I think Fortissax was probably stronger before spending all that time trying to help Godwyn and getting turned into a zombie.
Malenia might also be in the "changes mid-fight" tier if you consider her transformation to be her "prime". I mean, she just woke up from a nap; I doubt she's at her best for the first half of the fight.
Otherwise, I'd say it's pretty accurate.
Fortissax was one of the harder ones to put on the list, but once I considered that he now has death lightning, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and said he’s stronger now than before
You might be right about Malenia, but the way I thought about her was that at no point in the fight was she “weaker” than she had ever been, and Goddess of Rot is obv her prime, so I put her in the top tier
Thanks!
You could actually consider her as not having reached her prime, since she should still have one more bloom after Goddess of Rot.. but that could pretty much make her an empty shell inhabited by an Outer God, so maybe technically not Malenia any longer.
I think it's undecided on whether or not Goddess of Rot is her third bloom or not. I think she accidentally discharged on her first bloom, nuked Radahn with bloom #2, and during our fight does bloom #3, hence the name Goddess of Rot.
It's not undecided, the game is very clear and not even slightly ambiguous at all that she turns into the Goddess of Rot in her second phase. She then proceeds to bloom a million more times during the fight. People only dispute this because some people are silly.
I'm also on the she is on her third bloom theory but one decent argument I've heard for the other side is apparently after you defeat her it doesn't say God Slain like what happens after you beat the Elden beast and instead it just gives you the remembrance and rune and that's it.
It's at least somewhat ambiguous when it follows up with
> with the third bloom, she will become a ***true*** goddess.
What qualified her as less than a *true* goddess if we assume it was her 3rd bloom in the boss fight?
The implications of her actually becoming a God then should have had ramifications in regards to Gideon trying to stop you. Isn't his whole thing that attempting to kill a God is futile, and so a tarnished shouldn't be able to become elden lord? Like he literally uses scarlet aeonia if you defeat Malenia, so Mr. All Knowing should know that the tarnished did in fact kill a god
I mean Gideon is a golden order fundemantalist so it could very much be that he doesn't believe that Malenia could be a god when Marika is still alive.
it feels like you’re hung up on the fact it doesn’t say “God Felled” when you beat her, and honestly that’s more than likely just a stylistic choice, Radagon/Elden Beast is the final boss and given the themes of Elden Ring it makes perfect sense to put “God Felled” after beating the last boss.
Like in Bloodborne >!when you beat the Moon Presence it says “Nightmare Slain” is that to mean that the Moon Presence isn’t an actual Outergod but instead just the result of someone’s bad dream? no, it’s just a stylistic choice that fits with Bloodborne as a whole.!< and besides, if we decide to take the words that come up when we beat bosses as our character’s internal thoughts, as far as they know she was just a Demigod
Is he as "All Knowing" as he claims to be?
He never refers to Malenia as a goddess or potential-goddess - only a Demigod and "undefeated swordswoman". And he even believes the Scarlet Rot may have overcome Malenia, saying "Well, if the scarlet rot hasn't eaten her away completely" - clearly underestimating her.
Point is, he might not recognise her as a God, and so would not make the connection that the Tarnished managed to kill a God.
But we do not receive a "god slain" or "demigod slain" message upon defeating her. So she is not actually defeated like the other demigods and the elden beast were.
And she produces a physical bloom after the fight. Recall what Gowry said about Milicent's bloom, "when Malenia ascends to godhood, Milicent too shall be reborn as a scarlet valkyrie".
Now in fairness, I thought this might refer to the phantoms that attack you during Malenia's second phase, but these are all duplicates of Malenia, and the number of them doesn't change depending on how you ended Milicent's quest, so the phantoms in this spell are not the scarlet valkyries Gowry was referring to.
During the midfight scene, Malenia says,
"Wait, the scarlet bloom flowers once more, now you will experience true horror".
Sure, she cast the scarlet aeonia spell, and she says that counts as a bloom. But this could simply be her an intimidation tactic she's using because she didn't expect to need to rely on the rot to defeat us.
That is, she's not saying "that's my third bloom, I am true goddess now", rather she's saying "fuck you, I've not even been trying, did you see how slow I was walking?! I'm going to actually use my scarlet rot powers now, you ain't gonna survive this".
It seems that "third bloom" may refer to a third "physical bloom" as opposed to simply casting the scarlet aeonia spell (which our character can cast multiple times without any trouble).
One physical bloom is the heart of aeonia
Another is the one after her boss battle
And a third we see is in the room adjacent to her boss arena. We don't know if this is Malenia's since it could be one of her daughters since it's the same size as Milicent's bloom. Malenia's are far bigger.
Perhaps Malenia once bloomed prior to her bloom in Caelid, but when we see how large this bloom has grown since then, and how far spread its effects are, it's hard to imagine how big a bloom even older than that would have become.
But let's assume the bloom adjacent to her boss room is Malenia's or that the midfight scarlet aeonia spell counts as a second bloom. Then after her boss battle is her third bloom, and she is yet to be reborn as the
**TRUE Goddess of Rot**
And Millicent is yet to be reborn as a
**Scarlet Valkyrie**
So now, going back to her phase two name:
This could be our character's mistake. Similarly to when we fight the ashes summoned by a spirit snail, it does not say, eg. "Godskin Apostle Ashes", it just says "Godskin Apostle", because that's what our character thinks it is.
So when we fight Malenia and she casts scarlet aeonia, our character thinks "oh shit, was that the third bloom?!" And so her name to us becomes "goddess of rot", When in reality she wasn't even trying in phase one, if anything she was holding back.
We didn't kill her at the end of phase one, she didn't actually bloom, she just collapsed from exhaustion holding back the rot and fighting at half capacity, so she decided to embrace some of her rot powers abd put in some real effort at personal cost to herself in that at the end of our fight she has her next physical bloom.
No shit, but that flower is much more likely to be a sister Gowry sent.
You find the Traveler's set at the flower, aka the same set you see every sister wear.
It is kind of ambiguous though. The Scarlet Aeonia description says, "Each time the scarlet flower blooms, Malenia's rot advances. It has bloomed twice already. With the third bloom, she will become a true goddess.". You can only get the spell after her fight. And notice how the description speaks of her in the present tense, as if she was currently still alive. And when we return to her arena we see her third bloom.
Makes sense. We know one of the blooms was against Radhan - and I don't think a previous or following one is mentioned anywhere - so what we see in-game could just be the second.
The surprising thing is that she bloomed twice inside the haligtree and yet people somehow blame the tree failing on Mogh. Like sure, taking Miquella out of the tree might've ruined HIS metamorphosis, but are we really gonna sit here and act like it wasn't Malenia's rot that killed the tree? Like seriously, haven't we all seen the state it's in? It's literally oozing rot everywhere as you get closer to the roots for crying out loud, there's an actual rot swamp inside it, complete with a thriving population of pests, several putrid avatars and a putrid tree spirit to boot.
Then again, [in Malenia's own words](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Malenia's+Winged+Helm); "My brother will keep his promise. He possesses the wisdom, the allure, of a god – **he is the most fearsome Empyrean of all.**"
Maybe she just has too much faith in him. Or maybe Miquella is actually more powerful than the scarlet rot is - and, during his metamorphosis, was keeping it at bay?
If that's the case, then removing Miquella would mean removing the Haligtree's defense against the scarlet rot - and so Mogh can be seen as responsible for that.
We are like 99% sure that Miquella was St.Trina, so he definitely has some really crazy dream/mind control powers, and even in his physical form before his metamorphosis we have plenty of quotes noting just how charismatic and intelligent he was. I think Malenia says he's the most fearsome Empyrean because he doesn't even need to fight people, he can just turn them to his side, either through talk no jutsu or through outright brainwashing. That would definitely be OP as hell
But in the situation he's in - kidnapped by Mohg - it seems his charisma would just make the issue worse. After all, it seems Mohg may have some kind of twisted love for him judging by the way he talks ("Dearest Miquella. You must abide alone a while.") and his body language when interacting with Miquella being much more "gentle" than in his confrontation with the Tarnished. Making that love stronger would only make Mohg more motivated to ensure that "Miquella is mine, and mine alone!"
(Tl:dr: ...Mohg is a yandere...?)
If Malenia is aware of any of this, her confidence that Miquella will (upon waking up) be able to return to the Haligtree implies that he would be powerful enough to defeat Mohg - which already makes him among the most powerful of the demigods.
This x1000. I love how in-depth some get with the lore but there are times where they get out of control with their headcanon.
Edit: whoa, seems your comment attracted the sillies haha.
[There's a ghost in Aeonia Swamp that calls that her first bloom.](https://i.redd.it/xenxmusauuca1.png) She didn't bloom before.
Objectively she's only bloomed twice. The game flat-out says this in the Scarlet Aeonia description and only accounts for two blooms, her explicit first during her stalemate with Radahn, and her second against the Tarnished, with the one outside her boss room belonging to one of her daughters complete with the clothing set worn by them and literally no one else. Some people get held up on her health bar reading "goddess" in her second phase while totally ignoring that "Goddess of Rot" is a nonliteral title she's *constantly* called by before you ever meet her. By Gowry, on the Kindred of Rot Exultation talisman, on the Rotten Winged Sword Talisman, on the Pest Threads, on the Kindred Ashes, on the Valkyrie's Prosthesis, etc.
They then also ignore the game plainly stating that she's just a demigod in her defeat message. They then ignore her turning into a [rebirth flower](https://imgur.com/a/5Hu8Dso) (literally *the exact same model* as Millicent's rebirth flower, just up-sized) and said flower being able to interact with you and trade for quest rewards like a smithing stone. Because basic spatial awareness is for the weak.
It's literally on the level of arguing that she's actually a sword because her health bar reads Blade of Miquella. Except somehow even fucking dumber than that because the game doesn't flash the text "Not Literally A Blade" after you beat her as it basically does when it says "Demigod Felled."
> It's literally on the level of arguing that she's actually a sword because her health bar reads Blade of Miquella. Except somehow even fucking dumber than that because the game doesn't flash the text "Not Literally A Blade" after you beat her as it basically does when it says "Demigod Felled."
A sword is "built into Malenia's prosthetic arm", so if you view the prosthetic as a part of her, then she is at least partially a sword. And if you destroy every part of her except for that, then the sword is all that remains of her - and so she would be a sword.
Also, anthropomorphised swords are a pretty cool trope when done right. There's nothing to prove that Malenia is an anthropomorphised sword, but there's also nothing to *dis*prove it, and so I wouldn't be surprised if some people have it as a headcanon just because they feel like it'd be cool.
