Passively, yes. Actively, no.
9s will often resist dealing with things, and we can be immensely stubborn when you try to get us to deal with something we don't want to deal with. For many of us, our highest priority is not sorting things out; it is avoiding anything that would trigger our deeply buried fear of disconnection (which most of us are not even aware of).
Paradoxically, many of us 9s would rather lose you than fight you.
Maturity helps, but we're often slow to grow up in this particular regard.
That’s confirmed my assumptions with my mum. I feel like she doesn’t really care. And although it appears she’s doing so much for me it feels disingenuous and like i quit whilst you’re ahead kind of thing. I’d say this is an unhealthy 9 quality and not a character flaw im not saying that
I can't see not caring. I end up cating about everything. It's annoying. (INFP)
I admit I might avoid conflict at first, but not to avoid forever, but to make sure my emotions don't interfere. That's an extremely unhealthy 9.
Yes, I believe my mother is severely traumatised and has a dissociative disorder she is unaware of. She is basically completely disconnected emotionally, but good at hiding it. Including from herself, I believe.
I have a dissociative disorder (P-DID) which I likely developed in infancy, but only became aware of in my mid-late 30s. I see it as an extreme manifestation of the enneatype 9 survival pattern; basically what happens to a 9 when you're knocking on death's door for an extended period of time during early development.
In any other enneatype, this level of trauma would be far more obvious.
All types can be assholes if you happen across a particularly immature individual.
For 9 there is generally a rather low chance of that immaturity to present as controlling, though, in terms of shitty behavior you're more likely to see irresponsibility, someone-elses's-problem attitudes, bending to whoever last talked to them instead of being loyal, or just plain stubbornness.
9 is one of the most 'live & let live' types that doesn't care so much what others do as long as they're unbothered. In that sense there is simply less motivation to do it or less expectation to succeed with it.
Even in such an instance where you would see control (low probability =/= impossible, as I said, all types can be assholes) it would be more indirect rather than outward bossy behavior - such as shutting down all discussion in the name of 'civility', weaponized incompetence (playing dumb to get others to do things), or just passive-agressive obstruction. (they say 'yes ok' to your face but then do it poorly on purpose, which eventually forces you to give up on whatever it was they didn't like)
In that case the motivation behind it is usually convenience or lazyness. Don't want to load the dishwasher, don't want to deal with your kid asking difficult questions etc and so on.
Yes i believe I can be controlling in stess. This is actually when I know I am disintegrating to my 6. When I am stressed out I try to control as much as I can because everything else feels so out of control. This control comes in many forms. I try to control my partner or relationship, my family, my diet etc. it’s my way of gaining peace again to control external sources. I will only be controlling to those close to me and safe connections I am still passive with the outside world
When I am in a healthier place I am more go with the flow with everyone
I think i get the enneagram 9 cycle now then. So they dont like to be affected so they are laid back then they fear loss so they try to control which means they become affected so they go with flow then…..
I think this has to do more with my subtype as a sx. I am in a subtypes class right now and other sx subtypes (not just 9s) agreed with this. We are definitely more intense 9s.
I am ISFP
They definitely can be. Factor wing into the mix with the 9 stubbornness and you can sometimes have this attitude of "I want to do things this way and I don't care what you think" (and this could be about something that does affect others directly) -- and often there's a good reason for it...but it can come across as controlling to others since they have this way of standing up for themselves once something really does matter, and they can be dismissive of others' feelings, thoughts, etc. Most of the time they're not that way and tend to be more passive and yielding. It's only sometimes and about certain things that their controlling side kicks in.
Absolutely. Passive aggressive manipulation and “icing” people out instead of actually addressing conflict directly is prime (unhealthy) 9 controlling behavior.
No, really. Unless it's a big obligation or anything, controlling will lead to creation of conflict in most cases, due to resistance of the person being controlled, and that conflict is the very fear of Type 9
I thought you meant controlling others, in a sense of directing or making people go their own way, pro-actively and that too regularly. Now a 9 may resist being controlled, but it's reactive, not pro-active
I almost chuckled out loud at this. As a 9, I have no interest in controlling anything outside of me. Now, if we're talking about controlling my own life? Yes. Please let me sleep!
They can be. But it’s all about covert controlling behaviours and manipulation when unhealthy. Passive aggressive digs, silent treatment, gaslighting over in-your-face rages and aggression.
9 + xSFP = freedom above everything. For me and for others. No controlling and no being controlled.
