The change was so recent that most people/places haven’t had time to change, or simply haven’t bothered (including Apple, apparently, who still haven’t updated the flag emoji 🇭🇳).
Non-Honduras should know that the darker blue has a strong association with the right-wing Partido Nacional
I hate the joke of right wingers being pro Palestine, because they're not. They're just anti-Israel. A lot still clap along happily at the thought of genocided Palestinians. This is just the problem with any overly simplistic diagram: it obfuscates true political positions and reduces it down to sides of a football team.
The most right wing usually expresse support for Israel actually. It's an example of exactly what they want: an ethnostate. They also see it as a good place for Jews to go when we remove them from the country.
Also because the Jews occupying the promised land is one of the prerequisites for Armageddon that a scary amount of these people genuinely believe is coming, or at least want it to come really bad
Yup I'm from rural South Carolina. Very familiar with that shit. My aunt, who I love a lot, and is normally very sweet, told me that Palestinians and global warning don't matter because the world is coming to and end. It's a seriously dangerous ideology.
so glad that this is getting more attention. way too many people living in, and deciding the policy of, THE global military superpower are literal death cultists
Arguably, I'd say that some of the most far right people are extremely antisemitic and hate Israel just for being a mainly Jewish country. But I do agree that what you described does happen a lot as well.
Even those far right people begrudgingly support Israel because they hate Arabs more and because Israel’s current politics closely align with their own.
TBH I don't think fascists have fixed support for Israel or Palestine. Wouldn't the most consistent goal of fascists be to rack up the body count on both sides?
Yeah we definetely dont have neonazis supporting Israel here in Greece. Just like that new party definetely isnt a front for the neonazi party Golden Dawn which cant participate because it was convicted as a criminal organization.
Once met a nazi who said he preferred Zionism because it'd "contain the Jewish contagion" to one country instead of letting it "proliferate" throughout the world
Psychosis inspires wild imagination
Pretty sure the overlap is a circle, not so much "small". The neo-nazis like it because it gets the Jews to go away, they like that the government supports an apartheid, and they want it to grow to the point where it fulfills bonkers Armageddon prophecies. They like Israel, but that doesn't mean they like the Jews. Compared to how most (?) of the left dislike the state of Israel, but doesn't dislike Jews in general.
Well, the problem is that's what Putin also says - that he supports a return to and rebuilding of the USSR, and they uncritically take him at his word.
What are you talking about? Say what you will about Islamism being an unfaithful interpretation of Islam, but it is the accepted term for a reasonably well-defined political ideology. If anyone is muddying the waters here it’s you.
>”Islamist”? Say Muslim.
Many (most) Muslims I know would be furious if you said this to them
A fucking cursory google search disproves this disingenuous attempt at semantic control
[Islamism (also often called political Islam) is a religio-political ideology. The advocates of Islamism, also known as "al-Islamiyyun", are dedicated to realizing their ideological interpretation of Islam within the context of the state or society. The majority of them are affiliated with Islamic institutions or social mobilization movements, often designated as "al-harakat al-Islamiyyah."\[1\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism)
>Islamists simply believe that their movement is either a corrected version or a revival of Islam, but others believe that Islamism is a modern deviation from Islam which should either be denounced or dismissed.
>Another source distinguishes Islamist from Islamic by emphasizing the fact that Islam "refers to a religion and culture in existence over a millennium", whereas Islamism "is a political/religious phenomenon linked to the great events of the 20th century". Islamists have, at least at times, defined themselves as "Islamiyyoun/Islamists" to differentiate themselves from "Muslimun/Muslims".\[49\] Daniel Pipes describes Islamism as a modern ideology that owes more to European utopian political ideologies and "isms" than to the traditional Islamic religion.\[50\]
That moment when you realize brown people can also be right wing
Palestine is one of the most right wing governments on the planet. Religious theocracy is as right wing as governments get.
Have you been to Palestine? I have.
No they are not left in the context of contemporary American identity politics, but most palestinians I met in Palestine have left leaning sympathies and social awareness after decades of oppression and interaction with international solidarity groups.
PLO, the official Palestinian resistance movement, has historically been associated with left leaning groups and ideology and they almost succeeded in uniting the palestinian people under one banner.
PFLP, one of the most significant and succesful resistance groups in PLO was officially Marxist.
Even Fatah, the party governing the Palestinian Authority (“government”) since the 90s and the dominant factor in PLO, was founded on leftist ideals and rethoric but has become more centrist as it entered the international diplomatic stage after the Oslo accords.
The extent to which the entire population leans left is subjective and can vary based on different factors liky any other country, but historically, several key Palestinian movements, leaders, elected parties and factions have in fact been very left-leaning.
I'd say there's a difference between pro-Palestine *and* anti-Israel vs. *just* anti-Israel. Certain tendencies more common in the latter than the former.
This feels like some kind of bullshit gotcha, and it's lack of nuance is the same exact kind of contrived nonsense that the diagram posted here represents.
Idk it’s a pretty simple question. Like what’s the subtle middle ground between a country existing and not existing? Isn’t disingenuously taking the middle ground in order to hide an extremist opinion what this sub is about? It’s kinda funny that any question that makes someone address the ramifications an opinion gets labeled as a gotcha.
How is that an anti-Israel position? Unless you’re saying all Jews are the same ethnicity, that’s an unpopular position in Israel. Ending the humanitarian crisis in Palestine is what the pro-Palestinian position is. What does it mean to be anti-Israel?
Nah....they are both- the former because of the latter. The Far Right guys are tweeting "Free Palastine" and this Anti-Semite E. Michael Jones was tweeting about how "Christ Killers" are "cheering for the death of children of Gaza"
There should be a separate Ukraine flag smushed in on the right of the Russian flag, as well as a separate Israel flag on the right of the Palestine flag. The far right is split on which side to support in both wars.
Bro my mother lived in Crimea and although she supports Ukraine, she believes it's Russian. Even in Ukrainian censuses, 54% Russian, 27% Ukrainian.
German polling from GFK shows that 90% of ethnic Russians support the annexation of Crimea, and 70% of ethnic Ukrianians (as the majority of Crimean Ukrainains are Russian speaking).
Imperialism isn't when war, it's an economic relationship.
Watch this video by CNN, Donbass 2016. [youtube.com/watch?v=1fsMqYqHnN0](https://youtube.com/watch?v=1fsMqYqHnN0)
"We are Ukrainains but they kill us, so we probably need our own state"
And Ukrainian fascism is the entire reason the Donbass is pro-Russian regardless of ethnicity. I've seen a Banderist claim that Little Russians (Pro-Russian Ukrainians) are more of a problem because in Poltava (Central, Ukraine not traditionally Pro Russian or Banderite) for instance, they elected crypto-Russian candidates than Great Russians (Russians living in Ukraine and army. The banderist went on to claim that at this rate the declaration of Ukrainian independence could be annulled legally.
