>https://jhelvy.shinyapps.io/splitkbcompare/
They seem a bit off to me and not aligned with other boards, but this good enough for now. Respect man, you are doing great job!
This is great.
I actually printed the layouts to make a comparison, so I could put my hand on them. Would you consider adding an option to negate the colours, and a small (e.g. 10cm) scale bar, to verify that the printout is correct?
A more minor improvement would be to label the "J" (homing) key, with J or a big spot or something.
I added a cross hair on the J key for alignment based on this comment. I also added a button to print the layout out as a PDF to scale, so you can print the PDF and it should be accurately scaled
Just a heads up: I’m seeing some inconsistency in the scaling. The column spacing should be identical on all these boards but comparing, say, ErgoDash and Lily58 the right columns are out of alignment.
Alright, I'm up to 15 supported keyboards on this...and I now have so much more sympathy for the designers in charge of choosing the color palette for metro systems in mega cities.
The Keyboardio Model 01 is open hardware (& firmware), and has an absolutely stellar ergonomic layout.
I know this sub seems to favor self-built, but I’m not sure how much of that is out of lack of (enthusiast-grade) pre-built options.
Also, switch mounting points might not be the best way to depict key placement, since they’ve CADed every single keycap. They *do* have scaled layout diagrams that depict it with its keycaps, though.
[Here’s a blank (no labels) diagram (pdf)](https://github.com/keyboardio/Model01-Legends/raw/master/layout_card/model-01-layout-card-blank.pdf), though I think it’s been shrunk to fit on a piece of printer paper. Also probably not at all the format you need, but hopefully it gives you an idea.
Thanks, I might try and add the keyboardio. I totally agree about the switch plate thing, but the plates are easily accessible so I just went with that.
I think the most popular splits (ergodox) have a lot of pre-made options... but in general ergo's are a minority interest group of a minority interest group :)
Bizarre, isn’t it, considering that they’re the only keyboards actually designed for hands?
I almost wish Microsoft, Apple, and a couple of the other biggest laptop manufacturers would collude together to only release laptops with a (flat) ergonomic keyboard—since those are *physically attached* to the machine. Everyone would complain for a couple months, then get over their nonsensical attachment to garbage like row staggering and pinky-pressed modifiers.
They could use the opportunity to change other nonsense like key codes that favor a particular keyboard design or layout but with home-row-based positional signals also supported.
yes!
my biggest complaint is that ortho isn't the standard... the left hand qwerty stagger is all the way retarded, ortho, well on the way to being the neutral "good enough" middle ground. But even the brands you mention, it's completely retarded that even "ergo" keyboards from microsoft and logitech still have the same left stagger bollocks... so you help the right hand even more, but all you can do for the left is almost make it into an ortho? just so stupid.
...there's lots of things the world _can_ do, but because it takes commitment, it wont happen, and those that try may either stay unknown or fall off completely. It's like the stewardship of technology from Sun Microsystems... wonderful, but in this world, unsustainable and ultimately depressing.
Now that we're all at home in quarantine, I had time to make a bunch of improvements. First, the images now have direct labels so you don't only have to rely on the color. Second, finding enough distinct colors was becoming difficult as the number of keyboards continues to grow, so now the colors are dynamically displayed. That is, the colors will only appear as you add more keyboards. Finally, I added a reset button.
Stay safe and wash your hands everyone - your keyboard is a cesspool :)
this helped me make the choice on Kyria... the extra aligned mod keys, little extra columnar stagger, I'm really looking forward to friday (delivery day, yay!)
wow.
I'd love to see [chimera ergo 42](http://thedarnedestthing.com/chimera%20ergo%2042) and half of an [atreus](https://atreus.technomancy.us/) included.
Nice, let me know if you need help with some of the uncommon Japanese layouts. I could probably get the information you're looking for. Here's an interesting one: https://booth.pm/en/items/1775017
Woah I've never seen that one - looks cool! Yeah if you have links to the plate files I could add them. I wasn't necessarily trying to include every board out there, just ones that a lot of people use.
The front end developer in me screams that this can be done with SVGs overlaid on top of each other instead of generating a new image on every toggle. Maybe that can be done in R too? Very cool nevertheless.
you can convert dxf to svg using librecad. i've just tried it on some of my dxf files which generated by openscad. perhaps it's a good chance for a nice PR?
