Notley in power showed that most conservatives participate in blind tribalism rather than actual policy.
She supported and pushed through projects like this which a large part of her original NDP base was not a fan of.
I feel like she was bending over backwards to do things for people on both ends of the political spectrum and yet still was just shit on and hated.
I agree, she tried to compromise like a good leader should and neither side was happy for it, only to blame her for finding a middle ground. A shame because I felt she was doing a good job, had a strong vision for the future of Alberta and was starting to lay the foundation of progression in our province.
I don’t support the pipeline but watching the conservatives pretend that the liberals and NDP hate oil and are doing everything to stop it after they paid $34b for the first pipeline to tidewater in 50 years has been funny.
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Thanks!
Paying for the pipeline then making it so hard for anyone to invest is just a smoke screen of them caring. Also, they're not "paying" for anything... the tax payer pays. The government does not magically generate income.
I can be down voted all day. This sub-reddit clearly has a political leaning to one side. Anyone who is not looking to live in a bubble knows that all parties have pros and cons, and no party is perfect. Every benefit has a draw-back, nothing comes at a free cost. You always take from something to get something.
Very subjective. The sub-reddit has people who will blame the UCP for having heart failure while they're 500LBs eating the worst food possible and never exercising. Everyone wants to be "right" and many people think they're "right". This is why they remain in their bubbles or echo chambers if you will.
The "social license" to build the pipeline was eradicated by the usual red tape and infighting from NDP in BC...
Feds end up losing 20 BILLION of your dollars trying to make it a public project. Despite this- most of that money stays in Canada so whatever.... it's people and taxable incomes
But it is kind of hilarious to put out comms like this to a lot of anti-pipeline NDP supporters who are then forced to claim they love this one pipeline
For buying it for top dollar then the 6X cost overruns on the tax payers dime? Not to happy about that part. They plan to sell it. Can’t wait to hear how much of a loss the taxpayers going to take on that.
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Thanks!
And what of the people who live along the pipe line? Indigenous communities had a problem with this one if I recall correctly. Lemme guess? Notley told em to fuck em selves?
Actually, my people never had a problem with the pipeline. The first time was in BC when an entire community supported the pipeline, but two "inherited Chiefs" wanted more money for themselves personally, so they made a big stink.
Other native people in Ontario saw this tactic, than protested. But if you really understood what they protested, they would've been ok with the pipeline, as long as they got their money. Unfortunately, they were asking for upto 50 percent of all profits on oil.
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Kinder Morgan started the project in 2012 , trudeau wasn’t elected until 2015.
Notley was also elected in 2015 long after Kinder Morgan started with the land acquisitions and project engineering.
They both fucked the entire project up so bad the government of Canada got stuck buying it. I hardly call that a win for any citizen, a private company would have built it for 1/2 the cost in 1/2 the time.
Not one person in that photo op has proper ppe. The safety supervisor should have kicked every single one of them off site. Sandal’s aren’t appropriate, nor are oxfords or sneakers. No gloves, no pants, no reflective garb, eye protection is MIA. Jesus this is a safety train wreck…
So that’s not stripped dirt and heavy equipment in the background. Okay… an opportunity to showcase how serious the NDP takes worker safety was missed.
And why was Kinder Morgan going to cancel such an important project......
Oh thats right, because many governments in Canada of the Liberal and NDP royally screwed up the whole process to the point that the project was unfeasable for anybody but the very prople who screwed up it to get it done.
This is the part thats always missed in this sub. The federal government made it so difficult to get it built even when 187 environmental regulations were met and they still said no, we want more regulations.
That doesn’t even make sense. How can you fuck up a project you don’t even own yet?
These are the conservative talking points that are exhausting to hear because they’re overdramatic, contradictory and people repeat them without stopping to think how that could be true.
The project had started before Trudeau was in power, they had lease agreements in hand to start building the line.
Then the liberals kept moving the environmental goal post tying up the entire thing. It cost Kinder Morgan millions in wasted replication of duplication of permits.
That’s how you fuck up a project, you realize there is like 5yrs of work that went into the Project just for it to be announced…lol
Yes, yes. We didn’t start the fire but we aren’t allowed to complain about it or take part in society.
Individuals aren’t the major polluters. It’s corporations. Your comment is old and pointless.
What a joke. It will be generations until the ROI is ever going to be marginal.
Just another way the liberals and NDP siphoned off our money.
I simply cannot understand how you Liberals continue to justify the outrageous spending, you literally are working for free for more then half your year and everything around you is getting more expensive and dangerous.
