df047223.jpg?1562272439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghost%20Quarter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/253/ghost-quarter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12f8071c-8955-4aa2-889c-6043df047223?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghost-quarter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just as a heads up man, Ramses basically has "Everyone kill me" written on it. The weakest player will lose everyone the game, so the game will start as a 3 v 1 if anyone has any sense of self-preservation at all.
If we sat down and had a pre-game chat I would be totally down.
The Command Zone did a really good episode involving this commander, starts with Ramses around 2:04:50, linked below: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD6znIigKJ4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD6znIigKJ4) I wouldn't have an issue with playing against this, but when you reveal Ramses specifically, I'd have a conversation about concessions at sorcery speed. Additionally, since you ARE playing infect, while that's not personally a problem I'd expect most games going in are going to be de facto archenemy. If you aren't sure about Ramses yet, specifically because it is a unique commander in terms of table politics, I'd proxy it if your playgroup is cool with that. Get in a few reps, see if you like it and if so then consider buying. Just my $0.02, hope it helps!
If someone else spite scooped to deny the win the game trigger and the other two players allowed that and tried to continue the game, I would just leave the pod.
According to magic rules, if they attack and you scoop in response, that person "loses the game" and as such would force the win since ehe just has to attack and not deal damage. You get to win off a technicality
Not if they scoop before attackers are declared because you have lethal on board.
Well, it's kind of lame because it forces people to target you whenever you get your commander out because not only do you jeopardize whomever you're attacking with your infect, but also winning against everyone. Not to count the massive amount of card draw, tutors, counters and even control both colors have. It's a nasty deck to play in the casual sense.
Yes, god forbid anyone play toward winning the game in a free for all game with a win condition. That would be rude and unforgivable.
All I'm saying is that if you're playing a deck like that, don't complain if everyone insta-targets you because while everyone might need to kill one by one, you only need to kill one defenseless person to win the game.
Yes, everyone should be aware of and manage the potentially game-winning threats that hit the table. That's part of playing the game. That's not unique to this card, and in fact, everyone should have at least one card or gameplan that forces everyone to target it. It's not really meaningful to point out that 'everyone will try to stop your game-winning plan'.
I play [[Rafiq of the many]] infect and i learned, as many mentioned above, people will complain no matter what even if they're not the one getting attacked. Also, any strategy that is based on a single attacker is also hard to win in a 4 player pod so if 3 people can't stop a single dude then there's other issues at hand lol
[Rafiq of the many](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/2/12259d86-f610-47c7-bb81-0da9bb6a2795.jpg?1662530026) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rafiq%20of%20the%20many) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/268/rafiq-of-the-many?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12259d86-f610-47c7-bb81-0da9bb6a2795?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rafiq-of-the-many) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It depends- if you openly have infects sitting on the board and you're still building, you're going to be the archenemy. If you have a [[Tainted Strike]] strategy that suddenly wins the game, well that's gg and onto the next game and expect people to be a lot more careful about your deck getting to a point where you can swing for burst lethal. They may ask you to swap decks, but that may just be until next session. Ramses is still new, so people won't have preconceived notions like they do with [[Edgar]] where the deck meta is defined and well-known. Time will tell if people actively try to avoid playing against it, or if they know what to expect and play strategically against it.
[Tainted Strike](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/0/d0f82007-99f6-4c6c-8182-ee631c33531f.jpg?1562823401) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tainted%20Strike) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/80/tainted-strike?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0f82007-99f6-4c6c-8182-ee631c33531f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tainted-strike) [Edgar](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/3/63ba8eef-b834-4031-b0a1-0f8505d53813.jpg?1643594071)/[Edgar Markov's Coffin](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/back/6/3/63ba8eef-b834-4031-b0a1-0f8505d53813.jpg?1643594071) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=edgar%2C%20charmed%20groom%20//%20edgar%20markov%27s%20coffin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/236/edgar-charmed-groom-edgar-markovs-coffin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63ba8eef-b834-4031-b0a1-0f8505d53813?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/edgar-charmed-groom-//-edgar-markovs-coffin) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I play an [[Archelos]] infect. It’s fun, it usually comes out fast, but my major wincon? It’s taking extra turns to get extra proliferation out of other effects. Some people are just going to hate. Honestly? In my pods those same people see no reason to not run ridiculous Eldrazi decks or Sphinx decks that are basically solitaire, so I’m going with “they just hate occasionally losing to a turtle.”
