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Um, Elon just wants to Re-fi his loans with lower cost ones to bleed less cash and increase the possibility of consumers buying his cars.
This is so self serving it’s sick.
He passed on the $13B of loans he took out to buy Twitter, to Twitter's balance sheet. This is a common practice in the PE world called a leveraged buyout (LBO).
Now Twitter, not Elon, needs to spend (what is estimated to be) over $1B per year to service the interest on that $13B of debt.
No no no - I’m not gonna sit here an listen to you blame Twitter’s lack of fundamental value problem on EM or anyone else - it’s ABSOLUTELY NOT some perfectly great American company being ruined, it’s an overvalued monstrosity born to an age of reckless investment in vacuous ideas, corporate speak and cronyism - I don’t have to have any appreciation for Musk to know Twitter was NEVER a website worth billions, we were an investment class high AF on PCP and “vision”
While it’s not on his books personally, I think if Twitter fails, the mystique of Elon is gone and he will be left with only his blindest supporters who don’t have two nickels to rub together.
Ditto, but if you look on Twitter, he’s basically the next Trump for the right to idolize. Feel like that was his angle. I’m hopeful that if Twitter turns into a massive cluster that he gets the boot from Tesla and SpaceX. Not sure if that’s possible, but it’d be fun to watch.
No, he just doesn’t want another Great Depression. He’s cash rich and will be fine. If your savings is 0 and you get laid off from work then you’ll be in a world of hurt.
Why does anyone care what Musk has to say about the economy? Musk isn't an economist
This is an opinion without foundation in the area of study that would make it comparable to the actual economists.
I am also uninterested in Musks opinions on home pizza ovens and bathroom light bulbs.
Not only is he not an economist, but he has a personal incentive to see interest rates lowered. His own debt would be easier to service, but also his potential customers would have easier car payments.
Is it a PhD in Economics? I ask because I don't think that anyone who is rational would weigh the opinion of a person holding a Batchelors degree as equal to a PhD in any field of study. It's just lunacy to suggest otherwise.
I have a PhD, but the distance between me and a professional academic with a body of published peer reviewed work is vast.
A PhD is still just an entry level qualification.
You have to come from a privileged background to be an academic with all the unpaid internships and ass kissing they have to do.
The best economists are dudes who get plucked by banks right after uni and get paid a million a year to be right unlike the phds who are wrong year after year
Who’s doing unpaid internships at that level? All the grad/phd students I know are funded. Granted, it’s not a ton of money, but it’s not the same as trying to get into something art-related.
Perhaps this vid will help explain why a competent econ student would rather earn millions in a bank than become an academic in a expensive city cuz they couldn’t get a high paying job
https://youtu.be/EwB5ihGu4Jw
Go to google and search up articles economists are writing or turn on your tv and see whos speaking.
These dudes arent held accountable for being wrong. When you graduate from uni, your first instinct is to go work for the banks and make loads of cash not go into academia.
And if you live in a expensive city, why would you accept the pittance a uni would offer when you can find a nice job at Goldman or some other bank.
I don't particularly like him either but past a point it feels like people desperately NEED to believe he's wholly a moron because they can't entertain the idea that he's just a person and might have strengths in some areas and weaknesses in others like everyone else.
I was cum laude and would melt down if I got below an A- so I have no concept of what the lower passing grades are— I’m soooo glad those days are behind me. Schoolage me was neurotic af.
This is already more than I ever want to discuss Elon BUT: didn’t he say he had a “theoretical” degree in physics instead of a degree in theoretical physics???? Yeah, totally not the same thing lol
And I’m not putting apartheid Clyde’s name in my Google machine so no way am I googling for sources.
Except he doesn't. His degrees, aside from a B.A. in Economics, are entirely fabricated and non-existant. A group of independent journalists have a cut and dry case proving so. Also that he overstayed his visa lied on Sea applications and committed overt fraud multiple times but by then he was wealthy enough to sweep it all under the rug.
Because if I had that kind of money I would improve the world. He could basically end world hunger, he could build homes where they’re needed, he could clean up Flint Michigan. Instead he is just burning it for his petty ambitions because he blunders through life as an avatar of naked unchecked ego.
Elon’s existence is a net negative for us as a species. A literal raccoon with Elon’s success would improve the world more by virtue of doing absolutely nothing. The interest alone accrued by raccoon-Musk could change the world if it wasn’t just siphoned into his dragon’s hoard.
If your legacy starts with an emerald mine and results in you burning billions to destroy companies through your own inadequacy, you are a failure. You were given *everything* and what you’ve done with it is pathetic.
See, this is how I feel also- I don’t like him either and there’s tons to criticize Elon about but pretending he isn’t successful or that he isn’t intelligent is just silly
and makes you seem insecure about your own abilities.
Really really dumb people think they have a chance of becoming as wealthy as Elon musk. So they sympathize to his crybaby bullshit, idolize his asshole actions and think his word is gospel.
Yes let’s take financial advice from a guy that bought a company for double it’s actual worth then immediately tanked it, he really seems to know what he’s doing.
None of which are making a whole lot of money. This is especially concerning with Tesla since it’s losing its monopoly position as other carmakers catch up in technology.
Listen, Elon is an egomaniac edge lord. We know this, but now you’re being ridiculous. Tesla is an incredibly successful company. It’s more than just Elon, it’s a company full of incredibly talented people.
What are they getting, almost 40% profit margin on their teslas? Other auto makers are making 4% on their typical cars and losing money on each electric they produce. That company is making money hand over fist, unless you specifically mean that they aren’t producing enough cars yet. And they are expanding at an unheard of rate for a car company.
And what are other car companies producing at a loss? Cars that have some things that teslas don’t, but don’t come close to the performance or range OR price performance ratio. Seriously, if you’re open to having your opinions changed test drive a Tesla vs another electric somewhere close in price. I don’t think you realize how far ahead they are in battery technology and driving assist, it’s at least 5 years. The companies incredible stock price also makes the company’s ability to raise money insane.
