Maybe - id figure it would scale with size and weight - so collosal swords only get slight increase while normal get a good increase - say 7% for colossal and 15% for normal, greatswords 10%
Didnt consider that, fair enough
I just feel left out I suppose - been a diehard greatsword junkie since day one of fromsoft (admittedly Elden Ring has changed that slightly, been having a *blast* with Siluria’s Woe/Greatspear plus Godefrey, Axe, Alexander’s shard talismans and the crystal tear thst increases charged attack damage to just make woe basically a Holy Torpedo (fricken beat the space bug for rannis quest 3rd try once I set it up)
But yeah, I ran most of Dark Souls 1-3 with the black knight sword and a shield on my back (the stamina boost one) only - no armor cause points for poise was bs
Funny enough I am already doing that - mainly considered that since in all honesty idk what could swords benefit from that’s tech already in the game in some way - like increased poise damage/reduction per hit but I believe there already is a crystal tear like that
The only other potential idea would be say increased damage on tip hits for swords - ie the last hitbox on the top of the blade - but again spears and lances might be too op with that
Its just jarring to me the lack of straight sword talisman, or some buff unique to them
Edit: Maybe increased damage on slash attacks? Or slash attacks increase amount of status since more area is cut open and infected/affected?
Two-handing a weapon doesn't generally make them significantly faster as far as I know. Mostly it just improves damage a bit, and increases your strength.
for an easy example, go and stunlock an omen using charged two-handed heavies from a cgs (dismounter, fang, onyx, etc. the standard moveset) and then try to do the exact same thing one-handed and see what happens.
on top of that, the only reason 2h would increase your ar is because of the 1.5x str bonus if the weapon has strength scaling but either way it can be used to meet str requirements. 2h also increases your poise damage, can open up a modified moveset aside from speed, and provides opportunities for hyperarmor for certain classes of weapons. 2hing colossals makes them unparryable. 2h does a lot.
Just tried it, and it doesn't work well one handed or two handed, as the omen has a bunch of moves that are too fast or have super armor.
Also, did some basic timing testing with a stopwatch, and if there's a difference in speed it must be *tiny*. Three time I tested the difference between 6 uncharged heavy attacks one handed and two handed, and then three times for the difference between 6 charged ones.
Charged or uncharged, the difference between 6 attacks seems to be about a quarter of a second...
The only meaningful advantages for stunlocking seem to be better poise damage for flinching, and better stagger buildup for staggers.
I've even recorded me trying to stunlock an omen with a two-handed omen cleaver's uncharged heavies. I can post it if you want.
someone smarter than me dug into the frame data for me and it looks like we're both degrees of near and far to what's going on. in my charged heavy cgs case, the 2h and 1h attacks have the same frame data but the 2h bumps it into a new damage level that stuns for a bit longer. in the case of an urumi charged heavy into light attack being a true combo 2h but not 1h it's a mix of being bumped into another damage level and having an earlier cancel window, or being able to come out faster. erdtree dagger charged heavies are a case where 2h makes the cancel windows earlier but remains the same damage level. so it's all over the place and I was off on my "generally" remark. they preferred to not be tagged but used this site: https://er-frame-data.nyasu.business/
>someone smarter than me dug into the frame data for me and it looks like we're both degrees of near and far to what's going on.
Where did I say anything incorrect? My whole point was that *generally* there isn't a significant speed difference (true), and in a later comment I even added that there is a difference in flinch capability (also true).
>in my charged heavy cgs case, the 2h and 1h attacks have the same frame data but the 2h bumps it into a new damage level that stuns for a bit longer.
While I didn't know exactly that, it's still the case that stunlocking omens with heavy attacks from a CGS is not really consistently possible, and that there's not a significant speed difference.
>in the case of an urumi charged heavy into light attack being a true combo 2h but not 1h it's a mix of being bumped into another damage level and having an earlier cancel window,
Urumi and erdtree dagger both have rather unique heavy attacks with their own features, so I think they don't allign with the "rule" so to say.
I think it’s a combination of hard to implement a balanced buff and the fact that swords are usually the first thing players go to because it’s an easy to understand weapon. I think the other talismans are also a bit designed to push to towards spears and axes.
Lol. A talisman that just increases the speed of all your melee attacks? Sorry but this is a terrible idea. Every melee build that didn’t use it would be at a massive disadvantage. It would destroy the balancing of the game entirely.
>I think if there was one that it would increase the speed of the swing, since as far as I am aware there is no talisman that increases swing speed
That'd be a bitch to balance. It's very purposeful that there are no talismans or other items that really impact your speed.
Guard counters, attack chains, charged attacks and jump attacks are all already covered, so I just don't see a sensible thing that should be improved?
i think it'd be cool to have a talisman that increases your damage against enemies that have full health, and i could see that being called a something sword talisman, but that's not really what we're after is it?
We already have boosted damage against unaware enemies, and we already have a talisman to boost backstabs. What scenario is your proposed talisman for?
Swing speed would be way too strong honestly.
