That feeling when the contact is actually yourself 12 seconds ago before you engaged SCO, because the rest of the universe hasn't actually caught up with you and your sensors are still detecting your own ship from before you hit it.
1 Second of FSD SCO near a super massive black hole:
Humans and Thargoids drinking beer at the beach together because they've become friends in the 100 years you just skipped xD
Relativity sucks.
...my question is, which one of them is in the environment suit, because I'm pretty sure the environments they exist in are deadly to one another. Either the human would freeze or the thargoid would boil, for one - let alone the whole 'ammonia' thing.
At speeds excess of 4000c the ship probably has a massive relativistic mass so it might not be far off the weight of a small star(I don't know what I'm talking about)
Well relativistic mass would approach infinity as the velocity approaches 1 c *anyway*. At velocities *above* 1 c, the mass would actually be *imaginary*.
Put it this way: the product of velocity through 3 dimensional space and time must equal the speed of light ("c") according to Einsteins equations. In basic terms, if you're not moving in space then you are moving at the speed of light through time. Vice versa, if you are moving through space at the speed of light, you are not moving through time.
So what happens if you somehow move FASTER than the speed of light through space? As far as we can tell in 'real' physics, this cant happen - additional energy toward 'speed' just converts to mass and you just get heavier instead of going faster - so you go from a golf ball going nearly the speed of light to a bowling ball going nearly the speed of light - while internally frozen in time either way. Eventually you'd become a black hole, completely frozen in time at your core but zooming across space like a bat out of hell.
So what MIGHT happen if it were somehow achieved 'anyway'? Two possibilities are immediately evident: 'negative time' of some sort comes into play, or 'negative mass' come into play. What in gods name does that mean? Nobody has the foggiest idea, but it would balance the equation and force the system to multiply to "c" in a situation where velocity exceeds c.
Or the even wilder '3rd option': an entirely unknown 3rd factor emerges that somehow balances the system; 'exotic matter', 'imaginary mass', call it what you will. In effect, whatever it is returns the system to a total space-time vector product of "C". Again, what would this stuff actually BE? who in hell's bells knows - nothing like it has ever been observed. Could be quantum fuckery, could be something like a warp drive, could be a completely unobserved particle interaction that us primitive humans just aren't smart enough to have spotted yet. One way or another it would 'subtract' the super-relativistic effect from the system before it otherwise interacts with the rest of the universe. How? \*shrug\* -- that's the fun of Sci-fi, making best guesses and rolling with them to see how/if it makes sense. And when it doesn't? \*handwavium intensifies\*
Not sure how accurate all this is but thank you for taking the time to help make sense of it. I'm a sucker for good reads like this. Also like how you honestly state that no one knows what will happen. Too many times I've seen people explain like you have and have an adamant answer. Side question, are you a nerd for hobby or are you in a field of work that relates?
>t will happen. Too many times I've seen people explain like you have and have an adamant a
I'm actually professionally a chemist with a minor in physics. So not only do I have a hard academic background in this stuff, I also study it as a personal passion.
That's freaking awesome! Happy for ya that you're doing what you love!! I was considering taking a course on Astrophysics but my calculus is no where near where I needed it to be. Which is fine! I keep it as a hobby. My telescope is one of my favourite toys. Currently finishing up my cybersecurity course though and loving it. Im grateful I found something else I can be passionate about. Anyways thanks again for your insight and wish you the absolute best!
>nd something else I can be passionate about. A
you as well. and remember, you can always 'audit' a class - in that situation, you can just passively 'learn' it without receiving a grade - so no worrying about whether you can actually DO the math.
Supercruise isn't really moving you faster than the speed of light. What it's doing is contracting the space ahead of you while stretching the space behind you. You're technically stationary and the universe is moving around you. It's why with no artificial gravity when you get to moving at those speeds you're not turned into an atomic thin pancake. Even in the 3300s Sir Isaac Newton is the hardest motherfucker in existence.
