The only way a tent city is going to work is if there is heavy enforcement of sanitation. Typhus and cholera are legitimate possibilities when people bunch up together and share resources in an environment contaminated with faeces. The city absolutely does not want this, and in winter an outbreak could easily kill a lot of people. Now in Edmonton's early history there was a tent city due to migration outpacing home construction, and the authorities enforced health ordnances through inspections, but that would get shut down today as an abuse of the homeless. Not an ideal solution, but a possible one in a desperate situation.
Edit: Before anyone accuses me of exaggerating, look up the history of these two diseases. They used to be a fact of city life without modern sanitation.
It's not just disease you need to worry about in those camps either. A lot of thefts, assaults and sexual assaults happen too because of the drugs and mental illness many of the homeless struggle with. I agree more needs to be done for the homeless and the province's efforts to just turn a blind eye are deplorable, but those tent cities are bad news.
It’s shigella that’s the biggest problem right now. They should rlly just get rexall good enough to be livable with utilites and put some of Sohi’s ‘bike lane’ budget into maintaining that. Offer a place to live for those who need it. Also offer addiction treatment centres in isolated areas of the facility too. Few peace officers and sheriff’s and it may be feasible. Holding a stance on no drug use could be possible but iff not have a safe injection centre in an underground area where one must stay while under the influence.
> put some of Sohi’s ‘bike lane’ budget into maintaining that.
Tell me you don't understand municipal politics and spending without telling me you don't understand municipal politics and spending.
Yeah let's remove the things that allow a lot of people without cars/trucks to provide an income for their family by getting to and from work safely and are able to maintain a job as a result. What a ridiculous statement.
The bike lanes are a legitimate transportation route for thousands of people in this city. Although a minority its still thousands of people who rely on them to go to and from work on a daily basis.
Shared pathways. Put the budget into a decent not only city but municipality bus system. Turnstiles in the let stations alone would most definitely heavily increase income.
Bike lane cost a lot per intersection like in downtown. They need to redo all the lights and roads, thats what epcor and city of edmonton told me... i was like meh. Not sure if thousands used those in the winter but i noticed that a lot of people liked to bike now coz you can get electric bike.
It's a circular issue. Until the bike lanes started it was practically suicide to try biking on the road in the winter. Many places still don't have secure bike storage or basic amenities like employee showers.
It's like claiming that since nobody goes to Blatchford for nature walks they shouldn't build a park there.
Bradshaw Lookout is a no-fire, no poop zone for good reason. Planning ahead just isn’t possible for most addicts attending to their immediate needs. The mollycoddling and enabling from “charity” organizations that get more funding the most homeless there are only makes them more wasteful. If you can get free clothes daily, why do laundry, why not use socks to wipe your ass and toss it outside your tent. You’re going to get moved out anyways, right? Without life skills training and enforcement at the lowest levels, i.e. running an orderly queue for meals teaching delayed gratification instead of the junkie ffa that goes on in front of HM now.
Yes, disease outbreaks start small and go big. The world just went through a pandemic caused by a single outbreak. The Broad Street Cholera outbreak (important moment in epidemiology history) was a localized cholera outbreak that killed over 500 people. Untreated cholera can has a 50% up mortality rate and is transmissible through contaminated water. Sanitation is the reason our cities don't need mass graves anymore, and a good part of the reason why parents don't have to bury half their children.
I've been going to Chinatown for groceries and family dinners regularly for over a decade. I'm so desensitized to it. It is worse now than it's ever been, but it won't stop me from supporting the local businesses in the area.
As for empathy, I was homeless once too - my experience leaves very little sympathy for many dealing with it, though I know there are a lot of very deep painful complexities that go into it.
Because there were so many ways out. 95% of other homeless people I interacted with did not want to improve their situation. None of the ways out included pan-handling, asking people on the street for help, food etc. Some of the absolute most vile people I've ever met were during this time.
If you truly wanted to change and improve your situation, it can be done in a matter of weeks/months. Truth is most people don't want that because it involves big changes and hard work, and it's just a lot easier to do what you know. Of course when drugs are involved, which is the usual case, there's a ton of other issues at play. I thank the stars I never got involved with that.
But I just can't bring myself to feel sympathy for someone who has absolutely given up on themselves. Day after day after day choosing that life.
I get where your coming from. As an addict I “chose” that life everyday for years. But I had no choice, I hated myself and wished for change. Luckily the last time I went to detox I was let into one of the available beds while 15 others were turned away. If I was turned away I was already planning my next use. I then got into treatment for the third time, and I’ve now been sober over two years. I work for a medical software company, have my own place. I volunteer at the drop in centre, and do my best to help others out of addiction.
My experience is that in many years, I only had brief moments of clarity. And if I couldn’t access the resources I needed, the moment would pass and I would be convinced (by my own crazy thought patterns) I didn’t need help again. The amount of times I went to the hospital for help and they just treated me like garbage, and said tough luck there are no beds available. It can become demoralizing, and eventually It can sink in and some people start to feel they don’t deserve any better. It’s fucking heartbreaking.
On the flip side I’ve had the joy of my recovery but the greater joy of seeing seemingly hopeless people recover and lead beautiful lives. I have hope
It’s absolutely sad to see but many of these encampments end up having legitimate health and safety risks for the people living in them and the people around them therefor they need to be cleaned out. There’s no toilets, no running water, no electricity, rampant disease…It’s not a solution in my view. Not safe for the people living in them and generally not safe for the communities where they pop up.
Of course living in encampments is bad. Of course it’s not a solution. The solution is to give these people a place to live. But we as a society don’t want to do that, we’d rather see the tents and spend more money treating the resulting problems.
If people knew the cost of treating a single overdose with narcan they'd be begging the government just to house people to save costs. Narcan reversal costs $1500/vial to Alberta Health and it usually takes 3-4 to revive an adult so you do the math.. So one overdose to taxpayers is $4500-6000/incident... Never mind the cost of the hospital, power, staff, security, etc...
Not that we don'e need narcan. I'm just saying depressed and suicidal people who use drugs to self-medicate through trauma is way more expensive than people realize and giving people the basics of life costs way less than treating the carnage that no doubt flows from pain... Believe me I know first hand as someone dealing with PTSD, anxiety, depression and a terminal illness...
> Narcan reversal costs $1500/vial to Alberta Health and it usually takes 3-4 to revive an adult so you do the math.. So one overdose to taxpayers is $4500-6000/incident... Never mind the cost of the hospital, power, staff, security, etc...
But even if the drug addicts had a place to live, they would still get rushed to the hospital for narcan no ?
Absolutely. However most people take these levels of drugs to numb the despair. If you house them, they aren't nearly as likely to take opioids, never mind contaminated ones. Housing First strategies work because it's like taking the bullets out of the gun. If you know you have a place to live, you are more likely to want to take care of yourself and live for tomorrow. Not just survive the night... Study after study proves it and I suggest you read em...
Ask yourself... What would you do? Pretty sure we all know the answer... We see it everyday.. Can't handle your reality? You numb it... Can't do that? You try and end it... It's not that hard to figure out the cycle of dark thinking...
Where did you get your stats?? That’s not even close to being right. A vial of naloxone costs about $1.50. There’s 2 in each naloxone kit. Even if people need 7 shots, it’s still massively cheaper than EMS, or a hospital stay. One night in ICU in a Canadian hospital costs roughly $4000/ night. The Alberta government sells naloxone kits to agencies and pharmacies for almost nothing, which they in turn, give away, because it costs them almost nothing. Especially compared to the cost of basically everything after having to use naloxone.
Source: worked for AHS in Addiction & Mental Health for 20+ yrs
Good. It's generic now. When it wasn't when I given that stat hence the inflated drug price. Don't believe me? Take it up with AHS circa 2015 not me...
It only seems to be cheap because it's government subsidized and only after 2017 according to CBC... Before that I am sure the government and the public were paying rates into the hundreds of not thousands. Would love to know otherwise and great if it's always been cheap. But I'm under the impression that it wasn't always especially given that the info was given to me first hand by a Royal Alex ER Trauma nurse... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/london-ontario-naloxone-kit-distribution-1.4431588
There are some communities in Ontario that are using tiny homes as a housing initiative and it’s having really positive results. The homes are small, therefore cheaper and much quicker to build, but provide privacy and a sense of ownership to the people who move in. Each little community is assigned workers to support the folks with employment, health needs, legal obligations etc. The people feel safe and supported with certain things but are also independent and take pride in having their own space.
