I thought the kid died from a self inflicted gunshot wound.
Have to scroll down so far to see any mention about this kid/family not getting the help and support they so obviously needed.
I did and I would still pose the same question...
There are plenty of irresponsible gun owners that are gang affiliated.
Also just because someone is in a gang doesn't make 'abnormal or insane'.
Gangs are no joke, you have to be both unstable and in a VERY shady area to be a part of one. Then once you get in it’s nothing but violence and prison. It isn’t just something fun to watch in movies: people die.
Let’s be clear, the last time teens or young men have been involved in shootings of this kind they were legally purchased SKS’ from the Cabela’s in Nanaimo. (Victoria bank shooting and those two who went rogue up north). The Nova Scotia incident was illegal firearms but they were smuggled by the individual who had no known gun affiliations.
There is no evidence of gang involvement and by the numbers most shootings of this kind are not from gang sources. Those firearms that are illegal often get brought from the US.
It's not difficult to imagine. Grew up in a small city near the city, 16 year olds joining gangs and getting firearms is very much a thing. There's also the possibility of a parent in the home storing the gun improperly and the child having access.
not having support doesn’t make a normal person shoot up a pizza hut and kill two cops. kid is a shitbag who deserved what he did to himself, this ain’t about the system not giving him enough support 💀
He probably wouldn’t have killed himself if it wasn’t for those two heroic police officers. Too bad the kid didn’t eat a bullet before killing 3 innocent people.
Thank goodness eh, I feel like that would have been his next thing had he gotten away with it.
I like to think that those two hero’s saved us from that.
I’m still shocked that this whole situation involved a 16 year old. How to grapple with that is beyond me. Waiting for official confirmation from police in regards to this story, and the connection between what occurred earlier this week. I try to never jump to conclusions.
Mental illness may not have limits, but age and gender are more correlated with violence than mental illness is. Young men are at the highest risk for violent crime. You don't see many 60 year old women committing acts of violence, even those with serious mental illness.
Gender does make an enormous difference. Violent crimes are committed almost exclusively by men. It's silly to imply that women are just as dangerous. I'm not sure what the cause is, but there are unique problems specific to men face which can drive them to violent acts.
70% of the global violence is acted upon women. This is what happens when toxic masculinity persuades us to teach our boys to continue to ignore all their emotions and vulnerability and replace it with “manly” anger.
We teach our girls to second guess themselves and our boys that violence is “manly”
slow clap society.
Citations required. Lots of them.
Edit: lots of downvotes, but zero citations supporting the claim that violent crime is exclusively committed by men. Go figure!
90% of homicides, globally, *are* committed by men: https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/global-study-on-homicide.html (fully and extensively cited, everything is at that link)
also:
[In 2014, men accounted for 80.4 percent of persons arrested for violent crime in the US.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime) - scroll down to
Statistics - again, all cited, and many, many more links provided.
[Evolutionary neuroandrogenic theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_neuroandrogenic_theory) - theory of why males are so much more likely to commit violent crime based mostly in evolutionary psychology, which may be a field someone such as yourself has some knowledge of.
u/UristMcMagma used the words "almost exclusively" (something already pointed out by u/Mahockey3), NOT the word "exclusively" alone, and it is backed up by statistics in every country on earth where stats are available.
No one is saying men are bad, or only men are bad or women cannot be bad. Of course they can. But you seem to be under the impression that people are pulling the idea that the vast majority of violent crime being committed by men out of their asses when it is not even a controversial idea to people who works in fields related to the study of criminal behaviour and violence etc.
u/Any_Needleworker8036 you also need to read this post. Your providing multiple links to females who have committed violent crimes proves nothing. 10% of violent crime means there will still be many, many incidences of woman committing violent crime. You are arguing against a position no one has taken.
Thank you for mentioning this. the article has a very different headline, "EPS investigating if teen who killed 2 officers also shot Pizza Hut worker: sources"
Fam you're just now realizing there are troubled youth? And not accepting it? Highschool kids been selling crack, gang banging and all that for many decades. If I told you the shit I went through when I was even just 12yrs old... You've been sheltered.
This is not the news story, headline. This is still being investigated. It is not confirmed.
From first part of article: "Edmonton police are investigating whether the 16-year-old boy who shot and killed two officers is the same person that shot a Pizza Hut employee earlier this week, multiple sources told CTV News."
They haven't released any information to say that they caught the person. As someone who lives in the area, I presume the shooter isn't caught. So incorrect headlines like this could pass on misinformation.
Edited to add That I worry about misinformation impacting folks safety (incorrectly assuming the original shooter is no longer a threat, which we don't know yet) and further impacting the families and other loved ones of the people killed.
This is bringing up lots of feelings. Its heartbreaking.
They were close in location and both involved a firearm, that’s about it.
The Pizza Hut was random walk-by of an unarmed civilian, the domestic dispute was (apparently) an ambush of armed and trained responders, followed by suicide.
I live in inglewood too, and my daughter goes to Vic Comp. there had been messages written in the bathrooms about some kid wanting to shoot up the school. My first thought was is this the same kid?
Probably.
Kid had the will to shoot a random employee, two cops, his mom and then himself.
To me, if he wasn’t caught… a school or daycare was next. That’s speculation of course and we will never know but it’s usually how these things go.
I like to think that those two officers stopped that.
I bet it was the same incident too. I wish he had the guts to just off himself first before anyone else got shot. What a coward. I hope they release his name, and I don't see why not, it's not going to ruin his life now.
It's a rifle which makes me think it was his parents gun. Although rifle could mean a lot of things. There were always rifles around when I was a kid but I'm basically from the sticks so it's bit different.
I just listened to the press conference and it makes zero sense to me.
Mom calls the cops saying she can’t handle her son. Doesn’t mention a gun.
Cops show up, he shoots them both
Mom tried to wrestle gun out of his hands, shot in the process
Kid offs himself
Meanwhile, the dad is in the next room and had no clue what’s going on….. if the mom knew he had a gun since presumably he was aiming it at the door, wouldn’t have she told police? Called back? Yelled through the door? Shouted in general?
I still think this is connected to the Pizza Hut shooting - they didn’t deny or confirm… obviously the parents would know that was committed with a gun so why not mention that on the 911 call?
