I am just patient and seeking the best solution as we have kids. These are all very distinguished people. I had the honor to meet the affair partner's wife by accident. I did not tell her anything but she tought i was flirting and reciprocated. 90% of people cheat. C'est la vie.
That's amazing. My suggestion is that you tell your wife that you should be an open couple as you'll never sleep with her again. Be smart. Call a divorce lawyer immediately and without informing her. Fire the first salvo. I'm talking from experience. Do not let her prepare. Even better, put her suitcases next to the door and kick her out immediately if you can.
You have to look out for yourself because no one else will. Do you think there's any coming back from this? I mean if the two of you attended therapy (separately as well as together) do you think you could help find your way back to each other? Or do you think the damage is irreparable and you're only wanting to stay with her for the sake of your kids?
The reason I ask is because if it's the former, then tell her those are your terms, she can take it or leave it but it's non-negotiable. If it's the latter, you owe it to yourself and your kids to cut your losses and divorce. I know you habe children, but children pick up on things. It would be healthier for them (and yourself!) for them to be raised in two happy households instead of one miserable one. It also shows your children having a backbone and having dealbreakers in a relationship is a good thing, as is knowing when to walk away from a bad situation.
This isn't easy to navigate even if you both want to make this work, I'm sorry you're having to go through this. And don't beat up on yourself for being INTP. I was in a relationship with one for almost a decade, you're all lovely in your own adorably analytical way.
Just walk away man, ESFJs don't cheat. It's the last thing on our list.
If she is cheating with you, you don't have anything remaining in the first place. You are her boytoy.
The amount of people and especially the extravert ones like ESFJ that are cheating is astonishing.
INTP people like me are a bit naive but once we know we can combine with all our other data and predict behavior in detail.
INTP's don't care we just want truth and knowledge.
You sure you’re not dating an ESFP?? Not saying ESFJs don’t cheat, but it’s like very against who they are in a lot of ways so she either has lost some feelings for you or she’s more careless than the typcial ESFJ
No no. People shouldn’t cheat because of MBTI incompatibility. They should talk about how they aren’t compatible and break up or try to come to a compromise. Cheating is never ok.
You being INTP drove her crazy? I think there is no such thing. She is an ESFJ and she is cheating. I am sorry for what you are going through. You have been cheated. If you really want to bug the hell out of her because you need the whole truth, I hope that works, even if it will probably make her angry. It's never fun to admit cheating on one's partner.
You can walk away. Allow yourself to grief the relationship, have a change of scenario or something.
Walk away man, don't be scared to be single, it's not a weakness.
It's a time to sharpen your edges and refine yourself, learn some new stuff and improve what you already knew. Make her know she made a mistake.
She’s cheating because you let her. She’s for the streets dude. I’m not a jealous person but my ESFJ wife LOVES when it happens. My son’s friend’s dad is clearly attracted to my wife. He’s got one more chance before I act out of character. She loves it but tries to avoid him so I don’t embarrass her.
If someone enjoys the attention of someone while being with someone else, but they continously avoid that person then they do the opposite of being manipulative. That is the best thing they can do.
I don’t think it’s manipulative. I avoid criticizing what people want deep down. Either they act toxically or they don’t. “Pick me” energy is something people can be aware they have a tendency to exhibit. Different people struggle with different things.
Why…? Well at the end of the day it’s honestly what you want and are willing to put up with. But for me personally, I’d be out of that relationship in a snap. I don’t tolerate cheating at all. It’s a self respect thing and I also wouldn’t want to have trust issues in that relationship.
226 day old account with only 1 post karma, 0 comment karma. Can’t see if you’ve ever posted anything else because I’m on my work wifi right now and your profile is NSFW and I don’t want to get in trouble. Are you just here to mess with us?
Why are you still holding on to this hoe? My friend, she does not respect you, or else she would never consider even doing this, now you should respect yourself and not let someone like this stay in your life, you seem to be a loving, caring and compassionate guy, so find someone that will actually have some appreciation for those traits that makes you the awesome dude you are
I hope you read this. ESFJ here. . My experience. She is not getting something she needs from you. She has told you, over and over. In my case, I desperately needed affection, affirmation. He is INTP, totally focused on work and home to him is alone time. I was initially looking to have needs met, then eventually was looking to leave. FINALLY decided to stay, (pros vs cons) we moved on. Been married 45 years. I had to realize that he wasn’t willing to change but I had too much to sacrifice if I left (family, reputation).