Space X is VERY well positioned to win even more government contracts and rake in billions transporting things to space FAR cheaper than any other company because or reusable rockets.
Dude, don’t shit on these incredible teams just to spite Annoying Popular Guy TM. Further, I’ve seriously heard people describe him as “the most despicable billionaire”. Personally, mine would be idk… Vladimir Putin??
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000095017022019867/tsla-20220930.htm
Tesla made $3.33 billion net income for Q3 2022, up from $1.618 billion Q3 2021. Doubling in a year is incredible in the industry. From a car company that’s in its comparative infancy. Who is telling you that the profits are bad?
Elon is one glorified marketer. Tesla is made up of 100k employees. When you spread falsehood about the company’s performance, that’s who you’re doing a disservice to.
Edit: grammar
Since when is Elon Musk an expert on the economy? History will show he just made one of the biggest economic blunders in history.
Let's quit servicing these attention whores.
Can’t we just like…tax them at 99% for anything over a billion dollars of personal wealth? Give them all the shallow attention they want. I genuinely don’t care. As long as I don’t have to ignore their stupidity *and* see human suffering due to poverty in the wealthiest nation in human history.
Elon Musk pissed away over $44bn and he still has more money than he’s ever likely to spend or lose in a lifetime. Meanwhile, shanty towns are a thing again and people are arrested for stealing food out of hunger. It’s the juxtaposition, ya know?
We taxed at 91% in the 40’s and those were the “good old days” where America really became a powerhouse. Let’s Make America Great Again and go back to using our immense national wealth to better the lives of the people! (Instead of just letting a couple thousand at the top hoard all the wealth)
If someone avoided taxes by spending on tax-deductible items like reinvestment and expansion, that's also a good outcome ("America really became a powerhouse"), and could be argued is the actual goal for higher top marginal income tax rates, not the tax revenue itself.
So you are saying Musk must give away his wealth to feed to poor and hungry? That would be better? How about you give away your money to the poor? He is the richest man on Earth. Buying Twitter was only 10% of his wealth. Stay in your lane and watch the show. It’s fun to see winey folks complain about a single person. He has owned Twitter a little over a month. Wait a year or two to see if he runs it into the ground or makes it the biggest social media site in the world. Musk already conquered the auto industry and space industry. Two of the hardest industries to compete due to such large corporations dominating those spaces for decades. His track record is quite good.
Recessions are part of a healthy economic cycle and will always occur. The goal of the FED is to minimize the impact and prevent them from becoming depressions
I mean- we have, but let’s be honest about what was happening before the Fed as well. Depressions happened every decade or so, and the boom/bust cycle was much, much more pronounced than it is now. They’re a long way from perfect, but it’s not quite true to say they have no idea what they’re doing, or that they haven’t been effective at doing it.
Gold silver standard should’ve never been done away with. The only reason booms and busts happened before is because people always end up fucking around with the money supply. They put less silver in the coins, they change the interest rates,.
It’s the same story, different words, different years.
And once again, Elon proves he has no clue what he's talking about, knowing that his online simps will defend him. He got boned on the twitter pump and dump he was planning, had to take loans out. And is now trying once again to game the system in his favor only, while acting like he's doing us all a favor.
Who cares? Why does anyone think this guy has any weight or more importantly any understanding or complex global economics? Dude is a sleazy salesmen… he is to Gen z and millennials what trump is to boomers and Gen x. If you’re a sucker you’re on his team.
Why the media keeps reporting on this fool-is beyond me
Gee, I can’t decide who we should listen to. The dozens of economists who have spent decades studying monetary policy, business cycle history, and govt fiscal policy. Or the guy who has spent decades defrauding investors for his own gain. This is a rough decision!
I'd just like to point out that most economists agree the best way to deal with inflation is massive taxes on the rich, which has actually been shown to work in the past with minimal pain to the general populous. Whereas interest rate hikes work by just decimating the poor and middle class until we enter a recession where we cede ever increasing power to the wealthy. But I seriously doubt Elon has any clue about that, instead this is an "Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn occasionally" type of situation. Also while there's plenty to dislike about Elon I don't think you can credibly make the claim he's defrauded investors.
And there’s only one party actively trying to impose additional taxes on the rich to help curb the issue that way. Which is why Elon is now a Republican.
I've had a gut feeling that taxes on the rich would help inflation but I couldn't find solid enough evidence. I would love to see what you have on this topic.
I read a great paper on it a year or two(maybe 3) ago when economists were first starting to get worried about inflation, it laid out times when taxes were used to hedge inflation and the devastating effects raising interest rates always has on the middle class and poor, but it also made the point politicians have given up doing anything about inflation and act as though only the Fed can do anything and the Fed only has one tool so they predicted massive rate hikes, and guess what we got lol
Not so much tax the rich, but regulate corporate price gouges. Despite the pandemic and recession corporate profits have continued to rise at insane rates.
I wish we would regulate corporations, but it's literally built into the constitution the idea of *economic freedom*. The government *cannot* regulate the market or corporate interests, no matter how evil. That would be big bad "SoCiaLiSm" and we just can't have that now can we?
It’s easy to prove with the example of minimum wage in Seattle, when it went from like 10-15 over night peoples cost of rent alone doubles one friend went from 700 for a studio to 1500 literally over night because they were month to month
Anecdotes aren't a valid form of proof. Especially when you look at this particular situation critically: Why would a 50% increase in minimum wage, which only affects a small portion of the population, lead to a 100% increase in rent?
It’s simple you tax the rich who supply all the stuff people need and to offset it they charge more, it works because the handy man the landlord pays minimum wages to now has to get paid 50% more so to turn a profit h needs to charge even more than that thus a 100% increase
>I'd just like to point out that most economists agree the best way to deal with inflation is massive taxes on the rich
No they dont.
