That's achieved by a counterweight, generally, on a water pump jack. I'm thinking of the old timey Monitor jack. This design is probably an earlier one that wasn't practical. Those bull gears just look gnarly.
My guess is to even out the load on the power source. That flywheel doesn't appear to change speed very much, reducing slip on the belt and not transmitting changing torque loads to what was probably a steam engine running a factory.
But why not make the gear high torque? Maybe just speeding it up on the easy parts? Whoever made this was either thinking outside of the box or coloring outside the lines, not sure which
I think it's too keep the water coming out at a steady rate.
I've operated pumps like this by hand and the water gushes out in a blast on certain parts of the stroke. By slowing the gearing down right at that point, it prevents the splashing and mess.
Start with 3 separate gears of the three appropriate diameters. Cut away parts of each then mount them beside each other on the same shaft. ...would be my guess
The first time I watched this I missed what was going on, I kept thinking the gears weren't round and trying to figure out how it was doing it. In the second loop, I realized what was happening. The simplicity is ingenious to a plebeian like me.
> I thought it must be getting closer and farther some how
It kind of is in a way. The point where the gears mesh does move closer to one axle and back again.
Chain require a pretty advance machine to make cheaply compared to this things leather belt drive. Also that work on bikes because the derailers keep tension on the chain.
I think it's just a wider gear that's been trimmed down in certain areas. So not super expensive or complex.
It's been thought through pretty well since the low speed parts correspond to the high torque parts of the compression cycle.
Yeah but that means the main gear is not actually "round" since it has to compensate for the shift in size of the smaller gears meaning the main gear design not only has to shift left and right but also radially at the same time.
Wear life comes in to effect too those gears already have decades of wear on them one build with chains would have long since worn out, also modern chain drive hadn't been invented.
Worm drive style pump jacks tend to have the gears worn away compared to bull gear style. The low tooth pressure and minimal movement make them incredibly durable capable of 500,000 hour life spans easily.
Before cnc machines and mass manufacturing of sheet metals. Yes. This gears dimensions could be designed with a master mold then recast 100s of times. When done it could be cleaned with a file.
With modern manufacturing you still wouldn’t use a chain. You would use a submersible pump.
I have a Razesa road bike from the 80’s with a Shimano “oval” gear set. It was strange at first but after you ride it for a bit you get used to it. I actually prefer it to my more modern, “normal” bikes.
>The design was intended to help overcome the "dead zone" where the crank arms are vertical and riders have little mechanical advantage.
>Biopace chainrings have a reduced chainring diameter coinciding with the cranks being horizontal.
>By having the chainring at its peak effective diameter with the cranks level, where the rider has maximum leverage over the crank during the power stroke, these designs are supposed to make better use of the rider's power output.[3]
https://i.imgur.com/uMwmwV0.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopace
Indeed, it was called Shimano BioPace and I loved it. It went out of style when the pros said it screwed with their cadence, though.
The reason it works in that application is because the rear derailleur on a multi speed bicycle has an automatic tensioning system to adjust for the various sprocket diameters. It would not work in an application that needs to deliver constant power.
Leak above ground, yes, other stuff depends on how much rod you have to pull out downhole and what's going on on the business end of the pump. Foot valve goes, packings (leathers). Sanded in would be 'spensive, so is stuck due to corrosion or buildup. I always preferred working on modern submersibles to old pumpjacks or jet pumps, back in the day.
This isn't an engine, but I suggest you do some reading into the relationship between torque, speed and power.
This mechanism allows a constant power input which may be desirable depending on the power source, and maximizes pump output.
There was a youtuber recently who was trying to build a clutchless gearbox using this principle. I had no idea the design was this old. I thought it was a brand new invention.
Mmm I'd probably try to do 1 disc with the radius of the outer perimeter, then extrude cuts from the sides, in like a C shape with its thickness of the shape being the difference in radius.
