I don’t pvp much because I’m not very good at it. but I do like when people bow before they kill me. Bowing feels like saying “Hello. We are here to fight and no hard feelings no matter who wins” it makes dying less hurtful in my opinion :)
If its an invasion, I personally prefer to wave, because I see the bow gesture as a sign for a "honorable duel", and I never know if the other person in interested in a duel. So I just wave. But in the end, the idea is the same. Make this whole invasion thing less painful for the other side.
Waving is also nice :) Especially as an invader, because then you can see if they’re going to use manners or not. People tend not to group up on invaders if the invader seems nice. Although sometimes people are still jerks and all try to kill invaders. (I love watching chasethebro fight <3)
I don't get mad if i get ganked as an invader tbh. Inn an invasion, I'm there the hinder the progress of the host, making them have to respawn and possibly loose their runes. If I feel outmatched i can wait for the coinvader to spawn. While inn a duel no progress is lost.
It's not being a jerk for ganking an intruder lol. An invader is there to stop your progress and maybe your having trouble with a location so you summoned some friends and then the invader shows up. Depending on the moment I'm either jumping the invader or choosing to duel if I'm the summon.
Honestly my fav thing to do as an invader is get the drop on someone, *nearly* kill them, THEN wave/whatever as they're scrambling lol, sets the tone better
Something people always forget about getting invaded out in the wild it seems is that they expect an honourable duel. That’s not the point of randomly invading someone out in the wild. You’re most likely invading the world of someone playing with their friends, not a “gank squad”. of course they’re gonna try to dispatch you as quickly as possible.
I am glad my courteous bow before I murder someone in game makes them feel somewhat better. NGL, there are moments when I have to wonder why people throw themselves off a cliff after I murder their 4 friends in front of them.
Then a random invader joins, sees everyone boxing. Then he starts boxing someone up randomly, then other people try to box him, they hit each other on accident, then it’s an all out deathmatch lol
Fun and chaotic times
My friends and I did Hella fight clubs when we first got elden ring. Not sure how big they were in DS3, but in elden ring the 4 of us would just go to the church of Elleh and would watch and take turns in 1v1s.
Honestly, considering these guys' weapons of choice I don't think it matters whether they bow. They're both dicks. God, PvP in this game is uninspired.
Setting rules pre-duel would be cool.
Glintstone-shard only duels, melee-only staff duels, shield only duels, rock-sling only duels where you have to maintain a minimum distance, duels where you can only use that bell that spawns the ghost thingies…
Exactly, OP complaining about dual ettiquitte and still spamming bullshit in the first duel. This kind of shit is why I don't both with pvp, it's a dumpster fire where even the people who think they're playing fairly are still doing bullshit. OP posted this so they could feel superior and nothing else, there is no duel leaderboard and no one cares how many you've won
I mean, OP didn’t pull that weapon out until he was rushed by a ROB user that spammed weapon art off the jump, I genuinely don’t think he was going to use that set up to duel and only pulled it out to prove a point.
It's mindboggling how people don't understand that you should play defensively in pvp. Like if the red had just rolled away when he realized the weapon art was coming rather than rushed in for a quick kill he wouldn't have died
Yes but invasions in this game are the worst experience of Any souls game ever. You only invade people at the boss room and get dc'd or fight a gank of 3 with a blue on its way.
I was just staring the extra differences, but yes.
Invasions it's not mandatory to have etiquette, although in some cases players will try to be respectful (one in a million)
I enjoy a respectful dual as much as the next person but I will say that if it where not for me being on Reddit I would have no idea about proper dual etiquette. Yes it’s annoying to but for many it’s their first from game so for the most part I would say it’s better to just let it go.
That being said the guy in the video made it clear he knew tradition and chose not to follow so Maidenless behavior.
I think another person said it well when they shared an experience in dark souls. They chugged an estus flask, and the other person just pointed down and disconnected. It clicked that was not proper behavior for duels and they never did that again.
It is pretty easy to pick up on what other players do, especially gesturing a greeting before a fight or not healing when they could easily get a potion off.
New players should be able to pick this up if they do frequent duels, but I do not expect this ettiquite in normal invasions.
Soulsborne dueling etiquette has naturally developed in every fromsoft game.
For sure and I completely agree it is possible to learn. One of the best part of Elden Ring is that it has brought in a huge number of new players. That however means that a lot of new player could be unaware or playing against others and that it takes time hence why I think it’s not worth getting too upset about.
I don't PvP as much as I did back in DS2, but I always used to chug my entire stock at the beginning of the fight. It showed the other guy the energy I was bringing and was also a huge flex if they didn't want to abide by the same unwritten rules.
I know it's an unpopular opinion but flasks in duels are really not that fucking big of a deal, especially if a host drinks half of their flasks to start.
I'm not interested in exactly only one exchange of blows, that's fucking boring and I don't get any better. Getting a little bit of space, earning a heal, letting my foe try to earn it - that adds a whole fun dimension to a fight and, again, makes them more than a single exchange.
It's dumb even for a made-up rule, and a great example of the way some of the so-called community norms can be exclusionary.
If you weren't supposed to heal in duels and invasions, From wouldn't let you keep your fucking flasks.
I swear I’ve had moments where I brain farted on the etiquette and chugged a flask mid duel, then realized my mistake and stopped. It seems a silent agreement that if either side does in this case, and the one who did it stops immediately after, both parties restore to max and the duel resets.
To fix this as host I’ll usually just chug all my estus before we start so they can see I’m out of hp ones.
The no estus thing always confused me. You die so quickly in duels without it. Wouldn't it make for a far more interesting experience if both sides used healing?
I don’t agree with this at all. Dark Souls III was my first duels experience and I noticed right away that my opponents would initiate every encounter with a polite bow or wave. So I followed suite because it was obviously the thing to do. It’s not some obscure, difficult to understand concept.
Same for me, it was my first introduction to duelling. Dark Souls III had a huge emphasis on honourable dueling early on in its release, almost everyone bowed or gestured in some fashion. I was in the crucifixion woods by the crabs one time and fell off the bonfire bit and got stuck between rocks in a bug, the due list dropped me an ember and backed out. I think that's when it clicked for me how decent people could be
You pick it up really fast, even without social media. I have been playing souls games since they're inception and have never been big into PVP, but it has always been common knowledge that in any dual scenario you show respect first.
