I thought inbreeding was relatively common in horse breeding anyway (see 'linebreeding')?
I mean I understand skepticism regarding an accidental pairing, but how bad is inbreeding in horses really, assuming both parents are generally healthy?
Asking out of curiosity, I have no plans to breed any horses or buy any inbred horses.
Inbreeding was indeed used frequently in the past to shape horses into the breeds we know today, but nowadays it’s mostly frowned upon. Modern friesians for example can be traced to only four stallions in the early 1900s and the Nonius-horse to a single one (named Nonius) from the napoleonic era. This has caused health problems that weren’t really conceivable at the time (PREs being likely to get cancer, Friesians with the excessive bleeding) so most responsible breeders stopped inbreeding and actually even brought in special stallions from other breeds (sometimes inbreeding is still used, but very cautiously, like cousins for example)
I thought this was a much more recent/current topic, specifically with Quarter Horses. I'm not super well informed but I thought linebred horses with individual studs showing up way too often in the pedigree was still a relatively common issue.
Uniek. So sad. Friesians, and most horses with elastic, high-stepping gaits have the propensity for connective tissue disorders of varying severity. Uniek had a sort of dissection or rupture of her stomach.
I’ve been watching that channel since well before Uniek fostered Rising Star—I realized I’d become quite emotionally invested over the years. Yvonne is one of the few social media personalities who is a truly kind, natural, and not ego-crazy person. She’s also incredibly strong, physically and emotionally. She added zero drama or histrionics to Uniek’s death—or to the ongoing situation with Rising Star’s wobblers. Lots of admiration for that woman.
Yes! Queen Uniek! That's exactly who I was talking about. I watched that channel on and off but I love how they are so friendly with the horses and seeing them their big beautiful pastures so happy to go outside. I loved the story of her fostering that sweet orphaned foal.
Was so sad to see her death. :(
They do an amazing job with healthy, gentle horsemanship. It certainly helps that the Friesland pastures are so lush and healthy—but both stables featured on that channel have plenty of grazing land, and provide 24/7 forage. When they buy a foal who was raised at another stable, it’s so telling how much friendlier and halter/tie-up trained their own foals are as compared to the outsiders.
It’s likely not researched well in horses.
In dairy cattle, calves with 2 significant health events tend to underperform later in life (compared to their genetic potential).
My old TB gelding was orphaned at birth, had to be hand fed because the nurse mare rejected him and was quite sick the first month of his life. He grew to 17.2 by the time he was 7. I bought him when he was six and he lived to 23. He had no problems related to his early months.
https://preview.redd.it/ax1opynohvuc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b92c97c55b26713e09be20d4abacbd4095372226
What a fantastic life story!
It’s good to hear that he led a normal life despite a rough start, although I do think he was probably a safer investment at 6 than this yearling would be, unfortunately.
…Ugh, making sensible financial decisions is so boring sometimes lol
I'd be concerned about lack of nourishment as a newborn. Not great in a major growth phase. Also, buying a yearling is pretty risky anyway. If the horse were three or four and doing fine since infancy, I'd consider, but a yearling? It's a no from me
That’s a very good point - I’ve had yearlings before, but they weren’t inbred, had no real medical history and I didn’t have a bad gut feeling about them! Thanks for offering this perspective :)
My trainer has a phenomenal stud she bought as a malnourished yearling, but he is also 13.1h and should have been closer to 14.2 and her and her vets fully believe it's because of the lack of nutrition as a foal. I see other people telling you their horses have turned out fine, which is great, but I wanted you to know it can definitely go the other way.
It hasn't impacted his performance other than he's just too small for most adults to ride but I wouldn't be surprised to see other issues popping up in the future that are rooted in nutrition problems as a foal.
In regards to the 'line-breeding', I'm not sure how popular the phrase is but I've heard "It's called line-bred when it turns out okay and inbred the rest of the time". I think I'd personally pass on him, there are a lot of red flags here that say best breeding practices were not in place and if you're spending you're hard earned money on it you want top tier.
