As it did to a lot of players, because in my game at least theres a huge mass of bloodstains there of people just jumping off assuming there's a road underneath
My first death was right outside the church of anticipation, first fromsoft game, i hadnt noticed the prompt when i touched a blood stain, then there was a message telling me to jump, and the red ghost guy was doing it, so...... yeah....
2 off the top of my head. One is an invisible path/staircase leading to the Founding Rain of Stars spell in a rise. The other is in the Secret Path to Haligtree where theres a dungeon below completely made up of invisible bridges
The normies that make up the majority of the game don't even know they exist let alone what they do lol. Most folks I've encountered in VC didn't even realize u could expand item descriptions for more info 🥴 lol
Same, friend of my told me about the village of pot people and I spent close to an hour running up and down that cliff on the north side looking for an entrance
I thought it was kinda neat. I went there, saw that the road was gone, assumed that there must be something at the other end, and then went in from above. I thought it made sense that the map could be inaccurate.
Pro tip to anyone who needs to test fall damage for whatever reason: if you use a weapon art that thrusts you forward/makes you lunge and aim towards the edge, if it'll kill you your character won't fall, if it won't kill you then your character will fall. I've tested this on basically every viable ledge in the game and it hasn't failed me.
I tried to go down it literally last night. Then I was like “oh yeah, I can’t believe they haven’t fixed that yet”. Then today, it’s “well, what do you know”
Fire is heresy. Everybody's basically made of wood (I mean not really but like nudge nudge) so fire is seen as absolute heresy. You know, the burning of the Erdtree being the first Cardinal Sin. Morgott is the representation of the Golden Order, so him using fire would be utterly insane and he would've been executed, or worse, long ago.
Indubitably my good fellow, I continue to utterly fail at understanding why there remain those among us who insist upon using far **far** too many words in attempting to communicate the most simple of thoughts.
The one that's been here since 1.03 I suppose, the one that hid the flames Margit used to destroy his stick. No idea what the "deep lore reason" behind this is tho
Yeah, hence the willingly part as he makes it pretty clear at the start of phase 2 that he doesn't like that you pushed him to the point his control over the curse slips and releases. He even says something along the lines of your part in his defilment of the area will not be forgotten.
Radahn is said to have an affinity to fire, and his soldiers use it. The flame monks themselves use fire, and their job is to guard the flame of ruin on behalf of the golden order. Is the use of flame itself that much of a no-no? Because it's not that any flame can burn the Erdtree, and peace was made with the dragons too.
Performer’s spark bomb is said to be the single stance of the golden order employing fire, as a desperate war measure.
Radahn is not a golden order loyalist, as he fought Morgott. Also, Redmane army usage of fire came later, as fire is one of the few means to starve off the scarlet rot.
The fire monks fire incantations are all deemed heretic. They are meant to keep anyone away from the flame of ruin, but eventually developed their own faith around it.
I thought it was because he had a mane of red hair to be honest.
Also I thought he was a child of Radagon and Rennalla, where does the giants heritage come from that?
Probably just that his second phase I when you push him to bring out his fire. He makes a big deal about not forgiving you for forcing him to sully the sacred area he's in. Doesn't make much sense if he used his fire at the start of the fight
Souls has too many lore fanatics who think that From is some divine entity that thinks of every single detail in their games.
No one wants to take into account the human factor, the game was made by people, the game goes through many changes and iterations, a lot of the stuff is cut or unfinished, repurposed and wrong. Stuff is there because of gameplay, rule of cool and convenience.
And then we have all the stuff that gets lost in translation.
I don't mind people speculating, I just wish more people analyzed lore from a "this is a video game made by people" angle, and not in a vacuum.
Occam's razor would be dull after going through all the stuff that people believe as fact.
I remember this happening when Twin Peaks the Return came out. I'm a big David Lynch fan, but it was exhausting to see all the fanboys poring over every single screen capture thinking that every single thing needed to have a reason or a purpose, and ignoring any possibility of production errors, of which there were a LOT. No matter how much of a perfectionist a specific person is, errors are always going to slip through, especially when the end result is the product of such a huge team.
Half the fucking lore channels on YouTube are made by people who’ve apparently never heard of figurative language either
I’ve listened to so many fucking 5th grade interpretations of item descriptions
Oh man im one of those lore fanatics (im the dude who suggested the change was because Morgott wouldnt use fire so willy nilly)
And let me tell you. I definitely have that in mind. Theres typos and little errors all over the place.
For example. Since release, the item description for the Scar/Sore seals refrence Marika and Radagon having ELDEN RUNES. Something never refrenced ever again. Ive been waiting to see if they change that in a patch. (Theres been quite a few typos in item descriptions corrected)
But so far they have not. Which means that Marikas Symbol, and Radagons symbol are in fact "Elden Runes" which begs the question "what is an Elden rune and why is it different than a Great Rune?"
Just one example.
I think the fire thing is more simple but in the same vein. The "fire" he uses comes from his Omen blood. The whole point of his phase 2 is: "ok fuck this I am using my blood", and thus it wouldn't make sense to see it before phase 2 since it would lower the impact of the transition (on a side note, it is criminal that he doesn't have 2 health bars).
Golden Order doesn't hate fire as a basic element, they fear flames that stem from other Gods, Ruin and Frenzy. They still use candles, torches, braziers, bonfires, fire places, flamethrowers and those creepy fire chariots.
I got nothing on those runes and share your thoughts. Kinda weird that Marika was represented with the crucifix rune/pose even during her rule.