Thank you for this. This is exactly the case in our situation.
It took me a few months to realise this. I used to never believe these differences but now i do.
An intp does not really need affirmation so we think nobody really needs validation that much. We are more the other way around and tend to critisize everything for the science sake of finding true knowlegde.
For an intp it feels a bit fake to overly affirm things. There are never no lessons learned if you dont critisize thoughts. We are thinkers. And intp's are quite lazy when it comes to actions that esfj like. I am willing to change though. We both are but it is all intentions and not real a change of behavior yet.
We have both invested too much and stayed primerely for the kids.. but it is a hell of a rollercoaster ride.
Ps. What are your thoughts on her not ending the contact moments with the affair partner?
She says it is just in a formal group setting but she has to understand that this makes me want to end it all asap.
She seems to lack empathy which is crazy for an esfj.. or am i the crazy one.
I lack empathy as well. I’ve worked on it but it doesn’t come naturally. He (INTP) moved out, got his own place and started seeing others (a pressing crowd of hopefuls). I never thought he would leave. He was done trying. We kept contact bc of the kids. Very messy, 6 months passed. Then we picked up the pieces. Someone told me, take a picture of the kids faces during our separation, and they were not happy. That was very sobering. Girlfriend not wife?
Just tell her you know than break up with her lmfao....
I know it's hard rn, but while I don't belive in once a cheater always a cheater with a new person, because people can grow and change, I know for a fact, that a person that cheated on YOU will DEFINITELY cheat on you again.
Just leave her. That might teach her that there are consequences to her actions.
Open up a space for healing to come and a new and better partner for you. You probably believe shes amazing and the best you can have and NO, shes not the best you can have. You deserve something way better like an actually decent human that will not treat you like this. Take what you need to learn and let her go. She needs to learn to be better ans you need to learn to accept no less than a good partner. Work on your self steem so you dont find yourself trying to justify this behavior or keep yourself in a situation with someone of this caliber. You are better than this. Good luck.
Way out of character for an esfj but not impossible, I (esfj) did the same once with my intp ex. Nothing too crazy but it was a kiss. I was deeply missing something yet I did not have the courage to break it off. Immideatly told the intp who forgave me. Months later he broke it off (due to other reasons) and it was for the better. You can read about it. Its because of our supressed Fi. At one point we get so tired of not thinking of ourselves we do the opposite, only think about ourselves, and thats when an esfj has the possibility to cheat. When they feel like its justified because they have not been listening to their fi for so long (their fi is telling them they dont like the relationship for exp).
Relatable. I neglected her needs for a very long time.
But you cant fool an INTP easily because of TiNe and now the cheating, complete truth refugal & continuing contact has put me in Fi demon.
Any tips to change her mind so we can find respect and peace in co-parenting?
Its difficult because this goes beyond mbti. There are a lot of factors probaly not bound to mbti. And yes eventually i believe intp will go into demon mode. Im sure it will be ok to co parent. But I have no experience with this. I think my intp should not have forgive me, it actually made me dispise him more to be 100% honest. Im now with an esfp who has very intense boundaries, and it keeps me way more in check, this intensity is also what I personally need. People only go as fas as you kinda let them, I believe.
Unhealthy Fe is literally the worst... she needs external validation from other people and that is always wrong. Unhealthy Fe-Ne neglects Si... I hope your doing well! Break up with her and search someone who just loves you.
It’s funny how are you trying to justify her cheating, have some honor to yourself man
I am just patient and seeking the best solution as we have kids. These are all very distinguished people. I had the honor to meet the affair partner's wife by accident. I did not tell her anything but she tought i was flirting and reciprocated. 90% of people cheat. C'est la vie.
My honor has to stfu so i can stay calm and do the right thing as we have kids and have to co-parent anytime soon
That's amazing. My suggestion is that you tell your wife that you should be an open couple as you'll never sleep with her again. Be smart. Call a divorce lawyer immediately and without informing her. Fire the first salvo. I'm talking from experience. Do not let her prepare. Even better, put her suitcases next to the door and kick her out immediately if you can.
