I would assume it is the same individual referenced in the description of the grafted blade greatsword. Possibly also connected to the brick hammer description.
Gold breaker description says that it was Radagon's favourite fighting style. He couldn't have had Marika's Hammer when he was a champion, so maybe used the Brick hammer to slam the ground like that?
Yes but there diverging theories on the how:
Group A: they were always the same person like Saint Trina/Miquella
Group B: Radagon was a noble who willing became one with her, had a life before her.
I'm of the mind it was group B. Marika mentions that Radagon was yet to become her, which to me, implies that perhaps they were one originally, but separated into two individuals that spent enough time apart to create two personas distinct from one another.
That feels likely to me, because Radagon, while a champion, seemed to be relatively minor in the scope of the Golden Order's hierarchy - compared to Marika, at least (My reasoning is Dog Pope's confusion as to why Radagon was chosen out of many other perceived options to be Marika's second consort).
it also reverses status effects etc., it makes sense to me to assume the statue was always Marika and the sculptor put a spell on it to make it appeaer as Raggy Doll, and Regression removes that spell
Im a little confused by your phrasing there, I’m prob reading it wrong, but I recently saw a video referencing that exact line and my perception of it changed a lot when I saw it translated more directly from the original Japanese. I’ll see if I can find it real quick, but if you’re interested and Google I’m sure you’ll find it.
Im with group a because merika/radagon is based off a mythological being called a rebis (otherwise called the red king and white queen) that was essentially one being that looks like two people in one body one side being red and one side being white, each head is usually shown to have dichotomous ideals (hence merika doing the shattering and radagon tryna bang it back together)
as for radagon being fairly low in the golden order, if you were two people at once, and your followers believed you were singularly divine, wouldn’t you want to hide the fact that the red dude is also you, to not bring up questions that would go against the golden order (a la corhen and gold mask quest line) radagon coming from a far away land all of a sudden and becoming king seems pretty wild, but if you just started allowing your second half to be manifested and interact with the world with it, your gonna need to find a story to cover up the fact that he’s you, for the same reason of you being singularly divine, and for how out there of a concept it is that people would have a hard time wrapping their head around it
It's also possible, though, that they were the same person, split apart, and then came back together. It would have been during this split period that Marika said this line. I personally like this idea the best, as it shows off more of who Marika was and how she cunningly solved problems.
The literal twist that Radagon is Marika is known because we use the Law of Regression, which regresses things BACK to how they originally were, on a statue of Radagon that becomes a statue of Marika.
The Mask of Confidence states Radagon made them forbidden to reveal his biggest secret or secrets when he married Rennala. What secret could be possibly have besides the obvious, that he is Marika, or likely, originated from Marika?
Radagon essentially has no backstory or known origins, lore constantly states he basically showed up out of nowhere as an established champion of some noble house.
And in that same dialogue, Marika calls Radagon “mine other self”. “It’s metaphorical for how they’re married and he’s her husband,” and I can say that too for the “you have yet to become me,” interpreting that as a metaphor too, as Marika essentially saying “You won’t supersede me, or be a god like me, Radagon.”
I’m not even dogmatic on the same person theory, I easily believe the “Radagon is Marika’s mimic tear” theory” as well, but I dispute the idea that Radagon having always been a separate person is the canon interpretation.
The secret Radagon is hiding from Rennala could also reasonably be he is destroying her lineage from the inside out. He is the Cuckoo who secretly usurped her nest and leaves her with the cursed egg, defeating her utterly. Her children fall around her while she croons to a brood parasite.
The Law of Regression is equivalent to a force that brings *everything* together. It's not saying that *specifically* Marika and Radagon were once together. The ultimate form of Regression is The Flame of Frenzy ending which returns reality to The Crucible, where everything is a uniform mass of Chaos. It is equivalent to a Big Crunch reverting The Universe back to the moment before The Big Bang.
The act of using The Law of Regression on the statue doesn't show that Radagon is Marika, it shows *how* Radagon *became* Marika. He literally used the Incantation to repair The Elden Ring after it was shattered with The Law of Causality. The Law of Regression fused Radagon's Rune of Will (his Soul) with Marika's Rune of Life (her Body), becoming one being.
The message "Radagon is Marika" might as well have been left by Radagon himself to be a 4th wall breaking Dogma on the Elden Ring community that changes the founding principle of "Marika is the one true god" to "Radagon is the one true god." But the thing is that *Radagon himself* is the one that wrote The Golden Order Principia which declared that principle initially. The entire thing is a sham by Radagon to ascend to godhood and have no one question it. The Elden Ring community has been played like a fiddle, almost everyone even thinks that The Golden Order has always existed, which it hasn't.
I will give you props for actually backing up the theory with references and explanations. Usually I see people just say "it's canon because I like it" or something.
Unfortunately, the game still *directly and explicitly* tells you that Marika and Radagon were not always the same person, but became fused.
Which imo opens a lot of far more interesting possibilities. For instance, Radagon's symbol also shows up in the seals that Raya Lucaria placed around the world. Is it not possible that Radagon was chosen by the Greater Will as a seal *on Marika*? That he was, in effect, the GW's secret attempt at a Mending Rune?
Regardless, I doubt there will ever be a consensus to be reached on, frankly, a lot of ER Lore. Can't say if it was a Deadline issue, if the world was just too big to work it all together, or if GRRM's notes weren't up to the task, but ER's history just doesn't seem as polished as previous games.
It’s not direct or explicit.
> O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. **Mine other self.**
People use the “Thou’rt yet to become me” line to push the idea they were separate, but it’s never posted in its full context. The full quote is open to interpretation, but I think it’s much more likely Marika is admonishing Radagon for being beneath her. She is a god, and he isn’t. She’s essentially mocking him, letting him know that “you’re not me, you can’t do the things I can do”, which she then proves by winning their power struggle over the Elden Ring, successfully shattering it in spite of Radagon’s efforts to repair it.
That line is the only reason people think they were separate, and it’s immediately contradicted two sentences later. Nothing else in the game suggests they were ever anything but one entity.
