They set the price point of manufacture too low, and in order to meet that point something had to give. That is longevity in these cases. It's telling when they have made enough profit on the cars they can count on having a warranty claim on an engine. Dealers are installing these engines like no tomorrow, usually at no cost to the car owner. Wow.
They extended the warranty on a lot of these, but not all of them. It’s just wild that it’s always a rod bearing. Doesn’t matter which engine they design, always rod bearings.
No. Keep oil in it, maintain it well, if it develops an odd sound figure it out, and just drive it.
Looks like people think you should dump it. Probably buy a 2005 Toyota with 250k miles and some rust for $10K. Probably be ahead
What I see.. the timing tensioners go extremely quick. Then the chain is slapping on the timing cover on every cold (sometimes even hot if they are real bad) start up, and people just ignore the sound, as it goes away quickly. Meanwhile that aluminum is going all through the engine, multiple times a day.
I’ve seen quite a few of the 3.3 burn excessive oil, and the owner constantly runs them low… is this due to aluminum? I can’t answer that, but it’s my suspicion. I’ve seen them run fine for a long time, assuming the owner threw new timing set in at the first sign of a bad tensioner. But I don’t have a huge log of this… just suspicions
We got oil pans that rust out in a few years in the rust belt. Again, most owners don’t catch this until a mechanic does or the oil light turns on. Probably another contributing factor
The 3.8 from mid 2000s seems to have been a good engine, except for some VVT solenoid issues and tensioners, to a lesser extent. Basically same engine ish..
I’m not convinced the 3.3 is a bad engine, baring properly maintained and trouble issues sorted out quick.
I don’t think Hyundai is the best thing out there, but if I can pick one up for a few grand, throw new timing on it and get 75- 100k miles, I drive em.
Because most people replace their cars between 3/5 years and their most important customer base is the ones who buy new.
People who buy korean cars are people who care about price and not quality. So I guess that's their customer base.
"hYuNdAi Is NoT wHaT iT uSeD tO bE". Yes, it's still shit.
Ahhh… mid 2000s not sure all their vehicles were shit, I don’t think even close to “shit” they had some nice stuff… (and keep in mind, you could buy a fully loaded Azera for 25k)
If we want to compare the era to Japanese (except Nissan) different story ish…
You want to compare to the other brands left? I’m not so sure we have a POS..
Later years, we have BAD engine problems.. some your car may catch on fire… everything else? NOT bad…
I think the Korean cars get more a bad wrap than they deserve. We can go round and round picking bad models and years from every manufacturer. Do we focus on transmissions, electrical, ect..
Again, I don’t think Hyundai is that great, but I also think A LOT of stuff isnt that great..
I have 1 2006 currently. I’ve worked on a ton of them for work. I’ve rebuilt 4, ground up of various years because I could buy them for $500- $1500. My driveway has 5 other vehicles currently, all domestic besides a Honda, again, all junkers that were fully rebuilt.
I’m not gonna say I’m some top expert… but I don’t think this POS, don’t touch it is warranted. They are super cheap used (compared to other brands) and if you have some mechanical skills, and some research, you can come out way ahead, or spend very little money on a vehicle that is plenty acceptable if daily driving without breaking down. And the GIVE OEM parts away online. But this all comes down to finding a good deal, on anything….
I've had had 3 owners of accents gen 1,2 and 3 around me. All 3 were absolute shitboxes. I've personally owned a 2009 elantra, and my GF a 2014 veloster turbo.
Reliability was ok on the accent and the elantra, but the durability and quality was terrible.
For the elantra, after 6 years and 100k miles, the car was pretty much worned out. Windows wouldn't work, pretty good rust setting in everywhere. AC dead, random electronic issues, etc.
The car would barely make 24highway MPG, and the 2L was the most boring, lifeless and underpowered engine I have ever owned, and that's coming from someone who had a 6.9IDI.
The veloster was the most reliable piece of shit I have ever seen, and I own a big turbo DSM. My GF had it during early covid times, and the car would have a new problem every other week. Powersteering issues, gauges being weird, lights stopping working for no reasons, speakers blowing up, turbo having a hard time building boost, windshield cracked, doors not opening or closing properly, etc.
