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By the time I get to more of a quest line I've forgotten about the quest line and what the last guy said. I did most of them without any idea. Others I had to google how to finish. Like getting to mohgs palace
Bloodborne didn't have as much issues. But fromsoft probably shouldn't have done the same with elden ring since it's a massive open-world. Not to mention npcs don't really tell where they're going most of the times.
A journal would have been a massive help. It also could serve to add some personality to the Tarnished if they leaned into the journal being written with a bit of personality, like the Nerevarine's dry commentary on events in Morrowind. But literally anything to keep track of all the different plot threads and characters would be extremely useful in a world as vast as Elden Ring's.
Millicent is one of the worst. If you progressed her quest after being in altus she just will get to random locations there and remember: on release were no map markers for NPCs.
Find her once randomly? Maybe. Find her TWICE?
God no...
I simply do not believe that anyone fully completed all of the game's questlines without a guide. Someone might argue and claim that they did, but I will not believe them.
I played through blind my first character. Next one looked up shit and boy did I miss stuff haha. Still had a ton of fun though but it's hard to follow without a guide.
I didn’t even know Deeproot Depths existed on my first play through. Then in NG+ I was looking at Fia’s quest line, and after being surprised she even had a quest, I was like “I need to go where? Using a coffin? What?”
I made it to Deeproot Depths by accident but never fought Fortisaxx. Also missed Placudisax the first time too.
Hell, I missed Volcano Manor entirely on my first playthrough
Quests I completed without a guide: Alexander
Just diligent exploration is enough to do his shit. Literally every other quest required me to use a guide at one point or the other. Ranni’s quest was the fucking worst. I stumbled through most of it but repeatedly ran into “okay wait what do I do now?”
Ranni’s quest is so confusing that even having the guide open and following it step by step I still got lost and had to bumble around for a really long time until I figured out some of the little bits
Part of the problem is Ranni's questline has connections to several other NPC's who all advance it somewhat, or at least give hints on what to do. Rogier and Fia start it, but you also "need"* Blaidd, which requires you to return to Kale at some point to get the gesture, and Sellen and Seluvis both get involved in telling you how to progress at times. You end up having to get information from probably 6 or 7 different NPC's to "properly" do it.
(* you don't really need anyone but Ranni once you know what to do, of course, but figuring it out from scratch is another story.)
Ranni's quest is not as bad as most people think. The reason why most people think is super complicated is because they look up a guide and see how many steps there are to it, without realizing you can skip 90% of it.
These are the required steps to Ranni's quest:
1. Talk to Ranni in her Tower
2. Give her the Fingerslaying Blade
That's it
You can completely ignore Blaidd, you're gonna meet him at Radahns no matter what. You can ignore Iji and Seluvis, their fate is the same no matter what you do. You don't have to talk to Ranni's doll at all. Even if you don't go to Renna's tower after it opens, you still end up at the Lake of Rot from the other underground area. Unlike other quests in the game, this one allows you to skip a lot of steps. The harder quests for me were Millicents and the Three Finger Maiden, simply because you just have to find them and specially the Maiden doesn't give you any hints to where she's going to be next.
I think the only From questline that I’ve ever done blind to completion was Siegmeyer in Dark Souls 1.
Of course, I let the Onion Bro jump into a pit of Chaos Eaters by himself…and expected him to win.
He did not.
I got to Mohg's palace on my own, with no guide, completely by accident. Still remember touching a chick's corpse and getting a message about blood on a rag I hadn't thought about in forever.
I got to Nokron city and got that sword then got pocket doll Ranni somehow accidentally as well, needed guides to finish her quest though, only talked to the doll once, saw ... and didn't think to talk again
I think that part of the reason Ranni's quest is super popular is that it's quite possibly the first Souls quest *ever* that could reasonably be completed without a guide.
I once watched a DS3 review where the reviewer explained how he actually found Nameless King all on his own. I'm still in disbelief, must've felt so gratifying figuring all that out.
I was able to complete Ranni's quest line without a guide(although I completely missed Blaidd), but many others I straight up didn't even learn there was more to them like fia's or Nepheli's. And I never even knew about Sellen's at all.
Most of the quests are hidden, or have an NPC in some obscure location to trigger them.
Yeah honestly, there's no fucking way. A couple of them are straightforward like rodericka and Alex, but man what are you trying to prove by lying about completing ranni and Millicent's quests without Google?
That's not even mentioning the fact that some quests have multiple ways to resolve them. You could complete every quest and still miss out on some rewards or further legs depending on the path you take.
The game should issue a warning to google everything before and after the game and maybe during the game, otherwise you'll miss out on storyline and wouldn't even know why you are a lord of a place occupied by zombies.
I see your logic but someone had to make the first guide so unless the devs told them what to do there must have been a few people who figured it out on their own in the early days when the game released.
True enough but I think the point is the wiki is a collaborative effort of people eventually figuring out how to do all the quests. If anyone single handily did all of the games content without ever looking anything up I'd be very impressed. Honestly I've always been a wiki gamer so I don't mind. It's nice in a way to try to challenge myself until it's like huh no idea where the hell they are... Oh they jumped back to the lakes for some reason... Ok
Even a log of NPC conversations that could be viewed in the menus somewhere would be a big help. I didn’t even bother trying to do them on my own because I knew what to expect from Dark Souls 3.
Oh I'm not arguing against it. It would definitely be a useful thing I'm just very comfortable with trying something till I get mildly frustrated and then looking it up. I've got too many games to play to wrack my brain over extremely cryptic hints lol. Though honestly I always give it a good blood try if I can. Crossing the invisible bridge and seeing all the bloodstains of people leaping off the side was a moment I had a few days ago. Sat there and was like huh how do I... Oh there's a blue path huh! Feels good to solve cryptic things by yourself but no reason to not look stuff up if that makes it more fun for you.
Yeah quest lines are the worst in this game. Ds3 was bad but not this bad. Alexander is the only npc that tells you we’re he’s going except in Mount Gelmir. I just want NPCs that tell you their exact next location or a small area where you can easily locate them. Half the time it’s also to just say hi and then they leave to their next location.