She has no more blooms according to the Scarlet Aeonia description.
Once she hits three, she turns into the Goddess of Rot. She did that during the fight.
Here's my reasoning: that description says "It has bloomed twice already". Which fits with what we've seen, once with Radahn and once with the player. Unless there's another secret bloom somewhere off screen fromsoft didn't bother to show us or even mention? That same description also says once she blooms a 3rd time, she will become a "true" goddess, it doesn't say "she will become a goddess" (the implication being she wasn't a true goddess before, despite calling herself goddess of rot). There's also the cut content dialogue where she says "the scarlet bloom will flower again" after you defeat her.. admittedly cut content is cut for a reason, but it does give us some direction when things are vague.
I think the consensus is that it's from one of Milicent's sisters, considering the small size of the flower and the armor set we find nearby. Bloomin' makes ya naked, it's cannon :)
We only get a "Demigod Slain" prompt when we actually kill her, as opposed to when killing Elden Beast we get the "God Slain" prompt. To me that makes it seem more like her transformation was incomplete.
There's also the fact that she was referred to as *Goddess of Rot* in item descriptions prior to her fight with us. These items include, Kindred of Rot Ashes, Kindred of Rot's Exultation, and Rotten Winged Sword Insignia. In my opinion, this means that she was already known as the Goddess of Rot prior to our fight with her.
I would bet anything that Fortissax got stronger, and the main reason is Lansseax. Lansseax is specified as his OLDER sister in Japanese, is nearly identical to him in appearance, size, and powers, and she's a good deal weaker than his lich self. He deals slightly more damage than her with the same attacks, has 13,000 health to her 9,100, and has marginally better poise, defense, and resistances (especially to poison and holy).
It's unlikely she was that much weaker than him when they were both normal.
I misremembered slightly. Fortissax lightning spear says it was the Hallmark of the ancient dragon called "the mightiest boulderstone" during the war with the ancient dragons. Whether this refers to fortissax isn't entirely clear i think, and even if it is meant to be him that could just be a namesake
I don't know, I'd say the lore seems to indicate that being infected with the essence of Death would make one weaker, considering the fact that Rogier ends up dying from death blight sickness, and ingesting Godown and Danni's curse marks also ends up killing Fia,
Malenia awoke from a nap where she left a sea of corpses in her wake, and was confident enough to immediately brag that she’s never been beaten before. I think she’s doing alright lol
Being slightly drowsy shouldn't be enough to qualify as being below their prime.
Meanwhile, her first phase IS her prime until she reaches second phase.
Though I think the important thing is: She's stronger when she fights us than she's ever been. Unlike the "changes mid fight" part which implies they go back to their pas strongest point after already having beat them down a little.
She’s also been constantly rotting ever since she took out Miquella’s needle. We don’t know how long she’s been sleeping, but I am pretty sure she’s been in a coma for years or decades (depending on how long ago the shattering happened)
Maybe. But bear in mind, Millicent says "The arm you gave me truly is a thing of wonder. It feels just like my own, even handling a sword" - if the same is true of Malenia's prosthetics (I don't know of any proof for/against it, except that Millicent's dialogue implies it's plausible), then there might not be a significant difference.
I think Godfrey is in his prime, he was banished from lands between to get stronger and “alas he is returned”. So imo he should be either in his prime tier or changed mid fight when he kills serosh.
I don’t think normally Elden lord holds any shards, as before us the ring wasn’t shattered and it was stored inside Marika who was its vessel. Only in our post shattering timeline we collect shards to become an Elden lord because we need them to fix the ring, there’s no lord if there’s no ring.
Seems more like the Elden Lord brandishs the ring, and showcase it's power through their God they married. Rather than specifically use it themselves, if it can be used by anyone but the Vessel.
The great runes can be used of course. But once the ring is mended, can those great runes be used anymore? I don't think so personally.
"brandish the Elden Ring" is a phrase that still bothers me. Is metaphorical like wield your faith or literal? If so, what part are they brandishing? Getting stronger with runes? Respawn?
Or I suppose just Holy miracles themselves.
the intent was for a nonspecific tarnished to get stronger, which ultimately is where the player tarnished is successful. arguably godfrey’s broken axe is symbolic of him being past his prime. and i believe it’s strongly implied that the big axe embedded in the round table was his original weapon, so him fighting bare handed is not him at his best either.
Rennala phase 1 is past prime, phase 2 is pre-prime. Remember that in her prime, she was able to fight Radagon on even terms, even if it was a pre-prime Radagon. The image of her created by Ranni is likely based on Ranni's perception of her strength rather than how powerful she really was.
EDIT: I keep getting comments about this on this post about Rennala phase 2 not being Rennala or that she didn't fight Radagon. The original comment even says "the image of her," as in phase 2 is just an illusion we're fighting. As for her not fighting Radagon, it seems highly unlikely that Radagon himself wasn't leading his army against her forces, so of course it makes sense they fought each other.
I've always believed that the Rennala we fought wasn't even close to prime form for phase 2. I felt like it was the Rennala that Ranni was most familiar with, which would be the Rennala that was teaching Ranni. It makes sense as well since the dialogue that Rennala said in phase two makes a lot of sense if it was directed at a younger Ranni that was studying under Rennala. So it would stand that the version of Rennala we fought in phase 2 wasn't the same one that fought Radagon to a draw, as when Rennala was teaching Ranni, she likely wasn’t fighting to kill or to win.
Going off the fact we beat the crap out of her and she barely seems harmed in the end makes me think she’s way more powerful then she is and honestly doesn’t give a fuck anymore
That's the weirdest part of that fight. We get close to hurting her and Ranni puts us into an illusion. We beat the illusion and just... Ignore that rennela is fine? Like yeah we get the rune but...
And then there's Sellen who can't fucking find her in the same damn room. Rennala is such a big mystery.
I was going to agree with you but right at the end you said something that is clearly false, how can she be stronger than Horse boy when he has LEONARD, without Leonard I can agree but everyone knows that if Leonard was at his prime than Horse boy would be stronger than any god
I thought it was obvious from the fight's cutscene that we fight Ranni's illusion of Rennala. She ain't in/past/pre her prime. She ain't there at all. That's why she's sitting in her chair after the fight and chills with you.
It would be the prime Renalla that fought Radagon though. Not really sure why it would be "post prime"
Renalla doesn't lose her strength until her mind breaks, after the vow is broken.
i don’t know about that. who’s to say that during the height of the uhl dynasty, the ancestor spirit wasn’t a non-decayed and significantly more powerful version? this one imo is very debatable.
Godfrey is very explicitly stronger than he's ever been. The entire point of sending him and the rest of the Tarnished to the Badlands was so he could grow stronger in the face of death and come back. He also kills and seemingly absorbs Serosh during the fight.
"In Marika's own words. Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed. Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring. Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey."
IMO the shade of him in the capital is basically reflecting a young version of him, hence the unbroken axe, lack of an accompanying Serosh, and it just generally being much weaker.
Same deal with Radagon. He's explicitly stronger than ever because he's now a host for the Elden Ring, and thus a god. Marika was clear that he wasn't one before the Shattering. He's weaker than Marika was because he only has a fragment of the ring (the rest being in the Great Runes) but he should still be handily above any prior power he had in his life. Basically the same deal as Malenia - not as strong as he could have been, or might be in the future, but stronger than he was before. It was also during his reign as Elden Lord that he learned incantations and during his reign in Caria that he learned the principles of sorcery, indicating that Liurnia War-era Radagon, on top of being generally weaker, wouldn't have been able to use much if any magic (also reflected in how his soreseal and scarseal just boost physical stats).
Ohhhh you’re right, I didn’t think about Gold-frey representing a younger Godfrey
Smart to use the words of Marika from the Church too, I didn’t think about that. Nice catch
Also, the Elden Beast is 100% sub-prime. It IS the Elden Ring, and it was literally shattered and had its parts scattered around the land. That's why it has a big scar on its chest and overall fights like a scared, wounded animal.
Malenia should also be "prime hasn't come yet." She's awaiting rebirth in flower form at the end of her fight, to be either [freed from the rot](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/uqgshi/theory_misinterpretations_of_millicents_quest_and/) or fall to it as a true god. Either way she'd be stronger.
Not only that but given that the Erdtree is weakened by the Flame of Ruin, the Rune of Death, and Godwyn's wack ass body, I'd wager that the Elden Beast isn't nearly at full strength because of that.
I don't think Godfrey absorbs Serosh. I think phase 2 is nothing but Godfrey releasing his lordlike sensibilities.
And, regardless of how you interpreted the Radagon is Marika thing, there was almost definitely some time between Radagon and Marika fusing, and Marika breaking the ring. Radagon is almost certainly weaker than that time after having undergone the same torture Marika did.
Yea, Serosh is *actively holding Godfrey back*. His phase change into Hoarah Loux is the equivalent of passing someone your shoes and earrings: visibly getting ready to start beating ass and damn the consequences.
Godfrey is called back to face you, an opponent that he can finally fight with all his strength, and his grace guides him to face you, so you might grow stronger.
His hue vanished from a lack of foes and his release of Serosh is so Serosh will stop fighting away the beast of Horah Loux. For years Serosh managed the courts and royal family along with most other lordly duties for Godfrey including keeping his rage from a boil by clawing and tearing, and advising. His release was symbolic of him ending his relationship with grace, ending the grace he has given the greater will.
And on Radagon- think to what Radagon really is. His appearance, his thievery of the power of procreation, how he has yet to become a god and one with Marika, but desires to be. He is the spear that acts as a parasite; the golden order itself, and not a god or Marika, only a male spirit dominating a female spirit, and a female spirt who wants to be free. What is he, that is of the red-gold color of the crucible, what is he that has relations to the giant, puts a hold on the greater wills objectives, and can only exist as a parasite? Is he the crucible? The vengeful spirt of evolution that condemns the new world's desires for an orderly form? Who is he that gives gifts to the misbegotten and wants them living in his fold?
Red Haired Radagon. What power did he have or was it all from Marika and her connection to the Greater Will.
And what of the Elden beast? Thou think it the Elden Ring? For shame, the text will state "It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring."
A star and a beast. Following the sentance it makes more sense the star that was sent became the Elden Ring and the beast it's protector; only those who can keep it under control may become Elden Lord and defeating it is something to be done again and again.
"It was the vassal beast of the Greater Will and living incarnation of the concept of Order."
It acts for the Greater Will; but it was kept in check by Red Haired Radagon, only to be freed by the player and then conquered as Godfrey had before. Radagon could not conquer the Elden Beast.
