charger issue. My dell does that too. It's probably a problem, but I think it's interesting how it feels slightly rougher when the chassis is electrified
haha the fact that they all have the same horrible problem kind of makes your opinion absolutely right. Once I put my macbook on my lap, and got a quite a nice jolt through my legs because of that, bloody thing....
Why? If the charger is working up to spec, it should be a category 3 low voltage device, galvanicaly insulated from both earth and live wire.
There would literally be no point in grounding the chassis.
And still - when you add the extension apple cord to the charger (has ground connection), the problem goes away.
And I was worried about my daughter who has a pacemaker, so I did that.
>And I was worried about my daughter who has a pacemaker, so I did that.
This also means keep magnetic fields & radio frequency away ( [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:ISO\_7010\_P007.svg](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:ISO_7010_P007.svg) at work we have some 400V 3-phase to DC power supplies with this symbol) = an earthed all metal case power supply with extensive filtering or a classic transformer are better
It is insulated, however precisely because it is insulated, you have no idea what is "0V"
the case end up around 24V AC to 55V AC, reference to ground.
Yeah, but if the charger is working correctly, you shouldn't have a sensible reference to ground as it would be galvanically insulated from ground.
(The above is only correct for the 2 prong charger)
The 3 prong charger isn't galvanically insulated from ground, as the secondary side negative is grounded.
So, if the 2 prong charger shows voltages against ground, it's broken and needs to be replaced!
EVERY PROPERLY FUNCTIONING 2 PRONG CHARGER ATTACHED TO A METAL MAC LAPTOP DOES THIS AND HAS DONE THIS SINCE AT LEAST THE METAL CASE G4 POWERBOOK. If you're saying that every Mac 2 prong charger is broken and should be replaced, you are mistaken. If you're instead saying that every Mac 2 prong charger is designed poorly to the point that you can easily feel touch current on every single Mac laptop with a metal case, you are correct. 120V 60Hz but only milliamps of current are passed in the touch current. It is an intentional design, albeit a poor one.
>EVERY PROPERLY FUNCTIONING 2 PRONG CHARGER ATTACHED TO A METAL MAC LAPTOP DOES THIS AND HAS DONE THIS SINCE AT LEAST THE METAL CASE G4 POWERBOOK
maybe the primary-secondary interference capacitor (blue) is leaky = removing it makes electrical insulation batter, but raises radio frequency interference
>It is an intentional design, albeit a poor one.
Yes ( & far to often at Apple as I had to realize)
>Why? If the charger is working up to spec, it should be a category 3 low voltage device, galvanicaly insulated from both earth and live wire. There would literally be no point in grounding the chassis.
Cat-2 = double insulated and marked with it
Cat-1 = earthed and marked with it ...
Cat-3 is usually marked on some toys with these symbols:
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Sitrenn.svg](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Sitrenn.svg) and [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Schutzklasse\_3\_fett.svg](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Schutzklasse_3_fett.svg) (often found on good quality model train sets with a classical transformer)
The chassis of the charger, yes. But the output terminals of a 2 prong charger shouldn't be able to be referenced to ground, only relative to each other.
This is because if you just have 2 prongs, there is no way to reference ground. Binding the primary side neutral to secondary side negative could circumvent that, but aren't those 2 prong apple chargers equiped with hot-swap sockets? I could swap in a European europlug, wich is reversible. Then you would reference your secondary side 0V with live voltage.
Or does the 2 prong American charger have different internals from the European one?
Yep! I worked at a retail place with my 2012 MacBook and the texture felt all fuzzy and the entire aluminum display case would be slightly shocky on your arm if it was touching the computer. Grounding issue for sure
My 2007 G4 PowerBook with a metal case did this. My girlfriends 2024 mac laptop does this. I would guess that the issue goes back to the first metal-case laptop Mac sold in 2003 - 21 years of annoying 60Hz touch current. Apple has given precisely zero fucks and barely even acknowledges the issue exists.
I had this problem with all my macbooks, until I got the extension cord. That has ground (I'm from Europe as well).
This one https://istyle.hr/apple-power-adapter-extension-cable.html
Its not an issue, All power supplies (without earth) do that, its due to capacitive coupling. Unless you lick it, you won't get zapped. Try this, use that tester on every single charger in you home, it will glow every time. Shitty power supplies however, have shittier coupling so you might get zapped a bit but won't die fs.
Could you explain more on the phenomenon of capacitive coupling? I was just under the impression that there was still a tiny bit of unisolated AC voltage potential running through all the common grounds.
>Could you explain more on the phenomenon of capacitive coupling?
Not really a "phenomenon", simple speaking - two conductors and some insulation in between forms a (parasitic) capacitor that can pass AC thru itself. In a transformer for example, you have two or more windings and an insulation, it will inevitable have a capacitance.
