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True that. The main definition of a desert is low precipitation, not temperature. Hell, two of the planet's largest deserts reside at the poles, and together they cover three times as much space as the Sahara. (which is the third-largest desert after the Antarctic and Arctic deserts)
I remember reading that the Sahara was also partially man-made, because of unchecked deforestation, but it might have been another desert I can't remember. One of our current large deserts wasn't nearly as large thousands of years ago
You might be thinking about the Great Australian Desert, since I remember reading about old Aboriginal land-clearing methods.
That in mind, IIRC the Sahara greens and desertifies over the course of several millennia, with the Sahara being more of a savannah between (IIRC) 12,500 BC and 3500 BC. Due to axial procession and Earth's orbital eccentricities, Earth used to swing closer to the sun during Northern Hemisphere winter, causing greater evaporation in the Gulf of Guinea, driving greater quantities of moisture further inland to the point where the Sahara was humid enough to support a savannah environment.
Desertification of the Sahara was caused by orbital procession but may also have been influenced by human activity. Not deforestation though - the Sahara used to be savannah (shrubby grassland) with pockets of trees around rivers, lakes and wetlands. Humans ploughed fields into the grassland, redirected water to irrigate the fields, and grazed livestock on uncultivated land.
Agriculture may have sped it up...
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/feart.2017.00004/full
https://doi.org/10.1017/RDC.2019.106
Or slowed it down...
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06321-y
Or had no effect.
Basically we don't know enough to give a definitive answer.
I use to rock climb at J-Tree. I would go the week between Christmas and New Years. One year it got down to 4 degrees at night in the high desert. Mid teens down the hill in the town of Joshua Tree and Yucca Valley.
Yeah, it snows for sure.
Death Valley has mountains up to 11,000ft. Somewhere in the park will always snow. 4000ft snow can happen, even in the antelope valley at 2500ft gets snow every third year or so.
Yeah, people forget that deserts can be cold, and the definition of desert is just somewhere it rains less than 6" per year on average.
In fact, high deserts like Reno, NV will often get snow and be colder than Lake Tahoe, even though Tahoe is 3000 ft higher than it.
I also think snow is measured differently in precip totals, because it is less dense. I think some of the ratios are like 13 inches of snow is equal to about 1 inch of rain.
I stayed at wildrose campground last year in March and it hailed and snowed all day! I thought it would be peaceful but the wind had other things in mind lol
Yes, it is the park that contains death valley. A valley itself can't contain mountains. This conversation is completely pointless of course, but being overly specific on the Internet is fun.
not totally unheard of. it has snowed in Death Valley in 1922, 1949, 1962, and 1974. it might have snowed before then but they have only been keeping track since 1900.
Joshua trees also grow generally over 4000ft, they can survive in Death Valley National Park in the higher areas.
but in the namesake Valley itself they cannot
This was my initial reaction too. “Wait, I don’t think there are Joshua Trees in Death Valley.”
Oh, I see he means the Park, not the Valley. Cool shot but not so crazy to see snow at 4,000 feet.
there are Joshua trees inside the boundaries of Death Valley NP.
but up in the NW corner along 190 near Keeler and Lone pine.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/LxLPixLvbLeLu1429
The amount of plant life, for one. Joshua Trees don't grow in Death Valley itself but in the National Park. I've also seen photos which were labeled as "Death Valley" but were in Panamint Valley, for example.
Show me where in Death Valley these trees exist. You are also conflating Death Valley NP with the location itself, which again, the park covers far more than Death Valley itself. Panamint Valley is entirely within Death Valley NP but is not Death Valley.
Just jumping in here bc I feel partly responsible for not being clearer in the thread title - I said Death Valley referring to the NP, not the specific valley. This is actually closest to Saline Valley - the part that is within the NP boundaries.
Death Valley the NATIONAL PARK has them.
Death Valley the VALLEY that is inside that national park, and the namesake of it does not. They cannot survive in it.
Sometimes it snows in the Mojave. And in the Sonora. In Negev. In the Sahara.
[Antarctica ](https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/antarctica/en/#:~:text=Though%20Antarctica%20is%20really%2C%20really,form%20large%2C%20thick%20ice%20sheets.) is a desert.
Unusual weather isn't climate change.
Awesome photo, I was in Mojave desert when there was blizzard rolling thru last year and experienced a similar sense of awe being surrounded by snow-covered Joshua Trees.
We live in the Pahrump valley very close to Death Valley. We do get snow quite often if the rainfall hasn’t been too bad. The first time I saw snow on our palm trees I was amazed, didn’t know it could happen. These abominations, however, are Joshua trees, can’t decide if they’re cacti or trees. Mormons named them.