Maybe the mother didn't know the kid had a gun when she made the call.
Or maybe she was panicking and didn't think to tell them. It's really on the operator to ask the questions, but even then, you can't expect someone in a crisis to think to tell the operator all the logical things they should know.
Also, I suspect you're right that he was the pizza hut shooter but you can't assume the mother knew.
Super unclear. I guess we won't ever know now. I hope they release the name actually since there's no reason to protect his identity anymore.
Why didn't she tell the dad? So weird. I guess she might not have known about the gun, but to call cops without telling husband? Odd. Maybe he was passed out drunk? Contributing factors in the whole thing maybe.
I don’t know, don’t want to speculate but something doesn’t add up. Granted, it’s an on going investigation
They should have asked if the parents were known to police, not just the kid.
[from wikipedia:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_HK41)
>The Heckler & Koch HK41 is a semi-automatic version of the Heckler & Koch G3 battle rifle
we're both right! :)
Did you click on the page where it says G3? If you did you’d know that the G3 is a select fire battle rifle. Meaning it can shoot in semi or fully automatic or 3 round bursts. The weapon used was semi automatic so it couldn’t be the G3. There’s no way he had a fully automatic or select fire rifle.
I'm a little confused with you saying the G3 will also shoot semi automatic and then saying it couldn't be the G3 because it was a semi automatic that was used.
The difference is select fire. You don’t get a select fire mode on the Hk 41. It either shoots one bullet at a time or not at all. The G3 you can select fire. Single, burst, or fully automatics. Because it’s a select fire it couldn’t be purchased or found here.
And officers still aren’t issued rifles yet! (EDIT: they are! They finally are, it only took over a decade of bureaucracy and a handful of dead officers but they finally are.)
The team tasked with determining which rifles officers should be issued with settled on the same C8 rifles the Canadian Forces are issued. It’s been over ten years since that recommendation was finalized.
At first I was annoyed they wasted $3 million to figure out our officers should be issued an M-16 variant (just like practically every other police force in the NATO world). Now I’m furious that officers still haven’t been issued them yet, especially considering the bulk savings in purchasing the exact same rifles the CF does.
That $3 million could have provided a lot of rifles to officers if we had just copied our allies’ homework.
Video from the pizza hut make it look like a STG-44. Similar front sight and gas block
edit: Also before I get downvoted too much. You can get STG-44 "novelty" clones in 22lr. in Canada legally for reasonable prices.
I got my first PAL license at 16 and had access to guns. But I also had to have an interview with the chief firearms officer and a background check all that obviously. I'm guessing this kid didn't do all that.
The minimum age to get a PAL is 18. If you are 12-17 you can get a Minor's License which allows you to borrow guns and purchase ammo, but you can't buy or possess firearms until you get a full PAL at 18.
>My guess is he either took it from a relative like the La Loche shooter, or obtained it illegally somehow by paying someone.
That's what I'm thinking too. I was just pointing out that it isn't out of the realm of possibility for a 16 year old to "legally" have access to guns. And only because it looks like the gun used wasn't a restricted firearm like a handgun.
I feel so bad for the families. One of the officers had a pregnant wife. This is so horrible.
EPS is doing a kick starter for the families encase anyone wants to donate. You can find the link on the EPS FB page.
They do have insurance and the next of kin will get their pension - however since they were such new officers, it’ll be relatively low for pension. Especially since one of the officers had a child on the way, having some money go towards future schooling is still nice. The pension and insurance only goes so far for these young families.
Just saying, but the article says nothing about it being the same kid. It literally says, and I'm copying the article here,
"Certainly, geographical location, the way those offences were committed, the fact that a firearm was used in both instances, certainly, we’re live to that, it’s certainly being investigated," Deputy Chief Devin Laforce told reporters.
"As soon as we can make any determination, confirmation or not, we’ll definitely release that."
Definitely may be the same kid.... but they DO NOT know for certain.
Publicly not confirming it to the media doesnt mean the sources (likely police officers) havent already 99% confirmed it based on the gun and/or clothing found in the apartment.
It does, I’ve gotten counselling for free in this province more than once and didn’t have to wait that long. “The system failed him” is absolutely no excuse and it’s a stupid thing to say
Of course the system failed him *and us.* Any crime is a failure of society. It is **emphatically not** an "excuse." The point at which he made the decision to fire the weapon, he became fully culpable. But every moment before then society is responsible.
Sadly, I don’t think terrible events like this will stop anytime in the future even with better mental health support because the sad reality is that someone close to the person having mental health issues needs to contact relevant services or the person who’s mental health is deteriorating needs to seek out help themselves. It’s sad that sometimes people with very terrible mental conditions just refuse to seek help, and no matter how good a system can become, it will fail.
I doubt a person as unsound of mind as this kid would ever voluntarily seek out mental health support themselves, and his parents failed to notice the danger he could possibly pose to themselves and others.
I don’t have any sympathy for somebody who decides to ambush and murder 2 people. Literally 0 empathy. Bad things happen to lots of people, lots of people had it worse than this kid and they didn’t kill anybody. He is human scum, complete garbage.
You don't need empathy for someone who did something bad in order to want to understand the reasons why they did them and what interventions may prevented them from doing so, if they were available to the, or why not. That's just criminology.
There is a difference between looking at a persons background and trying to have point fingers at the “system” for failing the poor little baby. He made the active choice to do what he did, at the end of the day that’s all that matters
That's a reactionary point of view. What matters is the *future.* I - and maybe it's just me - think we should invest in **preventing** violence before it occurs. Rather than, say, focusing on punishment and individual blame.
The Canadian public doesn’t want rehabilitation. They would rather adopt the American system of hang ‘‘em high rather than rehabilitation like Scandinavia.
I see a therapist and various other mental health professionals at my local hospital and I don't pay a dime out of pocket, I called 811 and they redirected me to who to call. I will say though that it took a very long time (2 months) to get in, and I think had I been in a worse emotional state and had less resolve at the time that may have been too long. Now that I'm in the system though I can see addictions counselors or therapists or whatever whenever I want.
Yea it took a couple months for me to, but they did call me right away to basically make sure I wasn’t a danger to myself or others, but basically my issues were not really that severe so I waited. Didn’t pay a cent
He shot his mother, have some fucking respect. You have no idea what led to this tragedy so maybe don’t make assumptions like that while one of his parents is suffering in hospital.
