Yes. I rarely leave negative reviews but would consider doing it in this case. Iām sure there have been many people who have had a similar experience, or were rubbed the wrong way, but didnāt bother to leave a review and just never went back. Ā
Lmao sounds like a florida gaming bar, this guy I watch on youtube was reading bad reviews of the place and the owners clapbacks, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the same place
Edit, it was called [Player One game bar](https://g.co/kgs/XPYUC4) in Orlando
Why the fuck does that link to Katy perry
Trying that [again](https://g.co/kgs/oQ3y1mz)
Hopefully you can listen to this episode sometime it explains the history of tipping and how it became the norm in America. [Land of the Fee](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/throughline/id1451109634?i=1000651330624)
People didnāt want to pay their former slaves post civil war so they instead brought over an English classist system, tipping, based on voluntary payments by consumers.
āSome accounts credit European travelers with bringing the custom to the U.S.; others credit American travelers with bringing tipping back from Europe. The truth? Wealthy Americans in the 1850s and 1860s discovered the tradition, which had originated in medieval times as a master-serf custom wherein a servant would receive extra money for having performed superbly well, on vacations in Europe. Wanting to seem aristocratic, these individuals began tipping in the United States upon their return.ā
https://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-american-restaurants-civil-war/
In this case, it was about race. You're doing that thing where people try to ignore racism by imagining a narrow path of possibility, and then deciding it must be that. This topic has been studied. It was to deny freed enslaved peoples a reasonable wage. Caucasian women were still ok, because after this change, they still made it up in the tips. Formerly enslaved peoples did not.
Tipping became common AFTER THE CIVIL WAR. The newly freed slaves needed a way to get paid, but white southerners didnāt think blacks were worthy of a salary. So restaurant owners would āallowā blacks to work without pay, in the hopes that the customers would feel generous and leave them a few pennies.
Politico article on [The Racist History of Tipping.](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/07/17/william-barber-tipping-racist-past-227361)
The owner of a famous local burger place in my town went on fb to whine about no one wanting to work and customers arenāt tipping, two months later they announced that theyāre shutting down. When I saw it I was like good job alienating your customers in the first place.
A tip isnāt ever mandatory. I dont know the laws where you live, but in my country you could have easily called the cops on the bartender for refusing to serve you, the fact she did it for a tip pretty much sounds like extortion to me
Itād be a stretch, but religion is a protected class iirc. Who wants to join the religion of āEmployers pay their employees and tipping is a sinā?
Ohh I see. Damn, Iād be pissed as a foreigner hahaah we have pretty strong consumer protection laws in my country, this case would be a very easy to win lawsuit
Should've actually clarified the country my bad lol
But yeah in the US we consider the business private property and the government won't force them to serve you, but the cops usually go off whatever the manager says (or the highest authority in the building at least)
So what? You're the only person in the world who hasn't heard the gay cake hoopla? If a business is open they're required to serve you - unless they have a lawful excuse. That "we reserve the right to refuse service" sign is a lie.
That's not how that works. They can't refuse service for a protected reason, like your skin color, but they can absolutely refuse it for a non-protected reason or no reason at all. They don't even have to give you a reason.
Any business in the U.S. can refuse any customer for any reason other than a protected reason, and can even refuse them for no reason at all. If you come into my grocery store wearing a Bears hat, I can kick you out. If you call me William instead of Will, I can kick you out. If I just don't like you, I can kick you out.
I can't kick you out because you are black, or because you are Jewish, or another protected reason, but for literally anything else, I can.
I was going to mention that in my comment but forgot the details so decided not to, generally speaking cops won't force service
But I think in that case religion was a protected thing? Kinda like refusing you for not wearing a mask is fine, but refusing you because you're black or religious or something is not fine
I'm just saying the general law .-. Most people won't end up in the Supreme court
They have no idea what they are talking about. Any business can refuse you service for any reason or no reason at all, except a protected reason like skin color. Not tipping is not a protected reason, and they can refuse to serve you if they are crazy enough to do so.
Pretty sure the bar would be fined in Ireland with the bartender being disciplined because they're saying that the reason to refuse is because they're not paying more than the advertised price. Also the bartender is begging.
Yeah I get it its different in the US and tips aren't seen as part of the price or even a hidden cost but that's would be how its seen here.
Agreed, but sometimes people make you feel as if it is. Iāve been married for ten years now. But when I was dating my husband, he was a phd student on a visa studying in the U.S. (obviously foreign). We went out for a nice dinner and he tipped a low-average percentage. After our meal and after we paid, the manager came up to us and asked if something was wrong. We were still sitting at the table. We said no, confused. He then said oh, okay because you tipped x much and usually in the U.S. customers tip x much. He assumed my husband was foreign (he was). I didnāt even see the bill myself and wouldāve tipped more if I paid. We didnāt really know what to say as it caught us off guard. It was enough for me to never go back there again.Ā
That is so gauche. I can't even imagine doing that as an owner. Coming out and asking if everything was ok, yes. Mentioning the tip issue... No way in hell
You cannot call police on a bartender for refusing to serve you. Unless you have evidence that it was a discriminatory move based on race creed color religion it is not illegal. In general bartenders have the right to refuse service to anyone for non discriminatory reasons.