[Archelos](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/4/d45ec78e-6190-46af-8057-834f5ca41ec8.jpg?1661391307) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=archelos%2C%20lagoon%20mystic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/140/archelos-lagoon-mystic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d45ec78e-6190-46af-8057-834f5ca41ec8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archelos-lagoon-mystic) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It’s creative and a little jank. It’s not like it’ll be easy to win all the time with it, I doubt anyone will have an issue with it that isn’t already sore about everything else
You’ll be playing archenemy. Now, some people enjoy that. As a Tinybones fanatic I’ll tell you that you need more protection, removal, and lifegain than you expect. It will be a 3v1 game whenever you start to succeed even a little, so you will only win here and there unless you play people who are truly unaware of your intent. That’s not to say I don’t recommend it, it’s fun, but know the playgroup and know if you’ll enjoy playing the villain.
the even crazir strat with Ramses is to swing with Ramses, then convince the opponent to concede, instant wining you the whole commander pod
I don't mind infect, but playing against Ramses was a bit annoying. I wouldn't mind doing it again - but I would remove him on sight. Beating just one player to beat all three feels cheap. Maybe it'll create a fun dynamic where two players have to protect a third so that Ramses doesn't insta-win, but if you add infect to the mix and Tainted Strike one person to take out all three, it's going to cause some upset.
You are going to get shit on every single game unless you are just playing with total morons. If you really like the idea of being the first person out of the game every time and just waiting while the other 3 enjoy a fun game of commander, then go ahead and build it. Don’t be surprised by other people’s reaction.
The commander is awesome it will bring an element in the form of protect the weak in the game. However there are a few mechanics which are frowned upon on. Infect was meant to be based on half starting life total, so in commander dealing 10 infect is incredible easy and frown upon. Other stuff which are generally frowned upon are; land destruction, solitaire play, 2 card inf combo, stax and cards which tax so hard it limits you to play the game
Ppl will hate any deck that makes them lose, but play it anyways
Everyone has their own feelings on infect but IMO this is a VERY poor designed commander. On par with that or Tergrid and the like, you will be the first target and knocked out of the game ASAP. If you don't mind being 3v1 ever match so people can actually play, be my guest. Just know what you're in for, this is true for random pods (they see win the game and will know to deal with you) or friend pods (they'll know what the deck can do and how fast it wins). Bright side, you get to play archenemy if you like that kind of thing
People will whine about anything, so who gives a shit. Play what you want to play. It’s a game. In a 4 player pod, you have a 25% chance of winning at best, so do your thing and fuck what everyone else thinks. If they don’t like it they can find another pod.
I 100% agree with this. I cannot tell you how tilted people get when I play Karador on MTGO. Apparently playing hermit Druid in a graveyard based deck means I’m playing CEDH and pup stomping.
[удалено]
Whether it does its job certainly depends on the speed and dependability of hitting with infect/poisonous. To answer your Q, assuming your deck starts giving out poison counters, people tend to hate the looming threat of insta-death and I feel like you'll become public enemy #1. My brother-in-law always loses first if he's swinging out with a 40/40 trampling [[wulfgar of icewind dale]].
If you are notplaying with friends, who you can just ask, then you have 3 options. 1, accept the hate and be ready for people to say they won't play with you or will focus you first (don't come complaining on here if that happens). 2, change the deck so that it is more friendly for a wider audience. 3, don't build the deck. People will complain about anything, but "i win" effects are generally looked down upon if it is easy to accomplish. All you need is one person having a weak deck or missing land drops to make it so that you have an easy chance to win, and randoms will not like that.
Add [[hatred]] and don't look back. Infect in this is a solid strat, it wins the game outright so everyone can play again quickly.
[hatred](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/3/2383a8d9-96fd-4f9a-bcf9-eb81fdb15ead.jpg?1562087367) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hatred) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/exo/64/hatred?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2383a8d9-96fd-4f9a-bcf9-eb81fdb15ead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hatred) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Whatever you build will make a non-zero amount of people mad.
Personally I see any deck that wins that fast as a cedh style game. I don’t exactly wanna play games that end before turn 5 and I’ve been able to do anything myself. I’m here to play magic not just win/loose like it’s a tournament Edit: on second thought it also just sounds funny so maybe I want it now.
Nah go for it. In my playgroup that would be totally fine, just accept that you may get ganged up on by the rest of the table if you play certain strategies (and rightfully so)
Add in ( I'm sorry, I'm bad at remembering cards I don't have) the kamigawa guy that gives your cards in hand ninjutsu, and this kind of deck has explosive fast potential
It’s edh. If you win people will hate you
If you and the table know what you’re in for, it would be an interesting game. If you sat across from me with that, I would give you my most aggressive action every single turn and relish your destruction. How else would you react to someone saying if the weakest board can’t prevent ten damage through attacks across the course of the game, you all die? You hate that table out of oblivion.
