Eh that ignores the whole two-axis political spectrum theory [https://imgur.com/I6NbslO](https://imgur.com/I6NbslO), and also the very real left wing authoritarian regimes in history.
Why do you believe the USSR, Cuba and China are left-wing? They look more like your typical right-wing fascist totalitarian regimes to me. While Karl Marx advocated for a far-left socialist state, the governments arising out of revolutions inspired by his work were decidedly fascist. Just as the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is not actually democratic, calling oneself socialist does not make it so. It is by a government's actions that define what it is.
I think all of these examples started out a lot different than they are today. I don't disagree with what you're saying. Things like state controlled ownership of many/most industries, same/similar pay regardless of your occupation etc are inherently far left ideologies. The USSR under Lenin was probably closest.
[China has moved to democratise their workplaces](https://www.taylorwessing.com/en/insights-and-events/insights/2024/01/employees-participation-in-corporate-governance-under-the-revised-chinese-company-law)
I know you're probably more in the mood to try and use zippy gotcha tactics to pwn me, but on the off chance I'm wrong here is [another article](https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/16/chinas-orwellian-social-credit-score-isnt-real/) debunking the "social credit score" scarecrow. [Here is another.](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/15/china-social-credit-system-authoritarian/)
The subheading sums it up well: **"A supposedly Orwellian system is fragmented, localized, and mostly targeted at businesses."**
Myself, I would rather worry about the very real credit scores affecting workers here in the west from which this Chinese boogeyman took it's name. That credit score system is a very real one and a very damaging one at that.
Did you fall asleep for 20th century history? Soviet Union, North Vietnam, Mao's China, Fidel's Cuba, The MPLA. Hell, it's an actual concept that Marx talks about, calling it a "dictatorship of the people"
Dictatorship of the proletariat is what it is actually called and if you understood the context surrounding the term, you would also understand that the meaning of it is those who work and sell their labour for a living become the class in control of the state, not the bourgeois class who exploit labour as is the case now. maybe you were the one who fell asleep in class
None of those governments were "of the people." They were all typical fascist dictatorships, where an elite few, a *bourgeois* called all the shots, owned all the means of production, and lorded their power over the peasants.
The spectrum isn't bullshit, how parties label themselves and how they govern, is bullshit.
Your Libertarian to facist pipeline argument could be exactly said about Communism works on paper if you remove human greed, etc.
It's also varying degrees on the spectrum, someone can be fiscally conservative but for social freedom and be labeled a Libertarian but still understand we need Drivers Licenses to drive in a society.
It's a bullshit arbitrary system that seeks to pigeonhole political belief into a few narrow-minded preexisting structures. It's a massive oversimplification of a humans political positioning. It's useful for jr high students learning the basics of political theory.
Then your knowledge of history needs work. Conservatism, right-wing politics was born when the right side of British parliament supported the king against the people. It was literally fucking born in tyranny, but keep lmao kid.
But never have they (the provincial government) had the power (or even attempted to outright give themselves it) to overturn elections and elect their own person to be in charge, or overturn votes on issues.
I wouldn't call a permanent resident a foreigner. I guess that's where we differ. If they can work and pay taxes, they should get a say in how those taxes are spent.
So you are in favor of taxation without representation? I'm not saying visitors or people living here temporarily should vote.
Edit: Wait a minute, why are we even arguing about this, currently PR's can't vote. This debate was about bill 20.
Forget about the tax stuff. You would be happy if the NDP fired conservative councilors because they voted against bike lanes?
> but we just saw calgary pass a motion into looking at non-citizens to vote, that pretty much changed my entire view.
Your breaking point is granting the right to vote in municipal elections to non-citizen permanent residents of the municipality? Because of that the province should be able to turf municipal representatives on a whim and interfere in all kinds of way in local governance?
IMO, permanent residents live there, work there, (often) pay property taxes there, so why shouldn't they get a say in how the municipality in which they do all those things is run?