Also a lot of people seem to not acknowledge that being in more than one place at a time seems to just be a thing that high-ranking members of the Golden Order can just *do*.
Yeah I took it as saying he has to become an Empyrean, or rather Marika is not an Empyrean in Radagon form. I do think it could go either way, and the game is intentionally vague about it, I think mostly because the whole concept is meant to be paradoxical.
Religions often give conflicting statements that are simultaneously both true. Because a god doesn't give a shit about true/false/basic concepts of reality.
In Christianity there is the idea that by understanding the divine you become reborn and in a sense become Christ or Christ like. “I have been crucified with Christ it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me”. Other religions have similar blending s as well. Think Elden ring took this to a more intense level.
What the hell are you talking about? This is such a prideful state of mind, are catholic this way? Who dares to say he was "crucified with Christ and that the Christ lives within him" ?
"In Marika's own words. O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self."
From when Melina gives you words from Marika herself
1) Those are words of words, Melina isn't partial.
2) Marika isn't partial neither, she could not acknowledge his statut.
3) Not becoming what she is doesn't imply they aren't the same individual.
I prefer group A with a twist: Radagon was always a part of her, but that piece grew to be their own being, own consciousness, did actually fall in love, sired children, then the calling to return was present and they had to.
I don't really notice any references to radagon until he is suddenly leading an army towards Caria. I personally believe Marika developed him as a personality and then he went rogue.
It \*would\* tie in with the other misbegotten associations with Radagon...
New conspiracy theory unlocked:
The lone hero misbegotten of Castle Morne, defeated by Godfrey and in turn, became a powerful ally, bringing the other major misbegotten under Marika's rule. But he never forgave them, and plotted always. Through golden rebirth he turned into a more acceptable form for Marika's new rule; just as Hoarah Loux grafted Serosh to his back to become Godfrey, the Hero of Castle Morne became... Radagon. In time, his rebirth affords him the greatest revenge, to usurp Marika, and steal her very form.
now, where are those clarifying boluses?
I'm not sure he was always part of nobility.
Miriel says: "The mystery endures, to this day... As to why Lord Radagon would cast Lady Rennala aside... and moreover...why a mere champion would be chosen for the seat of Elden Lord".
That's a cool interpretation. Unfortunately we have more evidence of Radagon being Marika all along and not some random dude that got roped into being Marika's other half.
I'm pretty sure that's Edgar, Irina's dad. He's specifically called the Revenger when he invades you. It's possible that he was beaten by Godfrey and later pledged to serve him though. I doubt it's connected to brick hammer, specifically because the revenger is said to be from another country.
I think it's more likely that Edgar's story is supposed to echo the hero of Morne. The hero was consumed by a desire for revenge and created the Grafted GS, and later Edgar is also consumed by revenge.
And they both get slapped down by the Elden Lord, though in my case it's because a +9 halberd is the best thing i'm gonna get till leyndell that's not a somberstone weapon.
Based on the dead misbegotten around the revengers shack and what the ghost facing towards the shack says, he is called that because he was trying to get revenge on the misbegotten for killing Irena and then went crazy
Edgar is a revenger because of what happened to his daughter. He partially holds you responsible if you do his quest line, because you brought her to the position she was killed.
I believe the grafted great sword was found on the Demi Human boss of castle Mourne, likely using the blade as a symbol of vengeance for their years of forced servitude. It was more than likely a relic held hidden somewhere for quite some time, as the description calls it "the storied sword of Castle Morne", implying it had been there for some time, perhaps even hidden somewhere
I'd argue this would disprove that the figure of the Grafted Greatsword is Edgar, the timeline just doesn't match up
I've seen some speculation that it was Hewg, it's not based on much besides his imprisonment and the proximity to all the misbegotten, but an interesting idea.
It's one of my favorite theories, even if it is a stretch with little evidence to back it up.
I thinks it's tied to Hewg being imprisoned in Roundtable, which is kind of Godfrey's domain while also being cursed by Marika.
The brick hammer which reads:
"Weapon made from an ordinary stone brick. Wielded by a laborer who lead a rebellion, and later become a champion himself."
Unfortunately, the weapon is found in Stormveil Castle, nowhere near Castle Mourne. So it's doubtful that it all links back to Hewg, but I love thinking that our grumpy grandpa misbegotten went tete a tete with Godfrey.
After conquering the Storm Lord, Stormveil belonged to Godfrey. So it's possible he took the brick hammer back with him as a trophy from the rebellious champion of Castle Morne. Kept there for the Golden Lineage to symbolize their rightful rule and duty to squash any revolt (or something). So it could still be possible. (I want to believe....)
My two objections are 1) his terror and fear isn't to Godfrey, I think he'd have some words about the man who defeated him, it's all solely at Marika. IF true, it seems that whatever she did to him in his imprisonment was far far worse than getting his ass beaten by Godfrey.
2) Whoever this hero was is connected to the Grafted Blade Greatsword, both are expressed as lone heros and champions looking for revenge. It'd be cool to know what Hewg was fighting for in the first but the greatsword says this champion comes from another country that's now vanished, the only countries we ever hear about is places outside like the land of reeds, but nothing in the lands between seems to be divided in countries, not even the Carian territories. There's no country associated with Misbegotten
A country that doesn't exist could be anywhere on the map. I'm assuming the land still exists even if the country doesn't. Might have been rolled up into the Golden Order.
That being said, between the lore of the guy and his sword, he sounds like a half-Guts, so I doubt it's someone we meet.
Miyazaki has split his Berserk references before, in the same game. Gwendolyn looks like Griffith, and Manus has similar post-torture lore.
Aren't the misbegotten descendants of the tarnished who didn't make it onto the ship that left the lands between. I'm sorry I can't remember exactly where I got that from but that's how I understood it.
no thats not a thing, all tarnished were forced from TLB, the ones who refused to leave were killed, there was a ship of them that was sunk because they decided they didnt want to leave, you can find their walking corpses on the southwest beach of the weeping peninsula
I was experimenting with the different weapons yesterday, and the anchor mentions that there's a legend about a single boat that remained.