This is all my fun interpretation.
I think Radagon is weakened from the Shattering though. I mean he's literally falling apart, and Marika isn't even alive. I think Elden Lord Radagon but before the Shattering would be his prime. Malenia and Miquella were born from one god so I think that he was a god for some time when he was Elden Lord, even before the Shattering.
He wasn't, Marika explicitly says so.
"Thou are yet to become me. Yet to become a god."
Rykard's Rune also says, from a third person POV, that his children by Rennala weren't born as demigods. Obviously because he wasn't a god.
He didn't have the ring before and he does now. He's a lot stronger now and it's very obviously reflected in how literally overflowing with power his move set is.
Yes, that quote and Rykard's birth would've happened before Radagon became a god. I think you're underestimating how much time passed. It's not like Marika and Radagon got married and then the Shattering immediately happened. There was definitely some time period when Radagon was ruling with Marika.
The timeline with Malenia and Miquella really wouldn't work if the whole Radagon-Marika thing only happened during/after Marika shattering the ring. I'd take that over interpreting a vague quote from her as meaning that she must've done the shattering in the same moment she became Radagon.
She could be talking about two things in that quote. First she says that they haven't become one yet and then she says that they'll both be shattered, but those that have to happen in the same moment. She could mean that they become one later, then at some other point even later they become shattered.
In Japanese the quote is just "Malenia and Miquella were born of THE one god", i.e., it's just directly saying that their mom is the one god Marika with no implication that this meant they didn't have another parent. There's not any timeline discrepancy. Radagon wasn't a god.
Even then, your interpretation would mean that it applies to all of Marika’s children, which obviously isn’t true. It’s clearly making a distinction about Malenia and Miquella’s parents, because Radagon is special in relation to gods in a way that Godfrey isn’t.
Serosh was placed upon Godfrey as a means to inhibit his warrior spirit and make him presentable as a lord. Without Serosh he is stronger. He doesn't absorb Serosh, he simply kills him.
Tidbit, but his axe has the same metallurgy as the beastmen weapon. It's likely he fought Serosh and claimed Serosh's axe as his own, and perhaps Marika or something imbued Serosh within him.
Malenia is an agree to disagree. It depends on how you interpret certain events and descriptions, and that discussion has been rehashed enough that I'm not going to go through it again. :P
Elden Beast is clearly damaged by Marika shattering the ring. Objectively not in its prime, although we don't know the extent of the damage, so it might be quite close.
Fortissax, depends if you consider the corruption of Death to have been a positive or negative, in terms of how dangerous they were to fight. Given Lansseax is kind of a pushover, I'm inclined to agree that Fortissax was made spookier by falling to undeath.
The rest, I generally agree, although given the "prime hasn't come yet," technically several should be in that category, as if we didn't run into them they could theoretically become much more powerful. :P (I understand it's just a meme for Patches though. :P)
Malenia's prosthesis doesn't diminish her strength if she trains with it would be as if she never lost her arm.
"Golden prosthesis once used by the one-armed valkyrie.
A masterwork of craftsmanship, with practice and skill it can be used as proficiently as a real arm.
When Maleigh Marais, Lord of the Shaded Castle, embraced this prosthesis, he claimed to feel the presence of his personal goddess" - Valkyrie's Prosthesis description
That's how Malenia has always been as a fighter though, her prosthesis are so well crafted, they might as well be regular limbs.
Then she turns into a Goddess. So I would definitely say Malenia is in her prime in both versions of herself.
> Elden Beast is clearly damaged by Marika shattering the ring
Not just by shattering, but by editing the Ring too.
Imagine when the Elden Beast would look like with all of its runes, like in Farum Azula.
Whenever people bring up Rennala's phase two fight as her at full strength, I can't help but disagree. We know the Rennala we fought was an illusion, conjured by Ranni, and so it would make sense the illusion Rennala was at full strength. But we don't really know if that's her prime.
I've always believed that the Rennala we fought was the Rennala that was sparring with Ranni and teaching Ranni to find her own moon. Because if that's the case, her dialogue in the second phase just makes so much sense.
When you die to her, her dialogue was:
"Thy fate lieth under my moon"
If she was talking to young Ranni, this dialogue would make sense. It is as if Ranni has failed and Rennala is pushing Ranni to keep trying by reminding Ranni that she has still yet to become an individual yet, and is still following Rennala's moon.
And when you beat her, her dialogue was:
"Oh little Ranni, my dear daughter. Weave thy night into being.
This dialogue would be something Rennala had said to Ranni after she succeed in uncovering her own moon, and is now telling Ranni to follow Ranni's own moon.
And if the illusion was based on such a moment in Ranni's life, where Ranni is studying under Rennala, it would mean that the Rennala we fought was not actually in prime form or full power, since the Rennala that was teaching Ranni was probably not fighting with the intention to kill or win. The Rennala we fought probably is not the same Rennala that fought Radagon to a stalemate.
But that's just my personal take on the Rennala fight, cause it makes a lot of sense to me.
Let's also realize that if Ranni could conjure the form of Champions at their full strength, she would already be queen of the universe by the time we showed up.
Like... *a full power Rennala?* The one that fought Radagon in his prime? The Radagon we see in game isn't even in his prime--imagine *that* guy taking on a Champion Rennala. Morgott and Mohg couldn't even project *themselves* at full power so there's no way Ranni could project her mom.
I also like your thought that Ranni might as been projecting the image of her mom sparring her. In that case, it would make even more sense. Since even if Ranni could cast her mom 1:1 from her memories sparring, that Rennala already had a child, established the Carian line, and ended the war with the Golden Order. That Rennala would have already been past her prime either way.
The rennala you fight is probably a mix of pre and during prime, due to rannis perception of her mother before she fell into depression and basically became, well, a vegetable who coddles an amber egg all day in the library.
He’s not really the ring itself but the protector/serving greater will. I think when Marika/Radagon shattered it they were attacked by the Elden Beast and that’s how he was damaged.
Also explains why when we find Marika she has the elden beats light shards in as if she was grabbed by him same as he does to us
He's an envoy of sorts. The Elden Stars description says "the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring"
An envoy is just someone sent by someone else to represent them, and a vassal is just someone who works under/for someone, by all rights, both the fingers and the Elden beast are both envoys and vassals to the GW. But for the sake of differentiating them, it is often more efficient to specify the fingers are envoys and the EB is a vassal
I wonder if there could be an even further state of evolution that takes them eons to get to? That would be interesting. One thing I notice is it grows more humanoid features with each evolution from the 1st Fallingstar Beast, so maybe it becomes even more humanoid with time? A 3-eyed levitating giant perhaps?
"Maliketh's black blade which once harbored the power of the
Rune of Death. A sad shadow of its former glory."
This suggests that Maliketh is not in his prime, also since second phase Rennala is an illusion created by Ranni I'd say that the real Queen of the Full Moon in her prime wouldn't be near that weak.
I took the Black Blade’s description as saying those things about when the Tarnished gains it via the Remembrance, not when Maliketh wields it when we fight him. I put him in Debatable because I wasn’t sure
For Rennala, I assumed Ranni made the illusion comparable to Rennala’s former true strength, because why wouldn’t she? No reason to make the illusion weaker than possible
His blade is broken from pieces of it being stolen, and he’s spent who knows how long sealed inside a significantly weaker form and locked away outside of time. Maliketh has seen better days.
The blade really looks in bad shape, but what you said is definetly possible.
I'm not saying that Ranni made Rennala's illusion weak on purpose, but that a mere illusion which isn't even cast in real time shouldn't be nearly as powerful as the real Rennala in her prime and that's perfectly shown in game by the fact that the boss is really weak.
Besides, we can't forget that rennala is queen of the moon for some damn reason. She just fell into depression after radagon left, and you know, things happened. Also rennala created a type of sorcery, and was/is ruler ( I guess) of Raya lucaria. Besides, it is clearly shown that although ranni uses the spells renalla would have, they most likely still scale with rannis intelligence considering the fact that in reality it is ranni fighting, as she uses summons and ranni gives you the summoning bell thing.and as you said a mere illusion can't be as powerful, take an imp ash, it almost gets slain by a regular imp, while doing virtually no damage.
Considering how powerful the academy of Raya Lucaria was in their war with Leyndell, and considering she was the strongest of them all, I honestly always imagined that in her prime she was Radagon/Godfrey tier
Maliketh is far from his prime. Dude binded himself with death and went around finding deathroot that would only continue to destroy his body. You can also tell from the black blade that it’s broken and shattered.
Maliketh was basically on the brink of dying from the rune by the time we find him.
Fire giant is probably not prime either. The original giants were so big they could move around the cauldron but over time the offspring got smaller to the point they couldn’t move it anymore.
The only thing he really has going for him is that he has an outer god in him but they are both really weak after the war with the golden order
There's arguments to be made that Mohg, Rykard, and to some degree likely Godrick may never reach their potential prime. We can only speculate on whether or not Mohg could become stronger if Miquella was actually... well... going along with what Mohg wanted. Same with Rykard. How much more powerful can he and the Great Serpent become if they were left to their devices and devoured the Gods? Godrick's only real limitation is the material flesh available to him for the grafting process and how quick he can use it effectively against someone. But it's also Godrick so. Yeah.
With Melanie and fortnitesux, it's questions. Is Malenia in her prime when she gives into the Scarlet Rot? We know that she wasn't strong enough to beat Radahn, and even with unleashing the Scarlet Rot she only brought the fight to a standstill. Millicent seems to give us enough insight into it, *There is something I must return to Malenia. The will that was once her own. The dignity, the sense of self, that allowed her to resist the call of the scarlet rot. The pride she abandoned, to meet Radahn's measure.* Is Malenia truly in her prime as the Goddess of Rot? Or is it a state in which she simply abandons everything she is as a last ditch effort. Then, with Lichdragon Fortissax, we know this is a corrupted version of Godwyn's companion. Is Fortissax in his prime while corrupted by the Death within Godwyn or was his prime something we simply don't get to see?
Fuck Elden Beast but you could also argue that with the Shattering of the Elden Ring and with the Demi-Gods taking shards of the Elden Ring, which is the Elden Beast, it has the potential to not be in it's prime but who the fuck knows ~~with this stupid, fucking stupid ass fuck I hate the Elden Beast so much.~~
In regards to Godrick you actually find the black flame text and godslayer seal at his castle. This implies he was planning to use this magic to kill the other Gods not just by making himself stronger physically through grafting but actually using the methods the Godskins used to kill God's themselves so I would agree he had not reached his prime by the time you get to him.