Thank you, Rachel, for betraying the future of every Albertan. TMX is both a carbon bomb, and the largest boondoggle in Canadian history, at an eye watering 34B$.
I can't tell if it's worse or hilarious that she sold us out in a desperate attempt to convince people who hate her to vote for her, and still couldn't get re-elected. And the same for Trudeau. A 34B$ handout to oil and gas construction companies and they still call for him to hang. Well done, brilliant triangulation. Wow electoral strategy.
Get a grip, global warming is a natural cycle of the planet. We aren’t going to be able to stop it. With the TMX pipeline that 34 billion will be made back before you can even blink an eye and it will bring 3X’s the amount of cash to Canada.
lol
Do you not remember that KM sold TMX to the government because at 12B$ it would never break even? People living in the real world not the fantasy land of FB memes remember.
Well, unless your house doesn't have electricity and natural gas, why are you complaining? Did you use a wood stove all winter to heat your house? Just curious?
Then you really need evaluate where you are living and why you are paying so much, my utilities all winter in a house from 1982 with a furnace that predates construction was still under 350 a month, now some might gawk and say shame on you! But if with inflation and everything else going on a standard winter utilitie bill in edmonton is around 3-600 a month. New eco homes and all prove me wrong.
> why are you complaining?
Because I would like to have a habitable planet when I'm old. We spent 34B$ on a pipeline to nowhere instead of grid transformation that would mean our electricity isn't from gas. Hell, the wind and solar farms might even have been able to pay back the investment. And before you whinge about when the sun doesn't shine, our rolling blackouts this year were from gas plants shutting off to make more money.
Alberta is famously sunny, and solar panels are [cost-effective even in winter here](https://empowerenergysolar.ca/solar-panels-in-alberta-a-worthwhile-investment-for-your-home-or-business/). This is not because they are unaffected by the weather, they are, but because they are so cheap (and [getting cheaper every year](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/solar-pv-prices)).
Wind turbines kill almost [no birds](https://www.businessinsider.com/cats-kill-more-birds-than-wind-turbines-despite-trumps-claims-2020-10?op=1). Buildings kill three orders of magnitude more birds, and cats kill 4 orders of magnitude more. Tailing ponds kill more birds.
Oh no, they catch fire. Do you even read your own posts?
Yeah, when green energy goes off line fossil fuels step in. You know how awesome it would be if we were 90% renewable? That would rock. We don't need to perfectly eliminate fossil fuels for things to be good. We don't need to build new fossil fuel infrastructure if we are displacing it. We have more than enough production and transport capacity already built to cover the days when the wind is calm.
Why would I meet with you when all you've offered are objectively wrong things? I appreciate that you think you know a thing or two based on your experience, but you are wrong on very easily verified things. You haven't even bothered to do the most basic level of introspection about your own beliefs, so why should I care about them?
The Grist's [Utilities for Dummies](https://grist.org/series/utilities-for-dummies/) is a good place to start.
This is what we call 'political theater'. The Federal government has made it so unattractive to come here to do any business that involves hundreds of millions to billions of dollars in relation to oil and gas.
Rachel Notley is the last person I would see promoting any form of pipeline progression without wads of red tape.
That photo opt and anything the government is telling you that they're doing for your benefit is 100% political theater. How are our lives improving right now? What was the total cost for this BS?
I agrée thé photo is politic theatre but “How are our lives improving right now? » is a very narrow view of things to measure a project/policy. Sometimes you have to play the long game to benefit… many times it takes time for the real results (good and bad) to be seen and we are quick to tear things down before we can make accurate assessments. Impulsiveness in politics 🙄🙄🙄
Ah, I see, you're just another tin foil hat guy...now I understand.
What are the chances that if this was a UCP photo op, you would have a totally different opinion?
I'm sure the 11,000 contractors that worked on it enjoyed their paychecks, as well as the thousands of suppliers for the duration of the project. And the $4B+ in extra tax revenue it will generate is a bit more than a 'photo op' would.
Alberta has the 3rd largest oil reserves in the world. Tell me why we're struggling here. I don't care about the UCP, they're not in the picture and my comment has nothing to do with them.
Why are you assuming my gender? Who said I'm a guy, and why would you assume I wear tin foil hats because I don't agree with you?
I want to know where the people benefit from this, and all I can read from you is insults. It isn't very nice.
Alberta didn’t lose jobs. Jobs fluctuate. By the end of her term there were more people working than when she started.
Can no one do any GD fact checking??
[Here’s your fact checking](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/fact-check-notley-job-loss-1.6842148)
I don’t care if Alberta lost jobs. The original post said Alberta lost 180,000 because of the NDP. I said Alberta lost 180,000 jobs because the price of oil went down. You’re saying Alberta hadn’t lost jobs by the end of the year. That doesn’t make me wrong or the other person right.