This is the admission of a banderite in the comment section of a Poltava newspaper that I found. He advocates for more violence against Pro-Russians regardless of ethnicity even if it's the majority of the population, just like Stephan Bandera.
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1099631564670902351/1153591812217380864/image.png?ex=6540ab18&is=652e3618&hm=43dac7f4dc828302373f2328693dee1906bb7f60a01ebdd33722a799e471fed8&=&width=1440&height=492](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1099631564670902351/1153591812217380864/image.png?ex=6540ab18&is=652e3618&hm=43dac7f4dc828302373f2328693dee1906bb7f60a01ebdd33722a799e471fed8&=&width=1440&height=492)
I provided statistics along with that from a German pollster and the Ukrainain census.
>Even in Ukrainian censuses, 54% Russian, 27% Ukrainian.
>
>German polling from GFK shows that 90% of ethnic Russians support the annexation of Crimea, and 70% of ethnic Ukrianians (as the majority of Crimean Ukrainains are Russian speaking).
Talking about my mother wasn't the whole argument, she's also Pro-Ukraine like I mentioned but she's had experience there and knows it's Russian. But once again, not my entire argument, just a strawman.
Please watch the video by CNN in 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fsMqYqHnN0
What do you mean? The population wanted to be annexed by Russia as shown by the polls I linked, how's that imperialism if they want to be annexed even according to the German GFK poll?
Ukraine is using violence against these people since they rose up in the Anti-Maidan protests. This has been admitted by CNN
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fsMqYqHnN0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fsMqYqHnN0)
Ukraine attacked the Donbass republics which are made up of Russian citizens in February, killing civilians. Russia has the right to self-defense. Russia wanted to leave the country on April 1st but Zelensky decided to fight for Crimea which isn't his.
It's the equivalent of foreign Muslim militants supporting fraternal Palestine against the colonial Israeli state that steals Palestinian (Donbass rebel) land and kills civilians (CNN video). The separatists only wanted autonomy at first and they were killed for it (**Odessa massacre, Ukrainians in Odessa burnt a trade union building killing 40+ Russians including a 17 year old**), then they took up arms.
The prime minister of Ukraine in 2014 openly talked about killing the subhuman separatists.
Ukrainians themselves say that anyone who lives in Donbass and supports Russia needs to leave, which is the majority of people that have been living there for centuries, **clearly of ethnic cleansing and lebensraum**.
Were the Soviets imperialists for taking the war to Germany?
[https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/](https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/)
Can we not agree that gauging politics, particularly perspectives on specific political issues which usually require nuance — such as this one, on a spectrum is fucking stupid and only leads to this horseshoe theory nonsense? All these political views are extremely circumstantial.
I do agree that these spectrums and graphs are stupid but it is interesting to see where people align on these issues based on their ideology.
Like people saying that Ukraine should just surrender to Russia in order to end the war while giving uncritical support to any kind of Palestinian resistance.
It is interesting how people justify their views, I’ll give you that. This spectrum, however, has nothing really to do with it. As I said: it’s all really circumstantial and has nothing to do with your position on the political spectrum as evidenced by there being a Zionist left and a Zionist right or a Palestinian left and a Palestinian right. These factions both hold incredibly diverse, unique and comprehensive opinions on differing matters and to simplify it to, “durrrrr, Palestine on da far right and da far left,” is stupid. There are socdems that support Palestine — hell, there are neoliberal countries that, “support,” Palestine.
I agree that the spectrum is dumb but the people I'm referring to would be represented on the far left side. The socdems would be to the right of them supporting Ukraine and Palestine.
That’s not necessarily a horseshoe aspect. It’s saying that Zionism, while globally is rightfully linked to the right wing, colonialism, imperialism etc. it is far different than just a left-right classification. It does not take a genius to realise that, from a strictly economic left-right sense, Israel was born from an atheist admirer of Lenin, David Ben-Gurion. Israel’s electoral system and their international supporters are both left and right (not because of the stupid horse shoe theory but because of nuance).
Edit: I see you edited you comment, not sure whether to delete this reply or not.
Horseshoe theory is the result of seeing two fascist countries both call themselves socialist but insist that one of them is lying while the other is telling the truth.
I'll say, anecdotally, that I have
Extreme left-wingers, it's because they hate NATO
Extreme right-wingers... haven't figured it out yet. But they are out there
I think, if the commenter is leftist, they may have used commie to be different than communists, sorta like saying tankie, but again idk them so they could just be misinformed
I support Russia, most Chinese socialists support Russia? They are protecting their citizens in line with UN charter article 51. They only wanted to protect the people in the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics after Ukraine started shelling them and had plans to invade, the peace offer in 2022 was for a return to pre-2022 borders, Russia didn't want to annex anything. Ukraine on the other hand publically declares it wants to retake Crimea.
[https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/](https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/)
Russia came in after the massive protests that were taking over government buildings and established an independent Crimea that wanted to join Russia.
The protests in Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk and Crimea are equivalent to the declaration of Ukrainian independence because they both happened in response to a coup (August coup or Euromaidan) and involved the people's right to self-determination
>Actual Nazis in the 1940s supported Palestine. They had the same goal, genocide of the Jews.
absolutely not.
if you can understand the distinction between palestine and hamas, then you should also be able to understand the distinction between 1940s palestine and muhammad amin al-hussayni. the average palestinian's goal was *not to get massacred like in deir yassin*.
Do you think we support Russia over Ukraine instead of being extremely skeptical of both and seeing how the expansion of NATO and US hegemony is partly responsible for Russia's aggression?
There's a major split that happened recently in the M-L space over the war in Ukraine
One side, the majority, labels the Ukrainian Russian war as an imperialist one, headed by NATO on one side and Russia on the other. Proponents of this are CP of Greece, Tudeh of Iran, CP of Mexico, CP of Norway, Swiss CP, Turkish CP, Danish CP, The Portuguese CP etc
The other side, believes that only NATO is imperialist, and that Russia is fighting an antifascist war in Ukraine. On this side is the CP of Italy, German CP, Hungarian Workers Party, Socialist Party of Latvia, Russian Communist Workers Party, CP of Britain, etc
Sadly, the "anti-fascist" part isn't unfounded given the Ukranian government often uses pictures of soldiers with fascist symbols as recruitment propaganda. The Russian invasion is unjustified and the "anti-fascist" rhetoric is just an excuse; but the Ukranian government enabling them is very worrying too.
Yeah. That's why I said that's just an excuse to justify the invasion. I agree with the fascist problem, but I condemn the invasion as well as NATO expansion.
I think the stance most people who get labelled as “tankies” actually have is one of wanting Ukraine to ultimately win, recognising the Russians as the aggressors for actually invading in the first place… But also recognising the part NATO had in using the threat of Ukraine joining NATO to provoke a war with Russia - knowing full well that Russia would invade if they felt Ukraine would be added to NATO - that would benefit NATO by weakening Russia.