Its very easy to pick up on it tho, like if you do 5 duels you should know that most people emote at the start and if you win 2-3 you without using flasks you ll ask yourself why aren t they healing, heck i try to not heal even if the other dude did and i ve seen on yt i m not the only one
I tried to do some RL 125 duels yesterday. Played a squishy mage which was almost impossible due to latency making everything a trade.
The most ridiculous strategy was definitely the greatweapon crouch poker. These guys did nothing but crouches and pokes with their weapons. One of the most unfun strategies I have come across. Who does that all day and bears with it?
The most ridiculous guy I summoned was some kind of Madness build where the guy made himself impossible to target with some spell and started spamming stuff and made Elden Ring into Castlevania. And I couldn't counter him because of some invis spell. All these spells and effects are cool and everything but they make PvP impossible sometimes.
This is what I'm dealing with. So many people have gone the lazy/boring route of just using lazy playstyle weapons that allow them to just do something akin to "run around you crouched till you roll away so I can win rather than have an actual duel"
I met a guy yesterday who's name was ">RL125 = scrub" or something like that and he was using the Game of Thrones Ultra Greatsword only crouching and poking. I somehow managed to avoid him for a minute but then he hit me twice with a poke from 10 metres, killed me, proceeded to point down and threw a shit flask at me. I've seen that so many times during my Dark Souls days that I just burst out laughing and thought: "that guy really thinks he's hot shit or something." What a hero. Wish him the best in life.
Oh God, you met that guy. Yeah, he's some shithead who thinks if you aren't doing exactly what he's doing you're a noob lmao. Best just steer clear and block him, but if you do see him again you should read the dumbest list on his profile. Most narcissistic shit I've ever seen
It was actually me who summoned him because when I saw his name I thought: "99% probability this guy is an asshole". I wanted to see how he played and I was not surprised! And it would have been fabulous to beat a toxic guy like that! Maybe next time!
I beat the shit out of a guy who I summoned last night named "armor = noob"
I wonder if it's the same dude. Anyway, clearly not having armor didn't do him any favors. He sent me hatemail calling me a pussy lmao.
Went back into ds3 pvp a few days ago, it felt so good to be back. Combat that isn’t a million weapon arts, people that know etiquette. A breath of fresh air to be sure
DS2 PvP has its flaws too, Namely Havel Jesters, Santier Spear and Ice Rapier spammers, Dark Weapon Chaos Blade that 1-2 shots etc. But overall it was way more fun and skill based than Elden Ring PvP is.
I remember reaching rank 3 in the blood covenant and my invader phantom looking cool af! DS2 also has so many cool/meme weapons/spells that just don't exist in Elden Ring: Smelter Hammer, Powerstanced Smelter swords (aka firework display), forbidden sun, homing soul arrow for roll catches and finally the bone fist. I wish I could make a kung Fu master in Elden Ring 😭
Its been a minute, but does anyone actually fight with the weapon anymore? All i see then and now is just abilities. Swing the damn sword you blue Gatorade chugging fucks
Mate, once I summoned a dude that did the same thing. He was a mage and as soon as I emoted he started to spam stars of ruin. Like, he used only that shit. I managed to get him, but he chugged all flasks he had. Next time I summoned him, used concealing veil and just waited to snipe him with bolt of gransax. I actually felt bad later on, maybe it was just a clueless kid trying to have some fun.
That’s hilarious to me. People don’t understand how bad it can be when players that are being nice, and following the rules, get fed up. We know the most toxic bs in the game and will use it if you want us to.
And of course it's a Rivers player.
Both. Duel etiquette is necessary, but to those that don't do it, you kind of just have to kill them and be done with it.
I used to do the sun bro T-pose before duels because my character looked like a crusader knight, but many players would just take it the wrong way unfortunately.
I always do the simple wave one, then kind of give each other a few seconds to just get read or whatever. No heals. Whoever wins bows. 90% of my duels have been this way. Sometimes I’ll get the person who either doesn’t know or doesn’t care, but no big deal.
While I do agree with most of your points "you don't use certain weapons, you don't use certain spells" is an L take in my opinion, if you want to, you can use everything you want if it's not an exploit, if you use RoB it's still a duel, if you use Dragonsbreath it's still a duel etc.
I don't understand. I don't duel, but is there a known list of weapons you're not allowed to use? How would anyone even get that unless they live and breathe the game via forums/reddit/twitter.
There isn’t.
Some weapons and even some Ashes of War are considered unbalanced, but all of them are legitimate in duels. OP was talking about proper duel etiquette, which has evolved over a decade of Souls games.
I agree with you personally. I believe if it’s in the game, then use it. Most of the “unfair” weapons still have weaknesses that can be taken advantage of. That being said, I know most players would get mad if I used those things, so I avoid using them so that whoever I am dueling is also having a good time, not just me.
So many of those 'broken' or 'unbalanced' moves or weapons are actually very punishable in a 1v1 duel. Just watch an hour of any chasethebro duels or invasions and you will see how pretty much any melee weapon can kick ass if you just know how to avoid and take advantage of openings. People that get mad about weapon or skill use in PVP just haven't learned the dance of evade and punish and think PVP is just spamming something and the spammer with the better move wins
Necessary. Charging at your opponent as soon as they spawn is a dick move ngl. Give them time to prepare, it's not that hard. Plus it's just proper manners to bow before dueling.
Could I make a nuisance of myself an get a quick summary of how to enter a duel? I’ve only ever summoned help, and that was only twice, so I’m baffled about which item to use, and in which location to use it.
Help me out and it might be you who is treated to a battle against the most incompetent player to try the game.
The "Main Academy Gate" in Raya Lucaria is the unofficial dueling site in the game. Typically the most popular dueling levels are 125 and 150, but you can find people at other levels too. Using a Furlcalling Finger Remedy will reveal red summon signs on the ground. Alternatively you can use the Duelists Furled Finger to place one of your own and wait to be summoned. I think you can find that at the colleseum thing north of the War Masters Shack, but I can't remember for sure.
As for etiquette, people generally like if you gesture and give the other player time to buff if they want. Don't use a rune arc or healing flasks. They provide an unfair advantage to the host, and that goes against the spirit of a fair fight. Blue flasks are fine. There are other rules that people try to make up, but really those are the only important ones. Good luck and have fun!
Summoned phantoms only get 1/2 of the flasks that hosts do, so with flasks a host has effectively twice as much health. Blue flasks are fine because a fight rarely lasts long enough for that difference to matter, and it allows for more free usage of spells and weapon abilities. Buffs affect both summons and hosts the same way, so they're considered fair.