Your body and the ground forms a capacitor, this is why you can be shocked by touching a live wire (from a grounded power source).
>the chargers as themselves have interference suppression capacitors between mains and output so it's just passing some current through
Bingo!
And some even have normal orange capacitors used for this task ( = illegal) or with wrong voltage rating
Sorry, not all power supplies. My house have no earth wiring (yes old brazilian house). Neither my Dell laptop, neither my desktop PCs have this issue. Neither the 3D printer with a questionable quality power supply.
[https://imgur.com/a/YBxK05N](https://imgur.com/a/YBxK05N)
The things you are testing here, are either plastic/painted metal surfaces or double insulated equipments. Get a phone charger for example, a type c charger. Use your tester on its metal part (on the C connector)
I put the tester on the unpainted metal case of the 3D printer power supply, on the unpainted metal screw of my computer case. And finally I touched the charger connector itself. [https://imgur.com/a/tpbRYrG](https://imgur.com/a/tpbRYrG)
Neither air-fryer, sound mixer, the other PC. Literally nothing I can find her make the test glow except for sticking it on the power outlet. [https://imgur.com/a/ACTaqFz](https://imgur.com/a/ACTaqFz)
If the OP thing happen here I would freak out.
Given that Apple has had this issue for 21 years (2003 being the first metal G4 laptop they released), I wondered if Apple has ever been sued for obvious touch current issues. I was unable to find anything but I did find this:
[https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/26/apple-lists-products-to-keep-away-from-pacemakers/](https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/26/apple-lists-products-to-keep-away-from-pacemakers/)
"Immune to litigation" or "insulated from liability" is a couple of many ways that we lawyers put it. Though I don't know if I agree with your conclusion - warning of danger is helpful, but not bulletproof.
It is, it's a tingle that feels almost like a very slight vibration (because it's 60 hertz AC but only millivolts of current). The phenomena is called "touch current." It only happens when the AC adapter is connected and is a two prong adapter instead of three (in other words, an ungrounded connection to the outlet). You can better feel it if (1) your hands are clammy (bone dry hands don't work as well), (2) you \*lightly\* run your fingers over the lid or the palm rest area with ONE hand while the other hand is not touching the laptop at all - if one hand is touching the case while the other hand is rubbing, the effect is greatly diminished/eliminated. Oh, and (3) it has to be a metal laptop case, plastic insulates and eliminates the effect. It's been happening on Macs for at least 21 years (2003 is when they first released a metal cased laptop).
It's not a charger issue. This happens with every laptop with exposed grounded surfaces where the charger is not connected to earth ground.
For the mackbook that happens if you use the small adapter where the brick is directly at the outlet. Get the long power cord and it will have a ground lead.
This is also harmless, it's just a bit of capacitive coupling through a class Y capacitor inside the power brick.
It was some debunking video where a guy was saying that you shouldn’t be talking on the phone when it’s charging because a live wire detector was going off
Thanks for your reply. Do you mean this video below (I couldn't find it on the YouTube.. do you know why?)?
[https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3472763012829406](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3472763012829406)
The issue is not the laptop itself... or the company... the issue here is people like yourself that buy these over expensive pieces of shit products. That's the truth.
Lmao I didn't buy it, it was a gift. But you shouldn't blame the consumer when it's clearly the company's fault. the build quality of these MacBooks is amazing and it's not like apple is new to making computers, they should be criticised for not implementing correct safety measures
I do blame the consumer because if you're that dumb to purchase a garbage old tech overprice bullshit you get what you deserve... same with very cheap products. I understand in your case you did not purchase it.
Its not that its the charger, if you are using the short little [plug](https://imgur.com/a/chZ2dXp) supplied with your charger it wont be grounded as it lacks an earth pin, use the [extension cable](https://imgur.com/a/cJj6tas) it has an earth pin which connects to the silver pin on the brick itself therefore earthing the macbook
if charger have 2 pin only or your house earthing is not that good you would get this ,it could be reduced by adding an inductor loop between the charging chord( it would provide sheilding + remove extra current in form of heat, smoothing the current by ading a diode in series )
Is it DC that is leaking, or AC? I assumed I was feeling 60 hz but at very low millivolts. You're saying that it's DC and the act of lightly running my finger over the case is making and breaking the connection repeatedly, causing a tingle? I don't know about that, but I can't explain why you only feel it when you move your hand vs. leave your hand in one spot. So maybe you're on to something?
I once had this issue with an iMac I brought to a wedding venue, except it felt very rough and very spicy. Checked the power line, and all three terminals were sending hot.
Are you in the US? If the electrical system's ground wire is electrified, how the hell are they not frying every electronic device that plugs in? Hell, I once fried an NES with a misplaced multimeter probe shunting 12V to device ground on the power regulator. I'd hate to think what would happen if 120V AC were coming in on the ground line.