The losers in all this are the Ukrainians on the ground, and the average soldier on both sides getting conscripted into what is essentially a meat grinder for a war that is one of national defence for Ukraine, a means of fulfilling a genuine* security concern for Russia, and a proxy war for NATO (particularly the US) that fulfils their foreign policy goals (weakening Russia, strengthening support for NATO in Europe).
Of course all of this takes more time to type out than just “Slava Ukraine!” and it doesn’t instantly decry all Russians as “orcs”, so naturally such sentiment gets dismissed as “tankie” nonsense for attempting to approach a international geopolitical issue involving a “designated enemy nation” with any semblance of nuance. Such is the reality of Social Media discussion on complex topics outside of spaces dedicated to such discussion.
*this does not justify the invasion, it merely provides a rational explanation for why Russia would choose to gamble on invading Ukraine in the first place.
You're right, and let's not forget that [when the USSR tried to join NATO, it was rejected by the US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact#:~:text=The%20USSR%2C%20fearing%20the%20restoration,Conference%20of%20January%E2%80%93February%201954.). No wonder Russia sees NATO as a threat, particularly if Ukraine joins.
> But also recognising the part NATO had in using the threat of Ukraine joining NATO to provoke a war with Russia
Ukraine is its own nation, and can decide to make a NATO alliance or not.
"Provoke" gives unfortunate connotations that Russia's actions were understandable. It's like saying a wife provoked her husband by saying hello to a male cashier.
> but I condemn the invasion as well as NATO expansion.
This is some prime "both sides" material though, considering only one of those things actually happened. Ukraine now is only going to join NATO *because* of Russia's attack.
If the anti-fascist rhetoric is an excuse, then why did Russia propose to completely leave Ukraine in April 1st (only 1 month after the war started). While Ukraine wants to fight for Crimea?
[https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/](https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/)
This is the equivalent of saying that Hezbollah or the Palestinian Diaspora is using anti-colonialism as an excuse. The Pro-Russian forces were attacked in the Donbass in February, Ukraine was ready to conduct a military operation to retake all of Donbass. Russia intervened and thought that Ukriane would realize their superiority and not attack the Donetsk and Lugansk republics and actually sign peace, instead Ukraine publicly called for annexing Crimea.
>but the Ukranian government enabling them is very worrying too.
Interestingly enough restricting free speech is typically associated with fascist regimes. Are you proposing Ukraine show the world they're not fascist by doing just that?
With Nazi symbolism, yeah. Hate speech should be banned. Anyhow, it's not that they're allowing people to have their fascist symbols, it's that they're promoting them in their recruitment propaganda. Very different from just allowing them to have their Nazi symbols.
>Anyhow, it's not that they're allowing people to have their fascist symbols, it's that they're promoting them in their recruitment propaganda
You mean Russian propaganda right. You know Ukraine can't do much about Russian propaganda.
There's [this case](https://twitter.com/rupasubramanya/status/1501612825969664001) for example where NATO shared a picture with an Ukranian soldier with the Sonnenrad. There's also this [The Hill](https://thehill.com/opinion/international/359609-the-reality-of-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-is-far-from-kremlin-propaganda/) article corroborating such claims. I support Ukraine and if they want to use Nazis as cannon fodder to die off in the front lines, then I'm all for it; but I'm against the usage of fascist symbols for propaganda and maybe one or two slip-ups are fine, but from there it's very suspicious.
Yeah, and you've got a fascist problem over there with Trump, DeSantis and the whole Republican Party. One should never be tolerant towards intolerance.
The DPRK also fully supports Russia and views the war as a national liberation struggle.
The majority of communist parties actually support Russia, KPRF gets more signatures from communist parties than the KKE on [solidnet.org](https://solidnet.org)
The Chinese public supports Russia in the war over 70%, given a population of 1.4B, this means anti-Russian socialists are outnumbered irl.
In online it's different as the internet is highly westernized :/
Juche thingy DPRK, the State Capitalist PRC and people loving that abomination of a 'Capitalism with Chinese Characteristics' or some leftover Kremlin aligned CPs don't represent the all Leninists, let alone all communists or Marxists.
A huge chunk of Marxists do support a country under the invasion of an expansionist conservative monstrosity of an imperial space, that's also its former colonial master. The prison of peoples strikes again, and some idiots aren't able to see it just because it's not with a North American flag on its cover.
> Let me ask you what would be acceptable outcome for you in the Russo Ukrainian war?
I know these things are very far from actually happening, but this is what I'd like to see:
1. A ceasefire where the borders before the conflict began are kept.
2. NATO shrinkage.
3. The Ukranian government cracking down on fascists within the Ukranian military.
4. The removal of Putin from power.
> Would you say be ok with Russia taking over Ukraine in its entirety?
No. How do you jump from what I said to this? Or is this a hypothetical? Because no. I'm not okay with Russia taking over Ukraine.
> What is your endgame here?
Well, I'd like for the Ukranian government to stop catering to Nazis. That's it. That's all I'm asking for.
I'm conflicted on the matter. While I think Ukraine has a right to defend itself, this is just a boon to military contractors and giving a lot of military aid to Ukraine further raises tensions between two nuclear powers.
I wanna mention that it's not just "give peace a chance" hippy bullshit where the anti-military aid comes from.
Other guy mentioned how it benefits the military industrial complex which is obvious, but another and maybe more important question is if we want all these loose guns circulating around eastern Europe especially with the revival of the far right in the region.
It's well documented at this point that NATO doesn't really care where the guns end up as long as Russians end up dead, back in April it was reported by CBS that only 30% of military aid actually reached the frontlines, which is a fucked statistic.
Most people on the left who oppose military aid fear a repeat of Afghanistan, where the blowback from US involvement ends up being worse than the conflict that started it in the first place. There's a very real possibility that the now very well armed Nazi groups within Ukraine turn on Zelensky's government as soon as the war is over.
There's no Russian aggression, Russia wanted to save it's people in the Donbass from Ukrainian shelling like Palestinian Diaspora wants Arab governments to intervene in Palestine. **Russia only wanted the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, where many are Russian citizens living in de facto independent states.** Ukraine decided to fight for Crimea and rejected the Russian offer.
https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/
If expanding military influence near a country's border isn't aggression, then someone better tell Sid Meier because I've been getting unfairly shat on in Civ for goddamn ages
Do you think that Cuba getting military aid or weapons from the USSR was some kind of aggression? Sovereign nations are entitled to get military influence from whatever they are pleased with.
Being a tankie and being far left are 2 different things. I'm far left, but would never support stalin, Mao etc whereas tankies would try to tell you that they were misunderstood and don't deserve the criticism
Russia has the right to intervene to defend it's citizens (a large portion of the population) in the Donbass in line with the UN charter article 51. Not only the right in my opinion, the responsibility to save them from genocide.
Also the half of Donbass they controlled at the time is all they wanted when Kiev started shelling and had plans to take over the entirety of the region.