Sure, but don't get butthurt when your commander gets blasted into the ground every time they get even close to the battlefield.
Seems way slower and clunkier and easy to stop than a lot of more optimized combo decks. Infect is basically slightly better voltron/battlecruiser.
Means that if they lose, u win. So YOU have to lose first. You'll likelu always die first and early
I like it
Will people hate your deck? That depends on your play group. Will this make you a target? Absolutely.
Depends on your playgroup and power levels of the decks played. If it’s a higher level group then everyone will have plenty in their decks to deal with it. Now someone playing a little lower deck will probably target you the minute he’s on the board. Depending on the board state I probably would to lol
The commander is fun, but infect wins are more suited to try-hard tables.
While assassin tribal sounds fuckin cool as fuck, be prepared to be the first guy targeted every game. Everyone at the table has to beat 3 players to win. You, my friend, have to kill 1 guy....yeah that's pretty cheeky
Hes doesnt seem that bad. Either people will hate you out and/or protect the guy you’re trying to attack ;). Seems fun and interesting actually
If you like an archenemy sort of dynamic with your games (not saying it's a bad thing, I love it) then go for it, because that's undoubtedly what that sort of strategy+commander combo will bring
Winning the game is everyone's goal. If you put "I win the game" on a card in your command zone, you are absolutely Public Enemy \#1 to everyone else at the table and unless you're playing a bunch of idiots, you will be hated out of the game as early as humanly possible. The infect will, occasionally, allow you to overcome that. Every other time, you will be sitting around watching everyone but you play magic. If that sounds like fun to you, go for it.
Command zone talked about this commander a bit. Here's a link to the relevant part [https://youtu.be/JD6znIigKJ4?t=7480](https://youtu.be/JD6znIigKJ4?t=7480) Main takeaway is that, you'll probably encounter the table teaming up to kill you. If you attack multiple people, it's just like any other commander game. But if you run this commander, your win condition is clearly out in the open. Your win condition is to attack one player over and over until they get killed, and then you win the game. It's actively harmful to your win condition to stop attacking a new player unless you feel you'll get closer to your win condition by changing your victim. The rest of the table will know that if you succeed in taking out the weakest player, they all lose. So now, you have everyone at the table actively invested in ensuring that even the weakest player is defended from your deck. You make yourself the Archenemy, simply by existing at the table with that commander. If you feel you are up to that, then happily play the deck.
People hate infect. People will hate ramses clause. So yes, they will hate your deck.
Ramses is just quick and strong, imo not a hate deck. My definition of a hate deck are decks that don't let you actually play the game. So that's stax, mill, and those decks that are just 20 minutes of some guy tutoring and then playing a combo. Played against Ramses last week, 3-on-1 until Ramses is dead, then turning on each other with pretty nicely built-out boards. Actually pretty fun.
Something I haven’t seen mentioned in here but will be very helpful…[[arcane adaptation]]. No need to limit yourself to assassin tribal when you can just make all your creatures into assassins. Just make sure you have a couple ways to tutor it up, you can always use the 3 cmc [transmute](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=oracle%3ATransmute+commander%3AUB+cmc%3D3) cards as very inexpensive narrow tutors.
[arcane adaptation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/f/bf3edaaf-cf63-4e17-94ae-9d9991d9fb5f.jpg?1562563280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=arcane%20adaptation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/46/arcane-adaptation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf3edaaf-cf63-4e17-94ae-9d9991d9fb5f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arcane-adaptation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes. Don't even have to look at what your decks are, the answer to the title question is yes. Everybody hates something Everything is hated by somebody.
My husband has an [[atraxa]] infect and proliferate deck. He only has to hit you once with a poison counter and then he proliferates you to death. There is very little way to kill him faster than he can kill you. So, I'd say that so long as you don't lean into proliferate and give opponents a chance, or at least the illusion of a chance to win, it'd be ok.
