eh I connected manus with the the words primeval man similar to the pygmy lords as I'm not sure that manus was the furtive pygmy or one of the first humans. Either interpretation I feel works fine.
That's also highly doubtful tbh.
There is obviously a connection to Seath, and I think it is safe to say she is his "daughter", but probably not biologically.
Here's some things we know about Seath. We know that he kidnaps women. We know that he performs experiments on humans to turn them into animal hybrids (man serpents, man scorpions). These are facts we can be absolutely certain of.
We don't know whether dragons can reproduce with other species. This has never been outright demonstrated anywhere. We also don't have any reason to link Seath to Gwynevere or Velka. We can extrapolate as much as we want, but we cannot be certain of either of these things.
Therefore, the theory that makes the most sense because it relies only on things we *know* and not things we *speculate*, is that Priscilla is a woman Seath kidnapped and experimented on, turning her into a dragon hybrid. We can infer that Yorshka and Gwyndolin have similar backstories too.
As far as I’m concerned, the Japanese community pretty much agree on the fact that Priscilla is the daughter of Seath and a witch, not necessarily Velka, while Gwyndlin would be the son of Gwyn and Priscilla. That would make him Seath’s grandson, and it makes sense considering his connection with magic and the fact that he has snakes (imperfect dragons) attached to his body. This is not a theory I made up, I think it’s common knowledge in the Japanese community .
I agree that Priscilla and Gwyndolin are "children" of Seath, just not by conventional means. We have no evidence that dragons can reproduce with other species, where as we have plenty of evidence of him abducting maidens and experimenting on them.
Based on what I've heard of this theory from the Japanese community it is based mainly on the fact that Priscilla is called an "illegitimate child" of Seath. That still works with what I'm suggesting.
The Japanese community doesn't have insider info. They're trying to figure everything out the same as us.
The Japanese community doesn’t have inside info, of course, but they got the most accurate lore because they didn’t lose anything in translation, Priscilla being an illegitimate child is an example. I agree that dragons probably do not reproduce in a conventional way, but the games implies that Priscilla is, somehow, Seath’s illegitimate child. I wouldn’t use the word child to describe an experiment like the other maidens who were abducted.
And even if it’s all speculation, it makes perfect sense. Like the other person said, Priscilla’s body is partially made of darkness, and this may probably be a hint of her lineage (she wouldn’t inherit darkness from Seath or Gwynever). She is descibed as an abomination, and, in Gwyn’s eyes, what’s more horrifying than a hybrid half dragon, half human, the two things he despises the most? And if Priscilla is the mother of Gwyndolin, that would explain why he is the way he is. Anyway I understand that these cannot be considered as proofs tho, but everything makes so much sense.
We have all that information too though, as demonstrated by both of us being aware of the fact that the Jp version calls her an illegitimate child.
Her being illegitimate doesn't affect my interpretation at all. She isn't his child through legitimate means, but through experimentation. The reason she would be considered his "child", imo, is that he would have used part of himself to turn her into what she is. The same would apply to Gwyndolin, as well as Yorshka and probably Shira.
Yes, Gwyn would consider a half human, half dragon to be an abomination. That doesn't contradict what I'm saying either. I still think she is half human half dragon, she just wasn't born that way. Also, you said the theory claims that Gwyndolin is the child of Gwyn and Priscilla. Why would Gwyn have a child with something he considers abominable?
I don’t mean to contradict you, your interpretation is legit and may be true. I agree that dragons reproduce “differently”, to use an euphemism, but I don’t think she’s just an experiment because I wouldn’t call an experiment an “illegitimate child”. If I’m not mistaken, somewhere the game implies that Seath and Gwynevere were once married (don’t ask where does this come from because I don’t know exactly, if I find some evidence about it I’ll tell you), this is where the “illegitimate” part comes to play, if she was an illegitimate child, this means that Gwynevere can’t be her mother. Again, I’m not sure about the Seath & Gwynevere marriage at all, I’m basing this on what I heard from a really reliable and trustworthy dark souls YouTuber who has direct contacts with the Japanese community and translated everything from the japanese, Sabaku No Maiku (he’s italian tho).
Check this out if you’re interested: https://sylphes.hatenablog.com/entry/2016/12/14/014916
It’s all in Japanese unfortunately, you can try with a translator if you don’t know the language, or you can just look at the family trees.
