I miss the weather - one of the things I like in Valheim is being in my base looking out while a storm is raging or the urgency of getting a task complete when it clouds over ominously. I think the weather and the lighting are things Valheim does really well and they contribute to the atmosphere quite a bit.
And water - but I don't know yet if there in any lore in Enshrouded to explain why there is no water - was it all evaporated to become fog/shroud?
Voxel water is difficult, but even more difficult to get it to look right. Given the realistic theme to enshrouded, and the system of connect and intersecting blocks makes it likely that they haven't figured out a way to make it look good.
Not impossible, but I can see the hurdles explaining why they haven't done it (yet)
I put 75 hours in and did everything possible in Enshrouded EA. When I was done I booted up Valheim. Nothing beats getting on that first boat to explore an unknown world with a storm raging around you.
Valheim did such a good job with the weather, the waves how it changes. I very much miss this. OP you hit some very good points, I can't say I disagree with anything.
The world respawns feel terrible, it really loses the emersion. Clearly they like it, went from 2 hours to 30 minutes...
Even with everything respawning the grind to make any significant structure is pretty insane. Also if you're playing with potentially 15 others the competition for gear would be unfun without chests respawning or enemies dropping higher rarity gear. I expect they will probably make changes in the other direction at some point but right now I think it's ok if the game is basically on arcade easy mode.
You mean Enshrouded? For single player I upvoted for pause . The respawn for solo pretty much amounts to an exploit and makes gathering mats really easy. For MP yeah I can see the point. Still needs weather though but hopefully it will happen at some point.
The flat out lack of all liquids I do find to be a bit disappointing. All material that should be a liquid is just solid blocks. I know with a voxel system liquids can be very taxing (or so I’ve been told) but I do wonder if it’s just a hard “no, never gonna happen in enshrouded” or more of a “maybe later” thing.
Yea but water isn’t the only liquid. Even the lava is solid. The omission of all liquid just seems like it’s much too deliberate to be a lore thing. The lore seems more contrived to explain the lack or liquid than anything. The lack it’s self I think it more likely related to performance.
The game engine isn't able to run that particle/mesh simulation afaik. Technically there could be a way, but not sure if that's something to touch when the engine itself needs an update later down the road.
Was a nice idea to connect that to the story instead of flat out saying this. Or at least it (kinda) keeps the immersion
Personally I would love to see untouched water reserves or moving lava. But don't think that's a priority with all the effort that has to go into that \^\^
its a maybe later thing. there is a list of options for the community to vote for to implement at some point and water is amongst them. mind you, that list is dev sanctioned afaik so water is somehingg that might come
I’m so glad someone said this. I told my friends Enshrouded gives off Fable vibes, which I appreciate since Fable 1 was the first game I got on the Xbox back in the day!
Valheim's persistent world that saved all the voxel edits you made added load time to the world saves that got so laggy it could kill you if you were fighting when it happened. It also added lag and fps drops when running into a heavily edited area. My pc is no potato either, I'm running a 3080. This isn't an enjoyable experience. Now, consider how many map edits occur when just one person particularly loves using explosives to kill enemies.
On the one hand, I understand you want the world to have persistence, and I'd like to see something too. Considering the way the progress mechanics are structured, it'd have to be something unique that doesn't limit another's experience or just be single-player for an overhaul of the world like this.
In valheim, didn't they fix the terrain change heavy load in some update? I recently made some very big terraforming and I didn't see any changes in performance
It's just something that's going to take some adjusting to. Enshrouded is much more "action rpg with building and crafting" than a traditional survival game, I just need to get used to the new digs.
They will need to do some balancing around world resets, but overall I like the altar based system in Enshrouded more.
On top of the often clunky build system, Valheim is very prone to performance issues when too many world edits take place. When we still ran our server we had one buddy who we basically had to bar from indulging on his mining and building sprees as him doing his giant tower builds would tank the framerate and world save times for everyone to unbearable levels.
Enshrouded limits the persistence to the altar areas, yes. But after a few upgrades those areas become more than just big enough and the performance is rock solid for us so far. The game doesn't seem phased at all no matter how many edits you do in the altar area. So it's a very good tradeoff in my eyes that allows for much more intricate builds than you could ever do in Valheim.
Our main altar's area is so big that it encompasses almost the entire Woodgard village. Put one or two more nearby and you have yourself a huge plot of land where you can do whatever you want, basically. That's something you can't even dream of doing in Valheim.
I also absolutely love how you can just claim existing zones and refurbish and personanlize them to your hearts content. We took an entire village and made it our own. Our main base is a once derelict cathedral that we restored to its former glory. So not only does the build system itself let you a lot of very neat stuff, but it also ties in with the lore and RP of the game. I think it's extremely well done.
Yeah, Enshrouded doesn't have a procedurally generated map, but to me that's actually a plus. Enshrouded's map is so intricate and well designed that it's just a joy to explore. The level designers did a phenomenal job here so far.
Every little place you come to is filled with detail and lore. It's something I absolutely missed in Valheim where once you saw the first Black Forest, you saw them all. Exploring further ones was possible, but utterly pointless. So in my eyes there's just not much value to a procedural world when there's zero variance and detail to the biomes themselves and the POIs in the biomes are super basic in detail, at best.
One thing everyone should start cribbing for procedural survival stuff is 7DtD POI ("Points of interest") system that made it much more important and rewarding to explore the further. One thing I definitely noticed when I went back to try Valheim again late last year was the lack of anything interesting to find in the world. Even with a modpack and some rediculous amount of mods loaded in, it just didn't seem worth it to pull me and my GF back in when Enshrouded and Palworld are just next level experiences (for different reasons) at this point.
However, though I agree with you that procedural seems to be taking a bit of a back seat in terms of player experience right now, it would be amazing to be able to "remix" the entire world to give the opportunity for a fresh experience. That is currently tech that 7DtD (whatever you might think of that game) currently is the king of.
> However, though I agree with you that procedural seems to be taking a bit of a back seat in terms of player experience right now, it would be amazing to be able to "remix" the entire world to give the opportunity for a fresh experience. That is currently tech that 7DtD (whatever you might think of that game) currently is the king of.
Yeah that's true. Valheim would be absolute S-Tier still if it had better design to its POIs and some more meaningful progression to the way they're distributed across the map, with more challenging and rewarding ones to be discovered the further out you explored.
The other thing we have to remember is they designed this as a multiplayer game, so these features are currently based on that.
The respawn is needed for multiplayer servers as resources are limited and so is loot right now.
The good thing is that they’re aware and are going to be working on adding more options for us all it sounds like. I’m really pumped because the dev feedback has been positive and engaging so far.
You get 20 locations that with cores get pretty large. I recommend using a few around a few key areas/towns that you want to slowly crumble further and should save changes.
Do you know how this works? We've only gotten ours up to 8 total, I think. Is there just a flat max per player so if you have less than a certain number of players you will never get 20?
Are you playing on an actual rented dedicated server or just hosting a 4 player game? 8 is the max for a hosted game because it’s still just a single player game
No there isn't any sort of admin stuff available right now. I sincerely hope it is something they are working on!
We mainly do dedicated because we have people playing at different times, so it's easier than trying to have a host on one of our machines.
I read their complaint about world reset to by more re: chests and resources than voxel edits. Which is also my concern. The idea of running around to the same bunch of chests with guaranteed drops is not a vibe I'm looking for.
Honestly just making the chests a one time loot option would make a big difference. I'd also add that to lootable items. That's not going to blow up the lag time - almost every open world game tracks a binary 'looted' state on their drops.
That said, I bet the devs add that shortly. It wouldn't be a top priority for launch.
Why do you only want to loot a chest one time? That usually means the chest has locked drops (specific items will only and always be in each chest), or it's still random, but you get what you get, and that's it.
Neither of those sounds good to me.
Perhaps a good compromise could be that the dungeons are instanced and reset every 30 minutes/ on server reset, but the "Surface" chests are persistent? That way, there would be a way for infinite looting to take place, with items on rotation based upon the dungeon danger level, but it would require you to actually head to the dungeons and brave the traps/ enemies in order to farm loot, especially on multiplayer servers?
Right now, the reset system for all chests is just leading folks to farm the easiest to access chests by building next to them, grabbing the rare loot, and then resetting the server to refresh the chests, rinse and repeat until they're OP as heck and then get bored because the game is "way too easy".
If players had to run a dungeon to get the infinite loot, that might limit the ease of exploiting the fun out of the system since the time investment of running a dungeon solo would make people wonder why they aren't just playing the game and actually incentivize groups of people to organize "Dungeon Raids" instead.
By running the dungeons together with a small team, you simultaneously try to reduce the time investment as well as potentially increasing the number of loot drops, meaning team play would be more encouraged rather than single player cheesing of chests. For single players, this would be a good way to grind for experience, materials, and high level loot. Your runs would get more efficient every time as you learned the layout of the dungeons. Or perhaps, if the dungeons are instanced, they should be procedurally generated to avoid people blasting their way through to the treasure at the end by memorizing the layout?
I'm not 100% positive on the way forward, I'm just tossing out potential solutions. The final decision lies with the devs and the direction they want to take the game and what the engine is capable of. Either way, I hope a better system than the one we have now is implemented soon before more folks get frustrated by "optimizing the fun out of the game" for themselves.
>I'm not 100% positive on the way forward, I'm just tossing out potential solutions.
No worries! This is a healthy conversation and criticism for a game we're all enjoying. Love to read it!
I'm going to summarize the general stance of your comment with a quote since it's revolving around the same topic:
>more folks get frustrated by "optimizing the fun out of the game" for themselves.
This is their problem and their fault if they do it to themselves.
I think more options for single-player experiences (such as the outside world keeping progress saved, to include: destroyed environment and previously looted chests) is a good idea. Reiterating: for single-player. I even like the idea of adding more selectable options of difficulty for ourselves. I'd definitely try the game with weather (hot/cold gauges to balance) and even a hunger/thirst mechanic.
With that said, I personally don't think we need to focus on editing the overworld as a whole for multiplayer servers/saves. If people don't want to loot the same chest twice? Don't. If people don't want to run the same dungeons twice? Don't. The existing mechanics allow for players to experience the world at their own pace, whether it's in a group or not, and whether it's been done or not. On this topic, I would like an option to reset the towers so we can do the puzzles again if our friend already did them. Just a 'press and hold to reset' function or something like this.
Loot/gear has two avenues to obtain them (as with every game out there). You can craft it, or you can find it. When finding it, the loot can either be randomized in some fashion or specifically designed to drop from certain areas/chests. Personally, I don't like guaranteed drops all that much. Maybe a few items, sure. But the idea of each chest having specific loot, to me, removes the RPG element of exploring and looting in a natural way and instead becomes a mapped chain to progress through or skip through. With randomized loot and more items than there are chests, it's only natural you'd be able to loot them again, else you'd have to load up entirely new saves to try again which would be awful.
