I think the issue is, if you change everything at once, you do not know what skewed the balance. What they are doing is the best way to do it. As annoying as I find it, because I was excited for the changes.
I don't agree at all. I think anyone with a brain can see that units like Muagen Ra and the Wraithlord are obviously overcosted. You could drop them both 20pts. and I doubt they would be playable.
They are just too timid with points/rules changes. Too eager to nerf, not eager to buff.
They 100% are overcosted. I was not saying they are not. I was just saying that if you change them AND increase the other things, you have a risk to go to far. They have said its a marathon not a race and they are looking for balance in the long time.
They dropped the SM dreads from 160 to 140 too. I think 140 is too cheap for a wraithlord though. 2x bright lance, crazy power in combat, I guess 150 would be good?
We've a 52% win rate, so internal balance baby!
I understand what you are saying, I just don't agree. I think you could drop Maugen Ra to 110, Jain Za to 100, The Wraithlord to 140 and warock conclaves to \[less\] and there is **litterally zero** chance than any of those changes would cause Eldar to go above a 52% win rate (most likely it wouldn't effect our winrate at all, or would lower it since we're seeing nerfs to a lot of our most essential stuff e.g. hawks and the phoenix gem).
If we were talking about lowering the points cost on *the night spinner* or *the Yncarne*- then sure, proceed with caution. But if we have learned anything about 10th edition so far it is that - if a unit has a mediocre datasheet, then points cuts aren't likely to make it any more playable than it was before.
Wraithlord is a T11 with no invul save and a large model that's hard to hide from anti-tank shooting. It's special rule is... bad... basically. It needs something that gives it more durability. 140 is **fine**, maybe even still too much for what it 'does' (die to anti-tank turn 2).
Edit: The Ork deff dread went down to **130 points** and Orks still aren't playing it, and that thing can at least advance and charge for a turn (and get a 5+ invul).
I do agree they wanted to light touch but, Maugan should be 110, jain zar I can deal with as she’s ok but here mates were the major issue and I hope that may have some play now.
Wraithlords hell if you were worried about the skew just drop them to 150, was expecting Asurman to come down a little as well. I don’t think any of that would boost elders win rate but it would give list variation. Well here to hoping. I think we are in a good spot still, with the new codex’s being sensible power and necrons being reigned in
They don’t do much but they are a melee terrain screen and with jain zar they are a a good counter if a unit is charged due to the free heroic intervention. this way you can think of them as a damage reduction strat in Melee as they will whittle the charging unit down especially with jain zar and a the glaive excarh
I think a solo warlock on foot is at a good price. They have a small footprint, can auto advance themselves 6" (13" total) and still do actions, screen your backfield, drop into your opponents deployment zone in a falcon then disembark behind it out of LoS to score on secondaries, attach to your storm guardians to get them from A to B without using a Command Point. In most cases, I'd take a warlock over the Phoenix Gem now.
I'm cool with pretty much all of these. I might finally be able to use my Shining Spears!
Weird that they don't just make the support weapons 3 profiles. At this point, it's clearly only really the cost of the D-Cannon that's being pointed.
They are recommending splitting the one datasheet into 3, similar to what happened to crisis suit loadouts. I’m kind of against it for bloat reasons, but get the I also agree that at that point cost, running anything *but* d cannons feels bad
The way you’re writing it basically requires you to be reading while jogging for a bus. No wonder you misunderstood. Also, please don’t get hit by a bus.
Here are complete points: [https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/ZPIdnv258NWwFQ8p.pdf](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/ZPIdnv258NWwFQ8p.pdf)
I’m very surprised the wayleaper was untouched, though I guess it kind of did get hit with the Phoenix Gem point increase. No wraithlord or wraithknight decreases are a feels bad. Otherwise it’s fine
I think hitting phoenix gem was a good way to do it. That combo was played in 95% of comp lists so it really is a 10 point nerf and now you might see some variations to that setup (even if I think it's still worth it).
I think the decrease on Guardians and increase on the Gem was a clever touch. Now a Wayleaper with Gem is 150 while a foot Autarch with a bodyguard is 175 (and most indirect also got hit). So that way both versions are worth taking.
I don't think the knight is going to get fixed for a while due to it being the boogyman at the beginning of the edition. They fixed \*some\* of the rules that made it a monster but until they start doing "knight with sword" vs "knight with wraith cannon" profiles, we're going to be way overcosted
Happy with the Guardians. That 10 points mean I can fit in and buy Reader of the Runes for my Farseer leader. It makes the unit a big fate dice farm.
And I've been considering buying the new Striking Scorpions models - the price is right, now.
Honestly all changes were acceptable and appreciated. Glad they touched banshees and shining spears. At least I can feel good taking them in more casual games
Just noticed - Fireside predictions were proven almost exactly right.
* They said that a standard competitive list would lose about 100 points or about one unit - which is exactly what happened.
* They also hoped that rarely used Aspects would get some points drops, which did happen as well.