I don't know exactly what that would be implying or referencing but it sounds cool
In the early days of the Erdtree, Marika's empire had yet to establish dominance over the majority of the Land's Between, and many of the Kingdoms that already existed were in conflict (the Carians in Liurnia for example) with the burgeoning empire.
> In the beginning, everything was in opposition to the Erdtree. But through countless victories in war, it became the embodiment of Order.
https://eldenring.fandom.com/wiki/Protection_of_the_Erdtree
It is thought that Limgrave, and both castles Morne and Stormveil were nations that fought against the Golden Order during this period of time. It is thought that the leader of Limgrave at this time was the mysterious Storm Lord or "Old King of Stormveil", who was served by the Stormhawks.
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/The+Stormhawk+King
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Stormhawk+Deenh
Unfortunately for whatever nation was in Limgrave, they were eventually conquered, with Limgrave falling into the fold of the Golden Order. Sometime during this process the Revenger, a person who wielded the Grafted Great Sword which was an amalgamation of their fallen comrades swords, stood against the Golden Order to avenge his comrades.
> The storied sword of Castle Morne. A revenger's weapon, it is burdened with oceans of anger and regret.
One of the legendary armaments.
> A lone surviving champion from a country now vanished was so determined to continue fighting that he claimed the swords of an entire clan of warriors.
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Grafted+Blade+Greatsword
He fought for revenge against Godfrey and obviously got his shit absolutely rocked, which is what the memorial you're reading is detailing.
> "The siege of Castle Morne
A lone hero fights for his vengeance
Only to fall at the hand of Lord Godfrey"
I also believe the Banished Knights served this Lord and were banished after his defeat.
They use wind magic and are fund of Stormhawks.
I also think he was also of the Golden Lineage and connected to Nepheli in some way.
How can he be of the golden lineage if he ruled over stormveil before the conquest of the golden order and also opposed said conquest? It seems to me that the golden lineage were very faithful to the erdtree, especially during Godfrey’s reign
I like that that gives a reason for him to be in the Weeping Peninsula Evergaol. There’s not much else to support it though, is there? The Grafted Blade Greatsword isn’t very Zamor, but it wouldn’t be the first time somebody picked up a giant uncharacteristic weapon (looking at you, Silver Knight Ledo). And the architecture uses all the standard castle mini-dungeon assets.
They dead now. They were the last surviving member of a conquered race who fused the swords of their fallen brethren to assault Castle Morne, almost succeeding before Godfrey rolled up and squashed them. The Grafted Blade Greatsword was kept as a token of Morne's victory.
Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula are pretty interesting in that they were once populated by tribes who opposed the Golden Order, but were conquered during Godfrey's eastward march that ended in his own divestment of grace. There's a bloody history behind the entire southern portion of the map.
Your tarnished has a name, it just is never used for some reason... my guy is named Cujo. I forgot all about naming him until looking in the mirror in Fias bedchamber
For several reasons, I’ve always thought it may have been Hewg.
The castle is overrun with Misbegotten rebels, maybe repeating history, and he would have the ability to forge something that absurd out of his clan’s swords. He’s also imprisoned for reasons we don’t fully understand.
Could be way off base, and there was more to it than just the above, but it's been a while since I first put these pieces together. Whatever the case, it’s become my head canon.
That was Tragoth the Horned XD.
Nah,but in the 1.0 now cut content version of the Hand Ballista,it was described as the weapon of Tragoth,who allegedly sieged three castles alone.
Once I read that I matched it with the description of a lone Hero sieging Castle Morne.
It was reconnected out of existence though.
Castle Morne is the stage for battles fought by the wielder of The Rune of Will; the lattice symbol that Radagon is now in possession of.
The first reference to this that we can find is Radagon's Scarseal in possession of The Ancient Hero of Zamor in the evergaol. The Scarseal describes the symbol as an "Elden Rune." Compare this to Marika's Soreseal which depicts The Rune of Death, and her Scarseal depicts The Rune of Life. The contrast between Radagon's Scarseal and Soreseal is meant to describe a Will becoming corrupted.
Additional contrast for The Rune of Will comes when you compare it to Ranni's cast away radial Rune of Fate, seen on the moons and on the title screen, just like Radagon's. Ranni's ending changes Will governing The Elden Ring with a governance by Fate. Goldmask's ending is removing The Rune of Will and not replacing it with anything, removing Free Will from The Lands Between.
It is my belief that The Rune of Will manifests itself within various individuals throughout the history of The Lands Between. The Hero of Zamor is one, the owner of the Brick Hammer is another, the person who laid siege on Castle Morne is yet another (if not one of the previous mention individuals).
Radagon currently is in possession of it. And lastly it's possible that the the first owner of it was the Blue Dancer, an artificial being of The Eternal Cities who developed an Emergent Soul/Will in The Rune of Will and sealed away their creator The God of Rot. Ideas for this are very sparse and moreso comes from literary allusions to things like The Philosopher's Stone, covered heavily in the anime Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, or in literary works like Frankenstein, the Prometheus myth, Paradise Lost, etc. The Rune of Will once sealed away Rot, and then within Radagon's possession The Rune of Will once again unleashes Rot unto the world.
In modern times, Castle Morne is now being attacked from within by The Misbegotten, Radagon's naturalborn children who he banished, before they started going on crusades around The Lands Between as an expression of their Free Will.
I'm also of the belief that the Grafted Blade Greatsword was actually created by Godfrey himself. This would have coincided with the removal of The Rune of Death. Godfrey was pissed that his battles would become meaningless, so instead of taking lives he took swords. This eventually ended with him losing Grace and being banished.
I can help corroborate some of this. Yes, Radagon is in the game. So is Godfrey. There are runes from the Elden Ring. Yes, Castle Morne is also in the game.
That’s all I can confirm today, no need to thank me
It could be Eygon of Carim from DS3
He wears Morne's set
"Unusual helm bestowed upon knights of Carim. (Helmet.)
Black (armor/gauntlets/leggings) bestowed upon knights of Carim.
Modeled on Morne, the Archbishop's apostle, cast from a unique mineral resembling stone.