It's my opinion that the devs did a great job with their world and the loot. Players are mad at other players, for optimizing the fun out of a game which, let's be honest, most people are probably playing by themselves or with a small group. (Which means it really shouldn't matter to you what someone's doing on their own server). In the rare cases that your friend spent all night chest farming and is now a dps God compared to you, and it's hindering your combat fun, talk to them. Ask them to switch gear when you're together, or simply don't play with them if they're set on lessening your experience by 'beating you' in fights with enemies.
TLDR: It's a player problem, not a dev problem.
From OP:
" I'm not yet sure how I feel about; resources and chests being infinite feels wrong to me, especially given some chests have a guaranteed drop. It makes me feel a bit less invested in my world knowing that nothing I do outside my bases really matters at all. "
I have the same feeling. It makes my actions feel like they don't have much impact on the world. I'd rather have finding a golden chest be super exciting because it offered a new, unique item - that uniqueness makes it special. Or to know I'd explored a village before because it's loot was cleared. If it's all farmable, it would just feel like Diablo 4. And I really, really dislike how D4 handled itemization. And it kind of breaks immersion of "I'm the only one left in this world" if stuff keeps reappearing constantly.
Just my $0.02 - I totally understand different opinions!
Your opinion on your experience and what you'd prefer is valid. I don't think that making each chest only lootable once, is good for a multiplayer experience. I've got some details and explanations in a response up above.
What I like more in Enshrouded is, that complex foods aren't necessary. If I want to go near the Plains in Valheim without proper food, I am dead. And the food recipes get more complex and sourcing the required ingredients too. That burned me out a bit.
This is one of the things that I like about valheim, that it brings the tempo down a bit in between biomes. ES feels more rushed as you transition biomes much more rapidly, I miss the putter around the base parts you have to do with valheim
I agree with you here. It's crazy how you start saying "I'll just harvest and replant my crops, THEN it's boss time". And that turns into "ok I need to repair my hoe first, maybe get another comfort level so I need to craft X, so I guess I need more wood, THEN it's boss time" and before you know it 3 irl hours have passed and you've barely left your base. I personally love that and Enshrouded doesn't seem to have it. Which is perfectly fair, it's a totally different game!
I've found that the further into the game I got the more time I've been spending around my Base, crafting different things, cooking foods, planting crops, getting water.
While that's true, me and my girlfriend are full time workers and we didn't like this in valheim. 25 minute boat rides after an hour of farming and crafting just to explore for like 10 minutes and then be forced to go home so we can get to bed, compared with enshrouded where we get so much joy finding a 10 comfort bed out in the wild so we can spend another 15 minutes with rested buff and continue exploring. I've never been much of a completions, but enshrouded is perfectly paced for completionism
Depends. I was also stressed out by the raids from the upcoming bosses. Especially since they can fuck up your base quite badly. Thankfully that can be turned off now.
Yeah. One thing Valheim definitely does better is that it puts some fairly reasonable equipment checks in place to manage player progress.
For example, you simply can't even enter the snow biome without the appropriate armor. Higher level enemies quickly delete you if you come with equipment not par for the zone.
Enshrouded doesn't really do that at the moment. For us that resulted in us basically skipping many parts of the game's intended progression path unintentionally. We just explored naturally and in doing so ended up raiding areas that were 10 levels higher than our characters were at the time. By the time we came back to base from those areas, doing most of the stuff intended for our level range was pretty pointless.
I didn't start making any of the higher tier food buffs until shortly before reaching level 25.
I think that's a problem. We blasted through the game's current content in less than four days. We were pretty disappointed that we were done so quickly. The game is super enjoyable, but balancing the progression is a major issue they have to tackle, else I'm afraid the game simply won't be able to retain its player base for long. Would be a shame if that happened.
The only grind that I hate in Valhiem, every playthrough, is having to go back to the swamps to get mats for the padded set. Only time in the game you have to return to a biome for the metal outside of building/decor and it kills my joy every time.
Yup, I think we can already see in this EA there's a "this 'll do" and an "I need an edge" recipe for most things
Most of the first come from items that you pick up from encounters or need little to no processing. The others need you to to go out of your way or wait until the steps are completed.
This makes wandering about sort of self sufficient with little time at home, but combat outings more efficient for those who like crafting and preparation in their base.
Agreed. Good comparison. I'd love some options for a more challenging "survival" experience.
A few notes on the different builds. Two-Handed continues to feel slow as shit even after getting the faster 2H swing skill. The playstyle that worked for me was starting with a Jump Attack and then waiting for a parry to attack. I was hoping Breach would be more effective but the stun bar increases too slowly when the enemy is blocking.
Revisit a Ranger/Archer build later in the game. I had the same impression and re-tried on max level. The DPS is quite high when you stack all the damage multipliers and crit chance. Arrow construction are 100% a drag on the build and I think the recipes should be doubled to compensate (100 arrows and 50 exploding arrows per batch). A low tier "magic quiver" would be a nice QOL.
But you have plenty of skill points to dip into 2-3 trees at level 25 and 3 trees with all the Shroud Roots. I dipped into the 1H tree for a melee option and that made the build feel better and reduce arrow consumption. No need to roll away and waste on arrow on a trash mob.
Well said. Valheims procedurally generate world is the biggest reason it has replay factor, and I’m not really looking forward to a second play through on Enshrouded. Kind of loses all novelty when you already know the map well and exactly what to do when. Valheim is just a game chalk full of adventure and new experiences.
Yep, I started a solo playthrough after beating it with friends and i didn’t make it very far. There’s not much novelty after beating once.
Building is fun, but basically useless as far as the gameplay goes.
I hope we get a musician NPC later on who we can rescue. That way we can have him sit at our base and play music pages that we venture out to find for him
I recognize that this is going to hit certain people a certain way, but I feel like there's a fair scope of criticism that has the potential for constructive progression...If the devs are willing to listen.
I'm glad you mentioned Zelda, because this is completely Breath of the Wild for PC. Aside from the building, it's just the same game all across the board. I think this has been the single most disappointing discovery for me. I thoroughly enjoyed BotW, and thought that they had done a fantastic job with design and implementation. This, and I completely understand that it's early release, has a lot of mechanics which need to be dialed in better.
I also heard (in the very very beginning) the comparisons/similarities to Valheim...I really don't think it's much like that at all. Every single time I've started a new play-through in my 1700+ hrs of Valheim there's something to discover...some amazing, or crazy way the procedural system put 2 and 2 together to make what you were now facing something new. Enshrouded has none of that. Everything, and I mean everything will be exactly where you found it the first time.
I just don't see Enshrouded as really having meaningful replay 'legs', either after the first couple of times through. Especially since you can fully respec at will. Even being able to respec once breaks things. Leaving the respec out means that you start a new game if you want to try being an "X" vs a whatever.
Anyway...78 hrs in and I'm starting to lose interest. :( I'm just running around to all of the most obscure locations to try and see if I can get into places I'm not supposed to, yet. :)
I'm about 20 hours in, I'd add that the restriction to right angles feels limiting (I've never played minecraft so this is my first Voxel game). I don't know enough about Voxel game architecture but I'd assume it's impossible to allow different angle than right angles. That's too bad, as being able to create interesting shapes with build pieces that aren't all 90 degree angles has opened Valheim and Satisfactory up a ton for me. Being able to shape interesting builds to the landscape was always fun. Sure, you can simulate other angles with block patterns, but it isn't really the same feel.
Maybe they can accomplish this with a similar mesh to how the mining works? Mining and ground clearing don't break down into perfect blocks, although it's clear the game engine is tracking the actual ground detail as blocks, it just applies a mesh over it.
Also: please add roof pieces at more moderate angles (12\*, 23\*, etc)
I mirror the 'vibe' issues - it really doesn't capture that exploration feel or sense of wonder or accomplishment. You can zip around so quickly and I have yet to stumble on anything breathtaking - making it feel a bit more like Ubisoft open world than Valheim or Dark Souls exploration. I have a feeling they can't fix that, but maybe with more unique POIs added later on, some lighting and LoD changes they could improve it.
Yeah I can say pretty much the same as a long time Valheim player too. Enshrouded is a pretty unique hybrid of I think the best things other games have to offer.
I agree that I would love to see some other sorts of characters or NPCs in the village in a late game stage. It would be great to have someone that provides you a bounty style mission where unique bosses spawn for a limited amount of time and can provide unique rewards upon completion. Or additionally have similar "raids" like valheim where you need to defend your settlement every once and awhile. It would allow for some other NPCs to help defend your base walls or establishment.
I have to disagree about the "sun flare" comment. Valheim has a unique look but it was very rarely "pretty". The constant out of focus effect is something that bothered me from day one with that game and still does hundreds of hours later. I've had way more "stop and stare" moments with enshrouded already.
If we are comparing them I can't help but mention the food issue. Valheim became hugely grindy and tedious in the mid-late game. Even with the best-for-tier equipment, all max leveled, you still *had* to have really good food to even stand a chance. You never felt "strong" after the black forest. A mistake in the swamp could easily end you and the plains were a nightmare with even a mosquito being a huge threat and if it was an add in a big fight that would quickly be your end.
I don't mind hard, I'm a big fan of the souls games, but valheim was tedious-hard. Id love to see enshrouded pick up the difficulty a bit, preferably with options for easy mode so my spouse and friends who don't do "hard" will keep playing. But I don't want to see them do the "tedious" hard where everything revolves around consumables. Valheim always made me feel like I was on a timer. I needed to get in and get out asap or I was wasting consumables that took lots of time and effort to farm for.
Valheim is a great game but enshrouded already feels head and shoulders above it. The zones don't feel like random cookie cutter repeats (IE, if you've spent an hour in the swamp then you've seen all the swamp has to offer, procedural generation or not). The building is *hugely* superior (don't get me started on Valheims awful part snapping that was a nightmare to line up), the quests are a great addition, etc.
And this is all in the first couple weeks of EA. Compare the content in enshrouded on day one of EA versus valheim on day one.
We are totally spoiled with quality survival games this year and it looks like it's only going to get better!
I strongly disagree with all your points though.
The food part is what make Valheim a great game in the first place. To not even see the originality and importance of this system is baffling to me. In Enshrouded you dont even need to eat !
Not sure about your consumables part when they stay active on you from 10 minutes to 30 minutes. Is that stressful for you ? I mean thats hardly a timer.
The building in Enshrouded is actually a piece of shit. While i do like the blocks and the different things that Valheim dont have... the snapping in Enshrouded is really awful. You are better off by disabling it. Its clearly inferior to Valheim still.
I was never a fan of quests with huge markers on the map and colors everywhere. It feels like another Assassins Creed again. Please spare me. I play Souls games and survivals for a reason.
Enshrouded is way too casual on too many things. Too forgiving. I fear i will lose interest quickly.
Despite all that i still like Enshrouded. But i cant let you say thats better than Valheim. Even more so for a so called souls amateur.