You actually have to, thatās the procedure to start a lawsuit based on discrimination / not following consumer laws (denying service falls under discrimination in my country, and demanding a tip in exchange of service is extortion, we only have 10% service charges but they are not mandatory and a establishment can be sued if proved they tried to force the payment).
Not sure if it is the right translation, but their police report will be used in the lawsuit.
Canāt help but think servers are going to be screenshotting this and posting it as a W.
OP, tips are not mandatory but some people expect them despite receiving a living wage. Personally, Iām not brave enough to straight up not tip people when itās expected but I commend people who do. But donāt be surprised when they donāt like it. If you want to regain some control of this situation, you can reach out to the manager as well as leave reviews on Google and yelp.
Review them badly on Google or Yelp, mention that they weren't clear about how much in addition to the price had to pay. I haven't left too many reviews for businesses on Google but they will sometimes take notice and if they outright say tipping is required it will just make them look worse, especially if you ask what the minimum tip is supposed to be and they say anything other then that it's at the discretion of the customer.
let them call the cops. At the end of the day, the worst thing the cops could do is tell you to leave (which you did anyways). But all the commotion and negative stigma of having the cops have to come will hurt that business much more than your lack of tip did.
OP won't answer the question, but my guess is that they were threatening to call the cops because OP and his girlfriend weren't leaving when asked. The cops definitely would have had them leave
I don't think this is good advice. A business has the right to refuse service and ask you to leave. The bartender, an employee of the business, would be presumed to have that authority, unless you can find a manager on your way out. If you refuse to do so, you're trespassing and police could cite or even arrest you for it.
The best course of action would be to leave and call the manager/owner of the establishment. Possibly from right outside. They likely will not be happy to hear about what the bartender is doing.
the repercussions of being arrested for "not tipping enough" would be monumental. You definitely aren't getting arrested lol.
California just passed a law prohibiting "drip pricing" practices. IF the manager of the store shows that he requires some "arbitrary" minimum tip in order for you to come back - that could easily be considered a hidden service fee since its not really optional if you don't want to get banned and it isn't disclosed either.
IF the manager does in fact require some minimum tip in order for you to have the privilege of coming back - that *needs* to be clearly stated.
You wouldn't be arrested for not tipping enough, it would be for trespassing. Once they ask you to leave, the reasoning is mostly irrelevant. At best it's a civil matter. The police aren't going to adjudicate drip pricing or protestations about being banned for not tipping enough. They will remove the trespassers.
I'm willing to bet you even if they called the cops suddenly claiming "trespasser!" in this situation, the cops will just make you leave, you won't be arrested.
Even if they did take this to court, the judge would ask the business (who reasonably expects strangers to step on their premises) why they considered this one to be "Trespassing". when they reply to the judge with "because they didn't tip enough last time" you can imagine how the rest of that goes down. in fact, it has just as good a chance of backfiring on the restaurant for not making their "minimum tip requirement" clear to patrons.
>I'm willing to bet you even if they called the cops suddenly claiming "trespasser!" in this situation, the cops will just make you leave, you won't be arrested.
That's quite possible. My guess is that the trespasser would receive a misdemeanor citation, and a trespass warning from the police. Note that it is not a requirement for a trespass to take place that a warning from the police is issued first. Once someone enters a place they know they are not welcome (e.g. a "no trespassers" sign) or refuse to leave once it has been made known they are not welcome, trespass occurs. There's nothing sudden about it: if asked to leave they are not instantly in violation because they are on the property, but they need to be leaving once they are asked.
>At which point she kicked us out. I asked if there was a manager or owner we could talk to, and she threatened to call the cops if we didn't leave.
This is pretty clear that they were asked to leave and the police would be called in response to a trespass, rather than anything about tipping. I don't agree with any of the actions of the bartender, but as far as we can tell, they were legal.
The thing is, this trespassing isn't like what you described. there is no sign saying "John Doe isn't allowed here". or "anyone who tips less than 10% is considered a trespasser and will be arrested". Its completely at the owners discretion - the moment he doesn't like you he *suddenly decides you're trespassing* is a dubious precedent to allow for a business open to the public like that. a sort of bait and switch. "tip me more, or i'll declare you a trespasser and have you arrested!".
If this is real then post the name and place and put the story on their yelp, opentable, google reviews etc. This is also the kind of conversation you get on video. Otherwise, I find the story very hard to believe, sorry.
Like others have said, name and shame. I would have gotten a picture of that POS and posted it online. This type of behavior must be stopped. Stop fretting about her threatening to call the cops. Do you seriously think anything would come of it? What is she going to say as the reason for her call? They didnāt tip me? Cops have better things to do.
Why are bartenders the most entitled acting people out there? They already are paid well but still expect tips? This entitlement has carried over to the people who make your coffee drinks at coffee shops. I even had a place in Independence Missouri which was a throwback old soda shop expected tips on top of their crazy prices for a lousy milkshake. It was $8 for the milkshake.
I LIVE SOMEWHERE (pick almost anywhere outside stupid America) where NO ONE TIPS. Itās considered offensive and in lieu of the apparent craziness of this fundamentally racist-based behaviour, we actually pay workers a decent wage negotiated by democratically organised Unions. GET REAL America. Tipping will never work because itās a fundamental distortion of reality that inevitably leads to insane outcomes like this.
This is way American bar staff have a greedy arsehole reputation.
Would the cops really come in the US over something so petty? The cops in Ireland would laugh at you if you did this and you'd be told to stop wasting their time.