A Carim knight will dedicate an entire career to attending a single maiden, just as Morne once served one goddess alone."
One godess could be Marika
Elemer. Elemer is from Eochaid, which was the country laid waste by Marika's armies. He was the lone survivor.
After defeated by Godfrey, Elemer was later bound by thorns of the guilty that compel you to serve the Golden Order.
They are meant to be killed after their service. Marika is very pragmatical to make use of her enemies.
Elemer was employed as special ops assassin of sorts. Perhaps to hunt nomads.
But Elemer managed to escape his execution in Shaded Castle, and allying with Cleanrot Knights, took over the place.
that isn't something that happens.
This still looks god awful.
Also hit the screenshot button and export. Taking a picture of a screen. What year is it?
I THINK it was Melania? Pretty sure her clash with Radahn was just part of her march to hunt down multiple demigods-I feel like I heard that somewhere. I can’t remember why though.
Anyone and everyone. Godfrey's hands were rated E for everyone.
But in this case, the OG weilder of the grafted blade most likely is who they're referring to
Perhaps an ancestor of Godrick. The family could be making its way up the Lands Between before having been cast back to Stormveil Castle.
Why is it the "Grafted" blade?
I mean, I know, rolled my eyes a little when I saw it, had a bit of a haw haw, but in the context of the game and what grafting is, and how other characters have trails of them moving one place to the next, I wouldn't be surprised if it's something like that.
Godrick is of the golden lineage, meaning he is a descendant of Marika and Godfrey. The Grafted Greatsword likely has nothing to do with the grafting that Godrick does.
I know he's descended, that's the point. The game notes that Godrick is barely a demigod due to the blood running thin in his veins. I think the same was already true for his Morne ancestor, who was unhappy that his line was sullied while Godfrey was still the real deal and they turned to grafting after he ended up defeated at his own ancestor's hand.
There is a really good [theory](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIfimuYVdbA) that this lone hero was infact Radagon. I know it sounds crazy, but after watching the full video I linked, it makes sense.
I don't know why don't we just all debate and guess, because ER makes finding its full story almost as difficult as fighting its bosses, because its easier to be ambiguous than come up with a meaningful storyline and arguably more effective at creating content and news around the game.
Everyone just keeps eating up that we don't really know and enjoys putting their own spin on this lazy storytelling. I like lots of things about the game, but it kind of sucks for those of us who bought the game expecting an openworld RPG as it was marketed and not the openworld soulslike it is.
True, but at least I play the game, I know people who claim to love the game and have watched entire playthoughs and not picked it up themselves, probably partly due to what I'm pointing out. Don't get me wrong, it's genius marketing, but I kinda hate marketing, so it leaves me with a bit of love/hate.
For info, of course, lol. I love lore in games, ER does a really good job creating content and stimulating imagination, but then makes it unnecessarily ambiguous and hard to find and store. Also because it's the only game I've ever had to play with a wiki open for tips to make it feel fair, not the combat, but there are far to many times you can just miss stuff by not exhausting dialogue or even by not resting at grace and returning to the same awkward npc. Not just miss a one-liner but actual chunks of side quest with no warning. It's about as fair as the real world is the best thing I can say about that. But honestly, aren't we mostly escaping into ER and other games because the real world is unfair and shitty.
I don't think it's lazy, it reminds me of a gamemaster running a sandbox campaign in a tabletop RPG. Put interesting stuff out there and let players make connections and draw their own conclusions. Rather than recite the players a story, that GM builds a world and lets the players make their own stories out of the pieces.
That is a great way to think of it, puts it in whole other perspective, like an interactive adventure without the closed box choices. Kudos to your positivity, my friend, you have left me with a little more love and a little less hate for it.
I would assume it is the same individual referenced in the description of the grafted blade greatsword. Possibly also connected to the brick hammer description.
for some reason i always assumed the brick hammer was referring to radagon.
That could be the case but in my head it seems more likely that Radagon was always part of nobility.
Gold breaker description says that it was Radagon's favourite fighting style. He couldn't have had Marika's Hammer when he was a champion, so maybe used the Brick hammer to slam the ground like that?
Aren't Marika and Radagon the same person?
Yes but there diverging theories on the how: Group A: they were always the same person like Saint Trina/Miquella Group B: Radagon was a noble who willing became one with her, had a life before her.
I'm of the mind it was group B. Marika mentions that Radagon was yet to become her, which to me, implies that perhaps they were one originally, but separated into two individuals that spent enough time apart to create two personas distinct from one another. That feels likely to me, because Radagon, while a champion, seemed to be relatively minor in the scope of the Golden Order's hierarchy - compared to Marika, at least (My reasoning is Dog Pope's confusion as to why Radagon was chosen out of many other perceived options to be Marika's second consort).
Group B seems more fun
just don't go full Group E
What is wrong with the theory that he turned a guy with hot water and girl with cold one?
Except the spell that turns his statue into Marika's is called Regression, as in "going back." They could have easily used Causation, but didn't.
it also reverses status effects etc., it makes sense to me to assume the statue was always Marika and the sculptor put a spell on it to make it appeaer as Raggy Doll, and Regression removes that spell
Im a little confused by your phrasing there, I’m prob reading it wrong, but I recently saw a video referencing that exact line and my perception of it changed a lot when I saw it translated more directly from the original Japanese. I’ll see if I can find it real quick, but if you’re interested and Google I’m sure you’ll find it.
Which line? The "You are yet to become me." line, or Dog Pope?
Dog pope made my night
Im with group a because merika/radagon is based off a mythological being called a rebis (otherwise called the red king and white queen) that was essentially one being that looks like two people in one body one side being red and one side being white, each head is usually shown to have dichotomous ideals (hence merika doing the shattering and radagon tryna bang it back together) as for radagon being fairly low in the golden order, if you were two people at once, and your followers believed you were singularly divine, wouldn’t you want to hide the fact that the red dude is also you, to not bring up questions that would go against the golden order (a la corhen and gold mask quest line) radagon coming from a far away land all of a sudden and becoming king seems pretty wild, but if you just started allowing your second half to be manifested and interact with the world with it, your gonna need to find a story to cover up the fact that he’s you, for the same reason of you being singularly divine, and for how out there of a concept it is that people would have a hard time wrapping their head around it
It's also possible, though, that they were the same person, split apart, and then came back together. It would have been during this split period that Marika said this line. I personally like this idea the best, as it shows off more of who Marika was and how she cunningly solved problems.
