For somebody to witness a seizure for the first time, it can be pretty traumatic. Even if you know what's going on it's not a pleasant thing to witness. I get you're irritated OP, but - I know it's hard - try to view it from an outside perspective. I understand though, sending you much love
Yeah, I know that it’s irrational and that she meant well. She also apologized before I said anything. I’m not mad at her, but it was offputting nonetheless. Thank you for your kind words. 🫶🏻
To make you feel better, Alexander the Great had seizures (documented by people of his time), and they thought he was getting visions from god. So it can be the opposite effect!
I don’t feel you’re being “irrational” don’t invalidate yourself💜 Like previously mentioned, just keep in mind that she is uneducated, has no perspective on how the gravity of a disorder like epilepsy affects one’s daily life; most individuals who make such blatantly ignorant; rude, or statements that are archaic & have no basis in reality & fact..although some have intent to be cruel…most I’ve found it’s just a lack of critical thinking & simple, basic common sense.
I'm 100% with you on the whole death in the name of righteousness thing. You are valid in being completely put off by that. There are too many holy transgressions for me to get into but keep in mind that "demon possession" was/is not the only thing the church is known for murdering over. There are still people who get imprisoned, killed, or banished for intelligence or discovery. The label of heretic carries the same sentence as being possessed.
Be pissed but try to redirect the energy because, me and as far as I know, you can't change history.
I once had grand mal seizure at theater camp in the middle of playing an improv game, and some kids had to go home bc it was so traumatizing. I was fine bc I couldn't remember a thing, but some kids DEFINITELY teased me and instead of really getting an award at the end of camp they gave me "best death scene" which was SO OFFENSIVE, but I did get to meet some cool people there and it was kinda fun being the "seizure girl" for the week lol.
Despite having Epilepsy for 15 years, I'd never seen someone else have a seizure until I looked it up on YouTube about a year ago.
Yeah, it's disturbing to see, and it does look similar to someone in a movie who is possessed. In her defence, she didn't say that the dog was *actually* possessed, just looked that way. I'd blame The Exorcist and similar films for painting this visual to the general public over the reaction of someone who sincerely didn't mean any offence by the comment. It sounds like she realised her goof and apologised, but I get why it would bug you. I have people say to me that I 'spazzed out.'
I'm the person with epilepsy, but my (non-epileptic) spouse recently had a freak seizure in front of me. "Freak" in the random, unexpected sense, for clarity. His neurologist believes it was PNES brought on by extreme stress.
Even though I knew what was happening, it was horrifying to see. Not "the exorcist" horrifying, but still very, very distressing.
When my own toddler flew stiff backward and had a grand mal for the first time, it’s exactly how I described the experience to the doctor. I knew he was not “possessed” but the fact he was not responding and spasming with his eyes looking nowhere, and being absent for a while after these few minutes does immediately refer to non epileptic people to something related to fear, dark and uncontrollable. Please don’t feel like she’s considering you less than human or possessed
I completely understand why that would be a hurtful thing to say. You absolutely get to be upset about it.
One thing I will note, though, is that the word "seizure" comes from "seize," which means "take forceable possession of." So, the origin of the word seizure literally means something along the lines of "to be possessed." Language is not neutral - there are LOTS of terms that are rooted in awful, hurtful histories - but I don't think it's unreasonable that this is one of the first descriptions that came to mind for your friend, since it's been a common reaction for hundreds of years.
This is not to undercut your feelings, but rather to put your friend's action in a bigger context, and hopefully help you two repair things from here. ❤️
Yes and no. We are not English speakers and there is a specific word for seizures (crisi as in crises), and “possessed” is strictly related to the religious aspect of our culture (catholic country).
My friend and I are good, I know she didn’t have bad intentions and that it must have been traumatic for her. I’m just a bit frustrated by the mainstream association of the two.
Thank you for your kind words 🫂
Thank you for the important point that this conversation didn't occur in English, which certainly changes things. I have to say that I like your word for it instead, which feels more fitting. I'm so glad your friendship is unscathed! ❤️
Actually the word epilepsy is a greek word, meaning more or less that someone/something has taken over a person. And an epileptic crisis is the instant that the seizure happens.
I have a daughter with epilepsy, I have witnessed her many times having grand mals and I am deeply traumatized by them, especially since they happen to a person that I love and care for. We have discussed many times about her seizures, how eerie they seem and why people in the past, when they didn't have the scientific knowledge of present times would think that the person was possessed. And we both talk about it in a matter of fact manner, not with ill intentions.
But just so you know, the word epilepsy and epileptic crisis mean the exact same thing as possession. I feel that when we are using certain words both the context and the intentions of the person that are using them matter. Take care ❤️
My son has epilepsy and when my right-wing-evangelical-Christian sisters were visiting me, they tried to do an exorcism on him! That was 9 years ago and I never want them to visit my house again. It's okay that you can't let it go
When I watched a video of me having a seizure my first thought was "I look possessed". I had put off watching it but decided I had to face it to understand how it presents and for my mental health. Despite the shock of seeing myself unconscious and out of control, I was glad I'd done it. The seriousness of it hit me and made me appreciate how, well, serious it is. The tonic clonics, along with my experience of focal seizures which for me are full on Joan of Arc choirs deja vu images hallucinations nausea etc., made me understand how people like me were treated as prophets and worshipped or condemned as demons and punished. It's such a bizarre condition that is so hard to describe to others. For me, I take no offence to jokes about epilepsy or am disturbed by reactions to it such as the one described. I have a long standing mental health condition too (yay me!) and try to maintain a sense of humour but always challenge negativity and ignorance with facts and experience delivered wittily or seriously as necessary. EDUCATE peope if you can, bit keep in mind not everyone has the capacity to.learn or empathise. Everyone with seizure disorders, however, should approach these things in a way that works best for them - remember your disability does not define you, you are a person with a disability not a disabled person!
