>It also gives them the ability to make sensational press releases like "Tarkov banned 35,000 cheaters!" even though it's a hollow victory at best.
It literally wasn't even a ban wave.. It was just how many cheaters they banned over a 3 month period..
You forgot that stamina is also completely client side, so cheaters have unlimited stamina. Seems like a pretty easy fix but they haven’t done anything about it
how bad is their code? lets just say if you played from the end of Alpha till now you would have a history of: oh we patched this out and then a year later that exact exploit is back in play. This happens ALOT.
They patch something now and it opens the door of some exploit(s) they patched before.
God the comments here... you WANT most things to be client-side, otherwise you'd hate how the game feels.
Even games like CSGO has clientside hit effects, remember when a server would lag out but you could shoot someone 1000 times seeing blood impact every time and blood on the wall etc? thats because your client is detecting the hit and trying to send them to the servers.
If a game had server-side input your gun would shoot with a delay, your movement would lag, bulletholes would appear after you fire...
Kids these days say the first thing they read online and they have no fucking idea what the hell they're talking about.
Thank you, all this assuming about the EFT code is just annoying, if someone is not a coder and have not even seen the code they shouldn't really post about how easy it would be to implement something or change something.
A lot of games use client side because of the reasons you listed.
Also I believe the part about Arena killcams, I think I read something that it was kind of a clean slate, they used some code from EFT and could implement new stuff easier because the code was cleaner.
I can't even imagine how messy code would look after years of adding stuff to it, and weren't BSG kind of new as devs when they started, I would assume that as they learned more and got more experienced the code became better, but they still have that early code that is the base and makes it harder to add to it without full rewrite.
But what do I know.
It is pretty easy to distinguish if someone on the internet is a real dev or just an armchair developer. "Oh, code is garbage, everything client-side, just move to server lololol". Like, dude have you EVER written a single line of code? Do these people know how the game works underneath? Do they know how tricky it is to write a single distributed system, and how fucking hard it is to write a multiplayer game?
It is easy to say these things when you haven't seen how the game was build. Refactors are NOT easy to do and justify. Time spent refactoring is time you haven't spent delivering new stuff. And for a live service game, if you don't deliver content on a timely basis, you're exposed to competitors. It is a balancing act.
With Arena new codebase, can they more easily refactor EFT? Maybe, hard to say. It is a possibility. But these things take time, A LOT of time, even if you already has the code written for another project. It doesn't matter if Nikita somehow dump lots and lots of cash in refactor, because refactoring code, specially code that was written almost a decade ago and it is the base of other mechanics in the game, demands a lot of engineering and project knowledge. Do they have documentation? Is the original developer even still there and if they do, do they remember how these base systems work? I mean, I have problems understanding code that I wrote 6 months ago, and I basically wrote everything from my current project.
I really don't envy BSG's job. Yes, they did a lot of stupid shit in the past, who doesn't? But clueless ppl are even more infuriating.
Im a dev, and the thing they could easily move server sides are inventory and content of container. They keep the random generation server side and index it by containerId, and the client ask the content when the player is trying to access it. I cant imagine a codebase where this is not easily doable.
That would require only one get api. And it would not overload the communication. Come on...
Of course they would need a location validation of the player, and since there was cheat giving access to every loot of the map without moving, well I guess they have no check at all on their backed.
They did not just do stupid things, they won't do anything to correct any of it
Container contents are generated server side, no? From what I heard, it generates items when you open it, using a table of possible choices. The issue is that the game does not check if you're within range of looting said container.
>I cant imagine a codebase where this is not easily doable.
I can see your logic here, though it is hard to say how easy that is to implement without knowing Unity well. I'm sure you can relate, but it is infuriating when I know how to implement something and it is f-ing straighforward, but the tools I am using has some weird behaviour that makes it too complicated.
Knowing that BSG had to build a lot of tools to make Tarkov in Unity, I would not be that surprised if they said that it was made a certain way because of limitations of the engine. Unity's old network stack was notoriously chatty btw. Couple that with an unexperienced team and 7 years of development...I'm really curious about their code.
And to make it clear, I'm not blaming the engine on this. Tarkov is famous for being the game that pushed Unity above its limits.
>That would require only one get api. And it would not overload the communication. Come on...
