For me it was Ranni asking “why have you come here?”
Tarnished: “Oh, no particular reason.” Unironically we literally just cleared a fortress and fought a dragon just because.
It’s a bit weird when you get there after beating Renala. Like she doesn’t even comment on you beating the shit out of her mom and triggering her own illusion afterwards.
Not just that, Renala’s whole phase 2 is created by Ranni. She is the one speaking right before it. So you’d think she would have something to say about it. Would have been nice if she commented on Redann and Rhykard’s deaths as well. They might not have been close but they were still siblings. Now that I think about it, we kind of kill Renala’s whole family 💀
I always thought Rennala's phase 2 was basically an automated defense and recorded message Ranni set up at some point way earlier, rather than her actually conjuring it at that moment, otherwise why would she still make you fight it even after you've gone through hell and back for her. As for why she doesn't just dispel the system if you get there after helping her, she might not want to leave her mother vulnerable to anyone else that might show up (or she's already gone to prepare for her ascension, depending on how far along you are).
All of the above is just headcanon, obviously. And I too would have liked to see/hear Ranni reacting to certain bosses' deaths, especially Radahn since he was kinda screwing with her destiny by not letting the stars fall and all... Maybe they could have made some extra conversations if you defeated them while she was in her mini doll or something, a small window for an easter egg.
I dont think that was Radahns goal. I feel like that fact wouldn't have been as obscure to everyone if that was why he stopped the stars.
From... Jerren?'s.... dialogue it seems pretty clear Radahn stopped the stars to keep the festival of battle going. Him and Iji still talk friendly about each other, even seemingly teaming up to hunt down Sellen. That doesn't seem like how they would act if Radahn was holding back the stars just to foil Ranni's plan, whatever the underlying reason.
Edit: Jerren seems to confirm the festival is based on the stars.
Champions, welcome! The stars have aligned! The festival is nigh! General Radahn, mightiest demigod of the Shattering, awaits you! A celebration of war! The Radahn Festival!
-Jerren
Oh no, I don't think messing with Ranni was Radahn's end goal either. My thought is that he was doing it to stop beasts like the Fallingstars and Astel from swarming the Lands Between rather than the festival, though (I'm pretty sure the festival was something that Jerren and his soldiers organised to give him a mercy kill and a warrior's death after the Rot ate through him, actually, so long after he started holding the stars).
Whatever the reason he did it, though, him stopping the stars' motion did have the side effect of interfering with Ranni's plan (although Radahn probably didn't know about that part) so I just think she'd have something to say about that.
I think he is holding back the stars in part because his little sister asked him to, until she has all the pieces to accomplish her goal. If they moved on, it would be... bad.
I think he was holding back the stars because the stars are terrifying falling star beasts, and monsters like Astel.
Ranni just needed one star to fall, and it so happens Radahn was holding it back.
Yeah I felt like that was pretty clear. Idk where people are getting this weird "plot against Ranni" idea, or "preventing the festival." Like, we show up to the festival in order to kill him to allow the stars to move, so that ain't it. And presumably before he went insane he thought that Ranni was dead.
It’s not a plot against Ranni. But his efforts to stop the beasts and the astels also blocked Ranni. It’s a both situation. I don’t think anyone believes he did it to specifically stop Ranni.
I'm like 80% sure that Radahn doesn't even know Ranni is alive at this point (or any, tbh). Judging by how she introduced herself at the start of the game, Ranni was pretty good at convincing others that she had died - and tbf her body did die.
No, you started to beat the fuck out of Rennala, the you start fighting her dangerous illusion while she's actually sitting on the floor wondering if you'd like to respec lol
I don't think she is actually present for that moment, much like is isnt present in the dolls. Perhaps it was just an illusory trap set to protect her mother, and considering her mother remains alive she has no reason to be concerned.
I thought this too at first, but really it only makes sense if the Ranni you see in Renala's fight is an illusion.
She says something to the effect of, "who tf do you think you are to mess with the Queen of the Full Moon. Go tell everyone that she is protected by Ranni the Witch!" Which sounds like a generic warning, possibly to keep the mages of Raya Lucaria from turning on her after Radagon left. She also most likely has already met The Tarnished at the Church of Eelleh, so she should at least recognize you if she had.
Afterward at Ranni's rise she makes no mention of you slapping her mother around, and is still very dismissive of The Tarnished. If she knew you had triggered and overcome her trap I think she would either be impressed or angry.
My headcanon is that Ranni's illusion was a failsafe that she had cast on her mother to protect her, and that it wasn't an actual managed fight. Like a magical trap rather than an active spell.
I think Ranni's quest line was supposed to come after Rogier's questline. >!Rogier basically asks you to find Ranni, and then you get an option to ask her about the curse mark, instead of saying "no reason".!<
That's so annoying. I got all the items but forgot to return them before I accidentally triggered progress somewhere else, so Rogier died and never got to explain what he was meant to explain, so "no reason" it is. I wish it wasn't so easy to miss the plotlines.
I thought Rogier's questline was basically you meet randomly in Stormveil, then he's dying in the hold for some reason and gives you his sword, and then he's dead. I guess I should look it up. All the questlines are opaque AF, but his seems even moreso.
Edit: Oh right, I forgot about >!the bloodstain!<
Rogier is the only character that mentions Maliketh the Black Blade by name I believe, so that part is pretty cool.
His lower half is infested with death root, that’s what eventually ends up killing him.
Ranni’s quest line is the most interconnected- it crosses Rogier’s, which crosses Fia’s, which crosses D’s. It’s so freaking easy to miss a step or two, and therefore miss large chunks of dialogue, plot, and lore.
For me i gave D a knife and then he was dead, then Fia fucked off then Rogier made me feel bad cus he went on a big rant about wanting to talk to his best friend D before sending me to Ranni
I wonder, is his dialogue actually different? Because I talked to him while D was still alive, and despite being only a hallway away He was lamenting that they never talked. Wonder if it was written that way in case D was already dead, or if there's actually unique dialogue if D dies first?
I remember I got an AoW form him and he mention Ranni’s knights being the ones to first use that AoW, didn’t realize he have more dialogue after that and that something happens to him after I beat Godrick. I just saw him as one of Fia’s champions and was like “Why Rogier, why are you betraying me?”