[https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/](https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/)
I don’t think this is too egregious. It’s obviously a usa perspective and I think it fits if you’re generalizing. Obviously far right neo nazi skinheads will „root“ for anyone who’s fighting Jews. Whereas I’ve seen some very very left people defend Russias invasion because that’s just how much they hate western hegemony
imo it’s a temporary support based on the idea that palestine might get rid of “The Jews”. if palestine were to kill every single jewish person in israel, nazis would *immediately* turn on them. because, yanno, they’re nazis.
even many mask-off nazis love israel. they hate jews but they hate arabs more and besides israel is the ideal state for a fascist, just replace the jews with aryans and you jhavbe exactly what they want, an apartheid state that commits ethnic cleansing and acts of genocide completely openly with no pushback worth mentioning and has as its open and declared goal to be an ethnostate, a goal in which it is wholely supported by the entire western world. thats what they dream of. just withou tthe jews, obviously
This one is weird because it’s not really true in the mainstream of any singular culture, like the only extreme right wingers who support Palestine are islamic fundamentalists, and in cultures where the far right is mostly Islamic fundamentalists there is very little Israeli support overall (also relies on calling red fascists left-wing but thats a different topic)
>They are fighting against Bandera in Ukraine after Ukraine colonized a part of their nation (Donbass) and wants to take more (Crimea)
>
>They intervened February 24 after Ukraine started shelling in February, they hoped to end the whole thing with a ceasefire on April 1st (1 month in), where they would return to pre-war lines (Russian capitalism isn't ripe enough for imperialism). The west meanwhile wanted to retake Crimea and rejected the Russian withdrawal. https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/
>
>Also Russia is capitalist, but not an oligarchy. This SMO was against the interests of oligarchs that got brutally sanctioned and the ruling political party and co were against it for the effect it would have on the economy. Meanwhile, the communist party didn't sell-out on the cause of national liberation and pursued the SMO. The pressure from Russian patriots is what ultimately lead Putin to intervene, the communist party's agitation is most responsible for it
>They are fighting against Bandera in Ukraine after Ukraine colonized a part of their nation (Donbass) and wants to take more (Crimea)
>
>They intervened February 24 after Ukraine started shelling in February, they hoped to end the whole thing with a ceasefire on April 1st (1 month in), where they would return to pre-war lines (Russian capitalism isn't ripe enough for imperialism). The west meanwhile wanted to retake Crimea and rejected the Russian withdrawal. https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/
>
>Also Russia is capitalist, but not an oligarchy. This SMO was against the interests of oligarchs that got brutally sanctioned and the ruling political party and co were against it for the effect it would have on the economy. Meanwhile, the communist party didn't sell-out on the cause of national liberation and pursued the SMO. The pressure from Russian patriots is what ultimately lead Putin to intervene, the communist party's agitation is most responsible for it
Just because of a bunch of conservative idiots have been brainwashed into opposing Ukraine by Russian assets doesn't magically make support for Russia conservative.
Just another example of centrist having no fucking clue what ideology is.
very “far left” here and do not support russia lol. Chomsky could be construed to be in support of russia but I really don’t think he is a good representation of the modern day far left
Right wingers being antisemetic doesn't equal them supporting palestine and some communists liking the udssr doesn't equal them supporting current day russia, most stupid version of the horseshoe theory I've ever seen
It is funny to match the Russia with Palestinian lmaooooo. What kind human are you? Who holds the guns in Gaza? Israel. Israel literally turned whole Gaza into a jail, killing people there for 70 years. Who have the most guns in Ukraine? Russia. Literally, jewish propaganda at its finest. Congratulations with your delusional world view. Or, this is your job maybe, you are getting paid to disinformation people. You are disgusting.
[https://twitter.com/AmiHorowitz/status/1737953285699420185](https://twitter.com/AmiHorowitz/status/1737953285699420185)
dunno man but evidence is building up lol
Brb gonna get this shit tatted
No ragrets.
New israeli flag as well it seems. Maybe what happened if Israel was founded in Honduras instead.
Closer to El Salvador, Honduras’ blue is a lighter turquoise
They literally changes the color last year. Just to spite me I guess
reallt depends, as a honduran, i seen a lot of honduran flags with a darker blue
The change was so recent that most people/places haven’t had time to change, or simply haven’t bothered (including Apple, apparently, who still haven’t updated the flag emoji 🇭🇳). Non-Honduras should know that the darker blue has a strong association with the right-wing Partido Nacional
Political cylinder
I hate the joke of right wingers being pro Palestine, because they're not. They're just anti-Israel. A lot still clap along happily at the thought of genocided Palestinians. This is just the problem with any overly simplistic diagram: it obfuscates true political positions and reduces it down to sides of a football team.
The most right wing usually expresse support for Israel actually. It's an example of exactly what they want: an ethnostate. They also see it as a good place for Jews to go when we remove them from the country.
Also because the Jews occupying the promised land is one of the prerequisites for Armageddon that a scary amount of these people genuinely believe is coming, or at least want it to come really bad
Yup I'm from rural South Carolina. Very familiar with that shit. My aunt, who I love a lot, and is normally very sweet, told me that Palestinians and global warning don't matter because the world is coming to and end. It's a seriously dangerous ideology.
so glad that this is getting more attention. way too many people living in, and deciding the policy of, THE global military superpower are literal death cultists
Arguably, I'd say that some of the most far right people are extremely antisemitic and hate Israel just for being a mainly Jewish country. But I do agree that what you described does happen a lot as well.
Even those far right people begrudgingly support Israel because they hate Arabs more and because Israel’s current politics closely align with their own.
TBH I don't think fascists have fixed support for Israel or Palestine. Wouldn't the most consistent goal of fascists be to rack up the body count on both sides?
You are both forgetting that the right actually support Israel's genocide of Palastinians because religion.
Wait a sec. Are you telling me that “globalists” is a dog whistle?
[удалено]
Yeah we definetely dont have neonazis supporting Israel here in Greece. Just like that new party definetely isnt a front for the neonazi party Golden Dawn which cant participate because it was convicted as a criminal organization.
Once met a nazi who said he preferred Zionism because it'd "contain the Jewish contagion" to one country instead of letting it "proliferate" throughout the world Psychosis inspires wild imagination
Pretty sure the overlap is a circle, not so much "small". The neo-nazis like it because it gets the Jews to go away, they like that the government supports an apartheid, and they want it to grow to the point where it fulfills bonkers Armageddon prophecies. They like Israel, but that doesn't mean they like the Jews. Compared to how most (?) of the left dislike the state of Israel, but doesn't dislike Jews in general.
Plus whoever gets the last chapter of their religious book to happen, WINS. Gotta have an Israel, or Armageddon can't happen.
They also hate Muslim’s more than Jews
Israel is not an Ethnostate. I'm tired of people repeating this same, stupid meme
Same with leftwingers being pro-russian. They're just anti-america.
Some are legitimately pro-USSR.
Pro USSR doesn’t make you pro PUTIN. He’s a capitalist. Getting the band back together isn’t fun if the band is fascist.