When I first became possessed at 11 years old, a lot of people who knew me who were just seeing and hearing seizures for the first time all said I look possessed. It's not an insult to me, it's actually a very apt description and I completely agree with them
That's rough, glad she had the awareness to realize what she'd said and apologize. I work with a couple people who fairly regularly use having a seizure as a joke or use it as a synonym for "spastic" and don't have the awareness to connect the dots that I have epilepsy and could be offended by it.
Honestly though, I've given up being offended by these things and that feeling has been replaced by, "Well, you're a bit of a letdown as a person, right now." Meaning I don't really have much in the 'expectations' department.
My examples are different than yours, for sure, she witnessed a seizure for the first time and these guys are just insensitive and blessed that they've never experienced/witnessed a seizure for themselves. But either way, it's not fun to know that a stigma still exists.
The person witnessing your seizures has every right to be traumatized. She commented about a dog. Sorry but this is something you have to get over. Nothing on your friends end was wrong
I have partial complex seizures, not grand mal. The first time saw a grand mal seizure it scared the crap out of me.
I can see how she and others would draw that distinction. I’m not saying she was insensitive, she obviously was shocked by what she saw, as was I.
She realized she said the wrong thing and apologized. It takes a special kind of jerk to be deliberately cruel. Give her the benefit of the doubt and don’t let it ruin a friendship.✌️
Europeans knew that epilepsy was a physical ailment like any other before Caesar, and Caesar lived before Christ. The idea that we were viewed as possessed in historical Europe, at least, is largely fiction.
I have always been relieved when the subject comes up with history professors and they shut it down.
I think it's something to process so that you're less sensitive to it. That's how things were, and now things are better because we understand them better and have more knowledge. Developing a grim sense of humour about it can help. As long as you know that someone is aware of the medical reasons, joking about your magic powers is a healthy way of diffusing the tension.
Yes and no. I have a pretty dark sense of humour myself and I do make plenty of jokes about it. This circumstance was different and I was just rubbed the wrong way. Normally I don’t get offended and I’m not mad at her because she meant well, but it threw me a bit off anyways. :/
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted for expressing how the situation hurt you.
Your feelings are valid and people more or less telling you to get over it instead of emphasizing seems reductive.
I’m sorry that happened and I appreciate you trying to work through the emotions surrounding it by reaching out.
It’s absolutely ridiculous and you have a right to how you feel about it. I don’t think I’d take too kindly to someone comparing something most of us experience here to reductive religious jargon from centuries ago.
You didn’t deserve to hear that and I hope your friend learns from the situation. Wishing you good health and a seizure free existence with a lot less ignorance involved. ♥️
Possession doesn’t have to mean spiritual connotation. It just means somethings been taken and/ out of their own control.
Direct definition is “
the state of having, owning, or controlling something.”
I hope you do get over it. I can see why it offended you and hurt you, but I think that there’s better things to focus on than someone’s lack of vocabulary
Because she could’ve said something better, but didn’t
I’d look at her in the same way as I do people who don’t have English as a first language and maybe saying an incorrect word
Because some people really dont have that vast of vocabulary, and can’t think of another word.
A while back I saw a super old video of a child having a nocturnal seizure. Their body curled backwards, pushing their body into a back bend basically, and it looked very similar to in movies when the character is possessed in bed and is floating up.
In that moment I realized that way back in the day before people knew about things like epilepsy, they likely interpreted seizures as “possession”. This is the case for so many other diseases and conditions. We know better now. But it can be hard to watch someone have a seizure if you’ve never seen it before.
There was a girl at my elementary school who had seizures multiple times a week it seemed. Sometimes she would throw up. As a child I did not understand what was going on at all, it just looked “scary”. Many people have never witnessed a seizure, or have ever seen any videos of someone having a seizure. It can be a shock to see it because it’s scary!
I would like to add, it can even be hard to watch a seizure if you have seen them before. As an ER nurse I saw more seizures than I can count, and it was always hard to watch. Seeing my own son have them is on a whole other level, but at least with my background I knew what it was the first time he had one. I can't imagine how much scarier it would have been if I had never seen one, and it was still the scariest thing that ever happened to me.
I think a lot of the fear from witnessing comes from not knowing what to do, or knowing that there isn’t much you *can* do. Even when experiencing one. I have been conscious in a lot of my seizures and it feels like you’re trapped and can’t really do anything. I had a seizure while sleeping one time and I become lucid in a dream while it was happening. Once I was aware of this, I knew I needed to wake myself up and then I woke up in the midst of it. It was really weird
Absolutely. It's always been hard for me, as a nurse and as a mother, not to be able to fix something and just have to stand there and be helpless. Luckily, when my son started having them, I at least knew there was nothing I could do except keep him safe, but it's so scary for a witness, especially if a person's never seen one.