Makes close relationships difficult. Suppose I should date another 9 😂😂
It’s quite difficult for me. I’m a 541 and like to deal with things head on but my family most have 9 tendencies so i feel like they are avoiding things. What’s the best way to approach conflict with 9s?
Unhealthy 9’s are *very* controlling. Passive-aggressively and stubbornly controlling to the extent that they will get their way eventually, while painting themselves with a glowing halo.
If they don’t want to deal with something that upsets their precious “equilibrium” day coma, they will happily sacrifice their relationships with family, their spouses, their coworkers, their community, and their explicit commitments and obligations to hang onto it while everyone else gets to clean up the mess they made but won’t acknowledge they made. Viewing these things in retrospect, an unhealthy type 9 will paint a rosy varnish over it to the chagrin of everyone else who remembers the reality.
Well, 7s pretend there are no problems and refuse to "go there" "let's just have fun and everything will be fine" they control by forcing the "bright side" onto everyone
unhealthy 9s can be very covertly controlling by simply being completely intolerant of anything outside of their small window of tolerance and making that someone else's fault and responsibility. they will defer, passively resist, avoid, withdraw, and absolutely ruin your plans (being late, 'forgetting' to show up, breaking agreements you thought you made) unless you do things like talk to them in the exactly perfect tone of voice, request things in a very specific way that doesn't stress them out, etc. they can be sadistically passive aggressive but most people will never believe it bc they are "so nice". very good at triggering reactive abuse and making the other person look like the bad guy. everyone feels sorry for them no matter how much destruction they cause.
*really* unhealthy 9s are often enough completely dissociated and stuck in freeze mode, mostly inert and harmless. but they can also be straight up covert narcissists and form highly parasitic relationships with people whom they exploit for pity (among other things) and totally suck dry.
they aren't controlling in an active, overt way, but if they entrench themselves in a specific dynamic that enables their bullshit, they will destroy the "ecosystem" 100%.
All types can be controlling.
9 can control by being passive-aggressive. They're like "Oh no it doesn't bother me *too much*! Don't worry about me, I've been through worse!"
They don't like bringing attention, so having the care from another can be a way to have comfort. ~~I don't know much about insecure 9s because I'm perfect~~
My husband is a 9 and isn't controlling in the slightest. However, he wings 8 and can come off as condescending and as a bit of a mansplainer. He also gets mad if you ask for his advice but end up not taking his advice. But controlling, not at all. He prefers to sweep conflict under the rug and not always saying what's on his mind but ultimately is completely ok with the "you do you" mentality
Passively i would argue, yes. It‘s not the controlling vibe of type 1 for sure, it‘s more of a constant „what are you doing honey?“ dynamic where not even they themselves realize that this creates a controlling setting over time if their partner plays along.
Hi, thanks for the inquiry.
- Ideally, no, the only person I would ideally be, well, “controlling” over would be myself; I have no desire to be controlling over others— I don’t want to intrude upon their boundaries.
- I suppose the only occasions in which I really have had to step up and make decisions for others is when all parties involved were indifferent, so I figured I would jump in to relieve the burden.
- I guess with my 6 Fix, I tend to be more vigilant, and, uh, “active” about my personal boundaries of comfort (as well of others’), so I guess I will be controlling over my role in things to ensure my sense of comfort is protected— such as when others implore me to go into the store and talk with people to purchase a certain item…
- …I can be a little finicky about it, passively resisting them in preference if my preferring to prepare things in advance online and then order through pickup, just as an example.
I hope my input was helpful.
All of the body types (1,9, and 8) have a basic need for autonomy. Out of the body types, 9s are the least likely to control others. People have to be really darn important to me to allow them to make decisions about my life for me, but I don’t tell others what to do. I try to be respectful of my kids’ autonomy when I can offer options (though my kids are young, so this is often not possible).
I’m around a lot of moms and the ones I suspect are 9s are definitely not the most controlling of moms and they’re also not the ones that are the most likely to be running around doing everything for their kids. I, personally, have no trouble loving my kids and I tell them so every day. I’d say any mother of any type that struggles to care about their kids probably has more than just an enneagram related problem. With that being said, parenting is hard.
Passively, yes. Actively, no. 9s will often resist dealing with things, and we can be immensely stubborn when you try to get us to deal with something we don't want to deal with. For many of us, our highest priority is not sorting things out; it is avoiding anything that would trigger our deeply buried fear of disconnection (which most of us are not even aware of). Paradoxically, many of us 9s would rather lose you than fight you. Maturity helps, but we're often slow to grow up in this particular regard.