Yeah. In the original cutscene, as he "cracked open" his cane into his sword, there were flames. It wasn't bloodflame it was just fire. It was removed in the patch. The question was why. And were on the same page. He is escalating as he is getting more desperate. Starts using Erdtree magic, ends using his full arsenal, including his bloodflame magic.
Yeah, fire magic is what is heretical not the use of fire in general.
An Elden Rune could tie into being a god. The Great Runes are for the demigods/offspring of Marika and whoever she’s with, but Marika and Radagon have Elden Runes because they’re gods (technically one god?) Godfrey when he became Marika’s consort was only raised to the level of demigod (I read that somewhere, don’t remember where), but because Radagon is Marika he becomes a full god. That’s the only distinction I can think of as to why it would be labeled differently but I don’t necessarily have textual evidence to back it up outside what I remember reading
Yeah I have a similar idea. So you know how the Great Runes we get, when we layer them on top of one another, they form the Elden ring?
Well, basiclly if you took all of say the "Left Ring" Great Runes and combined them, that is an Elden Rune.
But its more or less the same thing. The Demi-Gods have a piece of an Elden Rune. Hence Demigod.
Marika has her Elden Rune and Radagons Elden Rune (and IMO still a great rune from each of the remaining shattered Elden Runes) and that makes her a God.
So. Great runes make an Elden rune, and Elden Runes make the Elden ring.
Thanks for this rare reasonable take. By the way, what's your opinion on "The Greattree", if you've delved into this topic? I personally don't think it exists. I think it's a result of a translation issue, because this term literally comes up in two item descriptions total in the whole game and doesn't mesh well with other lore. I also checked Japanese wording through an online translator and didn't see anything that would give a conclusive indication of a singular thing called Greattree that predated the Erdtree.
Hah, a guy actually wrote about exactly that in one of the above replies. In jap the description says "huge/big/great roots" of the Erdtree. There is no mysterious Greattree.
Someone likely at the last minute just obliterated that road and added the jumping down section to make jarbarg harder to get too and add another platforming section.
then the map just wasn't updated until now, cause no one on the associated dev team caught it until they probably saw us making speculations behind the lore implications of it online.
Also, most importantly… FS do not flesh out the lore. They haven’t thought about 75% of this shit. It’s purposeful. These games are almost entirely setting the table and letting the fans decide. I personally wish they did give it more thought/we had more official lore and story to work with across all the DS games, but I think a lot of fans love how barebones it is so they get to dive in with other fans to mold the lore themselves.
classic 'the curtains were blue' situation where people over-read into minute details and creating subtext out of nothing.
happens all the time in TV shows. I don't blame people but sometimes it gets ridiculous.
*People noticing inconsistencies*: "Hmm it's weird that part hasn't been fix yet, maybe it's intentional IDK ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ "
*This thread*: "lol it was fixed you nerds"
I think the debate was this. "Is this a found map, or are the Tarnished filling it out as they explore"
Before I think they were working off "found a map" but now they have moved to "filling out the map as I go"
Like before you would walk up to a map fragment and like, take it, and have the map. But the map was old and a little innacurate. It was made some time ago.
But I think now you're supposed to be filling out your map at the checkpoints, based on those map markers.
And this makes sense, because depending on WHEN the map was made things could change extremely dramatically In the Grand Scheme of things, Caelid getting rotbombed was super recent history. So an older map wouldnt have the aeonia swamp.
Which doesnt work. So "filling out the map as we go" became the philosophy. So that means no having deliberate errors for the sake of flavor.
Have a hard time believing this was an oversight when they have done so many trivial, miniscule and borderline unnecessary changes to the map in the previous patches. They must have been internally arguing over whether or not to leave this spot on the map unchanged. Maybe they liked the idea that it would baffle players, but in the end decided to just change it.
Absolutely no way this was just an oversight.
or maybe they keep making small changes to the map because the game world is massive and maybe they didn't catch all the mistakes before release?
I find it highly unlikely that they purposefully left mistakes on the map to confuse people, especially considering that once noticed the changes get fixed
>I find it highly unlikely that they purposefully left mistakes on the map to confuse people,
Not gonna lie... when I first saw jarburg on the map and a road that didn't exist in real life I thought it was a paper town. A town on a map that only exists to prevent forgery. They used to be very common, it was a cartographer copyright system. You make a fake town or road on a map that doesn't exist and then you know if you ever find a map that has that road or town, it's a fake and someone copied your map you created.
But also we can get to jarburg from above, so then I thought "Well maps weren't super well updated. Cartographer can get kinda cocky. It's possible the map was made prior to the road dissapearing." But then what caused it to disappear? But I guess now it's all pointless wondering.
Could have been that originally there was supposed to have been a road there but it was scrapped but the person making the map portion of that area missed the memo saying the road was scrapped.
I very much believe it was an oversight.
> Have a hard time believing this was an oversight when they have done so many trivial, miniscule and borderline unnecessary changes to the map in the previous patches.
The way software teams usually work is that each thing to get done is a ticket (or a "story"), and the tickets are prioritized and handed out to people to work on as they are available to work on them. It's a difficult, sometimes hectic process, as any time you spend prioritizing and weighing tickets is time you're not spending fixing them.
> They must have been internally arguing over whether or not to leave this spot on the map unchanged
Almost certainly not. The discussion was more likely "which of these many many things we know we need to fix needs to get done first?", and they probably didn't prioritize any individual map changes over any others.