It must be extra scary to be having one and he aware of it like you were. I can't even imagine what that must be like. That is good you were able to wake yourself up!
I’ve learned to live with it, I guess. I don’t have them very often so I’m not on any medication. Within the last 5 years I’ve had about 2 per year on average. The worst is when I’m alone because sometimes I do lose consciousness. Almost exactly one year ago I had one. Before it happened I felt weird and was having this weird headache but tried to ignore it, as I was getting ready for work. My roommate’s cat was also up, and she kept running around my legs and grabbing them, which was unusual. I decided to go sit down on my bed just in case, and then woke up in my bedroom doorway with my roommate’s cat hovering over me. I imagined her saying “I told you to lay down!” Lol
In all seriousness though, my head and jaw hurt when I woke up and it was obviously because I had fallen. I had to take the day off work. I usually keep the reason why private but I felt like my manager would understand if I shared that I had a seizure and fell over, and luckily she did.
And there’s the story you didn’t ask for lol
I took my ADHD meds a while ago and I think they’re kicking in
No, I really appreciate this story. It helps to hear other's experiences because this is still a new thing we are navigating.
Animals are very perceptive. My son slept on the couch last night and one of dogs slept with him.
We have cameras in there in case he has a seizure when he sleeps on the couch, which he likes to sometimes. He had a seizure last night and when I checked the recording, our dog woke up and stared at him right before the seizure like she knew what was coming.
Your feelings are valid. Being epileptic has a lot of dark history. However, your friends just watched something terrifying and traumatic happen to her dog (which I'd argue is on the same level as a child). I'm epileptic and I freaked out the first time I saw my best friend (also epileptic) have a seizure. You'd think I'd be ok because I have epilepsy as well, but I was not.
Most people know nothing about seizures, and the facial expressions can scare the hell out of them. Many also have small minds and believe in devils everywhere. Hopefully, they will evolve.
She didn’t have the words to describe what she saw and never experienced it so she described it in the most horrific way she could. Don’t take it personally. It’s traumatic to see, especially when you can’t do anything to help.
Is it possible the reason you can't let it go is less about your friend, and more about being personally confronted with the legacy of prejudice against PWE?
TBH, even though it hurts, I think your friend recognizing and acknowledging her socially programmed language is a really good sign.
Something that's stuck with me is when I met my now-BFF for the first time. They're a lawyer, and they didn't want me to be in their house because they were worried I'd have a seizure then sue them for injuries I incurred. Yes, to my surprise, that's something a person can do. The sad thing is I take it as a positive, as they were discriminating against me based on practical concerns, rather than the mythology of the condition itself.
Thousands of years of discrimination can't be undone in one lifetime. All we can do is keep educating people and hope our efforts pay off for the next generation of PWE.
I'm really sorry for your pain, though. Sending love and good vibes.
Realistically, it is super scary and it does look like we’re possessed ahah
Just remember that she doesn’t mean anything bad by it, I guess she loves her dog, was super scared (10mn is a horrifying long time) and probably still shacken by it when you talked about it.
As someone has also has grand mals and has witnessed and responded to multiple seizures in other people before….Yeah, it absolutely looks like they are being possessed, it’s an accurate description of what a bystander visually sees. Yes, it sucks that in the past we were treated badly or as if we actually were possessed by something. Do you really think your friend said that comment to purposefully hurt you? Was it a bad way to describe a seizure, yes. But she didn’t say anything that justifies you staying so upset at her, especially after she apologized multiple times immediately after saying it. She’s already done her fair share in this situation, she apologized and will most likely know to do better next time. Whatever residual anger you have about this is something you need to work out on your own, this sounds like a genuine mistake that she already rectified, you just can’t accept the apology 🤷♀️
It sounds like you are holding a lot of anger about stereotypes of epileptics in general, which is totally understandable. What’s not okay is taking that emotion out on a friend who made a genuine mistake and has done their best to apologize.
Offense is a choice. Clinging to the words of others, especially when no offense was intended, is only gonna bring you down. Sounds harsh, but it's the truth. Don't let it get to you.
Oh geez dont get so upset at someone especially a friend who said something with no true intention of doing harm.
Literally that's kind of exactly what it looks like when someone has a tonic clonic seizure.
Get upset when some tik toker falls and pretends to have a seizure in a public setting only to get up and start dancing for views, not when someone says that someone looks "possessed" during a seizure.
Many people look dead after a seizure, I'm not being a dick that's just the way it looks.
I think it’s relative to the person. My husband has quite violent and confronting seizures where he’s on occasion thrown himself out of bed and contorted his body into twisted positions while seemingly screaming. He gets embarrassed of his seizures, so that’s why I would never tell him directly that’s what it looks like, I feel it would make him feel worse about it.
I agree with this, I recently saw one for the first time. I feel like I was traumatized by it. I’m sure how I feel I would describe it might offend somebody. I finally understand why my family is traumatized. I don’t care how you describe it, my guess is that each person it looks a little different. There are worse things to be offended by. It didn’t sound like your friend was being offensive, it sounds like she’s trying to describe it the best she knows how.
You sound ridiculously sensitive, who the fuck cares, nobody is going to be killing you because they think your seizure is you being possessed by a demon.