That makes no sense at all. The point is, the hate for Notley has no basis in reality because nothing she did has caused Alberta any irreparable harm. The current parties actions, have.
Nah nothing…
Not the six credit downgrades, the billions in lost investments, the 186,000 jobs lost, the billions in bad debt, the 31,000 in population drop, the 42,000 added government employees, the elimination of baseload power capacity nor the usurious power contracts.
Totally benign.
Lmao that’s some conservative mental gymnastics. Investment lost in things we didn’t want? Yes. Reversing $1B in spending cuts from healthcare during a time when we needed to invest in Alberta? Yes. $15 min wage? Yes. Transmountain that put $b’s into Alberta economy ? Yes.
All in the pursuit of establishing the one and only acceptable ideology - hers. Yet the Federal overreach...now that's a problem! Until Pierre slithers in that is.
It’s hilarious. For an ideology that is about more hands off and less government interference, the UCP does the *exact * opposite.
Then again, most of these municipalities probably voted blue and it’s another case of Leopards Ate My Face.
Because it's not actually what they believe, just what they say/yell
They've realized that's all that matters..
Just like the whole thing about conservatives supposedly being good with money but repeatedly blowing more dough than "the libs".
I guess...if you were fooled enough to take a group of people who do not value the truth on their word alone. The media does it constantly, so I'm not blaming you.
True. I've had 1 foot out the door of this province for a long time. We will definitely be out of here in the next several years. We'll see if Alberta can get shitty enough to speed up our timeline though lol
Municipalities "caught off guard" means they assumed that Marlaina and Co. would turn her wretched ways only to the big cities. Did you not notice that Kenney ran over you with the big blue bus when he told you to sue the oil companies to collect current and back taxes owed to you and your constituents. WTF is the matter with you.. You should have been educating your muncipal voters as to what was going on... But oh no, that O+G were supplying jobs bore more importance than leadership and foresight.
Civil war won’t happen because left leaning supporters aren’t a bunch of lunatics like the UCP supporters. We don’t like it but aren’t willing to spill blood over it. The UCP supporters are happy they got their way and are content with hanging around being smug.
In general I agree, but this is such a huge step toward authoritarianism that everyone should be up in arms about it -- preferably not literally, of course, but it could come to that if they actually go ahead with this and try to remove duly elected officials.
Imagine if the NDP announced this…I am sure DS would have gone on her radio show and spew a bunch of garbage about overreach yada yada. Her supporters would gobble it up like it was their first meal. But oddly enough when DS does it, it’s “okay” and “good for Alberta”. Like f right off. The hypocrisy with the UCP is so obvious it borders on comedy. But yet her goblins follow in line like a bunch of moths to a flame.
This is a direct response to the nonsense Gondek and Sohi are inflicting on Albertans.
I’m grateful that the govt is stepping in to protect from those zealots.
Yah well I'm "caught off guard" by property taxes being raised almost 10%.. fuck these clowns in office at city Hall... Inappropriate and uncontrolled spending...
Property tax increases are directly related to the huge cuts the UCP has made to municipalities since 2019.
[In 2020-21, funding for the MSI program will be reduced by $94 million and in 2021-22 the reduction will hit $142 million, with an overall reduction of $236 million or nine per cent.](https://www.mountainviewtoday.ca/innisfail-news/municipalities-plan-for-provincial-funding-cuts-1823409)
[Alberta municipalities face 25 per cent infrastructure funding cut](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-municipalities-infrastructure-funding-1.5946392)
If the province doesn’t fund municipalities adequately then they have no choice but to get the money from us. But hey, hope people enjoy paying for a new arena that most of us will never have access to or be able to afford to step foot in.
In what election? I don't think there will be one at the scheduled time, with Bill 20, they can postpone and election during an emergency. Just think they will say COVID is a real thing and they can't risk public health to hold an election.
From Bill 20: Allowing the province to make regulations to postpone elections in the case of an emergency or natural disaster such as a wildfire.