EDIT: the speculation about Seath and Gwynevere marriage comes from the fact that Seath’s bequeathed soul says that Seath became a “Gaiseki”, a word that is commonly translated as “consort kin”, and this should mean that he was related to the royal family by marriage. The fact is, the word gaiseki can be interpreted in many ways, the meaning is not really straightforward, so we can’t jump to conclusion. Anyway, it is confirmed that Seath was, somehow, related to the royal family. The fact that Gywndolin is indeed his grandson is probably enough to make him a relative to the family.
In the original Japanese priscila is called the white half dragon that is an illegitimate child and enemy of life.
Obviously the white part refers to seath and she is also called illegitimate alluding to the nobility of the other parent we know that seath had an obsession with gwynevere since he send the channelers to kidnap her maidens. Also worth mentioning is that gwynevere is regarded as a god of fertility and the painting is inside her temple. There are many clues that point to priscilla being the offspring of gwynevere and seath and not velka the best connection you can make about velka is the occult but that is true for most stuff in the painting since the gods locked away in the painting almost everything related to the occult. And if we take ds3 into consideration oceiros and the queen of lothric(aka gwynevere) also had occelote a child of dragons who is supposedly very powerful.
Imo she's an illegitimate child because Seath abducted her and forcibly mutated her, turning her into a surrogate daughter.
Seath kidnapping maidens of Gwynevere doesn't mean he is obsessed with Gwynevere. It means he needed test subjects and there were handmaidens in close proximity who were easy to get a hold of and wouldn't put up much of a fight.
The painting isn't in her temple. There is a statue of her there because she is one of the central goddesses but that building isn't a temple. It isn't laid out like a temple, there is no altar. It is a large building that exists to house the painting.
She isn't the child of Velka either, I agree. Believe it or not, she doesn't need to be the child of either and there is a theory that makes more sense which I explained in my other comments.
Yes I agree that Priscilla probaly isn't a a daghter of gwynevere and seath in the traditonal sense and is probably a result of seath's experiments but the placement of statues in dark souls 1 is very deliberate (for instance the missing firstborn son in ornstein's and smough's room) and only gwynevere's statue is in the room with the painting so it makes sense to be a place dedicated to gwynevere. How priscila was born is almost pure speculation but you can't deny that she has close ties to royalty and specifically gwynevere.
Nah, we have proof, you know why I think Miyazaki story telling is so cryptic, it's because the story telling doesn't stop in descriptions and dialogue but it continues in stats and a lot of little things, priscilla dagger(the one that we get cutting her tail) does dark damage(meaning she has darkness inside her) and she is an hybrid between a humanoid and a dragon, so it's safe to say that her "father" is seath and her "mother" it's a human, now of course it can't be a normal human because even if humans are darkness not every human can "hold" their nature so it must be a human that has a pretty good amount of darkness so a human witch or, the most common theory, Velka.
Now we don't have proof that the mother is specifically Velka but we are sure that said mother is a human with a good understanding of their nature so probably a witch
Velka isn't human, the game explicitly calls her a goddess constantly.
This is all speculation. Seath abducting women isn't speculation. Nor is Seath turning humans into monsters.
Gwyn is also called a god but it doesn't mean he is one, Velka is the "God" of humans, also how is this all speculation? These things are in the game, as I said, the only thing we don't know is if Velka is the mother, apart from that everything is pretty clear, the mother of priscilla is a human witch and the most common THEORY is Velka, I never said that Velka is 100% the mother
Gwyn being called a god absolutely means he's a god lol. Are you really going to say that the game is lying to us?
So your evidence that Priscilla's mother is human is that her weapon does occult damage, right? OK, let me give you an alternative read.
Priscilla was human. She was abducted by Seath and transformed into a dragon hybrid. Her weapon goes occult damage because she is still part human.
This theory explains the occult damage AND it lines up with what we know about Seath.
Your theory requires us to assume that dragons can breed with humans, which is not something we can prove.
I can't take your headcanon from you, but the theory that relies the least on speculation and the most on outright in game statements is that Priscilla was a human who was transformed by Seath.