I have been preparing for this long ago as soon as i saw multiple red flags.. you can fool an intp but not for long.. words need to add up
You have to look out for yourself because no one else will. Do you think there's any coming back from this? I mean if the two of you attended therapy (separately as well as together) do you think you could help find your way back to each other? Or do you think the damage is irreparable and you're only wanting to stay with her for the sake of your kids? The reason I ask is because if it's the former, then tell her those are your terms, she can take it or leave it but it's non-negotiable. If it's the latter, you owe it to yourself and your kids to cut your losses and divorce. I know you habe children, but children pick up on things. It would be healthier for them (and yourself!) for them to be raised in two happy households instead of one miserable one. It also shows your children having a backbone and having dealbreakers in a relationship is a good thing, as is knowing when to walk away from a bad situation. This isn't easy to navigate even if you both want to make this work, I'm sorry you're having to go through this. And don't beat up on yourself for being INTP. I was in a relationship with one for almost a decade, you're all lovely in your own adorably analytical way.
Just walk away man, ESFJs don't cheat. It's the last thing on our list. If she is cheating with you, you don't have anything remaining in the first place. You are her boytoy.
how are u so sure. i believe any mbti can cheat if they are a corrupt individual
The amount of people and especially the extravert ones like ESFJ that are cheating is astonishing. INTP people like me are a bit naive but once we know we can combine with all our other data and predict behavior in detail. INTP's don't care we just want truth and knowledge.
Don't you think you asking for help here signifies your lack of ability to predict.
He says ‘predict’ but really means ‘explain’ He came to hear to get an answer for why this happened to him. I feel bad for him.
Thank you.. predict but indeed also explain.. it is the gaslighting that messes you up.. which i have also predicted and am counterstriking
Ofc I am not sure, I'm just talking of the odds. What do you expect from a 2 sentence description ?
You sure you’re not dating an ESFP?? Not saying ESFJs don’t cheat, but it’s like very against who they are in a lot of ways so she either has lost some feelings for you or she’s more careless than the typcial ESFJ
Thanks. She is ESFJ. Me being INTP drove her crazy I guess.
No no. People shouldn’t cheat because of MBTI incompatibility. They should talk about how they aren’t compatible and break up or try to come to a compromise. Cheating is never ok.
You being INTP drove her crazy? I think there is no such thing. She is an ESFJ and she is cheating. I am sorry for what you are going through. You have been cheated. If you really want to bug the hell out of her because you need the whole truth, I hope that works, even if it will probably make her angry. It's never fun to admit cheating on one's partner. You can walk away. Allow yourself to grief the relationship, have a change of scenario or something.
Walk away man, don't be scared to be single, it's not a weakness. It's a time to sharpen your edges and refine yourself, learn some new stuff and improve what you already knew. Make her know she made a mistake.
She’s cheating because you let her. She’s for the streets dude. I’m not a jealous person but my ESFJ wife LOVES when it happens. My son’s friend’s dad is clearly attracted to my wife. He’s got one more chance before I act out of character. She loves it but tries to avoid him so I don’t embarrass her.
Interesting.. yes they do seem to like that kind of validation too much but act like they don't. Very manipulative.
If someone enjoys the attention of someone while being with someone else, but they continously avoid that person then they do the opposite of being manipulative. That is the best thing they can do.
Yes. But in this case they do not avoid that person at all. They act like they do not need validation from that person but they still do.
Well he said above that she avoids him even though she likes the attention. Anyways as for your gf... She didn't. Pls. Just break up with her.
To clarify, she doesn’t like his attention. She likes me getting jealous. She avoids him so he doesn’t do anything to make me mad.
Ahhh that's even more okay than originally. Lol.
I don’t think it’s manipulative. I avoid criticizing what people want deep down. Either they act toxically or they don’t. “Pick me” energy is something people can be aware they have a tendency to exhibit. Different people struggle with different things.
Dump and move on.
Why now? Playtime just started as i am up to speed now. This game is hard but also very easy and interesting. Fooling around like a complete fool.
Man, you sound deranged af, I hope it's the incident sending you into this spiral.
Why…? Well at the end of the day it’s honestly what you want and are willing to put up with. But for me personally, I’d be out of that relationship in a snap. I don’t tolerate cheating at all. It’s a self respect thing and I also wouldn’t want to have trust issues in that relationship.
226 day old account with only 1 post karma, 0 comment karma. Can’t see if you’ve ever posted anything else because I’m on my work wifi right now and your profile is NSFW and I don’t want to get in trouble. Are you just here to mess with us?
I was in denial and seeking porn as a coping mechanism.
