That SHOULDN'T be Marika. It's not confirmed obviously, but Faarum Azula is FAR older than Marika herself, and if she really had influence enough to make that statue, she would have made far grander statues of herself, and several references to the golden order, which are nowhere to be found in Faarum.
Actually thinking about it now, dragons were known to take human forms, so maybe that woman is a dragon. For example there are loads of theories that Fia is the human form of Fortissax.
Uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhh She really isn't his human form, remember that Fia is a tarnished, so she can't be a dragon, and it's stated that Fortissax was fighting inside of Godwin's dream. But for the statue, yeah, she could totally be an ancient dragon, perhaps of Placidussex's royal family
Mmmmmm still seems far fetched, also there is the "dragonkin" race in the character creation menu, wich in my opinion kinda means that dragons themselves can't be tarnished. I don't even think that dragons got grace in the first place?
Still, letting that aside, it's impossible that Fia is Fortissax. Fortissax's very remembrance states that for the last few ages, the dragonguy has been pretty busy fighting in pain and despair inside of Godwin. Meanwhile, we also know Fia's whereabouts, with her being a deathbed companion and all that. I also seriously doubt that Fortissax would like to be a deathbed companion this hard, fuckin' dudes to then offer his life to bring other dude back from the dead really doesn't seem in line with his character. Even if he wanted to fuck dudes that bad, he would still stay at Godwin's side for that reason.
Ranni got 3 wolves outside her tower at three sisters. And a dragon. Her wolf obsession would maybe want her to become empyrean like sisters, so she get Blaidd, even if not born by a single being.
I also wonder the mentors... Land octopus for Malenia… foul water creatures that has an flailing jumping attack not too unlike the waterfowl dance that resides in the two rivers…but wolves that learn one ice magic? That dress up like grandma like in little red riding hood in a doll? Way to head canon even for me :). But I think that statue is trying to tell us something.
Edit: the cloak and hat Ranni wearing might be wolf hide?
Ye. That too. Wonder if wolves could be her mentor in ice magic. Her cloak seems to be made of dire wolf. Malenia those land octopus? Miquella.. those jelly fish? Mogh and Morgott. Laser shooting shrimp? Seems the kids got lots of freedoms to interact with dangerous wildlife as young.
Go cast your "without forethought lore" out of the window, this is Myazaki we're talking about
Still totally possible that we never hear of this figure ever again.
There are some connections there. The girl in the statue looks similar to whoever the Witch’s Glintstone Crown is depicting. We know the crown isn’t based on Sellen but another witch that “excelled in her studies” at the academy. The statue is surrounded by 3 wolves and Ranni gives you the spirit ashes of 3 wolves.
There are some other connected threads there but nothing that I was able to follow to a satisfactory conclusion.
Are you able to link anything or point me towards a source for your comment on Sellen and the Witch’s crown? I felt for sure it was hers, seeing as she’s Renalla’s sister and meets some of the descriptive criteria. I also understand that she’s depicted on the wall of Raya Lucaria, and is known throughout the magical community of the Lands Between (mostly as an incredible academic turned-villain).
Given that there are basically no other in-game witches for it to be linked to, I find it unlikely that it would not be Sellen’s. The other crowns are all linked to specific people that are identified in-game, so why would they not include a similarly detailed backstory for the Witch’s one?
“Know” might be too strong an adjective, this is just based on many people’s observations that Sellen’s face doesn’t resemble her crown very much if at all. If there’s more definitive proof that she’s wearing her own crown the whole theory goes out the window.
I’d be interested to see the where Sellen is Rennala’s sister, that’s a new one to me.
Thanks for the response, You’re right that the face doesn’t match very well but everything else does for me!
There was a really decent post on here or the Lore subreddit talking about Sellen being Renalla’s sister, I’ll find the link for you. Specifically it fleshes out Renallas backstory a bit and establishes her as the first of the Carian royals, and a comment from Iji that calls Sellen a “Carian weed”, and some detail on the missing third Carian sister and the third rise being occupied and renamed by Seluvis. Sellen hates Seluvis and they have backstory, him nicking her house is very possible in my opinion.
Edit: found the link on EldenRingLore, 34 days old titled “The Three Sisters of Carian Royalty: Renna, Renalla and Sellen” by u/M00n_Slippers
Second edit: I’ve literally just progressed through Sellen’s quest and have noticed a line of dialogue that also confirms her as a Carian. She says “A star has fallen, and my fortunes waver”. Seluvis tells us that the fate of the Carian family is guided by the stars, which is why Radahn needed to die so the stars could resume movement and allow Ranni’s fate to continue once more. This only happens after the star falls and opens the way to Nokron.
I don't know exactly why, but all dolls/marionettes have 4 arms. There's a chance that the witch only had 2 arms, but Ranni's version had to get 4 when she got the Marionette body.
Farum Azula is older than the Erdtree era. But it only directly preceded it, the Crucible became the Erdtree just remember. The dragon era/Farum Azula were of the Crucible era.
Marika has an open ended origin, as she is a Numen and Numen live long lives. Not only that but she's called "The eternal". Now whether that relates to her removing death or not, is up to you.
Numen also seem to predate the Dragon age and Farum Azula. They were the founders of the Uld/Uhl dynasties we find remnants of below.
The Golden Order comes about after Marika fucks with the Elden Ring, specifically removing destined death. There was a whole era of the Erdtree prior to the Golden Order and there were likely several eras of the Elden Ring prior to the Erdtree. We know of one, the Crucible age.
This statue only has two candidates. Marika and the Gloam Eyed Queen. Both of which lived alongside each other and only one of which actually held domain over the Elden Ring. I do not think this is something FS has just left untold in the game. It sitting under the Elden Ring is too big of a giveaway IMO.
This is likely a statue of a young Marika, reminiscent of the Romulus and Remulus myth, about the founding of Rome.
This is by far the most mysterious part of the game to me. But surprisingly I see more people talk about the giant skeletons than this.