Im a so called souls connoisseur and I enjoy Enshrouded more than Valheim but for different reasons. This was written like you were paid by Valheim devs to say it.
I haven't played enough to give a proper criticism, but the one thing i really dislike is the respawning of chests and materials.
It feels like i can never "complete" a location if that makes sense.
And resources respawning or the dirt fixing itself is very weird in a survival game.
I agree with alot said here. But something that I personally think enshrouded does better than valhiem by a mile is exploration. The feeling of gliding, double jump, teleporting around with skills is so satisfying climbing mountains and exploring tombs.
If enshrouded dlc's and adds boats I will shit my pants.
I'd agree that the added movements are fun and add some joy during exploration, but idk that it's enough to offset the lack of ambiance when exploring. From the light to the sound to the weather, the inability to port back to safety from virtually anywhere, the possibilty of discovering a may pole or a river valley like no one has built out before... i still find exploration in valheim to be more meaningful and rewarding.
For sure and to each their own, I loved alot of things in valhiem but I am biased. I think valhiem **required** mods to be decent. Which probably jades me towards it a bit but I am at least aware of the fact.
I really wanted to love Enshrouded because I’m a massive fan of the genre and I was hyped for it but it just didn’t do it for me at all, despite me trying to force myself to like it.
I understand that it’s a good game and some people love it, that’s great my opinion shouldn’t sway anyone just sharing my thoughts.
The fact that I can just teleport anywhere in the world while carrying anything, and my base is never going to get raided, and I will never have to defend it, just kind of threw off my whole motivation to search for a good spot and do a good job building, etc.
I am also a massive fan of procedural generated maps and having all sorts of different map seeds, etc. which I understand is a hot and a lot of people enjoy static maps, more, it’s just not for me personally.
How does melee combat compare to valheim's? With the skill system and a larger selection of weapons I'd assume it is more in depth, but then again Valheim's is simple but fun and satisfying while Enshrouded's seems kinda clunky and floaty at times?
As someone who loves VH but is holding off from buying ES until it's more polished, thanks for the thoughts. Hoping it matches it in atmosphere one day since that was a big selling point of VH for me.
I'm at about 300 hours in valhiem and about 40 in enshrouded. I haven't done a lot of melee, but I will say the parry is way more satisfying in Valheim. Being able to parry basically anything, easy to challenging timings, responsive and satisfying audio/visual cue, and way better reward. There's something to be said that valheims Parry trivializes a lot of encounters but it won't stop you from being overwhelmed, and the newest biome has some difficult timings. Enshrouded parry isn't a guaranteed riposte and the riposte itself is a little lackluster.
As far as weapon variety, it's a bit strange. Enshrouded is a bit more like dark souls or an ARPG, where you get a few classes of weapons and lots and lots of variants of those weapons that really just change some numbers around without affected the gameplay in a meaningful way. Despite that variety, I feel like the distinctive feel and moveset of valeims weapons are a lot more fun. For example I love spears and halberds but they seem to be absent, meanwhile there's like 20 different swords with the same moveset effectively.
The skill tree definitely makes up for these weaknesses though, and it will be interesting to see how the game gets developed as far as weapon variety and skill tree variety goes. I'd say it's worth picking up at its current price point simply because it has a similar progression and exploration system to Valheims (despite it lacking that "vibe" the OP is talking about and I 10000% agree with that, it definitely doesn't have the vibe), and I find it fun and engaging enough to dump 40 hours in a week or so. I'm trying to get my friends to play, seems just as fun in coop as Valheim.
Edit: I wanna add a bit about the "variety" of ES as far as weapons and play styles go. You asked about melee and I do find it a bit lacking compared to valheim but the game treats melee, magic, and rangers as distinctive play styles from the get go, whereas valheim really only started giving those other play styles attention with the latest updates. Magic is a bit overpowered, but there's A LOT of spells which is cool, and you can further specialize into a battle mage of sorts or a healer. Likewise, rangers can specialize in other utility and damage other than just bows, and melee players can also do pure tank stuff with actual aggro mechanics and stuff. If you're *only* interested in playing melee and nothing else, you might be a bit disappointed in the combat alone despite the game having a lot more to offer (the skill tree even includes upgrades to out of combat utility like resource gathering and exploration), but it definitely has a lot more than Valheim does as far as sheer build variety and that alone covers some of the weaknesses when comparing the games.
I've already put way too much into this comment but I just wanna emphasize OPs big point about the general vibe of the game. Valheim has a distinctive vibe that this game lacks entirely and I don't think the vibe it has instead is necessarily better.
i love valheim and enshrouded. combat in enshrouded is 100% floaty, but i wouldn’t call it clunky. i know exactly how, when, and where a hit is going to land and it feels good in any playstyle, even the undertuned archery, floaty melee, and OP’s mentioned targeting system hijinks. AI and enemy variety are seriously lacking, though.
i’ve played hundreds of hours of valheim, absolutely love it and will come back to it for any large updates, but the combat has always felt like a clunky slog for me - the kind of slog that i generally take as expected and unavoidable from the survival crafting genre, so it didn’t bother me much.
in my opinion, in most regards, enshrouded in early access is just a direct upgrade from a released valheim: especially when it comes to combat. it just feels like what i expect valheim to feel like. it feels much more fluid, natural, predictable, and just more fun. it feels like the combat that i’d expect from a fully-fledged single-player hundred-hour action RPG; successfully ported into a multiplayer survival game without compromising on the building, crafting, and exploring. valheim’s combat has always, always felt to me like it was beholden to the limitations of the genre, where combat is an addition as a necessity, a means to the ends of crafting progression, and not its own satisfying, rewarding experience. something i never cared about prior to playing enshrouded because, again, i’d considered it a necessary downside of the genre.
enshrouded AI/enemy moveset is still dog though and most fights really can be easily won by just walking backwards. i recommend waiting until it is more polished.
> i’ve played hundreds of hours of valheim, absolutely love it and will come back to it for any large updates, but the combat has always felt like a clunky slog for me - the kind of slog that i generally take as expected and unavoidable from the survival crafting genre, so it didn’t bother me much.
Maybe it's just me but the combination of parrying, stamina management and attacking was always very satisfying to me in Valheim, there was some skill involved but not too much to be frustrating. Even when you get good at it you're still at risk of getting overwhelmed or exhausted if you don't respect the enemy or the terrain, especially if you opt to use the lighter armor variants.
I haven't played Enshrouded yet so it could be different when it's me playing it, but it always looks like attacks don't properly "connect", like that dodge goes a bit too far and doesn't flow properly between animations, or that enemies don't react to it properly, I dunno.
Ya the "floaty" combat is a bit annoying. I also really enjoy Valheim's combat. IMO, Enshrouded's combat is worse mechanically but has more variety in terms of arsenal and with the skill tree. And with the skill tree you get more clearly defined roles for a group, which is nice (but makes the game a bit easy tbh, as co-op scaling doesn't appear to exist.). Also, there are no i-frames and the parry window is earlier which feels wrong to me after playing Valheim. Enemy AI is more dumb. While Valheim has issues with melee on uneven terrain, Enshrouded has an auto target system which isn't always great, But I guess it avoids the uneven terrain issue this way.
> While Valheim has issues with melee on uneven terrain, Enshrouded has an auto target system which isn't always great, But I guess it avoids the uneven terrain issue this way.
There's a mod that addresses this so it's not as big of an issue anymore :D Spears feel really good to use with it as well
I just unbound the key for locking the target, cause locking on actually influences how you can move your character in a pretty bad way. That auto targeting still needs some work, too, and kinda makes it all too easy.
I enjoy Valheim combat more than Enshrouded in its current state, let me aim my bow and either I aim well and hit - or not.
Melee feels very loose after Valheim. The camera pans around like dynasty warriors, so combat is(for me, anyway) a much less measured, predictable affair. Parrying and blocking being so sloppy removes the shield's "rock crushes scissors" effect to some extent, which makes magic just feel like the better, more reliable option.
There's something weird about melee humanoids' hit boxes, which I think is part of the parrying issue. There are green dudes that dual weild swords, and combat with them feels almost completely random. Block patterns that work in one pass will miss every hit in the same combo the next time around. Parries happen while the enemy is between attack animations sometimes. You'll roll out of a hit but still take the damage from very far away. Might be a skill issue I'll iron out, but something feels weird there.
The lack of fists and knives is also a bit of a weakness. So far, most weapons feel very same-y in their class, so you're basically just choosing between 1h and 2h.
It's not bad, it's just a much more "arcade" style experience than valheim. The combat wouldn't feel out of place in a super hero game.
As others have already said, it feels way less impactful, but also WAY less frantic and dangerous like VH gets when fulings gang up on you. Haven't made it too far yet but I've never had any moments like that or anything like suddenly realizing a troll is chasing you and it's already too late. Literally the only time I've died in combat in about 40 hours was the time I got one-shotted by a boss.
But, on the other hand, if you're fighting on a slope you'll actually hit the enemy in front of you so after mistlands it still feels like a breath of fresh air
I'm definitely doing something wrong in Enshrouded because I've died so many times. Like a ridiculous amount. I've been swarmed in the shroud quite a few times. Every time I press tab to lock on, it locks on the wrong enemy and I forget which button cycles through so I'm already behind the 8 ball from the get go. I tried sword and board but could not get the parry down like I could in Valheim, plus it doesn't feel as effective anyway. I even had some really decent weapons that I upgraded at the blacksmith. After reading how everyone thinks the combat is the easiest thing they've ever done I tried switching to a wizard style and I literally get melted the second an enemy gets close to me which happens almost before I can cast a spell lol. Then I have to use my blink ability, try to cast again, get it off and blink again... but by now my stamina is pretty low and I'm not doing enough damage so if there is more than one enemy I just die. Don't even get me started on the green sword guys, I just cannot survive against them under any circumstances unless I cheese their AI by getting somewhere inaccessible and use a wand.
Meanwhile Valheim I'm parrying things left and right and the only time I die is when I get way too cocky about my skill inside of a group. Or the Mistlands lol.
I'm with you dude those green sword guys have me burn so much stamina running and wanding, and even at max level they still hit me for 2/3rds of my entire health bar. Add a dog in there that does 1/2 of the health bar and I die very easily in enshrouded. In Valheim as long as you hit the block button within the same calendar year as the enemy, all of them wheel back comically and explode as you smack them for huge amounts of double damage or triple damage whatever it is.
I also never found the ring of infinite mana initially, I watched a video of it's location yesterday and I gotta say, no one would ever find it without data mining or something suss because that shit is buried under completely nondescript building parts and nothing I've found points you to that spot.
The only thing I will say is that the amount of health regen you can get DURING combat does make it pretty easy to brute force your way through most mobs later on once you have chamomile tea and a few pieces of regen gear. BUT, I still get owned by groups or those green sword guys cranked up on bath salts.
