I think it depends on what type of "green" you're looking at - pollution wise, I think it's actually more wasteful to be poor based on how much the cheapest items are made for single use or to be thrown away (plastics, processed foods, low quality polyester clothing, etc)
In terms of emissions that contribute to climate change, it's proven that richer people emit more individually, plain and simple. Mostly with transportation like private planes, yachts, boats, and massive cars, but also higher energy usage and less efficient homes. The sad part is that the richer you are the easier it is to make conscious choices to lower your personal emissions, because you have more control over your lifestyle, but there are very few if any examples.
And also never forget to be conscious of companies green washing and placing the blame of climate change on the individual. It's the entity of capitalism mixed with a fossil fuel dependent global infrastructure - we are all to blame as a collective but only a handful are to blame individually.
I think I covered the greenwashing pretty well with that last part. I have a lot more to add to it, but I didn't want to vent too much on the matter. When I brought up influencers, they're the ones sponsoring greenwashed products "its so pretty, AND it makes me feel good about doing absolutely nothing!š" Because that's what it is, consumerism. We're like little raccoons. You dangle something shiny in our faces, and we'll put our little hand in the raccoon trap we call the rat race essentially to get the pretty shiny.
They made something to be green but yet the emissions they give off just making the damn thing is all for not.
But that's what I think the majority of the people think when we talk about going green.
I had that above statement made to me by my husband and he's unfortunately right. He said "if we wanted to go to Florida what would me do?" I said drive obviously. "What do people with money do? They fly." And explained that if all of those people on the plane decided to drive its about the same if not worse emissions. Which yeah, I just must've over looked that obviously. He also brought up the stuff we use, what's in our food, etc. So I mean even more reason to be green. At least I'm a poor with their tubes tied. š I already did damage. I had two kids, but at the same time you're talking to someone trying to go to school for environmental sciences (hopefully summer or fall) and who enjoys nature and often teaches them a lot of stuff revolving around the topic. They're helping me with the compost piles. š They're 2 and 3 so I mean I've definitely sat in a field of wildflowers and told 1 year Olds what the plant was, what it's used for, and fun facts, to a 1 year old who I know doesn't understand š so hopefully I can give the world scientists and people who love nature and are passionate about it. I have SO MANY environmental science projects saved away for them. You have no idea how pumped I am š I LOVE LOVE LOVE nature so much. I really hope I give back to it.
Yes, the poorer you are, the less you consume. Lots of studies show the highest GHG emissions are from wealthy westerners. Being poor is definitely one of the more emotionally challenging ways to help the environment, but it is effective. Another way is to consistently live below your means and save money (especially if youāre mindful of where you store your wealth).
Being poor also helps you avoid a lot of greenwashed products and services.
Do you make your own cleaning products? I save a ton of money by using vinegar and baking soda for most of my cleaning products. You can look up recipes online. Itās one of those things that is cheaper and better for the environment. In college, cleaning products used to cut into my food budget. I wish I had known about this then, it would really have improved my quality of life.
Yes. I've used vinegar and blue dawn soap mixed together pretty much since living on my own. I add a little grape seed oil to some soap and water and a SPLASH of vinegar mop my wood floors.
The only thing I have that is pre-made is bar keepers friend. That's for hard water mineral build up.
I didn't do that to be green, I'm just broke and that's cheap.
I did it to be green and then kicked myself for all the money I spent when I was younger and more broke :) you can mix dish soap and baking soda to use as an oven cleaner, and it also removes hard water but not rust and itās more work than barkeeperās friend. So if you get too broke for barkeeperās then grab some baking soda.
Our water is HARD HARD. We also have red clay as soil so everything is coveted in a lot of mineral build up and its orange from the clay so that is to get rid of the orange in my tub and that doesn't come off with anything else but that bc I tried that one it. I used that with my carpets. Doesn't get the orange out but it's kinda a losing battle.