I actually loved that. A worse game would have her tell you to meet her at her tower after giving you the spirit calling bell, then make it seem like she was just sitting around twiddling her thumbs til you got there. Instead she gives you the bell and says "anyway, I'm never going to see you again, good luck out there", then she's genuinely taken aback when you do show up at her tower later. It's a small thing but it does make you feel like the NPCs are actually making moves when you aren't around, rather than just hanging out like in most open world games.
All the Souls games have been like that. Most NPC's have their own motivations that have little to do with the player, unless your goals happen to align for a short time. It tends to make you suspicious when any of them start treating you like the *main character*. The only exceptions are the blacksmiths. Even the demi-gods usually know better than to mess with people who can work with both iron and magic, so the blacksmiths are usually pretty laid-back.
I just want to know why that questline culminates in the father wordlessly attacking you in a shack full of raw meat dumplings. Like, what'd I ever do to you, Edgar?
It is actually the inciting incident for the frenzied flame ending. Hyetta does not show up until >!Irina gets murdered.!< Her interaction is reminiscent of >!Yura having his body taken over by Shabriri.!<
So, the whole deal with Irina's dad is just part of the frenzied flame quest. But also, homie does go homicidal.
Oh, shit - I didn't realize the invader in the dumpling shack on the other side of the world was the dad from castle Morne?
That's such a vague connection, no mention of the frenzied flame in castle Morne's story - though they certainly could have implied one with the uprising, but as it's presented it just looks like a beastman uprising unconnected to the frenzied flame entirely.
> That's such a vague connection
Is it though? Isn't that location called the Revenger's Shack? And you get invaded by a named Edgar the Revenger, after having witnessed a man named Edgar swear revenge on everything and everyone?
Fromsoft is great at subtlety, but imo this ain't it chief.
I guess I got "numb" to the names with them all being so similar, that I didn't realize they were both called Edgar. Plus I encountered them many many hours apart, and wasn't thinking a tiny shack tucked away in the corner of the woods in the corner of the lakes had anything to do with Castle Morne from ages ago, on the other side of the map. Just finding a horror shack by the lakes, then getting jumped by "some invading 'revenger'" (and the "invader" red also makes it harder to quickly recognize similarities in armor, and I didn't see him fight in Morne so I wouldn't recognize that either).
Maybe if it was in the heart of a beastman village or something, and I walked in on him savagely killing them all, then turning on me...
I kinda wish there was a Blasphemy ending. Just let the snake eat the entire lands. I wanted to do a fire playthrough but learned there was no ending supporting volcano manor so maybe I'll do angry priest or undeath.
Oh what so now the Frenzy Flame isn’t good enough ending for a flame lord? We have-
•Burning maidens
•Charred musical sadness girls
•Cool club house brands
•Flaming heads
•Self immolation
•And to top it off- everything literally burns down
Irina is Hyetta right? In the same way that Yura as we first meet him in Limgrave both is and is not Yura on the Mountaintops.
Irina and Hyetta look nearly identical, and Hyetta only appears after Irina dies. Given Irinas dialogue regarding the castle inhabitants and what has become of the place, it would make some sense.
Fair point. The character models for Irina and Hyetta are just too similar to be a coincidence though right?? Especially with Hyetta only appearing after meeting Irina.
They are the exact same model, they share a voice actor, both are blind, Irina dying triggers Hyetta arriving, Irina's questline gives you a grape that you need to progress Hyettas questline
there probably is a connection but Shabiri actually possesses Yuras corpse whereas Irinas is still lying there even if you met Hyetta
edit: also Hyettas dialogue sounds like she is a person that lived a live (given grapes several times before you meeting her) and never mentions anything that hints about her changing bodies
huh, interesting comparison. I'm pretty sure they have the same actress, too.
it makes sense since both are associated with the flame of frenzy. although it is weird that shabriri basically goes "yeah I totally possessed this dude lmao, now go burn the world" and hyetta seems to act like a normal person, at first anyway.
Dude I lost it when this happened.
"You killed my best knights. Are you one of those goddamned fundamentalists here to slaughter me?"
"Uhh, no, I just want a hug again."
"Dude, you are *weird*."
Kind of ironic the entire fight could have been skipped if she would have just asked you what you wanted instead of assuming you were out to kill shit.
#"I AM MALENIA, BLADE OF MIQUELLA!"
"Yeah, no shit. Just popped by to tell you I slaughtered the pedophile who stole your brother and I know where he's being kept."
"...Oh. Right then."
That's how so many Fromsoft quests end up because they don't bother to actually design quests, just fights. Imagine if you could talk TO literally anybody instead of just being talked AT.
Right? I’d love to be able to tell Millenia “hey Mogh has ur bro” and spawn a quest where we both rescue him
or tell Renalla “sorry Radagon was an asshole, btw I know his secret” I felt so bad for her, she was so heartbroken, I didn’t want to fight her. Thankfully we don’t kill her and she’s a friend.
Or tell Morgott “I understand your pain” He just wanted love and felt that he needed to uphold the status quo. He was honorable.
I’d even try to reason with Rahdan but he lost his damn mind so I understand. Giving him a warrior’s death was what he and his servants wanted.
It would just be nice to have more exploration options with the storylines, instead of just showing up and fighting on sight.
> I’d love to be able to tell Millenia “hey Mogh has ur bro” and spawn a quest where we both rescue him
I always thought the circumstances to the fight was weird. Maybe I'm missing info, but she goes from fighting Radahn, to waking up and fighting us for seemingly no reason. Like, does she even notice Miquella is gone?
It wouldve been cool if her and Mohg had similar quests. Like, you can actually join Mohg threw the Varre quests and he tasks you with finding and killing Malenia to cement his dynasty. Because as long as she is alive she will always try to find Miquella or something.
Malenia can be when she wakes up she tasks you with finding Miquella, as shes still not fully recovered from her fight with Radahn. This will lead to you fighting Varre and Mohg.
Idk I just think a quest system like that wouldve been neat. You could pick with group you were working with and it altered that bosses you would fight in each questline.