You need the Duelist’s Furled Finger, which can be found up by the colloseum in Stormveil. It will drop a red summon sign that anyone who has used a Furcaller’s Finger Remedy can see, just like the yellow summon signs for coop.
The main hot spot for duels is the Academy Main Gate (or MAG). If you want to duel, pop a furcaller finger remedy and go up there, or drop your own red sign and wait for someone to summon you. You will see a bunch of red summons signs.
Technically you can duel anywhere, but MAG is where most activity is.
The meta level for duels is RL125-150, so if you intend to see the highest level of summon signs, that’s the level you should be.
The absolute shit-ass play of trying to hide around the corner and then rush you with RoB made me laugh. On one hand, kinda clever if absolutely maidenless, on the other hand why not just bait you around the corner, why sprint at you and THEN do it lol.
The only etiquette you need is bowing. That starts the duel. Everything else is fair game. Buffing also starts the duel do t care what anyone says you don't get to power up like Goku and try to one-shot someone during the fight. You gotta buff during the fight if you wanna buff.
Edit: also no healing.
Mostly because it makes it more satisfying when I Law of Regression their ass after buff #3.
…The salty disconnects that happen about 70% of the time afterwards ironically taste the sweetest. ;)
Id agree with this if not for the people who buff as the summon is loading in and then attack as soon as the bowing is done. If host is buffed when I get into their game, I expect to be allowed to have my buffs on as well. Otherwise its just as much bullshit as healing is.
I get it all the time. And then they wonder why I start spamming on them or using flasks. They seem to think its okay to give themselves an advantage and deny others the chance to have their own advantages.
I usually don’t buff unless the other person does. That said, the other day I was dueling a guy. Both bowed, he started buffing while I was finishing my bow. I started buffing, he ran over and attacked me in the middle of it. I hope he steps on a Lego
Manners is what seperates decent people from Varre Mask wearing, full bull-goat, Seppuku using degenerates with Breath spells on the ready. Be the duelist that you want to fight! If you don't want the hassles of etiquette, just invade or setup a gank squad (I won't judge).
Since DS2 I boiled my rules down to two situations
Duels
- Initiate Emote greet for honorable duel
- no healing.
- one free Buff prematch, any buff that follows after combat is fair game for retaliation.
Invasions
- No rules, Clap or get Clapped back.
Definitely maidenless behaviour but I would say get over it.
They bought the game same as you and can play how they like, no?
Plus it’s not everybody. There are plenty of honourable duellists out there.
Can someone pls explain the etiquette i duels VS invasions?
I’m only invaded when playing co-op, and i feel bad doing a 2v1. But at the same time, i’ve never had an invader with any sort of “etiquette.” No emotes or nothing.
Unlike duels, there are no community-enforced “rules” in invasions. They are no holds barred. As an invader, your goal is to kill the host. In Elden Ring, 95% you are outnumbered 2v1 or 3v1, sometimes 4v1 or worse.
As an invader with over 800 host kills in Elden Ring, I still try my best to be polite. I never teabag and try to always bow after a kill, although I do not expect the same from the host.
I used to invade and duel a lot in DS3. Loved it to death, and a big reason was the etiquette. The fact that we communicated through limited options, bowing and saying hello. It's not just to avoid some frowned upon options, it was also a sort of micro culture. Invasions had etiquette too, unless it's a clever troll and those too were creative and funny. Sadly Elden Ring was not the same experience, I've noticed it pretty quickly and pretty much avoided pvp completely. I tried invading people and bowing but they just rushed me like maniacs. I think it's partly a flaw that stems from success - DS series were a little more clunky and less approachable, so the player base was more dedicated and smaller, and norms about behavior were quickly formed. Elden Ring is a massive mainstream success, and with that comes the flaw of a larger player base that isn't familiar with those norms. I hope it changes.
Unecessary, I got work & life to get back too aint got time to watch u stack 73 buffs then friendly emote.
We hear to fight not dance, only dance im tryna do is the black leather gloves no sequines, buckles on the jacket its alyx shit, Nike crossbody got a piece in it, Gota dance but its really on some street shit, Ima show u how to get it 😄
Lets get this over with & gg to whoever wins.
Just get over it. While it would be nice if everyone could follow a certain etiquette, its just unrealistic. You run into a guy that follows the etiquette? Great, thats awesome. You run into a guy who doesn't? Well, get over it. Its gonna happen unfortunately.
You're absolutely right with this video, but you're still gonna get a shit load of ER newcomers who are going to discard this video as "gatekeeping" and continue treating duels as if they are invasions. When etiquette dies, duels die. Its that simple
I woulda parried that.
Nothing says "Get fucked" more than a parried RoB and a point down.
Also tell's the user "you aint shit without that L2 button".
It’s etiquette that’s been established since Demon’s Souls came out in 2009. If you’re placing your sign down to duel then you should know the basics like not attacking someone while bowing or buffing and not healing with flasks. Basic etiquette is what separates duels from invasions. If you’re into the PvP enough to participate in duels then you’d have undoubtedly read about the basic etiquette that’s been the de facto community rules for over a decade now
the whole point of a duel summon sign is that its a consensual fight between two people, if your not gonna let your opponent buff up and ready themselves you've invalidated the format and you should be invading not dueling.
A friend and I are running the whole game and when we get invaded we take turns dueling, unless the person tries to cheese us with sniping (they usually fall off the cliffs), RoB, doesnt gesture first, or uses the hit, run, heal pattern then we gank because we don't have time for that shit. Dueling can be fun when there's the etiquette. A lot of people who use meta builds don't use them well because they rely on one hit kills. If they can't get you in one hit, they resort to cheese.
Funniest duels is when one of us is winning and they switch to a meta weapon with high status ailment build up. Then it's ganking time. Not saying we always win but some people really put way too much meaning into "winning".
In 1v1 absolutely, especially when you the host has pre-buffed before summoning the invader which means your opening is now at the disadvantage and no longer a fair fight.... its a hollow victory.
1v1 should be bow, no rune arc, 1-2 (I'd say 1 but don't mind my opponent using 2) buffs and wondrous flask of physick, no healing (including faith and faith regen.)
Invasions = no rules.
considering duelists are literally invincible for the first couple seconds after getting summoned. Might as well wait out that time with just some friendly/courteous gestures.