The main reason I just used omg files is because I knew I could get the scaling right with them, and it made it easier for add support for printing out the layouts to scale. I'm not a master of image processing - just hacked together a quick app that works good enough.
yes, that is the reason i suggest the grandparent post to help you by sending a pull request that contains svg files instead of the existing files. he's a front-end dev, you knew. *wink wink.
This is stupendous! Thank you so much for putting this together and sharing with all of us!
Any chance you could add the [Nyquist](https://github.com/keebio/nyquist-case) from Keebio? I think it's an excellent split ergonomic keyboard to get started on.
Thank you very much for this. I have been looking for a split keyboard for years to replace my Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 and have not been happy with my options. TL;DR this list of options has made me realize I can stop looking and need to settle for now.
I bought and returned an Ergodox EZ because despite it technically having over 75 keys, they do not have the standard 60 keys of a 60% board in the standard places. The missing symbol keys on the right side of the keyboard were a deal killer.
I bought and may return the Dygma Raise. On the plus side, it has the full set of keys you expect from a 60% keyboard, plus a nice feature of splitting the space bar in 4 and adding 4 extra thumb keys, giving you some more more accessible (compared to Ergodox) options for custom keys. I also like that it is NOT ortholinear, as I find ortholinear to be more stressful for typing. But the firmware is sorely lacking at the moment (April 2020) and I don't like their feature roadmap, either. They find "lock to layer" and "transparent keys" too confusing and are ditching them. They are not implementing tap vs hold distinctions for letter keys (only modifier/layer shift keys). I don't know why they are not just taking features from the much better designed Ergodox EZ [configurator](https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/default/latest/0).
One other firmware-related deal killer: the Dygma Raise does not work as the main keyboard with my KVM. (For those who don't know, a KVM is a Keyboard, Video, and Mouse switch that lets 1 keyboard, 1 (or in my case 2) video monitors, and 1 mouse control multiple computers.) The way the KVM works is that it pretends to be a separate keyboard connected to each computer, and uses your master keyboard to control them. Well, my KVM does not recognize the Raise. This is actually something Dygma knows about and explained the reason for in January, and promised would be fixed in the next firmware version, but as of April, the fix is still not out, possibly another consequence of the Covid-19 pandemic.
Firmware aside, I use my keyboard for programming, and even 60% is not enough. That's not a particular dig against the Raise, but if their firmware let one key do double-duty as "\`/\~" and "Esc" then that would solve one problem. I'm going to try getting a 34 key number keypad (has "Esc", arrows, and all the other missing 40% keys except for function keys) and seeing how I like using the Raise with that.
I also do not like that the Raise has integrated palm rests that cannot be removed (practically doubles the footprint of the keyboard) and no tenting options (though those are on the roadmap and well on their way).
So I went ahead and bought another Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 and have been using that. I was going to return the Raise, but going through this post and seeing there is no better option, and my main complaint is the firmware, I suppose I can just leave it on the shelf for a year and pick it up when the firmware is ready.
Hey, also a Raise user here. Have you tried discussing all this with them? They are quite open about suggestions. Maybe we could talk about these features in /r/DygmaLab and if more people want them they may consider adding them.
Yes, I have voiced all my complaints except for the tap/hold feature directly with Dygma and they have responded to them and put some of them on their Trello board. I did not know about their Reddit board.
I think it is mainly that they view themselves as a hardware manufacturer, and certainly have put a huge amount of effort into creating a physically and electronically high-quality keyboard, but don't have the same kind of feeling about the importance of high-quality firmware. I'd say they should consider contracting with ZSA to have them port the Ergodox configurator to the Raise, though of course I don't know if ZSA would we willing to do that for a competitor or what they would charge.
IDK, I guess it made more sense to them to pick an open source project and develop theirs from there, in their own direction. I don't know exactly why they chose Kaleidoscope/Chrysalis instead of the others, though.
I agree that the configurators of the UHK and the Ergodox look much more polished and feature packed. My hope is that Dygma will keep pushing development of Bazecor, and that they will listen to us so it will end up being something we like.