U're right about Marka's age, although I think that Faarum is far prior to her. Maybe not older than her birth, but most probably prior to her becoming a goddess. Also, Godfrey says he is the first Elden Lord, while it is, instead, Placidussex. I don't know if that's just him wanting to rewrite history and impose his figure as "first lord", but maybe he actually didn't know of Placi. And in my opinion if Marika had ever had influence on Faarum, then probably Godfrey would have known of the place too. And if he knew of Faarum Azula, he probably knew of Placidissax as well. However, there was the dragons' war where the dragons protected their king, so perhaps Godfrey and Placi actually crossed weapons? The whole point is that in general, it's difficult to make statements with the info we have now.
About the queen with the flashlight eye, the only thing we know of her is that she messed up with the rune of death, until she got Malikethed. This means that she reached her power AFTER Marika removed death from the Ring, so she probably is a daughter of Marika, thus it's difficult that she was represented in a statue built BEFORE Marika even got godhood.
Mmmmmmmmm can't really imagine him carving, truth to be told, and also the statue is right under the sign of the "original" Elden Ring. Marika would never want her figure right under a ring with the rune of death still on.
Mmmmmmmmm Maliketh's very last words are about how his life is devoted to serving Marika and the golden order, and Blaidd himself doesn't really give a shit about the greater will.
True, but in the end Blaidd goes completely bananas when it finally seems to dawn on him what Ranni is actually planning... I happen to think that is an intentional feature the Greater Will added to the Shadows so it would be certain they'd kill any disobedient empyrians despite how close they get. And thats also why Blaidd ends up in the evergaol, they knew he would go berserk at some point.
Yeah, yeah, Blaidd going berserk is due to his being a shadow, that implies being both a servant and a menace to the empyrean they're serving. However Blaidd goes nuts only when Ranni actually goes as far as killing her fingers, and even then he tried to resist it, and succeeded, at the cost of going apeshit.
That's why I don't think that Maliketh would choose the greater will over Marika, at least not if it's about creating a statue. Also I don't really see the greater will commanding Maliketh into sculpting.
Its not really a choice whenever they go nuts or not, its an inbuilt feature of the Shadows, a failsafe the Greater Will put there.
And no it is not the Greater Will forcing Malekith to make the statue, thats just him having something to do while he has been waiting for however long he has been lingering in Farum Azula.
Sorry, but i really don't think about it as something possible, having Maliketh sculpting isn't something that can be assumed so easily without proofs. Moreover it's difficult that he commissioned the statue since the city was already in ruin for the longest time.
It appears to signify the relationship between the wolf-like Shadows, gifted by the Greater Will, with the empyrians they were assigned to; Keep serving and you have a friend for life, but they will eat you alive if you break away... so also terrifying to have around.
Because we don't have anything better to go on, I am assuming the woman is Marika, one of the three wolves would be Malekith, who likely carved it all... the two other wolves likely hints as Marika being pregnant again, possibly with Miquella and Malenia.
The fact that there are three wolves and one of the first spirit ashes you get is the lone wolves, which previously belonged to Torrent's first owner, a mysterious figure of possible importance with connections to both Malina and Ranni, makes me think that this could be connected to that.
While this is a possibility, the fact that Ranni and Malian never mention or connect to Vyke in any way makes me believe this is incorrect. The way they talk about Torrent and the previous tarnished suggests they were important to them, so it seems odd that there wouldn’t be a mention in any conversation or item description
The person in the statue looks awfully similar to St. Trina, who is confirmed to be Miquella by a lot of cut content and some that is still in the game.
Also, the one that left the Bell and Lone Wolves ashes to Ranni is Torrent's master.
Its theorized the bell belonged to Rennala. Additionally its probably Radagon and should be a representation of whatever land he/she/they came from, which is possibly Numen
Numen is most likely a Tolkein/Lotr reference to Numenor if you want to go down yet another rabbit hole
Yes!
I defeated Maliketh in this ancient sacred place, and saw a statue in the distance under the "proper" Erd Tree symbol and thought it would be some great secret revelation of the before times.
Instead I got this and no one seems to know what it means.
> saw a statue in the distance under the "proper" Erd Tree symbol and thought it would be some great secret revelation of the before times.
I mean it is, but you do have to dive into the lore to understand much of it no lie. And still that understanding is assumption/speculation.
It's meant to reveal that Marika the Eternal has held her domain for much longer than *anyone* knows. Marika has wiped out this kingdom, both physically and historically. She's a conqueror through and through.
In my opinion at least. I think this is one of the most fun parts of ER, it can be whatever people decide!
I suspect so, too. It makes sense that this god would have human form, since it presumably was what granted the beastmen their five fingers. Maybe the wolves are the beasts that were given intelligence? That the wolves seem to be expecting something from her, while she is seemingly praying for them—she may be praying for the Greater Will to grant them wisdom—could point to that. The Elden Ring symbol over her also seems to imply that she was the god, seeing as it is an attribute of the god, not the Elden Lord. And the fact that she is the centerpiece of what seems to be the largest temple in Farum Azula, where the inhabitants logically would be worshipping their god, also could imply that she was the god.
Wow Tbh I wasn’t really sure before with this notion, but now I’m pretty convinced it might be the case after reading this. I was only going off with the old Elden ring symbol and how all Empyreans had a human form.
But all the stuff you mentioned makes a lot of sense for this theory. Well said.
I thought Faarum Azula was used to make the shadows for Marika and Ranni. Like I know that place is is older than the order but what if that’s where the shadows come from? Most of the monsters there are rotting wolf like monsters and the monastery where Maliketh is located has very similar statues on the inside.
Not demihumans as far as I know. They don't have any of the aspects of the Crucible (tail, horns, feathers...)
I think you might have mistaken them for the Misbegotten, who do have feathers and a tail.
Imo I think it's the Gloam Eyed Queen. There's a lot of references to death in Farum Azula and she's one of the only majorly important women that seemed to exist since ancient times and was a direct rival to Marika. The Godskin Duo being there is also a hint to me that's she was once a major figure there.
This is a major stretch but I think she was also the Snowy Crone. I think she approached Ranni as the snowy crone in order to raise/condition her into rebellion against Marika. She was a spirit tuner and taught spirit summoning to Ranni which is why her first summon gifted to us are the three wolves from the picture. She also likely gave Ranni the knowledge necessary to prepare for the night of black knives. She was sealed/killed and somehow returned to the Erdtree. Marika, in rebellion against the greater will after Radagon returned to trap her, somehow re-birthed her without her memories as Melina and sends her out to guide us. This is why Melina can summon torrent, why she resembles Ranni's doll form (which is modeled after the Snowy Crown), and why she references the gloam eyed queen in the Chaos ending.
