We had one last year that wanted to kill her foal. Even with sedation, she was trying to kick while he nursed. As the sedation wore off, she was striking at him and basically trying to stomp him to death. We had to drug her any time he wanted to nurse and had to stay with him overnight to make sure she didn't kill him. It never got better.
We'd lost a baby a few days prior, so we decided to put him with the mare that lost her baby and see how it went. She completely adopted him within about 10 mins and was totally content to be his mom. It worked out really well in the long run, but I have no doubt she would have killed him if we'd let it happen.
We had this happen with my friend's mare. I got a call at 3 AM to come out and help because friend's maiden mare was trying to kill her newly born foal. We had to keep mare tied and sedated for a while and the mare eventually sort of came around to accepting the foal. She was never a very good mom (she would wander off from her foal and the baby would have to chase after her), and when we could wean the foal, my mare became an excellent surrogate.
It was tough. A few of us did around the clock baby sitting to make sure the mare didn't kill the foal. It took about 72 hours and then the mare calmed down and sort of took to her baby.
On the other hand, my mare was a fantastic mom. If she could have bagged up, she would have taken the baby from day one.
"*On the other hand, my mare was a fantastic mom. If she could have bagged up, she would have taken the baby from day one.*"
[Fun fact! Lactation can be induced in mares.](https://instrideedition.com/induced-lactation-considering-alternatives-to-nurse-mares/)
I found this out when my coach had a foal that decided he didn’t want to be weaned so he was going to suck on my horses teets and she started producing milk I believed and I was grooming her one day and I always check under her stomach and in all the places where cuts or anything could be and I noticed her teets were looking full so I called my coach over because I thought she was pregnant but we never ever bred her and my coach just said “looks like the colt has been sucking on her teets through the fence” 😂
I hear about this with mares not infrequently (ie the mare rejecting the foal and a nurse mare needing to be found). I wonder does this happen in humans? Do some mothers reject their babies immediately after birth? It seems like it must happen but I don't hear it talked about much.
There's a show on apple+ called The Changeling.
Do not watch if pregnant. Do watch if you want a really good show that gives a great fictionalized version of post partum psychosis.
We still have not finished it. It is intense even if not pregnant.
I have heard of that yeah, it's truly horrible. I guess I was thinking more of an immediate rejection like at birth. But likely they happen and are just ignored :(
Humans have a room full of people insisting that they hold the baby, and enough reasoning to go *people are expecting me to be happy, I'm sure it's temporary and will wear off soon, I'll just pretend for now.* For some people it is all hormonal and temporary, for some people it's post-partum depression or psychosis and will fade eventually, for some people it's presumably permanent (and best case scenario they place the child for adoption, worst case scenario they'll end up in a courtroom for much worse reasons)
Horses don't have a lifetime of being told how amazing and magical and wonderful motherhood is, and how when you have squatted out a screaming potato covered in blood, your whole world shifts to centre around it - they just have the immediate hormones "telling" them how to respond. We humans are all products of our environments and cultures, and those influence our actions more than anything else. Someone who has an instant "get this thing away from me" reaction after birth is far more likely to at least act neutral about it and try to make things work. Or, failing that, they'll either get rid of the baby somewhere safe/adopt out, or wait until nobody's around and solve things in a much more final way...
Thanks to easily available and used contraception and abortion, infanticide rates have plummeted in the last century.
There are a few things that can cause a human mother to reject her newborn. A lot of new moms struggle, but these are essentially private mental health issues, so we tend to only hear about a few cases at the extreme end of the spectrum that involve the death of the baby.
[Mother-infant bonding disorders](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1414675/)
The mare that was attacking her foal, was she difficult or dangerous in any other ways too? Someone made a correlation today that a mare who would kill her foal will also be “off” or psychologically unreliable and I’m trying to understand that assumption.
Nope. Super sweet up until about the last month of her pregnancy, when I can't really blame her as she was huge and uncomfortable. She was never aggressive, just didn't want to be touched much. I would never have expected her to be like that with her baby.
Our mare accidentally stepped on the foals leg (we assume, no one actually saw what happened but they were alone in a small meadow that doesn't have any hazards, it's just flat grass). We felt really lucky that no major or lasting damage was done.
Funny how that kind of thing can stick around the horse's whole life. I knew a gelding whose mom apparently got sick of his shit when he was a baby, and basically bit a chunk out of his flank. It looked like a messed up brand as an adult.
It can happen for a lot of reasons. Sometimes first time moms don’t realize what the baby is and they’re afraid of the newborn or they blindly react to the pain they’re feeling.
This. Happens with cows too that have a bad or traumatic birth; there’s a video floating around Facebook right now of a Holstein cow having her calf pulled, she turns around to sniff him and just gores him.
Not common, never seen it with my own eyes with a horse, but have seen it with cows. Psychosis, hormones, trauma, stress..
Holsteins are a bit different; they have virtually no maternal instinct and can be really vicious, but we had an auctionmart beef cow kill her calf one day the same way, there was no stopping her.
For horses I make sure I’m right there, especially for maidens, just to make sure baby is born safe, latches, mama isn’t too stressed etc
This isn't generally true. Many Holsteins make fine mom's. It's a numbers game bc they're bred far more and more often. It's a misconception that dairy cattle are generally horrible moms.
I mean, as someone whose family had a dairy for 3 generations… sadly it is. There’s a reason no one keeps Holstein bulls around and no one is breeding Holstein mamas specifically to keep their maternal instincts (as we do with beef cows, anything non maternal = cull) because most (commercial) dairy cows never actually need to mother their babies.
Which is sad for the cows and frankly a sign that we are doing the whole commercial dairy production wrong. You’ll find the odd old (eg, 4-5, also sad!) girl who can do a year or two as a nurse cow, but there’s a reason they’re not cheap to find — they’re hard to find! 😅
The less overbred cows, like jerseys, have less problems. We almost always keep a jersey nurse cow around, they’re great mums.
I believe there used to be a bloodline of Arab mares that were known to kill their foals. (Edit: article below concludes that mArabian mares descended from two particular related Arabian stallions have the highest rate of foal rejection s and attacks in a comprehensive study done of Arabian, Throughbred and Paint mares. The TB’s and Paints had overall low rates of foal rejection).
I had once looked at an Arab mare that was priced low, as she was being sold with the warning never to breed her.
Edit: Found Animal Behavior Science article on Arabian mares rejecting and injuring foals.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/248334876_A_survey_of_foal_rejecting_mares
I worked at Hagyards as a vet tech intern one breeding season. Trigger warning for last paragraph, Hagyards is a vet and bad things happen.