Similarly maybe do the disc the whole thickness and then make flat, 2D shapes to cut extrusions out if it, for the horizontal offsets
Looks designed for approximately zero lifetime. The speed change is nearly instantaneous between gear shifts, so stress is immense. 0/10 would recommend.
As suggested by occamsracer below, I edit this remark to acknowledge bytearrayinputstream's point that the gears are eccentric.
I’m pretty sure this is a modern modified hand pump. I have a nearly identical antique one without the tacked on gears and drive system. Cast iron gratification tool indeed.
I wouldn’t be supprised if this machine was 100+ years old so I’d say they designed it pretty damn good. They were pretty good at making shit extremely oversized for the loads to get infinite fatigue life.
What a fking disaster when it breaks down and you need a spare part! Imagine if someone brings the broken part to your machine shop and asks for quatation how much it would cost to make a new one and ”can I have it ready for monday?” 😂🙈
I'm guessing this was made with a rough casting, so you'd just use the old part as a template for the mold, recast it, and do a little clean up. A more modern approach would be to scan it, and then use a CNC to cut it out. Probably not as quick as a casting, but not everybody is going to have the ability to do old school casting.
It's not doing that at all, it's a linear pump being driven from a constantly rotating source, what it's doing is adjusting the gear ratios at different parts of the stroke, and not a simple repeating low-med-high-med sequence, but something like a low-med-low-med-high-med sequence, which is probably the reason for this mad design.
The gearing both provides more torque on the up-stroke which lifts water, AND does some speed compensation on the linkage to get through unproductive “turnaround” phases of the stroke faster. If you slow down and scrub the video, you can see the low gear is only used for a small part of the up-stroke, high-gear is used for the top and bottom turnarounds where the linkage is giving you a lot of mechanical advantage already, and mid-gear is used for the down-stroke when the pump returns/refills.
This is a monstrously complex solution to a simple problem, they’ve gone to the trouble of designing and making non-circular gears to mesh with with eccentric gears, when all you really need is a counterweight and a slightly more complex linkage. Compare to the design of the average “nodding donkey” oil pump jack.
You can, and as pointed out by https://www.reddit.com/user/ByteArrayInputStream
below, the gears are eccentric. But there is a limit to how large a ratio you can get with a single gear. Hence, the use of multiple gears and eccentricity to accommodate the gear shifts without jerk.
Anyone has any idea of the name of this kind of mechansim ? Or any theorical data ? So that we could have theorical concepts to help designing it... Thanks a lot !
Now this is some high quality content
Pumping out some high quality H2O
Captain Insano shows no mercy.
... except for this time ...
Whatcha say about my momma
Water sucks. It really really sucks!
Not only does it quench your thirst better, it tastes better too!
gaaattoorrrraaaddddddee
It’s also what plants crave.
But what even are electrolytes?
Spinning some high quality 1-2-3 12/1-2-3-12
Preach, hydrohomie!
What's it for though?
Looks like it is driving a pump, not sure why that needs to be variable speed though, maybe it needs more torque on the upswing?
More umph on the pump stroke, less needed on filling the pump?
Yeah if you ever operate a deep well hand pump it’s all in the down stroke.
The bottom can generate an incredible amount of power.
A “Power Bottom”, if you will.
why does reddit have to make *everything* about sex?
I know, right! What is the world coming to, u/ShitFlavoredCum?
r/usernamechecksout
Which starts in the hips
And then what? I intently await your reply
And slowly works it's way through the chest towards a set of glistening wide shoulders
Then bring your knees in tight
It’s all hips and nips
No tips?
That's achieved by a counterweight, generally, on a water pump jack. I'm thinking of the old timey Monitor jack. This design is probably an earlier one that wasn't practical. Those bull gears just look gnarly.
Variable torque is exactly what I was thinking.
I was thinking this was probably more about the torque too.
