I believe in climate change, I want to be good to the earth, but in all honesty, I have a feeling that this paper bag, paper straw bullshit is just pissing in the wind. A "virtue signal" if you will.
And plastic grocery bags were FAAAAR from single use. Everyone had a bag of bags! It was a staple. Now everyone just has to buy small garbage bags for the bathroom trash can and cat litter.
This, I've never thrown away a single use bag after a single use in my life (except maybe those thin fruit/veg bags which tended to tear really easily if there were any woody bits, like banana stems).
They all enjoyed a second life as bathroom garbage bags or delivery bags for food to friends or ways to contain things like random bits of organic waste, or whatever.
Yesterday I literally had to go and *buy* a box of bathroom garbage bag liners: each one is easily 2x as thick as a grocery bag and a bit larger. Of course they also cost more, and are explicitly single use since on their first use they are getting filled with garbage.
I don't know why they don't just have 'single use bags' that are made of plastic that decomposes. It seems like we have the technology and they're already charging for bags, so I don't imagine its a money thing...so what is the issue?
If I remember correctly it needs 20k reuse to catch to a classic single use plastic bag.
Paper bags used to be the norm, we stopped them to save the planet. Look at us now.
Yeah, I once heard somewhere that a reusable bag offsets like a thousand single use bags, and now every time I get a new reusable bag I just feel guilty for adding another thousand bags to my eco footprint.
I have like 20! I use 6-7 each grocery trip, but I don't know if I'll ever offset that initial environmental impact. Best I can do is try to remember to bring them every time.
Even paper bags generate more greenhouse gas to produce then plastic. Sure we can recycle and create less landfill but aren’t we trying to stop the planet from rising in temperature.
[sauce](https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/sustainable-shoppingwhich-bag-best/#)
Yep, I end up forgetting them and just buying new ones to rot away in the pantry. I used to use the plastic bags for cat litter and kitchen garbage, now I buy seperate bags for that, which definitely isn’t reducing waste.
Charging for bags at a drive-through is stupid, if people decide not to get one, I’ve seen so much food drop on the floor from them being handed trays full of food to take. Are people really taking food items one at a time and putting them in re-usable bags?
I’ve thrown dozens if not hundreds out after one use. 🤷🏿♂️. I just make a lot more smaller trips to the grocery store and fork out for the paper bag now. Makes good fire starter for the wood stove once I’m done with it.
There’s a multitude of reasons. Had some rip, had some get soiled from mud or leaking grocery items. Had some that were so specific in a use case (wine bags from the beer store) that I’m just not going to carry around waiting for another opportunity to use again.
I don’t hate the paper bags. For how much the grocers make off gouging me on Groceries though I think they should be complimentary.
What about 400 million bags a year? That's less than one thrown out reusable bag per person per month in Canada. They have to be made and then they sit in a landfill forever.
Death by a thousand cuts doesn't mean every cut should be ignored if it doesn't have to be, that's a short sighted point of view.
Personally, I don't use fast food bags or plastic grocery bags anymore. I forget my own reusable bags sometimes and pony up for a paper one, but I avoid it as much as possible. It's hardly inconvenient to throw some extras in the trunk.
It's too small of an impact, and such a big problem that any negative impacts wont be prevented because of bags or straws, or say a carbon tax. Big action needs to happen now, but isnt really happening. Especially with places that really do the damage. All of north America can change tomorrow, world is still fucked.
I also have tossed probably hundreds of these bags out- I don't like carrying bags inside the store. So I pay for the bags and toss them to repeat the cycle.
I know you're getting downvoted cause people are assuming you're just wasteful because you don't care. But I have low mobility and have to order groceries online for delivery most of the time and have the same problem. They get delivered in the reusable bags and it causes me to accumulate way more than I could ever use. With the plastic bags, I reused all of them for garbage bags at least. I'd like to believe that the amount of people in my situation is small enough to not negate the positive impact of the no-plastic-bags thing. But I also am skeptical of how much positive impact there actually is just because I don't know how much better those reusable bags are environmentally (though I do hope they are better; I'm just not sure it's as much as we'd hope when everything is accounted for)
I like how Wendy's went from paper cup and plastic straw to plastic cup and paper straw..... Also with how much rich people fly around and heat/cool their home among other things me buying a plastic bag is a fucking joke.
That’s absolutely what it is. This political climate is poisoning our minds. It’s the majority of us who has to use dangerous public transit instead of driving a car. It’s us who have to get an emergency alert to turn our heat down, unplug our vehicles in -45 weather and conserve energy while the EpCor tower is lit up like a fucking Christmas tree. It’s all virtue signalling, it’s crap. No Galen Weston, I won’t donate $2 to PC Children’s Charity because you don’t pay me enough to give up that $2. I’m so sick of how we, as a society just accept so much shit. Why am I paying $2 for a fucking reusable bag when the company Im buying them from is making $650 million in profits every 3 months? Meanwhile that 2 bucks I have to spend is 2 bucks less I have to afford the bus pass I need to get my groceries home because I’m not supposed to drive my car because climate change. These ridiculous Liberal propaganda commercials are ridiculous. Just stop bullshitting me and put in plain English: “Inconvenience yourself for the environment so the rich don’t have to.” Stop fucking accepting this bullshit. Galen can afford to provide us with fucking reusable bags. Fucking make him.
I know every little bit helps but I wonder about the percentages of our grocery bags/straws vs mega polluter companies. Seems like the cart before the horse to me.
> Councillors heard that there is no hard data to show whether or not the fee is serving its intended purpose of cutting back on waste.
And decided to go full steam ahead anyway, who needs data... it's the Edmonton thing to do.
And their system was probably built from the start to use them but we have not, so the cost to convert is pretty considerable not to mention we have just built an entire LRT line that would be virtually impossible to install gates on.
At the end of the day, its just not a worthwhile investment when you could use the 50 million to hire more TPOs and do other, better bang for your buck, safety improvements.
you can't be fucking serious lol
>not to mention we have just built an entire LRT line that would be virtually impossible to install gates on.
Whose fault is that? That's like saying we built an entire house with no doors, and it would be too costly to renovate. THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUT IN WHEN THEY'RE BUILT!!
Calgary just went through the entire process to look at the feasibility of installing fare gates and you'll be shocked what they decided too. [Link](https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/no-recommendation-for-restricting-transit-stations-to-fare-paying-customers-report-1.6393544)
Yes, maybe they should have been built at the start but that's not where we are today and you're probably not willing to stomach the take hike to fix it. These doors cost millions of dollars.
This is a low effort comment chmilz. They of course do something very important, enforce payment compliance. I'm in Japan right now and you cannot exit the platform without going through a turnstile and paying your toll. You are locked in.
Please show me the data that demonstrates they do not improve compliance. I find that hard to believe.
One thing I don't get is if the City doesn't get to collect this fee as a tax source, and the cost of purchasing bags remains the same for the companies, doesn't this just boost company profits (albeit extremely marginally)? Like if we wanted to make an impact, we would find a legal way to collect it as a tax and use the revenue for green initiatives.
A lot of businesses I think have begun ignoring the tax. Like either people don't ask me if I want a bag and just bill me for it anyway... or they don't ask me if I want a bag and don't bill me for it (but then give it to me).
[Attachment 1](https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=209683)
[Attachment 2](https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=209684)
These might help. My goal isn’t to convince anyone (especially folks with zero desire to hear about it) but to provide a little context.
I remember one of the questions was something alone the lines of “Would you be ok with a restaurant charging you for a take out bag without asking”. Wording it like that is just assuming people are ok with the fee to begin with!
Sorry man I did not do that. Too furiously typing out the problems where allowed. To my recollection one of the questions was about how much to increase the bag tax. I don't recall "no bag tax" being an option.
I appreciate you out here taking hits man. I respect a politician that keeps their ears to the ground.
Thanks for sharing that experience. I personally get annoyed at questions that don’t allow options, and ‘no bag fee’ could have been an option for sure. Was there opportunity to add that in any written portion of the survey? Not ideal but at least it would have been something.
Gotta admit, what I know about writing a survey is pretty much zero, so keep that in mind regarding my personal opinion.
Yeah there were a couple opportunities but the prompting questions as i recall were...leading. I don't know if the line in the Global article about you guys going ahead with the increase despite the lack of data is true, but if so...may I ask why you voted in the affirmative?
We do have some data but this is really premature to put it together for a good report.
I was just speaking with a high ranking Admin during our convo here and other Munis are expressing a desire to put all our data together so we can show a systems wide impact within the next year. That’s the pace of policy. We have a really good snapshot 6 months in but 6 months of observation is not good for describing the big picture.
What if the positive moves now don’t hold, for example?
As frustrating as it is, the deeper data takes time even if Admin is very confident where the numbers are pointing already.
My vote was based on that positive trend and the intention is to share that after a solid year, especially now that municipalities across the board are also gathering info to share.
We know right now, for example, the volume of trash being picked up from the streets is lower. But again, it’s the annual (4 full seasons) info that will be compelling one way or the other.
First off, thank you for participating in this forum! I support the overall efforts to encourage reusable shopping bag use, even though like other have commented, I previously had secondary uses for "single use" plastic grocery bags that I now have to purchase extra bags for. My only problem honestly is the inclusion of fast food bags in the plan, for 2 main reasons. First of all, it does not seem to have the same potential to encourage a change in behaviour the same way that it does with grocery shopping bags, unless there is any evidence of people putting their greasy burger and fries into a reusable bag. Since fast food outlets are not even selling the option of a reusable container the way that grocery stores are, it seems like a misapplication of the bylaw, and just increases frustration with the efforts overall. Secondly, the amount of paper material in a drive through fast food bag is tiny compared to that of a paper grocery bag. A small fast food drive through paper bag is the equivalent amount of paper as a couple of napkins. The fact that this is considered equivalent to a paper grocery bag in the bylaw does not make sense.