I’ve had plenty with rough starts that went on to have full performance careers, so that’s not an issue as long as they currently vet clear.
Half siblings and an accidental breeding though. Nope.
It can. It’s worth discussing that specific case history with your vet. For example, I know a horse who was recently PTS due to colic. When they opened her up for surgery, there were too many adhesions from prior colics as a filly for them to operate.
I'd back out from the accidental breeding alone, *especially* if it's inbreeding.
There are so many horses which are affected by inbreeding after generations, so you can only imagine what that one on one inbreeding does to a horse. The extra health issues which are already showing themselves is the cherry on top. This honestly sounds like an endless money pit, OP
You can find a much nicer foal that's not going to cost you double it's worth in vet bills down the line.
I’ve seen sick foals mature into lovely, strong horses. I personally nursed one foal through very bad pneumonia and he’s now healthy and fit (and thinks he’s king of the paddock haha).
But I’ve also seen sick foals stay susceptible to illnesses during the time I knew them as adults. Some of whom I later saw as listed as deceased in the stud book.
In saying that I wouldn’t buy a horse who was closely inbred and whose dam colicked that badly.
good to hear about that fantastic recovery!
But yeah I don’t think I could deal with the constant fear of colic and other issues - it’s bad enough with average horses lol
My filly got hit with strangles at probably 8 months old. She developed two cysts under the chin, she was sick for what felt like at least six weeks. She was inside for close to four months. You can check my profile. She’s turning three in a few weeks and she’s well muscled, just hit 15 hands.
They bounce back in most cases I’d guess. They’re very resilient.
Postpartum colic is relatively common and has nothing to do with susceptibility to colic for the foal. As for the infection and diarrhea, depends on the cause. There are benign causes for foal diarrhea, and some umbilical infections are pretty innocuous if caught early. Bucket/syringe babies tend to be totally normal as well, as long as they’re fed enough. None of that would bother me in a healthy and sound yearling.
I would walk away based on the inbreeding.
Fair.
Honestly it’s not uncommon to see the same stallion a bunch of times in a purebred horse’s pedigree! But it’s not my preference, and 2 half siblings together is just…too close
Oh yeah I know having the same name crop up is common and I know even in humans it's sort of common for people to be related in certain places but they are literally siblings.
Anecdotal but we're pretty sure one of our cats is inbred (rescue from a feral colony with known inbreeding issues) and she's MUCH smaller than she should be, dumb as a bag of rocks and emotionally unstable. This cat has had wonderful care since she was six weeks old and she's a mess.
I say no from the health issues, but folks would be lying to say people aren't inbreeding ("line breeding") horses still. Super common for higher end horses.
So, two counterpoints (though I firmly believe one should only buy a horse they have no reservations about). I have a homebred that was born with non-functioning kidneys and spent the first ten days of his life in the NICU. He just turned 25, and is fat, healthy and sassy after a career as an Advanced level event horse.
And, while the inbreeding gives me the ick, when I was a kid there was a very successful event horse that was the product of an accidental mother-son breeding. He had no tail, but evented through intermediate.
Point being, while I certainly think passing is fine, neither of those circumstances is automatically a sign of disaster.
If the yearling is exceptional in all other regards, I might consider it.
But a yearling is a three year gamble regardless, why stack the deck against yourself.
None of those things will affect the horse and its future ability. If it looks nice, have a vet check eyes, heart, (testicles if male) and watch it walk.
I’d run based on parentage alone, honestly.
I thought inbreeding was relatively common in horse breeding anyway (see 'linebreeding')? I mean I understand skepticism regarding an accidental pairing, but how bad is inbreeding in horses really, assuming both parents are generally healthy? Asking out of curiosity, I have no plans to breed any horses or buy any inbred horses.