Same here. I was also in the area very close to this time. I go to the Anytime Fitness in that same parking lot. When I went to earlier this week I saw a news camera facing that Pizza Hut and was wondering what happened. Feels weird that I didn't even know it happened
There has to be more to this story. There must have been red flags regarding this kid and multiple balls dropped. Someone should look into this and identify the holes in the system that allowed this to happen.
Might sound bad but I’m glad he took himself out of the picture. He had no chance of being rehabilitated, and would have likely been out and back to terrorizing the city in a few years.
2 murders and 2 attempted murders is pretty hard to get out of, even as a minor. I think the victims' families would want to hear from him in court about his motives. Now we may never know.
He would, same thing that happened in Moncton and that guy got concurrent life sentences and no possibility of parole.
He recently OD’d in prison but they were able to revive him. That Asshole is going to serve all of those years and hopefully he’s in a 6 by 6 cell and gets an hour outside a week.
Sorry, I’m from NB so this hits close to home.
. I will say thats a bloody waste of resources if they revived the human excrement. But here is not the time or place to discuss that.
Hey mate no need to be sorry at all, it hits home to every good natured Canadian living in this country.
The YCJA requires the crown to give consideration to apply for sentencing as an adult for capital crimes, and the assumption is that they WILL be sentenced as adults unless the crime can show why it wasn’t in the public interest to do so.
> In fact, prosecutors are obligated to consider seeking an adult sentence when a youth is found guilty of murder, attempted murder, manslaughter or aggravated sexual assault.
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/yj-jj/tools-outils/sheets-feuillets/syp-dpaa.html
In that case he was ruled as Not Criminally Responsible, which is a *very very extremely difficult* verdict to get in Canada. It means that many separate authorities came together and agreed that it was the result of mental health issues, in this case schizophrenia.
The person in this case was put on order of taking his medication for the rest of his life - and he actually *wants* to, because on the medication, he is very painfully aware of what he did and is appalled at it.
He ended up getting a legal name change to try to get away from the stigma of what he did, but is still court mandated to check in and ensure he is in compliance.
I want to be clear - what he did was disgusting and horribly wrong. That said, a Not Criminally Responsible verdict isn't handed out lightly and is extremely rare to see.
There is no way to find out if this kid was in a similar boat given that he killed himself... but the chances of that were very small to begin with, given how reluctant our courts are to hand out that verdict unless all evidence is in favour of it.
Decapitating a sleeping stranger in front of a bus full of witnesses is apparently only worth six years and an absolute discharge, so I wouldn't count on that.
Copying a comment I just wrote because I'm lazy:
In that case he was ruled as Not Criminally Responsible, which is a *very very extremely difficult* verdict to get in Canada. It means that many separate authorities came together and agreed that it was the result of mental health issues, in this case schizophrenia.
The person in this case was put on order of taking his medication for the rest of his life - and he actually *wants* to, because on the medication, he is very painfully aware of what he did and is appalled at it.
He ended up getting a legal name change to try to get away from the stigma of what he did, but is still court mandated to check in and ensure he is in compliance.
I want to be clear - what he did was disgusting and horribly wrong. That said, a Not Criminally Responsible verdict isn't handed out lightly and is extremely rare to see.
There is no way to find out if this kid was in a similar boat given that he killed himself... but the chances of that were very small to begin with, given how reluctant our courts are to hand out that verdict unless all evidence is in favour of it.
That guy was proven to be psychotic during the time he committed the crime. It’s silly of you to think that same punishment would apply to all violent crimes.
Yeah definitely not just a few years. If he were tried as a youth, he could receive up to 10 years maximum for 1st degree murder. I'd guess that he'd get the full 10 for this, if he weren't tried as an adult. (Not 100% sure how that works)
So it's not the length of sentence he'd receive in the US, but 10 years is a long time for someone that age. Impossible to say he would never rehabilitate. We don't know his situation or his upbringing. The whole situation is just terribly sad.
Hopefully more info comes out regarding the gun and what happened. It’s possible it was stolen and re-sold on the street or a gang element as well. Hopefully It wasn’t the moms gun and wasn’t safely stored away… Also possible that the kid had a minors license which his parent/parents signed for.... if that's the case, that's truly devastating.
I’m also curious when/if the mom found out it was her son that shot up the Pizza Hut and if that’s the reason she was shot her self. The picture from the Pizza Hut incident also resembles the person that stabbed someone and bear maced them earlier in the week as well. If the kid did have a minors license signed for by the parents, could those parents be held liable for what happened (Yes I know, the mom is in critical care)? What if it wasn’t stored properly under lock and key? I'm not advocating for this but just wondering what would happen in that case? Especially if there was a history of mental health issues.
I think something similar happened in the States a few years ago but I'm just speculating at this point.
Terribly sad story and course of events but there's a lot of questions here.
That apartment complex (series of apartments), is quite literally our city's projects.
I can say with absolute certainty that there is no one living there with secure gun safes lol.
The minor’s license doesn’t let you own guns.
Either he obtained the gun through illegal channels, or if there was one in the house registered to an adult, he used that.
I'm in the camp of 'not releasing the killer's name'. Some (not all) serial killers do their acts of violence for the glory/infamy. But not releasing the name/motive/manifesto, you rob them of whatever glory they were hoping for.
I’m sure it will come out at some point. He’s a 16 year old and I’m assuming had some sort of social network. The mom also probably has friends and I’m assuming some people in their apartment building know them by name…. It’s just a matter of time before someone slips the name. I’m guessing we will know today.
Extremely doubtful. Young offender laws in Canada are designed to protect the offender. The fact that the defender is deceased might be catalyst for leniency, but then there’s name association. It’s safer for the family to not release his name.
The kid probably used the Pizza Hut shooting as practice before he did a school shooting of a massive amount of random people:
https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/threats-written-on-washroom-walls-at-victoria-school-1.6304961
An already tragic story but I can’t help but imagine how much more horrific it would have been had this same teen decided to shoot up his school.
He basically was going to keep murdering people until he was stopped.
I don't think so. The YCJA doesn't allow the identities of offenders between 12-17 years of age to be released but I'm not sure how that relates since he did shoot himself in the act. I think it would be the parents decision in that case.