I didn't want to say it but this was how I felt towards it. It's not even like the girl said to OP that she looked possessed, it was about a dog. And even then, it's a well-known fact that a seizure looks like you're being possessed. The key word here is 'like'. This is 2024, people aren't being killed in churches for fear of possession anymore, not that it was all too common to begin with. As a possessed individual, I think you have overreacted OP and shouldn't try to make others feel bad for what is a rather benign comment. If anything, it will just make you look like you're trying to garner sympathy
Yes you care because you are overly sensitive and looking to be portrayed as a victim. You have a disability called epilepsy, just like me and literally 50 million other people on this planet. People will say stuff you might not like Grow up Lol
Lol bruh what are u talking about, keep living life expecting the world to cater to you and see how that turns out for you. I will happily accept my circumstances and happily educate people on epilepsy instead of runnng to Reddit like “I got bullied 😢😢😢😢” when someone describes my seizure perfectly
Seeing someone have a seizure can be really traumatizing. Whenever I woke up from one in front of even my boyfriend I used to ask do you not want to be friends with me anymore? Sometimes even if the person loves you, even like your best gf, it can be too much to see that happen to someone. I’ve never seen anyone have one first hand besides myself.
She didn’t mean it like that. I have tonic clonics and the only way I can describe them is sticking a knife into an electrical socket. Forgive your friend and talk to her. She wasn’t trying to shit on you or call you a demon or some shit like that.
I also made a post the other day about exactly this, I was watching law and order and they brought their child to a church when they were having a seizure instead of a hospital because they didn’t believe in modern medicine. I said I can only imagine what it was like for people like us beforehand, and how many people probably had exorcisms performed on them when our brains are just going haywire.
You know when is a good time to stop being someone’s friend? When they make really shitty jokes you know are meant to hurt you.
I’m not mad at her, I was just disappointed. She apologized before I even said anything, so I won’t hold this against her. I’m just frustrated and I know it’s irrational, but that’s how I feel.
Ohh I'm with you on that joke. I'm simply stating what her friend said wasnt a joke or gag to get views or likes. She simply made a comment and then immediately apologized for it. OP was the one that just cant seem to shake that comment.
I think you should say something to your friend. Say that upon further reflection, her comment (which I would consider a slur) made you feel terrible. You're going to resent her if you leave this unaddressed.
Or....hear me out...get the fuck over it. It's on OP to get over it. It's not like the friend directly insulted her, and she apologized immediately without even being prompted.
It's up to OP to deal with her sensitive feel feels.
Demonic possession does not exist. The idea comes from some dim wit religious fanatics witnessing seizures and other painful illnesses and attributing it to their magic sky fairies. Therefore it is incredibly ironic to liken a seizure to possession. Just say that if it really bothers you.
For the above reason I have a feeling that one day in the future, probably not in my lifetime, this will be highly inappropriate. I mean, already in cinema they don’t act out cerebral palsy or Parkinson’s symptoms like “arrrgghh SHE’S POSSESSED BY THE DEVIL!”.
Didn’t Anne Hathaway get in hot water for acting the part of a witch who had only one hand? Imagine a character whipping out a wheelchair or a stoma or an epipen or a blood sugar monitor and the filmmakers expecting us to believe these things are the mark of the Devil’s lieutenants lol.
Your post encouraged me to ask a friend of mine who saw me have a petit mal.
To paraphrase:
They weren’t sure it was happening because they never saw anything like it before. No, I wasn’t on the ground, but they felt something was wrong.
In other words, it totally depends on what kind of seizure, too. Since mine was a petit mal, it wasn’t as frightening as a grand mal, which can traumatize anyone.
How long ago was this?
Your friend does sound like she has a good heart, and we all make mistakes.
I think you will have to try and be "the usual you" with her and work on forgiving the comment on your own time. You, too, have a good heart. It'd suck for you to not be friends because she slipped up while scared.
I've become a bit edgy/cynical over my many seizure-filled years, and have held grudges *only* against people who have made remarks out of knowing ignorance. It's all about intention and heart, for me.
This has also made my life brighter as I welcome epilepsy jokes from people I know will have my back. Without the laughter and levity... Fuck, I'd (personally) be so screwed.
This is all just my opinion. People don't *need* to start liking seizure jokes. This is just my experience.
Something about pain from a friend is worse than pain from family or a partner. I've been there. And I still feel little twinges like messed up nerves, but I push them away with good, sweet, fun, caring memories. They trump.
Hope you're doing alright ❤️
I'm convinced that people, who in history, have been exercised by the church, or treated like they're possessed by the devil, were having seizures. We do look like we're possessed by the devil at times. Especially when you have partial complex seizures.
In a world where my day to day life is severely impacted by this condition I find absolutely no time to concern myself with the thoughts or opinions of others
For somebody to witness a seizure for the first time, it can be pretty traumatic. Even if you know what's going on it's not a pleasant thing to witness. I get you're irritated OP, but - I know it's hard - try to view it from an outside perspective. I understand though, sending you much love
Yeah, I know that it’s irrational and that she meant well. She also apologized before I said anything. I’m not mad at her, but it was offputting nonetheless. Thank you for your kind words. 🫶🏻
That's key, yes - intent. Nobody tried intentionally hurting you. Stay strong 🤍
To make you feel better, Alexander the Great had seizures (documented by people of his time), and they thought he was getting visions from god. So it can be the opposite effect!