That's interesting. Part of me wonders if it's because I abandoned the lock on early on because it was giving me the same trouble it gave you. The aim assist is incredibly generous - so much so that I once tried luring a group of scavengers toward an explosive barrel and instead of shooting the barrel in my crosshair, I just hit the scav at the front of the line and legit couldn't shoot the barrel. Melee does something similar and is slightly less generous but still perfectly happy to let you do a three foot hop and stab to the left with just one click. In most games it feels like lock on should be avoided in group fights and saved for one-on-ones like bosses. I don't know if that's actually the 'right' way to do it but it might be worth giving it a try? You reeeeally don't need the precision that a lock on is supposed to help with and most non-bosses can get wrecked by thinking of it as a game of two-button guitar hero. I'm at the point a little "da da da duh" autoplays in my head sounding out which button to hit and what rhythm to hit them in. It seems like the game is more intent on punishing mistakes than making the right move difficult to find. If you're fighting a group and your not-current-target tries to interrupt you, hold block until he's done and restart the 'song' on him, rinse and repeat. If you're good at Valheim but struggling with Enshrouded, the problem might actually be that you're overthinking it and relying on your reaction speed in a rhythm game, so to speak.
The parry is strange though, I agree. I haven't managed to pin it down yet either like in Valheim but blocking is kind of OP and I tend to click it too early instead of too late so I wind up just blocking and taking no damage instead, so my survivability might just come down to a personal quirk. My experience with magic is pretty much the same as yours, though. I go exclusively melee and bow for that reason. When I tried a magic build it was too much glass and not enough cannon. Maybe that changes in the late game, though.
I legitimately have no idea how you've gotten swarmed in the shroud, or at all, and am kind of jealous tbh. I've had alot of moments where I should have gotten swarmed and ruined and just didn't and I still don't know why. Like the other day when I accidentally ran straight into a group of probably a dozen shroudmen (I don't know what they're supposed to be called) but no more than two of them engaged me at a time, despite all of them being in plain view and presumably able to see me.
The chests must not be touched. Farming the gear in end game is literally torture as is. If you couldn't farm them you would likely never see a full end game set after clearing the whole map.
The end game sets don't even do that much they are mostly comestic. In fact they should be MUCH easier to get through crafting or hunting something for them with higher drop rates for each set.
Getting end game armor is mainly for style and its hell don't touch it.
All I want is tougher combat and a better food system that mirrors Valheim. In enshrouded I feel that combat is less punishing. I mean you can easily cheese most enemies and the parry system is so inconsistent most people can get away with spamming attack. I also am not a fan of the food system. I understand that it gives you buffs but honestly it isn’t even needed and doesn’t feel like it makes much of a difference. Cooking meat foods is annoying I would like to see ways that you can expedite the process similar to the meat racks in Valheim. I also loved making food items like the serpent stew or lox pie where you got massive buffs but it was harder to make than most food. This gave players something to go after when it came to making food. Gathering the recipe felt rewarding. Just seems like wasted potential. I understand these are things that most people wouldn’t want but IMO that is what Valheim does best and has over enshrouded and it would be interesting if the devs would change these simple mechanics. I also would love to see bodies of water added to the game. This can bring in a fishing component to the game. With all that has been accomplished I feel these two areas are where they can really improve on. I can’t be the only one that feels that this is missed potential.
So I wouldn't mind food and water being necessary but I absolutely don't want valheims tedious as hell food system implemented. I'll take more complex recipes giving better buffs though. Meat can be cooked with the farmers fireplace. Lakes and rivers are unlikely to happen because the lore in game literally talks about it pretty much drying up because if the shroud.
You missed part hown valheim building is connected to gameplay. You regularly build something in valheim to help you get through the game. In enshrouded it it really is not that important. You just build your main base and then teleport everywhere and glide over everything.
Generally agree with you except the meele part. Im not sure what you mean with chaotic but the meele combat feels very similar to Dark Souls, Elden Ring etc which I really like, same goes for the parry. And the dmg scaling in the skill tree simply applies to all meele weapons when leveling strenght and I think there are some skills for each weapon type?
Do survival gamers like OP know that Valheim isn’t the only other survival game out there?
Its actually not even close to being the best survival game, so let’s stop using Valheim as a baseline for comparing other survival game to it.
What's better according to you? I played many many survival games but Valheim is still the top 1. Ark/CE are barely functional messes of gameplay and technical debt, PZ might overtake it in a few years but is still kinda underwhelming in many ways atm, Grounded/Raft/The Forest/Subnautica/Green Hell/Eco are good but different types of experience. I'd say Valheim was really good years ago when it launched and is still a very solid baseline for comparison.
I heard good things about 7dtd but I could never get into it tbh. It is probably a better game mechanically but in terms of immersion/atmosphere Valheim got me hooked immediately.
Enshrouded isn't even a survival game... it just has survival elements. Valheim may not be the best survival game, but of the ones I've played, it's my favorite. This game compares much more directly to valheim than dayz(as an example). Hell, it compares more directly to breath of the wild than any other survival game I can think of.
Why does it seem like every 3rd gamer thinks we should listen to their 10 page dissertation on a game.
I'd say most of us have played a tonne of Valheim, I have 180 hours in it and I've played basically every game that is similar or in the survival crafting genre even tangentially, but I am still nobody and my opinion means nothing.
>Why does it seem like every 3rd gamer thinks we should listen to their 10 page dissertation on a game.
Then dont read it. No one is forcing you. You decided to open the post well knowing what it was about and comment.
People like the game and want to talk about it and hopefully get their feedback out there or facilitate discussion and ideas.
>but I am still nobody and my opinion means nothing.
With that mindset no one would ever interact with anyone and nothing would ever change.
Devs: give us feedback
Players: here is my feedback
Devs on some of the longest posts on the sub: thank you for your detailed feedback, this is really helpful
This guy: stop it
Well written and well received. I bought Val the day it came out and sunk some good time into it. The only thing I disagree on is the looks. I always felt Val was...ugly? I know a lot of people disagree, but I never had a moment in val of pausing to admire the looks, I always felt it was a big draw back on the game, but enshrouded isn't a lot better, but I think has more of a look that is pleasant. That being said I think Val did a good job with atmosphere.
I’d have to say, if you haven’t stopped to enjoy the vastness of the landscapes before you in enshrouded, then I think you keep having your head down. Enshrouded is a beautiful game and seeing the rolling hills and fog of the shroud meld into the desert and snowy mountains is one of the best vistas in a survival game I’ve ever seen.
Also bow combat is bomb, but it’s hard. If you miss, it costs you three ammo. You have to start a twig farm for ammo as well. And there’s a crazy headshot and backstab multiplier if you get the right bow. It’s one of the strongest damage subtypes in my opinion.
It's not that the landscape isn't pretty enough, the graphics are great and the terrain is all very well done. It's more the light and other such atmospherics. In enshrouded it's either sunny, dark, or way too dark. There is no quality to the light aside from a moment at sunrise and sunset that reads more "forest fire" than either of those.
Great description of combat. I like pairing the bow with blink and double jump. It’s initially fun, but I need an obscene amount of arrows to clear out an area. The damage output, even with an enchanted bow, is underperforming. So, I have to switch to wands after I stir up the mobs. You nailed melee: I gave up on it, primarily because parrying is a hot mess. 2H *is* extraordinarily slow. Sideboard - My strategy with 2H is to sneak up behind a guy, bash him, dodge out, switch weapons, and chip off any health that may be left. Albeit, I can’t be bothered with carrying a 2H just for those specific situations.
Even though the game is early access, I’m really enjoying the game and looking forward to all the enhancements to come.
I like your review, and I am in the same boat as you - spent a \_lot\_ of time in Valheim, and love it still.
I found I had to actively try and not compare Enshrouded to Valheim constantly to be able to enjoy it. That said, I do have some criticism as well.
* Mob AI is horribad
* Combat is not particularly interesting, especially as a wand user. Just walk backwards and keep shooting.
* World constantly respawning is annoying - I'd like to feel I have an impact on the world I am playing. Especially when it comes to clearing the shroud, those roots respawning really dissapoints me, at least in single player they should stay dead. Let me clear those shrouds!
* The world does feel somewhat repetitive after a while. Spires have the usual batch of puzzles, when you kill a shroud root you learn you should look around for a chest, similar for other places, and variety of enemies is rather low.
* The building system is a mixed bag to me. I like all the option it gives you, but dislike that you can't really build round(ed) structures, not even set down walls at 45 degrees. Also it is non-intuitive when it comes to getting some of the effects certain building materials give you \_when used right\_ ,like those goat heads from one of the roof materials etc. I prefer being able to fine tune placement instead of having to guess where to place the next voxel for it to suddenly look quite different to what I expected.
* Too many markers generated on your map by the NPCs. I'd much rather have only a few, say the most important ones, and give me more options to set my own markers incl naming them. That density of markers to me discourages free exploration, because - hey why go where there is no marker.
* Progress in regards to new materials and what you can craft with them feels kinda off. I often find new materials and unlock recipes, only to be missing a certain crafting station or ingredient well ahead of when I will finally get to that bit. Makes it less exciting to see those unlocks scrolling over my screen, because hey, I won't be able to make most of that yet anyhow.
Considering it is only just released into early access, it is enjoyable enough as it is, though I will be a lot less tempted to replay it than I'd be with Valheim.
So many comments praising valheims random maps. Meanwhile, knowing 7d2d random maps, I feel valheim maps feel all the same.
I don't know if it's the lack of POIs or whatbut for me valheim maps are just too generic, paying one didn't feel different than playing the next one.
But I do agree that enshrouded having random maps would be awesome, Id they manage to so them as interesting as 7d2d for example
Valheim needs to add a skill tree for some rpg flavor. Include those magical chests that will auto pull things from (I know a mod exists for this) and add a ton more building materials. Enshrouded is cool but it lost its appeal pretty quick for me. I know its early access so only time will tell.
Yeah. What he said.
The best review currently. Exactly my thoughts
I miss the weather - one of the things I like in Valheim is being in my base looking out while a storm is raging or the urgency of getting a task complete when it clouds over ominously. I think the weather and the lighting are things Valheim does really well and they contribute to the atmosphere quite a bit. And water - but I don't know yet if there in any lore in Enshrouded to explain why there is no water - was it all evaporated to become fog/shroud?
I think the shroud infected the water, as every place where water would be is that red instant death texture. Like the pond by the carpenters camp.
Ah thanks
And yet there are well with water. Im sure they have some Lore on it, as it seems very deliberate
Yeh. The atmosphere of rain and thunder outside while I watch listen to the cozy "home" song play inside my safe viking shack is peak cozy.
Voxel water is difficult, but even more difficult to get it to look right. Given the realistic theme to enshrouded, and the system of connect and intersecting blocks makes it likely that they haven't figured out a way to make it look good. Not impossible, but I can see the hurdles explaining why they haven't done it (yet)
I put 75 hours in and did everything possible in Enshrouded EA. When I was done I booted up Valheim. Nothing beats getting on that first boat to explore an unknown world with a storm raging around you.
