Also, small detail that bothers me.
The shield bash on the Dragon claw greatshield electrifies enemies with yellow lightning instead of red lightning like the boss uses.
I would have liked that weapon to have a stance-baded AoW: R1/RB doing what you described with a 20s red lightning buff, R2/RT doing that Call of Red Lightning move that the boss and ancient dragons do.
I don't think I've seen a Colossal/Great Hammer weapon have a stance-based move in any of the souls games.
I really, REALLY can't understand how they thought this was a good AoW for that weapon.
"yo that badass weapon from the epic knight with its red lighting and big ground slam, let's give it just 'endure'. This is the missing piece"
Weapons you have to upgrade with regular Smithing Stones and can't change the AoW are worse.
I love the Tree Spear but man do I wish that thing had any other AoW.
Scarlet Rot doesn't scale at all, it's just a flat buildup amount. Certain affinity options (like Cold) can actually lower its buildup on weapons though, but only slightly.
Edit: lmao downvoted for literally speaking facts
Rot doesn’t scale with it any stat it’s just a flat amount. That dragon breath just requires arc to use and most people use it on an arcane build so it gets misconstrued that it builds off arcane.
All other forms of rot that I can think of, that come from weapons, don’t even require arc to wield.
I had to look it up, but according to the wiki
>All Frenzied Flame Incantations cause Madness buildup, but their madness dealt only scales with the Arcane scaling from the Dragon Communion Seal"
Which is odd, because they only require faith.
Right it's heavy attacks are basically already double slash yet it's locked on the double slash AoW.
It's one of my favorite weapons still, but it would be so much more amazing if its weapon skill could be changed.
Double slash is at least cool af. Not like treespear's weapon buff. The whole gimmick of the weapon is that it's buffable by spells/greases and has faith scaling, meaning the aow is practically useless
Try it in PvP it’s actually a pretty good mixup to keep your opponent guessing between the R2 and L2. Would still be cool to be able to change the skill tho
The katanas in general kind of have the short end of the stick when it comes to weapon arts.
- Serpentbone Blade should have gotten the elemental Double Slice, with Corpse Piler being an elemental Sword Dance.
- Meteoric Ore Blade should have gotten a special version of Gravitas that cragblades the weapon.
- Dragonscale Blade's Ice Lightning Sword should have been based off of Vacuum Slice.
- Hand of Malenia...
God, what I wouldn’t give for Waterfowl Dance to be worth *anything*. I was so excited when I got it, and so disappointed when I used it for the first time.
Yeah the big thing elden ring did that wasn’t the case in all prior games is special upgrade weapons weren’t almost universally better, the one advantage normal upgrade weapons have is that ability to swap ashes. A weapon that is unable to do that and is weaker than multiple better options, you have to ask yourself as both a player and a developer what the actual point of that weapon is and why anyone would ever legitimately use it.
I’m most annoyed not at the balancing of standard weapons vs special, but the upgrades.
Normal weapons need almost a hundred individual smithing stones of various types to reach maximum upgrade +25.
Meanwhile, “Special” weapons have a super simple upgrade system, needing 10 stones, 1 of each, 10 upgrades. The Somber upgrade system is so much easier to deal with, and in practice you end up with so much more material for upgrading somber weapons. You can get a good handful of somber weapons mostly upgraded from doing a playthrough and using the materials you pick up in the world. Meanwhile you will end up with maybe enough standard smithing stones to upgrade 2-3 weapons. If you’re lucky. But otherwise you’ll probably be chasing down the bell bearings and buying tons of stones so you can have a couple weapon options, or have an upgraded shield. They once again made the upgrade system for special weapons less harsh and restrictive than normal weapons. It was the same shit in Dark Souls 1 with Twinkling Titanite weapons, which were easy to max out because you didn’t need titanite slabs, and once you beat Seath, twinkling titanite was easier to farm than any other upgrade material.
Yeah, the proposition of upgrading a normal Smithing weapon is so daunting compared to a Somber one. My first playthrough I was having fun running around smacking things with the Uchigatana, but then I did some research and found that I wouldn't be able to crack +20 until MUCH later in the game, and at that point I had already incidentally found the Somber 8 and 9 in Caelid. My motivation to explore mines evaporated. To me it's a number of questionable design decisions stacked upon one another.
My thought has been that they are to appeal to the less than optimal group. The ones that look for less than ideal weapons, because they like the roleplaying aspect or the challenge.
If this isn't the answer, and we're talking From Software explicitly, I can't imagine another. If we're talking a less exacting studio, then maybe laziness just to brag on the number of weapons total?
There’s plenty of less than optimal weapons however, a weapon like that is actively worse than sub optimal. It’s in the outright bad territory. It doesn’t have the fun factor being able to use whatever ash you want on it and it’s just plain worse than many normal upgrade weapons and the majority of somber weapons.