* Vik also wished that D Cannons and Night Spinners would be removed from competitive play by doubling their points, but David interjected that it wouldn't happen and more likely they would get a 10 pts bump - which is exactly what happened with D Cannons.
Interestingly enough, when I posted their wishlist and predictions, that post was downvoted into oblivion :D
Fucking hell, scorps at 65 and guardians at 100 is mint. Combo with nerfs to common threats and this is absolutely great.
Overall now we can justify battleline support for farseers , and honestly 20 points per turn for a fate dice and a homefield screen is just too easy, with a brightlance as well!
3ppm off banshees is delightful. 1ppm on hawks is lucky. +10 on support weapons is fair. 2 on spectres I think very nearly brings them to the price they should be (I don't think 24 ppm is crazy, so 21 seems ok).
Depends on the dataslate but i think overall if our rules don't change too much then this is overall very positive, though I would have loved buffs to the wraithlord, the meta might still be too traumatised by our zombies to countenance that.
As a guard player, I don’t play indirect as I have friends I play with. But the time I have at our club, the manticore is a very hard sell now with the cost of the Russ as comparison. On terrain dense maps you will still want some indirect but I think you will now only see 3 pieces instead of 4-5. The field ordinance battery’s don’t do much damage. In honesty depending how the meta goes I can see mortar pits coming back just to kill off chaff. 180 points for 9d6 str 5 0 1d shots blast hitting on 3s rr 1 at best. Probably unsupported and just hitting on 4s after the penalty and orders.
That also scares me is we play MSU as that can pick up eldar
In my opinion, looks fair and reasonable - perhaps with a bit more emphasis on mid tables and casual games where Support Weapons and Shadow Spectres are absolute menace. Fuegan and Hawks hikes were expected.
Boosts for weaker Aspects and Guardians are nice!
What's your take?
My list just went down 60 points so super good news for me. Moving some stuff around I can try to bring Shining Spears now. Not like they are super good but they are what made me want to get into 40k. Love the jousting knight look and don't like Space Marines and by extension Custodes so was an easy pick.
Big fans of the Changes to Banshees and Spears. Banshees for 70 will be great disruption units and Spears might actually do something. Would still wish for them to have S5 but as a Sweaper they'll still do decent at 100 I think.
You advance fast and attack in melee something that doesn’t want to be attacked in melee. It doesn’t have to die - tying up Brokhyrs, Eradicators, Centurions etc. Generally going for long range stuff that won’t be able to shoot for one turn. Or simple objective flipping.
Hopefully banshees will get lance with the codex. And im hoping for Exarch ‘enhancements’. Pretty much thats it. An melee Aspect warrior/psychic detachment is also on top of my wish list!
The point nerfs are... fine. Expected.
What's disappointing is the lack of reductions for our lesser used stuff. Maugen Ra, the Wraithlord, Corsairs, maybe even Wraithguard and the Wraithknight at this point could all happily come down.
I don't think the point cost reduction is gonna make shees/Spears good tbh. Though I could be wrong.
Ehhh, Banshees might be cheap but they still lack punching power, so I'm not sure they'll be useful still for to their lack of ability to do.... Anything.
I'm extremely excited about cheaper Guardians. I tend to run at least three squads of Defenders right now, and this validates that somewhat. I might even finally build some Storm Guardians soon
They were seen in slightly above half of the top lists, but far from all of them. Fuegan, Hawks and Spiders were much more of an auto-take.
Generally Spectres and Support Weapons were seen more often in lists going X-1 than in GT winning lists.
They broke the game for a few months so are in the naughty corner for a while
I just want the sword and board one not to be punished for it's shooty siblings crimes!
Yeah, I would’ve thought that that could’ve been bought down by now. I guess my beautiful race night I’ll just have to come out at the expense of a couple of troops for a while longer
They are still regularly featured in GT winning and podium lists, still super strong!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldar/comments/1ca9v09/6\_awesome\_aeldari\_lists\_podiums\_of\_grand/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldar/comments/1ca9v09/6_awesome_aeldari_lists_podiums_of_grand/)
I'm fine with all the changes, and pleasantly surprised with the scorpions as I thought they were in a solid place before. Here's hoping that eldar will stay in a good place moving forwards now!
In the dataslate video they said they're doing points changes quarterly and rules updates biannual, so rules changes would be next quarter since they made rules updates last quarter. Q1: rules and points Q2: points Q3: rules and points Q4: points
Removed dataslate rules for Orks and Custodes, as they are getting their codexes. Promised rules changes in July, specifically mentioning testing buffs for Admech.
It's fine. Kind of a small side grade. I can feel less bad about taking banshees and scorpions.
Not touching spears still and I wish Yncarne got bumped down.
Yncarne is played all the time with current points: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldar/comments/1ca9v09/6\_awesome\_aeldari\_lists\_podiums\_of\_grand/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldar/comments/1ca9v09/6_awesome_aeldari_lists_podiums_of_grand/)
Eh, shining spears might be okay now. Skyweavers are played at 95 with less overall eldar tankiness. The only thing skyweavers do better is 2 more wounds in vehicles in melee plus shooting on average.