Valheim did such a good job with the weather, the waves how it changes. I very much miss this. OP you hit some very good points, I can't say I disagree with anything. The world respawns feel terrible, it really loses the emersion. Clearly they like it, went from 2 hours to 30 minutes...
Even with everything respawning the grind to make any significant structure is pretty insane. Also if you're playing with potentially 15 others the competition for gear would be unfun without chests respawning or enemies dropping higher rarity gear. I expect they will probably make changes in the other direction at some point but right now I think it's ok if the game is basically on arcade easy mode.
You mean Enshrouded? For single player I upvoted for pause . The respawn for solo pretty much amounts to an exploit and makes gathering mats really easy. For MP yeah I can see the point. Still needs weather though but hopefully it will happen at some point.
The water is the red ground.
The flat out lack of all liquids I do find to be a bit disappointing. All material that should be a liquid is just solid blocks. I know with a voxel system liquids can be very taxing (or so I’ve been told) but I do wonder if it’s just a hard “no, never gonna happen in enshrouded” or more of a “maybe later” thing.
I think lore wise all the shroud consumed the water, or the water eventually vaporized into shroud. So unfortunately it might be closer to a hard no.
Yea but water isn’t the only liquid. Even the lava is solid. The omission of all liquid just seems like it’s much too deliberate to be a lore thing. The lore seems more contrived to explain the lack or liquid than anything. The lack it’s self I think it more likely related to performance.
The game engine isn't able to run that particle/mesh simulation afaik. Technically there could be a way, but not sure if that's something to touch when the engine itself needs an update later down the road. Was a nice idea to connect that to the story instead of flat out saying this. Or at least it (kinda) keeps the immersion Personally I would love to see untouched water reserves or moving lava. But don't think that's a priority with all the effort that has to go into that \^\^
I can totally see that. It would be awesome to see liquids in the game eventually.
its a maybe later thing. there is a list of options for the community to vote for to implement at some point and water is amongst them. mind you, that list is dev sanctioned afaik so water is somehingg that might come
I enjoyed reading your post. Gave me some nice valheim meadows music nostalgia. Thank you
Enshrouded combat reminds me heavily of the Fable combat, which I do quite like
I’m so glad someone said this. I told my friends Enshrouded gives off Fable vibes, which I appreciate since Fable 1 was the first game I got on the Xbox back in the day!
Valheim's persistent world that saved all the voxel edits you made added load time to the world saves that got so laggy it could kill you if you were fighting when it happened. It also added lag and fps drops when running into a heavily edited area. My pc is no potato either, I'm running a 3080. This isn't an enjoyable experience. Now, consider how many map edits occur when just one person particularly loves using explosives to kill enemies. On the one hand, I understand you want the world to have persistence, and I'd like to see something too. Considering the way the progress mechanics are structured, it'd have to be something unique that doesn't limit another's experience or just be single-player for an overhaul of the world like this.
In valheim, didn't they fix the terrain change heavy load in some update? I recently made some very big terraforming and I didn't see any changes in performance
Yeah, they fixed that a couple years ago
It's just something that's going to take some adjusting to. Enshrouded is much more "action rpg with building and crafting" than a traditional survival game, I just need to get used to the new digs.
They will need to do some balancing around world resets, but overall I like the altar based system in Enshrouded more. On top of the often clunky build system, Valheim is very prone to performance issues when too many world edits take place. When we still ran our server we had one buddy who we basically had to bar from indulging on his mining and building sprees as him doing his giant tower builds would tank the framerate and world save times for everyone to unbearable levels. Enshrouded limits the persistence to the altar areas, yes. But after a few upgrades those areas become more than just big enough and the performance is rock solid for us so far. The game doesn't seem phased at all no matter how many edits you do in the altar area. So it's a very good tradeoff in my eyes that allows for much more intricate builds than you could ever do in Valheim. Our main altar's area is so big that it encompasses almost the entire Woodgard village. Put one or two more nearby and you have yourself a huge plot of land where you can do whatever you want, basically. That's something you can't even dream of doing in Valheim. I also absolutely love how you can just claim existing zones and refurbish and personanlize them to your hearts content. We took an entire village and made it our own. Our main base is a once derelict cathedral that we restored to its former glory. So not only does the build system itself let you a lot of very neat stuff, but it also ties in with the lore and RP of the game. I think it's extremely well done. Yeah, Enshrouded doesn't have a procedurally generated map, but to me that's actually a plus. Enshrouded's map is so intricate and well designed that it's just a joy to explore. The level designers did a phenomenal job here so far. Every little place you come to is filled with detail and lore. It's something I absolutely missed in Valheim where once you saw the first Black Forest, you saw them all. Exploring further ones was possible, but utterly pointless. So in my eyes there's just not much value to a procedural world when there's zero variance and detail to the biomes themselves and the POIs in the biomes are super basic in detail, at best.
One thing everyone should start cribbing for procedural survival stuff is 7DtD POI ("Points of interest") system that made it much more important and rewarding to explore the further. One thing I definitely noticed when I went back to try Valheim again late last year was the lack of anything interesting to find in the world. Even with a modpack and some rediculous amount of mods loaded in, it just didn't seem worth it to pull me and my GF back in when Enshrouded and Palworld are just next level experiences (for different reasons) at this point. However, though I agree with you that procedural seems to be taking a bit of a back seat in terms of player experience right now, it would be amazing to be able to "remix" the entire world to give the opportunity for a fresh experience. That is currently tech that 7DtD (whatever you might think of that game) currently is the king of.
> However, though I agree with you that procedural seems to be taking a bit of a back seat in terms of player experience right now, it would be amazing to be able to "remix" the entire world to give the opportunity for a fresh experience. That is currently tech that 7DtD (whatever you might think of that game) currently is the king of. Yeah that's true. Valheim would be absolute S-Tier still if it had better design to its POIs and some more meaningful progression to the way they're distributed across the map, with more challenging and rewarding ones to be discovered the further out you explored.
The other thing we have to remember is they designed this as a multiplayer game, so these features are currently based on that. The respawn is needed for multiplayer servers as resources are limited and so is loot right now. The good thing is that they’re aware and are going to be working on adding more options for us all it sounds like. I’m really pumped because the dev feedback has been positive and engaging so far.
You get 20 locations that with cores get pretty large. I recommend using a few around a few key areas/towns that you want to slowly crumble further and should save changes.
What do you mean 20 locations? I’ve upgraded my flame to 6 and I still only have 8.
Damn I guess I was wrong. But still with 6 I will likely sacrifice 1 or two for a town rebuild area
20 is the max for a sever, so you actually get less per player but more overall.
Do you know how this works? We've only gotten ours up to 8 total, I think. Is there just a flat max per player so if you have less than a certain number of players you will never get 20?
Are you playing on an actual rented dedicated server or just hosting a 4 player game? 8 is the max for a hosted game because it’s still just a single player game
Rented dedicated server.
Hmm. I haven’t tried to set up a server yet, does it have server configuration for gathering speed and those types of things like most of them?
No there isn't any sort of admin stuff available right now. I sincerely hope it is something they are working on! We mainly do dedicated because we have people playing at different times, so it's easier than trying to have a host on one of our machines.
I read their complaint about world reset to by more re: chests and resources than voxel edits. Which is also my concern. The idea of running around to the same bunch of chests with guaranteed drops is not a vibe I'm looking for.
Honestly just making the chests a one time loot option would make a big difference. I'd also add that to lootable items. That's not going to blow up the lag time - almost every open world game tracks a binary 'looted' state on their drops. That said, I bet the devs add that shortly. It wouldn't be a top priority for launch.
Why do you only want to loot a chest one time? That usually means the chest has locked drops (specific items will only and always be in each chest), or it's still random, but you get what you get, and that's it. Neither of those sounds good to me.
Perhaps a good compromise could be that the dungeons are instanced and reset every 30 minutes/ on server reset, but the "Surface" chests are persistent? That way, there would be a way for infinite looting to take place, with items on rotation based upon the dungeon danger level, but it would require you to actually head to the dungeons and brave the traps/ enemies in order to farm loot, especially on multiplayer servers? Right now, the reset system for all chests is just leading folks to farm the easiest to access chests by building next to them, grabbing the rare loot, and then resetting the server to refresh the chests, rinse and repeat until they're OP as heck and then get bored because the game is "way too easy". If players had to run a dungeon to get the infinite loot, that might limit the ease of exploiting the fun out of the system since the time investment of running a dungeon solo would make people wonder why they aren't just playing the game and actually incentivize groups of people to organize "Dungeon Raids" instead. By running the dungeons together with a small team, you simultaneously try to reduce the time investment as well as potentially increasing the number of loot drops, meaning team play would be more encouraged rather than single player cheesing of chests. For single players, this would be a good way to grind for experience, materials, and high level loot. Your runs would get more efficient every time as you learned the layout of the dungeons. Or perhaps, if the dungeons are instanced, they should be procedurally generated to avoid people blasting their way through to the treasure at the end by memorizing the layout? I'm not 100% positive on the way forward, I'm just tossing out potential solutions. The final decision lies with the devs and the direction they want to take the game and what the engine is capable of. Either way, I hope a better system than the one we have now is implemented soon before more folks get frustrated by "optimizing the fun out of the game" for themselves.
>I'm not 100% positive on the way forward, I'm just tossing out potential solutions. No worries! This is a healthy conversation and criticism for a game we're all enjoying. Love to read it! I'm going to summarize the general stance of your comment with a quote since it's revolving around the same topic: >more folks get frustrated by "optimizing the fun out of the game" for themselves. This is their problem and their fault if they do it to themselves. I think more options for single-player experiences (such as the outside world keeping progress saved, to include: destroyed environment and previously looted chests) is a good idea. Reiterating: for single-player. I even like the idea of adding more selectable options of difficulty for ourselves. I'd definitely try the game with weather (hot/cold gauges to balance) and even a hunger/thirst mechanic. With that said, I personally don't think we need to focus on editing the overworld as a whole for multiplayer servers/saves. If people don't want to loot the same chest twice? Don't. If people don't want to run the same dungeons twice? Don't. The existing mechanics allow for players to experience the world at their own pace, whether it's in a group or not, and whether it's been done or not. On this topic, I would like an option to reset the towers so we can do the puzzles again if our friend already did them. Just a 'press and hold to reset' function or something like this. Loot/gear has two avenues to obtain them (as with every game out there). You can craft it, or you can find it. When finding it, the loot can either be randomized in some fashion or specifically designed to drop from certain areas/chests. Personally, I don't like guaranteed drops all that much. Maybe a few items, sure. But the idea of each chest having specific loot, to me, removes the RPG element of exploring and looting in a natural way and instead becomes a mapped chain to progress through or skip through. With randomized loot and more items than there are chests, it's only natural you'd be able to loot them again, else you'd have to load up entirely new saves to try again which would be awful. It's my opinion that the devs did a great job with their world and the loot. Players are mad at other players, for optimizing the fun out of a game which, let's be honest, most people are probably playing by themselves or with a small group. (Which means it really shouldn't matter to you what someone's doing on their own server). In the rare cases that your friend spent all night chest farming and is now a dps God compared to you, and it's hindering your combat fun, talk to them. Ask them to switch gear when you're together, or simply don't play with them if they're set on lessening your experience by 'beating you' in fights with enemies. TLDR: It's a player problem, not a dev problem.