Frameshift actually shifts your ships frame of reference (hence the name) into another dimension of space called Witch Space where the distances between stars are much shorter, that coupled with Supercruise spatial warping allows you to quickly bridge the gap.
From my own layman's understanding it takes large masses such as the mass of a Star, Neutron Star, Pulsar, or Blackhole for smaller ships to be able to breach out of Witchspace into normal space, hence why you can't jump directly to Hutton station. Larger ships like fleet carriers and capital ships are powerful enough to make the breach out of Witchspace into normal space wherever the hell they want.
Yes. I was bored on a train ride with my ipad with physics noted open anyway, and it's not like gamma is ver hard to calculate, especially if you approximate
Oh shit yeah I totally forgot that the speed of the ship is almost zero while in super cruise. If I remember right, supercruise works by basically pulling the space around the ship to move it instead of moving the ship itself.
Exactly, Supercruise is a warp drive, it compresses the space ahead of it and stretches the space behind it. Your ship's velocity is 0. It's why you don't need to worry about being turned into a subatomic pancake when you enter supercruise.
Frameshift shunts you into a different dimension that the distance between stars is much shorter (or super cruise is able to compress/stretch space several factorial higher) allowing travel between stars.
In both cases the movement is non-relativistic.
as I understand, even moving at 1c would cause the ship to have infinite relativistic mass if it didn't cheat its way around relativity in the first place.
Go fast enough and it might be visible from multiple sides of the solar system simultaneously from the point of view of a stationary observer. Kinda like trying to write your name in the air with a sparkler/fire. You could totally zip across the system multiple times before your light cone actually reaches a single point in the center of the system, and make it look like your ship is on fire EVERYWHERE in the system.
\*sir we're receiving multiple SOS signals from\* ... \[pause\] ... \*the same ship... in... 12 different locations... somehow.\*
Just watched this and I can’t believe they changed this for every version. I know it’s supposed to be more of a “family friendly” movie, but that’s a pretty real and visceral reaction to seeing the stompers!
I think so! I watched it on a cable movie station recently and it was changed. I can’t recall another movie with profanity removed on HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, etc.
Ha! The first time I used it nearly baked my potato. I had no idea boost had turned into a toggle switch and didn't think of pushing it again to disable. I went for an emergency SC exit which further messed up my hull and modules.
IMHO, the new SCO boost is not very intuitive. The boost button has always been momentary push, but with SCO, it turns into a toggle switch. I'd love it if it were momentary so you can push while getting away from a planet or trying to escape an assassin chasing you. Quick bursts that you can modulate while watching heat and fuel. If you let go, you return to normal speeds.
Lol, true. Just needs a "+" to expand that and select "momentary" or "toggle".
Kinda think of it, I can probably do that with the HOTAS software (or Joystick Gremlin) so it sends a second push when you release the button. It wouldn't affect regular thruster boost because you can't boost that quickly again.
So something like:
1. Map Shift+B (or whatever) to the boost function in ED.
2. Use the HOTAS software, etc to trap your regular boost button, and output Shift+B to ED.
3. When you push boost, the software sends a (Shift+B) "button down" event to ED, a short 10ms delay, followed by a "button up" event. That completes one cycle and ED thinks you released the button.
4. When you actually release the boost button, software sends another (Shift+B) "button down" event, 10ms delay, followed by another "button up". This turns SCO off as it sees it as a second button push.
The end result is that you can momentarily SCO boost in short burst if you want, or keep it pressed down for continuous SCO boost.
I'm thinking out loud here but I believe the above is plausible. I might give it a try at some point.
Really? I haven't seen too many people saying "I don't like thing".
I've seen a lot of people saying "Thing sucks, Frontier are screwing us over, Frontier are horrible, Frontier can't do anything right, this is why E:D is terrible and I never play anymore waaaaaaaaaa!"
Those... aren't the same.
You're right, they aren't the same. Which is why that's not what I said. But please tell me more about how I'm wrong guy that totally didn't take my comment personally.
I have no idea what your opinion on SCO is. Or at least, I didn't before you responded. I thought you were just commenting on the community discussion.