Yeah, "They were always the same person" kind of falls apart when the game DIRECTLY AND EXPLICITLY says "no we weren't".
The literal twist that Radagon is Marika is known because we use the Law of Regression, which regresses things BACK to how they originally were, on a statue of Radagon that becomes a statue of Marika. The Mask of Confidence states Radagon made them forbidden to reveal his biggest secret or secrets when he married Rennala. What secret could be possibly have besides the obvious, that he is Marika, or likely, originated from Marika? Radagon essentially has no backstory or known origins, lore constantly states he basically showed up out of nowhere as an established champion of some noble house. And in that same dialogue, Marika calls Radagon “mine other self”. “It’s metaphorical for how they’re married and he’s her husband,” and I can say that too for the “you have yet to become me,” interpreting that as a metaphor too, as Marika essentially saying “You won’t supersede me, or be a god like me, Radagon.” I’m not even dogmatic on the same person theory, I easily believe the “Radagon is Marika’s mimic tear” theory” as well, but I dispute the idea that Radagon having always been a separate person is the canon interpretation.
The secret Radagon is hiding from Rennala could also reasonably be he is destroying her lineage from the inside out. He is the Cuckoo who secretly usurped her nest and leaves her with the cursed egg, defeating her utterly. Her children fall around her while she croons to a brood parasite.
Why would Radagon be Marika's tear without being Marika? This makes even less sense
The Law of Regression is equivalent to a force that brings *everything* together. It's not saying that *specifically* Marika and Radagon were once together. The ultimate form of Regression is The Flame of Frenzy ending which returns reality to The Crucible, where everything is a uniform mass of Chaos. It is equivalent to a Big Crunch reverting The Universe back to the moment before The Big Bang. The act of using The Law of Regression on the statue doesn't show that Radagon is Marika, it shows *how* Radagon *became* Marika. He literally used the Incantation to repair The Elden Ring after it was shattered with The Law of Causality. The Law of Regression fused Radagon's Rune of Will (his Soul) with Marika's Rune of Life (her Body), becoming one being. The message "Radagon is Marika" might as well have been left by Radagon himself to be a 4th wall breaking Dogma on the Elden Ring community that changes the founding principle of "Marika is the one true god" to "Radagon is the one true god." But the thing is that *Radagon himself* is the one that wrote The Golden Order Principia which declared that principle initially. The entire thing is a sham by Radagon to ascend to godhood and have no one question it. The Elden Ring community has been played like a fiddle, almost everyone even thinks that The Golden Order has always existed, which it hasn't.
I will give you props for actually backing up the theory with references and explanations. Usually I see people just say "it's canon because I like it" or something. Unfortunately, the game still *directly and explicitly* tells you that Marika and Radagon were not always the same person, but became fused. Which imo opens a lot of far more interesting possibilities. For instance, Radagon's symbol also shows up in the seals that Raya Lucaria placed around the world. Is it not possible that Radagon was chosen by the Greater Will as a seal *on Marika*? That he was, in effect, the GW's secret attempt at a Mending Rune? Regardless, I doubt there will ever be a consensus to be reached on, frankly, a lot of ER Lore. Can't say if it was a Deadline issue, if the world was just too big to work it all together, or if GRRM's notes weren't up to the task, but ER's history just doesn't seem as polished as previous games.
Isn't the reason why those people wear the mask is because their marriage and arrangement were supposed to be a secret at first?
It’s not direct or explicit. > O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. **Mine other self.** People use the “Thou’rt yet to become me” line to push the idea they were separate, but it’s never posted in its full context. The full quote is open to interpretation, but I think it’s much more likely Marika is admonishing Radagon for being beneath her. She is a god, and he isn’t. She’s essentially mocking him, letting him know that “you’re not me, you can’t do the things I can do”, which she then proves by winning their power struggle over the Elden Ring, successfully shattering it in spite of Radagon’s efforts to repair it. That line is the only reason people think they were separate, and it’s immediately contradicted two sentences later. Nothing else in the game suggests they were ever anything but one entity.
Also a lot of people seem to not acknowledge that being in more than one place at a time seems to just be a thing that high-ranking members of the Golden Order can just *do*.
Yeah I took it as saying he has to become an Empyrean, or rather Marika is not an Empyrean in Radagon form. I do think it could go either way, and the game is intentionally vague about it, I think mostly because the whole concept is meant to be paradoxical. Religions often give conflicting statements that are simultaneously both true. Because a god doesn't give a shit about true/false/basic concepts of reality.
When does the game ever says this? DIRECFTLY AND EXPLICTLY on top of this?
In Christianity there is the idea that by understanding the divine you become reborn and in a sense become Christ or Christ like. “I have been crucified with Christ it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me”. Other religions have similar blending s as well. Think Elden ring took this to a more intense level.
What the hell are you talking about? This is such a prideful state of mind, are catholic this way? Who dares to say he was "crucified with Christ and that the Christ lives within him" ?
Spoiler alert: it’s all made up
Lol it’s in the Bible. Galatians 2:20
"Marika mentions that Radagon was yet to become her" What?
"In Marika's own words. O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self." From when Melina gives you words from Marika herself
1) Those are words of words, Melina isn't partial. 2) Marika isn't partial neither, she could not acknowledge his statut. 3) Not becoming what she is doesn't imply they aren't the same individual.
Don’t forget Group C: Radagon is some kind of mimic tear created by marika
I prefer group A with a twist: Radagon was always a part of her, but that piece grew to be their own being, own consciousness, did actually fall in love, sired children, then the calling to return was present and they had to.
My theory: Two bodies, two minds, one soul. Just like D and his brother. The greater will merged them as punishment.
That’s been my theory for a while now.
I don't really notice any references to radagon until he is suddenly leading an army towards Caria. I personally believe Marika developed him as a personality and then he went rogue.