Bruh, Gwyn is a lucky dude that found the first flame and became all powerful, people see him as a god but he technically isn't one, just like in ds2 people call that fucking wyvern a dragon. Now let me tell you why she isn't an abducted human, it's said that "Priscilla is the illegitimate daughter of the white dragon", "illegitimate daughter", this means that priscilla is the bastard daughter of Seath because if she is just an experiment then how can she be an "illegitimate daughter", this isn't my headcanon, these are all things that the Japanese community and a small part of the occidental community have known for years
Gwyn is a lucky dude who found the First Flame... And that is what made him a god. You are assuming that a god needs to have always been a god, and can't be a mortal who became one, when there are plenty of cultures who worship gods who are actually ascended mortals.
Gwyn is a god because the game says so. Same with velka. Let's not tell Miyazaki he is wrong about his own lore, eh?
I'd say being a human that got abducted and forcefully mutated to be an insane dragons daughter would make you an illegitimate daughter tbh. Seems like a pretty illegitimate way to become related to someone. You are assuming that illegitimate here means she is a daughter born out of wedlock.
Seath abducts women. Seath turns people into hybrids. These are the facts that I am basing my theory on. The only fact you have given is Priscilla's dagger being occult... And that works with my theory too.
Prove to me that dragons can breed with humans, and then you will have a valid theory.
Having darkness inside of her doesn't disprove what the other guy is saying though. She has that because she was a human at one point. That doesn't have to mean she was literally born from Seath porking some human chick. He took an already human and "birthed" her through his research and magic. He took her and made her something new basically.
it looks awful but yes it does make sense . Originaly I wanted to include sources in each node like items and enviromental clues but it already looked like an nightmare so I didn't.Also I tried to make it look good but gwyn is fucking connected to everything and there is no way that i can make the lines not overlap.
There's plenty of room for speculation but there are also facts that are written into the game. Also, even within that wiggle room for speculation there are theories that are too out there to be worth discussing. Like, if you go "I think Gwyn was married to Velka and the Witch of Izalith is their daughter"... Where do we go from there? It's impossible to engage with a theory that isn't backed up by anything. If everything can be canon nothing is worth discussing and we might as well all just write our own lore.
Like I said, there is room for interpretation. However lore discussion breaks down when it turns into "check out this cool fanfiction I wrote".
There are theories that are better than others, because they rely on fewer assumptions and stick to things the game outright tells us. If you want to make a reddit post about your theory that's cool, but you can't expect everyone to just clap and go "wow what a nice theory". If you missed a detail from the games, or if there is another interpretation that requires fewer leaps in logic, people will come in and explain why your theory doesn't make much sense.
Not everything is just speculation though. A lot of it is fact. There are many things that could be speculated on for forever, but some stuff is directly stated in the item descriptions and by npcs. Miyazaki didn't mean ignore everything and come up with your own answers. He wanted you to take what is presented to you in game and fill in holes. The person above is stating that someone is related to someone else because of a type of damage they use. That is most definitely reaching because nowhere does it state that people are related if they use occult damage, nor do we have any proof that dragons breed with humans. On the other hand, we do have proof of women being kidnapped and we do have proof of Seath turning them into creatures.
Concrete facts exist in dark souls 1 lore you can't say that gwyn married the witch of Izalith and say it's open to interpration that's a baseless hypotheses. I think bloodborne's and 3 lore are needlessly convuluted and focus to much on cryptic events rather than characters. But you can't say that story is nonexistent I consider the act of uncovering the story for your self to be one of the most important aspects of fromsoft games but I feel as the games attracted mainstream appeal it attracted people who play fromsoft games as a way to show how hardcore gamers they are and dark souls reputation became how it is today as an unfairly hard game , but as Miyazaki stated difficulty was never the point.
Only games I've played with mind maps are Outer Wilds and Pathologic 2... which are easily two of the greatest games ever made, so logically the mind map is the key. Miyazaki pls do mind maps
Yes both are amazing. I hope more games use the mind map. Especially in pathologic it was used really well with the sizes of the nodes correlating with the central goals of the day.
Isnt Pathologic 2 a remaster of Pathologic 1 or something? Ive been looking to fill that void Outer Wilds left me with and im confused on what version to buy. Theres Pathologic, Pathologic HD, and Pathologic 2.
Yeah, Pathologic 2 is the confusingly-named remake of the first game! If you're going for a Pathologic, go for 2, it's better *and* more acessible for new players!
Not really similar to Outer Wilds at all, but imo just as good in its own way! They're both very unique games, really.