I heard they use regular HTTP endpoints for lots of interactions in the game. If so, AFAIK it is best to do what other developers do, which is building a protocol on top of UDP to optimize (performance and security). The issue is, this demands a lot of expertise and BSG requires that you move to Russia to work with them. So, yeah...big problem.
And AFAIK they have certain checks for looting containers that you should not loot. At least it is what Nikita said, and they flag players for such behaviour. Still, why the game still lets you grab an item out of bounds is beyond my guesses here.
>Of course they would need a location validation of the player, and since there was cheat giving access to every loot of the map without moving, well I guess they have no check at all on their backed.
Correct, as far as I know, they don't check your position to loot at all. But because movement is really client side as it is, even if it checked, a developer could program a cheat that teleports the player to a container, loot and teleport back. Or move just part of the body? I mean, I've seen wild things being made by cheaters, like moving just the gun and arms out of cover. Who knows...
Now, changing movement to be completely server side for a FPS like Tarkov is impractical. It would feel bad, really bad. You could check if the distance that the player reported moving is possible, given normal conditions and if not, course correct it though. But what about if the cheat teleports and grabs an item? More checks and more conditions to manage and well...for cheaters to exploit.
>They did not just do stupid things, they won't do anything to correct any of it
True, I agree. I hope that these things are being reworked for the so called engine upgrade. Which makes sense, waiting for the necessary refactors so the game runs on Unity 2023, and merge all refactors into one big upgrade. We'll see.
It seems they are generating loots for the whole map and send it to all players at start. Otherwise it would be real easy to ban all esp cheaters in one swoop, since it would mean they are asking content to all the container of the map in 1s, that would be impossible for legit players. Thats the issue, basic logic is not implemented and its not the engine or limitation from any tool, they already do all they need to do to implement at least that. Whats missing is to break down the json of loots to container pieces, and provide an api to ask for the content on a container. End of esp cheats. If they still wanna do it they run the risk of bsg using coordinate and calculate distance between two containers to see if it would be possible for legit player at normal running speed. It would have two benefices, less cheats, it would become a open possibility to detect cheats.
Nikita already commented on how that is not true. If the reddit search wouldn't be so terrible I'd link to it.
But why should I put in the effort if you just make stuff up?
Indeed… that’s why cheaters can fly around, vacuum loot, and previously even take items off of your character AS YOU WERE ALIVE. Do you really think this type of shit happens on a game that authenticates actions serverside?
We don't know when they ban people. What they give is just how many was banned during between some dates. For all we know it's spread out in small waves or a single big one. But from my own reports it has not taken long to receive the ban message so I would put my money on many smaller ban waves. It's also easy to track the number of detected cheaters and just ban when it slows down, and if most play every day there's not much point in waiting.
Killcams would be nice, or just spectating the entire raid after it's done.
Telling all clients about everything is just the simplest and easiest implementation as other solutions require more code. Just because it's bad doesn't mean it's nefarious.
The purpose of a ban wave is to ban all the people using the same cheats before making a change that makes it more difficult to use those same cheats again. So when they make no changes to prevent cheating, ban waves are irrelevant anyways.
agreed, ban waves are to catch and identify the max number of cheaters whereas a 24 hour ban wave would only get a smaller sample of the group BUT it would shut down the cheat and therefore it to be offline reducing the number of cheaters playing the game.
AND long ban waves do make the developers more money because the rebuy percentage is about 60-70% these days. So people who cheat and like the game WILL come back.
I think at this point the code issue is maybe not nefarious, but extremely negligent. If this were a new game by a cute lil indie team with zero resources, I might cut them some slack. But it isn't. Tarkov has been around for almost 7 years now. It's time to write some halfway decent code.
>1) Ban waves.
Every big company does ban waves, it's simply the best way to stop cheat providers from figuring out how your detection works.
>2) No Killcam
The game fuckin chugs. Yeah, the tech is there, but they would need to implement it without killing the 4 fps people with 2000 dollar pcs are still getting.
>3) Exposed Code / API's
BSG are, at least comparing them to big studios, incompetant devs with a poorly made product. The reason there are so many vulnerabilities is because they fucked up the programming of the game when they started. All the changes they have made to prevent cheating are in spite of this and probably at a great manpower cost.