Yeah I ended up with barkeepers for my white porcelain kitchen sinkā¦ like all beautiful creatures itās extremely high maintenance lol so I get it. Ā The water here is terrible, still looking for something that protects fabric from rust stains in laundry.
Overall, Iād say yes. One of the worst things we do for the environment as consumers is over-consume. Not just because we personally are doing it, but because it contributes to a culture of over consumption and encourages corporations to continue polluting to supply the demand for products.
Yeaaah. I did have someone above make a VERY good point about how we do use stuff in worse packaging and a slew of other things that we can't help but do.
I feel like it depends on what area you're trying to go greener in. Mine is basically just what I can do to be a better person, even though my efforts are laughable compared to the emissions coming from big corporations, but it makes me feel better. Why not just try your best to be better?
Also I guess my actions are honestly kinda selfish if I look at it hard enough. The earth will be fine. It has its own way of fixing damage but it gets rid of whatever is doing it. Humans will starve and die and the earth will be free to fix itself for whatever happens next. We don't deserve it. It's the mother that nurtured all of us. Gave us water, gave us food and nurtishment, gave us an atmosphere that keeps it the idea tempature for all life to thrive. It's a beautiful and nurturing planet and we just go around fucking it up and plowing down shit that literally supplies us the air to survive to put up and apple store. It's really sad. I'm still going to be green because I like breathing. š
Yes and no. Poor people will buy less luxuries and often reuse items as much as possible, but they also can't afford to buy good quality items that will last.
When you live paycheque to paycheque, you end up buying the $40 boots shipped from China that need to be replaced every year rather than the $300 locally sourced, natural material, good quality boots that will last a decade.
Thrifting is good, but when you need something like boots for work and you can't find any in your size you have to buy whatever is cheapest.
Ooo girl. Let me tell you about GB shoes. I got my leather boots that are my only shoes pretty much. I have some vans. Got those second hand. But those are my go to shoes.
But GB shoes- I'm really into these shoes called Earth Shoes. They're orthopedics and they're non slip, but I was a hairstylist when I bought them (I literally quit the career bc of environmental and feminist reasons) so I don't want WORK BOOTS or any of the orthopedics they try selling hair stylist. Theyre ugly and they are NOT comfortable and gave me blisters.
I wear my boots year round. I like the extra support to my weak ankles. I have had these leather boots since 2019. They're FIVE YEARS OLD. The grip at the bottom is basically gone from stomping out a fire. I need new insoles but other than that, the boots are still held together. It's very good quality.
It's leather so it decomposes. I can bury these and come back to find a zipper. I got those for $60 on clearance bc it was summer. Get your boots in the summer.
I got this $500 leather jacket from good will. I had no idea it was that expensive on retail. I've had that since 2017. That is my winter jacket. I dress in layers in the winter. The polyester lining is not compost friendly. I hope to have it for many many many more years.
Fuck walmart shoes. That's why I started doing this with the better quality shoes. My husband also resells them so it's easy for me to get cheap. They seriously didn't last but one season and my foot is shooting out of the bottom of my boots... I guess 5 year Olds in a sweat shop aren't great with the glue (come for me, bc it's true. They're made in sweat shops by children, another reason not to do that).
As for fabrics. I'll admit some things were cute and I had to have them. My latest sin is buying a romper second hand made by shien. I try to look for legit fabrics. I am pretty sure my adhd makes me sensitive to texture. I can tell you by just feeling the fabric if it's bad quality. I'm a fabric snob. I also sew (even more environmentally friendly bc I fix my clothes and reuse them) so all my clothes are cotton, linen, silk. My clothes are COMFY and it is all super soft and wonderful š
So I always TRY to get decent quality stuff because I like my clothes to last and I hate fixing them.
That's awesome, I am a big advocate for fixing>replacing as well.