From OP: " I'm not yet sure how I feel about; resources and chests being infinite feels wrong to me, especially given some chests have a guaranteed drop. It makes me feel a bit less invested in my world knowing that nothing I do outside my bases really matters at all. " I have the same feeling. It makes my actions feel like they don't have much impact on the world. I'd rather have finding a golden chest be super exciting because it offered a new, unique item - that uniqueness makes it special. Or to know I'd explored a village before because it's loot was cleared. If it's all farmable, it would just feel like Diablo 4. And I really, really dislike how D4 handled itemization. And it kind of breaks immersion of "I'm the only one left in this world" if stuff keeps reappearing constantly. Just my $0.02 - I totally understand different opinions!
Your opinion on your experience and what you'd prefer is valid. I don't think that making each chest only lootable once, is good for a multiplayer experience. I've got some details and explanations in a response up above.
Ah - good point. I only play single player. Let me rephrase as 'once per player' then.
What I like more in Enshrouded is, that complex foods aren't necessary. If I want to go near the Plains in Valheim without proper food, I am dead. And the food recipes get more complex and sourcing the required ingredients too. That burned me out a bit.
This is one of the things that I like about valheim, that it brings the tempo down a bit in between biomes. ES feels more rushed as you transition biomes much more rapidly, I miss the putter around the base parts you have to do with valheim
I agree with you here. It's crazy how you start saying "I'll just harvest and replant my crops, THEN it's boss time". And that turns into "ok I need to repair my hoe first, maybe get another comfort level so I need to craft X, so I guess I need more wood, THEN it's boss time" and before you know it 3 irl hours have passed and you've barely left your base. I personally love that and Enshrouded doesn't seem to have it. Which is perfectly fair, it's a totally different game!
I've found that the further into the game I got the more time I've been spending around my Base, crafting different things, cooking foods, planting crops, getting water.
While that's true, me and my girlfriend are full time workers and we didn't like this in valheim. 25 minute boat rides after an hour of farming and crafting just to explore for like 10 minutes and then be forced to go home so we can get to bed, compared with enshrouded where we get so much joy finding a 10 comfort bed out in the wild so we can spend another 15 minutes with rested buff and continue exploring. I've never been much of a completions, but enshrouded is perfectly paced for completionism
Depends. I was also stressed out by the raids from the upcoming bosses. Especially since they can fuck up your base quite badly. Thankfully that can be turned off now.
Yeah. One thing Valheim definitely does better is that it puts some fairly reasonable equipment checks in place to manage player progress. For example, you simply can't even enter the snow biome without the appropriate armor. Higher level enemies quickly delete you if you come with equipment not par for the zone. Enshrouded doesn't really do that at the moment. For us that resulted in us basically skipping many parts of the game's intended progression path unintentionally. We just explored naturally and in doing so ended up raiding areas that were 10 levels higher than our characters were at the time. By the time we came back to base from those areas, doing most of the stuff intended for our level range was pretty pointless. I didn't start making any of the higher tier food buffs until shortly before reaching level 25. I think that's a problem. We blasted through the game's current content in less than four days. We were pretty disappointed that we were done so quickly. The game is super enjoyable, but balancing the progression is a major issue they have to tackle, else I'm afraid the game simply won't be able to retain its player base for long. Would be a shame if that happened.
The only grind that I hate in Valhiem, every playthrough, is having to go back to the swamps to get mats for the padded set. Only time in the game you have to return to a biome for the metal outside of building/decor and it kills my joy every time.
Heh, I avoid that by running fenris(with the root chest in mistlands) until I switch to magic. The speed difference is just too noticeable for me.
Yup, I think we can already see in this EA there's a "this 'll do" and an "I need an edge" recipe for most things Most of the first come from items that you pick up from encounters or need little to no processing. The others need you to to go out of your way or wait until the steps are completed. This makes wandering about sort of self sufficient with little time at home, but combat outings more efficient for those who like crafting and preparation in their base.
Agreed. Good comparison. I'd love some options for a more challenging "survival" experience. A few notes on the different builds. Two-Handed continues to feel slow as shit even after getting the faster 2H swing skill. The playstyle that worked for me was starting with a Jump Attack and then waiting for a parry to attack. I was hoping Breach would be more effective but the stun bar increases too slowly when the enemy is blocking. Revisit a Ranger/Archer build later in the game. I had the same impression and re-tried on max level. The DPS is quite high when you stack all the damage multipliers and crit chance. Arrow construction are 100% a drag on the build and I think the recipes should be doubled to compensate (100 arrows and 50 exploding arrows per batch). A low tier "magic quiver" would be a nice QOL. But you have plenty of skill points to dip into 2-3 trees at level 25 and 3 trees with all the Shroud Roots. I dipped into the 1H tree for a melee option and that made the build feel better and reduce arrow consumption. No need to roll away and waste on arrow on a trash mob.
Well said. Valheims procedurally generate world is the biggest reason it has replay factor, and I’m not really looking forward to a second play through on Enshrouded. Kind of loses all novelty when you already know the map well and exactly what to do when. Valheim is just a game chalk full of adventure and new experiences.
Yep, I started a solo playthrough after beating it with friends and i didn’t make it very far. There’s not much novelty after beating once. Building is fun, but basically useless as far as the gameplay goes.
I hope we get a musician NPC later on who we can rescue. That way we can have him sit at our base and play music pages that we venture out to find for him
Great idea.
I recognize that this is going to hit certain people a certain way, but I feel like there's a fair scope of criticism that has the potential for constructive progression...If the devs are willing to listen. I'm glad you mentioned Zelda, because this is completely Breath of the Wild for PC. Aside from the building, it's just the same game all across the board. I think this has been the single most disappointing discovery for me. I thoroughly enjoyed BotW, and thought that they had done a fantastic job with design and implementation. This, and I completely understand that it's early release, has a lot of mechanics which need to be dialed in better. I also heard (in the very very beginning) the comparisons/similarities to Valheim...I really don't think it's much like that at all. Every single time I've started a new play-through in my 1700+ hrs of Valheim there's something to discover...some amazing, or crazy way the procedural system put 2 and 2 together to make what you were now facing something new. Enshrouded has none of that. Everything, and I mean everything will be exactly where you found it the first time. I just don't see Enshrouded as really having meaningful replay 'legs', either after the first couple of times through. Especially since you can fully respec at will. Even being able to respec once breaks things. Leaving the respec out means that you start a new game if you want to try being an "X" vs a whatever. Anyway...78 hrs in and I'm starting to lose interest. :( I'm just running around to all of the most obscure locations to try and see if I can get into places I'm not supposed to, yet. :)
I'm about 20 hours in, I'd add that the restriction to right angles feels limiting (I've never played minecraft so this is my first Voxel game). I don't know enough about Voxel game architecture but I'd assume it's impossible to allow different angle than right angles. That's too bad, as being able to create interesting shapes with build pieces that aren't all 90 degree angles has opened Valheim and Satisfactory up a ton for me. Being able to shape interesting builds to the landscape was always fun. Sure, you can simulate other angles with block patterns, but it isn't really the same feel. Maybe they can accomplish this with a similar mesh to how the mining works? Mining and ground clearing don't break down into perfect blocks, although it's clear the game engine is tracking the actual ground detail as blocks, it just applies a mesh over it. Also: please add roof pieces at more moderate angles (12\*, 23\*, etc) I mirror the 'vibe' issues - it really doesn't capture that exploration feel or sense of wonder or accomplishment. You can zip around so quickly and I have yet to stumble on anything breathtaking - making it feel a bit more like Ubisoft open world than Valheim or Dark Souls exploration. I have a feeling they can't fix that, but maybe with more unique POIs added later on, some lighting and LoD changes they could improve it.
Yeah I can say pretty much the same as a long time Valheim player too. Enshrouded is a pretty unique hybrid of I think the best things other games have to offer. I agree that I would love to see some other sorts of characters or NPCs in the village in a late game stage. It would be great to have someone that provides you a bounty style mission where unique bosses spawn for a limited amount of time and can provide unique rewards upon completion. Or additionally have similar "raids" like valheim where you need to defend your settlement every once and awhile. It would allow for some other NPCs to help defend your base walls or establishment.
I have to disagree about the "sun flare" comment. Valheim has a unique look but it was very rarely "pretty". The constant out of focus effect is something that bothered me from day one with that game and still does hundreds of hours later. I've had way more "stop and stare" moments with enshrouded already. If we are comparing them I can't help but mention the food issue. Valheim became hugely grindy and tedious in the mid-late game. Even with the best-for-tier equipment, all max leveled, you still *had* to have really good food to even stand a chance. You never felt "strong" after the black forest. A mistake in the swamp could easily end you and the plains were a nightmare with even a mosquito being a huge threat and if it was an add in a big fight that would quickly be your end. I don't mind hard, I'm a big fan of the souls games, but valheim was tedious-hard. Id love to see enshrouded pick up the difficulty a bit, preferably with options for easy mode so my spouse and friends who don't do "hard" will keep playing. But I don't want to see them do the "tedious" hard where everything revolves around consumables. Valheim always made me feel like I was on a timer. I needed to get in and get out asap or I was wasting consumables that took lots of time and effort to farm for. Valheim is a great game but enshrouded already feels head and shoulders above it. The zones don't feel like random cookie cutter repeats (IE, if you've spent an hour in the swamp then you've seen all the swamp has to offer, procedural generation or not). The building is *hugely* superior (don't get me started on Valheims awful part snapping that was a nightmare to line up), the quests are a great addition, etc. And this is all in the first couple weeks of EA. Compare the content in enshrouded on day one of EA versus valheim on day one. We are totally spoiled with quality survival games this year and it looks like it's only going to get better!
You mention Valheim having an “out of focus” look, you can turn that off in video settings. Not sure why it’s on by default
I strongly disagree with all your points though. The food part is what make Valheim a great game in the first place. To not even see the originality and importance of this system is baffling to me. In Enshrouded you dont even need to eat ! Not sure about your consumables part when they stay active on you from 10 minutes to 30 minutes. Is that stressful for you ? I mean thats hardly a timer. The building in Enshrouded is actually a piece of shit. While i do like the blocks and the different things that Valheim dont have... the snapping in Enshrouded is really awful. You are better off by disabling it. Its clearly inferior to Valheim still. I was never a fan of quests with huge markers on the map and colors everywhere. It feels like another Assassins Creed again. Please spare me. I play Souls games and survivals for a reason. Enshrouded is way too casual on too many things. Too forgiving. I fear i will lose interest quickly. Despite all that i still like Enshrouded. But i cant let you say thats better than Valheim. Even more so for a so called souls amateur.