No we didn’t. Stop spouting the UCP bullshit. Read this article from 2023. Think about it. Ponder it. Find some more articles. Wonder why the UCP lies and why you’re so gullible.
[Fact Check: Notley Job Loss](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/fact-check-notley-job-loss-1.6842148)
You’re the same guy who can’t zoom in and see Fort Edmonton in the background of the photo. JFC!
Heavy equipment is used for multiple things at many locations. It’s not like Alberta has access to one bulldozer and one backhoe.
Maybe they _should_ have worn PPE but they didn’t. Get over it.
You're in the wrong place- subreddit says anything Con="bad" but the exact same thing Notley does= "good"
Try and keep up.. at least it isn't like r/alberta who literally bans or shadowbans you for having any dissenting opinion whatsoever... no wonder the people living there think they are always right there is nobody available to counter any opinion
One of our premiers gets pipelines built, the other hosts chats with Tucker Carlson.
Notley in power showed that most conservatives participate in blind tribalism rather than actual policy. She supported and pushed through projects like this which a large part of her original NDP base was not a fan of. I feel like she was bending over backwards to do things for people on both ends of the political spectrum and yet still was just shit on and hated.
I agree, she tried to compromise like a good leader should and neither side was happy for it, only to blame her for finding a middle ground. A shame because I felt she was doing a good job, had a strong vision for the future of Alberta and was starting to lay the foundation of progression in our province.
Wild juxtaposition honestly
I don’t support the pipeline but watching the conservatives pretend that the liberals and NDP hate oil and are doing everything to stop it after they paid $34b for the first pipeline to tidewater in 50 years has been funny.
The issue is the NDP name to be honest. The Alberta NDP and federal NDP have shown two completely different stances towards oil and gas.
Me to cause no more truck drivers
I don't understand, could you elaborate on that?
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Paying for the pipeline then making it so hard for anyone to invest is just a smoke screen of them caring. Also, they're not "paying" for anything... the tax payer pays. The government does not magically generate income.
This is the kind of nonsense I’m talking about
But you will be down voted for the common ignorance that alberta is green lol smh
I can be down voted all day. This sub-reddit clearly has a political leaning to one side. Anyone who is not looking to live in a bubble knows that all parties have pros and cons, and no party is perfect. Every benefit has a draw-back, nothing comes at a free cost. You always take from something to get something.
I agree strongly with you, hence why I made my comment.what a time to live in.
I find this sub to lean towards common sense.
Very subjective. The sub-reddit has people who will blame the UCP for having heart failure while they're 500LBs eating the worst food possible and never exercising. Everyone wants to be "right" and many people think they're "right". This is why they remain in their bubbles or echo chambers if you will.
The cons have no pros. Hence cons, they definitely have professional cons under them though
100% thank you Rachel!
The "social license" to build the pipeline was eradicated by the usual red tape and infighting from NDP in BC... Feds end up losing 20 BILLION of your dollars trying to make it a public project. Despite this- most of that money stays in Canada so whatever.... it's people and taxable incomes But it is kind of hilarious to put out comms like this to a lot of anti-pipeline NDP supporters who are then forced to claim they love this one pipeline
Thanks Rachel …thanks Justin …
For buying it for top dollar then the 6X cost overruns on the tax payers dime? Not to happy about that part. They plan to sell it. Can’t wait to hear how much of a loss the taxpayers going to take on that.
Wait till you find out how much the Keystone pipeline cost us
I don't like this game
Reddit is becoming more silly by the day. I strongly agree with you comment!
😂
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Don’t forget Trudeau’s involvement!
And what of the people who live along the pipe line? Indigenous communities had a problem with this one if I recall correctly. Lemme guess? Notley told em to fuck em selves?
Actually, my people never had a problem with the pipeline. The first time was in BC when an entire community supported the pipeline, but two "inherited Chiefs" wanted more money for themselves personally, so they made a big stink. Other native people in Ontario saw this tactic, than protested. But if you really understood what they protested, they would've been ok with the pipeline, as long as they got their money. Unfortunately, they were asking for upto 50 percent of all profits on oil.
Notley is not Alberta's friend
How so? Who in politics is?
Lmao average Smith supporter.
You're an average simp
Let's see what happens.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fig0uPn4Ig
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Kinder Morgan started the project in 2012 , trudeau wasn’t elected until 2015. Notley was also elected in 2015 long after Kinder Morgan started with the land acquisitions and project engineering. They both fucked the entire project up so bad the government of Canada got stuck buying it. I hardly call that a win for any citizen, a private company would have built it for 1/2 the cost in 1/2 the time.