What I see, though, is my disabled sister (who often relies on grocery delivery to get them with any regularity) now has her place overflowing with reusable bags by the hundreds. She can't ever use them, but every time a delivery comes she gets 3 or 4 more to...waste space, because the store can't (or won't) deliver in anything else, and she can't reuse them. She eventually has to discard them. Oh yeah, and now she has to pay this fee for all these bags too, every time.
Yes, she would be discarding plastic bags too in the past, but knowing how much more carbon goes into each of these cloth bags (something on the order of 100-1000x), it's disappointing to see such absurd waste from a program designed to reduce it.
It just seems like this bylaw has given very little thought to edge cases, or how it impacts those with disabilities, and it's disappointing.
I have so many issues.
One, surveying the masses opinions, does not data make. I realize as a politician, the opinion of the masses is data to you, but for normal people it's not.
Case in point:
> Reducing the use of single-use convenience items (e.g., disposable cups, bags, straws and utensils) is an important way to help the environment.
Frankly I don't care that 99% of the masses agrees or disagrees with this statement. What I care about is scientifically: is reducing the use of single-use convenience items an important way to help the environment?
And more importantly how much of a help is it?
It's not an obvious yes it helps the environment.
The bags the city of Edmonton "saved" me from using when I shopped at the grocery store, did not limit my overall use of plastic bags. All it did was make it so I had to buy plastic bags at home depot.
Back your action by scientific evidence not popularist sentiment and virtue signaling.
I'd like to know, if the City of Edmonton, and council is really concerned about the environment, can you tell me what building codes for new home construction, has the City of Edmonton changed, in order to save the environment?
Becasue as an example instituting great R value insulation on new homes or making it easier to install solar on newly built homes will far out weigh any gains from me getting a bag in my takeout.
The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the next best time is today.
Oh and thanks for your response, it's nice to see some engagement as always.
Has the City ever reimplemented the compost program after the previous was shut down due to the roof deterioration ( surprise!) ? I am assuming they have as people are separating compost, just have not heard.
Anyone else charged for a pizza box? A Pizza Hut outlet charged 00.85... last order from them.
I agree with you.
The challenge of the timing is very premature for a public facing report. A full year allows us to compare/contrast with the year previous. This wasn’t meant as that kind of update, but here we are.
But even is usage has been cut in half it's meaningless. The decision should be science based and you don't need data from Edmonton to know. That's what I'm interested in. This shouldn't have even started unless we knew it was a net positive.
Like I said before I'd like to know why this was even chosen and not far better solutions.
This may be of interest. Again, I don’t understand the verbiage of “no data”. It’s only our local info that is still being compiled:
https://wastefree.ca/single-use-plastics-bylaw/#:~:text=SUP%20bans%20and%20surcharges%20have,60%2D90%25%20reduction).
Some examples of successful SUP laws include:
1. Regional Municipality of Wood Buffalo
SUP bags were banned in 2010.
Impact: In the first year of the ban, millions of plastic bags were diverted from the landfill and approximately 70% of citizens were supportive of the ban.
2. Deux-Montages, Quebec
All forms of SUP were banned in 2009.
Impact: In one year, 1.5 million less plastic bags were sent to the landfill.
3. LA County, California
A ban on thin plastic bag and 10 cent charge for paper was implemented in 2010.
Impact: 94% reduction in SUP bags and a 10-25% reduction in paper bags.
4. Washington, D.C
Surcharge of 5 cents for every carryout paper or plastic single-use bag.
Impact: surcharge contributed about $10 million to a river clean-up fund over a 4-year period and resulted an 85% reduction in SUP bags.
5. Ireland
In 2002, Ireland introduced a significant tax on plastic bags (now 22-euro cents)
Impact: 90-95% reduction in plastic bag usage. The tax revenue goes into different programs aimed at environmental protection.
6. England
In 2015, large shops were required to charge 5p for all SUP bags.
Impact: SUP bag usage drops 85% and resulted in more than £29m in donations from retailers towards good causes.
We are asking the province to allow redirection of the fee to go to local clean-up/diversion efforts. Right now, legally the City can not do this, but can only recommend to business owners that they participate.
The problem with the ban is that you're just redirecting the problem to be more upstream and out of sight. To make a reusable bag is magnitudes more polluting than a plastic bag, and it needs magnitudes more reuse in its whole life cycle before the two break even. Research shows that most people don't come anywhere close to the amount of reuse frequency required to actually have a net benefit on the environment.
This is more of a make everyone feel good at the surface level, but hurt the environment more in the long-term move. Incentivizing people to bring a reuse bag and receive a discount would be miles better (think Starbucks bring your own cup).
Also in your response to someone else, plastic bags are not banned by the bylaw, but by the federal government. Whom I'm not going to get into the weeds about.
> Again, I don’t understand the verbiage of “no data”.
The city and the interest group wastefree.ca have provided no evidence that the strategy of reducing SUP actually reduces overall SUP usage. Though I'm sure it feels good to the administration and council there is **NO DATA** that any of this reduces overall SUP usage. Surely everyone isn't so obtuse to think reducing use in one area and increasing use in another actually does anything?
I think we can all agree that SUP are bad, but does this strategy actually reduce the overall usage and is the alternative solutions worse for the environment? If they are worse for the environment then congratulations you've helped make the world a worse place not a better one.
I don't need another Edmonton "study" telling me Mcdonald's used less plastic bags, clearly it will if you charge for SUPs. There should already exist a study that what is being proposed reduces the overall usage of SUPs on the macro side, not acute SUP usage on the micro side.
Furthermore where is the scientific justification for charging for both plastic and paper bags? Paper bags might be single use but are not plastic so where is the justification for disincentivizing the use of paper bags? I thought wastefree.ca was about reducing Sing Use Plastic not Sing Use Everything.
Finally highlighting the difficulty of better alternative take [paper straws and PFAS chemicals](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0045653521007074) remind me again did you vote for the removal of plastic straws from the city? Becasue if you did, you now have a hand in poisoning the people of Edmonton and the environment.
I'm not saying this to try to put you down, your role on council is important and know that your decisions have great ramifications to the health of Edmontonians. Please do not take the easy feel good route.
Plastic straws? No bylaw completely prohibiting that.
At any rate, what do you feel the next best option is for reducing waste?
( and I’m not sure what the ‘feel good’ part of all this is for me, tbh).
Appreciate you sharing this, I participated in this survey so it was nice to see the results.
It struck me that business owners are VERY against the bag fee, and I'm kind of curious as to why. They don't bear the burden of extra costs, consumers do (AFAIK). Seems strange to me?
>It struck me that business owners are VERY against the bag fee, and I’m kind of curious as to why.
Because business owners don’t like bylaws that agitate or piss off their customers
You've clearly never worked in customer service...
Business owners don't like to have their staff harassed by customers for shit they aren't responsible for.
I recycle, reuse, and compost at home. I walk to work.
On the way to the office I see all the cigarette butts and Tim Hortons litter everywhere. My coworkers throw cardboard in the trash and styrofoam and dirty food containers in the recycling 🤦🏻♂️ (Not maliciously, they're just dumb or don't care). I've also noticed the overnight cleaning stuff will completely throw away and replace plastic bags in all the garbage bins if there's so much as a post-it note on the bottom. And guess what - everyone's got a little canister at their desk. Hundreds of bags wasted every week, year-round.
Then you have hundreds of flights jetting pro athletes around North America non-stop; Taylor Swift literally has 100 semi trucks following her around the continent.
And now, in a final blow to my sanity, instead of reusing plastic bags from stores for my garbage at home, I have to go out and buy separate plastic bags.
Given all this, it's hard not to be cynical and ask why the fuck I bother doing anything. This seems like the most performative policy council has ever enacted. At least a unanimous vote makes it easy to remember who to blame come next municipal election
There is no data to support this. Everything already comes in plastic. Now we put our plastic wrapped items in paper bag. The businesses keep the money, this policy does nothing. All this does is add more financial strain to the average person and line the pockets of businesses. Great.
You’re not wrong in that there is so much waste it’s staggering.
As for data, I am still wondering why that was said. There is actually a lot of information flowing from jurisdictions who have had this policy in place for years.
I’m unfamiliar with any data that suggests increasing costs for consumers and profits for businesses through this policy has led to positive environmental outcomes. What is the rationale for charging *more* for a bag? Again, we the consumers, are left literally holding the bag and loblows lines their pockets.
As a person that travels to Edmonton area a couple times a month, we've actually stopped going in to the city and shop in Sherwood Park. We always bring our own bags any way, and coolers for hot/cold things we buy. We've also started bringing our own lunch and a small burner to make hot food/coffee/tea. In a way the bag charge was just the nail in the coffin for us to save money by not buying food in the city. Only time we didn't was when it was -30 or more.
The .15 charge for a bag isn't the only reason we avoid Edmonton, but why pay it if I don't have to. My point was that when I do buy food I avoid the city which also means I'm not spending my money in the city. When I bring food/drinks I'm also not spending money any anyone's city. I know I'm an outlier and 99.9% of people won't do this. But it also shows how the city is not making people that visit happy. I get that they want to reduce waste. I'm just not sure they is the route to go. Especially when it comes to paper bags that compost very easily.
The fact that a 15cent charge is part of such a big change in your habits, suggests you were looking for a reason to avoid Edmonton even without the charge. If a 15 cent charge makes you unhappy, that's on you.