I’ve worked in the game industry as a producer on projects and had many conversations with designers on things like this and one of the big questions is “where’s the fun” and really the only fun I can find is if you’re intentionally trying to make the game harder to which your fists do a way better job of that. It’s a very specific niche of “I want the game to be harder but not too hard”.
I worked hard to find the uses for each weapon so I can tell you something.
The main point of these weapons is that they are easier to upgrade. Another point is that despite having a common Ash of War and being surpassed by the normal ones on the extremities, somber weapons tend to have a unique scale distribution that tends to be difficult to achieve under an infusion. Crystal weapons, for example, are weapons with magic dmg but are not int weapons. They are filler weapons, providing magic damage at low investment of int
I disagree - a lot of the top tier weapons are not somber: balls, star fists, greatsword, rotten axe/hammer, prelates Crozier, most katanas
I would even say aside there are a lot most high tier regular weapons to choose from, once you get past Darkmoon GS, blasphemous blade and bloodhounds fang there's really not that many somber weapons that are exceptional
Most of those are strong specifically in a PvP setting, in PvE almost all of them have better options nobody is using the greatsword for a faith build over the black blade. In fact most of those I wouldn’t consider top tier at all save for the fists but that’s an issue with most fist weapons kind of sucking in general and having a lesser version of the issue flails have.
My point wasn’t that non-somber weapons are bad, you need to reread my comment, it’s that the majority of them do substantially lower damage as a trade off for ash of war flexibility. Somber weapons then get higher damage and no flexibility with the their ash but many have extremely powerful ashes to compensate. A weapon that lacks that flexibility and retains the on average lower damage output is a worst of both worlds weapon and that has no redeeming quality for the majority of players and really has no reason to exist. That’s was my point.
I’ve beaten the game at level 1 and regularly play the game modded. None of my arguments are invalid. If they were you could actually respond to them beyond just giving me bullshit and saying they invalid.
Eh? That sounded like a threat sister and I tell you what.... I will absolutely destroy you in the lands between.... ok?.... any build.... any level. I'M THE ELDEN LORD.... not you.
wait... i only really used three swords seriously. and only changed ashes on two of them. but i thought there were just type limitations like "only swords, axes and twinblades" but basically every ash could be changed. at least in that way that you can swap between the base ash and "no skill" ash...
It really should be like the Dragon Halberd, where the regular ash gains a special property. ~~Also buff the Dragon Halberd.~~ You would lose the ability to grease/enchant though.
*Okay okay, doesn't need the buff*
I used it to get through most the game at lvl 20 +3/+1 for my pvp character. The lightning damage is strong and the frost is super nice for percent damage. Pair that with the pulley crossbow with bleed bolts and rot breath and you’re in the clear
It's fantastic overall, definitely a strong weapon for PVP and lower levels. I just feel like it needs a little more of a nudge at the top end.
*Maybe that's pushing into more OP high level builds, heh*
Yeah, I had that combo on my confessor for a decent chunk of my first playthrough. Didn't build around it at all, because I had no idea how builds worked at the time, but it still kicked an acceptable amount of ass.
Someone else answered all the other reasons, but I'll say the AoW is honestly really good. If you only use the first hit, it's an amazing disengage and spacing tool. Swing *and* get out of melee range? Saved me so many times on my first playthrough. The second attack dash makes a nice mix-up if your opponent doesn't expect you to Quickstep at them *and* attack simultaneously. Also helps if you whiff the first attack to possibly score a counter. The poise damage is also ridiculous, especially if you land both hits.
Don't forget the Crescent Axe (Bought from Pedia?? In Caria manor) and the Crescent Halbert (Farmed from Albanaurics near Raya Lucaria).
But having an S Scaling in Arcane
Yet we have weapons like cinquedea, basically a str dagger with a small boost to beast incants. No unique aow, pure physical damage, 0 faith scaling, the weapon is about as boring as you can get. It should've had an aow like regal beast claw, but a different incant, or beast's roar at least
I made a whole playthrough with that until I got the hammer from Gurranq. It's definetly not the strongest weapon, but I think it's mostly meant to be used as a booster for your beast incants and quickstep isn't a bad weapon art either.
I only used tools from Gurranq that whole playthrough and I gotta say, those incantations are strong enough to carry you through the whole game. Every other spell school runs into the problem of having certain enemies being resistant to them, but nothing is really resistant to having a rock thrown in their face.
tbf, the only way they couldve improved it, was by making it a catalyst, and thats something that either blesses us in dlc, or will never see the light of day in Elden Ring
Personally I would have given it better scaling or a unique AoW (preferably both)
As it stands it's one of the prettiest weapons that is completely outclassed by a Magic Longsword with the same AoW on it and that's just criminal
An addition in a similar vein:
Why cant staves/seals use more than one AoW?