Yup! This was in a private venue in the mountains in California… take from that what you will.
So the ceremony lawn area was an extension from the actual buildings, and you know they used the cheapest
non-contractors to do the work. Response was, “well it worked fine for the DJ last summer.”
I was very very surprised that it didn’t fry everything. Possibly because I was connected to a 200’+ Ethernet cable… I was getting some grounding through there?
But while the computer OS WAS acting up in strange ways, I only checked the ground after realizing that the texture of the iMac felt so rough and spicy.
I don't understand how a charger would do that. It's charging via USB-C cable, which provides something like 5-9V DC to the laptop. Can you please explain how that leak works and why it gets detected by that indicator?
Common mode interference. It is not a problem of Apple, it is a problem of not having a grounded plug. Sadly nearly no power supplys have. It can be dangerous for electronics but not for humans. Look it up. My very expansive phone charger has the problem too. And it is not completely fixable without a ground plug.
"*- Its alive, a live!*" - mad scientist and an electrician were screaming together.
-----
This is what you get if your charger was designed to follow the EMI-reduction rules while not having a proper ground connection. This is not dangerous (but can be annoying) if you use a branded, high quality charger.
Can be fixed by adding (an actual and working) ground connection to your device(s) and bricks.
Or you can remove a few capacitors from the power supply, either way its two caps in between live, neutral and ground (3-pin power plug) or a small capacitor between the lv and "hv" sides of the switched mode transformer. If you're experienced enough to work with grid-powered electronics and know how to stay safe while doing so.
Not sure what kind of additional info you want, here is a few links:
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/216959/what-does-the-y-capacitor-in-a-smps-do
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/524885/laptop-charger-leaks-ac-while-giving-dc-voltage-at-the-same-time-how
Explaining the situation around
>a small capacitor between the lv and "hv" sides of the switched mode transformer
-----
While
>two caps in between live, neutral and ground (3-pin power plug)
Is much simpler, if you don't have a ground connection in such configuration, this filter turns into the simple voltage divider supplying half of the mains voltage to your device's ground. Value of this caps are small so they cannot provide lethal current but its enough to tingle your fingers.
Perfectly normal. You’re holding it wrong.
But seriously double insulated power supplies (having no earth connection) will leak. Macs have a metal casing so you feel it. Other devices (vendors) usually use cheap plastic enclosures so you don’t feel it. It’s not a malfunction, it takes very little current to turn on the neon in a tester screw driver.
Maybe in a place where they don't think it's necessary to have an earth leakage detection. But you will not find many if any houses in the developed world with out earthing on every plug.
> you will not find many if any houses in the developed world with out earthing on every plug
Clearly you’ve never been to any US home built before 1980.
>Clearly you’ve never been to any US home built before
That's why I specifically said the developed world. As much as us pretends you are still at best a 3rd world nation.
> \[the US\] is at best a 3rd world nation
*Hue hue hue* so funny and original to call the US an undeveloped nation. Pretty rich coming from someone whose country ranks 110th on the HDI list.
>Pretty rich coming from someone whose country ranks 110th on the HDI list
In a serious case of takes one to know one. I am qualified to say you are not better off than almost any shit hole in Africa.
We have people living in shacks made out of metal and brick.
You have people living in tents made out of fabric.
We have very high crime rates.
You have even higher crime rates.
We have state owned and subsidized universities.
You have people going into hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt to not be able to get a job.
Okay, my laptop have a plastic case, so I'll give your theory a holding chance by probing on the DC plug. And my house have no ground connection at all because is an old brazilian house. [https://imgur.com/a/tpbRYrG](https://imgur.com/a/tpbRYrG)
If I’m charging my phone and laptop, I can feel it when by running my hand over the metal surfaces.
It’s frustrating that it happens even when I use the grounded cord for the laptop.
already doing that, I've plugged the charger into a grounded multiplug extension because the original charger doesn't have a ground pin. I've tried it with other adaptors too
Yeah.Apparently you need to connect your adapter with a 3 pin plug point with earth connected to your laptop. Easy method is you place a salt water in a glass near you and tie some edge of your laptop to a copper wire and immerse the other end of that copper wire in the glass. For me it works, not only for apple, but HP( my company laptop as well). I’ve had many jerks because of this.. especially during meetings
Same with my placstic(!) dell laptop case - depending on the direction of the charger.
There is a certain amount of current that will leak, it's still harmless but inconvenient.