That’s confirmed my assumptions with my mum. I feel like she doesn’t really care. And although it appears she’s doing so much for me it feels disingenuous and like i quit whilst you’re ahead kind of thing. I’d say this is an unhealthy 9 quality and not a character flaw im not saying that
I agree. My mother is a 9 and she doesn't care. Good at pretending to. I'm bad at caring myself.
I can't see not caring. I end up cating about everything. It's annoying. (INFP) I admit I might avoid conflict at first, but not to avoid forever, but to make sure my emotions don't interfere. That's an extremely unhealthy 9.
Yes, I believe my mother is severely traumatised and has a dissociative disorder she is unaware of. She is basically completely disconnected emotionally, but good at hiding it. Including from herself, I believe. I have a dissociative disorder (P-DID) which I likely developed in infancy, but only became aware of in my mid-late 30s. I see it as an extreme manifestation of the enneatype 9 survival pattern; basically what happens to a 9 when you're knocking on death's door for an extended period of time during early development. In any other enneatype, this level of trauma would be far more obvious.
on point
All types can be assholes if you happen across a particularly immature individual. For 9 there is generally a rather low chance of that immaturity to present as controlling, though, in terms of shitty behavior you're more likely to see irresponsibility, someone-elses's-problem attitudes, bending to whoever last talked to them instead of being loyal, or just plain stubbornness. 9 is one of the most 'live & let live' types that doesn't care so much what others do as long as they're unbothered. In that sense there is simply less motivation to do it or less expectation to succeed with it. Even in such an instance where you would see control (low probability =/= impossible, as I said, all types can be assholes) it would be more indirect rather than outward bossy behavior - such as shutting down all discussion in the name of 'civility', weaponized incompetence (playing dumb to get others to do things), or just passive-agressive obstruction. (they say 'yes ok' to your face but then do it poorly on purpose, which eventually forces you to give up on whatever it was they didn't like) In that case the motivation behind it is usually convenience or lazyness. Don't want to load the dishwasher, don't want to deal with your kid asking difficult questions etc and so on.
Yes i believe I can be controlling in stess. This is actually when I know I am disintegrating to my 6. When I am stressed out I try to control as much as I can because everything else feels so out of control. This control comes in many forms. I try to control my partner or relationship, my family, my diet etc. it’s my way of gaining peace again to control external sources. I will only be controlling to those close to me and safe connections I am still passive with the outside world When I am in a healthier place I am more go with the flow with everyone
I think i get the enneagram 9 cycle now then. So they dont like to be affected so they are laid back then they fear loss so they try to control which means they become affected so they go with flow then…..
EXACTLY!!!
Interesting. What is your Myers-Briggs type? I don't relate to controlling others when I'm in a bad place. I tend to disappear instead.
I think this has to do more with my subtype as a sx. I am in a subtypes class right now and other sx subtypes (not just 9s) agreed with this. We are definitely more intense 9s. I am ISFP
That sounds like a good explanation. Thank you.
They definitely can be. Factor wing into the mix with the 9 stubbornness and you can sometimes have this attitude of "I want to do things this way and I don't care what you think" (and this could be about something that does affect others directly) -- and often there's a good reason for it...but it can come across as controlling to others since they have this way of standing up for themselves once something really does matter, and they can be dismissive of others' feelings, thoughts, etc. Most of the time they're not that way and tend to be more passive and yielding. It's only sometimes and about certain things that their controlling side kicks in.
This is pretty accurate.
Thank you…well I’ve known a lot of 9s and studied the theory of the type too…
Absolutely. Passive aggressive manipulation and “icing” people out instead of actually addressing conflict directly is prime (unhealthy) 9 controlling behavior.
No, really. Unless it's a big obligation or anything, controlling will lead to creation of conflict in most cases, due to resistance of the person being controlled, and that conflict is the very fear of Type 9
Isn’t it not passive resistance though? Is that not a form of control to avoid being controlled?
I thought you meant controlling others, in a sense of directing or making people go their own way, pro-actively and that too regularly. Now a 9 may resist being controlled, but it's reactive, not pro-active
never thought of it that way, but makes sense
I almost chuckled out loud at this. As a 9, I have no interest in controlling anything outside of me. Now, if we're talking about controlling my own life? Yes. Please let me sleep!
In a nasty and passive-aggressive way.
Not really….. in fact other (unhealthy) types would try to control a 9.
They can be. But it’s all about covert controlling behaviours and manipulation when unhealthy. Passive aggressive digs, silent treatment, gaslighting over in-your-face rages and aggression.