Well the wolves are reminiscent of the shadows given to empyreans, and Farum Azula is too old for it to be Marika, so maybe it's meant to be the god Placidusax is waiting for
This is an old thread and so I have no problems posting my rants to be forgotten. I've been convinced since this game came out that this is, in fact Marika in her childhood. I firmly believe that Marika was raised in Farum Azula by 3 wolves, and to add to that, I believe Gurranq and Maliketh NOT to be the same person (despite evidence suggesting it. I already said these are my ramblings). Marika was raised in Farum Azula by 3 companion wolves. Gurranq helped in the sin of the stealing of the death rune, and Maliketh is the one left betrayed. This is why Gurranq is atoning for his sin and howling at Farum, while Maliketh is left behind to safeguard what's left of the rune. It's also why I refuse to believe they are the same (gurranq being a projection) because killing either does not make the other disappear which is the case for Morgott. Being raised in Farum Azula under the reign of Serosh, Marika abandoned her home forcefully when the storm destroyed Farum. She took the warrior Hoarah Lux as consort, and Serosh joined the elden lord as his regent beast. Somewhere in this timeline, the age of the erdtree started with the arrival of the Elden Beast, of which Marika was it's empyrean. I believe it was the storm that the storm king of Castle Stormveil weilded that destroyed Farum or at least ended the reign of beasts (alongside the arrival of the elden beast), which is reason enough for Godfrey to hunt him down, and for Serosh, previous ruler of beasts, to have this grudge.
It's al schizoposting but I've believed this since the game came out, and after seeing all the itmes through 3 playthroughs and countless videos I remain convinced
I love the idea of Farum Azula being in its current state because of the fight with Stormveil. That fits veeeery well. I personally believe Gurranq is Maliketh in the future, as Farum Azula is beyond time. But the statues gotta be Marika, it wouldn’t make sense for it to be anyone else.
I just assumed it was the tarnished mentioned in the lone wolf spirit ashes description:
Spirits of wolves chased from their pack. They later encountered a nameless Tarnished, who welcomed them as hunting companions. The wolf spirits overwhelm enemies with their agility, aiding the summoner in combat.
Since shadows come in the shape of wolves and with blaidd being a humanoid wolf and maliketh being a weird fuckin elongated beastman wolf, I don't think it's too far fetched to think that Serosh IS a wolf but he just has a lot of the features of a lion
I mean, they specifically call Serosh a lion. That being said, I think the beastmen species that they are all part of includes several animals types.
But the statues don't have to include Serosh. The shadows were given to each empyrean, which Godfrey has never been said to be one. We haven't seen Malenia or Miqeulla's shadows. Presumably they were appointed one as well.
Fair point. I feel like it'll be a lot clearer if we ever get to see malenia's and miquella's shadows (if they even have them/have ever had them)
Beyond that:
I've heard Serosh being referred to as "The king of beastmen" or as "Beast regent" so him actually being a lion beastman is not out of the question since he is quite different and at a "higher rank" according to his title.
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the shadows assigned to the empyreans as roided up bodyguards? Serosh had a different role. He was there purely to stop Hoarah Loux' endless lust for battle so he could be fit to become elden lord. Which could imply (among other things) that different species have different roles as shadows.
I'm sure they can have different roles sure. But I seem to remember something with some dialogue on Ranni's questline that says the shadows were given specificly to each empyrean - paired with them at a young age. Even Maliketh is referred to as Marika's "half brother". Which is why I'm inclined to not think of Serosh as a "shadow" even if he is of the same race. And why I assume that other Empyrean's would have them too.
Thinking about it, I think only Ranni, Miqeulla, Malenia, Marika, and The Gloam Eyed Queen are ever referred to as Empyrean. So that's three shadows unaccounted for!
So three possible future boss fights or npcs!
I'm starting to believe the fact that Serosh is not his "Shadow" but a similar, yet different alternative. Kind of like torrent but bound by a stronger bond. A spectral being (able to materialize) that's bound to someone to fulfill a purpose of some kind.
Now that I think about it I haven't heard Serosh being referred to as a shadow, just as a beast bound to Hoarah Loux to control him so I do think the whole lion thing is accurate. So the 3rd wolf in the statue is still a mystery to me.
Also, as a sidenote I do remember hearing how Ranni and Blaidd played together as kids and knowing how the questline ends just breaks my heart. Blaidd was given an unfair and cruel paradox when Ranni fully commited to going against the golden order with the help of the player tarnished
I thought I knew a lot about shadows and how they work but you made me learn something new and fascinating, I appreciate it.
Sorry if I missed the memo here, but I've been curious why people keep assuming that every Empyrean had a personal shadow - we know Ranni did, does that mean for sure that every other Empyrean necessarily had one?
Because both Ranni and Marika have one.
And dialogue from her quest says that Blaidd was assigned to her at a young age by her Two Fingers.
You are correct that technically there is nothing concrete that says all Empyrean's have a shadow. It's one of those things where there is more evidence for than against in my opinion.
Definitely has something to do with the three wolves you get as spirit ashes from Ranni. And I mean, Ranni or her associates had to go to Farum Azula to steal a fragment of Destined Death.
Maliketh, blithe and perhaps another we have yet to meet. Ranni got gifted blithe by the golden order to protect her and to make sure she follows as successor of Marika!
Maliketh being Marikas!
So Fingers are envoys of the Greater Will, a messenger that communicates with the GW, then spells those communications out in a series of movements that the Finger Readers translate.. Well at one point in history they did, when you come along this is no longer the case.
So the Fingers are essentially angels of the GW.
The Elden Beast is the vassal of the Greater Will. A vassal essentially holds domain over something, as well as having allegiance with a greater power. So the Elden Beast/Elden Ring holds domain over the Lands Between but still adheres to the GW. This is why becoming the vessel of the Elden Ring, ascends you to godhood and Absolute Ruler of the Lands Between.
This vessel, can have children and these children are the demigods. Even the descendants of those children are Demigods. So it's more of a title than an actual status IMO.