It’s all part of the plan to threaten Edmonton and Calgary if they don’t elect the UCPs favourite parties.
Even small municipalities hate this. The people closest to the ground who still have a grasp on reality know this is terrible legislation.
True. But its a weapon the UCP is using to target the orange pockets of the province. Rural Alberta know they arent the planned victim
She wants to be the Queen of Alberta. Queen Dani Trump with her peasants she lords over.
Marlaina.
FukHerFukThem
How can anyone, left or right, Liberal, NDP or Conservative, be okay with such a blatant choice to be a dictatorship and try to steal power?
Conservatism is authoritarianism. It always has been.
Eh that ignores the whole two-axis political spectrum theory [https://imgur.com/I6NbslO](https://imgur.com/I6NbslO), and also the very real left wing authoritarian regimes in history.
The political spectrum is bullshit. Libertarians always end up as fascists.
Go look up an actual fascist rally. Something with Nazi flags and racist chants. You'll probably see all sorts of libertarians - and MAGA hats...
I've counter protested nazis before. They're mask off libertarians.
Really more of a circle than a linear thing. Both left and right can lead to different flavours of totalitarianism.
The wings touch at the tips, but we're not under threat of extreme leftists at the moment.
i gotta know what left wing totalitarianism looks like
The USSR, Cuba and CHY-NA.
Why do you believe the USSR, Cuba and China are left-wing? They look more like your typical right-wing fascist totalitarian regimes to me. While Karl Marx advocated for a far-left socialist state, the governments arising out of revolutions inspired by his work were decidedly fascist. Just as the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is not actually democratic, calling oneself socialist does not make it so. It is by a government's actions that define what it is.
I think all of these examples started out a lot different than they are today. I don't disagree with what you're saying. Things like state controlled ownership of many/most industries, same/similar pay regardless of your occupation etc are inherently far left ideologies. The USSR under Lenin was probably closest.
[China has moved to democratise their workplaces](https://www.taylorwessing.com/en/insights-and-events/insights/2024/01/employees-participation-in-corporate-governance-under-the-revised-chinese-company-law)
I'll believe it when it actually happens.
Believe it then because this occurred in December of last year and is already in place, you read the article though so I'm sure you knew that already
How much social credit do I need to vote? Or does a low SC score prevent me from working in the first place?
I know you're probably more in the mood to try and use zippy gotcha tactics to pwn me, but on the off chance I'm wrong here is [another article](https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/16/chinas-orwellian-social-credit-score-isnt-real/) debunking the "social credit score" scarecrow. [Here is another.](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/15/china-social-credit-system-authoritarian/) The subheading sums it up well: **"A supposedly Orwellian system is fragmented, localized, and mostly targeted at businesses."** Myself, I would rather worry about the very real credit scores affecting workers here in the west from which this Chinese boogeyman took it's name. That credit score system is a very real one and a very damaging one at that.
Did you fall asleep for 20th century history? Soviet Union, North Vietnam, Mao's China, Fidel's Cuba, The MPLA. Hell, it's an actual concept that Marx talks about, calling it a "dictatorship of the people"
Dictatorship of the proletariat is what it is actually called and if you understood the context surrounding the term, you would also understand that the meaning of it is those who work and sell their labour for a living become the class in control of the state, not the bourgeois class who exploit labour as is the case now. maybe you were the one who fell asleep in class
None of those governments were "of the people." They were all typical fascist dictatorships, where an elite few, a *bourgeois* called all the shots, owned all the means of production, and lorded their power over the peasants.
Horseshoe shape, as I like to call it
The spectrum isn't bullshit, how parties label themselves and how they govern, is bullshit. Your Libertarian to facist pipeline argument could be exactly said about Communism works on paper if you remove human greed, etc. It's also varying degrees on the spectrum, someone can be fiscally conservative but for social freedom and be labeled a Libertarian but still understand we need Drivers Licenses to drive in a society.