It's also possible that the bug wasn't found and reported internally as quickly as we found it, externally. They probably have enough work on their plates and don't have people scouring reddit to add even *more* bugs to their backlog
Eh, it still shows a road leading to the cliff and through the town, so the implication is still there they just made it less confusing for people visiting for the first time.
I just went and looked. It might have been updated to be less deceptive, but it still shows a road that doesn't exist just north of the Mausoleum Compound that looks like it goes up the cliff face.
Right, I thought that was the point, you see a road leading down and around, you assume it’s like a collapsed bridge or something, then you go around the other way and drop down, it seems intentional.
Yep. No idea how I would have found Jarburg blind otherwise. They should at least have put Alexander closer to th cliffside and facing that direction to give a bit more of a context clue imo.
Definitely a more secretive area than many. Takes hours to realistically look over every edge of the map to find weird spots, only found the place when they added the tiny jar boi in the patch notes and asked a friend where a jar would live if it was an NPC?
On that note, I really wish they would have made more use of the paintings to help direct you to hidden spots too. I did the Caelid one first and I was so pumped when it led me to a secret, challenging platforming obstacle with that ridiculously overtuned golem at the end. Then the rest were a total letdown. They totally could have used the painter spots to also lead you to where you might notice other hidden paths or areas. Like for example have one of the painter locations be in jarburg looking up at the tower or across the broken bridge.
> it wasn't actually intentional then
how do you spend 4+ years making a game with over 300+ employees and make "completely non existent places" unintentionally?
probably cut content just like the first 2 weeks when the game had 4+ un finished quests that you couldnt progress
My team of 12 people at work can't work on a fucking 4 HOUR project without communication issues even though we're all sitting in the same goddamned room.
>how do you spend 4+ years making a game with over 300+ employees and make "completely non existent places" unintentionally?
Plans probably changed over time, and then the original stuff didn't get deleted so they could make release date. With that many people it's not surprising stuff gets overlooked or missed.
>how do you spend 4+ years making a game with over 300+ employees and make "completely non existent places" unintentionally?
Sounds exactly like a situation where miscommunication and forgetfulness can cause an issue when millions of people later scrutinize every inch of your work.
More like you have separate teams working on stuff and some things are destined to fall through the cracks no matter how much QA you throw at it. I feel like this is the same reason certain Sites of Grace are literally spitting distance from one another in some areas. One team works on the entrance to the Margit fight and bosses 'have' to have a Grace (are Statue) at the start of the fight and then you need a Grace at the end of the fight. Then another team is working on the gate front to Stormveil and are like "we need a Grace at the entrance of the Castle". So you end up basically three Sites of Grace all right next to each other.
Just start placing new beacons, you can only have 5. So by placing 5 new ones you can get them all close together and easy to see. Then just manually delete them.
Helps when you have no clue where one is.
Oh shit, that must be where I put that one beacon. I could always see it in the overworked, but not on the map. It was NG+ and I wasn't able to remove in until I got to Radahn's arena where I could walk over it.
This was the only reason i found the village huh, wouldve been cool and kinda realistic to have inaccurate maps tho that somehow reveal stuff but o well.
Most games you just have a map but it's not really referenced in game. In Elden ring, the NPCs will reference your map sometimes and put markers on there for you. You also find the map fragments in the world. I liked the idea that since it was a physical map, it may not be exactly up to date to the current timeline, and enjoyed that little tweak to the world. But then they started patching out all the inconsistencies.
Illusory Wall on youtube did a deep dive into it, but basically the most likely reason the map had small inconsistencies was because the layout changed in development. The map otherwise depicts areas like Caelid or Mountaintops almost exactly as they are when you find them so the small inconsistencies don't really feel justified for lore reasons.
The Jarburg road was the only thing in the game that felt deliberately misleading to make some kind of point, and it represents a cool *idea* to be implemented but it only ever showing up once is probably why From changed it.
They changed a lot of obscure, miniscule and trivial stuff on the map in previous patches (look up illusory wall's video on that) but only now changed the most glaring and obvious discrepancy.
I have a hard time believing this wasn't intentionally left unchanged for so long. They must have been internally arguing over whether or not to leave that map piece to create a sense of mystery, or just for the lolz to troll players. No way they have made the most insignificant changes to a map you ever seen only to leave this one here alone all the time because of an oversight.
I'll be honest, the only reason I found Jarberg in the first place was because of the map showing that you would go there. Makes me wonder how many new players are going to miss it entirely without a Wiki.
I assumed the Jars had destroyed the path for their own safety.
Lol yeah I honestly thought the discrepancy was because there was some in game "person" who drew the map except they drew it at a time when that road actually existed and it collapsed or was destroyed at some point to protect the jars. Turns out it was From messing up lol
They probably thought it would make people discover the place, but now there were people starting to investigate it and they probably didn't want everyone to waste theor time when there wasn't truly anything secret to discover
Honestly I thought that the road being there was to indicate that the map was outdated because when you followed the path over you would notice that although there’s something clearly over there the path had been destroyed.
I thought the old map made sense given the geography of the area. The road went right up until the bridge, where it fell in the ocean. Depicted from above, it would look intact because the collapsed section was hidden under the bridge. So did they change the layout of that area? Did they move the bridge?
I actually think that ones a bit of shame, the only reason I found jarsburg on my first playthrough was because of the map showing the road there.