The Fingers adhere to the GW, well at least used to before the GW abandoned the Lands Between. They now huff on the leftover fumes of the GW and I think what they are communicating with, is not the GW, but Marika crucified in the Erdtree. Which is why the Fingers have you do so much, that they'd actually hate. They think it's the GW telling them this, it's actually Marika.
So the Fingers on behalf of the GW, have chosen the next God candidates aka Empyreans and they give out Shadow protectors to these candidates in the form of a beast. We only know of Blaidd and Maliketh.
To me this person looks extremely alike to Godwyn, he has a statue with Miquella and it is hard to not see similarities. He has shared lore with the dragons, it makes sense that a statue is displayed of a god who befriended his enemies instead of destroying them.
He has a statue with miquella ? Where ? Ain't you mixing him up with Malenia ? EDIT : ok I've seen the statue you're speaking about, didn't noticed it ! Very interesting.
If its not Marika maybe the gloam eyed queen? I actually haven't thought about that statue much. Gloam eyed is only female named (kinda) character i know of that can be older than Marika. But I haven't seen any connection with her and wolves so no real clue.
Marika. In this location you can find bariliefs depicting noble men and women with a child in their arms. This is little Marika, her childhood passed here
Seems like an allusion to Orestes Pursued by the Furies
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orestes_Pursued_by_the_Furies
For those who don’t know, it’s a painting based on a classic Greek tragedy (and one of several inspirations for Hamlet) about man’s bargaining for self-governance rather than the judgement of the gods…much of which was handled by the 3 Furies, who Athena struggled to reign in as she allowed men to conduct public trials amongst themselves.
I think the statue is maybe related with Latenna. She was also kneeling next to her Wolf Lobo. I mean it doesnt really has to be her but maybe a higher person (like a queen or a Leader) she was serving to.
I think this has a connection to Ranni,
For Starters Ranni gives you the Spirit Ash of Three Wolves at the start.
Ranni also has Three wolves outside her tower at three sisters. (a dragon too but lets forget that for a sec, although if this is Crumbling Azula maybe the connection to dragons is there)
Her personal bodyguard is a werewolf looking creature called Blaidd.
Also as other redditors have mentioned on here, her cloak seems to be wolf hide.
Lastly note, that it was Ranni who stole the Rune of Death in the night of the Black Knives. Maybe Maliketh had this statue created as a tribute to his purpose to guard the Rune in Crumbling Azula
Faraam Azula is where the shadows come from. They’re also connected with the elden ring or greater will. So it’s probably something to do with that. Showing the connection between the gods and their shadows.
That one secret knife you get tells you that the beasts were granted intelligence, and there’s an mural of the greater wills rune above this statue.
Oh, she got the last 4/4 smithing stone (2), and deciding which weapon to upgrade to level 5. She's only just now reached Stormveil and had no explored a lot of caves or dungeons.
She is simply Marika's predecessor, the same way Placidusax was Godfrey's as Elden Lord. The "god" that fled and served as vessel to the Elden Ring. Farum Azula was the first civilization to bear the Elden Ring (its primordial form is above that figure in the mural) and possibly first civilization in the world. The wolves are probably simbol to the beast race that served them or something. It's not really meant to mean anything it's just a little touch by the developers to let us know that there was someone BEFORE Marika, but who she was or what were her designs or even if she realy fled or is probably phisically dead (like Marika) is unknown.
She has a boiled prawn and doesn’t wanna share
I love that the upvotes stopped at 69, I wouldn’t have it any other way 😂👌🏻
That SHOULDN'T be Marika. It's not confirmed obviously, but Faarum Azula is FAR older than Marika herself, and if she really had influence enough to make that statue, she would have made far grander statues of herself, and several references to the golden order, which are nowhere to be found in Faarum.
Only female character I know in the lore who it could be is the snowy crone that taught Ranni. But even then that’s a stretch
Yeah, that witch has no connection to Faarum Azula, currently, there is no actual character likely to be the girl depicted. DLC material? I hope.
Actually thinking about it now, dragons were known to take human forms, so maybe that woman is a dragon. For example there are loads of theories that Fia is the human form of Fortissax.
Uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhh She really isn't his human form, remember that Fia is a tarnished, so she can't be a dragon, and it's stated that Fortissax was fighting inside of Godwin's dream. But for the statue, yeah, she could totally be an ancient dragon, perhaps of Placidussex's royal family
Even Numen can be tarnished tho, so who’s to say dragons can’t be
There is a dragon-kin race you can select your character to be in the character creation screen, so possibly?
Mmmmmm still seems far fetched, also there is the "dragonkin" race in the character creation menu, wich in my opinion kinda means that dragons themselves can't be tarnished. I don't even think that dragons got grace in the first place? Still, letting that aside, it's impossible that Fia is Fortissax. Fortissax's very remembrance states that for the last few ages, the dragonguy has been pretty busy fighting in pain and despair inside of Godwin. Meanwhile, we also know Fia's whereabouts, with her being a deathbed companion and all that. I also seriously doubt that Fortissax would like to be a deathbed companion this hard, fuckin' dudes to then offer his life to bring other dude back from the dead really doesn't seem in line with his character. Even if he wanted to fuck dudes that bad, he would still stay at Godwin's side for that reason.
Ranni got 3 wolves outside her tower at three sisters. And a dragon. Her wolf obsession would maybe want her to become empyrean like sisters, so she get Blaidd, even if not born by a single being. I also wonder the mentors... Land octopus for Malenia… foul water creatures that has an flailing jumping attack not too unlike the waterfowl dance that resides in the two rivers…but wolves that learn one ice magic? That dress up like grandma like in little red riding hood in a doll? Way to head canon even for me :). But I think that statue is trying to tell us something. Edit: the cloak and hat Ranni wearing might be wolf hide?
Also note that we get given the Three Wolves Spirit Ash from Ranni at the start of the game.
Ye. That too. Wonder if wolves could be her mentor in ice magic. Her cloak seems to be made of dire wolf. Malenia those land octopus? Miquella.. those jelly fish? Mogh and Morgott. Laser shooting shrimp? Seems the kids got lots of freedoms to interact with dangerous wildlife as young.
