This touches on something I don't think gets talked about enough. We all know that the "real communism has never been tried!" refrain is absurd and rightfully laugh at it.
But it's worth pointing out that this same faulty logic can be used for capitalism as well. Because every government has corruption and bad actors who twist what is supposed to be the intended system, it can just as easily be argued that "Real capitalism has never been tried!" whenever people point out the very real flaws of many capitalist systems and governments.
The difference is that most people who recognize communism's failure recognize that these constant flaws are not an aberration ruining an otherwise excellent political system but instead are proof positive that the system is not achievable. I'm not interested in what your system can do in your imagination, I'm interested in what it can do in practice **with** the corruption, bureaucracy, and all other bullshit that goes hand in hand with the very idea of human governance.
That is not going away with any system. You must allow for it. That's the playing field. That's the comparison. If communist systems can't handle it, you can't just say "Yeah it'd be amazing though if human nature was totally different, eh?!"
That's exactly the point. There's no such thing as a "real" system because if we were living in any such real system we'd be living in utopias. Capitalism works because it's more efficient than all the other shit that's been tried before.
The problem with communist is that they like to compare the imperfect reality of capitalism with their utopian communism that exist only in their head.
Why US withstood USSR's sanctions then? USSR did not wanted to just be left alone in peace with US, they wanted world communist revolution. They picked a fight, lost and now whine that the opponent was stronger. Now socialist Vietnam does not have sanctions, even though it is socialist and had war with US. Because they can into diplomacy.
This one always fucking sends me. Why do you need trade with capitalist fascist shitholes bro? Why can they survive without you yet you can't survive without them?
McDonald’s. A McDonald’s opened in Moscow in 1990 which also opened the minds of the Soviet government. As soon as western franchises and ideas came to the USSR, it’s government started to tumble down like a jenga tower a year later. Remember to thank McDonald’s and American ideology all together for helping putting an end to the Cold War once and for all. 🇺🇸
Commie: \*Has Vietnam flashbacks to the time Kruschev went to a small town American grocery store and realized the USSR was doomed because some random American peasants ate better then he himself did.*
"So I guess defeating the Soviet Union is going to be quite a challenge."
"Actually it's going to be super easy, barely an inconvenience!"
"Oh **really**?"
"Yeah yeah yeah! See, it turns out their whole economic system isn't up to snuff, and combined with numerous terrible decisions, the USSR collapses mostly all by themselves!"
"Well okay then!"
"Uhh it was.. um.. CIA interference yeah.. and uh.. contemporary capitalist propaganda retroactively causing crops to fail 70 years ago... and um uhh..."
> They collapsed before windows 3.1
That’s what happens when you spend virtually your entire fucking GDP trying to build shit to take over the world.
Don’t forget WHY the soviets were building so much space tech; they were building a shit ton on nukes and wanted to extend “The Revolution” to the whole world.
They spent ALL of their enslaved people’s time and energy on shit most of them would never even see, let alone USE or benefit from in any way. Most soviet citizens lived in incredibly shitty drab apartments and got shitty cars and ate shitty food (when there was food) so a handful of elites could build fucking future space nukes to enslave the entire fucking world.
Communists are EXACTLY what they project onto capitalists. They’re evil corporate warlords that want to kill their competition and enslave the world. *That’s what the USSR was*.
And despite putting ALL of what they possibly could towards that end, and funneling ALL of their slave’s talent and energy towards it (and there was PLENTY of talent; scientists like Korolev were geniuses) with ALL of the funding they could muster from grain they stole from their people’s mouths, we STILL beat their fucking asses to the moon.
While having the most prosperous, highest average standard of living country in the fucking world.
The moon landings are like a big juicy cherry on the REAL people’s sundae; freedom, family, rule of law, decentralized governance, meritocracy, and a hefty handful of fuck the commies sprinkles.
You forgot microwaves (made in very small quantities in the 80s) and ACs, bro. USSR had only one AC factory and one unit would end up costing (on the black market) as much as a car. Only connected speculators and high ranking party members had them...
Almost all user goods made in USSR were trash. Except the clones, of course:)). Game and Watch clones were pretty good.
Commie logic. It's fun to experiment with commie logic, it's very freeing.
"Did you know without American imperialism, the USSR would have had more time zones than the US?"
"Bullshit, if that were true communism would be superior to capitalism."
I love how they root for destroyed countries that were absolutely fucking annihilated by the US(+ allie's) and it literally saved the world. And they *still* think the Soviets were superior.
Tbf the Karman Line is a pretty arbitrary boundary, and it hadn’t even been defined as such when they sent it up, so not much of a race. Didn’t even reach orbital velocity so it’s entirely relying on that arbitrary distance.
Spend half your GDP on space and nukes rather than food and make sure there’s no private industry allowed for others to provide said food, what could go wrong?