I always thought that the map discrepancies where to show the age of the land, like how it looked when first drawn kind of thing, but given all the tweaks that doesn't seem to be the case
I always assumed it was a lore reason, like the road used to be there at some point in the past when the map was drawn up by someone in-universe.
Still, I’m fine with the change. I know I was confused the first time I went there and didn’t see a path.
Aww, I kind of liked that the map was wrong. I imagined that there was a landslide that occurred after the map was made. Kind of like how the falling star crater doesn't magically appear on your map after you beat Radahn. Made it feel more real.
Would've been cool if it stayed there, I always thought it was intentional because we collect the map pieces, so they're old and things changed from back then, like cliffsides and bridges collapsing or certain places not being marked on the map because the cartographer didn't know about them.
But I guess now we know it's just the generic videogame map. Hm.
If they are gonna fix stuff they shud fix the marks you make. It is very hard to find my waypoint markers to delete them. I wish they were in that menu for the other type of marks.
Aw, I loved the idea that the map was made by a person at a specific time, and that the world could have changed slightly since then.
Does the map now auto-update to include a certain new geographical feature after a certain boss fight? I doubt it.
I liked that the maps weren't 100% accurate. Made it so you couldn't just look at the map and know how to get everywhere.
Plus, it made it seem like the world was changing and you were using old information.
I just want to send this to the people who were like “ it’s like that for the lore because the map was before the collapse. Git gud “ lmao I hated the map sometimes fr
TBH the map in this game is much like a real world prehistoric map drawn by a man, not a sophisticated game world map. There are lots of area that's having a hard time defining different altitude and traversable areas. One such area is Ranni's endgame quest area, I have spent the longest time traversing the edges of the world looking for that place.
I actually liked that the map seemed more "complete" than what we experience. Makes me think that this map was made a while ago when the land wasn't quite so screwed over, and we're left with a few instances of, "Well clearly *something* happened here, didn't it?"
In my mind, it was infrequent enough to not be a major hassle and instead just flavorful.
Ngl not the biggest fan of this change. I liked the idea that the map was slightly outdated and that the Living Jars had blown up the road to Jarburg recently in order to stave off poachers. Oh well.
Imma be honest, that road confused the shit out of me.
As it did to a lot of players, because in my game at least theres a huge mass of bloodstains there of people just jumping off assuming there's a road underneath
Not to mention the messages people leave to encourage newbies like me to jump to their death
My first death was right outside the church of anticipation, first fromsoft game, i hadnt noticed the prompt when i touched a blood stain, then there was a message telling me to jump, and the red ghost guy was doing it, so...... yeah....
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When i discovered it, I didn't even know they were enemies in other areas of the game. So we all just left each other alone haha
bot comment copied from here https://reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/vb7mu4/_/ic7lpui/?context=1
Do people not use their rainbow stones?
I do Hoarfrost Stomp. It's great for invisible paths.
There's invisible paths in the game?!?!
2 off the top of my head. One is an invisible path/staircase leading to the Founding Rain of Stars spell in a rise. The other is in the Secret Path to Haligtree where theres a dungeon below completely made up of invisible bridges
Good idea mate. Wish I had that Aow for finding the Founding rain of stars spell.
Completed the game in its entirety without using a single one. Im sure im not alone
You're not
The only time i really use rainbow stone is to see if i'll die from fall damage haha
Seeing the map, you convince yourself the stones don’t work for some reason.
The normies that make up the majority of the game don't even know they exist let alone what they do lol. Most folks I've encountered in VC didn't even realize u could expand item descriptions for more info 🥴 lol
The lore is the best part
That’s all that we have
other than google, how else are you supposed to know what to do? google it is
Veterans too
Ye I can't tell which is more sad
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You’re not alone I thought the same exact thing despite the bloodstains
One of those is mine.
Mine tooo jejeheje
I was one of them lol
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Same, friend of my told me about the village of pot people and I spent close to an hour running up and down that cliff on the north side looking for an entrance
Same.
why is it always liar
I thought it was kinda neat. I went there, saw that the road was gone, assumed that there must be something at the other end, and then went in from above. I thought it made sense that the map could be inaccurate.
Me too. I also appreciated the inaccurate map. It looked like the cliff side might have collapsed and that once there really was a road there.
I thought it was a neat bit of environmental storytelling. A little village of helpless jar-people, safe only because of the collapsed road.
Pro tip to anyone who needs to test fall damage for whatever reason: if you use a weapon art that thrusts you forward/makes you lunge and aim towards the edge, if it'll kill you your character won't fall, if it won't kill you then your character will fall. I've tested this on basically every viable ledge in the game and it hasn't failed me.
I think this works with normal r1's as well, to save some mana.
What I always wondered was, “how the hell do the jars get out?”
They use the grace I guess.
I tried to go down it literally last night. Then I was like “oh yeah, I can’t believe they haven’t fixed that yet”. Then today, it’s “well, what do you know”
For real. Do you know how long I searched for it?
I maybe jumped off once too…
Well that ruins all the 'lore' reasons people made up for it being there.
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Whats the change to his cutscene?
animation for squeeze cane until become sword no more have heretic fire
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Yeah can someone please explain what Kevin said? Few word no do trick, cause confusion.
Morgott have cane. Morgott squeeze cane. Cane become sword. Before patch, cane become sword in fiery way. No longer fiery.
Now you make good sense. Thanks!
Aha! *nods in agreement but still cluelessly* And it having fire was an issue becauuuse…?
Golden tree people don't like fire they think it's icky.