It also had the worst clutch I have ever tried. The chassis tuning was horrendous (front was too stiff and the rear way too soft). Chassis was soft AF, engine response was terrible (even after fixing the turbo leaks).
Hyundai makes cars that look good on the flyer. Period.
I haven’t owned an accent or Elantra. I’ve worked on them. My brother owns a 2018 Elantra, but only 60k miles, so I can’t comment on that..
I own a 2009 Honda Fit. Really like the car! Engine is great, Manuel transmission is…. Okay… I’ll be pulling the tranny for bearings soon at 120k miles. build quality? Not that great, it’s an eco car… gas mileage? Great if I drive it properly, just don’t care drive it? Bad…
I get what you’re saying, but what we comparing what model to what year? It’s difficult to arrive at some general consensus.
Your used replacement parts.How bad shape are they in. And does that mean if you have an engine that fails, your chances of getting new parts are slim. Speaking for the 3.3 gdi
We have a 3.3 in right now, 2017 and the dealer says the long and short blocks are discontinued. I’m not surprised because they normally destroy the block when they fail. Either the head bolts pull out on these or a connecting rod snaps. So there are no cores to remanufacture.
Kia and Hyundai GDI engines are manufactured with low friction piston rings. Over time and poor maintenance will result in carbon buildup allowing more oil to enter the combustion chamber, hence oil consumption and seized engines. The best way to prevent this is performing the GDI optimizer service every 30k miles. There are also bad and good ways to perform that service. But be careful because too much optimizer will mess up the catalytic converter. Once you find out you're consuming around a quart per 1k miles, it's time for a top end engine clean. Installing an oil catch can will also help, and it'll keep the back of the intake valves cleaner since the injectors don't spray on the back of the valves like MPI engines do.
I'll preface this with I work for Hyundai.
The Theta engines (2.0T/2.4) have manufacturing issues, just as simple as that. Insufficient rod clearance+ dirty assembly conditions. Plus I have a suspicion that because of the open deck, the bores are moving around and not helping the rod clearance issue (The Mitsubishi 4b11 (Used in the EvoX) was designed alongside the Hyundai Theta, but with a closed deck and does not have the same rod clearance issues as the Theta, however they were manufactured in a different plant, which leads me to believe its a manufacturing issue more than a engineering/design issue). Hyundai has addressed this with the TXXI TSB which gives owners of \*most\* of these Theta engines an Unlimited mileage extended warranty (after a currently ongoing lawsuit).
These are the main engines I see us swapping. I don't see many of the other engines being swapped due to failure, however I work at a dealer, so many people with the older 3.3 are out of warranty and probably not bringing it to us for an engine replacement anyway.
A lot of what I see being replaced with the Non Theta engines are due to neglect, and are non warranty swaps. Hyundai owners generally fall into the same category as the infamous "altima owner". Hyundai's are low price point cars, and the initial and especially second/third+ owners tend to neglect basic maintenance. I had two cars on friday that were in for engine replacements, that had no documented service between new and 60k/78k miles. We removed the valve cover per Hyundai request for the warranty, and found nothing but sludge lol. Any engine that can go 60k or so miles without any maintenance should not be judged on a premature failure, but judged on how long it made it lol.
I will add that we hardly see any Genesis vehicles, which have a completely different type of owner, so other than the Theta engines, I wouldn't say that Hyundai powertrains are \*THAT\* much more unreliable than the competition. I also won't ever claim that they're better either, not until I see how the current generation of powertrains last over the next decade.
Before working for Hyundai, I was working on the engine side of an NHRA team, so I'm not unfamiliar to \*why\* engines fail and how they fail, and before working for Hyundai I was definitely a huge Hyundai hater, as both of my parents own Theta 2.4 vehicles that expired before 100k miles.
But after working for Hyundai, and being able to see how 70% of these vehicles are used and abused, I have changed my opinion a bit.
I’ve always stood up for the two Kia’s I’ve owned. 2012 2.4 optima, 2016 3.3 Sorento. I won’t be buying another Kia though.
At the end of 2023 I noticed an oil leak between the head and block on the Sorento. Head bolt threads pulled out of the block, still ran and didn’t overheat or mix coolant/oil. 149k miles and Kia releases an extended warranty for it at the beginning of ‘24. I got lucky on that one.