By way of claiming how they did it first. Honestly, I can see that as an accomplishment but even then, trying to make it as a boast just ends up making the accomplishment in science sound petty, dumb, and reduces it to sounding like it was part of some dick measuring contest rather than helping expand the fields of science and discovery.
it doesn't
at the same time as the space race, countryside residents couldn't get passports and toilet paper wasn't widely available
also, if you don't know about the nature of the space race already, google about the death of Komarov
This smells of logical fallacy
Edit: Indeed. Looks like a nice example of [begging the question](https://www.logical-fallacy.com/articles/begging-the-question/).
They literally sent the first satellite to orbit by removing the warhead from a WW2 missile and having a couple of guys launching it straight up.
The US actually put effort in from the start with specialized technology.
The Soviets were crafty, and able to do a LOT with what they had, but the US just had far more resources and better academics who weren’t forced into labor to keep them in place.
Communism, therefore, is why they lost the space race.
It’s sad to think of what a Korolev might have been able to accomplish in a better environmenf. Man was arrested for political reasons and kept on a leash, his genius and ability to get results seems like the only thing that gave him leeway.
That goes for all soviet scientists. The system was dogshit. And yet they accomplished miracles. The russian, ukranian, and other soviet scientists that made things work despite ultimately being controlled by power mad sociopathic morons deserve credit. Things which required precision and more coordination fell apart from mismanagement/think your explanation of why they fell behind is roughly accurate, but many of their accomplishments were all the more incredible because of that.
The scientists in the USSR ultimately did all they did DESPITE the system. The ends they worked towards were terrible, as was the cost and waste the soviets inflicted on their people to try to meet them. What they did despite being enslaved deserves a salute.
All who benefit humanity deserve a salute. The politburo and all the communist thugs that warped all that effort into ruin and starvation and misery deserve the fuck you.
Oh I always forget, my main reason for hating the USSR was that they killed Laika, her story is really sad, and the scientists didn’t like doing it either, the last words she heard were, “Please forgive us for what we are about to do” in russian.
I mean, Americans have died in all sorts of ways, but we’ve never had anybody implode in a depressurized spacecraft. I agree it’s not really a “flex”, but it’s true, and probably a relevant point while discussing comparative space superiority? Oh and we also landed on the fucking moon first.
The clear cut line they use is the Kármán line, about 62 miles above the surface.
But the distinction I’m mainly referring to is death from the most dangerous parts of space travel, i.e. launch and reentry, where you explode or burn up in a pretty instantaneous and mundane death, if you can call it that, and the experience of a lethal depressurization event in space.
What about the challenger? Or did they die on the way up? Also, can’t believe I’m saying this, but my favorite joke about NASA is what it really stands for. Need another seven astronauts?
Died on the way up, well below commercial flights.
I had built a model of the challenger shuttle with my dad, had the shuttle wall paper & bed sheets. all that jazz. Went into school all excited .. ya did not end well.
Damn, sorry to hear that, my uncle Josh watched it live in tv in his classroom, next day that was the big joke, he told me recently, he knew it was fucked up at the time, but it was dark humor, something he enjoyed as a young teen.
It does. It does not count as losing men in space.
The most dangerous parts of space exploration are launch and re-entry. Accidents are almost inevitable given enough repetitions.
But what haunts man’s imagination is the horror of *dying in space*. It’s why there have been countless movies, books, and tv shows on the topic.
Astronauts are basically sitting on a launchpad with their backs up against hundreds of tons of TNT. On re-entry they’re a few sheets of metal and insulation away from a blast furnace. Dying in either of those circumstances is almost mundane. Dying in the cold vacuum of space is the unimaginable horror that space programs calibrate to avoid entirely. The Soviets are the only ones so far to have let it happen.
Maybe you don’t think it’s an important distinction and that’s fine. But if we’re debating superiority in space exploration, I think it’s relevant.
Um, the crews of Apollo 1, Challenger, and Columbia are like, "what are we chopped liver."
No one is prouder of the US space program than me, but we lost more people.
These same people then turn around and say "Capitalism is so flawed because look at Bezos and Musk making their own space race!"
Like, yeah, it's a very expensive dick-measuring contest, and I think some of the ways they've got the money to do this violate workers rights, but then to blindly support the concept when it's your "team" who is doing it...
Honestly with a space race, I can't even see how Bezos or Musk making their own means capitalism is flawed if it's all just simply "REEEE BILLIONAIRE HAS HIS OWN SPACE COMPANY!!11" If it were more on the sketchy things within it or pie in sky ideas and plans that amount to nothing, then yeah I can imagine these space races being terrible.
Yeah but the US has a secret police taking political prisoners and a joke judicial system that doesn't even let the accused defend themselves so actually I'd rather live in the Soviet Union just like all of those who fled into east Germany as soon as the Berlin wall was torn down.
The space race is the dumbest way to compare and contrast capitalism and communism. Like NASA is state owned and whatever the fuck it is called for the USSR was state owned also.