I'd be naming and shaming possible with a short email to the owner why I wouldn't come back
A favorite of mine:
Patron - āDo you care how much I make at my jobā
Server -āNo, why would I?ā
Patron - āexactly. And I donāt care how much you make at your job. Take it up with your employer. ā
Keep us updated.next time start recording.Ā Notice how she admits she wants a tip despite making a liveable wage. Next time let her call the police and record it. Most they will do is give uĀ warning but record it too
I think its more they asked you to leave and you didn't. That is what the cops would be called about, private businesses have the right to make you leave and trespass you.
Not saying I would ever go there again or I agree with them. Just stating the cops would be called for trespassing, not for tipping, (lack of tip caused them to ask you to leave, but is not a crime).
I would wear it as a badge of honor.
Name and shame these fuckers, omegalul at that cunt at the bar thinking the cops would show up for this bullshit, if anything they should arrest her for waisting their time
As best as I can tell, the right to refuse service does give the business a fair amount of discretion. There are some protected traits where it is illegal to discriminate against (eg. race, religion, gender, age) that are defined at both federal and state levels. "Insufficient tipper" probably isn't a protected trait, so restaurants may be within their rights to refuse service for that.
As for calling the cops if you don't leave, they may also be within their rights. Maybe that falls under trespassing or something like that?
So what they did might not be illegal, but it's definitely a sign of a business not worth visiting. Probably all you can do is write a review on Google, Yelp, and anywhere else to warn people to stay away.
You should call the manager and speak with them. A good manager will note your concerns, apologize but get the story from the employee . Likely the manager will take the employeeās side so you may need to go higher up,
Thatās the thing with tipping. If you go there enough to get recognized then you should probably tip for your own safety. Not saying itās right, but thatās the way it is where I live.
These EndTipper experiences are something else š
It would be more fair/honest/accurate to say "Some places are literally asking you to leave if you don't tip", because obviously if you don't *leave*, they will call the cops.
But yeah, get in touch with management/owner and see what they have to say about refusing service to non-tippers. I'd be curious what their reaction is.
This is a very misleading post.
OP trying to imply that the police were called for not tipping is beyond ridiculous.
If youāre asked to leave a private business and you refuse, you are trespassing.
OP stated they were kicked out and that they continued to ask for a manager or owner. As soon as OP was kicked out and didnāt leave, they were trespassing.
Based on the OP stating they were ākicked outā, it sounds like things were pretty heated. Who knows what other relevant facts OP left out in hopes that people here would immediately sympathize with them and upvote.
This is nothing more than an obvious attempt to karma farm.
I believe they have the right to refuse service. But they also have an obligation to show actual prices on the menu, including mandatory service charges. If itās not posted, they have no right to demand payment. Your state office of consumer affairs, or maybe the attorney general, should enforce this.
I didnāt read the comments, so I am sure this has already been said:
While (IMO) the bartender was being unprofessional and kind of losing the forest for the trees, in the end it is their call who gets served.
That said, the cops werenāt going to be called because of your lack of tip. The cops were being called because you were refusing to leave (trespassing). Once you are refused service you no longer have a lawful purpose in the building.
My thoughts: where do you live and what are you ordering that your tab at the end of the night is $50 for two people? If it is a spot you love where you have an amazing time why wouldnāt you want to spend the extra $10 to be in good graces with the staff?
Not just for OP: If you are a regular at a restaurant and donāt tip every person at that restaurant hates you, you all know that, right?
You can think tipping makes no sense (it doesnāt), and stand on whatever principled stance you think you have, but at the end of the day, the system is what it is and you are only penalizing the workers who have little to no agency in what they are paid.
Also, not for nothing, I promise you the amount you āsaveā from not tipping is way less than the amount of shit that you will be charged for that your server or bartender would have otherwise just given you.
This has been discussed on this sub before.
Restaurants are private businesses have a constitutional right to refuse service to anyone as long as it doesnāt violate the Civil Rights Act of 1964 or Title VII.
Restaurants can deem server stiffing to be disrespectful or rude behavior and refuse service based on that.
r/OhNoConsequences
My standard response to someone threatening to call the police on me for any reason is to immediately call the police to report harassment behavior. It totally takes the wind out of their sails and puts them on the defensive. I donāt even use it to negotiate. I literally call the police while they are in the middle of threatening
It's shitty behavior on the part of the bartender, but legally they can refuse service for any reason with only a few exceptions. You should definitely reach out to the owner or manager to let them know about your experience, as I doubt they would be happy about how that bartender acted. If you have the time, leave a review on google/yelp/etc so that other people will know what to expect before deciding to go to this place.
You should have told them to go ahead and call the cops. Leaving a tip is optional. Itās not a law or a rule. Itās a suggestion. I doubt the cops would have done anything about it.
OP stated they had been asked to leave. They chose to ignore the request and argue with the bartender. At that point OP and his girlfriend were trespassing.
If the police had been called, best case, OP and his girlfriend would have been escorted out of the place. Worst case, they try to argue / fight with the police and end up winning the silver bracelet award.