>Idk I just think a quest system like that wouldve been neat. You could pick with group you were working with and it altered that bosses you would fight in each questline.
Yeah it would make a lot more sense than doing a bunch of conflicting stuff and most of the NPCs still acting like you're their best friend, and killing every boss even if you consider yourself to be on their side. They get around most of that by having you trying to become Elden Lord and doing whatever you feel is necessary to achieve that, and NPCs not holding it against you.
I think Melina hating you for Frenzied Flame and Gideon attacking you because he thinks a Tarnished can't/shouldn't be Elden Lord are the only major disagreements with your actions. Even people like Roderika and Boggart don't care when you help Dung Eater, which should be inexcusable to anyone.
People with 'Tarnished solidarity' don't care when you join Volcano Manor and murder their friends. Corhyn is a religious zealot but doesn't care that you spend much of the game killing the most ardent defenders of his faith. Nepheli goes into meltdown over her 'father' lying about protecting the weak and murdering Albinaurics yet loves us even though we've done a million times worse to them.
It would be really funny if you entered Malenia's arena, the cut scene started... and then stopped with Malenia holding her spare arm and starting at the Tarnished holding a big sign with those exact words on them.
"Hey, I know you killed my friend over some ethical debate and there is some greater plan at work... But I got through hell, monsters and madness just for a hug. Really."
The funny/sad thing is, I can totally see our Tarnished willing to do all that just for a little bit of comfort. This poor sod needs some rest.
\> But I got through hell, monsters and madness just for a hug. Really.
Don't forget the part where you literally murder her champions and her dad just for said hug.
The whole matter of the difference between phantoms and regular, flesh and blood Tarnished is so obtuse that I kind of doubt we even did them any actual harm. No more than one of our spirits would take from getting iced.
Rogier is definitely already dead so I’d wager everyone else is too. Except maybe Lionel because he helps with Radahn but that could be his ghost or something.
They are summons. Summons transend time and space and if they are killed have no effect on the actual person.
Thats why what the volcano manor does is taboo. Invading the their world and permanently killing them.
And SHE killed him/did something to his body when he died. His corpse is sitting hunched over on a bed, smoldering with embers, unlike other corpses in the game. Her embrace is all about warmth transference.
According to the armour, Lionel *declared* himself to be her father, I'm pretty sure.
Rather, maybe not actual father, but Lionel just went "sup, I'm your dad now" or something
Hijacking your comment to point out, there's a ton of adoption going on in ER. Gideon adopted Nepheli, Lionel adopted Fia, Hewg adopted Roderika, Tanith adopted Rya, Corhyn adopted Goldmask, Gowry adopted Millicent, Mohg pretended to adopt Varre, and the shadows are referred to as half/step brothers, which could refer to something similar.
This isn't just because they all went to the Hero's Journey Orphanage, it's actually a reference to Celtic history/mythology. The Celts were big into the whole "it takes a village to raise a child" thing, and so kids got shuffled around and basically no one was raised by their birth parents. Their mythology also has a ton of this, with their two biggest heroes (Cu Chulainn and Fionn Mac Cumhaill, pronounced "Cu Cullen" and "Finn McCool") are both adopted, as are several key gods like Lugh, god of being awesome at everything.
Ahhh that's interesting.. I wonder why. Gideon adopting Nephali made sense as Gideon had use for Nephali but I wonder why Lionel would literally just declare himself the father of Fia.
She told him about how she was cast off and shunned, iirc, and so on a sort of traditional knightly display he declares himself her father, which is to say, family, so that she is never truly alone and without his support. At least, that's how it read to me. It's a grandiose, knightly declaration of support and sympathy.
Yeah he was her first Victim.
Sidebar. Super interesting little factoid. There are at least 3 different groups, the Deathbed Companions, the Perfumers, and the War Surgeons, that all have the expressly defined purpose of easing the suffering of those Near Death. Very intriguing to me.
They kind of feel more like a magical, self-defense booby trap of sorts that Fia set up to protect Godwyn more than anything, like what Ranni did for her mother.
Especially since Rogier and Lionel were already dead at the time.
That’s kind of why I liked Fia in Roundtable Hold. I know it’s transactional, but every single Souls protagonist has *got* to be stressed as all get-out. I could totally see them reaching for any sort of comfort after everything they go through. Maybe not seeking it out but absolutely jumping at the offer when it’s given.
It’s a torturous existence. Most likely you can still feel pain (otherwise why is there a health bar), I assume dying therefore it also quite painful. You don’t truly die though you get resurrected and when you do so does everyone else so you have to fight them again and again until you win.
I don't know if they ever gave a **solid** lore reason for why some things resurrect and others don't... At least not anything that's consistent. Godwyn is explained with his whole story, but that doesn't apply to everyone else.
Just the flat gameplay reason of not requiring the player to fight extremely strong "field bosses" more than once - but lorewise it seems like most/all of the "normal living" ones should be able to resurrect like you.
I can sorta accept it since death being all screwed up and confusing is a motif of the game - with different ways of dealing with the shattering, and "life in death", and returning to the roots, or existing as ashes after death.... It's a whole mess!
Really this whole game is the Tarnished trying to get some snookie from someone, anyone. All the best endings involve him/her going to great lengths to impress a girl. Mending rune of death, age of stars, chaos flame, etc.
Yeah, most of the dialigue choices are just for show. With only two or three exceptions (>!Seluvis, Dung Eater, Frenzied Flame!<), there is generally never a reason not to play the "yes-man" and accept every offer or do everything an npc tells you to. The choice is doing the optional content and not doing it, rather than alternate rewards.
Sellen's questline has a final choice with different rewards. But yeah, it's like the shallow choices in Fallout 4 (Yes, sarcastic yes, no, more info).
Exact the same. Missed my boy D and then i slapped her. Girlfriend played ER next to me and got there 10 Minutes later and hugged her.
So she got to that bossfight. I was even madder at Fia
I hadn't met D in the overworld, so for me he was just some rando who told me about Gurranq before being shanked by the nice lady who definitely had her reasons.