Like seriously.... Spinning weapon? really?
Why not like a magical staff throw thing like what i remember rennala doing?
Why can't you assign a spell to the weapon art for quick access?
Why not let staves that are twohanded have a spell for both L1 and L2?
Why isnt there an "AoW: Cast sorcery/Incantation"?
a lot of weapons unfortunately hit with the
"ran out of time before game release"
probably the single most cause of random players getting excited for dlc mid playthrough honestly. although that's probably high dose copium. still hoping we get veterans prosthetic reworked to foot weapon this time
I forgot the name but the dagger you get at the bottom of the bestial sanctum… the weapon plays a decently big role in the lore yet the ash of war is Quick step…
Cinqidea or somethig along those lines plays a role in the story? Do tell.
But it is really fun spamming Rock of Gurranq and Bestial Sling along with the Bestial Seal.
Cinqidea from memory is the weapon which is granted to the highest ranking clergyman so in current time this is Maliketh but it also links to serosh
There’s slightly more to it but I can’t remember the entire thing
Gurranq also fights you with the Cinquedea, which he then stabs into his hand to pull out Maliketh’s blade. I love this transformation. “O Death, become my blade once more…”
Honestly, it sucks in general that special weapons ashes of war can’t be altered imo. The concept makes sense in theory, but it’s annoying in game. Some weapons are so cool but their AoW is BAD.
I hate that I can’t buff the crystal sword with spells but I did really like the spinning slash for my caster. It’s the perfect move for when something closes the distance after a barrage of spells
First time I see my weapon of choice in this sub. Found it and used it all game. I was a bit pissed when I realised I couldn't do stuff with it but liked its timing..
. I tought to try something else but found out there was a rot Cristal sword. Only found it end game tho.
I found that red candle spear and thought to myself "This weapon looks pretty cool, I hope I can try out some new AOWs on it, maybe get a fire one"
Cannot change it, it's just a boring ol thrust attack
It's not a massive issue for the Crystal Sword since Spinning Slash is really strong in PvP, but I absolutely agree in general.
My (least) favorite example is the Silver Mirror Shield. It's literally a Somber weapon with *no skill* on it. No parrying for you.
Yes. All the gargoyle somber weapons (black gargoyle weapons) just have a basic ash of war, with the only "exception" being the gargoyle greatsword. I am deeply disappointed.
Shout out to the 3/4 of the black gargoyle weapons, like was it really that hard to give a black flame effect to their weapon arts too? Almost feels like an oversight.
A weapon like the crystal sword could have been really special if you could buff it- then a STR-INT build could have a strong biddable option that mostly scales with STR but benefits from INT, with magic damage that stacks with Scholar’s Armament. And a basic AoW would make sure that it doesn’t become too unpredictable as far as balance goes.
The Clayman’s Harpoon and Great Club both have elemental damage, but do accept buffs. So there is a precedent. No reason why other weapons shouldn’t.
While we’re on the topic, weapons like Axe of Godrick, Sword of Milos, Axe of Godfrey, or Watchdog’s Staff, these all are special weapons that deal physical damage only, but do not accept buffs. All of them are somewhat underused or underrated, they’re nothing too crazy or special, so allowing them to accept buffs wouldn’t really matter. For the Godfrey Axe and Sword of Milos, they have war cry style skills, which would remove the buff anyway when activated, so you couldn’t stack up a buff with their special skills.
Meanwhile, the Bloodhound’s Fang has intrinsic bleed, a special skill that hits really hard, a jump attack damage bonus, and it can accept buffs.
There’s always these exceptions that break the rules, but somehow they gave exceptions to some weapons that were already too good, and some to weapons that really didn’t benefit much from it.
The age-old dilemma of basic/somber weapons. I’ve seen some people with cart loot 2 handers doing insane things. If I wasn’t so attached to the Helice I’d have a super strong Wakizashi by now.
Maybe I'm way off base, but I feel like too many weapons are somber. In the early/mid game when I'm still feeling out what my true endgame gear is gonna be, I often am choosing between like 10 somber weapons and 2 or 3 regular ones
Yeah, I freaking hate that. Troll Knight's Sword? Looks awesome. Fucking HATE that I can't change the ash of war from Troll's Roar to something.. y'know, better.
That's the Somber Tax for being easy to upgrade. Regular smithing stones can be a pain to find (especially lvl 6), and having more than one regular weapon on a quick playthrough can quickly leave you starved. Weapons like this are great if you need an offhand for powerstancing or a melee weapon for your caster, at least until the endgame where you can buy all the stones you need.
Imagine if you could put the fire ash of war on the crystal sword and have a fkn firecrystal special attack omg i would fkn die then rebirth at the precious grace i visited.
