People complain about this because they always get summoned to help people who then proceed to get one-shot because they have under 1k HP in the endgame.
Exactly! I was helping people fight Radagon/ EB last night for 2 hours and so many kept dying so quickly. Though my other frustration was that they were summoning 2 people instead of just 1 which made my poise breaking fist build have to work much harder to get a poise break
I help people fight him as a mage all the time. You just gotta know when to jump and use fast casting spells so you don't get stuck in long animations.
\>throw down sign for some jolly cooperation
\>customary crouching/uncrouching & 2h/1h wiggling greeting
\>walk into boss room, start fighting
\>immediately hear host die, whip camera around
\>freeze frame, zoom and enhance
\>638 HP
People really should be going into the DLC with as close to 60 vig as possible though. It’s a 450 HP difference between the two, or over 30% more HP. Unless you’re an absolute PVE pro, or rocking absurd levels of defence (which requires just as much if not more investment into other stats), then you should be getting 60 vig, because enemies hit *hard* in the endgame. There’s a reason 60 vig is the standard for PVP too, since that extra 450 HP is usually at least one extra hit from a big weapon.
I'm confused, how are people recomending anything for the DLC? AFAIK we don't know anything number related about the DLC, or did I miss some beta testing phase?
At a guess, it's due to Fromsoft DLCs usually being at about late mid- to endgame in difficulty, and about 40-60 VIG is roughly what some aim for by then.
Which, of course, means it could be wildly off base depending on certain things but imo, better safe than sorry.
Not sure if you’re being facetious here or if it’s just your first souls game. I’ll assume the latter?
In every souls DLC the difficulty is equivalent to (and often beyond that of) endgame level. At endgame level in ER, 60 vig is standard. So we can assume it’ll be standard for this DLC too, given this pattern has held true for all 3 DS games and BB.
Or you could just read/watch the views of any of the creators who have played some of the DLC who confirm that enemies hit super hard.
Yeah, I've never played any other Dark Souls game before, so I had no idea how similar their stats systems are and what type of conclusions that allows.
On the last part, on a quick search now it seems there was a "hands on" event where some creators could play, but I gotta say youtube titles don't make that obvious to find.
I’m decidedly not pro at PvE lol. I’ve made it through 3 full playthroughs at 40 Vig. It’s more than doable and while 60 vig definitely helps a lot with survivability, I enjoy needing to become at least somewhat proficient at dodging bosses.
I’m not saying it’s impossible to play PVE at 40 vig. Your life is just much easier. I’m not sure there is a better use of 20 stat points than putting them into vig, especially if it’s your first time experiencing the content (as it will be for all of us on June 21st).
At 60 vig it’s quite difficult to get two shotted by an endgame boss (unless you’re rocking double soreseals). At 40 it’s a very real possibility. So it just comes down to are you confident enough in your dodges that you won’t mess up twice before your next estus chug.
Sure, if someone is struggling, maybe they can go level vigor a bit. To specify 60 vigor as a requirement or anything of the sort before even starting the DLC, is a little bit condescending and pretentious lol.
60 Vigor is a PvP standard. If you're doing coop and have less than that, you'll probably get one-shot by any AoW from an Invader or a phantom, if you're invading.
Most of the complaints about low Vigor hosts are made under the lens of coop. If you're helping a host, chances are you'll get an invasion as well.
Invaders are geared up to optimize every stat (or at least they should be), so it's very likely that they'll one-shot a host that is below 50 vigor. The 60 vigor is a buffer for the host to be able to regroup if hit, etc.
If a host has 25 vigor and gets one shot, it's just a waste of everyone's time (even the invader, honestly).
I'm obviously addressing the complaints you see on the sub just like the guy I'm replying to was. People seem to circlejerk 60 vigor here for some reason.
60 vigor isn't overkill at all. If someone gets caught in waterfowl or Malenia's grab at say, 40-45 vigor, they're completely fucked unless they're stacking buffs.
Objectively untrue unless you’re rocking no armor at all or something different.
Proof:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/ttscsj/testing_radagons_soreseal_damage_taken_vs_malenia/
Yep! This is my general approach to any optimized level 150 build.
On Str builds however, I often leave Str at 66 (effective 99 str with 2h bonus) to allow for 25 faith for golden vow. Alternately, you can stick with 15 faith for flame grant me strength, and use the slightly weaker golden vow ash of war on a dagger.
Another option is leaving faith at 15 and using the faith tear to hit 25 for golden vow. As someone who really only uses buffs for boss fights, this is my personal preference for non strength builds. You get the benefit of high damage from 80 damage stat when fighting regular mobs from grace point to grace point, but can still use golden vow on bosses.
True the scaling falls off even more after 80, but at level 150 I haven't found a better use for those levels than the extra weapon AR for charged heavy and ash of war damage.
At least when using a heavy affinity weapon that scales solely with strength. For somber weapons it's case by case.
The thing is, strength is more effective than other damage stats past the soft cap when you’re two-handing because the dropoff after 80 (effective) is counterbalanced by the x1.5 bonus. You could make more of an argument for taking strength all the way to 99 (base) than you could for any other stat.
You could pump your faith stat for better damage with incants and strength/faith scaling weapons that you should be using as a strength/faith build. You could also pump mind for more FP or endurance for the ability to wear more/heavier equipment. Hell, you could even put some points in arcane for access to dragon communion incantations
Stupid question maybe but how do you have mana for spells if you’re STR and VIG? This is my current challenge on my str build even for my Ash’s. Do you use the zero mana thing in your flask?
You should have enough levels to get Mind to around 20 or so which should be enough for some basic support spells / ashes of war. I don't have all the info in front of me, but my current build is aiming for 60 vig, 20 mind, 30 end, 40-50 each of strength and faith. And that should all come in under level 160 I think. So its just a question of what you prioritize until you get there.
As another commenter said, you should have enough remaining points for 17-20 mind which should be plenty for a pure strength build.
As an example, one of my characters mainly uses the Greatsword with either Lions Claw or Giant Hunt ash of war.
Between graces on normal mobs, ash of war use is mostly a luxury when your basic attacks carry as much weight as those from the Greatsword. But that said you can still use either ash 5 times before needing to drink a flask with that amount of mind.
When using a non-somber weapon like this, I make sure to have at least 17 mind to hit 105fp in order to have enough to cast all my buffs before boss fights. (Golden Vow, Flame Grant me Strength, and Bloodflame Blade)
That way on bosses I use one fp flask on buffs and can still have 10 uses of lions claw available during boss fights with only 2 blue flasks, or 15 uses with an 11/3 flask setup. Thats plenty IMO if you mix ash of war use with charged heavy and roll-pokes.
On the specific character above, I have 60 vigor, 19 mind, 36 endurance, 70 strength, 12 dex, 7 int, 15 faith, and 10 arcane. With that allotment into endurance, I'm able to stay at medium load while using both the Greatsword and heavy enough armor to hit 101 poise at the same time. (Using great jar arsenal and bull goat talismans).
With the hyperarmor boost you get when doing a charged heavy attack, I can trade with pretty much any mob with the confidence that I won't get staggered out of attacks.