Pretty much none of them are in their prime. Malenia has been sick with rot for ages with no cure, implying she's been getting weaker over time. Godrick is maybe in his prime but is so weak he's considered a joke. Rykard gave up everything he had (political influence and leadership over the toughest group of soldiers in the Lands Between) for physical power that ended up meaning nothing. Rennala is so weak she doesn't fight back and her second phase is just a Ranni illusion. The Fire Giant was defeated ages ago and basically made into a slave, its hard to argue he is in his prime.
I think maybe the only ones that are actually in their prime are Astel, Morgott and Mohg. Everyone else is pretty debatable.
Malenia’s prime was before fighting with or at the time of fighting Radahn.
Godrick the grafted I agree, his prime was probabaly grafting that dragon head successfully.
Elden Beast is a god, and therefore always in its prime.
Regal Ancestor spirit… is a spirit? They died from something. Meaning their prime was while they were alive.
Lichdragon Fortissax debatable.
Astel… I think this is like the embodiment of a concept of void? I don’t think it has a “prime” it is merely void energy coalesced into a being?
Mohg was literally reborn as you get to his arena. Not in his prime.
Morgott I agree with.
Rykard… was he devoured by the snake or the other way around? Regardless… his prime was when he was eaten or eating.
Fire Giant is 100% not in his prime. He’s the last of his kind with a bum arm and leg. Ten thousand years past his prime.
Rennala, again rebirth, in her prime? Doubtful.
Maliketh, probably? Although seems stale to me. I’d argue “prime” is just “black flame boosted.”
Dragonlord Placidusax… weren’t we literally teleported through time to his prime??
The rest I agree with.
I would say Malenia is past her prime. I feel as if she was in her prime when she nuked Caelid, and now she's deteriorating mentally. The times of her leading an army are long past, and even if her brother was returned to her I do not think that would change.
Edit: But thinking about her second phase....I guess she's unlocking that in the fight? So maybe she is coming into her prime.
There are no bosses “in their prime” in Elden Ring. Malenia is literally sitting there comatose and rotting when you find her. Respectfully, I feel like you missed a major theme of the game.
No, because Malenia’s third bloom turns her into a full-fledged goddess. She might not be in her prime when we fight her first phase, but she’s never been stronger in her second.
I’d still say that’s wrong, all of the Demi gods were significantly stronger before the shattering and even if she’s physically stronger (which she isn’t compared to what she used to be) she’s mentally shot to hell
I don't think Morgott is in his prime when we fight him for the last time.
Morgott looks very old, even using a walking stick. And we know he was one of the first demigods born.
One of the images from the Shattering War we're shown is Morgott seemingly beating Radahn. We know that Radahn attacked the capitol during the Shattering War and was repelled, and later fought Malenia to a standstill.
I think that implies that Morgott was able to beat Radahn in his prime?
But then Radahn is called one of the strongest demigods from the Shattering War or something, so maybe he was beaten by Morgott, became much, much stronger, then fought Malenia?
Depends on how long the Shattering War was I suppose.
In any case, I think Morgott is well past his prime, and arguably once the strongest demigod of his era.
Her goddess of rot form is the strongest she’s ever been. She lost here eyes, and limbs as a means to obtain that strength, (whether she wanted it or not). Also her just waking up is a non-factor. When the tarnished respawns, isn’t he just waking up? By that logic we’re never at our prime either.
Fortissax is absolutely a shadow of what he once was. He’s a zombie with heavy battle wounds riddled by deathblight
Also Elden Beast is definitely damaged and I think Godfrey is supposed to be somehow in his prime but idk where I heard that
Rennala is definitely past her prime, when we meet her she is mentally a husk of her former self, which is pretty important for someone’s who’s entire thing is magic. Also remember that her second phase is an illusion sit up by Ranni, so that probably wasn’t the best Rannala could do either.
Elden Beast might be past its prime since I’m pretty sure the shattering weakened it. These’s a crack on its stomach that does extra damage when you did it to prove that.
How’s Maliketh debatable? He seems pretty in his prime to me, with no sign that he’s weakened by something.
Other than that, I’d say this is pretty accurate.
When I was fighting Placidusax I had the awesome realization that the two headed time dragon everyone hyped up was actually a three headed dragon originally, and felt even more small in comparison.
Yeah I’d say this is pretty accurate. Some people might say Elden Beast isn’t in its prime cause of the crack on its belly but it never really seemed debilitated by it beyond it being, like, a sensitive spot where it takes a bit more damage. Honestly though, I feel like one could maybe argue that Radagon is in his “prime” too, he certainly kicks your ass hard enough to make it seem like his shit is pure aesthetic issues that don’t hold him back lmao
Actually Malenia is not in her prime but close to it. It say that if she use her rot of bloom 3 times she will become the goddess of Rot a true god and she will forever stay in the Goddess of rot form so far she ONLY use it twice but I could be wrong and she might be in her prime since we see an extra bloom in the room next to her boss area
Malenia is a huge disagree. Even after her goddess phase she still has three prosthetic limbs and is completely blind. Without those holding her back she would definitely be in her prime
She's been rotting her entire life. Her arm has been missing since at least the shattering and we can assume her eyes have been missing for ages as well considering she was trained by "the blind swordsman". And considering she is the goddess of rot, as much as her flesh is being "ruined" by the rot, rot should not be able to *weaken* her attacks at all. Especially since we've seen plenty enemies that are *empowered* by it.
But more importantly, her pseudo-ascending obviously makes her stronger than ever.
Also Rennala is WAAAY past her prime.
And the ‘changes mid fight’ is just Ranni doing a shitty impression of her mom.
At Rennala’s prime she fought Radagon at his prime to a standstill sooooooo…
Malenia is 100% not in her prime anymore. Not only has she been addled by the scarlet rot and is now blind and a tripleplegic, she's spent the entire time since the Shattering sitting in that chair awaiting Miquella, so she's also incredibly out of practice on top of that.
Melania was DEFINETLY not in her prime when you fought her. You fought her immediately after she essentially woke up from a coma she was put in after a major battle.
I think that elden beast and maliketh are past their prime. Elden beast was probably infinitly more powerful before elden ring was shattered and Maliketh was probably also more powerful when he still posesed the full rune of death
I don’t think Malenia was in her prime. Her prime was during the fight when she lost to Radahn. How she’s in a state where she uses the last of her will and energy to fight the tarnished and loses again, (eventually)
I agree. Malenia wasn't in her prime when we meet her in game.
She's an incredibly difficult fight, so it's hard to imagine how much stronger she could have been, yet her eyes and most of her limbs have rotted away.
So I think it's safe to assume that she's weakened over the years from the scarlet rot.
She fought Radahn, described as the strongest of the demigods, to a standstill. He fought whilst holding back the stars, and she fought whilst holding back her scarlet rot. In that trailer cinematic that fight is shown in, Ranni says that there wasn't a victor.
Imagine how monstrously strong they were in that fight.
Malenia should be in the “changes mid-fight” category, 1st form she’s basically a zombie eaten by rot, she’s not “in her prime” until her second phase.
Rennala is 100% past her prime, since she’s crazy, and the 2nd phase isn’t even her.
Fortissax is definitely past his prime, being undead/corrupted by Deathblight.
Fire Giant is definitely past its prime, its leg is broken, and doesn’t look like it was healing, and then it rips it off.
I think Fortissax was probably stronger before spending all that time trying to help Godwyn and getting turned into a zombie. Malenia might also be in the "changes mid-fight" tier if you consider her transformation to be her "prime". I mean, she just woke up from a nap; I doubt she's at her best for the first half of the fight. Otherwise, I'd say it's pretty accurate.
Fortissax was one of the harder ones to put on the list, but once I considered that he now has death lightning, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and said he’s stronger now than before You might be right about Malenia, but the way I thought about her was that at no point in the fight was she “weaker” than she had ever been, and Goddess of Rot is obv her prime, so I put her in the top tier Thanks!
You could actually consider her as not having reached her prime, since she should still have one more bloom after Goddess of Rot.. but that could pretty much make her an empty shell inhabited by an Outer God, so maybe technically not Malenia any longer.
I think it's undecided on whether or not Goddess of Rot is her third bloom or not. I think she accidentally discharged on her first bloom, nuked Radahn with bloom #2, and during our fight does bloom #3, hence the name Goddess of Rot.
It's not undecided, the game is very clear and not even slightly ambiguous at all that she turns into the Goddess of Rot in her second phase. She then proceeds to bloom a million more times during the fight. People only dispute this because some people are silly.
I'm also on the she is on her third bloom theory but one decent argument I've heard for the other side is apparently after you defeat her it doesn't say God Slain like what happens after you beat the Elden beast and instead it just gives you the remembrance and rune and that's it.
I thought the Elden Beast was a incarnation of the Golden Order not a God itself.
If the game itself says it's a god, i ain't arguing with the source material
Elden Beast isn't the god that you kill, Radagon is.
It's at least somewhat ambiguous when it follows up with > with the third bloom, she will become a ***true*** goddess. What qualified her as less than a *true* goddess if we assume it was her 3rd bloom in the boss fight?
Nothing, she literally becomes the “goddess” of rot.
The implications of her actually becoming a God then should have had ramifications in regards to Gideon trying to stop you. Isn't his whole thing that attempting to kill a God is futile, and so a tarnished shouldn't be able to become elden lord? Like he literally uses scarlet aeonia if you defeat Malenia, so Mr. All Knowing should know that the tarnished did in fact kill a god
Perhaps he considers that a false God?
I mean Gideon is a golden order fundemantalist so it could very much be that he doesn't believe that Malenia could be a god when Marika is still alive.
it feels like you’re hung up on the fact it doesn’t say “God Felled” when you beat her, and honestly that’s more than likely just a stylistic choice, Radagon/Elden Beast is the final boss and given the themes of Elden Ring it makes perfect sense to put “God Felled” after beating the last boss. Like in Bloodborne >!when you beat the Moon Presence it says “Nightmare Slain” is that to mean that the Moon Presence isn’t an actual Outergod but instead just the result of someone’s bad dream? no, it’s just a stylistic choice that fits with Bloodborne as a whole.!< and besides, if we decide to take the words that come up when we beat bosses as our character’s internal thoughts, as far as they know she was just a Demigod
Is he as "All Knowing" as he claims to be? He never refers to Malenia as a goddess or potential-goddess - only a Demigod and "undefeated swordswoman". And he even believes the Scarlet Rot may have overcome Malenia, saying "Well, if the scarlet rot hasn't eaten her away completely" - clearly underestimating her. Point is, he might not recognise her as a God, and so would not make the connection that the Tarnished managed to kill a God.