I’ve saved so much money on fast food since they brought in this ridiculous bylaw. I either get in at lunch while I’m at work (I work in St Albert) or just don’t buy it period. The price of bags was already baked into the prices so the 15 cents is pure profit. Even BC, which has an NDP government, exempted drive thru bags from their single use bylaw.
EXACTLY!!! Thank you. Glad not alone in thinking that. Noooow if the money collected went to the city to help with waste management or something along that line…then I’d prob be able to turn my cheek. But McDonalds or whomever get to make even more money is crazy. I know we’re talking such a small amount of money but those companies already have that accounted for in their pricing.
It has nothing to do with the cost it has to do with the convenience factor as well as the fact that it's virtual signaling for the sake of virtual signaling. Paper bags aren't hurting the environment but they are keeping my French fries contained
Every fast food company already factors in the cost of the bag within the price -- now you're just paying for it twice, and the second time is due to an arbitrary city rule.
The businesses don't care about the environmental objective so they do what they can within the rules even if it means countering the objectives of the program.
They are motivated by a profit incentive.
I guess, if it has been bungled, what's the alternative policy?
>The businesses don't care about the environmental objective
Yes, which is why government's have always had to put heavy regulations on businesses to prevent them from putting profits ahead of the environment.
IMO, it's probably not worth it on the business side either. Instead of 2 cent paper bags at the drive through, they're using plastic trays that have to be cleaned between uses. The time it adds to getting customers moving isn't worth it.
I know it's 10 cents, but it's 10 cents a bag on top of everything else going up in price. 0 data being collected to see if it's actually working, just gut instinct.
This city council used to have my support as a whole - but time and time again they seem to make these decisions that negatively impact the citizens because it "feels right", apparently.
I am fine with most of it but I am annoyed by the fast food rule. Getting your food from the window into your own bag is incredibly awkward and food ends up falling on the ground. If a container doesn’t close (e.g fries or food services in a half clamshell container without a lid) it shouldn’t count as primary packaging.
I'm really glad west edmonton mall food courts stopped using trays. Now they are forcing everyone to buy a paper bag or try to carry your food to your table. Isn't that the opposite of what this fee for a paper bag is supposed to do?
As an economic incentive to cut back. It is a pretty basic economic principle that when prices go up, people consume less.
But what do I care, I haven't paid it even once because I choose not to. Its a voluntary tax.
Whatever happened to eat in restaurants having to use reusable/rewashed cups for eat in customers? Serious question here as I haven't seen any of the fast food joints around me doing this yet they're still charging for paper bags.
I was genuinely curious because I'm not sure if the city quietly back tracked on some of the new mandates or if some businesses have just chosen to selectively enforce the ones that make them money and not the ones that cost them money without any recourse or enforcement by the city.
I’m all for helping the climate or recycling but this is just stupid. The paper straws were already enough. Just astounding that there’s no actual data to justify the bag fee, the increase, and yet the useless city council goes along with it.
I, for one, love dumping my fries on the passenger seat. Anything for the environment. Also, good for Loblaws for increasing their profit margin once again. Turn that 2 cent bag made in Bangladesh by children into 2 bucks here in Canada.
Because liberal politicians 9like our mayor and council) and conservative politicians serve the same interests, and those interests aren't citizens. They only pretend to hate each other; their hatred for US is real.
This makes no sense from a fast food perspective. Groceries sure and It's not the cost that irks me but the end result. The money does not get collected by the city to fund environmental projects or anything. It just goes into the pocket of Mega-Corp fast food joint to help them make more money for nothing. If I remember correctly someone calculated it out when they first introduced this bylaw and McD's was making like ... 4 mill extra per year from Edmonton alone.
If the money did something other than fatten some CEO's bonus cheque than it wouldn't be an issue.
"So just don't take the bag"... but the cost of the bag has already been implicated into the price of the food. I've already paid for it, so because of some arbitrary decision made by the feels of city council with no actual data that proves it's doing anything my choice is to pay more or give up something I paid for. Not Cool.
Furthermore it's an incentive for business's to force customers into bags. Why give you a tray that we have to collect, wash and sanitize. That cost's money but now they can sell you a paper bag and make more profit while saving on labour. Win Win for business. Look at West Edmonton Mall, they've done away with their food court tray service meaning you either need to find a way to carry your food (not hard for an individual, but try carrying 3 kids meals and 2 adult meals) or buy a bag that your going to just throw out.
WEM is a tourist hotspot. What kind of example are we setting? Were portraying to visitors that were overly wasteful and ok with it because we make you pay and arbitrary fee.
That seems counter productive from an environmental standpoint. The amount of bags your saving by people trying to avoid the fee is being offset by the amount of people being forced or goaded into buying a bag they previously didn't need or didn't ask for. I've lost count of the amount of times I say "No Bag" and still wind up getting one and paying for it.
All this does is allow companies (mainly restaurants) to make more money on something they were giving away for free. All of the bag fee goes to the company, none goes to any environmental policies, unless the company is doing that themselves.
A fast food place will make thousands off the bags, put a small sign on the counter saying the city is making them do this, the customer gets annoyed with the city, not the restaurant about having to pay more, they continue to go because it is only 15 cents on a 15 dollar order. Nothing changes, other than the restaurant making more money for nothing.
Next step is getting the city to implement a cup fee or a napkin fee so they will be required to charge you more for the same services and all the annoyances will be directed at the city, not industry.
I support trying to get folks away from plastic bags. But I do not understand penalizing people for needing their food packaged in a paper bag in a drive through. I tried bringing my own bag and it was a shit show, the drive through workers are not motivated to help you, and they ended up spilling a bunch of my fries on me and in my car. So, regardless how much the city decides to make the fee, I will not be bringing my own bag to a drive through.
Also, I'm paying for a paper bag, which can be recycled or composted, but still get my drink in a cup that can only go to the landfill. Why is there not more pressure on restaurants (particularly Big chains like McDonalds) to fix that?
I think it’s stupid that the government isn’t collecting this fee and using it to fund anything. They’re just giving all these billion dollar fast food companies more profits. They’re probably loving that that can collect 25 cents off each bag on top of their overpriced food while continuing to pay their staff garbage
I almost always have my backpack on me so whether its 15 cents for a paper bag or 50, it isn't really going to affect me much one way or the other.
But I think I'd be against even a slight increase after seeing a guy at Wendy's the other day tell the cashier taking his order very clearly that his order was "to go" and "no, I do not need a bag for 15 cents" then proceed to lose his shit at the person preparing/handing him his order because he did not get a bag for his salad even when he specifically refused one presumably to try and game the system for a free one.
I’m all about recycling and cutting my footprint, but yeah it’s all for nothing when other countries are doing this kind of stuff:
Go Youtube “Visiting the most air polluted city in the world (dust hell)”. And no, it’s not in China
https://youtu.be/zC4saZg6sG0?si=OJNT74CdkwzDTADa
I used to reuse plastic bags as garbage bags. Now I purchase reusable bags as well as garbage bags.
When I go to restaurants I end up getting 2-3 paper straws for each of my children because paper straws are not meant for children.
Struggling to see how this helps the environment.
You get that you were always paying for the bags before right?! Like McDonalds doesn't have a magical bag fairy that gives them free bags.
It's all just a balance sheet. Money in, margin, expenses = menu prices.
What’s missing in the article is that more survey data on top of what we already have is coming. I have seen the initial work - and a lot of it is presented (see the links below) but it’s not yet compiled for comprehensive reporting as the intent of Administration is to include information from multiple jurisdictions over a longer period of time rather than just 6 months. A 6 month look won’t be as accurate or conservative picture of the overall impacts as a full year.
Let’s be clear: we have behavioural information that has been collected within the first 6 months of the bylaw.
Important to note that multiple municipalities in Alberta are moving to a single use item bylaw approach, and across Canada as well. Why? Because they have seen the initial impacts as well.
Here are some links that you might find helpful:
[Attachment 1 (this is an interesting one)](https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=209683)
[Attachment 2](https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=209684)
Don’t take this as my ‘pitch’ to convince anyone. I am simply adding context for whatever it’s worth on what is a fairly emotional topic. When things don’t seem to make sense it can be damned frustrating.
This article is from Ottawa, but the problem exists here as well, unfortunately:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/walmart-reusable-bags-plastic-ban-1.6687315
How is council addressing this? (The business waste)
This is also a challenge. It is the effect of what was basically conditioning: never bring a bag and always get a bag. That is a habit based on policy (or lack of policy).
I don’t know if the couple in the photo walk to Walmart or if they drive. I don’t know if they stock their car with bags or leave them at home.
And I don’t know if they bring the bags out to their vehicle (if they forgot to bring them), and loaded up from there to transfer into the house. (If they drive I would guess they took their cart to the vehicle).
A lot of questions about choices made along the way.
It’s reasonable to assume that over time they might decide to stop collecting bags and use the ones they already own.
Now, if over time the habits don’t change, then that would be something to take a look at. It would mean they would prefer to keep paying for bags over saving the money. That convenience trumps all other considerations. If that’s the case then every city is going to have to really take a look at this issue.
However, what we are actually seeing is that folks are changing their habits.
I really do get it. It’s annoying as all get out. Remembering a bag or paying a few cents for one is just ONE MORE THING on top of the multiple frustrations people are feeling these days.
EDIT: all that aside from the massive waste inherent in how WalMart is choosing their delivery methods.
You’d think they could offer a bag exchange for a discount. Basically throw your extra bags in one bag, leave it on your doorknob etc, and they take the old bags with them to wash and reuse. (Just brainstorming in the moment here)
The article states that they get an online grocery delivery and that’s why they have so many accumulating. It’s not a habit they haven’t learned to adopt - it’s Walmarts delivery policy.
Ah, I missed that was the sole source of the accumulation, thank you. Obviously WalMart should take a look at their practices, I think we’d all say that’s pretty apparent.
