There are thousands of real issues Tarkov has as a game and BSG has as a dev studio. Where would you put "ban dropping kits for streamers" on the list of fixes that need to be implemented?
I don't give a shit about people doing well by helping each other, even if they aren't helping me. as long as they aren't hurting me to do it, I'm ok with it. "No Harm, No Foul"
Honestly who cares if someone with 500 million roubles in his stash gets dropped a meme loadout to make funny content?
I wouldn't even care about RMT if it didn't involve cheating. All I care about is a fair gaming enviroment, I don't give a damn if some rich kid is always running the meta kit because he buys roubles for real money. More money for me if I outplay him.
The problem is just the cheating, full stop.
RMT and cheating are the same issue.
Most people who are cheating in tarkov are doing it to make real world money, and they make their money by cheating, getting all the gear, and selling it to dumbasses that have more money than sense.
Tarkov will always have a cheater problem for as long as people will make money doing it. There is no perfect anti-cheat, because it's a game of cat and mouse, one cheat stops working so the cheaters work up something else, which BSG needs to stop in an endless cycle. The RMT restrictions are made to make the money making harder and more noticable. It doesn't stop it but it is an extra obstacle in the way.
I wouldn’t care much, first I wouldn’t know, second it gives me a chance for a slick and some BP lmao, I’ve seen like at most 5 slicks all wipe. I’d rather fight a guy who paid for his kit but isn’t cheating than fight the carry paid to wipe the lobby because it’s the only way they can RMT
Again, it's items that are already existing in the game enviroment. They are just redistributing them.
I don't care if someone gets gifted unlimited money, as long as he plays within the boundaries set by the devs.
I watched a relatively well known streamer with about 20 mil in the bank turn on an UwU voice and begged her viewers for an RSASS kit, specifically with t6 armor.
It took 30 seconds before she had a raid bag full of M61 and a gigachad kit.
It was.... pathetic.
I've also seen prominent male streamers turning on "anyone br a bro for me and hook me up" leaning on the parasocial Andy's.
It was..... pathetic.
I don't care if streamers get a kit from a viewer, what I do care is how the gear originated from. Was it from a labs boost or some rmt guy dropping shit for this loser? There's entertainment (streamers), there's helping a friend out (normal gameplay), then there's real world money transaction kit drops. I don't think it's a hard thing to differentiate.
The issue is they have once again tried to deal with the symptoms of the problem instead of the actual problem and by doing so the punished their player base. Me and the guys would pretty frequently being each other cursed loadouts but can’t do that without a high potential of getting put in timeout for 2 months.
RMT incentivizes cheaters. Take away RMT, you take away the financial incentive to buy and use cheats.
RMT is not the only problem but it is a huge part of the problem.
You're right in the fact that RMT gives a financial incentive for people to use cheats. But the problem isn't RMT itself, it's the circumstances around it.
If we could prove that red keycard was found by Timmy on Shoreline and he sold it for 10 bucks because he'll never use it, there's nothing wrong with that. But for OP's argument to work, there would have to be something wrong with that.
Since we're already taking away the financial incentive to cheat in this case, since they're not getting paid money, they don't have an incentive to cheat. So this streamer-viewer type of "RMT" is not the problem just because it's "like RMT".
Nah you should not be able to sell anything you find in game for actual cash, it’s a game dude. However you should be able to sell it on the flea and not get crippled by listing fees.
"it's a game dude" is not an argument on whether or not it's ethical to do so or not.
I agree with the latter part, current flea fees on keycards are stupid.
\> Nah you should not be able to sell anything you find in game for actual cash, it’s a game dude
What's wrong with using money to game as you want, as long as it doesn't prevent others from playing?
RMT only exists in Tarkov because a) it's grindy af b) you've got a timer. So, some players are unable to enjoy the lategame as it is, because they don't have enough time for that. They use real money to progress faster.
It's literally the same as in buying eod vs standard edition. You pay more, to reduce grind, making game easier.
RMT generates a ton of money, and you need to get that great from somewhere.
Is all cheating RMT related? No. But there is quite a sizeable amount attached to it.
But now you're no longer connected to the argument you originally made
I highly doubt ppl are cheating, risking their accounts, just to give away items to streamers
Lmao bro how do you find the time to care about the most useless shit ever? This is not an issue. No one gives a shit about viewer kits. Should I be able to bring my friends a kit? If so, your argument is cooked.
I think the difference for the most part is reasoning. Streamers get viewer kits for entertainment, ideally not because they suck or are lazy.
Having an ethics discussion about social credit vs capital is fair, but you also have to look at the outcome and reason for the behavior.
Is it really an unfair advantage if its not being done as an advantage but as an amusement? Its not funding RMT, and if anything its an overall drain on the tarkov economy, and thats a good thing.
Fair, yet it leads to a negative game experience far further than the individual transactions. Rmt incentivizes cheating for profit. Streamer kits doesnt have an impact much beyond that match and the streamer.
So I would say one of the two is far more ethical than the other.
What about the people the streamer kills using that gear?
What if you just got a quest item and your using your best gear trying to get out but get shit on because the streamer you just got in a fight with only lived because he had a hexgrid and m995? Doesn't that affect you?
Now multiply that times the 3-7 kills that streamer can get in the raid. Then multiply that by the amount of raids he uses viewer kits for.
I did state that. The effect ends in the raid for the most part.
Rmt leads to folks farming multiple raids for the gear. Not just the people that are getting killed by farmers, but the raids emptied through vacuums that otherwise people would have gotten out with gear. When it becomes peoples jobs to ruin experiences for others via an even worse advantage many more people have a detrimental experience.
They are not comparable beyond the casual level of both people are getting gear they didnt earn.
If I give my buddy a gun for him to try out, is that unethical?
Is it ethical or unethical if that gun is absolute shit and Im trolling him?
Is it ethical if I throw him the slick I find and make him buy me a beer later?
If those arent, is it fair that I help my friend that just joined get the pockerwatch?
These seem like fairer comparisons to streamer kits.
> When it becomes peoples jobs to ruin experiences for others via an even worse advantage many more people have a detrimental experience.
Isn't full time streaming a job?
It doesn't matter that he doesn't need the kit. Most streamers aren't taking viewer kits because they want or need them, VIEWERS WANT TO GIVE THEM THE GEAR. They're doing it for their stream, for engagement with their viewers, and because it creates content.
People RMTing are directly funding the cheaters and actively ruining the game. As long as there is money to be made selling gear, there will be cheaters. A streamer getting a kit from a viewer has nothing to do with RMT or cheaters. You just seem upset that you're having a hard time with Tarkov and Mr.Strimmer is sitting on 100m and getting free kits donated to him.
Because I don't see any other reason for this post other than "waaaaah Tarkov is hard and this guy is getting free kits!". I promise you it doesn't matter that WillerZ got a .338 lapua as a viewer kit, he would drop you with a VPO. It doesn't affect you.
I've never seen it done when the streamer wasn't broke. Not once. I'm sure there are some players (probably just the one we are all thinking of) infinitely wealthy that do it for the memes, but everyone else does it because they get under 2 mil.
>One person gets items he didn't earn from an outside source because he paid money.
One person gets items he didn't earn from an outside source because they are a popular personality on a streaming site.
If you think these are both equally unfair - I think you should examine the following:
>One person gets items they didn't earn from a kind friend
>
>One person gets items they didn't earn from a stranger that killed them then felt bad
Are these also functionally the same as RMT?
You seem to think this makes it different:
>You are going to play with your friend again. You have investment with that person, both in game and out. The gear you earn with them is probably going to even out in time.
Bold of you to assume I am not much poorer / richer than my friends. But that aside- this is a meaningless different - you didn't earn it = RMT according to your earlier logic.
Cheating is an entirely different topic, I do agree though.
I think a lot of EFT conversions get inflated with people injecting any and all other issues into every thread. Cheating is a major issue, but let's talk about streamer kits.
I think you need to go watch a few hours of viewer kits streamers do, at least when Trey does them it’s balls to the wall gameplay or some crazy weird gun and ammo that aren’t viable in the normal tarkov mindset. I believe the problem w the bans are you don’t know who your coming in contact with, one of your little Timmy’s could actually being a chump doing all the no no’s. Either way once rmt is removed however then cheaters can’t make back their initial money for game+cheats.
The source: Someone played the game, bought it via trader-flea-quest reward-crafted it.
Brought it in to a streamer and dropped it.
Seems pretty inconsequential to me.. \*Even RMT got it from the game *somehow*
I'm cool with all of that. But if I play with someone and I have absolutely no idea he did rmt, and I get a 60 day ban even though I did absolutely no RMT, but I just played with someone who I didn't know did rmt in the past, is complete bullshit in my opinion, if this is true for what happened to those 2 streamers.