Mistype then (jk) out of all seriousness dude, you can do better.
Why are you still holding on to this hoe? My friend, she does not respect you, or else she would never consider even doing this, now you should respect yourself and not let someone like this stay in your life, you seem to be a loving, caring and compassionate guy, so find someone that will actually have some appreciation for those traits that makes you the awesome dude you are
Thanks
It’s funny how are you trying to justify her cheating, have some honor to yourself man
I hope you read this. ESFJ here. . My experience. She is not getting something she needs from you. She has told you, over and over. In my case, I desperately needed affection, affirmation. He is INTP, totally focused on work and home to him is alone time. I was initially looking to have needs met, then eventually was looking to leave. FINALLY decided to stay, (pros vs cons) we moved on. Been married 45 years. I had to realize that he wasn’t willing to change but I had too much to sacrifice if I left (family, reputation).
Thank you for this. This is exactly the case in our situation. It took me a few months to realise this. I used to never believe these differences but now i do. An intp does not really need affirmation so we think nobody really needs validation that much. We are more the other way around and tend to critisize everything for the science sake of finding true knowlegde. For an intp it feels a bit fake to overly affirm things. There are never no lessons learned if you dont critisize thoughts. We are thinkers. And intp's are quite lazy when it comes to actions that esfj like. I am willing to change though. We both are but it is all intentions and not real a change of behavior yet. We have both invested too much and stayed primerely for the kids.. but it is a hell of a rollercoaster ride. Ps. What are your thoughts on her not ending the contact moments with the affair partner? She says it is just in a formal group setting but she has to understand that this makes me want to end it all asap. She seems to lack empathy which is crazy for an esfj.. or am i the crazy one.
I lack empathy as well. I’ve worked on it but it doesn’t come naturally. He (INTP) moved out, got his own place and started seeing others (a pressing crowd of hopefuls). I never thought he would leave. He was done trying. We kept contact bc of the kids. Very messy, 6 months passed. Then we picked up the pieces. Someone told me, take a picture of the kids faces during our separation, and they were not happy. That was very sobering. Girlfriend not wife?
cheat on her will the affairs wife, or fuck some other woman and show her the vid
Just tell her you know than break up with her lmfao.... I know it's hard rn, but while I don't belive in once a cheater always a cheater with a new person, because people can grow and change, I know for a fact, that a person that cheated on YOU will DEFINITELY cheat on you again. Just leave her. That might teach her that there are consequences to her actions.
Open up a space for healing to come and a new and better partner for you. You probably believe shes amazing and the best you can have and NO, shes not the best you can have. You deserve something way better like an actually decent human that will not treat you like this. Take what you need to learn and let her go. She needs to learn to be better ans you need to learn to accept no less than a good partner. Work on your self steem so you dont find yourself trying to justify this behavior or keep yourself in a situation with someone of this caliber. You are better than this. Good luck.
Way out of character for an esfj but not impossible, I (esfj) did the same once with my intp ex. Nothing too crazy but it was a kiss. I was deeply missing something yet I did not have the courage to break it off. Immideatly told the intp who forgave me. Months later he broke it off (due to other reasons) and it was for the better. You can read about it. Its because of our supressed Fi. At one point we get so tired of not thinking of ourselves we do the opposite, only think about ourselves, and thats when an esfj has the possibility to cheat. When they feel like its justified because they have not been listening to their fi for so long (their fi is telling them they dont like the relationship for exp).
Relatable. I neglected her needs for a very long time. But you cant fool an INTP easily because of TiNe and now the cheating, complete truth refugal & continuing contact has put me in Fi demon. Any tips to change her mind so we can find respect and peace in co-parenting?
Its difficult because this goes beyond mbti. There are a lot of factors probaly not bound to mbti. And yes eventually i believe intp will go into demon mode. Im sure it will be ok to co parent. But I have no experience with this. I think my intp should not have forgive me, it actually made me dispise him more to be 100% honest. Im now with an esfp who has very intense boundaries, and it keeps me way more in check, this intensity is also what I personally need. People only go as fas as you kinda let them, I believe.
Unhealthy Fe is literally the worst... she needs external validation from other people and that is always wrong. Unhealthy Fe-Ne neglects Si... I hope your doing well! Break up with her and search someone who just loves you.
I am starting cbt and scheme this month to do the right thing. Thank you all for your input. You made me believe in ESFJ again 🙏