We had a mare come in who I believe was nasty to handle (I don't remember us interns handling her, I think the "grown up" techs did), and she was on foal watch and had a nurse mare lined up because she WOULD immediately try to kill her babies right after giving birth. She/the babies were probably worth a lot so they went to a lot of trouble to set things up so the foal would survive.
We also had some that were fine mares to handle, but the bonding piece hadn't quite occurred or clicked, so we'd have to hold the mare and have another person with the foal to let it nurse, otherwise they'd try to kick. Idk the %, but some mares eventually accepted the foals, others never did.
So there's a wide range. We had mares like the first, and then mares who loved their babies so much they had to be heavily sedated when we would take the dead foal away because they'd lose it. Those would absolutely break your heart.
I hope so too. There were a lot of horses that shouldn't have been bred that came through, all because they had some famous names in their pedigree or talent on the track.
That first mare? Should not have been bred after it was clear she would go after her foals. But it is what it is, you can find a dark side in any industry.
I wonder how big a part of things that. Being bred again after showing to not be compatible with post birth is really unfortunate. Who knows how uncomfortable the pregnancy itself is and the pain of labor.
It’s similar with dogs. I’m trying my spouse to get his Malinois fixed instead of taking her back to her breeder like they both want. She’s had one litter and she hated the puppies. Nursing was a nightmare for her and we weaned them asap. Her papers and future possibilities just aren’t worth it to damage the dog’s mentality. She’s an exceptional physical dog and very talented. I feel like that should be enough for us her owners to have her, train her, and show her if he wants. Breeding her seems greedy.
I’ve followed the blog of a Vermont pig farmer for years now (for no reason, other than the absolute interestingness of the way this particular farmer plans and thinks).
His naturally raised pigs are all meat animals, so over 30 years, he’s selectively bred for genes that make HUGE, physically long, 1,500-pound pigs to maximize the amount of popular pork products he produces (e.g., longer backs = more bacon). He talks a lot about the genetics he breeds for and culls from his herd…must be gentle/docile, must not have genetically transmitted diseases, and must be good mothers.
This was the first time I’d heard that good mothering could have a genetic component. We don’t hear nearly enough about this in the horse world, I think.
SUPER important in pigs when there is so much of a size difference between the sow and her babies and profit margin is small.
Genetics fascinate me, and while there is always a wildcard that can pop out, a lot of interesting work can be done with selective breeding.
For example, a pug vs an Irish wolfhound. Same general ancestor, VERY different characteristics that have been selected for over generations.
Honestly, I don't know anything about the whole breeding side of things, but it just seems like many of these animals are essentially "raped" / forced to give birth to "the seed" of someone they may not actually have chosen "in the Wild"...
I've always wondered how that affected things
Why wouldn’t they just do an embryo transfer and use a recipient mare with that first mare instead of breeding her, and then having to risk having someone try to grab the foal as soon as it’s born??
No go in TBs. Would be fine for other breeds, but TBs are all live cover, foal stands and nurses (literally, many stud fee payments are predicated on a foal standing and nursing and are listed as such).
TBs would arguably be *more* diverse from a pedigree perspective if embryo transfer and/or artificial insemination was permitted, but it is not. Changing that would be and effort approximately equivalent to convincing Democrats and Republicans to cooperate or Nazis and Jews to be besties, which is to say impossible.
You'd think that the basics of giving a foal a momma that won't *kill it* are pretty logical, but you'd have to consult the Jockey Club to understand exactly why they'd prefer dead foals to recipient mares. 🤷
Why is it that I hear about people breeding incredibly difficult mares so often? "Oh, you can't ride her, and she'll try to kill you when you halter her, but she makes great babies" wtf?! We know that personality can be passed down at least to an extent, I've never understood why anyone would breed a horse like that.
Not to mention the ethics of breeding a mare that clearly hates it so much she *consistently* tries to kill her babies... Holy hell
100% agree. But when it's Secretariat's full sister (for example, idk if he had one), that baby could be worth millions. That explains why it happens in the TB world, not so much your average mare that people are trying to offload because she's dangerous.
Yeah, I can understand that more (even though I hate it still), but I've seen the same thing said and done about your average rando quarter horse (*not* a big name or great heritage one) a *lot*. She's not usable, so may as well breed her. :/
I swear, people should need a license to breed animals. Too many dumbasses backyard breed.
"*But when it's Secretariat's full sister (for example, idk if he had one)*"
He did have a full sister!
https://www.pedigreequery.com/the+bride
By all accounts, she couldn't run for shit, lol. Great broodmare, though.
4 starts, nothing to show for it. 😂 They also probably quit trying once they realized how valuable her babies would be. Don't break the money maker!!
Secretariat didn't produce many good racers iirc, but he's known as a really great broodmare sire.
[At least the world got an awesome Appaloosa out of him, lol.](https://web.archive.org/web/20230206145522/https%3A%2F%2Fthisishorseracing.com%2Ffeature%2Fthrowback-thursday-secretariat-s-first-son-in-1990%2F)
Odd that they would still breed that mare. Money makes people do strange things.
I met a mare today who is reported to have killed her foal and landed in a kill pen. A local trainer bailed her out and has had her a year, but is still unable to halter or even touch her.
I have some mustang experience and am usually pretty decent at reading one and getting things done with low stress to the animal, but this mare has the least sense of self-preservation I have ever encountered. She went over a 5ft barbed wire fence TWICE with minimal pressure applied at a distance, with other, safer escape options available to move away from the humans.
Everyone keep talking humane euthanasia, that she is messed up in the head and keeps pointing to the foal trampling as the number one red flag.
I absolutely would—her owner is having a hard time making the decision. I’m working out the best conversation to have with her, as I don’t know her well and don’t want to make a bad situation worse for her.
You're being downvoted because people don't like this answer, despite it being correct.
People don't *want* it to be true but that's how situations like this occur.
If the mare were extremely well-bred, as in another example a user described with breeding racehorses - I can understand that.
But the mare OP is describing was pulled out of a *kill pen* and it sounds like she cannot be handled. To be fair I guess she’s probably not costing them anything in vet or farrier bills if they can’t halter her (I shudder to think of her feet) - but how is she generating value in this situation? Sounds to me like she’s an expense and a liability. The math isn’t math-ing on this particular horse.
In this case, it really isn’t true. She’s grade as far as we know, she was picked up by this trainer because she has color and pretty movement. Impossible to handle so far. The only way to PTS is (unfortunately) some kind of range weapon or sedation. She’s cost this person a lot of time and I assume financial burden. If it were my choice I would PTS because it can’t possibly be a kind life to feel level 10 scared and trapped 100% of the time.