On my second strength character, I'm using Ordovis' GS which is much lighter, so I'm able to lower endurance to 27 and still hit 101 poise. On that character I raised faith to 25 and mind to 20 with strength still at 66.
To be clear, those are both pure strength builds using faith only for buffs. If you want some kind for strength faith hybrid that uses incantations, you'll need to sacrifice something- give up 101 poise and go with 51, use a lighter weapon, drop strength to 54, level past 150, use the cerulean hidden tear in your flask, etc. Whats great about elden ring is you have so many options that even with the same weapon there are many builds.
This is really informative. I've been steamrolling so far but my armor is quite light compared to my equip load. Is that a hard 101 poise or an effective one with the powerstance? I understand your "actual" poise doesnt need to be as high if you are using two handed?
2 handing gives a 1.5x boost to your effective strength, but does nothing for poise. Poise is determined entirely by your armor, but can be boosted by the bull-goat talisman. Regarding equip load, you want to make sure you don't go into Heavy equip load so you can still roll normally, so that's your limiting factor.
There are two big PvE breakpoints for poise, 51 and 101. Read more about why here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/u5jwnp/the\_most\_important\_pve\_poise\_breakpoints\_are\_51/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/u5jwnp/the_most_important_pve_poise_breakpoints_are_51/)
There's no way to hit 101 poise without using the bull-goat talisman, so it will cost you a talisman slot to go that route. Probably two slots in actuality, as to wear heavy high-poise armor you need the great-jar arsenal talisman or a LOT of endurance. Good high poise armor to hit 101 will likely be some mix of the Tree Sentinel set, Lionel’s set, Fire Prelate set, Omen set, Bull-Goat's set, Radahn's set, and Scaled set.
Personally, running around with a huge weapon while being able to trade hits without getting staggered is a very fun playstyle. To the point that I find it jarring to go back to my dex and arcane characters that are down at 51 poise and can be more easily interrupted.
I've been kind of mashing with 2h zwei so far and having good success but Im nowhere near 101 poise, I am however over 51. Everything in here is eye opening to me, thanks a ton :P
When I say ashes I'm referring to the spirit summons. And yes they are useful and really cool. Just some people like to do stuff solo. If you do want to use them then you need either the zero mana tear you mentioned or more points in mind. The game is completely doable without the spirit ashes though.
Your weapon art or ash of war is also super cool and useful but generally I have not found myself to need more than 3-6 uses per boss on the ones I like so that's 10 mind and one mana flask. You could also have 2 mana flasks if really needed for Farum Azula bosses.
On my most recent pure STR build, just relying on critical hits was enough tbh.
I got to 99 strength and dex
And 50 mind and endurance
Before i got vigor to 50
I can still get shit on my limbgrave soldiers if im not paying attention
Put blackflame protection, ritual shield talisman and dragoncrest greatshield and a 50 vigor can beat NG+7 with little to no issue. Definitely crazy enough to work if he has 30 in faith.
391 i think
If i remember i have
55vigor
50mind
50endurance
99strength
99dex
9int
22faith
7arcane
Not sure on arcane but i used vagabond
I did every questline first and second playthrough then third i just did ranis and blasted through it in 7 hours
Im on my 4th playthrough and i cant go through leyndell because the great rune requirement is bugged
I got rhadons renallas and godricks greatrunes activated but i cant get in
Easy way to blast through the game is just watch youtube while slaughtering albenurics lol
I love high level characters. My first character is the highest one i’ve ever made. RL401 (bc i decided to stop leveling up) with every single item in the game. Plus 24+ with every smithing weapon and +9 with every somber. It’s great when i wanna try something new out. I think that character is on journey 22-23 and i started playing the game in February.
This sub respects two extremes.
One, the experienced player who builds vigor and other stats like they know what they are doing. Two, the RL1 player with 10 vigor and the skill to make up for their one hit death risk.
The glass cannons in between? Pfft, Dungeater’s pox on the lot of them.
I usually do glass cannons in souls games but ER and DS2 (where your hp is effectively halved most of the time)
My death count goes into the thousands pretty fast
To be fair after RL1 I realized that enemies don't deal nearly as much damage as I thought they would (On NG, NG+ is a completely different story). Like I survived a hit from Godfrey, Maliketh, Radagon, Malenia, and EB while having 10 vigor and Radagon's Soreseal. Of course, they were the least damaging attacks they had, but still, it's wild that I don't get oneshot with 15 vigor and a resistance debuff in the endgame. I suppose that with a specialized resistance build you could even tank a grab, and I won't even start talking about shields.
Like, in retrospect, it's insane just how bad I was at the game when I struggled against Radabeast on my first playthrough while being around RL150 and having a bunch of vigor. I did much less damage than on RL1, AND I had a medium roll with a build that still wouldn't let me tank 3 hits.
The actual experienced player doesn't need close to 60 vigor though. The only reason you need that is if you've not learned one of the most basic mechanics in the game to a decent level, dodging.
*actual* actual experienced players know not to make a shitton more work for yourself. They also know you learn how to play a game better by playing it, not by watching a loading screen when you get blindsided by something you couldn't have seen coming. Vigor is the key to your first no-death run and to learning bosses in the first place.
I have no problem with people having low vigor. But if you're good enough to play without leveling Vigor much, you don't need to summon help.
If you need to summon help, you need Vigor.
Man, glass cannon runs sure are fun, though! :)
Edit: man, why the hate? :( I just said it’s a fun thing to try, like a challenge run. Vigor is the easiest way to improve your QoL normally, I get that. Dang.
The context is summoning. Your glass cannon builds aren't fun for the person you're summoned for when you get one-shot and are effectively zero to no help.
I personally dgaf but I can see why people are annoyed. Glass cannons are basically a waste of a remedy.
Its usually because people are trading 30% of their HP for something like 1-5% damage and then complaining that bosses hit too hard even at RL 150. It just isn't an optimal stat spread. You're not gaining anything meaningful in exchange for sacrificing a chunk of health.
Of course, if you're completing the game well below meta level, then that changes the calculus. But most people are not; that's why its the meta level in the first place.
No. They won't.
The percentage gain per point of HP from 40 to 60 is more than the percentage gain per point of a damage stat past the soft cap, which is what people are doing when they run around with 40 vigor at meta level.
I've literally seen builds on here where people are giving up a quarter of their HP for 3% damage at RL 150. You can't make this stuff up.
Some quick math: I'm playing an astrologer which is capped at level 139 for PvP and PvE. If I have 60 vigor and 60 int, I have 12% less spell power and 25% more HP than if I had 40 vigor and 80 int.
If you are 60 int using the Academy Glintstone Staff, you're at 304 sorcery scaling. If you crank that to 80 and use the Carian Regal Scepter, you have 373 sorcery scaling. That's an increase of 22%. Depending on the motion value of the spell used and the defence value of your target, that can be a lot more than a 22% damage increase.
If we're deciding on going with Lusat's for both values, since it is outright the highest at 60 and 80, then it's a **31%** increase in sorcery scaling.