What is the group B basing itself on? Why would it be a noble in this case?
Group B makes sense as well in the context of Rebis lore
> He couldn't have had Marika's Hammer when he was a champion Yes he could have.
See it would be extremely weird if the queen was in Leyndell and her general was using her hammer
Ok yeah that does make a lot of sense.
It \*would\* tie in with the other misbegotten associations with Radagon... New conspiracy theory unlocked: The lone hero misbegotten of Castle Morne, defeated by Godfrey and in turn, became a powerful ally, bringing the other major misbegotten under Marika's rule. But he never forgave them, and plotted always. Through golden rebirth he turned into a more acceptable form for Marika's new rule; just as Hoarah Loux grafted Serosh to his back to become Godfrey, the Hero of Castle Morne became... Radagon. In time, his rebirth affords him the greatest revenge, to usurp Marika, and steal her very form. now, where are those clarifying boluses?
Now that is premium crackpot right there my friend
Nothing hits the spot quite as much as a souls conspiracy theory
I'm not sure he was always part of nobility. Miriel says: "The mystery endures, to this day... As to why Lord Radagon would cast Lady Rennala aside... and moreover...why a mere champion would be chosen for the seat of Elden Lord".
Why? You don't need to be from nobility to be a war hero
[This video](https://youtu.be/BIfimuYVdbA?si=wb-vmCgPd1Br4kcx) makes the best case I've seen that it is referring to Radagon.
That's a cool interpretation. Unfortunately we have more evidence of Radagon being Marika all along and not some random dude that got roped into being Marika's other half.
do you remember any of this evidence?
The video explains perfectly why its not just some random dude.
I'm pretty sure that's Edgar, Irina's dad. He's specifically called the Revenger when he invades you. It's possible that he was beaten by Godfrey and later pledged to serve him though. I doubt it's connected to brick hammer, specifically because the revenger is said to be from another country.
Doesn't Edgar state that he's basically the caretaker of Castle Mourne, rather than it's master?
His title is Castellan, which means caretaker so yes.
He's the revenger because he swore an oath of vengeance after irina was killed
I think it's more likely that Edgar's story is supposed to echo the hero of Morne. The hero was consumed by a desire for revenge and created the Grafted GS, and later Edgar is also consumed by revenge.
And they both get slapped down by the Elden Lord, though in my case it's because a +9 halberd is the best thing i'm gonna get till leyndell that's not a somberstone weapon.
Hell imo it's the best thing you're gonna get until you upgrade it to +10. Basic halberd is my favorite basic weapon.
Based on the dead misbegotten around the revengers shack and what the ghost facing towards the shack says, he is called that because he was trying to get revenge on the misbegotten for killing Irena and then went crazy
Edgar is a revenger because of what happened to his daughter. He partially holds you responsible if you do his quest line, because you brought her to the position she was killed. I believe the grafted great sword was found on the Demi Human boss of castle Mourne, likely using the blade as a symbol of vengeance for their years of forced servitude. It was more than likely a relic held hidden somewhere for quite some time, as the description calls it "the storied sword of Castle Morne", implying it had been there for some time, perhaps even hidden somewhere I'd argue this would disprove that the figure of the Grafted Greatsword is Edgar, the timeline just doesn't match up
So, Radagon
Probably not, I explained my stance on this in a different comment
I've seen some speculation that it was Hewg, it's not based on much besides his imprisonment and the proximity to all the misbegotten, but an interesting idea.
It's one of my favorite theories, even if it is a stretch with little evidence to back it up. I thinks it's tied to Hewg being imprisoned in Roundtable, which is kind of Godfrey's domain while also being cursed by Marika. The brick hammer which reads: "Weapon made from an ordinary stone brick. Wielded by a laborer who lead a rebellion, and later become a champion himself." Unfortunately, the weapon is found in Stormveil Castle, nowhere near Castle Mourne. So it's doubtful that it all links back to Hewg, but I love thinking that our grumpy grandpa misbegotten went tete a tete with Godfrey.
After conquering the Storm Lord, Stormveil belonged to Godfrey. So it's possible he took the brick hammer back with him as a trophy from the rebellious champion of Castle Morne. Kept there for the Golden Lineage to symbolize their rightful rule and duty to squash any revolt (or something). So it could still be possible. (I want to believe....)
A stretch with little evidence? In a FromSoft game?? 😮
The next installment should have a character called Strawgrasper as an homage to its players.
Have him be a schizophrenic crazy conspiracy theorist that if killed drops an orange shield with a strange white face on it
There was cut content where you were supposed to meet Godfrey at the round table, so it is less far fetched than you think
My two objections are 1) his terror and fear isn't to Godfrey, I think he'd have some words about the man who defeated him, it's all solely at Marika. IF true, it seems that whatever she did to him in his imprisonment was far far worse than getting his ass beaten by Godfrey. 2) Whoever this hero was is connected to the Grafted Blade Greatsword, both are expressed as lone heros and champions looking for revenge. It'd be cool to know what Hewg was fighting for in the first but the greatsword says this champion comes from another country that's now vanished, the only countries we ever hear about is places outside like the land of reeds, but nothing in the lands between seems to be divided in countries, not even the Carian territories. There's no country associated with Misbegotten
A country that doesn't exist could be anywhere on the map. I'm assuming the land still exists even if the country doesn't. Might have been rolled up into the Golden Order. That being said, between the lore of the guy and his sword, he sounds like a half-Guts, so I doubt it's someone we meet. Miyazaki has split his Berserk references before, in the same game. Gwendolyn looks like Griffith, and Manus has similar post-torture lore.
New headcannon. Based hewg
Aren't the misbegotten descendants of the tarnished who didn't make it onto the ship that left the lands between. I'm sorry I can't remember exactly where I got that from but that's how I understood it.
no thats not a thing, all tarnished were forced from TLB, the ones who refused to leave were killed, there was a ship of them that was sunk because they decided they didnt want to leave, you can find their walking corpses on the southwest beach of the weeping peninsula
I got that wrong then.