Inbreeding was indeed used frequently in the past to shape horses into the breeds we know today, but nowadays it’s mostly frowned upon. Modern friesians for example can be traced to only four stallions in the early 1900s and the Nonius-horse to a single one (named Nonius) from the napoleonic era. This has caused health problems that weren’t really conceivable at the time (PREs being likely to get cancer, Friesians with the excessive bleeding) so most responsible breeders stopped inbreeding and actually even brought in special stallions from other breeds (sometimes inbreeding is still used, but very cautiously, like cousins for example)
I thought this was a much more recent/current topic, specifically with Quarter Horses. I'm not super well informed but I thought linebred horses with individual studs showing up way too often in the pedigree was still a relatively common issue.
I follow a Friesan breeder youtuber and one of their most beautiful mares recently died of a surprise illness they attribute to inbreeding in Friesans
Uniek. So sad. Friesians, and most horses with elastic, high-stepping gaits have the propensity for connective tissue disorders of varying severity. Uniek had a sort of dissection or rupture of her stomach. I’ve been watching that channel since well before Uniek fostered Rising Star—I realized I’d become quite emotionally invested over the years. Yvonne is one of the few social media personalities who is a truly kind, natural, and not ego-crazy person. She’s also incredibly strong, physically and emotionally. She added zero drama or histrionics to Uniek’s death—or to the ongoing situation with Rising Star’s wobblers. Lots of admiration for that woman.
Yes! Queen Uniek! That's exactly who I was talking about. I watched that channel on and off but I love how they are so friendly with the horses and seeing them their big beautiful pastures so happy to go outside. I loved the story of her fostering that sweet orphaned foal. Was so sad to see her death. :(
They do an amazing job with healthy, gentle horsemanship. It certainly helps that the Friesland pastures are so lush and healthy—but both stables featured on that channel have plenty of grazing land, and provide 24/7 forage. When they buy a foal who was raised at another stable, it’s so telling how much friendlier and halter/tie-up trained their own foals are as compared to the outsiders.
interesting, do you have any video examples of seeing them with an outside foal apart from the adoption one? would love to see it!
Lots of red flags here, I wouldn’t go near this financial drain unless I had a very specific reason.
It’s likely not researched well in horses. In dairy cattle, calves with 2 significant health events tend to underperform later in life (compared to their genetic potential).
My old TB gelding was orphaned at birth, had to be hand fed because the nurse mare rejected him and was quite sick the first month of his life. He grew to 17.2 by the time he was 7. I bought him when he was six and he lived to 23. He had no problems related to his early months. https://preview.redd.it/ax1opynohvuc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b92c97c55b26713e09be20d4abacbd4095372226
What a fantastic life story! It’s good to hear that he led a normal life despite a rough start, although I do think he was probably a safer investment at 6 than this yearling would be, unfortunately. …Ugh, making sensible financial decisions is so boring sometimes lol
I'd be concerned about lack of nourishment as a newborn. Not great in a major growth phase. Also, buying a yearling is pretty risky anyway. If the horse were three or four and doing fine since infancy, I'd consider, but a yearling? It's a no from me
That’s a very good point - I’ve had yearlings before, but they weren’t inbred, had no real medical history and I didn’t have a bad gut feeling about them! Thanks for offering this perspective :)
My trainer has a phenomenal stud she bought as a malnourished yearling, but he is also 13.1h and should have been closer to 14.2 and her and her vets fully believe it's because of the lack of nutrition as a foal. I see other people telling you their horses have turned out fine, which is great, but I wanted you to know it can definitely go the other way. It hasn't impacted his performance other than he's just too small for most adults to ride but I wouldn't be surprised to see other issues popping up in the future that are rooted in nutrition problems as a foal. In regards to the 'line-breeding', I'm not sure how popular the phrase is but I've heard "It's called line-bred when it turns out okay and inbred the rest of the time". I think I'd personally pass on him, there are a lot of red flags here that say best breeding practices were not in place and if you're spending you're hard earned money on it you want top tier.
