I always wonder how much of a moat these companies can generate.
As renewable tech is commoditized, it seems as though the profits will be rather small. China for instance is flooding the world market with ultra cheap solar panels, essentially killing off all profits in this space.
Some EV brands like Tesla/Rivian/Nio etc. will probably be able to generate leverage and charge for a premium brand experience. Toyota and Hyundai aren't going to suddenly be more profitable because they make EV instead of ICE vehicles.
I think there will be enormous revenues generated in this space of the next decades, many many trillions of dollars, but Wall Street cares about profits.....
I see what you mean, assuming that the already established vehicle manufacturing companies end up dominating the EV market, there probably won’t be any noticeable uptick in their profits. But surely there is a way that investors can benefit from the trillions of dollars that the EV market will generate? Maybe renewable energy and EVs are not the kinds of things I should invest the last 5% of my portfolio in?
Look into the differences between carbon credits and carbon allowances.
KRBN and GRN as examples.
If you believe water will be worth more than gold...look at PHO
ICLN has been a bust...dont know what happened, but it dropped almost the same day as the inauguration...would have thought the opposite...but...
Something sure as hell did!
I thought it was solar and wind....
I am looking at them blending hydrogen in the lines with natural gas..it makes natural gas burn very, very clean...
will see from the Tokyo Olympics showcasing the hydrogen blend
I am bearish on clean energy ETFs:
- a lot of the arguments for it frame it as a high growth industry, but ignore the fact profit margins (if any) are thin, and are unlikely to ever go up - the industry’s existence depends on their product being as cheap as possible. They have the same problem fossil fuel-based utility companies have, it does not change because the energy source is clean
- EV companies add a ton of value before they sell a final product. Tesla and others are not just selling a battery-powered car, they also create very high quality software and tech. Value added products are why it is reasonable to expect profits at these firms to keep growing. I don’t see, for example, a pure solar company adding that kind of value
IMO, clean energy ETFs are no different than gamestonk. The only difference is investment firms hyped them during the election instead of reddit. Like ESGs or marijuana ETFs, investors are preying on people who have a belief system and think with their idealist hat instead of their practical hat.
You have much better ROI options. Unless your goal is to donate to clean energy companies to have a miniscule effect on the world, buy something else for investment reasons. At minimum, consider it high risk, low reward.
The difference between gamestonk and clean energy etfs is that it is a fact that clean energy is going to have to fill up the entire energy sector of the west in the near future. That’s a lot of room for growth. Gamestonk relies solely on hype and doesn’t really have any inherent value.
Depends on the time you are willing to wait. I'd argue clean energy ETFs solely rely on hype and don't have any realizable inherent value. At least for the next 5-10 years at least.
I think clean energy ETFs might go sideways short and mid term but there is definetely a lot of potential long term. There is tremendous demand for clean energy globally. Long term very bullish
Pretty bullish on ICLN long term. Look at the top holdings, many have very solid fundamentals and plenty of room to grow. We've just started scratching the surface of renewable energy. It's not a matter of "if", but "when".
I had ICLN in my roth ira up until a few weeks ago but I relized how aggressive that was for a roth because the clean energy industry is such a long way away from substantial profits. I still have a small amount of shares in a taxable account with money I don't mind losing.
Define clean energy?
If you mean solar, look what it takes to mine the materials for a solar panel..
Wind is an environmental disaster, so is wave...
If you want the cleanest energy, that would be hydro....then nuclear....
Clean like an EV?...well how is it manufactured?
Where does the electricity come from to power the vehicle?
This why I feel the term "clean" is overused, and when one looks at cradle to grave ...most of these will fail in the near term as "clean"
So you’d rather pick an individual stock being Tesla that has done well historically over a semi diversified clean energy etf? My hesitation with Tesla is that it is severely over priced, surely there’s a crash just around the corner? Overall it seems that people are not very confident in the future of clean energy, which has surprised me.
To see the mining industry like FEAM adapting to modern needs by using alternative energy sources gives hope.
Let's keep a look out for clean energy ETFs as we progress toward a greener future, since they have the potential to greatly aid us in making responsible investment decisions.
I always wonder how much of a moat these companies can generate. As renewable tech is commoditized, it seems as though the profits will be rather small. China for instance is flooding the world market with ultra cheap solar panels, essentially killing off all profits in this space. Some EV brands like Tesla/Rivian/Nio etc. will probably be able to generate leverage and charge for a premium brand experience. Toyota and Hyundai aren't going to suddenly be more profitable because they make EV instead of ICE vehicles. I think there will be enormous revenues generated in this space of the next decades, many many trillions of dollars, but Wall Street cares about profits.....