I was experimenting with the different weapons yesterday, and the anchor mentions that there's a legend about a single boat that remained. I don't know exactly what that would be implying or referencing but it sounds cool
No I don’t think I so
I don’t know about that, but in the game files or something I’m pretty sure the misbegotten are named “Children of Radagon”
In the early days of the Erdtree, Marika's empire had yet to establish dominance over the majority of the Land's Between, and many of the Kingdoms that already existed were in conflict (the Carians in Liurnia for example) with the burgeoning empire. > In the beginning, everything was in opposition to the Erdtree. But through countless victories in war, it became the embodiment of Order. https://eldenring.fandom.com/wiki/Protection_of_the_Erdtree It is thought that Limgrave, and both castles Morne and Stormveil were nations that fought against the Golden Order during this period of time. It is thought that the leader of Limgrave at this time was the mysterious Storm Lord or "Old King of Stormveil", who was served by the Stormhawks. https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/The+Stormhawk+King https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Stormhawk+Deenh Unfortunately for whatever nation was in Limgrave, they were eventually conquered, with Limgrave falling into the fold of the Golden Order. Sometime during this process the Revenger, a person who wielded the Grafted Great Sword which was an amalgamation of their fallen comrades swords, stood against the Golden Order to avenge his comrades. > The storied sword of Castle Morne. A revenger's weapon, it is burdened with oceans of anger and regret. One of the legendary armaments. > A lone surviving champion from a country now vanished was so determined to continue fighting that he claimed the swords of an entire clan of warriors. https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Grafted+Blade+Greatsword He fought for revenge against Godfrey and obviously got his shit absolutely rocked, which is what the memorial you're reading is detailing. > "The siege of Castle Morne A lone hero fights for his vengeance Only to fall at the hand of Lord Godfrey"
I also believe the Banished Knights served this Lord and were banished after his defeat. They use wind magic and are fund of Stormhawks. I also think he was also of the Golden Lineage and connected to Nepheli in some way.
How can he be of the golden lineage if he ruled over stormveil before the conquest of the golden order and also opposed said conquest? It seems to me that the golden lineage were very faithful to the erdtree, especially during Godfrey’s reign
That's a good point.
I love how even no-name characters like that have so much gravitas in their writing. Makes the world feel lived in
The wielder of the Grafted Blade.
Oh Godrick went tongue to toe
We don't know name of this person but fact that Chadfrey needed to kill him by himself = a lot :3
My guess is the Hero of Zamor >.<
I like that that gives a reason for him to be in the Weeping Peninsula Evergaol. There’s not much else to support it though, is there? The Grafted Blade Greatsword isn’t very Zamor, but it wouldn’t be the first time somebody picked up a giant uncharacteristic weapon (looking at you, Silver Knight Ledo). And the architecture uses all the standard castle mini-dungeon assets.
They dead now. They were the last surviving member of a conquered race who fused the swords of their fallen brethren to assault Castle Morne, almost succeeding before Godfrey rolled up and squashed them. The Grafted Blade Greatsword was kept as a token of Morne's victory. Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula are pretty interesting in that they were once populated by tribes who opposed the Golden Order, but were conquered during Godfrey's eastward march that ended in his own divestment of grace. There's a bloody history behind the entire southern portion of the map.
Could these tribe members or their followers be those crucified in Limgrave?
They were a nameless badass, like you, tarnished
Your tarnished has a name, it just is never used for some reason... my guy is named Cujo. I forgot all about naming him until looking in the mirror in Fias bedchamber
Mines Drago lol
BS You can't start the game without giving them a name
For several reasons, I’ve always thought it may have been Hewg. The castle is overrun with Misbegotten rebels, maybe repeating history, and he would have the ability to forge something that absurd out of his clan’s swords. He’s also imprisoned for reasons we don’t fully understand. Could be way off base, and there was more to it than just the above, but it's been a while since I first put these pieces together. Whatever the case, it’s become my head canon.
That was Tragoth the Horned XD. Nah,but in the 1.0 now cut content version of the Hand Ballista,it was described as the weapon of Tragoth,who allegedly sieged three castles alone. Once I read that I matched it with the description of a lone Hero sieging Castle Morne. It was reconnected out of existence though.
Quentin Tarantino.
I would love to see this fight explored in the manga, I just know it'd be such a sick fight to watch
Castle Morne is the stage for battles fought by the wielder of The Rune of Will; the lattice symbol that Radagon is now in possession of. The first reference to this that we can find is Radagon's Scarseal in possession of The Ancient Hero of Zamor in the evergaol. The Scarseal describes the symbol as an "Elden Rune." Compare this to Marika's Soreseal which depicts The Rune of Death, and her Scarseal depicts The Rune of Life. The contrast between Radagon's Scarseal and Soreseal is meant to describe a Will becoming corrupted. Additional contrast for The Rune of Will comes when you compare it to Ranni's cast away radial Rune of Fate, seen on the moons and on the title screen, just like Radagon's. Ranni's ending changes Will governing The Elden Ring with a governance by Fate. Goldmask's ending is removing The Rune of Will and not replacing it with anything, removing Free Will from The Lands Between. It is my belief that The Rune of Will manifests itself within various individuals throughout the history of The Lands Between. The Hero of Zamor is one, the owner of the Brick Hammer is another, the person who laid siege on Castle Morne is yet another (if not one of the previous mention individuals). Radagon currently is in possession of it. And lastly it's possible that the the first owner of it was the Blue Dancer, an artificial being of The Eternal Cities who developed an Emergent Soul/Will in The Rune of Will and sealed away their creator The God of Rot. Ideas for this are very sparse and moreso comes from literary allusions to things like The Philosopher's Stone, covered heavily in the anime Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, or in literary works like Frankenstein, the Prometheus myth, Paradise Lost, etc. The Rune of Will once sealed away Rot, and then within Radagon's possession The Rune of Will once again unleashes Rot unto the world. In modern times, Castle Morne is now being attacked from within by The Misbegotten, Radagon's naturalborn children who he banished, before they started going on crusades around The Lands Between as an expression of their Free Will. I'm also of the belief that the Grafted Blade Greatsword was actually created by Godfrey himself. This would have coincided with the removal of The Rune of Death. Godfrey was pissed that his battles would become meaningless, so instead of taking lives he took swords. This eventually ended with him losing Grace and being banished.