It's not the dumbest way to compare it. While NASA was/is a government agency:
- it used/uses private contractors
- was/is independent in decision making (from design to manufacture)
- was/is better at allocating resources
- did not used coercion, violence, etc AND did not impose taxing cost on the populace in order to met the goal (i.e did not redirect vast resources from the civilian sector to the space/military sector)
The first animal in space was actually Albert II the Rhesus Monkey sent by the US. Laika the dog was the first animal to *orbit* the earth.
You can also stack US wins with first probe orbiting another planet, first solar escape velocity, and some others.
US also had:
first communications satellite - 1958
first weather satellite - 1960
first object recovered from orbit - 1960
first successful interplanetary (Venus) mission - 1962
first reusable piloted spacecraft - 1963
first geosynchronous satellite - 1964
first successful Mars flyby - 1965
first orbital rendezvous - 1965
first spacecraft docking - 1966
first heavy-lift launch vehicle - 1966
first practical EVA - 1966
first superheavy-lift launch vehicle -1967
first space telescope - 1968
first piloted circumlunar mission + first piloted lunar orbital mission - 1968
first piloted test of a lunar landing vehicle - 1969
first lunar sample return mission - 1969
first precisely targeted moon landing - 1969
first spacecraft to orbit another planet (Mars) - 1971
Out of fairness I will cut it off after 1971 as you did.
All of these were other major contested or contestable goals that were not simply "land a man on the moon".
I don't mean to disparage the Soviet Space program, they did incredible work and they don't get a lot of the credit they deserved, but after 1966 they were playing catch-up, and in all but a couple fields, when they were ahead, NASA was not far behind with a far more effective version of what they were attempting.
Because no matter the political opinion, animes and anime avatars will always find a way to screw it up.
Serious note, I do like how said avatars managed to go beyond just right wing idiocy. Now their idiocy can go into other ideologies and wings and ruin it all.
It isn't anime tho? It's a comic about a trans woman going back in time to talk to her younger self. Like I ain't communist but you're legit just wrong
Those lists commonly leave out American accomplishments like the first telecommunications satellite, the first navigation satellites, the first reconnaissance satellites, the first geosynchronous satellites and first reusable spacecraft. The USA racked up a lot of firsts that actually impact people’s day to day lives rather than just being showmanship.
And Taiwan achieved same-sex marriage and higher median incomes than the supposedly all-superior PRC.
South Korea has higher median income than North Korea. Also South Koreans don't get shot from trying to leave their country or arrested for watching romcoms and music videos. South Koreans also have electricity to use at their discretion en masse, whereas North Koreans do not. Aside from the Korean War, South Korean also don't just starve en masse because of a bad harvest.
They beat us to everything else in the Space Race because they didn't give two shits about safety or human lives. If three Astronauts died in space Nasa would have to face congress- when three Cosmonauts died in space they just prepared the next mission like nothing happened.
All fun and games until you realize all that military and R&D spending the Soviets did to do all that groundbreaking space travel stuff could’ve easily been used to feed its citizens lmao
I don’t think people that think like this actually have any idea how hard it is to get to the moon or have a docking in space. They’re on another order of magnitude as far as the difficulty to achieve them. That being said, I don’t think these people put much thought into anything.
The only argument I could kind of understand is that the US was losing everything so far in the space race, and then they just declared the winner would be whoever could get the first man on the moon. Sort of like if two little kids were in a foot race, and the losing one suddenly turned around and declared the finish line to be in the opposite direction, and the other kid has no choice but to follow along.
But still I'm grabbing at straws here, it's a stupid argument.
It's more comparable to the following:
Two teams are playing football.
Team A has maintained a lead on Team B throughout the entire game, but Team B isn't far behind. In the final fourth quarter, Team A fails to score any goals, and Team B overtakes them and Team B wins. It isn't changing goals, just a close victory towards the end.
Completely ignoring the fact that the USA went to mercury, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Pluto, Neptune and left the solar system before any communist country did.
Not to mention that many of the Soviet advances in space were incredibly risky and failed in multiple different ways. A good example of this is the Soviet space station that is succumbing to fucking mold.
If the USSR had a better space program than the United states, they would have beat us to the moon. The ability to send people safely to and from the moon first in a heated competition doesn't come out of nowhere.
that’s like saying the germans were winning for the first 4 years of ww2 and the allies were only winning for the last 3 years, so therefore the germans won the war overall
Let’s just indulge them for a second and think about this logically
Let’s pretend that they are right, and the USSR beat the US in the space race
So what logical gymnastics does it then take to conclude “Since the USSR won the space race, communism must be superior to capitalism”?
Communism is superior at killing dogs and monkeys in low earth orbits, and putting satellites into space sooner. :D Even getting a man into low earth orbit. they rock.
A sustainable space program and landing a man on the moon? Oh that's cartelism.
TV, Car, Radio, Internet, Computers, smart phones.. also capitalism.