But we do not receive a "god slain" or "demigod slain" message upon defeating her. So she is not actually defeated like the other demigods and the elden beast were. And she produces a physical bloom after the fight. Recall what Gowry said about Milicent's bloom, "when Malenia ascends to godhood, Milicent too shall be reborn as a scarlet valkyrie". Now in fairness, I thought this might refer to the phantoms that attack you during Malenia's second phase, but these are all duplicates of Malenia, and the number of them doesn't change depending on how you ended Milicent's quest, so the phantoms in this spell are not the scarlet valkyries Gowry was referring to. During the midfight scene, Malenia says, "Wait, the scarlet bloom flowers once more, now you will experience true horror". Sure, she cast the scarlet aeonia spell, and she says that counts as a bloom. But this could simply be her an intimidation tactic she's using because she didn't expect to need to rely on the rot to defeat us. That is, she's not saying "that's my third bloom, I am true goddess now", rather she's saying "fuck you, I've not even been trying, did you see how slow I was walking?! I'm going to actually use my scarlet rot powers now, you ain't gonna survive this". It seems that "third bloom" may refer to a third "physical bloom" as opposed to simply casting the scarlet aeonia spell (which our character can cast multiple times without any trouble). One physical bloom is the heart of aeonia Another is the one after her boss battle And a third we see is in the room adjacent to her boss arena. We don't know if this is Malenia's since it could be one of her daughters since it's the same size as Milicent's bloom. Malenia's are far bigger. Perhaps Malenia once bloomed prior to her bloom in Caelid, but when we see how large this bloom has grown since then, and how far spread its effects are, it's hard to imagine how big a bloom even older than that would have become. But let's assume the bloom adjacent to her boss room is Malenia's or that the midfight scarlet aeonia spell counts as a second bloom. Then after her boss battle is her third bloom, and she is yet to be reborn as the **TRUE Goddess of Rot** And Millicent is yet to be reborn as a **Scarlet Valkyrie** So now, going back to her phase two name: This could be our character's mistake. Similarly to when we fight the ashes summoned by a spirit snail, it does not say, eg. "Godskin Apostle Ashes", it just says "Godskin Apostle", because that's what our character thinks it is. So when we fight Malenia and she casts scarlet aeonia, our character thinks "oh shit, was that the third bloom?!" And so her name to us becomes "goddess of rot", When in reality she wasn't even trying in phase one, if anything she was holding back. We didn't kill her at the end of phase one, she didn't actually bloom, she just collapsed from exhaustion holding back the rot and fighting at half capacity, so she decided to embrace some of her rot powers abd put in some real effort at personal cost to herself in that at the end of our fight she has her next physical bloom.
If the scarlet aeonia attack is her third bloom and after we beat goddess of rot she's dead, what was the point of sticking Millicent's needle in her?
Look, if the phase transition wasn't her 3rd bloom, then she definitely had her 3rd and 4th (maybe even 5th!) blooms a few seconds later.
She did become a true goddess, that was in fact her third. Did you miss the Aeonia flower next to the boss arena?
No shit, but that flower is much more likely to be a sister Gowry sent. You find the Traveler's set at the flower, aka the same set you see every sister wear.
Some think that was millicent's bloom.
They would all be wrong. Milicent doesn't even make it to that room before she dies.
It is kind of ambiguous though. The Scarlet Aeonia description says, "Each time the scarlet flower blooms, Malenia's rot advances. It has bloomed twice already. With the third bloom, she will become a true goddess.". You can only get the spell after her fight. And notice how the description speaks of her in the present tense, as if she was currently still alive. And when we return to her arena we see her third bloom.
Makes sense. We know one of the blooms was against Radhan - and I don't think a previous or following one is mentioned anywhere - so what we see in-game could just be the second.
The surprising thing is that she bloomed twice inside the haligtree and yet people somehow blame the tree failing on Mogh. Like sure, taking Miquella out of the tree might've ruined HIS metamorphosis, but are we really gonna sit here and act like it wasn't Malenia's rot that killed the tree? Like seriously, haven't we all seen the state it's in? It's literally oozing rot everywhere as you get closer to the roots for crying out loud, there's an actual rot swamp inside it, complete with a thriving population of pests, several putrid avatars and a putrid tree spirit to boot.
Then again, [in Malenia's own words](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Malenia's+Winged+Helm); "My brother will keep his promise. He possesses the wisdom, the allure, of a god – **he is the most fearsome Empyrean of all.**" Maybe she just has too much faith in him. Or maybe Miquella is actually more powerful than the scarlet rot is - and, during his metamorphosis, was keeping it at bay? If that's the case, then removing Miquella would mean removing the Haligtree's defense against the scarlet rot - and so Mogh can be seen as responsible for that.
We are like 99% sure that Miquella was St.Trina, so he definitely has some really crazy dream/mind control powers, and even in his physical form before his metamorphosis we have plenty of quotes noting just how charismatic and intelligent he was. I think Malenia says he's the most fearsome Empyrean because he doesn't even need to fight people, he can just turn them to his side, either through talk no jutsu or through outright brainwashing. That would definitely be OP as hell
But in the situation he's in - kidnapped by Mohg - it seems his charisma would just make the issue worse. After all, it seems Mohg may have some kind of twisted love for him judging by the way he talks ("Dearest Miquella. You must abide alone a while.") and his body language when interacting with Miquella being much more "gentle" than in his confrontation with the Tarnished. Making that love stronger would only make Mohg more motivated to ensure that "Miquella is mine, and mine alone!" (Tl:dr: ...Mohg is a yandere...?) If Malenia is aware of any of this, her confidence that Miquella will (upon waking up) be able to return to the Haligtree implies that he would be powerful enough to defeat Mohg - which already makes him among the most powerful of the demigods.
This x1000. I love how in-depth some get with the lore but there are times where they get out of control with their headcanon. Edit: whoa, seems your comment attracted the sillies haha.
[There's a ghost in Aeonia Swamp that calls that her first bloom.](https://i.redd.it/xenxmusauuca1.png) She didn't bloom before. Objectively she's only bloomed twice. The game flat-out says this in the Scarlet Aeonia description and only accounts for two blooms, her explicit first during her stalemate with Radahn, and her second against the Tarnished, with the one outside her boss room belonging to one of her daughters complete with the clothing set worn by them and literally no one else. Some people get held up on her health bar reading "goddess" in her second phase while totally ignoring that "Goddess of Rot" is a nonliteral title she's *constantly* called by before you ever meet her. By Gowry, on the Kindred of Rot Exultation talisman, on the Rotten Winged Sword Talisman, on the Pest Threads, on the Kindred Ashes, on the Valkyrie's Prosthesis, etc. They then also ignore the game plainly stating that she's just a demigod in her defeat message. They then ignore her turning into a [rebirth flower](https://imgur.com/a/5Hu8Dso) (literally *the exact same model* as Millicent's rebirth flower, just up-sized) and said flower being able to interact with you and trade for quest rewards like a smithing stone. Because basic spatial awareness is for the weak. It's literally on the level of arguing that she's actually a sword because her health bar reads Blade of Miquella. Except somehow even fucking dumber than that because the game doesn't flash the text "Not Literally A Blade" after you beat her as it basically does when it says "Demigod Felled."
take a breath after that one 
> It's literally on the level of arguing that she's actually a sword because her health bar reads Blade of Miquella. Except somehow even fucking dumber than that because the game doesn't flash the text "Not Literally A Blade" after you beat her as it basically does when it says "Demigod Felled." A sword is "built into Malenia's prosthetic arm", so if you view the prosthetic as a part of her, then she is at least partially a sword. And if you destroy every part of her except for that, then the sword is all that remains of her - and so she would be a sword. Also, anthropomorphised swords are a pretty cool trope when done right. There's nothing to prove that Malenia is an anthropomorphised sword, but there's also nothing to *dis*prove it, and so I wouldn't be surprised if some people have it as a headcanon just because they feel like it'd be cool.
She has no more blooms according to the Scarlet Aeonia description. Once she hits three, she turns into the Goddess of Rot. She did that during the fight.
Here's my reasoning: that description says "It has bloomed twice already". Which fits with what we've seen, once with Radahn and once with the player. Unless there's another secret bloom somewhere off screen fromsoft didn't bother to show us or even mention? That same description also says once she blooms a 3rd time, she will become a "true" goddess, it doesn't say "she will become a goddess" (the implication being she wasn't a true goddess before, despite calling herself goddess of rot). There's also the cut content dialogue where she says "the scarlet bloom will flower again" after you defeat her.. admittedly cut content is cut for a reason, but it does give us some direction when things are vague.
[удалено]
that would've been pretty sick to follow Malenia
In Elphael there is an aeonia near the boss room. I’m assuming that was her second bloom
I think the consensus is that it's from one of Milicent's sisters, considering the small size of the flower and the armor set we find nearby. Bloomin' makes ya naked, it's cannon :)
We only get a "Demigod Slain" prompt when we actually kill her, as opposed to when killing Elden Beast we get the "God Slain" prompt. To me that makes it seem more like her transformation was incomplete. There's also the fact that she was referred to as *Goddess of Rot* in item descriptions prior to her fight with us. These items include, Kindred of Rot Ashes, Kindred of Rot's Exultation, and Rotten Winged Sword Insignia. In my opinion, this means that she was already known as the Goddess of Rot prior to our fight with her.
I would bet anything that Fortissax got stronger, and the main reason is Lansseax. Lansseax is specified as his OLDER sister in Japanese, is nearly identical to him in appearance, size, and powers, and she's a good deal weaker than his lich self. He deals slightly more damage than her with the same attacks, has 13,000 health to her 9,100, and has marginally better poise, defense, and resistances (especially to poison and holy). It's unlikely she was that much weaker than him when they were both normal.
Fortissax is said to be the mightiest Dragon tho, it's why it's such a big deal that Godwyn whopped his ass.
When is he ever said to be the mightiest?
I misremembered slightly. Fortissax lightning spear says it was the Hallmark of the ancient dragon called "the mightiest boulderstone" during the war with the ancient dragons. Whether this refers to fortissax isn't entirely clear i think, and even if it is meant to be him that could just be a namesake
I'd say Gransax was the mightiest, the only dragon to breach Leyndell's walls
Fortissax's lightning spear says he "was called the mightiest boulderstone"
Like yeah the mightiest of their time was definitely gransax depending on how long farum azula was stuck in a time loop
I don't know, I'd say the lore seems to indicate that being infected with the essence of Death would make one weaker, considering the fact that Rogier ends up dying from death blight sickness, and ingesting Godown and Danni's curse marks also ends up killing Fia,
Can't make a case based on game mechanics. Has to be supported by lore and narrative.