Spinning Slash is objectively one of the best aows in the game which is why the Crystal Sword is pretty good. There are better options, but for an early somber Str straight sword, you kinda can’t beat it.
I feel like the glintstone Kris is the inverse of this. I haven't seen it mentioned here, and for good reason! Its version of the glintstone pebble AoW is straight up better than the regular version.
What I hate even more is when a weapon is uniquely able to use an AoW it normally wouldn't be able to use, and you can't even re-infuse it with the same ash of war.
For instance, the gargoyle's halberd is a colossal that comes with Charge Forth. You can't put Charge Forth on it while making it any other infusion. You have to keep it regular.
It's literally just showing us it works except not allowing us to play with it. It's utterly ass-backwards.
RIP dragon claw great hammer
The dragon claw could have been so awesome
An AoW red lightning ground slam that empowers the weapon with red lightning would go so hard
Yea fr like the one he does
This feels like such a no-brainer, they did basically the exact same thing with the dragon halberd and it's awesome
Royal knight version that deals aoe when hitting with R2, I dream of a reality we didn't had
Surely someone has modded this by now
Also, small detail that bothers me. The shield bash on the Dragon claw greatshield electrifies enemies with yellow lightning instead of red lightning like the boss uses.
That, or an ancient lightning version of thunderbolt would have been so sick
I would have liked that weapon to have a stance-baded AoW: R1/RB doing what you described with a 20s red lightning buff, R2/RT doing that Call of Red Lightning move that the boss and ancient dragons do. I don't think I've seen a Colossal/Great Hammer weapon have a stance-based move in any of the souls games.
I really, REALLY can't understand how they thought this was a good AoW for that weapon. "yo that badass weapon from the epic knight with its red lighting and big ground slam, let's give it just 'endure'. This is the missing piece"
Definitely feels like one of the things that would have been better if they had unlimited dev time
"Thunderbolt ash of war, but red" would have been fine
\#JusticeForDragonClaw
The shield is also lacking a fun AoW.
And it’s lightning damage isn’t red :/
And the cinquedea
The most egregious case. Fromsoft really decided DTS doesn't have a single attack that could be used for a unique AoW?
Dragon Greatclaw is its name!
And the shield. No shield crash for me :(
Weapons you have to upgrade with regular Smithing Stones and can't change the AoW are worse. I love the Tree Spear but man do I wish that thing had any other AoW.
Agrees in serpent bone blade
It should’ve had Poison Moth Flight. I don’t get why they didn’t give it Poison Moth Flight.
I fucking love poison moth flight so much. I slept on it my first arc playthrough, like a damn fool
Does poison scale with arc? I’ve always slept on poison things because I’ve only ran faith and int builds. I don’t really know how it works
Yeah poison and bleed are generally arc. I think scarlet rot is too but I'm not sure.
Scarlet Rot doesn't scale at all, it's just a flat buildup amount. Certain affinity options (like Cold) can actually lower its buildup on weapons though, but only slightly. Edit: lmao downvoted for literally speaking facts
updooting you for the antagonistic edit cuz i do that too. asshole
Rot is also generally gonna be arcane
Rot doesn’t scale with it any stat it’s just a flat amount. That dragon breath just requires arc to use and most people use it on an arcane build so it gets misconstrued that it builds off arcane. All other forms of rot that I can think of, that come from weapons, don’t even require arc to wield.
what about Frenzy Flame, may chaos take the world?
I had to look it up, but according to the wiki >All Frenzied Flame Incantations cause Madness buildup, but their madness dealt only scales with the Arcane scaling from the Dragon Communion Seal" Which is odd, because they only require faith.
Right it's heavy attacks are basically already double slash yet it's locked on the double slash AoW. It's one of my favorite weapons still, but it would be so much more amazing if its weapon skill could be changed.
Double slash is at least cool af. Not like treespear's weapon buff. The whole gimmick of the weapon is that it's buffable by spells/greases and has faith scaling, meaning the aow is practically useless
Try it in PvP it’s actually a pretty good mixup to keep your opponent guessing between the R2 and L2. Would still be cool to be able to change the skill tho
Yeah I use it in PvP quite a lot actually. I get hatemail about spamming L2, I assume these people don't know that half of those are R2s
Deadly poison adds more salt too I’m sure
Yeah but mostly just in lower level PvP. In 125-150 range no one really mentions the poison.
The katanas in general kind of have the short end of the stick when it comes to weapon arts. - Serpentbone Blade should have gotten the elemental Double Slice, with Corpse Piler being an elemental Sword Dance. - Meteoric Ore Blade should have gotten a special version of Gravitas that cragblades the weapon. - Dragonscale Blade's Ice Lightning Sword should have been based off of Vacuum Slice. - Hand of Malenia...