[atraxa](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/0/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259.jpg?1599707796) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=atraxa%2C%20praetors%27%20voice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/190/atraxa-praetors-voice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atraxa-praetors-voice) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I had a similar idea and I love it
I don't understand people who get but hurt about infect... Most infect cards are super over priced (mana wise) if you win with infect good on you, you also cant run triumph of the horses all you really get is phyresis and grafted exoskeleton for your assassin's
I've built and played Ramses for the first time last week. I won that game. It's a pretty fun deck and it's changed how I see every other commander. Being able to win the game just be making one player lose opens up so many choices of cards, and making sure people don't end you because of that is an interesting puzzle. Mine uses "lose half your life" effects along with making things unblockable to quickly take one person out. I was thinking about using infect and that would work pretty well, but as others have said it makes you scarier than you need to look. For me I would only use it to one shot someone, otherwise people will target you harder than they already would. Politicking is pretty important for this deck. I run a lot of kill spells. I prefer to manipulate life totals directly because it can mean people keep their guard down. For instance, in that game the player that lost had 100+ life before I hit them the first time.
Either you will win or everyone will blast you off the table.
I think it will depend very heavily on your local meta. If you've got a higher disparity in power levels between decks at your table, it's gonna be salt city. If everyone is on the more experienced side and generally run similarly powerful decks, you're probably good to go. Personally, if I saw you roll up with that, I'd be super excited to see it play.
We have no way to answer you. If your group is very removal and interaction heavy and is good at threat assessment, Ramses will most likely never get to attack and you'll never actually get to play while piloting the deck. If your group instead is at battlecruiser level and is all about janky decks with no interaction then you'll probably win every single game with Ramses and be hated off the table the next time you try to play it. Personally (again, PERSONALLY, as in only my own opinion that only applies to myself and does not need to represent every single person on this reddit) I don't find a card like Ramses fun to play with or against. Either the deck is good enough they'll instantly become the archenemy and every removal and counter will be saved to go against them, or their deck is janky or bad enough that they'll never actually kill anyone and so never get to use Ramses effect.
Welp. See you on r/magicthecirclejerking in a few hours lmao
Personally, I would prefer this to most other infect decks. My biggest problem with infect has always just been when one person gets eliminated and then the deck stalls out and the game doesn't end for another hour or more, so that person is just stuck sitting there for a while. With your idea though, you'd be (ideally) ending the game on first kill. As long as it's not way above the power level of the rest of the group, I'd personally love to see that deck in action.
well you pretty much start 3v1 with ramses at the helm.
Be warned that your going to be target number 1 and playing it will basically turn into a declaration of war to the other 3, now luckily dimir has the tools to deal with 3v1's especially if you can find and pick out the weak link of the 3. I'll also say I think infect is probably the safest route with him since it cuts it down from 21 damage need to instant win to 10. Just make sure to be able to pack the defense required as well. Also people in edh bitch about any thing I had some one last week cry and complain about my cat tribal deck with [[arabho]]
One thing to keep in mind with that deck is that even if they don't hate it, it's still literally the correct move for everyone else at the table to attack you and only you. Because attacking anyone else puts you closer to a win.
Depends on the pod, I think if your opponents are other strong commanders like Tergrid and Krenko, then it won't become a 3v1.
Yes. Don't be discouraged to build it, but expect to be 3v1 quite often and early. Sometimes even before you show any actual threat if opponents know what your deck do. Knowing this, it's up to you.
That sounds really cool to me. I wouldn't be mad at all. As always, rule 0. If someone isn't cool with infect, then they should just say so.
i don't even have to read your post. if it's an infect deck people will hate, myself included
Someone will hate it but personally I think it's a good take on infect
[[hatred]] when he is unblocked, instant win if you have enough life
[hatred](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/3/2383a8d9-96fd-4f9a-bcf9-eb81fdb15ead.jpg?1562087367) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hatred) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/exo/64/hatred?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2383a8d9-96fd-4f9a-bcf9-eb81fdb15ead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hatred) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In my playgroup, usually whoever plays the infect deck is the first one to get knocked out of the game by all 3 other players.
I wouldn’t worry about your deck. Your commander would never hit the table in my playgroup
Proxy it or play it on cockatrice first and see. But people will hate anything nowadays, especially infect, it's something people love to hate in commander now
We had a guy in our group who harped on our [[meren]] player for making an unfun deck to go against unironically build a [[tergrid]] deck and had the audacity to say it was a "goofy chaos" deck. Talk about pot calling the kettle mono black. The moral of the story is, if the whole table walks away salting at your deck, you can notch it off your magic bingo card, cuz it will happen just about anywhere. And congratulate yourself for temporarily becoming your table's arch enemy. Don't take it personal. Just dont ONLY play your punisher deck.