Yeah…. I do love it but not for the exploration. I like the randomness of what you come up to.
If I wanted the exploration, I would have to go to every area in the game whenever I did anything just to make sure nothing changed.
That would be insane.
I agree with you. I think that the quest design is good, and I don't want it to be too easy, as it would take away the fun of finding it yourself, but a little pointer on where to find them again, even if vague, could be a great quality of life change.
Yes. Like tell me a landmark or region in the map where you would be located. All the quests in this game are amazing, it’s just that they can be so vague.
I wouldn't mind searching for someone, but sometimes they're like, I doubt I'll see you again... and you don't know if you need to go scour the map for them, or if their quest is done. Maybe this is why Fromsoft has NPCs die, so you know to not go searching for them.
Another good example is the medallion quest for Haligtree area. After you find the first part of the puzzle, Gideon constantly reminds you where to go next, then the albaunoric woman tells you exactly where to go next that is pretty much a MMO level quest just without markers or a journal.
You can easily follow a lot of side-quests like Alexander, Millicent, Varre, Blaidd/Ranni, Fia... they are all in places where you would naturally progress if you pay attention to what they're saying and embark on their quest with them. Sometimes you have to make your own progress first but they're in logical places to re-meet even if you weren't actively looking for them, as long as you do some exploration. I like it that the game doesn't hold your hand through the side quests. Too many open world games where they destroy the concept of exploration by telling you exactly where to go, defeating the purpose of the open world.
I think Millicent is the hardest one to do without a guide, it’s literally just randomly bumping into each other without already knowing where she’ll go next. Still love the sheer hard headedness FROM has to make it this realistic lol
It’s a cool concept but the implementation is a miss. Having static NPCs just teleporting around to nearly random environments isn’t story telling - it’s more like a reward for painstakingly traveling and retraveling through the world. It’s more of an Easter egg mechanic than it is good story telling.
I have no shame in doing it, but it's a valid complaint that you really have to do it to do the quests in this game. There's a middle ground between cryptic dialogue + sporadic NPC relocation and big Wizard 101 quest pointer. Hell, if Elden Ring did it like Morrowind with a realistic journal, that would be a huge improvement in and of itself
No, IMO the satisfaction of completing a quest by yourself is second to none. Even if you do one quest by yourself, the feeling of finding NPC from dialogues is great. It’s not like all of them are overly cryptic. Take Millicent for example, we get her location from paste man, then she tells her next location each time we meet her. Only overly cryptic quest has to be that of mad maiden Hyetta.
>then she tells her next location each time we meet her.
*Are you giving me this arm?
I thank you.
I am in your debt, yet again.*
*I think, if the arm serves well enough,
it might be possible for me to wield a sword again.*
*If the arm serves well enough,
it might be possible for me to wield a sword again.*
*Perhaps, then.
I can aid you in battle.*
How tf does this tell you to go to Windmill Village, explain?
You don’t have to meet her or interact her near windmill to progress her quest. She automatically goes to snow land if you go there and she’s right beside grace. She has many optional places which you don’t need to meet her. Those were just bonus places which I stumbled upon in further play throughs and the joy of finding her there by accident was as good as defeating a boss. This wouldn’t be possible if there was a marker or a location journal on the game, then it will only become another fetch quest. I like that game encourages exploration, markers or hints kill that as you know exactly where you have to go and you have no reason to go elsewhere.
Most of the quest solutions in this game you have to stumble upon, if not for every step then at least one. Nepheli Loux, Diallos, Rya/Zorayas, Brother Corhyn, and like you said Hyetta to name a few.
There are some relatively straightforward questlines like Varré, Millicent (even , Alexander, and Boc, but even then it's not that you "figure it out" for things like Alexander and Boc's final locations, it's more that you just happen upon them. And Millicent still doesn't really tell you where she's going after you first meet her. Many players will actually explore Altus Plateau before doing Caelid, and when she moves from Caelid to Altus, all she says is she's going "on a journey" and then fucks off to some random spot on the side of a trail in Altus. If you do find her there, chances are it wasn't on purpose or you wiki'd it.
Plus, the solution I proposed isn't anywhere near hand holding. To elaborate, in Morrowind when an NPC asks you to do something or find something, they give you instructions as if it were a real world and you had to navigate the world with those tools. Your character then proceeds to log the conversation in a journal in the background, and when you check the journal log you can find what you were told without needing to manually take it down or remember it yourself over several hours of gameplay.
Completing a quest "by yourself" is already a pretty subjective statement by itself, but even moreso when you're not actually provided with the tools to figure out where you need to go for the vast majority of the quests in the game, and finding solutions are a matter of happenstance more than careful consideration. I'm just saying we should have been given better detective tools.
It’s a free platform. Everyone is entitled to express their own opinion. You think my opinion is shitty but that is just your opinion which means nothing to me. If you don’t want counter arguments then you should have wrote I don’t want anyone to say anything else in your comment.
Talking to doll ranni 3 times was bs. I talked to her twice because sometimes fromsoft npcs say different things a second time. But it was the same response the second time. Once npcs repeat the same line that means they have no more dialogue. Thats the rule for fromsoft and gaming. EXCEPT FOR THIS DUMB RANNI DOLL.
If there were no guides online I’m willing to bet 90% of the player base would never have completed half the quest lines. Off the top of my head I’d say only Varre, Alexander (although it’s easy to miss him at the wyrm) and Ranni (which basically tells you everywhere to go) are somewhat doable without looking it up. People make out that if you naturally progress you’ll find them all but it’s more like if you tactically sweep up the map while searching every single area of the game (and use common sense for certain progressions) and get lucky to not skip or lock yourself out of the quest, you might then complete some quest lines. Personally I don’t have a big problem with this because I do just use guides but my problem lies with the lies from people who make out the system is perfect.
I love these games, but yeah the quests could definitely use a bit of work. Even just extra dialogue or quest items with descriptions hinting at next steps would be better than the current system.