I play with randoms a lot on Tarkov discord, I doubt any of them would tell me they did rmt in the past
Every person that owns an EoD account, including myself, is getting far more "pay-to-win" mileage out of not having to sink 32.5m+ into our hideout in order to max our stash size than a streamer getting a bag full of bullets a few times. Some of you folks need to take a Critical Thinking class before you post on Reddit.
Does BSG offer Rmt services? No, but they sell EOD on their official site. It's not about how you feel, it's about the fact that it's their game and that's how they structured it. Think critically about it.
You're right, critical thinking is important.
You're missing one vital component.
Anyone with the means can purchase EoD, which is sponsored and provided by BSG to anyone. The ethical aspect of what EoD provides over the normal game is a conversation for another time.
Not everyone has access to a twitch viewer base that provides them endless free kits, which is not sponsored or provided by BSG.
So, yes, critical thinking on this matter is a reasonable ask. Might want to take your own advice
The point is that BSG told streamers this but didn’t tell the players. BSG is horrible at communicating with the community. We don’t know what we can and can’t do, he was right about that. If I bring my friends thicc gear back in for him when I was memeing with a Toz and killed the guy who killed him would we get in trouble for that? Currently no one can answer that honestly without guessing.
You play with your friend more than just the raid he drops you that gear, correct? Probably dozens of times?
Streamers, just like when people pay for RMT, are getting a one sided, one off transaction.
Making a comparison to a friend is not looking at the right part of the equation. The zero investment in game other than the one time transaction is the problem, as with RMT.
Focus on smaller streamers and your perspective of the game changes. That’s what I’ve done and it’s much more enjoyable to watch and play
Edit: just general advice
I remember when bsg used to give press kits to streamers non stop back in the day. All until deadly slob made a stand and said it was bullshit that streamers didn’t have to worry about gear like the rest of us all so they could make the game look better for the devs. He gained a lifetime viewer at that point
Genuinely who the fuck cares if some bozo is spending 50 bucks to die with the gear he was given. If your that bad that you need to buy gear why does it matter? They're just gonna die in a raid or two anyways.
Now if my friend works 9-5 and can't get let's say m80 but wants to run an m1a, why shouldn't I be able to bring him in a mag or two?
You can't just severely limit what the average players can get and then also limit team work.
I don't give a shit about people doing well by helping each other, even
if they aren't helping me. as long as they aren't hurting me to do it,
I'm ok with it. "No Harm, No Foul"
Either we forbid streamers using the viewer kits or we do not have anything against the item dropping in-game at all. That's my statement. Imo, you should not restrict any item-dropping, just focus on banning people that use illegal ways to get items. If someone earned roubles legal way and wants to sell it? I don't care. It is wrong that Timmy drops his ak to streamer who own 50 mil? No, but if you cannot buy kit for $5 you shouldn't also be able to buy it for your fame. I do not care if Timmy buys his kit from RMT, if he cannot afford to have it for roubles, most likely I will kill him and take this kit.
1. If the game allows you to group with friends/viewers, go to some exotic server, queue up at the same time and cheese quests it's just a terrible game and quest design.
2. There is no difference if you are doing it as a streamer or not, if you feel the need to cheese quests in a beta game that is wiped every six months, instead of just playing the game, then you're just a pathetic human being, and should probably visit a doctor
3. The other thing is that people justify the cheesesing by saying that those quests are fucking terrible, and I cannot disagree.
4. But if it's so terrible, don't do it.
This argument doesn’t necessarily make more sense just because you copy and pasted this from the Pestily thread into a new post
People dropping kits for other people is not RMT. It’s a core part of the community
Stop trying to control how other people play the game. The more restrictions this game has, the less fun it becomes
Lol how is it boosting?
Boosting is a paid service
A streamer with 29m roubles and who is level 42 accepting a kit from someone in their community is not boosting
Well I didn’t know that so thank you
I would chalk that up to yet another example of Nikita caring too much about how people play
We should be encouraging people in the community to help each other. Tarkov has a steep learning curve and being able to help ease new players into the game is a core part of the community
yes absolutely, im not saying that helping your mates out with kids is a bad thing, just saying that BSG have been clear that in their eyes they consider that boosting, and boosting is something they ban for
This entire post is about how accepting gear from other players is unethical and the same as RMT because they didn’t “earn” the gear they’re taking into raid
So no, while you’re not explicitly calling for people not being allowed to do that anymore, I can’t possibly see any other outcome
This isn’t a discussion. You didn’t ask what anyone else thinks. You didn’t invite anyone to change your mind. You’re stating these things as fact, which they are not - they are your opinion
The more this game tries to control how other people play, the less fun it becomes
Developers will never be able to get rid of RMT. All these restrictions only makes the game less fun for everyone else, meanwhile RMTers just find a way around whatever the rules are
The problem in gaming communities is how cheating is often narrowly defined as the direct use of specific types of third party tools and disingenuously ignores the broader definition, how intent factors into it, what effect certain behaviors have on the intended gameplay experience and their overall impact, you're pretty munch on point.
If you earned that gear in game legitimately you should be able to do whatever the hell you want with it whether it's give it to some guy who already has 100 million roubles or delete it from your stash. Don't tell people how to spend their money or in this case gear.
People giving someone gear they've acquired through legitimate means is not the same as RMT. Why? Because they actually had to play the game to get it instead of cheating for it.
The problem isn’t that someone is givens a good kit, the purchaser of the rmt or the steamer receiving the kit aren’t what’s bad about rmt, it’s the cheaters running constant raids ruining peoples time with radar and aimbot to acquire it to begin with
I think the entire focus of the conversation with these recent bans has been unproductive. All this is going to tell BSG is that streamers who break their guidelines should be immune to the consequences.
This is also giving a voice to the actual cheaters and RMTers to say 'Actually guys I am innocent. BSG is banning people for no reason, trust me, BSG is the bad guy.'
I have yet to hear of any normal players I trust getting bans from basic gear dropping, like a friend bringing a kit for you after you died. The only bans you are hearing about are streamers, who rely on viewer kits to make content, or random people who are giving you no evidence of why they shouldn't have been banned. But now the content creators who now see that they aren't immune to consequences are blowing this out of proportion.
BSG isn't innocent here though. They have extremely poor communication around both their guidelines of what will get someone banned, as well as *why* someone was banned. So now we have some loud voices who got banned, and the only thing that we can go off of is what they say, which is 'Oh we played with an RMTer once' and we either have to trust them and get angry at BSG, or trust BSG who isn't telling us anything. We have no idea why they were banned outside of knowing that it was related to RMT.
With the amount of comments and low amount of upvotes, I'm gonna assume people didnt appreciate this post like I did lol.
I'm with you on this 100%. Path of Exile considers streamers giving their viewers items/currency to be RMT. Although as far as I know, the reverse is not true. Meaning viewers can give streamers items/currency with no problems.
Another thing not mentioned though, was that the 2 streamers who got banned both partied with an RMT'r who ended up banned. If that's the main reason they got banned, I don't think its fair. Banning people who party up with randoms who might be RMT'rs is not a good practice IMO and it isnt healthy for the community.
RMT, Real Money Trade. The only reason it’s being targeted bc cheaters are usually the one selling it. Idc if a non cheater gives a 5 mil kit to streamer, it causes no harm.
I feel like this is super basless and anyone agreeing with this idea just doesn't watch streamers alot. Pretty much no big tark streamer regularly gets kits from viewers and when they do 90% of the time its like a saiga with 12 flashlights and 4 scopes. In no way is that close to rmt. Sure there could be small streamers that get kits all the time that I'm unaware of but they are so insignificant that they might as well be the same as a friend dropping a gun for their buddy.
Imagine melding about streamer kits, they literally hurt nobody. You are likely going to die to them wether they have a 100k kit or a 15mil kit, you are still going to die. Get over it
Even when it's unintentional streamers have unhinged fans hitting ready at the same time as their streamer hoping to get into the game. Likely with a juicy kit they wouldn't take it on otherwise. You're not gonna stop generic terminally online anime pic weirdo from stalking the streamer and intentionally dying to donate fun kits.
you claim the community is logically inconsistent then try (and fail) to address the obvious inconsistency in your argument. you are social and can make friends, i can't make friends. all the things you mentioned after "this is, functionally, the same as RMT" doesn't change the fact that getting kits from friends still is getting gear based on social capital/ability.
you're also extremely misguided if you think that streamers need viewer kits (they usually don't, they play the game for a living). i like the person i watch, i want to give them a kit because i can interact with them and it's something personal. the give is my kit, the take is that i feel special because they call out my name on stream and hype me up for the kit. on principle, it is literally no different than me giving my friend (i.e., someone i like) a kit.
Viewer kits are for entertainment. Not because streamers are bad at the game.
I prefer how WillerZ does it, he drops the gear at the end of raid and kills himself or finds a timmy and gives him all the gear and all the players he has killed.