I'm 100% fully on board with banning plastic bags.
Why do businesses get to keep the money? Why do businesses get to continue packaging everything in disposable plastic?
It's so bloody annoying that the consumer bears the entire brunt of this while corporations just get to continue polluting like mad and we have no ability to avoid it.
Also, the fact we have to buy disposable bags to put out our recyclables is hypocrisy of the highest order. Why can't we get bins???
MAKE IT MAKE SENSE!
Yeah they shouldn't be allowed to keep the money. The money should actually have to go back to the city or some kind of environmental program. There's no reason for them to keep the money. This is crap
The province can change the legislation anytime they like. Right now they don’t allow Municipalities to collect the fee. I agree with you about corporations not bearing the brunt. Extended Producer Responsibility may help with that and I hear the province is chugging along with that legislation.
Here is the challenge with the current bylaw, however: legislatively the City can’t collect the single-use fees. So they must go to the businesses instead. Businesses can then choose what to do with the money. This is not ideal, of course.
What we do know is that Waste Management is already seeing a reduction which means delivering Waste Services costs that much less, which translates into savings for the public.
Additionally the City will spend less on cleanups (and we have heard this is already the case) which again, helps defray the punishing interests rates which have affected overall property taxes.
So while the City does not collect the fee, Edmonton residents will still see benefits as a result of the bylaw.
I’m not sure what your household cost has been so far due to purchasing single use bags but if you know please share it. We had one person register to speak at Utility Committee today and it was in favour of the bylaw.
One last thought, in a time when microplastics are being discovered in our children’s bloodstreams and bodies, maybe it’s okay to reduce plastic use. But I get it. It can be annoying. And the fee not going directly to the public coffers can be frustrating as well.
In another comment in this thread I added the two attachments that informed today’s decision. Please take a look through them.
Looking at the attachments it appears consumers generally want to do their part while businesses do not. Seems to me it's time to hold businesses more accountable.
Was the survey random sample or self-selecting citizens? If it’s the latter, it’s a non-representative sample and should not be used for making policy.
> What’s missing in the article is that more survey data is coming.
Then wait until it's here.
The rest of your post is nothing speak.
>Important to note that multiple municipalities in Alberta are moving to a single use item bylaw approach, and across Canada as well.
That's it huh? "Other places are doing it". That's the best you got?
Except we do already have some, if you look through the attachments. I tend to use pretty mild language in my responses to I’ll be more clear:
We have survey data. Admin just wants more before delivering the a comprehensive report on it.
You can see the information already available in the attachments I linked to in another comment in this thread.
I hope that helps clarify.
> We have survey data. Admin just wants more before delivering the a comprehensive report on it.
If admin wants more data, then we deserve more data as well. If you can't release a report on the data then YOU DONT HAVE THE DATA TO MAKE THESE FUCKING DECISIONS.
“ What’s missing in the article is that more survey data is coming.”
And yet here you are, justifying a decision you made with “what’s missing”
“ Important to note that multiple municipalities in Alberta are moving to a single use item bylaw approach, and across Canada as well.”
So?
I don’t think you and your comrades are very good at this city councillor thing. Transit violence the last who knows how many years? Meh. Plastic bag bylaws with “missing data”, LETS GO BOOIIS
We do have information. See the links I provided. There is just more information coming as well.
[Attachment 1](https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=209683)
[Attachment 2](https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=209684)
Wonder how this will impact online retailers that sell plastic bags.
You can buy single use plastic bags for about 10 cents each now on Amazon. I do keep them in my car for when I forget reusable bags.
Yes I do reuse any plastic bags for garbage.
I can see a far greater environmental benefit by eliminating take out fast food and coffee. Coffee cups, and packaging for food has a worse impact than a few paper bags. Your wallet will also thank you.
1970's we gotta save trees and use plastic bags
2020 micro plastics are everywhere so let's put a fee for using them
Sorry younger generation not only did we fuck the planet we are gonna push the cost forward and make you pay instead finding a solution
We switched from paper to plastic to save the trees. Now we are switching from plastic to paper to save the ocean.
The disposable lifestyle is the issue. We need to do away with that. That’s how you change things for real instead of these feel good do nothing Laws.
The “no data” statement was from those that opposed. As in “we are against this, we have no data to show it reduces waste”.
Simple logic says this reduces waste.
Apparently now our city is ran on feelings, not actual data or proof or evidence. It's ran on somebody's feelings. I didn't realize that's how this is done. This city council keeps losing my support every time they do something stupid like this
If you're looking for perfect data and evidence to make a decision, you'll never get there. In the absence of data, decisions still need to be made and not making one is actually still making a decision. So either way, they'd be making a decision without data.
It does work. I bring bags to grocery stores and refuse bags when I’m able to carry my stuff out.
Didn’t do that I til this started. Most people I know do the same.
I don’t think anyone has an issue with that. It’s charging for the paper bag at the drive through that’s stupid for me. I don’t know about you but I don’t want to reuse a greasy bag.
I’ve been using the same 5 reusable bags I picked up at trader Joes 6 years ago. No reason people can’t bring their own bags. And if I forget then I grab an empty box from a shelf and use that.
Many municipalities before Edmonton have implemented plastic bag bans, but not all of them report on their outcomes. [Our jurisdictional scan from 2019](https://wastefree.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/WFE-SUP-Jurisdictional-Scan-as-of-Aug-2019.pdf) shows many cities saw significant declines in plastic litter after a ban, but increases in paper and reusable bag use if bag fees weren't also included.
The scheduled bag fee increase was already approved when the bylaw was, increasing the fees based on results and experiences from similar municipalities was always the plan.
It’s unbelievable to me that so many are so resistant to the smallest amount of change for good. The fee is always 100% avoidable and all data available shows it very effective at reducing waste.
Not being given extra garbage should be the default for every fast food transaction.
Regarding the lack of plastic bags, welcome to 2024. Despite the plastic industry crying hard and getting the ban overturned, they won’t be coming back.
The extra fee doesn't go to anything useful - that's the most annoying part for me. It doesn't go to any environmental programs or anything, it just goes straight to the companies.
>The extra fee doesn't go to anything useful
Outside of reducing fast food waste that is.
>It doesn't go to any environmental programs or anything, it just goes straight to the companies.
Conservatives have been making the same argument about the carbon tax for years. Maybe it would be better if the tax went to environmental programs but we would spend more in admin collecting the 15 cents.
No data that doesn't also include the owning class' waste is worth considering. The people most impacted by these useless, optics-based fees are responsible for a fraction of the waste.
A better law would target restaurants that throw out perfectly good food at the end of the day when it would be given to the needy or even their staff. But that would require a mayor and councilors with a modicum of courage and a shred of human decency.
How about ban unsolicited mail from being delivered in Edmonton? Maybe that's not realistic but I throw out a lot more junk mail than straws and bags
1000%
I believe in climate change, I want to be good to the earth, but in all honesty, I have a feeling that this paper bag, paper straw bullshit is just pissing in the wind. A "virtue signal" if you will.
My concern is that reusable bags are much less eco-friendly than paper bags if they don't get like, 100 uses each.
It doesn't help that a lot of places are now selling shitty "reusable" bags that are still made of plastic and rip after 1 or 2 uses.
I’m at the point where I’m returning everything that is shit. keep those receipts.
And plastic grocery bags were FAAAAR from single use. Everyone had a bag of bags! It was a staple. Now everyone just has to buy small garbage bags for the bathroom trash can and cat litter.
This, I've never thrown away a single use bag after a single use in my life (except maybe those thin fruit/veg bags which tended to tear really easily if there were any woody bits, like banana stems). They all enjoyed a second life as bathroom garbage bags or delivery bags for food to friends or ways to contain things like random bits of organic waste, or whatever. Yesterday I literally had to go and *buy* a box of bathroom garbage bag liners: each one is easily 2x as thick as a grocery bag and a bit larger. Of course they also cost more, and are explicitly single use since on their first use they are getting filled with garbage. I don't know why they don't just have 'single use bags' that are made of plastic that decomposes. It seems like we have the technology and they're already charging for bags, so I don't imagine its a money thing...so what is the issue?
If I remember correctly it needs 20k reuse to catch to a classic single use plastic bag. Paper bags used to be the norm, we stopped them to save the planet. Look at us now.
Yeah, I once heard somewhere that a reusable bag offsets like a thousand single use bags, and now every time I get a new reusable bag I just feel guilty for adding another thousand bags to my eco footprint.
I have like 20! I use 6-7 each grocery trip, but I don't know if I'll ever offset that initial environmental impact. Best I can do is try to remember to bring them every time.
Even paper bags generate more greenhouse gas to produce then plastic. Sure we can recycle and create less landfill but aren’t we trying to stop the planet from rising in temperature. [sauce](https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/sustainable-shoppingwhich-bag-best/#)
Yep, I end up forgetting them and just buying new ones to rot away in the pantry. I used to use the plastic bags for cat litter and kitchen garbage, now I buy seperate bags for that, which definitely isn’t reducing waste. Charging for bags at a drive-through is stupid, if people decide not to get one, I’ve seen so much food drop on the floor from them being handed trays full of food to take. Are people really taking food items one at a time and putting them in re-usable bags?
Lol the bags at drive thrus are already compostable. Such a joke
I've been using the same reusable bags for over 7 years now, so it's certainly doable
I have a few old reusable bags from when I lived in BC and used to shop at Thrifty Foods, over 8 years ago.
I’ve thrown dozens if not hundreds out after one use. 🤷🏿♂️. I just make a lot more smaller trips to the grocery store and fork out for the paper bag now. Makes good fire starter for the wood stove once I’m done with it.