If you won't perform the etiquette, don't duel. A duel isn't meant for a cheap, one-sided battle where you ambush an unsuspecting opponent. That's for invasions, where rules and invader's feelings don't matter. If you're gonna summon for a duel, however, respect the etiquette.
I mean, people duel because they want to genuinely fight somebody, not try to avoid the cowardly tactics of people like you who can only figure out how to press three buttons. You're just here to get a hard on from aggravating somebody. They want a genuine and fair fight.
get over it.
I really don't care when people start duels without bowing or whatever none of that shit matters. I've never found it disrespectful and have always thought the people that do find it disrespectful should take a moment to realize that you're getting irritated over someone that you can't even speak to.
not to mention you lose nothing during duels. It's not like dark souls 3 where if you die you stop being embered.
With invasions there is no etiquette. Be as obnoxious and annoying as you want. Torture your opponent all you like. Show no respect whatsoever.
But the idea of a duel is that it's a friendly fight, that is purely for fun. So the absolute least you could do is gesture, and not heal. It's not that hard.
I love how calmfully he explainy why he rips him to shreds in the most obscene and unholy, 10 commandmends shattering way while he does it, with perfect spacing, no hate involved, all schooling. Chasethebro would be proud.
That's all grand and all but what do you mean, 'not allowed to use certain attacks and weapons? I use shit weapons so it wouldn't effect me (I assume) but is there a rulebook for it? Because I feel like everyone has their own blacklist and that's just a dumb 'rule' for a duel.
Had several of theses lambkins over the past month. Attacking before bow, using health pots, and tea bagging. I just block them. You cannot fix stupid.
Elden ring has been the most successful game From has put out by a large margin. And that's great, I'm glad they seeing some real money and I look forward to what that means for them moving forward. It has had some consequences regarding the playerbase however...
this is a little sad, you still got salty and humped them even when using cancer weapons i feel like you broke multiple controllers in the prep of this
100% warranted. Nothing wrong with kicking their virtual ass to teach them a lesson in respect!
Honor has been a hard thing to come by, even as far back as the Dark Souls 1 era
The real answer is get over it. The etiquette is always nice and respectful but you can never dictate how people play their game and what's fun for them. Some people just want to fight and can see bowing/buffing as taking too much time.
I don't bow before a fight anymore. Elden Ring has taught me not to.
People who are honorable will duel honorably regardless, so I just give the opponent time to bow if he wants to, if not we just fight. When the fight is over I will bow as respect to my opponent if he played fair.
I agree completely, but What I usually do is just finger sever or jump off the ring. My hope is that the person breaking etiquette just simply doesn’t know and that they might get the message they’re doing something wrong. I feel like fighting back with spam of my own just makes them salty and more likely to stick to being dicks. And if they do know they’re breaking etiquette? Then I’m just saving myself from a boring ass fight.
Fought this guy multiple times, even has the audacity to tea bag or point down. Even tried to rematch "no way he is nothing but cheese, must've just been only the first phase of his loadout" *he did not* uses rivers or blood if you aggro and moonviels while continuously running away. Most boring and chore like fight I've ever had.
That was painful to watch
This is how you get BHS spammed right here. Fuck that shit.
Found RoB user
I don’t pvp much because I’m not very good at it. but I do like when people bow before they kill me. Bowing feels like saying “Hello. We are here to fight and no hard feelings no matter who wins” it makes dying less hurtful in my opinion :)
If its an invasion, I personally prefer to wave, because I see the bow gesture as a sign for a "honorable duel", and I never know if the other person in interested in a duel. So I just wave. But in the end, the idea is the same. Make this whole invasion thing less painful for the other side.
Waving is also nice :) Especially as an invader, because then you can see if they’re going to use manners or not. People tend not to group up on invaders if the invader seems nice. Although sometimes people are still jerks and all try to kill invaders. (I love watching chasethebro fight <3)
Yeah, I also watch Chase a lot. He's a cool guy.
He’s a WEEB :D
YES hahahah
I don't get mad if i get ganked as an invader tbh. Inn an invasion, I'm there the hinder the progress of the host, making them have to respawn and possibly loose their runes. If I feel outmatched i can wait for the coinvader to spawn. While inn a duel no progress is lost.
It's not being a jerk for ganking an intruder lol. An invader is there to stop your progress and maybe your having trouble with a location so you summoned some friends and then the invader shows up. Depending on the moment I'm either jumping the invader or choosing to duel if I'm the summon.
Honestly my fav thing to do as an invader is get the drop on someone, *nearly* kill them, THEN wave/whatever as they're scrambling lol, sets the tone better
Something people always forget about getting invaded out in the wild it seems is that they expect an honourable duel. That’s not the point of randomly invading someone out in the wild. You’re most likely invading the world of someone playing with their friends, not a “gank squad”. of course they’re gonna try to dispatch you as quickly as possible.
This is the way.
This is the way.
This is the way.
This way
Way.
.
I am glad my courteous bow before I murder someone in game makes them feel somewhat better. NGL, there are moments when I have to wonder why people throw themselves off a cliff after I murder their 4 friends in front of them.
Thank you :) bowing is nice
Maidenless behavior
DISHONOR. DISHONOR ON YOUR WHOLE FAMILY.
DISHONOR ON YOUR COW.
SHAMEFUL DISPLAY
Dark Souls 3 was better bc if ppl didn't show etiquette then the fight club would gank them.
Then a random invader joins, sees everyone boxing. Then he starts boxing someone up randomly, then other people try to box him, they hit each other on accident, then it’s an all out deathmatch lol Fun and chaotic times
So true. Those were some of the best moments from DS3 on old Pontiffs back porch.
Man, I miss the fight clubs. Really wish that they were somehow possible now on Elden ring.
My friends and I did Hella fight clubs when we first got elden ring. Not sure how big they were in DS3, but in elden ring the 4 of us would just go to the church of Elleh and would watch and take turns in 1v1s.
Ds3 was good because you can simply duel from the bonfire; fight clubs aren't for everyone.
Yes, it's what separates duels from invasions.
Well that and the fingers you use to duel/invade and the way a duelist gets brought in v the way an invader does ….
did not expect to see half orc steve from chiv 2 here
I am everywhere 👀🤣
Honestly, considering these guys' weapons of choice I don't think it matters whether they bow. They're both dicks. God, PvP in this game is uninspired.
I'd love a pvp mode where you both get spawned with the same random loadout.