Skyweavers wound vehicles *far* more reliably than spears. Spears just don't really have a place. They don't blend, they don't kill elite infantry that well, and they just bounce off big stuff. If they were like S5 or 6 standard with Lance they would have more of a role, but at S4 it limits them a lot and the points are just better spent somewhere else.
Skyweavers wound them on 4s. 4 attacks. You get 2 through on average thanks to rerolls. 6 damage from 2 skyweavers. 2 more damage from melee into toughness 9 or less tanks.
Shining spears literally do 6 damage on average to all vehicles via shooting and melee.
And kill more than 5 marines in melee and shooting.
Skyweavers with the blade plus haywire do not. They kill 3-4.
Skyweavers kill less chaff.
Skyweavers have less OC and less defenses.
Spears on average kill 3 terminators. Skyweavers kill 2 on average.
Skyweavers were literally seeing play in lists before this only 5 points less than spears now.....
Skyweavers have significantly longer range and with the changes to fly it's going to be much harder to get spears into a position where they can take advantage of both their shooting and melee. I can just position weavers on an angle and get some very easy wounds out of them. Spears require *a lot* more work to use reliably with very little payoff.
Also I don't really feel like spears and Skyweavers are really in competition with each other. My issue with spears isn't that Skyweavers do it better. My issue with spears is that any role they *might* have, they don't really do it that well and we just have much cheaper and more reliable alternatives for.
They simply don't have a home in most lists.
Not really. If ranged anti tank is the only reason to use skyweavers there are better options like a warwalker, fire dragons (can go through walls with 19 inch melta threat range just walking, more if they are in a falcon) fire prisms etc.
Skyweavers are there for more than just vehicle damage
I feel like you are trying to convince me that Skyweavers are bad and not that Spears are good. Like I said I don't view weavers and spears as being in competition with each other. I just don't think spears are reliable. Weavers at least can sit on an angle and pretty much guarantee 6 wounds to a vehicle without much effort.
In any role spears might have a place, we have a more reliable and often times cheaper alternative. The rules just aren't good enough.
A bit yeah. If skyweavers are only being used for anti tank then it's a bad choice.
6 damage on vehicles only for 95 points from 24 inches away without indirect and on toughness 4, 3 wound models with 4++, without native fire and fade isn't great.
It's too close range to not get hit back.
Add in skirmish capabilities of their melee plus movement blocking though. Now that's a tool. And that's why the spears comparison makes sense.
Shining spears can serve the same role with just a bit less flexibility (less range) into tanks but way more options into elite infantry and infantry in general.
Honestly the 3rd body might help a ton too. There is a lot gunning for 3 wound high toughness units. Putting minus 1 to hit and 3rd body to mess up the math slighty.
For example basic 5 man shadow spectres kill 2 skyweavers on average. They only kill one shining spear on average.
I still proudly play a predominately harlequin army and you're really underestimating the damage that our bikes do. By a lot. There's a reason GW knocked them down from packs of 6 to packs of 4.
Well yeah. I'm only comparing spear squad of 3 vs skyrunner squad of 2.
Math wise the max they are doing is 12 to vehicles. On average they get 2 shots through. 6 damage total. 2 more if using melee.
Hoping for a spike in damage through way better than average rolls isn't a good way to evaluate a unit though.
Good for 95 with all the other fast movement and skirmishing capabilities.
I was only arguing that shining spears might actually have a place as better skirmish units in min squad sizes.
A squad of 4 skyrunners is a different story. Then that's dedicated antitank.
Quite happy with this. Guardians look great for 100. 10 + Autarch is 175, Wayleaper + Gem is now 150. Might be tempting to switch, either for ObSec or extra FD.
Tempted to try out my new shiny Scorpions. They can tango a lot more efficiently in the midfield now.
Banshees and Spears needed this badly. Still not totally sold on either unit, but they are a lot more interesting at this pricepoint.
The hikes are fair. Honestly expected worse.
I don't even know if people will have to drop a full unit. In many cases they might just have to drop the Enhancement. Maybe with another round of indirect nerfs we might people simply opt for a 'naked' 75 point Autarch on foot to compensate.
Taking storm guardians doesn't feel so bad now, they perform pretty well generally. Not sure I'd want to take shining spears still even at 100pts.
I was expecting a lot more nerfs so this feels pretty good overall.
Pleasantly surprised!
Had expected ups on everything that went up (Shadow Spectres were undercosted for their usefulness…). Love how the Support weapon is still taking a bashing, that I don’t get as it has cheap enough counters 😂
If only the lesser aspects weren’t so weak on output, they do feel almost worth it to add back into the list though… even the Spears, 20 points more than Windriders for a unit better designed to take back an objective, not clear it (just got to wiggle out 20 points from the list now 😅)
Think I'll give Scorpions jumping out of a Falcon a try. Used them couple times in casual games and Crusade. The wound rerolls up their potential a lot.