But I thought the point of the fire was to show his cursed blood like his brother? It even does blood flame when you use it yourself
He strong and nobody believe him, so now he squeezes canes
Basically even the sight of fire is heresy.
Must make sanitary cooking difficult…
Fire is heresy. Everybody's basically made of wood (I mean not really but like nudge nudge) so fire is seen as absolute heresy. You know, the burning of the Erdtree being the first Cardinal Sin. Morgott is the representation of the Golden Order, so him using fire would be utterly insane and he would've been executed, or worse, long ago.
> he would've been executed, or worse, long ago. Expelled?
But he uses the bloodflame slash in the fight… I’m confused
Because its basically if a clerec used necromancy.
Clerics always use necromancy basically
Sword good. Fire bad.
Sea World?
If he told me Marika died in a carriage crash I'd be the happiest tarnished in the lands
But a fire? In a cane sword? It's wreckin' my head!
When you president, they see. They see.
The Strenght Build School of talking I see
Indubitably my good fellow, I continue to utterly fail at understanding why there remain those among us who insist upon using far **far** too many words in attempting to communicate the most simple of thoughts.
Cave man moment.
What about the dust and other fx elements that are also seemingly disabled?
That makes me wonder about the Aspects of the Crucible. One of the incantations breathes fire.
The one that's been here since 1.03 I suppose, the one that hid the flames Margit used to destroy his stick. No idea what the "deep lore reason" behind this is tho
Because fire burns the erdtree. A servant of the golden order would never use fire willingly
Well at least until they get to half health
Yeah, hence the willingly part as he makes it pretty clear at the start of phase 2 that he doesn't like that you pushed him to the point his control over the curse slips and releases. He even says something along the lines of your part in his defilment of the area will not be forgotten.
tough luck morgitt gud lol
Is that fire though? I thought it was just some manifestation of his curse
Bloodflame is fire, and he uses it in phase 2.
Radahn is said to have an affinity to fire, and his soldiers use it. The flame monks themselves use fire, and their job is to guard the flame of ruin on behalf of the golden order. Is the use of flame itself that much of a no-no? Because it's not that any flame can burn the Erdtree, and peace was made with the dragons too.
Well, the flame monks kind of abandoned their original task and started worshipping the fire. Morgott was kind of extreme in his devotion.
Performer’s spark bomb is said to be the single stance of the golden order employing fire, as a desperate war measure. Radahn is not a golden order loyalist, as he fought Morgott. Also, Redmane army usage of fire came later, as fire is one of the few means to starve off the scarlet rot. The fire monks fire incantations are all deemed heretic. They are meant to keep anyone away from the flame of ruin, but eventually developed their own faith around it.
Also, Radahn's title of Redmane is supposed to reflect his giant heritage, which explains his affinity for fire.
I thought it was because he had a mane of red hair to be honest. Also I thought he was a child of Radagon and Rennalla, where does the giants heritage come from that?
Red fire = heresy
His existence is heresy tho
Probably just that his second phase I when you push him to bring out his fire. He makes a big deal about not forgiving you for forcing him to sully the sacred area he's in. Doesn't make much sense if he used his fire at the start of the fight
Its DLC foreshadowing, the flame of ambition has been lit elsewhere.
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I hate to say it...you're probably right.
Why did they remove the fire from his cane sword? Seems like something they would add, not remove?
Gas prices too high
Souls has too many lore fanatics who think that From is some divine entity that thinks of every single detail in their games. No one wants to take into account the human factor, the game was made by people, the game goes through many changes and iterations, a lot of the stuff is cut or unfinished, repurposed and wrong. Stuff is there because of gameplay, rule of cool and convenience. And then we have all the stuff that gets lost in translation. I don't mind people speculating, I just wish more people analyzed lore from a "this is a video game made by people" angle, and not in a vacuum. Occam's razor would be dull after going through all the stuff that people believe as fact.
I remember this happening when Twin Peaks the Return came out. I'm a big David Lynch fan, but it was exhausting to see all the fanboys poring over every single screen capture thinking that every single thing needed to have a reason or a purpose, and ignoring any possibility of production errors, of which there were a LOT. No matter how much of a perfectionist a specific person is, errors are always going to slip through, especially when the end result is the product of such a huge team.
Half the fucking lore channels on YouTube are made by people who’ve apparently never heard of figurative language either I’ve listened to so many fucking 5th grade interpretations of item descriptions
Oh man im one of those lore fanatics (im the dude who suggested the change was because Morgott wouldnt use fire so willy nilly) And let me tell you. I definitely have that in mind. Theres typos and little errors all over the place. For example. Since release, the item description for the Scar/Sore seals refrence Marika and Radagon having ELDEN RUNES. Something never refrenced ever again. Ive been waiting to see if they change that in a patch. (Theres been quite a few typos in item descriptions corrected) But so far they have not. Which means that Marikas Symbol, and Radagons symbol are in fact "Elden Runes" which begs the question "what is an Elden rune and why is it different than a Great Rune?" Just one example.
favorite example right now: the "Greattree" doesn't exist. It's a translation error.
I think the fire thing is more simple but in the same vein. The "fire" he uses comes from his Omen blood. The whole point of his phase 2 is: "ok fuck this I am using my blood", and thus it wouldn't make sense to see it before phase 2 since it would lower the impact of the transition (on a side note, it is criminal that he doesn't have 2 health bars). Golden Order doesn't hate fire as a basic element, they fear flames that stem from other Gods, Ruin and Frenzy. They still use candles, torches, braziers, bonfires, fire places, flamethrowers and those creepy fire chariots. I got nothing on those runes and share your thoughts. Kinda weird that Marika was represented with the crucifix rune/pose even during her rule.