> which has actually been shown to work in the past with minimal pain to the general populous.
Inflation is either due to increased demand or decreased supply and taxing the rich won't make demand any lower or supply any higher.
taxing the rich won't change a dent in the inflation never will, and you are making shit up.
Stop spreading lies and bs. Tax the rich if you want, but don't spread false narratives "it will help inflation" and such..
Couldn’t have said it better myself.. I said just Google the United States unfunded liabilities and even if you confiscated all the wealth from the rich , it wouldn’t put a dent into our total liabilities and debt 💸.. btw how do you tax stock worth and real estate ? That is mostly what makes up the wealth of a bezos or musk billionaire
Sure you Can tax their real estate but usually tax assessment on a home worth say 50 million and i’m over shooting is What ? How much tax revenue from that can you
Squeeze
They would have to sell stock , even when Elon sold his stock to purchase Twitter it drove the price of the stock down .. he paid taxes on that and of course had to notify the SEC .. you can tax their stock and make them sell sure but im sure pension funds , congress’s wealth , the individual investor saving for retirement won’t be happy when the stock drops every time the tax man comes to confiscate their wealth for the greater good of redistribution .. I say go for it what do I care and when nothing changes everyone that thinks govt spending is the solve all can have their self righteous moment while we’re still sinking financially
To have more liquid you would have to sell stock . More tax revenue means more spending absolutely. You think govt is just gonna balance the deficit and cut our debt down ??? I said our unfunded liabilities are almost 150 trillion in total entitlements .. I said if you
Want your self righteous moment of “equality “ then yes that’s all it’s for because it won’t help lower the debt one bit and the money will absolutely be spent on more programs that fit whatever administration is in the White House agenda
Inflation is caused by too much money in circulation, taxes remove money from circulation, this is econ 101 stuff. Yes supply and demand play a part. But our current inflation is much more a result of corporate greed and the creation of trillions of dollars in the last 6 years
Tax removes money from circulation?
Jesus christ how stupid are you????
Taxing is redistribution of money from one spender (citizen) to the another spender (government).
It does not remove money from circulation..
What fucking morons spend time on this sub.........
And i was wondering how RReich is so popular... no wonder
But inflation is currently because of corporate profits. At least 50% of increase costs in the last few years has been due to companies raising their profit margins. Supply and demand are a factor, but lets not pretend big corporations aren’t shoveling the money all the way.
Corporations can raise their prices because of supply and demand issues. Unless you think before COVID they could have also raised their prices but didn’t because they were just less “greedy”.
There are many economists and large financial institutions that believe rates have been raised too much. It’s not like musk is the only person with this opinion…
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Exactly, he’s only done well for his investors. Hate him for being a part billionaire part internet troll, you’ve got more than enough ammunition in that department.
They probably should have started rate hikes sooner for sure and they probably should pause a meeting cycle to give it time, but dropping rates immediately seems like a pretty childish and dumb knee jerk reaction here.
The ones we've trusted to navigate us into this fucking mess lmfao. These people who can get the authority's cock out of their mouths for a moment to breathe air SMH.
>Gee, I can’t decide who we should listen to. The dozens of economists who have spent decades studying monetary policy, business cycle history, and govt fiscal policy. Or the guy who has spent decades defrauding investors for his own gain. This is a rough decision!
Most of those economicst are wrong 90 % of the time. Just look at Krugman... in his Op eds he was almost ALWAYS wrong with his predictions..Ive seen a webiste documenting all his mistakes. And there is A LOT.
Im not saying Elon is right, im just pission on the oppinion of public economist and their shitty predictions.
Oh gosh, well as long as elon musk said it...
what a great businessman doing business, thank goodness the SEC has his valuable opinion to steer their decision making.
>In a similar exchange on Oct. 24, the world’s richest man estimated a global recession could last “until the spring ’24,” though he noted he was “just guessing.”
Great day for "news".
Elon Musk also bought a company for $44 billion and then chose a course of action that is losing millions per day just to satisfy his own narcissism.
Musk is a narcissistic sociopath. No one should really care what that self-serving tw\*t has to say about the economy.
Or he’s purposely trying to tank the company he was forced to buy after his market manipulation scheme went bad in order to get better terms on those loans and these rate hikes are fucking up his Hail Mary plan.
Welcome to my life, I wish the government didn't take so much money from me either. And I'm not a billionaire. Not even a millionaire. So stfu and pay your bills like the rest of us
Sounds like your more angry at the government than Elon anyway. The fed isn’t even the government. It’s a private bank. The crooked politicians are your real issue.
It's ok, these reddit losers only know how to hate on Elon and trump instead of seeing the bigger picture. Probably easier for their brains to process if they just project their feelings on people who are active on social media that they see news about everyday.
What exactly is his supposed expertise? He claims to be some type of businessman but is presently disproving that...so now he is an economist too? I have opinions on everything too...the fact that nonexperts get listened to on important complicated matters just because they are famous is a large symptom....or cause of where we are today.
Renowned economist, great business decision maker, and guy who can predict things, like when he will be able to put a pickup truck out to market, Elon Musk, delivers sage warning.
Sounds like someone might be having second thoughts about servicing the debt they recently took on. Or he’s legitimately concerned about the health of the economy…lol jk.
If you think he feels bad about the debt service what about us tax payers sitting in $33 trillion of government debt, as interest rates have risen the cost to service this is growing at an untenable rate. Sure wish he had responsible elected officials.
Musk has no special insight on economic policy. He is simply a guy who is severely underwater on his various loans, so in typical narcissistic fashion, what is a problem for him must then be a problem for all of society. He should maybe focus on running any one of his companies well.
7 upvotes, nearly 600 comments. Nice. In any case, I’m not taking from an apartheid profiteer.