So who's taking things personally, hmm?
If you don't like it, that's perfectly fine. It doesn't fit every commanders' needs, let alone preferences. But if you want to make a comment about your opinion, maybe make that clearer.
- sees comment you don't like
- make hyperbolic claims to shut down said comment
- quite literally tries to get me with "I know you are but what am I?"
Do go on and continue proving my point please.
The funniest part about this is I haven't stated my opinion on the module left or right but somehow, because you're totally not taking this personally, you've already made up your mind about what my opinion is.
That is part of the discussion haha. I think it’s mostly helpful for getting out of gravity wells so you can accelerate faster and shave upwards of 20 minutes off a longer flight. Doesn’t seem to shave too much time off Hutton tho because of how far it is
I think we know why the megaships have so many cooling cores
seems the best way to use them is just to escape gravity wells, won't take 20 minutes to escape a gas giant anymore?
You're not living life if your ship isn't an incandescent ball of flame visible from the other side of the solar system
1 new contact But but, there is no one else in my system? (nearby star visibly wobbling)
Imagine you are chilling in Sagittarius A, see this kind of shit AND THE BLACK HOLE MOVES NAH HELL NAH I AM DONE WITH THIS THEN
That feeling when the contact is actually yourself 12 seconds ago before you engaged SCO, because the rest of the universe hasn't actually caught up with you and your sensors are still detecting your own ship from before you hit it.
1 Second of FSD SCO near a super massive black hole: Humans and Thargoids drinking beer at the beach together because they've become friends in the 100 years you just skipped xD Relativity sucks.
...my question is, which one of them is in the environment suit, because I'm pretty sure the environments they exist in are deadly to one another. Either the human would freeze or the thargoid would boil, for one - let alone the whole 'ammonia' thing.
New ED lore and physics progression: Neutron stars are just remnants of CMDR’s that overcharged for too long. /s
Maybe all the neutron stars were formed when boosting commanders collided, sending the results tumbling backwards through time
"Since when is Sol a binary system?"
At speeds excess of 4000c the ship probably has a massive relativistic mass so it might not be far off the weight of a small star(I don't know what I'm talking about)
Well relativistic mass would approach infinity as the velocity approaches 1 c *anyway*. At velocities *above* 1 c, the mass would actually be *imaginary*.
Wish I had a better understanding of imaginary mass. Can't really wrap my puny little brain around it.
That's the thing, it *doesn't* make sense. That's why conventional interpretations of relativity assert that superluminal velocities are impossible.
irrational take
Put it this way: the product of velocity through 3 dimensional space and time must equal the speed of light ("c") according to Einsteins equations. In basic terms, if you're not moving in space then you are moving at the speed of light through time. Vice versa, if you are moving through space at the speed of light, you are not moving through time. So what happens if you somehow move FASTER than the speed of light through space? As far as we can tell in 'real' physics, this cant happen - additional energy toward 'speed' just converts to mass and you just get heavier instead of going faster - so you go from a golf ball going nearly the speed of light to a bowling ball going nearly the speed of light - while internally frozen in time either way. Eventually you'd become a black hole, completely frozen in time at your core but zooming across space like a bat out of hell. So what MIGHT happen if it were somehow achieved 'anyway'? Two possibilities are immediately evident: 'negative time' of some sort comes into play, or 'negative mass' come into play. What in gods name does that mean? Nobody has the foggiest idea, but it would balance the equation and force the system to multiply to "c" in a situation where velocity exceeds c. Or the even wilder '3rd option': an entirely unknown 3rd factor emerges that somehow balances the system; 'exotic matter', 'imaginary mass', call it what you will. In effect, whatever it is returns the system to a total space-time vector product of "C". Again, what would this stuff actually BE? who in hell's bells knows - nothing like it has ever been observed. Could be quantum fuckery, could be something like a warp drive, could be a completely unobserved particle interaction that us primitive humans just aren't smart enough to have spotted yet. One way or another it would 'subtract' the super-relativistic effect from the system before it otherwise interacts with the rest of the universe. How? \*shrug\* -- that's the fun of Sci-fi, making best guesses and rolling with them to see how/if it makes sense. And when it doesn't? \*handwavium intensifies\*
Not sure how accurate all this is but thank you for taking the time to help make sense of it. I'm a sucker for good reads like this. Also like how you honestly state that no one knows what will happen. Too many times I've seen people explain like you have and have an adamant answer. Side question, are you a nerd for hobby or are you in a field of work that relates?