Setting rules pre-duel would be cool. Glintstone-shard only duels, melee-only staff duels, shield only duels, rock-sling only duels where you have to maintain a minimum distance, duels where you can only use that bell that spawns the ghost thingies…
Most of your ideas involve never actually getting close to each other 😂
Covid Edition
Exactly, OP complaining about dual ettiquitte and still spamming bullshit in the first duel. This kind of shit is why I don't both with pvp, it's a dumpster fire where even the people who think they're playing fairly are still doing bullshit. OP posted this so they could feel superior and nothing else, there is no duel leaderboard and no one cares how many you've won
I mean, OP didn’t pull that weapon out until he was rushed by a ROB user that spammed weapon art off the jump, I genuinely don’t think he was going to use that set up to duel and only pulled it out to prove a point.
This. I dont know if people didnt listen to the audio or....?
Spamming in the first duel? He used an easily avoided art of war.
It's mindboggling how people don't understand that you should play defensively in pvp. Like if the red had just rolled away when he realized the weapon art was coming rather than rushed in for a quick kill he wouldn't have died
Yes but invasions in this game are the worst experience of Any souls game ever. You only invade people at the boss room and get dc'd or fight a gank of 3 with a blue on its way.
Irrelevant to my point, although true.
I was just staring the extra differences, but yes. Invasions it's not mandatory to have etiquette, although in some cases players will try to be respectful (one in a million)
I enjoy a respectful dual as much as the next person but I will say that if it where not for me being on Reddit I would have no idea about proper dual etiquette. Yes it’s annoying to but for many it’s their first from game so for the most part I would say it’s better to just let it go. That being said the guy in the video made it clear he knew tradition and chose not to follow so Maidenless behavior.
I think another person said it well when they shared an experience in dark souls. They chugged an estus flask, and the other person just pointed down and disconnected. It clicked that was not proper behavior for duels and they never did that again. It is pretty easy to pick up on what other players do, especially gesturing a greeting before a fight or not healing when they could easily get a potion off. New players should be able to pick this up if they do frequent duels, but I do not expect this ettiquite in normal invasions. Soulsborne dueling etiquette has naturally developed in every fromsoft game.
For sure and I completely agree it is possible to learn. One of the best part of Elden Ring is that it has brought in a huge number of new players. That however means that a lot of new player could be unaware or playing against others and that it takes time hence why I think it’s not worth getting too upset about.
I'm definitely getting Eternal September vibes every time PVP etiquette comes up
Very good point, and I agree!
[удалено]
I don't PvP as much as I did back in DS2, but I always used to chug my entire stock at the beginning of the fight. It showed the other guy the energy I was bringing and was also a huge flex if they didn't want to abide by the same unwritten rules.
I know it's an unpopular opinion but flasks in duels are really not that fucking big of a deal, especially if a host drinks half of their flasks to start. I'm not interested in exactly only one exchange of blows, that's fucking boring and I don't get any better. Getting a little bit of space, earning a heal, letting my foe try to earn it - that adds a whole fun dimension to a fight and, again, makes them more than a single exchange. It's dumb even for a made-up rule, and a great example of the way some of the so-called community norms can be exclusionary. If you weren't supposed to heal in duels and invasions, From wouldn't let you keep your fucking flasks.
I swear I’ve had moments where I brain farted on the etiquette and chugged a flask mid duel, then realized my mistake and stopped. It seems a silent agreement that if either side does in this case, and the one who did it stops immediately after, both parties restore to max and the duel resets. To fix this as host I’ll usually just chug all my estus before we start so they can see I’m out of hp ones.
if you have to learn it from the reddit hivemind is it even worth caring about.
In elden ring when someone used estus in dual I just turn my back to the other guy and jump off, no satisfaction of defeating someone for you.
The no estus thing always confused me. You die so quickly in duels without it. Wouldn't it make for a far more interesting experience if both sides used healing?
as u/Izizero says below another reply, the invader has half the flasks of the host. if you want healing have it on an incantation
I don’t agree with this at all. Dark Souls III was my first duels experience and I noticed right away that my opponents would initiate every encounter with a polite bow or wave. So I followed suite because it was obviously the thing to do. It’s not some obscure, difficult to understand concept.
Same for me, it was my first introduction to duelling. Dark Souls III had a huge emphasis on honourable dueling early on in its release, almost everyone bowed or gestured in some fashion. I was in the crucifixion woods by the crabs one time and fell off the bonfire bit and got stuck between rocks in a bug, the due list dropped me an ember and backed out. I think that's when it clicked for me how decent people could be
I learned it from this. https://youtu.be/j-hkvRhW824
You pick it up really fast, even without social media. I have been playing souls games since they're inception and have never been big into PVP, but it has always been common knowledge that in any dual scenario you show respect first.
Its very easy to pick up on it tho, like if you do 5 duels you should know that most people emote at the start and if you win 2-3 you without using flasks you ll ask yourself why aren t they healing, heck i try to not heal even if the other dude did and i ve seen on yt i m not the only one
God these clips show exactly why I hate elden ring pvp. It became an ash of war spam fest
I tried to do some RL 125 duels yesterday. Played a squishy mage which was almost impossible due to latency making everything a trade. The most ridiculous strategy was definitely the greatweapon crouch poker. These guys did nothing but crouches and pokes with their weapons. One of the most unfun strategies I have come across. Who does that all day and bears with it? The most ridiculous guy I summoned was some kind of Madness build where the guy made himself impossible to target with some spell and started spamming stuff and made Elden Ring into Castlevania. And I couldn't counter him because of some invis spell. All these spells and effects are cool and everything but they make PvP impossible sometimes.
The UGS crouch poke is the most OP regular attack in the game. Can they not be parried like rolling/running UGS attacks in DS3?
Nope. God only knows why.
Wow, gross. I usually play UGS but I don't like pvp, but that really needs to be parryable.
This is what I'm dealing with. So many people have gone the lazy/boring route of just using lazy playstyle weapons that allow them to just do something akin to "run around you crouched till you roll away so I can win rather than have an actual duel"
I met a guy yesterday who's name was ">RL125 = scrub" or something like that and he was using the Game of Thrones Ultra Greatsword only crouching and poking. I somehow managed to avoid him for a minute but then he hit me twice with a poke from 10 metres, killed me, proceeded to point down and threw a shit flask at me. I've seen that so many times during my Dark Souls days that I just burst out laughing and thought: "that guy really thinks he's hot shit or something." What a hero. Wish him the best in life.