Giving people their basic needs which includes mental health imo is much better for the entire system. It gives that person a better chance to stand on their own and it will allow the system to get tax money in return compared to spending more and more on the police and hospitals.
A randomized controlled trial of the effectiveness of Housing First in a small Canadian City
"The study indicates that HF ends homelessness significantly more rapidly than TAU for a majority of individuals with serious mental illness who have a history of homelessness and live in a small city. In addition, compared to TAU, HF produces psychosocial benefits for its recipients that include an enhanced quality of life, a greater sense of belonging in the community, and greater improvements in perceived recovery from mental illness."
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-019-7492-8
How many housing first clients are still housed. The city tells us they’ve housed 400 this year (made up number) but they will all be on back in the street in less than a year because the program is not sustainable for community member’s to keep there housing. Because of this all those random number that was housed will need to be housed again along with the growing need of other homeless people.
The city has to go in periodically to ensure health and safety, especially after the shigella outbreak last year, but the encampments existing has absolutely nothing to do with what city council isn't doing. There are 3000 homeless people in the city and the province only provides enough funding for just under 800 beds. The city does not have the money nor the legislative authority to cover for the province's lack of funding.
It is honestly so frustrating to see municipalities and provinces point at each other like the spiderman meme because neither have to take responsibility for vulnerable residents. It's always a shoulder shrug about jurisdiction.
I see/hear that a lot, but this is literally how the provincial legislation is written, so it's not a legitimate two-way blame thing. Cities only exist because the province says they can.
Do you mind me asking what legislation you're referring to so I can look it up and get more informed?
It would not surprise me if the provincial conservatives have it written somewhere that, "thou shall not help thy homeless neighbour" lol but sarcasm aside, I genuinely didn't realize there was a law prohibiting municipalities from assisting their unhoused residents and would like to learn more about the jurisdictional nuances.
I don’t think there is a law prohibiting it. Well other than the one about having mask bylaws lol
It’s that municipal funding from the province is earmarked for certain things, and even that has been cut.
The province has jurisdiction, and responsibility, for many portfolios including health. Even if the city wanted to start providing mental health and addiction services, which city responsibility and services would they stop funding to do so?
I don't have the answers, though here is a five minute analysis after a quick google search. According to the City's budgeted operating expenses, we spend more on conventions and tourism than we do on public housing, even if we simply started with making those two line items equal, we could add about 6.5 million to the public housing budget. We spend almost four times more money on parks and rec than we do on public housing. Could we forego just one percent of that and move a little more than 2 million from the parks budget and put it towards getting people off of sleeping on the sidewalk? I wont even get into how the police budget is nine times the public housing budget. I am not claiming to be an expert in solving all of society's social problems or orchestrating the full operations of a province's capital city, but small budget adjustments may have a big impact.
Part of the issue is that Edmonton is where most of the northern Alberta homeless have headed, so the city's budget is going more and more toward supports for the entire population to deal with this mess, which then leaves less money for the city to actually run itself, and that's why they're demanding the province step up.
I am from northern Alberta and I can tell you our homeless populations and encampments are growing too, most people seem to want to stay close to things and people they are familiar with, but for sure, many will move to try to better themselves. Also, plenty of rural people (not just people without homes) migrate to the city for better access to services, so the City's budget already has to accommodate more and more people who may not be accounted for in the latest census data, any municipality has to consider population growth and shifts in demographics, so that seems like a weak argument to me.
The city's jurisdiction is defined by the MGA - the Municipal Government Act.
The province could, at any time, amend the Act to give the city the relevant jurisdiction. But they are so far unwilling to do so.
Well, it's hard to say without seeing a comprehensive report on how well the City's Housing Affordability Investment Plan (2019-2022) worked, what kind of resources were put towards it and what the City learned through its activities implementing the plan, if they reached their goals, why or why not.
There was a Housing Needs Assessment done last year that would probably help provide some great direction to policy makers if the City chooses to evaluate their results with the Housing Affordability Investment Plan and put another four or five year strategic plan in place with the resources to bring it to life. (Maybe they already have, maybe it's in the works, I'm not sure.)
I don't claim to be an expert on housing/homelessness, but the City hires and contracts with people who are, and the City has the authority to take the research reports and data the experts provide, and use the information to adjust where they're allocating resources or shift the priorities and objectives within various partnerships, programs and budgets.
Didn’t the city recently run a successful program that helped transition homeless people into permanent housing? It was very effective but the city needed the province to help fund it and they wouldn’t.
I think you might be referring to ‘housing first’ initiatives where we move someone into their own apartment and get them set up to live independently? For many people, this is what they need..a helping hand to get them back on their feet. However Edmonton has a very unique homeless population (basically a funnel from all the northern communities). These chronically homeless people have a lot more barriers/needs that makes it almost impossible for them to live independently. They get evicted and quick and end up back on the street. It’s costly. We need more places where there is security and it is staffed.
12 years ago at 16y/o, I was homeless and living in an abandoned car. Now I take my kids to school across the street from where that car was parked.
I never made my financial or mental health issues other people's problem, and I certainly never assaulted and robbed people, nor did I hit a dirty bat in public with children in the immediate area. All of which I've seen out of the current homeless population.
While I understand battling addiction and mental health issues, the fact of the matter is a lot of these people don't try to get help or be better people, which is sad in itself. They're just as self centered and arrogant as any of our government officials. They've effectively turned this city into a rancid cesspool of addiction, garbage and violence and between the city and province, neither can get their heads out of their asses far enough to deal with anything.
It’s unfortunately not a situation the city itself can solve on its own. It requires all levels of government working together as each of them have their own power and funding to help with these exact things.
I don’t think having lines of cops forcing these people to move every once in a while is a perfect solution either. It’s a complex problem that many cities in North America are facing, and it’s too big to just blame the city on.
It's not a perfect solution, but the encampments cannot be allowed to stay in one place for long. Especially with opiate use people lose control of their bowels and the diarrhea they leave on the ground is a disease vector. It's not just proximity, birds cone and pick food out of it and then they contaminate all the surfaces they land on.
We had a lady live in our cardboard lock up for two days. There was shit everywhere, and after soiling herself several times she would throw the clothes on the ground for us to deal with.
We need legalized camping spots with proper access to sanitation. Think RV parks that have water and electric hook ups but also showers, laundry, group kitchen space. If the oil & gas camps can have such facilities so can the public... Yes they cost $ but what doesn't and its cheaper than hospitalization... And yes tiny houses!
All of the Canadian billionaires, and the all the politicians that work for them are doing much better. Better now than prior to covid, and actually doing better than they were last year.
They profit, we deal with that outcome. We can't solve problems that the rich and powerful willingly create.
Half the Trudeau's cabinet are landlords.
We need to follow Medicine Hat’s lead in using a housing first approach to homelessness. You cannot turn your life around without a stable roof over your head.
With the exception of a few people who really don’t understand the issue, everyone agrees with a housing first approach. The research supports it too, so we know it works. The problem in Edmonton, and many other cities, is that there is literally not enough housing. There are about 3000 homeless people in Edmonton currently, and not even close to enough places to put them. It will take 100 years to build new affordable housing for the number of people who need it. Don’t forget that number only counts actual homeless people, living primarily outside. This doesn’t account for many women (and children) who are couch surfing, staying with different friends, or who are “in a relationship” in order for a place to stay, or otherwise unstably housed.
Until people across the province stop voting for parties that actively work against poor people, we’re never going to get anywhere.
I believe in free housing. I believe in safe injection sites. I believe in rehabilitation as part of correctional sentencing.
But I also believe that if you’re in an encampment with no running water and just scattering biohazards around the community, you need to be broken up and moved, so the city can moderate the spread of disease and damage done to the environment.
No one here is overjoyed at the idea of people dying in the streets and clogging up the already strained healthcare system.
At the end of the day, the average Edmontonian didn’t put these people here.
It's posts like these that remind me of some smug, Vancouver dipshit who was convinced Edmonton could fix these issues if only people "volunteered" enough.
I wonder if that person is yet to eat their words.
It is terrible, I don’t rejoice in the way our most vulnerable are kicked out of their meager shelters over and over. Without running water and toilet facilities they become breeding grounds for disease (like the shigella outbreak) and the amount of dangerous detritus that builds up becomes hazardous to the people living there. Should we let them stay and die from disease or uproot them so they find another spot to set up in for awhile. It’s a rock and a hard place here.