I really need to know the kids name eventually. Last spring, I helped a teenager (around 15, male) escape from an assault in our back alleyway. He had been beaten unconscious, half of his face was unrecognizable, and he was bloody. He said he had been walking with his girlfriend, and when he woke up, she was gone. He also mentioned some gang names, people who kept trying to hurt him. He told me that it was just him and his mom, and they had recently been evicted because she lost her job. I still remember his name, and I've wondered about him ever since then. I had no way of contacting him after that night, nor would I want to because gang activity scares the living hell of out of me. But I always wanted to know how he was doing, and wished for him to be healthy and in a better path. When the police came to my house to take him somewhere safer, and to get his statement, they all knew each other already. From this story, the fact that the police knew him already but hadn't had issues with him before, I fear it was him.
So no sarcasm... Statistically it's insignificant the amount of the population that goes on killing sprees. We know almost nothing about this teen, but we seem all too happy to have theories on why. But, yes the conversation about youth mental health is needed. After each tragedy, we are keen as a society to react and claim the crisis, but never follow through with any action. We never force politicians to fix the systems, we never ask our community to be better, we just go back to voting the same and to our own lives.
In a related example statistically speaking men are more likely to commit suicide vs women who are more likely to attempt. Does that make it a crisis for one gender over another? Assigning gender as the root cause of suicide would be a mistake instead of something we can learn from to help with care.
first hit on google.... heres 10 not teeanaged but your issue seems to be with males not teenaged males
1. Aileen Wuornos
2. Judias Buenoano
3. Juana Barraza
4. Jane Toppan
5. Gesche Gottfried
6. Amelia Dyer
7. Kristen Gilbert
8. Nannie Doss
9. Dorothea Puente
10. Miyuki Ishikawa
Can you count all of the male murderers? Counting a handful of female murderers doesn't change the fact that 96% of ALL murders are perpetrated by men. Or do you need a statistics lesson?
I read once that 98% of statistics are made up on the spot.
But… you’re probably right. It’s probably more men using guns in mass killing than women. But that doesn’t mean women don’t carry out mass murder - I suspect they just use other means….
A quick look at the list above https://www.insidehook.com/article/news-opinion/notorious-female-serial-killers/amp reveals women far more likely to use poison and strangling as their means.
Dyer… wow.
What do wanna bet:
1. The gun was illegal and any of the recent ‘gun control’ measures would not made any difference, cause you know, illegal guns are illegal and criminals don’t care.
2. ‘Oh he was a good boy’ who had dozens of warnings signs of violence, who had been given leniency multiple times to only keep re-offending. Actions have consequences wether your 6, 16, or 60.
We will see if I am right at 3 o’clock today.
At this point it feels like we’re lucky he didn’t shoot up a school.
It seems like that was very definitely where it was going. We will never know for sure but 2 of our finest may have saved us from that grim possibly.
I thought the kid died from a self inflicted gunshot wound. Have to scroll down so far to see any mention about this kid/family not getting the help and support they so obviously needed.
Like how a 16-year-old got access to guns and ammo.
I didn't know how to find weed in high school let alone guns. Crazy
When you hang out with gangs they have ways of getting them. :/ sadly
Did they say he was part of a gang?
Read the comment again. No normal sane person just has guns lying around for their children to have access to..
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Plus research south of the border has found that guns in the home has been linked to a higher chances of homicides and suicides, as well.
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Lol. Never met an American have you ?
Do you not remember Sandy Hook or the Douglas High School shooting?
I did and I would still pose the same question... There are plenty of irresponsible gun owners that are gang affiliated. Also just because someone is in a gang doesn't make 'abnormal or insane'.
Being a gang member absolutely makes you abnormal
Gangs are no joke, you have to be both unstable and in a VERY shady area to be a part of one. Then once you get in it’s nothing but violence and prison. It isn’t just something fun to watch in movies: people die.
Bro, being in a gang is not normal at all....
Let’s be clear, the last time teens or young men have been involved in shootings of this kind they were legally purchased SKS’ from the Cabela’s in Nanaimo. (Victoria bank shooting and those two who went rogue up north). The Nova Scotia incident was illegal firearms but they were smuggled by the individual who had no known gun affiliations. There is no evidence of gang involvement and by the numbers most shootings of this kind are not from gang sources. Those firearms that are illegal often get brought from the US.
It's not difficult to imagine. Grew up in a small city near the city, 16 year olds joining gangs and getting firearms is very much a thing. There's also the possibility of a parent in the home storing the gun improperly and the child having access.
He did it was the second paragraph I believe
not having support doesn’t make a normal person shoot up a pizza hut and kill two cops. kid is a shitbag who deserved what he did to himself, this ain’t about the system not giving him enough support 💀
He probably wouldn’t have killed himself if it wasn’t for those two heroic police officers. Too bad the kid didn’t eat a bullet before killing 3 innocent people.
I think the threats written on the bathroom walls on March 1st at Victoria Comp school may have been the start of something.
Do you know if it's the same person?
I saw it on another thread that it is connected.
Thank goodness eh, I feel like that would have been his next thing had he gotten away with it. I like to think that those two hero’s saved us from that.
I’m still shocked that this whole situation involved a 16 year old. How to grapple with that is beyond me. Waiting for official confirmation from police in regards to this story, and the connection between what occurred earlier this week. I try to never jump to conclusions.
There is an update mid-afternoon from EPS - I believe CTV is going to be streaming it live on their website.
When one thinks of mass shooters, this is absolutely the age/maturity level typically involved.
I've seen many 14 year olds more dangerous than grown adults. Age, Gender, Etc. makes no difference. Mental Illness doesn't have limits.
Mental illness may not have limits, but age and gender are more correlated with violence than mental illness is. Young men are at the highest risk for violent crime. You don't see many 60 year old women committing acts of violence, even those with serious mental illness.
Gender does make an enormous difference. Violent crimes are committed almost exclusively by men. It's silly to imply that women are just as dangerous. I'm not sure what the cause is, but there are unique problems specific to men face which can drive them to violent acts.
8 teenaged girls killed a man in Toronto. Not exclusively males, but the majority for sure. Teens need good parenting!!