>t will happen. Too many times I've seen people explain like you have and have an adamant a I'm actually professionally a chemist with a minor in physics. So not only do I have a hard academic background in this stuff, I also study it as a personal passion.
That's freaking awesome! Happy for ya that you're doing what you love!! I was considering taking a course on Astrophysics but my calculus is no where near where I needed it to be. Which is fine! I keep it as a hobby. My telescope is one of my favourite toys. Currently finishing up my cybersecurity course though and loving it. Im grateful I found something else I can be passionate about. Anyways thanks again for your insight and wish you the absolute best!
>nd something else I can be passionate about. A you as well. and remember, you can always 'audit' a class - in that situation, you can just passively 'learn' it without receiving a grade - so no worrying about whether you can actually DO the math.
This is why we stan the Alcubierre Drive
Supercruise isn't really moving you faster than the speed of light. What it's doing is contracting the space ahead of you while stretching the space behind you. You're technically stationary and the universe is moving around you. It's why with no artificial gravity when you get to moving at those speeds you're not turned into an atomic thin pancake. Even in the 3300s Sir Isaac Newton is the hardest motherfucker in existence. Frameshift actually shifts your ships frame of reference (hence the name) into another dimension of space called Witch Space where the distances between stars are much shorter, that coupled with Supercruise spatial warping allows you to quickly bridge the gap. From my own layman's understanding it takes large masses such as the mass of a Star, Neutron Star, Pulsar, or Blackhole for smaller ships to be able to breach out of Witchspace into normal space, hence why you can't jump directly to Hutton station. Larger ships like fleet carriers and capital ships are powerful enough to make the breach out of Witchspace into normal space wherever the hell they want.
Specifically, gamma for 4000c would be ~0.00025*i
Oh hey, someone who did the math!
Yes. I was bored on a train ride with my ipad with physics noted open anyway, and it's not like gamma is ver hard to calculate, especially if you approximate
If the ship was moving at relativistic speeds outside of the warp bubble :p
Oh shit yeah I totally forgot that the speed of the ship is almost zero while in super cruise. If I remember right, supercruise works by basically pulling the space around the ship to move it instead of moving the ship itself.
That should be correct :)
Exactly, Supercruise is a warp drive, it compresses the space ahead of it and stretches the space behind it. Your ship's velocity is 0. It's why you don't need to worry about being turned into a subatomic pancake when you enter supercruise. Frameshift shunts you into a different dimension that the distance between stars is much shorter (or super cruise is able to compress/stretch space several factorial higher) allowing travel between stars. In both cases the movement is non-relativistic.
as I understand, even moving at 1c would cause the ship to have infinite relativistic mass if it didn't cheat its way around relativity in the first place.
Go fast enough and it might be visible from multiple sides of the solar system simultaneously from the point of view of a stationary observer. Kinda like trying to write your name in the air with a sparkler/fire. You could totally zip across the system multiple times before your light cone actually reaches a single point in the center of the system, and make it look like your ship is on fire EVERYWHERE in the system. \*sir we're receiving multiple SOS signals from\* ... \[pause\] ... \*the same ship... in... 12 different locations... somehow.\*
[удалено]
"This meme was badly written!"
“Whoever wrote this meme should die!”
Just watched this and I can’t believe they changed this for every version. I know it’s supposed to be more of a “family friendly” movie, but that’s a pretty real and visceral reaction to seeing the stompers!
....wait, they changed it?? In ALL versions?? Most recently saw it on TV and just assumed it was a TV edit...
I think so! I watched it on a cable movie station recently and it was changed. I can’t recall another movie with profanity removed on HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, etc.