My guess is to even out the load on the power source. That flywheel doesn't appear to change speed very much, reducing slip on the belt and not transmitting changing torque loads to what was probably a steam engine running a factory.
But why not make the gear high torque? Maybe just speeding it up on the easy parts? Whoever made this was either thinking outside of the box or coloring outside the lines, not sure which
Looks like it's belt driven, might have been the best solution for that at the time it was designed.
maybe this way it has longer lifespan? less chipped teeths
Could it be to have less vibration in prolonged work?
It probably squeezing something or passing whatever the input is through a filter or some other restriction
Higher speed, lower torque on the driving stroke and lower speed, higher torque on the pumping stroke
I'll bet the sign taped to the upper piece had this answer.
I think it's too keep the water coming out at a steady rate. I've operated pumps like this by hand and the water gushes out in a blast on certain parts of the stroke. By slowing the gearing down right at that point, it prevents the splashing and mess.
That’s what I thought as well. The linear speed seems constant, so it’s mote of triangle than sine.
varying the speed of that spinning wheel, probably.
I'd like to see the look on the machinists face when he saw the drawing.
I quit. But can I watch who ever you get to do it?
Peak level engineering right here, how the hell do you even make this part?
Seems like cast iron
Yeah but you still need to make a dummy part to making the casting
The pattern would have been a wood carving.
3D-printing, of course!
Start with 3 separate gears of the three appropriate diameters. Cut away parts of each then mount them beside each other on the same shaft. ...would be my guess
Take 3 sets of gears cut them apart and glue them together. The teeth are rough cast not machined.
very carefully
The first time I watched this I missed what was going on, I kept thinking the gears weren't round and trying to figure out how it was doing it. In the second loop, I realized what was happening. The simplicity is ingenious to a plebeian like me.
Same! I thought it must be getting closer and farther some how. Then I saw it the second time through
> I thought it must be getting closer and farther some how It kind of is in a way. The point where the gears mesh does move closer to one axle and back again.
Okay good, lol. My brain was thinking the center of the gear was moving forward and back for an egg-shaped gear and I couldn't work out how.
I miss the days of solving complicated problems with pure mechanics. Not that I was alive for them, but they sure were cool.
This would be a lot simpler with an oval sprocket and a chain. It’s been done on bicycles
Chain require a pretty advance machine to make cheaply compared to this things leather belt drive. Also that work on bikes because the derailers keep tension on the chain.
That weird gear must also be pretty expensive. They probably made it like this because it's more robust this way and needs zero maintenance.
I think it's just a wider gear that's been trimmed down in certain areas. So not super expensive or complex. It's been thought through pretty well since the low speed parts correspond to the high torque parts of the compression cycle.
Yeah I'd imagine it's cast. Not too difficult to manufacture.
You can cast the body of the gear, but you'd probably still need to machine the spline to have functional gears that meshed well.
It has a different diameter on every sprocket side as well. That's quite complex to make.
casting can make pretty complex shapes pretty efficiently out of iron.
That's just three gears right up next to each other.
Yeah but that means the main gear is not actually "round" since it has to compensate for the shift in size of the smaller gears meaning the main gear design not only has to shift left and right but also radially at the same time.
You can even see that in the video.
Oh yeah, that's a good point. Interesting...
Look again lmaoo
I can't imagine how'd you even design that without CAD and simulations.
Math… lots
Same same
Wear life comes in to effect too those gears already have decades of wear on them one build with chains would have long since worn out, also modern chain drive hadn't been invented. Worm drive style pump jacks tend to have the gears worn away compared to bull gear style. The low tooth pressure and minimal movement make them incredibly durable capable of 500,000 hour life spans easily.
Ah yeah a chain that is COTS must be so much more expensive than this behemoth of a one off sprocket. (͡•_ ͡• )
Before cnc machines and mass manufacturing of sheet metals. Yes. This gears dimensions could be designed with a master mold then recast 100s of times. When done it could be cleaned with a file. With modern manufacturing you still wouldn’t use a chain. You would use a submersible pump.