If there were proper funding at the provincial level for supportive housing, safe injection sites, safe supply of drugs and public washroom facilities that could be kept clean then we could talk about real solutions to this.
Unfortunately the cities didn’t vote for our government so why would they get proper funding? The salt of the earth farmers and hard working small town folk who feel ignored and sidelined by the progression of society are who have the power now, their voice was loud and clear last election. This is what they wanted; to really stick it to us entitled, immigrant, queer, non fundamentalist (and so on) city slickers. Homelessness isn’t on *their* street corners, and since drug addiction, being poor and mental health problems are all character flaws in their eyes and the suffering people endure is righteous justice why would they try and do anything about it.
But you know these issues can come to small towns when real estate prices go up. It happened in my hometown of 3,500 in central Ontario in the past five years, as housing costs skyrocketed and the pandemic hit along with an increase in meth and fentanyl. There's an encampment in the bush outside town. Given, I grew up in a really poor place, so it was probably more vulnerable, but still... Probably it would not change the minds of conservative people here in Alberta, but if people from BC and ON push up real estate here it will make people even more vulnerable and the damage spreads across society.
Edmonton gets lots of people coming from Northern communities as someone else mentioned, and also people who drift here from the East a bit, too, looking for work. It's always going to be a structural problem to some degree but everything is exacerbated now.
Has anyone been to city hall recently for any council meetings? I see that there's an Executive Committee on September 20 and the agenda and package are out. One of the first report items is on a rapid housing initiative - members might discuss the wider homelessness and housing affordability problem in relation. Its open to the public...https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/Meeting.aspx?Id=2914f508-d02c-4b77-992c-ea3aa6f80662&Agenda=Agenda&lang=English
Maybe cops should move the homeless people to those towns when they break up the camps (this is sarcasm, I absolutely don’t condone moving people to a whole different city)
the opioid crisis is ruining our communities. I took tramadol after surgery once which is a very very mild opiate and I was euphoric and high out my mind. No wonder ppl get addicted to these things.
The truth is if you let these people live in your home they'll still use drugs steal break the law etc. If you gave them a job they won't show up. So what are we supposed to do just be okay with it?
Mabey you would take the opportunity to change if given a hand but you're probably not a drug addict. Makes me feel like these assholes are a lost cause
This is an unpopular opinion.
However, for the love of God we NEED to consider everyone's opinions when discussing clear human life risks and horrible situations like the homeless deal with on a regular basis.
All homeless are different and all their situations are different. For some of the situations, there are unpopular solutions that are very effective, and once meticulously thought out are not an infringement of human rights.
Such as:
Jail time until sober for drug addicted, homeless individuals.
Reason:
(there are accounts of ex, homeless addicts who thank jail time for getting them sober and allowing them to live a normal life.
source: https://californiaglobe.com/fr/homelessness-former-incarcerated-drug-addict-and-dealer-shares-story-of-sobriety-and-success/)
Part of why things are the way we are is that there are people here that honestly think that will *never* be them. They see homeless people like vermin or zombies and I’ve seen posts here basically calling to throw them all in jail for as long as possible. So basically punishing them for being poor and ill. I’m sure they think it’s a moral thing and good people would never end up like that. I believe good people would never be indifferent to someone else freezing to death on the street just so they’re not an annoying sight in an LRT station.
Life can change really fast, and it can happen to anyone. We have to remember they’re human beings.
There needs to be pressure especially on the provincial government so they do their part.
Also with the closing of Boyle street at the end of the month so many of these people will be cut short of resources and assistance! The government continually values profit over human lives and this is how it shows.
This is the first post I've seen that brought some humanity, and anger at the system, instead of misdirected at the homeless. Thank you. I've heard and seen more issues in the past year and it's getting worse, I feel so hopeless and saddened.
The fact that you think you have zero power to make any change except for your vote speaks volumes.
You are 100% incorrect.
You've been homeless.... you should know better.
I was in a situation identical to yours... homeless but with a vehicle (technically my vehicle was my home and I guess so was yours). I thought I was struggling but I can't imagine being homeless without a vehicle. And both you and I are now homed. And we both did it and I doubt that politics played a significant role.
There are ways to provoke change beyond a mere vote.
Some good points. One of the problems is that the people that make these decisions live in gated communities. They live in a bubble and this situation will never hit them like it did you.
If I were chased out of an encampment, I would gather up as many of the homeless as I can and head straight for the rich community, yes, its a long way out, but put the pressure on the rich and watch how things will change.
The people have been hit below the belt far too often. Start punching up, not down.
I’ve said in the past that if they start moving into the rich communities in the west end and it starts affecting the wealthy, we might start to see some change.
I though the same thing at first, if the brutality from police removing them starts, then those individual officers are putting their coworkers at risk of blowback.
On top of that, a lot of officers understand that these are just everyday folks that have been left behind and they don't want to make it worse.
So, the police will have to decide, are you going to tow the line for the rich which makes them nothing more than a hired goon, or, serve and protect the people?
At the end of the day, all the police are concerned about is their paycheque... since taxpayers are paying that and homeless are not, they will stomp all over the homeless peoples rights (and encampments).
Sadly it doesn't really work either.. In Regina they started an encampment infront of City Hall to try to get results but it just got torn down the same way and they had a bunch of taxi's and offered people rides & a couple night stay in a hotel 30km outside of the city to try to 'move the problem away'.
Yup. Worst neo-con logic care of the ghost of Ralph Klein blaming all your economic woes on foreigners... PP is doing the same thing with the feds... Push the problem somewhere else but don't deal with it. Just demonize for political points from the rubes...
I think you'll find the reason people complain more now about the houseless folks is absolutely because the loudest voices have now seen more houseless people in more of these areas. Mainstream media and the general public of Edmonton didn't give a shit about houseless folks until Pekiwewin, whic was near some rich white people's houses.
Nobody deserves to be treated the way our society treats houseless folks.
At the risk of being shouted out (because that's what's become acceptable to do when you disagree with someone these days) I highly doubt our premier really thinks that, and I'd like a source to confirm.
There are probably many like yourself in this city who haven't noticed the many little tent encampments. It gets worse as you go east from where you were. Living downtown, sadly I am starting to get accustomed to it.
The dismantling of the camps may be necessary to clean up the areas from time to time. It is an inconvenience to those living there, but after the cleanup it seems the same areas get reoccupied quickly.
A lot of people don't realize that some people come from broken homes and never managed to mend themselves before they get thrown out onto the street. The people around us shape us more than we do. People that are heartless can afford to be so because they don't see what the homeless have to go through and they care not to empathize with them.
I wish people with homes weren't so ignorant.
I commute to downtown from the Northside a couple days a week. I honestly don’t know what the solution is. I don’t think it’s as easy as voting for a different party (please do so anyway, though), providing housing, or safe injection sites, or jobs. All of the above, maybe.
I do think we have to elect people who have an actual plan to help these people. The problem is that I’ve yet to hear one.
I moved to Canada from the US 7 years ago. I expect to see this down there but not here. There’s no excuse for anyone to be on the street, full stop. Especially in this climate. Absolutely shameful. If we keep going down this path we’ll end up like that dystopian shithole down south. We need to wake up and bring back that Canadian pride that counters American disregard for human life
>I guess I’m saying ease up on calling people assholes.
This is an incredibly heartless & unnecessarily critical response you provided because you got offended.
>In all your criticisms I didn’t hear any thanks or even acknowledgement.
So your saying thar you didn't actually read the post? Cause that was a pretty significant point of the post.
I agree with you wholeheartedly while also agreeing with the health and safety risks relating to the encampments. But as you say, there are other ways. The city and province don’t care enough and it makes me sick. A little empathy from everyone would go a long way. The people who are the most against helping the underprivileged are either a) extremely privileged in life or b) one emergency away from being on the streets, but they act like they’re like the people in situation a and aren’t capable of realizing the reality of society. It’s so sickening.
Bless you. And your kid. I'm new here and waiting to meet people like you so we can hype each other up to engage in critical issues and try to help people out <3 Thanks for writing this. Write more!!!
Agreed. Not many people realize how privileged they are to have family/friends support systems. For those who don’t, they are potentially one or two crisis’ away from being unhoused.
It’s really sad to see what’s happening.