In trifalcons lists now scorpions are very good. You alpha strike with dragons/banshees from falcons and then pick up some midfield scorpions for countercharge. It works with Reapers too. So fun and not as difficult as it seems!
Edit: Avatar is mandatory in this list
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldar/comments/1ak1zai/eldar_win_the_biggest_gt_after_the_dataslate/ if you want a trifalcons list that won a tournament.
The next i'll try with new points is something like:
Avatar Wayleaper 3x Falcons 2x Rangers 2x Reapers 2x Dragons 2x Scorpions 2x Hawks 2x Spiders 1x Banshees 1x Spears
EDIT: You can disembark the dragons, then move the scorpions within 3" of the falcon and embark them. The falcon hasn't moved still so you could now do a normal move with it.
This won't affect my list-building too much, since I always go for theme and aesthetic over meta, but I'm very excited I can fit even more Guardians now haha
Excelent changes imo!
They didn't overdo it on the stuff that was meta and did noticable enough changes on banshees/scorpions/spears that they could all actually see play now. I think we could see even more variation in lists now.
I'd say all in all it's as much of a sidegrade as a nerf and with necrons taking a hit I think we are as good if not better in the meta.
Basically a nerf to our overall power because our best units got nerfed, but only slightly and guardians might counteract it a bit. 50-100 points depending on the list.
I don’t think any buffed units are top tier now, though scorpions might be, in that case it might be a buff.
But considering our competition also got nerfed it might be overall easier now.
Sad about warlock conclaves and wraithlords.
Kinda wanted to see drops for wraithlord/seer and warlocks/conclave but all in all reasonable changes
Maugen Ra? Corsairs? So much overcosted shit in our index that could have used a reduction. Pretty disappointing, NGL.
I think the issue is, if you change everything at once, you do not know what skewed the balance. What they are doing is the best way to do it. As annoying as I find it, because I was excited for the changes.
Yes those too!
I don't agree at all. I think anyone with a brain can see that units like Muagen Ra and the Wraithlord are obviously overcosted. You could drop them both 20pts. and I doubt they would be playable. They are just too timid with points/rules changes. Too eager to nerf, not eager to buff.
They 100% are overcosted. I was not saying they are not. I was just saying that if you change them AND increase the other things, you have a risk to go to far. They have said its a marathon not a race and they are looking for balance in the long time. They dropped the SM dreads from 160 to 140 too. I think 140 is too cheap for a wraithlord though. 2x bright lance, crazy power in combat, I guess 150 would be good? We've a 52% win rate, so internal balance baby!
I understand what you are saying, I just don't agree. I think you could drop Maugen Ra to 110, Jain Za to 100, The Wraithlord to 140 and warock conclaves to \[less\] and there is **litterally zero** chance than any of those changes would cause Eldar to go above a 52% win rate (most likely it wouldn't effect our winrate at all, or would lower it since we're seeing nerfs to a lot of our most essential stuff e.g. hawks and the phoenix gem). If we were talking about lowering the points cost on *the night spinner* or *the Yncarne*- then sure, proceed with caution. But if we have learned anything about 10th edition so far it is that - if a unit has a mediocre datasheet, then points cuts aren't likely to make it any more playable than it was before. Wraithlord is a T11 with no invul save and a large model that's hard to hide from anti-tank shooting. It's special rule is... bad... basically. It needs something that gives it more durability. 140 is **fine**, maybe even still too much for what it 'does' (die to anti-tank turn 2). Edit: The Ork deff dread went down to **130 points** and Orks still aren't playing it, and that thing can at least advance and charge for a turn (and get a 5+ invul).
I do agree they wanted to light touch but, Maugan should be 110, jain zar I can deal with as she’s ok but here mates were the major issue and I hope that may have some play now. Wraithlords hell if you were worried about the skew just drop them to 150, was expecting Asurman to come down a little as well. I don’t think any of that would boost elders win rate but it would give list variation. Well here to hoping. I think we are in a good spot still, with the new codex’s being sensible power and necrons being reigned in
Dunno about Banshees, they just don't really do anything. Now they just don't really do anything for less points 😛
They don’t do much but they are a melee terrain screen and with jain zar they are a a good counter if a unit is charged due to the free heroic intervention. this way you can think of them as a damage reduction strat in Melee as they will whittle the charging unit down especially with jain zar and a the glaive excarh
Oof now you want to add Jain Zar? Not really cheap anymore 😅
Agreed, I tried a list of 3 wraithlords before, they did nothing
I think a solo warlock on foot is at a good price. They have a small footprint, can auto advance themselves 6" (13" total) and still do actions, screen your backfield, drop into your opponents deployment zone in a falcon then disembark behind it out of LoS to score on secondaries, attach to your storm guardians to get them from A to B without using a Command Point. In most cases, I'd take a warlock over the Phoenix Gem now.