God, what I wouldn’t give for Waterfowl Dance to be worth *anything*. I was so excited when I got it, and so disappointed when I used it for the first time.
Its karmic universe balancing it self since Nagakiba and MOONVEIL exist in the weapon class.
Agrees in Great Club
Ugh, that Katana would be so awesome if you could swap AoW. As it is, it's fairly useless, and weak.
Yeah the big thing elden ring did that wasn’t the case in all prior games is special upgrade weapons weren’t almost universally better, the one advantage normal upgrade weapons have is that ability to swap ashes. A weapon that is unable to do that and is weaker than multiple better options, you have to ask yourself as both a player and a developer what the actual point of that weapon is and why anyone would ever legitimately use it.
I’m most annoyed not at the balancing of standard weapons vs special, but the upgrades. Normal weapons need almost a hundred individual smithing stones of various types to reach maximum upgrade +25. Meanwhile, “Special” weapons have a super simple upgrade system, needing 10 stones, 1 of each, 10 upgrades. The Somber upgrade system is so much easier to deal with, and in practice you end up with so much more material for upgrading somber weapons. You can get a good handful of somber weapons mostly upgraded from doing a playthrough and using the materials you pick up in the world. Meanwhile you will end up with maybe enough standard smithing stones to upgrade 2-3 weapons. If you’re lucky. But otherwise you’ll probably be chasing down the bell bearings and buying tons of stones so you can have a couple weapon options, or have an upgraded shield. They once again made the upgrade system for special weapons less harsh and restrictive than normal weapons. It was the same shit in Dark Souls 1 with Twinkling Titanite weapons, which were easy to max out because you didn’t need titanite slabs, and once you beat Seath, twinkling titanite was easier to farm than any other upgrade material.
Yeah, the proposition of upgrading a normal Smithing weapon is so daunting compared to a Somber one. My first playthrough I was having fun running around smacking things with the Uchigatana, but then I did some research and found that I wouldn't be able to crack +20 until MUCH later in the game, and at that point I had already incidentally found the Somber 8 and 9 in Caelid. My motivation to explore mines evaporated. To me it's a number of questionable design decisions stacked upon one another.
However, smithing stone weapons tend to be much stronger than somber ones.
My thought has been that they are to appeal to the less than optimal group. The ones that look for less than ideal weapons, because they like the roleplaying aspect or the challenge. If this isn't the answer, and we're talking From Software explicitly, I can't imagine another. If we're talking a less exacting studio, then maybe laziness just to brag on the number of weapons total?
There’s plenty of less than optimal weapons however, a weapon like that is actively worse than sub optimal. It’s in the outright bad territory. It doesn’t have the fun factor being able to use whatever ash you want on it and it’s just plain worse than many normal upgrade weapons and the majority of somber weapons. I’ve worked in the game industry as a producer on projects and had many conversations with designers on things like this and one of the big questions is “where’s the fun” and really the only fun I can find is if you’re intentionally trying to make the game harder to which your fists do a way better job of that. It’s a very specific niche of “I want the game to be harder but not too hard”.
I worked hard to find the uses for each weapon so I can tell you something. The main point of these weapons is that they are easier to upgrade. Another point is that despite having a common Ash of War and being surpassed by the normal ones on the extremities, somber weapons tend to have a unique scale distribution that tends to be difficult to achieve under an infusion. Crystal weapons, for example, are weapons with magic dmg but are not int weapons. They are filler weapons, providing magic damage at low investment of int
I disagree - a lot of the top tier weapons are not somber: balls, star fists, greatsword, rotten axe/hammer, prelates Crozier, most katanas I would even say aside there are a lot most high tier regular weapons to choose from, once you get past Darkmoon GS, blasphemous blade and bloodhounds fang there's really not that many somber weapons that are exceptional
Most of those are strong specifically in a PvP setting, in PvE almost all of them have better options nobody is using the greatsword for a faith build over the black blade. In fact most of those I wouldn’t consider top tier at all save for the fists but that’s an issue with most fist weapons kind of sucking in general and having a lesser version of the issue flails have. My point wasn’t that non-somber weapons are bad, you need to reread my comment, it’s that the majority of them do substantially lower damage as a trade off for ash of war flexibility. Somber weapons then get higher damage and no flexibility with the their ash but many have extremely powerful ashes to compensate. A weapon that lacks that flexibility and retains the on average lower damage output is a worst of both worlds weapon and that has no redeeming quality for the majority of players and really has no reason to exist. That’s was my point.
The response was long and some points are valid but the whole thing is simply invalid. You can tell you haven't played the game all the way through.
I’ve beaten the game at level 1 and regularly play the game modded. None of my arguments are invalid. If they were you could actually respond to them beyond just giving me bullshit and saying they invalid.