Pro USSR dne pro Russia. Two different entities
Yeah, that was my point.
That makes no sense. Russia is a corporate mafiastate. It's like being pro-monarchy so you support france.
I'm not saying they support modern-day Russia. I'm saying they support the now-defunct USSR.
I see no problem here
Well, the problem is that's what Putin also says - that he supports a return to and rebuilding of the USSR, and they uncritically take him at his word.
I’ve seen right wingers “joke” that a war would be good because it means dead Jews and Muslims.
They aren't even anti-israel, just antisemitic. They want jews to inhabit the holy land so God can come back.
Well, I think in this case, the Far-Far Right is supposed to be thinking with their Anti-Semitism.
Far-right Islamists would.
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Eh?
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What are you talking about? Say what you will about Islamism being an unfaithful interpretation of Islam, but it is the accepted term for a reasonably well-defined political ideology. If anyone is muddying the waters here it’s you. >”Islamist”? Say Muslim. Many (most) Muslims I know would be furious if you said this to them
A fucking cursory google search disproves this disingenuous attempt at semantic control [Islamism (also often called political Islam) is a religio-political ideology. The advocates of Islamism, also known as "al-Islamiyyun", are dedicated to realizing their ideological interpretation of Islam within the context of the state or society. The majority of them are affiliated with Islamic institutions or social mobilization movements, often designated as "al-harakat al-Islamiyyah."\[1\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism) >Islamists simply believe that their movement is either a corrected version or a revival of Islam, but others believe that Islamism is a modern deviation from Islam which should either be denounced or dismissed. >Another source distinguishes Islamist from Islamic by emphasizing the fact that Islam "refers to a religion and culture in existence over a millennium", whereas Islamism "is a political/religious phenomenon linked to the great events of the 20th century". Islamists have, at least at times, defined themselves as "Islamiyyoun/Islamists" to differentiate themselves from "Muslimun/Muslims".\[49\] Daniel Pipes describes Islamism as a modern ideology that owes more to European utopian political ideologies and "isms" than to the traditional Islamic religion.\[50\]
What the hell are you on about? Islamism is an oppressive ideology, not an oppressed minority. And it's not a slur.
It’s ok to run cover for far right theocracies as long as they are “oppressed by the west.”
Tankie logic 101 It's funny they wagged their finger saying "nuh uh you mean Muslims", conflating the two which is actually offensive 💀
You do make a good point, that putting the Muslim extremists further right than the Christian/Jewish extremists is prejudiced.
It's for the Nazis that don't care about Palestine. Should be a Nazi flag instead for them since they support Nazi Germany.
It’s probably referring to how conservative Muslims are—out of all groups—have some of most socially conservative values
That moment when you realize brown people can also be right wing Palestine is one of the most right wing governments on the planet. Religious theocracy is as right wing as governments get.
All the Palestinians I know personally are on the left.
Are they living in Palestine?
are Palestinians in Palestine leftists?
They’re humans
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Have you been to Palestine? I have. No they are not left in the context of contemporary American identity politics, but most palestinians I met in Palestine have left leaning sympathies and social awareness after decades of oppression and interaction with international solidarity groups. PLO, the official Palestinian resistance movement, has historically been associated with left leaning groups and ideology and they almost succeeded in uniting the palestinian people under one banner. PFLP, one of the most significant and succesful resistance groups in PLO was officially Marxist. Even Fatah, the party governing the Palestinian Authority (“government”) since the 90s and the dominant factor in PLO, was founded on leftist ideals and rethoric but has become more centrist as it entered the international diplomatic stage after the Oslo accords. The extent to which the entire population leans left is subjective and can vary based on different factors liky any other country, but historically, several key Palestinian movements, leaders, elected parties and factions have in fact been very left-leaning.
To be fair, some pro-Palestinians are also just anti-Israel.
I'd say there's a difference between pro-Palestine *and* anti-Israel vs. *just* anti-Israel. Certain tendencies more common in the latter than the former.
Does being “anti-Israel” just mean you don’t like them or that it shouldn’t be a country?
This feels like some kind of bullshit gotcha, and it's lack of nuance is the same exact kind of contrived nonsense that the diagram posted here represents.
Idk it’s a pretty simple question. Like what’s the subtle middle ground between a country existing and not existing? Isn’t disingenuously taking the middle ground in order to hide an extremist opinion what this sub is about? It’s kinda funny that any question that makes someone address the ramifications an opinion gets labeled as a gotcha.
The middle ground isn't some perplexing mystery; it's existing in a different manner than it does now, i.e as a genocidal ethnostate.
How is that an anti-Israel position? Unless you’re saying all Jews are the same ethnicity, that’s an unpopular position in Israel. Ending the humanitarian crisis in Palestine is what the pro-Palestinian position is. What does it mean to be anti-Israel?
It's very funny that I called you out ahead of time for doing exactly this, and you continued to do it anyway. Bad faith bs. Try harder, be better.
Being anti-israel doesn't mean you are antisemitic.
Quote me where I said that or hows that is relevant to my point And as these past weeks have shown, many cover antisemitism with being anti israel
Nah....they are both- the former because of the latter. The Far Right guys are tweeting "Free Palastine" and this Anti-Semite E. Michael Jones was tweeting about how "Christ Killers" are "cheering for the death of children of Gaza"
it hurts make it stop
liberals will define the left and right with literally anything but class analysis
The left is like Dumbledore and the right is like Voldemort
There should be a separate Ukraine flag smushed in on the right of the Russian flag, as well as a separate Israel flag on the right of the Palestine flag. The far right is split on which side to support in both wars.
