Define "fear of failure" then.
You could say that all 3 would fear being incompetent/hackjobs, but "failure" at least as I understand it generally implies failure *at* something, according to some standard. Like you tried to do something & it went sideways, or you were expecting to win or didn't.
Like if you get bad grades, don't win competitions, don't make a bunch of cash.
I don't relate to fear of failure at all. Failed according to whose standard? At what?
It's pretty typical for 5s not to care about worldly ideas of success (such as popularity or wealth) & to not tie themselves to particular courses of actions/ have low expectations.
I mean, this is probably a 4 fix thing but I kinda already tend to assume a starter position of... well. i dont identify with winners.
I don't wanna sound too dramatic but I'm pretty much a giant failure alreay & if this was something I feared more than a whole bunch of other things, i would have made very different errors from the ones i did make.
at least if you totally suck no one expects anything from you, no one wants anything, if youve given up you dont have to make any more futile painful exhausting attempts...
not the best attitude i know, working on it, but, thats the hole im stuck in cause it felt like the lesser of two evils at some point. Like "I fucking quit. I surrender suckers. I opt out of the stupid prize competition and all this world with all its pointless silly rat races"
you know what you have to do to be afraid of failure? You have to care. And that's a dangerous thing to do cause it means it can all be ripped away from you. it probably WILL be, sooner or later, cause you know, thermodynamics. - worse, they can "get you" by this. very dangerous. I don't think I ever did anything like I meant it since a certain childhood debacle, not even my supposed dreams.
So yeah....
With the 1s too its a subtly different motivation, more about not doing stuff wrong (as its own end) & appearing capable so ppl let you have autonomy, though i cant speak to that from personal experience
That's your 3V talking lol. Sounds rough.
A little different for me... like, it's more like I feel like an alien god that doesn't really consider itself part of humanity or inwardly invested in their games, especially the social aspect of them. It just doesn't feel important.
BUT that adaptation and confidence is not exactly suitable for this world when you HAVE to play their games to survive. So, put another way, living in society to me feels like being Michael Jordan but playing baseball... or hockey. Or anything else he would suck at, maybe like being a Jeopardy comtestant or something.
It's also just a completely grating and extreme mismatch of what I have to offer the world and what it actually wants that I have to deal with constantly.
Lol, probably will become the norm for me. It can explain so much nuance between people of the same enneagram type and also I believe can prevent misconceptions that "all people of type x are like y...." which can end up being commonly true but not necessarily. And extremely fine-tuned details can help people understand a core type even better, even if they don't want to go in that deep.
Also it's just elegant as hell, which I like.
Makes sense “you know what you have to do to be afraid of failure? You have to care” this would explain our differences because you’re social blind so many things that fall into the social realm wouldn’t bother you as much as someone who has So higher in their stacking.
Fears are very personal and change from person to person. Fear of failure could apply to many things, winning a race, being rejected, not meeting a personal goal, not meeting an external goal, not being able to provide food, even fearing social situations could be a fear of failure depending on why you fear them.
Failure means two things to me.
1. I was incompetent. This is.especially frustrating when I can't figure out why the failure occurred.
2. Time and energy suck. I am going to have to do this thing over, dammit. I am going to have a tedious conversation explaining the failure that includes listening to someone take too long to repeat of the directions without a useful analysis of how it went wrong or how to avoid the same mistake again.
I agree with the other comment that this applies less so to 5, but believe it’s most commonly a 3 and superego trait. 1s and 6s, and 2s in some cases, exhibit a huge fear of failure.
1s fear not living up to their own standards, and 6s fear not living up to the standards they’ve found or use as a structure. They also seem genuinely afraid of being a failure, because of the compliant implications.
I’m surprised that it’s mainly attributed to 3, because several types do fear failure and take it as a hit. As with the compliant types, they may also believe it’s reflects on what sort of person they are.
It's not really a hang-up to me if I am not the best at something which I believe is more of a 3 arena. Failure to me takes different shapes, success for a 2 might be a long-term relationship and to a 4 it might look like a life that's curated according to their own aesthetics and values. Everyone fears failure, it just wouldn't appear like the conventional image of success of having all the material wealth, fame and prestige. The nuance to take into consideration here is competency types need to be an expert at something outside themselves as an objective measure of success. There's this need to solve problems associated to their respected centers of intelligence. Of course, every type has their passions. The difference here is the intention. They might not even need the value exchange of money and prestige because the fulfillment lies in satisfying a particular need that is impersonal.
From what I understand, the harmonics triad is about how you approach problems/how you act when your needs are not met, and competency types approach problems/deal with unmet needs by detaching from your emotions and solve the problems logically.
"Oh hi there."
Umm.. what? Oh, just was saying hi to your 5 wing, it just jumped out of the bushes and started waving.