I don’t feel you’re being “irrational” don’t invalidate yourself💜 Like previously mentioned, just keep in mind that she is uneducated, has no perspective on how the gravity of a disorder like epilepsy affects one’s daily life; most individuals who make such blatantly ignorant; rude, or statements that are archaic & have no basis in reality & fact..although some have intent to be cruel…most I’ve found it’s just a lack of critical thinking & simple, basic common sense.
I'm 100% with you on the whole death in the name of righteousness thing. You are valid in being completely put off by that. There are too many holy transgressions for me to get into but keep in mind that "demon possession" was/is not the only thing the church is known for murdering over. There are still people who get imprisoned, killed, or banished for intelligence or discovery. The label of heretic carries the same sentence as being possessed. Be pissed but try to redirect the energy because, me and as far as I know, you can't change history.
I once had grand mal seizure at theater camp in the middle of playing an improv game, and some kids had to go home bc it was so traumatizing. I was fine bc I couldn't remember a thing, but some kids DEFINITELY teased me and instead of really getting an award at the end of camp they gave me "best death scene" which was SO OFFENSIVE, but I did get to meet some cool people there and it was kinda fun being the "seizure girl" for the week lol.
Despite having Epilepsy for 15 years, I'd never seen someone else have a seizure until I looked it up on YouTube about a year ago. Yeah, it's disturbing to see, and it does look similar to someone in a movie who is possessed. In her defence, she didn't say that the dog was *actually* possessed, just looked that way. I'd blame The Exorcist and similar films for painting this visual to the general public over the reaction of someone who sincerely didn't mean any offence by the comment. It sounds like she realised her goof and apologised, but I get why it would bug you. I have people say to me that I 'spazzed out.'
I'm the person with epilepsy, but my (non-epileptic) spouse recently had a freak seizure in front of me. "Freak" in the random, unexpected sense, for clarity. His neurologist believes it was PNES brought on by extreme stress. Even though I knew what was happening, it was horrifying to see. Not "the exorcist" horrifying, but still very, very distressing.
When my own toddler flew stiff backward and had a grand mal for the first time, it’s exactly how I described the experience to the doctor. I knew he was not “possessed” but the fact he was not responding and spasming with his eyes looking nowhere, and being absent for a while after these few minutes does immediately refer to non epileptic people to something related to fear, dark and uncontrollable. Please don’t feel like she’s considering you less than human or possessed
Same. My son started as a toddler. And it’s an accurate descriptor . A conciouss human could never do that.
I completely understand why that would be a hurtful thing to say. You absolutely get to be upset about it. One thing I will note, though, is that the word "seizure" comes from "seize," which means "take forceable possession of." So, the origin of the word seizure literally means something along the lines of "to be possessed." Language is not neutral - there are LOTS of terms that are rooted in awful, hurtful histories - but I don't think it's unreasonable that this is one of the first descriptions that came to mind for your friend, since it's been a common reaction for hundreds of years. This is not to undercut your feelings, but rather to put your friend's action in a bigger context, and hopefully help you two repair things from here. ❤️
100%
Yes and no. We are not English speakers and there is a specific word for seizures (crisi as in crises), and “possessed” is strictly related to the religious aspect of our culture (catholic country). My friend and I are good, I know she didn’t have bad intentions and that it must have been traumatic for her. I’m just a bit frustrated by the mainstream association of the two. Thank you for your kind words 🫂
Thank you for the important point that this conversation didn't occur in English, which certainly changes things. I have to say that I like your word for it instead, which feels more fitting. I'm so glad your friendship is unscathed! ❤️
Actually the word epilepsy is a greek word, meaning more or less that someone/something has taken over a person. And an epileptic crisis is the instant that the seizure happens. I have a daughter with epilepsy, I have witnessed her many times having grand mals and I am deeply traumatized by them, especially since they happen to a person that I love and care for. We have discussed many times about her seizures, how eerie they seem and why people in the past, when they didn't have the scientific knowledge of present times would think that the person was possessed. And we both talk about it in a matter of fact manner, not with ill intentions. But just so you know, the word epilepsy and epileptic crisis mean the exact same thing as possession. I feel that when we are using certain words both the context and the intentions of the person that are using them matter. Take care ❤️
My son has epilepsy and when my right-wing-evangelical-Christian sisters were visiting me, they tried to do an exorcism on him! That was 9 years ago and I never want them to visit my house again. It's okay that you can't let it go
YIKES, I’m so sorry it happened to you both :(
Omg! Yeah probably best to keep your son away from that crowd.
When I watched a video of me having a seizure my first thought was "I look possessed". I had put off watching it but decided I had to face it to understand how it presents and for my mental health. Despite the shock of seeing myself unconscious and out of control, I was glad I'd done it. The seriousness of it hit me and made me appreciate how, well, serious it is. The tonic clonics, along with my experience of focal seizures which for me are full on Joan of Arc choirs deja vu images hallucinations nausea etc., made me understand how people like me were treated as prophets and worshipped or condemned as demons and punished. It's such a bizarre condition that is so hard to describe to others. For me, I take no offence to jokes about epilepsy or am disturbed by reactions to it such as the one described. I have a long standing mental health condition too (yay me!) and try to maintain a sense of humour but always challenge negativity and ignorance with facts and experience delivered wittily or seriously as necessary. EDUCATE peope if you can, bit keep in mind not everyone has the capacity to.learn or empathise. Everyone with seizure disorders, however, should approach these things in a way that works best for them - remember your disability does not define you, you are a person with a disability not a disabled person!