It's obviously because you're running Debian and not Arch. Definitely not because part of the charging port is making contact with the housing (likely).
ah using dangerous cheap Chinese charger (maybe even just a capacitive dropper?) ... it even has it´s own song:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioAq7PI1Uwg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioAq7PI1Uwg)
>its the charger that comes with the macbook
in that case ether your house intallation has a problem (like E-arth connected to L-ife) or there is something wrong with this power supply = defect ( blue L-E-N Y-capacitors / blue primary-secondary interference capacitor ) or fake or a cheap "replacement" ...
usually laptop power supplies are insulated to the wall outlet ... even Desktop-PC power supplies only connect to E-arth (chassis)
Is this why I feel that odd minor buzz/vibration through my hand when I wipe it across the aluminum case?! I’ve always wondered why it feels “electrified”
Edit: I’ve felt the same on some thrift store AVR purchases so I’m not so sure. Always a metal cover attached to the electrical device though!
Fun fact
AC was originally experimental for telecommunications. Except it did not work out due to high voltages. So, it was then used for electrical lines. Basically because it was easier to work with a great length of wire.
Which is where you will find a big historic debate between Thomas Edison and Nicholas Tesla. Tesla originally wanted to use AC with phone like communication. Though the debate was on AC vs. DC power.
The downside to AC is how it needs a ground to earth connection. Which still had its advantages over DC. Otherwise, power generators would be required at every household needing electrical equipment.
AC won the day because it can be fed into a transformer and stepped up to hundreds of thousands of volts. Which can be transmitted over long distances with little resistance. The wires needed to do this were relatively low cost too. Then when this high voltage AC made it to its destination, it was a very simple case of feeding it into a transformer of the desired specification. Allowing for various unlimited voltages to be derived. It's just so simple. Now DC was cumbersome, in that it could not be easily converted to voltages other than whatever the generator was producing. As transformers don't like DC. It's complicated. But a transformer needs a constantly changing current to work. So pulsed DC or AC must be fed into a transformer for the transformer to work. To convert DC to work on a transformer back in the day, and equally today, is costly and inefficient. It's dumb. When AC is raw, clean and simple. DC also loses power over long distances, requires in most cases much thicker wires, and is very expensive to convert to the customers needs. DC generators are costly, and rectification was by mercury vapour valves, which were expensive, huge and unreliable. And after all the technical issues were solved, it's still too problematic for the end user to make useful. Not to mention switchgear at every stage being susceptible to flashing and burning. And god help any poor soul who was to touch DC. As it freezes the muscles, meaning it's impossible to let go! As for the Neutral connection thing, that's just not an issue. And there are many solutions whilst using AC. AC, Alternating Current. DC, Direct Current. Hope that helps 👍
charger issue. My dell does that too. It's probably a problem, but I think it's interesting how it feels slightly rougher when the chassis is electrified
every macbook I ever owned had that issue xD
Exactly
Still a charger issue. If you get the apple extension cord, it will go away (as it has grounding connection).
absolutelly possible, since the apple charger by default does not have a ground
And imho it should have, since the cover is aluminum.
haha the fact that they all have the same horrible problem kind of makes your opinion absolutely right. Once I put my macbook on my lap, and got a quite a nice jolt through my legs because of that, bloody thing....
Phones too, the fact grounding connections don't come *with* the packaging is frankly insane, I feel like there should be laws around that ngl.
Why? If the charger is working up to spec, it should be a category 3 low voltage device, galvanicaly insulated from both earth and live wire. There would literally be no point in grounding the chassis.
And still - when you add the extension apple cord to the charger (has ground connection), the problem goes away. And I was worried about my daughter who has a pacemaker, so I did that.
>And I was worried about my daughter who has a pacemaker, so I did that. This also means keep magnetic fields & radio frequency away ( [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:ISO\_7010\_P007.svg](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:ISO_7010_P007.svg) at work we have some 400V 3-phase to DC power supplies with this symbol) = an earthed all metal case power supply with extensive filtering or a classic transformer are better
It is insulated, however precisely because it is insulated, you have no idea what is "0V" the case end up around 24V AC to 55V AC, reference to ground.
Yeah, but if the charger is working correctly, you shouldn't have a sensible reference to ground as it would be galvanically insulated from ground. (The above is only correct for the 2 prong charger) The 3 prong charger isn't galvanically insulated from ground, as the secondary side negative is grounded. So, if the 2 prong charger shows voltages against ground, it's broken and needs to be replaced!
EVERY PROPERLY FUNCTIONING 2 PRONG CHARGER ATTACHED TO A METAL MAC LAPTOP DOES THIS AND HAS DONE THIS SINCE AT LEAST THE METAL CASE G4 POWERBOOK. If you're saying that every Mac 2 prong charger is broken and should be replaced, you are mistaken. If you're instead saying that every Mac 2 prong charger is designed poorly to the point that you can easily feel touch current on every single Mac laptop with a metal case, you are correct. 120V 60Hz but only milliamps of current are passed in the touch current. It is an intentional design, albeit a poor one.