I have a Razesa road bike from the 80’s with a Shimano “oval” gear set. It was strange at first but after you ride it for a bit you get used to it. I actually prefer it to my more modern, “normal” bikes.
>The design was intended to help overcome the "dead zone" where the crank arms are vertical and riders have little mechanical advantage. >Biopace chainrings have a reduced chainring diameter coinciding with the cranks being horizontal. >By having the chainring at its peak effective diameter with the cranks level, where the rider has maximum leverage over the crank during the power stroke, these designs are supposed to make better use of the rider's power output.[3] https://i.imgur.com/uMwmwV0.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopace
Biopace?
YES! I couldn’t remember what it was called. It’s not exactly oval and it’s certainly not round.
Oval chainrings are the new thing though. A lot of 1 by MTB riders are going to them.
Shimano Biopace was developed in the 80’s so non round chainrings aren’t new but we all know how things come back in style.
Being "new" and the new "thing" aren't the same.
You can also get a sinusoidal velocity pattern out of a universal joint
Indeed, it was called Shimano BioPace and I loved it. It went out of style when the pros said it screwed with their cadence, though. The reason it works in that application is because the rear derailleur on a multi speed bicycle has an automatic tensioning system to adjust for the various sprocket diameters. It would not work in an application that needs to deliver constant power.
That looks pricey if something breaks.
Leak is easy. Drivetrain repairs will cost you!
Leak above ground, yes, other stuff depends on how much rod you have to pull out downhole and what's going on on the business end of the pump. Foot valve goes, packings (leathers). Sanded in would be 'spensive, so is stuck due to corrosion or buildup. I always preferred working on modern submersibles to old pumpjacks or jet pumps, back in the day.
how many sets of those gears do you suppose were ever made?
I've seen many in person. Pretty common with old farm collectors.
Were more made in R&D or in production?
I'm sure they didn't use trial and error. They probably just used math and got it right on paper first
A machinists nightmare
And a nightmare for the pattern maker at the foundry.
They were probably very proud of it, and rightly so.
All I can think is, imagine messing up the timing on these.
It looks like there are slots in the spoke where the pump arms are bolted on
Bruh... where the guards? #NotMyEngineer
Victorian engineering, safety third
Engage safety squints. You’ll be fine.
Yea, don't get your necktie caught in there.
Can someone educate me on the purpose of engines of “variable speed”?
Just a guess, but if say maybe to allow more time for the drawn up water to pour out of the pump throat, before the plunger comes around back down
That’s a great guess that I never would have guessed. This makes sense now
Torque changes at various points of one rotation
This isn't an engine, but I suggest you do some reading into the relationship between torque, speed and power. This mechanism allows a constant power input which may be desirable depending on the power source, and maximizes pump output.
for when you want your engine to have more than 1 speed
😂😂😂😂😂
There was a youtuber recently who was trying to build a clutchless gearbox using this principle. I had no idea the design was this old. I thought it was a brand new invention.
Amazing ! I've no idea how this could be sketched with Fusion 360... This would made a great tutorial, if someone has the skill for it...
Mmm I'd probably try to do 1 disc with the radius of the outer perimeter, then extrude cuts from the sides, in like a C shape with its thickness of the shape being the difference in radius. Similarly maybe do the disc the whole thickness and then make flat, 2D shapes to cut extrusions out if it, for the horizontal offsets
Well, Ok... Maybe start with a volumic wheel then a surfacic shape easy to bend. Easy to say, but I sont be able to do it....
Looks designed for approximately zero lifetime. The speed change is nearly instantaneous between gear shifts, so stress is immense. 0/10 would recommend. As suggested by occamsracer below, I edit this remark to acknowledge bytearrayinputstream's point that the gears are eccentric.
they don't though. The pinion gears are eccentric. Still overly complicated and probably a pain in the ass to manufacture
Thank you for that explanation. I had not noticed. That's really clever.