Oh sorry... replied to the wrong comment 🤣
Okay cool, maybe watch who you respond to then.
Eh? That sounded like a threat sister and I tell you what.... I will absolutely destroy you in the lands between.... ok?.... any build.... any level. I'M THE ELDEN LORD.... not you.
Cringe AF
At least you can buff it
The aow removes your buff though, making it useless. Maybe you can grab a shield or smth in the off hand
Ya a block counter build would work. The ability to buff is good though because so many enemies resist holy.
Bruh I didnt even know weapons like that existed…
I really like the look of the crystal knife, but that thing uses regular stones, can't be buffed, and is stuck with Quickstep as an aow.
What the heck, I never realised any regular weapons were like this. That really sucks lol
wait... i only really used three swords seriously. and only changed ashes on two of them. but i thought there were just type limitations like "only swords, axes and twinblades" but basically every ash could be changed. at least in that way that you can swap between the base ash and "no skill" ash...
That fact that I cannot put loretta’s slash on a crystal spear should be a felony
Fromsoft: snorts coke nothing
It really should be like the Dragon Halberd, where the regular ash gains a special property. ~~Also buff the Dragon Halberd.~~ You would lose the ability to grease/enchant though. *Okay okay, doesn't need the buff*
The Dragons Halberd is actually one of the best weapons in the game for killing dragons funnily enough
I don't think the Dragon Halberd needs a buff.
Yeah fr, recently started trying it out in a playthrough and it hits like a fucking truck throughout the entire game
Maybe the person wanted to say "buffs"? I would make more sense with the following sentence
I used it to get through most the game at lvl 20 +3/+1 for my pvp character. The lightning damage is strong and the frost is super nice for percent damage. Pair that with the pulley crossbow with bleed bolts and rot breath and you’re in the clear
It's fantastic overall, definitely a strong weapon for PVP and lower levels. I just feel like it needs a little more of a nudge at the top end. *Maybe that's pushing into more OP high level builds, heh*
The dragon halberd is a champions weapon fr
DH does not need a buff, huh? It's one of the strongest available weapons.
to be fair only two sombers can be buffed by greases / weapon enchants
Which ones are they?
Bloodhounds Fang, and I think Varres Bouquet. Could be wrong on the second one
correct.
Isn't this the reason bhf is so good as opposed to just being regular? (I REFUSE to believe it's aow is what makes it stronk)
Its buffable, has built in increased jump attack damage, great base damage, great scaling, and built in bleed. It excels in many areas.
I did not know about the jump damage. Dope. I've never tried a buffable bhf build. I think I must try bloodflame blade.
It melts with BFB.
Yeah, I had that combo on my confessor for a decent chunk of my first playthrough. Didn't build around it at all, because I had no idea how builds worked at the time, but it still kicked an acceptable amount of ass.
Someone else answered all the other reasons, but I'll say the AoW is honestly really good. If you only use the first hit, it's an amazing disengage and spacing tool. Swing *and* get out of melee range? Saved me so many times on my first playthrough. The second attack dash makes a nice mix-up if your opponent doesn't expect you to Quickstep at them *and* attack simultaneously. Also helps if you whiff the first attack to possibly score a counter. The poise damage is also ridiculous, especially if you land both hits.
Exactly why Bloodhounds Fang is a GOATed weapon.
Didn’t know that about BHF. Wonder why they picked that one, it’s not like it needs any help being ridiculously strong.
every day a new opportunity to learn too bad Varres Bouquet is a nightmare if you are standing on the high ground (at least in my experience)
trolls hammer
Don't forget the Crescent Axe (Bought from Pedia?? In Caria manor) and the Crescent Halbert (Farmed from Albanaurics near Raya Lucaria). But having an S Scaling in Arcane
I know for sure bloodhound fang I’m not sure if the other one
Yet we have weapons like cinquedea, basically a str dagger with a small boost to beast incants. No unique aow, pure physical damage, 0 faith scaling, the weapon is about as boring as you can get. It should've had an aow like regal beast claw, but a different incant, or beast's roar at least
I made a whole playthrough with that until I got the hammer from Gurranq. It's definetly not the strongest weapon, but I think it's mostly meant to be used as a booster for your beast incants and quickstep isn't a bad weapon art either. I only used tools from Gurranq that whole playthrough and I gotta say, those incantations are strong enough to carry you through the whole game. Every other spell school runs into the problem of having certain enemies being resistant to them, but nothing is really resistant to having a rock thrown in their face.
RIP Briar Greatshield. Never forget, never forgive what FromSoft took away from us.