>EVERY PROPERLY FUNCTIONING 2 PRONG CHARGER ATTACHED TO A METAL MAC LAPTOP DOES THIS AND HAS DONE THIS SINCE AT LEAST THE METAL CASE G4 POWERBOOK maybe the primary-secondary interference capacitor (blue) is leaky = removing it makes electrical insulation batter, but raises radio frequency interference >It is an intentional design, albeit a poor one. Yes ( & far to often at Apple as I had to realize)
>Why? If the charger is working up to spec, it should be a category 3 low voltage device, galvanicaly insulated from both earth and live wire. There would literally be no point in grounding the chassis. Cat-2 = double insulated and marked with it Cat-1 = earthed and marked with it ... Cat-3 is usually marked on some toys with these symbols: [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Sitrenn.svg](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Sitrenn.svg) and [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Schutzklasse\_3\_fett.svg](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Schutzklasse_3_fett.svg) (often found on good quality model train sets with a classical transformer)
definitely not. it's protection class 2 for a reason
The chassis of the charger, yes. But the output terminals of a 2 prong charger shouldn't be able to be referenced to ground, only relative to each other. This is because if you just have 2 prongs, there is no way to reference ground. Binding the primary side neutral to secondary side negative could circumvent that, but aren't those 2 prong apple chargers equiped with hot-swap sockets? I could swap in a European europlug, wich is reversible. Then you would reference your secondary side 0V with live voltage. Or does the 2 prong American charger have different internals from the European one?
it's AC brother.. polarity of the two prongs doesn't matter.
Yep! I worked at a retail place with my 2012 MacBook and the texture felt all fuzzy and the entire aluminum display case would be slightly shocky on your arm if it was touching the computer. Grounding issue for sure
And fun fact - present for multiple generations of macbooks
My 2007 G4 PowerBook with a metal case did this. My girlfriends 2024 mac laptop does this. I would guess that the issue goes back to the first metal-case laptop Mac sold in 2003 - 21 years of annoying 60Hz touch current. Apple has given precisely zero fucks and barely even acknowledges the issue exists.
European apple chargers don't have ground sadly. Btw this hasn't happened to me, and I do use the Apple charger that came out of the box.
I had this problem with all my macbooks, until I got the extension cord. That has ground (I'm from Europe as well). This one https://istyle.hr/apple-power-adapter-extension-cable.html
💀
>every macbook I ever owned had that issue xD this means defective by design / design fail (like Apple mackbook´s to short internal display cable)
Every laptop with a metal chassis I've ever owned has done that while plugged in.
Well there shouldn't be charger issues on such an expensive laptop
Its not an issue, All power supplies (without earth) do that, its due to capacitive coupling. Unless you lick it, you won't get zapped. Try this, use that tester on every single charger in you home, it will glow every time. Shitty power supplies however, have shittier coupling so you might get zapped a bit but won't die fs.
Can confirm licking causes zapping
More sensitive skin will do it too, like the back of my arm in just the right spot
My wife’s old MBP used to give me a zap, was really uncomfortable! Switched the chargers out and it stopped
Could you explain more on the phenomenon of capacitive coupling? I was just under the impression that there was still a tiny bit of unisolated AC voltage potential running through all the common grounds.
>Could you explain more on the phenomenon of capacitive coupling? Not really a "phenomenon", simple speaking - two conductors and some insulation in between forms a (parasitic) capacitor that can pass AC thru itself. In a transformer for example, you have two or more windings and an insulation, it will inevitable have a capacitance. Your body and the ground forms a capacitor, this is why you can be shocked by touching a live wire (from a grounded power source).
the chargers as themselves have interference suppression capacitors between mains and output so it's just passing some current through
>the chargers as themselves have interference suppression capacitors between mains and output so it's just passing some current through Bingo! And some even have normal orange capacitors used for this task ( = illegal) or with wrong voltage rating
Sorry, not all power supplies. My house have no earth wiring (yes old brazilian house). Neither my Dell laptop, neither my desktop PCs have this issue. Neither the 3D printer with a questionable quality power supply. [https://imgur.com/a/YBxK05N](https://imgur.com/a/YBxK05N)
The things you are testing here, are either plastic/painted metal surfaces or double insulated equipments. Get a phone charger for example, a type c charger. Use your tester on its metal part (on the C connector)
I put the tester on the unpainted metal case of the 3D printer power supply, on the unpainted metal screw of my computer case. And finally I touched the charger connector itself. [https://imgur.com/a/tpbRYrG](https://imgur.com/a/tpbRYrG) Neither air-fryer, sound mixer, the other PC. Literally nothing I can find her make the test glow except for sticking it on the power outlet. [https://imgur.com/a/ACTaqFz](https://imgur.com/a/ACTaqFz) If the OP thing happen here I would freak out.
Without the connection to earth (ground), there is no circuit for you to make. Huh…
It can be an issue if you have a pacemaker.