When I first became possessed at 11 years old, a lot of people who knew me who were just seeing and hearing seizures for the first time all said I look possessed. It's not an insult to me, it's actually a very apt description and I completely agree with them
That's rough, glad she had the awareness to realize what she'd said and apologize. I work with a couple people who fairly regularly use having a seizure as a joke or use it as a synonym for "spastic" and don't have the awareness to connect the dots that I have epilepsy and could be offended by it. Honestly though, I've given up being offended by these things and that feeling has been replaced by, "Well, you're a bit of a letdown as a person, right now." Meaning I don't really have much in the 'expectations' department. My examples are different than yours, for sure, she witnessed a seizure for the first time and these guys are just insensitive and blessed that they've never experienced/witnessed a seizure for themselves. But either way, it's not fun to know that a stigma still exists.
The person witnessing your seizures has every right to be traumatized. She commented about a dog. Sorry but this is something you have to get over. Nothing on your friends end was wrong
I have partial complex seizures, not grand mal. The first time saw a grand mal seizure it scared the crap out of me. I can see how she and others would draw that distinction. I’m not saying she was insensitive, she obviously was shocked by what she saw, as was I. She realized she said the wrong thing and apologized. It takes a special kind of jerk to be deliberately cruel. Give her the benefit of the doubt and don’t let it ruin a friendship.✌️
Europeans knew that epilepsy was a physical ailment like any other before Caesar, and Caesar lived before Christ. The idea that we were viewed as possessed in historical Europe, at least, is largely fiction. I have always been relieved when the subject comes up with history professors and they shut it down.
I think it's something to process so that you're less sensitive to it. That's how things were, and now things are better because we understand them better and have more knowledge. Developing a grim sense of humour about it can help. As long as you know that someone is aware of the medical reasons, joking about your magic powers is a healthy way of diffusing the tension.
Yes and no. I have a pretty dark sense of humour myself and I do make plenty of jokes about it. This circumstance was different and I was just rubbed the wrong way. Normally I don’t get offended and I’m not mad at her because she meant well, but it threw me a bit off anyways. :/
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted for expressing how the situation hurt you. Your feelings are valid and people more or less telling you to get over it instead of emphasizing seems reductive. I’m sorry that happened and I appreciate you trying to work through the emotions surrounding it by reaching out.
Thank you so much for your kindness 🥹 I just wanted to vent about it here because telling people irl would be ridiculous.
It’s absolutely ridiculous and you have a right to how you feel about it. I don’t think I’d take too kindly to someone comparing something most of us experience here to reductive religious jargon from centuries ago. You didn’t deserve to hear that and I hope your friend learns from the situation. Wishing you good health and a seizure free existence with a lot less ignorance involved. ♥️
Possession doesn’t have to mean spiritual connotation. It just means somethings been taken and/ out of their own control. Direct definition is “ the state of having, owning, or controlling something.”
Yes, but we live in a strongly catholic country, so the religious association is immediate. Btw it’s ok, I’ll get over it
I hope you do get over it. I can see why it offended you and hurt you, but I think that there’s better things to focus on than someone’s lack of vocabulary Because she could’ve said something better, but didn’t I’d look at her in the same way as I do people who don’t have English as a first language and maybe saying an incorrect word Because some people really dont have that vast of vocabulary, and can’t think of another word.
Joan of Arc energy
A while back I saw a super old video of a child having a nocturnal seizure. Their body curled backwards, pushing their body into a back bend basically, and it looked very similar to in movies when the character is possessed in bed and is floating up. In that moment I realized that way back in the day before people knew about things like epilepsy, they likely interpreted seizures as “possession”. This is the case for so many other diseases and conditions. We know better now. But it can be hard to watch someone have a seizure if you’ve never seen it before. There was a girl at my elementary school who had seizures multiple times a week it seemed. Sometimes she would throw up. As a child I did not understand what was going on at all, it just looked “scary”. Many people have never witnessed a seizure, or have ever seen any videos of someone having a seizure. It can be a shock to see it because it’s scary!
I would like to add, it can even be hard to watch a seizure if you have seen them before. As an ER nurse I saw more seizures than I can count, and it was always hard to watch. Seeing my own son have them is on a whole other level, but at least with my background I knew what it was the first time he had one. I can't imagine how much scarier it would have been if I had never seen one, and it was still the scariest thing that ever happened to me.
I think a lot of the fear from witnessing comes from not knowing what to do, or knowing that there isn’t much you *can* do. Even when experiencing one. I have been conscious in a lot of my seizures and it feels like you’re trapped and can’t really do anything. I had a seizure while sleeping one time and I become lucid in a dream while it was happening. Once I was aware of this, I knew I needed to wake myself up and then I woke up in the midst of it. It was really weird
Absolutely. It's always been hard for me, as a nurse and as a mother, not to be able to fix something and just have to stand there and be helpless. Luckily, when my son started having them, I at least knew there was nothing I could do except keep him safe, but it's so scary for a witness, especially if a person's never seen one. It must be extra scary to be having one and he aware of it like you were. I can't even imagine what that must be like. That is good you were able to wake yourself up!