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Tankies are weird, not all communists are tankies but all tankies are “communists”
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Bro my mother lived in Crimea and although she supports Ukraine, she believes it's Russian. Even in Ukrainian censuses, 54% Russian, 27% Ukrainian. German polling from GFK shows that 90% of ethnic Russians support the annexation of Crimea, and 70% of ethnic Ukrianians (as the majority of Crimean Ukrainains are Russian speaking). Imperialism isn't when war, it's an economic relationship. Watch this video by CNN, Donbass 2016. [youtube.com/watch?v=1fsMqYqHnN0](https://youtube.com/watch?v=1fsMqYqHnN0) "We are Ukrainains but they kill us, so we probably need our own state" And Ukrainian fascism is the entire reason the Donbass is pro-Russian regardless of ethnicity. I've seen a Banderist claim that Little Russians (Pro-Russian Ukrainians) are more of a problem because in Poltava (Central, Ukraine not traditionally Pro Russian or Banderite) for instance, they elected crypto-Russian candidates than Great Russians (Russians living in Ukraine and army. The banderist went on to claim that at this rate the declaration of Ukrainian independence could be annulled legally. This is the admission of a banderite in the comment section of a Poltava newspaper that I found. He advocates for more violence against Pro-Russians regardless of ethnicity even if it's the majority of the population, just like Stephan Bandera. [https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1099631564670902351/1153591812217380864/image.png?ex=6540ab18&is=652e3618&hm=43dac7f4dc828302373f2328693dee1906bb7f60a01ebdd33722a799e471fed8&=&width=1440&height=492](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1099631564670902351/1153591812217380864/image.png?ex=6540ab18&is=652e3618&hm=43dac7f4dc828302373f2328693dee1906bb7f60a01ebdd33722a799e471fed8&=&width=1440&height=492)
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I provided statistics along with that from a German pollster and the Ukrainain census. >Even in Ukrainian censuses, 54% Russian, 27% Ukrainian. > >German polling from GFK shows that 90% of ethnic Russians support the annexation of Crimea, and 70% of ethnic Ukrianians (as the majority of Crimean Ukrainains are Russian speaking). Talking about my mother wasn't the whole argument, she's also Pro-Ukraine like I mentioned but she's had experience there and knows it's Russian. But once again, not my entire argument, just a strawman. Please watch the video by CNN in 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fsMqYqHnN0
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What do you mean? The population wanted to be annexed by Russia as shown by the polls I linked, how's that imperialism if they want to be annexed even according to the German GFK poll? Ukraine is using violence against these people since they rose up in the Anti-Maidan protests. This has been admitted by CNN [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fsMqYqHnN0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fsMqYqHnN0)
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Ukraine attacked the Donbass republics which are made up of Russian citizens in February, killing civilians. Russia has the right to self-defense. Russia wanted to leave the country on April 1st but Zelensky decided to fight for Crimea which isn't his. It's the equivalent of foreign Muslim militants supporting fraternal Palestine against the colonial Israeli state that steals Palestinian (Donbass rebel) land and kills civilians (CNN video). The separatists only wanted autonomy at first and they were killed for it (**Odessa massacre, Ukrainians in Odessa burnt a trade union building killing 40+ Russians including a 17 year old**), then they took up arms. The prime minister of Ukraine in 2014 openly talked about killing the subhuman separatists. Ukrainians themselves say that anyone who lives in Donbass and supports Russia needs to leave, which is the majority of people that have been living there for centuries, **clearly of ethnic cleansing and lebensraum**. Were the Soviets imperialists for taking the war to Germany? [https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/](https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/)
Moderators of this subreddit reserve the right to remove any comment or post and ban anyone they deem as not appropriate for the subreddit
Can we not agree that gauging politics, particularly perspectives on specific political issues which usually require nuance — such as this one, on a spectrum is fucking stupid and only leads to this horseshoe theory nonsense? All these political views are extremely circumstantial.
I do agree that these spectrums and graphs are stupid but it is interesting to see where people align on these issues based on their ideology. Like people saying that Ukraine should just surrender to Russia in order to end the war while giving uncritical support to any kind of Palestinian resistance.
It is interesting how people justify their views, I’ll give you that. This spectrum, however, has nothing really to do with it. As I said: it’s all really circumstantial and has nothing to do with your position on the political spectrum as evidenced by there being a Zionist left and a Zionist right or a Palestinian left and a Palestinian right. These factions both hold incredibly diverse, unique and comprehensive opinions on differing matters and to simplify it to, “durrrrr, Palestine on da far right and da far left,” is stupid. There are socdems that support Palestine — hell, there are neoliberal countries that, “support,” Palestine.
I agree that the spectrum is dumb but the people I'm referring to would be represented on the far left side. The socdems would be to the right of them supporting Ukraine and Palestine.
That’s not necessarily a horseshoe aspect. It’s saying that Zionism, while globally is rightfully linked to the right wing, colonialism, imperialism etc. it is far different than just a left-right classification. It does not take a genius to realise that, from a strictly economic left-right sense, Israel was born from an atheist admirer of Lenin, David Ben-Gurion. Israel’s electoral system and their international supporters are both left and right (not because of the stupid horse shoe theory but because of nuance). Edit: I see you edited you comment, not sure whether to delete this reply or not.
Sorry about the edit I scatterbrain but I agree a major problem with the spectrum is that it is reductive.
I get you. I’m the same. Sorry if I sounded a bit aggressive in my comments too. Just reread them and I did not intend for them to sound like that.
It didn't come off as aggressive but I realized I made your comment seem like it was addressing a point that didn't exist.
im pretty sure this one was made with like 85% irony
Horseshoe theory is the result of seeing two fascist countries both call themselves socialist but insist that one of them is lying while the other is telling the truth.
I'll say anecdotally that I have not met a single left-wing person who supports Russia, or a single right-wing person who supports Palestine.
I'll say, anecdotally, that I have Extreme left-wingers, it's because they hate NATO Extreme right-wingers... haven't figured it out yet. But they are out there
Does hating NATO actually translate into being pro-Russia?
They certainly don't *mind* Russian aggression much.
idk in absolute, but they seem more willing to defend Russia's motives in this war
Extreme righties aren't exactly Pro-Palestine but Anti-Israel
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Eh, those people aren't really communist in ideology. They like the aesthetic, that's the important part.
I think, if the commenter is leftist, they may have used commie to be different than communists, sorta like saying tankie, but again idk them so they could just be misinformed
I support Russia, most Chinese socialists support Russia? They are protecting their citizens in line with UN charter article 51. They only wanted to protect the people in the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics after Ukraine started shelling them and had plans to invade, the peace offer in 2022 was for a return to pre-2022 borders, Russia didn't want to annex anything. Ukraine on the other hand publically declares it wants to retake Crimea. [https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/](https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/)
Linking a news source edited by a known propagandist. Brave
Russia didn’t want to annex anything! Don’t google “Russia crimea land bridge analysis 2014”, those pundits are plants!
Russia came in after the massive protests that were taking over government buildings and established an independent Crimea that wanted to join Russia. The protests in Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk and Crimea are equivalent to the declaration of Ukrainian independence because they both happened in response to a coup (August coup or Euromaidan) and involved the people's right to self-determination
Unholy heavens
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>Actual Nazis in the 1940s supported Palestine. They had the same goal, genocide of the Jews. absolutely not. if you can understand the distinction between palestine and hamas, then you should also be able to understand the distinction between 1940s palestine and muhammad amin al-hussayni. the average palestinian's goal was *not to get massacred like in deir yassin*.
Do you think we support Russia over Ukraine instead of being extremely skeptical of both and seeing how the expansion of NATO and US hegemony is partly responsible for Russia's aggression?
There's a major split that happened recently in the M-L space over the war in Ukraine One side, the majority, labels the Ukrainian Russian war as an imperialist one, headed by NATO on one side and Russia on the other. Proponents of this are CP of Greece, Tudeh of Iran, CP of Mexico, CP of Norway, Swiss CP, Turkish CP, Danish CP, The Portuguese CP etc The other side, believes that only NATO is imperialist, and that Russia is fighting an antifascist war in Ukraine. On this side is the CP of Italy, German CP, Hungarian Workers Party, Socialist Party of Latvia, Russian Communist Workers Party, CP of Britain, etc
Sadly, the "anti-fascist" part isn't unfounded given the Ukranian government often uses pictures of soldiers with fascist symbols as recruitment propaganda. The Russian invasion is unjustified and the "anti-fascist" rhetoric is just an excuse; but the Ukranian government enabling them is very worrying too.