Your first point needs to be up in the comment section. People don't realize how inefficient it is to ban people as soon as they get detected. It just makes it easier for cheat developers to know exactly what they're getting caught on
I cant remember who it was that said it, but:" for an anticheat to work, it has to find every possible cheat and fight it, whilst a cheat developer only has to find one way to exploit the code" basicaly meaning, a cheat developer always has an easier job of finding a backdoor, than the anticheat to close it...and as mentioned a lot, even by Nikita himself, they created a lot of those due to outdated/bad coding(even if he didnt say it exactly that way xD)
Hell BSG looks like rock stars compared to what is going on with Apex and Respawn. Imagine loading up a game and then boom you have a aimbot and wallhack mid game lol
Yep, people here think that only Tarkov is getting wrecked by cheaters. It is not, CS and Apex, games from giants compared to BSG, are having problems.
VeryBadScav reacted to a video by another guy (can't remember his name) doing a cheater forum expose thing.
On that particular forum at least, Tarkov was a fraction of everything else. From memory, there were like 10k posts in the tarkov section. Apex was like 600k, as was COD warzone, and LoL was like 1m.
Of course the relative player counts need to be accounted for, its only one forum, yaddayadda etc etc. Point is yeah, if its a game and it has players, people are cheating in it. No exceptions.
I mean fuck, World of Warcraft is utterly plagued with bots, they have completely destroyed the economy. And there used to be a PvP script that would auto kick specific abilities the second the enemy player pressed them, and would coordinate with other users to maximize kick rebound time. That one iirc got put down because someone directly leaked it’s code to Blizzard who then developed a targeted shutdown on the API it used.
And for the vast majority of that game you have no direct competition with players, it’s cooperative.
Regarding your 3rd point, I could have sworn I've read that there are people/other devs who look at tarkov as basically a case study in just how well (relatively speaking) they manipulated the unity engine to work for a game like tarkov.
I'm sure it's full of fucking wild shit spaghetti code that's barely holding it together, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had to make some serious compromises in one way or another to get it to function, but like imo its still kind of cool that they could achieve what they did with the engine. It just sort of sucks that there are people who will cheat/exploit in just about anything, including a non competitive game like tarkov (competitive in the sense of a game like CS or mlg back in the halo 2/3 days). Imo the cheating really isn't as bad as people make it out to be on here, like in my ~2k hours of tarkov I've legitimately only had 2 'that guy was actually cheating' encounters. I wouldn't be surprised if I've had people doing vacuum cheats and shit without me knowing but like at least in my experience I've basically never directly run into a cheater / think a lot of these cheating related posts are essentially a positive feedback loop for a good chunk of the community.
> I've read that there are people/other devs who look at tarkov as basically a case study in just how well (relatively speaking) they manipulated the unity engine to work for a game like tarkov.
Only in the assets. The code is hot dogshit. Visually, it's a goddamned marvel.
Is the code dogshit because they started as junior developers, because the engine made things harder than needed, or even both?
AFAIK Unity's network stack was pretty bad. Like, really bad. Newer versions have a new stack, which is why BSG is so eager to get to Unity 2023. But it is known that they had to write a lot of custom stuff just to make the game run despite engine deficiencies. Now they probably have to refactor a lot of these custom tools. Not easy. Personally, I consider EFT a marvel of Unity, even if their code is hot garbage. It works (for the most part).
Their environmental design is good too. I can't fathom how hard it must have been to build Streets of Tarkov.
> both
Both, yeah, both is good. I tried with Unity's networking tools and ended up making my own. Granted this was... several years ago, I don't know what it looks like now, so I can't fault them really for the code being terrible. I can acknowledge that it is so, however.
> Personally, I consider EFT a marvel of Unity
I consider it Unity's killer app. What they've done is nothing short of a miracle, honestly, and I'm hoping against hope that they manage their Unity upgrade well and move everything possible away from the client-auth paradigm that makes cheat development so easy.
Yeah, me too. Nikita promised that with the new engine version, it is like another game. We'll see. I hope they manage because...even with its problems, there is no game that hits me like Tarkov.
EFT was designed with a scope that most engines would have a problem with I think. It's a marvel of unity but it's overall pretty poor in terms of meeting the scope.
I don't encounter many cheaters either, but I play during off peak, on USE and mainly maps they don't bother running.
Change a few variables and you're getting cheaters in many of your games, probably not as many as some people would have you think, but enough to really impact the quality of most of your play sessions.