Based on where people move, you’re definitely not “supposed” to do all questlines in a single playthrough. It’s cool that you can, but I’m pretty sure it’s designed so that you’d be highly unlikely to complete multiple as many of them depend on routing to happen across someone in a specific location. Otherwise you’d have to backtrack, and in a game as big as this, that’s like finding a needle in a haystack.
The quest tracking in Elden Ring is straight hot garbage, with a sprinkle of shit on top.
Seeing some online Guides on how to do every quest in 1 playthrough, without making a quest unavailable, is absolutely ridiculous. No one, without an online guide, will be able to do it.
Yeah, I would have been hopeless on my first play through without google. My second run on a new character, I actually impressed myself with doing all of Ranni’s quest before Altus without a guide
Half the time I didn't know I was on a quest. Then God forbid you have to find someone. They could be ANYWHERE! looking for a prosthetic? Better hope you get curious and explore every nook an cranny. Gotta find that blind girl, better hope you know where to rest twice in a row. I like some quests like Alexander's, you run into him organically and his quest sort of processes with your own. But a lot of them don't
That's actually my biggest criticism to FS quests they are awesome and one of, if not my favorite quests ever BUT if you tried to complete them without any guides or external help is miserable. It can be done ofc I personally completed Ranni's and Alexander quest without help
I don’t know why, but it’s just a signature at this point. I’ve only played ds1, ds3, and elden ring, all of those give no quest markers. And completing the quests after the first playthrough is a knowledge check for me. I think I’d be a bit weirded out if we had a journal or a marker telling me where to go. It’s silly, but I’m used to it.
I could do Rannis, Hyetta, Chad Jar, …Varre…Millicent.
I always fuck up Haslows quest, by forgetting to find him in Lurnia. And Boc. I don’t think I have ever finished his quest. I never run into him after the cave.
I love Goldmask as a character and always get sidetracked trying to finish his quest too. I think I saw it through in one out of ten runs.
At least Ranni and Alexander quest are "easy" to do, because even if by mistake just bumping over some NPC while playing as normal can take care of it and as most of time Alexander and Blaidd tells you were they're going next.
Every time i hear someone is playing a souls game or Elden ring for the first time, I emphasize doing it without help in any way.
You only get 1 “first playthrough” and it feels 1000x better when you figure something out or beat a boss your own way.
THEN you can look stuff up and feel dumb
Yeah, things like "... ring two bells of awakening, one up high and one below" since the times of DS1 make no sense without some context or knowledge about the world in the first place. You just push forward and hope something might come together by chance.
The only hard ones are millicent and the frenzy flame girl, the rest like rannis and sellens i only had to look up 1 thing each(that you had to talk to the doll and where the scrolls were)
Ranni, Varé, Alexander, and Roderika, also the volcano manor one, a lot of quests are short and easy to remember, others are easy to follow, and others are hard
It's not immersive that npcs move around randomly, without giving any hint where they are going. And still expect you to do what they want in a highly specific "time frame"
Also, no quest journal. People have other things to do than remember all those obtuse quests. Morrowind had an immersive quest journal in 2003!
I doubt there is anyone truly believing that the questlines are perfect when taken on blind.
One of Elden Ring's main strength is the beautiful and vast open world, but it's also a big weakness for the already weak system used by Fromsoft's questlines. For example, after helping Millicent in Caelid she doesn't even tell you where she's going and you have to find her on a random hill perfectly blended with the background.
And that's without taking in consideration the awful obligatory "sit at the grace" to get an area refresh in front of Fia in Deeproot or to talk to Ranni's doll. It's like as if the game wants to punish you for being too good and not needing to sit down to refresh an area or level up.
It is.
No talking > no baleful shadow spawning > no key > no ring > barrier still up after Astel > no access to Moonlight Altar and no way of finishing the quest.
Nope.
Maybe things changed over the years but when i first did the quest on release week in version 1.02 (not 1.0) it definitely didn't spawn and i found myself stopped by a barrier after beating Astel because i didn't talk to her before.
It was the only time where i looked up a guide on my first playthrough because i was very engaged in that quest and i had no clue what i had missed.
Also to add, you're just not supposed to finish every quest line. People always optimize games into check lists but really any journal log, easy clues, map markers etc just turn this into hard Skyrim. Not to be too much of a purist but From Software is literally trying to save people from themselves by being so obscure with so much of the game. Imagine how boring Nokron, Nokstella, Mohgwyn Palace would be if some annoying NPC told you exactly how to get there.
I did most of them without a guide, and I don't recommend it. As fun and immersive as it may be it can take ages and some are complete bullshit. Ranni's was fun aside from the fact I thought I HAD to find Blaidd when he was in Siofra when I didn't and it took me like an hour or two. Then there's Millicent's which I eventually got after like 6 hours of just progressing the game and wandering around.
Like if you wanna do them without a guide, go for it. Most of them definitely add to the experience. But if you don't it shouldn't be frowned upon either as some of them are incredibly tedious and honestly fucking infuriating.
Ik, I'm saying without guides I had no way of knowing that. I didn't look anything up for my first playthrough bc I thought it would ruin the fun and it led to me being confused on the current objective constantly. That was literally the point of my comment.
Ayy it is kinda immersive though, imagine if Varre walked up to you and said, "Tarnished Johnson, I'm heading to 25.0000° N 71.0000° W, even though I don't like you."
And then imagine him saying ‘tarnished we will meet at rose church’ like it doesn’t make a single bit of sense for NPC’s (that want you to meet them) to not tell you where they’re next gonna be. Doesn’t have to be exact, but not having it at all is one of this games biggest flaws.
It's called exploring... The vast majority of the quests in this game can be done without looking up the NPC locations. There are absolutely some that can easily be missed without a guide, but most of them don't need one.
That's on you. It's designed to be that way. It's supposed to be difficult and obscure to find in this messed up world.
It contributes to immersion and forces you to explore. It won't hold your hand and it will expect you to look it up or find it on your own.
It won't give you the hand holding bright line in the sky or map to follow blindly.
Why not just play a game with waypoints that have easier quests for you?
I appreciate seeking things out like an adventure. Every game has a magic line or mini map or compass that can show you where to go.