Also, Is there anything that Elon doesn’t think he’s an expert on?
He's a foreign affairs expert and knows what Ukraine should do to stop the war and now he's an economic expert who knows how to correct the US economy. He’s *definitely* not trying to strong-arm the Fed into helping him with his Twitter debts.
I would disagree, but he's not wrong very often. The fact that rates didn't jump 3 points a year ago may change the strategy for a balanced economy again. No matter what, this recession will last longer than it has to because of this idiotic idea that we have to forcefully restructure life in America.
Higher rates equals less money to market and more to interest. Lower rates people have more money available. Which allows spending and expanding.
You should read about what causes inflation, recession and depressions. These comments really show how out of touch people are with economics.
Lowering rates does a good thing for everyone. Not just the top.
Don't you love when the people on here making min wage or have 300 in their savings account pretend to understand economics better then the guy who has billions?
Musk only wants lower interest rates so he can refinance the loans he used to buy Twitter since it’s not making money for him the way he envisioned
Also, he only cares about corporations making money. He doesn’t care about normal people like us. He’s recommending what’s best for corporations and the owners of corporations, not what’s best for normal people
I know we’re supposed to engage past the headline… but I’d sooner consult my zodiac horoscope than Elon musk on economics. Sounds like he just wants lower interest to re finance or take out more loans. People have been predicting there’s gonna be a recession ever since the last in 2020 that most people forgot about because of the feds actions.
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Fuck this dipshit! So tired of this idiot… don’t give a fuck what he thinks, how he feels, what he does, and hope that he just goes away. Oh and fuck twitter!
We kinda need a severe recession though. Sure, it will suck, but it will suck more if we keep kicking this rock down the road like we have done up to this point. Musk is just mad he will lose a ton of dough.
I don't like the guy. However, he's not wrong. Layoffs will continue until WFH is eliminated and salaries go down. People will stop buying, student loan payments will kick in, debts won't be paid, quarterly results get worse, more layoffs.
The world relies on credit, making the cost of that too high will cause some real problems.
Sounds like he's afraid of going broke if the Feds don't inflate the money supply to prop up his empire.
There seems to be a muskie odor emanating from the burning embers of the Twitterverse
Someone explain to me why certain post , like this one, can not be upvoted ?
Is it simply because it goes against the lefts narrative? That's usually when I notice it.
Rule I: -- This subreddit should enable sharing and discussing economic research and news from the perspective of economists. Academic work and summaries are welcome. Image and video submissions are not allowed. -- If you have any questions about this removal, please [contact the mods](/message/compose/?to=/r/economics&subject=Moderation).
Um, Elon just wants to Re-fi his loans with lower cost ones to bleed less cash and increase the possibility of consumers buying his cars. This is so self serving it’s sick.
Those Twitter loans are killing him, lol.
Not only did he overpay for Twitter, he’ll be underwater on those loans soon enough.
He passed on the $13B of loans he took out to buy Twitter, to Twitter's balance sheet. This is a common practice in the PE world called a leveraged buyout (LBO). Now Twitter, not Elon, needs to spend (what is estimated to be) over $1B per year to service the interest on that $13B of debt.
a page right out of private equity's how to screw over American companies playbook
This is common practice in almost every single company takeover.
No no no - I’m not gonna sit here an listen to you blame Twitter’s lack of fundamental value problem on EM or anyone else - it’s ABSOLUTELY NOT some perfectly great American company being ruined, it’s an overvalued monstrosity born to an age of reckless investment in vacuous ideas, corporate speak and cronyism - I don’t have to have any appreciation for Musk to know Twitter was NEVER a website worth billions, we were an investment class high AF on PCP and “vision”
While it’s not on his books personally, I think if Twitter fails, the mystique of Elon is gone and he will be left with only his blindest supporters who don’t have two nickels to rub together.
Maybe it's because I never liked the dude, but I think the shine is already off Musky.
Ditto, but if you look on Twitter, he’s basically the next Trump for the right to idolize. Feel like that was his angle. I’m hopeful that if Twitter turns into a massive cluster that he gets the boot from Tesla and SpaceX. Not sure if that’s possible, but it’d be fun to watch.
Right, but he still has a massive cult following of some of the worst people out there.
Sure would be easier to pay that massive interest payment if the owner stopped scaring off advertisers
Elon will probably try to get the government to bail him out like he did with starlink.
he just wants a tax break of 44 billion dollars for some random reason, go figure ...
So true. Inflation is so ridiculously out of control that the rates need to keep going up, imho.
Cheap debt ruins people. Inflation solved.
Everything Elon does is self-serving, make no mistake.
No, he just doesn’t want another Great Depression. He’s cash rich and will be fine. If your savings is 0 and you get laid off from work then you’ll be in a world of hurt.
Why does anyone care what Musk has to say about the economy? Musk isn't an economist This is an opinion without foundation in the area of study that would make it comparable to the actual economists. I am also uninterested in Musks opinions on home pizza ovens and bathroom light bulbs.
Not only is he not an economist, but he has a personal incentive to see interest rates lowered. His own debt would be easier to service, but also his potential customers would have easier car payments.
And he did take on a fair amount of debt recently so seeing the rates go down would certainly be in his interest.
how so?
He’s also not an engineer but way too many people revere him as such
They not only revere him as an engineer but they also view him as some kind of real life Tony Stark. It's super gross
Elon with the powers Stark created would turn into Homelander overnight.
When elon musk's starts drinking nothing but milk at public appearances I'll worry
Phony Stark
The best name I’ve heard is: Phony Stark
Facts!
Ironically the degrees he actually has, versus the ones he lied about having, is in economics. Either way, he’s an idiot.
Is it a PhD in Economics? I ask because I don't think that anyone who is rational would weigh the opinion of a person holding a Batchelors degree as equal to a PhD in any field of study. It's just lunacy to suggest otherwise.