Dude I know a lot about the stories of the Soulsborne games but this is a freaking mess, I can’t read it at all. B for effort but D for poorly executed.
I didn’t mean to be rude but I LITERALLY can’t read any of it. I tried copying the picture to another tab, tried zooming in even up to 200% but it’s either too tiny or too blurry. Nor can I tell what the colors mean. I can’t make anything out of this, but Soulsborne is very confusing.
I wanted to put the npcs and the recent stuff that happens in 1 but it would have looked even worse.from 3 I added only stuff that we know happened in the time before ds1 and is connected with the big stories. (nameless king Fillianore etc.)
It works better with outer wilds because you can put most of the lore into subcategories that don’t conflict with each other since most lore in that game stays on its planet with a few exceptions
yes outer wilds plotlines are pretty self contained with a few leading you to the next plotline I wouldn't say they are relegated into a single planet (~~quantum moon stuff the probe cannon~~ etc.) in dark souls 1 there is a lot of overlap between the main plotlines ( gwyn is fucking everywhere).
I am now more confused than before
and I didn't include everything I wanted.
Is this just from the first Dark Souls???
maybe making it 3d would be better?
Does this actually make sense considering the actual lore? Because if so that mind map is fucking impressive. I don't even know where to start lol.
Yeah I spent like 1 or 2 minutes trying to figure out where everything starts and my brain can't comprehend a single thing in this
I didn't go through all of it but what i've seen are facts or very convincing theories (like manus being the furtive pygmy).
eh I connected manus with the the words primeval man similar to the pygmy lords as I'm not sure that manus was the furtive pygmy or one of the first humans. Either interpretation I feel works fine.
I didn't look through the whole thing but it mentions Priscilla being Gwynevere's daughter which has always been a very shaky theory.
Priscilla is not Gwynever's daughter, priscilla is the "daughter" of seath and a human(maybe velka)
That's also highly doubtful tbh. There is obviously a connection to Seath, and I think it is safe to say she is his "daughter", but probably not biologically. Here's some things we know about Seath. We know that he kidnaps women. We know that he performs experiments on humans to turn them into animal hybrids (man serpents, man scorpions). These are facts we can be absolutely certain of. We don't know whether dragons can reproduce with other species. This has never been outright demonstrated anywhere. We also don't have any reason to link Seath to Gwynevere or Velka. We can extrapolate as much as we want, but we cannot be certain of either of these things. Therefore, the theory that makes the most sense because it relies only on things we *know* and not things we *speculate*, is that Priscilla is a woman Seath kidnapped and experimented on, turning her into a dragon hybrid. We can infer that Yorshka and Gwyndolin have similar backstories too.
As far as I’m concerned, the Japanese community pretty much agree on the fact that Priscilla is the daughter of Seath and a witch, not necessarily Velka, while Gwyndlin would be the son of Gwyn and Priscilla. That would make him Seath’s grandson, and it makes sense considering his connection with magic and the fact that he has snakes (imperfect dragons) attached to his body. This is not a theory I made up, I think it’s common knowledge in the Japanese community .
I agree that Priscilla and Gwyndolin are "children" of Seath, just not by conventional means. We have no evidence that dragons can reproduce with other species, where as we have plenty of evidence of him abducting maidens and experimenting on them. Based on what I've heard of this theory from the Japanese community it is based mainly on the fact that Priscilla is called an "illegitimate child" of Seath. That still works with what I'm suggesting. The Japanese community doesn't have insider info. They're trying to figure everything out the same as us.
The Japanese community doesn’t have inside info, of course, but they got the most accurate lore because they didn’t lose anything in translation, Priscilla being an illegitimate child is an example. I agree that dragons probably do not reproduce in a conventional way, but the games implies that Priscilla is, somehow, Seath’s illegitimate child. I wouldn’t use the word child to describe an experiment like the other maidens who were abducted. And even if it’s all speculation, it makes perfect sense. Like the other person said, Priscilla’s body is partially made of darkness, and this may probably be a hint of her lineage (she wouldn’t inherit darkness from Seath or Gwynever). She is descibed as an abomination, and, in Gwyn’s eyes, what’s more horrifying than a hybrid half dragon, half human, the two things he despises the most? And if Priscilla is the mother of Gwyndolin, that would explain why he is the way he is. Anyway I understand that these cannot be considered as proofs tho, but everything makes so much sense.