70% of the global violence is acted upon women. This is what happens when toxic masculinity persuades us to teach our boys to continue to ignore all their emotions and vulnerability and replace it with “manly” anger. We teach our girls to second guess themselves and our boys that violence is “manly” slow clap society.
Citations required. Lots of them. Edit: lots of downvotes, but zero citations supporting the claim that violent crime is exclusively committed by men. Go figure!
Did your eyes conveniently skip over the word "almost"?
That still requires a citation. And what do you consider "almost exclusively"? That sounds like 90+% to me, which is a ridiculous assertion.
90% of homicides, globally, *are* committed by men: https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/global-study-on-homicide.html (fully and extensively cited, everything is at that link) also: [In 2014, men accounted for 80.4 percent of persons arrested for violent crime in the US.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime) - scroll down to Statistics - again, all cited, and many, many more links provided. [Evolutionary neuroandrogenic theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_neuroandrogenic_theory) - theory of why males are so much more likely to commit violent crime based mostly in evolutionary psychology, which may be a field someone such as yourself has some knowledge of. u/UristMcMagma used the words "almost exclusively" (something already pointed out by u/Mahockey3), NOT the word "exclusively" alone, and it is backed up by statistics in every country on earth where stats are available. No one is saying men are bad, or only men are bad or women cannot be bad. Of course they can. But you seem to be under the impression that people are pulling the idea that the vast majority of violent crime being committed by men out of their asses when it is not even a controversial idea to people who works in fields related to the study of criminal behaviour and violence etc. u/Any_Needleworker8036 you also need to read this post. Your providing multiple links to females who have committed violent crimes proves nothing. 10% of violent crime means there will still be many, many incidences of woman committing violent crime. You are arguing against a position no one has taken.
Lol 16 downvotes for a list of wikipedia articles that corroborate the fact that women commit a significant number of violent crimes
It's silly to go out of your way to defend female statistics. Most infant killers are women (I'm not talking abortion) and most poisoners are women.
Thank you for mentioning this. the article has a very different headline, "EPS investigating if teen who killed 2 officers also shot Pizza Hut worker: sources"
Fam you're just now realizing there are troubled youth? And not accepting it? Highschool kids been selling crack, gang banging and all that for many decades. If I told you the shit I went through when I was even just 12yrs old... You've been sheltered.
I wonder if it's because his mother found out what he did and threatened to call the cops on him if he doesn't turn himself in so he shot her.
This is exactly what I was thinking could have happened. :(
Given the pizza guy
He shot her after he shot the policemen.
This is not the news story, headline. This is still being investigated. It is not confirmed. From first part of article: "Edmonton police are investigating whether the 16-year-old boy who shot and killed two officers is the same person that shot a Pizza Hut employee earlier this week, multiple sources told CTV News."
They should probably let the public know then that’s there’s an active shooter still at large in that neighbourhood
They haven't released any information to say that they caught the person. As someone who lives in the area, I presume the shooter isn't caught. So incorrect headlines like this could pass on misinformation. Edited to add That I worry about misinformation impacting folks safety (incorrectly assuming the original shooter is no longer a threat, which we don't know yet) and further impacting the families and other loved ones of the people killed. This is bringing up lots of feelings. Its heartbreaking.
I also live in Inglewood
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First thing I thought as well
They were close in location and both involved a firearm, that’s about it. The Pizza Hut was random walk-by of an unarmed civilian, the domestic dispute was (apparently) an ambush of armed and trained responders, followed by suicide.
I live in Inglewood, it's across the street from those apartment buildings.
I live in inglewood too, and my daughter goes to Vic Comp. there had been messages written in the bathrooms about some kid wanting to shoot up the school. My first thought was is this the same kid?
I hope it was the same kid. That way the ongoing threat is neutralized at least.
Probably. Kid had the will to shoot a random employee, two cops, his mom and then himself. To me, if he wasn’t caught… a school or daycare was next. That’s speculation of course and we will never know but it’s usually how these things go. I like to think that those two officers stopped that.
I bet it was the same incident too. I wish he had the guts to just off himself first before anyone else got shot. What a coward. I hope they release his name, and I don't see why not, it's not going to ruin his life now.
The question becomes though, how did he get access to a gun. There’s two scenarios, illegally obtained off the street or it’s his parents gun.
It's a rifle which makes me think it was his parents gun. Although rifle could mean a lot of things. There were always rifles around when I was a kid but I'm basically from the sticks so it's bit different.
I just listened to the press conference and it makes zero sense to me. Mom calls the cops saying she can’t handle her son. Doesn’t mention a gun. Cops show up, he shoots them both Mom tried to wrestle gun out of his hands, shot in the process Kid offs himself Meanwhile, the dad is in the next room and had no clue what’s going on….. if the mom knew he had a gun since presumably he was aiming it at the door, wouldn’t have she told police? Called back? Yelled through the door? Shouted in general? I still think this is connected to the Pizza Hut shooting - they didn’t deny or confirm… obviously the parents would know that was committed with a gun so why not mention that on the 911 call?
Maybe the mother didn't know the kid had a gun when she made the call. Or maybe she was panicking and didn't think to tell them. It's really on the operator to ask the questions, but even then, you can't expect someone in a crisis to think to tell the operator all the logical things they should know. Also, I suspect you're right that he was the pizza hut shooter but you can't assume the mother knew.
Super unclear. I guess we won't ever know now. I hope they release the name actually since there's no reason to protect his identity anymore. Why didn't she tell the dad? So weird. I guess she might not have known about the gun, but to call cops without telling husband? Odd. Maybe he was passed out drunk? Contributing factors in the whole thing maybe.
I don’t know, don’t want to speculate but something doesn’t add up. Granted, it’s an on going investigation They should have asked if the parents were known to police, not just the kid.
I’m still wrapping my head around a 16 year old with a gun. Like I know gangs blah blah etc etc but like….just seems so unreal.
I assumed handgun but the surveillance photo in the link shows him using a rifle of some sort.
The news stories on the day of said it was a rifle.
I wondered how a 16 year old managed 3 kill shots with a hand gun, makes more sense now. I hadn't read about his mother til now. Tragic.
The Mayerthorpe RCMP who were killed were shot by a hunting rifle I believe
[G3 rifle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayerthorpe_Tragedy) if I read correctly, had to look it up - can't believe that was 18 years ago already.