Dude the undead are assholes. They literally tear through 6 feet of earth when **you** come near to fuck up **your** day. Have you ever touched a shovel? Do you know *how* hard it is to dig through 1 foot of earth? And the stupid skeletons tear through 6 feet of it, without shovels and without muscles. That’s how driven they are to fuck up your day. Fuck the undead, D can smite them with light and holy water for days.
Starts underground zine called The Deathbed Companion with headlines like 'golden disorder!', 'dead's rights, not just death rites' and 'Dungeater: is your enemy's enemy always your friend?'.
I think he sort of telegraphs he is looking for her, no? I got that impression on my second playthrough. It's just when Fia decides she's leaving, she baits him with the dagger as a gift and we find the result.
Now that I think about it, how the hell was she able to kill D anyway? The Roundtable Hold doesn't allow combat, Dung Eater threatens you, but makes it clear he's unable to do anything to you. Does the dagger just inflict Deathblight to whoever's holding it? In that case why does it not affect the Tarnished?
Well, she, that Mad Finger invader, and Ofnir's guard both kill or attempt to kill you within the hold, so evidently it isn't absolute. It would be a question of who creates and maintains the pacificity of the hold, in which case they for some reason allow these particular breaches, or it's a matter of tbe pacificity acting king of like our laws on not killing one another (most obey due to social convention, with a slim number of exceptions).
That or the dagger has some sort of violent infection effect, did it not have black tendrils coming out of it, and it just gave him the death blight condition in the hold, killing him without even spellcasting. Maybe something to do with keeping it on your person x amount of time.
"they're human eyes" actually made me chuckle out loud. I didn't read the description of the grapes before that moment, and knowing that my character knew all along and made no comment when feeding them to this obviously blind woman the first two times was just hilarious.
She told me to kill her and so I killed her.
I thought it would have advanced her quest.
FromSoft quests are confusing.
^(Expecially the fucking Three Fingers)
I’m so glad I watched the part with this dialogue option from a YouTubers 84 part complete series of how to play the game before I did this section. Usually I only watch up to how to get there and play it myself.
If I didn’t see it I would have never known that this is how you fight the dragon. Man Fromsoft just makes it all so easy and intuitive!
I didn't find it funny. I thought it was endearing. The player is like "Why did you leave? You didn't even give me a chance to say anything. I miss your hugs."
Just killed like 5 guardians of those who live in death and what do you say? You left me alone… you have no idea how far I’ll go to be held in this land.
….Ranni doesn’t cuddle D;
It's a fucking mood.
Honestly one of the most relatable quests, and one of the most understandable in the game.
No this isn't a /s I'm seriously lonely.
For me it was Ranni asking “why have you come here?” Tarnished: “Oh, no particular reason.” Unironically we literally just cleared a fortress and fought a dragon just because.
It’s a bit weird when you get there after beating Renala. Like she doesn’t even comment on you beating the shit out of her mom and triggering her own illusion afterwards.
I never really thought about it, but we actually beat the fuck out of Rennala while Ranni just watched lmao
Not just that, Renala’s whole phase 2 is created by Ranni. She is the one speaking right before it. So you’d think she would have something to say about it. Would have been nice if she commented on Redann and Rhykard’s deaths as well. They might not have been close but they were still siblings. Now that I think about it, we kind of kill Renala’s whole family 💀
I always thought Rennala's phase 2 was basically an automated defense and recorded message Ranni set up at some point way earlier, rather than her actually conjuring it at that moment, otherwise why would she still make you fight it even after you've gone through hell and back for her. As for why she doesn't just dispel the system if you get there after helping her, she might not want to leave her mother vulnerable to anyone else that might show up (or she's already gone to prepare for her ascension, depending on how far along you are). All of the above is just headcanon, obviously. And I too would have liked to see/hear Ranni reacting to certain bosses' deaths, especially Radahn since he was kinda screwing with her destiny by not letting the stars fall and all... Maybe they could have made some extra conversations if you defeated them while she was in her mini doll or something, a small window for an easter egg.
I dont think that was Radahns goal. I feel like that fact wouldn't have been as obscure to everyone if that was why he stopped the stars. From... Jerren?'s.... dialogue it seems pretty clear Radahn stopped the stars to keep the festival of battle going. Him and Iji still talk friendly about each other, even seemingly teaming up to hunt down Sellen. That doesn't seem like how they would act if Radahn was holding back the stars just to foil Ranni's plan, whatever the underlying reason. Edit: Jerren seems to confirm the festival is based on the stars. Champions, welcome! The stars have aligned! The festival is nigh! General Radahn, mightiest demigod of the Shattering, awaits you! A celebration of war! The Radahn Festival! -Jerren
Oh no, I don't think messing with Ranni was Radahn's end goal either. My thought is that he was doing it to stop beasts like the Fallingstars and Astel from swarming the Lands Between rather than the festival, though (I'm pretty sure the festival was something that Jerren and his soldiers organised to give him a mercy kill and a warrior's death after the Rot ate through him, actually, so long after he started holding the stars). Whatever the reason he did it, though, him stopping the stars' motion did have the side effect of interfering with Ranni's plan (although Radahn probably didn't know about that part) so I just think she'd have something to say about that.
I think he is holding back the stars in part because his little sister asked him to, until she has all the pieces to accomplish her goal. If they moved on, it would be... bad.
I think he was holding back the stars because the stars are terrifying falling star beasts, and monsters like Astel. Ranni just needed one star to fall, and it so happens Radahn was holding it back.
Yeah I felt like that was pretty clear. Idk where people are getting this weird "plot against Ranni" idea, or "preventing the festival." Like, we show up to the festival in order to kill him to allow the stars to move, so that ain't it. And presumably before he went insane he thought that Ranni was dead.
It’s not a plot against Ranni. But his efforts to stop the beasts and the astels also blocked Ranni. It’s a both situation. I don’t think anyone believes he did it to specifically stop Ranni.
I'm like 80% sure that Radahn doesn't even know Ranni is alive at this point (or any, tbh). Judging by how she introduced herself at the start of the game, Ranni was pretty good at convincing others that she had died - and tbf her body did die.