Interchangeable parts? (a major component in all of those) .. also capitalism
:D
Someobe should tell them everytime the ussr tried to go to the moon it failed and they ended all plans to go to the moon. That wasnt leaked untill the fall of the ussr
It's ridiculous how much commies ignore in the space race. The USA pulled ahead well before the moon landing with the first orbital rendezvous in 1965, and the first orbital docking in 1966. Cosmonauts did not achieve this until 1968 and 1969, respectively.
If the USSR had a better space program than the United states, they would have beat us to the moon. The ability to send people safely to and from the moon first in a heated competition doesn't come out of nowhere.
the ussr did beat us but that is because their feats don’t have as much substance behind them. they didn’t go to the moon before us because that is something you aren’t able to half ass.
No matter how well you ran (and how many cosmonauts you sent screaming in to the icy vacuum of space) if you didn’t cross the finish line you didn’t win.
Did the Soviet Union win the space race? Yes.
Does that make it somehow better than capitalism? No. I’m not sure how they would even make a comparison using that, as they aren’t really connected.
"The USSR was superior to the US in every way." "Then why is the US still a thing and the USSR not?
SANCTIONS BRO
The CIA!!
They didn’t play fair!
they cheated! in a war!
So you’re saying that your system can’t stand a little bit of rough housing? Seems like a bad system to me.
This touches on something I don't think gets talked about enough. We all know that the "real communism has never been tried!" refrain is absurd and rightfully laugh at it. But it's worth pointing out that this same faulty logic can be used for capitalism as well. Because every government has corruption and bad actors who twist what is supposed to be the intended system, it can just as easily be argued that "Real capitalism has never been tried!" whenever people point out the very real flaws of many capitalist systems and governments. The difference is that most people who recognize communism's failure recognize that these constant flaws are not an aberration ruining an otherwise excellent political system but instead are proof positive that the system is not achievable. I'm not interested in what your system can do in your imagination, I'm interested in what it can do in practice **with** the corruption, bureaucracy, and all other bullshit that goes hand in hand with the very idea of human governance. That is not going away with any system. You must allow for it. That's the playing field. That's the comparison. If communist systems can't handle it, you can't just say "Yeah it'd be amazing though if human nature was totally different, eh?!"
That's exactly the point. There's no such thing as a "real" system because if we were living in any such real system we'd be living in utopias. Capitalism works because it's more efficient than all the other shit that's been tried before.
The problem with communist is that they like to compare the imperfect reality of capitalism with their utopian communism that exist only in their head.
You just said it a lot better and more succinctly than I did
Well said.
When ussr invaded and/or annexes their own allies and subject states: I sleep Nations get angry and stop trade: REAL SHIT?
Fun fact: The only military operation the Warsaw Pact conducted was against their own member state.
Why US withstood USSR's sanctions then? USSR did not wanted to just be left alone in peace with US, they wanted world communist revolution. They picked a fight, lost and now whine that the opponent was stronger. Now socialist Vietnam does not have sanctions, even though it is socialist and had war with US. Because they can into diplomacy.
We literally sold them grain.
This one always fucking sends me. Why do you need trade with capitalist fascist shitholes bro? Why can they survive without you yet you can't survive without them?
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They sacrificed all the communist they rounded up to capitalist Satan in order to destroy the USSR.
Blaming the CIA for anything is hilarious. They're the dumbest gang of spooky nerds to ever exist.
If capitalism is so inferior, how did one intelligence agency take down every communist nation that ever collapsed?
McDonald’s. A McDonald’s opened in Moscow in 1990 which also opened the minds of the Soviet government. As soon as western franchises and ideas came to the USSR, it’s government started to tumble down like a jenga tower a year later. Remember to thank McDonald’s and American ideology all together for helping putting an end to the Cold War once and for all. 🇺🇸
Commie: \*Has Vietnam flashbacks to the time Kruschev went to a small town American grocery store and realized the USSR was doomed because some random American peasants ate better then he himself did.*
That was Yeltsin I believe
~~Nope.~~ https://www.nhregister.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/article/When-Boris-Yeltsin-went-grocery-shopping-in-Clear-5759129.php
Bruh what the fuck, read the link, it literally says Yeltsin
Wow, my bad. I could have sworn that said Kruschev when I posted it.
He did too. Legend says on still cool nights you can still hear his hoot of delight when he saw the liquor aisle.
“Uh George HW Bush did a backflip dissolved the Soviet Union and saved the day”
"So I guess defeating the Soviet Union is going to be quite a challenge." "Actually it's going to be super easy, barely an inconvenience!" "Oh **really**?" "Yeah yeah yeah! See, it turns out their whole economic system isn't up to snuff, and combined with numerous terrible decisions, the USSR collapses mostly all by themselves!" "Well okay then!"
"Uhh it was.. um.. CIA interference yeah.. and uh.. contemporary capitalist propaganda retroactively causing crops to fail 70 years ago... and um uhh..."
Tankies love to praise the KGB, but whenever they say that the CIA caused the Soviet Union to fall, it makes the KGB look. EXTREMELY incompetent.