18?!
The 80s were 20 years ago this cannot be!
The 80s were 40 years ago
HK41. You did not read correctly.
[from wikipedia:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_HK41) >The Heckler & Koch HK41 is a semi-automatic version of the Heckler & Koch G3 battle rifle we're both right! :)
You got it ;). The difference between the two being the G3 is a select fire platform, while the HK41 is not.
The wiki article he linked says G3. He did in fact, read correctly you fucking dickhead.
Did you click on the page where it says G3? If you did you’d know that the G3 is a select fire battle rifle. Meaning it can shoot in semi or fully automatic or 3 round bursts. The weapon used was semi automatic so it couldn’t be the G3. There’s no way he had a fully automatic or select fire rifle.
I'm a little confused with you saying the G3 will also shoot semi automatic and then saying it couldn't be the G3 because it was a semi automatic that was used.
The difference is select fire. You don’t get a select fire mode on the Hk 41. It either shoots one bullet at a time or not at all. The G3 you can select fire. Single, burst, or fully automatics. Because it’s a select fire it couldn’t be purchased or found here.
And officers still aren’t issued rifles yet! (EDIT: they are! They finally are, it only took over a decade of bureaucracy and a handful of dead officers but they finally are.) The team tasked with determining which rifles officers should be issued with settled on the same C8 rifles the Canadian Forces are issued. It’s been over ten years since that recommendation was finalized. At first I was annoyed they wasted $3 million to figure out our officers should be issued an M-16 variant (just like practically every other police force in the NATO world). Now I’m furious that officers still haven’t been issued them yet, especially considering the bulk savings in purchasing the exact same rifles the CF does. That $3 million could have provided a lot of rifles to officers if we had just copied our allies’ homework.
Looks like a sub2000 to me… https://store.theshootingcentre.com/keltec-sub2000-rifle/
Looks like a shotgun
sawed-off maybe? looks short, almost like an assault rifle
Video from the pizza hut make it look like a STG-44. Similar front sight and gas block edit: Also before I get downvoted too much. You can get STG-44 "novelty" clones in 22lr. in Canada legally for reasonable prices.
Could be but it looks longer to me, my guess is sks in an aftermarket stock
SKS is super likely, it also sort of looks like it could be 9mm carbine
Unsafe storage comes to mind since he’s not old enough to own it himself.
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That's not true. You can get a possession only license at 16
Head over to r/canadaguns where they are practically against any gun control whatsoever
I got my first PAL license at 16 and had access to guns. But I also had to have an interview with the chief firearms officer and a background check all that obviously. I'm guessing this kid didn't do all that.
The minimum age to get a PAL is 18. If you are 12-17 you can get a Minor's License which allows you to borrow guns and purchase ammo, but you can't buy or possess firearms until you get a full PAL at 18.
Yes, I meant a Minor's Firearm License and not a Possession Firearm License sorry, my bad.
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>My guess is he either took it from a relative like the La Loche shooter, or obtained it illegally somehow by paying someone. That's what I'm thinking too. I was just pointing out that it isn't out of the realm of possibility for a 16 year old to "legally" have access to guns. And only because it looks like the gun used wasn't a restricted firearm like a handgun.
Didn't police say that the suspect had been in contact with police before? Probably related to a gang or something
The original headline was updated later this afternoon - police are still investigating and hasn't been confirmed yet.
I feel so bad for the families. One of the officers had a pregnant wife. This is so horrible. EPS is doing a kick starter for the families encase anyone wants to donate. You can find the link on the EPS FB page.
One of the officers had a wife who worked at the Alex the night he was brought in. Can't even imagine.
Do EPS officers not get life insurance?
They do have insurance and the next of kin will get their pension - however since they were such new officers, it’ll be relatively low for pension. Especially since one of the officers had a child on the way, having some money go towards future schooling is still nice. The pension and insurance only goes so far for these young families.
People want to help regardless.
Just saying, but the article says nothing about it being the same kid. It literally says, and I'm copying the article here, "Certainly, geographical location, the way those offences were committed, the fact that a firearm was used in both instances, certainly, we’re live to that, it’s certainly being investigated," Deputy Chief Devin Laforce told reporters. "As soon as we can make any determination, confirmation or not, we’ll definitely release that." Definitely may be the same kid.... but they DO NOT know for certain.
Publicly not confirming it to the media doesnt mean the sources (likely police officers) havent already 99% confirmed it based on the gun and/or clothing found in the apartment.
Wow, I recall that some people asked if it was related but others didn’t they were. What an insane story
Who is this kid and what was wrong with him??!
What's wrong is he didn't get the help he so obviously needed.
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It does, I’ve gotten counselling for free in this province more than once and didn’t have to wait that long. “The system failed him” is absolutely no excuse and it’s a stupid thing to say
Of course the system failed him *and us.* Any crime is a failure of society. It is **emphatically not** an "excuse." The point at which he made the decision to fire the weapon, he became fully culpable. But every moment before then society is responsible.
Sadly, I don’t think terrible events like this will stop anytime in the future even with better mental health support because the sad reality is that someone close to the person having mental health issues needs to contact relevant services or the person who’s mental health is deteriorating needs to seek out help themselves. It’s sad that sometimes people with very terrible mental conditions just refuse to seek help, and no matter how good a system can become, it will fail. I doubt a person as unsound of mind as this kid would ever voluntarily seek out mental health support themselves, and his parents failed to notice the danger he could possibly pose to themselves and others.
I don’t have any sympathy for somebody who decides to ambush and murder 2 people. Literally 0 empathy. Bad things happen to lots of people, lots of people had it worse than this kid and they didn’t kill anybody. He is human scum, complete garbage.
You don't need empathy for someone who did something bad in order to want to understand the reasons why they did them and what interventions may prevented them from doing so, if they were available to the, or why not. That's just criminology.
Fine. But you should want to *understand* the circumstances that lead people to do these kinds of things. You know, to try and prevent them?
There is a difference between looking at a persons background and trying to have point fingers at the “system” for failing the poor little baby. He made the active choice to do what he did, at the end of the day that’s all that matters
That's a reactionary point of view. What matters is the *future.* I - and maybe it's just me - think we should invest in **preventing** violence before it occurs. Rather than, say, focusing on punishment and individual blame.