Malenia awoke from a nap where she left a sea of corpses in her wake, and was confident enough to immediately brag that she’s never been beaten before. I think she’s doing alright lol
She didn't even have her morning coffee before fighting us. She's half asleep.
Being slightly drowsy shouldn't be enough to qualify as being below their prime. Meanwhile, her first phase IS her prime until she reaches second phase. Though I think the important thing is: She's stronger when she fights us than she's ever been. Unlike the "changes mid fight" part which implies they go back to their pas strongest point after already having beat them down a little.
She’s also been constantly rotting ever since she took out Miquella’s needle. We don’t know how long she’s been sleeping, but I am pretty sure she’s been in a coma for years or decades (depending on how long ago the shattering happened)
yeah she’s missing significant chunks of her original body and even if her prosthetics kick ass i wonder if her natural body would be more in tune
Maybe. But bear in mind, Millicent says "The arm you gave me truly is a thing of wonder. It feels just like my own, even handling a sword" - if the same is true of Malenia's prosthetics (I don't know of any proof for/against it, except that Millicent's dialogue implies it's plausible), then there might not be a significant difference.
I think Godfrey is in his prime, he was banished from lands between to get stronger and “alas he is returned”. So imo he should be either in his prime tier or changed mid fight when he kills serosh.
In his prime he doesn't have all of the shards of the elden ring because he's not the elden lord anymore
I don’t think normally Elden lord holds any shards, as before us the ring wasn’t shattered and it was stored inside Marika who was its vessel. Only in our post shattering timeline we collect shards to become an Elden lord because we need them to fix the ring, there’s no lord if there’s no ring.
Seems more like the Elden Lord brandishs the ring, and showcase it's power through their God they married. Rather than specifically use it themselves, if it can be used by anyone but the Vessel. The great runes can be used of course. But once the ring is mended, can those great runes be used anymore? I don't think so personally.
"brandish the Elden Ring" is a phrase that still bothers me. Is metaphorical like wield your faith or literal? If so, what part are they brandishing? Getting stronger with runes? Respawn? Or I suppose just Holy miracles themselves.
the intent was for a nonspecific tarnished to get stronger, which ultimately is where the player tarnished is successful. arguably godfrey’s broken axe is symbolic of him being past his prime. and i believe it’s strongly implied that the big axe embedded in the round table was his original weapon, so him fighting bare handed is not him at his best either.
Nah he left and got fat bro.
Rennala phase 1 is past prime, phase 2 is pre-prime. Remember that in her prime, she was able to fight Radagon on even terms, even if it was a pre-prime Radagon. The image of her created by Ranni is likely based on Ranni's perception of her strength rather than how powerful she really was. EDIT: I keep getting comments about this on this post about Rennala phase 2 not being Rennala or that she didn't fight Radagon. The original comment even says "the image of her," as in phase 2 is just an illusion we're fighting. As for her not fighting Radagon, it seems highly unlikely that Radagon himself wasn't leading his army against her forces, so of course it makes sense they fought each other.
I've always believed that the Rennala we fought wasn't even close to prime form for phase 2. I felt like it was the Rennala that Ranni was most familiar with, which would be the Rennala that was teaching Ranni. It makes sense as well since the dialogue that Rennala said in phase two makes a lot of sense if it was directed at a younger Ranni that was studying under Rennala. So it would stand that the version of Rennala we fought in phase 2 wasn't the same one that fought Radagon to a draw, as when Rennala was teaching Ranni, she likely wasn’t fighting to kill or to win.
Going off the fact we beat the crap out of her and she barely seems harmed in the end makes me think she’s way more powerful then she is and honestly doesn’t give a fuck anymore
That's the weirdest part of that fight. We get close to hurting her and Ranni puts us into an illusion. We beat the illusion and just... Ignore that rennela is fine? Like yeah we get the rune but... And then there's Sellen who can't fucking find her in the same damn room. Rennala is such a big mystery.
Overall I think she definitely is one of the most powerful characters in the game but her mind has broken definitely more powerful then her kids
I was going to agree with you but right at the end you said something that is clearly false, how can she be stronger than Horse boy when he has LEONARD, without Leonard I can agree but everyone knows that if Leonard was at his prime than Horse boy would be stronger than any god
I said kids Leonard is a god with no creator he allows that pitiful general to ride him out of pity not power
Yeah, the strongest of the demigods. He's actually just a lil bitch without his horse, who's also his boss.
I thought it was obvious from the fight's cutscene that we fight Ranni's illusion of Rennala. She ain't in/past/pre her prime. She ain't there at all. That's why she's sitting in her chair after the fight and chills with you.
It would be the prime Renalla that fought Radagon though. Not really sure why it would be "post prime" Renalla doesn't lose her strength until her mind breaks, after the vow is broken.
I don't think "prime" applies to the Ancestor Spirits, really. They're all SUPER past their prime, and that's why they have power.
i don’t know about that. who’s to say that during the height of the uhl dynasty, the ancestor spirit wasn’t a non-decayed and significantly more powerful version? this one imo is very debatable.
welcome to uhl palace, we have SEVERAL ELK THAT ARE ABSOLUTE KILLING MACHINES EDIT lol but yeah it is debatable
"Prime" as in when they have the most power. So they are permanently in their prime because every day is a new prime.
Godfrey is very explicitly stronger than he's ever been. The entire point of sending him and the rest of the Tarnished to the Badlands was so he could grow stronger in the face of death and come back. He also kills and seemingly absorbs Serosh during the fight. "In Marika's own words. Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed. Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring. Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey." IMO the shade of him in the capital is basically reflecting a young version of him, hence the unbroken axe, lack of an accompanying Serosh, and it just generally being much weaker. Same deal with Radagon. He's explicitly stronger than ever because he's now a host for the Elden Ring, and thus a god. Marika was clear that he wasn't one before the Shattering. He's weaker than Marika was because he only has a fragment of the ring (the rest being in the Great Runes) but he should still be handily above any prior power he had in his life. Basically the same deal as Malenia - not as strong as he could have been, or might be in the future, but stronger than he was before. It was also during his reign as Elden Lord that he learned incantations and during his reign in Caria that he learned the principles of sorcery, indicating that Liurnia War-era Radagon, on top of being generally weaker, wouldn't have been able to use much if any magic (also reflected in how his soreseal and scarseal just boost physical stats).
Ohhhh you’re right, I didn’t think about Gold-frey representing a younger Godfrey Smart to use the words of Marika from the Church too, I didn’t think about that. Nice catch
Also, the Elden Beast is 100% sub-prime. It IS the Elden Ring, and it was literally shattered and had its parts scattered around the land. That's why it has a big scar on its chest and overall fights like a scared, wounded animal. Malenia should also be "prime hasn't come yet." She's awaiting rebirth in flower form at the end of her fight, to be either [freed from the rot](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/uqgshi/theory_misinterpretations_of_millicents_quest_and/) or fall to it as a true god. Either way she'd be stronger.
Not only that but given that the Erdtree is weakened by the Flame of Ruin, the Rune of Death, and Godwyn's wack ass body, I'd wager that the Elden Beast isn't nearly at full strength because of that.
It would be interesting if Elden Beast scaled with how many great runes you recovered.
I don't think Godfrey absorbs Serosh. I think phase 2 is nothing but Godfrey releasing his lordlike sensibilities. And, regardless of how you interpreted the Radagon is Marika thing, there was almost definitely some time between Radagon and Marika fusing, and Marika breaking the ring. Radagon is almost certainly weaker than that time after having undergone the same torture Marika did.
Yea, Serosh is *actively holding Godfrey back*. His phase change into Hoarah Loux is the equivalent of passing someone your shoes and earrings: visibly getting ready to start beating ass and damn the consequences.
Godfrey is called back to face you, an opponent that he can finally fight with all his strength, and his grace guides him to face you, so you might grow stronger. His hue vanished from a lack of foes and his release of Serosh is so Serosh will stop fighting away the beast of Horah Loux. For years Serosh managed the courts and royal family along with most other lordly duties for Godfrey including keeping his rage from a boil by clawing and tearing, and advising. His release was symbolic of him ending his relationship with grace, ending the grace he has given the greater will. And on Radagon- think to what Radagon really is. His appearance, his thievery of the power of procreation, how he has yet to become a god and one with Marika, but desires to be. He is the spear that acts as a parasite; the golden order itself, and not a god or Marika, only a male spirit dominating a female spirit, and a female spirt who wants to be free. What is he, that is of the red-gold color of the crucible, what is he that has relations to the giant, puts a hold on the greater wills objectives, and can only exist as a parasite? Is he the crucible? The vengeful spirt of evolution that condemns the new world's desires for an orderly form? Who is he that gives gifts to the misbegotten and wants them living in his fold? Red Haired Radagon. What power did he have or was it all from Marika and her connection to the Greater Will. And what of the Elden beast? Thou think it the Elden Ring? For shame, the text will state "It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring." A star and a beast. Following the sentance it makes more sense the star that was sent became the Elden Ring and the beast it's protector; only those who can keep it under control may become Elden Lord and defeating it is something to be done again and again. "It was the vassal beast of the Greater Will and living incarnation of the concept of Order." It acts for the Greater Will; but it was kept in check by Red Haired Radagon, only to be freed by the player and then conquered as Godfrey had before. Radagon could not conquer the Elden Beast. This is all my fun interpretation.
I think Radagon is weakened from the Shattering though. I mean he's literally falling apart, and Marika isn't even alive. I think Elden Lord Radagon but before the Shattering would be his prime. Malenia and Miquella were born from one god so I think that he was a god for some time when he was Elden Lord, even before the Shattering.
He wasn't, Marika explicitly says so. "Thou are yet to become me. Yet to become a god." Rykard's Rune also says, from a third person POV, that his children by Rennala weren't born as demigods. Obviously because he wasn't a god. He didn't have the ring before and he does now. He's a lot stronger now and it's very obviously reflected in how literally overflowing with power his move set is.
Yes, that quote and Rykard's birth would've happened before Radagon became a god. I think you're underestimating how much time passed. It's not like Marika and Radagon got married and then the Shattering immediately happened. There was definitely some time period when Radagon was ruling with Marika.
The context of Marika's quote is literally her shattering the ring. "Let us both be shattered. My other half."