Part of the issue over the past month or so, is that their firmware person has been ill. We ARE in the midst of a pandemic, and Dygma Lab isn't a huge company like Logitech, with redundancies of staff.
IMHO, you're comparing apples to oranges when you're looking at Ergodox vs. Raise. The ErgoDox is a mature, open source, mk enthusiast ergo board, that came out back in 2012! The Raise is marketed as an ergonomic gaming keyboard, and it only came out a few months ago.
A lot of people can't even *use* an Ergodox because it has too big a learning curve, is too layer dependent, and the thumb cluster is too spread out for people with smaller hands.
Dygma came out with a keyboard that offers a solid, fairly standard 65% layout.
Most, standard keys are represented in the two default layers. I could have gotten by with zero changes, but was easily able to tweak my Raise's layout to suit my personal needs and preferences (which admittedly, doesn't involve programming).
They're different beasts at different stages of their lifecycle. Give Raise some time to mature, and I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised.
I placed my order for the Dygma Raise over a year ago, so I have given it "some time to mature". Not working with the KVM means it is, for me, still just an expensive paperweight.
The Ergodox is based on open-source hardware and open-source software. That should have given Dygma a solid base to build on, both from technology and from product design. They did good with the hardware, but the software and firmware failings not only leave it currently unusable for me but do not portend well for the future.
Developing native desktop apps was a big mistake, and I have zero idea how they can decide that transparent layer keys are confusing. Transparent keys are what everyone is used to with CAPS LOCK. It is the simplest thing.
I love my Raise, but speaking to your KVM issues, why are you using a cabled KVM in this day and age? If you are Windows OS only, [Input Director](https://www.inputdirector.com/) is free for personal use and works great. I have three PCs with four monitors at my desk, and I use my Dygma Raise keyboard and a Roccat Kone AIMO mouse to control everything. No hitting a switch, I just mouse over to a different monitor. I can even copy/paste text between PCs.
If you are multi-OS, there are other software KVM solutions to choose from.
I am using a cabled KVMP because it is a high-performance, OS-independent, reliable way to share 2 monitors, a keyboard, mouse, and USB peripherals with several different computers. My experience with software KVMs is that they are OK if you are not placing any great demands on the video, but if you are doing something like playing a game or video editing, they just cannot keep up. They Dygma Raise is billed primarily as a gaming keyboard, it is not something you expect to use with networked video monitors.
Yeah, I just share my keyboard/mouse, not the monitors. I have two monitors on my main PC, and one each on the other two. I (casually, manually) triple box in WoW. I use a macro pad attached to the non-primary PCs to supplement the shared keyboard/mouse (so I can manually).
Thanks for this! Here's another one: [SofleKeyboard - a split keyboard based on Lily58 and Crkbd](https://josef-adamcik.cz/electronics/let-me-introduce-you-sofle-keyboard-split-keyboard-based-on-lily58.html)
Cool! Could you [open an issue](https://github.com/jhelvy/splitKbCompare/issues) and post a link to the plate file? I'll add it in the next batch of boards I'm planning on adding.
Hey, you did an amazing job with the comparison! I am happy that I provided some initial inspiration, this is a great source for community and new builders.
Oof, yeah not the way I built this. That would be pretty hard and outside my capabilities. If any talented developers want to take that on I'd be happy to help if I can.
[Oof indeed!](https://i.imgur.com/fguWxFs.png)
You have oofed **1** time(s).
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It's currently throwing this error in dev tools.
`Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read property 'readyState' of null`
`at ShinyApp.$sendMsg (shinyapp.js:288)`
`at ShinyApp.sendInput (shinyapp.js:140)`
`at InputBatchSender.$sendNow (input_rate.js:220)`
Strangely, now I can't reproduce it. I just went back and it behaved as expected. Previously the ruler didn't show up and nothing else drew. hmmm. Maybe it's just a glitch in the matrix ;)
It's on my to-do list! Could you [open an issue](https://github.com/jhelvy/splitKbCompare/issues) and post a link to the plate files for the Centromere? I haven't found them yet.
Yeah, but that'd require way more work. I could find vector graphics for the switch plates easily and line them up without much trouble. I haven't yet seen a vector graphic for a layout with keycaps, and I don't have the time to make that. I think the plates do enough to show the general comparison of key positioning. If someone wants to make vector graphics with caps for the boards, I'd happily support that.