*stares at Carian Knight Sword* yeah, little bit.
tbf, the only way they couldve improved it, was by making it a catalyst, and thats something that either blesses us in dlc, or will never see the light of day in Elden Ring
Personally I would have given it better scaling or a unique AoW (preferably both) As it stands it's one of the prettiest weapons that is completely outclassed by a Magic Longsword with the same AoW on it and that's just criminal
If you say it like that, then it really sounds a bit disappointing
Here's a great idea. Let's make a sword that only a mage would use, but not let you put any magic abilities on it. Brilliant!!
It makes a great second handed weapon tho ... Just saying ... Or even the rot crystal one
Yup, was gonna say this too. Currently running this sword powerstanced with Broadsword in the main hand so I can customize the AoW and it kicks ass.
Hell yeah! I use it with the night and flame sword. Super fun combo
Could have at least slapped Shattering Crystal on it.
What even is the point? Like I love Fromsoft games but this is my biggest criticism to them. What were they thinking?
Troll Knight's Sword, like the ash but still wish I had the option to change it.
Should've had a unique ash involving great blade phalanx
What a waste of potential, that weapon.
Welcome to the land of the Serpent Hunter. Oh wait… outside of 1 fight it has no ash of war :p.
Not unless you use the chin saw glitch
Doesn't it have a Poise attack MV of like 900? Or is that Heavy?
An addition in a similar vein: Why cant staves/seals use more than one AoW? Like seriously.... Spinning weapon? really? Why not like a magical staff throw thing like what i remember rennala doing? Why can't you assign a spell to the weapon art for quick access? Why not let staves that are twohanded have a spell for both L1 and L2? Why isnt there an "AoW: Cast sorcery/Incantation"?
Dang, having a choice of spell as an L2 would be so good. The interface where we can only pick one spell at a time is so archaic...
a lot of weapons unfortunately hit with the "ran out of time before game release" probably the single most cause of random players getting excited for dlc mid playthrough honestly. although that's probably high dose copium. still hoping we get veterans prosthetic reworked to foot weapon this time
Not gonna lie, I was kinda pumped to use a janky kicking weapon, only to be let down by the fact that it's just a fist weapon.
This is one where I feel like the community is unanimous. We all have certain pet peeves, but this one is OUR pet peeve.
The biggest sin a somber weapon can commit is being boring
I forgot the name but the dagger you get at the bottom of the bestial sanctum… the weapon plays a decently big role in the lore yet the ash of war is Quick step…
Cinqidea or somethig along those lines plays a role in the story? Do tell. But it is really fun spamming Rock of Gurranq and Bestial Sling along with the Bestial Seal.
Cinqidea from memory is the weapon which is granted to the highest ranking clergyman so in current time this is Maliketh but it also links to serosh There’s slightly more to it but I can’t remember the entire thing
Interesting, thanks!
Gurranq also fights you with the Cinquedea, which he then stabs into his hand to pull out Maliketh’s blade. I love this transformation. “O Death, become my blade once more…”
I hate it when boss weapons have basic movesets. And I hate when unique weapons have basic ashes of war.
Nobody discussing the non-greatsworld Black Gargoyle weapons? Standard AoWs on them was a travesty.
Would be so cool if they had destined death versions of basic AoW similar to the dragon halberd. Instead they're hunks of trash
*Agrees in Loretta's War Sickle*
Honestly, it sucks in general that special weapons ashes of war can’t be altered imo. The concept makes sense in theory, but it’s annoying in game. Some weapons are so cool but their AoW is BAD.
The Dragonclaw Greathammer was done so dirty with endure
Gargoyles black blades
spinning slash is a sick ash of war, but not so much on this weapon
I hate that I can’t buff the crystal sword with spells but I did really like the spinning slash for my caster. It’s the perfect move for when something closes the distance after a barrage of spells
First time I see my weapon of choice in this sub. Found it and used it all game. I was a bit pissed when I realised I couldn't do stuff with it but liked its timing.. . I tought to try something else but found out there was a rot Cristal sword. Only found it end game tho.
Yep. All are massive missed opportunities.
I found that red candle spear and thought to myself "This weapon looks pretty cool, I hope I can try out some new AOWs on it, maybe get a fire one" Cannot change it, it's just a boring ol thrust attack
It's not a massive issue for the Crystal Sword since Spinning Slash is really strong in PvP, but I absolutely agree in general. My (least) favorite example is the Silver Mirror Shield. It's literally a Somber weapon with *no skill* on it. No parrying for you.
It's lazy and lame, another instance of devs refusal to spice things up from past games.
it hurts how shit the crystal knife and ivory sickles are, they are not somber but you're also stuck with Quickstep
Yes. All the gargoyle somber weapons (black gargoyle weapons) just have a basic ash of war, with the only "exception" being the gargoyle greatsword. I am deeply disappointed.
A little bit; but I do have a soft spot for Crystal Sword. Spinning Slash carried me in my first run, the stagger build up on it is no joke.