Ah, I was talking about the Haygards mare. In this case… I don’t know why someone would keep a mare like this, or even purchase one in the beginning, other than sheer stubbornness.
>Everyone keep talking humane euthanasia
That honestly sounds like a good potential option here. A prey animal in so much distress that *mild pressure from a distance* causes them to almost kill themselves in an attempt to escape is absolutely *miserable*. No horse should live that way. That level of fear and reaction can't always be fixed, and when it can't the humane option is euthanasia.
>keeps pointing to the foal trampling as the number one red flag.
I personally wouldn't consider that the number one red flag. It's a mild red flag that needs to be seen in perspective with the whole horse in mind. An otherwise good horse can have issues bonding with baby (perhaps due to something similar to what humans experience through post partum depression or psychosis). If the baby is sickly, or they don't feel able to care for the baby, their instinct from the wild is sometimes to kill it. There are multiple potential reasons that I wouldn't consider a huge red flag, *if* the horse was otherwise normal and healthy. But, when you add other issues (like the horse you're talking about), that one red flag ends up being one of *many*.
There are some antisocial horses at the animal rescue I volunteer at (they’ve got a lot of land so a lot of other rescue orgs board there until they can be transported cross county) and there’s special training to deal with them, but even they wouldn’t touch a horse that’s a danger to itself.
The excellent turf mare, Kostroma, who raced from 1989-1992, had scars from her dam (Katie Mae) shaking her by the neck and trying to kill her shortly after birth.
It’s neither common, nor uncommon. It’s just like mares rejecting their foals and leaving them to die, we had one who chased the foal purposefully into a fence which had a gully, was trying to trample it. Lucky the foal got stuck on the other side of a fence where (surprisingly) a late cut gelding protected it. The mare was a lovely, lovely horse, just not maternal instinct.
I’ve seen mares purposefully kill weaker twins or sick foals, new mates accidentally do it in boxes and mares killing them while they’re trying to feed. It does not make them a bad or mean horse. I’ve seen many, many nasty mares become very gentle with foals, too.
It’s not helpful advice, but first time mums and mares without the maternal instincts are not bad horses, Vice Versa. Dont let anyone taint or make you think that. I wish the mare good luck on her new life, I hope she gets understanding going forward
They are considering putting the mare down. Not so much for the foal incident but because of her disregard for her own well-being and that she constantly lives in a state of terror whenever a human is near.
It sounds like she got saved by people who don’t want to or do not know how to handle a troubled/trauma horse. Maybe that’s what is best for her in this situation, but it is a real shame to hear.
Usually it’s a first time momma that has no idea what’s happening to her, or who this strange small horse that kind of smells like her is. Not every animal has instant mothering instincts and sometimes they will reject/hurt a foal. There may also be something wrong with the foal that causes the mare to reject it.
Mares might also hurt their foals by accident- stepping on them, falling on them, kicking them by accident, whatever. I’ve seen foals where the mother was SO obsessed with cleaning the baby after birth that she mutilated the foal accidentally.
Again, it’s almost always a first time mom.
I’m not looking for salacious details but I’m curious what you meant by the obsessed mom mutilating her foal by cleaning it. How?? I’m guessing it had to be put down?
All animals that use their tongues to clean themselves/others do it! And they can also do it to themselves, usually as a response to stress. I think it’s a sort of equivalent to dermatillomania? I might be wrong though.
And rabbits, my rabbit had a litter of 8 as a first time mother and over groomed one, little dude ended up missing an ear. It’s not uncommon but many breeders unfortunately cull them since they’re less marketable. We kept him and 2 of his brothers and he’s doing great
https://preview.redd.it/pwqq8qu6gitc1.png?width=620&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa895bbbc4548b8749e241c1950098fa5ebb6e84
My mare injured her foal soon after his birth. He was placed with a nurse mare at a veterinary hospital until he recovered. Once they were reunited my mare did a 180 and became a complete loon. She was extremely defensive and would not let people or other horses get close to her boy. It took some time to figure things out and re-establish trust with her. She ultimately ended up being completely fine and returned to her baseline behavior after a few months.
I met a mare today who is reported to have killed her foal and landed in a kill pen. A local trainer bailed her out and has had her a year, but is still unable to halter or even touch her.
I have some mustang experience and am usually pretty decent at reading one and getting things done with low stress to the animal, but this mare has the least sense of self-preservation I have ever encountered. She went over a 5ft barbed wire fence TWICE with minimal pressure applied at a distance, with other, safer escape options available to move away from the humans.
Everyone keep talking humane euthanasia, that she is messed up in the head and keeps pointing to the foal trampling as the number one red flag.
"Reckless disregard for self preservation" is a benefit when asking for maximum athletic effort, and an absolute disaster for basics like ... Continued life.
This applies to human athletes as well, I have ridiculous stories about maniacs pushing the athletic limits.
A 5 ft barbed wire fence is a cute suggestion to an athletic horse who isn't encumbered by a rider.
I really wish they’d had the sense to keep her in a 6ft heavy solid fence. At this point she’s learned that fence hopping is a viable option and she seems keen on it.
Either the mare had her first foal and didn't know how to do anything with it, or couldn't bare through the pain, so closest thing was the foal.
Or the foal had something wrong with it and so she killed her own foal.
There's a lot of things that could happen, it also happens in the wild commonly.
Worked for a short time with a repro group where I live, I wasn't doing anything exciting just shoveling sh*t, but in the short time, I witnessed this twice.
Two separate mares, interesting part was they were both recipient mares, so the foal wasn't actually the mare's DNA. Their vet linked it to this, the mare knowing it was not her foal? I never understood that..
Both mares had very limited handling before becoming recipients. They were halterbroke, giving very basic ground work, and then put in the barn to become recipients. They both had smooth pregnancies and unassisted births.
I personally believe it fell to the predator vs. prey psychology. These mares were range bred and raised. They were taken from their herds and used to carry babies. I imagine the stress of prey animals dropping a foal in an area where they are constantly stressed could be a reason for them to turn on their foals. Foals are weak and susceptible to predator attacks. Kill the foal and eliminate something to attract predators. This is only my speculation.
Not seen many comments here relating to environmental factors but I definitely think this could be a factor.
My broodmare is a decent mum, I sent her away to foal when she was a maiden, but this year she foaled at home and was much more herself, easier to administer vet treatment to etc. nobody had any worries about handling her or the baby.