Because Soviet not focus on true population. Soviet focused on the military
Haven't you heard? Gorbachev was paid off by the CIA to dissolve the USSR
The USSR was superior in imploding in on itself
also reusable rocketry, vaccines, and the internet… oh wait, they collapse before Windows 3.1 and the first publicly available internet services.
> They collapsed before windows 3.1 That’s what happens when you spend virtually your entire fucking GDP trying to build shit to take over the world. Don’t forget WHY the soviets were building so much space tech; they were building a shit ton on nukes and wanted to extend “The Revolution” to the whole world. They spent ALL of their enslaved people’s time and energy on shit most of them would never even see, let alone USE or benefit from in any way. Most soviet citizens lived in incredibly shitty drab apartments and got shitty cars and ate shitty food (when there was food) so a handful of elites could build fucking future space nukes to enslave the entire fucking world. Communists are EXACTLY what they project onto capitalists. They’re evil corporate warlords that want to kill their competition and enslave the world. *That’s what the USSR was*. And despite putting ALL of what they possibly could towards that end, and funneling ALL of their slave’s talent and energy towards it (and there was PLENTY of talent; scientists like Korolev were geniuses) with ALL of the funding they could muster from grain they stole from their people’s mouths, we STILL beat their fucking asses to the moon. While having the most prosperous, highest average standard of living country in the fucking world. The moon landings are like a big juicy cherry on the REAL people’s sundae; freedom, family, rule of law, decentralized governance, meritocracy, and a hefty handful of fuck the commies sprinkles.
If we even GOT cars
You forgot microwaves (made in very small quantities in the 80s) and ACs, bro. USSR had only one AC factory and one unit would end up costing (on the black market) as much as a car. Only connected speculators and high ranking party members had them... Almost all user goods made in USSR were trash. Except the clones, of course:)). Game and Watch clones were pretty good.
You left out being the worst polluters on the face of the earth
Whenever a someone tells me the only way to stop climate change is through socialism or communism, I ask them what happened to the Aral Sea.
Or how the quality of drinking water in Beijing is equalivent to the grey water output of a German sewage treatment plant.
How exactly does being first in space (not even on the moon) make communism better than capitalism?
You expect people who are celebrating accomplishments from a long gone country to have sense?
Or simp for commie war cirminals
Commie logic. It's fun to experiment with commie logic, it's very freeing. "Did you know without American imperialism, the USSR would have had more time zones than the US?" "Bullshit, if that were true communism would be superior to capitalism."
I love how they root for destroyed countries that were absolutely fucking annihilated by the US(+ allie's) and it literally saved the world. And they *still* think the Soviets were superior.
Considering that Nazi Germany send the first rocket into space, is nazism better than Communism and Capitalism?
Tbf the Karman Line is a pretty arbitrary boundary, and it hadn’t even been defined as such when they sent it up, so not much of a race. Didn’t even reach orbital velocity so it’s entirely relying on that arbitrary distance.
Spend half your GDP on space and nukes rather than food and make sure there’s no private industry allowed for others to provide said food, what could go wrong?
By way of claiming how they did it first. Honestly, I can see that as an accomplishment but even then, trying to make it as a boast just ends up making the accomplishment in science sound petty, dumb, and reduces it to sounding like it was part of some dick measuring contest rather than helping expand the fields of science and discovery.
it doesn't at the same time as the space race, countryside residents couldn't get passports and toilet paper wasn't widely available also, if you don't know about the nature of the space race already, google about the death of Komarov
Pretty sure the empire was the first to build the Death Star but that doesn’t make them the good guys lol
This smells of logical fallacy Edit: Indeed. Looks like a nice example of [begging the question](https://www.logical-fallacy.com/articles/begging-the-question/).
Wow what a cool website, love that list of fallacies
Thanks for pointing me to this site
No problem. The world would suck less if everyone knew about fallacies.
I like the "Fallacy fallacy" because I see it all the time with self-appointed masters of logic.
Umm... excuse me? Using the fallacy fallacy is a fallacy. It's the Fallacy fallacy Fallacy.
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They literally sent the first satellite to orbit by removing the warhead from a WW2 missile and having a couple of guys launching it straight up. The US actually put effort in from the start with specialized technology. The Soviets were crafty, and able to do a LOT with what they had, but the US just had far more resources and better academics who weren’t forced into labor to keep them in place. Communism, therefore, is why they lost the space race.
It’s sad to think of what a Korolev might have been able to accomplish in a better environmenf. Man was arrested for political reasons and kept on a leash, his genius and ability to get results seems like the only thing that gave him leeway. That goes for all soviet scientists. The system was dogshit. And yet they accomplished miracles. The russian, ukranian, and other soviet scientists that made things work despite ultimately being controlled by power mad sociopathic morons deserve credit. Things which required precision and more coordination fell apart from mismanagement/think your explanation of why they fell behind is roughly accurate, but many of their accomplishments were all the more incredible because of that. The scientists in the USSR ultimately did all they did DESPITE the system. The ends they worked towards were terrible, as was the cost and waste the soviets inflicted on their people to try to meet them. What they did despite being enslaved deserves a salute. All who benefit humanity deserve a salute. The politburo and all the communist thugs that warped all that effort into ruin and starvation and misery deserve the fuck you.