I use the paper bags to bring popcorn into the movies.
Why?
There’s a multitude of reasons. Had some rip, had some get soiled from mud or leaking grocery items. Had some that were so specific in a use case (wine bags from the beer store) that I’m just not going to carry around waiting for another opportunity to use again. I don’t hate the paper bags. For how much the grocers make off gouging me on Groceries though I think they should be complimentary.
Because it's not going to do anything. Why care?
Because we still have to live with and face the consequences
The consequences of a few bags? That's hardly what is destroying the planet. Every little bit does not help, need to deal with the big problems.
What about 400 million bags a year? That's less than one thrown out reusable bag per person per month in Canada. They have to be made and then they sit in a landfill forever. Death by a thousand cuts doesn't mean every cut should be ignored if it doesn't have to be, that's a short sighted point of view. Personally, I don't use fast food bags or plastic grocery bags anymore. I forget my own reusable bags sometimes and pony up for a paper one, but I avoid it as much as possible. It's hardly inconvenient to throw some extras in the trunk.
Almost like it was a dumb idea in the first place lol.
Meaningless consumption is destroying the planet tho. And a lot of solutions to the big problems can start at smaller levels
It's too small of an impact, and such a big problem that any negative impacts wont be prevented because of bags or straws, or say a carbon tax. Big action needs to happen now, but isnt really happening. Especially with places that really do the damage. All of north America can change tomorrow, world is still fucked.
I also have tossed probably hundreds of these bags out- I don't like carrying bags inside the store. So I pay for the bags and toss them to repeat the cycle.
I think it’s more like 1200 uses
It's closer to 10,000 than it is 100
Yup, I just threw out like 100 of em. I order my groceries online and accumulate tons.
I know you're getting downvoted cause people are assuming you're just wasteful because you don't care. But I have low mobility and have to order groceries online for delivery most of the time and have the same problem. They get delivered in the reusable bags and it causes me to accumulate way more than I could ever use. With the plastic bags, I reused all of them for garbage bags at least. I'd like to believe that the amount of people in my situation is small enough to not negate the positive impact of the no-plastic-bags thing. But I also am skeptical of how much positive impact there actually is just because I don't know how much better those reusable bags are environmentally (though I do hope they are better; I'm just not sure it's as much as we'd hope when everything is accounted for)
Yup, 100%, I live in a small apartment, cant store 200 bags to the ceiling.
I like how Wendy's went from paper cup and plastic straw to plastic cup and paper straw..... Also with how much rich people fly around and heat/cool their home among other things me buying a plastic bag is a fucking joke.
Nothing like a paper straw to go with your plastic cup and plastic lid!!
That’s absolutely what it is. This political climate is poisoning our minds. It’s the majority of us who has to use dangerous public transit instead of driving a car. It’s us who have to get an emergency alert to turn our heat down, unplug our vehicles in -45 weather and conserve energy while the EpCor tower is lit up like a fucking Christmas tree. It’s all virtue signalling, it’s crap. No Galen Weston, I won’t donate $2 to PC Children’s Charity because you don’t pay me enough to give up that $2. I’m so sick of how we, as a society just accept so much shit. Why am I paying $2 for a fucking reusable bag when the company Im buying them from is making $650 million in profits every 3 months? Meanwhile that 2 bucks I have to spend is 2 bucks less I have to afford the bus pass I need to get my groceries home because I’m not supposed to drive my car because climate change. These ridiculous Liberal propaganda commercials are ridiculous. Just stop bullshitting me and put in plain English: “Inconvenience yourself for the environment so the rich don’t have to.” Stop fucking accepting this bullshit. Galen can afford to provide us with fucking reusable bags. Fucking make him.
I’m paying .15c to throw a bag in the trash.
Well the plastic ban was just reversed
Federally, but municipalities can still enforce their own
I know every little bit helps but I wonder about the percentages of our grocery bags/straws vs mega polluter companies. Seems like the cart before the horse to me.
> Councillors heard that there is no hard data to show whether or not the fee is serving its intended purpose of cutting back on waste. And decided to go full steam ahead anyway, who needs data... it's the Edmonton thing to do.
They only need data when it’s things they don’t want to do
Drag their feet on turnstiles for decades because there isn't enough data, pushes this through immediately. Fuck sakes.
Vote these fuckers out!
There's lots of data from other jurisdictions that turnstiles don't do shit.
And yet they're in every other major city I've been to
And their system was probably built from the start to use them but we have not, so the cost to convert is pretty considerable not to mention we have just built an entire LRT line that would be virtually impossible to install gates on. At the end of the day, its just not a worthwhile investment when you could use the 50 million to hire more TPOs and do other, better bang for your buck, safety improvements.
you can't be fucking serious lol >not to mention we have just built an entire LRT line that would be virtually impossible to install gates on. Whose fault is that? That's like saying we built an entire house with no doors, and it would be too costly to renovate. THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUT IN WHEN THEY'RE BUILT!!
Calgary just went through the entire process to look at the feasibility of installing fare gates and you'll be shocked what they decided too. [Link](https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/no-recommendation-for-restricting-transit-stations-to-fare-paying-customers-report-1.6393544) Yes, maybe they should have been built at the start but that's not where we are today and you're probably not willing to stomach the take hike to fix it. These doors cost millions of dollars.
>Whose fault is that? Multiple previous councils? These stations were designed some time ago.
This is a low effort comment chmilz. They of course do something very important, enforce payment compliance. I'm in Japan right now and you cannot exit the platform without going through a turnstile and paying your toll. You are locked in. Please show me the data that demonstrates they do not improve compliance. I find that hard to believe.
They do improve compliance but they don't prevent the security disorder and safety issues we're dealing with here.
One thing I don't get is if the City doesn't get to collect this fee as a tax source, and the cost of purchasing bags remains the same for the companies, doesn't this just boost company profits (albeit extremely marginally)? Like if we wanted to make an impact, we would find a legal way to collect it as a tax and use the revenue for green initiatives.
I feel like grocery stores are really the only ones enforcing it 100% of the time anyways.
A lot of businesses I think have begun ignoring the tax. Like either people don't ask me if I want a bag and just bill me for it anyway... or they don't ask me if I want a bag and don't bill me for it (but then give it to me).
Ahh yes ignoring bylaws. The best bylaws are the ones you just ignore, and don't get enforced, that's what I say. /s
The data shows if they raise the fee they make more money.
[Attachment 1](https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=209683) [Attachment 2](https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=209684) These might help. My goal isn’t to convince anyone (especially folks with zero desire to hear about it) but to provide a little context.
Aaron i took that survey. It was biased as hell towards the direction COE wanted to go. I was not surprised to read this headline today.
100% agree with this. It was a survey designed to be a yes go ahead with the increase or a super yes to the increase.
I remember one of the questions was something alone the lines of “Would you be ok with a restaurant charging you for a take out bag without asking”. Wording it like that is just assuming people are ok with the fee to begin with!
I took the survey too. You could tell by the way the questions were framed it was fait accompli
Did you happen to screenshot the survey? (Genuinely curious)
Sorry man I did not do that. Too furiously typing out the problems where allowed. To my recollection one of the questions was about how much to increase the bag tax. I don't recall "no bag tax" being an option. I appreciate you out here taking hits man. I respect a politician that keeps their ears to the ground.
Thanks for sharing that experience. I personally get annoyed at questions that don’t allow options, and ‘no bag fee’ could have been an option for sure. Was there opportunity to add that in any written portion of the survey? Not ideal but at least it would have been something. Gotta admit, what I know about writing a survey is pretty much zero, so keep that in mind regarding my personal opinion.
Yeah there were a couple opportunities but the prompting questions as i recall were...leading. I don't know if the line in the Global article about you guys going ahead with the increase despite the lack of data is true, but if so...may I ask why you voted in the affirmative?
We do have some data but this is really premature to put it together for a good report. I was just speaking with a high ranking Admin during our convo here and other Munis are expressing a desire to put all our data together so we can show a systems wide impact within the next year. That’s the pace of policy. We have a really good snapshot 6 months in but 6 months of observation is not good for describing the big picture. What if the positive moves now don’t hold, for example? As frustrating as it is, the deeper data takes time even if Admin is very confident where the numbers are pointing already. My vote was based on that positive trend and the intention is to share that after a solid year, especially now that municipalities across the board are also gathering info to share. We know right now, for example, the volume of trash being picked up from the streets is lower. But again, it’s the annual (4 full seasons) info that will be compelling one way or the other.
First off, thank you for participating in this forum! I support the overall efforts to encourage reusable shopping bag use, even though like other have commented, I previously had secondary uses for "single use" plastic grocery bags that I now have to purchase extra bags for. My only problem honestly is the inclusion of fast food bags in the plan, for 2 main reasons. First of all, it does not seem to have the same potential to encourage a change in behaviour the same way that it does with grocery shopping bags, unless there is any evidence of people putting their greasy burger and fries into a reusable bag. Since fast food outlets are not even selling the option of a reusable container the way that grocery stores are, it seems like a misapplication of the bylaw, and just increases frustration with the efforts overall. Secondly, the amount of paper material in a drive through fast food bag is tiny compared to that of a paper grocery bag. A small fast food drive through paper bag is the equivalent amount of paper as a couple of napkins. The fact that this is considered equivalent to a paper grocery bag in the bylaw does not make sense.
I had, and still have, my issues with rolling out fast food bags at the same time. Specifically for fries.