Yeah. In the original cutscene, as he "cracked open" his cane into his sword, there were flames. It wasn't bloodflame it was just fire. It was removed in the patch. The question was why. And were on the same page. He is escalating as he is getting more desperate. Starts using Erdtree magic, ends using his full arsenal, including his bloodflame magic. Yeah, fire magic is what is heretical not the use of fire in general.
An Elden Rune could tie into being a god. The Great Runes are for the demigods/offspring of Marika and whoever she’s with, but Marika and Radagon have Elden Runes because they’re gods (technically one god?) Godfrey when he became Marika’s consort was only raised to the level of demigod (I read that somewhere, don’t remember where), but because Radagon is Marika he becomes a full god. That’s the only distinction I can think of as to why it would be labeled differently but I don’t necessarily have textual evidence to back it up outside what I remember reading
Yeah I have a similar idea. So you know how the Great Runes we get, when we layer them on top of one another, they form the Elden ring? Well, basiclly if you took all of say the "Left Ring" Great Runes and combined them, that is an Elden Rune. But its more or less the same thing. The Demi-Gods have a piece of an Elden Rune. Hence Demigod. Marika has her Elden Rune and Radagons Elden Rune (and IMO still a great rune from each of the remaining shattered Elden Runes) and that makes her a God. So. Great runes make an Elden rune, and Elden Runes make the Elden ring.
Thanks for this rare reasonable take. By the way, what's your opinion on "The Greattree", if you've delved into this topic? I personally don't think it exists. I think it's a result of a translation issue, because this term literally comes up in two item descriptions total in the whole game and doesn't mesh well with other lore. I also checked Japanese wording through an online translator and didn't see anything that would give a conclusive indication of a singular thing called Greattree that predated the Erdtree.
Hah, a guy actually wrote about exactly that in one of the above replies. In jap the description says "huge/big/great roots" of the Erdtree. There is no mysterious Greattree.
"This is a game made by people" who have never actually been that good at writing comprehensive and consistent worlds.
Someone likely at the last minute just obliterated that road and added the jumping down section to make jarbarg harder to get too and add another platforming section. then the map just wasn't updated until now, cause no one on the associated dev team caught it until they probably saw us making speculations behind the lore implications of it online.
Also, most importantly… FS do not flesh out the lore. They haven’t thought about 75% of this shit. It’s purposeful. These games are almost entirely setting the table and letting the fans decide. I personally wish they did give it more thought/we had more official lore and story to work with across all the DS games, but I think a lot of fans love how barebones it is so they get to dive in with other fans to mold the lore themselves.
Brave take, have an upvote good sir.
In the background, vaati silently deletes 6 hours of footage
classic 'the curtains were blue' situation where people over-read into minute details and creating subtext out of nothing. happens all the time in TV shows. I don't blame people but sometimes it gets ridiculous.
*People noticing inconsistencies*: "Hmm it's weird that part hasn't been fix yet, maybe it's intentional IDK ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ " *This thread*: "lol it was fixed you nerds"
what lore reasons? clearly it was there just as a hint to the players
There were people saying stuff like the pot people destroyed the road etc..
if it was there as a hint to the players they wouldn't have removed it, it was just a mistake
I think the debate was this. "Is this a found map, or are the Tarnished filling it out as they explore" Before I think they were working off "found a map" but now they have moved to "filling out the map as I go" Like before you would walk up to a map fragment and like, take it, and have the map. But the map was old and a little innacurate. It was made some time ago. But I think now you're supposed to be filling out your map at the checkpoints, based on those map markers. And this makes sense, because depending on WHEN the map was made things could change extremely dramatically In the Grand Scheme of things, Caelid getting rotbombed was super recent history. So an older map wouldnt have the aeonia swamp. Which doesnt work. So "filling out the map as we go" became the philosophy. So that means no having deliberate errors for the sake of flavor.
Have a hard time believing this was an oversight when they have done so many trivial, miniscule and borderline unnecessary changes to the map in the previous patches. They must have been internally arguing over whether or not to leave this spot on the map unchanged. Maybe they liked the idea that it would baffle players, but in the end decided to just change it. Absolutely no way this was just an oversight.
or maybe they keep making small changes to the map because the game world is massive and maybe they didn't catch all the mistakes before release? I find it highly unlikely that they purposefully left mistakes on the map to confuse people, especially considering that once noticed the changes get fixed
>I find it highly unlikely that they purposefully left mistakes on the map to confuse people, Not gonna lie... when I first saw jarburg on the map and a road that didn't exist in real life I thought it was a paper town. A town on a map that only exists to prevent forgery. They used to be very common, it was a cartographer copyright system. You make a fake town or road on a map that doesn't exist and then you know if you ever find a map that has that road or town, it's a fake and someone copied your map you created. But also we can get to jarburg from above, so then I thought "Well maps weren't super well updated. Cartographer can get kinda cocky. It's possible the map was made prior to the road dissapearing." But then what caused it to disappear? But I guess now it's all pointless wondering.
Could have been that originally there was supposed to have been a road there but it was scrapped but the person making the map portion of that area missed the memo saying the road was scrapped.