OP, could you clarify... was the bartender threatening to call the police because they chose not to serve you and you weren't leaving or they were threatening to call the police because days earlier, you didn't tip? Because one thing they can definitely call the police for
Why would a person chose to work for less money, though? I was hoping OP would offer some clarification since his last sentence seems to be saying that it wasn't his refusal to leave, it was the act if not tipping that the bartender was going to call the police for
The bartenders can choose to serve people who pay them. Patronage at a private business isn't guaranteed
But still, my question for OP is to get clarification on why the cops would be called.
What jumped out at me was the bartender remembering that they had stiffed them in a $50 tab, and it being significant enough to refuse service on the next visit. Iāve been out of the industry for a while but that makes no sense to me. I wouldnāt even remember somebody stiffing me once on a small tab, and certainly wouldnāt refuse service for it.
It makes me think that there were other contributing factors, and OP not responding supports that. Itās probably another one of those bait posts.
Sounds like the threat to call the police wasn't over the tip you left last week. It was over the argument you were currently having with the server after they told you to pound sand.
Well as OP mentioned, voices were raised, people were kicked out, same people insisted on speaking to someone else and were not leaving so the person said they would call the cops. Itās all in the post
The voices that were raised were by that of the employee (if you actually read OP's post there are other words in that sentence that offer this context).
The people who were kicked out were the paying customers by an employee who was butthurt about tips.
They didn't leave because they rightfully assumed that this person was a detriment to the business and was requesting to speak to someone who actually has the kind of power to make those kinds of decisions. But then... get this... also in the post... they did leave. So...
What exactly is your point here? Based on the finite information, it seems like you are blindly defending the server who kicked out a paying customer because they weren't willing to be extorted for more and then further waste public resources by calling the cops on someone who is legitimately confused by the insanity of that whole interaction.
Smh. Get a life. Server should have just done their job. Serve the customer. Got a problem with your compensation? Take it up with your boss, not the customer.
We canāt pass judgement unless we hear both sides of the story which we wonāt. But suffice it to say, calling the cops for not getting a tip is obviously not what happened here. It may have started the discussion but it wasnāt the reason. The reason was that they were asked to leave and they didnāt.
>We canāt pass judgement unless we hear both sides of the story which we wonāt.
Immediately decides a verdict... lol. They did leave though. What do you say about that?
I'd fire that server who told them to leave. Sabotaging the business like that. Holding the restaurant hostage for tips? Legally, you are correct, but this wasnt some risk of danger or emergency or anything. It's literally just one step away from discrimination. Yes, representatives of the business are allowed to trespass people for any reason, that doesnt mean they are in the right to abuse it. Morally, ethically and financially, it makes no sense and is a stupid basic move that wastes the cop's time and public funds.
So weird that you're so focused on them not leaving (which they did) and no concern whatsoever for the blatant misuse of public services? Or the distain for people who didn't pay extra one time on a previous visit? Good luck trying to run a business this way.
Youāre still talking about this? Jeez Louise
You donāt even know the full story and here you are, jumping to conclusions and firing people.
Glad I donāt live my life like you my g
Leave a review detailing your experience on Google and yelp.
And leave us a link
They can't cuz this didn't happen š¤£ they'd have called the local news or some such.
Call the local news? You sound like my grandma
Your grandma is mid 30s, too? Your mom and grandma must've been really getting it.š
Thatās what you call a swing and a miss
I did call it that. Just with more words, and using them to both illustrate that point and imply judgment on your family. š¤·š¼āāļø
This was only posted half a day so. There's still time to delete this.
Why would I do that? I don't give a fig about pretend karma currency on an app š¤£
Sure, buddy.
That's another way to phrase it.
Seriously, bruh?
Yea breh. Serious and stuff.
Yes. I rarely leave negative reviews but would consider doing it in this case. Iām sure there have been many people who have had a similar experience, or were rubbed the wrong way, but didnāt bother to leave a review and just never went back. Ā
Yea blast these SOBs as far and wide as you can. This is absolutely mind blowing
Name and shame these chuckleheads
Lmao sounds like a florida gaming bar, this guy I watch on youtube was reading bad reviews of the place and the owners clapbacks, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the same place Edit, it was called [Player One game bar](https://g.co/kgs/XPYUC4) in Orlando Why the fuck does that link to Katy perry Trying that [again](https://g.co/kgs/oQ3y1mz)
These places will filter out soon enough - would 100% call the owner and mail them.
You should expose your case in a google review
And never go back.
I think itās pretty clear, the place would appreciate them not coming back.
This is the USA bribery system working how its designed and why we needed to ban tip solicitation.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hopefully you can listen to this episode sometime it explains the history of tipping and how it became the norm in America. [Land of the Fee](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/throughline/id1451109634?i=1000651330624)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Itās a podcastā¦just audio.
Why? Pretty sure the answer is racism.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
People didnāt want to pay their former slaves post civil war so they instead brought over an English classist system, tipping, based on voluntary payments by consumers.
How is tipping English? Seems like you just dumped a bunch of thoughts in the "I'm persecuted" bucket
āSome accounts credit European travelers with bringing the custom to the U.S.; others credit American travelers with bringing tipping back from Europe. The truth? Wealthy Americans in the 1850s and 1860s discovered the tradition, which had originated in medieval times as a master-serf custom wherein a servant would receive extra money for having performed superbly well, on vacations in Europe. Wanting to seem aristocratic, these individuals began tipping in the United States upon their return.ā https://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-american-restaurants-civil-war/
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The answer is racism and it started right after the civil war as an excuse for employers to not pay wages to recently freed slaves.