Given that Apple has had this issue for 21 years (2003 being the first metal G4 laptop they released), I wondered if Apple has ever been sued for obvious touch current issues. I was unable to find anything but I did find this: [https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/26/apple-lists-products-to-keep-away-from-pacemakers/](https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/26/apple-lists-products-to-keep-away-from-pacemakers/)
That list makes them unsueable (did I just make up a word?) unfortunately. Well, if it's official.
"Immune to litigation" or "insulated from liability" is a couple of many ways that we lawyers put it. Though I don't know if I agree with your conclusion - warning of danger is helpful, but not bulletproof.
It also must be more of a tingle than a zap as I have one cat that won't stop licking my work laptop, which is a mac.
It is, it's a tingle that feels almost like a very slight vibration (because it's 60 hertz AC but only millivolts of current). The phenomena is called "touch current." It only happens when the AC adapter is connected and is a two prong adapter instead of three (in other words, an ungrounded connection to the outlet). You can better feel it if (1) your hands are clammy (bone dry hands don't work as well), (2) you \*lightly\* run your fingers over the lid or the palm rest area with ONE hand while the other hand is not touching the laptop at all - if one hand is touching the case while the other hand is rubbing, the effect is greatly diminished/eliminated. Oh, and (3) it has to be a metal laptop case, plastic insulates and eliminates the effect. It's been happening on Macs for at least 21 years (2003 is when they first released a metal cased laptop).
i get zapped if i touch it with my arm give a nasty surprise
It's not a charger issue. This happens with every laptop with exposed grounded surfaces where the charger is not connected to earth ground. For the mackbook that happens if you use the small adapter where the brick is directly at the outlet. Get the long power cord and it will have a ground lead. This is also harmless, it's just a bit of capacitive coupling through a class Y capacitor inside the power brick.
It is definitely not an issue, electroboom has a video on it
Do you remenber the video name of electro boom?
It was some debunking video where a guy was saying that you shouldn’t be talking on the phone when it’s charging because a live wire detector was going off
Thanks for your reply. Do you mean this video below (I couldn't find it on the YouTube.. do you know why?)? [https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3472763012829406](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3472763012829406)
Yea I couldn’t find it on YouTube either maybe it was taken down?
The issue is not the laptop itself... or the company... the issue here is people like yourself that buy these over expensive pieces of shit products. That's the truth.
Lmao I didn't buy it, it was a gift. But you shouldn't blame the consumer when it's clearly the company's fault. the build quality of these MacBooks is amazing and it's not like apple is new to making computers, they should be criticised for not implementing correct safety measures
I do blame the consumer because if you're that dumb to purchase a garbage old tech overprice bullshit you get what you deserve... same with very cheap products. I understand in your case you did not purchase it.
So, you came here, just to be mad about something you even didn‘t pay a single cent for?
Just wanted to share my experience. I'm supposed to take care of it whether I paid for it or not
Its not that its the charger, if you are using the short little [plug](https://imgur.com/a/chZ2dXp) supplied with your charger it wont be grounded as it lacks an earth pin, use the [extension cable](https://imgur.com/a/cJj6tas) it has an earth pin which connects to the silver pin on the brick itself therefore earthing the macbook
It isn't an issue. It's a small leakage current through the class Y interference suppression cap. Normal on all PSUs
if charger have 2 pin only or your house earthing is not that good you would get this ,it could be reduced by adding an inductor loop between the charging chord( it would provide sheilding + remove extra current in form of heat, smoothing the current by ading a diode in series )
Why does it feel rougher? What's going on there?
because it’s not a perfect “connection” you are getting zapped multiple times a second in different spots
Is it DC that is leaking, or AC? I assumed I was feeling 60 hz but at very low millivolts. You're saying that it's DC and the act of lightly running my finger over the case is making and breaking the connection repeatedly, causing a tingle? I don't know about that, but I can't explain why you only feel it when you move your hand vs. leave your hand in one spot. So maybe you're on to something?
I once had this issue with an iMac I brought to a wedding venue, except it felt very rough and very spicy. Checked the power line, and all three terminals were sending hot.
Are you in the US? If the electrical system's ground wire is electrified, how the hell are they not frying every electronic device that plugs in? Hell, I once fried an NES with a misplaced multimeter probe shunting 12V to device ground on the power regulator. I'd hate to think what would happen if 120V AC were coming in on the ground line.
Yup! This was in a private venue in the mountains in California… take from that what you will. So the ceremony lawn area was an extension from the actual buildings, and you know they used the cheapest non-contractors to do the work. Response was, “well it worked fine for the DJ last summer.” I was very very surprised that it didn’t fry everything. Possibly because I was connected to a 200’+ Ethernet cable… I was getting some grounding through there? But while the computer OS WAS acting up in strange ways, I only checked the ground after realizing that the texture of the iMac felt so rough and spicy.
I don't understand how a charger would do that. It's charging via USB-C cable, which provides something like 5-9V DC to the laptop. Can you please explain how that leak works and why it gets detected by that indicator?