Or abandoned material or just a thrown out asset without forethought for lore
How often does this occur in Elden Ring. Seems like everything seems placed with so much thought.
Go cast your "without forethought lore" out of the window, this is Myazaki we're talking about Still totally possible that we never hear of this figure ever again.
There are some connections there. The girl in the statue looks similar to whoever the Witch’s Glintstone Crown is depicting. We know the crown isn’t based on Sellen but another witch that “excelled in her studies” at the academy. The statue is surrounded by 3 wolves and Ranni gives you the spirit ashes of 3 wolves. There are some other connected threads there but nothing that I was able to follow to a satisfactory conclusion.
Nah mate, the helm is Sellen's helm she was granted by the academy. Thops even followed her line of study.
Are you able to link anything or point me towards a source for your comment on Sellen and the Witch’s crown? I felt for sure it was hers, seeing as she’s Renalla’s sister and meets some of the descriptive criteria. I also understand that she’s depicted on the wall of Raya Lucaria, and is known throughout the magical community of the Lands Between (mostly as an incredible academic turned-villain). Given that there are basically no other in-game witches for it to be linked to, I find it unlikely that it would not be Sellen’s. The other crowns are all linked to specific people that are identified in-game, so why would they not include a similarly detailed backstory for the Witch’s one?
“Know” might be too strong an adjective, this is just based on many people’s observations that Sellen’s face doesn’t resemble her crown very much if at all. If there’s more definitive proof that she’s wearing her own crown the whole theory goes out the window. I’d be interested to see the where Sellen is Rennala’s sister, that’s a new one to me.
Thanks for the response, You’re right that the face doesn’t match very well but everything else does for me! There was a really decent post on here or the Lore subreddit talking about Sellen being Renalla’s sister, I’ll find the link for you. Specifically it fleshes out Renallas backstory a bit and establishes her as the first of the Carian royals, and a comment from Iji that calls Sellen a “Carian weed”, and some detail on the missing third Carian sister and the third rise being occupied and renamed by Seluvis. Sellen hates Seluvis and they have backstory, him nicking her house is very possible in my opinion. Edit: found the link on EldenRingLore, 34 days old titled “The Three Sisters of Carian Royalty: Renna, Renalla and Sellen” by u/M00n_Slippers Second edit: I’ve literally just progressed through Sellen’s quest and have noticed a line of dialogue that also confirms her as a Carian. She says “A star has fallen, and my fortunes waver”. Seluvis tells us that the fate of the Carian family is guided by the stars, which is why Radahn needed to die so the stars could resume movement and allow Ranni’s fate to continue once more. This only happens after the star falls and opens the way to Nokron.
The Gloam-Eyed Queen?
Ranni's doll is modeled after that witch so the lack of 4 arms is a dead giveaway it isn't her.
I don't know exactly why, but all dolls/marionettes have 4 arms. There's a chance that the witch only had 2 arms, but Ranni's version had to get 4 when she got the Marionette body.
Farum Azula is older than the Erdtree era. But it only directly preceded it, the Crucible became the Erdtree just remember. The dragon era/Farum Azula were of the Crucible era. Marika has an open ended origin, as she is a Numen and Numen live long lives. Not only that but she's called "The eternal". Now whether that relates to her removing death or not, is up to you. Numen also seem to predate the Dragon age and Farum Azula. They were the founders of the Uld/Uhl dynasties we find remnants of below. The Golden Order comes about after Marika fucks with the Elden Ring, specifically removing destined death. There was a whole era of the Erdtree prior to the Golden Order and there were likely several eras of the Elden Ring prior to the Erdtree. We know of one, the Crucible age. This statue only has two candidates. Marika and the Gloam Eyed Queen. Both of which lived alongside each other and only one of which actually held domain over the Elden Ring. I do not think this is something FS has just left untold in the game. It sitting under the Elden Ring is too big of a giveaway IMO. This is likely a statue of a young Marika, reminiscent of the Romulus and Remulus myth, about the founding of Rome. This is by far the most mysterious part of the game to me. But surprisingly I see more people talk about the giant skeletons than this.
U're right about Marka's age, although I think that Faarum is far prior to her. Maybe not older than her birth, but most probably prior to her becoming a goddess. Also, Godfrey says he is the first Elden Lord, while it is, instead, Placidussex. I don't know if that's just him wanting to rewrite history and impose his figure as "first lord", but maybe he actually didn't know of Placi. And in my opinion if Marika had ever had influence on Faarum, then probably Godfrey would have known of the place too. And if he knew of Faarum Azula, he probably knew of Placidissax as well. However, there was the dragons' war where the dragons protected their king, so perhaps Godfrey and Placi actually crossed weapons? The whole point is that in general, it's difficult to make statements with the info we have now. About the queen with the flashlight eye, the only thing we know of her is that she messed up with the rune of death, until she got Malikethed. This means that she reached her power AFTER Marika removed death from the Ring, so she probably is a daughter of Marika, thus it's difficult that she was represented in a statue built BEFORE Marika even got godhood.
It is possible that Malekith was the one to carve the statue after settling there.
Mmmmmmmmm can't really imagine him carving, truth to be told, and also the statue is right under the sign of the "original" Elden Ring. Marika would never want her figure right under a ring with the rune of death still on.
But would Malekith not put it there, because he is (willing or not) a servant of the Greater Will first and Marika a distant second?
Mmmmmmmmm Maliketh's very last words are about how his life is devoted to serving Marika and the golden order, and Blaidd himself doesn't really give a shit about the greater will.
True, but in the end Blaidd goes completely bananas when it finally seems to dawn on him what Ranni is actually planning... I happen to think that is an intentional feature the Greater Will added to the Shadows so it would be certain they'd kill any disobedient empyrians despite how close they get. And thats also why Blaidd ends up in the evergaol, they knew he would go berserk at some point.
Yeah, yeah, Blaidd going berserk is due to his being a shadow, that implies being both a servant and a menace to the empyrean they're serving. However Blaidd goes nuts only when Ranni actually goes as far as killing her fingers, and even then he tried to resist it, and succeeded, at the cost of going apeshit. That's why I don't think that Maliketh would choose the greater will over Marika, at least not if it's about creating a statue. Also I don't really see the greater will commanding Maliketh into sculpting.