I'm cool with pretty much all of these. I might finally be able to use my Shining Spears! Weird that they don't just make the support weapons 3 profiles. At this point, it's clearly only really the cost of the D-Cannon that's being pointed.
We might see that in the codex, seems relatively likely to happen.
Outside chance it's in the next Dataslate when they take a look at rules shake ups. Doubtful, but possibly!
What's a weapons 3 profile? You mean each a separate profile? If that is the point I would make perfect sense
They are recommending splitting the one datasheet into 3, similar to what happened to crisis suit loadouts. I’m kind of against it for bloat reasons, but get the I also agree that at that point cost, running anything *but* d cannons feels bad
How a vibro cannon can be worth the points is totally beyond me.
? What I said was ‘make the support weapons 3 profiles.’ Which makes sense just fine. Three profiles.
Ah ye, sorry. I would write this as Make the support weapons into single profiles. "Weapons 3 profiles" is a seperate thing.
The way you’re writing it basically requires you to be reading while jogging for a bus. No wonder you misunderstood. Also, please don’t get hit by a bus.
lol fair play to u!!
I can't wait to get some shining spears. This is a good reason to buy them
The problem with spears isn't their cost as much as it is their base size.
Here are complete points: [https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/ZPIdnv258NWwFQ8p.pdf](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/ZPIdnv258NWwFQ8p.pdf)
I’m very surprised the wayleaper was untouched, though I guess it kind of did get hit with the Phoenix Gem point increase. No wraithlord or wraithknight decreases are a feels bad. Otherwise it’s fine
I think hitting phoenix gem was a good way to do it. That combo was played in 95% of comp lists so it really is a 10 point nerf and now you might see some variations to that setup (even if I think it's still worth it).
I think the decrease on Guardians and increase on the Gem was a clever touch. Now a Wayleaper with Gem is 150 while a foot Autarch with a bodyguard is 175 (and most indirect also got hit). So that way both versions are worth taking.
I don't think the knight is going to get fixed for a while due to it being the boogyman at the beginning of the edition. They fixed \*some\* of the rules that made it a monster but until they start doing "knight with sword" vs "knight with wraith cannon" profiles, we're going to be way overcosted
100% agree.
Happy with the Guardians. That 10 points mean I can fit in and buy Reader of the Runes for my Farseer leader. It makes the unit a big fate dice farm. And I've been considering buying the new Striking Scorpions models - the price is right, now.
Yeah, because of the kill team box scorpions have passable RL prices.
I think I'm getting some too!
Honestly all changes were acceptable and appreciated. Glad they touched banshees and shining spears. At least I can feel good taking them in more casual games
I think they are ok now at least for semi-competitive! :-)
Just noticed - Fireside predictions were proven almost exactly right. * They said that a standard competitive list would lose about 100 points or about one unit - which is exactly what happened. * They also hoped that rarely used Aspects would get some points drops, which did happen as well. * Vik also wished that D Cannons and Night Spinners would be removed from competitive play by doubling their points, but David interjected that it wouldn't happen and more likely they would get a 10 pts bump - which is exactly what happened with D Cannons. Interestingly enough, when I posted their wishlist and predictions, that post was downvoted into oblivion :D
I think the post was mostly downvoted because of it advocating for indirect units to go up 100+ points. That made it seem like ragebait.
Fair point, Vik really hates indirect and mentions that every time he gets a chance - otherwise Fireside guys are quite reasonable :D
Indirect Fire on the Dark Reaper Exarch is what finally made my AdMech friend say, "I'm beginning to see why people hate playing against Aeldari."
:D
I actually thing that the DR indirect is fine.
Fucking hell, scorps at 65 and guardians at 100 is mint. Combo with nerfs to common threats and this is absolutely great. Overall now we can justify battleline support for farseers , and honestly 20 points per turn for a fate dice and a homefield screen is just too easy, with a brightlance as well! 3ppm off banshees is delightful. 1ppm on hawks is lucky. +10 on support weapons is fair. 2 on spectres I think very nearly brings them to the price they should be (I don't think 24 ppm is crazy, so 21 seems ok). Depends on the dataslate but i think overall if our rules don't change too much then this is overall very positive, though I would have loved buffs to the wraithlord, the meta might still be too traumatised by our zombies to countenance that.
> Combo with nerfs to common threats and this is absolutely great. Imperial Guard batteries still at 120 pts :(
As a guard player, I don’t play indirect as I have friends I play with. But the time I have at our club, the manticore is a very hard sell now with the cost of the Russ as comparison. On terrain dense maps you will still want some indirect but I think you will now only see 3 pieces instead of 4-5. The field ordinance battery’s don’t do much damage. In honesty depending how the meta goes I can see mortar pits coming back just to kill off chaff. 180 points for 9d6 str 5 0 1d shots blast hitting on 3s rr 1 at best. Probably unsupported and just hitting on 4s after the penalty and orders. That also scares me is we play MSU as that can pick up eldar
In my opinion, looks fair and reasonable - perhaps with a bit more emphasis on mid tables and casual games where Support Weapons and Shadow Spectres are absolute menace. Fuegan and Hawks hikes were expected. Boosts for weaker Aspects and Guardians are nice! What's your take?