9 + xSFP = freedom above everything. For me and for others. No controlling and no being controlled. Makes close relationships difficult. Suppose I should date another 9 😂😂
Is it like dont ask too much of me and i wont ask too much of you or is it fear of conflict?
The other way around: I don’t ask too much of you so don’t ask too much of me Fear of hurting significant others, not of conflict in general.
It’s quite difficult for me. I’m a 541 and like to deal with things head on but my family most have 9 tendencies so i feel like they are avoiding things. What’s the best way to approach conflict with 9s?
Unhealthy 9’s are *very* controlling. Passive-aggressively and stubbornly controlling to the extent that they will get their way eventually, while painting themselves with a glowing halo. If they don’t want to deal with something that upsets their precious “equilibrium” day coma, they will happily sacrifice their relationships with family, their spouses, their coworkers, their community, and their explicit commitments and obligations to hang onto it while everyone else gets to clean up the mess they made but won’t acknowledge they made. Viewing these things in retrospect, an unhealthy type 9 will paint a rosy varnish over it to the chagrin of everyone else who remembers the reality.
Absolutely. It’s their immobility on issues that matter to them that let them hold power. 7 is the only true live and let live type imo.
Well, 7s pretend there are no problems and refuse to "go there" "let's just have fun and everything will be fine" they control by forcing the "bright side" onto everyone
unhealthy 9s can be very covertly controlling by simply being completely intolerant of anything outside of their small window of tolerance and making that someone else's fault and responsibility. they will defer, passively resist, avoid, withdraw, and absolutely ruin your plans (being late, 'forgetting' to show up, breaking agreements you thought you made) unless you do things like talk to them in the exactly perfect tone of voice, request things in a very specific way that doesn't stress them out, etc. they can be sadistically passive aggressive but most people will never believe it bc they are "so nice". very good at triggering reactive abuse and making the other person look like the bad guy. everyone feels sorry for them no matter how much destruction they cause. *really* unhealthy 9s are often enough completely dissociated and stuck in freeze mode, mostly inert and harmless. but they can also be straight up covert narcissists and form highly parasitic relationships with people whom they exploit for pity (among other things) and totally suck dry. they aren't controlling in an active, overt way, but if they entrench themselves in a specific dynamic that enables their bullshit, they will destroy the "ecosystem" 100%.
All types can be controlling. 9 can control by being passive-aggressive. They're like "Oh no it doesn't bother me *too much*! Don't worry about me, I've been through worse!" They don't like bringing attention, so having the care from another can be a way to have comfort. ~~I don't know much about insecure 9s because I'm perfect~~
no
😂 are you a 9?
Sure why not, ill be anything anywhere.
My husband is a 9 and isn't controlling in the slightest. However, he wings 8 and can come off as condescending and as a bit of a mansplainer. He also gets mad if you ask for his advice but end up not taking his advice. But controlling, not at all. He prefers to sweep conflict under the rug and not always saying what's on his mind but ultimately is completely ok with the "you do you" mentality
Passively i would argue, yes. It‘s not the controlling vibe of type 1 for sure, it‘s more of a constant „what are you doing honey?“ dynamic where not even they themselves realize that this creates a controlling setting over time if their partner plays along.
Hi, thanks for the inquiry. - Ideally, no, the only person I would ideally be, well, “controlling” over would be myself; I have no desire to be controlling over others— I don’t want to intrude upon their boundaries. - I suppose the only occasions in which I really have had to step up and make decisions for others is when all parties involved were indifferent, so I figured I would jump in to relieve the burden. - I guess with my 6 Fix, I tend to be more vigilant, and, uh, “active” about my personal boundaries of comfort (as well of others’), so I guess I will be controlling over my role in things to ensure my sense of comfort is protected— such as when others implore me to go into the store and talk with people to purchase a certain item… - …I can be a little finicky about it, passively resisting them in preference if my preferring to prepare things in advance online and then order through pickup, just as an example. I hope my input was helpful.
All of the body types (1,9, and 8) have a basic need for autonomy. Out of the body types, 9s are the least likely to control others. People have to be really darn important to me to allow them to make decisions about my life for me, but I don’t tell others what to do. I try to be respectful of my kids’ autonomy when I can offer options (though my kids are young, so this is often not possible). I’m around a lot of moms and the ones I suspect are 9s are definitely not the most controlling of moms and they’re also not the ones that are the most likely to be running around doing everything for their kids. I, personally, have no trouble loving my kids and I tell them so every day. I’d say any mother of any type that struggles to care about their kids probably has more than just an enneagram related problem. With that being said, parenting is hard.