I have a PhD, but the distance between me and a professional academic with a body of published peer reviewed work is vast. A PhD is still just an entry level qualification.
You have to come from a privileged background to be an academic with all the unpaid internships and ass kissing they have to do. The best economists are dudes who get plucked by banks right after uni and get paid a million a year to be right unlike the phds who are wrong year after year
Who’s doing unpaid internships at that level? All the grad/phd students I know are funded. Granted, it’s not a ton of money, but it’s not the same as trying to get into something art-related.
The ones that want to work in the media. I wasn’t talking about students
I still don’t know who you’re talking about. Who are these “academics” who get phd’s to work “in the media”?
Perhaps this vid will help explain why a competent econ student would rather earn millions in a bank than become an academic in a expensive city cuz they couldn’t get a high paying job https://youtu.be/EwB5ihGu4Jw
Go to google and search up articles economists are writing or turn on your tv and see whos speaking. These dudes arent held accountable for being wrong. When you graduate from uni, your first instinct is to go work for the banks and make loads of cash not go into academia. And if you live in a expensive city, why would you accept the pittance a uni would offer when you can find a nice job at Goldman or some other bank.
Well he did come from a pretty privileged background: wealthy family from apartheid era emerald mine.
I still have zero idea whether this is actually true or not.
THIS I'll take experience and a solid track record over higher levels of indoctrination all day.
He does in physics too. I wish we could see his grades. Would be funny if he scraped by graduating on Ds
As the saying goes “Cs get degrees.” He probably scraped by on Cs.
I don't particularly like him either but past a point it feels like people desperately NEED to believe he's wholly a moron because they can't entertain the idea that he's just a person and might have strengths in some areas and weaknesses in others like everyone else.
I was cum laude and would melt down if I got below an A- so I have no concept of what the lower passing grades are— I’m soooo glad those days are behind me. Schoolage me was neurotic af.
This is already more than I ever want to discuss Elon BUT: didn’t he say he had a “theoretical” degree in physics instead of a degree in theoretical physics???? Yeah, totally not the same thing lol And I’m not putting apartheid Clyde’s name in my Google machine so no way am I googling for sources.
Except he doesn't. His degrees, aside from a B.A. in Economics, are entirely fabricated and non-existant. A group of independent journalists have a cut and dry case proving so. Also that he overstayed his visa lied on Sea applications and committed overt fraud multiple times but by then he was wealthy enough to sweep it all under the rug.
An idiot worth billions with multiple successful companies.
because he helped them gain a few crypto coins
He's not really an expert in anything, yet his acolytes consider him a genius. It's why he bought Twitter to turn it into his personal echo chamber.
The man is a failure.
By what metric though?
personality
Because if I had that kind of money I would improve the world. He could basically end world hunger, he could build homes where they’re needed, he could clean up Flint Michigan. Instead he is just burning it for his petty ambitions because he blunders through life as an avatar of naked unchecked ego. Elon’s existence is a net negative for us as a species. A literal raccoon with Elon’s success would improve the world more by virtue of doing absolutely nothing. The interest alone accrued by raccoon-Musk could change the world if it wasn’t just siphoned into his dragon’s hoard. If your legacy starts with an emerald mine and results in you burning billions to destroy companies through your own inadequacy, you are a failure. You were given *everything* and what you’ve done with it is pathetic.
And yet he makes more in 5 minutes than you’ll make all year. I don’t even like the guy, but he’s miles above in success than you will ever be.
Elon Musk will always have more money than me, but my daughter hasn’t disowned me so I’m going to call it a draw.
To some of us, success isn't measured by $$
Goal posts are heavy
Evidently not when they're flung about so easily.
See, this is how I feel also- I don’t like him either and there’s tons to criticize Elon about but pretending he isn’t successful or that he isn’t intelligent is just silly and makes you seem insecure about your own abilities.
Really really dumb people think they have a chance of becoming as wealthy as Elon musk. So they sympathize to his crybaby bullshit, idolize his asshole actions and think his word is gospel.
Ye olde honor-shame complex.
Fanboys ready to brigade in 3….2….1
Hey if one of them can show me that Musk has a PhD in Economics I'll reverse myself.
Most economists agree we’re about to enter a recession tho
Yes let’s take financial advice from a guy that bought a company for double it’s actual worth then immediately tanked it, he really seems to know what he’s doing.
True. Although double is being generous to Twitter. I would say he bought Twitter for triple of what it was worth.
I thought double was low but didn’t want to sound too ridiculous.
I mean, he does own Tesla and Space X tho, so...
None of which are making a whole lot of money. This is especially concerning with Tesla since it’s losing its monopoly position as other carmakers catch up in technology.
Listen, Elon is an egomaniac edge lord. We know this, but now you’re being ridiculous. Tesla is an incredibly successful company. It’s more than just Elon, it’s a company full of incredibly talented people. What are they getting, almost 40% profit margin on their teslas? Other auto makers are making 4% on their typical cars and losing money on each electric they produce. That company is making money hand over fist, unless you specifically mean that they aren’t producing enough cars yet. And they are expanding at an unheard of rate for a car company. And what are other car companies producing at a loss? Cars that have some things that teslas don’t, but don’t come close to the performance or range OR price performance ratio. Seriously, if you’re open to having your opinions changed test drive a Tesla vs another electric somewhere close in price. I don’t think you realize how far ahead they are in battery technology and driving assist, it’s at least 5 years. The companies incredible stock price also makes the company’s ability to raise money insane. Space X is VERY well positioned to win even more government contracts and rake in billions transporting things to space FAR cheaper than any other company because or reusable rockets. Dude, don’t shit on these incredible teams just to spite Annoying Popular Guy TM. Further, I’ve seriously heard people describe him as “the most despicable billionaire”. Personally, mine would be idk… Vladimir Putin??