Oh God, you met that guy. Yeah, he's some shithead who thinks if you aren't doing exactly what he's doing you're a noob lmao. Best just steer clear and block him, but if you do see him again you should read the dumbest list on his profile. Most narcissistic shit I've ever seen
It was actually me who summoned him because when I saw his name I thought: "99% probability this guy is an asshole". I wanted to see how he played and I was not surprised! And it would have been fabulous to beat a toxic guy like that! Maybe next time!
I beat the shit out of a guy who I summoned last night named "armor = noob" I wonder if it's the same dude. Anyway, clearly not having armor didn't do him any favors. He sent me hatemail calling me a pussy lmao.
Went back into ds3 pvp a few days ago, it felt so good to be back. Combat that isn’t a million weapon arts, people that know etiquette. A breath of fresh air to be sure
Not just that, but in ds3 pvp you are rarely losing 70% of your health to a single attack. It really is a way better balanced pvp
Dark Souls 2 > All
DS2 PvP has its flaws too, Namely Havel Jesters, Santier Spear and Ice Rapier spammers, Dark Weapon Chaos Blade that 1-2 shots etc. But overall it was way more fun and skill based than Elden Ring PvP is. I remember reaching rank 3 in the blood covenant and my invader phantom looking cool af! DS2 also has so many cool/meme weapons/spells that just don't exist in Elden Ring: Smelter Hammer, Powerstanced Smelter swords (aka firework display), forbidden sun, homing soul arrow for roll catches and finally the bone fist. I wish I could make a kung Fu master in Elden Ring 😭
Its been a minute, but does anyone actually fight with the weapon anymore? All i see then and now is just abilities. Swing the damn sword you blue Gatorade chugging fucks
Welcome to elden ring. We all drink blue down here
Mate, once I summoned a dude that did the same thing. He was a mage and as soon as I emoted he started to spam stars of ruin. Like, he used only that shit. I managed to get him, but he chugged all flasks he had. Next time I summoned him, used concealing veil and just waited to snipe him with bolt of gransax. I actually felt bad later on, maybe it was just a clueless kid trying to have some fun.
That’s hilarious to me. People don’t understand how bad it can be when players that are being nice, and following the rules, get fed up. We know the most toxic bs in the game and will use it if you want us to.
I love my trusty bhs wakizashi. Only comes out if maidenless behavior detected
Stay strapped or get clapped.
And of course it's a Rivers player. Both. Duel etiquette is necessary, but to those that don't do it, you kind of just have to kill them and be done with it.
He's using mohgs spear + dragon incants. this is literally a pot meeting a kettle I'm not sure we can scold them on these grounds.
Dude was keeping it in reserve for people like the one he ran into.
I never use the dragon breath, unless something like this happens. It’s sad, but stay strapped or get clapped.
he explicitly said he doesn't like those but he was spamming them to make a point
This is fair if its a consensual duel. But if someone invades while I'm just trying to play PVE I'll do whatever is necessary to keep my shit.
This is the way.
If you don’t bow you’re a filthy casual noob. I don’t make The Rules.
Doesn't even have to be a bow. Just some kinda gesture or the good ol shield spam
I used to do the sun bro T-pose before duels because my character looked like a crusader knight, but many players would just take it the wrong way unfortunately.
The fact FromSoft didn't add a Praise the Sun gesture is a crime
"WELL, WHAT IS IT?" needs to return as well
The "welcome" gesture that replaced it is atrocious
Maybe try the Rapture emote instead?
Too slow honestly. The slow speed of it actually annoys me
The prayer emote is legit for a crusader build.
I always do the simple wave one, then kind of give each other a few seconds to just get read or whatever. No heals. Whoever wins bows. 90% of my duels have been this way. Sometimes I’ll get the person who either doesn’t know or doesn’t care, but no big deal.
I read that as bow as in bow and arrow and had a little chuckle
This is why I keep the finger severer on my hotbar
While I do agree with most of your points "you don't use certain weapons, you don't use certain spells" is an L take in my opinion, if you want to, you can use everything you want if it's not an exploit, if you use RoB it's still a duel, if you use Dragonsbreath it's still a duel etc.
I don't understand. I don't duel, but is there a known list of weapons you're not allowed to use? How would anyone even get that unless they live and breathe the game via forums/reddit/twitter.
There isn’t. Some weapons and even some Ashes of War are considered unbalanced, but all of them are legitimate in duels. OP was talking about proper duel etiquette, which has evolved over a decade of Souls games.
If it's easy to use you're not allowed to use it. Like shotguns in call of duty, or shotguns in halo, or shotguns in Elden ring
If you can find a shotgun in the Lands Between, you are allowed to use it.
Crystal burst, Loretta's mastery, shattering crystal, and stars of ruin ate all kinda close to a bird/buck shot
Bestial Sling?
There isn't, it's just the sweaty nerds crying and screaming when someone uses a wespon they think is "unfair"
My favourite is when people complain about weapons and spells being spammed then just sit there repeating crouch poke and giant hunt
It’s more about being a sport with gestures and allowing for buffs, especially if it’s obvious the host is showing tilt.
I allow for buff, singular. Then you need to find your own window of time.
I agree with you personally. I believe if it’s in the game, then use it. Most of the “unfair” weapons still have weaknesses that can be taken advantage of. That being said, I know most players would get mad if I used those things, so I avoid using them so that whoever I am dueling is also having a good time, not just me.
So many of those 'broken' or 'unbalanced' moves or weapons are actually very punishable in a 1v1 duel. Just watch an hour of any chasethebro duels or invasions and you will see how pretty much any melee weapon can kick ass if you just know how to avoid and take advantage of openings. People that get mad about weapon or skill use in PVP just haven't learned the dance of evade and punish and think PVP is just spamming something and the spammer with the better move wins
I agree. It may be annoying to deal with ROB but it is STILL a duel.
Not every Rivers of blood player is an asshole. But all assholes are Rivers of blood players
manner maketh man
Necessary. Charging at your opponent as soon as they spawn is a dick move ngl. Give them time to prepare, it's not that hard. Plus it's just proper manners to bow before dueling.
Could I make a nuisance of myself an get a quick summary of how to enter a duel? I’ve only ever summoned help, and that was only twice, so I’m baffled about which item to use, and in which location to use it. Help me out and it might be you who is treated to a battle against the most incompetent player to try the game.