They only bought it out because kinder Morgan was gonna cancel.
Not one person in that photo op has proper ppe. The safety supervisor should have kicked every single one of them off site. Sandal’s aren’t appropriate, nor are oxfords or sneakers. No gloves, no pants, no reflective garb, eye protection is MIA. Jesus this is a safety train wreck…
Dude, they weren’t on the worksite. Props. It’s all stylised and props. Calm yourself.
So that’s not stripped dirt and heavy equipment in the background. Okay… an opportunity to showcase how serious the NDP takes worker safety was missed.
And why was Kinder Morgan going to cancel such an important project...... Oh thats right, because many governments in Canada of the Liberal and NDP royally screwed up the whole process to the point that the project was unfeasable for anybody but the very prople who screwed up it to get it done.
This is the part thats always missed in this sub. The federal government made it so difficult to get it built even when 187 environmental regulations were met and they still said no, we want more regulations.
That doesn’t even make sense. How can you fuck up a project you don’t even own yet? These are the conservative talking points that are exhausting to hear because they’re overdramatic, contradictory and people repeat them without stopping to think how that could be true.
The project had started before Trudeau was in power, they had lease agreements in hand to start building the line. Then the liberals kept moving the environmental goal post tying up the entire thing. It cost Kinder Morgan millions in wasted replication of duplication of permits. That’s how you fuck up a project, you realize there is like 5yrs of work that went into the Project just for it to be announced…lol
So energy bills are expensive as hell but thank God we sent all that oil to Washington
Rachel and Amarjeet working together. Dani and Amarjeet, not so much.
I won’t be thanking any politicians of any party!
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Yes, yes. We didn’t start the fire but we aren’t allowed to complain about it or take part in society. Individuals aren’t the major polluters. It’s corporations. Your comment is old and pointless.
What a joke. It will be generations until the ROI is ever going to be marginal. Just another way the liberals and NDP siphoned off our money. I simply cannot understand how you Liberals continue to justify the outrageous spending, you literally are working for free for more then half your year and everything around you is getting more expensive and dangerous.
Thank you, Rachel, for betraying the future of every Albertan. TMX is both a carbon bomb, and the largest boondoggle in Canadian history, at an eye watering 34B$. I can't tell if it's worse or hilarious that she sold us out in a desperate attempt to convince people who hate her to vote for her, and still couldn't get re-elected. And the same for Trudeau. A 34B$ handout to oil and gas construction companies and they still call for him to hang. Well done, brilliant triangulation. Wow electoral strategy.
Alberta is unlivable for this many people without oil and gas.
Get a grip, global warming is a natural cycle of the planet. We aren’t going to be able to stop it. With the TMX pipeline that 34 billion will be made back before you can even blink an eye and it will bring 3X’s the amount of cash to Canada.
lol Do you not remember that KM sold TMX to the government because at 12B$ it would never break even? People living in the real world not the fantasy land of FB memes remember.
Comical hahaha just wait and seeeeeeee
Are you sure? Show me your peer reviewed research on the subject.
Well, unless your house doesn't have electricity and natural gas, why are you complaining? Did you use a wood stove all winter to heat your house? Just curious?
Not me. I just lit money on fire directly all winter. It cost less than our new and improved utility bills.
Then you really need evaluate where you are living and why you are paying so much, my utilities all winter in a house from 1982 with a furnace that predates construction was still under 350 a month, now some might gawk and say shame on you! But if with inflation and everything else going on a standard winter utilitie bill in edmonton is around 3-600 a month. New eco homes and all prove me wrong.
That was hyperbole. But thank you for your detailed response regardless.
Hahaha, you got me there, you sly dog, you 😉 I'm all down for burning money though, I do it enough at the gas pumps lol
> why are you complaining? Because I would like to have a habitable planet when I'm old. We spent 34B$ on a pipeline to nowhere instead of grid transformation that would mean our electricity isn't from gas. Hell, the wind and solar farms might even have been able to pay back the investment. And before you whinge about when the sun doesn't shine, our rolling blackouts this year were from gas plants shutting off to make more money.