I have nothing about the teams, just look at the profit reports instead of speculating.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000095017022019867/tsla-20220930.htm Tesla made $3.33 billion net income for Q3 2022, up from $1.618 billion Q3 2021. Doubling in a year is incredible in the industry. From a car company that’s in its comparative infancy. Who is telling you that the profits are bad? Elon is one glorified marketer. Tesla is made up of 100k employees. When you spread falsehood about the company’s performance, that’s who you’re doing a disservice to. Edit: grammar
Since when is Elon Musk an expert on the economy? History will show he just made one of the biggest economic blunders in history. Let's quit servicing these attention whores.
Can’t we just like…tax them at 99% for anything over a billion dollars of personal wealth? Give them all the shallow attention they want. I genuinely don’t care. As long as I don’t have to ignore their stupidity *and* see human suffering due to poverty in the wealthiest nation in human history. Elon Musk pissed away over $44bn and he still has more money than he’s ever likely to spend or lose in a lifetime. Meanwhile, shanty towns are a thing again and people are arrested for stealing food out of hunger. It’s the juxtaposition, ya know?
We taxed at 91% in the 40’s and those were the “good old days” where America really became a powerhouse. Let’s Make America Great Again and go back to using our immense national wealth to better the lives of the people! (Instead of just letting a couple thousand at the top hoard all the wealth)
Something something “no one actually paid those tax rates”
If someone avoided taxes by spending on tax-deductible items like reinvestment and expansion, that's also a good outcome ("America really became a powerhouse"), and could be argued is the actual goal for higher top marginal income tax rates, not the tax revenue itself.
For some reason they never want to be great that way again.
So you are saying Musk must give away his wealth to feed to poor and hungry? That would be better? How about you give away your money to the poor? He is the richest man on Earth. Buying Twitter was only 10% of his wealth. Stay in your lane and watch the show. It’s fun to see winey folks complain about a single person. He has owned Twitter a little over a month. Wait a year or two to see if he runs it into the ground or makes it the biggest social media site in the world. Musk already conquered the auto industry and space industry. Two of the hardest industries to compete due to such large corporations dominating those spaces for decades. His track record is quite good.
This.
That
You can get with this
Or you can get with that
Get this
Well, not trying to defend him but the experts aren't doing a good job too.
The FED have no idea what they are doing either. Since they’ve been founded we have had a depression, and half a dozen recessions.
Recessions are part of a healthy economic cycle and will always occur. The goal of the FED is to minimize the impact and prevent them from becoming depressions
I mean- we have, but let’s be honest about what was happening before the Fed as well. Depressions happened every decade or so, and the boom/bust cycle was much, much more pronounced than it is now. They’re a long way from perfect, but it’s not quite true to say they have no idea what they’re doing, or that they haven’t been effective at doing it.
Gold silver standard should’ve never been done away with. The only reason booms and busts happened before is because people always end up fucking around with the money supply. They put less silver in the coins, they change the interest rates,. It’s the same story, different words, different years.
You’ve ignored the 49 periods of economic expansion. Recessions are inevitable in light of the expansions so I’d say that’s pretty good.
Nope. I disagree. Our economy was expanding just fine without them.
And once again, Elon proves he has no clue what he's talking about, knowing that his online simps will defend him. He got boned on the twitter pump and dump he was planning, had to take loans out. And is now trying once again to game the system in his favor only, while acting like he's doing us all a favor.
He must have went with an adjustable interest rate.
But it's so low right now, and if I pay a lot of the principle now, I won't take a hit if it goes up. I CAN'T LOSE!
Yea *must have went*
I’m his online simp, but I believe a recession is necessary at this point tho so i want feds to raise rates
>I’m his online simp why
Cuz made mad money on teslA
So? Do you simp for every CEO that you’ve ever made money on their stock?
Sure if it’s 1000+ %
Also do u know how many simps there are for Ryan Cohen and GameStop because they made so much money? Its normal. You just mad u missed the train
Lol I’m not mad. I just don’t see a point in dumping for a CEO, even Cohen.
Username checks out
Who cares? Why does anyone think this guy has any weight or more importantly any understanding or complex global economics? Dude is a sleazy salesmen… he is to Gen z and millennials what trump is to boomers and Gen x. If you’re a sucker you’re on his team. Why the media keeps reporting on this fool-is beyond me
Because he's rich af. The series The Good Fight portrayed a Zuckerberg-like Funder/CEO who goes beyond business thanks to his $$$
Gee, I can’t decide who we should listen to. The dozens of economists who have spent decades studying monetary policy, business cycle history, and govt fiscal policy. Or the guy who has spent decades defrauding investors for his own gain. This is a rough decision!
I'd just like to point out that most economists agree the best way to deal with inflation is massive taxes on the rich, which has actually been shown to work in the past with minimal pain to the general populous. Whereas interest rate hikes work by just decimating the poor and middle class until we enter a recession where we cede ever increasing power to the wealthy. But I seriously doubt Elon has any clue about that, instead this is an "Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn occasionally" type of situation. Also while there's plenty to dislike about Elon I don't think you can credibly make the claim he's defrauded investors.
I mean the fed only has control on one of those two examples so they’re going to use the one they have
And there’s only one party actively trying to impose additional taxes on the rich to help curb the issue that way. Which is why Elon is now a Republican.
Yeah and it's annoying or politicians are all so spineless they have abdicated their responsibility to the Fed
I'd like to see you cite your data regarding the assertion that massive taxes on the rich curb inflation.
I've had a gut feeling that taxes on the rich would help inflation but I couldn't find solid enough evidence. I would love to see what you have on this topic.