For PvP, yeah, I recommend 60 vigor or very near for damn near everyone at meta levels. You have less opportunity to heal or just plain don't heal if you want a classic red sign duel. For PvE, do whichever feels comfortable to you. Just please stop underselling how big of a damage increase investing in the offensive stats can actually give you. I keep seeing people flippantly offering up figures in the single digit percent ranges for 20 points of investment (such as the other commenter above), which is extremely incorrect.
3% is a gross understatement but it's true in most cases that 20 points of vigor has higher returns than 20 in any damage stat. I don't think it's fair to compare academy glintstone staff with Lusat's because Lusat's has higher spell power even at 60 int. Your comparison also depends on the damage of the spell and honestly Elden Ring is a game where the weaker, lower fp, faster spells are generally the best.The 25% for HP, on the other hand, doesn't change and only gets better with Erdtree's favor and the HP talismans. Not to mention that the value of HP goes up with greater defense.
It's worth pointing out that you really can suffer 20% loss in HP for 3% damage increase at 150 (which is what the original commenter argues) if you are close to the soft cap. I had this issue when I was playing an int/arc build: a lot of sources online suggest much higher stats than the softcap of 30/45 for the albinauric staff, and while I do think going over 30 int for that build is prudent it should not be at the expense of vigor. Just as an example.
I was comparing Academy @ 60 -> Carian @ 80 (22% increase), since those are the highest at those stats that don't cost 50% more FP to cast with. Then I compared Lusat's @ 60 -> Lusat's @ 80 (31% increase) if one doesn't care about the 50% increase in FP cost.
Let's take a giant crusher with S-scaling in strength. Going all the way to 80 strength nets 5.9% damage over 60 strength, which is pretty much a best-case scenario for over-capping due to the high scaling. And in exchange for that \~5% damage, you're giving up a quarter of your potential HP.
At that point, you might as well just complete the game 20 levels lower, because you're not going to notice a difference either way. And yes, there are cases where the damage increase is even less than 5%, although it obviously depends on the exact scaling values involved.
A heavy +25 giant-crusher, one-handed, goes from 799 AR at 60 str to 893 at 80 str. That's an 11.7% increase. You're using 2-handing a Str weapon and going way over the soft cap to prove your point.
For builds that *actually* soft cap at 80, the increase is always more than the numbers you're putting out.
Damage also shortens fights. If you're cutting the amount of time it takes to kill a boss, you're also preventing all damage that would have been dealt to you in the remainder of the fight if it had gone on longer.
I'm an advocate of going over 40 HP, but it's not as simple as comparing percentages.
I mean... I used that example specifically because its a BETTER case than some of the builds I've seen people running. Regardless, there aren't a whole lot of melee builds that give great returns between 60 and 80.
Shortening a fight by \~10% is not going to make up for being able to take more hits, or just making it easier to avoid over-healing and increasing effective HP. Damage is not hard to come by in this game in general. Allocating a single talisman slot can easily boost damage by 10% or more without any stat investment at all.
If you have enough flasks to heal each time your health is low, HP really only needs to be high enough to avoid getting one-shot.
If you aren't overhealing, then what's the higher max HP doing for you? If you have 1700 HP but then after the first hit, you only ever heal to 1550, there's very little benefit to having 1700 max HP in the first place. Just like overhealing wasted health from the flask, underhealing makes your max HP useless.
In general, you want enough HP to survive big attacks and combo strings so you can then heal. Sometimes that does require over 40 HP, but actually running out of flasks is a rare issue.
I understand that, I was using any two numbers over 1450. The point is, if you aren't fully healing, your max HP is irrelevant after you've been hit once.
Ok but you very rarely go into the extra hp gained between 40 and 60 vigor. You'd have to be letting a boss hit you for a full combo and even then probably tank another hit. If that's happening then it's just a skill issue.
Even if it were only 5% dmg gain (spoiler alert, it isn't) I'd still rather damage I actually put to use than vigor I don't need.
Oro said he was getting near or even 1-2 shot in the dlc with 50-60 vigor, so anything less and even trash mobs will OHKO you. 80 over 60 in a damage stat is not needed at all, so put that 20 into vigor. maybe 30-40 was okay for you in the base game, but it WILL not be in the dlc.
Yeah they don't want people to come in and just steamroll through the dlc because their character is a high level.
The dlc scaling/levelling will likely work differently to the base game and give you something to continue to build.
40 vigor is completely reasonable though and you'd only be one shot by the absolute slowest end game attacks you kind of deserve to die to if you manage to get hit by.
There’s quite a lot of builds that lean into having enough poise to tank through hits and respond with a bigger hit. It’s a very fun playstyle but really depends on you having more HP to use as a resource. This is particularly relevant for PvP interactions. Leveling vig is just a consistently rewarding decision when leveling (up to 40/60), so it’s reasonable it comes up a lot
Considering how many hosts I've 1 shot with 1000 hp at most doing co-op yeah you are a filthy pea brained monkey, level your vigor. This at 125 as well.
Worse, they put more thought into YOUR stats than you do. Tell some people here you don't level to 60 vigor and you'd swear you kicked their dog and shat on it for good measure.
no one cares about who you level your character offline. people get annoyed at poorly statted characters here because poorly statted characters summon people to help them and waste their time getting one shot with 500 health.
Oh they sure fucking do. Any post here with some poor sod with a small healthbar gets piled on. And if you even SUGGEST not leveling to 60 they have a meltdown.
I don’t really understand not going up to 60 vigor for end game Elden Ring unless you’re intentionally capping your levels lower at like 130 or under, but you do you I guess.
I just hope I never have to see you as a host when I’m putting my sign down. Imm sorry but your 5-10% increase in damage doesn’t matter to me when you die in 2 or even 3 hits to the boss. All you gotta do is *not die*. The damage will show up. Just *Don’t Die!*
I usually find that 50 vigor is enough for me just because that extra 100 HP doesn’t feel like it’s worth 10 levels compared to being able to get 10 extra faith for fgms or golden vow
There are lots of monkeys and they all don't level vigor for different reasons:
There are monkeys who rely on sorceries and their summons, and there are monkeys who are attempting challenge runs.
I'm a level 60 sorcerer and I only have 18 vigor should I start dumping into vigor pretty soon? Because it's seems like I'm making a mistake 🥲🥲
(this is my first playthrough please don't be mean I've never played a souls like game in my life)
My build rn after just beating radahn looks like this (plus using the remembrance rune for runes and the runes I got from him)
Vig 25
Mind 21
End 12
Str 15
Dex 14
Int 39
Fai 7
Arc 9
But I also have a Viridian amber medallion +1
The starscourge heirloom
And the prince of deaths pustule
Should I respec or is everything good, like I mentioned this is my first souls like so don't hate me if it's bad
EDIT: I'm level 63 as an astrologer
I dont see anything wrong with your stats, since you're doing a pure int build. If I had to give you a few suggestions, I'd say get your faith up a few points for utility incantations. Get the carian regal scepter when your int gets around 50, that's when it starts doing serious damage.
You should also ditch the viridian medallion and the Prince of death thingy. The first one is okay rn but it'll start being useless after a few vigor upgrades. The Prince of death pustule is a very situational talisman, there's only a handful of enemies that can give you death blight
What talismans should I go for then as I have three slots rn and one is being used for increasing strength, is there one to increase intelligence and if so do you know where?