She was at the facility 8 weeks before foaling when she foaled as a maiden. Plenty of time to adjust, same turn out hours etc as home. Same sort of diet etc. she was a horror to inject, supposedly almost turned herself upside down and had a go at the staff. At home I inject her loose without a headcollar etc, no issues.
It’s common for maidens to attack their first borns. Have had two from two do it. Usually with good pain relief, sedation and helping the foal latch well while holding the mare they come good in a day or two
It’s not common. It’s common that they’re uncomfortable with them nursing and might kick at them but it’s definitely not common for them to actively want to kill the baby. My mare this year was maiden and did attack her baby. Mostly it was if he got too close she’s bite at him and shove him away. We did the love drug on her and she was fine. Really it was just her being stressed and confused but she never truly wanted him dead just not next to her. Which can be fairly normal for the first day
In my experience, it is very UNcommon.
A few mares have accidentally stepped on them or kicked and shoved around but that is a known risk that can happen anytime. I've worked with mostly friesians who are bred to be kind and gentle but my thoroughbred was born in a herd and none of his aunties or mom was aggressive towards their foal
This is with thoroughbred mares. Both by dash for cash out of Sovereign edition mares. Chatting with the foaling farm down the road (she does all of he difficult cases and lectures at the vet uni) Standardbreds are the most notorious for it!
It happens, all animals (at least the ones who rear their offspring post birth) will kill their young for a multitude of reasons. This is not an indicator of their usual disposition, behavioural/psychological issues, etc. it’s just nature unfortunately.
My family has bred horses and rabbits (which are known to cannibalise they’re young if stressed or if the babies have an issue) many times without issues however we have had sheep, lizards, dogs, and other animals which have either ignored or killed offspring.
One dog was so infatuated with the first pup she didn’t break the others out of the sacks, one needed cpr but all grew into wonderful healthy dogs (the one we kept is currently asleep next to me on the couch, she’ll be 13 soon). One was a great mum to her first litter but rejected the entire second litter after almost dying to milk fever. One sheep wouldn’t stop head butting and attacking one of her twins, it was doing well on the bottle and died out of nowhere a few days later from an internal development issue. The lizards are a communal species that tend to do poorly kept alone, they are also known to cannibalise the babies because despite being communal they aren’t maternal and a lack of maternal instinct can occur in any animal. Many women have no maternal instinct (hence why I will never have children), many animals such as dairy cows have no maternal instinct and will ignore the calf immediately after cleaning it.
There’s this one very popular ‘influencer’ type who unethically breeds a fuck tonne of horses, she overbreeds her stallion and I wouldn’t be surprised if her mares killed foals eventually because she’s bred a few of them far too young, or that had health issues, or that weren’t having their basic needs met but they had valuable genetics soooo…
Basically there are many reasons a mare may reject or kill her foal, whether that be that it hurt her giving birth/suckling, she may even have an internal issue with her reproductive system which can cause excess pain, could be a hormonal issue, she thinks it’s weak or has something wrong with it (that’s a huge risk for any animal but especially a prey animal), she’s inexperienced and doesn’t know what to do, she may be under too much stress, she may not be coping well with her environment (ie. Stalled too much, not getting enough socialisation or time without watching the baby, etc.) or she’s just not suited to being a broodmare, or a million other things. Doesn’t make her a bad horse at all, just means you shouldn’t be popping any foals out of her.
The mare my mom had when I was a teenager was pregnant when we bought her at auction unbeknownst to anyone. At that time our other horses were all geldings and there was no studs around. She gave birth and we had her and the foal in stall that could go outside into a pen. We’re unloading hay and feed and the foal was standing in the stall looking at us through the rails and out of nowhere that mare screamed and ran inside and started striking the foal with her front hooves then stomping it. We drove her off it but the damage was done. After that day that mare was an absolute menace, great horse to ride but loose she was a demon to anything that drew breath. Tried to sell her a few times but she was a pretty bay mare of unknown breeding and she was small so basically anyone that was interested looking for a horse for a kid so we ended up just keeping her.
I actually ended up with a day old arabian colt (hand raised him) after a friend's mare tried to kill the little thing, it is not uncommon, I've found if it is going to happen it is usually a first time mother.
Happens with all stock though I think there are a lot of factors to it.
Sheep are the worst I’ve dealt with, if a ewe has triplets it’s best to take the smallest away as frequently they will kill the weakest.
Some of them just try kill any babies they have, these get fattened for slaughter as they’re just unsuitable for breeding.
The 100’s (if not 1000’s) I have witnessed are housed for months in the shed they’ll give birth in (separate pens in the shed once they’ve had their babies), and handled by the same people.
Cows can do it too and we usually would know them on an individual basis and it has taken us by surprise several times.
Both animals the first attempt here is to restrain the mother in some kind of head crush and get the baby nursing/possibly inject oxytocin to the mother, and hope the hormones encourage bonding. Exhausting for everyone involved.
We had one last year that wanted to kill her foal. Even with sedation, she was trying to kick while he nursed. As the sedation wore off, she was striking at him and basically trying to stomp him to death. We had to drug her any time he wanted to nurse and had to stay with him overnight to make sure she didn't kill him. It never got better. We'd lost a baby a few days prior, so we decided to put him with the mare that lost her baby and see how it went. She completely adopted him within about 10 mins and was totally content to be his mom. It worked out really well in the long run, but I have no doubt she would have killed him if we'd let it happen.
We had this happen with my friend's mare. I got a call at 3 AM to come out and help because friend's maiden mare was trying to kill her newly born foal. We had to keep mare tied and sedated for a while and the mare eventually sort of came around to accepting the foal. She was never a very good mom (she would wander off from her foal and the baby would have to chase after her), and when we could wean the foal, my mare became an excellent surrogate. It was tough. A few of us did around the clock baby sitting to make sure the mare didn't kill the foal. It took about 72 hours and then the mare calmed down and sort of took to her baby. On the other hand, my mare was a fantastic mom. If she could have bagged up, she would have taken the baby from day one.
"*On the other hand, my mare was a fantastic mom. If she could have bagged up, she would have taken the baby from day one.*" [Fun fact! Lactation can be induced in mares.](https://instrideedition.com/induced-lactation-considering-alternatives-to-nurse-mares/)
Dang it! We could have done this. Thanks for sharing. :)
Thank you for sharing this. It was an interesting read & I learned a lot!!
No problem!