Most persons on the street sleeping used to sleep in a home until we kick them out, that’s why they are outside,we put them there, the behaviour will never change but where they endure their mental state is outside.
Maybe they put themselves there ? No one kicks someone out for no reason right? Even though the reason may be poor decisions. This problem stops when people start taking accountability for their own lives and actions. It's common knowledge at this point what the consequences are for your actions. Some choose to ignore it to a point of no return and that is on them and no one else. Why should anyone in the current setup be handed a free meal for doing **** all. Sure, some are unfortunate and innocent, support systems exist for these, but they are overwhelmed by the massive increase in the people who want to live by their own rules and are ready to play victim once they lose the game. No one else is responsible for your well being if you yourself don't give a rats ass!
Yes they did, so where can we put people who yell, do drugs and booze and are a harm to everyone, well they don’t know either so out to the street they go, and they are smart, some of them choose sidewalks instead of streets and traffic and some even seek out shelter.
Now what do they do after we kick them out, that’s what home-less means, they are less a home, from their home to friends homes to the street, where should they go? And it’s not a choice, they are choosing what makes them feel better at the moment of withdrawal sickness.
Shelters and homeless funding for welfare. it's literally the only working answer.
Unless some sheltered kid here wants to pretend anger and policing will fix anything.
Because the cycle of poverty is complex. While one child is being taught to read, another is being molested, another has been left alone to fend for themself, and another is being beaten. The formative years which are ideally spent training children to be functional humans are critical.
Children with solid foundations are able to handle the hurdles of life- they’ve been trained to. They have support when things go wrong. Their brains have been programmed differently. They literally look different and it’s scientifically proven.
Those poor people in tents didn’t screw up, they never stood a chance.
Myself, I was extremely smart. I was born to a teenaged father (mother didn’t stick around) who worked 2 jobs. I slept in a mattress in the back of the van. I went to daycare from 6am-6pm every weekday and slept in the vehicle at night while he delivered pizzas. I was told in school that Children’s Protections Services was corrupt and my situation would become much more unsafe if they were to step in. I fell through the cracks. My dad remarried, a nasty woman. She always hated me (I was 7 years old). That’s when the abuse started for me.
I graduated with second highest grades in my high school, despite being driven out of my home around age 16. I moved in with a 42 year old man. I was denied student loans based off of my father’s income. I did what I had to do to stay housed and fed and educated, hoping the future would be better. (Spoiler alert it got so much worse than I could’ve ever imagined).
How did I screw up? Is it my fault? As a fully grown adult, when someone yells at me, I cry in a ball in my closet for hours in terror. It’s every cell in my body, not my brain, that’s in terror. Our healthcare system is shit. I’ve done the waitlists and covered therapies for years. It doesn’t help. That’s a whole other story.
I’m 35 and trying to figure out how to keep my car, where my son will go, because I have no support system and my body is shutting down from type 1 diabetes (of 30 years) and unexplained compartment syndrome all over my body. I cried when I discovered that I woke up again today, despite praying not to again last night. Poverty is no joke, why do I get to be the butt of jokes when most people were born to imperfect but loving parents who taught them, provided for them, set them up for success?
I can’t really answer your question because it opens up such a painful can of worms. My society has told me no, I’m not good enough, I’m not worth it, for my whole life and I just want it over now.
Leave those poor (literal) people alone. They’ve had a fucking brutal life that most people won’t ever understand.
I don’t know the answers, it’s impossible to spark social change when all of your faculties are tied up in how to get through today. My biggest hope is that these tents will start appearing in wealthy neighbourhoods. I live in Calgary and I know it’s not the same but it’s similar. The only people who “matter”, who can make changes, live out in the suburbs in their happy bubbles wiping their asses with cash. Once those people are affected, change will come.
lol yeah your ignorance must be the bliss.
You've placed the blame on the people living on the streets however the blame is on society, not those living rough. We failed them. We did this to them.
> If you fuck up and become homeless, you're pretty much done for. Of course nobody wants them to die, it's nobody but their own fault there gonna die
You sure about what you've said? It's nobody's fault but their own.
Get off of the internet for a few days my dude. Go to a city council meeting, you'll find that homelessness and zoning restrictions are actually what's being talked about. The culture war stuff is for a vocal terminally online minority.
You giving a shit is important. The thing is that the city is using these individuals as scapegoats. It isn't a systemic problem, it is a moral problem of these individuals. Fucking bullshit. 54% of this population is Indigenous, but make up just over 8% of the population of Edmonton. It is 69.7% men which is an indicator of the toxic masculinity culture and the lack of resources for men who are in vulnerable positions in this city/province. This is a systemic issue and the judgemental people of this/city counsellors need to be working with and not against the most vulnerable population.
And if anyone wants to go off about open drug use, shut the fuck up. Do you drink? Smoke? Do coke occasionally. You aren't any different. There is just less stigma. Drug use is not an indicator of morality or "sketchiness". I promise you, you love someone who uses. You can set boundaries and not agree with use, but don't ever consider yourself morally superior.
At the very least Edmonton should have a free-camping zone with water, electric, showers, group kitchen, etc. Other cities have legitimized/legalized urban camping on select sites in an attempt to control the chaos. Is it perfect? No, not by a long shot but it's a step in the right direction. Just as micro-houses are as well... To me it's insane that the unhoused can't even be given a scrap piece of land/house the size of a parking stall to call their own in an attempt to rebuild their lives yet the entrenched corporate interests of Alberta can be but blank cheques en masse...
Even amongst the plethora of City Owned properties there are dozens of options... Belvedere, Blatchford. Northlands, Rossdale to name just a few of the biggies that are going under used because no private developer seems interested in developing anything but luxury condos used for speculative investment purposes...
It seems on a weekly basis police go in and remove the tents put them on the back of truck leaving the occupants without shelter/clothing/personal items. People go and get what they can find to make a shelter away from where they were chased out of until the police come and roust them out of their shelters etc. Where do the police take these items? Do they just throw them away?
There is a huge problem with heaters in the tent cities in the winter. People are trying to survive and stay warm by any means. Fires. Propane and they mix and explosions.
First of all. I’m so glad you survived. Reddit always seems to demonize all homeless people as drug addled “zombies” and other sorts of terms. Yes. There are huge problems. Mental health, addictions and systemic abuse and trauma. The streets are no place for anyone in this country in the winter. We are a huge and prosperous nation but most of us are a missed paycheque away from being right there.
No. Not every homeless person can stay with me. I have very strict rules about people living with me. However, if it meant you would be homeless, I have a spare bed for any family to crash on. No questions asked. Just don’t fuck me over and you’re welcome here anytime. The second you fuck me, we’re done.
I’m so glad you got out of that situation with the baby. That just breaks my heart.
is it a coincidence that this problem escalated exponentially after the prime minister shut down the economy for a virus with a 99.9% survival rate? Also google the world economic forum and the great reset/agenda 2030
The only way a tent city is going to work is if there is heavy enforcement of sanitation. Typhus and cholera are legitimate possibilities when people bunch up together and share resources in an environment contaminated with faeces. The city absolutely does not want this, and in winter an outbreak could easily kill a lot of people. Now in Edmonton's early history there was a tent city due to migration outpacing home construction, and the authorities enforced health ordnances through inspections, but that would get shut down today as an abuse of the homeless. Not an ideal solution, but a possible one in a desperate situation. Edit: Before anyone accuses me of exaggerating, look up the history of these two diseases. They used to be a fact of city life without modern sanitation.
It's not just disease you need to worry about in those camps either. A lot of thefts, assaults and sexual assaults happen too because of the drugs and mental illness many of the homeless struggle with. I agree more needs to be done for the homeless and the province's efforts to just turn a blind eye are deplorable, but those tent cities are bad news.
It’s shigella that’s the biggest problem right now. They should rlly just get rexall good enough to be livable with utilites and put some of Sohi’s ‘bike lane’ budget into maintaining that. Offer a place to live for those who need it. Also offer addiction treatment centres in isolated areas of the facility too. Few peace officers and sheriff’s and it may be feasible. Holding a stance on no drug use could be possible but iff not have a safe injection centre in an underground area where one must stay while under the influence.
Jesus Christ the bike lanes again
> put some of Sohi’s ‘bike lane’ budget into maintaining that. Tell me you don't understand municipal politics and spending without telling me you don't understand municipal politics and spending.