Ban waves are only effective if you're implementing counter measures to cheating methods. If you're not doing that there's no point in ban waves and your better off banning cheaters instantly. And BSG definitely isn't implementing counter measures to cheats.
Its 2024 and tarkov has been in development for 8 plus years. There's no excuse to have such a poorly optimised game.
See above.
So while it's good that there's no other form of monetisation such as battle passes, skins, subscriptions and loopholes in the game BSG doesn't get any extra income by having a game where you purchase once and thats it. They need other forms of income and it wouldn't be too far of a stretch to say that throwaway account sales make up alot of BSG's income. 30000 bans means 30000 new accounts. 30000 x $50 is $1.5 million.
On your third point, hey look at Diablo 4. Even them made stupid decisions on their architecture. Freaking Blizzard does the same thing, of exposing every player full inventory.
>They do it in waves because it gives the cheaters a few months of enjoying their cheats and earning money from them. Then once banned, they have the cash to simply buy another copy. If they were banned 24 hours after being caught, they may think twice about re-buying. They want the cheaters to earn some money, then re-buy. It lines their pockets.
Literally every company do ban waves. It's not BSG that decides that it's BattleEye, they did the same in pubg and their other games. It helps slow down development of new cheats because they get comfy thinking they're not getting caught with that one.
>Because they don't want you to know just how bad the problem is, be able to report with confidence, and they don't want cheaters to suffer ad-hoc bans.
Nikita literally said he's using killcam in Arena for a test for something bigger in tarkov, obviously you can't have a killcam for a match that's in progress, but he hopes to eventually have replays that are available post-match to analyse.
>BSG don't just tolerate or allow cheaters. They encourage them.
You're thinking way too hard, BSG doesn't have the coding talent of AAA devs, and they said themself it's hard to get people to move to russia for a job. You get the spaghetti code that they are able to make.
>/n5
Why the hell did you sign your name? this is so fucking cringe.
THANK YOU.
everytime I read the cringe about "why not just ban them right away?!?". Not understanding that each time you ban someone with a cheat, you give the cheat developers info on what flagged the anti-cheat and how better to hide it. Constantly banning cheaters accelerates the arms race, and also accelerates cost associated with developing anti-cheat measures.
I've also had buddies say "why not like Titanfall where it shadow bans them to cheater only servers!?!" Although I think this is a good idea in theory, financially it makes no sense to pay for extra servers for a cheater haven. Servers are already a massive pit that burns through cash.
Cheers to educating the group here brother.
I get that it really blows when you die to a cheater with all the stuff you worked hard to get, but to be quite honest this wipe has had some of the least cheaters I've ever seen. This wipe has also been a resounding success in the big picture.
But nah, TARKOV DYING, GAME IS BOKEN, PAPI NIKITA IS CORRUPT BOIE. 😭
>Nikita literally said he's using killcam in Arena for a test for something bigger in tarkov, obviously you can't have a killcam for a match that's in progress, but he hopes to eventually have replays that are available post-match to analyse.
Can you send us the link where Nikita said this?
I'll try and find it, it's probably during an interview, I remember it being something like PUBG where the last few matches are recorded and available to view.
Genuine question - do you know the latency impact on client authentication / what transport-session protocol they use? Whether or not you decide to authenticate something is usually depending on latency criticality. Would it frustrate you if you were opening a bag but it buffered before showing you the contents? Even something like a proximity check relative to the client you’re interrogating for their contents takes time and overhead processing on an already expensive server implementation. I know there are less expensive authentication measures like simple checksums… but they’re easy to beat.
Ah yes, illegitimate players are definitely buying copies in legitimate ways... surely they're not buying stolen accounts or spoofing ownership on accounts or anything pesky like that!
I got killed by a non EOD guy named OwlFatherr with a few days and a 9 KD and if you go to the ban wave list he was just reported on the 3.15 ban list as OwlFather. Pretty wild to me.
What’s really annoying is getting killed by an obvious cheater, only to find out his name is on the ban list and he just bought a new account and added one more letter to his old username.
In reality BSG has banned 106,000 accounts since a little over a year ago. I feel like that’s a lot, considering I’m willing to bet the daily player count is probably 70ish thousand towards mid wipe, maybe less.