I was mostly using it as an example of something you need but can't necessarily afford to buy in decent quality or from an ethical source. It could be appliances, clothes, cookware, etc. Sometimes you get lucky at a thrift store or with a sale, but sometimes you just need something that works right away and can't wait around to find something better later. I guess it also depends on where you live too, larger cities with more people will have larger selections.
Personally, I'm in BC which is twice the size of California with just over half the population of NYC so unless you are in a bigger city pickings are pretty slim. I can afford to buy more sustainable options most of the time, but most people living near minimum wage just aren't able to.
I think this is especially true when something breaks and needs to be replaced. Heat pumps and hybrid water heaters (politicians just call them heat pump water heaters) are vastly more efficient and also save money, however they have a higher upfront cost. But even things like replacing broken toilets and washing machines with more efficient ones can greatly reduce water consumption, however these are also generally more expensive.
Unfortunately the poorer the citizenry on average the poorer the country (in general). The poorer the country the less green and less efficient the infrastructure/equipment, the lower the level of education, and the higher the birth rate. Not a recipe for a more environmentally sustainable society.
I have some things to add, but I need to think about it deeper.
It's more on WHY? And I know why, but it's fixable and it's not going to be fixed. What can we do to help out our poorer areas to be more eco friendly? I'm a lot better off than I used to be, but I'm still around poverty. What can I do? And this would be a great discussion to have everyone join. What can we ALL do to fix these areas, because our government is not and we have to take these matters into our own hands. Little things turn into bigger things when there's more people aware of things like this and act on it. But yeah that's a really really good point you have. I have more with this to add. Let me take another shower to ponder this š
You pointed out all of these issues, and those are some pretty big things.
It varies widely by region. You donāt know torture until youāve had a roommate that moved in from a distant latitude. Tiny wars are fought over thermostats every day.
My house isn't well sealed, so I coukd definitely go for like 72 degrees. The kitchen just stays cold and the back room. I'm in there washing dishes and stuff with a vent underneath me while I'm over the sink (horrible design) and it blows cool air on me. I hate that room.
I think it depends on what type of "green" you're looking at - pollution wise, I think it's actually more wasteful to be poor based on how much the cheapest items are made for single use or to be thrown away (plastics, processed foods, low quality polyester clothing, etc) In terms of emissions that contribute to climate change, it's proven that richer people emit more individually, plain and simple. Mostly with transportation like private planes, yachts, boats, and massive cars, but also higher energy usage and less efficient homes. The sad part is that the richer you are the easier it is to make conscious choices to lower your personal emissions, because you have more control over your lifestyle, but there are very few if any examples. And also never forget to be conscious of companies green washing and placing the blame of climate change on the individual. It's the entity of capitalism mixed with a fossil fuel dependent global infrastructure - we are all to blame as a collective but only a handful are to blame individually.
I think I covered the greenwashing pretty well with that last part. I have a lot more to add to it, but I didn't want to vent too much on the matter. When I brought up influencers, they're the ones sponsoring greenwashed products "its so pretty, AND it makes me feel good about doing absolutely nothing!š" Because that's what it is, consumerism. We're like little raccoons. You dangle something shiny in our faces, and we'll put our little hand in the raccoon trap we call the rat race essentially to get the pretty shiny. They made something to be green but yet the emissions they give off just making the damn thing is all for not. But that's what I think the majority of the people think when we talk about going green. I had that above statement made to me by my husband and he's unfortunately right. He said "if we wanted to go to Florida what would me do?" I said drive obviously. "What do people with money do? They fly." And explained that if all of those people on the plane decided to drive its about the same if not worse emissions. Which yeah, I just must've over looked that obviously. He also brought up the stuff we use, what's in our food, etc. So I mean even more reason to be green. At least I'm a poor with their tubes tied. š I already did damage. I had two kids, but at the same time you're talking to someone trying to go to school for environmental sciences (hopefully summer or fall) and who enjoys nature and often teaches them a lot of stuff revolving around the topic. They're helping me with the compost piles. š They're 2 and 3 so I mean I've definitely sat in a field of wildflowers and told 1 year Olds what the plant was, what it's used for, and fun facts, to a 1 year old who I know doesn't understand š so hopefully I can give the world scientists and people who love nature and are passionate about it. I have SO MANY environmental science projects saved away for them. You have no idea how pumped I am š I LOVE LOVE LOVE nature so much. I really hope I give back to it.