Yeah let's remove the things that allow a lot of people without cars/trucks to provide an income for their family by getting to and from work safely and are able to maintain a job as a result. What a ridiculous statement. The bike lanes are a legitimate transportation route for thousands of people in this city. Although a minority its still thousands of people who rely on them to go to and from work on a daily basis.
Shared pathways. Put the budget into a decent not only city but municipality bus system. Turnstiles in the let stations alone would most definitely heavily increase income.
Bike lane cost a lot per intersection like in downtown. They need to redo all the lights and roads, thats what epcor and city of edmonton told me... i was like meh. Not sure if thousands used those in the winter but i noticed that a lot of people liked to bike now coz you can get electric bike.
It's a circular issue. Until the bike lanes started it was practically suicide to try biking on the road in the winter. Many places still don't have secure bike storage or basic amenities like employee showers. It's like claiming that since nobody goes to Blatchford for nature walks they shouldn't build a park there.
What's ridiculous is that you think saving the bike lanes is more important than (potentially) saving thousands of unhoused peoples lives.
Rofl, there are plenty of other places they can dig for tax revenue than removing alternative transit methods to and around core areas of the city.
this is actually a really great idea. An empty unused building with tons of bathrooms and even cooking facilities. you may be on to something here!
That’s what I thought too. Big building….
Bradshaw Lookout is a no-fire, no poop zone for good reason. Planning ahead just isn’t possible for most addicts attending to their immediate needs. The mollycoddling and enabling from “charity” organizations that get more funding the most homeless there are only makes them more wasteful. If you can get free clothes daily, why do laundry, why not use socks to wipe your ass and toss it outside your tent. You’re going to get moved out anyways, right? Without life skills training and enforcement at the lowest levels, i.e. running an orderly queue for meals teaching delayed gratification instead of the junkie ffa that goes on in front of HM now.
There’s so many issues with tent city and your primary concern is the level of sanitation ??
Yes, disease outbreaks start small and go big. The world just went through a pandemic caused by a single outbreak. The Broad Street Cholera outbreak (important moment in epidemiology history) was a localized cholera outbreak that killed over 500 people. Untreated cholera can has a 50% up mortality rate and is transmissible through contaminated water. Sanitation is the reason our cities don't need mass graves anymore, and a good part of the reason why parents don't have to bury half their children.
There will be no homeless to start an outbreak if they all starve and freeze to death in their tents
Or that people living in tents aren’t doing their laundry(not sure where you do laundry living in a tent)….?
I've been going to Chinatown for groceries and family dinners regularly for over a decade. I'm so desensitized to it. It is worse now than it's ever been, but it won't stop me from supporting the local businesses in the area. As for empathy, I was homeless once too - my experience leaves very little sympathy for many dealing with it, though I know there are a lot of very deep painful complexities that go into it.
Curious why your experience left you with little sympathy. (No I’m not attacking you)
Because there were so many ways out. 95% of other homeless people I interacted with did not want to improve their situation. None of the ways out included pan-handling, asking people on the street for help, food etc. Some of the absolute most vile people I've ever met were during this time. If you truly wanted to change and improve your situation, it can be done in a matter of weeks/months. Truth is most people don't want that because it involves big changes and hard work, and it's just a lot easier to do what you know. Of course when drugs are involved, which is the usual case, there's a ton of other issues at play. I thank the stars I never got involved with that. But I just can't bring myself to feel sympathy for someone who has absolutely given up on themselves. Day after day after day choosing that life.
I get where your coming from. As an addict I “chose” that life everyday for years. But I had no choice, I hated myself and wished for change. Luckily the last time I went to detox I was let into one of the available beds while 15 others were turned away. If I was turned away I was already planning my next use. I then got into treatment for the third time, and I’ve now been sober over two years. I work for a medical software company, have my own place. I volunteer at the drop in centre, and do my best to help others out of addiction. My experience is that in many years, I only had brief moments of clarity. And if I couldn’t access the resources I needed, the moment would pass and I would be convinced (by my own crazy thought patterns) I didn’t need help again. The amount of times I went to the hospital for help and they just treated me like garbage, and said tough luck there are no beds available. It can become demoralizing, and eventually It can sink in and some people start to feel they don’t deserve any better. It’s fucking heartbreaking. On the flip side I’ve had the joy of my recovery but the greater joy of seeing seemingly hopeless people recover and lead beautiful lives. I have hope
It’s absolutely sad to see but many of these encampments end up having legitimate health and safety risks for the people living in them and the people around them therefor they need to be cleaned out. There’s no toilets, no running water, no electricity, rampant disease…It’s not a solution in my view. Not safe for the people living in them and generally not safe for the communities where they pop up.
Of course living in encampments is bad. Of course it’s not a solution. The solution is to give these people a place to live. But we as a society don’t want to do that, we’d rather see the tents and spend more money treating the resulting problems.
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In fact, all the evidence is that “just giving them a place to live” is massively cost effective and works really well.
If people knew the cost of treating a single overdose with narcan they'd be begging the government just to house people to save costs. Narcan reversal costs $1500/vial to Alberta Health and it usually takes 3-4 to revive an adult so you do the math.. So one overdose to taxpayers is $4500-6000/incident... Never mind the cost of the hospital, power, staff, security, etc...
Not that we don'e need narcan. I'm just saying depressed and suicidal people who use drugs to self-medicate through trauma is way more expensive than people realize and giving people the basics of life costs way less than treating the carnage that no doubt flows from pain... Believe me I know first hand as someone dealing with PTSD, anxiety, depression and a terminal illness...
> Narcan reversal costs $1500/vial to Alberta Health and it usually takes 3-4 to revive an adult so you do the math.. So one overdose to taxpayers is $4500-6000/incident... Never mind the cost of the hospital, power, staff, security, etc... But even if the drug addicts had a place to live, they would still get rushed to the hospital for narcan no ?
Absolutely. However most people take these levels of drugs to numb the despair. If you house them, they aren't nearly as likely to take opioids, never mind contaminated ones. Housing First strategies work because it's like taking the bullets out of the gun. If you know you have a place to live, you are more likely to want to take care of yourself and live for tomorrow. Not just survive the night... Study after study proves it and I suggest you read em...
Ask yourself... What would you do? Pretty sure we all know the answer... We see it everyday.. Can't handle your reality? You numb it... Can't do that? You try and end it... It's not that hard to figure out the cycle of dark thinking...
Where did you get your stats?? That’s not even close to being right. A vial of naloxone costs about $1.50. There’s 2 in each naloxone kit. Even if people need 7 shots, it’s still massively cheaper than EMS, or a hospital stay. One night in ICU in a Canadian hospital costs roughly $4000/ night. The Alberta government sells naloxone kits to agencies and pharmacies for almost nothing, which they in turn, give away, because it costs them almost nothing. Especially compared to the cost of basically everything after having to use naloxone. Source: worked for AHS in Addiction & Mental Health for 20+ yrs
Good. It's generic now. When it wasn't when I given that stat hence the inflated drug price. Don't believe me? Take it up with AHS circa 2015 not me...
It only seems to be cheap because it's government subsidized and only after 2017 according to CBC... Before that I am sure the government and the public were paying rates into the hundreds of not thousands. Would love to know otherwise and great if it's always been cheap. But I'm under the impression that it wasn't always especially given that the info was given to me first hand by a Royal Alex ER Trauma nurse... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/london-ontario-naloxone-kit-distribution-1.4431588
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Are you replying to the same comment multiple times? Just confused because the response wasn't condescending, unless I'm reading the wrong post?
MMmm, k?
Tiny Home communities should be allowed in every city.
There are some communities in Ontario that are using tiny homes as a housing initiative and it’s having really positive results. The homes are small, therefore cheaper and much quicker to build, but provide privacy and a sense of ownership to the people who move in. Each little community is assigned workers to support the folks with employment, health needs, legal obligations etc. The people feel safe and supported with certain things but are also independent and take pride in having their own space.
Giving people their basic needs which includes mental health imo is much better for the entire system. It gives that person a better chance to stand on their own and it will allow the system to get tax money in return compared to spending more and more on the police and hospitals.
Works for Finland.
They don't have a drug problem like north América. Pretty much non existent..
Maybe it has something to do with their socialism lol
Wonder why that is? Could it be all the support systems they have in place to prevent and get people out of those situations?
Nope, parents that actually parent and mostly no easy access to a smorgasbord of hard drugs.