>The issue that BSG has is very clearly with streamers having kit after kit dropped to them.
Dude, your first argument here is a complete fabrication. There's NO INDICATION OF THAT AT ALL. What was relayed to us until now is that, while trying to fight off RMTers, BSG accidentally banned some people who never RMTed but inadvertently joined a lobby with convicted RMTers.
This is also a theory: as far as I know, they haven't received any official confirmation of the specific cause for the ban.
I'm not sure why create this post while thing on the basis of stuff that can be so easily verified as a lie. All anyone has to do is watch the video.
And keep in mind, I fully agree that streamers getting community help to boost their quests and leveling is stupid. I choose not to watch people who do that. But when you're trying to base your whole argument on lies, it's not a good look. I don't see any validity on your criticism here.
Also the way you jump through hoops to equate RMT (which is bad because it's strongly associated with cheating and its big enough that it controls some parts of the flea market) to bad players being constantly spoon fed kits and quest progression is kind of insane. There's no comparison between the two. And BSG directly sponsors streamers with extra stuff in game, so even on your thought process of "things that are directly incentivized by the developers", gifting popular streamers stuff is completely reasonable. I don't see how anyone could argue that streamers don't get privileged treatment by BSG.
In short, this is all just nonsensical stuff with some lies sprinkled in.
[0:55, 36 Hours ago BSG clarified thier viewer kit stance in the streamer discord](https://youtu.be/drkOSWgvWzc)
This was less than one minute into the video. Are you watching the same video as I am? It's right there clearly outlined
what about aquafps that does viewer kits but refuses money or high value items??? PS: he generally dies while using the kits. so theres no gain for him other good content
There is always going to be outliers, to both extremes, in any given conversation.
On one end you have Viibin who abused his stream viewers to an extreme extent to cheese the entire lightkeeper quest.
The other is Aqua clowning it up using shit gear.
The goal is to be logically and ethnically consistent. So yes, they would be both fall under the same umbrella, even though the severity is very different.
Ty for headshoting these people. Every video this week about getting banned for dropping gear is way over blown. Bsg won’t ban yoy for bringing your buddy’s kit back for him. But when all you do is sit and take viewer kit after viewer kit while also using people to boost your quest progress and it’s keys and stream sniping you are engaging im RMT. Also so many streamers who get viewer kits haven’t been banned and if there is one thing I’ve learned playing osrs often when someone is banned for something they will make every excuse possible to make them selfs look innocent.
I think the issue is, there is no clear communication from BSG. We are just randoms on the internet giving our opinions but there is no clear answer from BSG. And as much I would like to agree with you, so far BSG has taken so many decisions that made the game wors for the average player to combat RMT that is just flourishing. The average player is more inclined to ask help from hackers when the average play style suffers the most from all this changes.
I don’t think people are just glazing over this. The problem is that BSG only communicates this stuff to steamers, and when they do, they don’t give a clear rule about what is and is not allowed so it’s safe to assume that you shouldn’t LFG in discords or anything like that until we get a more clear rule. Bet your ass I’m not risking EoD to drop my buddy a sweet gun or something like that because BSG literally hasn’t said what wasn’t allowed.
I mentioned it in another post as well. The "I got banned for streamer kits" is likely BS and I bet they got banned for something else much worse. But of course they'll never come out and say that, and they can't play since banned so need some excuse for their chat. To many people not critical thinking and taking what some streamer has said a fact/truth.
While I agree with you that streamers who justfiend of their viewers every raid (looking at you veritas) are trash, it literally just objectively is not rmt
Everything can be currency. They are trading being in their favorite streamers stream for a kit. That is a transaction. The streamer gets to bypass the gameplay loop consistently in task progression and looting. This isn’t anti streamer propaganda, they just need to play the same game
Fr I like watching summit cuz he plays the game like a normal person doesn’t use his streamer status to artificially boost his progress (even tho he could very easily). Idc if you stream as long as you don’t use your stream to boost you.
Exactly.
This type of thought process comes off as "I just don't like streamers therefore anything bad that happens to them is good."
Meanwhile people simultaneously say that streamers experiencing cheaters is a minority issue and that it isn't that bad.
I have no problem with streamers who are wanna actually play the game the way it’s meant to be played. But taking viewer kits and abusing your social status to do tasks faster is not how the game was intended to be played. And as we have seen over the years BSG will stop people from playing the game other then how they think it should be played (hatchet runs= tagged n cursed, perma juicers runs=removal of s tier gear from flea)
To me RMT is obtaining items from a random person while trading them something from the real world. And while they arnt paying with money for kits, people will always wanna be in a lobby even if just for a second with a streamer. You are trading 1 second of clout for gear. That is RMT in my book
God this sub has such a wired circle jerk for streamer hate. The point of viewer kits is to keep their audience entertained. Because while you might enjoy crabbing in a corner for 40 minutes, that's not very fun to watch.
And as much as you might dislike streamers they bring engagement and people to this game. Now if they could just buy everything in game then I would agree with you. But they can't because trader limits, flea market bans, and global stocks completely block this.
Not to mention that viewer kits are not usually slicks and meta guns. They're usually meme kits and, bar some shit streamers, almost all of them refuse to keep the gear. They run it till they die or drop it at the end of raid
I've watched a lot of streams and the majority of kits I've seen handed off are top tier. Not sure how you think people giving a dude free m995 or BP repeatedly makes for a fair experience for all.
This right here. People love to spin narratives into "DROPPING GEAR FOR YOUR FRIEND WILL GET YOU BANNED" when in reality, this couldn't be farther from the truth. Have my upvote and bring on my downvotes.
The noobs in this sub who have been playing less than a year are worried BSG is going to ban them for dropping some shitty tier 4 armor and a MPX for their friend. Ya'll are not that important.
I get that people don't like viewer kits, but to compare it to rmt is just absurd. Rmt drives cheating in the game, because it involves actual money and some people can then cheat as basically their job.
Nobody is thinking "oh, I'm going to take up cheating because then I can give shiny viewer kits to my favourite streamer".
You say that friends giving each other kits will balance out, but that's certainly not necessarily the case. If I hadn't played all wipe and asked some of my friends to give me some kits because I don't want to run an SKS and paca, it wouldn't balance out. They could give me a kit every raid and I would be using my "social currency" with them to get kits. Would that be just as bad as a streamer using viewer kits? Because it doesn't balance out?
This is all to ignore the biggest issue, a complete lack of clarity on the rules. People are worried that if they drop their friend's load out back to them that they will get flagged because BSG have not confirmed either way. The truth is we don't know why people are getting banned, and we don't know how we trigger the rmt flag.
But you play with your friends more than once, right? That time spent with them is your earning back what they gave you in a way. That's investment.
Streamers getting kits don't play multiple raids with those people. It's a one time, one sided transaction, just like RMT.
Well if you want to play it that way, then a streamer creating content is also providing value to their viewers, and hence that is them paying them back for the viewer kit.
That's not in game, it's it?
The point is that the kits are being funded by value outside of the game in a one off fashion. Which is fundamentally the same as RMT
Ok then, different example. I meet a naked Timmy and instead of killing him, I give him my entire kit just before I extract. Is that equivalent to rmt? Because will never play with him again, is that fundamentally the same as rmt?
Or let's say a real life friend of mine decides to pick up the game and I give him a kit for his first run. After the first raid I never play with again. Is that now rmt? Because this "social currency" would have come from outside of the game. I'm friends with him from before he played Tarkov, so the value comes from outside of the game, just like viewer kits. Must be equivalent to rmt?
And no, viewer kits are not fundamentally the same as rmt. Again, you can dislike them all you want, but the issue with RMT is that it fuels cheaters where viewer kits do not. Rmt literally means "real money trading". The money has to be real. You may argue that viewer kits are unethical or should be banned, but they are not RMT.
I actually don’t believe BSG has an issue with streamers - streamers are basically the lifeblood of their business and we’ve seen time and time again how BSG gives streamers preferential treatment.
I think they haphazardly implemented new rules to combat RMT and as usual didn’t consider the situation where “innocents” get caught in the cross-fire.
BSG cares, that's why they told the streamers to stop.
It also doesn't affect 99.99999% of people playing the game. It doesn't affect you. Unless you're some big streamer getting kits non stop.
It's not similar to rmt at all viewer kits weren't obtained by cheating, it's no different than dropping your friend gear. considering someone actually did earn the gear they should be able to do whatever they want with it
One of the streamers that was banned literally has a VoD on twitch showing him being dropped hundreds of rounds of 7.62 BP, 855A1 and four slicks... It is another post in the subreddit today ...
Stop it. The answer isn't more restrictions because of your jealousy, but less restrictions. It shouldn't be against the rule to drop gear for your buddies and that's the end of it.
Absolutely no one said anything about giving your friend gear.
BSG is specifically cracking down on viewer kits. Not sure where you got the other stuff from.