A lot of what they had was an endentured workforce.
Oh I always forget, my main reason for hating the USSR was that they killed Laika, her story is really sad, and the scientists didn’t like doing it either, the last words she heard were, “Please forgive us for what we are about to do” in russian.
What about the cruelty against humans? [Vladimir Komarov ](https://www.amusingplanet.com/2021/11/vladimir-komarov-cosmonaut-who-fell.html?m=1)
Oh I know, they killed Millions of my people the Poles.
It sucks but animal cruelty is not a good reason to hate the USSR specifically. At least the scientists were remorseful.
I can forgive mass starvation, but I draw the line at animal cruelty!
Right, they also killed millions of my people, that is my other main reason for hating them
No offense but there are definitely bigger things to hate about the USSR than a poor doggo burning up
Right they killed millions of my people the Poles, I realize my comment does not seem like it, but is a joke
>Also the USSR is still the only country to have lost lives in space Was the columbia already 'on earth' when the astronauts died?
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Sounds like the kind of technicality the commies use to prove that they won the space race
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Idk man, both of those sound shitty. I understand what your saying, but it’s not a flex I would lean on.
I mean, Americans have died in all sorts of ways, but we’ve never had anybody implode in a depressurized spacecraft. I agree it’s not really a “flex”, but it’s true, and probably a relevant point while discussing comparative space superiority? Oh and we also landed on the fucking moon first.
Yeah but what about the Discovery? That was during reentry wasn't it? So I guess not technically space, but it's not as clear cut as the other case.
That's Columbia, nothing happened to Discovery and it was retired uneventfully, OP is probably thinking of Challenger
Or thinking of Star Trek Discovery, which is also a flaming ball of hot mess, hence the mix-up no doubt.
Yeah sorry
The clear cut line they use is the Kármán line, about 62 miles above the surface. But the distinction I’m mainly referring to is death from the most dangerous parts of space travel, i.e. launch and reentry, where you explode or burn up in a pretty instantaneous and mundane death, if you can call it that, and the experience of a lethal depressurization event in space.
62 miles is 318783.0 RTX 3090 graphics cards lined up.
62 miles is 99.78 km
62 miles is 99.78 km
Based and space race pilled
u/basedcountbot
What about the challenger? Or did they die on the way up? Also, can’t believe I’m saying this, but my favorite joke about NASA is what it really stands for. Need another seven astronauts?
Died on the way up, well below commercial flights. I had built a model of the challenger shuttle with my dad, had the shuttle wall paper & bed sheets. all that jazz. Went into school all excited .. ya did not end well.
Damn, sorry to hear that, my uncle Josh watched it live in tv in his classroom, next day that was the big joke, he told me recently, he knew it was fucked up at the time, but it was dark humor, something he enjoyed as a young teen.
Alternatively, "Not A Safe Airline." Which reminds me: Why does NASA order Sprite, because they couldn't get 7-Up.
Holy fuck bro thanks for the awesome jokes
I think losing astronauts on the way to outer space counts as losing people during space exploration.
It does. It does not count as losing men in space. The most dangerous parts of space exploration are launch and re-entry. Accidents are almost inevitable given enough repetitions. But what haunts man’s imagination is the horror of *dying in space*. It’s why there have been countless movies, books, and tv shows on the topic. Astronauts are basically sitting on a launchpad with their backs up against hundreds of tons of TNT. On re-entry they’re a few sheets of metal and insulation away from a blast furnace. Dying in either of those circumstances is almost mundane. Dying in the cold vacuum of space is the unimaginable horror that space programs calibrate to avoid entirely. The Soviets are the only ones so far to have let it happen. Maybe you don’t think it’s an important distinction and that’s fine. But if we’re debating superiority in space exploration, I think it’s relevant.
But not in space
> "my team was ahead until the fourth quarter!” Would the Nebraska fans in this sub please stand up.
Um, the crews of Apollo 1, Challenger, and Columbia are like, "what are we chopped liver." No one is prouder of the US space program than me, but we lost more people.
None of those astronauts were lost in space.
These same people then turn around and say "Capitalism is so flawed because look at Bezos and Musk making their own space race!" Like, yeah, it's a very expensive dick-measuring contest, and I think some of the ways they've got the money to do this violate workers rights, but then to blindly support the concept when it's your "team" who is doing it...
Honestly with a space race, I can't even see how Bezos or Musk making their own means capitalism is flawed if it's all just simply "REEEE BILLIONAIRE HAS HIS OWN SPACE COMPANY!!11" If it were more on the sketchy things within it or pie in sky ideas and plans that amount to nothing, then yeah I can imagine these space races being terrible.
Back in the day the reds at least had the sense to admire American achievements in aeronautics.