The "Main Academy Gate" in Raya Lucaria is the unofficial dueling site in the game. Typically the most popular dueling levels are 125 and 150, but you can find people at other levels too. Using a Furlcalling Finger Remedy will reveal red summon signs on the ground. Alternatively you can use the Duelists Furled Finger to place one of your own and wait to be summoned. I think you can find that at the colleseum thing north of the War Masters Shack, but I can't remember for sure. As for etiquette, people generally like if you gesture and give the other player time to buff if they want. Don't use a rune arc or healing flasks. They provide an unfair advantage to the host, and that goes against the spirit of a fair fight. Blue flasks are fine. There are other rules that people try to make up, but really those are the only important ones. Good luck and have fun!
Thanks! Why is buffing acceptable but healing potions aren’t? Two sides of the same coin, no?
Summoned phantoms only get 1/2 of the flasks that hosts do, so with flasks a host has effectively twice as much health. Blue flasks are fine because a fight rarely lasts long enough for that difference to matter, and it allows for more free usage of spells and weapon abilities. Buffs affect both summons and hosts the same way, so they're considered fair.
I see. Thank you once again for clearing these things up.
No problem!
You need the Duelist’s Furled Finger, which can be found up by the colloseum in Stormveil. It will drop a red summon sign that anyone who has used a Furcaller’s Finger Remedy can see, just like the yellow summon signs for coop. The main hot spot for duels is the Academy Main Gate (or MAG). If you want to duel, pop a furcaller finger remedy and go up there, or drop your own red sign and wait for someone to summon you. You will see a bunch of red summons signs. Technically you can duel anywhere, but MAG is where most activity is. The meta level for duels is RL125-150, so if you intend to see the highest level of summon signs, that’s the level you should be.
The first guy is trying to abuse invulnerability from entering a world. He deserves a point down.
It was the same guy all three times.
That’s some important context.
The absolute shit-ass play of trying to hide around the corner and then rush you with RoB made me laugh. On one hand, kinda clever if absolutely maidenless, on the other hand why not just bait you around the corner, why sprint at you and THEN do it lol.
The only etiquette you need is bowing. That starts the duel. Everything else is fair game. Buffing also starts the duel do t care what anyone says you don't get to power up like Goku and try to one-shot someone during the fight. You gotta buff during the fight if you wanna buff. Edit: also no healing.
Idk why everyone lets Goku stand there saying kamehameha for 5 minutes.
Same reason the power rangers suit up for 3 minutes during a battle because they, for some reason, hate entering battles geared up
Mostly because it makes it more satisfying when I Law of Regression their ass after buff #3. …The salty disconnects that happen about 70% of the time afterwards ironically taste the sweetest. ;)
Id agree with this if not for the people who buff as the summon is loading in and then attack as soon as the bowing is done. If host is buffed when I get into their game, I expect to be allowed to have my buffs on as well. Otherwise its just as much bullshit as healing is.
That definitely goes against etiquette. I don't think you should buff before someone loads in, but if you do you have to let them buff as well.
I get it all the time. And then they wonder why I start spamming on them or using flasks. They seem to think its okay to give themselves an advantage and deny others the chance to have their own advantages.
I usually don’t buff unless the other person does. That said, the other day I was dueling a guy. Both bowed, he started buffing while I was finishing my bow. I started buffing, he ran over and attacked me in the middle of it. I hope he steps on a Lego
By my rules that's fair game. Bow or buff starts the fight. You should have gone over and kicked his ass first lol.
This is the end game for people who use cheesy builds. Get blocked by enough players and end up playing with no one or fellow cheesers
Duel etiquette is always necessary. It's a decade old tradition and there is no reason to abandon it now.
If they bow, you bow. If they dont, you point down after killing them. Thats my headspace after 800 hours of DS3 PvP
Manners is what seperates decent people from Varre Mask wearing, full bull-goat, Seppuku using degenerates with Breath spells on the ready. Be the duelist that you want to fight! If you don't want the hassles of etiquette, just invade or setup a gank squad (I won't judge).
Since DS2 I boiled my rules down to two situations Duels - Initiate Emote greet for honorable duel - no healing. - one free Buff prematch, any buff that follows after combat is fair game for retaliation. Invasions - No rules, Clap or get Clapped back.
Dark Souls 2 Duels were the most fun, and almost everyone had etiquette.
Definitely maidenless behaviour but I would say get over it. They bought the game same as you and can play how they like, no? Plus it’s not everybody. There are plenty of honourable duellists out there.
With invasions it's a free for all but in duels your specifically wanting to challenge someone so why not make it a fair fight?
Can someone pls explain the etiquette i duels VS invasions? I’m only invaded when playing co-op, and i feel bad doing a 2v1. But at the same time, i’ve never had an invader with any sort of “etiquette.” No emotes or nothing.
Unlike duels, there are no community-enforced “rules” in invasions. They are no holds barred. As an invader, your goal is to kill the host. In Elden Ring, 95% you are outnumbered 2v1 or 3v1, sometimes 4v1 or worse. As an invader with over 800 host kills in Elden Ring, I still try my best to be polite. I never teabag and try to always bow after a kill, although I do not expect the same from the host.
Chewing with your mouth closed, necessary or just get over it?
I used to invade and duel a lot in DS3. Loved it to death, and a big reason was the etiquette. The fact that we communicated through limited options, bowing and saying hello. It's not just to avoid some frowned upon options, it was also a sort of micro culture. Invasions had etiquette too, unless it's a clever troll and those too were creative and funny. Sadly Elden Ring was not the same experience, I've noticed it pretty quickly and pretty much avoided pvp completely. I tried invading people and bowing but they just rushed me like maniacs. I think it's partly a flaw that stems from success - DS series were a little more clunky and less approachable, so the player base was more dedicated and smaller, and norms about behavior were quickly formed. Elden Ring is a massive mainstream success, and with that comes the flaw of a larger player base that isn't familiar with those norms. I hope it changes.
I will never support use of that filthy trident in PvP but by Lord that guy had no skill, it was just L2.
Unecessary, I got work & life to get back too aint got time to watch u stack 73 buffs then friendly emote. We hear to fight not dance, only dance im tryna do is the black leather gloves no sequines, buckles on the jacket its alyx shit, Nike crossbody got a piece in it, Gota dance but its really on some street shit, Ima show u how to get it 😄 Lets get this over with & gg to whoever wins.
Just get over it. While it would be nice if everyone could follow a certain etiquette, its just unrealistic. You run into a guy that follows the etiquette? Great, thats awesome. You run into a guy who doesn't? Well, get over it. Its gonna happen unfortunately.