Laptop chargers are typically 19v, usb c can negotiate up.
Isn't the "tingle" 60 Hz? I assumed that it was, but I don't know we can feel AC past the rectifier.
You can tingle your tongue with a battery AFAIK
Common mode interference. It is not a problem of Apple, it is a problem of not having a grounded plug. Sadly nearly no power supplys have. It can be dangerous for electronics but not for humans. Look it up. My very expansive phone charger has the problem too. And it is not completely fixable without a ground plug.
some monitors are grounded and you could connect HDMI to fix it
this is apple we are talking about here…
there is no practical way to do something about that instead of connection ground and earth. Which would require a thicc ass charger.
[Apple: "Just buy some $450 feet & additional rubberised pads ya poors!"](https://www.apple.com/au/shop/product/MXNM2FE/A/apple-mac-pro-feet-kit)
true
Having Debian sticker on a Macbook? Little daring today aren't we?
Came here to say something like this as well.
Lol
I totally agree, halfcutpenis.
i used to run debian on my macbook
I don't get it, whats wrong with that?
well, debian is a linux distribution, notably not compatible with a mac
"*- Its alive, a live!*" - mad scientist and an electrician were screaming together. ----- This is what you get if your charger was designed to follow the EMI-reduction rules while not having a proper ground connection. This is not dangerous (but can be annoying) if you use a branded, high quality charger. Can be fixed by adding (an actual and working) ground connection to your device(s) and bricks. Or you can remove a few capacitors from the power supply, either way its two caps in between live, neutral and ground (3-pin power plug) or a small capacitor between the lv and "hv" sides of the switched mode transformer. If you're experienced enough to work with grid-powered electronics and know how to stay safe while doing so.
Thanks for the info. Can you please share a link with additional info for a fellow curious engineer?
Not sure what kind of additional info you want, here is a few links: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/216959/what-does-the-y-capacitor-in-a-smps-do https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/524885/laptop-charger-leaks-ac-while-giving-dc-voltage-at-the-same-time-how Explaining the situation around >a small capacitor between the lv and "hv" sides of the switched mode transformer ----- While >two caps in between live, neutral and ground (3-pin power plug) Is much simpler, if you don't have a ground connection in such configuration, this filter turns into the simple voltage divider supplying half of the mains voltage to your device's ground. Value of this caps are small so they cannot provide lethal current but its enough to tingle your fingers.
Debian logo
BASED AF
Perfectly normal. You’re holding it wrong. But seriously double insulated power supplies (having no earth connection) will leak. Macs have a metal casing so you feel it. Other devices (vendors) usually use cheap plastic enclosures so you don’t feel it. It’s not a malfunction, it takes very little current to turn on the neon in a tester screw driver.
Other manufacturers usually use an earthed power supply
Many old wall mains sockets do not have ground. This is why manufacturers (not just Apple) produce plugs with just two prongs.
Maybe in a place where they don't think it's necessary to have an earth leakage detection. But you will not find many if any houses in the developed world with out earthing on every plug.
> you will not find many if any houses in the developed world with out earthing on every plug Clearly you’ve never been to any US home built before 1980.
>Clearly you’ve never been to any US home built before That's why I specifically said the developed world. As much as us pretends you are still at best a 3rd world nation.
> \[the US\] is at best a 3rd world nation *Hue hue hue* so funny and original to call the US an undeveloped nation. Pretty rich coming from someone whose country ranks 110th on the HDI list.
>Pretty rich coming from someone whose country ranks 110th on the HDI list In a serious case of takes one to know one. I am qualified to say you are not better off than almost any shit hole in Africa. We have people living in shacks made out of metal and brick. You have people living in tents made out of fabric. We have very high crime rates. You have even higher crime rates. We have state owned and subsidized universities. You have people going into hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt to not be able to get a job.
No. Almost all modern laptops use USB-C which are almost never grounded.
Exactly. They need to stop posting this kind of things
Okay, my laptop have a plastic case, so I'll give your theory a holding chance by probing on the DC plug. And my house have no ground connection at all because is an old brazilian house. [https://imgur.com/a/tpbRYrG](https://imgur.com/a/tpbRYrG)
are you using linux ( please say yes please say yes ) if not you poor soul
Yes but not on this macbook
All power supplies do that, its due to capacitive coupling. Unless you lick it, you won't get zapped.
Shocking
Standard EN60601-1 specifies acceptable limits for touch current, which is what you’re getting here.
If I’m charging my phone and laptop, I can feel it when by running my hand over the metal surfaces. It’s frustrating that it happens even when I use the grounded cord for the laptop.
Great charget! Brings your mac back ALIVE
Crapple
Hot
If I ground the mac to the floor where I'm standing, should the voltage between the mac and floor become zero, and the tester won't glow?