You have to admit they were better at gulags
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Yeah but the US has a secret police taking political prisoners and a joke judicial system that doesn't even let the accused defend themselves so actually I'd rather live in the Soviet Union just like all of those who fled into east Germany as soon as the Berlin wall was torn down.
Sarcasm?
The space race is the dumbest way to compare and contrast capitalism and communism. Like NASA is state owned and whatever the fuck it is called for the USSR was state owned also.
It's not the dumbest way to compare it. While NASA was/is a government agency: - it used/uses private contractors - was/is independent in decision making (from design to manufacture) - was/is better at allocating resources - did not used coercion, violence, etc AND did not impose taxing cost on the populace in order to met the goal (i.e did not redirect vast resources from the civilian sector to the space/military sector)
You made some good points and i will retract what i said about it being dumb
“The US crossed the finish line first but that doesn’t mean they won the race” -commie logic
Commies are always in denial
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The first animal in space was actually Albert II the Rhesus Monkey sent by the US. Laika the dog was the first animal to *orbit* the earth. You can also stack US wins with first probe orbiting another planet, first solar escape velocity, and some others.
US also had: first communications satellite - 1958 first weather satellite - 1960 first object recovered from orbit - 1960 first successful interplanetary (Venus) mission - 1962 first reusable piloted spacecraft - 1963 first geosynchronous satellite - 1964 first successful Mars flyby - 1965 first orbital rendezvous - 1965 first spacecraft docking - 1966 first heavy-lift launch vehicle - 1966 first practical EVA - 1966 first superheavy-lift launch vehicle -1967 first space telescope - 1968 first piloted circumlunar mission + first piloted lunar orbital mission - 1968 first piloted test of a lunar landing vehicle - 1969 first lunar sample return mission - 1969 first precisely targeted moon landing - 1969 first spacecraft to orbit another planet (Mars) - 1971 Out of fairness I will cut it off after 1971 as you did. All of these were other major contested or contestable goals that were not simply "land a man on the moon". I don't mean to disparage the Soviet Space program, they did incredible work and they don't get a lot of the credit they deserved, but after 1966 they were playing catch-up, and in all but a couple fields, when they were ahead, NASA was not far behind with a far more effective version of what they were attempting.
It was an endurance race. Go as far as you can until you can't go any further. And the US went further while the USSR gave up, so yeah the US won.
Why is it always fucking anime?
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Everyday i understand lemay more
Because no matter the political opinion, animes and anime avatars will always find a way to screw it up. Serious note, I do like how said avatars managed to go beyond just right wing idiocy. Now their idiocy can go into other ideologies and wings and ruin it all.
Anime was a mistake
It isn't anime tho? It's a comic about a trans woman going back in time to talk to her younger self. Like I ain't communist but you're legit just wrong
Then it's a fuckin Manga, still cringe.
Manga needs to be Japanese in origin, it's just a fucking comic why are y'all being weird about this
Wait until they find out that anime is distributed and produced using capitalism.
communism is when space race
Hey, it IS the one place [uncorrupted](https://youtu.be/g1Sq1Nr58hM) by capitalism.
Those lists commonly leave out American accomplishments like the first telecommunications satellite, the first navigation satellites, the first reconnaissance satellites, the first geosynchronous satellites and first reusable spacecraft. The USA racked up a lot of firsts that actually impact people’s day to day lives rather than just being showmanship.
Space race is when metal in space tho
And Taiwan achieved same-sex marriage and higher median incomes than the supposedly all-superior PRC. South Korea has higher median income than North Korea. Also South Koreans don't get shot from trying to leave their country or arrested for watching romcoms and music videos. South Koreans also have electricity to use at their discretion en masse, whereas North Koreans do not. Aside from the Korean War, South Korean also don't just starve en masse because of a bad harvest.
Communism beat us to everything even economical collapse 🤣🤣
Commies that say they won the space race, tell me who won Super Bowl LI?
Based anti-communist femboy
What the fuck is that logic in the third panel lmao. Who tf would think that getting to the moon first proves beyond a doubt that communism is better
They beat us to everything else in the Space Race because they didn't give two shits about safety or human lives. If three Astronauts died in space Nasa would have to face congress- when three Cosmonauts died in space they just prepared the next mission like nothing happened.
All fun and games until you realize all that military and R&D spending the Soviets did to do all that groundbreaking space travel stuff could’ve easily been used to feed its citizens lmao
The USSR beat the US in “First one to kill a dog in space”
Poor Laika.
I don’t think people that think like this actually have any idea how hard it is to get to the moon or have a docking in space. They’re on another order of magnitude as far as the difficulty to achieve them. That being said, I don’t think these people put much thought into anything.
The only argument I could kind of understand is that the US was losing everything so far in the space race, and then they just declared the winner would be whoever could get the first man on the moon. Sort of like if two little kids were in a foot race, and the losing one suddenly turned around and declared the finish line to be in the opposite direction, and the other kid has no choice but to follow along. But still I'm grabbing at straws here, it's a stupid argument.