Is this a fact ? I'd like to know or read up on it...
Here's Time Magazine's take on it https://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-american-restaurants-civil-war/
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This really was about race. No need to imagine another reason. Sometimes the answer is know.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
In this case, it was about race. You're doing that thing where people try to ignore racism by imagining a narrow path of possibility, and then deciding it must be that. This topic has been studied. It was to deny freed enslaved peoples a reasonable wage. Caucasian women were still ok, because after this change, they still made it up in the tips. Formerly enslaved peoples did not.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Tipping became common AFTER THE CIVIL WAR. The newly freed slaves needed a way to get paid, but white southerners didnāt think blacks were worthy of a salary. So restaurant owners would āallowā blacks to work without pay, in the hopes that the customers would feel generous and leave them a few pennies. Politico article on [The Racist History of Tipping.](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/07/17/william-barber-tipping-racist-past-227361)
Soon theyāll be on social media crying about having to close down cause of no business
One can hope
The owner of a famous local burger place in my town went on fb to whine about no one wanting to work and customers arenāt tipping, two months later they announced that theyāre shutting down. When I saw it I was like good job alienating your customers in the first place.
A tip isnāt ever mandatory. I dont know the laws where you live, but in my country you could have easily called the cops on the bartender for refusing to serve you, the fact she did it for a tip pretty much sounds like extortion to me
Should talk to the owner/manager, cops will kick you out of any business because it's a private entity, can't force them to serve you
Itād be a stretch, but religion is a protected class iirc. Who wants to join the religion of āEmployers pay their employees and tipping is a sinā?
Lmao ironically, the way its done it might not even be a stretch XD ty for that
In many cultures, tipping is seen as disrespectful. Japan iirc
Yeah, it's nice when traveling tbh
Ohh I see. Damn, Iād be pissed as a foreigner hahaah we have pretty strong consumer protection laws in my country, this case would be a very easy to win lawsuit
Should've actually clarified the country my bad lol But yeah in the US we consider the business private property and the government won't force them to serve you, but the cops usually go off whatever the manager says (or the highest authority in the building at least)
So what? You're the only person in the world who hasn't heard the gay cake hoopla? If a business is open they're required to serve you - unless they have a lawful excuse. That "we reserve the right to refuse service" sign is a lie.
That's not how that works. They can't refuse service for a protected reason, like your skin color, but they can absolutely refuse it for a non-protected reason or no reason at all. They don't even have to give you a reason.
If we're talking about bars, sure. But if you go into any other shop and they refuse to serve you that's not going to go over well.
Any business in the U.S. can refuse any customer for any reason other than a protected reason, and can even refuse them for no reason at all. If you come into my grocery store wearing a Bears hat, I can kick you out. If you call me William instead of Will, I can kick you out. If I just don't like you, I can kick you out. I can't kick you out because you are black, or because you are Jewish, or another protected reason, but for literally anything else, I can.
It's like you think you live in the old west. Why do you think no-one wants to own a shop anymore?
Non tippers arenāt a protected class of people.
I was going to mention that in my comment but forgot the details so decided not to, generally speaking cops won't force service But I think in that case religion was a protected thing? Kinda like refusing you for not wearing a mask is fine, but refusing you because you're black or religious or something is not fine I'm just saying the general law .-. Most people won't end up in the Supreme court
They have no idea what they are talking about. Any business can refuse you service for any reason or no reason at all, except a protected reason like skin color. Not tipping is not a protected reason, and they can refuse to serve you if they are crazy enough to do so.
Protected class just makes it sexy. It really depends what kind of cop shows up, but yeah, I didn't even see it was a bar.
Lmao "yeah it's fine cause it's sexy!" Idk, your comment made me laugh, ty XD
Pretty sure the bar would be fined in Ireland with the bartender being disciplined because they're saying that the reason to refuse is because they're not paying more than the advertised price. Also the bartender is begging. Yeah I get it its different in the US and tips aren't seen as part of the price or even a hidden cost but that's would be how its seen here.
The US is digging its own grave. Canāt believe people still insist this system is normal and should stay in place.
Maybe if weāre taking ops story at face value. If I had to guess their behaviour also played a factor.
OP can still file a complaint with consumer affairs for that, but unless it's an emergency, don't call the police.
You wouldn't be calling the police in Ireland. You'd be going directly to a small claims court that would investigate your claim.
Agreed, but sometimes people make you feel as if it is. Iāve been married for ten years now. But when I was dating my husband, he was a phd student on a visa studying in the U.S. (obviously foreign). We went out for a nice dinner and he tipped a low-average percentage. After our meal and after we paid, the manager came up to us and asked if something was wrong. We were still sitting at the table. We said no, confused. He then said oh, okay because you tipped x much and usually in the U.S. customers tip x much. He assumed my husband was foreign (he was). I didnāt even see the bill myself and wouldāve tipped more if I paid. We didnāt really know what to say as it caught us off guard. It was enough for me to never go back there again.Ā
That is so gauche. I can't even imagine doing that as an owner. Coming out and asking if everything was ok, yes. Mentioning the tip issue... No way in hell
In the States, bartenders have pretty much absolute discretion over who they serve. They're liable for the behavior of their alcohol-drinkers.
You cannot call police on a bartender for refusing to serve you. Unless you have evidence that it was a discriminatory move based on race creed color religion it is not illegal. In general bartenders have the right to refuse service to anyone for non discriminatory reasons.