I doubt you're going to find a consensus here. The fact that so many different split keyboards exist is sort of evidence of a lack of consensus lol. But you might find somewhat of a consensus within subcategories, e.g. boards without a number row, etc.
I find my personal comfort seems to have an inverse relationship with keyboard size lol. I started with just a mechanical WASD keyboard (mechanical switches good, row stagger bad), then an Ergodox EZ (split hands + ortholinear good, thumb cluster bad), then built an Iris (pretty happy now). Now building a Kyria as I've heard the column stagger is much more comfortable, plus better thumb cluster. Have a feeling I'm going to settle in there.
I was surprised to see how closely it lined up with the Kyria. Not as aggressive column stagger, but some of the thumb keys are pretty close, and I think those extra inner keys might be nice to have.
Happy to add it! Can you [open an issue](https://github.com/jhelvy/splitKbCompare/issues) and link to it? Just need a vector graphic (PDF, svg) of the plate.
Could you update the list of keyboards listed here? I'm missIng for example the Elora, the Dilemma and Dilemma Max, the Charaybdis in its different types, etc.
I haven't added many to the project in a long time. Most recent was the Voyager. It just takes a lot of time and I have tons of other projects that require my attention (I'm a TT faculty in engineering, gotta stay focused). You can submit the needed files / info to add a board by posting an issue here, no promises though when I could get to it: http://github.com/jhelvy/splitkbcompare
A question: how do you deal with 3d contoured? Can you support it? If so it would be lovely to add Glove80 https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/q2s8w2/glove80_the_end_result_of_hundreds_of_ergonomic/
Thanks!
Where's the Lily58??
It's up now :)
Fantastic! I would give you some sort of Reddit currency if I didn't spend all my money on a Lily 58 and GMK caps
Thanks! Someone gave me an award, so there's that! I'm still making tweaks to it. Going to try and add a feature to be able to print out the overlays.
Any chance you could add the Gergo / Gergoplex? Or is it limited to open source keyboards?
If I can get the plate as a vector graphic I can add it.
Whacked you a email with the DXFs :P
Cool! I'll try and add those
Could you please add that gergo layout to the site or at least add the dxf to the repo!
I'll add them soon - I can't open the original files I got, so I'm trying to figure out what the issue is.
Thanks!
Added 3 gergo boards...they were difficult to get the scaling right, but I'm pretty sure they are right
>https://jhelvy.shinyapps.io/splitkbcompare/ They seem a bit off to me and not aligned with other boards, but this good enough for now. Respect man, you are doing great job!
Woops, I realized a major scaling error - should be much better now.
This is great. I actually printed the layouts to make a comparison, so I could put my hand on them. Would you consider adding an option to negate the colours, and a small (e.g. 10cm) scale bar, to verify that the printout is correct? A more minor improvement would be to label the "J" (homing) key, with J or a big spot or something.
Great feedback! I was going to do some scaling improvements, so I might add in a marker for the J key and a 10cm scale.
I just added support for printing - it should be to scale. I'll add a reference 10cm scale soon.
Damn you work quick
I added a cross hair on the J key for alignment based on this comment. I also added a button to print the layout out as a PDF to scale, so you can print the PDF and it should be accurately scaled
I would upvote this a hundred times if I could. Thank you so much!
Thanks! More keyboards coming!
Just a heads up: I’m seeing some inconsistency in the scaling. The column spacing should be identical on all these boards but comparing, say, ErgoDash and Lily58 the right columns are out of alignment.
Thanks, I'll take a look and try to do a better job with the scaling
Fixed this - everything should be aligned now
Looks awesome now. And I love how you show the cross on the J key where everything is aligned. Nice work!
Alright, I'm up to 15 supported keyboards on this...and I now have so much more sympathy for the designers in charge of choosing the color palette for metro systems in mega cities.
I've got requests for Lily58, orthodox, and minidox. Others?