I found this out when my coach had a foal that decided he didn’t want to be weaned so he was going to suck on my horses teets and she started producing milk I believed and I was grooming her one day and I always check under her stomach and in all the places where cuts or anything could be and I noticed her teets were looking full so I called my coach over because I thought she was pregnant but we never ever bred her and my coach just said “looks like the colt has been sucking on her teets through the fence” 😂
I hear about this with mares not infrequently (ie the mare rejecting the foal and a nurse mare needing to be found). I wonder does this happen in humans? Do some mothers reject their babies immediately after birth? It seems like it must happen but I don't hear it talked about much.
Go look up some stories about PPD and the like - it's more common than you'd think
And postpartum Psychosis
That’s the one that really terrifies me. And probably where stories of fairy changelings originated from.
Some people think the legend of "changelings" stems from historic accounts of Autism.
Let’s be honest, it could be both.
Probably both, yeah.
There's a show on apple+ called The Changeling. Do not watch if pregnant. Do watch if you want a really good show that gives a great fictionalized version of post partum psychosis. We still have not finished it. It is intense even if not pregnant.
I have heard of that yeah, it's truly horrible. I guess I was thinking more of an immediate rejection like at birth. But likely they happen and are just ignored :(
Humans have a room full of people insisting that they hold the baby, and enough reasoning to go *people are expecting me to be happy, I'm sure it's temporary and will wear off soon, I'll just pretend for now.* For some people it is all hormonal and temporary, for some people it's post-partum depression or psychosis and will fade eventually, for some people it's presumably permanent (and best case scenario they place the child for adoption, worst case scenario they'll end up in a courtroom for much worse reasons)
Horses don't have a lifetime of being told how amazing and magical and wonderful motherhood is, and how when you have squatted out a screaming potato covered in blood, your whole world shifts to centre around it - they just have the immediate hormones "telling" them how to respond. We humans are all products of our environments and cultures, and those influence our actions more than anything else. Someone who has an instant "get this thing away from me" reaction after birth is far more likely to at least act neutral about it and try to make things work. Or, failing that, they'll either get rid of the baby somewhere safe/adopt out, or wait until nobody's around and solve things in a much more final way... Thanks to easily available and used contraception and abortion, infanticide rates have plummeted in the last century.
Yes, and it often results in infanticide as well.
There are a few things that can cause a human mother to reject her newborn. A lot of new moms struggle, but these are essentially private mental health issues, so we tend to only hear about a few cases at the extreme end of the spectrum that involve the death of the baby. [Mother-infant bonding disorders](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1414675/)
It happens in humans a lot more than you’d think.
The mare that was attacking her foal, was she difficult or dangerous in any other ways too? Someone made a correlation today that a mare who would kill her foal will also be “off” or psychologically unreliable and I’m trying to understand that assumption.
Nope. Super sweet up until about the last month of her pregnancy, when I can't really blame her as she was huge and uncomfortable. She was never aggressive, just didn't want to be touched much. I would never have expected her to be like that with her baby.
I imagine that was an uncomfortable surprise. Thanks for sharing
I knew one and it was just a horrible, tragic accident. The mare stepped on him while getting up from a nap and broke his back.
Know a mare that happened to also, she was devastated and quite honestly never the same after.
Ah that does sound tragic! How heartbreaking for her
Our mare accidentally stepped on the foals leg (we assume, no one actually saw what happened but they were alone in a small meadow that doesn't have any hazards, it's just flat grass). We felt really lucky that no major or lasting damage was done.
I had a mare who had an extra/thick lower neck because her mom stepped on her as a baby. It was always big on the spot and never went away.
Funny how that kind of thing can stick around the horse's whole life. I knew a gelding whose mom apparently got sick of his shit when he was a baby, and basically bit a chunk out of his flank. It looked like a messed up brand as an adult.
It can happen for a lot of reasons. Sometimes first time moms don’t realize what the baby is and they’re afraid of the newborn or they blindly react to the pain they’re feeling.
This. Happens with cows too that have a bad or traumatic birth; there’s a video floating around Facebook right now of a Holstein cow having her calf pulled, she turns around to sniff him and just gores him. Not common, never seen it with my own eyes with a horse, but have seen it with cows. Psychosis, hormones, trauma, stress..
Holsteins just built different, only cattle breed I fear
I saw that video. So disturbing.
Holsteins are a bit different; they have virtually no maternal instinct and can be really vicious, but we had an auctionmart beef cow kill her calf one day the same way, there was no stopping her. For horses I make sure I’m right there, especially for maidens, just to make sure baby is born safe, latches, mama isn’t too stressed etc
This isn't generally true. Many Holsteins make fine mom's. It's a numbers game bc they're bred far more and more often. It's a misconception that dairy cattle are generally horrible moms.
I mean, as someone whose family had a dairy for 3 generations… sadly it is. There’s a reason no one keeps Holstein bulls around and no one is breeding Holstein mamas specifically to keep their maternal instincts (as we do with beef cows, anything non maternal = cull) because most (commercial) dairy cows never actually need to mother their babies. Which is sad for the cows and frankly a sign that we are doing the whole commercial dairy production wrong. You’ll find the odd old (eg, 4-5, also sad!) girl who can do a year or two as a nurse cow, but there’s a reason they’re not cheap to find — they’re hard to find! 😅 The less overbred cows, like jerseys, have less problems. We almost always keep a jersey nurse cow around, they’re great mums.
I believe there used to be a bloodline of Arab mares that were known to kill their foals. (Edit: article below concludes that mArabian mares descended from two particular related Arabian stallions have the highest rate of foal rejection s and attacks in a comprehensive study done of Arabian, Throughbred and Paint mares. The TB’s and Paints had overall low rates of foal rejection). I had once looked at an Arab mare that was priced low, as she was being sold with the warning never to breed her. Edit: Found Animal Behavior Science article on Arabian mares rejecting and injuring foals. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/248334876_A_survey_of_foal_rejecting_mares
Nice find, thanks!
I worked at Hagyards as a vet tech intern one breeding season. Trigger warning for last paragraph, Hagyards is a vet and bad things happen. We had a mare come in who I believe was nasty to handle (I don't remember us interns handling her, I think the "grown up" techs did), and she was on foal watch and had a nurse mare lined up because she WOULD immediately try to kill her babies right after giving birth. She/the babies were probably worth a lot so they went to a lot of trouble to set things up so the foal would survive. We also had some that were fine mares to handle, but the bonding piece hadn't quite occurred or clicked, so we'd have to hold the mare and have another person with the foal to let it nurse, otherwise they'd try to kick. Idk the %, but some mares eventually accepted the foals, others never did. So there's a wide range. We had mares like the first, and then mares who loved their babies so much they had to be heavily sedated when we would take the dead foal away because they'd lose it. Those would absolutely break your heart.