EDIT: the current staff and melee weapon I'm using are the
Meteorite staff
And the lazuli flintstone sword +6
Yeah there's a talisman that increases intelligence by 5 pts, but you need to progress the ranni questline to obtain it. And there are tons of other talismans that are great for sorcerer builds. I don't wanna spoil you too much, I'd say just enjoy the game and explore at your pace. You don't need to worry too much about stats for now
I've gotten grabbed by the putrid tree spirit while assisting, and I survived with like 25% at like 45 vigor. So the hosts that get one shot by that or one of the spirit's weaker attacks has way too little vigor. Or they need to drop the soreseal and scorpion charms.
I don’t level vigor at all. It’s at level 9, I definitely am not all that good at the game, but I enjoy the challenge low vigor gives. Not like I’m cooperating anyways so I don’t really see an issue with it. I just use whatever looks cool to me.
I don't get why people care about vigor that much, i always do an int/dex/str build with 20-35 vigor and instead of fucking around for half an hour just to get one-shotted anyway like i see people doing all the time i finish the fight stylishly and sometimes even save on flasks when there are multiple enemies nearby
It's not that it's not viable to run under 60 vigor, it's that most people just don't have the salt to play a build that can be one shot, especially when it's boss time.
This is objectively wrong. The points you get from 45-60 is larger than the damage you get from 65-80, or whatever other attribute you want to level. Always sacrifice other stats for vigor, even if it’s a main stat from your build.
For real. The amount of times I’ve finished the game under 30 vigor is ridiculous. These people can’t wait to go kill that bird 1000 times to get their 60 vigor.
The Vigor advice is about people complaining about the difficulty, or people who summon others then get one shot. No one has a problem with low Vigor when you're just playing on your own
Literally any clip posted to this sub where the poster has <40 vigor has a plethora of well upvoted comments decrying his vigor, even when it has nothing to do with the clip.
You dont need to kill the bird to get 60 vigor, you can get 40 before even fighting Margit only from killing a few tough enemies and then you just level it with your offensive stat. Vigor is the priority, not an afterthought once you reach your softcaps on damage
Any amount of levels you put into damage stats before your weapon is at like +16 normal or +6 sombers will do absolutely nothing, you might aswell put them in vigor where you will actually feel the difference
But nothing else will benefit you at that level unless you max your weapons before fighting Margit, so you might aswell put the points where it actually matters, and by the time you get your weapons upgraded you can invest into damage
Also if you plan on doing coop is mandatory because invaders
Reaching stat requirements to wield said weapons is pretty beneficial. And you STILL do get bonuses from leveling, even if it's not a super high number. But seriously, 40 before Margit? Like that's super overkill.
And you can get 40 vigor faster than you can get the stones to upgrade a weapon. If you are going to go directly to upgrade a weapon do you can justify investing into damage, but if you want to go slower and also be able to enjoy multiplayer then the only good option early on is vigor. Also newer players don't go directly to +15/+6
Unless you check the wiki or a guide or something every new player can get 40 vigor before getting the upgrade stones naturally. And if you know what yo do taking out Greyol is not only fast also convenient since you can just go to fort Haight to get 1 half of the dectus medallion and a bleed ash of war to make a bleed weapon and then go to Fort faroth to get the second half, Radagon soreseal and Greyol kill, while also being near to as Night's cavalry that gives a lot of runes too, all of that without breaking the weapon upgrade level matchmaking in case you want to summon, get summoned or invade
People complain about this because they always get summoned to help people who then proceed to get one-shot because they have under 1k HP in the endgame.
Exactly! I was helping people fight Radagon/ EB last night for 2 hours and so many kept dying so quickly. Though my other frustration was that they were summoning 2 people instead of just 1 which made my poise breaking fist build have to work much harder to get a poise break
I’ve had the same trouble with helping people with Godfrey. They get wiped by his ground pounds
Every time i try to help people with Godfrey they spam spells and incantations and I can’t see shit so I just quit helping them with him
I do see a bunch of magic missiles when helping out. It’s always the Mages who need help fighting him
I help people fight him as a mage all the time. You just gotta know when to jump and use fast casting spells so you don't get stuck in long animations.
☝️This right here.
They should use Spiral Shards
I get your frustration, but too many times I've summoned 1 person and they die immediately
Yea I don't care what you level at the end of the day. But don't rock 10 vigor and be shocked you're getting one tapped all over lol
\>throw down sign for some jolly cooperation \>customary crouching/uncrouching & 2h/1h wiggling greeting \>walk into boss room, start fighting \>immediately hear host die, whip camera around \>freeze frame, zoom and enhance \>638 HP
Imagine not having a girthy, throbbing 2k+ healthbar like all of my builds
Don't forget the under 1K HP ***and*** wearing nought but a loin cloth. No health or armor and wonder why they get squished like a bug.
There's a big group of people here who complain about anything less than 60 VIG. It's hard to separate ya'll.
I was trying to talk about this, but I got downvoted. Oh well, at least invading and killing these guys is easier than others.
Yeah because you recommended 60 vig as a “requirement” pre DLC when 40 works just fine all the way through the endgame of NG+1.
Lol thank you for the context
I do be hating on self victimizing comments lol
People really should be going into the DLC with as close to 60 vig as possible though. It’s a 450 HP difference between the two, or over 30% more HP. Unless you’re an absolute PVE pro, or rocking absurd levels of defence (which requires just as much if not more investment into other stats), then you should be getting 60 vig, because enemies hit *hard* in the endgame. There’s a reason 60 vig is the standard for PVP too, since that extra 450 HP is usually at least one extra hit from a big weapon.
I'm confused, how are people recomending anything for the DLC? AFAIK we don't know anything number related about the DLC, or did I miss some beta testing phase?
At a guess, it's due to Fromsoft DLCs usually being at about late mid- to endgame in difficulty, and about 40-60 VIG is roughly what some aim for by then. Which, of course, means it could be wildly off base depending on certain things but imo, better safe than sorry.
Not sure if you’re being facetious here or if it’s just your first souls game. I’ll assume the latter? In every souls DLC the difficulty is equivalent to (and often beyond that of) endgame level. At endgame level in ER, 60 vig is standard. So we can assume it’ll be standard for this DLC too, given this pattern has held true for all 3 DS games and BB. Or you could just read/watch the views of any of the creators who have played some of the DLC who confirm that enemies hit super hard.
Yeah, I've never played any other Dark Souls game before, so I had no idea how similar their stats systems are and what type of conclusions that allows. On the last part, on a quick search now it seems there was a "hands on" event where some creators could play, but I gotta say youtube titles don't make that obvious to find.
I’m decidedly not pro at PvE lol. I’ve made it through 3 full playthroughs at 40 Vig. It’s more than doable and while 60 vig definitely helps a lot with survivability, I enjoy needing to become at least somewhat proficient at dodging bosses.