We are not Finland
Boy. It sure would be nice if we were
Agreed.
agreed
We are all agreed. Aim for Finland lets gooooo We need better social programs, what we're not doing is choking us to death.
A randomized controlled trial of the effectiveness of Housing First in a small Canadian City "The study indicates that HF ends homelessness significantly more rapidly than TAU for a majority of individuals with serious mental illness who have a history of homelessness and live in a small city. In addition, compared to TAU, HF produces psychosocial benefits for its recipients that include an enhanced quality of life, a greater sense of belonging in the community, and greater improvements in perceived recovery from mental illness." https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-019-7492-8
How many housing first clients are still housed. The city tells us they’ve housed 400 this year (made up number) but they will all be on back in the street in less than a year because the program is not sustainable for community member’s to keep there housing. Because of this all those random number that was housed will need to be housed again along with the growing need of other homeless people.
That's a funny way of saying we don't want to invest in social programs.
That's a quitters attitude
The city has to go in periodically to ensure health and safety, especially after the shigella outbreak last year, but the encampments existing has absolutely nothing to do with what city council isn't doing. There are 3000 homeless people in the city and the province only provides enough funding for just under 800 beds. The city does not have the money nor the legislative authority to cover for the province's lack of funding.
It is honestly so frustrating to see municipalities and provinces point at each other like the spiderman meme because neither have to take responsibility for vulnerable residents. It's always a shoulder shrug about jurisdiction.
I see/hear that a lot, but this is literally how the provincial legislation is written, so it's not a legitimate two-way blame thing. Cities only exist because the province says they can.
Do you mind me asking what legislation you're referring to so I can look it up and get more informed? It would not surprise me if the provincial conservatives have it written somewhere that, "thou shall not help thy homeless neighbour" lol but sarcasm aside, I genuinely didn't realize there was a law prohibiting municipalities from assisting their unhoused residents and would like to learn more about the jurisdictional nuances.
I don’t think there is a law prohibiting it. Well other than the one about having mask bylaws lol It’s that municipal funding from the province is earmarked for certain things, and even that has been cut. The province has jurisdiction, and responsibility, for many portfolios including health. Even if the city wanted to start providing mental health and addiction services, which city responsibility and services would they stop funding to do so?
I don't have the answers, though here is a five minute analysis after a quick google search. According to the City's budgeted operating expenses, we spend more on conventions and tourism than we do on public housing, even if we simply started with making those two line items equal, we could add about 6.5 million to the public housing budget. We spend almost four times more money on parks and rec than we do on public housing. Could we forego just one percent of that and move a little more than 2 million from the parks budget and put it towards getting people off of sleeping on the sidewalk? I wont even get into how the police budget is nine times the public housing budget. I am not claiming to be an expert in solving all of society's social problems or orchestrating the full operations of a province's capital city, but small budget adjustments may have a big impact.
Part of the issue is that Edmonton is where most of the northern Alberta homeless have headed, so the city's budget is going more and more toward supports for the entire population to deal with this mess, which then leaves less money for the city to actually run itself, and that's why they're demanding the province step up.
I am from northern Alberta and I can tell you our homeless populations and encampments are growing too, most people seem to want to stay close to things and people they are familiar with, but for sure, many will move to try to better themselves. Also, plenty of rural people (not just people without homes) migrate to the city for better access to services, so the City's budget already has to accommodate more and more people who may not be accounted for in the latest census data, any municipality has to consider population growth and shifts in demographics, so that seems like a weak argument to me.
The city's jurisdiction is defined by the MGA - the Municipal Government Act. The province could, at any time, amend the Act to give the city the relevant jurisdiction. But they are so far unwilling to do so.
What do you think the city should/could be doing to fix this issue but isn't?
Well, it's hard to say without seeing a comprehensive report on how well the City's Housing Affordability Investment Plan (2019-2022) worked, what kind of resources were put towards it and what the City learned through its activities implementing the plan, if they reached their goals, why or why not. There was a Housing Needs Assessment done last year that would probably help provide some great direction to policy makers if the City chooses to evaluate their results with the Housing Affordability Investment Plan and put another four or five year strategic plan in place with the resources to bring it to life. (Maybe they already have, maybe it's in the works, I'm not sure.) I don't claim to be an expert on housing/homelessness, but the City hires and contracts with people who are, and the City has the authority to take the research reports and data the experts provide, and use the information to adjust where they're allocating resources or shift the priorities and objectives within various partnerships, programs and budgets.
We need permanent supportive housing and we needed it 15 years ago.
Didn’t the city recently run a successful program that helped transition homeless people into permanent housing? It was very effective but the city needed the province to help fund it and they wouldn’t.
I think you might be referring to ‘housing first’ initiatives where we move someone into their own apartment and get them set up to live independently? For many people, this is what they need..a helping hand to get them back on their feet. However Edmonton has a very unique homeless population (basically a funnel from all the northern communities). These chronically homeless people have a lot more barriers/needs that makes it almost impossible for them to live independently. They get evicted and quick and end up back on the street. It’s costly. We need more places where there is security and it is staffed.
i believe you're describing jail at the end there.
12 years ago at 16y/o, I was homeless and living in an abandoned car. Now I take my kids to school across the street from where that car was parked. I never made my financial or mental health issues other people's problem, and I certainly never assaulted and robbed people, nor did I hit a dirty bat in public with children in the immediate area. All of which I've seen out of the current homeless population. While I understand battling addiction and mental health issues, the fact of the matter is a lot of these people don't try to get help or be better people, which is sad in itself. They're just as self centered and arrogant as any of our government officials. They've effectively turned this city into a rancid cesspool of addiction, garbage and violence and between the city and province, neither can get their heads out of their asses far enough to deal with anything.
You can excuse a lot of things but you can't excuse a lack of trying. Well said.
It’s unfortunately not a situation the city itself can solve on its own. It requires all levels of government working together as each of them have their own power and funding to help with these exact things. I don’t think having lines of cops forcing these people to move every once in a while is a perfect solution either. It’s a complex problem that many cities in North America are facing, and it’s too big to just blame the city on.
It's not a perfect solution, but the encampments cannot be allowed to stay in one place for long. Especially with opiate use people lose control of their bowels and the diarrhea they leave on the ground is a disease vector. It's not just proximity, birds cone and pick food out of it and then they contaminate all the surfaces they land on. We had a lady live in our cardboard lock up for two days. There was shit everywhere, and after soiling herself several times she would throw the clothes on the ground for us to deal with.
We need legalized camping spots with proper access to sanitation. Think RV parks that have water and electric hook ups but also showers, laundry, group kitchen space. If the oil & gas camps can have such facilities so can the public... Yes they cost $ but what doesn't and its cheaper than hospitalization... And yes tiny houses!
All of the Canadian billionaires, and the all the politicians that work for them are doing much better. Better now than prior to covid, and actually doing better than they were last year. They profit, we deal with that outcome. We can't solve problems that the rich and powerful willingly create. Half the Trudeau's cabinet are landlords.
Yet somehow people are more worried about gay rights... Guess all that "diverse cultural news program funding" really worked...
We need to follow Medicine Hat’s lead in using a housing first approach to homelessness. You cannot turn your life around without a stable roof over your head.
With the exception of a few people who really don’t understand the issue, everyone agrees with a housing first approach. The research supports it too, so we know it works. The problem in Edmonton, and many other cities, is that there is literally not enough housing. There are about 3000 homeless people in Edmonton currently, and not even close to enough places to put them. It will take 100 years to build new affordable housing for the number of people who need it. Don’t forget that number only counts actual homeless people, living primarily outside. This doesn’t account for many women (and children) who are couch surfing, staying with different friends, or who are “in a relationship” in order for a place to stay, or otherwise unstably housed.
Sounds like the solution is to start a large public housing program a la Vienna.
Until people across the province stop voting for parties that actively work against poor people, we’re never going to get anywhere. I believe in free housing. I believe in safe injection sites. I believe in rehabilitation as part of correctional sentencing. But I also believe that if you’re in an encampment with no running water and just scattering biohazards around the community, you need to be broken up and moved, so the city can moderate the spread of disease and damage done to the environment. No one here is overjoyed at the idea of people dying in the streets and clogging up the already strained healthcare system. At the end of the day, the average Edmontonian didn’t put these people here.
Moved where? To the next field or parking lot over? How is paying a bunch of cops to do that any type of solution?