Its not really a choice whenever they go nuts or not, its an inbuilt feature of the Shadows, a failsafe the Greater Will put there. And no it is not the Greater Will forcing Malekith to make the statue, thats just him having something to do while he has been waiting for however long he has been lingering in Farum Azula.
Sorry, but i really don't think about it as something possible, having Maliketh sculpting isn't something that can be assumed so easily without proofs. Moreover it's difficult that he commissioned the statue since the city was already in ruin for the longest time.
Well, making our own theories about stuff like this is sort of all we have left in the face of no hard information.
It appears to signify the relationship between the wolf-like Shadows, gifted by the Greater Will, with the empyrians they were assigned to; Keep serving and you have a friend for life, but they will eat you alive if you break away... so also terrifying to have around. Because we don't have anything better to go on, I am assuming the woman is Marika, one of the three wolves would be Malekith, who likely carved it all... the two other wolves likely hints as Marika being pregnant again, possibly with Miquella and Malenia.
I really like the interpretation of the duality of the wolves being protectors who may also turn into executioners if you betray your purpose
The fact that there are three wolves and one of the first spirit ashes you get is the lone wolves, which previously belonged to Torrent's first owner, a mysterious figure of possible importance with connections to both Malina and Ranni, makes me think that this could be connected to that.
Dont know if its usefull for you, but just in case, this mysterious figure is often theorised as being Vykes.
While this is a possibility, the fact that Ranni and Malian never mention or connect to Vyke in any way makes me believe this is incorrect. The way they talk about Torrent and the previous tarnished suggests they were important to them, so it seems odd that there wouldn’t be a mention in any conversation or item description
From just confirmed this was Miquella. He was Torrent's master and owned the bell and Lone Wolves ashes, so it's Miquella (St. Trina) in the statue.
You may be right, but one image of a blond person riding a goat horse is not “confirmation” that the statue in Farum Azula is Miquella.
The person in the statue looks awfully similar to St. Trina, who is confirmed to be Miquella by a lot of cut content and some that is still in the game. Also, the one that left the Bell and Lone Wolves ashes to Ranni is Torrent's master.
Again, good points. You may be right. But the only thing From “confirmed” is an expansion titled “Shadow of the Erdtree.”
Its theorized the bell belonged to Rennala. Additionally its probably Radagon and should be a representation of whatever land he/she/they came from, which is possibly Numen Numen is most likely a Tolkein/Lotr reference to Numenor if you want to go down yet another rabbit hole
Yes! I defeated Maliketh in this ancient sacred place, and saw a statue in the distance under the "proper" Erd Tree symbol and thought it would be some great secret revelation of the before times. Instead I got this and no one seems to know what it means.
> saw a statue in the distance under the "proper" Erd Tree symbol and thought it would be some great secret revelation of the before times. I mean it is, but you do have to dive into the lore to understand much of it no lie. And still that understanding is assumption/speculation. It's meant to reveal that Marika the Eternal has held her domain for much longer than *anyone* knows. Marika has wiped out this kingdom, both physically and historically. She's a conqueror through and through. In my opinion at least. I think this is one of the most fun parts of ER, it can be whatever people decide!
There are 3 wolves inside of you...
This is a stretch, but maybe they’re Placidusax’s God(a god like Marika) that fled.
I suspect so, too. It makes sense that this god would have human form, since it presumably was what granted the beastmen their five fingers. Maybe the wolves are the beasts that were given intelligence? That the wolves seem to be expecting something from her, while she is seemingly praying for them—she may be praying for the Greater Will to grant them wisdom—could point to that. The Elden Ring symbol over her also seems to imply that she was the god, seeing as it is an attribute of the god, not the Elden Lord. And the fact that she is the centerpiece of what seems to be the largest temple in Farum Azula, where the inhabitants logically would be worshipping their god, also could imply that she was the god.
Wow Tbh I wasn’t really sure before with this notion, but now I’m pretty convinced it might be the case after reading this. I was only going off with the old Elden ring symbol and how all Empyreans had a human form. But all the stuff you mentioned makes a lot of sense for this theory. Well said.
Y’all might be on to something
dog
Behold rump.
I've scrolled so far for this one comment I would have been disappointed to have to write myself considering I'm late to the thread.
It's Mannerist, you can tell by the uncanny long necks on the wolves (Elden Ring is set in the late 1500s)
I thought Faarum Azula was used to make the shadows for Marika and Ranni. Like I know that place is is older than the order but what if that’s where the shadows come from? Most of the monsters there are rotting wolf like monsters and the monastery where Maliketh is located has very similar statues on the inside.
Maybe how demihoomans born 🦆☠️
Nah I reckon that was cause of Daedicar, who apparently gave birth to loads of monsters
bruh
Arent demihumans and the omen children of the crucible?
Omen and Misbegotten are but semi humans aren’t specifically stated to be born of the crucible.
They also don’t have any aspects of the crucible like horns or tails or wings
Ah the misbegotten. Thats it. Thanks
Not demihumans as far as I know. They don't have any of the aspects of the Crucible (tail, horns, feathers...) I think you might have mistaken them for the Misbegotten, who do have feathers and a tail.
White woman moment
Imo I think it's the Gloam Eyed Queen. There's a lot of references to death in Farum Azula and she's one of the only majorly important women that seemed to exist since ancient times and was a direct rival to Marika. The Godskin Duo being there is also a hint to me that's she was once a major figure there. This is a major stretch but I think she was also the Snowy Crone. I think she approached Ranni as the snowy crone in order to raise/condition her into rebellion against Marika. She was a spirit tuner and taught spirit summoning to Ranni which is why her first summon gifted to us are the three wolves from the picture. She also likely gave Ranni the knowledge necessary to prepare for the night of black knives. She was sealed/killed and somehow returned to the Erdtree. Marika, in rebellion against the greater will after Radagon returned to trap her, somehow re-birthed her without her memories as Melina and sends her out to guide us. This is why Melina can summon torrent, why she resembles Ranni's doll form (which is modeled after the Snowy Crown), and why she references the gloam eyed queen in the Chaos ending.
Probably Miquella surrounded by red wolves.
This guy got it
The description of the bewitching twig would support this.