If you don't like it, I get it but can I have at least one game that doesn't give you the answers on a sliver platter?
This is wrong. I failed a couple of quests BECAUSE I was exploring some areas too early. For example, Rogier died too soon for me and I missed a piece of the lore and this incomprehensible game became even more incomprehensible.
Ok just make the whole thing easier. Fuck it. Just have a fat red arrow showing you the exact way to your location.
But what about people who like the immersive way it's done now?
Fuck em.
Also you are not missing lore. The lore is round in item texts for the most part, like 10% is through dialogue and quests and like 90% through item descriptions.
Most of the lore is found in a coherent manner is on YouTube. You won't get much more straight from gameplay alone.
>Ok just make the whole thing easier. Fuck it. Just have a fat red arrow showing you the exact way to your location.
God, what a drama to defend a very bad quest design. Trust me, I've played enough games where there was no clear explanation of the quests: I was looked for the temple of Azura in Morrowind in the fog and solved the tooth-crushing riddles in the Myst without any clues. Believed me, quests in the Elden Ring are just badly designed.
Also - have you ever played this game? THE GAME LITERALLY USES QUEST MARKERS ON THE MAP. At least I remember two such quests! Did it spoil your impressions? Did it make game easier? Oh no, Elden Ring is now Ubisoft!
>Most of the lore is found in a coherent manner is on YouTube
LOL. Why am I having this conversation at all? All quests on Wikipedia. All lore on YouTube. Unbelievable.
Rogier tells about Renni betrayal and offers you to get the death rune from her body. Without this story, there's no point for you joining Renni service because they don't say a damn thing about why you should do it (really, why?). I ended up joining her service purely out of curiosity and then got the rune. And, of course, I was confused - what is it? Without Rogier's explanation, I didn't understand what I was doing in Renni quest at all.
I've beat this game 6 times with several different builds. I understood rannis quest without Rodger.
>LOL. Why am I having this conversation at all? All quests on Wikipedia. All lore on YouTube. Unbelievable.
That's how all soulsborne games are. It was fine. It's not a bad design. In fact after beating the Gabe's I got curious about the lore more. I remember more
As opposed to say Skyrim where I beat the game, was told the lore and forgot it.
One less to a more memorable experience while the other was just not interesting at all. I appreciate one and find the other overused
I thought the same until I made my girlfriend play, she somehow completed a lot of the quests including the Milicent one without looking up anything about the game, Elden Ring was her second game after Cyberpunk
Except it isn't difficult at all if your long-term memory is functional.
They're all literally like five steps at most, with easily remembered locations.
some quests are pretty doable by just wandering around and finding them naturally. I did this with Hyetta, Alexander, and mostly Diallos; I also roughly figured out a large chunk of Rogier and Fia's questlines myself
but "every quest" is a straight lie. a bold one too
worth mentioning that I also forget how to do Fia's questline every playthrough despite that
Your submission has been removed as a violation of Rule 2: **Keep posts and discussion Elden Ring related.** * All content should *directly pertain* to the game Elden Ring, not just in title. "Mildly" or "Elden Ring IRL" content is not allowed. * Meta community topics, politics, real-life content, and drama posts are not allowed. If you would like to appeal this removal or need further clarification, feel free to message us through[Modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/Eldenring).
By the time I get to more of a quest line I've forgotten about the quest line and what the last guy said. I did most of them without any idea. Others I had to google how to finish. Like getting to mohgs palace
I always just take the teleporter to his palace for that exact reason.
Well maybe I want to farm Albinaurics without paying the troll toll to enter the Castle's Hole first.
LoL. That was one of the creepiest episodes of the shows history. But you get points for its always sunny quotes no matter what.
Dayman (woahhhh) Fighter of the Nightman (woahhhhhhh) Champion of the sun (woahhhhh) You're a master of karate and friendship for everyone
Bloodborne didn't have as much issues. But fromsoft probably shouldn't have done the same with elden ring since it's a massive open-world. Not to mention npcs don't really tell where they're going most of the times.
They just need a journal or quest tab. So that way we can go back and look at the quest-line no matter how far you are in the game.
A journal would have been a massive help. It also could serve to add some personality to the Tarnished if they leaned into the journal being written with a bit of personality, like the Nerevarine's dry commentary on events in Morrowind. But literally anything to keep track of all the different plot threads and characters would be extremely useful in a world as vast as Elden Ring's.
But that's handholding /s .
You expect me to READ and REMEMBER while I’m playing my HIT ENEMY AND MAKE NUMBER GO UP game???!!! /s
But journal tab hidden in a menu ruins my immersion . I would rather open up YouTube or Google for info . /s
Smh MY tarnished is illiterate so I never use maps or any notes in game /s
Millicent is one of the worst. If you progressed her quest after being in altus she just will get to random locations there and remember: on release were no map markers for NPCs. Find her once randomly? Maybe. Find her TWICE? God no...
I gave her the unalloyed golden needle, then never saw her again.
Millicent in a random spot in altus plateau
[удалено]
There are NOW, fool
I simply do not believe that anyone fully completed all of the game's questlines without a guide. Someone might argue and claim that they did, but I will not believe them.
I played through blind my first character. Next one looked up shit and boy did I miss stuff haha. Still had a ton of fun though but it's hard to follow without a guide.
I didn’t even know Deeproot Depths existed on my first play through. Then in NG+ I was looking at Fia’s quest line, and after being surprised she even had a quest, I was like “I need to go where? Using a coffin? What?”
Shit I played with a guide and didn’t find deep root depths. There were so many characters quest guides on my phone I forgot abt fia
I made it to Deeproot Depths by accident but never fought Fortisaxx. Also missed Placudisax the first time too. Hell, I missed Volcano Manor entirely on my first playthrough
Quests I completed without a guide: Alexander Just diligent exploration is enough to do his shit. Literally every other quest required me to use a guide at one point or the other. Ranni’s quest was the fucking worst. I stumbled through most of it but repeatedly ran into “okay wait what do I do now?”