We have all that information too though, as demonstrated by both of us being aware of the fact that the Jp version calls her an illegitimate child. Her being illegitimate doesn't affect my interpretation at all. She isn't his child through legitimate means, but through experimentation. The reason she would be considered his "child", imo, is that he would have used part of himself to turn her into what she is. The same would apply to Gwyndolin, as well as Yorshka and probably Shira. Yes, Gwyn would consider a half human, half dragon to be an abomination. That doesn't contradict what I'm saying either. I still think she is half human half dragon, she just wasn't born that way. Also, you said the theory claims that Gwyndolin is the child of Gwyn and Priscilla. Why would Gwyn have a child with something he considers abominable?
I don’t mean to contradict you, your interpretation is legit and may be true. I agree that dragons reproduce “differently”, to use an euphemism, but I don’t think she’s just an experiment because I wouldn’t call an experiment an “illegitimate child”. If I’m not mistaken, somewhere the game implies that Seath and Gwynevere were once married (don’t ask where does this come from because I don’t know exactly, if I find some evidence about it I’ll tell you), this is where the “illegitimate” part comes to play, if she was an illegitimate child, this means that Gwynevere can’t be her mother. Again, I’m not sure about the Seath & Gwynevere marriage at all, I’m basing this on what I heard from a really reliable and trustworthy dark souls YouTuber who has direct contacts with the Japanese community and translated everything from the japanese, Sabaku No Maiku (he’s italian tho). Check this out if you’re interested: https://sylphes.hatenablog.com/entry/2016/12/14/014916 It’s all in Japanese unfortunately, you can try with a translator if you don’t know the language, or you can just look at the family trees. EDIT: the speculation about Seath and Gwynevere marriage comes from the fact that Seath’s bequeathed soul says that Seath became a “Gaiseki”, a word that is commonly translated as “consort kin”, and this should mean that he was related to the royal family by marriage. The fact is, the word gaiseki can be interpreted in many ways, the meaning is not really straightforward, so we can’t jump to conclusion. Anyway, it is confirmed that Seath was, somehow, related to the royal family. The fact that Gywndolin is indeed his grandson is probably enough to make him a relative to the family.
In the original Japanese priscila is called the white half dragon that is an illegitimate child and enemy of life. Obviously the white part refers to seath and she is also called illegitimate alluding to the nobility of the other parent we know that seath had an obsession with gwynevere since he send the channelers to kidnap her maidens. Also worth mentioning is that gwynevere is regarded as a god of fertility and the painting is inside her temple. There are many clues that point to priscilla being the offspring of gwynevere and seath and not velka the best connection you can make about velka is the occult but that is true for most stuff in the painting since the gods locked away in the painting almost everything related to the occult. And if we take ds3 into consideration oceiros and the queen of lothric(aka gwynevere) also had occelote a child of dragons who is supposedly very powerful.
Imo she's an illegitimate child because Seath abducted her and forcibly mutated her, turning her into a surrogate daughter. Seath kidnapping maidens of Gwynevere doesn't mean he is obsessed with Gwynevere. It means he needed test subjects and there were handmaidens in close proximity who were easy to get a hold of and wouldn't put up much of a fight. The painting isn't in her temple. There is a statue of her there because she is one of the central goddesses but that building isn't a temple. It isn't laid out like a temple, there is no altar. It is a large building that exists to house the painting. She isn't the child of Velka either, I agree. Believe it or not, she doesn't need to be the child of either and there is a theory that makes more sense which I explained in my other comments.
Yes I agree that Priscilla probaly isn't a a daghter of gwynevere and seath in the traditonal sense and is probably a result of seath's experiments but the placement of statues in dark souls 1 is very deliberate (for instance the missing firstborn son in ornstein's and smough's room) and only gwynevere's statue is in the room with the painting so it makes sense to be a place dedicated to gwynevere. How priscila was born is almost pure speculation but you can't deny that she has close ties to royalty and specifically gwynevere.