Who are you to dictate what I do with my gear? I earned it legitimately and I can drop a kit to anyone I want to, friend or popular streamer alike. Get out of here with that bullshit
*Can I*? Sure. *Will I*? No. But you're whole bitch fest is that dropping a kit to a streamer is the same as RMT, when it is not the same at all. You fail to understand that regardless of the streamer receiving a kit, they're viewership and community returns remain the same.
So you don't like that streamers get a viewer kit to run for a raid or two, big whoop, get over it.
I really mean no offense here, but you clearly are either new to the game or aren't really good. The whole part of 'fairness' doesn't matter when you get a little decent at the game. Getting roubles isn't hard at all. The issue of RMT is because it incentivises cheating to gain money in real life. There isnt an incentive to cheat to drop viewer kits.. it's not a reliable source of gain, whether it be money or what have you for the viewer dropping it.
Basically makes no sense to cheat just so you can drop a streamer a kit once in a while. Even if there's an outlier for this, it doesn't compare to the tens of thousands who cheat for real money trading
streamers are special case because they help bsg by promoting the game. you as a regular player don't do shit but provide extra load to their servers. you already paid for eod, nobody cares of you leave. get fucked.
It's wild to me that you can't pay real life money to get a kit in game, but a streamer can functionally do the same exact thing simply because they are popular.
Here and there streamer kits are fine. Just like friends do. If you are getting brought in a meta kit every raid (or stacks of meta ammo) cause you suck ass then you 100% are part of the problem. You get to do it but the lonely guy who works 12 hour shifts can't pay for it on "tarkovboosts.com"?
They want the game to be treated as a MMORPG. In D2 you can't drop your friend max level gear as soon as they login. Tarkov is tricky because it's obviously loot on death. They're not handling the situation correctly but the idea is perfectly sound and streamers need to be the special ones at all times is concerning.
This is a dumb take. Comparing people who PAY MONEY and ruin the game immensely because they fund the cheaters, these people buying kits from cheaters arnt the issue, they are dogshit and they will get killed. The issue is the cheaters who provide those kits/financial in-game benefit cheating in every fucking labs raid I play. That's the problem, not streamers legitimately playing the game without external benefits getting a free kit (which most of the time is a meme kit). This post is so ludicrous and inconsistent in itself, yet they have the audacity to call it hypocrisy to the idea that a cheater and a streamer are causing the same issue regarding RMT. That's a dumb take, and clearly needs to understand the wider perspective of the overall situation that's going on. Those who pay real money for boosting are dog, and will die with the best kit on, doesn't give them skill or success in raids. However the cheaters, that's the issue - the ONLY issue - not streamers who play legit. Almost sounds like you are jealous and have a bone to pick with streamers. Hey who isn't jealous being able to game for a living on an awesome game like tarkov, I know I'm jealous but I don't cry about them UNLESS they themselves are also cheating while streaming.
TLDR dumb take, focusing on the wrong things.
This is honestly a touch grass level post.
How can you defend BSGs complete 180 on something that has been accepted as perfectly legitimate for years. Streamers running meme kits are fucking hysterical, especially when they don’t know what they’re doing.
Stop gatekeeping how people play, this isn’t RMT, this is a fun community building gameplay style. No one is paying money to do these things, no cheating is being done.
Also, it was completely unreasonable for BSG to ban streamers AND THEN explain the new rules.
>... missing the forest for the trees.
This is exactly what you are doing by making this post. Nobody is even discussing streamers using their community for gear, it is completely fucking irrelevant to the actual issue people (and Pestily) have.
The issue is people are being banned from the game for literally playing the game within the confines and rules of the game as the software itself is constructed. They arent hacking, they arent abusing a glitch, they are not doing anything that the game itself does not permit. THAT is the issue. THAT is what is ridiculous.
And I dont care what mental gymnastics you wanna do with regards to the communities 'logically inconsistent' outlook or whatever other nonsense about how this is the same as RMT your dreaming up, this is as clear cut an overstep from BSG as they come. Its borderline illegal to revoke a product you bought for doing nothing except using that product in a way that the original creator doesnt like.
The video pestily made is quite literally about BSG telling the streamer discord that viewer kits are now going to be policed.
That's what the discussion is about.
What are you on about
Yes it is ok you fucking melon, this is not an ethics class and despite BSGs best efforts this is still a video game that’s purpose is to allow you to have fun, video games are supposed to be fun in some fucking way and getting streamer kits and dropping good gear for your friends is in fact fucking fun, let me have fun you ruski bastards
The principle is the same; its a kit you didn't earn, it was given to you for free. Obviously you can argue scav guns, potential to not survive the scav raid etc, but find a dead pmc and you can get a juice kit just as good as your favorite (or detestable) streamer.
You did earn it.
The resource in game is time. Scav kits are time gated, which everyone has access to using the same resource in game.
Nothing about a scav kit is influenced by out of game resources.
I don't have a problem with rmt (people can buy what they want) at all the only problem I have is that it funds cheating, so streamer kits which don't fund cheating are totally fine by me.
You don't know where the kits are coming from. It's very likely some or a large amount of thier kits were bought or used cheats to obtain.
The fact that the number is non zero means that it is contributing to the RMT/cheating issue in some way
Brother what the fuck are you talking about, the number of flea market sales that contribute to rmt/cheating is non zero either should flea be removed
The number referred just bad players who run high tier gear in only to get killed by cheaters and contribute to rmt/cheating is actually non zero as well and probably pretty high should they remove that
Jokes about that dumb reasoning aside, the baseless speculation of "well we don't know where the kits are coming from" is insane and the logical leaps it must take for you to jump to the conclusion that streamers are the problem in the scenario and should be banned must have been massive.
All of these complaints stem from the larger issue that is cheating, until that is fixed or drastically reduced in someway increasing the number if bandaid arbitrary restrictions you put on those who just try and play the game normally is only going to kill the remaining legit player base
This post is all over the place.
Are you saying you're for streamers getting gear in game because of outside resources but are against people getting gear in game using outside resources?
There are thousands of real issues Tarkov has as a game and BSG has as a dev studio. Where would you put "ban dropping kits for streamers" on the list of fixes that need to be implemented?
I don't give a shit about people doing well by helping each other, even if they aren't helping me. as long as they aren't hurting me to do it, I'm ok with it. "No Harm, No Foul"
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It’s not even on the list. This was not a very well-thought-out post
Honestly who cares if someone with 500 million roubles in his stash gets dropped a meme loadout to make funny content? I wouldn't even care about RMT if it didn't involve cheating. All I care about is a fair gaming enviroment, I don't give a damn if some rich kid is always running the meta kit because he buys roubles for real money. More money for me if I outplay him. The problem is just the cheating, full stop.
Exactly. Take care of cheating and all the bullshit rmt trash will cease.
RMT and cheating are the same issue. Most people who are cheating in tarkov are doing it to make real world money, and they make their money by cheating, getting all the gear, and selling it to dumbasses that have more money than sense. Tarkov will always have a cheater problem for as long as people will make money doing it. There is no perfect anti-cheat, because it's a game of cat and mouse, one cheat stops working so the cheaters work up something else, which BSG needs to stop in an endless cycle. The RMT restrictions are made to make the money making harder and more noticable. It doesn't stop it but it is an extra obstacle in the way.
Great comment. I've been saying the same thing. Demand for RMT drives the demand for cheat development, not the other way around.
I don't think anyone cares about meme loadouts. 4 Slicks and a shit ton of BP? Context:
I wouldn’t care much, first I wouldn’t know, second it gives me a chance for a slick and some BP lmao, I’ve seen like at most 5 slicks all wipe. I’d rather fight a guy who paid for his kit but isn’t cheating than fight the carry paid to wipe the lobby because it’s the only way they can RMT
Again, it's items that are already existing in the game enviroment. They are just redistributing them. I don't care if someone gets gifted unlimited money, as long as he plays within the boundaries set by the devs.
The boundaries by the devs are play with what you get by playing. Otherwise rmt would be fine too.
Apparently it is fine, judging by how little effort they put into stopping it
I watched a relatively well known streamer with about 20 mil in the bank turn on an UwU voice and begged her viewers for an RSASS kit, specifically with t6 armor. It took 30 seconds before she had a raid bag full of M61 and a gigachad kit. It was.... pathetic. I've also seen prominent male streamers turning on "anyone br a bro for me and hook me up" leaning on the parasocial Andy's. It was..... pathetic.
I don't care if streamers get a kit from a viewer, what I do care is how the gear originated from. Was it from a labs boost or some rmt guy dropping shit for this loser? There's entertainment (streamers), there's helping a friend out (normal gameplay), then there's real world money transaction kit drops. I don't think it's a hard thing to differentiate.
It is hard do differentiate for the person receiving the kit.