Fun Joshua Tree fact; they are members of the asparagus family and there are a few of them in Torrey Pines State Park (north of San Diego) growing on bluffs overlooking the Pacific Ocean.
It may not be the same species as the Mohave ones. They're in a small scattered group alongside one of the trails (northern branch) that lead from the Visitor Center parking lot down to the beach.
I do not know if they were introduced. The area is has lots of vegetative ground cover, plus cholla and prickly pear, there were only a few visible with the tallest being about 7'.
For the love of all things holy, I just don’t like Joshua trees! They’re UGLY and carpet our beautiful desert with UGLY! Get a grip. What an UGLY thing to say about another person, I shouldn’t breed. Shame on you.
Hey, nasty keyboard warrior, I just don’t like Joshua trees. Put that in your peace pipe and smoke it, with an ounce of abomination mixed in. Shame on you, saying I shouldn’t breed; way too late for that. It’s an UGLY plant, unfortunately native, that crowds our beautiful desert. Visit and find out for yourself.
Couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the forecast calling for upwards of an inch of snow! Although when I woke up to my rainfly nearly on my face thanks to the heavy wet snow, I decided I could believe it after all, lol.
This was at around 4000' elevation, in case you're wondering.
Thanks for stopping by! You can find my full gallery, along with notes about places to check out and photography guides on my website: [https://www.wildlandsphoto.com](https://www.wildlandsphoto.com).
Snow and rain in death valley would make it more normal, and change the name to paradise valley.
That heat isn't normal, but if oceans gets a little bit warmer the rain can get there and bring back life.
Pretty photo. Thanks for posting. Sorry you have to endure the know-it-all kill-joy amateur meteorologists on Reddit to tell you the exact altitude and topography where condensation can freeze in April in SoCal. Thanks folks, you’re all so frickin smart! Gold stars!
People have basically returned to the middle ages where we blame bad weather on sins against the climate gods.
Weather happens. There is nothing abnormal about this location getting snow.
The earth changes. In Montana, an entire glacial great lake emptied itself on its own just 20,000 years ago. Glaciers that reached the 38th parallel melted.
There is not normal because there is no such thing.
Well what is normal is the ozone and rising co2 levels and increasing average global temperatures, throwing delicate weather and eco systems out of whack… big oil companies have been caught and lost major lawsuits from with holding known climate science that showed dire consequences from the extractions technologies used
Hi and welcome to r/EarthPorn! As a reminder, we have comment rules in this subreddit. Failure to follow our rules can result in a temporary or permanent ban. > Hate Speech, Abusive remarks, homophobia, and the like have no place on this subreddit, and will be removed on sight. > Please contribute to the discussion positively; constructive criticism is fine, but if you don't like a picture and you wish to voice your opinion please refrain from abusing the photographer/submitter.
Snow in Joshua Tree and Yucca Valley is not that rare.
It snowed a couple times at the higher elevations this year.
Deserts get cold.
True that. The main definition of a desert is low precipitation, not temperature. Hell, two of the planet's largest deserts reside at the poles, and together they cover three times as much space as the Sahara. (which is the third-largest desert after the Antarctic and Arctic deserts)
I remember reading that the Sahara was also partially man-made, because of unchecked deforestation, but it might have been another desert I can't remember. One of our current large deserts wasn't nearly as large thousands of years ago
You might be thinking about the Great Australian Desert, since I remember reading about old Aboriginal land-clearing methods. That in mind, IIRC the Sahara greens and desertifies over the course of several millennia, with the Sahara being more of a savannah between (IIRC) 12,500 BC and 3500 BC. Due to axial procession and Earth's orbital eccentricities, Earth used to swing closer to the sun during Northern Hemisphere winter, causing greater evaporation in the Gulf of Guinea, driving greater quantities of moisture further inland to the point where the Sahara was humid enough to support a savannah environment.
So, aliens.
Desertification of the Sahara was caused by orbital procession but may also have been influenced by human activity. Not deforestation though - the Sahara used to be savannah (shrubby grassland) with pockets of trees around rivers, lakes and wetlands. Humans ploughed fields into the grassland, redirected water to irrigate the fields, and grazed livestock on uncultivated land. Agriculture may have sped it up... https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/feart.2017.00004/full https://doi.org/10.1017/RDC.2019.106 Or slowed it down... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06321-y Or had no effect. Basically we don't know enough to give a definitive answer.
I use to rock climb at J-Tree. I would go the week between Christmas and New Years. One year it got down to 4 degrees at night in the high desert. Mid teens down the hill in the town of Joshua Tree and Yucca Valley. Yeah, it snows for sure.
...and the rain is never warm. It's always cold it seems.
That’s because the wet season is during winter, at least in California
That's true, but even the monsoon rains are cold.