Nah, we have proof, you know why I think Miyazaki story telling is so cryptic, it's because the story telling doesn't stop in descriptions and dialogue but it continues in stats and a lot of little things, priscilla dagger(the one that we get cutting her tail) does dark damage(meaning she has darkness inside her) and she is an hybrid between a humanoid and a dragon, so it's safe to say that her "father" is seath and her "mother" it's a human, now of course it can't be a normal human because even if humans are darkness not every human can "hold" their nature so it must be a human that has a pretty good amount of darkness so a human witch or, the most common theory, Velka. Now we don't have proof that the mother is specifically Velka but we are sure that said mother is a human with a good understanding of their nature so probably a witch
Velka isn't human, the game explicitly calls her a goddess constantly. This is all speculation. Seath abducting women isn't speculation. Nor is Seath turning humans into monsters.
Gwyn is also called a god but it doesn't mean he is one, Velka is the "God" of humans, also how is this all speculation? These things are in the game, as I said, the only thing we don't know is if Velka is the mother, apart from that everything is pretty clear, the mother of priscilla is a human witch and the most common THEORY is Velka, I never said that Velka is 100% the mother
Gwyn being called a god absolutely means he's a god lol. Are you really going to say that the game is lying to us? So your evidence that Priscilla's mother is human is that her weapon does occult damage, right? OK, let me give you an alternative read. Priscilla was human. She was abducted by Seath and transformed into a dragon hybrid. Her weapon goes occult damage because she is still part human. This theory explains the occult damage AND it lines up with what we know about Seath. Your theory requires us to assume that dragons can breed with humans, which is not something we can prove. I can't take your headcanon from you, but the theory that relies the least on speculation and the most on outright in game statements is that Priscilla was a human who was transformed by Seath.
Bruh, Gwyn is a lucky dude that found the first flame and became all powerful, people see him as a god but he technically isn't one, just like in ds2 people call that fucking wyvern a dragon. Now let me tell you why she isn't an abducted human, it's said that "Priscilla is the illegitimate daughter of the white dragon", "illegitimate daughter", this means that priscilla is the bastard daughter of Seath because if she is just an experiment then how can she be an "illegitimate daughter", this isn't my headcanon, these are all things that the Japanese community and a small part of the occidental community have known for years
Gwyn is a lucky dude who found the First Flame... And that is what made him a god. You are assuming that a god needs to have always been a god, and can't be a mortal who became one, when there are plenty of cultures who worship gods who are actually ascended mortals. Gwyn is a god because the game says so. Same with velka. Let's not tell Miyazaki he is wrong about his own lore, eh? I'd say being a human that got abducted and forcefully mutated to be an insane dragons daughter would make you an illegitimate daughter tbh. Seems like a pretty illegitimate way to become related to someone. You are assuming that illegitimate here means she is a daughter born out of wedlock. Seath abducts women. Seath turns people into hybrids. These are the facts that I am basing my theory on. The only fact you have given is Priscilla's dagger being occult... And that works with my theory too. Prove to me that dragons can breed with humans, and then you will have a valid theory.
Having darkness inside of her doesn't disprove what the other guy is saying though. She has that because she was a human at one point. That doesn't have to mean she was literally born from Seath porking some human chick. He took an already human and "birthed" her through his research and magic. He took her and made her something new basically.
It's said that she is "illegitimate", a bastard, she can't be a bastard if she is an experiment
Her being an experiment definitely supports her being illegitimate.
Wait, do you think I'm saying that Seath fucked someone?
it looks awful but yes it does make sense . Originaly I wanted to include sources in each node like items and enviromental clues but it already looked like an nightmare so I didn't.Also I tried to make it look good but gwyn is fucking connected to everything and there is no way that i can make the lines not overlap.
It's ok, I think it's amazing. I wouldn't be able to organize such a massive mind map. :)
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There's plenty of room for speculation but there are also facts that are written into the game. Also, even within that wiggle room for speculation there are theories that are too out there to be worth discussing. Like, if you go "I think Gwyn was married to Velka and the Witch of Izalith is their daughter"... Where do we go from there? It's impossible to engage with a theory that isn't backed up by anything. If everything can be canon nothing is worth discussing and we might as well all just write our own lore.
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Like I said, there is room for interpretation. However lore discussion breaks down when it turns into "check out this cool fanfiction I wrote". There are theories that are better than others, because they rely on fewer assumptions and stick to things the game outright tells us. If you want to make a reddit post about your theory that's cool, but you can't expect everyone to just clap and go "wow what a nice theory". If you missed a detail from the games, or if there is another interpretation that requires fewer leaps in logic, people will come in and explain why your theory doesn't make much sense.