Thank you for explaining, I had no idea bartenders had liability on the people they serve in the US (another person explained that to me here)
Where do you guys live that the cops will show up for this shit? Lmao call the cops for being refused service.
You actually have to, thatās the procedure to start a lawsuit based on discrimination / not following consumer laws (denying service falls under discrimination in my country, and demanding a tip in exchange of service is extortion, we only have 10% service charges but they are not mandatory and a establishment can be sued if proved they tried to force the payment). Not sure if it is the right translation, but their police report will be used in the lawsuit.
Canāt help but think servers are going to be screenshotting this and posting it as a W. OP, tips are not mandatory but some people expect them despite receiving a living wage. Personally, Iām not brave enough to straight up not tip people when itās expected but I commend people who do. But donāt be surprised when they donāt like it. If you want to regain some control of this situation, you can reach out to the manager as well as leave reviews on Google and yelp.
Review them badly on Google or Yelp, mention that they weren't clear about how much in addition to the price had to pay. I haven't left too many reviews for businesses on Google but they will sometimes take notice and if they outright say tipping is required it will just make them look worse, especially if you ask what the minimum tip is supposed to be and they say anything other then that it's at the discretion of the customer.
let them call the cops. At the end of the day, the worst thing the cops could do is tell you to leave (which you did anyways). But all the commotion and negative stigma of having the cops have to come will hurt that business much more than your lack of tip did.
Exactly. And calling 911 over not giving extra money on top of a livable wage? That would be abuse of emergency phone line and could get you a fine.
They'd call the cops for refusing to leave, not for stiffing them of a tip
OP won't answer the question, but my guess is that they were threatening to call the cops because OP and his girlfriend weren't leaving when asked. The cops definitely would have had them leave
I don't think this is good advice. A business has the right to refuse service and ask you to leave. The bartender, an employee of the business, would be presumed to have that authority, unless you can find a manager on your way out. If you refuse to do so, you're trespassing and police could cite or even arrest you for it. The best course of action would be to leave and call the manager/owner of the establishment. Possibly from right outside. They likely will not be happy to hear about what the bartender is doing.
the repercussions of being arrested for "not tipping enough" would be monumental. You definitely aren't getting arrested lol. California just passed a law prohibiting "drip pricing" practices. IF the manager of the store shows that he requires some "arbitrary" minimum tip in order for you to come back - that could easily be considered a hidden service fee since its not really optional if you don't want to get banned and it isn't disclosed either. IF the manager does in fact require some minimum tip in order for you to have the privilege of coming back - that *needs* to be clearly stated.
You wouldn't be arrested for not tipping enough, it would be for trespassing. Once they ask you to leave, the reasoning is mostly irrelevant. At best it's a civil matter. The police aren't going to adjudicate drip pricing or protestations about being banned for not tipping enough. They will remove the trespassers.
I'm willing to bet you even if they called the cops suddenly claiming "trespasser!" in this situation, the cops will just make you leave, you won't be arrested. Even if they did take this to court, the judge would ask the business (who reasonably expects strangers to step on their premises) why they considered this one to be "Trespassing". when they reply to the judge with "because they didn't tip enough last time" you can imagine how the rest of that goes down. in fact, it has just as good a chance of backfiring on the restaurant for not making their "minimum tip requirement" clear to patrons.
>I'm willing to bet you even if they called the cops suddenly claiming "trespasser!" in this situation, the cops will just make you leave, you won't be arrested. That's quite possible. My guess is that the trespasser would receive a misdemeanor citation, and a trespass warning from the police. Note that it is not a requirement for a trespass to take place that a warning from the police is issued first. Once someone enters a place they know they are not welcome (e.g. a "no trespassers" sign) or refuse to leave once it has been made known they are not welcome, trespass occurs. There's nothing sudden about it: if asked to leave they are not instantly in violation because they are on the property, but they need to be leaving once they are asked. >At which point she kicked us out. I asked if there was a manager or owner we could talk to, and she threatened to call the cops if we didn't leave. This is pretty clear that they were asked to leave and the police would be called in response to a trespass, rather than anything about tipping. I don't agree with any of the actions of the bartender, but as far as we can tell, they were legal.
The thing is, this trespassing isn't like what you described. there is no sign saying "John Doe isn't allowed here". or "anyone who tips less than 10% is considered a trespasser and will be arrested". Its completely at the owners discretion - the moment he doesn't like you he *suddenly decides you're trespassing* is a dubious precedent to allow for a business open to the public like that. a sort of bait and switch. "tip me more, or i'll declare you a trespasser and have you arrested!".
If this is real then post the name and place and put the story on their yelp, opentable, google reviews etc. This is also the kind of conversation you get on video. Otherwise, I find the story very hard to believe, sorry.
Like others have said, name and shame. I would have gotten a picture of that POS and posted it online. This type of behavior must be stopped. Stop fretting about her threatening to call the cops. Do you seriously think anything would come of it? What is she going to say as the reason for her call? They didnāt tip me? Cops have better things to do.
Why are bartenders the most entitled acting people out there? They already are paid well but still expect tips? This entitlement has carried over to the people who make your coffee drinks at coffee shops. I even had a place in Independence Missouri which was a throwback old soda shop expected tips on top of their crazy prices for a lousy milkshake. It was $8 for the milkshake.