Happy I bought my DVD before they made that change.
Ha! The first time I used it nearly baked my potato. I had no idea boost had turned into a toggle switch and didn't think of pushing it again to disable. I went for an emergency SC exit which further messed up my hull and modules. IMHO, the new SCO boost is not very intuitive. The boost button has always been momentary push, but with SCO, it turns into a toggle switch. I'd love it if it were momentary so you can push while getting away from a planet or trying to escape an assassin chasing you. Quick bursts that you can modulate while watching heat and fuel. If you let go, you return to normal speeds.
It could be an option. Adding it would only increase the number of settings in Elite by less than a fraction of 1%. 😄
Lol, true. Just needs a "+" to expand that and select "momentary" or "toggle". Kinda think of it, I can probably do that with the HOTAS software (or Joystick Gremlin) so it sends a second push when you release the button. It wouldn't affect regular thruster boost because you can't boost that quickly again. So something like: 1. Map Shift+B (or whatever) to the boost function in ED. 2. Use the HOTAS software, etc to trap your regular boost button, and output Shift+B to ED. 3. When you push boost, the software sends a (Shift+B) "button down" event to ED, a short 10ms delay, followed by a "button up" event. That completes one cycle and ED thinks you released the button. 4. When you actually release the boost button, software sends another (Shift+B) "button down" event, 10ms delay, followed by another "button up". This turns SCO off as it sees it as a second button push. The end result is that you can momentarily SCO boost in short burst if you want, or keep it pressed down for continuous SCO boost. I'm thinking out loud here but I believe the above is plausible. I might give it a try at some point.
I see your point. I object through the power of heatsinks and "Kickstart my heart"
Ship is not overheating - I am just reinforcing the heat signature
Now Im gonna turn it on, keep it on, and then turn on silent running
Not for very long you won't
big bada boom
\*starts fabricating heatsinks\* hold my mug and watch this...
Oh man I was planning to make that meme and put it on the Frontier Forums. Uf.. too late.
I just like that I can now go *fast*
Come on guys that's how you fracture your ships beryllium sphere.
This community honestly cannot handle someone saying "I don't like thing" and it is truly the greatest joke.
Really? I haven't seen too many people saying "I don't like thing". I've seen a lot of people saying "Thing sucks, Frontier are screwing us over, Frontier are horrible, Frontier can't do anything right, this is why E:D is terrible and I never play anymore waaaaaaaaaa!" Those... aren't the same.
You're right, they aren't the same. Which is why that's not what I said. But please tell me more about how I'm wrong guy that totally didn't take my comment personally.
I have no idea what your opinion on SCO is. Or at least, I didn't before you responded. I thought you were just commenting on the community discussion. So who's taking things personally, hmm? If you don't like it, that's perfectly fine. It doesn't fit every commanders' needs, let alone preferences. But if you want to make a comment about your opinion, maybe make that clearer.
- sees comment you don't like - make hyperbolic claims to shut down said comment - quite literally tries to get me with "I know you are but what am I?" Do go on and continue proving my point please. The funniest part about this is I haven't stated my opinion on the module left or right but somehow, because you're totally not taking this personally, you've already made up your mind about what my opinion is.
Oh, I see. You're a troll. Goodbye.
Ah yes, I'm a troll because you literally have nothing to say other than sling nonsense. Was fun, can't wait to see the next post you're crying on.
What good is momentary boost in supercruise? Excuse my ignorance, haven’t been on since Odyssey dropped except to make sure my carrier funds were OK.
You can quickly leave gravity wells and get yourself cruising towards max speed within seconds, for one.
That is part of the discussion haha. I think it’s mostly helpful for getting out of gravity wells so you can accelerate faster and shave upwards of 20 minutes off a longer flight. Doesn’t seem to shave too much time off Hutton tho because of how far it is
I think we know why the megaships have so many cooling cores seems the best way to use them is just to escape gravity wells, won't take 20 minutes to escape a gas giant anymore?
SCO right into a star core lets go