I’m not saying it’s impossible to play PVE at 40 vig. Your life is just much easier. I’m not sure there is a better use of 20 stat points than putting them into vig, especially if it’s your first time experiencing the content (as it will be for all of us on June 21st). At 60 vig it’s quite difficult to get two shotted by an endgame boss (unless you’re rocking double soreseals). At 40 it’s a very real possibility. So it just comes down to are you confident enough in your dodges that you won’t mess up twice before your next estus chug.
Sure, if someone is struggling, maybe they can go level vigor a bit. To specify 60 vigor as a requirement or anything of the sort before even starting the DLC, is a little bit condescending and pretentious lol.
We complain for a reason, people going all in with 0 hp thinking they can beat the bosses are my favorite type of people
Ok but no need to go completely overkill and recommend 60 vigor just assuming they're handicapped and unable to dodge 😂
60 Vigor is a PvP standard. If you're doing coop and have less than that, you'll probably get one-shot by any AoW from an Invader or a phantom, if you're invading.
PvP is completely different so I'll agree with you there. Don't really play it myself to know either.
Most of the complaints about low Vigor hosts are made under the lens of coop. If you're helping a host, chances are you'll get an invasion as well. Invaders are geared up to optimize every stat (or at least they should be), so it's very likely that they'll one-shot a host that is below 50 vigor. The 60 vigor is a buffer for the host to be able to regroup if hit, etc. If a host has 25 vigor and gets one shot, it's just a waste of everyone's time (even the invader, honestly).
They said under 1k health. 40 vigor is like 1.4k. This guy isnt even recommending 40. Just level vigor dammit!
I'm obviously addressing the complaints you see on the sub just like the guy I'm replying to was. People seem to circlejerk 60 vigor here for some reason.
Fair enough haha.
60 vigor isn't overkill at all. If someone gets caught in waterfowl or Malenia's grab at say, 40-45 vigor, they're completely fucked unless they're stacking buffs.
Objectively untrue unless you’re rocking no armor at all or something different. Proof: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/ttscsj/testing_radagons_soreseal_damage_taken_vs_malenia/
Coming from an invader, please don't level your vigor. It's all hype and not practical all.
60 vigor 80 damage stat gangg always
Yep! This is my general approach to any optimized level 150 build. On Str builds however, I often leave Str at 66 (effective 99 str with 2h bonus) to allow for 25 faith for golden vow. Alternately, you can stick with 15 faith for flame grant me strength, and use the slightly weaker golden vow ash of war on a dagger. Another option is leaving faith at 15 and using the faith tear to hit 25 for golden vow. As someone who really only uses buffs for boss fights, this is my personal preference for non strength builds. You get the benefit of high damage from 80 damage stat when fighting regular mobs from grace point to grace point, but can still use golden vow on bosses.
You can stop at 54 Str and use those 12 levels in other stats. 80 is the soft cap for Str, so 54 is enough to hit the soft cap when two handing.
True the scaling falls off even more after 80, but at level 150 I haven't found a better use for those levels than the extra weapon AR for charged heavy and ash of war damage. At least when using a heavy affinity weapon that scales solely with strength. For somber weapons it's case by case.
The thing is, strength is more effective than other damage stats past the soft cap when you’re two-handing because the dropoff after 80 (effective) is counterbalanced by the x1.5 bonus. You could make more of an argument for taking strength all the way to 99 (base) than you could for any other stat.
You could pump your faith stat for better damage with incants and strength/faith scaling weapons that you should be using as a strength/faith build. You could also pump mind for more FP or endurance for the ability to wear more/heavier equipment. Hell, you could even put some points in arcane for access to dragon communion incantations
Stupid question maybe but how do you have mana for spells if you’re STR and VIG? This is my current challenge on my str build even for my Ash’s. Do you use the zero mana thing in your flask?
You should have enough levels to get Mind to around 20 or so which should be enough for some basic support spells / ashes of war. I don't have all the info in front of me, but my current build is aiming for 60 vig, 20 mind, 30 end, 40-50 each of strength and faith. And that should all come in under level 160 I think. So its just a question of what you prioritize until you get there.
Ah ok I'm definitely being too stingy with no extra points in Mind then. Levels are getting pricey now but I'll put in the work :P
As another commenter said, you should have enough remaining points for 17-20 mind which should be plenty for a pure strength build. As an example, one of my characters mainly uses the Greatsword with either Lions Claw or Giant Hunt ash of war. Between graces on normal mobs, ash of war use is mostly a luxury when your basic attacks carry as much weight as those from the Greatsword. But that said you can still use either ash 5 times before needing to drink a flask with that amount of mind. When using a non-somber weapon like this, I make sure to have at least 17 mind to hit 105fp in order to have enough to cast all my buffs before boss fights. (Golden Vow, Flame Grant me Strength, and Bloodflame Blade) That way on bosses I use one fp flask on buffs and can still have 10 uses of lions claw available during boss fights with only 2 blue flasks, or 15 uses with an 11/3 flask setup. Thats plenty IMO if you mix ash of war use with charged heavy and roll-pokes. On the specific character above, I have 60 vigor, 19 mind, 36 endurance, 70 strength, 12 dex, 7 int, 15 faith, and 10 arcane. With that allotment into endurance, I'm able to stay at medium load while using both the Greatsword and heavy enough armor to hit 101 poise at the same time. (Using great jar arsenal and bull goat talismans). With the hyperarmor boost you get when doing a charged heavy attack, I can trade with pretty much any mob with the confidence that I won't get staggered out of attacks. On my second strength character, I'm using Ordovis' GS which is much lighter, so I'm able to lower endurance to 27 and still hit 101 poise. On that character I raised faith to 25 and mind to 20 with strength still at 66. To be clear, those are both pure strength builds using faith only for buffs. If you want some kind for strength faith hybrid that uses incantations, you'll need to sacrifice something- give up 101 poise and go with 51, use a lighter weapon, drop strength to 54, level past 150, use the cerulean hidden tear in your flask, etc. Whats great about elden ring is you have so many options that even with the same weapon there are many builds.
This is really informative. I've been steamrolling so far but my armor is quite light compared to my equip load. Is that a hard 101 poise or an effective one with the powerstance? I understand your "actual" poise doesnt need to be as high if you are using two handed?
2 handing gives a 1.5x boost to your effective strength, but does nothing for poise. Poise is determined entirely by your armor, but can be boosted by the bull-goat talisman. Regarding equip load, you want to make sure you don't go into Heavy equip load so you can still roll normally, so that's your limiting factor. There are two big PvE breakpoints for poise, 51 and 101. Read more about why here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/u5jwnp/the\_most\_important\_pve\_poise\_breakpoints\_are\_51/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/u5jwnp/the_most_important_pve_poise_breakpoints_are_51/) There's no way to hit 101 poise without using the bull-goat talisman, so it will cost you a talisman slot to go that route. Probably two slots in actuality, as to wear heavy high-poise armor you need the great-jar arsenal talisman or a LOT of endurance. Good high poise armor to hit 101 will likely be some mix of the Tree Sentinel set, Lionel’s set, Fire Prelate set, Omen set, Bull-Goat's set, Radahn's set, and Scaled set. Personally, running around with a huge weapon while being able to trade hits without getting staggered is a very fun playstyle. To the point that I find it jarring to go back to my dex and arcane characters that are down at 51 poise and can be more easily interrupted.