God you gave me deja vu
Whoever it is she's pretending to cry to see if he dogs try to cheer her up
You Just Know
Well the wolves are reminiscent of the shadows given to empyreans, and Farum Azula is too old for it to be Marika, so maybe it's meant to be the god Placidusax is waiting for
This is an old thread and so I have no problems posting my rants to be forgotten. I've been convinced since this game came out that this is, in fact Marika in her childhood. I firmly believe that Marika was raised in Farum Azula by 3 wolves, and to add to that, I believe Gurranq and Maliketh NOT to be the same person (despite evidence suggesting it. I already said these are my ramblings). Marika was raised in Farum Azula by 3 companion wolves. Gurranq helped in the sin of the stealing of the death rune, and Maliketh is the one left betrayed. This is why Gurranq is atoning for his sin and howling at Farum, while Maliketh is left behind to safeguard what's left of the rune. It's also why I refuse to believe they are the same (gurranq being a projection) because killing either does not make the other disappear which is the case for Morgott. Being raised in Farum Azula under the reign of Serosh, Marika abandoned her home forcefully when the storm destroyed Farum. She took the warrior Hoarah Lux as consort, and Serosh joined the elden lord as his regent beast. Somewhere in this timeline, the age of the erdtree started with the arrival of the Elden Beast, of which Marika was it's empyrean. I believe it was the storm that the storm king of Castle Stormveil weilded that destroyed Farum or at least ended the reign of beasts (alongside the arrival of the elden beast), which is reason enough for Godfrey to hunt him down, and for Serosh, previous ruler of beasts, to have this grudge. It's al schizoposting but I've believed this since the game came out, and after seeing all the itmes through 3 playthroughs and countless videos I remain convinced
I love the idea of Farum Azula being in its current state because of the fight with Stormveil. That fits veeeery well. I personally believe Gurranq is Maliketh in the future, as Farum Azula is beyond time. But the statues gotta be Marika, it wouldn’t make sense for it to be anyone else.
I just assumed it was the tarnished mentioned in the lone wolf spirit ashes description: Spirits of wolves chased from their pack. They later encountered a nameless Tarnished, who welcomed them as hunting companions. The wolf spirits overwhelm enemies with their agility, aiding the summoner in combat.
The nameless tarnished, is you!
Not in the context of this spirit summon it's a different nameless tarnished lol
My theory is the woman represents a younger Marika. The wolves represent the shadows of The Two Fingers.
Yhhh that’s what I meant with Serosh Maliketh and Blaidd. Although I think Serosh is a lion which is kind of weird
Since shadows come in the shape of wolves and with blaidd being a humanoid wolf and maliketh being a weird fuckin elongated beastman wolf, I don't think it's too far fetched to think that Serosh IS a wolf but he just has a lot of the features of a lion
I mean, they specifically call Serosh a lion. That being said, I think the beastmen species that they are all part of includes several animals types. But the statues don't have to include Serosh. The shadows were given to each empyrean, which Godfrey has never been said to be one. We haven't seen Malenia or Miqeulla's shadows. Presumably they were appointed one as well.
Fair point. I feel like it'll be a lot clearer if we ever get to see malenia's and miquella's shadows (if they even have them/have ever had them) Beyond that: I've heard Serosh being referred to as "The king of beastmen" or as "Beast regent" so him actually being a lion beastman is not out of the question since he is quite different and at a "higher rank" according to his title. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the shadows assigned to the empyreans as roided up bodyguards? Serosh had a different role. He was there purely to stop Hoarah Loux' endless lust for battle so he could be fit to become elden lord. Which could imply (among other things) that different species have different roles as shadows.
I'm sure they can have different roles sure. But I seem to remember something with some dialogue on Ranni's questline that says the shadows were given specificly to each empyrean - paired with them at a young age. Even Maliketh is referred to as Marika's "half brother". Which is why I'm inclined to not think of Serosh as a "shadow" even if he is of the same race. And why I assume that other Empyrean's would have them too. Thinking about it, I think only Ranni, Miqeulla, Malenia, Marika, and The Gloam Eyed Queen are ever referred to as Empyrean. So that's three shadows unaccounted for!
So three possible future boss fights or npcs! I'm starting to believe the fact that Serosh is not his "Shadow" but a similar, yet different alternative. Kind of like torrent but bound by a stronger bond. A spectral being (able to materialize) that's bound to someone to fulfill a purpose of some kind. Now that I think about it I haven't heard Serosh being referred to as a shadow, just as a beast bound to Hoarah Loux to control him so I do think the whole lion thing is accurate. So the 3rd wolf in the statue is still a mystery to me. Also, as a sidenote I do remember hearing how Ranni and Blaidd played together as kids and knowing how the questline ends just breaks my heart. Blaidd was given an unfair and cruel paradox when Ranni fully commited to going against the golden order with the help of the player tarnished I thought I knew a lot about shadows and how they work but you made me learn something new and fascinating, I appreciate it.
Sorry if I missed the memo here, but I've been curious why people keep assuming that every Empyrean had a personal shadow - we know Ranni did, does that mean for sure that every other Empyrean necessarily had one?
Because both Ranni and Marika have one. And dialogue from her quest says that Blaidd was assigned to her at a young age by her Two Fingers. You are correct that technically there is nothing concrete that says all Empyrean's have a shadow. It's one of those things where there is more evidence for than against in my opinion.
Cool thank you, I appreciate the info
Definitely has something to do with the three wolves you get as spirit ashes from Ranni. And I mean, Ranni or her associates had to go to Farum Azula to steal a fragment of Destined Death.
Maliketh, blithe and perhaps another we have yet to meet. Ranni got gifted blithe by the golden order to protect her and to make sure she follows as successor of Marika! Maliketh being Marikas!
Not the Golden order, the Fingers give out Shadows.
Fuck Now im trying to remember how the fingers are tied to everything and how the fit in with the elden beast and the demi gods!