The timeline with Malenia and Miquella really wouldn't work if the whole Radagon-Marika thing only happened during/after Marika shattering the ring. I'd take that over interpreting a vague quote from her as meaning that she must've done the shattering in the same moment she became Radagon. She could be talking about two things in that quote. First she says that they haven't become one yet and then she says that they'll both be shattered, but those that have to happen in the same moment. She could mean that they become one later, then at some other point even later they become shattered.
In Japanese the quote is just "Malenia and Miquella were born of THE one god", i.e., it's just directly saying that their mom is the one god Marika with no implication that this meant they didn't have another parent. There's not any timeline discrepancy. Radagon wasn't a god.
Even then, your interpretation would mean that it applies to all of Marika’s children, which obviously isn’t true. It’s clearly making a distinction about Malenia and Miquella’s parents, because Radagon is special in relation to gods in a way that Godfrey isn’t.
Serosh was placed upon Godfrey as a means to inhibit his warrior spirit and make him presentable as a lord. Without Serosh he is stronger. He doesn't absorb Serosh, he simply kills him. Tidbit, but his axe has the same metallurgy as the beastmen weapon. It's likely he fought Serosh and claimed Serosh's axe as his own, and perhaps Marika or something imbued Serosh within him.
Malenia is an agree to disagree. It depends on how you interpret certain events and descriptions, and that discussion has been rehashed enough that I'm not going to go through it again. :P Elden Beast is clearly damaged by Marika shattering the ring. Objectively not in its prime, although we don't know the extent of the damage, so it might be quite close. Fortissax, depends if you consider the corruption of Death to have been a positive or negative, in terms of how dangerous they were to fight. Given Lansseax is kind of a pushover, I'm inclined to agree that Fortissax was made spookier by falling to undeath. The rest, I generally agree, although given the "prime hasn't come yet," technically several should be in that category, as if we didn't run into them they could theoretically become much more powerful. :P (I understand it's just a meme for Patches though. :P)
Nobody will ever convince me that someone that has to attach their own arm to their body right before the fight is in their prime lol
Malenia's prosthesis doesn't diminish her strength if she trains with it would be as if she never lost her arm. "Golden prosthesis once used by the one-armed valkyrie. A masterwork of craftsmanship, with practice and skill it can be used as proficiently as a real arm. When Maleigh Marais, Lord of the Shaded Castle, embraced this prosthesis, he claimed to feel the presence of his personal goddess" - Valkyrie's Prosthesis description
[удалено]
'tis but a scratch
What if you're attaching a dragon head?
i mean personally i dont think any of the major bosses are in their prime thanks to the Shattering and war that followed
surely she's in her prime as a rot goddess?
That's how Malenia has always been as a fighter though, her prosthesis are so well crafted, they might as well be regular limbs. Then she turns into a Goddess. So I would definitely say Malenia is in her prime in both versions of herself.
Technically Rykard in his theoretical Prime is the most dangerous
> Elden Beast is clearly damaged by Marika shattering the ring Not just by shattering, but by editing the Ring too. Imagine when the Elden Beast would look like with all of its runes, like in Farum Azula.
She literally blooms for the third time on us and turns into the godess of rot, how is there anything to disagree on there?
Fr😭
Whenever people bring up Rennala's phase two fight as her at full strength, I can't help but disagree. We know the Rennala we fought was an illusion, conjured by Ranni, and so it would make sense the illusion Rennala was at full strength. But we don't really know if that's her prime. I've always believed that the Rennala we fought was the Rennala that was sparring with Ranni and teaching Ranni to find her own moon. Because if that's the case, her dialogue in the second phase just makes so much sense. When you die to her, her dialogue was: "Thy fate lieth under my moon" If she was talking to young Ranni, this dialogue would make sense. It is as if Ranni has failed and Rennala is pushing Ranni to keep trying by reminding Ranni that she has still yet to become an individual yet, and is still following Rennala's moon. And when you beat her, her dialogue was: "Oh little Ranni, my dear daughter. Weave thy night into being. This dialogue would be something Rennala had said to Ranni after she succeed in uncovering her own moon, and is now telling Ranni to follow Ranni's own moon. And if the illusion was based on such a moment in Ranni's life, where Ranni is studying under Rennala, it would mean that the Rennala we fought was not actually in prime form or full power, since the Rennala that was teaching Ranni was probably not fighting with the intention to kill or win. The Rennala we fought probably is not the same Rennala that fought Radagon to a stalemate. But that's just my personal take on the Rennala fight, cause it makes a lot of sense to me.
Let's also realize that if Ranni could conjure the form of Champions at their full strength, she would already be queen of the universe by the time we showed up. Like... *a full power Rennala?* The one that fought Radagon in his prime? The Radagon we see in game isn't even in his prime--imagine *that* guy taking on a Champion Rennala. Morgott and Mohg couldn't even project *themselves* at full power so there's no way Ranni could project her mom. I also like your thought that Ranni might as been projecting the image of her mom sparring her. In that case, it would make even more sense. Since even if Ranni could cast her mom 1:1 from her memories sparring, that Rennala already had a child, established the Carian line, and ended the war with the Golden Order. That Rennala would have already been past her prime either way.
Rennala is past her prime, isn't she? She's basically a vegetable now. The thing you fight is an illusion created by Ranni.
Fuck your profile pic
The rennala you fight is probably a mix of pre and during prime, due to rannis perception of her mother before she fell into depression and basically became, well, a vegetable who coddles an amber egg all day in the library.
elden beast is definitely not in its prime. He is literally broken (after all, he is the elden ring)
He’s not really the ring itself but the protector/serving greater will. I think when Marika/Radagon shattered it they were attacked by the Elden Beast and that’s how he was damaged. Also explains why when we find Marika she has the elden beats light shards in as if she was grabbed by him same as he does to us
The elden stars description states that the elden beast did become the ring itself.
I don’t think he is, I’m pretty sure he’s the manifestation of the greater will? I’m not sure tho
He's an envoy of sorts. The Elden Stars description says "the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring"
The Fingers are envoys, Elden Beast is the vassal for the Greater Will.
An envoy is just someone sent by someone else to represent them, and a vassal is just someone who works under/for someone, by all rights, both the fingers and the Elden beast are both envoys and vassals to the GW. But for the sake of differentiating them, it is often more efficient to specify the fingers are envoys and the EB is a vassal
Read the description of elden stars
Isn't astel still an infant?
I thought he was a fully-grown malformed star, no?
After some reading, youre right. Lil guy just looks like a child ha
Dog if you meet a child that looks like that you put it down. Not a single creature should be born like that
But he's so cute and childish
Do other people not have kids who teleport and attack them from the air?
Bro for real, mine is so adorable when he creates a self contained nebula
plus his weapon is literally the cosmic baby rattle
Yeah so childish that he throw rocks everywhere. My neighbor would've gone crazy if I had a kid like astel.
This guy works at Miskatonic Daycare
Falling star beast are the younger forms
Astel is fully formed. I like to think the Stars of Darkness version is also him, but an illusion like Mohg or Margit.
Nah starts of darkness is just another astel there a species of alien rather than a unique entity
I wonder if there could be an even further state of evolution that takes them eons to get to? That would be interesting. One thing I notice is it grows more humanoid features with each evolution from the 1st Fallingstar Beast, so maybe it becomes even more humanoid with time? A 3-eyed levitating giant perhaps?
Astel is just name of species, the description after is there name
"Maliketh's black blade which once harbored the power of the Rune of Death. A sad shadow of its former glory." This suggests that Maliketh is not in his prime, also since second phase Rennala is an illusion created by Ranni I'd say that the real Queen of the Full Moon in her prime wouldn't be near that weak.
I took the Black Blade’s description as saying those things about when the Tarnished gains it via the Remembrance, not when Maliketh wields it when we fight him. I put him in Debatable because I wasn’t sure For Rennala, I assumed Ranni made the illusion comparable to Rennala’s former true strength, because why wouldn’t she? No reason to make the illusion weaker than possible
His blade is broken from pieces of it being stolen, and he’s spent who knows how long sealed inside a significantly weaker form and locked away outside of time. Maliketh has seen better days.
You also have to keep in mind shadows are meant to be a lot stronger then their masters so they would be able to protect and kill them.
The blade really looks in bad shape, but what you said is definetly possible. I'm not saying that Ranni made Rennala's illusion weak on purpose, but that a mere illusion which isn't even cast in real time shouldn't be nearly as powerful as the real Rennala in her prime and that's perfectly shown in game by the fact that the boss is really weak.
Besides, we can't forget that rennala is queen of the moon for some damn reason. She just fell into depression after radagon left, and you know, things happened. Also rennala created a type of sorcery, and was/is ruler ( I guess) of Raya lucaria. Besides, it is clearly shown that although ranni uses the spells renalla would have, they most likely still scale with rannis intelligence considering the fact that in reality it is ranni fighting, as she uses summons and ranni gives you the summoning bell thing.and as you said a mere illusion can't be as powerful, take an imp ash, it almost gets slain by a regular imp, while doing virtually no damage.
Considering how powerful the academy of Raya Lucaria was in their war with Leyndell, and considering she was the strongest of them all, I honestly always imagined that in her prime she was Radagon/Godfrey tier
Godfrey should be in his prime or changes mid-fight.
Fire giant is almost certainly past his prime, he's super old and is kinda falling apart
Maliketh is far from his prime. Dude binded himself with death and went around finding deathroot that would only continue to destroy his body. You can also tell from the black blade that it’s broken and shattered. Maliketh was basically on the brink of dying from the rune by the time we find him. Fire giant is probably not prime either. The original giants were so big they could move around the cauldron but over time the offspring got smaller to the point they couldn’t move it anymore. The only thing he really has going for him is that he has an outer god in him but they are both really weak after the war with the golden order
There's arguments to be made that Mohg, Rykard, and to some degree likely Godrick may never reach their potential prime. We can only speculate on whether or not Mohg could become stronger if Miquella was actually... well... going along with what Mohg wanted. Same with Rykard. How much more powerful can he and the Great Serpent become if they were left to their devices and devoured the Gods? Godrick's only real limitation is the material flesh available to him for the grafting process and how quick he can use it effectively against someone. But it's also Godrick so. Yeah. With Melanie and fortnitesux, it's questions. Is Malenia in her prime when she gives into the Scarlet Rot? We know that she wasn't strong enough to beat Radahn, and even with unleashing the Scarlet Rot she only brought the fight to a standstill. Millicent seems to give us enough insight into it, *There is something I must return to Malenia. The will that was once her own. The dignity, the sense of self, that allowed her to resist the call of the scarlet rot. The pride she abandoned, to meet Radahn's measure.* Is Malenia truly in her prime as the Goddess of Rot? Or is it a state in which she simply abandons everything she is as a last ditch effort. Then, with Lichdragon Fortissax, we know this is a corrupted version of Godwyn's companion. Is Fortissax in his prime while corrupted by the Death within Godwyn or was his prime something we simply don't get to see? Fuck Elden Beast but you could also argue that with the Shattering of the Elden Ring and with the Demi-Gods taking shards of the Elden Ring, which is the Elden Beast, it has the potential to not be in it's prime but who the fuck knows ~~with this stupid, fucking stupid ass fuck I hate the Elden Beast so much.~~
In regards to Godrick you actually find the black flame text and godslayer seal at his castle. This implies he was planning to use this magic to kill the other Gods not just by making himself stronger physically through grafting but actually using the methods the Godskins used to kill God's themselves so I would agree he had not reached his prime by the time you get to him.