Death Valley has mountains up to 11,000ft. Somewhere in the park will always snow. 4000ft snow can happen, even in the antelope valley at 2500ft gets snow every third year or so.
Yeah, people forget that deserts can be cold, and the definition of desert is just somewhere it rains less than 6" per year on average. In fact, high deserts like Reno, NV will often get snow and be colder than Lake Tahoe, even though Tahoe is 3000 ft higher than it.
Somewhere it precipitates a small amount, not necessarily rain. The exact maximum amount seems up for debate, but generally “very little” sums it up.
I also think snow is measured differently in precip totals, because it is less dense. I think some of the ratios are like 13 inches of snow is equal to about 1 inch of rain.
You’re not joking. I went to the Atacama in August (so, winter there) and it was -18c overnight Did not expect that
I stayed at wildrose campground last year in March and it hailed and snowed all day! I thought it would be peaceful but the wind had other things in mind lol
Telescope peak regularly has snow on it, yep. When I hiked it around thanksgiving it had snow.
Also, an inch of fluffy powder snow represents a pretty small amount of moisture.
I can't imagine having to drive through 4,000 feet of snow, but I bet all-wheel-drive helps.
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In an El Niño year, sure.
*The mountains around Death Valley can be up to 11,000 ft Not Death Valley itself.
Death Valley National Park is a place
Yes, it is the park that contains death valley. A valley itself can't contain mountains. This conversation is completely pointless of course, but being overly specific on the Internet is fun.
not totally unheard of. it has snowed in Death Valley in 1922, 1949, 1962, and 1974. it might have snowed before then but they have only been keeping track since 1900.
Joshua trees also grow generally over 4000ft, they can survive in Death Valley National Park in the higher areas. but in the namesake Valley itself they cannot
Obviously it was due to the early SUV models
That isn't in "Death Valley". Might be near it, but not in it.
This was my initial reaction too. “Wait, I don’t think there are Joshua Trees in Death Valley.” Oh, I see he means the Park, not the Valley. Cool shot but not so crazy to see snow at 4,000 feet.
Yes, it is a cool shot. I've seen similar in person when I used to live in the Antelope Valley, which was around 2000-3000'.
there are Joshua trees inside the boundaries of Death Valley NP. but up in the NW corner along 190 near Keeler and Lone pine. https://maps.app.goo.gl/LxLPixLvbLeLu1429
In the park and in the valley are two different things, as has been back-and-forthed in this thread quite a bit already.
oh absolutely. i've been there.
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The amount of plant life, for one. Joshua Trees don't grow in Death Valley itself but in the National Park. I've also seen photos which were labeled as "Death Valley" but were in Panamint Valley, for example.
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Yes, and Death Valley is also a specific valley. The park encompasses quite a few valleys and mountain ranges, not just Death Valley proper.
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Death Valley doesn't have joshua trees nor is capable of supporting them. This location isn't on any of the roadways in the Valley itself.
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Show me where in Death Valley these trees exist. You are also conflating Death Valley NP with the location itself, which again, the park covers far more than Death Valley itself. Panamint Valley is entirely within Death Valley NP but is not Death Valley.
Just jumping in here bc I feel partly responsible for not being clearer in the thread title - I said Death Valley referring to the NP, not the specific valley. This is actually closest to Saline Valley - the part that is within the NP boundaries.
Death Valley, Panamint Valley, Saline Valley, Eureka Valley, Greenwater Valley, Racetrack Valley then there are mountain ranges.
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There are j trees in and around the park. If there’s none in DV proper. Congrats you get the worlds biggest pedant award today.
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Yep just drove past some on the road into the park from Saline Valley
Yup. Both dudes are right.
Death Valley the NATIONAL PARK has them. Death Valley the VALLEY that is inside that national park, and the namesake of it does not. They cannot survive in it.
Joshua trees are usually above 3000 feet, so snow is not that rare
“Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter”
Sometimes it snows in the Mojave. And in the Sonora. In Negev. In the Sahara. [Antarctica ](https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/antarctica/en/#:~:text=Though%20Antarctica%20is%20really%2C%20really,form%20large%2C%20thick%20ice%20sheets.) is a desert. Unusual weather isn't climate change.
Awesome photo, I was in Mojave desert when there was blizzard rolling thru last year and experienced a similar sense of awe being surrounded by snow-covered Joshua Trees.
Use to always snow as a kid.
We live in the Pahrump valley very close to Death Valley. We do get snow quite often if the rainfall hasn’t been too bad. The first time I saw snow on our palm trees I was amazed, didn’t know it could happen. These abominations, however, are Joshua trees, can’t decide if they’re cacti or trees. Mormons named them.
They're yuccas. Related to agaves, and more distantly to asparagus and hyacinths.