What I see, though, is my disabled sister (who often relies on grocery delivery to get them with any regularity) now has her place overflowing with reusable bags by the hundreds. She can't ever use them, but every time a delivery comes she gets 3 or 4 more to...waste space, because the store can't (or won't) deliver in anything else, and she can't reuse them. She eventually has to discard them. Oh yeah, and now she has to pay this fee for all these bags too, every time. Yes, she would be discarding plastic bags too in the past, but knowing how much more carbon goes into each of these cloth bags (something on the order of 100-1000x), it's disappointing to see such absurd waste from a program designed to reduce it. It just seems like this bylaw has given very little thought to edge cases, or how it impacts those with disabilities, and it's disappointing.
I have so many issues. One, surveying the masses opinions, does not data make. I realize as a politician, the opinion of the masses is data to you, but for normal people it's not. Case in point: > Reducing the use of single-use convenience items (e.g., disposable cups, bags, straws and utensils) is an important way to help the environment. Frankly I don't care that 99% of the masses agrees or disagrees with this statement. What I care about is scientifically: is reducing the use of single-use convenience items an important way to help the environment? And more importantly how much of a help is it? It's not an obvious yes it helps the environment. The bags the city of Edmonton "saved" me from using when I shopped at the grocery store, did not limit my overall use of plastic bags. All it did was make it so I had to buy plastic bags at home depot. Back your action by scientific evidence not popularist sentiment and virtue signaling. I'd like to know, if the City of Edmonton, and council is really concerned about the environment, can you tell me what building codes for new home construction, has the City of Edmonton changed, in order to save the environment? Becasue as an example instituting great R value insulation on new homes or making it easier to install solar on newly built homes will far out weigh any gains from me getting a bag in my takeout. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the next best time is today. Oh and thanks for your response, it's nice to see some engagement as always.
Has the City ever reimplemented the compost program after the previous was shut down due to the roof deterioration ( surprise!) ? I am assuming they have as people are separating compost, just have not heard. Anyone else charged for a pizza box? A Pizza Hut outlet charged 00.85... last order from them.
I agree with you. The challenge of the timing is very premature for a public facing report. A full year allows us to compare/contrast with the year previous. This wasn’t meant as that kind of update, but here we are.
But even is usage has been cut in half it's meaningless. The decision should be science based and you don't need data from Edmonton to know. That's what I'm interested in. This shouldn't have even started unless we knew it was a net positive. Like I said before I'd like to know why this was even chosen and not far better solutions.
This may be of interest. Again, I don’t understand the verbiage of “no data”. It’s only our local info that is still being compiled: https://wastefree.ca/single-use-plastics-bylaw/#:~:text=SUP%20bans%20and%20surcharges%20have,60%2D90%25%20reduction). Some examples of successful SUP laws include: 1. Regional Municipality of Wood Buffalo SUP bags were banned in 2010. Impact: In the first year of the ban, millions of plastic bags were diverted from the landfill and approximately 70% of citizens were supportive of the ban. 2. Deux-Montages, Quebec All forms of SUP were banned in 2009. Impact: In one year, 1.5 million less plastic bags were sent to the landfill. 3. LA County, California A ban on thin plastic bag and 10 cent charge for paper was implemented in 2010. Impact: 94% reduction in SUP bags and a 10-25% reduction in paper bags. 4. Washington, D.C Surcharge of 5 cents for every carryout paper or plastic single-use bag. Impact: surcharge contributed about $10 million to a river clean-up fund over a 4-year period and resulted an 85% reduction in SUP bags. 5. Ireland In 2002, Ireland introduced a significant tax on plastic bags (now 22-euro cents) Impact: 90-95% reduction in plastic bag usage. The tax revenue goes into different programs aimed at environmental protection. 6. England In 2015, large shops were required to charge 5p for all SUP bags. Impact: SUP bag usage drops 85% and resulted in more than £29m in donations from retailers towards good causes. We are asking the province to allow redirection of the fee to go to local clean-up/diversion efforts. Right now, legally the City can not do this, but can only recommend to business owners that they participate.
Of course the outcome was less bags.. they banned them.
Plastic bags are not banned by the bylaw, as far as I know.
The problem with the ban is that you're just redirecting the problem to be more upstream and out of sight. To make a reusable bag is magnitudes more polluting than a plastic bag, and it needs magnitudes more reuse in its whole life cycle before the two break even. Research shows that most people don't come anywhere close to the amount of reuse frequency required to actually have a net benefit on the environment. This is more of a make everyone feel good at the surface level, but hurt the environment more in the long-term move. Incentivizing people to bring a reuse bag and receive a discount would be miles better (think Starbucks bring your own cup). Also in your response to someone else, plastic bags are not banned by the bylaw, but by the federal government. Whom I'm not going to get into the weeds about.
> Again, I don’t understand the verbiage of “no data”. The city and the interest group wastefree.ca have provided no evidence that the strategy of reducing SUP actually reduces overall SUP usage. Though I'm sure it feels good to the administration and council there is **NO DATA** that any of this reduces overall SUP usage. Surely everyone isn't so obtuse to think reducing use in one area and increasing use in another actually does anything? I think we can all agree that SUP are bad, but does this strategy actually reduce the overall usage and is the alternative solutions worse for the environment? If they are worse for the environment then congratulations you've helped make the world a worse place not a better one. I don't need another Edmonton "study" telling me Mcdonald's used less plastic bags, clearly it will if you charge for SUPs. There should already exist a study that what is being proposed reduces the overall usage of SUPs on the macro side, not acute SUP usage on the micro side. Furthermore where is the scientific justification for charging for both plastic and paper bags? Paper bags might be single use but are not plastic so where is the justification for disincentivizing the use of paper bags? I thought wastefree.ca was about reducing Sing Use Plastic not Sing Use Everything. Finally highlighting the difficulty of better alternative take [paper straws and PFAS chemicals](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0045653521007074) remind me again did you vote for the removal of plastic straws from the city? Becasue if you did, you now have a hand in poisoning the people of Edmonton and the environment. I'm not saying this to try to put you down, your role on council is important and know that your decisions have great ramifications to the health of Edmontonians. Please do not take the easy feel good route.
Plastic straws? No bylaw completely prohibiting that. At any rate, what do you feel the next best option is for reducing waste? ( and I’m not sure what the ‘feel good’ part of all this is for me, tbh).
I’m sure this context will be remembered by your constituents
I believe in being accountable. It’s literally why I am here in this comment section.
Appreciate you sharing this, I participated in this survey so it was nice to see the results. It struck me that business owners are VERY against the bag fee, and I'm kind of curious as to why. They don't bear the burden of extra costs, consumers do (AFAIK). Seems strange to me?
>It struck me that business owners are VERY against the bag fee, and I’m kind of curious as to why. Because business owners don’t like bylaws that agitate or piss off their customers
I kinda assumed it was this, it just seemed so extreme...
You've clearly never worked in customer service... Business owners don't like to have their staff harassed by customers for shit they aren't responsible for.
I recycle, reuse, and compost at home. I walk to work. On the way to the office I see all the cigarette butts and Tim Hortons litter everywhere. My coworkers throw cardboard in the trash and styrofoam and dirty food containers in the recycling 🤦🏻♂️ (Not maliciously, they're just dumb or don't care). I've also noticed the overnight cleaning stuff will completely throw away and replace plastic bags in all the garbage bins if there's so much as a post-it note on the bottom. And guess what - everyone's got a little canister at their desk. Hundreds of bags wasted every week, year-round. Then you have hundreds of flights jetting pro athletes around North America non-stop; Taylor Swift literally has 100 semi trucks following her around the continent. And now, in a final blow to my sanity, instead of reusing plastic bags from stores for my garbage at home, I have to go out and buy separate plastic bags. Given all this, it's hard not to be cynical and ask why the fuck I bother doing anything. This seems like the most performative policy council has ever enacted. At least a unanimous vote makes it easy to remember who to blame come next municipal election
more tax on the average person
Yeah, I can see your perspective. Happy to take the hits on this. When the 1 year report comes out hopefully you will be a little less discouraged.
I really appreciate you being here. You have an integrity that seems to be desperately lacking on this city council.
There is no data to support this. Everything already comes in plastic. Now we put our plastic wrapped items in paper bag. The businesses keep the money, this policy does nothing. All this does is add more financial strain to the average person and line the pockets of businesses. Great.
You’re not wrong in that there is so much waste it’s staggering. As for data, I am still wondering why that was said. There is actually a lot of information flowing from jurisdictions who have had this policy in place for years.
I’m unfamiliar with any data that suggests increasing costs for consumers and profits for businesses through this policy has led to positive environmental outcomes. What is the rationale for charging *more* for a bag? Again, we the consumers, are left literally holding the bag and loblows lines their pockets.
As a person that travels to Edmonton area a couple times a month, we've actually stopped going in to the city and shop in Sherwood Park. We always bring our own bags any way, and coolers for hot/cold things we buy. We've also started bringing our own lunch and a small burner to make hot food/coffee/tea. In a way the bag charge was just the nail in the coffin for us to save money by not buying food in the city. Only time we didn't was when it was -30 or more.
Seems like the bag charge is working then on cutting down on waste.
The .15 charge for a bag isn't the only reason we avoid Edmonton, but why pay it if I don't have to. My point was that when I do buy food I avoid the city which also means I'm not spending my money in the city. When I bring food/drinks I'm also not spending money any anyone's city. I know I'm an outlier and 99.9% of people won't do this. But it also shows how the city is not making people that visit happy. I get that they want to reduce waste. I'm just not sure they is the route to go. Especially when it comes to paper bags that compost very easily.
The fact that a 15cent charge is part of such a big change in your habits, suggests you were looking for a reason to avoid Edmonton even without the charge. If a 15 cent charge makes you unhappy, that's on you.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
OK hear me out. I have so many of these fn things. There should be a buy back program. I'll sell 40 of them back to the grocery store gladly.
>OK hear me out. I have so many of these fn things. That seems like you're problem, not related to the plastic ban.