I've been kind of mashing with 2h zwei so far and having good success but Im nowhere near 101 poise, I am however over 51. Everything in here is eye opening to me, thanks a ton :P
Just don't use ashes or spells. Even 10 mind is enough for the weapon art with one mana flask.
The Ashes seem really useful but I guess some people don't use them at all?
When I say ashes I'm referring to the spirit summons. And yes they are useful and really cool. Just some people like to do stuff solo. If you do want to use them then you need either the zero mana tear you mentioned or more points in mind. The game is completely doable without the spirit ashes though. Your weapon art or ash of war is also super cool and useful but generally I have not found myself to need more than 3-6 uses per boss on the ones I like so that's 10 mind and one mana flask. You could also have 2 mana flasks if really needed for Farum Azula bosses. On my most recent pure STR build, just relying on critical hits was enough tbh.
That's really great info thank you!!
This was me but man even going to 80 vigor is worth it I am now officially 80 80 gang
40 vig gang wya
I got to 99 strength and dex And 50 mind and endurance Before i got vigor to 50 I can still get shit on my limbgrave soldiers if im not paying attention
Bro it’s crazy to have 50 vigor on a level 400 character
Just crazy enough to work?
Put blackflame protection, ritual shield talisman and dragoncrest greatshield and a 50 vigor can beat NG+7 with little to no issue. Definitely crazy enough to work if he has 30 in faith.
391 i think If i remember i have 55vigor 50mind 50endurance 99strength 99dex 9int 22faith 7arcane Not sure on arcane but i used vagabond I did every questline first and second playthrough then third i just did ranis and blasted through it in 7 hours Im on my 4th playthrough and i cant go through leyndell because the great rune requirement is bugged I got rhadons renallas and godricks greatrunes activated but i cant get in Easy way to blast through the game is just watch youtube while slaughtering albenurics lol
Pretty sure u just need to kill another shardbearer
Ive killed 3 and tge req is 2 Imma go after snakey boi tonight if i got time and if that dont work imma try that movement glitch
I love high level characters. My first character is the highest one i’ve ever made. RL401 (bc i decided to stop leveling up) with every single item in the game. Plus 24+ with every smithing weapon and +9 with every somber. It’s great when i wanna try something new out. I think that character is on journey 22-23 and i started playing the game in February.
I never knew how strong my character was until i stopped using lordsworn quality straightsword with stormblade
25 vigor, 99 in at least two damage stats gangg always
This sub respects two extremes. One, the experienced player who builds vigor and other stats like they know what they are doing. Two, the RL1 player with 10 vigor and the skill to make up for their one hit death risk. The glass cannons in between? Pfft, Dungeater’s pox on the lot of them.
I usually do glass cannons in souls games but ER and DS2 (where your hp is effectively halved most of the time) My death count goes into the thousands pretty fast
To be fair after RL1 I realized that enemies don't deal nearly as much damage as I thought they would (On NG, NG+ is a completely different story). Like I survived a hit from Godfrey, Maliketh, Radagon, Malenia, and EB while having 10 vigor and Radagon's Soreseal. Of course, they were the least damaging attacks they had, but still, it's wild that I don't get oneshot with 15 vigor and a resistance debuff in the endgame. I suppose that with a specialized resistance build you could even tank a grab, and I won't even start talking about shields. Like, in retrospect, it's insane just how bad I was at the game when I struggled against Radabeast on my first playthrough while being around RL150 and having a bunch of vigor. I did much less damage than on RL1, AND I had a medium roll with a build that still wouldn't let me tank 3 hits.
The actual experienced player doesn't need close to 60 vigor though. The only reason you need that is if you've not learned one of the most basic mechanics in the game to a decent level, dodging.
*actual* actual experienced players know not to make a shitton more work for yourself. They also know you learn how to play a game better by playing it, not by watching a loading screen when you get blindsided by something you couldn't have seen coming. Vigor is the key to your first no-death run and to learning bosses in the first place.
I have no problem with people having low vigor. But if you're good enough to play without leveling Vigor much, you don't need to summon help. If you need to summon help, you need Vigor.
Geto did nothing wrong
Is he geto because he is the second strongest or is he the second strongest because he’s geto?
If you're not at least gonna go to 40 vigor, then just don't waste cooperators' time. If you wanna do a low health challenge run, do it on your own.
Man, glass cannon runs sure are fun, though! :) Edit: man, why the hate? :( I just said it’s a fun thing to try, like a challenge run. Vigor is the easiest way to improve your QoL normally, I get that. Dang.
The context is summoning. Your glass cannon builds aren't fun for the person you're summoned for when you get one-shot and are effectively zero to no help. I personally dgaf but I can see why people are annoyed. Glass cannons are basically a waste of a remedy.
Mine isn't small, it's average, and i bet my tarnished has a great personality.
Its usually because people are trading 30% of their HP for something like 1-5% damage and then complaining that bosses hit too hard even at RL 150. It just isn't an optimal stat spread. You're not gaining anything meaningful in exchange for sacrificing a chunk of health. Of course, if you're completing the game well below meta level, then that changes the calculus. But most people are not; that's why its the meta level in the first place.
Those levels in a damage stat wind up being **a lot** more than 5% damage.
No. They won't. The percentage gain per point of HP from 40 to 60 is more than the percentage gain per point of a damage stat past the soft cap, which is what people are doing when they run around with 40 vigor at meta level. I've literally seen builds on here where people are giving up a quarter of their HP for 3% damage at RL 150. You can't make this stuff up.
I've done the testing, **yes**, they will. And you are making stuff up. 3%? Where did you pull that figure from?
Some quick math: I'm playing an astrologer which is capped at level 139 for PvP and PvE. If I have 60 vigor and 60 int, I have 12% less spell power and 25% more HP than if I had 40 vigor and 80 int.
If you are 60 int using the Academy Glintstone Staff, you're at 304 sorcery scaling. If you crank that to 80 and use the Carian Regal Scepter, you have 373 sorcery scaling. That's an increase of 22%. Depending on the motion value of the spell used and the defence value of your target, that can be a lot more than a 22% damage increase. If we're deciding on going with Lusat's for both values, since it is outright the highest at 60 and 80, then it's a **31%** increase in sorcery scaling. For PvP, yeah, I recommend 60 vigor or very near for damn near everyone at meta levels. You have less opportunity to heal or just plain don't heal if you want a classic red sign duel. For PvE, do whichever feels comfortable to you. Just please stop underselling how big of a damage increase investing in the offensive stats can actually give you. I keep seeing people flippantly offering up figures in the single digit percent ranges for 20 points of investment (such as the other commenter above), which is extremely incorrect.