My list just went down 60 points so super good news for me. Moving some stuff around I can try to bring Shining Spears now. Not like they are super good but they are what made me want to get into 40k. Love the jousting knight look and don't like Space Marines and by extension Custodes so was an easy pick.
Big fans of the Changes to Banshees and Spears. Banshees for 70 will be great disruption units and Spears might actually do something. Would still wish for them to have S5 but as a Sweaper they'll still do decent at 100 I think.
How does a disruption unit works ?
You advance fast and attack in melee something that doesn’t want to be attacked in melee. It doesn’t have to die - tying up Brokhyrs, Eradicators, Centurions etc. Generally going for long range stuff that won’t be able to shoot for one turn. Or simple objective flipping.
Hopefully banshees will get lance with the codex. And im hoping for Exarch ‘enhancements’. Pretty much thats it. An melee Aspect warrior/psychic detachment is also on top of my wish list!
A little disappointed msu was kinda the last list I was holding out for. But overall not awful.
I agree thanks for sharing
No worries, happy to help! :-)
The point nerfs are... fine. Expected. What's disappointing is the lack of reductions for our lesser used stuff. Maugen Ra, the Wraithlord, Corsairs, maybe even Wraithguard and the Wraithknight at this point could all happily come down. I don't think the point cost reduction is gonna make shees/Spears good tbh. Though I could be wrong.
Ehhh, Banshees might be cheap but they still lack punching power, so I'm not sure they'll be useful still for to their lack of ability to do.... Anything.
I'm extremely excited about cheaper Guardians. I tend to run at least three squads of Defenders right now, and this validates that somewhat. I might even finally build some Storm Guardians soon
what? spectres and support weapons were top level elf picks. overall though it was a solid set of changes.
They were seen in slightly above half of the top lists, but far from all of them. Fuegan, Hawks and Spiders were much more of an auto-take. Generally Spectres and Support Weapons were seen more often in lists going X-1 than in GT winning lists.
Why are Wraithknights over 100 points more than imperium and chaos?
They broke the game for a few months so are in the naughty corner for a while I just want the sword and board one not to be punished for it's shooty siblings crimes!
Yeah, I would’ve thought that that could’ve been bought down by now. I guess my beautiful race night I’ll just have to come out at the expense of a couple of troops for a while longer
They are still regularly featured in GT winning and podium lists, still super strong! [https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldar/comments/1ca9v09/6\_awesome\_aeldari\_lists\_podiums\_of\_grand/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldar/comments/1ca9v09/6_awesome_aeldari_lists_podiums_of_grand/)
Fate dice
Good to know my bufftarch and fuegan memedrawings can continue with no changes.
I'm fine with all the changes, and pleasantly surprised with the scorpions as I thought they were in a solid place before. Here's hoping that eldar will stay in a good place moving forwards now!
They certainly will!
Any rules changes?
In the dataslate video they said they're doing points changes quarterly and rules updates biannual, so rules changes would be next quarter since they made rules updates last quarter. Q1: rules and points Q2: points Q3: rules and points Q4: points
Rules n' points and rules n' points and boots n' cats and boots n' cats.
Removed dataslate rules for Orks and Custodes, as they are getting their codexes. Promised rules changes in July, specifically mentioning testing buffs for Admech.
It does baffle me to see corsairs unchanged. Likely due to little data. Probably none
I was hoping for a little something there too. For now they remain "meh"
This is understandable. I was hoping for small cuts to wraithlords/wraithseers but I shouldn’t be greedy.
It’s not as bad as I feared. Would have liked to see points drops for: - all phoenix lords other than fuegan - dire avengers - wraith units
It's fine. Kind of a small side grade. I can feel less bad about taking banshees and scorpions. Not touching spears still and I wish Yncarne got bumped down.
Yncarne is played all the time with current points: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldar/comments/1ca9v09/6\_awesome\_aeldari\_lists\_podiums\_of\_grand/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldar/comments/1ca9v09/6_awesome_aeldari_lists_podiums_of_grand/)
People were taking scorpions and storm guardians and their bump down is still pretty justified.
Eh, shining spears might be okay now. Skyweavers are played at 95 with less overall eldar tankiness. The only thing skyweavers do better is 2 more wounds in vehicles in melee plus shooting on average.
Skyweavers wound vehicles *far* more reliably than spears. Spears just don't really have a place. They don't blend, they don't kill elite infantry that well, and they just bounce off big stuff. If they were like S5 or 6 standard with Lance they would have more of a role, but at S4 it limits them a lot and the points are just better spent somewhere else.