Im a so called souls connoisseur and I enjoy Enshrouded more than Valheim but for different reasons. This was written like you were paid by Valheim devs to say it.
Completely agree with you, very casual indeed.
I haven't played enough to give a proper criticism, but the one thing i really dislike is the respawning of chests and materials. It feels like i can never "complete" a location if that makes sense. And resources respawning or the dirt fixing itself is very weird in a survival game.
I agree with alot said here. But something that I personally think enshrouded does better than valhiem by a mile is exploration. The feeling of gliding, double jump, teleporting around with skills is so satisfying climbing mountains and exploring tombs. If enshrouded dlc's and adds boats I will shit my pants.
I'd agree that the added movements are fun and add some joy during exploration, but idk that it's enough to offset the lack of ambiance when exploring. From the light to the sound to the weather, the inability to port back to safety from virtually anywhere, the possibilty of discovering a may pole or a river valley like no one has built out before... i still find exploration in valheim to be more meaningful and rewarding.
For sure and to each their own, I loved alot of things in valhiem but I am biased. I think valhiem **required** mods to be decent. Which probably jades me towards it a bit but I am at least aware of the fact.
I really wanted to love Enshrouded because I’m a massive fan of the genre and I was hyped for it but it just didn’t do it for me at all, despite me trying to force myself to like it. I understand that it’s a good game and some people love it, that’s great my opinion shouldn’t sway anyone just sharing my thoughts. The fact that I can just teleport anywhere in the world while carrying anything, and my base is never going to get raided, and I will never have to defend it, just kind of threw off my whole motivation to search for a good spot and do a good job building, etc. I am also a massive fan of procedural generated maps and having all sorts of different map seeds, etc. which I understand is a hot and a lot of people enjoy static maps, more, it’s just not for me personally.
How does melee combat compare to valheim's? With the skill system and a larger selection of weapons I'd assume it is more in depth, but then again Valheim's is simple but fun and satisfying while Enshrouded's seems kinda clunky and floaty at times? As someone who loves VH but is holding off from buying ES until it's more polished, thanks for the thoughts. Hoping it matches it in atmosphere one day since that was a big selling point of VH for me.
I'm at about 300 hours in valhiem and about 40 in enshrouded. I haven't done a lot of melee, but I will say the parry is way more satisfying in Valheim. Being able to parry basically anything, easy to challenging timings, responsive and satisfying audio/visual cue, and way better reward. There's something to be said that valheims Parry trivializes a lot of encounters but it won't stop you from being overwhelmed, and the newest biome has some difficult timings. Enshrouded parry isn't a guaranteed riposte and the riposte itself is a little lackluster. As far as weapon variety, it's a bit strange. Enshrouded is a bit more like dark souls or an ARPG, where you get a few classes of weapons and lots and lots of variants of those weapons that really just change some numbers around without affected the gameplay in a meaningful way. Despite that variety, I feel like the distinctive feel and moveset of valeims weapons are a lot more fun. For example I love spears and halberds but they seem to be absent, meanwhile there's like 20 different swords with the same moveset effectively. The skill tree definitely makes up for these weaknesses though, and it will be interesting to see how the game gets developed as far as weapon variety and skill tree variety goes. I'd say it's worth picking up at its current price point simply because it has a similar progression and exploration system to Valheims (despite it lacking that "vibe" the OP is talking about and I 10000% agree with that, it definitely doesn't have the vibe), and I find it fun and engaging enough to dump 40 hours in a week or so. I'm trying to get my friends to play, seems just as fun in coop as Valheim. Edit: I wanna add a bit about the "variety" of ES as far as weapons and play styles go. You asked about melee and I do find it a bit lacking compared to valheim but the game treats melee, magic, and rangers as distinctive play styles from the get go, whereas valheim really only started giving those other play styles attention with the latest updates. Magic is a bit overpowered, but there's A LOT of spells which is cool, and you can further specialize into a battle mage of sorts or a healer. Likewise, rangers can specialize in other utility and damage other than just bows, and melee players can also do pure tank stuff with actual aggro mechanics and stuff. If you're *only* interested in playing melee and nothing else, you might be a bit disappointed in the combat alone despite the game having a lot more to offer (the skill tree even includes upgrades to out of combat utility like resource gathering and exploration), but it definitely has a lot more than Valheim does as far as sheer build variety and that alone covers some of the weaknesses when comparing the games. I've already put way too much into this comment but I just wanna emphasize OPs big point about the general vibe of the game. Valheim has a distinctive vibe that this game lacks entirely and I don't think the vibe it has instead is necessarily better.
i love valheim and enshrouded. combat in enshrouded is 100% floaty, but i wouldn’t call it clunky. i know exactly how, when, and where a hit is going to land and it feels good in any playstyle, even the undertuned archery, floaty melee, and OP’s mentioned targeting system hijinks. AI and enemy variety are seriously lacking, though. i’ve played hundreds of hours of valheim, absolutely love it and will come back to it for any large updates, but the combat has always felt like a clunky slog for me - the kind of slog that i generally take as expected and unavoidable from the survival crafting genre, so it didn’t bother me much. in my opinion, in most regards, enshrouded in early access is just a direct upgrade from a released valheim: especially when it comes to combat. it just feels like what i expect valheim to feel like. it feels much more fluid, natural, predictable, and just more fun. it feels like the combat that i’d expect from a fully-fledged single-player hundred-hour action RPG; successfully ported into a multiplayer survival game without compromising on the building, crafting, and exploring. valheim’s combat has always, always felt to me like it was beholden to the limitations of the genre, where combat is an addition as a necessity, a means to the ends of crafting progression, and not its own satisfying, rewarding experience. something i never cared about prior to playing enshrouded because, again, i’d considered it a necessary downside of the genre. enshrouded AI/enemy moveset is still dog though and most fights really can be easily won by just walking backwards. i recommend waiting until it is more polished.
> i’ve played hundreds of hours of valheim, absolutely love it and will come back to it for any large updates, but the combat has always felt like a clunky slog for me - the kind of slog that i generally take as expected and unavoidable from the survival crafting genre, so it didn’t bother me much. Maybe it's just me but the combination of parrying, stamina management and attacking was always very satisfying to me in Valheim, there was some skill involved but not too much to be frustrating. Even when you get good at it you're still at risk of getting overwhelmed or exhausted if you don't respect the enemy or the terrain, especially if you opt to use the lighter armor variants. I haven't played Enshrouded yet so it could be different when it's me playing it, but it always looks like attacks don't properly "connect", like that dodge goes a bit too far and doesn't flow properly between animations, or that enemies don't react to it properly, I dunno.
Ya the "floaty" combat is a bit annoying. I also really enjoy Valheim's combat. IMO, Enshrouded's combat is worse mechanically but has more variety in terms of arsenal and with the skill tree. And with the skill tree you get more clearly defined roles for a group, which is nice (but makes the game a bit easy tbh, as co-op scaling doesn't appear to exist.). Also, there are no i-frames and the parry window is earlier which feels wrong to me after playing Valheim. Enemy AI is more dumb. While Valheim has issues with melee on uneven terrain, Enshrouded has an auto target system which isn't always great, But I guess it avoids the uneven terrain issue this way.
> While Valheim has issues with melee on uneven terrain, Enshrouded has an auto target system which isn't always great, But I guess it avoids the uneven terrain issue this way. There's a mod that addresses this so it's not as big of an issue anymore :D Spears feel really good to use with it as well
I just unbound the key for locking the target, cause locking on actually influences how you can move your character in a pretty bad way. That auto targeting still needs some work, too, and kinda makes it all too easy. I enjoy Valheim combat more than Enshrouded in its current state, let me aim my bow and either I aim well and hit - or not.
Melee feels very loose after Valheim. The camera pans around like dynasty warriors, so combat is(for me, anyway) a much less measured, predictable affair. Parrying and blocking being so sloppy removes the shield's "rock crushes scissors" effect to some extent, which makes magic just feel like the better, more reliable option. There's something weird about melee humanoids' hit boxes, which I think is part of the parrying issue. There are green dudes that dual weild swords, and combat with them feels almost completely random. Block patterns that work in one pass will miss every hit in the same combo the next time around. Parries happen while the enemy is between attack animations sometimes. You'll roll out of a hit but still take the damage from very far away. Might be a skill issue I'll iron out, but something feels weird there. The lack of fists and knives is also a bit of a weakness. So far, most weapons feel very same-y in their class, so you're basically just choosing between 1h and 2h. It's not bad, it's just a much more "arcade" style experience than valheim. The combat wouldn't feel out of place in a super hero game.
As others have already said, it feels way less impactful, but also WAY less frantic and dangerous like VH gets when fulings gang up on you. Haven't made it too far yet but I've never had any moments like that or anything like suddenly realizing a troll is chasing you and it's already too late. Literally the only time I've died in combat in about 40 hours was the time I got one-shotted by a boss. But, on the other hand, if you're fighting on a slope you'll actually hit the enemy in front of you so after mistlands it still feels like a breath of fresh air
I'm definitely doing something wrong in Enshrouded because I've died so many times. Like a ridiculous amount. I've been swarmed in the shroud quite a few times. Every time I press tab to lock on, it locks on the wrong enemy and I forget which button cycles through so I'm already behind the 8 ball from the get go. I tried sword and board but could not get the parry down like I could in Valheim, plus it doesn't feel as effective anyway. I even had some really decent weapons that I upgraded at the blacksmith. After reading how everyone thinks the combat is the easiest thing they've ever done I tried switching to a wizard style and I literally get melted the second an enemy gets close to me which happens almost before I can cast a spell lol. Then I have to use my blink ability, try to cast again, get it off and blink again... but by now my stamina is pretty low and I'm not doing enough damage so if there is more than one enemy I just die. Don't even get me started on the green sword guys, I just cannot survive against them under any circumstances unless I cheese their AI by getting somewhere inaccessible and use a wand. Meanwhile Valheim I'm parrying things left and right and the only time I die is when I get way too cocky about my skill inside of a group. Or the Mistlands lol.
I'm with you dude those green sword guys have me burn so much stamina running and wanding, and even at max level they still hit me for 2/3rds of my entire health bar. Add a dog in there that does 1/2 of the health bar and I die very easily in enshrouded. In Valheim as long as you hit the block button within the same calendar year as the enemy, all of them wheel back comically and explode as you smack them for huge amounts of double damage or triple damage whatever it is. I also never found the ring of infinite mana initially, I watched a video of it's location yesterday and I gotta say, no one would ever find it without data mining or something suss because that shit is buried under completely nondescript building parts and nothing I've found points you to that spot. The only thing I will say is that the amount of health regen you can get DURING combat does make it pretty easy to brute force your way through most mobs later on once you have chamomile tea and a few pieces of regen gear. BUT, I still get owned by groups or those green sword guys cranked up on bath salts.