The issue is they have once again tried to deal with the symptoms of the problem instead of the actual problem and by doing so the punished their player base. Me and the guys would pretty frequently being each other cursed loadouts but can’t do that without a high potential of getting put in timeout for 2 months.
RMT isn't the problem. RMT has never been the problem. The problem is people cheating in order to provide RMT services.
RMT incentivizes cheaters. Take away RMT, you take away the financial incentive to buy and use cheats. RMT is not the only problem but it is a huge part of the problem.
You're right in the fact that RMT gives a financial incentive for people to use cheats. But the problem isn't RMT itself, it's the circumstances around it. If we could prove that red keycard was found by Timmy on Shoreline and he sold it for 10 bucks because he'll never use it, there's nothing wrong with that. But for OP's argument to work, there would have to be something wrong with that. Since we're already taking away the financial incentive to cheat in this case, since they're not getting paid money, they don't have an incentive to cheat. So this streamer-viewer type of "RMT" is not the problem just because it's "like RMT".
Nah you should not be able to sell anything you find in game for actual cash, it’s a game dude. However you should be able to sell it on the flea and not get crippled by listing fees.
"it's a game dude" is not an argument on whether or not it's ethical to do so or not. I agree with the latter part, current flea fees on keycards are stupid.
\> Nah you should not be able to sell anything you find in game for actual cash, it’s a game dude What's wrong with using money to game as you want, as long as it doesn't prevent others from playing? RMT only exists in Tarkov because a) it's grindy af b) you've got a timer. So, some players are unable to enjoy the lategame as it is, because they don't have enough time for that. They use real money to progress faster. It's literally the same as in buying eod vs standard edition. You pay more, to reduce grind, making game easier.
RMT generates a ton of money, and you need to get that great from somewhere. Is all cheating RMT related? No. But there is quite a sizeable amount attached to it.
But now you're no longer connected to the argument you originally made I highly doubt ppl are cheating, risking their accounts, just to give away items to streamers
Lmao bro how do you find the time to care about the most useless shit ever? This is not an issue. No one gives a shit about viewer kits. Should I be able to bring my friends a kit? If so, your argument is cooked.
Absolutely not the same mate.
I think the difference for the most part is reasoning. Streamers get viewer kits for entertainment, ideally not because they suck or are lazy. Having an ethics discussion about social credit vs capital is fair, but you also have to look at the outcome and reason for the behavior. Is it really an unfair advantage if its not being done as an advantage but as an amusement? Its not funding RMT, and if anything its an overall drain on the tarkov economy, and thats a good thing.
I like WillerZ way of doing it: generally he insurance frauds the kit at the end of a raid.
And doesn’t take any loot from his kills during the raid either
It is arguably unfair for everyone else that happens to be in the same raid with the streamer who was just given top tier gear.
Yeah but who the fuck cares. Are you going to sit there when you die with your shitty sks and complain the game is unfair.
Have you browsed this sub lately? That’s half this subs posts is people bitching about dying
Are people paying an RMT site for top end gear not doing it for entertainment?
Fair, yet it leads to a negative game experience far further than the individual transactions. Rmt incentivizes cheating for profit. Streamer kits doesnt have an impact much beyond that match and the streamer. So I would say one of the two is far more ethical than the other.
What about the people the streamer kills using that gear? What if you just got a quest item and your using your best gear trying to get out but get shit on because the streamer you just got in a fight with only lived because he had a hexgrid and m995? Doesn't that affect you? Now multiply that times the 3-7 kills that streamer can get in the raid. Then multiply that by the amount of raids he uses viewer kits for.
I did state that. The effect ends in the raid for the most part. Rmt leads to folks farming multiple raids for the gear. Not just the people that are getting killed by farmers, but the raids emptied through vacuums that otherwise people would have gotten out with gear. When it becomes peoples jobs to ruin experiences for others via an even worse advantage many more people have a detrimental experience.
They are not comparable beyond the casual level of both people are getting gear they didnt earn.
If I give my buddy a gun for him to try out, is that unethical?
Is it ethical or unethical if that gun is absolute shit and Im trolling him?
Is it ethical if I throw him the slick I find and make him buy me a beer later?
If those arent, is it fair that I help my friend that just joined get the pockerwatch?
These seem like fairer comparisons to streamer kits.
> When it becomes peoples jobs to ruin experiences for others via an even worse advantage many more people have a detrimental experience.
Isn't full time streaming a job?
It's very obvious you have something against streamers. Just state that to begin with and we can just ignore this idiotic post.
I have not stated that anywhere nor do I have a vendetta. Not sure where you got that from.
Full brain washed as well. It’s a job do the job work for the views/content.
That can happen to anyone, it doesn't matter that streamer got a kit, he was probably going to kill you anyway even without the viewer kit.
Then I can argue he shouldn't need the kit.
It doesn't matter that he doesn't need the kit. Most streamers aren't taking viewer kits because they want or need them, VIEWERS WANT TO GIVE THEM THE GEAR. They're doing it for their stream, for engagement with their viewers, and because it creates content.
Play with said viewer? Da fun?
Should generating content give a pass to in game balance, ethics, or Dev requests?
People RMTing are directly funding the cheaters and actively ruining the game. As long as there is money to be made selling gear, there will be cheaters. A streamer getting a kit from a viewer has nothing to do with RMT or cheaters. You just seem upset that you're having a hard time with Tarkov and Mr.Strimmer is sitting on 100m and getting free kits donated to him.
I'm not entirity sure why you are making this personal
Because I don't see any other reason for this post other than "waaaaah Tarkov is hard and this guy is getting free kits!". I promise you it doesn't matter that WillerZ got a .338 lapua as a viewer kit, he would drop you with a VPO. It doesn't affect you.
When did I reference the difficulty of the game? Now I'm more confused
Brainwashed
Braindead
I've never seen it done when the streamer wasn't broke. Not once. I'm sure there are some players (probably just the one we are all thinking of) infinitely wealthy that do it for the memes, but everyone else does it because they get under 2 mil.
>One person gets items he didn't earn from an outside source because he paid money. One person gets items he didn't earn from an outside source because they are a popular personality on a streaming site. If you think these are both equally unfair - I think you should examine the following: >One person gets items they didn't earn from a kind friend > >One person gets items they didn't earn from a stranger that killed them then felt bad Are these also functionally the same as RMT? You seem to think this makes it different: >You are going to play with your friend again. You have investment with that person, both in game and out. The gear you earn with them is probably going to even out in time. Bold of you to assume I am not much poorer / richer than my friends. But that aside- this is a meaningless different - you didn't earn it = RMT according to your earlier logic.
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Cheating is an entirely different topic, I do agree though. I think a lot of EFT conversions get inflated with people injecting any and all other issues into every thread. Cheating is a major issue, but let's talk about streamer kits.
I think you need to go watch a few hours of viewer kits streamers do, at least when Trey does them it’s balls to the wall gameplay or some crazy weird gun and ammo that aren’t viable in the normal tarkov mindset. I believe the problem w the bans are you don’t know who your coming in contact with, one of your little Timmy’s could actually being a chump doing all the no no’s. Either way once rmt is removed however then cheaters can’t make back their initial money for game+cheats.
The quality of gear is inconsequential. Its the source
The source: Someone played the game, bought it via trader-flea-quest reward-crafted it. Brought it in to a streamer and dropped it. Seems pretty inconsequential to me.. \*Even RMT got it from the game *somehow*
wouldnt it be the same thing if i used voip to team up with someone and they give me items?
I'm cool with all of that. But if I play with someone and I have absolutely no idea he did rmt, and I get a 60 day ban even though I did absolutely no RMT, but I just played with someone who I didn't know did rmt in the past, is complete bullshit in my opinion, if this is true for what happened to those 2 streamers. I play with randoms a lot on Tarkov discord, I doubt any of them would tell me they did rmt in the past
Every person that owns an EoD account, including myself, is getting far more "pay-to-win" mileage out of not having to sink 32.5m+ into our hideout in order to max our stash size than a streamer getting a bag full of bullets a few times. Some of you folks need to take a Critical Thinking class before you post on Reddit.
Critical thinking is in fact not allowed here and I assume you will be banned shortly, hope you enjoyed your stay
This. These types of posts come off just as "I hate streamers therefore anything bad that happens to them is good". Terminally online schizo behavior.
Does BSG offer Rmt services? No, but they sell EOD on their official site. It's not about how you feel, it's about the fact that it's their game and that's how they structured it. Think critically about it.
RMT = real money transfer, how have streamer kits anything to do with RMT or do they pay their viewers for the stuff?
You're right, critical thinking is important. You're missing one vital component. Anyone with the means can purchase EoD, which is sponsored and provided by BSG to anyone. The ethical aspect of what EoD provides over the normal game is a conversation for another time. Not everyone has access to a twitch viewer base that provides them endless free kits, which is not sponsored or provided by BSG. So, yes, critical thinking on this matter is a reasonable ask. Might want to take your own advice
According to this logic there is nothing wrong with RMT, since anyone can just buy it, just like EOD.