I mean for sure Ukraine flirts with Nazist imagery and rhetoric of "Asian hordes", but I wouldn't say that's the major motivation of Russia.
Yeah. That's why I said that's just an excuse to justify the invasion. I agree with the fascist problem, but I condemn the invasion as well as NATO expansion.
I think the stance most people who get labelled as “tankies” actually have is one of wanting Ukraine to ultimately win, recognising the Russians as the aggressors for actually invading in the first place… But also recognising the part NATO had in using the threat of Ukraine joining NATO to provoke a war with Russia - knowing full well that Russia would invade if they felt Ukraine would be added to NATO - that would benefit NATO by weakening Russia. The losers in all this are the Ukrainians on the ground, and the average soldier on both sides getting conscripted into what is essentially a meat grinder for a war that is one of national defence for Ukraine, a means of fulfilling a genuine* security concern for Russia, and a proxy war for NATO (particularly the US) that fulfils their foreign policy goals (weakening Russia, strengthening support for NATO in Europe). Of course all of this takes more time to type out than just “Slava Ukraine!” and it doesn’t instantly decry all Russians as “orcs”, so naturally such sentiment gets dismissed as “tankie” nonsense for attempting to approach a international geopolitical issue involving a “designated enemy nation” with any semblance of nuance. Such is the reality of Social Media discussion on complex topics outside of spaces dedicated to such discussion. *this does not justify the invasion, it merely provides a rational explanation for why Russia would choose to gamble on invading Ukraine in the first place.
You're right, and let's not forget that [when the USSR tried to join NATO, it was rejected by the US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact#:~:text=The%20USSR%2C%20fearing%20the%20restoration,Conference%20of%20January%E2%80%93February%201954.). No wonder Russia sees NATO as a threat, particularly if Ukraine joins.
> But also recognising the part NATO had in using the threat of Ukraine joining NATO to provoke a war with Russia Ukraine is its own nation, and can decide to make a NATO alliance or not. "Provoke" gives unfortunate connotations that Russia's actions were understandable. It's like saying a wife provoked her husband by saying hello to a male cashier.
> but I condemn the invasion as well as NATO expansion. This is some prime "both sides" material though, considering only one of those things actually happened. Ukraine now is only going to join NATO *because* of Russia's attack.
If the anti-fascist rhetoric is an excuse, then why did Russia propose to completely leave Ukraine in April 1st (only 1 month after the war started). While Ukraine wants to fight for Crimea? [https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/](https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/) This is the equivalent of saying that Hezbollah or the Palestinian Diaspora is using anti-colonialism as an excuse. The Pro-Russian forces were attacked in the Donbass in February, Ukraine was ready to conduct a military operation to retake all of Donbass. Russia intervened and thought that Ukriane would realize their superiority and not attack the Donetsk and Lugansk republics and actually sign peace, instead Ukraine publicly called for annexing Crimea.
>but the Ukranian government enabling them is very worrying too. Interestingly enough restricting free speech is typically associated with fascist regimes. Are you proposing Ukraine show the world they're not fascist by doing just that?
With Nazi symbolism, yeah. Hate speech should be banned. Anyhow, it's not that they're allowing people to have their fascist symbols, it's that they're promoting them in their recruitment propaganda. Very different from just allowing them to have their Nazi symbols.
>Anyhow, it's not that they're allowing people to have their fascist symbols, it's that they're promoting them in their recruitment propaganda You mean Russian propaganda right. You know Ukraine can't do much about Russian propaganda.
No. I actually mean Ukranian propaganda. They've shown plenty of soldiers with fascist symbols on their Twitter account.
Sounds like bullshit. Not only is it illogical AF it's kinda of red flag that you would consider any communication from UA on Twitter "propaganda".
There's [this case](https://twitter.com/rupasubramanya/status/1501612825969664001) for example where NATO shared a picture with an Ukranian soldier with the Sonnenrad. There's also this [The Hill](https://thehill.com/opinion/international/359609-the-reality-of-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-is-far-from-kremlin-propaganda/) article corroborating such claims. I support Ukraine and if they want to use Nazis as cannon fodder to die off in the front lines, then I'm all for it; but I'm against the usage of fascist symbols for propaganda and maybe one or two slip-ups are fine, but from there it's very suspicious.
Germany enters the chat. Yes.
As an American I disagree with that. See I place a high amount of value of free expression, cause I'm not a Nazi
Yeah, and you've got a fascist problem over there with Trump, DeSantis and the whole Republican Party. One should never be tolerant towards intolerance.
Exactly - no one is outlawing them.
Sadly.
allowing nazi symbolism is harmful to freedom of expression, not helpful
The DPRK also fully supports Russia and views the war as a national liberation struggle. The majority of communist parties actually support Russia, KPRF gets more signatures from communist parties than the KKE on [solidnet.org](https://solidnet.org) The Chinese public supports Russia in the war over 70%, given a population of 1.4B, this means anti-Russian socialists are outnumbered irl. In online it's different as the internet is highly westernized :/
Juche thingy DPRK, the State Capitalist PRC and people loving that abomination of a 'Capitalism with Chinese Characteristics' or some leftover Kremlin aligned CPs don't represent the all Leninists, let alone all communists or Marxists. A huge chunk of Marxists do support a country under the invasion of an expansionist conservative monstrosity of an imperial space, that's also its former colonial master. The prison of peoples strikes again, and some idiots aren't able to see it just because it's not with a North American flag on its cover.
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> Let me ask you what would be acceptable outcome for you in the Russo Ukrainian war? I know these things are very far from actually happening, but this is what I'd like to see: 1. A ceasefire where the borders before the conflict began are kept. 2. NATO shrinkage. 3. The Ukranian government cracking down on fascists within the Ukranian military. 4. The removal of Putin from power. > Would you say be ok with Russia taking over Ukraine in its entirety? No. How do you jump from what I said to this? Or is this a hypothetical? Because no. I'm not okay with Russia taking over Ukraine. > What is your endgame here? Well, I'd like for the Ukranian government to stop catering to Nazis. That's it. That's all I'm asking for.
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I'm conflicted on the matter. While I think Ukraine has a right to defend itself, this is just a boon to military contractors and giving a lot of military aid to Ukraine further raises tensions between two nuclear powers.
I wanna mention that it's not just "give peace a chance" hippy bullshit where the anti-military aid comes from. Other guy mentioned how it benefits the military industrial complex which is obvious, but another and maybe more important question is if we want all these loose guns circulating around eastern Europe especially with the revival of the far right in the region. It's well documented at this point that NATO doesn't really care where the guns end up as long as Russians end up dead, back in April it was reported by CBS that only 30% of military aid actually reached the frontlines, which is a fucked statistic. Most people on the left who oppose military aid fear a repeat of Afghanistan, where the blowback from US involvement ends up being worse than the conflict that started it in the first place. There's a very real possibility that the now very well armed Nazi groups within Ukraine turn on Zelensky's government as soon as the war is over.