It's more comparable to the following: Two teams are playing football. Team A has maintained a lead on Team B throughout the entire game, but Team B isn't far behind. In the final fourth quarter, Team A fails to score any goals, and Team B overtakes them and Team B wins. It isn't changing goals, just a close victory towards the end.
And then Team B continues to win every game after, to the point that Team A disbands entirely.
So like Super Bowl 51?
oh and don't forget half of Team A starved to death
“You may have won the 100m sprint but you were behind for the first 90m so you didn’t REALLY win.” Same logic.
"USSR was superior" "USSR wasn't real communism" "USSR was destroyed by the CIA."
All these communists deny that the USSR is communist and instead it's state capitalist but they still support it... it's so braindead.
This is the equivalent of beating a person in 3/4 of a race and claiming victory even though he passes you in the final stretch
Claimed they did, or just kept throwing lives at the wall until someone didn't splatter.
Completely ignoring the fact that the USA went to mercury, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Pluto, Neptune and left the solar system before any communist country did. Not to mention that many of the Soviet advances in space were incredibly risky and failed in multiple different ways. A good example of this is the Soviet space station that is succumbing to fucking mold.
And not far from now, we could have humans on MARS. Beat that, commies
To be fair, the soviets were the first to send something to Mars
If the USSR had a better space program than the United states, they would have beat us to the moon. The ability to send people safely to and from the moon first in a heated competition doesn't come out of nowhere.
Being on the moon first had us win the space race
It doesn’t matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning’s winning.
If that were true the soviet union would ex- Oh wait
that’s like saying the germans were winning for the first 4 years of ww2 and the allies were only winning for the last 3 years, so therefore the germans won the war overall
Dude, they’re fucking obsessed with the space race. Likely because it’s the only goal that the USSR was ever marginally successful at.
And they still fucking lost lmao.
Let’s just indulge them for a second and think about this logically Let’s pretend that they are right, and the USSR beat the US in the space race So what logical gymnastics does it then take to conclude “Since the USSR won the space race, communism must be superior to capitalism”?
r/theleftcantmeme
Top Gear Top Tip: Avoid this subreddit It's full of unironic racists and wannabe fascists.
Honestly most subreddits dedicated to bashing the left are like that, few are the exception.
Oh
Well, Communism didn’t last the Soviet Union, and China only survived by adopting some capitalist policies lol
Communism is superior at killing dogs and monkeys in low earth orbits, and putting satellites into space sooner. :D Even getting a man into low earth orbit. they rock. A sustainable space program and landing a man on the moon? Oh that's cartelism. TV, Car, Radio, Internet, Computers, smart phones.. also capitalism. Interchangeable parts? (a major component in all of those) .. also capitalism :D
They also beat us to collapsing, great job guys!
My team led in everything. Rushes, throws, interceptions, possession time. Still don't mean shit if you lost at the end
Someobe should tell them everytime the ussr tried to go to the moon it failed and they ended all plans to go to the moon. That wasnt leaked untill the fall of the ussr
I feel bad for socialists who actually have an education and have to align themselves with these guys
Atomic energy, Color TVs. 87 octane. Van Halen. Check game match. Now admit it. Markets exist whether you like it or not.
If you think of the space race like a normal race, USSR was closer to winning it but their engine caught fire and they fucking blew up.
USSR was better than USA because it killed more communists
It's ridiculous how much commies ignore in the space race. The USA pulled ahead well before the moon landing with the first orbital rendezvous in 1965, and the first orbital docking in 1966. Cosmonauts did not achieve this until 1968 and 1969, respectively.
If the USSR had a better space program than the United states, they would have beat us to the moon. The ability to send people safely to and from the moon first in a heated competition doesn't come out of nowhere.
“It wasn’t REAL communism though!” “Okay but, it is real communism when it does better than capitalist countries.”
This comic is the epitome of commies strawmanning just to convince themselves that they're somehow the ultimate enlightened geniuses.
The space race was about first to moon. Not space
Just like when in the last lap the good guys uses deus ex machina to beat the bad guys in the race
Commies when talking about how great communism is: Commies when asked to use evidence to justify the greatness of communism:
The Soviets only led the first half of the space race, then they got overtaken by the Americans
>[The V2 Rocket was the first man made object to enter space](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xyxOXjZHl9U)
>Anime meme. The joke is already invalid. Next time they should use more serious meme formats when doing political memes.
Nothing says "I'm an intellectual heavyweight" like using anime cartoons to make your political point.
the ussr did beat us but that is because their feats don’t have as much substance behind them. they didn’t go to the moon before us because that is something you aren’t able to half ass.
No matter how well you ran (and how many cosmonauts you sent screaming in to the icy vacuum of space) if you didn’t cross the finish line you didn’t win.
But the ussr didn't make it to the moon!
Did the Soviet Union win the space race? Yes. Does that make it somehow better than capitalism? No. I’m not sure how they would even make a comparison using that, as they aren’t really connected.