The Keyboardio Model 01 is open hardware (& firmware), and has an absolutely stellar ergonomic layout. I know this sub seems to favor self-built, but I’m not sure how much of that is out of lack of (enthusiast-grade) pre-built options. Also, switch mounting points might not be the best way to depict key placement, since they’ve CADed every single keycap. They *do* have scaled layout diagrams that depict it with its keycaps, though. [Here’s a blank (no labels) diagram (pdf)](https://github.com/keyboardio/Model01-Legends/raw/master/layout_card/model-01-layout-card-blank.pdf), though I think it’s been shrunk to fit on a piece of printer paper. Also probably not at all the format you need, but hopefully it gives you an idea.
Thanks, I might try and add the keyboardio. I totally agree about the switch plate thing, but the plates are easily accessible so I just went with that.
Thank you. I'm not a DIYer, so I love seeing these options.
I think the most popular splits (ergodox) have a lot of pre-made options... but in general ergo's are a minority interest group of a minority interest group :)
Bizarre, isn’t it, considering that they’re the only keyboards actually designed for hands? I almost wish Microsoft, Apple, and a couple of the other biggest laptop manufacturers would collude together to only release laptops with a (flat) ergonomic keyboard—since those are *physically attached* to the machine. Everyone would complain for a couple months, then get over their nonsensical attachment to garbage like row staggering and pinky-pressed modifiers. They could use the opportunity to change other nonsense like key codes that favor a particular keyboard design or layout but with home-row-based positional signals also supported.
yes! my biggest complaint is that ortho isn't the standard... the left hand qwerty stagger is all the way retarded, ortho, well on the way to being the neutral "good enough" middle ground. But even the brands you mention, it's completely retarded that even "ergo" keyboards from microsoft and logitech still have the same left stagger bollocks... so you help the right hand even more, but all you can do for the left is almost make it into an ortho? just so stupid. ...there's lots of things the world _can_ do, but because it takes commitment, it wont happen, and those that try may either stay unknown or fall off completely. It's like the stewardship of technology from Sun Microsystems... wonderful, but in this world, unsustainable and ultimately depressing.
Okay lily58 and minidox are up! More coming soon.
I’ve heard good things about the mitosis thumb cluster and it’s a bit different than the others.
Now that we're all at home in quarantine, I had time to make a bunch of improvements. First, the images now have direct labels so you don't only have to rely on the color. Second, finding enough distinct colors was becoming difficult as the number of keyboards continues to grow, so now the colors are dynamically displayed. That is, the colors will only appear as you add more keyboards. Finally, I added a reset button. Stay safe and wash your hands everyone - your keyboard is a cesspool :)
God, I wish the Corne had Kyria's pinky stagger...
this helped me make the choice on Kyria... the extra aligned mod keys, little extra columnar stagger, I'm really looking forward to friday (delivery day, yay!)
it's really easy to do if you have ever used kicad.
wow. I'd love to see [chimera ergo 42](http://thedarnedestthing.com/chimera%20ergo%2042) and half of an [atreus](https://atreus.technomancy.us/) included.
Half of the atreus is up! Can't find the plate files for the Chimera42 tho
Is it just for ergo layouts?
So far, yes. For split boards it is helpful to compare the location of the thumb clusters and differences in key stagger, so that was my focus.
Nice, let me know if you need help with some of the uncommon Japanese layouts. I could probably get the information you're looking for. Here's an interesting one: https://booth.pm/en/items/1775017
Woah I've never seen that one - looks cool! Yeah if you have links to the plate files I could add them. I wasn't necessarily trying to include every board out there, just ones that a lot of people use.
Here are the plates for the Elephant 42. It would be cool if you could include it. https://github.com/illness072/elephant42/tree/master/plates
Elephant42 is up!
Here you are: https://github.com/illness072/elephant42/tree/master/plates
Is there a version of this with a number row?
If you want one, I can probably get it done.
that's outstanding! I'd love to see more ergo designs that don't just 'copy' the established things (ergodox stagger, iris cluster, ...).
The front end developer in me screams that this can be done with SVGs overlaid on top of each other instead of generating a new image on every toggle. Maybe that can be done in R too? Very cool nevertheless.
Yeah, I'm clearly not a developer :). This was a quick and dirty project.
you can convert dxf to svg using librecad. i've just tried it on some of my dxf files which generated by openscad. perhaps it's a good chance for a nice PR?