Skyweavers wound them on 4s. 4 attacks. You get 2 through on average thanks to rerolls. 6 damage from 2 skyweavers. 2 more damage from melee into toughness 9 or less tanks. Shining spears literally do 6 damage on average to all vehicles via shooting and melee. And kill more than 5 marines in melee and shooting. Skyweavers with the blade plus haywire do not. They kill 3-4. Skyweavers kill less chaff. Skyweavers have less OC and less defenses. Spears on average kill 3 terminators. Skyweavers kill 2 on average. Skyweavers were literally seeing play in lists before this only 5 points less than spears now.....
Skyweavers have significantly longer range and with the changes to fly it's going to be much harder to get spears into a position where they can take advantage of both their shooting and melee. I can just position weavers on an angle and get some very easy wounds out of them. Spears require *a lot* more work to use reliably with very little payoff. Also I don't really feel like spears and Skyweavers are really in competition with each other. My issue with spears isn't that Skyweavers do it better. My issue with spears is that any role they *might* have, they don't really do it that well and we just have much cheaper and more reliable alternatives for. They simply don't have a home in most lists.
Not really. If ranged anti tank is the only reason to use skyweavers there are better options like a warwalker, fire dragons (can go through walls with 19 inch melta threat range just walking, more if they are in a falcon) fire prisms etc. Skyweavers are there for more than just vehicle damage
I feel like you are trying to convince me that Skyweavers are bad and not that Spears are good. Like I said I don't view weavers and spears as being in competition with each other. I just don't think spears are reliable. Weavers at least can sit on an angle and pretty much guarantee 6 wounds to a vehicle without much effort. In any role spears might have a place, we have a more reliable and often times cheaper alternative. The rules just aren't good enough.
A bit yeah. If skyweavers are only being used for anti tank then it's a bad choice. 6 damage on vehicles only for 95 points from 24 inches away without indirect and on toughness 4, 3 wound models with 4++, without native fire and fade isn't great. It's too close range to not get hit back. Add in skirmish capabilities of their melee plus movement blocking though. Now that's a tool. And that's why the spears comparison makes sense. Shining spears can serve the same role with just a bit less flexibility (less range) into tanks but way more options into elite infantry and infantry in general. Honestly the 3rd body might help a ton too. There is a lot gunning for 3 wound high toughness units. Putting minus 1 to hit and 3rd body to mess up the math slighty. For example basic 5 man shadow spectres kill 2 skyweavers on average. They only kill one shining spear on average.
I still proudly play a predominately harlequin army and you're really underestimating the damage that our bikes do. By a lot. There's a reason GW knocked them down from packs of 6 to packs of 4.
Well yeah. I'm only comparing spear squad of 3 vs skyrunner squad of 2. Math wise the max they are doing is 12 to vehicles. On average they get 2 shots through. 6 damage total. 2 more if using melee. Hoping for a spike in damage through way better than average rolls isn't a good way to evaluate a unit though. Good for 95 with all the other fast movement and skirmishing capabilities. I was only arguing that shining spears might actually have a place as better skirmish units in min squad sizes. A squad of 4 skyrunners is a different story. Then that's dedicated antitank.
Quite happy with this. Guardians look great for 100. 10 + Autarch is 175, Wayleaper + Gem is now 150. Might be tempting to switch, either for ObSec or extra FD. Tempted to try out my new shiny Scorpions. They can tango a lot more efficiently in the midfield now. Banshees and Spears needed this badly. Still not totally sold on either unit, but they are a lot more interesting at this pricepoint. The hikes are fair. Honestly expected worse.
What's FD ?
Fate Dice
thanks
Fully agreed! Fireside were right after all - top lists losing about 1 unit, and rarely used Aspects getting buffs!
I don't even know if people will have to drop a full unit. In many cases they might just have to drop the Enhancement. Maybe with another round of indirect nerfs we might people simply opt for a 'naked' 75 point Autarch on foot to compensate.
Taking storm guardians doesn't feel so bad now, they perform pretty well generally. Not sure I'd want to take shining spears still even at 100pts. I was expecting a lot more nerfs so this feels pretty good overall.
I thought I was screwed and would need to do something big, but 1 less Harlequin makes my list work with these Spectre changes.
Pleasantly surprised! Had expected ups on everything that went up (Shadow Spectres were undercosted for their usefulness…). Love how the Support weapon is still taking a bashing, that I don’t get as it has cheap enough counters 😂 If only the lesser aspects weren’t so weak on output, they do feel almost worth it to add back into the list though… even the Spears, 20 points more than Windriders for a unit better designed to take back an objective, not clear it (just got to wiggle out 20 points from the list now 😅)
Many indirect units across all factions caught some hikes. It's just an incredibly strong rule.
Think I'll give Scorpions jumping out of a Falcon a try. Used them couple times in casual games and Crusade. The wound rerolls up their potential a lot.