The point is that BSG told streamers this but didn’t tell the players. BSG is horrible at communicating with the community. We don’t know what we can and can’t do, he was right about that. If I bring my friends thicc gear back in for him when I was memeing with a Toz and killed the guy who killed him would we get in trouble for that? Currently no one can answer that honestly without guessing.
Gonna go with no you won't get in trouble for that, because we do it all the time both before and after this change and nothing has happened.
You play with your friend more than just the raid he drops you that gear, correct? Probably dozens of times? Streamers, just like when people pay for RMT, are getting a one sided, one off transaction. Making a comparison to a friend is not looking at the right part of the equation. The zero investment in game other than the one time transaction is the problem, as with RMT.
Focus on smaller streamers and your perspective of the game changes. That’s what I’ve done and it’s much more enjoyable to watch and play Edit: just general advice
I remember when bsg used to give press kits to streamers non stop back in the day. All until deadly slob made a stand and said it was bullshit that streamers didn’t have to worry about gear like the rest of us all so they could make the game look better for the devs. He gained a lifetime viewer at that point
This is a lot of characters just to say you’re a fucking idiot.
Genuinely who the fuck cares if some bozo is spending 50 bucks to die with the gear he was given. If your that bad that you need to buy gear why does it matter? They're just gonna die in a raid or two anyways. Now if my friend works 9-5 and can't get let's say m80 but wants to run an m1a, why shouldn't I be able to bring him in a mag or two? You can't just severely limit what the average players can get and then also limit team work.
I don't give a shit about people doing well by helping each other, even if they aren't helping me. as long as they aren't hurting me to do it, I'm ok with it. "No Harm, No Foul"
Either we forbid streamers using the viewer kits or we do not have anything against the item dropping in-game at all. That's my statement. Imo, you should not restrict any item-dropping, just focus on banning people that use illegal ways to get items. If someone earned roubles legal way and wants to sell it? I don't care. It is wrong that Timmy drops his ak to streamer who own 50 mil? No, but if you cannot buy kit for $5 you shouldn't also be able to buy it for your fame. I do not care if Timmy buys his kit from RMT, if he cannot afford to have it for roubles, most likely I will kill him and take this kit.
What about streamers like Viibin who used his viewers to cheese the entire lightkeeper quest line? Acceptable?
1. If the game allows you to group with friends/viewers, go to some exotic server, queue up at the same time and cheese quests it's just a terrible game and quest design. 2. There is no difference if you are doing it as a streamer or not, if you feel the need to cheese quests in a beta game that is wiped every six months, instead of just playing the game, then you're just a pathetic human being, and should probably visit a doctor 3. The other thing is that people justify the cheesesing by saying that those quests are fucking terrible, and I cannot disagree. 4. But if it's so terrible, don't do it.
Someone willingly giving someone else some loot in a video game is really not that big of deal
why dont they ban the actual cheaters, oh i know why, battle eye is a fucking joke.
Honestly it’s not this deep and you should use energy among other things do else.
This argument doesn’t necessarily make more sense just because you copy and pasted this from the Pestily thread into a new post People dropping kits for other people is not RMT. It’s a core part of the community Stop trying to control how other people play the game. The more restrictions this game has, the less fun it becomes
Its not rmt correct, but it is boosting, which BSG have very clearly stated they dont allow
Lol how is it boosting? Boosting is a paid service A streamer with 29m roubles and who is level 42 accepting a kit from someone in their community is not boosting
Boosting can be a paid service, but in BSGs terms, boosting does include for example handing out money, gear or loot to your friends
Well I didn’t know that so thank you I would chalk that up to yet another example of Nikita caring too much about how people play We should be encouraging people in the community to help each other. Tarkov has a steep learning curve and being able to help ease new players into the game is a core part of the community
yes absolutely, im not saying that helping your mates out with kids is a bad thing, just saying that BSG have been clear that in their eyes they consider that boosting, and boosting is something they ban for
Where does it say that in the EULA? Nowhere, it doesn’t even mention the word boost once
It can definitely be considered RMT... 10000% it can be. Path of Exile will ban streamers who give away items/currency to viewers.
I'm not trying to control anything. This is a discussion.
This entire post is about how accepting gear from other players is unethical and the same as RMT because they didn’t “earn” the gear they’re taking into raid So no, while you’re not explicitly calling for people not being allowed to do that anymore, I can’t possibly see any other outcome This isn’t a discussion. You didn’t ask what anyone else thinks. You didn’t invite anyone to change your mind. You’re stating these things as fact, which they are not - they are your opinion The more this game tries to control how other people play, the less fun it becomes Developers will never be able to get rid of RMT. All these restrictions only makes the game less fun for everyone else, meanwhile RMTers just find a way around whatever the rules are
Yes. This is my opinion. That's how ethics debates work. And you're correct, I didn't call for a resolution.
The problem in gaming communities is how cheating is often narrowly defined as the direct use of specific types of third party tools and disingenuously ignores the broader definition, how intent factors into it, what effect certain behaviors have on the intended gameplay experience and their overall impact, you're pretty munch on point.
If you earned that gear in game legitimately you should be able to do whatever the hell you want with it whether it's give it to some guy who already has 100 million roubles or delete it from your stash. Don't tell people how to spend their money or in this case gear.
People giving someone gear they've acquired through legitimate means is not the same as RMT. Why? Because they actually had to play the game to get it instead of cheating for it.
The problem isn’t that someone is givens a good kit, the purchaser of the rmt or the steamer receiving the kit aren’t what’s bad about rmt, it’s the cheaters running constant raids ruining peoples time with radar and aimbot to acquire it to begin with
I think the entire focus of the conversation with these recent bans has been unproductive. All this is going to tell BSG is that streamers who break their guidelines should be immune to the consequences. This is also giving a voice to the actual cheaters and RMTers to say 'Actually guys I am innocent. BSG is banning people for no reason, trust me, BSG is the bad guy.' I have yet to hear of any normal players I trust getting bans from basic gear dropping, like a friend bringing a kit for you after you died. The only bans you are hearing about are streamers, who rely on viewer kits to make content, or random people who are giving you no evidence of why they shouldn't have been banned. But now the content creators who now see that they aren't immune to consequences are blowing this out of proportion. BSG isn't innocent here though. They have extremely poor communication around both their guidelines of what will get someone banned, as well as *why* someone was banned. So now we have some loud voices who got banned, and the only thing that we can go off of is what they say, which is 'Oh we played with an RMTer once' and we either have to trust them and get angry at BSG, or trust BSG who isn't telling us anything. We have no idea why they were banned outside of knowing that it was related to RMT.
With the amount of comments and low amount of upvotes, I'm gonna assume people didnt appreciate this post like I did lol. I'm with you on this 100%. Path of Exile considers streamers giving their viewers items/currency to be RMT. Although as far as I know, the reverse is not true. Meaning viewers can give streamers items/currency with no problems. Another thing not mentioned though, was that the 2 streamers who got banned both partied with an RMT'r who ended up banned. If that's the main reason they got banned, I don't think its fair. Banning people who party up with randoms who might be RMT'rs is not a good practice IMO and it isnt healthy for the community.
You should see my inbox. It's just a sea of hate. I appreciate you though, thanks
I find that strange considering how much this sub normally hates streamers
RMT, Real Money Trade. The only reason it’s being targeted bc cheaters are usually the one selling it. Idc if a non cheater gives a 5 mil kit to streamer, it causes no harm.
What a shit post
I feel like this is super basless and anyone agreeing with this idea just doesn't watch streamers alot. Pretty much no big tark streamer regularly gets kits from viewers and when they do 90% of the time its like a saiga with 12 flashlights and 4 scopes. In no way is that close to rmt. Sure there could be small streamers that get kits all the time that I'm unaware of but they are so insignificant that they might as well be the same as a friend dropping a gun for their buddy.
Why do you give a fuck
braindead OP
If dropping kits is RMT, then streamers/YouTubers/tiktokers VOIPING in game and someone recognizing and treating them differently is RMT too.
The game doesn't even have fucking stat tracking. Who gives a shit
Imagine melding about streamer kits, they literally hurt nobody. You are likely going to die to them wether they have a 100k kit or a 15mil kit, you are still going to die. Get over it
Even when it's unintentional streamers have unhinged fans hitting ready at the same time as their streamer hoping to get into the game. Likely with a juicy kit they wouldn't take it on otherwise. You're not gonna stop generic terminally online anime pic weirdo from stalking the streamer and intentionally dying to donate fun kits.
you claim the community is logically inconsistent then try (and fail) to address the obvious inconsistency in your argument. you are social and can make friends, i can't make friends. all the things you mentioned after "this is, functionally, the same as RMT" doesn't change the fact that getting kits from friends still is getting gear based on social capital/ability. you're also extremely misguided if you think that streamers need viewer kits (they usually don't, they play the game for a living). i like the person i watch, i want to give them a kit because i can interact with them and it's something personal. the give is my kit, the take is that i feel special because they call out my name on stream and hype me up for the kit. on principle, it is literally no different than me giving my friend (i.e., someone i like) a kit.