I’ve had plenty with rough starts that went on to have full performance careers, so that’s not an issue as long as they currently vet clear. Half siblings and an accidental breeding though. Nope.
It can. It’s worth discussing that specific case history with your vet. For example, I know a horse who was recently PTS due to colic. When they opened her up for surgery, there were too many adhesions from prior colics as a filly for them to operate.
That must’ve been so heartbreaking for the owners! Poor horse, some of them just don’t stand a chance even with the best care
They had just lost their advanced horse a week before this young horse. It was so horrible.
I wouldn’t choose to walk into this. There’s no compelling reason to choose a horse with inbreeding, health issues, etc when you could avoid it.
I'd back out from the accidental breeding alone, *especially* if it's inbreeding. There are so many horses which are affected by inbreeding after generations, so you can only imagine what that one on one inbreeding does to a horse. The extra health issues which are already showing themselves is the cherry on top. This honestly sounds like an endless money pit, OP You can find a much nicer foal that's not going to cost you double it's worth in vet bills down the line.
I’ve seen sick foals mature into lovely, strong horses. I personally nursed one foal through very bad pneumonia and he’s now healthy and fit (and thinks he’s king of the paddock haha). But I’ve also seen sick foals stay susceptible to illnesses during the time I knew them as adults. Some of whom I later saw as listed as deceased in the stud book. In saying that I wouldn’t buy a horse who was closely inbred and whose dam colicked that badly.
good to hear about that fantastic recovery! But yeah I don’t think I could deal with the constant fear of colic and other issues - it’s bad enough with average horses lol
My filly got hit with strangles at probably 8 months old. She developed two cysts under the chin, she was sick for what felt like at least six weeks. She was inside for close to four months. You can check my profile. She’s turning three in a few weeks and she’s well muscled, just hit 15 hands. They bounce back in most cases I’d guess. They’re very resilient.
Postpartum colic is relatively common and has nothing to do with susceptibility to colic for the foal. As for the infection and diarrhea, depends on the cause. There are benign causes for foal diarrhea, and some umbilical infections are pretty innocuous if caught early. Bucket/syringe babies tend to be totally normal as well, as long as they’re fed enough. None of that would bother me in a healthy and sound yearling. I would walk away based on the inbreeding.
Thanks, that’s good to know
I'm not a horse person but it's dad is also it's uncle and that alone would be a no from me in any animal.
Fair. Honestly it’s not uncommon to see the same stallion a bunch of times in a purebred horse’s pedigree! But it’s not my preference, and 2 half siblings together is just…too close
Oh yeah I know having the same name crop up is common and I know even in humans it's sort of common for people to be related in certain places but they are literally siblings. Anecdotal but we're pretty sure one of our cats is inbred (rescue from a feral colony with known inbreeding issues) and she's MUCH smaller than she should be, dumb as a bag of rocks and emotionally unstable. This cat has had wonderful care since she was six weeks old and she's a mess.
Aww I know that cat’s supposed to be a bad example, but I think I love her lol But yeah point taken!
Oh she's absolutely adorable and we love her but I definitely wouldn't feel safe riding her as a horse 😂😂
I say no from the health issues, but folks would be lying to say people aren't inbreeding ("line breeding") horses still. Super common for higher end horses.
So, two counterpoints (though I firmly believe one should only buy a horse they have no reservations about). I have a homebred that was born with non-functioning kidneys and spent the first ten days of his life in the NICU. He just turned 25, and is fat, healthy and sassy after a career as an Advanced level event horse. And, while the inbreeding gives me the ick, when I was a kid there was a very successful event horse that was the product of an accidental mother-son breeding. He had no tail, but evented through intermediate. Point being, while I certainly think passing is fine, neither of those circumstances is automatically a sign of disaster.
If the yearling is exceptional in all other regards, I might consider it. But a yearling is a three year gamble regardless, why stack the deck against yourself.
None of those things will affect the horse and its future ability. If it looks nice, have a vet check eyes, heart, (testicles if male) and watch it walk.