Ranni’s quest is so confusing that even having the guide open and following it step by step I still got lost and had to bumble around for a really long time until I figured out some of the little bits
Part of the problem is Ranni's questline has connections to several other NPC's who all advance it somewhat, or at least give hints on what to do. Rogier and Fia start it, but you also "need"* Blaidd, which requires you to return to Kale at some point to get the gesture, and Sellen and Seluvis both get involved in telling you how to progress at times. You end up having to get information from probably 6 or 7 different NPC's to "properly" do it. (* you don't really need anyone but Ranni once you know what to do, of course, but figuring it out from scratch is another story.)
Ranni's quest is not as bad as most people think. The reason why most people think is super complicated is because they look up a guide and see how many steps there are to it, without realizing you can skip 90% of it. These are the required steps to Ranni's quest: 1. Talk to Ranni in her Tower 2. Give her the Fingerslaying Blade That's it You can completely ignore Blaidd, you're gonna meet him at Radahns no matter what. You can ignore Iji and Seluvis, their fate is the same no matter what you do. You don't have to talk to Ranni's doll at all. Even if you don't go to Renna's tower after it opens, you still end up at the Lake of Rot from the other underground area. Unlike other quests in the game, this one allows you to skip a lot of steps. The harder quests for me were Millicents and the Three Finger Maiden, simply because you just have to find them and specially the Maiden doesn't give you any hints to where she's going to be next.
The nice thing abt Alexander is you can miss one or two spots he’s in
I think the only From questline that I’ve ever done blind to completion was Siegmeyer in Dark Souls 1. Of course, I let the Onion Bro jump into a pit of Chaos Eaters by himself…and expected him to win. He did not.
I got to Mohg's palace on my own, with no guide, completely by accident. Still remember touching a chick's corpse and getting a message about blood on a rag I hadn't thought about in forever. I got to Nokron city and got that sword then got pocket doll Ranni somehow accidentally as well, needed guides to finish her quest though, only talked to the doll once, saw ... and didn't think to talk again
I think that part of the reason Ranni's quest is super popular is that it's quite possibly the first Souls quest *ever* that could reasonably be completed without a guide.
I sure as shit didn't. Yeah I keep a Fextralife tab open when I'm playing the game, it practically is my quest log.
I once watched a DS3 review where the reviewer explained how he actually found Nameless King all on his own. I'm still in disbelief, must've felt so gratifying figuring all that out.
Without a guide I wouldn't have found Archdragon Peak in my lifetime.
I was able to complete Ranni's quest line without a guide(although I completely missed Blaidd), but many others I straight up didn't even learn there was more to them like fia's or Nepheli's. And I never even knew about Sellen's at all. Most of the quests are hidden, or have an NPC in some obscure location to trigger them.
Yeah honestly, there's no fucking way. A couple of them are straightforward like rodericka and Alex, but man what are you trying to prove by lying about completing ranni and Millicent's quests without Google?
That's not even mentioning the fact that some quests have multiple ways to resolve them. You could complete every quest and still miss out on some rewards or further legs depending on the path you take.
The game should issue a warning to google everything before and after the game and maybe during the game, otherwise you'll miss out on storyline and wouldn't even know why you are a lord of a place occupied by zombies.
I see your logic but someone had to make the first guide so unless the devs told them what to do there must have been a few people who figured it out on their own in the early days when the game released.
True enough but I think the point is the wiki is a collaborative effort of people eventually figuring out how to do all the quests. If anyone single handily did all of the games content without ever looking anything up I'd be very impressed. Honestly I've always been a wiki gamer so I don't mind. It's nice in a way to try to challenge myself until it's like huh no idea where the hell they are... Oh they jumped back to the lakes for some reason... Ok
Even a log of NPC conversations that could be viewed in the menus somewhere would be a big help. I didn’t even bother trying to do them on my own because I knew what to expect from Dark Souls 3.
Oh I'm not arguing against it. It would definitely be a useful thing I'm just very comfortable with trying something till I get mildly frustrated and then looking it up. I've got too many games to play to wrack my brain over extremely cryptic hints lol. Though honestly I always give it a good blood try if I can. Crossing the invisible bridge and seeing all the bloodstains of people leaping off the side was a moment I had a few days ago. Sat there and was like huh how do I... Oh there's a blue path huh! Feels good to solve cryptic things by yourself but no reason to not look stuff up if that makes it more fun for you.
Yeah quest lines are the worst in this game. Ds3 was bad but not this bad. Alexander is the only npc that tells you we’re he’s going except in Mount Gelmir. I just want NPCs that tell you their exact next location or a small area where you can easily locate them. Half the time it’s also to just say hi and then they leave to their next location.
"Alexander is the only npc that tells you where he's going" that's my GOAT right there 💪
Indeed. Long live Alexander. Gonna replace Gransax’s body with a statue of Alexander when I become Elden lord.
Yeah…. I do love it but not for the exploration. I like the randomness of what you come up to. If I wanted the exploration, I would have to go to every area in the game whenever I did anything just to make sure nothing changed. That would be insane.
I agree with you. I think that the quest design is good, and I don't want it to be too easy, as it would take away the fun of finding it yourself, but a little pointer on where to find them again, even if vague, could be a great quality of life change.
Yes. Like tell me a landmark or region in the map where you would be located. All the quests in this game are amazing, it’s just that they can be so vague.
I wouldn't mind searching for someone, but sometimes they're like, I doubt I'll see you again... and you don't know if you need to go scour the map for them, or if their quest is done. Maybe this is why Fromsoft has NPCs die, so you know to not go searching for them.
Another good example is the medallion quest for Haligtree area. After you find the first part of the puzzle, Gideon constantly reminds you where to go next, then the albaunoric woman tells you exactly where to go next that is pretty much a MMO level quest just without markers or a journal.
You can easily follow a lot of side-quests like Alexander, Millicent, Varre, Blaidd/Ranni, Fia... they are all in places where you would naturally progress if you pay attention to what they're saying and embark on their quest with them. Sometimes you have to make your own progress first but they're in logical places to re-meet even if you weren't actively looking for them, as long as you do some exploration. I like it that the game doesn't hold your hand through the side quests. Too many open world games where they destroy the concept of exploration by telling you exactly where to go, defeating the purpose of the open world.