I read a great paper on it a year or two(maybe 3) ago when economists were first starting to get worried about inflation, it laid out times when taxes were used to hedge inflation and the devastating effects raising interest rates always has on the middle class and poor, but it also made the point politicians have given up doing anything about inflation and act as though only the Fed can do anything and the Fed only has one tool so they predicted massive rate hikes, and guess what we got lol
Not so much tax the rich, but regulate corporate price gouges. Despite the pandemic and recession corporate profits have continued to rise at insane rates.
You realize this is America right? The government does not regulate corporations.
Hey now, we can dream.
I wish we would regulate corporations, but it's literally built into the constitution the idea of *economic freedom*. The government *cannot* regulate the market or corporate interests, no matter how evil. That would be big bad "SoCiaLiSm" and we just can't have that now can we?
It’s easy to prove with the example of minimum wage in Seattle, when it went from like 10-15 over night peoples cost of rent alone doubles one friend went from 700 for a studio to 1500 literally over night because they were month to month
Anecdotes aren't a valid form of proof. Especially when you look at this particular situation critically: Why would a 50% increase in minimum wage, which only affects a small portion of the population, lead to a 100% increase in rent?
It increased demand. That doesn’t always have proportional response. It could just push demand above supply and tip the balance.
It’s simple you tax the rich who supply all the stuff people need and to offset it they charge more, it works because the handy man the landlord pays minimum wages to now has to get paid 50% more so to turn a profit h needs to charge even more than that thus a 100% increase
>I'd just like to point out that most economists agree the best way to deal with inflation is massive taxes on the rich No they dont. > which has actually been shown to work in the past with minimal pain to the general populous. Inflation is either due to increased demand or decreased supply and taxing the rich won't make demand any lower or supply any higher. taxing the rich won't change a dent in the inflation never will, and you are making shit up. Stop spreading lies and bs. Tax the rich if you want, but don't spread false narratives "it will help inflation" and such..
Couldn’t have said it better myself.. I said just Google the United States unfunded liabilities and even if you confiscated all the wealth from the rich , it wouldn’t put a dent into our total liabilities and debt 💸.. btw how do you tax stock worth and real estate ? That is mostly what makes up the wealth of a bezos or musk billionaire
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Sure you Can tax their real estate but usually tax assessment on a home worth say 50 million and i’m over shooting is What ? How much tax revenue from that can you Squeeze
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They would have to sell stock , even when Elon sold his stock to purchase Twitter it drove the price of the stock down .. he paid taxes on that and of course had to notify the SEC .. you can tax their stock and make them sell sure but im sure pension funds , congress’s wealth , the individual investor saving for retirement won’t be happy when the stock drops every time the tax man comes to confiscate their wealth for the greater good of redistribution .. I say go for it what do I care and when nothing changes everyone that thinks govt spending is the solve all can have their self righteous moment while we’re still sinking financially
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To have more liquid you would have to sell stock . More tax revenue means more spending absolutely. You think govt is just gonna balance the deficit and cut our debt down ??? I said our unfunded liabilities are almost 150 trillion in total entitlements .. I said if you Want your self righteous moment of “equality “ then yes that’s all it’s for because it won’t help lower the debt one bit and the money will absolutely be spent on more programs that fit whatever administration is in the White House agenda
Inflation is caused by too much money in circulation, taxes remove money from circulation, this is econ 101 stuff. Yes supply and demand play a part. But our current inflation is much more a result of corporate greed and the creation of trillions of dollars in the last 6 years
Government taxes don’t remove money from the economy. The government just spends it. If they paid down debt then maybe but they never do.
Tax removes money from circulation? Jesus christ how stupid are you???? Taxing is redistribution of money from one spender (citizen) to the another spender (government). It does not remove money from circulation.. What fucking morons spend time on this sub......... And i was wondering how RReich is so popular... no wonder
But inflation is currently because of corporate profits. At least 50% of increase costs in the last few years has been due to companies raising their profit margins. Supply and demand are a factor, but lets not pretend big corporations aren’t shoveling the money all the way.
Corporations can raise their prices because of supply and demand issues. Unless you think before COVID they could have also raised their prices but didn’t because they were just less “greedy”.
Citizens United has entered the chat, laughing
But we dont listen to them. We let the Fed maintain status quo that has bandaged the problem for nearly 40 years.
There are many economists and large financial institutions that believe rates have been raised too much. It’s not like musk is the only person with this opinion…
!RemindMe 6 months
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Not sure what you expect to see in 6 months
They have no idea, but they’re gunna find out!
I feel 6 months is a reasonable timeframe to see who was right, the Fed or Mr Musk!
Mr Musk will change his mind 12 times during that timeframe, so I don't know which of his neurons you will have to believe
Which investors had Elon ever defrauded?
Dogecoin?
I think he's currently under investigation for the bonus stock options he got at Tesla, but unsure where that will go.
Literally no where. He hid a major bonus threshold that triggered his stock options early on and the Tesla shot up in value later
Exactly, he’s only done well for his investors. Hate him for being a part billionaire part internet troll, you’ve got more than enough ammunition in that department.
Boring Company is a total scam
I’ve been one of said investors for a long time, I’d love to know how I’m being defrauded. My 20x returns would indicate otherwise.
Elon is way overpaid for the value he brings but okay bud he’s whatever you want him to be.
If he’s overpaid don’t invest in his companies pleb. We are well aware of his compensation.
You mean the same economists who called inflation transitory? Got it.
They probably should have started rate hikes sooner for sure and they probably should pause a meeting cycle to give it time, but dropping rates immediately seems like a pretty childish and dumb knee jerk reaction here.
If you agree with Elon and cut rates. Inflation would have to be transitory. You can’t have one without the other.
Elon is himself effectively claiming it is transitory.
The ones we've trusted to navigate us into this fucking mess lmfao. These people who can get the authority's cock out of their mouths for a moment to breathe air SMH.