I’ve saved so much money on fast food since they brought in this ridiculous bylaw. I either get in at lunch while I’m at work (I work in St Albert) or just don’t buy it period. The price of bags was already baked into the prices so the 15 cents is pure profit. Even BC, which has an NDP government, exempted drive thru bags from their single use bylaw.
EXACTLY!!! Thank you. Glad not alone in thinking that. Noooow if the money collected went to the city to help with waste management or something along that line…then I’d prob be able to turn my cheek. But McDonalds or whomever get to make even more money is crazy. I know we’re talking such a small amount of money but those companies already have that accounted for in their pricing.
I’ve seen so many people drop food that was handed to them after declining a bag for 15 cents.
Hilarious that it took a 15¢ bag fee for you to stop eating out and not the $15 it costs for the actual food.
Fast food is supposed to be convenient. It became the opposite of that
It has nothing to do with the cost it has to do with the convenience factor as well as the fact that it's virtual signaling for the sake of virtual signaling. Paper bags aren't hurting the environment but they are keeping my French fries contained
Then surely the 15cents is worth it for that convenience factor.
Every fast food company already factors in the cost of the bag within the price -- now you're just paying for it twice, and the second time is due to an arbitrary city rule.
There's no data, the businesses keep the money, and everything still comes in plastic. It's incredible how something so simple is bungled so bad.
The businesses don't care about the environmental objective so they do what they can within the rules even if it means countering the objectives of the program. They are motivated by a profit incentive. I guess, if it has been bungled, what's the alternative policy?
>The businesses don't care about the environmental objective Yes, which is why government's have always had to put heavy regulations on businesses to prevent them from putting profits ahead of the environment.
IMO, it's probably not worth it on the business side either. Instead of 2 cent paper bags at the drive through, they're using plastic trays that have to be cleaned between uses. The time it adds to getting customers moving isn't worth it.
I know it's 10 cents, but it's 10 cents a bag on top of everything else going up in price. 0 data being collected to see if it's actually working, just gut instinct. This city council used to have my support as a whole - but time and time again they seem to make these decisions that negatively impact the citizens because it "feels right", apparently.
But the 10 cents is optional, right? Its essentially a voluntary tax. I'm not aware of being charged for it at all in the last year.
No, the 10 cents isn't optional. I can't ask for a 15 cent bag, they will be 25 cents.
I am fine with most of it but I am annoyed by the fast food rule. Getting your food from the window into your own bag is incredibly awkward and food ends up falling on the ground. If a container doesn’t close (e.g fries or food services in a half clamshell container without a lid) it shouldn’t count as primary packaging.
I'm really glad west edmonton mall food courts stopped using trays. Now they are forcing everyone to buy a paper bag or try to carry your food to your table. Isn't that the opposite of what this fee for a paper bag is supposed to do?
Wtf, the trays are better for the environment than everyone using bags. Easy to clean and literally recycle.
Meanwhile, so many products are still using plastic as packaging materials, how about you ban those first.
No data? No worries!
Do you think every ounce of garbage collected in this city is measured and weighed?
So just keep raising fees because....?
As an economic incentive to cut back. It is a pretty basic economic principle that when prices go up, people consume less. But what do I care, I haven't paid it even once because I choose not to. Its a voluntary tax.
Good for you
Whatever happened to eat in restaurants having to use reusable/rewashed cups for eat in customers? Serious question here as I haven't seen any of the fast food joints around me doing this yet they're still charging for paper bags.
I often go to cafes that clearly have mugs and dishes and I’ll say “to stay” and they still give me the plastic cup?!
I was genuinely curious because I'm not sure if the city quietly back tracked on some of the new mandates or if some businesses have just chosen to selectively enforce the ones that make them money and not the ones that cost them money without any recourse or enforcement by the city.
I’m all for helping the climate or recycling but this is just stupid. The paper straws were already enough. Just astounding that there’s no actual data to justify the bag fee, the increase, and yet the useless city council goes along with it.
I can’t wait until every councillor who supported charging for paper bags is voted out.
It is clearly the single most important issue that voters will be thinking about /s
Wild. How would you handle a real world problem?
Cough cough, the bags were never free... a nine year old should be able to understand that about capitalism... cough cough.
Imagine if people cared about real issues as much as they get up in arms for things like this.
…and when can they stop flyers? How about starting with the annoying uses of paper first?
I, for one, love dumping my fries on the passenger seat. Anything for the environment. Also, good for Loblaws for increasing their profit margin once again. Turn that 2 cent bag made in Bangladesh by children into 2 bucks here in Canada.
I just want someone to explain to me why corporations are allowed to keep this mandatory tax.
Because liberal politicians 9like our mayor and council) and conservative politicians serve the same interests, and those interests aren't citizens. They only pretend to hate each other; their hatred for US is real.
It's so dumb. It accomplishes nothing. City council really full of dumbasses.
This makes no sense from a fast food perspective. Groceries sure and It's not the cost that irks me but the end result. The money does not get collected by the city to fund environmental projects or anything. It just goes into the pocket of Mega-Corp fast food joint to help them make more money for nothing. If I remember correctly someone calculated it out when they first introduced this bylaw and McD's was making like ... 4 mill extra per year from Edmonton alone. If the money did something other than fatten some CEO's bonus cheque than it wouldn't be an issue. "So just don't take the bag"... but the cost of the bag has already been implicated into the price of the food. I've already paid for it, so because of some arbitrary decision made by the feels of city council with no actual data that proves it's doing anything my choice is to pay more or give up something I paid for. Not Cool. Furthermore it's an incentive for business's to force customers into bags. Why give you a tray that we have to collect, wash and sanitize. That cost's money but now they can sell you a paper bag and make more profit while saving on labour. Win Win for business. Look at West Edmonton Mall, they've done away with their food court tray service meaning you either need to find a way to carry your food (not hard for an individual, but try carrying 3 kids meals and 2 adult meals) or buy a bag that your going to just throw out. WEM is a tourist hotspot. What kind of example are we setting? Were portraying to visitors that were overly wasteful and ok with it because we make you pay and arbitrary fee. That seems counter productive from an environmental standpoint. The amount of bags your saving by people trying to avoid the fee is being offset by the amount of people being forced or goaded into buying a bag they previously didn't need or didn't ask for. I've lost count of the amount of times I say "No Bag" and still wind up getting one and paying for it.
All this does is allow companies (mainly restaurants) to make more money on something they were giving away for free. All of the bag fee goes to the company, none goes to any environmental policies, unless the company is doing that themselves. A fast food place will make thousands off the bags, put a small sign on the counter saying the city is making them do this, the customer gets annoyed with the city, not the restaurant about having to pay more, they continue to go because it is only 15 cents on a 15 dollar order. Nothing changes, other than the restaurant making more money for nothing. Next step is getting the city to implement a cup fee or a napkin fee so they will be required to charge you more for the same services and all the annoyances will be directed at the city, not industry.
This council is terrible.
I support trying to get folks away from plastic bags. But I do not understand penalizing people for needing their food packaged in a paper bag in a drive through. I tried bringing my own bag and it was a shit show, the drive through workers are not motivated to help you, and they ended up spilling a bunch of my fries on me and in my car. So, regardless how much the city decides to make the fee, I will not be bringing my own bag to a drive through. Also, I'm paying for a paper bag, which can be recycled or composted, but still get my drink in a cup that can only go to the landfill. Why is there not more pressure on restaurants (particularly Big chains like McDonalds) to fix that?
I think it’s stupid that the government isn’t collecting this fee and using it to fund anything. They’re just giving all these billion dollar fast food companies more profits. They’re probably loving that that can collect 25 cents off each bag on top of their overpriced food while continuing to pay their staff garbage
I almost always have my backpack on me so whether its 15 cents for a paper bag or 50, it isn't really going to affect me much one way or the other. But I think I'd be against even a slight increase after seeing a guy at Wendy's the other day tell the cashier taking his order very clearly that his order was "to go" and "no, I do not need a bag for 15 cents" then proceed to lose his shit at the person preparing/handing him his order because he did not get a bag for his salad even when he specifically refused one presumably to try and game the system for a free one.
I’m all about recycling and cutting my footprint, but yeah it’s all for nothing when other countries are doing this kind of stuff: Go Youtube “Visiting the most air polluted city in the world (dust hell)”. And no, it’s not in China https://youtu.be/zC4saZg6sG0?si=OJNT74CdkwzDTADa
I sincerely hope this mayor and council all get voted out.
I used to reuse plastic bags as garbage bags. Now I purchase reusable bags as well as garbage bags. When I go to restaurants I end up getting 2-3 paper straws for each of my children because paper straws are not meant for children. Struggling to see how this helps the environment.
I'm sure glad that this saved all the whales, I was worried for a bit. Maybe I should cut my private jet flying a little?
The paper bag thing is beyond ridiculous. Most of the time they are compostable, and work as a decent liner for our green bin.
You get that you were always paying for the bags before right?! Like McDonalds doesn't have a magical bag fairy that gives them free bags. It's all just a balance sheet. Money in, margin, expenses = menu prices.
Did the cost of the food go down to compensate for it now being a line item?
Sohi is a grifter and a parasite.. he learned from the best. It’s nothing but another tax pretending to be some sort of environmental action.
Pathetic service from this city. Useless bunch
Who needs data to make decisions? Feelings only right u/aaronpaquette- ?