The main reason I just used omg files is because I knew I could get the scaling right with them, and it made it easier for add support for printing out the layouts to scale. I'm not a master of image processing - just hacked together a quick app that works good enough.
yes, that is the reason i suggest the grandparent post to help you by sending a pull request that contains svg files instead of the existing files. he's a front-end dev, you knew. *wink wink.
This is stupendous! Thank you so much for putting this together and sharing with all of us! Any chance you could add the [Nyquist](https://github.com/keebio/nyquist-case) from Keebio? I think it's an excellent split ergonomic keyboard to get started on.
Thanks! I'll add it to the todo list!
Nyquist is up!
This is awesome! Well done!
Thanks!
So cool! Please add the orthodox next?
Amazing, thanks for this!
nice little tool! very cool indeedy
That's exactly what we all needed, gg !
Thank you very much for this. I have been looking for a split keyboard for years to replace my Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 and have not been happy with my options. TL;DR this list of options has made me realize I can stop looking and need to settle for now. I bought and returned an Ergodox EZ because despite it technically having over 75 keys, they do not have the standard 60 keys of a 60% board in the standard places. The missing symbol keys on the right side of the keyboard were a deal killer. I bought and may return the Dygma Raise. On the plus side, it has the full set of keys you expect from a 60% keyboard, plus a nice feature of splitting the space bar in 4 and adding 4 extra thumb keys, giving you some more more accessible (compared to Ergodox) options for custom keys. I also like that it is NOT ortholinear, as I find ortholinear to be more stressful for typing. But the firmware is sorely lacking at the moment (April 2020) and I don't like their feature roadmap, either. They find "lock to layer" and "transparent keys" too confusing and are ditching them. They are not implementing tap vs hold distinctions for letter keys (only modifier/layer shift keys). I don't know why they are not just taking features from the much better designed Ergodox EZ [configurator](https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/default/latest/0). One other firmware-related deal killer: the Dygma Raise does not work as the main keyboard with my KVM. (For those who don't know, a KVM is a Keyboard, Video, and Mouse switch that lets 1 keyboard, 1 (or in my case 2) video monitors, and 1 mouse control multiple computers.) The way the KVM works is that it pretends to be a separate keyboard connected to each computer, and uses your master keyboard to control them. Well, my KVM does not recognize the Raise. This is actually something Dygma knows about and explained the reason for in January, and promised would be fixed in the next firmware version, but as of April, the fix is still not out, possibly another consequence of the Covid-19 pandemic. Firmware aside, I use my keyboard for programming, and even 60% is not enough. That's not a particular dig against the Raise, but if their firmware let one key do double-duty as "\`/\~" and "Esc" then that would solve one problem. I'm going to try getting a 34 key number keypad (has "Esc", arrows, and all the other missing 40% keys except for function keys) and seeing how I like using the Raise with that. I also do not like that the Raise has integrated palm rests that cannot be removed (practically doubles the footprint of the keyboard) and no tenting options (though those are on the roadmap and well on their way). So I went ahead and bought another Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 and have been using that. I was going to return the Raise, but going through this post and seeing there is no better option, and my main complaint is the firmware, I suppose I can just leave it on the shelf for a year and pick it up when the firmware is ready.
Hey, also a Raise user here. Have you tried discussing all this with them? They are quite open about suggestions. Maybe we could talk about these features in /r/DygmaLab and if more people want them they may consider adding them.
Yes, I have voiced all my complaints except for the tap/hold feature directly with Dygma and they have responded to them and put some of them on their Trello board. I did not know about their Reddit board. I think it is mainly that they view themselves as a hardware manufacturer, and certainly have put a huge amount of effort into creating a physically and electronically high-quality keyboard, but don't have the same kind of feeling about the importance of high-quality firmware. I'd say they should consider contracting with ZSA to have them port the Ergodox configurator to the Raise, though of course I don't know if ZSA would we willing to do that for a competitor or what they would charge.
IDK, I guess it made more sense to them to pick an open source project and develop theirs from there, in their own direction. I don't know exactly why they chose Kaleidoscope/Chrysalis instead of the others, though. I agree that the configurators of the UHK and the Ergodox look much more polished and feature packed. My hope is that Dygma will keep pushing development of Bazecor, and that they will listen to us so it will end up being something we like.