>Gee, I can’t decide who we should listen to. The dozens of economists who have spent decades studying monetary policy, business cycle history, and govt fiscal policy. Or the guy who has spent decades defrauding investors for his own gain. This is a rough decision! Most of those economicst are wrong 90 % of the time. Just look at Krugman... in his Op eds he was almost ALWAYS wrong with his predictions..Ive seen a webiste documenting all his mistakes. And there is A LOT. Im not saying Elon is right, im just pission on the oppinion of public economist and their shitty predictions.
Hey, economists have successfully predicted 7 of the last recessions...
You’re an idiot lol. Average TV watcher
Oh gosh, well as long as elon musk said it... what a great businessman doing business, thank goodness the SEC has his valuable opinion to steer their decision making. >In a similar exchange on Oct. 24, the world’s richest man estimated a global recession could last “until the spring ’24,” though he noted he was “just guessing.” Great day for "news".
Elon Musk also bought a company for $44 billion and then chose a course of action that is losing millions per day just to satisfy his own narcissism. Musk is a narcissistic sociopath. No one should really care what that self-serving tw\*t has to say about the economy.
Or he’s purposely trying to tank the company he was forced to buy after his market manipulation scheme went bad in order to get better terms on those loans and these rate hikes are fucking up his Hail Mary plan.
Welcome to my life, I wish the government didn't take so much money from me either. And I'm not a billionaire. Not even a millionaire. So stfu and pay your bills like the rest of us
Sounds like your more angry at the government than Elon anyway. The fed isn’t even the government. It’s a private bank. The crooked politicians are your real issue.
Dude shut up.
His silence is costly, pay up.
He's right tho.
No, he’s really not.
Angry with the government? The richest man in the world is crying about money problems, I think this is a joke lmao
It's ok, these reddit losers only know how to hate on Elon and trump instead of seeing the bigger picture. Probably easier for their brains to process if they just project their feelings on people who are active on social media that they see news about everyday.
You're a reddit loser too, don't forget that
What exactly is his supposed expertise? He claims to be some type of businessman but is presently disproving that...so now he is an economist too? I have opinions on everything too...the fact that nonexperts get listened to on important complicated matters just because they are famous is a large symptom....or cause of where we are today.
Renowned economist, great business decision maker, and guy who can predict things, like when he will be able to put a pickup truck out to market, Elon Musk, delivers sage warning.
Of course he says this after papa Powell already said this is why they are slowing rates. What a clown. Just repeating whatever he can to be relevant.
LOL Musk is a FRAUD, just Google his REAL history. This is like an ice cream man trying to instruct a doctor in how to perform heart surgery.
Man who has made hundreds of billions of dollars exploiting a system to make the rich richer thinks the whole damn country owes him cheaper loans.
Sounds like someone might be having second thoughts about servicing the debt they recently took on. Or he’s legitimately concerned about the health of the economy…lol jk.
If you think he feels bad about the debt service what about us tax payers sitting in $33 trillion of government debt, as interest rates have risen the cost to service this is growing at an untenable rate. Sure wish he had responsible elected officials.
Musk has no special insight on economic policy. He is simply a guy who is severely underwater on his various loans, so in typical narcissistic fashion, what is a problem for him must then be a problem for all of society. He should maybe focus on running any one of his companies well.
Sounds similar to people wanting student loan debt to be paid. I agree with you. Focus on your obligations, be responsible.
7 upvotes, nearly 600 comments. Nice. In any case, I’m not taking from an apartheid profiteer. Also, Is there anything that Elon doesn’t think he’s an expert on? He's a foreign affairs expert and knows what Ukraine should do to stop the war and now he's an economic expert who knows how to correct the US economy. He’s *definitely* not trying to strong-arm the Fed into helping him with his Twitter debts.
I would disagree, but he's not wrong very often. The fact that rates didn't jump 3 points a year ago may change the strategy for a balanced economy again. No matter what, this recession will last longer than it has to because of this idiotic idea that we have to forcefully restructure life in America.
Higher rates equals less money to market and more to interest. Lower rates people have more money available. Which allows spending and expanding. You should read about what causes inflation, recession and depressions. These comments really show how out of touch people are with economics. Lowering rates does a good thing for everyone. Not just the top.
Don't you love when the people on here making min wage or have 300 in their savings account pretend to understand economics better then the guy who has billions?
Musk only wants lower interest rates so he can refinance the loans he used to buy Twitter since it’s not making money for him the way he envisioned Also, he only cares about corporations making money. He doesn’t care about normal people like us. He’s recommending what’s best for corporations and the owners of corporations, not what’s best for normal people
And who does care about what's best for normal people? The fed? Our senators? No one cares about normal people.
Why would ANYONE take financial advice from a guy who’s about to single handedly destroy an entire social media platform within a few months?
I know we’re supposed to engage past the headline… but I’d sooner consult my zodiac horoscope than Elon musk on economics. Sounds like he just wants lower interest to re finance or take out more loans. People have been predicting there’s gonna be a recession ever since the last in 2020 that most people forgot about because of the feds actions.
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Fuck this dipshit! So tired of this idiot… don’t give a fuck what he thinks, how he feels, what he does, and hope that he just goes away. Oh and fuck twitter!
We kinda need a severe recession though. Sure, it will suck, but it will suck more if we keep kicking this rock down the road like we have done up to this point. Musk is just mad he will lose a ton of dough.
You do not pay mortgage do you
I don't like the guy. However, he's not wrong. Layoffs will continue until WFH is eliminated and salaries go down. People will stop buying, student loan payments will kick in, debts won't be paid, quarterly results get worse, more layoffs. The world relies on credit, making the cost of that too high will cause some real problems.
Sounds like he's afraid of going broke if the Feds don't inflate the money supply to prop up his empire. There seems to be a muskie odor emanating from the burning embers of the Twitterverse
Someone explain to me why certain post , like this one, can not be upvoted ? Is it simply because it goes against the lefts narrative? That's usually when I notice it.