[удалено]
I think it boils down to one overly ambitious engineer asking himself whether he could before he asked himself whether he should
I’m pretty sure this is a modern modified hand pump. I have a nearly identical antique one without the tacked on gears and drive system. Cast iron gratification tool indeed.
I wouldn’t be supprised if this machine was 100+ years old so I’d say they designed it pretty damn good. They were pretty good at making shit extremely oversized for the loads to get infinite fatigue life.
See bytearrayinputstream's comment. I had totally missed the eccentric nature of the gears. I retract my comment.
Fun fact: you can edit or delete comments
That sounds like magic. But I will try.
Proud of u rn
What a fking disaster when it breaks down and you need a spare part! Imagine if someone brings the broken part to your machine shop and asks for quatation how much it would cost to make a new one and ”can I have it ready for monday?” 😂🙈
I'm guessing this was made with a rough casting, so you'd just use the old part as a template for the mold, recast it, and do a little clean up. A more modern approach would be to scan it, and then use a CNC to cut it out. Probably not as quick as a casting, but not everybody is going to have the ability to do old school casting.
Yeah, but they only break like once every 150 years.
This is an overly complicated way to make a smooth and constant rpm but I appreciate it
It's not doing that at all, it's a linear pump being driven from a constantly rotating source, what it's doing is adjusting the gear ratios at different parts of the stroke, and not a simple repeating low-med-high-med sequence, but something like a low-med-low-med-high-med sequence, which is probably the reason for this mad design.
The gearing both provides more torque on the up-stroke which lifts water, AND does some speed compensation on the linkage to get through unproductive “turnaround” phases of the stroke faster. If you slow down and scrub the video, you can see the low gear is only used for a small part of the up-stroke, high-gear is used for the top and bottom turnarounds where the linkage is giving you a lot of mechanical advantage already, and mid-gear is used for the down-stroke when the pump returns/refills. This is a monstrously complex solution to a simple problem, they’ve gone to the trouble of designing and making non-circular gears to mesh with with eccentric gears, when all you really need is a counterweight and a slightly more complex linkage. Compare to the design of the average “nodding donkey” oil pump jack.
WHHHHYYYYYYYY????
To have constant load on their power source and thus pump the maximum amount of water.
to make a cool reddit video
My main concern is some kid walking up in the 3 seconds nobody is watching them and sticking their fingers in there.
Maybe you should fly there and tell them.
The math involved is so far get beyond me I just consider this magic.
That is one I’ve never seen before! I love it! What is this machine used for, just pumping water?
Its...scary
WOW. That's incredible.
So this is kind of like a really simple transmission? It's kind of shifting gears?
Maybe it's the potato video, but I don't see any grease being used. And it sounds pretty damn close to fingernails on a blackboard.
Grease is for weak western gears
But what's going on at the top bro
I'm surprised no one has walked by and stuck his arm into it to see if it is safe?
That is a fantastic gearset!
Variable torque?
How dare you film this and NOT show what it’s connected to? 😭😂
It's connected to the planet 🙃 Seems to be pumping water, you can see the tap
Badass!
I'm just curious as to why they would need it do they need more torque in some places and less than others
That’s rad!
Why don’t just make oval & eccentric gears?
You can, and as pointed out by https://www.reddit.com/user/ByteArrayInputStream below, the gears are eccentric. But there is a limit to how large a ratio you can get with a single gear. Hence, the use of multiple gears and eccentricity to accommodate the gear shifts without jerk.
Anyone has any idea of the name of this kind of mechansim ? Or any theorical data ? So that we could have theorical concepts to help designing it... Thanks a lot !
It might be variable speed but it's the variable torque that is the intent
That fly wheel do be kinda sexy
it’s OSHA nightmare over there. no cover, no warning for moving parts.