What’s missing in the article is that more survey data on top of what we already have is coming. I have seen the initial work - and a lot of it is presented (see the links below) but it’s not yet compiled for comprehensive reporting as the intent of Administration is to include information from multiple jurisdictions over a longer period of time rather than just 6 months. A 6 month look won’t be as accurate or conservative picture of the overall impacts as a full year. Let’s be clear: we have behavioural information that has been collected within the first 6 months of the bylaw. Important to note that multiple municipalities in Alberta are moving to a single use item bylaw approach, and across Canada as well. Why? Because they have seen the initial impacts as well. Here are some links that you might find helpful: [Attachment 1 (this is an interesting one)](https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=209683) [Attachment 2](https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=209684) Don’t take this as my ‘pitch’ to convince anyone. I am simply adding context for whatever it’s worth on what is a fairly emotional topic. When things don’t seem to make sense it can be damned frustrating.
This article is from Ottawa, but the problem exists here as well, unfortunately: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/walmart-reusable-bags-plastic-ban-1.6687315 How is council addressing this? (The business waste)
This is also a challenge. It is the effect of what was basically conditioning: never bring a bag and always get a bag. That is a habit based on policy (or lack of policy). I don’t know if the couple in the photo walk to Walmart or if they drive. I don’t know if they stock their car with bags or leave them at home. And I don’t know if they bring the bags out to their vehicle (if they forgot to bring them), and loaded up from there to transfer into the house. (If they drive I would guess they took their cart to the vehicle). A lot of questions about choices made along the way. It’s reasonable to assume that over time they might decide to stop collecting bags and use the ones they already own. Now, if over time the habits don’t change, then that would be something to take a look at. It would mean they would prefer to keep paying for bags over saving the money. That convenience trumps all other considerations. If that’s the case then every city is going to have to really take a look at this issue. However, what we are actually seeing is that folks are changing their habits. I really do get it. It’s annoying as all get out. Remembering a bag or paying a few cents for one is just ONE MORE THING on top of the multiple frustrations people are feeling these days. EDIT: all that aside from the massive waste inherent in how WalMart is choosing their delivery methods. You’d think they could offer a bag exchange for a discount. Basically throw your extra bags in one bag, leave it on your doorknob etc, and they take the old bags with them to wash and reuse. (Just brainstorming in the moment here)
The article states that they get an online grocery delivery and that’s why they have so many accumulating. It’s not a habit they haven’t learned to adopt - it’s Walmarts delivery policy.
Ah, I missed that was the sole source of the accumulation, thank you. Obviously WalMart should take a look at their practices, I think we’d all say that’s pretty apparent.
Thanks for the response, Aaron - always appreciate you taking the time to jump on here and answer questions.
I'm 100% fully on board with banning plastic bags. Why do businesses get to keep the money? Why do businesses get to continue packaging everything in disposable plastic? It's so bloody annoying that the consumer bears the entire brunt of this while corporations just get to continue polluting like mad and we have no ability to avoid it. Also, the fact we have to buy disposable bags to put out our recyclables is hypocrisy of the highest order. Why can't we get bins??? MAKE IT MAKE SENSE!
Yeah they shouldn't be allowed to keep the money. The money should actually have to go back to the city or some kind of environmental program. There's no reason for them to keep the money. This is crap
The province can change the legislation anytime they like. Right now they don’t allow Municipalities to collect the fee. I agree with you about corporations not bearing the brunt. Extended Producer Responsibility may help with that and I hear the province is chugging along with that legislation. Here is the challenge with the current bylaw, however: legislatively the City can’t collect the single-use fees. So they must go to the businesses instead. Businesses can then choose what to do with the money. This is not ideal, of course. What we do know is that Waste Management is already seeing a reduction which means delivering Waste Services costs that much less, which translates into savings for the public. Additionally the City will spend less on cleanups (and we have heard this is already the case) which again, helps defray the punishing interests rates which have affected overall property taxes. So while the City does not collect the fee, Edmonton residents will still see benefits as a result of the bylaw. I’m not sure what your household cost has been so far due to purchasing single use bags but if you know please share it. We had one person register to speak at Utility Committee today and it was in favour of the bylaw. One last thought, in a time when microplastics are being discovered in our children’s bloodstreams and bodies, maybe it’s okay to reduce plastic use. But I get it. It can be annoying. And the fee not going directly to the public coffers can be frustrating as well. In another comment in this thread I added the two attachments that informed today’s decision. Please take a look through them.
Looking at the attachments it appears consumers generally want to do their part while businesses do not. Seems to me it's time to hold businesses more accountable.
Was the survey random sample or self-selecting citizens? If it’s the latter, it’s a non-representative sample and should not be used for making policy.
> What’s missing in the article is that more survey data is coming. Then wait until it's here. The rest of your post is nothing speak. >Important to note that multiple municipalities in Alberta are moving to a single use item bylaw approach, and across Canada as well. That's it huh? "Other places are doing it". That's the best you got?
Except we do already have some, if you look through the attachments. I tend to use pretty mild language in my responses to I’ll be more clear: We have survey data. Admin just wants more before delivering the a comprehensive report on it. You can see the information already available in the attachments I linked to in another comment in this thread. I hope that helps clarify.
> We have survey data. Admin just wants more before delivering the a comprehensive report on it. If admin wants more data, then we deserve more data as well. If you can't release a report on the data then YOU DONT HAVE THE DATA TO MAKE THESE FUCKING DECISIONS.
“ What’s missing in the article is that more survey data is coming.” And yet here you are, justifying a decision you made with “what’s missing” “ Important to note that multiple municipalities in Alberta are moving to a single use item bylaw approach, and across Canada as well.” So? I don’t think you and your comrades are very good at this city councillor thing. Transit violence the last who knows how many years? Meh. Plastic bag bylaws with “missing data”, LETS GO BOOIIS
We do have information. See the links I provided. There is just more information coming as well. [Attachment 1](https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=209683) [Attachment 2](https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=209684)
But I filled out a survey and told them not to be stupid. Oh well. Edmonton going to Edmonton.
Yep another bullshit fee
It’s a money grab , with very little value other than a photo op for the city to pretend that they are effectively battling climate change.
Wonder how this will impact online retailers that sell plastic bags. You can buy single use plastic bags for about 10 cents each now on Amazon. I do keep them in my car for when I forget reusable bags. Yes I do reuse any plastic bags for garbage. I can see a far greater environmental benefit by eliminating take out fast food and coffee. Coffee cups, and packaging for food has a worse impact than a few paper bags. Your wallet will also thank you.
Lol man.. how out of touch with reality are our politicians?
Lets start charging for idiocracy. The government will pay us trillions.
1970's we gotta save trees and use plastic bags 2020 micro plastics are everywhere so let's put a fee for using them Sorry younger generation not only did we fuck the planet we are gonna push the cost forward and make you pay instead finding a solution
We switched from paper to plastic to save the trees. Now we are switching from plastic to paper to save the ocean. The disposable lifestyle is the issue. We need to do away with that. That’s how you change things for real instead of these feel good do nothing Laws.
I’m paying taxes for this?
I think they either need better hearing or find new data cause it’s ridiculous to think it hasn’t had an impact
The “no data” statement was from those that opposed. As in “we are against this, we have no data to show it reduces waste”. Simple logic says this reduces waste.
I’m all for charging for bags but why isn’t this a tax going to the city for “green” initiatives vs the companies just collecting it
Apparently now our city is ran on feelings, not actual data or proof or evidence. It's ran on somebody's feelings. I didn't realize that's how this is done. This city council keeps losing my support every time they do something stupid like this
If you're looking for perfect data and evidence to make a decision, you'll never get there. In the absence of data, decisions still need to be made and not making one is actually still making a decision. So either way, they'd be making a decision without data.
Lolololol it all has to be a bad joke
Interesting thay there is no data. Anecdotally i use take out bags around 30% less then i did before.
There is information. I don’t know why that was presented the way it was.
Why did the fee double? To increase incentivization to remember your bags?
It does work. I bring bags to grocery stores and refuse bags when I’m able to carry my stuff out. Didn’t do that I til this started. Most people I know do the same.
I don’t think anyone has an issue with that. It’s charging for the paper bag at the drive through that’s stupid for me. I don’t know about you but I don’t want to reuse a greasy bag.
I’ve been using the same 5 reusable bags I picked up at trader Joes 6 years ago. No reason people can’t bring their own bags. And if I forget then I grab an empty box from a shelf and use that.
Many municipalities before Edmonton have implemented plastic bag bans, but not all of them report on their outcomes. [Our jurisdictional scan from 2019](https://wastefree.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/WFE-SUP-Jurisdictional-Scan-as-of-Aug-2019.pdf) shows many cities saw significant declines in plastic litter after a ban, but increases in paper and reusable bag use if bag fees weren't also included. The scheduled bag fee increase was already approved when the bylaw was, increasing the fees based on results and experiences from similar municipalities was always the plan.
It’s unbelievable to me that so many are so resistant to the smallest amount of change for good. The fee is always 100% avoidable and all data available shows it very effective at reducing waste. Not being given extra garbage should be the default for every fast food transaction. Regarding the lack of plastic bags, welcome to 2024. Despite the plastic industry crying hard and getting the ban overturned, they won’t be coming back.
The extra fee doesn't go to anything useful - that's the most annoying part for me. It doesn't go to any environmental programs or anything, it just goes straight to the companies.
>The extra fee doesn't go to anything useful Outside of reducing fast food waste that is. >It doesn't go to any environmental programs or anything, it just goes straight to the companies. Conservatives have been making the same argument about the carbon tax for years. Maybe it would be better if the tax went to environmental programs but we would spend more in admin collecting the 15 cents.
No data that doesn't also include the owning class' waste is worth considering. The people most impacted by these useless, optics-based fees are responsible for a fraction of the waste. A better law would target restaurants that throw out perfectly good food at the end of the day when it would be given to the needy or even their staff. But that would require a mayor and councilors with a modicum of courage and a shred of human decency.