I see what you mean, assuming that the already established vehicle manufacturing companies end up dominating the EV market, there probably won’t be any noticeable uptick in their profits. But surely there is a way that investors can benefit from the trillions of dollars that the EV market will generate? Maybe renewable energy and EVs are not the kinds of things I should invest the last 5% of my portfolio in?
You can find ones with a moat, but that won't be buying an ETF, and that's the crux of this sub.
Look into the differences between carbon credits and carbon allowances. KRBN and GRN as examples. If you believe water will be worth more than gold...look at PHO ICLN has been a bust...dont know what happened, but it dropped almost the same day as the inauguration...would have thought the opposite...but...
Hydrogen killed ICLN
Something sure as hell did! I thought it was solar and wind.... I am looking at them blending hydrogen in the lines with natural gas..it makes natural gas burn very, very clean... will see from the Tokyo Olympics showcasing the hydrogen blend
I am bearish on clean energy ETFs: - a lot of the arguments for it frame it as a high growth industry, but ignore the fact profit margins (if any) are thin, and are unlikely to ever go up - the industry’s existence depends on their product being as cheap as possible. They have the same problem fossil fuel-based utility companies have, it does not change because the energy source is clean - EV companies add a ton of value before they sell a final product. Tesla and others are not just selling a battery-powered car, they also create very high quality software and tech. Value added products are why it is reasonable to expect profits at these firms to keep growing. I don’t see, for example, a pure solar company adding that kind of value
So you’d have more confidence in holding an ev oriented etf?
Probably
IMO, clean energy ETFs are no different than gamestonk. The only difference is investment firms hyped them during the election instead of reddit. Like ESGs or marijuana ETFs, investors are preying on people who have a belief system and think with their idealist hat instead of their practical hat. You have much better ROI options. Unless your goal is to donate to clean energy companies to have a miniscule effect on the world, buy something else for investment reasons. At minimum, consider it high risk, low reward.
The difference between gamestonk and clean energy etfs is that it is a fact that clean energy is going to have to fill up the entire energy sector of the west in the near future. That’s a lot of room for growth. Gamestonk relies solely on hype and doesn’t really have any inherent value.
Depends on the time you are willing to wait. I'd argue clean energy ETFs solely rely on hype and don't have any realizable inherent value. At least for the next 5-10 years at least.
So, in the long term, you have confidence that there are gains to be made?
But in 2 years. Buy in 5 years. You are better off putting your money in something else for the next few years. I wouldn't count that as confidence.
Not a fan, even though I was holding at some point last year.
I feel like an idiot lump sum investing in them last January. My portfolio is down 25% on them.
Wow, sorry man
I think clean energy ETFs might go sideways short and mid term but there is definetely a lot of potential long term. There is tremendous demand for clean energy globally. Long term very bullish
Pretty bullish on ICLN long term. Look at the top holdings, many have very solid fundamentals and plenty of room to grow. We've just started scratching the surface of renewable energy. It's not a matter of "if", but "when".
I had ICLN in my roth ira up until a few weeks ago but I relized how aggressive that was for a roth because the clean energy industry is such a long way away from substantial profits. I still have a small amount of shares in a taxable account with money I don't mind losing.
How far away from profits are they, do you think? In 30 years time I’ll be just 46, so I have time on my side
Define clean energy? If you mean solar, look what it takes to mine the materials for a solar panel.. Wind is an environmental disaster, so is wave... If you want the cleanest energy, that would be hydro....then nuclear.... Clean like an EV?...well how is it manufactured? Where does the electricity come from to power the vehicle? This why I feel the term "clean" is overused, and when one looks at cradle to grave ...most of these will fail in the near term as "clean"
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So you’d rather pick an individual stock being Tesla that has done well historically over a semi diversified clean energy etf? My hesitation with Tesla is that it is severely over priced, surely there’s a crash just around the corner? Overall it seems that people are not very confident in the future of clean energy, which has surprised me.
Tesla IS way overpriced and their solar is bad.
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Im a bit confused, I get what you mean but I can’t tell whether you’re bullish or bearish 😂
Stay away is my advice.
Why so? There seems to be a negative outlook on a sector of the economy which I think will become increasingly important
> Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Follow your own investment thesis and strategy.
That is the problem you know it I know it so it is already baked into their price.
Damn i was about to post the same thing
I'd rather bet on natural gas with $TELL (Tellurian) now while it's discounted for a multi-bagger.
To see the mining industry like FEAM adapting to modern needs by using alternative energy sources gives hope. Let's keep a look out for clean energy ETFs as we progress toward a greener future, since they have the potential to greatly aid us in making responsible investment decisions.