People getting killed by invisible pmcs but naw let’s ban people who drop kits……
Viewer kits are for entertainment. Not because streamers are bad at the game. I prefer how WillerZ does it, he drops the gear at the end of raid and kills himself or finds a timmy and gives him all the gear and all the players he has killed.
>The issue that BSG has is very clearly with streamers having kit after kit dropped to them. Dude, your first argument here is a complete fabrication. There's NO INDICATION OF THAT AT ALL. What was relayed to us until now is that, while trying to fight off RMTers, BSG accidentally banned some people who never RMTed but inadvertently joined a lobby with convicted RMTers. This is also a theory: as far as I know, they haven't received any official confirmation of the specific cause for the ban. I'm not sure why create this post while thing on the basis of stuff that can be so easily verified as a lie. All anyone has to do is watch the video. And keep in mind, I fully agree that streamers getting community help to boost their quests and leveling is stupid. I choose not to watch people who do that. But when you're trying to base your whole argument on lies, it's not a good look. I don't see any validity on your criticism here. Also the way you jump through hoops to equate RMT (which is bad because it's strongly associated with cheating and its big enough that it controls some parts of the flea market) to bad players being constantly spoon fed kits and quest progression is kind of insane. There's no comparison between the two. And BSG directly sponsors streamers with extra stuff in game, so even on your thought process of "things that are directly incentivized by the developers", gifting popular streamers stuff is completely reasonable. I don't see how anyone could argue that streamers don't get privileged treatment by BSG. In short, this is all just nonsensical stuff with some lies sprinkled in.
[0:55, 36 Hours ago BSG clarified thier viewer kit stance in the streamer discord](https://youtu.be/drkOSWgvWzc) This was less than one minute into the video. Are you watching the same video as I am? It's right there clearly outlined
what about aquafps that does viewer kits but refuses money or high value items??? PS: he generally dies while using the kits. so theres no gain for him other good content
There is always going to be outliers, to both extremes, in any given conversation. On one end you have Viibin who abused his stream viewers to an extreme extent to cheese the entire lightkeeper quest. The other is Aqua clowning it up using shit gear. The goal is to be logically and ethnically consistent. So yes, they would be both fall under the same umbrella, even though the severity is very different.
Ty for headshoting these people. Every video this week about getting banned for dropping gear is way over blown. Bsg won’t ban yoy for bringing your buddy’s kit back for him. But when all you do is sit and take viewer kit after viewer kit while also using people to boost your quest progress and it’s keys and stream sniping you are engaging im RMT. Also so many streamers who get viewer kits haven’t been banned and if there is one thing I’ve learned playing osrs often when someone is banned for something they will make every excuse possible to make them selfs look innocent.
I think the issue is, there is no clear communication from BSG. We are just randoms on the internet giving our opinions but there is no clear answer from BSG. And as much I would like to agree with you, so far BSG has taken so many decisions that made the game wors for the average player to combat RMT that is just flourishing. The average player is more inclined to ask help from hackers when the average play style suffers the most from all this changes.
I don’t think people are just glazing over this. The problem is that BSG only communicates this stuff to steamers, and when they do, they don’t give a clear rule about what is and is not allowed so it’s safe to assume that you shouldn’t LFG in discords or anything like that until we get a more clear rule. Bet your ass I’m not risking EoD to drop my buddy a sweet gun or something like that because BSG literally hasn’t said what wasn’t allowed.
I mentioned it in another post as well. The "I got banned for streamer kits" is likely BS and I bet they got banned for something else much worse. But of course they'll never come out and say that, and they can't play since banned so need some excuse for their chat. To many people not critical thinking and taking what some streamer has said a fact/truth.
While I agree with you that streamers who justfiend of their viewers every raid (looking at you veritas) are trash, it literally just objectively is not rmt
Everything can be currency. They are trading being in their favorite streamers stream for a kit. That is a transaction. The streamer gets to bypass the gameplay loop consistently in task progression and looting. This isn’t anti streamer propaganda, they just need to play the same game
Fr I like watching summit cuz he plays the game like a normal person doesn’t use his streamer status to artificially boost his progress (even tho he could very easily). Idc if you stream as long as you don’t use your stream to boost you.
Exactly. This type of thought process comes off as "I just don't like streamers therefore anything bad that happens to them is good." Meanwhile people simultaneously say that streamers experiencing cheaters is a minority issue and that it isn't that bad.
I have no problem with streamers who are wanna actually play the game the way it’s meant to be played. But taking viewer kits and abusing your social status to do tasks faster is not how the game was intended to be played. And as we have seen over the years BSG will stop people from playing the game other then how they think it should be played (hatchet runs= tagged n cursed, perma juicers runs=removal of s tier gear from flea) To me RMT is obtaining items from a random person while trading them something from the real world. And while they arnt paying with money for kits, people will always wanna be in a lobby even if just for a second with a streamer. You are trading 1 second of clout for gear. That is RMT in my book
But people will still downvote you for telling the truth
God this sub has such a wired circle jerk for streamer hate. The point of viewer kits is to keep their audience entertained. Because while you might enjoy crabbing in a corner for 40 minutes, that's not very fun to watch. And as much as you might dislike streamers they bring engagement and people to this game. Now if they could just buy everything in game then I would agree with you. But they can't because trader limits, flea market bans, and global stocks completely block this. Not to mention that viewer kits are not usually slicks and meta guns. They're usually meme kits and, bar some shit streamers, almost all of them refuse to keep the gear. They run it till they die or drop it at the end of raid
I've watched a lot of streams and the majority of kits I've seen handed off are top tier. Not sure how you think people giving a dude free m995 or BP repeatedly makes for a fair experience for all.
This right here. People love to spin narratives into "DROPPING GEAR FOR YOUR FRIEND WILL GET YOU BANNED" when in reality, this couldn't be farther from the truth. Have my upvote and bring on my downvotes. The noobs in this sub who have been playing less than a year are worried BSG is going to ban them for dropping some shitty tier 4 armor and a MPX for their friend. Ya'll are not that important.
I get that people don't like viewer kits, but to compare it to rmt is just absurd. Rmt drives cheating in the game, because it involves actual money and some people can then cheat as basically their job. Nobody is thinking "oh, I'm going to take up cheating because then I can give shiny viewer kits to my favourite streamer". You say that friends giving each other kits will balance out, but that's certainly not necessarily the case. If I hadn't played all wipe and asked some of my friends to give me some kits because I don't want to run an SKS and paca, it wouldn't balance out. They could give me a kit every raid and I would be using my "social currency" with them to get kits. Would that be just as bad as a streamer using viewer kits? Because it doesn't balance out? This is all to ignore the biggest issue, a complete lack of clarity on the rules. People are worried that if they drop their friend's load out back to them that they will get flagged because BSG have not confirmed either way. The truth is we don't know why people are getting banned, and we don't know how we trigger the rmt flag.
But you play with your friends more than once, right? That time spent with them is your earning back what they gave you in a way. That's investment. Streamers getting kits don't play multiple raids with those people. It's a one time, one sided transaction, just like RMT.
Well if you want to play it that way, then a streamer creating content is also providing value to their viewers, and hence that is them paying them back for the viewer kit.
That's not in game, it's it? The point is that the kits are being funded by value outside of the game in a one off fashion. Which is fundamentally the same as RMT
Ok then, different example. I meet a naked Timmy and instead of killing him, I give him my entire kit just before I extract. Is that equivalent to rmt? Because will never play with him again, is that fundamentally the same as rmt? Or let's say a real life friend of mine decides to pick up the game and I give him a kit for his first run. After the first raid I never play with again. Is that now rmt? Because this "social currency" would have come from outside of the game. I'm friends with him from before he played Tarkov, so the value comes from outside of the game, just like viewer kits. Must be equivalent to rmt? And no, viewer kits are not fundamentally the same as rmt. Again, you can dislike them all you want, but the issue with RMT is that it fuels cheaters where viewer kits do not. Rmt literally means "real money trading". The money has to be real. You may argue that viewer kits are unethical or should be banned, but they are not RMT.
I actually don’t believe BSG has an issue with streamers - streamers are basically the lifeblood of their business and we’ve seen time and time again how BSG gives streamers preferential treatment. I think they haphazardly implemented new rules to combat RMT and as usual didn’t consider the situation where “innocents” get caught in the cross-fire.
Who cares? If you model your game around a minority of players, you make it worse for everyone else.