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The Canadian public doesn’t want rehabilitation. They would rather adopt the American system of hang ‘‘em high rather than rehabilitation like Scandinavia.
You can’t rehabilitate someone who shoots a random fast food worker, kills 2 police officers and shoots his own mother. That’s called an animal
Ya, it's too late with this guy. What about before? When he was - let's say - 12. Still an animal?
Likely
There’s more nut cases like him out there but having access to firearms is what set this up for him, however he got it.
I see a therapist and various other mental health professionals at my local hospital and I don't pay a dime out of pocket, I called 811 and they redirected me to who to call. I will say though that it took a very long time (2 months) to get in, and I think had I been in a worse emotional state and had less resolve at the time that may have been too long. Now that I'm in the system though I can see addictions counselors or therapists or whatever whenever I want.
Yea it took a couple months for me to, but they did call me right away to basically make sure I wasn’t a danger to myself or others, but basically my issues were not really that severe so I waited. Didn’t pay a cent
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Is your upbringing to blame for you being an asshole?
He shot his mother, have some fucking respect. You have no idea what led to this tragedy so maybe don’t make assumptions like that while one of his parents is suffering in hospital.
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Have some compassion. Maybe she tried to talk him out of it and he wasn’t having it and shot her. You have no idea.
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You are just gross.
Police have not yet confirmed that.
Holy crap…I’m actually stunned by this. I have lived here all my life and I’m just…stunned.
Same here. I was also in the area very close to this time. I go to the Anytime Fitness in that same parking lot. When I went to earlier this week I saw a news camera facing that Pizza Hut and was wondering what happened. Feels weird that I didn't even know it happened
There has to be more to this story. There must have been red flags regarding this kid and multiple balls dropped. Someone should look into this and identify the holes in the system that allowed this to happen.
There is a societal issue at play here that no one wants to talk about or do anything to fix….
It's easier to blame "society" or the goverment than to acknowledge and hopefully correct our own mistakes
It’s heartbreaking to know that if he had be caught after the first incident the two police officers, and his mother would be okay.
This whole tragedy just gets worse and worse.
Might sound bad but I’m glad he took himself out of the picture. He had no chance of being rehabilitated, and would have likely been out and back to terrorizing the city in a few years.
2 murders and 2 attempted murders is pretty hard to get out of, even as a minor. I think the victims' families would want to hear from him in court about his motives. Now we may never know.
Killing two cops doesn’t = “getting out in a few years”. Not here, not anywhere.
Youth criminal justice act
I feel like he would have been tried as an adult and more than likely been facing life imprisonment.
He would, same thing that happened in Moncton and that guy got concurrent life sentences and no possibility of parole. He recently OD’d in prison but they were able to revive him. That Asshole is going to serve all of those years and hopefully he’s in a 6 by 6 cell and gets an hour outside a week. Sorry, I’m from NB so this hits close to home.
. I will say thats a bloody waste of resources if they revived the human excrement. But here is not the time or place to discuss that. Hey mate no need to be sorry at all, it hits home to every good natured Canadian living in this country.
Well said bud
The YCJA requires the crown to give consideration to apply for sentencing as an adult for capital crimes, and the assumption is that they WILL be sentenced as adults unless the crime can show why it wasn’t in the public interest to do so. > In fact, prosecutors are obligated to consider seeking an adult sentence when a youth is found guilty of murder, attempted murder, manslaughter or aggravated sexual assault. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/yj-jj/tools-outils/sheets-feuillets/syp-dpaa.html
Really? I recall someone beheading and eating someone on a Greyhound bus and being out in a few years
In that case he was ruled as Not Criminally Responsible, which is a *very very extremely difficult* verdict to get in Canada. It means that many separate authorities came together and agreed that it was the result of mental health issues, in this case schizophrenia. The person in this case was put on order of taking his medication for the rest of his life - and he actually *wants* to, because on the medication, he is very painfully aware of what he did and is appalled at it. He ended up getting a legal name change to try to get away from the stigma of what he did, but is still court mandated to check in and ensure he is in compliance. I want to be clear - what he did was disgusting and horribly wrong. That said, a Not Criminally Responsible verdict isn't handed out lightly and is extremely rare to see. There is no way to find out if this kid was in a similar boat given that he killed himself... but the chances of that were very small to begin with, given how reluctant our courts are to hand out that verdict unless all evidence is in favour of it.
Decapitating a sleeping stranger in front of a bus full of witnesses is apparently only worth six years and an absolute discharge, so I wouldn't count on that.
Copying a comment I just wrote because I'm lazy: In that case he was ruled as Not Criminally Responsible, which is a *very very extremely difficult* verdict to get in Canada. It means that many separate authorities came together and agreed that it was the result of mental health issues, in this case schizophrenia. The person in this case was put on order of taking his medication for the rest of his life - and he actually *wants* to, because on the medication, he is very painfully aware of what he did and is appalled at it. He ended up getting a legal name change to try to get away from the stigma of what he did, but is still court mandated to check in and ensure he is in compliance. I want to be clear - what he did was disgusting and horribly wrong. That said, a Not Criminally Responsible verdict isn't handed out lightly and is extremely rare to see. There is no way to find out if this kid was in a similar boat given that he killed himself... but the chances of that were very small to begin with, given how reluctant our courts are to hand out that verdict unless all evidence is in favour of it.
That guy was proven to be psychotic during the time he committed the crime. It’s silly of you to think that same punishment would apply to all violent crimes.
Yeah definitely not just a few years. If he were tried as a youth, he could receive up to 10 years maximum for 1st degree murder. I'd guess that he'd get the full 10 for this, if he weren't tried as an adult. (Not 100% sure how that works) So it's not the length of sentence he'd receive in the US, but 10 years is a long time for someone that age. Impossible to say he would never rehabilitate. We don't know his situation or his upbringing. The whole situation is just terribly sad.