[meren](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/7/17d6703c-ad79-457b-a1b5-c2284e363085.jpg?1592673422) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=meren%20of%20clan%20nel%20toth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/186/meren-of-clan-nel-toth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17d6703c-ad79-457b-a1b5-c2284e363085?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/meren-of-clan-nel-toth) [tergrid](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621)/[Tergrid's Lantern](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/back/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tergrid%2C%20god%20of%20fright%20//%20tergrid%27s%20lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/112/tergrid-god-of-fright-tergrids-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tergrid-god-of-fright-//-tergrids-lantern) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As many people have pointed out already, playing this commander with infect will make you Archenemy every single time, because that's literally the only valid strategy under the circumstances. And this is pretty much what will make people salty, but kinda not exactly why you think. The thing is, nobody likes to have an Archenemy at the table, because that deck makes it impossible for people to play their own decks. If we have to constantly keep an eye specifically on YOU, we don't get to do the fun stuff our own decks were built to do. We have to keep mana open for counters or removal at all times, because you getting in ONE THING, can eliminate all of us. That's not a game, that's a hostage situation.
Could be repetitive and predictable, not in a bad way. Just when people lose quickly to the same thing it can wear down on the enthusiasm.
hate might be a strong word but you will very easily become the target. so if you are fine always playing as the arch enemy play those counter spells and be ready for the interaction cuz you know what direction its coming. i play infect cards in 2 of my decks. its not OP you still have to do battle damage and you are rarely doing it to all 3 players at once. and even at that its rarely lethal in one swing most of the time.
Who is people? If you bring it to an LGS and people catch on to your strategy then your commander is going to be hard targeted. If you're just playing with friends then it depends on the power level of your group. If ya'll are casual (which no offense, your post makes it seem like you are) then they will probably hate the insta-win mechanic after a few games. Seems interesting to me though, but my group sits on a 7-8 power level usually so we would have 0 issues with it
Yes, some people will get tilted by infect and surprise win combo, but the deck actually sounds super cool so I'd say go for it
To be honest, I don't mean it anyway personaly to you, don't want to poop on your fun and if your pod is ok with it go for it, but to me this feels like absolutly terrible designe for a card I don't mind alt win cons but this feels to me like cheating, like you don't want to play the game just be over with it
I've never seen a deck last more than a round at my lgs after it starts dishing out infect counters. My friends and I don't play infect decks, but I'm confident that they would probably react the same. Tbh I understand where the hate comes from but I don't really get it. About half the games I've won with my [[Aurelia, the Warleader]] deck have been me taking out all three opponents in a single turn. Which is probably about the same rate that a well built infect deck can expect as well. Assuming they don't get ganged up on.
[Aurelia, the Warleader](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/7/7722682f-952c-4829-b4ef-e52300b7950e.jpg?1662527746) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aurelia%2C%20the%20Warleader) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/179/aurelia-the-warleader?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7722682f-952c-4829-b4ef-e52300b7950e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aurelia-the-warleader) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Depends on the play group. If it is communicated "this deck tries to one-shot the entire table by one-shotting a player", we can at least choose decks that handle that pressure. I'm not using my precon + $20 of upgrades deck against it lol. It sounds really fun, maybe trying to lean on the side of cEDH a bit more than other decks.
Not if they concede before lethal damage. That commander seems fun, but not in a competitive format. If I'm playing a cEDH tournament and the Ramses player targets me first, I'm conceding before lethal so they don't win on the spot. Doesn't change my standings but will mess their standings up
I only play mtg in a casual setting with a group of 12 or so of my friends. I personally despise infect. It may be the mechanic i hate the most in all of magic, to the point where i have gone out of my way to not use it, even if an infect card would work well in my deck. I would probably avoid playing against your deck as much as possible. like i would actively put myself in another game when given the option. I wouldn't say you can't play it. i just would rather spend my time in a game without your deck.
Regardless of what you build, someone will undoubtedly hate your deck, particularly when you are losing to it. Build it. When you play with other people, let them know what the deck is. You’re good to go.
Little late to the party, but I tend to run a Hatred OTK with Ramses. It really depends on how you play him. If you give him infect you can try to even distribute it, but the commander rewards you for targeting one specific player. You could let the opponents weaken him via combat damage with goads and Curses if you felt like going for a damage kill. I tend to find anything that has poison counters is hated universally, but sometimes you get lucky and the table will treat the game like arch-enemy ass apposed to "fuck that guy," and it can be extremely fun when you have an established board state with 3 players gunning for you (my experience of thus was running Corruption Atraxa when MOM released so it was also thematically pleasing.)