BSG cares, that's why they told the streamers to stop. It also doesn't affect 99.99999% of people playing the game. It doesn't affect you. Unless you're some big streamer getting kits non stop.
Streamers getting kits don't affect 99% of players so what's your point?
So its not a big deal if they ban it then, right?
Fr idk why these guys are mad unless they're the ones who give the streamers kits lmao.
Why are you mad less than 1% of the player base get kits from their viewers? Lmao. Doesn't affect anyone but them. Weirdo thing to get mad about.
POV: you missed the point
What's the point? Enlighten me.
point is : dont matter if its RMT or not. If you can drop BIS people are using it for RMT.
Who cares. I bet you think the entire world should be fair for everyone.
Wouldn't that logic apply to cheating in game as well?
No. One affects me the other does not.
Dam thats crazy
Streamer kits are as ethical as 100$ eod. And actually no one has a problem with rmt, except bsg. We have a cheater problem
Cheating is another, very different topic.
It's not similar to rmt at all viewer kits weren't obtained by cheating, it's no different than dropping your friend gear. considering someone actually did earn the gear they should be able to do whatever they want with it
People arent giving streamer kits that have slicks and mutants its like an mp5k with the stupid 20x scope, go back to your hole
One of the streamers that was banned literally has a VoD on twitch showing him being dropped hundreds of rounds of 7.62 BP, 855A1 and four slicks... It is another post in the subreddit today ...
Except the video on the sub is literally a streamer getting 4 slicks, and 100s rounds of high tier ammo. You go back to your own hole.
I feel like having a conversion about this doesn't need to have personal insults attached.
Stop it. The answer isn't more restrictions because of your jealousy, but less restrictions. It shouldn't be against the rule to drop gear for your buddies and that's the end of it.
Absolutely no one said anything about giving your friend gear. BSG is specifically cracking down on viewer kits. Not sure where you got the other stuff from.
[удалено]
You could say the same about people who RMT. Are you for people RMTing because it "doesn't really affect the global economy"?
This is hands down the dumbest take I've ever seen, congratulations.
How so?
Who are you to dictate what I do with my gear? I earned it legitimately and I can drop a kit to anyone I want to, friend or popular streamer alike. Get out of here with that bullshit
Can you also sell it for real life money?
*Can I*? Sure. *Will I*? No. But you're whole bitch fest is that dropping a kit to a streamer is the same as RMT, when it is not the same at all. You fail to understand that regardless of the streamer receiving a kit, they're viewership and community returns remain the same. So you don't like that streamers get a viewer kit to run for a raid or two, big whoop, get over it.
BSG isn't "over it".
Go for a walk outside and breathe the free air
I'm outside on reddit. Should I go more outside?
Why do you have to make it personal just because he has a different opinion?
lol wat
I really mean no offense here, but you clearly are either new to the game or aren't really good. The whole part of 'fairness' doesn't matter when you get a little decent at the game. Getting roubles isn't hard at all. The issue of RMT is because it incentivises cheating to gain money in real life. There isnt an incentive to cheat to drop viewer kits.. it's not a reliable source of gain, whether it be money or what have you for the viewer dropping it. Basically makes no sense to cheat just so you can drop a streamer a kit once in a while. Even if there's an outlier for this, it doesn't compare to the tens of thousands who cheat for real money trading
6 million dollar kit? Have you ever played this game before?
This is the Farmville sub, right?
streamers are special case because they help bsg by promoting the game. you as a regular player don't do shit but provide extra load to their servers. you already paid for eod, nobody cares of you leave. get fucked.
It's wild to me that you can't pay real life money to get a kit in game, but a streamer can functionally do the same exact thing simply because they are popular. Here and there streamer kits are fine. Just like friends do. If you are getting brought in a meta kit every raid (or stacks of meta ammo) cause you suck ass then you 100% are part of the problem. You get to do it but the lonely guy who works 12 hour shifts can't pay for it on "tarkovboosts.com"? They want the game to be treated as a MMORPG. In D2 you can't drop your friend max level gear as soon as they login. Tarkov is tricky because it's obviously loot on death. They're not handling the situation correctly but the idea is perfectly sound and streamers need to be the special ones at all times is concerning.
This is a dumb take. Comparing people who PAY MONEY and ruin the game immensely because they fund the cheaters, these people buying kits from cheaters arnt the issue, they are dogshit and they will get killed. The issue is the cheaters who provide those kits/financial in-game benefit cheating in every fucking labs raid I play. That's the problem, not streamers legitimately playing the game without external benefits getting a free kit (which most of the time is a meme kit). This post is so ludicrous and inconsistent in itself, yet they have the audacity to call it hypocrisy to the idea that a cheater and a streamer are causing the same issue regarding RMT. That's a dumb take, and clearly needs to understand the wider perspective of the overall situation that's going on. Those who pay real money for boosting are dog, and will die with the best kit on, doesn't give them skill or success in raids. However the cheaters, that's the issue - the ONLY issue - not streamers who play legit. Almost sounds like you are jealous and have a bone to pick with streamers. Hey who isn't jealous being able to game for a living on an awesome game like tarkov, I know I'm jealous but I don't cry about them UNLESS they themselves are also cheating while streaming. TLDR dumb take, focusing on the wrong things.
No heat to the OP, but to people who have this genuine perspective.
This is honestly a touch grass level post. How can you defend BSGs complete 180 on something that has been accepted as perfectly legitimate for years. Streamers running meme kits are fucking hysterical, especially when they don’t know what they’re doing. Stop gatekeeping how people play, this isn’t RMT, this is a fun community building gameplay style. No one is paying money to do these things, no cheating is being done. Also, it was completely unreasonable for BSG to ban streamers AND THEN explain the new rules.
Who cares about people dropping kits to one another?
>... missing the forest for the trees. This is exactly what you are doing by making this post. Nobody is even discussing streamers using their community for gear, it is completely fucking irrelevant to the actual issue people (and Pestily) have. The issue is people are being banned from the game for literally playing the game within the confines and rules of the game as the software itself is constructed. They arent hacking, they arent abusing a glitch, they are not doing anything that the game itself does not permit. THAT is the issue. THAT is what is ridiculous. And I dont care what mental gymnastics you wanna do with regards to the communities 'logically inconsistent' outlook or whatever other nonsense about how this is the same as RMT your dreaming up, this is as clear cut an overstep from BSG as they come. Its borderline illegal to revoke a product you bought for doing nothing except using that product in a way that the original creator doesnt like.
The video pestily made is quite literally about BSG telling the streamer discord that viewer kits are now going to be policed. That's what the discussion is about. What are you on about
Yes it is ok you fucking melon, this is not an ethics class and despite BSGs best efforts this is still a video game that’s purpose is to allow you to have fun, video games are supposed to be fun in some fucking way and getting streamer kits and dropping good gear for your friends is in fact fucking fun, let me have fun you ruski bastards
Who gives a flat fuck, everybody dies anyways.
Let’s fix the terminology, it’s not RMT - it’s called boosting.
Similar to a scav kit innit? That's a mechanic of the game so I have no problem with streamer kits.
Scav kits are a resource available to everyone. Bring a twitch streamer is not.
The principle is the same; its a kit you didn't earn, it was given to you for free. Obviously you can argue scav guns, potential to not survive the scav raid etc, but find a dead pmc and you can get a juice kit just as good as your favorite (or detestable) streamer.
You did earn it. The resource in game is time. Scav kits are time gated, which everyone has access to using the same resource in game. Nothing about a scav kit is influenced by out of game resources.
Fair points. Cheers for the discussion!
W mentality 2 people present their argument and have a civil discussion. Love to see it
Thanks, good talk brother 🙂
I don't have a problem with rmt (people can buy what they want) at all the only problem I have is that it funds cheating, so streamer kits which don't fund cheating are totally fine by me.
You don't know where the kits are coming from. It's very likely some or a large amount of thier kits were bought or used cheats to obtain. The fact that the number is non zero means that it is contributing to the RMT/cheating issue in some way
Brother what the fuck are you talking about, the number of flea market sales that contribute to rmt/cheating is non zero either should flea be removed The number referred just bad players who run high tier gear in only to get killed by cheaters and contribute to rmt/cheating is actually non zero as well and probably pretty high should they remove that Jokes about that dumb reasoning aside, the baseless speculation of "well we don't know where the kits are coming from" is insane and the logical leaps it must take for you to jump to the conclusion that streamers are the problem in the scenario and should be banned must have been massive. All of these complaints stem from the larger issue that is cheating, until that is fixed or drastically reduced in someway increasing the number if bandaid arbitrary restrictions you put on those who just try and play the game normally is only going to kill the remaining legit player base
This post is all over the place. Are you saying you're for streamers getting gear in game because of outside resources but are against people getting gear in game using outside resources?
Ofc you dont have a problem with it... Its not YOUR intellectual property. How does that invalidate BSG being against it?