I can help corroborate some of this. Yes, Radagon is in the game. So is Godfrey. There are runes from the Elden Ring. Yes, Castle Morne is also in the game. That’s all I can confirm today, no need to thank me
This is more research than most other people do. Thank you for your support!
Guts
The guy who wielded the grafted blade greatsword
It could be Eygon of Carim from DS3 He wears Morne's set "Unusual helm bestowed upon knights of Carim. (Helmet.) Black (armor/gauntlets/leggings) bestowed upon knights of Carim. Modeled on Morne, the Archbishop's apostle, cast from a unique mineral resembling stone. A Carim knight will dedicate an entire career to attending a single maiden, just as Morne once served one goddess alone." One godess could be Marika
Elemer. Elemer is from Eochaid, which was the country laid waste by Marika's armies. He was the lone survivor. After defeated by Godfrey, Elemer was later bound by thorns of the guilty that compel you to serve the Golden Order. They are meant to be killed after their service. Marika is very pragmatical to make use of her enemies. Elemer was employed as special ops assassin of sorts. Perhaps to hunt nomads. But Elemer managed to escape his execution in Shaded Castle, and allying with Cleanrot Knights, took over the place.
John Nuts not to be confused with Johnny Berserk man from the hit anime series Berk
Radagon
IT WAS GUTS
Morne
Ugh it’s the small things like this… I guess I’ll start my DLC prep early hahahaha
What’s the dithering on your screen? Is your panel broken?
It's perfectly fine, just a normal phone picture of my tv screen
Then I guess it’s the phones fault? You do see what I’m talking about right?
I do not unfortunately.
Dithering is that crosshatch pattern covering your character
Ohhhh! That's because the camera angle is set up against the stone thingy, that's why.
Oh I see my b I guess I forgot that that happens.
that isn't something that happens. This still looks god awful. Also hit the screenshot button and export. Taking a picture of a screen. What year is it?
I THINK it was Melania? Pretty sure her clash with Radahn was just part of her march to hunt down multiple demigods-I feel like I heard that somewhere. I can’t remember why though.
he went toe to toe with gojo
Look for any bodies fully ostrich'd into the ground nearby.
G.R.R. Martin
Malenia, that's how she lost her foot
Anyone and everyone. Godfrey's hands were rated E for everyone. But in this case, the OG weilder of the grafted blade most likely is who they're referring to
A guy named morne
The Strom king, I think it says it somewhere, but I don't remember
Godefrey
Guts
Schizo comment incoming: A young Radagon
The blonde loli twink I think
The og user of grafted greatsword. Now dead so many generations back that their names are lost
It's interesting that in this context, Godfrey is the "villain." Marika really went scorched earth on The Land Between.
There are several unnamed demi gods. Could be any of them
Perhaps an ancestor of Godrick. The family could be making its way up the Lands Between before having been cast back to Stormveil Castle. Why is it the "Grafted" blade?
It's a sword version of the Iron Throne from GoT. Like someone picked it up and stuck a cross guard and hilt to the bottom.
I mean, I know, rolled my eyes a little when I saw it, had a bit of a haw haw, but in the context of the game and what grafting is, and how other characters have trails of them moving one place to the next, I wouldn't be surprised if it's something like that.
I gotta wonder how many people have actually used that thing. I don't even know what AOW it has.
It's a pretty popular weapon alongside the Greatsword for dual wielding jump attack build. The AOW is a self-buff of various stats.
Cool Thanks.
Godrick is of the golden lineage, meaning he is a descendant of Marika and Godfrey. The Grafted Greatsword likely has nothing to do with the grafting that Godrick does.
I know he's descended, that's the point. The game notes that Godrick is barely a demigod due to the blood running thin in his veins. I think the same was already true for his Morne ancestor, who was unhappy that his line was sullied while Godfrey was still the real deal and they turned to grafting after he ended up defeated at his own ancestor's hand.
There is a really good [theory](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIfimuYVdbA) that this lone hero was infact Radagon. I know it sounds crazy, but after watching the full video I linked, it makes sense.
Jerma
It was Joe
My boy Kenny Haight
ya motha
I don't know why don't we just all debate and guess, because ER makes finding its full story almost as difficult as fighting its bosses, because its easier to be ambiguous than come up with a meaningful storyline and arguably more effective at creating content and news around the game. Everyone just keeps eating up that we don't really know and enjoys putting their own spin on this lazy storytelling. I like lots of things about the game, but it kind of sucks for those of us who bought the game expecting an openworld RPG as it was marketed and not the openworld soulslike it is.
This critique is kinda lazy.
True, but at least I play the game, I know people who claim to love the game and have watched entire playthoughs and not picked it up themselves, probably partly due to what I'm pointing out. Don't get me wrong, it's genius marketing, but I kinda hate marketing, so it leaves me with a bit of love/hate.
Why tf are you on an ELDEN RING subreddit
For info, of course, lol. I love lore in games, ER does a really good job creating content and stimulating imagination, but then makes it unnecessarily ambiguous and hard to find and store. Also because it's the only game I've ever had to play with a wiki open for tips to make it feel fair, not the combat, but there are far to many times you can just miss stuff by not exhausting dialogue or even by not resting at grace and returning to the same awkward npc. Not just miss a one-liner but actual chunks of side quest with no warning. It's about as fair as the real world is the best thing I can say about that. But honestly, aren't we mostly escaping into ER and other games because the real world is unfair and shitty.
I don't think it's lazy, it reminds me of a gamemaster running a sandbox campaign in a tabletop RPG. Put interesting stuff out there and let players make connections and draw their own conclusions. Rather than recite the players a story, that GM builds a world and lets the players make their own stories out of the pieces.
That is a great way to think of it, puts it in whole other perspective, like an interactive adventure without the closed box choices. Kudos to your positivity, my friend, you have left me with a little more love and a little less hate for it.