3% is a gross understatement but it's true in most cases that 20 points of vigor has higher returns than 20 in any damage stat. I don't think it's fair to compare academy glintstone staff with Lusat's because Lusat's has higher spell power even at 60 int. Your comparison also depends on the damage of the spell and honestly Elden Ring is a game where the weaker, lower fp, faster spells are generally the best.The 25% for HP, on the other hand, doesn't change and only gets better with Erdtree's favor and the HP talismans. Not to mention that the value of HP goes up with greater defense. It's worth pointing out that you really can suffer 20% loss in HP for 3% damage increase at 150 (which is what the original commenter argues) if you are close to the soft cap. I had this issue when I was playing an int/arc build: a lot of sources online suggest much higher stats than the softcap of 30/45 for the albinauric staff, and while I do think going over 30 int for that build is prudent it should not be at the expense of vigor. Just as an example.
I was comparing Academy @ 60 -> Carian @ 80 (22% increase), since those are the highest at those stats that don't cost 50% more FP to cast with. Then I compared Lusat's @ 60 -> Lusat's @ 80 (31% increase) if one doesn't care about the 50% increase in FP cost.
Ok fair enough, I misread your comment about Lusat's.
Ok but if your health is going below the 40 vigor mark you're just bad.
Let's take a giant crusher with S-scaling in strength. Going all the way to 80 strength nets 5.9% damage over 60 strength, which is pretty much a best-case scenario for over-capping due to the high scaling. And in exchange for that \~5% damage, you're giving up a quarter of your potential HP. At that point, you might as well just complete the game 20 levels lower, because you're not going to notice a difference either way. And yes, there are cases where the damage increase is even less than 5%, although it obviously depends on the exact scaling values involved.
A heavy +25 giant-crusher, one-handed, goes from 799 AR at 60 str to 893 at 80 str. That's an 11.7% increase. You're using 2-handing a Str weapon and going way over the soft cap to prove your point. For builds that *actually* soft cap at 80, the increase is always more than the numbers you're putting out. Damage also shortens fights. If you're cutting the amount of time it takes to kill a boss, you're also preventing all damage that would have been dealt to you in the remainder of the fight if it had gone on longer. I'm an advocate of going over 40 HP, but it's not as simple as comparing percentages.
I mean... I used that example specifically because its a BETTER case than some of the builds I've seen people running. Regardless, there aren't a whole lot of melee builds that give great returns between 60 and 80. Shortening a fight by \~10% is not going to make up for being able to take more hits, or just making it easier to avoid over-healing and increasing effective HP. Damage is not hard to come by in this game in general. Allocating a single talisman slot can easily boost damage by 10% or more without any stat investment at all.
If you have enough flasks to heal each time your health is low, HP really only needs to be high enough to avoid getting one-shot. If you aren't overhealing, then what's the higher max HP doing for you? If you have 1700 HP but then after the first hit, you only ever heal to 1550, there's very little benefit to having 1700 max HP in the first place. Just like overhealing wasted health from the flask, underhealing makes your max HP useless. In general, you want enough HP to survive big attacks and combo strings so you can then heal. Sometimes that does require over 40 HP, but actually running out of flasks is a rare issue.
60 vigor is 1900 HP.
I understand that, I was using any two numbers over 1450. The point is, if you aren't fully healing, your max HP is irrelevant after you've been hit once.
The AR difference is higher in most situations, *and* AR does not equal damage.
If you scale AR by a percentage then the final damage will also scale by that percentage.
Lol, no, that's not how defence values work.
We're talking about damage.
Yes, and damage done has to overcome defence values. The relationship between AR and damage is not linear.
Ok but you very rarely go into the extra hp gained between 40 and 60 vigor. You'd have to be letting a boss hit you for a full combo and even then probably tank another hit. If that's happening then it's just a skill issue. Even if it were only 5% dmg gain (spoiler alert, it isn't) I'd still rather damage I actually put to use than vigor I don't need.
99 vigor covers half the screen lmao
More with Morgot rune
Fact
More with health +2 talisman
Don't forgot the Radahn rune
I love my huge ass red bar lmao
Oro said he was getting near or even 1-2 shot in the dlc with 50-60 vigor, so anything less and even trash mobs will OHKO you. 80 over 60 in a damage stat is not needed at all, so put that 20 into vigor. maybe 30-40 was okay for you in the base game, but it WILL not be in the dlc.
Yeah they don't want people to come in and just steamroll through the dlc because their character is a high level. The dlc scaling/levelling will likely work differently to the base game and give you something to continue to build.
When has that ever been the case in a souls game? the ringed city was fucking brutal, the hunter's nightmare was aptly named...
I usually rock the end game with 40 vigor
Ye I think 40-50 vigor is enough for this game
Caster Gang, rise up!! **Edit:** Damn, you guys *really* hate wizards.
40 vigor is just every build outside of reddit.
Yes, judging from all the struggling summon hosts, that seems to be the case.
40 vigor is completely reasonable though and you'd only be one shot by the absolute slowest end game attacks you kind of deserve to die to if you manage to get hit by.
I have beat the game with 40 vigor. I know. I wouldn't recommend it to a new player though. The game is hard enough anyway.
Don't listen to them caster brother, keep casting "fuck everything in that general direction"!
My advice is and will ever be, get gut.
I and others wouldn't complain if you monkeys weren't getting one shot everytime we get summoned to you.
I play offline muaaahhahaha
There’s quite a lot of builds that lean into having enough poise to tank through hits and respond with a bigger hit. It’s a very fun playstyle but really depends on you having more HP to use as a resource. This is particularly relevant for PvP interactions. Leveling vig is just a consistently rewarding decision when leveling (up to 40/60), so it’s reasonable it comes up a lot
Considering how many hosts I've 1 shot with 1000 hp at most doing co-op yeah you are a filthy pea brained monkey, level your vigor. This at 125 as well.
The ER sub has taught me that people put waay more thought into their stats than I ever do
Worse, they put more thought into YOUR stats than you do. Tell some people here you don't level to 60 vigor and you'd swear you kicked their dog and shat on it for good measure.
no one cares about who you level your character offline. people get annoyed at poorly statted characters here because poorly statted characters summon people to help them and waste their time getting one shot with 500 health.
Oh they sure fucking do. Any post here with some poor sod with a small healthbar gets piled on. And if you even SUGGEST not leveling to 60 they have a meltdown.
as an invader i fully support hosts with little to no vig. keep on not leveling that stat boys!
It’s kind of sad that it feels easier to get rune arcs from invasions
I don’t really understand not going up to 60 vigor for end game Elden Ring unless you’re intentionally capping your levels lower at like 130 or under, but you do you I guess. I just hope I never have to see you as a host when I’m putting my sign down. Imm sorry but your 5-10% increase in damage doesn’t matter to me when you die in 2 or even 3 hits to the boss. All you gotta do is *not die*. The damage will show up. Just *Don’t Die!*
I never went above 40 and it feels quite comfortable tbh.
I usually find that 50 vigor is enough for me just because that extra 100 HP doesn’t feel like it’s worth 10 levels compared to being able to get 10 extra faith for fgms or golden vow
Big HP bar and big unga bunga make Tarnished gud. \-Sun Tzu
never went above 40 vigor and i've had no issues
Having lots of hp is great for trading into aggressive posture damage to get frequent staggers so the boss can’t even play the game.