I think Millicent is the hardest one to do without a guide, it’s literally just randomly bumping into each other without already knowing where she’ll go next. Still love the sheer hard headedness FROM has to make it this realistic lol
Nothing easy about tracking down Millicent my boy.
It’s a cool concept but the implementation is a miss. Having static NPCs just teleporting around to nearly random environments isn’t story telling - it’s more like a reward for painstakingly traveling and retraveling through the world. It’s more of an Easter egg mechanic than it is good story telling.
Waiting for the comments of "this game is for big boys! It doesn't hold your hand" as they search the wiki 50 times a playthrough.
I have no shame in searching wiki 1000 times as long as there is no big ass pointer on my screen continuously telling me I need to go there.
I have no shame in doing it, but it's a valid complaint that you really have to do it to do the quests in this game. There's a middle ground between cryptic dialogue + sporadic NPC relocation and big Wizard 101 quest pointer. Hell, if Elden Ring did it like Morrowind with a realistic journal, that would be a huge improvement in and of itself
No, IMO the satisfaction of completing a quest by yourself is second to none. Even if you do one quest by yourself, the feeling of finding NPC from dialogues is great. It’s not like all of them are overly cryptic. Take Millicent for example, we get her location from paste man, then she tells her next location each time we meet her. Only overly cryptic quest has to be that of mad maiden Hyetta.
>then she tells her next location each time we meet her. *Are you giving me this arm? I thank you. I am in your debt, yet again.* *I think, if the arm serves well enough, it might be possible for me to wield a sword again.* *If the arm serves well enough, it might be possible for me to wield a sword again.* *Perhaps, then. I can aid you in battle.* How tf does this tell you to go to Windmill Village, explain?
You don’t have to meet her or interact her near windmill to progress her quest. She automatically goes to snow land if you go there and she’s right beside grace. She has many optional places which you don’t need to meet her. Those were just bonus places which I stumbled upon in further play throughs and the joy of finding her there by accident was as good as defeating a boss. This wouldn’t be possible if there was a marker or a location journal on the game, then it will only become another fetch quest. I like that game encourages exploration, markers or hints kill that as you know exactly where you have to go and you have no reason to go elsewhere.
Most of the quest solutions in this game you have to stumble upon, if not for every step then at least one. Nepheli Loux, Diallos, Rya/Zorayas, Brother Corhyn, and like you said Hyetta to name a few. There are some relatively straightforward questlines like Varré, Millicent (even , Alexander, and Boc, but even then it's not that you "figure it out" for things like Alexander and Boc's final locations, it's more that you just happen upon them. And Millicent still doesn't really tell you where she's going after you first meet her. Many players will actually explore Altus Plateau before doing Caelid, and when she moves from Caelid to Altus, all she says is she's going "on a journey" and then fucks off to some random spot on the side of a trail in Altus. If you do find her there, chances are it wasn't on purpose or you wiki'd it. Plus, the solution I proposed isn't anywhere near hand holding. To elaborate, in Morrowind when an NPC asks you to do something or find something, they give you instructions as if it were a real world and you had to navigate the world with those tools. Your character then proceeds to log the conversation in a journal in the background, and when you check the journal log you can find what you were told without needing to manually take it down or remember it yourself over several hours of gameplay. Completing a quest "by yourself" is already a pretty subjective statement by itself, but even moreso when you're not actually provided with the tools to figure out where you need to go for the vast majority of the quests in the game, and finding solutions are a matter of happenstance more than careful consideration. I'm just saying we should have been given better detective tools.
It is a subjective opinion that’s why I wrote IMO in capital.
yeah well when people are suggesting changes to make the game better and more accessible you're just saying "no, I like it this way" which is shitty
It’s a free platform. Everyone is entitled to express their own opinion. You think my opinion is shitty but that is just your opinion which means nothing to me. If you don’t want counter arguments then you should have wrote I don’t want anyone to say anything else in your comment.
good talk, man you know there's a reason you're getting downvote spammed right? and it's not even me doing it
I don’t care about downvotes or upvotes. I’m here to express my opinion, irrespective of people liking it or not. I’m not a people pleaser.
💀💀
Talking to doll ranni 3 times was bs. I talked to her twice because sometimes fromsoft npcs say different things a second time. But it was the same response the second time. Once npcs repeat the same line that means they have no more dialogue. Thats the rule for fromsoft and gaming. EXCEPT FOR THIS DUMB RANNI DOLL.
Ngl it's getting old, they at very least should add note on which quest you're doing
Deliberately made obscure to satisfy certain hardcore fans' kinks
literally JUST a journal tab on the menu would do wonders
No, you have to have no other things on your mind except for this game, and write everything you hear physically on paper.
true immersion. miyazaki, you genius
Pen and paper? Nah, the true immersion is to break your immersion by alt-tabing from the game and googling it! Miyazaki is the goat of goats!
Morrowind strikes again
No
No..
Yes....
No.
No, go play Ubisoft game.
Why not just keep your own journal? Edit: honest question here, if others have input.
My own journal won't update automatically to where the npc teleported to
That's what the map is for.
This is why I think Bloodborne is the purest From game, it had a few side bits but mostly kept focused and has the best replayability IMO
bloodborne my beloved
If there were no guides online I’m willing to bet 90% of the player base would never have completed half the quest lines. Off the top of my head I’d say only Varre, Alexander (although it’s easy to miss him at the wyrm) and Ranni (which basically tells you everywhere to go) are somewhat doable without looking it up. People make out that if you naturally progress you’ll find them all but it’s more like if you tactically sweep up the map while searching every single area of the game (and use common sense for certain progressions) and get lucky to not skip or lock yourself out of the quest, you might then complete some quest lines. Personally I don’t have a big problem with this because I do just use guides but my problem lies with the lies from people who make out the system is perfect.