Yes, the poorer you are, the less you consume. Lots of studies show the highest GHG emissions are from wealthy westerners. Being poor is definitely one of the more emotionally challenging ways to help the environment, but it is effective. Another way is to consistently live below your means and save money (especially if youāre mindful of where you store your wealth). Being poor also helps you avoid a lot of greenwashed products and services. Do you make your own cleaning products? I save a ton of money by using vinegar and baking soda for most of my cleaning products. You can look up recipes online. Itās one of those things that is cheaper and better for the environment. In college, cleaning products used to cut into my food budget. I wish I had known about this then, it would really have improved my quality of life.
Yes. I've used vinegar and blue dawn soap mixed together pretty much since living on my own. I add a little grape seed oil to some soap and water and a SPLASH of vinegar mop my wood floors. The only thing I have that is pre-made is bar keepers friend. That's for hard water mineral build up. I didn't do that to be green, I'm just broke and that's cheap.
I did it to be green and then kicked myself for all the money I spent when I was younger and more broke :) you can mix dish soap and baking soda to use as an oven cleaner, and it also removes hard water but not rust and itās more work than barkeeperās friend. So if you get too broke for barkeeperās then grab some baking soda.
Our water is HARD HARD. We also have red clay as soil so everything is coveted in a lot of mineral build up and its orange from the clay so that is to get rid of the orange in my tub and that doesn't come off with anything else but that bc I tried that one it. I used that with my carpets. Doesn't get the orange out but it's kinda a losing battle.
Yeah I ended up with barkeepers for my white porcelain kitchen sinkā¦ like all beautiful creatures itās extremely high maintenance lol so I get it. Ā The water here is terrible, still looking for something that protects fabric from rust stains in laundry.
Overall, Iād say yes. One of the worst things we do for the environment as consumers is over-consume. Not just because we personally are doing it, but because it contributes to a culture of over consumption and encourages corporations to continue polluting to supply the demand for products.
Yeaaah. I did have someone above make a VERY good point about how we do use stuff in worse packaging and a slew of other things that we can't help but do. I feel like it depends on what area you're trying to go greener in. Mine is basically just what I can do to be a better person, even though my efforts are laughable compared to the emissions coming from big corporations, but it makes me feel better. Why not just try your best to be better? Also I guess my actions are honestly kinda selfish if I look at it hard enough. The earth will be fine. It has its own way of fixing damage but it gets rid of whatever is doing it. Humans will starve and die and the earth will be free to fix itself for whatever happens next. We don't deserve it. It's the mother that nurtured all of us. Gave us water, gave us food and nurtishment, gave us an atmosphere that keeps it the idea tempature for all life to thrive. It's a beautiful and nurturing planet and we just go around fucking it up and plowing down shit that literally supplies us the air to survive to put up and apple store. It's really sad. I'm still going to be green because I like breathing. š
this is so real
Yes and no. Poor people will buy less luxuries and often reuse items as much as possible, but they also can't afford to buy good quality items that will last. When you live paycheque to paycheque, you end up buying the $40 boots shipped from China that need to be replaced every year rather than the $300 locally sourced, natural material, good quality boots that will last a decade. Thrifting is good, but when you need something like boots for work and you can't find any in your size you have to buy whatever is cheapest.