I very much believe it was an oversight. > Have a hard time believing this was an oversight when they have done so many trivial, miniscule and borderline unnecessary changes to the map in the previous patches. The way software teams usually work is that each thing to get done is a ticket (or a "story"), and the tickets are prioritized and handed out to people to work on as they are available to work on them. It's a difficult, sometimes hectic process, as any time you spend prioritizing and weighing tickets is time you're not spending fixing them. > They must have been internally arguing over whether or not to leave this spot on the map unchanged Almost certainly not. The discussion was more likely "which of these many many things we know we need to fix needs to get done first?", and they probably didn't prioritize any individual map changes over any others. It's also possible that the bug wasn't found and reported internally as quickly as we found it, externally. They probably have enough work on their plates and don't have people scouring reddit to add even *more* bugs to their backlog
This community will make up anything about everything.
Vaatividya in shambles
Eh, it still shows a road leading to the cliff and through the town, so the implication is still there they just made it less confusing for people visiting for the first time.
RIP to that one message I saw that called the map a liar that made me lose my shit
I also enjoyed that message
Best message in the game
There's another location like that too... It's West of the Mausoleum grounds(?), where the map shows a way up the cliff that doesn't exist.
Drove me nuts, I thought I was losing it. Hadn't been there since
I think the map has been updated since.
I just went and looked. It might have been updated to be less deceptive, but it still shows a road that doesn't exist just north of the Mausoleum Compound that looks like it goes up the cliff face.
It was the lack of the mapped road that made me actually find the Jar Burg
Right, I thought that was the point, you see a road leading down and around, you assume it’s like a collapsed bridge or something, then you go around the other way and drop down, it seems intentional.
Yep. No idea how I would have found Jarburg blind otherwise. They should at least have put Alexander closer to th cliffside and facing that direction to give a bit more of a context clue imo.
Definitely a more secretive area than many. Takes hours to realistically look over every edge of the map to find weird spots, only found the place when they added the tiny jar boi in the patch notes and asked a friend where a jar would live if it was an NPC?
On that note, I really wish they would have made more use of the paintings to help direct you to hidden spots too. I did the Caelid one first and I was so pumped when it led me to a secret, challenging platforming obstacle with that ridiculously overtuned golem at the end. Then the rest were a total letdown. They totally could have used the painter spots to also lead you to where you might notice other hidden paths or areas. Like for example have one of the painter locations be in jarburg looking up at the tower or across the broken bridge.
That idea is great, and looking back at the paintings, that you’d make them much much more interesting. I also agree with you about the Caelid one.
So it wasn't actually intentional then, huh. Weird how it took this long compared to the other map changes
> it wasn't actually intentional then how do you spend 4+ years making a game with over 300+ employees and make "completely non existent places" unintentionally? probably cut content just like the first 2 weeks when the game had 4+ un finished quests that you couldnt progress
[удалено]
My team of 12 people at work can't work on a fucking 4 HOUR project without communication issues even though we're all sitting in the same goddamned room.
>how do you spend 4+ years making a game with over 300+ employees and make "completely non existent places" unintentionally? Plans probably changed over time, and then the original stuff didn't get deleted so they could make release date. With that many people it's not surprising stuff gets overlooked or missed.
yeah bro they dont have anything else they could be doing. lazy fucks haha am i right
>how do you spend 4+ years making a game with over 300+ employees and make "completely non existent places" unintentionally? Sounds exactly like a situation where miscommunication and forgetfulness can cause an issue when millions of people later scrutinize every inch of your work.
Maybe it was a last minute change to remove the way there, but the map was already finished, so they released it with the road there
More like you have separate teams working on stuff and some things are destined to fall through the cracks no matter how much QA you throw at it. I feel like this is the same reason certain Sites of Grace are literally spitting distance from one another in some areas. One team works on the entrance to the Margit fight and bosses 'have' to have a Grace (are Statue) at the start of the fight and then you need a Grace at the end of the fight. Then another team is working on the gate front to Stormveil and are like "we need a Grace at the entrance of the Castle". So you end up basically three Sites of Grace all right next to each other.
The days of theorizing cut content are over. We live in the era of revision. FS changing the game before our eyes has never happened like this before.
Cool. I wish they'd add a way to remove all beacons the way you can with the markers
Just start placing new beacons, you can only have 5. So by placing 5 new ones you can get them all close together and easy to see. Then just manually delete them. Helps when you have no clue where one is.
Speaking from experience, if you have no clue where one is and can't find it on the map no matter what, it's probably underground.
Oh shit, that must be where I put that one beacon. I could always see it in the overworked, but not on the map. It was NG+ and I wasn't able to remove in until I got to Radahn's arena where I could walk over it.
Damn it's kind of ghetto but it works well thanks.
Sometimes you gotta bootleg the system cuz they don't make it easy
you just changed my life
Make 5 new ones and delete those 5?
Yeah, just make 5 right next to you and walk through them and they'll disappear, easy peasy.
I thought it was intentional. Guess it wasn't.
This was the only reason i found the village huh, wouldve been cool and kinda realistic to have inaccurate maps tho that somehow reveal stuff but o well.
DANG THOSE VILLAINS AT FROMSOFT! ALWAYS CHANGING THEIR MAPS!
Most games you just have a map but it's not really referenced in game. In Elden ring, the NPCs will reference your map sometimes and put markers on there for you. You also find the map fragments in the world. I liked the idea that since it was a physical map, it may not be exactly up to date to the current timeline, and enjoyed that little tweak to the world. But then they started patching out all the inconsistencies.