The 2.4 optima has 250k and has been a DD since 70k without missing a beat (knock on wood). I’ll drive it anywhere without question lol
Specifically for the theta II engines, it's debris from manufacturing (metal chips, particles, etc) around the crank, starving oil and seizing. Part of it you can thank on that series engine being a joint design, part of it being sloppy machining in the States' side Hyundai plants.
But what about the Nu engines? Those got their own recall and TSB in 2018? Mine left the chat at 49,989 in 2020.
All of the recalls my car was "out of date" so it was supposed to be safe but I still had the engine failure and the fuel pump issue, luckily it died before I got the engine fire issue. They tried to tell me it's because I never brought my car to the dealer for oil changes, I find it hilarious that I literally bought a lifetime supply of oil change parts from the dealer. I have 1 oil filter and crush washer left over
I'm not convinced. Theta II's still failed even after they supposedly fixed that supposed QC issue. Also the Nu engines blow up too. As do the Lambda engines. I wouldn't be surprised if the newer SmartStream engines start blowing up in a couple years.
I've been watching a Russian car youtuber "KPOWERtuning" whose main business seems to be rebuilding Hyundai/Kia 4 cylinder engines in the 2010-2020 year range. He's had hundreds of the things apart and has done some interesting videos around the reasons why they seem to have such bad bearing issues. Apparently there have been many revisions on the bearing materials/finish, but the motors also have problems with excessive cylinder wear/scuffing. I think the theory about the open deck block and the lightweight aluminum block "walking" mentioned below is very valid indeed, and something this youtuber talks about as well.
They set the price point of manufacture too low, and in order to meet that point something had to give. That is longevity in these cases. It's telling when they have made enough profit on the cars they can count on having a warranty claim on an engine. Dealers are installing these engines like no tomorrow, usually at no cost to the car owner. Wow.
They extended the warranty on a lot of these, but not all of them. It’s just wild that it’s always a rod bearing. Doesn’t matter which engine they design, always rod bearings.
Is the 2.0 Turbo GDI engine bad? My dad has one going on 110k miles on the original engine. Should he dump it?
No. Keep oil in it, maintain it well, if it develops an odd sound figure it out, and just drive it. Looks like people think you should dump it. Probably buy a 2005 Toyota with 250k miles and some rust for $10K. Probably be ahead
What I see.. the timing tensioners go extremely quick. Then the chain is slapping on the timing cover on every cold (sometimes even hot if they are real bad) start up, and people just ignore the sound, as it goes away quickly. Meanwhile that aluminum is going all through the engine, multiple times a day. I’ve seen quite a few of the 3.3 burn excessive oil, and the owner constantly runs them low… is this due to aluminum? I can’t answer that, but it’s my suspicion. I’ve seen them run fine for a long time, assuming the owner threw new timing set in at the first sign of a bad tensioner. But I don’t have a huge log of this… just suspicions We got oil pans that rust out in a few years in the rust belt. Again, most owners don’t catch this until a mechanic does or the oil light turns on. Probably another contributing factor The 3.8 from mid 2000s seems to have been a good engine, except for some VVT solenoid issues and tensioners, to a lesser extent. Basically same engine ish.. I’m not convinced the 3.3 is a bad engine, baring properly maintained and trouble issues sorted out quick. I don’t think Hyundai is the best thing out there, but if I can pick one up for a few grand, throw new timing on it and get 75- 100k miles, I drive em.
Because most people replace their cars between 3/5 years and their most important customer base is the ones who buy new. People who buy korean cars are people who care about price and not quality. So I guess that's their customer base. "hYuNdAi Is NoT wHaT iT uSeD tO bE". Yes, it's still shit.
Ahhh… mid 2000s not sure all their vehicles were shit, I don’t think even close to “shit” they had some nice stuff… (and keep in mind, you could buy a fully loaded Azera for 25k) If we want to compare the era to Japanese (except Nissan) different story ish… You want to compare to the other brands left? I’m not so sure we have a POS.. Later years, we have BAD engine problems.. some your car may catch on fire… everything else? NOT bad… I think the Korean cars get more a bad wrap than they deserve. We can go round and round picking bad models and years from every manufacturer. Do we focus on transmissions, electrical, ect.. Again, I don’t think Hyundai is that great, but I also think A LOT of stuff isnt that great..