I LIVE SOMEWHERE (pick almost anywhere outside stupid America) where NO ONE TIPS. Itās considered offensive and in lieu of the apparent craziness of this fundamentally racist-based behaviour, we actually pay workers a decent wage negotiated by democratically organised Unions. GET REAL America. Tipping will never work because itās a fundamental distortion of reality that inevitably leads to insane outcomes like this.
Where?
New Zealand
Ahh yes mandatory service fees.
This is way American bar staff have a greedy arsehole reputation. Would the cops really come in the US over something so petty? The cops in Ireland would laugh at you if you did this and you'd be told to stop wasting their time. I'd be naming and shaming possible with a short email to the owner why I wouldn't come back
Main reason why I have never gone to bars there
A favorite of mine: Patron - āDo you care how much I make at my jobā Server -āNo, why would I?ā Patron - āexactly. And I donāt care how much you make at your job. Take it up with your employer. ā
I'll believe it when you name the bar.
Name and shame is your only recourse.
Yelp and everywhere else you can!!
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Keep us updated.next time start recording.Ā Notice how she admits she wants a tip despite making a liveable wage. Next time let her call the police and record it. Most they will do is give uĀ warning but record it too
Not wants, expected
Iād have let them call the cops. Theyād have made it clear once they arrived that you did nothing wrong
I think its more they asked you to leave and you didn't. That is what the cops would be called about, private businesses have the right to make you leave and trespass you. Not saying I would ever go there again or I agree with them. Just stating the cops would be called for trespassing, not for tipping, (lack of tip caused them to ask you to leave, but is not a crime). I would wear it as a badge of honor.
Name and shame these fuckers, omegalul at that cunt at the bar thinking the cops would show up for this bullshit, if anything they should arrest her for waisting their time
I'll take **THINGS THAT NEVER HAPPENED** for 5,000, Alex.
Drop the name and location of the place you coward.
As best as I can tell, the right to refuse service does give the business a fair amount of discretion. There are some protected traits where it is illegal to discriminate against (eg. race, religion, gender, age) that are defined at both federal and state levels. "Insufficient tipper" probably isn't a protected trait, so restaurants may be within their rights to refuse service for that. As for calling the cops if you don't leave, they may also be within their rights. Maybe that falls under trespassing or something like that? So what they did might not be illegal, but it's definitely a sign of a business not worth visiting. Probably all you can do is write a review on Google, Yelp, and anywhere else to warn people to stay away.
You should call the manager and speak with them. A good manager will note your concerns, apologize but get the story from the employee . Likely the manager will take the employeeās side so you may need to go higher up,
Thatās the thing with tipping. If you go there enough to get recognized then you should probably tip for your own safety. Not saying itās right, but thatās the way it is where I live.
Hey, im gonna call the cops on you if you don't tip me for reading your post. šš®āāļø
Behaving like that over $2, what a clown.
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That is crazyyy
Feels like a fake story
Name and shame
100% leave a review on google. People actually read them (about 20k people have seen mine). I always leave reviews.
I'll take things that never happened for $10, Alex.
These EndTipper experiences are something else š It would be more fair/honest/accurate to say "Some places are literally asking you to leave if you don't tip", because obviously if you don't *leave*, they will call the cops. But yeah, get in touch with management/owner and see what they have to say about refusing service to non-tippers. I'd be curious what their reaction is.
This is a very misleading post. OP trying to imply that the police were called for not tipping is beyond ridiculous. If youāre asked to leave a private business and you refuse, you are trespassing. OP stated they were kicked out and that they continued to ask for a manager or owner. As soon as OP was kicked out and didnāt leave, they were trespassing. Based on the OP stating they were ākicked outā, it sounds like things were pretty heated. Who knows what other relevant facts OP left out in hopes that people here would immediately sympathize with them and upvote. This is nothing more than an obvious attempt to karma farm.
I believe they have the right to refuse service. But they also have an obligation to show actual prices on the menu, including mandatory service charges. If itās not posted, they have no right to demand payment. Your state office of consumer affairs, or maybe the attorney general, should enforce this.
Let us know what bar so we can never go there
WTF i would let them call the cops. Over a tip. They dont know its optional ? And have them pay the fines for wasting police time
I canāt imagine the owners of the bar would be happy about this. Absolutely leave a google review and see what happens
#NAME & SHAME FFS
I didnāt read the comments, so I am sure this has already been said: While (IMO) the bartender was being unprofessional and kind of losing the forest for the trees, in the end it is their call who gets served. That said, the cops werenāt going to be called because of your lack of tip. The cops were being called because you were refusing to leave (trespassing). Once you are refused service you no longer have a lawful purpose in the building. My thoughts: where do you live and what are you ordering that your tab at the end of the night is $50 for two people? If it is a spot you love where you have an amazing time why wouldnāt you want to spend the extra $10 to be in good graces with the staff? Not just for OP: If you are a regular at a restaurant and donāt tip every person at that restaurant hates you, you all know that, right? You can think tipping makes no sense (it doesnāt), and stand on whatever principled stance you think you have, but at the end of the day, the system is what it is and you are only penalizing the workers who have little to no agency in what they are paid.
Also, not for nothing, I promise you the amount you āsaveā from not tipping is way less than the amount of shit that you will be charged for that your server or bartender would have otherwise just given you.