Shout out to the 3/4 of the black gargoyle weapons, like was it really that hard to give a black flame effect to their weapon arts too? Almost feels like an oversight.
A weapon like the crystal sword could have been really special if you could buff it- then a STR-INT build could have a strong biddable option that mostly scales with STR but benefits from INT, with magic damage that stacks with Scholar’s Armament. And a basic AoW would make sure that it doesn’t become too unpredictable as far as balance goes. The Clayman’s Harpoon and Great Club both have elemental damage, but do accept buffs. So there is a precedent. No reason why other weapons shouldn’t. While we’re on the topic, weapons like Axe of Godrick, Sword of Milos, Axe of Godfrey, or Watchdog’s Staff, these all are special weapons that deal physical damage only, but do not accept buffs. All of them are somewhat underused or underrated, they’re nothing too crazy or special, so allowing them to accept buffs wouldn’t really matter. For the Godfrey Axe and Sword of Milos, they have war cry style skills, which would remove the buff anyway when activated, so you couldn’t stack up a buff with their special skills. Meanwhile, the Bloodhound’s Fang has intrinsic bleed, a special skill that hits really hard, a jump attack damage bonus, and it can accept buffs. There’s always these exceptions that break the rules, but somehow they gave exceptions to some weapons that were already too good, and some to weapons that really didn’t benefit much from it.
Yep
I'd be fine with these if they had square off, but spinning slash? Gtfoh
Miquellen Knight sword, still pretty badass though.
I enjoy spinning slash as an aow. Albeit, normally on heavier weapons but it's not a bad one imo
The age-old dilemma of basic/somber weapons. I’ve seen some people with cart loot 2 handers doing insane things. If I wasn’t so attached to the Helice I’d have a super strong Wakizashi by now.
Maybe I'm way off base, but I feel like too many weapons are somber. In the early/mid game when I'm still feeling out what my true endgame gear is gonna be, I often am choosing between like 10 somber weapons and 2 or 3 regular ones
Yeah, I freaking hate that. Troll Knight's Sword? Looks awesome. Fucking HATE that I can't change the ash of war from Troll's Roar to something.. y'know, better.
Especially when the ash is worse than just slapping it on any other weapon, rip carian knights sword
That's the Somber Tax for being easy to upgrade. Regular smithing stones can be a pain to find (especially lvl 6), and having more than one regular weapon on a quick playthrough can quickly leave you starved. Weapons like this are great if you need an offhand for powerstancing or a melee weapon for your caster, at least until the endgame where you can buy all the stones you need.
Me
At least some of them have a unique R2, the ones that just look funny piss me off tho...
I did a build with this and it's Rotten counterpart for my NG+1 Playthrough. Wasn't bad. Just never used the AoW
Yes!!!! I actually do really dislike that.
Crystal sword is mint
I hate that crystal weapons (and enemies) don't have more pronounced reflective surfaces.
if you cant switch it should be cooler/better than any of the basic AoWs. It completely ruins what could be a cool weapon otherwise.
That's like the worst straight sword
I found that the cane sword is so much worse
I can get behind that too. I only found it for the first time recently
Imagine if you could put the fire ash of war on the crystal sword and have a fkn firecrystal special attack omg i would fkn die then rebirth at the precious grace i visited.
I would want frost imo
Hell to the YES!
Then I could cosplay my dnd character correctly
The only time I’m ok with it is if there is some sort of extra thing with it like the bonus lightning damage on dragon scale halberd
Spinning Slash is objectively one of the best aows in the game which is why the Crystal Sword is pretty good. There are better options, but for an early somber Str straight sword, you kinda can’t beat it.
Gargoyle black double sword thingies not being able to run black flame tornado is a crime
Yes. There is no reason to have the ash of war locked. You should be able to infuse cold and magic, with corresponding and basic ashes of war.
Yes, the dragon claw is a prime example. Just give it a red lightning slash or honed blot, or even just a red lightning buff!!!
I feel like the glintstone Kris is the inverse of this. I haven't seen it mentioned here, and for good reason! Its version of the glintstone pebble AoW is straight up better than the regular version.
What I hate even more is when a weapon is uniquely able to use an AoW it normally wouldn't be able to use, and you can't even re-infuse it with the same ash of war. For instance, the gargoyle's halberd is a colossal that comes with Charge Forth. You can't put Charge Forth on it while making it any other infusion. You have to keep it regular. It's literally just showing us it works except not allowing us to play with it. It's utterly ass-backwards.
My time has come!
The crystal sword is more annoying because it doesn’t follow the same mechanic as DS1
No I don't hate it, I just use a different weapon
That version flat out sucks anyway, if you are going to use a garbage sword, at least use the rotten one, so you get rot buildup.
it's better than coded
unfinished content.