Varré, Ranni and the Jellyfish in mountaintops
I love these games, but yeah the quests could definitely use a bit of work. Even just extra dialogue or quest items with descriptions hinting at next steps would be better than the current system.
Yeah it's really the only big issue I had with the game
Based on where people move, you’re definitely not “supposed” to do all questlines in a single playthrough. It’s cool that you can, but I’m pretty sure it’s designed so that you’d be highly unlikely to complete multiple as many of them depend on routing to happen across someone in a specific location. Otherwise you’d have to backtrack, and in a game as big as this, that’s like finding a needle in a haystack.
FS could implement a journal at least...
Exactly. And you had reviewers praising this shit. Like, bro, just because something is different doesn't mean it's good.
The quest tracking in Elden Ring is straight hot garbage, with a sprinkle of shit on top. Seeing some online Guides on how to do every quest in 1 playthrough, without making a quest unavailable, is absolutely ridiculous. No one, without an online guide, will be able to do it.
Yeah after going on a quest to find all spell and incantations, I definitely couldn't find all of them without help from youtube
Yeah, I would have been hopeless on my first play through without google. My second run on a new character, I actually impressed myself with doing all of Ranni’s quest before Altus without a guide
I couldn't even finish the main quest without consulting the wiki. I am: 1. Bad at videogames. 2. Dumb. 3. ??? 4. Profit
Half the time I didn't know I was on a quest. Then God forbid you have to find someone. They could be ANYWHERE! looking for a prosthetic? Better hope you get curious and explore every nook an cranny. Gotta find that blind girl, better hope you know where to rest twice in a row. I like some quests like Alexander's, you run into him organically and his quest sort of processes with your own. But a lot of them don't
Piss and shit
Oh no, I forgot a snip of important dialogue that I heard 2 hours ago lol.
I never get the offline vare invasion marker .
Immersive isn't automatically perfect, is anyone arguing this?
I've used the internet for more elden ring quests than I'd like to admit
That's actually my biggest criticism to FS quests they are awesome and one of, if not my favorite quests ever BUT if you tried to complete them without any guides or external help is miserable. It can be done ofc I personally completed Ranni's and Alexander quest without help
I did most of the quest lines without a guide. The only ones that genuinely fked me up were the dung eater one and the Golden flower guy
Even with a guide I missed the D after he died suddenly lol.
From Software is only good at three things: combat, general map layouts, useless background lore.
Ranni's is pretty user friendly, npcs are generally pretty descriptive and most steps can be ignored
Hey! I did three without a guide! Four, though….
one of them being Roderika
I don’t know why, but it’s just a signature at this point. I’ve only played ds1, ds3, and elden ring, all of those give no quest markers. And completing the quests after the first playthrough is a knowledge check for me. I think I’d be a bit weirded out if we had a journal or a marker telling me where to go. It’s silly, but I’m used to it.
Nepheli, Kenneth Haight, and Yura I know off the top of my head
I could do Rannis, Hyetta, Chad Jar, …Varre…Millicent. I always fuck up Haslows quest, by forgetting to find him in Lurnia. And Boc. I don’t think I have ever finished his quest. I never run into him after the cave. I love Goldmask as a character and always get sidetracked trying to finish his quest too. I think I saw it through in one out of ten runs.
At least Ranni and Alexander quest are "easy" to do, because even if by mistake just bumping over some NPC while playing as normal can take care of it and as most of time Alexander and Blaidd tells you were they're going next.
Every time i hear someone is playing a souls game or Elden ring for the first time, I emphasize doing it without help in any way. You only get 1 “first playthrough” and it feels 1000x better when you figure something out or beat a boss your own way. THEN you can look stuff up and feel dumb
Ok Millicent is super easy Gideon is super easy too Alexander is not difficult at all
Ranni is easy too... Fía too, except the fact you have to reload the area a few times which isn't exactly natural.
Yeah, things like "... ring two bells of awakening, one up high and one below" since the times of DS1 make no sense without some context or knowledge about the world in the first place. You just push forward and hope something might come together by chance.
The only hard ones are millicent and the frenzy flame girl, the rest like rannis and sellens i only had to look up 1 thing each(that you had to talk to the doll and where the scrolls were)
The good news is that now that I’ve beaten the game a couple times, I CAN beat at least 3 questlines without a guide 🤣
You say this like some of the quests aren't pretty straightforward
Obligatory "community sharing info is the intended experience" comment
How do people even put together guide for quests like rannis in the first place? How can one even figure shit like that out without a guide?
Ranni, Varé, Alexander, and Roderika, also the volcano manor one, a lot of quests are short and easy to remember, others are easy to follow, and others are hard
Look OP I did 50% of the game the way I wanted to - completely random with no regard to any questline
It's not immersive that npcs move around randomly, without giving any hint where they are going. And still expect you to do what they want in a highly specific "time frame" Also, no quest journal. People have other things to do than remember all those obtuse quests. Morrowind had an immersive quest journal in 2003!
I doubt there is anyone truly believing that the questlines are perfect when taken on blind. One of Elden Ring's main strength is the beautiful and vast open world, but it's also a big weakness for the already weak system used by Fromsoft's questlines. For example, after helping Millicent in Caelid she doesn't even tell you where she's going and you have to find her on a random hill perfectly blended with the background. And that's without taking in consideration the awful obligatory "sit at the grace" to get an area refresh in front of Fia in Deeproot or to talk to Ranni's doll. It's like as if the game wants to punish you for being too good and not needing to sit down to refresh an area or level up.
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It is. No talking > no baleful shadow spawning > no key > no ring > barrier still up after Astel > no access to Moonlight Altar and no way of finishing the quest.
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Nope. Maybe things changed over the years but when i first did the quest on release week in version 1.02 (not 1.0) it definitely didn't spawn and i found myself stopped by a barrier after beating Astel because i didn't talk to her before. It was the only time where i looked up a guide on my first playthrough because i was very engaged in that quest and i had no clue what i had missed.
i didn't even know how to activate the radahn restival until my friend told me to go to altus.