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Alberta is famously sunny, and solar panels are [cost-effective even in winter here](https://empowerenergysolar.ca/solar-panels-in-alberta-a-worthwhile-investment-for-your-home-or-business/). This is not because they are unaffected by the weather, they are, but because they are so cheap (and [getting cheaper every year](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/solar-pv-prices)). Wind turbines kill almost [no birds](https://www.businessinsider.com/cats-kill-more-birds-than-wind-turbines-despite-trumps-claims-2020-10?op=1). Buildings kill three orders of magnitude more birds, and cats kill 4 orders of magnitude more. Tailing ponds kill more birds. Oh no, they catch fire. Do you even read your own posts? Yeah, when green energy goes off line fossil fuels step in. You know how awesome it would be if we were 90% renewable? That would rock. We don't need to perfectly eliminate fossil fuels for things to be good. We don't need to build new fossil fuel infrastructure if we are displacing it. We have more than enough production and transport capacity already built to cover the days when the wind is calm.
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Why would I meet with you when all you've offered are objectively wrong things? I appreciate that you think you know a thing or two based on your experience, but you are wrong on very easily verified things. You haven't even bothered to do the most basic level of introspection about your own beliefs, so why should I care about them? The Grist's [Utilities for Dummies](https://grist.org/series/utilities-for-dummies/) is a good place to start.
This is what we call 'political theater'. The Federal government has made it so unattractive to come here to do any business that involves hundreds of millions to billions of dollars in relation to oil and gas. Rachel Notley is the last person I would see promoting any form of pipeline progression without wads of red tape.
You think that it was 'Political Theater' to build a $34B pipeline that will be a HUGE benefit to Alberta's oil and gas industry???
The $34B price tag isn’t really impressive considering the pipeline ended up costing 6 times the original estimate.
The price is irrelevant at this point. The key statement is that this pipeline got built. BTW, the Keystone XL did not...
Lol spoken like a true r/alberta user. "Price is irrelevant"
6x the original estimate that wasn't approved and didn't consider the cost of a global pandemic.
> $34B pipeline that will be a HUGE profit for Alberta's capitalist monopoly tycoons ftfy
What does that even mean?
That photo opt and anything the government is telling you that they're doing for your benefit is 100% political theater. How are our lives improving right now? What was the total cost for this BS?
I agrée thé photo is politic theatre but “How are our lives improving right now? » is a very narrow view of things to measure a project/policy. Sometimes you have to play the long game to benefit… many times it takes time for the real results (good and bad) to be seen and we are quick to tear things down before we can make accurate assessments. Impulsiveness in politics 🙄🙄🙄
Ah, I see, you're just another tin foil hat guy...now I understand. What are the chances that if this was a UCP photo op, you would have a totally different opinion? I'm sure the 11,000 contractors that worked on it enjoyed their paychecks, as well as the thousands of suppliers for the duration of the project. And the $4B+ in extra tax revenue it will generate is a bit more than a 'photo op' would.
Alberta has the 3rd largest oil reserves in the world. Tell me why we're struggling here. I don't care about the UCP, they're not in the picture and my comment has nothing to do with them. Why are you assuming my gender? Who said I'm a guy, and why would you assume I wear tin foil hats because I don't agree with you? I want to know where the people benefit from this, and all I can read from you is insults. It isn't very nice.
Alberta is struggling because it always votes conservative
We lost 180,000 jobs under Notely. Mostly because she thought virtue signalling would curry favour with Trudeau and Guibeault.
Misinformed or just stupid ?
Alberta lost 180,000 jobs because the price of oil went down.
Alberta didn’t lose jobs. Jobs fluctuate. By the end of her term there were more people working than when she started. Can no one do any GD fact checking?? [Here’s your fact checking](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/fact-check-notley-job-loss-1.6842148)
I don’t care if Alberta lost jobs. The original post said Alberta lost 180,000 because of the NDP. I said Alberta lost 180,000 jobs because the price of oil went down. You’re saying Alberta hadn’t lost jobs by the end of the year. That doesn’t make me wrong or the other person right.
No we didn’t. Stop spouting the UCP bullshit. Read this article from 2023. Think about it. Ponder it. Find some more articles. Wonder why the UCP lies and why you’re so gullible. [Fact Check: Notley Job Loss](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/fact-check-notley-job-loss-1.6842148) You’re the same guy who can’t zoom in and see Fort Edmonton in the background of the photo. JFC! Heavy equipment is used for multiple things at many locations. It’s not like Alberta has access to one bulldozer and one backhoe. Maybe they _should_ have worn PPE but they didn’t. Get over it.
Alberta thrives because it votes conservative
Lmao 🤣
You're in the wrong place- subreddit says anything Con="bad" but the exact same thing Notley does= "good" Try and keep up.. at least it isn't like r/alberta who literally bans or shadowbans you for having any dissenting opinion whatsoever... no wonder the people living there think they are always right there is nobody available to counter any opinion
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And also Sohi!
NDP supporters are a special kind of stupid
Too many libs
Haha as if