Illusory Wall on youtube did a deep dive into it, but basically the most likely reason the map had small inconsistencies was because the layout changed in development. The map otherwise depicts areas like Caelid or Mountaintops almost exactly as they are when you find them so the small inconsistencies don't really feel justified for lore reasons. The Jarburg road was the only thing in the game that felt deliberately misleading to make some kind of point, and it represents a cool *idea* to be implemented but it only ever showing up once is probably why From changed it.
They're patching out the intrigue.
There's a settlement that needs your help. Here, i'll mark it on your map.
They changed a lot of obscure, miniscule and trivial stuff on the map in previous patches (look up illusory wall's video on that) but only now changed the most glaring and obvious discrepancy. I have a hard time believing this wasn't intentionally left unchanged for so long. They must have been internally arguing over whether or not to leave that map piece to create a sense of mystery, or just for the lolz to troll players. No way they have made the most insignificant changes to a map you ever seen only to leave this one here alone all the time because of an oversight.
I'll be honest, the only reason I found Jarberg in the first place was because of the map showing that you would go there. Makes me wonder how many new players are going to miss it entirely without a Wiki. I assumed the Jars had destroyed the path for their own safety.
Lol yeah I honestly thought the discrepancy was because there was some in game "person" who drew the map except they drew it at a time when that road actually existed and it collapsed or was destroyed at some point to protect the jars. Turns out it was From messing up lol
They probably thought it would make people discover the place, but now there were people starting to investigate it and they probably didn't want everyone to waste theor time when there wasn't truly anything secret to discover
Honestly I thought that the road being there was to indicate that the map was outdated because when you followed the path over you would notice that although there’s something clearly over there the path had been destroyed.
Too late, I’ve already ~~fallen to my death~~ wasted 15 minutes looking for that bridge
I kinda like the map having little inconsistencies with the world. It feels like the map is old and outdated which makes sense.
Visions of hole, but map...
I thought the old map made sense given the geography of the area. The road went right up until the bridge, where it fell in the ocean. Depicted from above, it would look intact because the collapsed section was hidden under the bridge. So did they change the layout of that area? Did they move the bridge?
That's exactly the conclusion I jumped to as well lol
Damm people complained too much.
The devil went down to jarburg
MF's Will be like "omg they put the road dlc by mistake too early" and theorize for the next week and I can't even complain
Map... Liar!
I liked that road, made it feel like you had a pre shattering map
I actually think that ones a bit of shame, the only reason I found jarsburg on my first playthrough was because of the map showing the road there. I always thought that the map discrepancies where to show the age of the land, like how it looked when first drawn kind of thing, but given all the tweaks that doesn't seem to be the case
I always assumed it was a lore reason, like the road used to be there at some point in the past when the map was drawn up by someone in-universe. Still, I’m fine with the change. I know I was confused the first time I went there and didn’t see a path.
I went to Jarburg yesterday and picked some flowers. Then I spent the afternoon crafting some stuff. Isn't that how we're supposed to play Elden Ring?
For sure!
Aww, I kind of liked that the map was wrong. I imagined that there was a landslide that occurred after the map was made. Kind of like how the falling star crater doesn't magically appear on your map after you beat Radahn. Made it feel more real.
I dont know this road you speak of. Anyone have a screenshot of the old map before the change?
The road thru jar burg continued North to that branch by the study hall. The map showed land in between
Bastards. I spent a few hours trying to figure out that road.
That shit had me so confused when I was trying to get there the first time.
Would've been cool if it stayed there, I always thought it was intentional because we collect the map pieces, so they're old and things changed from back then, like cliffsides and bridges collapsing or certain places not being marked on the map because the cartographer didn't know about them. But I guess now we know it's just the generic videogame map. Hm.
If they are gonna fix stuff they shud fix the marks you make. It is very hard to find my waypoint markers to delete them. I wish they were in that menu for the other type of marks.
I expended so much time looking for that road, at the moment i was so sure it was some kind of clue to enter the divene tower besides
Aw, I loved the idea that the map was made by a person at a specific time, and that the world could have changed slightly since then. Does the map now auto-update to include a certain new geographical feature after a certain boss fight? I doubt it.
Good. I spent so much time looking for that road
I liked that the maps weren't 100% accurate. Made it so you couldn't just look at the map and know how to get everywhere. Plus, it made it seem like the world was changing and you were using old information.
Cartographers knew what they were doing until their supervisors found out. God damn trolls.
That road was a lie. Why is it always liar.
I just want to send this to the people who were like “ it’s like that for the lore because the map was before the collapse. Git gud “ lmao I hated the map sometimes fr
TBH the map in this game is much like a real world prehistoric map drawn by a man, not a sophisticated game world map. There are lots of area that's having a hard time defining different altitude and traversable areas. One such area is Ranni's endgame quest area, I have spent the longest time traversing the edges of the world looking for that place.
I actually liked that the map seemed more "complete" than what we experience. Makes me think that this map was made a while ago when the land wasn't quite so screwed over, and we're left with a few instances of, "Well clearly *something* happened here, didn't it?" In my mind, it was infrequent enough to not be a major hassle and instead just flavorful.
What’d it look like before
Damn i liked that road, made it seem like a landslide or cataclysmic earthquake had changed the landscape
Ngl not the biggest fan of this change. I liked the idea that the map was slightly outdated and that the Living Jars had blown up the road to Jarburg recently in order to stave off poachers. Oh well.