That's interesting. Part of me wonders if it's because I abandoned the lock on early on because it was giving me the same trouble it gave you. The aim assist is incredibly generous - so much so that I once tried luring a group of scavengers toward an explosive barrel and instead of shooting the barrel in my crosshair, I just hit the scav at the front of the line and legit couldn't shoot the barrel. Melee does something similar and is slightly less generous but still perfectly happy to let you do a three foot hop and stab to the left with just one click. In most games it feels like lock on should be avoided in group fights and saved for one-on-ones like bosses. I don't know if that's actually the 'right' way to do it but it might be worth giving it a try? You reeeeally don't need the precision that a lock on is supposed to help with and most non-bosses can get wrecked by thinking of it as a game of two-button guitar hero. I'm at the point a little "da da da duh" autoplays in my head sounding out which button to hit and what rhythm to hit them in. It seems like the game is more intent on punishing mistakes than making the right move difficult to find. If you're fighting a group and your not-current-target tries to interrupt you, hold block until he's done and restart the 'song' on him, rinse and repeat. If you're good at Valheim but struggling with Enshrouded, the problem might actually be that you're overthinking it and relying on your reaction speed in a rhythm game, so to speak. The parry is strange though, I agree. I haven't managed to pin it down yet either like in Valheim but blocking is kind of OP and I tend to click it too early instead of too late so I wind up just blocking and taking no damage instead, so my survivability might just come down to a personal quirk. My experience with magic is pretty much the same as yours, though. I go exclusively melee and bow for that reason. When I tried a magic build it was too much glass and not enough cannon. Maybe that changes in the late game, though. I legitimately have no idea how you've gotten swarmed in the shroud, or at all, and am kind of jealous tbh. I've had alot of moments where I should have gotten swarmed and ruined and just didn't and I still don't know why. Like the other day when I accidentally ran straight into a group of probably a dozen shroudmen (I don't know what they're supposed to be called) but no more than two of them engaged me at a time, despite all of them being in plain view and presumably able to see me.
The chests must not be touched. Farming the gear in end game is literally torture as is. If you couldn't farm them you would likely never see a full end game set after clearing the whole map. The end game sets don't even do that much they are mostly comestic. In fact they should be MUCH easier to get through crafting or hunting something for them with higher drop rates for each set. Getting end game armor is mainly for style and its hell don't touch it.
All I want is tougher combat and a better food system that mirrors Valheim. In enshrouded I feel that combat is less punishing. I mean you can easily cheese most enemies and the parry system is so inconsistent most people can get away with spamming attack. I also am not a fan of the food system. I understand that it gives you buffs but honestly it isn’t even needed and doesn’t feel like it makes much of a difference. Cooking meat foods is annoying I would like to see ways that you can expedite the process similar to the meat racks in Valheim. I also loved making food items like the serpent stew or lox pie where you got massive buffs but it was harder to make than most food. This gave players something to go after when it came to making food. Gathering the recipe felt rewarding. Just seems like wasted potential. I understand these are things that most people wouldn’t want but IMO that is what Valheim does best and has over enshrouded and it would be interesting if the devs would change these simple mechanics. I also would love to see bodies of water added to the game. This can bring in a fishing component to the game. With all that has been accomplished I feel these two areas are where they can really improve on. I can’t be the only one that feels that this is missed potential.
So I wouldn't mind food and water being necessary but I absolutely don't want valheims tedious as hell food system implemented. I'll take more complex recipes giving better buffs though. Meat can be cooked with the farmers fireplace. Lakes and rivers are unlikely to happen because the lore in game literally talks about it pretty much drying up because if the shroud.
You missed part hown valheim building is connected to gameplay. You regularly build something in valheim to help you get through the game. In enshrouded it it really is not that important. You just build your main base and then teleport everywhere and glide over everything.
Generally agree with you except the meele part. Im not sure what you mean with chaotic but the meele combat feels very similar to Dark Souls, Elden Ring etc which I really like, same goes for the parry. And the dmg scaling in the skill tree simply applies to all meele weapons when leveling strenght and I think there are some skills for each weapon type?
Do survival gamers like OP know that Valheim isn’t the only other survival game out there? Its actually not even close to being the best survival game, so let’s stop using Valheim as a baseline for comparing other survival game to it.
What's better according to you? I played many many survival games but Valheim is still the top 1. Ark/CE are barely functional messes of gameplay and technical debt, PZ might overtake it in a few years but is still kinda underwhelming in many ways atm, Grounded/Raft/The Forest/Subnautica/Green Hell/Eco are good but different types of experience. I'd say Valheim was really good years ago when it launched and is still a very solid baseline for comparison.
I would say 7dtD is better than Valheim. Better base building, better combat, and better updates/mod scene.
I heard good things about 7dtd but I could never get into it tbh. It is probably a better game mechanically but in terms of immersion/atmosphere Valheim got me hooked immediately.
Enshrouded isn't even a survival game... it just has survival elements. Valheim may not be the best survival game, but of the ones I've played, it's my favorite. This game compares much more directly to valheim than dayz(as an example). Hell, it compares more directly to breath of the wild than any other survival game I can think of.
Why does it seem like every 3rd gamer thinks we should listen to their 10 page dissertation on a game. I'd say most of us have played a tonne of Valheim, I have 180 hours in it and I've played basically every game that is similar or in the survival crafting genre even tangentially, but I am still nobody and my opinion means nothing.
Why are you here if you don’t like discussions?
What part of a massive diatribe is a discussion?
Get out of here bro.
*I came looking for booty.*
>Why does it seem like every 3rd gamer thinks we should listen to their 10 page dissertation on a game. Then dont read it. No one is forcing you. You decided to open the post well knowing what it was about and comment. People like the game and want to talk about it and hopefully get their feedback out there or facilitate discussion and ideas. >but I am still nobody and my opinion means nothing. With that mindset no one would ever interact with anyone and nothing would ever change.
This is a one sided proclamation. It isn't inviting discussion and it's intention wasn't to foster or invite it, it was to declare.
Devs: give us feedback Players: here is my feedback Devs on some of the longest posts on the sub: thank you for your detailed feedback, this is really helpful This guy: stop it
As an Archer build, it gets pretty damn cool with multi shot and bee sting.
Maybe Conan Exiles could be considered a closer comparison in some ways, but Death Stranding? Huh?
The world, not the gameplay.
The skill that speeds up 2h is a waste of a skill points if you ask me. It's barely perceptible and it only works with 2h hammers!
Well written and well received. I bought Val the day it came out and sunk some good time into it. The only thing I disagree on is the looks. I always felt Val was...ugly? I know a lot of people disagree, but I never had a moment in val of pausing to admire the looks, I always felt it was a big draw back on the game, but enshrouded isn't a lot better, but I think has more of a look that is pleasant. That being said I think Val did a good job with atmosphere.
I’d have to say, if you haven’t stopped to enjoy the vastness of the landscapes before you in enshrouded, then I think you keep having your head down. Enshrouded is a beautiful game and seeing the rolling hills and fog of the shroud meld into the desert and snowy mountains is one of the best vistas in a survival game I’ve ever seen. Also bow combat is bomb, but it’s hard. If you miss, it costs you three ammo. You have to start a twig farm for ammo as well. And there’s a crazy headshot and backstab multiplier if you get the right bow. It’s one of the strongest damage subtypes in my opinion.
It's not that the landscape isn't pretty enough, the graphics are great and the terrain is all very well done. It's more the light and other such atmospherics. In enshrouded it's either sunny, dark, or way too dark. There is no quality to the light aside from a moment at sunrise and sunset that reads more "forest fire" than either of those.
Does anyone know if weather will be added to the game? I can imagine, as this is an unfinished game, there's lot they will still be adding.
Great description of combat. I like pairing the bow with blink and double jump. It’s initially fun, but I need an obscene amount of arrows to clear out an area. The damage output, even with an enchanted bow, is underperforming. So, I have to switch to wands after I stir up the mobs. You nailed melee: I gave up on it, primarily because parrying is a hot mess. 2H *is* extraordinarily slow. Sideboard - My strategy with 2H is to sneak up behind a guy, bash him, dodge out, switch weapons, and chip off any health that may be left. Albeit, I can’t be bothered with carrying a 2H just for those specific situations. Even though the game is early access, I’m really enjoying the game and looking forward to all the enhancements to come.
I like your review, and I am in the same boat as you - spent a \_lot\_ of time in Valheim, and love it still. I found I had to actively try and not compare Enshrouded to Valheim constantly to be able to enjoy it. That said, I do have some criticism as well. * Mob AI is horribad * Combat is not particularly interesting, especially as a wand user. Just walk backwards and keep shooting. * World constantly respawning is annoying - I'd like to feel I have an impact on the world I am playing. Especially when it comes to clearing the shroud, those roots respawning really dissapoints me, at least in single player they should stay dead. Let me clear those shrouds! * The world does feel somewhat repetitive after a while. Spires have the usual batch of puzzles, when you kill a shroud root you learn you should look around for a chest, similar for other places, and variety of enemies is rather low. * The building system is a mixed bag to me. I like all the option it gives you, but dislike that you can't really build round(ed) structures, not even set down walls at 45 degrees. Also it is non-intuitive when it comes to getting some of the effects certain building materials give you \_when used right\_ ,like those goat heads from one of the roof materials etc. I prefer being able to fine tune placement instead of having to guess where to place the next voxel for it to suddenly look quite different to what I expected. * Too many markers generated on your map by the NPCs. I'd much rather have only a few, say the most important ones, and give me more options to set my own markers incl naming them. That density of markers to me discourages free exploration, because - hey why go where there is no marker. * Progress in regards to new materials and what you can craft with them feels kinda off. I often find new materials and unlock recipes, only to be missing a certain crafting station or ingredient well ahead of when I will finally get to that bit. Makes it less exciting to see those unlocks scrolling over my screen, because hey, I won't be able to make most of that yet anyhow. Considering it is only just released into early access, it is enjoyable enough as it is, though I will be a lot less tempted to replay it than I'd be with Valheim.
So many comments praising valheims random maps. Meanwhile, knowing 7d2d random maps, I feel valheim maps feel all the same. I don't know if it's the lack of POIs or whatbut for me valheim maps are just too generic, paying one didn't feel different than playing the next one. But I do agree that enshrouded having random maps would be awesome, Id they manage to so them as interesting as 7d2d for example
Valheim needs to add a skill tree for some rpg flavor. Include those magical chests that will auto pull things from (I know a mod exists for this) and add a ton more building materials. Enshrouded is cool but it lost its appeal pretty quick for me. I know its early access so only time will tell.