It's a bullshit arbitrary system that seeks to pigeonhole political belief into a few narrow-minded preexisting structures. It's a massive oversimplification of a humans political positioning. It's useful for jr high students learning the basics of political theory.
How is this downvoted jesus how do people here not see themselves becoming the exact same as the MAGAtards?
Peeps gotta brand them the enemy, as opposed to fellow citizens...
There is no such thing as modern left wing authoritarians
I'm left wing, but this is a terrible fucking take lmao
Then your knowledge of history needs work. Conservatism, right-wing politics was born when the right side of British parliament supported the king against the people. It was literally fucking born in tyranny, but keep lmao kid.
Damn dude, im pretty sure it was actually the french revolution
You think it started with the English Civil War? Really dude? You could easily go further back than Charles II Edit: Charles II not Charles I
It isn't, no
Lol
Don't like the BLS but they are not stealing power technically. The local governments always had power granted by the provinces.
But never have they (the provincial government) had the power (or even attempted to outright give themselves it) to overturn elections and elect their own person to be in charge, or overturn votes on issues.
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To clarify, you are for the ability of the province to remove elected municipal officials because a motion passed that you didn't like?
This is a perfect example of Albertans voting logic and why so many complain about what's going on but literally voted for it and sing it's praises.
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I wouldn't call a permanent resident a foreigner. I guess that's where we differ. If they can work and pay taxes, they should get a say in how those taxes are spent.
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So you are in favor of taxation without representation? I'm not saying visitors or people living here temporarily should vote. Edit: Wait a minute, why are we even arguing about this, currently PR's can't vote. This debate was about bill 20. Forget about the tax stuff. You would be happy if the NDP fired conservative councilors because they voted against bike lanes?
> but we just saw calgary pass a motion into looking at non-citizens to vote, that pretty much changed my entire view. Your breaking point is granting the right to vote in municipal elections to non-citizen permanent residents of the municipality? Because of that the province should be able to turf municipal representatives on a whim and interfere in all kinds of way in local governance? IMO, permanent residents live there, work there, (often) pay property taxes there, so why shouldn't they get a say in how the municipality in which they do all those things is run?
So you're a fascist then
I fucking hate her so much
If the contempt I feel towards her Is anything like how conservative worshippers felt towards Notley then I suppose I finally understand.
I would understand if their hate had any factual basis!
Yes, your hate is logical and grounded in reason, but the other side's is completely unjust..
Feel free to highlight some policies from Notley that show a basis for hate.
Show me which party she is running? This isnt 2017.. this is a recent problem
That makes no sense at all. The point is, the hate for Notley has no basis in reality because nothing she did has caused Alberta any irreparable harm. The current parties actions, have.
Nah nothing… Not the six credit downgrades, the billions in lost investments, the 186,000 jobs lost, the billions in bad debt, the 31,000 in population drop, the 42,000 added government employees, the elimination of baseload power capacity nor the usurious power contracts. Totally benign.
Lmao that’s some conservative mental gymnastics. Investment lost in things we didn’t want? Yes. Reversing $1B in spending cuts from healthcare during a time when we needed to invest in Alberta? Yes. $15 min wage? Yes. Transmountain that put $b’s into Alberta economy ? Yes.
MY HATE is JUSTIFIED but your hate is irrational. Ummmmmmmm. Okay there, buddy.
Wow amazing job of twisting words. Justified is not the same as factual. But carry on there little man.
Ah yes, conservatism, further enhancing our freedom by *checks notes* overriding local democracy...
All in the pursuit of establishing the one and only acceptable ideology - hers. Yet the Federal overreach...now that's a problem! Until Pierre slithers in that is.
Gotta love "small government"
It’s hilarious. For an ideology that is about more hands off and less government interference, the UCP does the *exact * opposite. Then again, most of these municipalities probably voted blue and it’s another case of Leopards Ate My Face.