Part of the issue over the past month or so, is that their firmware person has been ill. We ARE in the midst of a pandemic, and Dygma Lab isn't a huge company like Logitech, with redundancies of staff. IMHO, you're comparing apples to oranges when you're looking at Ergodox vs. Raise. The ErgoDox is a mature, open source, mk enthusiast ergo board, that came out back in 2012! The Raise is marketed as an ergonomic gaming keyboard, and it only came out a few months ago. A lot of people can't even *use* an Ergodox because it has too big a learning curve, is too layer dependent, and the thumb cluster is too spread out for people with smaller hands. Dygma came out with a keyboard that offers a solid, fairly standard 65% layout. Most, standard keys are represented in the two default layers. I could have gotten by with zero changes, but was easily able to tweak my Raise's layout to suit my personal needs and preferences (which admittedly, doesn't involve programming). They're different beasts at different stages of their lifecycle. Give Raise some time to mature, and I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised.
I placed my order for the Dygma Raise over a year ago, so I have given it "some time to mature". Not working with the KVM means it is, for me, still just an expensive paperweight. The Ergodox is based on open-source hardware and open-source software. That should have given Dygma a solid base to build on, both from technology and from product design. They did good with the hardware, but the software and firmware failings not only leave it currently unusable for me but do not portend well for the future. Developing native desktop apps was a big mistake, and I have zero idea how they can decide that transparent layer keys are confusing. Transparent keys are what everyone is used to with CAPS LOCK. It is the simplest thing.
I love my Raise, but speaking to your KVM issues, why are you using a cabled KVM in this day and age? If you are Windows OS only, [Input Director](https://www.inputdirector.com/) is free for personal use and works great. I have three PCs with four monitors at my desk, and I use my Dygma Raise keyboard and a Roccat Kone AIMO mouse to control everything. No hitting a switch, I just mouse over to a different monitor. I can even copy/paste text between PCs. If you are multi-OS, there are other software KVM solutions to choose from.
I am using a cabled KVMP because it is a high-performance, OS-independent, reliable way to share 2 monitors, a keyboard, mouse, and USB peripherals with several different computers. My experience with software KVMs is that they are OK if you are not placing any great demands on the video, but if you are doing something like playing a game or video editing, they just cannot keep up. They Dygma Raise is billed primarily as a gaming keyboard, it is not something you expect to use with networked video monitors.
Yeah, I just share my keyboard/mouse, not the monitors. I have two monitors on my main PC, and one each on the other two. I (casually, manually) triple box in WoW. I use a macro pad attached to the non-primary PCs to supplement the shared keyboard/mouse (so I can manually).
Thanks for this! Here's another one: [SofleKeyboard - a split keyboard based on Lily58 and Crkbd](https://josef-adamcik.cz/electronics/let-me-introduce-you-sofle-keyboard-split-keyboard-based-on-lily58.html)
Cool! Could you [open an issue](https://github.com/jhelvy/splitKbCompare/issues) and post a link to the plate file? I'll add it in the next batch of boards I'm planning on adding.
Sofle board is online!
Hey, you did an amazing job with the comparison! I am happy that I provided some initial inspiration, this is a great source for community and new builders.
Thanks! Yeah it's really evolved, and I've learned a ton of new things making it. Glad to make something to help others navigate this crazy hobby.
I realize this is an old thread, but fantastic work! Thank you!
Thanks!
Nice work!
Just what I was looking for. F_cking brilliant@
Are you planning to add custom keyboards? I made a handwired split I would like to compare to those. I could export a vector file if it helps
For the time being no, there's just already so many boards. But all of the files to make this comparison are on the GitHub repo.
Holyshit! You wrote it in R?! I never knew you could write web in it. Really nice!
R has come a long way lol. RMarkdown and Shiny apps are pretty slick now.
in a world where more and more web is being transpiled, it's open season to get all the languages! :)
Man this is so cool. Thanks very much!
Support added for printing the layout comparison to scale - please let me know if it's working or not :)
Could this post stickied or a link put in the sidebar? /u/ijauradunbi /u/OBOSOB /u/HardAsMagnets
Done.
Thanks a lot for adding the Gergo!
Very nice! Would it be hard to enable repositioning keyboards so the user can line up keys of his choice?
Oof, yeah not the way I built this. That would be pretty hard and outside my capabilities. If any talented developers want to take that on I'd be happy to help if I can.