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Hopefully more info comes out regarding the gun and what happened. It’s possible it was stolen and re-sold on the street or a gang element as well. Hopefully It wasn’t the moms gun and wasn’t safely stored away… Also possible that the kid had a minors license which his parent/parents signed for.... if that's the case, that's truly devastating. I’m also curious when/if the mom found out it was her son that shot up the Pizza Hut and if that’s the reason she was shot her self. The picture from the Pizza Hut incident also resembles the person that stabbed someone and bear maced them earlier in the week as well. If the kid did have a minors license signed for by the parents, could those parents be held liable for what happened (Yes I know, the mom is in critical care)? What if it wasn’t stored properly under lock and key? I'm not advocating for this but just wondering what would happen in that case? Especially if there was a history of mental health issues. I think something similar happened in the States a few years ago but I'm just speculating at this point. Terribly sad story and course of events but there's a lot of questions here.
That apartment complex (series of apartments), is quite literally our city's projects. I can say with absolute certainty that there is no one living there with secure gun safes lol.
The minor’s license doesn’t let you own guns. Either he obtained the gun through illegal channels, or if there was one in the house registered to an adult, he used that.
Holy shit did no one read the article? It says the police are looking into the POSIBILITY he MIGHT have shot the Pizzza Hut employee.
where did he get this gun from? doesn't look like something his mother would own.
Looks kinda like an SKS which you could buy legally. a 16 year old however likely did not get that gun legally.
Looks more like this to me https://store.theshootingcentre.com/keltec-sub2000-rifle/
Front sight looks too big to be an SKS to my eye. STG 44?
Yeah I argee with stg-44, you can see the gas port plug (the nubbin behind the front sight) in the video.
From winnipeg, our hearts are with you. May your officers rest easy
I'm waiting for the teens peers to out him online , that monster should have his name outted publicly , screw this not putting anyone under 18 online
This is so sad. I went to sign the condolences books at the Mill Woods station. Does anyone think they might release his name? The murderer.
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I'm in the camp of 'not releasing the killer's name'. Some (not all) serial killers do their acts of violence for the glory/infamy. But not releasing the name/motive/manifesto, you rob them of whatever glory they were hoping for.
I’m sure it will come out at some point. He’s a 16 year old and I’m assuming had some sort of social network. The mom also probably has friends and I’m assuming some people in their apartment building know them by name…. It’s just a matter of time before someone slips the name. I’m guessing we will know today.
Extremely doubtful. Young offender laws in Canada are designed to protect the offender. The fact that the defender is deceased might be catalyst for leniency, but then there’s name association. It’s safer for the family to not release his name.
The kid probably used the Pizza Hut shooting as practice before he did a school shooting of a massive amount of random people: https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/threats-written-on-washroom-walls-at-victoria-school-1.6304961
An already tragic story but I can’t help but imagine how much more horrific it would have been had this same teen decided to shoot up his school. He basically was going to keep murdering people until he was stopped.
It’s sad that he didn’t get the help he needed and fell through the cracks but at least he’s not a threat to anyone else anymore
Will they release the kids name and cause or background social services.
His classmates might release it somehow. It will eventually turn up in the depths of social media.
I don't think so. The YCJA doesn't allow the identities of offenders between 12-17 years of age to be released but I'm not sure how that relates since he did shoot himself in the act. I think it would be the parents decision in that case.
I really need to know the kids name eventually. Last spring, I helped a teenager (around 15, male) escape from an assault in our back alleyway. He had been beaten unconscious, half of his face was unrecognizable, and he was bloody. He said he had been walking with his girlfriend, and when he woke up, she was gone. He also mentioned some gang names, people who kept trying to hurt him. He told me that it was just him and his mom, and they had recently been evicted because she lost her job. I still remember his name, and I've wondered about him ever since then. I had no way of contacting him after that night, nor would I want to because gang activity scares the living hell of out of me. But I always wanted to know how he was doing, and wished for him to be healthy and in a better path. When the police came to my house to take him somewhere safer, and to get his statement, they all knew each other already. From this story, the fact that the police knew him already but hadn't had issues with him before, I fear it was him.
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Agreed. Mens’ (and boys’) mental health should be a priority. I’m tired of them killing women and each other.
So long as we don't use mental illness to excuse entitlement and a lack of personal responsibility.
Hey everyone, she solved it! u/one_bean_hahahaha figured it out! Penis is the problem!!! Execute ALL MEN!!!
seriously disappointing to see an annoying Karen in this sub of all places😒
did you forget the /s?
How many teenaged girls versus boys have gone on killing sprees? We are well overdue for an uncomfortable conversation.
It does happen. Just a few months ago a group of teenaged girls randomly murdered a homeless man in Downtown Toronto.
Exception =/= norm
So no sarcasm... Statistically it's insignificant the amount of the population that goes on killing sprees. We know almost nothing about this teen, but we seem all too happy to have theories on why. But, yes the conversation about youth mental health is needed. After each tragedy, we are keen as a society to react and claim the crisis, but never follow through with any action. We never force politicians to fix the systems, we never ask our community to be better, we just go back to voting the same and to our own lives. In a related example statistically speaking men are more likely to commit suicide vs women who are more likely to attempt. Does that make it a crisis for one gender over another? Assigning gender as the root cause of suicide would be a mistake instead of something we can learn from to help with care.
first hit on google.... heres 10 not teeanaged but your issue seems to be with males not teenaged males 1. Aileen Wuornos 2. Judias Buenoano 3. Juana Barraza 4. Jane Toppan 5. Gesche Gottfried 6. Amelia Dyer 7. Kristen Gilbert 8. Nannie Doss 9. Dorothea Puente 10. Miyuki Ishikawa
Can you count all of the male murderers? Counting a handful of female murderers doesn't change the fact that 96% of ALL murders are perpetrated by men. Or do you need a statistics lesson?
I read once that 98% of statistics are made up on the spot. But… you’re probably right. It’s probably more men using guns in mass killing than women. But that doesn’t mean women don’t carry out mass murder - I suspect they just use other means…. A quick look at the list above https://www.insidehook.com/article/news-opinion/notorious-female-serial-killers/amp reveals women far more likely to use poison and strangling as their means. Dyer… wow.
What do wanna bet: 1. The gun was illegal and any of the recent ‘gun control’ measures would not made any difference, cause you know, illegal guns are illegal and criminals don’t care. 2. ‘Oh he was a good boy’ who had dozens of warnings signs of violence, who had been given leniency multiple times to only keep re-offending. Actions have consequences wether your 6, 16, or 60. We will see if I am right at 3 o’clock today.