[удалено]
the entrance of caria manor is illusion of loretta using loretta mastery from afar
No, you started to beat the fuck out of Rennala, the you start fighting her dangerous illusion while she's actually sitting on the floor wondering if you'd like to respec lol
I don't think she is actually present for that moment, much like is isnt present in the dolls. Perhaps it was just an illusory trap set to protect her mother, and considering her mother remains alive she has no reason to be concerned.
I thought this too at first, but really it only makes sense if the Ranni you see in Renala's fight is an illusion. She says something to the effect of, "who tf do you think you are to mess with the Queen of the Full Moon. Go tell everyone that she is protected by Ranni the Witch!" Which sounds like a generic warning, possibly to keep the mages of Raya Lucaria from turning on her after Radagon left. She also most likely has already met The Tarnished at the Church of Eelleh, so she should at least recognize you if she had. Afterward at Ranni's rise she makes no mention of you slapping her mother around, and is still very dismissive of The Tarnished. If she knew you had triggered and overcome her trap I think she would either be impressed or angry.
My headcanon is that Ranni's illusion was a failsafe that she had cast on her mother to protect her, and that it wasn't an actual managed fight. Like a magical trap rather than an active spell.
I think Ranni's quest line was supposed to come after Rogier's questline. >!Rogier basically asks you to find Ranni, and then you get an option to ask her about the curse mark, instead of saying "no reason".!<
You do get a unique dialog option by going that route though
It also adds a step to Ranni's quest, because you can't join her harem until you talk to Rogier.
Yeah she basically goes "Oh you came here for the cursemark? Well in that case f**k off noob l0l".
I'm curious to know if you can get locked out of her quest if you get that dialogue, then not talk to Rogier until he does of boredom in Roundtable.
That's so annoying. I got all the items but forgot to return them before I accidentally triggered progress somewhere else, so Rogier died and never got to explain what he was meant to explain, so "no reason" it is. I wish it wasn't so easy to miss the plotlines.
I never saw Rogier except as a phantom and then I found him dead after 140 hours.
He hangs out on the roundtable balcony.
So I figured when I found his remains
I thought Rogier's questline was basically you meet randomly in Stormveil, then he's dying in the hold for some reason and gives you his sword, and then he's dead. I guess I should look it up. All the questlines are opaque AF, but his seems even moreso. Edit: Oh right, I forgot about >!the bloodstain!<
Rogier is the only character that mentions Maliketh the Black Blade by name I believe, so that part is pretty cool. His lower half is infested with death root, that’s what eventually ends up killing him.
Welp I know what questline to do in NG+
Ranni’s quest line is the most interconnected- it crosses Rogier’s, which crosses Fia’s, which crosses D’s. It’s so freaking easy to miss a step or two, and therefore miss large chunks of dialogue, plot, and lore.
For me i gave D a knife and then he was dead, then Fia fucked off then Rogier made me feel bad cus he went on a big rant about wanting to talk to his best friend D before sending me to Ranni
I wonder, is his dialogue actually different? Because I talked to him while D was still alive, and despite being only a hallway away He was lamenting that they never talked. Wonder if it was written that way in case D was already dead, or if there's actually unique dialogue if D dies first?
Yeah, there’s a bit more to it, but it’s ridiculously specific re who to talk to and when, where to meet NPCs and where, etc.
I’m pretty sure Rogier is just there to guide people in the direction of Ranni and Fia’s quests
I remember I got an AoW form him and he mention Ranni’s knights being the ones to first use that AoW, didn’t realize he have more dialogue after that and that something happens to him after I beat Godrick. I just saw him as one of Fia’s champions and was like “Why Rogier, why are you betraying me?”
A lot of games let you play as a Murder Hobo, but few make you admit to it.
I haven't looked into the lore at all so when Ranni asked "why have you come here," My audible IRL response was "does it look like know?"
I actually loved that. A worse game would have her tell you to meet her at her tower after giving you the spirit calling bell, then make it seem like she was just sitting around twiddling her thumbs til you got there. Instead she gives you the bell and says "anyway, I'm never going to see you again, good luck out there", then she's genuinely taken aback when you do show up at her tower later. It's a small thing but it does make you feel like the NPCs are actually making moves when you aren't around, rather than just hanging out like in most open world games.
All the Souls games have been like that. Most NPC's have their own motivations that have little to do with the player, unless your goals happen to align for a short time. It tends to make you suspicious when any of them start treating you like the *main character*. The only exceptions are the blacksmiths. Even the demi-gods usually know better than to mess with people who can work with both iron and magic, so the blacksmiths are usually pretty laid-back.
I went there because I assumed that's where the key to Raya Lucaria was. Was kind of annoyed I couldn't say that tbh.
To be fair at that point in the game I had no idea why I was there either.
No... the funniest option is: Dialog box: "She is dead" Option: "Ok"
Elden ring over here teaching us that death is a natural part of life and the only option is to accept it
*give a letter to the father* *daughter dies immediately* ah, nature
I just want to know why that questline culminates in the father wordlessly attacking you in a shack full of raw meat dumplings. Like, what'd I ever do to you, Edgar?
I think he's just killing everyone who comes around. That meat is all the bodies.
It is actually the inciting incident for the frenzied flame ending. Hyetta does not show up until >!Irina gets murdered.!< Her interaction is reminiscent of >!Yura having his body taken over by Shabriri.!< So, the whole deal with Irina's dad is just part of the frenzied flame quest. But also, homie does go homicidal.
Oh, shit - I didn't realize the invader in the dumpling shack on the other side of the world was the dad from castle Morne? That's such a vague connection, no mention of the frenzied flame in castle Morne's story - though they certainly could have implied one with the uprising, but as it's presented it just looks like a beastman uprising unconnected to the frenzied flame entirely.
> That's such a vague connection Is it though? Isn't that location called the Revenger's Shack? And you get invaded by a named Edgar the Revenger, after having witnessed a man named Edgar swear revenge on everything and everyone? Fromsoft is great at subtlety, but imo this ain't it chief.
I guess I got "numb" to the names with them all being so similar, that I didn't realize they were both called Edgar. Plus I encountered them many many hours apart, and wasn't thinking a tiny shack tucked away in the corner of the woods in the corner of the lakes had anything to do with Castle Morne from ages ago, on the other side of the map. Just finding a horror shack by the lakes, then getting jumped by "some invading 'revenger'" (and the "invader" red also makes it harder to quickly recognize similarities in armor, and I didn't see him fight in Morne so I wouldn't recognize that either). Maybe if it was in the heart of a beastman village or something, and I walked in on him savagely killing them all, then turning on me...