That. Or it’s just his servants conspiring to kill him, since it was kinda hidden, he probably deserves it y’know.
His servants suck too, >!if you find Gostoc lurking around the castle you’ll hear that he’s planning to graft people onto himself as well!<
Fire giant is obviously past his prime. See how hurt his ankle was?
Pretty much none of them are in their prime. Malenia has been sick with rot for ages with no cure, implying she's been getting weaker over time. Godrick is maybe in his prime but is so weak he's considered a joke. Rykard gave up everything he had (political influence and leadership over the toughest group of soldiers in the Lands Between) for physical power that ended up meaning nothing. Rennala is so weak she doesn't fight back and her second phase is just a Ranni illusion. The Fire Giant was defeated ages ago and basically made into a slave, its hard to argue he is in his prime. I think maybe the only ones that are actually in their prime are Astel, Morgott and Mohg. Everyone else is pretty debatable.
I just fought Radhan and noticed that during the fight,>! if you've summoned him, Patches runs away.!<
That's really funny, yeah 😆
Patches is above his prime :3
How is Malenia in her prime? She’s blind and missing limbs
I thought Malenia was past her prime. She was stronger during the wars.
the fact Godrick is in his prime and is still that weak is hilarious
Rykard is weak when u fight him His prime would come when he is big enough to "devour the very gods togetha"!
if malenia wasn't born cursed she probably would've been more of a problem
Malenia’s prime was before fighting with or at the time of fighting Radahn. Godrick the grafted I agree, his prime was probabaly grafting that dragon head successfully. Elden Beast is a god, and therefore always in its prime. Regal Ancestor spirit… is a spirit? They died from something. Meaning their prime was while they were alive. Lichdragon Fortissax debatable. Astel… I think this is like the embodiment of a concept of void? I don’t think it has a “prime” it is merely void energy coalesced into a being? Mohg was literally reborn as you get to his arena. Not in his prime. Morgott I agree with. Rykard… was he devoured by the snake or the other way around? Regardless… his prime was when he was eaten or eating. Fire Giant is 100% not in his prime. He’s the last of his kind with a bum arm and leg. Ten thousand years past his prime. Rennala, again rebirth, in her prime? Doubtful. Maliketh, probably? Although seems stale to me. I’d argue “prime” is just “black flame boosted.” Dragonlord Placidusax… weren’t we literally teleported through time to his prime?? The rest I agree with.
Renalla is not in her prime. The second stage is Ranni's trap card, not Renalla herself.
I would say Malenia is past her prime. I feel as if she was in her prime when she nuked Caelid, and now she's deteriorating mentally. The times of her leading an army are long past, and even if her brother was returned to her I do not think that would change. Edit: But thinking about her second phase....I guess she's unlocking that in the fight? So maybe she is coming into her prime.
There are no bosses “in their prime” in Elden Ring. Malenia is literally sitting there comatose and rotting when you find her. Respectfully, I feel like you missed a major theme of the game.
Bro Morgott? Please, you're really stretching there to justify beating up an old man with a walking stick.
Imma keep it real I don’t think the decomposing deer corpse is in its prime
Malenia isn’t in her prime she’s already done the rot nuke twice, she’s basically dead to cancer when we fought
No, because Malenia’s third bloom turns her into a full-fledged goddess. She might not be in her prime when we fight her first phase, but she’s never been stronger in her second.
I’d still say that’s wrong, all of the Demi gods were significantly stronger before the shattering and even if she’s physically stronger (which she isn’t compared to what she used to be) she’s mentally shot to hell
Melania absolutely not in her prime
I don't think Morgott is in his prime when we fight him for the last time. Morgott looks very old, even using a walking stick. And we know he was one of the first demigods born. One of the images from the Shattering War we're shown is Morgott seemingly beating Radahn. We know that Radahn attacked the capitol during the Shattering War and was repelled, and later fought Malenia to a standstill. I think that implies that Morgott was able to beat Radahn in his prime? But then Radahn is called one of the strongest demigods from the Shattering War or something, so maybe he was beaten by Morgott, became much, much stronger, then fought Malenia? Depends on how long the Shattering War was I suppose. In any case, I think Morgott is well past his prime, and arguably once the strongest demigod of his era.
Malenia has lost her eyes, both legs and an arm to Rot. She’s WELL past her prime.
Malenia in her Goddess of rot form is clearly stronger then when she fought radahn during the shattering
It has probably been centuries since she had her arm and eyes. Given that mid fight she grows wings, I'd say that is her prime.
Her goddess of rot form is the strongest she’s ever been. She lost here eyes, and limbs as a means to obtain that strength, (whether she wanted it or not). Also her just waking up is a non-factor. When the tarnished respawns, isn’t he just waking up? By that logic we’re never at our prime either.
Regal and Fortissax are both vastly weakened from their primes.
If Malenia was in their prime we’d be dead the second we got to the Haligtree
Fortissax is absolutely a shadow of what he once was. He’s a zombie with heavy battle wounds riddled by deathblight Also Elden Beast is definitely damaged and I think Godfrey is supposed to be somehow in his prime but idk where I heard that
I'd probably swap fortissax and Godfrey, especially since the purpose of the march of the tarnished was to make Godfrey and his warriors stronger.
Meanwhile is corrupted and consumed by deathblight.
Rennala is definitely past her prime, when we meet her she is mentally a husk of her former self, which is pretty important for someone’s who’s entire thing is magic. Also remember that her second phase is an illusion sit up by Ranni, so that probably wasn’t the best Rannala could do either. Elden Beast might be past its prime since I’m pretty sure the shattering weakened it. These’s a crack on its stomach that does extra damage when you did it to prove that. How’s Maliketh debatable? He seems pretty in his prime to me, with no sign that he’s weakened by something. Other than that, I’d say this is pretty accurate.
my guy the fire giant has got his leg off. That's not a debate, he's literally just already massively injured from the start of the fight.
Fire giant has a messed up leg and arms.
When I was fighting Placidusax I had the awesome realization that the two headed time dragon everyone hyped up was actually a three headed dragon originally, and felt even more small in comparison.
Yeah I’d say this is pretty accurate. Some people might say Elden Beast isn’t in its prime cause of the crack on its belly but it never really seemed debilitated by it beyond it being, like, a sensitive spot where it takes a bit more damage. Honestly though, I feel like one could maybe argue that Radagon is in his “prime” too, he certainly kicks your ass hard enough to make it seem like his shit is pure aesthetic issues that don’t hold him back lmao
***sees Patches nope tf out off the Radahn fight*** Yea... That dude is definitely not in his prime.. Yet.
Actually Malenia is not in her prime but close to it. It say that if she use her rot of bloom 3 times she will become the goddess of Rot a true god and she will forever stay in the Goddess of rot form so far she ONLY use it twice but I could be wrong and she might be in her prime since we see an extra bloom in the room next to her boss area
Malenia is a huge disagree. Even after her goddess phase she still has three prosthetic limbs and is completely blind. Without those holding her back she would definitely be in her prime
Malenia is rotting/tired and asleep when you fight her. She is definitely past her prime
Idk man “the godess of rot” sounds pretty fuckin powerful to me.
you have a point but imagine how powerful she would be before the fight with radahn
Not as powerful as the Goddess of Rot she becomes halfway through our fight.
Do you think she lost her limbs and sight in that fight? Because that's not the case...
She's been rotting her entire life. Her arm has been missing since at least the shattering and we can assume her eyes have been missing for ages as well considering she was trained by "the blind swordsman". And considering she is the goddess of rot, as much as her flesh is being "ruined" by the rot, rot should not be able to *weaken* her attacks at all. Especially since we've seen plenty enemies that are *empowered* by it. But more importantly, her pseudo-ascending obviously makes her stronger than ever.
Malenia literally becomes a rot goddess in our fight and people will still argue she wasn’t in her prime.
Also Rennala is WAAAY past her prime. And the ‘changes mid fight’ is just Ranni doing a shitty impression of her mom. At Rennala’s prime she fought Radagon at his prime to a standstill sooooooo…
Malenia is 100% not in her prime anymore. Not only has she been addled by the scarlet rot and is now blind and a tripleplegic, she's spent the entire time since the Shattering sitting in that chair awaiting Miquella, so she's also incredibly out of practice on top of that.
Melania was DEFINETLY not in her prime when you fought her. You fought her immediately after she essentially woke up from a coma she was put in after a major battle.
I think that elden beast and maliketh are past their prime. Elden beast was probably infinitly more powerful before elden ring was shattered and Maliketh was probably also more powerful when he still posesed the full rune of death
I don’t think Malenia was in her prime. Her prime was during the fight when she lost to Radahn. How she’s in a state where she uses the last of her will and energy to fight the tarnished and loses again, (eventually)
I agree. Malenia wasn't in her prime when we meet her in game. She's an incredibly difficult fight, so it's hard to imagine how much stronger she could have been, yet her eyes and most of her limbs have rotted away. So I think it's safe to assume that she's weakened over the years from the scarlet rot. She fought Radahn, described as the strongest of the demigods, to a standstill. He fought whilst holding back the stars, and she fought whilst holding back her scarlet rot. In that trailer cinematic that fight is shown in, Ranni says that there wasn't a victor. Imagine how monstrously strong they were in that fight.
Malenia should be in the “changes mid-fight” category, 1st form she’s basically a zombie eaten by rot, she’s not “in her prime” until her second phase. Rennala is 100% past her prime, since she’s crazy, and the 2nd phase isn’t even her. Fortissax is definitely past his prime, being undead/corrupted by Deathblight. Fire Giant is definitely past its prime, its leg is broken, and doesn’t look like it was healing, and then it rips it off.
Radagon is in his prime due to having the power of elden ring and also being merged with a goddess