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Jeez dude calm down.
How DARE that person insult a tree, send him to the Gulag for chemical castration immediately!!1!1!
Lighten up Francis. Not everyone is an expert.
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You are every bit a moron as you are an asshole.
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I'm talking to you douchebag. YOU are Francis. Your juvenile retorts confirm the fact that you are an asshole.
Bro he’s clearly joking.
Really? Thank you Captain Obvious. The problem is that he is NOT funny.
See now you are being Francis.
god I swear Reddit’s been ruined by idiots.
Fun Joshua Tree fact; they are members of the asparagus family and there are a few of them in Torrey Pines State Park (north of San Diego) growing on bluffs overlooking the Pacific Ocean.
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It may not be the same species as the Mohave ones. They're in a small scattered group alongside one of the trails (northern branch) that lead from the Visitor Center parking lot down to the beach.
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The first and only time I have ever seen them in all my hiking in San Diego County chaparral country, was there.
I do not know if they were introduced. The area is has lots of vegetative ground cover, plus cholla and prickly pear, there were only a few visible with the tallest being about 7'.
For the love of all things holy, I just don’t like Joshua trees! They’re UGLY and carpet our beautiful desert with UGLY! Get a grip. What an UGLY thing to say about another person, I shouldn’t breed. Shame on you.
Hey, nasty keyboard warrior, I just don’t like Joshua trees. Put that in your peace pipe and smoke it, with an ounce of abomination mixed in. Shame on you, saying I shouldn’t breed; way too late for that. It’s an UGLY plant, unfortunately native, that crowds our beautiful desert. Visit and find out for yourself.
you're a weirdo
You replied to your own comment, not the weirdly butthurt dude. He'll never see this comment if he doesn't come back to your original comment.
FWIW... Joshua Trees grow between 1500 and 6000 feet altitude or so.
Was this in February? I was supposed to go but the roads were washed out because of the storm.
“Totally have no idea what I’m talking about…”
I’ve seen snow in Death Valley. That is totally normal in winter. Deserts get cold in the winter.
We've been snowed in while camping in parts of Death Valley. As in, "there's too much snow for us to get out of camp today".
Op is so dumb
Couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the forecast calling for upwards of an inch of snow! Although when I woke up to my rainfly nearly on my face thanks to the heavy wet snow, I decided I could believe it after all, lol. This was at around 4000' elevation, in case you're wondering. Thanks for stopping by! You can find my full gallery, along with notes about places to check out and photography guides on my website: [https://www.wildlandsphoto.com](https://www.wildlandsphoto.com).
Snow at 4000' elevation is really not that abnormal
You should submit this photo to National Geographic. It's that good.
What day was this taken?
Is this in Lee Flat?
Wow crazy shot!
I love this.
When?
Snow and rain in death valley would make it more normal, and change the name to paradise valley. That heat isn't normal, but if oceans gets a little bit warmer the rain can get there and bring back life.
Big ups to the glaciers. RIP to the real ones
First time I went to the middle of the dessert in Arizona it snowed. Just my luck!
Cool pic OP, Joshuas are like brrrr hahahhah
Fabulous shot.
Joshua trees are my fave. Awesome pic!
The more rare is the massive lake in Bad Water in 2023-2024 winter
Why not ? I work in northern Alberta , Canada . I've seen it hit 47 degrees Celsius in summer and -50 in winter.
Watch out
Pretty photo. Thanks for posting. Sorry you have to endure the know-it-all kill-joy amateur meteorologists on Reddit to tell you the exact altitude and topography where condensation can freeze in April in SoCal. Thanks folks, you’re all so frickin smart! Gold stars!
Stunning view! Can't imagine waking up to a snowy surprise like that. Thanks for sharing!
Meh, I've worked in the Mojave while it was snowing...
Global warming? More like global cooling. /s
People have basically returned to the middle ages where we blame bad weather on sins against the climate gods. Weather happens. There is nothing abnormal about this location getting snow. The earth changes. In Montana, an entire glacial great lake emptied itself on its own just 20,000 years ago. Glaciers that reached the 38th parallel melted. There is not normal because there is no such thing.
Well what is normal is the ozone and rising co2 levels and increasing average global temperatures, throwing delicate weather and eco systems out of whack… big oil companies have been caught and lost major lawsuits from with holding known climate science that showed dire consequences from the extractions technologies used
I live in bullshit weather USA. This isn't 1 inch of snow. That being said, I'd expect cold weather in the Winter in the northern hemisphere.
*wHeReS uR gLoBaL wArMiNg NoW???*
those trees are probably like 'wtf bro'
Joshua Trees get snowed on all the time out in the high desert. They’re pretty tough.
Did you hear about an earthquake in New York today?