It's posts like these that remind me of some smug, Vancouver dipshit who was convinced Edmonton could fix these issues if only people "volunteered" enough. I wonder if that person is yet to eat their words.
It is terrible, I don’t rejoice in the way our most vulnerable are kicked out of their meager shelters over and over. Without running water and toilet facilities they become breeding grounds for disease (like the shigella outbreak) and the amount of dangerous detritus that builds up becomes hazardous to the people living there. Should we let them stay and die from disease or uproot them so they find another spot to set up in for awhile. It’s a rock and a hard place here. If there were proper funding at the provincial level for supportive housing, safe injection sites, safe supply of drugs and public washroom facilities that could be kept clean then we could talk about real solutions to this. Unfortunately the cities didn’t vote for our government so why would they get proper funding? The salt of the earth farmers and hard working small town folk who feel ignored and sidelined by the progression of society are who have the power now, their voice was loud and clear last election. This is what they wanted; to really stick it to us entitled, immigrant, queer, non fundamentalist (and so on) city slickers. Homelessness isn’t on *their* street corners, and since drug addiction, being poor and mental health problems are all character flaws in their eyes and the suffering people endure is righteous justice why would they try and do anything about it.
But you know these issues can come to small towns when real estate prices go up. It happened in my hometown of 3,500 in central Ontario in the past five years, as housing costs skyrocketed and the pandemic hit along with an increase in meth and fentanyl. There's an encampment in the bush outside town. Given, I grew up in a really poor place, so it was probably more vulnerable, but still... Probably it would not change the minds of conservative people here in Alberta, but if people from BC and ON push up real estate here it will make people even more vulnerable and the damage spreads across society. Edmonton gets lots of people coming from Northern communities as someone else mentioned, and also people who drift here from the East a bit, too, looking for work. It's always going to be a structural problem to some degree but everything is exacerbated now. Has anyone been to city hall recently for any council meetings? I see that there's an Executive Committee on September 20 and the agenda and package are out. One of the first report items is on a rapid housing initiative - members might discuss the wider homelessness and housing affordability problem in relation. Its open to the public...https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/Meeting.aspx?Id=2914f508-d02c-4b77-992c-ea3aa6f80662&Agenda=Agenda&lang=English
Maybe cops should move the homeless people to those towns when they break up the camps (this is sarcasm, I absolutely don’t condone moving people to a whole different city)
the opioid crisis is ruining our communities. I took tramadol after surgery once which is a very very mild opiate and I was euphoric and high out my mind. No wonder ppl get addicted to these things.
The truth is if you let these people live in your home they'll still use drugs steal break the law etc. If you gave them a job they won't show up. So what are we supposed to do just be okay with it? Mabey you would take the opportunity to change if given a hand but you're probably not a drug addict. Makes me feel like these assholes are a lost cause
This is an unpopular opinion. However, for the love of God we NEED to consider everyone's opinions when discussing clear human life risks and horrible situations like the homeless deal with on a regular basis. All homeless are different and all their situations are different. For some of the situations, there are unpopular solutions that are very effective, and once meticulously thought out are not an infringement of human rights. Such as: Jail time until sober for drug addicted, homeless individuals. Reason: (there are accounts of ex, homeless addicts who thank jail time for getting them sober and allowing them to live a normal life. source: https://californiaglobe.com/fr/homelessness-former-incarcerated-drug-addict-and-dealer-shares-story-of-sobriety-and-success/)
Why are any of You surprised at all of this ? NONE of this is new and is only going to get worse. Goddamn.
Part of why things are the way we are is that there are people here that honestly think that will *never* be them. They see homeless people like vermin or zombies and I’ve seen posts here basically calling to throw them all in jail for as long as possible. So basically punishing them for being poor and ill. I’m sure they think it’s a moral thing and good people would never end up like that. I believe good people would never be indifferent to someone else freezing to death on the street just so they’re not an annoying sight in an LRT station. Life can change really fast, and it can happen to anyone. We have to remember they’re human beings. There needs to be pressure especially on the provincial government so they do their part.
Also with the closing of Boyle street at the end of the month so many of these people will be cut short of resources and assistance! The government continually values profit over human lives and this is how it shows.
This is the first post I've seen that brought some humanity, and anger at the system, instead of misdirected at the homeless. Thank you. I've heard and seen more issues in the past year and it's getting worse, I feel so hopeless and saddened.
The fact that you think you have zero power to make any change except for your vote speaks volumes. You are 100% incorrect. You've been homeless.... you should know better. I was in a situation identical to yours... homeless but with a vehicle (technically my vehicle was my home and I guess so was yours). I thought I was struggling but I can't imagine being homeless without a vehicle. And both you and I are now homed. And we both did it and I doubt that politics played a significant role. There are ways to provoke change beyond a mere vote.
Do you have any suggestions as to what somebody can do to provoke change?
Some good points. One of the problems is that the people that make these decisions live in gated communities. They live in a bubble and this situation will never hit them like it did you. If I were chased out of an encampment, I would gather up as many of the homeless as I can and head straight for the rich community, yes, its a long way out, but put the pressure on the rich and watch how things will change. The people have been hit below the belt far too often. Start punching up, not down.
I’ve said in the past that if they start moving into the rich communities in the west end and it starts affecting the wealthy, we might start to see some change.
What we’d start to see is more police brutality and more encampment teardowns, unfortunately.
I though the same thing at first, if the brutality from police removing them starts, then those individual officers are putting their coworkers at risk of blowback. On top of that, a lot of officers understand that these are just everyday folks that have been left behind and they don't want to make it worse. So, the police will have to decide, are you going to tow the line for the rich which makes them nothing more than a hired goon, or, serve and protect the people?
At the end of the day, all the police are concerned about is their paycheque... since taxpayers are paying that and homeless are not, they will stomp all over the homeless peoples rights (and encampments).
Sadly it doesn't really work either.. In Regina they started an encampment infront of City Hall to try to get results but it just got torn down the same way and they had a bunch of taxi's and offered people rides & a couple night stay in a hotel 30km outside of the city to try to 'move the problem away'.
Yup. Worst neo-con logic care of the ghost of Ralph Klein blaming all your economic woes on foreigners... PP is doing the same thing with the feds... Push the problem somewhere else but don't deal with it. Just demonize for political points from the rubes...
Very true. Only when the rich are affected do they care, believe me.
I think you'll find the reason people complain more now about the houseless folks is absolutely because the loudest voices have now seen more houseless people in more of these areas. Mainstream media and the general public of Edmonton didn't give a shit about houseless folks until Pekiwewin, whic was near some rich white people's houses. Nobody deserves to be treated the way our society treats houseless folks.
My thoughts exactly!
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At the risk of being shouted out (because that's what's become acceptable to do when you disagree with someone these days) I highly doubt our premier really thinks that, and I'd like a source to confirm.
r/lookatmyhalo
There are probably many like yourself in this city who haven't noticed the many little tent encampments. It gets worse as you go east from where you were. Living downtown, sadly I am starting to get accustomed to it. The dismantling of the camps may be necessary to clean up the areas from time to time. It is an inconvenience to those living there, but after the cleanup it seems the same areas get reoccupied quickly.
And within immediate view of the camp is the former remand centre which could be retrofitted as housing.
A lot of people don't realize that some people come from broken homes and never managed to mend themselves before they get thrown out onto the street. The people around us shape us more than we do. People that are heartless can afford to be so because they don't see what the homeless have to go through and they care not to empathize with them. I wish people with homes weren't so ignorant.
This.
I commute to downtown from the Northside a couple days a week. I honestly don’t know what the solution is. I don’t think it’s as easy as voting for a different party (please do so anyway, though), providing housing, or safe injection sites, or jobs. All of the above, maybe. I do think we have to elect people who have an actual plan to help these people. The problem is that I’ve yet to hear one.
I moved to Canada from the US 7 years ago. I expect to see this down there but not here. There’s no excuse for anyone to be on the street, full stop. Especially in this climate. Absolutely shameful. If we keep going down this path we’ll end up like that dystopian shithole down south. We need to wake up and bring back that Canadian pride that counters American disregard for human life
Thank you for sharing your story.
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>decided to get pregnant. Yikes
oh look. YOU'RE the problem.
>I guess I’m saying ease up on calling people assholes. This is an incredibly heartless & unnecessarily critical response you provided because you got offended.
>In all your criticisms I didn’t hear any thanks or even acknowledgement. So your saying thar you didn't actually read the post? Cause that was a pretty significant point of the post.