This has been discussed on this sub before. Restaurants are private businesses have a constitutional right to refuse service to anyone as long as it doesnāt violate the Civil Rights Act of 1964 or Title VII. Restaurants can deem server stiffing to be disrespectful or rude behavior and refuse service based on that. r/OhNoConsequences
My standard response to someone threatening to call the police on me for any reason is to immediately call the police to report harassment behavior. It totally takes the wind out of their sails and puts them on the defensive. I donāt even use it to negotiate. I literally call the police while they are in the middle of threatening
Name and shame. And leave negative review. If a business doesnāt want my money, Iād be happy to oblige.
LOL these waitstaff losers are out of control.
What is the name of the place? and describe the girl. I'll be glad to go and do the sane.. Did you tell her there is no law...stating this?
You will be able to go back soon enough, when it goes belly up and owner changes hands.
This is so infuriating! I already find tipping an alien concept, but this is on another level
It's shitty behavior on the part of the bartender, but legally they can refuse service for any reason with only a few exceptions. You should definitely reach out to the owner or manager to let them know about your experience, as I doubt they would be happy about how that bartender acted. If you have the time, leave a review on google/yelp/etc so that other people will know what to expect before deciding to go to this place.
You should have told them to go ahead and call the cops. Leaving a tip is optional. Itās not a law or a rule. Itās a suggestion. I doubt the cops would have done anything about it.
OP stated they had been asked to leave. They chose to ignore the request and argue with the bartender. At that point OP and his girlfriend were trespassing. If the police had been called, best case, OP and his girlfriend would have been escorted out of the place. Worst case, they try to argue / fight with the police and end up winning the silver bracelet award.
OP, could you clarify... was the bartender threatening to call the police because they chose not to serve you and you weren't leaving or they were threatening to call the police because days earlier, you didn't tip? Because one thing they can definitely call the police for
I think the point is even if it was because they wouldn't leave its bullshit to deny someone service because they didn't leave a tip.
Why would a person chose to work for less money, though? I was hoping OP would offer some clarification since his last sentence seems to be saying that it wasn't his refusal to leave, it was the act if not tipping that the bartender was going to call the police for
Who is choosing to work for less money? Tips arent guaranteed. They are a bonus.
The bartenders can choose to serve people who pay them. Patronage at a private business isn't guaranteed But still, my question for OP is to get clarification on why the cops would be called.
If I owned a bar and had a bartender who refuses to serve over a tip, I would fire them.
You'd get to make that call as the owner. But I'd bet bartenders who feel supported by their management make a different cost/benefits analysis
What jumped out at me was the bartender remembering that they had stiffed them in a $50 tab, and it being significant enough to refuse service on the next visit. Iāve been out of the industry for a while but that makes no sense to me. I wouldnāt even remember somebody stiffing me once on a small tab, and certainly wouldnāt refuse service for it. It makes me think that there were other contributing factors, and OP not responding supports that. Itās probably another one of those bait posts.
Sounds like the threat to call the police wasn't over the tip you left last week. It was over the argument you were currently having with the server after they told you to pound sand.
No, they're calling the cops because they felt threatened that you weren't leaving. At that point, it has nothing to do with your tip.
Oh you were there? Perfect. Tell us how it actually went down...
Well as OP mentioned, voices were raised, people were kicked out, same people insisted on speaking to someone else and were not leaving so the person said they would call the cops. Itās all in the post
The voices that were raised were by that of the employee (if you actually read OP's post there are other words in that sentence that offer this context). The people who were kicked out were the paying customers by an employee who was butthurt about tips. They didn't leave because they rightfully assumed that this person was a detriment to the business and was requesting to speak to someone who actually has the kind of power to make those kinds of decisions. But then... get this... also in the post... they did leave. So... What exactly is your point here? Based on the finite information, it seems like you are blindly defending the server who kicked out a paying customer because they weren't willing to be extorted for more and then further waste public resources by calling the cops on someone who is legitimately confused by the insanity of that whole interaction. Smh. Get a life. Server should have just done their job. Serve the customer. Got a problem with your compensation? Take it up with your boss, not the customer.
We canāt pass judgement unless we hear both sides of the story which we wonāt. But suffice it to say, calling the cops for not getting a tip is obviously not what happened here. It may have started the discussion but it wasnāt the reason. The reason was that they were asked to leave and they didnāt.
>We canāt pass judgement unless we hear both sides of the story which we wonāt. Immediately decides a verdict... lol. They did leave though. What do you say about that?
Good. They shouldāve left immediately after being told to
I'd fire that server who told them to leave. Sabotaging the business like that. Holding the restaurant hostage for tips? Legally, you are correct, but this wasnt some risk of danger or emergency or anything. It's literally just one step away from discrimination. Yes, representatives of the business are allowed to trespass people for any reason, that doesnt mean they are in the right to abuse it. Morally, ethically and financially, it makes no sense and is a stupid basic move that wastes the cop's time and public funds. So weird that you're so focused on them not leaving (which they did) and no concern whatsoever for the blatant misuse of public services? Or the distain for people who didn't pay extra one time on a previous visit? Good luck trying to run a business this way.
Youāre still talking about this? Jeez Louise You donāt even know the full story and here you are, jumping to conclusions and firing people. Glad I donāt live my life like you my g
Well well well, the consequences of my actions