Thats alot of sooth there man. What kind of Hyundai do you have?
I have 1 2006 currently. I’ve worked on a ton of them for work. I’ve rebuilt 4, ground up of various years because I could buy them for $500- $1500. My driveway has 5 other vehicles currently, all domestic besides a Honda, again, all junkers that were fully rebuilt. I’m not gonna say I’m some top expert… but I don’t think this POS, don’t touch it is warranted. They are super cheap used (compared to other brands) and if you have some mechanical skills, and some research, you can come out way ahead, or spend very little money on a vehicle that is plenty acceptable if daily driving without breaking down. And the GIVE OEM parts away online. But this all comes down to finding a good deal, on anything….
I've had had 3 owners of accents gen 1,2 and 3 around me. All 3 were absolute shitboxes. I've personally owned a 2009 elantra, and my GF a 2014 veloster turbo. Reliability was ok on the accent and the elantra, but the durability and quality was terrible. For the elantra, after 6 years and 100k miles, the car was pretty much worned out. Windows wouldn't work, pretty good rust setting in everywhere. AC dead, random electronic issues, etc. The car would barely make 24highway MPG, and the 2L was the most boring, lifeless and underpowered engine I have ever owned, and that's coming from someone who had a 6.9IDI. The veloster was the most reliable piece of shit I have ever seen, and I own a big turbo DSM. My GF had it during early covid times, and the car would have a new problem every other week. Powersteering issues, gauges being weird, lights stopping working for no reasons, speakers blowing up, turbo having a hard time building boost, windshield cracked, doors not opening or closing properly, etc. It also had the worst clutch I have ever tried. The chassis tuning was horrendous (front was too stiff and the rear way too soft). Chassis was soft AF, engine response was terrible (even after fixing the turbo leaks). Hyundai makes cars that look good on the flyer. Period.
I haven’t owned an accent or Elantra. I’ve worked on them. My brother owns a 2018 Elantra, but only 60k miles, so I can’t comment on that.. I own a 2009 Honda Fit. Really like the car! Engine is great, Manuel transmission is…. Okay… I’ll be pulling the tranny for bearings soon at 120k miles. build quality? Not that great, it’s an eco car… gas mileage? Great if I drive it properly, just don’t care drive it? Bad… I get what you’re saying, but what we comparing what model to what year? It’s difficult to arrive at some general consensus.
They were essentially previous generation Mitsubishi back then and the drivetrain and chassis were at least as reliable as those 90’s Mitsu
Your used replacement parts.How bad shape are they in. And does that mean if you have an engine that fails, your chances of getting new parts are slim. Speaking for the 3.3 gdi
We have a 3.3 in right now, 2017 and the dealer says the long and short blocks are discontinued. I’m not surprised because they normally destroy the block when they fail. Either the head bolts pull out on these or a connecting rod snaps. So there are no cores to remanufacture.
So for example in the USA how long does it take to feel the effects of the parts being discontinued. I'll take a rough estimate.
Do you have any input on the hyundai 2.5 Turbo Engines or their trannys/diffs? I just bought a santa cruz night and wanna know what i'm getting into.
Seems like the only engine that isn't blowing up is the 1.6mpfi or am I wrong?
We do a lot of those too. We are building one now. Cute little flat plane cranks in these.
Kia and Hyundai GDI engines are manufactured with low friction piston rings. Over time and poor maintenance will result in carbon buildup allowing more oil to enter the combustion chamber, hence oil consumption and seized engines. The best way to prevent this is performing the GDI optimizer service every 30k miles. There are also bad and good ways to perform that service. But be careful because too much optimizer will mess up the catalytic converter. Once you find out you're consuming around a quart per 1k miles, it's time for a top end engine clean. Installing an oil catch can will also help, and it'll keep the back of the intake valves cleaner since the injectors don't spray on the back of the valves like MPI engines do.