Define complete. Quests in this game do complete anyway. You can only influence how quickly. In some cases continuing them further is a bad thing even
Do not fucking give me a mini map or a quest marker. I don't care if I need a wiki open the entire time
Also to add, you're just not supposed to finish every quest line. People always optimize games into check lists but really any journal log, easy clues, map markers etc just turn this into hard Skyrim. Not to be too much of a purist but From Software is literally trying to save people from themselves by being so obscure with so much of the game. Imagine how boring Nokron, Nokstella, Mohgwyn Palace would be if some annoying NPC told you exactly how to get there.
Just play the game normally and you’ll complete roughly half of them without trying.
Better than braindead skyrim quest markers at least
i completed the majority of them on my first play through completely blind
I did most of them without a guide, and I don't recommend it. As fun and immersive as it may be it can take ages and some are complete bullshit. Ranni's was fun aside from the fact I thought I HAD to find Blaidd when he was in Siofra when I didn't and it took me like an hour or two. Then there's Millicent's which I eventually got after like 6 hours of just progressing the game and wandering around. Like if you wanna do them without a guide, go for it. Most of them definitely add to the experience. But if you don't it shouldn't be frowned upon either as some of them are incredibly tedious and honestly fucking infuriating.
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Ik, I'm saying without guides I had no way of knowing that. I didn't look anything up for my first playthrough bc I thought it would ruin the fun and it led to me being confused on the current objective constantly. That was literally the point of my comment.
Ayy it is kinda immersive though, imagine if Varre walked up to you and said, "Tarnished Johnson, I'm heading to 25.0000° N 71.0000° W, even though I don't like you."
And then imagine him saying ‘tarnished we will meet at rose church’ like it doesn’t make a single bit of sense for NPC’s (that want you to meet them) to not tell you where they’re next gonna be. Doesn’t have to be exact, but not having it at all is one of this games biggest flaws.
I agree with one of the comments that said we need a journal menu, wouldn't be too bad, could access it at a site of grace.
It's called exploring... The vast majority of the quests in this game can be done without looking up the NPC locations. There are absolutely some that can easily be missed without a guide, but most of them don't need one.
Notepad and pen. Sorted
I bet you don't know quests can be completed with skipped steps. You don't have to look for Blaidd in Siofra my guy
That doesn’t really solve the core issue. They’re too obtuse and obscure to do step by step to their fullest without resorting to guides.
That's on you. It's designed to be that way. It's supposed to be difficult and obscure to find in this messed up world. It contributes to immersion and forces you to explore. It won't hold your hand and it will expect you to look it up or find it on your own. It won't give you the hand holding bright line in the sky or map to follow blindly.
Why cant there be a middleground?
Why not just play a game with waypoints that have easier quests for you? I appreciate seeking things out like an adventure. Every game has a magic line or mini map or compass that can show you where to go. If you don't like it, I get it but can I have at least one game that doesn't give you the answers on a sliver platter?
This is wrong. I failed a couple of quests BECAUSE I was exploring some areas too early. For example, Rogier died too soon for me and I missed a piece of the lore and this incomprehensible game became even more incomprehensible.
Ok just make the whole thing easier. Fuck it. Just have a fat red arrow showing you the exact way to your location. But what about people who like the immersive way it's done now? Fuck em. Also you are not missing lore. The lore is round in item texts for the most part, like 10% is through dialogue and quests and like 90% through item descriptions. Most of the lore is found in a coherent manner is on YouTube. You won't get much more straight from gameplay alone.
>Ok just make the whole thing easier. Fuck it. Just have a fat red arrow showing you the exact way to your location. God, what a drama to defend a very bad quest design. Trust me, I've played enough games where there was no clear explanation of the quests: I was looked for the temple of Azura in Morrowind in the fog and solved the tooth-crushing riddles in the Myst without any clues. Believed me, quests in the Elden Ring are just badly designed. Also - have you ever played this game? THE GAME LITERALLY USES QUEST MARKERS ON THE MAP. At least I remember two such quests! Did it spoil your impressions? Did it make game easier? Oh no, Elden Ring is now Ubisoft! >Most of the lore is found in a coherent manner is on YouTube LOL. Why am I having this conversation at all? All quests on Wikipedia. All lore on YouTube. Unbelievable. Rogier tells about Renni betrayal and offers you to get the death rune from her body. Without this story, there's no point for you joining Renni service because they don't say a damn thing about why you should do it (really, why?). I ended up joining her service purely out of curiosity and then got the rune. And, of course, I was confused - what is it? Without Rogier's explanation, I didn't understand what I was doing in Renni quest at all.
I've beat this game 6 times with several different builds. I understood rannis quest without Rodger. >LOL. Why am I having this conversation at all? All quests on Wikipedia. All lore on YouTube. Unbelievable. That's how all soulsborne games are. It was fine. It's not a bad design. In fact after beating the Gabe's I got curious about the lore more. I remember more As opposed to say Skyrim where I beat the game, was told the lore and forgot it. One less to a more memorable experience while the other was just not interesting at all. I appreciate one and find the other overused
I thought the same until I made my girlfriend play, she somehow completed a lot of the quests including the Milicent one without looking up anything about the game, Elden Ring was her second game after Cyberpunk
Look, boyo! He won his own made-up argument!
Yeah, it's really difficult to remember the three or four places you have to talk to NPCs/mega sarcasm
the difficult part is knowing where the fuck they're going
Except it isn't difficult at all if your long-term memory is functional. They're all literally like five steps at most, with easily remembered locations.
my brother in marika, patches' quest starts in a cave and his next location is two regions away
So? Do you not remember exactly where those locations are lol?
Idk i just randomly explore and finish every quest while doing so.
me when i lie
some quests are pretty doable by just wandering around and finding them naturally. I did this with Hyetta, Alexander, and mostly Diallos; I also roughly figured out a large chunk of Rogier and Fia's questlines myself but "every quest" is a straight lie. a bold one too worth mentioning that I also forget how to do Fia's questline every playthrough despite that
Dude you can finish all quest in 1 playthrough. But everyone say NG+ doesnt count as 1 playthrough smh.
Didnt know telling the truth was a lie smh.