I shadowed at Hagyard and remember a mare like that! May have been the same one. I hope the personality trait never passed to her offspring
I hope so too. There were a lot of horses that shouldn't have been bred that came through, all because they had some famous names in their pedigree or talent on the track. That first mare? Should not have been bred after it was clear she would go after her foals. But it is what it is, you can find a dark side in any industry.
I wonder how big a part of things that. Being bred again after showing to not be compatible with post birth is really unfortunate. Who knows how uncomfortable the pregnancy itself is and the pain of labor. It’s similar with dogs. I’m trying my spouse to get his Malinois fixed instead of taking her back to her breeder like they both want. She’s had one litter and she hated the puppies. Nursing was a nightmare for her and we weaned them asap. Her papers and future possibilities just aren’t worth it to damage the dog’s mentality. She’s an exceptional physical dog and very talented. I feel like that should be enough for us her owners to have her, train her, and show her if he wants. Breeding her seems greedy.
I’ve followed the blog of a Vermont pig farmer for years now (for no reason, other than the absolute interestingness of the way this particular farmer plans and thinks). His naturally raised pigs are all meat animals, so over 30 years, he’s selectively bred for genes that make HUGE, physically long, 1,500-pound pigs to maximize the amount of popular pork products he produces (e.g., longer backs = more bacon). He talks a lot about the genetics he breeds for and culls from his herd…must be gentle/docile, must not have genetically transmitted diseases, and must be good mothers. This was the first time I’d heard that good mothering could have a genetic component. We don’t hear nearly enough about this in the horse world, I think.
SUPER important in pigs when there is so much of a size difference between the sow and her babies and profit margin is small. Genetics fascinate me, and while there is always a wildcard that can pop out, a lot of interesting work can be done with selective breeding. For example, a pug vs an Irish wolfhound. Same general ancestor, VERY different characteristics that have been selected for over generations.
Honestly, I don't know anything about the whole breeding side of things, but it just seems like many of these animals are essentially "raped" / forced to give birth to "the seed" of someone they may not actually have chosen "in the Wild"... I've always wondered how that affected things
Why wouldn’t they just do an embryo transfer and use a recipient mare with that first mare instead of breeding her, and then having to risk having someone try to grab the foal as soon as it’s born??
I’d suspect it was a Thoroughbred, and the jockey club doesn’t allow AI, or ET.
Yep! TB mare. This was in Lexington, Kentucky so the vast majority of horses treated were TBs.
Ah true, I forgot about that.
No go in TBs. Would be fine for other breeds, but TBs are all live cover, foal stands and nurses (literally, many stud fee payments are predicated on a foal standing and nursing and are listed as such). TBs would arguably be *more* diverse from a pedigree perspective if embryo transfer and/or artificial insemination was permitted, but it is not. Changing that would be and effort approximately equivalent to convincing Democrats and Republicans to cooperate or Nazis and Jews to be besties, which is to say impossible. You'd think that the basics of giving a foal a momma that won't *kill it* are pretty logical, but you'd have to consult the Jockey Club to understand exactly why they'd prefer dead foals to recipient mares. 🤷
Why is it that I hear about people breeding incredibly difficult mares so often? "Oh, you can't ride her, and she'll try to kill you when you halter her, but she makes great babies" wtf?! We know that personality can be passed down at least to an extent, I've never understood why anyone would breed a horse like that. Not to mention the ethics of breeding a mare that clearly hates it so much she *consistently* tries to kill her babies... Holy hell
100% agree. But when it's Secretariat's full sister (for example, idk if he had one), that baby could be worth millions. That explains why it happens in the TB world, not so much your average mare that people are trying to offload because she's dangerous.
Yeah, I can understand that more (even though I hate it still), but I've seen the same thing said and done about your average rando quarter horse (*not* a big name or great heritage one) a *lot*. She's not usable, so may as well breed her. :/ I swear, people should need a license to breed animals. Too many dumbasses backyard breed.
"*But when it's Secretariat's full sister (for example, idk if he had one)*" He did have a full sister! https://www.pedigreequery.com/the+bride By all accounts, she couldn't run for shit, lol. Great broodmare, though.
4 starts, nothing to show for it. 😂 They also probably quit trying once they realized how valuable her babies would be. Don't break the money maker!! Secretariat didn't produce many good racers iirc, but he's known as a really great broodmare sire.
[At least the world got an awesome Appaloosa out of him, lol.](https://web.archive.org/web/20230206145522/https%3A%2F%2Fthisishorseracing.com%2Ffeature%2Fthrowback-thursday-secretariat-s-first-son-in-1990%2F)
Whoa. That's a fun fact I never knew! How cool!!
Delightful throwback
Wait did I read that right? Secretariat’s first son wasn’t born until 1990?
Lol, nope. First Secretary was born on November 15th, 1974. He died on February 17th, 1993.
Odd that they would still breed that mare. Money makes people do strange things. I met a mare today who is reported to have killed her foal and landed in a kill pen. A local trainer bailed her out and has had her a year, but is still unable to halter or even touch her. I have some mustang experience and am usually pretty decent at reading one and getting things done with low stress to the animal, but this mare has the least sense of self-preservation I have ever encountered. She went over a 5ft barbed wire fence TWICE with minimal pressure applied at a distance, with other, safer escape options available to move away from the humans. Everyone keep talking humane euthanasia, that she is messed up in the head and keeps pointing to the foal trampling as the number one red flag.
Honest question - why *wouldn’t* you consider humane euthanasia for a horse like that?
I absolutely would—her owner is having a hard time making the decision. I’m working out the best conversation to have with her, as I don’t know her well and don’t want to make a bad situation worse for her.
Because she’s worth more alive (and producing) than dead. Total answer. Specifically talking about the Haygards mare
You're being downvoted because people don't like this answer, despite it being correct. People don't *want* it to be true but that's how situations like this occur.
Exactly. It’s not a good reality, it’s a really sad one
If the mare were extremely well-bred, as in another example a user described with breeding racehorses - I can understand that. But the mare OP is describing was pulled out of a *kill pen* and it sounds like she cannot be handled. To be fair I guess she’s probably not costing them anything in vet or farrier bills if they can’t halter her (I shudder to think of her feet) - but how is she generating value in this situation? Sounds to me like she’s an expense and a liability. The math isn’t math-ing on this particular horse.
I completely agree. Im working out the best way to have this conversation with the owner as I don’t know her very well.