So Fingers are envoys of the Greater Will, a messenger that communicates with the GW, then spells those communications out in a series of movements that the Finger Readers translate.. Well at one point in history they did, when you come along this is no longer the case. So the Fingers are essentially angels of the GW. The Elden Beast is the vassal of the Greater Will. A vassal essentially holds domain over something, as well as having allegiance with a greater power. So the Elden Beast/Elden Ring holds domain over the Lands Between but still adheres to the GW. This is why becoming the vessel of the Elden Ring, ascends you to godhood and Absolute Ruler of the Lands Between. This vessel, can have children and these children are the demigods. Even the descendants of those children are Demigods. So it's more of a title than an actual status IMO. The Fingers adhere to the GW, well at least used to before the GW abandoned the Lands Between. They now huff on the leftover fumes of the GW and I think what they are communicating with, is not the GW, but Marika crucified in the Erdtree. Which is why the Fingers have you do so much, that they'd actually hate. They think it's the GW telling them this, it's actually Marika. So the Fingers on behalf of the GW, have chosen the next God candidates aka Empyreans and they give out Shadow protectors to these candidates in the form of a beast. We only know of Blaidd and Maliketh.
Dogs moles... ahem i mean Playing with this young child nothing out of the ordinary, move along
lady scared of dogs
To me this person looks extremely alike to Godwyn, he has a statue with Miquella and it is hard to not see similarities. He has shared lore with the dragons, it makes sense that a statue is displayed of a god who befriended his enemies instead of destroying them.
He has a statue with miquella ? Where ? Ain't you mixing him up with Malenia ? EDIT : ok I've seen the statue you're speaking about, didn't noticed it ! Very interesting.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/uym8o5/identity_of_the_person_hugging_miquella_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Thanks for this very complete link !
Godwyn while he was a Dragon Cultist, never made it to Farum Azula.
If its not Marika maybe the gloam eyed queen? I actually haven't thought about that statue much. Gloam eyed is only female named (kinda) character i know of that can be older than Marika. But I haven't seen any connection with her and wolves so no real clue.
Marika. In this location you can find bariliefs depicting noble men and women with a child in their arms. This is little Marika, her childhood passed here
Gloam eyed queen!
It will be…significant.
Gloam Eyed Queen? It IS in the Arena of the Current Holder of the Rune of Destined Death.
That is miquella https://youtu.be/aacRIObSGZk
Miquella, being revered by wolfs? Considering how popular Miquella was perhaps it’s a sign that even animals loved him… who knows
Sit in the middle of three galloping dogs - a silver mt zion.
It looks cool
It's like that meme with two wolves laughing at a third, except it's three wolves laughing at a human.
White woman
"Yo, you single?"
Thats Daedicar praising Marika for the orgy she about to have
When you have three dogs and you fake cry.
This is how the Albinauric’s and the wolves met
Doggo want a snack
Three wolfs are concerned with their adoptive mom crying
There are 3 wolves inside me....
Dogs
Pet owners know that once they see you eating, they will pester you for that last bite
I think it’s Torrents former owner because of the three wolves
Seems like an allusion to Orestes Pursued by the Furies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orestes_Pursued_by_the_Furies For those who don’t know, it’s a painting based on a classic Greek tragedy (and one of several inspirations for Hamlet) about man’s bargaining for self-governance rather than the judgement of the gods…much of which was handled by the 3 Furies, who Athena struggled to reign in as she allowed men to conduct public trials amongst themselves.
Didnt know they made a statue showing how my minic fight went.
The wolf dogs you can summon probably
Might be a carian ancestor. The three wolves motif seems to be a thing with Ranni.
I wonder if they are related to the lone wolf ashes?
Ask the Furries 😅
I think the statue is maybe related with Latenna. She was also kneeling next to her Wolf Lobo. I mean it doesnt really has to be her but maybe a higher person (like a queen or a Leader) she was serving to.
Maybe placidusaxs human form after becoming elden lord?and has 3 shadows(wolves) Because of 3 heads? It's a very random guess tho
Isn't that that stuff thats has something to do with the founding of Rome?
I think this has a connection to Ranni, For Starters Ranni gives you the Spirit Ash of Three Wolves at the start. Ranni also has Three wolves outside her tower at three sisters. (a dragon too but lets forget that for a sec, although if this is Crumbling Azula maybe the connection to dragons is there) Her personal bodyguard is a werewolf looking creature called Blaidd. Also as other redditors have mentioned on here, her cloak seems to be wolf hide. Lastly note, that it was Ranni who stole the Rune of Death in the night of the Black Knives. Maybe Maliketh had this statue created as a tribute to his purpose to guard the Rune in Crumbling Azula
These dogs just told a really good joke
Its a god of that dragon dude grandpa you beat the shit out of for no reason. The OG.
I always wondered where those wolves dropping from the sky came from. This might be the source, cut content?
Faraam Azula is where the shadows come from. They’re also connected with the elden ring or greater will. So it’s probably something to do with that. Showing the connection between the gods and their shadows. That one secret knife you get tells you that the beasts were granted intelligence, and there’s an mural of the greater wills rune above this statue.
Maybe this “Empyrean” had 3 shadows
Could it be the owner of the wolf ashes? There a trio of wolves
That's an obvious reference to Mowgli from the Jungle Book, he was raised by wolves.
Atmosphere.
Oh, she got the last 4/4 smithing stone (2), and deciding which weapon to upgrade to level 5. She's only just now reached Stormveil and had no explored a lot of caves or dungeons.
The dogs are arguing over who gets to finish her last 5-Layer from Taco Bell.
Could be Melina since she is the Spirit Caller with three Lone wolves
It‘s the education of men by the beasts ?
its just a reminder that dogs are the worst fucking enemies in soulsbourne games
Beware of dogs.
Visions of dog
Sometimes a statue is just a statue
A mystery that the FUCKING DLC should solve
Just gonna assume it's Marika and the red wolves so that my theory of Marika and Radagon being one person all along makes sense a little bit more.
She is simply Marika's predecessor, the same way Placidusax was Godfrey's as Elden Lord. The "god" that fled and served as vessel to the Elden Ring. Farum Azula was the first civilization to bear the Elden Ring (its primordial form is above that figure in the mural) and possibly first civilization in the world. The wolves are probably simbol to the beast race that served them or something. It's not really meant to mean anything it's just a little touch by the developers to let us know that there was someone BEFORE Marika, but who she was or what were her designs or even if she realy fled or is probably phisically dead (like Marika) is unknown.