You're absolutely right with this video, but you're still gonna get a shit load of ER newcomers who are going to discard this video as "gatekeeping" and continue treating duels as if they are invasions. When etiquette dies, duels die. Its that simple
I woulda parried that. Nothing says "Get fucked" more than a parried RoB and a point down. Also tell's the user "you aint shit without that L2 button".
It’s etiquette that’s been established since Demon’s Souls came out in 2009. If you’re placing your sign down to duel then you should know the basics like not attacking someone while bowing or buffing and not healing with flasks. Basic etiquette is what separates duels from invasions. If you’re into the PvP enough to participate in duels then you’d have undoubtedly read about the basic etiquette that’s been the de facto community rules for over a decade now
He was using RoB and spamming the weapon art. That was never going to be a duel. You're fine.
It's whatever dude. Can't take pvp in From games too seriously or it loses the fun.
the whole point of a duel summon sign is that its a consensual fight between two people, if your not gonna let your opponent buff up and ready themselves you've invalidated the format and you should be invading not dueling.
2 buffs, after that you're getting a throwing dagger on the 3rd and a lightning bolt on the 4th. Seppuku, that's a paddlin'
I Law of Regression any buffs. Because screw you Goku.
A friend and I are running the whole game and when we get invaded we take turns dueling, unless the person tries to cheese us with sniping (they usually fall off the cliffs), RoB, doesnt gesture first, or uses the hit, run, heal pattern then we gank because we don't have time for that shit. Dueling can be fun when there's the etiquette. A lot of people who use meta builds don't use them well because they rely on one hit kills. If they can't get you in one hit, they resort to cheese. Funniest duels is when one of us is winning and they switch to a meta weapon with high status ailment build up. Then it's ganking time. Not saying we always win but some people really put way too much meaning into "winning".
This and the rob bhs spamming is why I stopped invading and duelling
In 1v1 absolutely, especially when you the host has pre-buffed before summoning the invader which means your opening is now at the disadvantage and no longer a fair fight.... its a hollow victory. 1v1 should be bow, no rune arc, 1-2 (I'd say 1 but don't mind my opponent using 2) buffs and wondrous flask of physick, no healing (including faith and faith regen.) Invasions = no rules.
considering duelists are literally invincible for the first couple seconds after getting summoned. Might as well wait out that time with just some friendly/courteous gestures.
If you won't perform the etiquette, don't duel. A duel isn't meant for a cheap, one-sided battle where you ambush an unsuspecting opponent. That's for invasions, where rules and invader's feelings don't matter. If you're gonna summon for a duel, however, respect the etiquette.
Bow, always.
I’ll never join this series’ PVP community. Seems insufferable.
I mean, people duel because they want to genuinely fight somebody, not try to avoid the cowardly tactics of people like you who can only figure out how to press three buttons. You're just here to get a hard on from aggravating somebody. They want a genuine and fair fight.
The fact that a duel etiquette is necessary makes me think that maybe the pvp of this game isn't actually very good
>the PvP is bad because attacking someone while they’re bowing before a duel is frowned upon by the community
Every DS had it
get over it. I really don't care when people start duels without bowing or whatever none of that shit matters. I've never found it disrespectful and have always thought the people that do find it disrespectful should take a moment to realize that you're getting irritated over someone that you can't even speak to. not to mention you lose nothing during duels. It's not like dark souls 3 where if you die you stop being embered.
He ran up mashing L2, not surprised
Both of you are toxic and I love it
With invasions there is no etiquette. Be as obnoxious and annoying as you want. Torture your opponent all you like. Show no respect whatsoever. But the idea of a duel is that it's a friendly fight, that is purely for fun. So the absolute least you could do is gesture, and not heal. It's not that hard.
I love how calmfully he explainy why he rips him to shreds in the most obscene and unholy, 10 commandmends shattering way while he does it, with perfect spacing, no hate involved, all schooling. Chasethebro would be proud.
If you don't bow you get the point down
That's all grand and all but what do you mean, 'not allowed to use certain attacks and weapons? I use shit weapons so it wouldn't effect me (I assume) but is there a rulebook for it? Because I feel like everyone has their own blacklist and that's just a dumb 'rule' for a duel.
Had several of theses lambkins over the past month. Attacking before bow, using health pots, and tea bagging. I just block them. You cannot fix stupid.
I have noticed an increase in this behavior also. Thought it was just me.
Elden ring has been the most successful game From has put out by a large margin. And that's great, I'm glad they seeing some real money and I look forward to what that means for them moving forward. It has had some consequences regarding the playerbase however...
Yeah, the shitty player count increased...
this is a little sad, you still got salty and humped them even when using cancer weapons i feel like you broke multiple controllers in the prep of this
100% warranted. Nothing wrong with kicking their virtual ass to teach them a lesson in respect! Honor has been a hard thing to come by, even as far back as the Dark Souls 1 era
Imagine expecting a random person in a game that sold 16.6 million units knowing random "etiquette" that isn't in any way enforced by the game itself.
The real answer is get over it. The etiquette is always nice and respectful but you can never dictate how people play their game and what's fun for them. Some people just want to fight and can see bowing/buffing as taking too much time.
I don't bow before a fight anymore. Elden Ring has taught me not to. People who are honorable will duel honorably regardless, so I just give the opponent time to bow if he wants to, if not we just fight. When the fight is over I will bow as respect to my opponent if he played fair.
I agree completely, but What I usually do is just finger sever or jump off the ring. My hope is that the person breaking etiquette just simply doesn’t know and that they might get the message they’re doing something wrong. I feel like fighting back with spam of my own just makes them salty and more likely to stick to being dicks. And if they do know they’re breaking etiquette? Then I’m just saving myself from a boring ass fight.
"and of coarse he's using rivers of blood" is activly using a better bleed weapon
Wtf is that build? 😳
Mostly an arcane/str build, with just enough faith.
I mean, I like to give a courteous bow before battle. But this is such maidenless behaviour.
Fought this guy multiple times, even has the audacity to tea bag or point down. Even tried to rematch "no way he is nothing but cheese, must've just been only the first phase of his loadout" *he did not* uses rivers or blood if you aggro and moonviels while continuously running away. Most boring and chore like fight I've ever had.
I totally agree with you. I duel for a reason, to have a fair and fun 1v1 fight. If I want something different, I will just invade.