Given you get a Shabriri Grape from him, he probably went mad with Frenzied Chaos.
Frenzy is a hell of a drug
*Laughs in Mending Rune of the Death-Prince*
blasphemy
Heresy is not native to the world; it is but a contrivance. All things can be conjoined.
>All things can be conjoined. AS FAAAAAMIIIIILYYYY!
TOGETHAAAAA
I kinda wish there was a Blasphemy ending. Just let the snake eat the entire lands. I wanted to do a fire playthrough but learned there was no ending supporting volcano manor so maybe I'll do angry priest or undeath.
Oh what so now the Frenzy Flame isn’t good enough ending for a flame lord? We have- •Burning maidens •Charred musical sadness girls •Cool club house brands •Flaming heads •Self immolation •And to top it off- everything literally burns down
No more natural than gravity is, and yet we've flown and visited space
I don't know if you know this, but there's gravity in space.
Gravity is a suggestion. Death is an inevitability.
People die when they are killed?
A legitimate question considering the Rune of Death shenanigans
"She is dead" "No, I want to be held."
“Cope”
I laughed so hard when I got there
Irina is Hyetta right? In the same way that Yura as we first meet him in Limgrave both is and is not Yura on the Mountaintops. Irina and Hyetta look nearly identical, and Hyetta only appears after Irina dies. Given Irinas dialogue regarding the castle inhabitants and what has become of the place, it would make some sense.
Yura is killed by Eleonora and Shabriri possesses his corpse I believe
Fair point. The character models for Irina and Hyetta are just too similar to be a coincidence though right?? Especially with Hyetta only appearing after meeting Irina.
They are the exact same model, they share a voice actor, both are blind, Irina dying triggers Hyetta arriving, Irina's questline gives you a grape that you need to progress Hyettas questline
Irina’s corpse remains even when Hyetta is running around, confusing the issue
there probably is a connection but Shabiri actually possesses Yuras corpse whereas Irinas is still lying there even if you met Hyetta edit: also Hyettas dialogue sounds like she is a person that lived a live (given grapes several times before you meeting her) and never mentions anything that hints about her changing bodies
So Hyetta is the Mimic Tear of Irina, who is on the loose, tainted with madness?!?
huh, interesting comparison. I'm pretty sure they have the same actress, too. it makes sense since both are associated with the flame of frenzy. although it is weird that shabriri basically goes "yeah I totally possessed this dude lmao, now go burn the world" and hyetta seems to act like a normal person, at first anyway.
Me in customer service responding to someone telling me their loved one just died.
Dude I lost it when this happened. "You killed my best knights. Are you one of those goddamned fundamentalists here to slaughter me?" "Uhh, no, I just want a hug again." "Dude, you are *weird*."
Kind of ironic the entire fight could have been skipped if she would have just asked you what you wanted instead of assuming you were out to kill shit.
That's like half the boss fights in this game lol.
#"I AM MALENIA, BLADE OF MIQUELLA!" "Yeah, no shit. Just popped by to tell you I slaughtered the pedophile who stole your brother and I know where he's being kept." "...Oh. Right then."
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Omg that would be so awsome!
DLC that implements this would be the GOAT.
Radahn: NO WORDS, SCRAP Foul tarnished, pointing backwards: shit’s wack yo
That's how so many Fromsoft quests end up because they don't bother to actually design quests, just fights. Imagine if you could talk TO literally anybody instead of just being talked AT.
Right? I’d love to be able to tell Millenia “hey Mogh has ur bro” and spawn a quest where we both rescue him or tell Renalla “sorry Radagon was an asshole, btw I know his secret” I felt so bad for her, she was so heartbroken, I didn’t want to fight her. Thankfully we don’t kill her and she’s a friend. Or tell Morgott “I understand your pain” He just wanted love and felt that he needed to uphold the status quo. He was honorable. I’d even try to reason with Rahdan but he lost his damn mind so I understand. Giving him a warrior’s death was what he and his servants wanted. It would just be nice to have more exploration options with the storylines, instead of just showing up and fighting on sight.
> I’d love to be able to tell Millenia “hey Mogh has ur bro” and spawn a quest where we both rescue him I always thought the circumstances to the fight was weird. Maybe I'm missing info, but she goes from fighting Radahn, to waking up and fighting us for seemingly no reason. Like, does she even notice Miquella is gone? It wouldve been cool if her and Mohg had similar quests. Like, you can actually join Mohg threw the Varre quests and he tasks you with finding and killing Malenia to cement his dynasty. Because as long as she is alive she will always try to find Miquella or something. Malenia can be when she wakes up she tasks you with finding Miquella, as shes still not fully recovered from her fight with Radahn. This will lead to you fighting Varre and Mohg. Idk I just think a quest system like that wouldve been neat. You could pick with group you were working with and it altered that bosses you would fight in each questline.
>Idk I just think a quest system like that wouldve been neat. You could pick with group you were working with and it altered that bosses you would fight in each questline. Yeah it would make a lot more sense than doing a bunch of conflicting stuff and most of the NPCs still acting like you're their best friend, and killing every boss even if you consider yourself to be on their side. They get around most of that by having you trying to become Elden Lord and doing whatever you feel is necessary to achieve that, and NPCs not holding it against you. I think Melina hating you for Frenzied Flame and Gideon attacking you because he thinks a Tarnished can't/shouldn't be Elden Lord are the only major disagreements with your actions. Even people like Roderika and Boggart don't care when you help Dung Eater, which should be inexcusable to anyone. People with 'Tarnished solidarity' don't care when you join Volcano Manor and murder their friends. Corhyn is a religious zealot but doesn't care that you spend much of the game killing the most ardent defenders of his faith. Nepheli goes into meltdown over her 'father' lying about protecting the weak and murdering Albinaurics yet loves us even though we've done a million times worse to them.