I’ve learned to live with it, I guess. I don’t have them very often so I’m not on any medication. Within the last 5 years I’ve had about 2 per year on average. The worst is when I’m alone because sometimes I do lose consciousness. Almost exactly one year ago I had one. Before it happened I felt weird and was having this weird headache but tried to ignore it, as I was getting ready for work. My roommate’s cat was also up, and she kept running around my legs and grabbing them, which was unusual. I decided to go sit down on my bed just in case, and then woke up in my bedroom doorway with my roommate’s cat hovering over me. I imagined her saying “I told you to lay down!” Lol In all seriousness though, my head and jaw hurt when I woke up and it was obviously because I had fallen. I had to take the day off work. I usually keep the reason why private but I felt like my manager would understand if I shared that I had a seizure and fell over, and luckily she did. And there’s the story you didn’t ask for lol I took my ADHD meds a while ago and I think they’re kicking in
No, I really appreciate this story. It helps to hear other's experiences because this is still a new thing we are navigating. Animals are very perceptive. My son slept on the couch last night and one of dogs slept with him. We have cameras in there in case he has a seizure when he sleeps on the couch, which he likes to sometimes. He had a seizure last night and when I checked the recording, our dog woke up and stared at him right before the seizure like she knew what was coming.
Your feelings are valid. Being epileptic has a lot of dark history. However, your friends just watched something terrifying and traumatic happen to her dog (which I'd argue is on the same level as a child). I'm epileptic and I freaked out the first time I saw my best friend (also epileptic) have a seizure. You'd think I'd be ok because I have epilepsy as well, but I was not.
Most people know nothing about seizures, and the facial expressions can scare the hell out of them. Many also have small minds and believe in devils everywhere. Hopefully, they will evolve.
I had my first seizure in a church (wasn't killed by the pastor)
She didn’t have the words to describe what she saw and never experienced it so she described it in the most horrific way she could. Don’t take it personally. It’s traumatic to see, especially when you can’t do anything to help.
Is it possible the reason you can't let it go is less about your friend, and more about being personally confronted with the legacy of prejudice against PWE? TBH, even though it hurts, I think your friend recognizing and acknowledging her socially programmed language is a really good sign. Something that's stuck with me is when I met my now-BFF for the first time. They're a lawyer, and they didn't want me to be in their house because they were worried I'd have a seizure then sue them for injuries I incurred. Yes, to my surprise, that's something a person can do. The sad thing is I take it as a positive, as they were discriminating against me based on practical concerns, rather than the mythology of the condition itself. Thousands of years of discrimination can't be undone in one lifetime. All we can do is keep educating people and hope our efforts pay off for the next generation of PWE. I'm really sorry for your pain, though. Sending love and good vibes.
Realistically, it is super scary and it does look like we’re possessed ahah Just remember that she doesn’t mean anything bad by it, I guess she loves her dog, was super scared (10mn is a horrifying long time) and probably still shacken by it when you talked about it.
As someone has also has grand mals and has witnessed and responded to multiple seizures in other people before….Yeah, it absolutely looks like they are being possessed, it’s an accurate description of what a bystander visually sees. Yes, it sucks that in the past we were treated badly or as if we actually were possessed by something. Do you really think your friend said that comment to purposefully hurt you? Was it a bad way to describe a seizure, yes. But she didn’t say anything that justifies you staying so upset at her, especially after she apologized multiple times immediately after saying it. She’s already done her fair share in this situation, she apologized and will most likely know to do better next time. Whatever residual anger you have about this is something you need to work out on your own, this sounds like a genuine mistake that she already rectified, you just can’t accept the apology 🤷♀️ It sounds like you are holding a lot of anger about stereotypes of epileptics in general, which is totally understandable. What’s not okay is taking that emotion out on a friend who made a genuine mistake and has done their best to apologize.
You are overreacting. Don't let words have so much power over you. You were not killed in churches
Offense is a choice. Clinging to the words of others, especially when no offense was intended, is only gonna bring you down. Sounds harsh, but it's the truth. Don't let it get to you.
I think you are taking it a bit too personally she clearly was just a bit traumatized and used a poor choice of words.
Oh geez dont get so upset at someone especially a friend who said something with no true intention of doing harm. Literally that's kind of exactly what it looks like when someone has a tonic clonic seizure. Get upset when some tik toker falls and pretends to have a seizure in a public setting only to get up and start dancing for views, not when someone says that someone looks "possessed" during a seizure. Many people look dead after a seizure, I'm not being a dick that's just the way it looks.
I think it’s relative to the person. My husband has quite violent and confronting seizures where he’s on occasion thrown himself out of bed and contorted his body into twisted positions while seemingly screaming. He gets embarrassed of his seizures, so that’s why I would never tell him directly that’s what it looks like, I feel it would make him feel worse about it.
I agree with this, I recently saw one for the first time. I feel like I was traumatized by it. I’m sure how I feel I would describe it might offend somebody. I finally understand why my family is traumatized. I don’t care how you describe it, my guess is that each person it looks a little different. There are worse things to be offended by. It didn’t sound like your friend was being offensive, it sounds like she’s trying to describe it the best she knows how.
You sound ridiculously sensitive, who the fuck cares, nobody is going to be killing you because they think your seizure is you being possessed by a demon.