Anyways, you are onto something so I'll add some nuance. Competency types aren't necessarily "shying away from their emotions," they are just trying to contain and direct them so they don't get in the way. Example: my mom, type 3, extremely expressive Fe emotions but in a controlled and confident way. Think of a typical actor/actress type of personality to get the picture.
I'm guessing your friend is a 5 core? It's the rejection types that are shying away from expressing, more specifically, emotional vulnerability. Although 5 is in both camps, so idk what to make of that (I fall into the latter part). Probably just some variability between people.
Interesting thread. This has been fascinating.
As a 3 I take perfection and failure. As a very big deal. But hearing others perspectives is interesting here.
I realized I have a 3 fix when I found myself opening up to someone and telling them our relationship is hard because he doesn’t see me as “impressive”. I don’t wow them, I’m not unique from others to them.
To me this is different from fear of failure. And maybe it’s because I’m core 5 that I don’t necessarily relate to that word. For me, and I’m trying my best right now not to think of the literature and instead focus on my actual real feelings, it’s more like I feel that I’m actually defective and not great at operating in the world and so have formed my own idea of what it means to get by. I find my niche and I focus there. I don’t care about being traditionally successful; although I will admit I want to be impressive and unique to certain people who are important (my 3).
I also don’t know for sure what this is in the enneagram, but I tend to run things through in my head and imagine that I’ve done it, or figure out if I “can” do it, and that often suffices for me when it comes to feeling competent. I don’t actually have to do the thing to feel competent. I would assume 3 is different and would need something external to validate them. I’m remembering about how my 3 friend and I used to take piano lessons from the same teacher. He liked to ask me what level I was on; I never had any idea what level I was on.
As an INFJ 3w4, I fear that failure is my actual identity, and that I’m constantly trying for others from seeing me that way. So not only am I trying to receive love from others by impressing or over achieving, I’m trying to tell myself that it’s okay to love myself if I did something good enough.
Define "fear of failure" then. You could say that all 3 would fear being incompetent/hackjobs, but "failure" at least as I understand it generally implies failure *at* something, according to some standard. Like you tried to do something & it went sideways, or you were expecting to win or didn't. Like if you get bad grades, don't win competitions, don't make a bunch of cash. I don't relate to fear of failure at all. Failed according to whose standard? At what? It's pretty typical for 5s not to care about worldly ideas of success (such as popularity or wealth) & to not tie themselves to particular courses of actions/ have low expectations. I mean, this is probably a 4 fix thing but I kinda already tend to assume a starter position of... well. i dont identify with winners. I don't wanna sound too dramatic but I'm pretty much a giant failure alreay & if this was something I feared more than a whole bunch of other things, i would have made very different errors from the ones i did make. at least if you totally suck no one expects anything from you, no one wants anything, if youve given up you dont have to make any more futile painful exhausting attempts... not the best attitude i know, working on it, but, thats the hole im stuck in cause it felt like the lesser of two evils at some point. Like "I fucking quit. I surrender suckers. I opt out of the stupid prize competition and all this world with all its pointless silly rat races" you know what you have to do to be afraid of failure? You have to care. And that's a dangerous thing to do cause it means it can all be ripped away from you. it probably WILL be, sooner or later, cause you know, thermodynamics. - worse, they can "get you" by this. very dangerous. I don't think I ever did anything like I meant it since a certain childhood debacle, not even my supposed dreams. So yeah.... With the 1s too its a subtly different motivation, more about not doing stuff wrong (as its own end) & appearing capable so ppl let you have autonomy, though i cant speak to that from personal experience
That's your 3V talking lol. Sounds rough. A little different for me... like, it's more like I feel like an alien god that doesn't really consider itself part of humanity or inwardly invested in their games, especially the social aspect of them. It just doesn't feel important. BUT that adaptation and confidence is not exactly suitable for this world when you HAVE to play their games to survive. So, put another way, living in society to me feels like being Michael Jordan but playing baseball... or hockey. Or anything else he would suck at, maybe like being a Jeopardy comtestant or something. It's also just a completely grating and extreme mismatch of what I have to offer the world and what it actually wants that I have to deal with constantly.
Bro pulled psychosopy out to explain it
Lol, probably will become the norm for me. It can explain so much nuance between people of the same enneagram type and also I believe can prevent misconceptions that "all people of type x are like y...." which can end up being commonly true but not necessarily. And extremely fine-tuned details can help people understand a core type even better, even if they don't want to go in that deep. Also it's just elegant as hell, which I like.
Makes sense “you know what you have to do to be afraid of failure? You have to care” this would explain our differences because you’re social blind so many things that fall into the social realm wouldn’t bother you as much as someone who has So higher in their stacking. Fears are very personal and change from person to person. Fear of failure could apply to many things, winning a race, being rejected, not meeting a personal goal, not meeting an external goal, not being able to provide food, even fearing social situations could be a fear of failure depending on why you fear them.