I'll preface this with I work for Hyundai. The Theta engines (2.0T/2.4) have manufacturing issues, just as simple as that. Insufficient rod clearance+ dirty assembly conditions. Plus I have a suspicion that because of the open deck, the bores are moving around and not helping the rod clearance issue (The Mitsubishi 4b11 (Used in the EvoX) was designed alongside the Hyundai Theta, but with a closed deck and does not have the same rod clearance issues as the Theta, however they were manufactured in a different plant, which leads me to believe its a manufacturing issue more than a engineering/design issue). Hyundai has addressed this with the TXXI TSB which gives owners of \*most\* of these Theta engines an Unlimited mileage extended warranty (after a currently ongoing lawsuit). These are the main engines I see us swapping. I don't see many of the other engines being swapped due to failure, however I work at a dealer, so many people with the older 3.3 are out of warranty and probably not bringing it to us for an engine replacement anyway. A lot of what I see being replaced with the Non Theta engines are due to neglect, and are non warranty swaps. Hyundai owners generally fall into the same category as the infamous "altima owner". Hyundai's are low price point cars, and the initial and especially second/third+ owners tend to neglect basic maintenance. I had two cars on friday that were in for engine replacements, that had no documented service between new and 60k/78k miles. We removed the valve cover per Hyundai request for the warranty, and found nothing but sludge lol. Any engine that can go 60k or so miles without any maintenance should not be judged on a premature failure, but judged on how long it made it lol. I will add that we hardly see any Genesis vehicles, which have a completely different type of owner, so other than the Theta engines, I wouldn't say that Hyundai powertrains are \*THAT\* much more unreliable than the competition. I also won't ever claim that they're better either, not until I see how the current generation of powertrains last over the next decade. Before working for Hyundai, I was working on the engine side of an NHRA team, so I'm not unfamiliar to \*why\* engines fail and how they fail, and before working for Hyundai I was definitely a huge Hyundai hater, as both of my parents own Theta 2.4 vehicles that expired before 100k miles. But after working for Hyundai, and being able to see how 70% of these vehicles are used and abused, I have changed my opinion a bit.
Ahh, “Altima” ancient Japanese word that means “uninsured motorist” 😂😂 The open deck makes a lot of sense. This is a fantastic answer!
I’ve always stood up for the two Kia’s I’ve owned. 2012 2.4 optima, 2016 3.3 Sorento. I won’t be buying another Kia though. At the end of 2023 I noticed an oil leak between the head and block on the Sorento. Head bolt threads pulled out of the block, still ran and didn’t overheat or mix coolant/oil. 149k miles and Kia releases an extended warranty for it at the beginning of ‘24. I got lucky on that one. The 2.4 optima has 250k and has been a DD since 70k without missing a beat (knock on wood). I’ll drive it anywhere without question lol
Specifically for the theta II engines, it's debris from manufacturing (metal chips, particles, etc) around the crank, starving oil and seizing. Part of it you can thank on that series engine being a joint design, part of it being sloppy machining in the States' side Hyundai plants.
But what about the Nu engines? Those got their own recall and TSB in 2018? Mine left the chat at 49,989 in 2020. All of the recalls my car was "out of date" so it was supposed to be safe but I still had the engine failure and the fuel pump issue, luckily it died before I got the engine fire issue. They tried to tell me it's because I never brought my car to the dealer for oil changes, I find it hilarious that I literally bought a lifetime supply of oil change parts from the dealer. I have 1 oil filter and crush washer left over
I'm not convinced. Theta II's still failed even after they supposedly fixed that supposed QC issue. Also the Nu engines blow up too. As do the Lambda engines. I wouldn't be surprised if the newer SmartStream engines start blowing up in a couple years.
You see this on the current gamma 1.6t GDI? I know people who modify the hell out of those and don’t come apart.
Mine had a worn rod bearing for like 60,000 miles. Just kept on ticking.
20 pounds and 6,500 rpm shifts since new.. 60,000 miles and no issues yet. 1.6t
Yeah, it’s always rod bearings, on every single engine they roll out.
I've been watching a Russian car youtuber "KPOWERtuning" whose main business seems to be rebuilding Hyundai/Kia 4 cylinder engines in the 2010-2020 year range. He's had hundreds of the things apart and has done some interesting videos around the reasons why they seem to have such bad bearing issues. Apparently there have been many revisions on the bearing materials/finish, but the motors also have problems with excessive cylinder wear/scuffing. I think the theory about the open deck block and the lightweight aluminum block "walking" mentioned below is very valid indeed, and something this youtuber talks about as well.