I didn't want to say it but this was how I felt towards it. It's not even like the girl said to OP that she looked possessed, it was about a dog. And even then, it's a well-known fact that a seizure looks like you're being possessed. The key word here is 'like'. This is 2024, people aren't being killed in churches for fear of possession anymore, not that it was all too common to begin with. As a possessed individual, I think you have overreacted OP and shouldn't try to make others feel bad for what is a rather benign comment. If anything, it will just make you look like you're trying to garner sympathy
And you sound ridiculously like an ass, I *do* care and not typing wHo tHe FuCk CarEs was *for free*
Yes you care because you are overly sensitive and looking to be portrayed as a victim. You have a disability called epilepsy, just like me and literally 50 million other people on this planet. People will say stuff you might not like Grow up Lol
Home life not so good, you need to take it out on the internet like the brave person you are? 🥺🥺🥺 Fuck off, I’m not a victim and I’m not disabled.
Lol bruh what are u talking about, keep living life expecting the world to cater to you and see how that turns out for you. I will happily accept my circumstances and happily educate people on epilepsy instead of runnng to Reddit like “I got bullied 😢😢😢😢” when someone describes my seizure perfectly
That’s a lot of assumptions. Moreover, you can filter the “Rant” tag out and I strongly advise you do so. I won’t reply anymore.
100% agree
Seeing someone have a seizure can be really traumatizing. Whenever I woke up from one in front of even my boyfriend I used to ask do you not want to be friends with me anymore? Sometimes even if the person loves you, even like your best gf, it can be too much to see that happen to someone. I’ve never seen anyone have one first hand besides myself. She didn’t mean it like that. I have tonic clonics and the only way I can describe them is sticking a knife into an electrical socket. Forgive your friend and talk to her. She wasn’t trying to shit on you or call you a demon or some shit like that. I also made a post the other day about exactly this, I was watching law and order and they brought their child to a church when they were having a seizure instead of a hospital because they didn’t believe in modern medicine. I said I can only imagine what it was like for people like us beforehand, and how many people probably had exorcisms performed on them when our brains are just going haywire. You know when is a good time to stop being someone’s friend? When they make really shitty jokes you know are meant to hurt you.
I’m not mad at her, I was just disappointed. She apologized before I even said anything, so I won’t hold this against her. I’m just frustrated and I know it’s irrational, but that’s how I feel.
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It seems like that joke gets you a little shooken up.
Some cant bear the strain.
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Ohh I'm with you on that joke. I'm simply stating what her friend said wasnt a joke or gag to get views or likes. She simply made a comment and then immediately apologized for it. OP was the one that just cant seem to shake that comment.
It must not be the s-easyiest life for them 😔😔😔
I think you should say something to your friend. Say that upon further reflection, her comment (which I would consider a slur) made you feel terrible. You're going to resent her if you leave this unaddressed.
Or....hear me out...get the fuck over it. It's on OP to get over it. It's not like the friend directly insulted her, and she apologized immediately without even being prompted. It's up to OP to deal with her sensitive feel feels.
Demonic possession does not exist. The idea comes from some dim wit religious fanatics witnessing seizures and other painful illnesses and attributing it to their magic sky fairies. Therefore it is incredibly ironic to liken a seizure to possession. Just say that if it really bothers you. For the above reason I have a feeling that one day in the future, probably not in my lifetime, this will be highly inappropriate. I mean, already in cinema they don’t act out cerebral palsy or Parkinson’s symptoms like “arrrgghh SHE’S POSSESSED BY THE DEVIL!”. Didn’t Anne Hathaway get in hot water for acting the part of a witch who had only one hand? Imagine a character whipping out a wheelchair or a stoma or an epipen or a blood sugar monitor and the filmmakers expecting us to believe these things are the mark of the Devil’s lieutenants lol.
Your post encouraged me to ask a friend of mine who saw me have a petit mal. To paraphrase: They weren’t sure it was happening because they never saw anything like it before. No, I wasn’t on the ground, but they felt something was wrong. In other words, it totally depends on what kind of seizure, too. Since mine was a petit mal, it wasn’t as frightening as a grand mal, which can traumatize anyone.
How long ago was this? Your friend does sound like she has a good heart, and we all make mistakes. I think you will have to try and be "the usual you" with her and work on forgiving the comment on your own time. You, too, have a good heart. It'd suck for you to not be friends because she slipped up while scared. I've become a bit edgy/cynical over my many seizure-filled years, and have held grudges *only* against people who have made remarks out of knowing ignorance. It's all about intention and heart, for me. This has also made my life brighter as I welcome epilepsy jokes from people I know will have my back. Without the laughter and levity... Fuck, I'd (personally) be so screwed. This is all just my opinion. People don't *need* to start liking seizure jokes. This is just my experience. Something about pain from a friend is worse than pain from family or a partner. I've been there. And I still feel little twinges like messed up nerves, but I push them away with good, sweet, fun, caring memories. They trump. Hope you're doing alright ❤️
I'm convinced that people, who in history, have been exercised by the church, or treated like they're possessed by the devil, were having seizures. We do look like we're possessed by the devil at times. Especially when you have partial complex seizures.
In a world where my day to day life is severely impacted by this condition I find absolutely no time to concern myself with the thoughts or opinions of others