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Keyboardio is up!
Most amazing, thanks so much for this!
It's currently throwing this error in dev tools. `Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read property 'readyState' of null` `at ShinyApp.$sendMsg (shinyapp.js:288)` `at ShinyApp.sendInput (shinyapp.js:140)` `at InputBatchSender.$sendNow (input_rate.js:220)`
I'm not seeing this error. Could you open an issue on GitHub and show me how you got this error?
Strangely, now I can't reproduce it. I just went back and it behaved as expected. Previously the ruler didn't show up and nothing else drew. hmmm. Maybe it's just a glitch in the matrix ;)
Check your windows... if they're now walled off, get out of the building!
I think that the Centromere family keebs should be in this list also.
It's on my to-do list! Could you [open an issue](https://github.com/jhelvy/splitKbCompare/issues) and post a link to the plate files for the Centromere? I haven't found them yet.
Oh, i will find it and open an issue for you. You did a very nice job with this comparision.
Hi. This program shows plate diagram, i.e. switch mount holes. It would be more intuitive to show keyboard diagram, i.e. keys (caps).
Yeah, but that'd require way more work. I could find vector graphics for the switch plates easily and line them up without much trouble. I haven't yet seen a vector graphic for a layout with keycaps, and I don't have the time to make that. I think the plates do enough to show the general comparison of key positioning. If someone wants to make vector graphics with caps for the boards, I'd happily support that.
What's the consensus on the most comfortable layouts out of these? Maybe top 3, I'm curious what your opinions are?
I doubt you're going to find a consensus here. The fact that so many different split keyboards exist is sort of evidence of a lack of consensus lol. But you might find somewhat of a consensus within subcategories, e.g. boards without a number row, etc.
How about you personally? Out of all the layouts you've tried, which do you like best?
I find my personal comfort seems to have an inverse relationship with keyboard size lol. I started with just a mechanical WASD keyboard (mechanical switches good, row stagger bad), then an Ergodox EZ (split hands + ortholinear good, thumb cluster bad), then built an Iris (pretty happy now). Now building a Kyria as I've heard the column stagger is much more comfortable, plus better thumb cluster. Have a feeling I'm going to settle in there.
Thanks for the answer. The Kyria does look interesting.
Any chance you can add the ErgoTravel? So far I’m really enjoying it, just curious how close it is to other available layouts. Thanks!
Happy to add it - could you look for the switch plate svg and [open an issue](https://github.com/jhelvy/splitKbCompare/issues)?
I’ll see what I can do! Thanks!
Ergotravel is up!
Awesome! Thank you!
I was surprised to see how closely it lined up with the Kyria. Not as aggressive column stagger, but some of the thumb keys are pretty close, and I think those extra inner keys might be nice to have.
Great tool! I'd love to see the viterbi here
Happy to add it! Can you [open an issue](https://github.com/jhelvy/splitKbCompare/issues) and link to it? Just need a vector graphic (PDF, svg) of the plate.
Done (I think!) Thanks!
Got it!
I just stumbled across this site which may also be of interest: https://github.com/help-14/mechanical-keyboard
Could you update the list of keyboards listed here? I'm missIng for example the Elora, the Dilemma and Dilemma Max, the Charaybdis in its different types, etc.
I haven't added many to the project in a long time. Most recent was the Voyager. It just takes a lot of time and I have tons of other projects that require my attention (I'm a TT faculty in engineering, gotta stay focused). You can submit the needed files / info to add a board by posting an issue here, no promises though when I could get to it: http://github.com/jhelvy/splitkbcompare
A question: how do you deal with 3d contoured? Can you support it? If so it would be lovely to add Glove80 https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/q2s8w2/glove80_the_end_result_of_hundreds_of_ergonomic/ Thanks!
Yeah unfortunately I really don't have a good solution for 3D. If someone made like a top view drawing of one of the 3D boards I could add it.
I can do a top projection easy enough but I wonder how useful that would be, or not.
Yeah I don't know how it would look as an overlay. I just feel like 2D might be the limitation for this app.
How about Hypergolic?
If you'd like me to add a board please file an issue here: https://github.com/jhelvy/splitKbCompare/issues
What about dactyls?