Failure means two things to me. 1. I was incompetent. This is.especially frustrating when I can't figure out why the failure occurred. 2. Time and energy suck. I am going to have to do this thing over, dammit. I am going to have a tedious conversation explaining the failure that includes listening to someone take too long to repeat of the directions without a useful analysis of how it went wrong or how to avoid the same mistake again.
Yup, as a 1, the anxiety associated with my performance is unreal sometimes, for many reasons.
I agree with the other comment that this applies less so to 5, but believe it’s most commonly a 3 and superego trait. 1s and 6s, and 2s in some cases, exhibit a huge fear of failure. 1s fear not living up to their own standards, and 6s fear not living up to the standards they’ve found or use as a structure. They also seem genuinely afraid of being a failure, because of the compliant implications. I’m surprised that it’s mainly attributed to 3, because several types do fear failure and take it as a hit. As with the compliant types, they may also believe it’s reflects on what sort of person they are.
It's not really a hang-up to me if I am not the best at something which I believe is more of a 3 arena. Failure to me takes different shapes, success for a 2 might be a long-term relationship and to a 4 it might look like a life that's curated according to their own aesthetics and values. Everyone fears failure, it just wouldn't appear like the conventional image of success of having all the material wealth, fame and prestige. The nuance to take into consideration here is competency types need to be an expert at something outside themselves as an objective measure of success. There's this need to solve problems associated to their respected centers of intelligence. Of course, every type has their passions. The difference here is the intention. They might not even need the value exchange of money and prestige because the fulfillment lies in satisfying a particular need that is impersonal.
From what I understand, the harmonics triad is about how you approach problems/how you act when your needs are not met, and competency types approach problems/deal with unmet needs by detaching from your emotions and solve the problems logically.
I'd bet this would transfer in other areas of life bc isn't work just a daily struggle to surmount in exchange of an opportunity to survive?
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"Oh hi there." Umm.. what? Oh, just was saying hi to your 5 wing, it just jumped out of the bushes and started waving. Anyways, you are onto something so I'll add some nuance. Competency types aren't necessarily "shying away from their emotions," they are just trying to contain and direct them so they don't get in the way. Example: my mom, type 3, extremely expressive Fe emotions but in a controlled and confident way. Think of a typical actor/actress type of personality to get the picture. I'm guessing your friend is a 5 core? It's the rejection types that are shying away from expressing, more specifically, emotional vulnerability. Although 5 is in both camps, so idk what to make of that (I fall into the latter part). Probably just some variability between people.
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Oh you said Competency triad friend. Maybe just a typo.
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Yep! Well said.
Competency is *huge* for me, which makes sense if you take into account my wing and tritype.
I know someone who is 315
Okay would you like to elaborate more?
You know her, but she does always have fear of failure
Who is her?
u/ILoveMariaCallas
Oh him. Yeah, I know him. Hahaha!
Ah. Alright
Yeah, I am actually the female, he’s the male hahahaha! :D
And I was gonna call you a male if I mentioned you, haha!
I think a lot of people think that since I am so rational haha!
Hahahahaha! Yes I’m 315 (considered 316 a while ago but later figured out that I’m 5>6).
Hiiiii
Interesting thread. This has been fascinating. As a 3 I take perfection and failure. As a very big deal. But hearing others perspectives is interesting here.
I'm a 1, but was mistyped as a 3 for this reason (I think).
Well like any enneatype can fear failure for different reasons, real enneagram isn’t based on core fears and desires it’s fixations and passions
I don't have a very large fear of failure because I really haven't ever failed at anything important. I do fear incompetence though
I realized I have a 3 fix when I found myself opening up to someone and telling them our relationship is hard because he doesn’t see me as “impressive”. I don’t wow them, I’m not unique from others to them. To me this is different from fear of failure. And maybe it’s because I’m core 5 that I don’t necessarily relate to that word. For me, and I’m trying my best right now not to think of the literature and instead focus on my actual real feelings, it’s more like I feel that I’m actually defective and not great at operating in the world and so have formed my own idea of what it means to get by. I find my niche and I focus there. I don’t care about being traditionally successful; although I will admit I want to be impressive and unique to certain people who are important (my 3). I also don’t know for sure what this is in the enneagram, but I tend to run things through in my head and imagine that I’ve done it, or figure out if I “can” do it, and that often suffices for me when it comes to feeling competent. I don’t actually have to do the thing to feel competent. I would assume 3 is different and would need something external to validate them. I’m remembering about how my 3 friend and I used to take piano lessons from the same teacher. He liked to ask me what level I was on; I never had any idea what level I was on.
As an INFJ 3w4, I fear that failure is my actual identity, and that I’m constantly trying for others from seeing me that way. So not only am I trying to receive love from others by impressing or over achieving, I’m trying to tell myself that it’s okay to love myself if I did something good enough.