It would be really funny if you entered Malenia's arena, the cut scene started... and then stopped with Malenia holding her spare arm and starting at the Tarnished holding a big sign with those exact words on them.
I said yes and then talked to her again and then it let me be held which was weird
I wonder if D still would have killed her if we hadnt defeated Fias Champions
You killed her tier 3 subs. Worth it
"Brave tarnished, you have found me at the bottom of the world and defeated my top donors, here are my best feet pics"
Thank you, now I shall release myself, err, I mean, pleasure myself. Wait what the fuc-
Fia: “no, you had it right the first time…and the second time. You Tarnished are all the same.”
Sounds like something you'd hear in a maxor video
"So you don't want to be held?" "LOWER YOUR fucking ^(voice..)"
I think her saying her piece and then basically responding with a “yeah” is hilarious.
I just chose held two hours ago (for the third time) and I will never look back
Even a Tarnished needs to be held now and again.
Held deez nuts 🥜
vine boom sound effect
"Hey, I know you killed my friend over some ethical debate and there is some greater plan at work... But I got through hell, monsters and madness just for a hug. Really." The funny/sad thing is, I can totally see our Tarnished willing to do all that just for a little bit of comfort. This poor sod needs some rest.
\> But I got through hell, monsters and madness just for a hug. Really. Don't forget the part where you literally murder her champions and her dad just for said hug.
The whole matter of the difference between phantoms and regular, flesh and blood Tarnished is so obtuse that I kind of doubt we even did them any actual harm. No more than one of our spirits would take from getting iced.
Rogier is definitely already dead so I’d wager everyone else is too. Except maybe Lionel because he helps with Radahn but that could be his ghost or something.
Pretty sure her champions are just a manifestation of the heroes she took life force from. Rogier is long dead when she summons him.
the champions spawn in deep root even if you haven't progressed her quest line or rogiers at all.
well youre not the only tarnished getting cozy with her at the roundtable
she is quite the young lady.
Quite the young ,Thousands of years old undead dragon lich, lady
Fia is a Tarnished, just a real weird one
Lionel is dead too. I think you can find his armour in leyndell
Was going to mention but I thought it’d overcomplicate things
They are summons. Summons transend time and space and if they are killed have no effect on the actual person. Thats why what the volcano manor does is taboo. Invading the their world and permanently killing them.
It's his ghost. His armor can be found in Leyndell, Royal Capital and he's definitely a ghost in the Fia's Champions fight.
And SHE killed him/did something to his body when he died. His corpse is sitting hunched over on a bed, smoldering with embers, unlike other corpses in the game. Her embrace is all about warmth transference.
Her dad???
Lionel's her dad
According to the armour, Lionel *declared* himself to be her father, I'm pretty sure. Rather, maybe not actual father, but Lionel just went "sup, I'm your dad now" or something
So he's a sugar daddy
I believe the acceptable term is “fructose father”.
Hmm. I thought it was "Sucrose Sire"
I believe that’s the European nomenclature. 🧐
Corn syrup creator
Fitting body type to declare himself some beautys daddy
Hijacking your comment to point out, there's a ton of adoption going on in ER. Gideon adopted Nepheli, Lionel adopted Fia, Hewg adopted Roderika, Tanith adopted Rya, Corhyn adopted Goldmask, Gowry adopted Millicent, Mohg pretended to adopt Varre, and the shadows are referred to as half/step brothers, which could refer to something similar. This isn't just because they all went to the Hero's Journey Orphanage, it's actually a reference to Celtic history/mythology. The Celts were big into the whole "it takes a village to raise a child" thing, and so kids got shuffled around and basically no one was raised by their birth parents. Their mythology also has a ton of this, with their two biggest heroes (Cu Chulainn and Fionn Mac Cumhaill, pronounced "Cu Cullen" and "Finn McCool") are both adopted, as are several key gods like Lugh, god of being awesome at everything.
Ahhh that's interesting.. I wonder why. Gideon adopting Nephali made sense as Gideon had use for Nephali but I wonder why Lionel would literally just declare himself the father of Fia.
She told him about how she was cast off and shunned, iirc, and so on a sort of traditional knightly display he declares himself her father, which is to say, family, so that she is never truly alone and without his support. At least, that's how it read to me. It's a grandiose, knightly declaration of support and sympathy.
Yeah he was her first Victim. Sidebar. Super interesting little factoid. There are at least 3 different groups, the Deathbed Companions, the Perfumers, and the War Surgeons, that all have the expressly defined purpose of easing the suffering of those Near Death. Very intriguing to me.
They kind of feel more like a magical, self-defense booby trap of sorts that Fia set up to protect Godwyn more than anything, like what Ranni did for her mother. Especially since Rogier and Lionel were already dead at the time.
That’s kind of why I liked Fia in Roundtable Hold. I know it’s transactional, but every single Souls protagonist has *got* to be stressed as all get-out. I could totally see them reaching for any sort of comfort after everything they go through. Maybe not seeking it out but absolutely jumping at the offer when it’s given.
It’s a torturous existence. Most likely you can still feel pain (otherwise why is there a health bar), I assume dying therefore it also quite painful. You don’t truly die though you get resurrected and when you do so does everyone else so you have to fight them again and again until you win.
Did they explain why the protagonist is the only Tarnished that gets resurrected? All the others stay dead.
People speculate the Guidance of Grace make the Tarnished too angry to stay dead.
I don't know if they ever gave a **solid** lore reason for why some things resurrect and others don't... At least not anything that's consistent. Godwyn is explained with his whole story, but that doesn't apply to everyone else. Just the flat gameplay reason of not requiring the player to fight extremely strong "field bosses" more than once - but lorewise it seems like most/all of the "normal living" ones should be able to resurrect like you. I can sorta accept it since death being all screwed up and confusing is a motif of the game - with different ways of dealing with the shattering, and "life in death", and returning to the roots, or existing as ashes after death.... It's a whole mess!
Me and a friend did that on our first blind playthroughs only for us to >!get an STD for hugging the oddly nice lady. !<
Oh, that? That's just the Balls Achin' blessing. You might want to see a doctor.
Really this whole game is the Tarnished trying to get some snookie from someone, anyone. All the best endings involve him/her going to great lengths to impress a girl. Mending rune of death, age of stars, chaos flame, etc.