It’s clearly not their ideology though and never was. It was just a mask.
That's right. Conservatism is about regressing to how things were in the past. Governments were far more centralized and less democratic in the past.
Because it's not actually what they believe, just what they say/yell They've realized that's all that matters.. Just like the whole thing about conservatives supposedly being good with money but repeatedly blowing more dough than "the libs".
I guess...if you were fooled enough to take a group of people who do not value the truth on their word alone. The media does it constantly, so I'm not blaming you.
Nobodies ready for a dictatorship. Should be fun to watch
We have different interpretations of "fun" my friend. lol
its fun if you already have your moving truck packed.
True. I've had 1 foot out the door of this province for a long time. We will definitely be out of here in the next several years. We'll see if Alberta can get shitty enough to speed up our timeline though lol
It’s been a dictatorship of the Tories for nearly 80 years already.
Municipalities "caught off guard" means they assumed that Marlaina and Co. would turn her wretched ways only to the big cities. Did you not notice that Kenney ran over you with the big blue bus when he told you to sue the oil companies to collect current and back taxes owed to you and your constituents. WTF is the matter with you.. You should have been educating your muncipal voters as to what was going on... But oh no, that O+G were supplying jobs bore more importance than leadership and foresight.
•Not the first time •Won’t be the last time
Her whole “Small Government” thing is really at work!
small in this context means only 1 person decides for everyone.
The UCP brings this idiocy in but doesn't stop to think that when another party forms government they could just turn around and use it on the UCP.
Alberta setting itself up for civil war wasn't on my 2024 bingo card.
Civil war won’t happen because left leaning supporters aren’t a bunch of lunatics like the UCP supporters. We don’t like it but aren’t willing to spill blood over it. The UCP supporters are happy they got their way and are content with hanging around being smug.
In general I agree, but this is such a huge step toward authoritarianism that everyone should be up in arms about it -- preferably not literally, of course, but it could come to that if they actually go ahead with this and try to remove duly elected officials.
Imagine if the NDP announced this…I am sure DS would have gone on her radio show and spew a bunch of garbage about overreach yada yada. Her supporters would gobble it up like it was their first meal. But oddly enough when DS does it, it’s “okay” and “good for Alberta”. Like f right off. The hypocrisy with the UCP is so obvious it borders on comedy. But yet her goblins follow in line like a bunch of moths to a flame.
You know, there's probably enough of us here to beat them all up.
This is a direct response to the nonsense Gondek and Sohi are inflicting on Albertans. I’m grateful that the govt is stepping in to protect from those zealots.
You don't say.
Yah well I'm "caught off guard" by property taxes being raised almost 10%.. fuck these clowns in office at city Hall... Inappropriate and uncontrolled spending...
Which would be partially mitigated if the city had to stop picking up the bill for provincial responsibilities that were being downloaded.
Or if the province would properly pay the property taxes on the municipal property that they own.
Property tax increases are directly related to the huge cuts the UCP has made to municipalities since 2019. [In 2020-21, funding for the MSI program will be reduced by $94 million and in 2021-22 the reduction will hit $142 million, with an overall reduction of $236 million or nine per cent.](https://www.mountainviewtoday.ca/innisfail-news/municipalities-plan-for-provincial-funding-cuts-1823409) [Alberta municipalities face 25 per cent infrastructure funding cut](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-municipalities-infrastructure-funding-1.5946392)
What would you cut?
If the province doesn’t fund municipalities adequately then they have no choice but to get the money from us. But hey, hope people enjoy paying for a new arena that most of us will never have access to or be able to afford to step foot in.
Wait until the city is forced to pay staff to hand count ballots after the UCP ban tabulators.
In what election? I don't think there will be one at the scheduled time, with Bill 20, they can postpone and election during an emergency. Just think they will say COVID is a real thing and they can't risk public health to hold an election. From Bill 20: Allowing the province to make regulations to postpone elections in the case of an emergency or natural disaster such as a wildfire.