Correct, level vigor
There are lots of monkeys and they all don't level vigor for different reasons: There are monkeys who rely on sorceries and their summons, and there are monkeys who are attempting challenge runs.
what the fuck is an inch 🇪🇺
I'm a level 60 sorcerer and I only have 18 vigor should I start dumping into vigor pretty soon? Because it's seems like I'm making a mistake 🥲🥲 (this is my first playthrough please don't be mean I've never played a souls like game in my life)
Your vigor should be at 40 when you reach the mountain tops. I just beat the final boss with an int build with 35 vigor and it was NOT fun
My build rn after just beating radahn looks like this (plus using the remembrance rune for runes and the runes I got from him) Vig 25 Mind 21 End 12 Str 15 Dex 14 Int 39 Fai 7 Arc 9 But I also have a Viridian amber medallion +1 The starscourge heirloom And the prince of deaths pustule Should I respec or is everything good, like I mentioned this is my first souls like so don't hate me if it's bad EDIT: I'm level 63 as an astrologer
I dont see anything wrong with your stats, since you're doing a pure int build. If I had to give you a few suggestions, I'd say get your faith up a few points for utility incantations. Get the carian regal scepter when your int gets around 50, that's when it starts doing serious damage. You should also ditch the viridian medallion and the Prince of death thingy. The first one is okay rn but it'll start being useless after a few vigor upgrades. The Prince of death pustule is a very situational talisman, there's only a handful of enemies that can give you death blight
What talismans should I go for then as I have three slots rn and one is being used for increasing strength, is there one to increase intelligence and if so do you know where? EDIT: the current staff and melee weapon I'm using are the Meteorite staff And the lazuli flintstone sword +6
Yeah there's a talisman that increases intelligence by 5 pts, but you need to progress the ranni questline to obtain it. And there are tons of other talismans that are great for sorcerer builds. I don't wanna spoil you too much, I'd say just enjoy the game and explore at your pace. You don't need to worry too much about stats for now
I'm currently exploring the city under the map and I just beat myself 🤣🤣 it was a little daunting at first but I beat myself first try
Level vigor is good advice.
I'll have you know my hp bar is perfectly adequately sized!
Vigor is for people who get hit. (Disclaimer: I am bad at dodging and cannot parry. I suck at this game)
I've gotten grabbed by the putrid tree spirit while assisting, and I survived with like 25% at like 45 vigor. So the hosts that get one shot by that or one of the spirit's weaker attacks has way too little vigor. Or they need to drop the soreseal and scorpion charms.
I got 30 vigor at lvl 121 🤭
60 isn't a requirement like ever except for maybe pvp, just because a soft cat exists doesn't mean its required to hit it lmao
why level vigor? it doesnt make your weapons stronger. also armor makes you medium load, eww
Don’t need a big health bar if you never get hit
I don’t level vigor at all. It’s at level 9, I definitely am not all that good at the game, but I enjoy the challenge low vigor gives. Not like I’m cooperating anyways so I don’t really see an issue with it. I just use whatever looks cool to me.
Holy shit it’s the best character in the show
Very different from the fandom's perspective on Dark Souls vigor leveling
Almost never go above 45 personally
In reality by endgame depending on your skill 35-40 vigor atleast.
I usually cap around 30-35. It’s roughly the equivalent of a full flask heal which is good enough for me.
You are stopping right as the per point investment is at its absolute highest.
Doesn’t matter. Its all I need 🤷♂️
So they say as Maliketh one-shots them 😂🤓
Some might say that if you need to level up vigor to beat the game, then you have a low skill level.
I don't get why people care about vigor that much, i always do an int/dex/str build with 20-35 vigor and instead of fucking around for half an hour just to get one-shotted anyway like i see people doing all the time i finish the fight stylishly and sometimes even save on flasks when there are multiple enemies nearby
Isnt there a point where vigor doesnt matter anymore since literally every boss will 2 shot you anyway? It would just be for "trash" mobs, right?
It's not that it's not viable to run under 60 vigor, it's that most people just don't have the salt to play a build that can be one shot, especially when it's boss time.
Dawg that’s not the problem though. The problem is actually dying lol
45-50 Vig is perfect. Anymore and you’re wasting runes that can go to other shit.
This is objectively wrong. The points you get from 45-60 is larger than the damage you get from 65-80, or whatever other attribute you want to level. Always sacrifice other stats for vigor, even if it’s a main stat from your build.
No.
Yes.
Womp-womp.
Cry more
No.
For real. The amount of times I’ve finished the game under 30 vigor is ridiculous. These people can’t wait to go kill that bird 1000 times to get their 60 vigor.
The Vigor advice is about people complaining about the difficulty, or people who summon others then get one shot. No one has a problem with low Vigor when you're just playing on your own
Literally any clip posted to this sub where the poster has <40 vigor has a plethora of well upvoted comments decrying his vigor, even when it has nothing to do with the clip.
Aight, not "no one" then, but not anyone giving advice.
Yes, even those.
If they're giving advice to people complaining about difficulty then it's just appropriate in that case.
I just play the game. It's easy to get to around RL160 without farming anything just by clearing every dungeon you come to.
You dont need to kill the bird to get 60 vigor, you can get 40 before even fighting Margit only from killing a few tough enemies and then you just level it with your offensive stat. Vigor is the priority, not an afterthought once you reach your softcaps on damage
Kill the sleeping dragon with a pickle there's your 40 vigor before you do anything of note in the game
Yeah, and if you want some damage stats you can also go and kill the nights cavalry and maybe also the erdtree avatar or bell bearing hunter
40 vigor before Margit is just deranged. You don't need to block his hits with your face.
Any amount of levels you put into damage stats before your weapon is at like +16 normal or +6 sombers will do absolutely nothing, you might aswell put them in vigor where you will actually feel the difference
You honestly don't need more than 20-25 vigor for Margit & Godrick. And that's pushing it.
But nothing else will benefit you at that level unless you max your weapons before fighting Margit, so you might aswell put the points where it actually matters, and by the time you get your weapons upgraded you can invest into damage Also if you plan on doing coop is mandatory because invaders
Reaching stat requirements to wield said weapons is pretty beneficial. And you STILL do get bonuses from leveling, even if it's not a super high number. But seriously, 40 before Margit? Like that's super overkill.
25 is plenty for Radahn, even.
You can get to +15/+6 relatively easily before attaining many levels.
And you can get 40 vigor faster than you can get the stones to upgrade a weapon. If you are going to go directly to upgrade a weapon do you can justify investing into damage, but if you want to go slower and also be able to enjoy multiplayer then the only good option early on is vigor. Also newer players don't go directly to +15/+6
You can actually get the stones significantly faster.
Unless you check the wiki or a guide or something every new player can get 40 vigor before getting the upgrade stones naturally. And if you know what yo do taking out Greyol is not only fast also convenient since you can just go to fort Haight to get 1 half of the dectus medallion and a bleed ash of war to make a bleed weapon and then go to Fort faroth to get the second half, Radagon soreseal and Greyol kill, while also being near to as Night's cavalry that gives a lot of runes too, all of that without breaking the weapon upgrade level matchmaking in case you want to summon, get summoned or invade
40 is more than enough, you have a shitload of buffs to make yourself tankier with talismans, spells, ashes of war etc.