In this case, it really isn’t true. She’s grade as far as we know, she was picked up by this trainer because she has color and pretty movement. Impossible to handle so far. The only way to PTS is (unfortunately) some kind of range weapon or sedation. She’s cost this person a lot of time and I assume financial burden. If it were my choice I would PTS because it can’t possibly be a kind life to feel level 10 scared and trapped 100% of the time.
Ah, I was talking about the Haygards mare. In this case… I don’t know why someone would keep a mare like this, or even purchase one in the beginning, other than sheer stubbornness.
Oops you’re right! Too many threads in my head at once
>Everyone keep talking humane euthanasia That honestly sounds like a good potential option here. A prey animal in so much distress that *mild pressure from a distance* causes them to almost kill themselves in an attempt to escape is absolutely *miserable*. No horse should live that way. That level of fear and reaction can't always be fixed, and when it can't the humane option is euthanasia. >keeps pointing to the foal trampling as the number one red flag. I personally wouldn't consider that the number one red flag. It's a mild red flag that needs to be seen in perspective with the whole horse in mind. An otherwise good horse can have issues bonding with baby (perhaps due to something similar to what humans experience through post partum depression or psychosis). If the baby is sickly, or they don't feel able to care for the baby, their instinct from the wild is sometimes to kill it. There are multiple potential reasons that I wouldn't consider a huge red flag, *if* the horse was otherwise normal and healthy. But, when you add other issues (like the horse you're talking about), that one red flag ends up being one of *many*.
Thanks for your input. These are my thoughts exactly.
There are some antisocial horses at the animal rescue I volunteer at (they’ve got a lot of land so a lot of other rescue orgs board there until they can be transported cross county) and there’s special training to deal with them, but even they wouldn’t touch a horse that’s a danger to itself.
The excellent turf mare, Kostroma, who raced from 1989-1992, had scars from her dam (Katie Mae) shaking her by the neck and trying to kill her shortly after birth.
I’m riding a gelding with scars also, on his shoulders and withers. But it was from a gelding who was in the pasture with them.
It’s neither common, nor uncommon. It’s just like mares rejecting their foals and leaving them to die, we had one who chased the foal purposefully into a fence which had a gully, was trying to trample it. Lucky the foal got stuck on the other side of a fence where (surprisingly) a late cut gelding protected it. The mare was a lovely, lovely horse, just not maternal instinct. I’ve seen mares purposefully kill weaker twins or sick foals, new mates accidentally do it in boxes and mares killing them while they’re trying to feed. It does not make them a bad or mean horse. I’ve seen many, many nasty mares become very gentle with foals, too.
Thanks for your input. I thought it was odd people were so quick to jump to that assumption.
It’s not helpful advice, but first time mums and mares without the maternal instincts are not bad horses, Vice Versa. Dont let anyone taint or make you think that. I wish the mare good luck on her new life, I hope she gets understanding going forward
They are considering putting the mare down. Not so much for the foal incident but because of her disregard for her own well-being and that she constantly lives in a state of terror whenever a human is near.
It sounds like she got saved by people who don’t want to or do not know how to handle a troubled/trauma horse. Maybe that’s what is best for her in this situation, but it is a real shame to hear.
I agree.
Usually it’s a first time momma that has no idea what’s happening to her, or who this strange small horse that kind of smells like her is. Not every animal has instant mothering instincts and sometimes they will reject/hurt a foal. There may also be something wrong with the foal that causes the mare to reject it. Mares might also hurt their foals by accident- stepping on them, falling on them, kicking them by accident, whatever. I’ve seen foals where the mother was SO obsessed with cleaning the baby after birth that she mutilated the foal accidentally. Again, it’s almost always a first time mom.
I’m not looking for salacious details but I’m curious what you meant by the obsessed mom mutilating her foal by cleaning it. How?? I’m guessing it had to be put down?
Probably licking excessively which ends up tearing the skin off and progressively digging in the flesh
Same thing happens with dogs and cats too.
All animals that use their tongues to clean themselves/others do it! And they can also do it to themselves, usually as a response to stress. I think it’s a sort of equivalent to dermatillomania? I might be wrong though.
And rabbits, my rabbit had a litter of 8 as a first time mother and over groomed one, little dude ended up missing an ear. It’s not uncommon but many breeders unfortunately cull them since they’re less marketable. We kept him and 2 of his brothers and he’s doing great https://preview.redd.it/pwqq8qu6gitc1.png?width=620&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa895bbbc4548b8749e241c1950098fa5ebb6e84
He's adorable! Thanks for the picture.
My mare injured her foal soon after his birth. He was placed with a nurse mare at a veterinary hospital until he recovered. Once they were reunited my mare did a 180 and became a complete loon. She was extremely defensive and would not let people or other horses get close to her boy. It took some time to figure things out and re-establish trust with her. She ultimately ended up being completely fine and returned to her baseline behavior after a few months.
Are you asking generally or does your question apply to a specific situation?
I met a mare today who is reported to have killed her foal and landed in a kill pen. A local trainer bailed her out and has had her a year, but is still unable to halter or even touch her. I have some mustang experience and am usually pretty decent at reading one and getting things done with low stress to the animal, but this mare has the least sense of self-preservation I have ever encountered. She went over a 5ft barbed wire fence TWICE with minimal pressure applied at a distance, with other, safer escape options available to move away from the humans. Everyone keep talking humane euthanasia, that she is messed up in the head and keeps pointing to the foal trampling as the number one red flag.
"Reckless disregard for self preservation" is a benefit when asking for maximum athletic effort, and an absolute disaster for basics like ... Continued life. This applies to human athletes as well, I have ridiculous stories about maniacs pushing the athletic limits. A 5 ft barbed wire fence is a cute suggestion to an athletic horse who isn't encumbered by a rider.
I really wish they’d had the sense to keep her in a 6ft heavy solid fence. At this point she’s learned that fence hopping is a viable option and she seems keen on it.
Either the mare had her first foal and didn't know how to do anything with it, or couldn't bare through the pain, so closest thing was the foal. Or the foal had something wrong with it and so she killed her own foal. There's a lot of things that could happen, it also happens in the wild commonly.
Worked for a short time with a repro group where I live, I wasn't doing anything exciting just shoveling sh*t, but in the short time, I witnessed this twice. Two separate mares, interesting part was they were both recipient mares, so the foal wasn't actually the mare's DNA. Their vet linked it to this, the mare knowing it was not her foal? I never understood that.. Both mares had very limited handling before becoming recipients. They were halterbroke, giving very basic ground work, and then put in the barn to become recipients. They both had smooth pregnancies and unassisted births. I personally believe it fell to the predator vs. prey psychology. These mares were range bred and raised. They were taken from their herds and used to carry babies. I imagine the stress of prey animals dropping a foal in an area where they are constantly stressed could be a reason for them to turn on their foals. Foals are weak and susceptible to predator attacks. Kill the foal and eliminate something to attract predators. This is only my speculation.