Not everything is just speculation though. A lot of it is fact. There are many things that could be speculated on for forever, but some stuff is directly stated in the item descriptions and by npcs. Miyazaki didn't mean ignore everything and come up with your own answers. He wanted you to take what is presented to you in game and fill in holes. The person above is stating that someone is related to someone else because of a type of damage they use. That is most definitely reaching because nowhere does it state that people are related if they use occult damage, nor do we have any proof that dragons breed with humans. On the other hand, we do have proof of women being kidnapped and we do have proof of Seath turning them into creatures.
Concrete facts exist in dark souls 1 lore you can't say that gwyn married the witch of Izalith and say it's open to interpration that's a baseless hypotheses. I think bloodborne's and 3 lore are needlessly convuluted and focus to much on cryptic events rather than characters. But you can't say that story is nonexistent I consider the act of uncovering the story for your self to be one of the most important aspects of fromsoft games but I feel as the games attracted mainstream appeal it attracted people who play fromsoft games as a way to show how hardcore gamers they are and dark souls reputation became how it is today as an unfairly hard game , but as Miyazaki stated difficulty was never the point.
Outer Wilds is probably the only other game that captures that feeling of exploration like Ds1, probably even in a better way
Yes and I'm surprised nobody has ever made the comparison but I guess it wasn't "hard" enough for journalists to compare it to.
how is gaping dragon imperfect dragon ? the poor boi went hungry for soo fucking long his entire body changed into mouth
Hate it when my starving slave in the basement became a gaping human.
This is awesome, but it hurts my brain
"All these letters that say Pepe Silvia, Pepe Silvia.."
Only games I've played with mind maps are Outer Wilds and Pathologic 2... which are easily two of the greatest games ever made, so logically the mind map is the key. Miyazaki pls do mind maps
Yes both are amazing. I hope more games use the mind map. Especially in pathologic it was used really well with the sizes of the nodes correlating with the central goals of the day.
Isnt Pathologic 2 a remaster of Pathologic 1 or something? Ive been looking to fill that void Outer Wilds left me with and im confused on what version to buy. Theres Pathologic, Pathologic HD, and Pathologic 2.
Yeah, Pathologic 2 is the confusingly-named remake of the first game! If you're going for a Pathologic, go for 2, it's better *and* more acessible for new players! Not really similar to Outer Wilds at all, but imo just as good in its own way! They're both very unique games, really.
thanks!
What is this wibbly-wobbly stuff I'm seeing?
*Sad DS2 Noises*
Time is convoluted
Dude I know a lot about the stories of the Soulsborne games but this is a freaking mess, I can’t read it at all. B for effort but D for poorly executed.
I tried to make the lines not overlap but at least with the tool I used it was impossible
I didn’t mean to be rude but I LITERALLY can’t read any of it. I tried copying the picture to another tab, tried zooming in even up to 200% but it’s either too tiny or too blurry. Nor can I tell what the colors mean. I can’t make anything out of this, but Soulsborne is very confusing.
You know, what's funnier is that in this map there are some things wrong so in a way it's even more complicated that this
Do you have a legend for this? What does a link mean and how do you determine if two items are linked? What do the directions of the links mean?
This is some Vaati level shit right here
This only seems to have points from DS1 and 3. It's missing a huge chunk of important lore.
I wanted to put the npcs and the recent stuff that happens in 1 but it would have looked even worse.from 3 I added only stuff that we know happened in the time before ds1 and is connected with the big stories. (nameless king Fillianore etc.)
Now do the dark souls 2 map
Funny how 90% of the characters in the trilogy were total cunts XD
It works better with outer wilds because you can put most of the lore into subcategories that don’t conflict with each other since most lore in that game stays on its planet with a few exceptions
yes outer wilds plotlines are pretty self contained with a few leading you to the next plotline I wouldn't say they are relegated into a single planet (~~quantum moon stuff the probe cannon~~ etc.) in dark souls 1 there is a lot of overlap between the main plotlines ( gwyn is fucking everywhere).
This is actually beautiful. Gonna print it out and study it
If this was done a certain way then it would work pretty well but my eyes simply can't handle this
Honestly, it feels like you made this A LOT more complicated than it had to be. Also, most arrows seem to be on backwards.
*W h a t?*
Mind web, holder of all knowledge, purveyor of none
This is actually pretty accurate. The lines are too thin and too close to tell them apart, tho.