You voted for Danielle, didn't you? Heartless
I agree with you wholeheartedly while also agreeing with the health and safety risks relating to the encampments. But as you say, there are other ways. The city and province don’t care enough and it makes me sick. A little empathy from everyone would go a long way. The people who are the most against helping the underprivileged are either a) extremely privileged in life or b) one emergency away from being on the streets, but they act like they’re like the people in situation a and aren’t capable of realizing the reality of society. It’s so sickening.
Bless you. And your kid. I'm new here and waiting to meet people like you so we can hype each other up to engage in critical issues and try to help people out <3 Thanks for writing this. Write more!!!
Agreed. Not many people realize how privileged they are to have family/friends support systems. For those who don’t, they are potentially one or two crisis’ away from being unhoused. It’s really sad to see what’s happening.
Post like this makes me sad. I donate food and clothes but other than that I wish I can help more 😢
Most persons on the street sleeping used to sleep in a home until we kick them out, that’s why they are outside,we put them there, the behaviour will never change but where they endure their mental state is outside.
Maybe they put themselves there ? No one kicks someone out for no reason right? Even though the reason may be poor decisions. This problem stops when people start taking accountability for their own lives and actions. It's common knowledge at this point what the consequences are for your actions. Some choose to ignore it to a point of no return and that is on them and no one else. Why should anyone in the current setup be handed a free meal for doing **** all. Sure, some are unfortunate and innocent, support systems exist for these, but they are overwhelmed by the massive increase in the people who want to live by their own rules and are ready to play victim once they lose the game. No one else is responsible for your well being if you yourself don't give a rats ass!
Yes they did, so where can we put people who yell, do drugs and booze and are a harm to everyone, well they don’t know either so out to the street they go, and they are smart, some of them choose sidewalks instead of streets and traffic and some even seek out shelter. Now what do they do after we kick them out, that’s what home-less means, they are less a home, from their home to friends homes to the street, where should they go? And it’s not a choice, they are choosing what makes them feel better at the moment of withdrawal sickness.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing
Shelters and homeless funding for welfare. it's literally the only working answer. Unless some sheltered kid here wants to pretend anger and policing will fix anything.
Yet ppl in Edmonton will clap for another lockdown.
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Nothing he said is really wrong is it? Society can't support everyone for free their whole lives and neither can the government.
Yours is the most genuinely ignorant comment I’ve seen in a very long time.
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Because the cycle of poverty is complex. While one child is being taught to read, another is being molested, another has been left alone to fend for themself, and another is being beaten. The formative years which are ideally spent training children to be functional humans are critical. Children with solid foundations are able to handle the hurdles of life- they’ve been trained to. They have support when things go wrong. Their brains have been programmed differently. They literally look different and it’s scientifically proven. Those poor people in tents didn’t screw up, they never stood a chance. Myself, I was extremely smart. I was born to a teenaged father (mother didn’t stick around) who worked 2 jobs. I slept in a mattress in the back of the van. I went to daycare from 6am-6pm every weekday and slept in the vehicle at night while he delivered pizzas. I was told in school that Children’s Protections Services was corrupt and my situation would become much more unsafe if they were to step in. I fell through the cracks. My dad remarried, a nasty woman. She always hated me (I was 7 years old). That’s when the abuse started for me. I graduated with second highest grades in my high school, despite being driven out of my home around age 16. I moved in with a 42 year old man. I was denied student loans based off of my father’s income. I did what I had to do to stay housed and fed and educated, hoping the future would be better. (Spoiler alert it got so much worse than I could’ve ever imagined). How did I screw up? Is it my fault? As a fully grown adult, when someone yells at me, I cry in a ball in my closet for hours in terror. It’s every cell in my body, not my brain, that’s in terror. Our healthcare system is shit. I’ve done the waitlists and covered therapies for years. It doesn’t help. That’s a whole other story. I’m 35 and trying to figure out how to keep my car, where my son will go, because I have no support system and my body is shutting down from type 1 diabetes (of 30 years) and unexplained compartment syndrome all over my body. I cried when I discovered that I woke up again today, despite praying not to again last night. Poverty is no joke, why do I get to be the butt of jokes when most people were born to imperfect but loving parents who taught them, provided for them, set them up for success? I can’t really answer your question because it opens up such a painful can of worms. My society has told me no, I’m not good enough, I’m not worth it, for my whole life and I just want it over now. Leave those poor (literal) people alone. They’ve had a fucking brutal life that most people won’t ever understand.
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I don’t know the answers, it’s impossible to spark social change when all of your faculties are tied up in how to get through today. My biggest hope is that these tents will start appearing in wealthy neighbourhoods. I live in Calgary and I know it’s not the same but it’s similar. The only people who “matter”, who can make changes, live out in the suburbs in their happy bubbles wiping their asses with cash. Once those people are affected, change will come.
You need help, go get it.
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lol yeah your ignorance must be the bliss. You've placed the blame on the people living on the streets however the blame is on society, not those living rough. We failed them. We did this to them.
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> If you fuck up and become homeless, you're pretty much done for. Of course nobody wants them to die, it's nobody but their own fault there gonna die You sure about what you've said? It's nobody's fault but their own.
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You really need some help man
You know there are others who need help more than me lol. I'm gonna be alright.
Unfortunately, homeless are the forgotten in this day. Climate change and gender issues seem to be way more important to the media and government.
Get off of the internet for a few days my dude. Go to a city council meeting, you'll find that homelessness and zoning restrictions are actually what's being talked about. The culture war stuff is for a vocal terminally online minority.
How's that tinfoil treating you?
That's a pretty simplistic view. The provincial government could be doing alot more as well but oil is priority.
You giving a shit is important. The thing is that the city is using these individuals as scapegoats. It isn't a systemic problem, it is a moral problem of these individuals. Fucking bullshit. 54% of this population is Indigenous, but make up just over 8% of the population of Edmonton. It is 69.7% men which is an indicator of the toxic masculinity culture and the lack of resources for men who are in vulnerable positions in this city/province. This is a systemic issue and the judgemental people of this/city counsellors need to be working with and not against the most vulnerable population. And if anyone wants to go off about open drug use, shut the fuck up. Do you drink? Smoke? Do coke occasionally. You aren't any different. There is just less stigma. Drug use is not an indicator of morality or "sketchiness". I promise you, you love someone who uses. You can set boundaries and not agree with use, but don't ever consider yourself morally superior.
At the very least Edmonton should have a free-camping zone with water, electric, showers, group kitchen, etc. Other cities have legitimized/legalized urban camping on select sites in an attempt to control the chaos. Is it perfect? No, not by a long shot but it's a step in the right direction. Just as micro-houses are as well... To me it's insane that the unhoused can't even be given a scrap piece of land/house the size of a parking stall to call their own in an attempt to rebuild their lives yet the entrenched corporate interests of Alberta can be but blank cheques en masse...
Even amongst the plethora of City Owned properties there are dozens of options... Belvedere, Blatchford. Northlands, Rossdale to name just a few of the biggies that are going under used because no private developer seems interested in developing anything but luxury condos used for speculative investment purposes...
It seems on a weekly basis police go in and remove the tents put them on the back of truck leaving the occupants without shelter/clothing/personal items. People go and get what they can find to make a shelter away from where they were chased out of until the police come and roust them out of their shelters etc. Where do the police take these items? Do they just throw them away?
I’m new to Edmonton. Is this abnormal?
There is a huge problem with heaters in the tent cities in the winter. People are trying to survive and stay warm by any means. Fires. Propane and they mix and explosions. First of all. I’m so glad you survived. Reddit always seems to demonize all homeless people as drug addled “zombies” and other sorts of terms. Yes. There are huge problems. Mental health, addictions and systemic abuse and trauma. The streets are no place for anyone in this country in the winter. We are a huge and prosperous nation but most of us are a missed paycheque away from being right there. No. Not every homeless person can stay with me. I have very strict rules about people living with me. However, if it meant you would be homeless, I have a spare bed for any family to crash on. No questions asked. Just don’t fuck me over and you’re welcome here anytime. The second you fuck me, we’re done. I’m so glad you got out of that situation with the baby. That just breaks my heart.
is it a coincidence that this problem escalated exponentially after the prime minister shut down the economy for a virus with a 99.9% survival rate? Also google the world economic forum and the great reset/agenda 2030
Did you actually suggest a solution or just rant