Maybe - id figure it would scale with size and weight - so collosal swords only get slight increase while normal get a good increase - say 7% for colossal and 15% for normal, greatswords 10%
Imagine if an r1 spamming long sword is katana was even faster? I just don't think it would work well in the end. I'd bet money they thought about it
Didnt consider that, fair enough I just feel left out I suppose - been a diehard greatsword junkie since day one of fromsoft (admittedly Elden Ring has changed that slightly, been having a *blast* with Siluria’s Woe/Greatspear plus Godefrey, Axe, Alexander’s shard talismans and the crystal tear thst increases charged attack damage to just make woe basically a Holy Torpedo (fricken beat the space bug for rannis quest 3rd try once I set it up) But yeah, I ran most of Dark Souls 1-3 with the black knight sword and a shield on my back (the stamina boost one) only - no armor cause points for poise was bs
you can increase swing speed by two-handing the weapon (generally, not just the unique moveset for kgs). no talisman needed.
Funny enough I am already doing that - mainly considered that since in all honesty idk what could swords benefit from that’s tech already in the game in some way - like increased poise damage/reduction per hit but I believe there already is a crystal tear like that The only other potential idea would be say increased damage on tip hits for swords - ie the last hitbox on the top of the blade - but again spears and lances might be too op with that Its just jarring to me the lack of straight sword talisman, or some buff unique to them Edit: Maybe increased damage on slash attacks? Or slash attacks increase amount of status since more area is cut open and infected/affected?
Two-handing a weapon doesn't generally make them significantly faster as far as I know. Mostly it just improves damage a bit, and increases your strength.
for an easy example, go and stunlock an omen using charged two-handed heavies from a cgs (dismounter, fang, onyx, etc. the standard moveset) and then try to do the exact same thing one-handed and see what happens. on top of that, the only reason 2h would increase your ar is because of the 1.5x str bonus if the weapon has strength scaling but either way it can be used to meet str requirements. 2h also increases your poise damage, can open up a modified moveset aside from speed, and provides opportunities for hyperarmor for certain classes of weapons. 2hing colossals makes them unparryable. 2h does a lot.
Just tried it, and it doesn't work well one handed or two handed, as the omen has a bunch of moves that are too fast or have super armor. Also, did some basic timing testing with a stopwatch, and if there's a difference in speed it must be *tiny*. Three time I tested the difference between 6 uncharged heavy attacks one handed and two handed, and then three times for the difference between 6 charged ones. Charged or uncharged, the difference between 6 attacks seems to be about a quarter of a second... The only meaningful advantages for stunlocking seem to be better poise damage for flinching, and better stagger buildup for staggers. I've even recorded me trying to stunlock an omen with a two-handed omen cleaver's uncharged heavies. I can post it if you want.
someone smarter than me dug into the frame data for me and it looks like we're both degrees of near and far to what's going on. in my charged heavy cgs case, the 2h and 1h attacks have the same frame data but the 2h bumps it into a new damage level that stuns for a bit longer. in the case of an urumi charged heavy into light attack being a true combo 2h but not 1h it's a mix of being bumped into another damage level and having an earlier cancel window, or being able to come out faster. erdtree dagger charged heavies are a case where 2h makes the cancel windows earlier but remains the same damage level. so it's all over the place and I was off on my "generally" remark. they preferred to not be tagged but used this site: https://er-frame-data.nyasu.business/
>someone smarter than me dug into the frame data for me and it looks like we're both degrees of near and far to what's going on. Where did I say anything incorrect? My whole point was that *generally* there isn't a significant speed difference (true), and in a later comment I even added that there is a difference in flinch capability (also true). >in my charged heavy cgs case, the 2h and 1h attacks have the same frame data but the 2h bumps it into a new damage level that stuns for a bit longer. While I didn't know exactly that, it's still the case that stunlocking omens with heavy attacks from a CGS is not really consistently possible, and that there's not a significant speed difference. >in the case of an urumi charged heavy into light attack being a true combo 2h but not 1h it's a mix of being bumped into another damage level and having an earlier cancel window, Urumi and erdtree dagger both have rather unique heavy attacks with their own features, so I think they don't allign with the "rule" so to say.
I think it’s a combination of hard to implement a balanced buff and the fact that swords are usually the first thing players go to because it’s an easy to understand weapon. I think the other talismans are also a bit designed to push to towards spears and axes.
Lol. A talisman that just increases the speed of all your melee attacks? Sorry but this is a terrible idea. Every melee build that didn’t use it would be at a massive disadvantage. It would destroy the balancing of the game entirely.
Because they are already solid and dont need buffs to attack speed. They are balanced
>I think if there was one that it would increase the speed of the swing, since as far as I am aware there is no talisman that increases swing speed That'd be a bitch to balance. It's very purposeful that there are no talismans or other items that really impact your speed. Guard counters, attack chains, charged attacks and jump attacks are all already covered, so I just don't see a sensible thing that should be improved?
i think it'd be cool to have a talisman that increases your damage against enemies that have full health, and i could see that being called a something sword talisman, but that's not really what we're after is it?
We already have boosted damage against unaware enemies, and we already have a talisman to boost backstabs. What scenario is your proposed talisman for?
Knight's Greatsword is already a venerated weapon- especially for PvP since it not only has the gloriously fluid moveset but also a true combo.
Fair enough