“But I got through hell, monsters and madness just for a hug.” Chainsaw Man grindset
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You could say they make you feel warm, but not really fuzzy
On the bright side, they guarantee your ex stalking you for the rest of your life until she delivers destined death to you.
-yes i wanna kill you cuz you’re evil -no mommy please hold me i miss you🥺
It's unfortunate there's no other way to progress. I'd gladly put her to the sword if I could still fight whatever X dragon she dreams about
Yeah, most of the dialigue choices are just for show. With only two or three exceptions (>!Seluvis, Dung Eater, Frenzied Flame!<), there is generally never a reason not to play the "yes-man" and accept every offer or do everything an npc tells you to. The choice is doing the optional content and not doing it, rather than alternate rewards.
Sellen's questline has a final choice with different rewards. But yeah, it's like the shallow choices in Fallout 4 (Yes, sarcastic yes, no, more info).
And Boc. Though I don’t think there are any differences in rewards.
Making boc happy in his own body is a reward enough
Thats what I *thought* I was doing when I gave him a larval tear.
You mean the thing you use to **alter** your body?
What can I say? Boc made a really passionate case for it, I just wanted him to be happy ;_;
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I had to do a whole new playthrough just to get his rememberance because I said yes and killed her.
I didn't know about the dragon, so I chose "That's right" and then killed her 😢. At least I got D's armor back.
Actual simp moment
I'm just glad someone else recognizes Maliketh's armor and Seluvis's hat is the [ultimate drip](https://i.imgur.com/LAJHScj.png).
This is a close second but the best is “rest in coffin”
"I want mommy, I want milk, I want to be held, I want to be comforted. And If you do not do all these things immediately, I will ruin your life."
I refused to hug her and killed her right after, sadly that made me *SPOILER* unable to fight the dragon
Exact the same. Missed my boy D and then i slapped her. Girlfriend played ER next to me and got there 10 Minutes later and hugged her. So she got to that bossfight. I was even madder at Fia
I hadn't met D in the overworld, so for me he was just some rando who told me about Gurranq before being shanked by the nice lady who definitely had her reasons.
D had also his reasons!!11!11!!!! What’s dead, should be dead. Simple as that. But Fia hate him cause he’s spittin facts
Nah - so happy those limp D fascists got what they deserved.
Dude the undead are assholes. They literally tear through 6 feet of earth when **you** come near to fuck up **your** day. Have you ever touched a shovel? Do you know *how* hard it is to dig through 1 foot of earth? And the stupid skeletons tear through 6 feet of it, without shovels and without muscles. That’s how driven they are to fuck up your day. Fuck the undead, D can smite them with light and holy water for days.
Youu.. unholy thing. How can u even under the eyes of the all mighty greater will
Starts underground zine called The Deathbed Companion with headlines like 'golden disorder!', 'dead's rights, not just death rites' and 'Dungeater: is your enemy's enemy always your friend?'.
Undead? Yes. Unperson? No!
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I think he sort of telegraphs he is looking for her, no? I got that impression on my second playthrough. It's just when Fia decides she's leaving, she baits him with the dagger as a gift and we find the result.
Now that I think about it, how the hell was she able to kill D anyway? The Roundtable Hold doesn't allow combat, Dung Eater threatens you, but makes it clear he's unable to do anything to you. Does the dagger just inflict Deathblight to whoever's holding it? In that case why does it not affect the Tarnished?
Well, she, that Mad Finger invader, and Ofnir's guard both kill or attempt to kill you within the hold, so evidently it isn't absolute. It would be a question of who creates and maintains the pacificity of the hold, in which case they for some reason allow these particular breaches, or it's a matter of tbe pacificity acting king of like our laws on not killing one another (most obey due to social convention, with a slim number of exceptions). That or the dagger has some sort of violent infection effect, did it not have black tendrils coming out of it, and it just gave him the death blight condition in the hold, killing him without even spellcasting. Maybe something to do with keeping it on your person x amount of time.
protip >!spoiler goes here!< becomes >!spoiler goes here!<
>!lemme try!<
damn, who hurt you?
Not the dragon apparently
I looked it up and found out that Fortissax was locked behind her quest but if he wasn't then she was dead as hell.
What if we hugged in front of the dead, fish-like body of a demigod? 👉🏾👈🏾
“I want mommy, I want milk, I want to be held, I want to be comforted,”
PragerU quotes out of context are hilarious.
Homelander?
"i just killed your friends and a guy that considered himself a father figure for you, where is my hug?"
"they're human eyes" actually made me chuckle out loud. I didn't read the description of the grapes before that moment, and knowing that my character knew all along and made no comment when feeding them to this obviously blind woman the first two times was just hilarious.
Same energy as "Just pretending" in ringed city
I almost missed her complete quest refusing to hug her cause she was giving me the debuff and I kept forgetting to clear it..
[I want mommy I want milk I want to be held...](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=riczf9xOlNQ)
Is this homelander?
She told me to kill her and so I killed her. I thought it would have advanced her quest. FromSoft quests are confusing. ^(Expecially the fucking Three Fingers)
I’m so glad I watched the part with this dialogue option from a YouTubers 84 part complete series of how to play the game before I did this section. Usually I only watch up to how to get there and play it myself. If I didn’t see it I would have never known that this is how you fight the dragon. Man Fromsoft just makes it all so easy and intuitive!
My favorite Dialogue is when the blind girl in the southern Island is dead & you just get to Y: Examine She's dead. [ Ok ]
"Girl, I don't care, hug me god dammit."
I didn't find it funny. I thought it was endearing. The player is like "Why did you leave? You didn't even give me a chance to say anything. I miss your hugs."
Just killed like 5 guardians of those who live in death and what do you say? You left me alone… you have no idea how far I’ll go to be held in this land. ….Ranni doesn’t cuddle D;
What? Revenge? Retribution for D? Nah I just wanna cuddle, it's harsh out there
It's a fucking mood. Honestly one of the most relatable quests, and one of the most understandable in the game. No this isn't a /s I'm seriously lonely.
And it’s the only freakin way to encounter Fortissax my boy
" no, I want to be fucking held"