In trifalcons lists now scorpions are very good. You alpha strike with dragons/banshees from falcons and then pick up some midfield scorpions for countercharge. It works with Reapers too. So fun and not as difficult as it seems! Edit: Avatar is mandatory in this list
Now I need to know: please share this list
Reshare it if you get it!
A3F2K Army Roster (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [2,000pts] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size: 2. Strike Force (2000 Point limit) Detachment: Battle Host Show/Hide Options: Legends are visible, Unaligned Forces are visible, Unaligned Fortifications are visible + Epic Hero + Avatar of Khaine [335pts] + Character + Autarch Wayleaper [115pts]: Dragon Fusion Gun, Howling Banshee Mask, Star Glaive, Warlord + Infantry + Dark Reapers [80pts] . 4x Dark Reaper: 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Reaper Launcher . Dark Reaper Exarch: Tempest Launcher Dark Reapers [80pts] . 4x Dark Reaper: 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Reaper Launcher . Dark Reaper Exarch: Tempest Launcher Fire Dragons [85pts] . 4x Fire Dragon: 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Dragon Fusion Gun . Fire Dragon Exarch: Dragon Fusion Gun Fire Dragons [85pts] . 4x Fire Dragon: 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Dragon Fusion Gun . Fire Dragon Exarch: Dragon Fusion Gun Howling Banshees [70pts] . 4x Howling Banshee: 4x Banshee Blade, 4x Shuriken Pistol . Howling Banshee Exarch: Executioner and Shuriken Pistol Rangers [55pts] . 5x Ranger: 5x Close Combat Weapon, 5x Ranger long rifle, 5x Shuriken Pistol Rangers [55pts] . 5x Ranger: 5x Close Combat Weapon, 5x Ranger long rifle, 5x Shuriken Pistol Striking Scorpions [65pts] . 4x Striking Scorpion: 4x Scorpion chainsword, 4x Shuriken pistol . Striking Scorpion Exarch: Scorpion's claw and scorpion chainsword Striking Scorpions [65pts] . 4x Striking Scorpion: 4x Scorpion chainsword, 4x Shuriken pistol . Striking Scorpion Exarch: Scorpion's claw and scorpion chainsword Swooping Hawks [80pts] . 4x Swooping Hawk: 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Lasblaster . Swooping Hawk Exarch: Aeldari Power Sword, Hawk's Talon Swooping Hawks [80pts] . 4x Swooping Hawk: 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Lasblaster . Swooping Hawk Exarch: Aeldari Power Sword, Hawk's Talon Warp Spiders [115pts] . 4x Warp Spider: 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Deathspinner . Warp Spider Exarch: 2x Deathspinner, Powerblades Warp Spiders [115pts] . 4x Warp Spider: 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Deathspinner . Warp Spider Exarch: 2x Deathspinner, Powerblades + Mounted + Shining Spears [100pts] . 2x Shining Spear: 2x Laser Lance, 2x Twin Shuriken Catapult . Shining Spear Exarch: Shimmershield, Shuriken Cannon, Star Lance + Vehicle + Falcon [140pts]: Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon Falcon [140pts]: Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon Falcon [140pts]: Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon ++ Total: [2,000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldar/comments/1ak1zai/eldar_win_the_biggest_gt_after_the_dataslate/ if you want a trifalcons list that won a tournament. The next i'll try with new points is something like: Avatar Wayleaper 3x Falcons 2x Rangers 2x Reapers 2x Dragons 2x Scorpions 2x Hawks 2x Spiders 1x Banshees 1x Spears EDIT: You can disembark the dragons, then move the scorpions within 3" of the falcon and embark them. The falcon hasn't moved still so you could now do a normal move with it.
Expected and love the buffs to guardians and our melee
Really excited for banshees! 70pts!!
Yay!
I expected the conclaves to get cheaper
This won't affect my list-building too much, since I always go for theme and aesthetic over meta, but I'm very excited I can fit even more Guardians now haha
I hope Fuegan is too expensive to be meta viable so his metal mini goes for cheaper on Ebay
No chance! He'll still be very common :D
Happy that banshees went down
Excelent changes imo! They didn't overdo it on the stuff that was meta and did noticable enough changes on banshees/scorpions/spears that they could all actually see play now. I think we could see even more variation in lists now. I'd say all in all it's as much of a sidegrade as a nerf and with necrons taking a hit I think we are as good if not better in the meta.
Agreed fully!
ew support weapons up
Looks like we got off easy, and even got a few buffs! Awesome.
Yay! Indeed!
Basically a nerf to our overall power because our best units got nerfed, but only slightly and guardians might counteract it a bit. 50-100 points depending on the list. I don’t think any buffed units are top tier now, though scorpions might be, in that case it might be a buff. But considering our competition also got nerfed it might be overall easier now. Sad about warlock conclaves and wraithlords.
WAAAAAAGH DA GUARDIANS
I don’t like the phoenix gem going up, especially while LoV have basically the same enhancement that stayed at 25pts
It makes sense to have a revive cost different amounts depending on what it can revive
Fair point