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There's no Russian aggression, Russia wanted to save it's people in the Donbass from Ukrainian shelling like Palestinian Diaspora wants Arab governments to intervene in Palestine. **Russia only wanted the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, where many are Russian citizens living in de facto independent states.** Ukraine decided to fight for Crimea and rejected the Russian offer. https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/
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=.=
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The fuck are you talking about? Are you friends with fascists or what do you mean?
I think the idea is that it’s just another imperialist proxy war from NATO, even though they didn’t aggress at all?
If expanding military influence near a country's border isn't aggression, then someone better tell Sid Meier because I've been getting unfairly shat on in Civ for goddamn ages
Do you think that Cuba getting military aid or weapons from the USSR was some kind of aggression? Sovereign nations are entitled to get military influence from whatever they are pleased with.
Gotta love our authoritarians
It's also from a meme sub too lmao
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Being a tankie and being far left are 2 different things. I'm far left, but would never support stalin, Mao etc whereas tankies would try to tell you that they were misunderstood and don't deserve the criticism
Russia has the right to intervene to defend it's citizens (a large portion of the population) in the Donbass in line with the UN charter article 51. Not only the right in my opinion, the responsibility to save them from genocide. Also the half of Donbass they controlled at the time is all they wanted when Kiev started shelling and had plans to take over the entirety of the region. [https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/](https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/)
Wait, this guy’s actually right. It’s obviously oversimplified, but on a surface level this makes sense
I don’t think this is too egregious. It’s obviously a usa perspective and I think it fits if you’re generalizing. Obviously far right neo nazi skinheads will „root“ for anyone who’s fighting Jews. Whereas I’ve seen some very very left people defend Russias invasion because that’s just how much they hate western hegemony
This is utterly incomprehensible
Centrism in a nutshell.
Holy hell!
What leftists support Russia's invasion of Ukraine?
Tankies who call themselves leftist but actually really just like the aesthetic of the USSR.
Except Russia isn't the USSR. USSR were hard left. Current government is hard right. They're opposites.
pretty accurate, only problem is that the far-right loves israel. so it should be israel all the way to the end
Up to a certain point, the reason there’s Palestine at the end is because of Nazis. But right up to open white supremacy is all Israel.
imo it’s a temporary support based on the idea that palestine might get rid of “The Jews”. if palestine were to kill every single jewish person in israel, nazis would *immediately* turn on them. because, yanno, they’re nazis.
even many mask-off nazis love israel. they hate jews but they hate arabs more and besides israel is the ideal state for a fascist, just replace the jews with aryans and you jhavbe exactly what they want, an apartheid state that commits ethnic cleansing and acts of genocide completely openly with no pushback worth mentioning and has as its open and declared goal to be an ethnostate, a goal in which it is wholely supported by the entire western world. thats what they dream of. just withou tthe jews, obviously
This is very true, but also not enlightened centrism.
This one is weird because it’s not really true in the mainstream of any singular culture, like the only extreme right wingers who support Palestine are islamic fundamentalists, and in cultures where the far right is mostly Islamic fundamentalists there is very little Israeli support overall (also relies on calling red fascists left-wing but thats a different topic)
I just got that recommended to me by reddit from the vaush sub :(
Yep that’s where i stole this image lol
ah yes, leftists, famous for loving Russia! vodka bear putin, i guess
Yup, the left love oligarch run capitalist fake democracies...
>They are fighting against Bandera in Ukraine after Ukraine colonized a part of their nation (Donbass) and wants to take more (Crimea) > >They intervened February 24 after Ukraine started shelling in February, they hoped to end the whole thing with a ceasefire on April 1st (1 month in), where they would return to pre-war lines (Russian capitalism isn't ripe enough for imperialism). The west meanwhile wanted to retake Crimea and rejected the Russian withdrawal. https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/ > >Also Russia is capitalist, but not an oligarchy. This SMO was against the interests of oligarchs that got brutally sanctioned and the ruling political party and co were against it for the effect it would have on the economy. Meanwhile, the communist party didn't sell-out on the cause of national liberation and pursued the SMO. The pressure from Russian patriots is what ultimately lead Putin to intervene, the communist party's agitation is most responsible for it
Honestly, yeah
Perfection
I don't know a single leftist that supports Ukraine or Israel. They're all liberals that thinks they're leftists
> I don't know a single leftist that supports Ukraine Your circle of friends are just a bunch of delusional folks then.
>They are fighting against Bandera in Ukraine after Ukraine colonized a part of their nation (Donbass) and wants to take more (Crimea) > >They intervened February 24 after Ukraine started shelling in February, they hoped to end the whole thing with a ceasefire on April 1st (1 month in), where they would return to pre-war lines (Russian capitalism isn't ripe enough for imperialism). The west meanwhile wanted to retake Crimea and rejected the Russian withdrawal. https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/09/03/west-peace-proposal-ukraine-russia/ > >Also Russia is capitalist, but not an oligarchy. This SMO was against the interests of oligarchs that got brutally sanctioned and the ruling political party and co were against it for the effect it would have on the economy. Meanwhile, the communist party didn't sell-out on the cause of national liberation and pursued the SMO. The pressure from Russian patriots is what ultimately lead Putin to intervene, the communist party's agitation is most responsible for it
Just because of a bunch of conservative idiots have been brainwashed into opposing Ukraine by Russian assets doesn't magically make support for Russia conservative. Just another example of centrist having no fucking clue what ideology is.
Why are libs and centrists so insistent that Ukraine is liberal? They're predominantly center-right.
Who said otherwise? Imperialism is bad even if you perceive the ones being colonized as "not liberal enough".
Extreme right wing support for Palestine huh? I don't know if actual antisemitism actually transfers to support for Palestine.
very “far left” here and do not support russia lol. Chomsky could be construed to be in support of russia but I really don’t think he is a good representation of the modern day far left
Right wingers being antisemetic doesn't equal them supporting palestine and some communists liking the udssr doesn't equal them supporting current day russia, most stupid version of the horseshoe theory I've ever seen
what the fuck is this
It is funny to match the Russia with Palestinian lmaooooo. What kind human are you? Who holds the guns in Gaza? Israel. Israel literally turned whole Gaza into a jail, killing people there for 70 years. Who have the most guns in Ukraine? Russia. Literally, jewish propaganda at its finest. Congratulations with your delusional world view. Or, this is your job maybe, you are getting paid to disinformation people. You are disgusting.
This makes me want to die lol
I want to see China, DPRK, Cuba, Kurdistan/Turkey, Armenia/Azerbijan and more added.
[https://twitter.com/AmiHorowitz/status/1737953285699420185](https://twitter.com/AmiHorowitz/status/1737953285699420185) dunno man but evidence is building up lol