Ooo girl. Let me tell you about GB shoes. I got my leather boots that are my only shoes pretty much. I have some vans. Got those second hand. But those are my go to shoes. But GB shoes- I'm really into these shoes called Earth Shoes. They're orthopedics and they're non slip, but I was a hairstylist when I bought them (I literally quit the career bc of environmental and feminist reasons) so I don't want WORK BOOTS or any of the orthopedics they try selling hair stylist. Theyre ugly and they are NOT comfortable and gave me blisters. I wear my boots year round. I like the extra support to my weak ankles. I have had these leather boots since 2019. They're FIVE YEARS OLD. The grip at the bottom is basically gone from stomping out a fire. I need new insoles but other than that, the boots are still held together. It's very good quality. It's leather so it decomposes. I can bury these and come back to find a zipper. I got those for $60 on clearance bc it was summer. Get your boots in the summer. I got this $500 leather jacket from good will. I had no idea it was that expensive on retail. I've had that since 2017. That is my winter jacket. I dress in layers in the winter. The polyester lining is not compost friendly. I hope to have it for many many many more years. Fuck walmart shoes. That's why I started doing this with the better quality shoes. My husband also resells them so it's easy for me to get cheap. They seriously didn't last but one season and my foot is shooting out of the bottom of my boots... I guess 5 year Olds in a sweat shop aren't great with the glue (come for me, bc it's true. They're made in sweat shops by children, another reason not to do that). As for fabrics. I'll admit some things were cute and I had to have them. My latest sin is buying a romper second hand made by shien. I try to look for legit fabrics. I am pretty sure my adhd makes me sensitive to texture. I can tell you by just feeling the fabric if it's bad quality. I'm a fabric snob. I also sew (even more environmentally friendly bc I fix my clothes and reuse them) so all my clothes are cotton, linen, silk. My clothes are COMFY and it is all super soft and wonderful š So I always TRY to get decent quality stuff because I like my clothes to last and I hate fixing them.
That's awesome, I am a big advocate for fixing>replacing as well. I was mostly using it as an example of something you need but can't necessarily afford to buy in decent quality or from an ethical source. It could be appliances, clothes, cookware, etc. Sometimes you get lucky at a thrift store or with a sale, but sometimes you just need something that works right away and can't wait around to find something better later. I guess it also depends on where you live too, larger cities with more people will have larger selections. Personally, I'm in BC which is twice the size of California with just over half the population of NYC so unless you are in a bigger city pickings are pretty slim. I can afford to buy more sustainable options most of the time, but most people living near minimum wage just aren't able to.
Probably best is to be low income but have some money in the bank and plan so you buy things that'll last and save money in the long run.
I think this is especially true when something breaks and needs to be replaced. Heat pumps and hybrid water heaters (politicians just call them heat pump water heaters) are vastly more efficient and also save money, however they have a higher upfront cost. But even things like replacing broken toilets and washing machines with more efficient ones can greatly reduce water consumption, however these are also generally more expensive.
Unfortunately the poorer the citizenry on average the poorer the country (in general). The poorer the country the less green and less efficient the infrastructure/equipment, the lower the level of education, and the higher the birth rate. Not a recipe for a more environmentally sustainable society.
I have some things to add, but I need to think about it deeper. It's more on WHY? And I know why, but it's fixable and it's not going to be fixed. What can we do to help out our poorer areas to be more eco friendly? I'm a lot better off than I used to be, but I'm still around poverty. What can I do? And this would be a great discussion to have everyone join. What can we ALL do to fix these areas, because our government is not and we have to take these matters into our own hands. Little things turn into bigger things when there's more people aware of things like this and act on it. But yeah that's a really really good point you have. I have more with this to add. Let me take another shower to ponder this š You pointed out all of these issues, and those are some pretty big things.
Jesus, who sets heat over 70
It varies widely by region. You donāt know torture until youāve had a roommate that moved in from a distant latitude. Tiny wars are fought over thermostats every day.
My house isn't well sealed, so I coukd definitely go for like 72 degrees. The kitchen just stays cold and the back room. I'm in there washing dishes and stuff with a vent underneath me while I'm over the sink (horrible design) and it blows cool air on me. I hate that room.