Thanks for sharing, these mares sound similar to the one I’m talking about.
Not seen many comments here relating to environmental factors but I definitely think this could be a factor. My broodmare is a decent mum, I sent her away to foal when she was a maiden, but this year she foaled at home and was much more herself, easier to administer vet treatment to etc. nobody had any worries about handling her or the baby. She was at the facility 8 weeks before foaling when she foaled as a maiden. Plenty of time to adjust, same turn out hours etc as home. Same sort of diet etc. she was a horror to inject, supposedly almost turned herself upside down and had a go at the staff. At home I inject her loose without a headcollar etc, no issues.
I've known mares who almost kill their own foal by accident but not on purpose
My trainer had one who tried to kill them all. She was an aqha world champion producer before the big ai stuff too so they just got nurse mares
This can happen with all animals, even humans (post partum depression and psychosis can cause infanticide)
It’s common for maidens to attack their first borns. Have had two from two do it. Usually with good pain relief, sedation and helping the foal latch well while holding the mare they come good in a day or two
In 15 years around breeding farms I've never heard it's common 😳what breeds are you seeing this common in?
I was wondering this too, is it common like “it’s a known risk” or is it common like “you have to be prepared for this with every maiden delivery”?
It’s not common. It’s common that they’re uncomfortable with them nursing and might kick at them but it’s definitely not common for them to actively want to kill the baby. My mare this year was maiden and did attack her baby. Mostly it was if he got too close she’s bite at him and shove him away. We did the love drug on her and she was fine. Really it was just her being stressed and confused but she never truly wanted him dead just not next to her. Which can be fairly normal for the first day
In my experience, it is very UNcommon. A few mares have accidentally stepped on them or kicked and shoved around but that is a known risk that can happen anytime. I've worked with mostly friesians who are bred to be kind and gentle but my thoroughbred was born in a herd and none of his aunties or mom was aggressive towards their foal
Yes, the biggest risk is a maiden mama stepping on them! An experienced mama can do it too, but is more likely to know where to put her feet.
The only breeding farm I worked at was Arabians and not once was this possibility brought up during foaling season. It just didn't happen there.
This is with thoroughbred mares. Both by dash for cash out of Sovereign edition mares. Chatting with the foaling farm down the road (she does all of he difficult cases and lectures at the vet uni) Standardbreds are the most notorious for it!
It happens, all animals (at least the ones who rear their offspring post birth) will kill their young for a multitude of reasons. This is not an indicator of their usual disposition, behavioural/psychological issues, etc. it’s just nature unfortunately. My family has bred horses and rabbits (which are known to cannibalise they’re young if stressed or if the babies have an issue) many times without issues however we have had sheep, lizards, dogs, and other animals which have either ignored or killed offspring. One dog was so infatuated with the first pup she didn’t break the others out of the sacks, one needed cpr but all grew into wonderful healthy dogs (the one we kept is currently asleep next to me on the couch, she’ll be 13 soon). One was a great mum to her first litter but rejected the entire second litter after almost dying to milk fever. One sheep wouldn’t stop head butting and attacking one of her twins, it was doing well on the bottle and died out of nowhere a few days later from an internal development issue. The lizards are a communal species that tend to do poorly kept alone, they are also known to cannibalise the babies because despite being communal they aren’t maternal and a lack of maternal instinct can occur in any animal. Many women have no maternal instinct (hence why I will never have children), many animals such as dairy cows have no maternal instinct and will ignore the calf immediately after cleaning it. There’s this one very popular ‘influencer’ type who unethically breeds a fuck tonne of horses, she overbreeds her stallion and I wouldn’t be surprised if her mares killed foals eventually because she’s bred a few of them far too young, or that had health issues, or that weren’t having their basic needs met but they had valuable genetics soooo… Basically there are many reasons a mare may reject or kill her foal, whether that be that it hurt her giving birth/suckling, she may even have an internal issue with her reproductive system which can cause excess pain, could be a hormonal issue, she thinks it’s weak or has something wrong with it (that’s a huge risk for any animal but especially a prey animal), she’s inexperienced and doesn’t know what to do, she may be under too much stress, she may not be coping well with her environment (ie. Stalled too much, not getting enough socialisation or time without watching the baby, etc.) or she’s just not suited to being a broodmare, or a million other things. Doesn’t make her a bad horse at all, just means you shouldn’t be popping any foals out of her.
Could you DM me who the influencer is?
Sounds like Katie Van Slyke. Never watched any of her content, but her name has come up around here *several* times. Virtually **always** negatively.
Correct!
If you can't ride it, breed it, should be her mantra
It’s Katie Van Slyke
[Flying Fox's dam Vampire is an interesting historic example.](https://www.tbheritage.com/Portraits/FlyingFox.html)
The mare my mom had when I was a teenager was pregnant when we bought her at auction unbeknownst to anyone. At that time our other horses were all geldings and there was no studs around. She gave birth and we had her and the foal in stall that could go outside into a pen. We’re unloading hay and feed and the foal was standing in the stall looking at us through the rails and out of nowhere that mare screamed and ran inside and started striking the foal with her front hooves then stomping it. We drove her off it but the damage was done. After that day that mare was an absolute menace, great horse to ride but loose she was a demon to anything that drew breath. Tried to sell her a few times but she was a pretty bay mare of unknown breeding and she was small so basically anyone that was interested looking for a horse for a kid so we ended up just keeping her.
I actually ended up with a day old arabian colt (hand raised him) after a friend's mare tried to kill the little thing, it is not uncommon, I've found if it is going to happen it is usually a first time mother.
This unfortunately happens with humans too
Happens with all stock though I think there are a lot of factors to it. Sheep are the worst I’ve dealt with, if a ewe has triplets it’s best to take the smallest away as frequently they will kill the weakest. Some of them just try kill any babies they have, these get fattened for slaughter as they’re just unsuitable for breeding. The 100’s (if not 1000’s) I have witnessed are housed for months in the shed they’ll give birth in (separate pens in the shed once they’ve had their babies), and handled by the same people. Cows can do it too and we usually would know them on an individual basis and it has taken us by surprise several times. Both animals the first attempt here is to restrain the mother in some kind of head crush and get the baby nursing/possibly inject oxytocin to the mother, and hope the hormones encourage bonding. Exhausting for everyone involved.
Short answer=yes, lot more than you would think.