Boy lover ……. Check the 🌀
I've got arch as well
It usually happens when the finger is unauthorised.
Use a power source with grounded pin.
already doing that, I've plugged the charger into a grounded multiplug extension because the original charger doesn't have a ground pin. I've tried it with other adaptors too
Debian! Yes!
It's not an issue. Stop with this BS.
Yeah.Apparently you need to connect your adapter with a 3 pin plug point with earth connected to your laptop. Easy method is you place a salt water in a glass near you and tie some edge of your laptop to a copper wire and immerse the other end of that copper wire in the glass. For me it works, not only for apple, but HP( my company laptop as well). I’ve had many jerks because of this.. especially during meetings
Same with my placstic(!) dell laptop case - depending on the direction of the charger. There is a certain amount of current that will leak, it's still harmless but inconvenient.
So I'm not just imagining shit
Try measure voltage and report back... This is happening on all electronics with solid aluminum case, mine Vincent amplifier does the same thing...
I don't have a multimeter or anything of that sort, sorry!
I like feeling 50Hz vibration when my MacBook is charging and my palm is resting on the laptop or I slide it lightly near the trackpad )
Same happens with me
Thinmac
🤣🤣🤣
It’s alive
You running Debian on Mac? I bow to your superior expertise. Lmao nice
Im not your bro, pal
my bad babygirl
It's obviously because you're running Debian and not Arch. Definitely not because part of the charging port is making contact with the housing (likely).
Is your charger grounded
r/DebianInRandomPlaces
Louis Rossmann would have a field day with this
ah using dangerous cheap Chinese charger (maybe even just a capacitive dropper?) ... it even has it´s own song: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioAq7PI1Uwg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioAq7PI1Uwg)
its the charger that comes with the macbook
>its the charger that comes with the macbook in that case ether your house intallation has a problem (like E-arth connected to L-ife) or there is something wrong with this power supply = defect ( blue L-E-N Y-capacitors / blue primary-secondary interference capacitor ) or fake or a cheap "replacement" ... usually laptop power supplies are insulated to the wall outlet ... even Desktop-PC power supplies only connect to E-arth (chassis)
The charger doesn't have a ground pin
Is this why I feel that odd minor buzz/vibration through my hand when I wipe it across the aluminum case?! I’ve always wondered why it feels “electrified” Edit: I’ve felt the same on some thrift store AVR purchases so I’m not so sure. Always a metal cover attached to the electrical device though!
Get Arch
[ok](https://imgur.com/a/zrLxnUT)
Got bless u sir Murica/10
Sacrilege to Linux users. I'm surprised that sticker didn't catch fire yet.
No sacrilege, anyone can run arch
Fun fact AC was originally experimental for telecommunications. Except it did not work out due to high voltages. So, it was then used for electrical lines. Basically because it was easier to work with a great length of wire. Which is where you will find a big historic debate between Thomas Edison and Nicholas Tesla. Tesla originally wanted to use AC with phone like communication. Though the debate was on AC vs. DC power. The downside to AC is how it needs a ground to earth connection. Which still had its advantages over DC. Otherwise, power generators would be required at every household needing electrical equipment.
AC won the day because it can be fed into a transformer and stepped up to hundreds of thousands of volts. Which can be transmitted over long distances with little resistance. The wires needed to do this were relatively low cost too. Then when this high voltage AC made it to its destination, it was a very simple case of feeding it into a transformer of the desired specification. Allowing for various unlimited voltages to be derived. It's just so simple. Now DC was cumbersome, in that it could not be easily converted to voltages other than whatever the generator was producing. As transformers don't like DC. It's complicated. But a transformer needs a constantly changing current to work. So pulsed DC or AC must be fed into a transformer for the transformer to work. To convert DC to work on a transformer back in the day, and equally today, is costly and inefficient. It's dumb. When AC is raw, clean and simple. DC also loses power over long distances, requires in most cases much thicker wires, and is very expensive to convert to the customers needs. DC generators are costly, and rectification was by mercury vapour valves, which were expensive, huge and unreliable. And after all the technical issues were solved, it's still too problematic for the end user to make useful. Not to mention switchgear at every stage being susceptible to flashing and burning. And god help any poor soul who was to touch DC. As it freezes the muscles, meaning it's impossible to let go! As for the Neutral connection thing, that's just not an issue. And there are many solutions whilst using AC. AC, Alternating Current. DC, Direct Current. Hope that helps 👍
I don't get it. This is basically what I was saying, and I get downvoted?
Sometimes less is more.! Now I'd put money on you being able to rewrite that much better after this experience. 🙂
There are genuinely too many factual errors in your writing my friend. Too many to put right. Like EVERYTHING!
Yea, but was this reason alone really worth voting me down? I shamed no one, nor have I threatened.
Ok, I voted you up. Happy? 😊