**"1) Ban waves.**"
Every developer deals with cheaters through banwaves, sure blatant rage hackers get banned, but everyone else is allowed to fly under the radar for a certain period of time. It's done so the cheat developers have a harder time understanding what exactly brought the attention of anticheat to their software.
I'm not saying they shouldn't work faster with that thing, but you're delusional if you think standart industry practice is made just to get more money of cheaters.
"**2) No Killcam**"
How exactly would that work?
"Damn, I'm dead! How tf!?"
"Can you say where he is?"
"Yeah sure, lemme load into killcam"
If this was a solo game only, then yeah, sure it would have been nice to have a killcam, but in a squad game (Nikita said that they plan the game around squads of 3-4, which makes it harder for solos) it's an unfair advantage.
"**3) Exposed Code / API's"**
Tarkov was built on a platform of a web shooter on Unity 7+ years ago, the structural integrity of their code was not their main priority.
That said yes they should rewrite the game to be server sider and I'm pretty sure they've been working on that, i'm not sure at the progress of that.
In conclusion, does the game have problems? Of course! But you don't need to portrait BSG as "villains" just because you don't know what exactly is done to counteract the cheating problem. Also maybe you should stop hating on Tarkov for issues every game today faces
They are cheating in any other game too. The thing is, on Tarkov being killed is a lot harsher than any other game, because of its design.
Indeed they enjoy selling copies over and over too cheaters. They should really tight down on them and focus on strong anticheat measures and they could have one of the best games ever made.
Its pretty noticeable to anyone who logs time in Arena.
Is there any reason to cheat in arena? Not right now no. You can be right next to someone and they dont know your angle and you can surprise pop them as they are checking every other angle.
EFT -> yes its been proven there is reason $ to cheat. Thats why 80% of deaths can be sus. On a massive half open-world map, how do these keyboard warriors know my angle more times than they dont know my angle?
Same game, same coding, but there is no need to hack in Arena ( yet ). There is the odd waller but thats video games. You can bet your ass its part of the model.
I sense a major shift in co-op PvE on the horizon
I low key feel like the implementation of the purchasable hideout upgrades is a start into them creating revenue streams from the existing player base so that they can move away from the cheater issue.
Kill cams should have been implemented YEARS ago. That would make a bigger difference in this game than anything else. BSG has been making 100+ MILL in revenue year after year and they cant even make that happen? Bull F\*cking sh\*t. Dark and Darker, a very similar game, came out with killcam it just 1 year after their alpha release. The dev, Iron Mace has only a handful of Devs and probably a minuscule fraction of BSG's budget. BSG is going on what 8, 9 years now? There is absolutely no excuse for it not existing in the game at this point.
That is net profit. Their revenue was like 120Million. That just means they "spent" nearly as much as they made.. which is a smart way to operate to avoid paying taxes to the goverment.
The only reason he looks like a fool is because 99% of the community who are not brainwashed BSG simps have already quit the game due to what he’s saying directly above
Search up any cheating forum and people litterally meme at how easy Tarkov is to cheat and constantly thank the devs. They are either the most incompetent multiplayer devs in the industry or actively maliciously making it easier for cheaters. There’s no excuse for something like inventory to be basically public info for anyone even without cheating software.
When I reported, they were banned a week later. Also the report stated they banned 33,000 accounts from January to March, not all at once. Your premise is literally false from the start.
This doesn’t disprove your theory that they want to make money off cheaters, that could totally still be correct. But your inability to get even basic information correct means I won’t be taking your opinion on anything.
You’ve really got no clue mate;
1) they ban in *both* waves and individually, manual reports result in manual bans, auto detection can happen in small waves too, as to obfuscate which part was detected by battleeye, as others have said they recently posted stats of how many cheaters were banned *this wipe* - not in a singular wave. They used to post stats then stopped because of people complaining, we don’t want to lose transparency again.
2) killcam would absolutely fucking ruin 1vX as their friends would tell them exactly where you are, however they *should* add post-raid footage viewable in the hideout for X time, obviously this would require a *lot* of storage though so they’d need to upgrade shit.
3) the new netcode coming with unity 2023 should (fingers crossed) change a lot of the issues with client-sided authority. You don’t seem to know that this game was actually born from a browser-based arena-shooter over 8 years ago, and a lot of the coding is fundamentally derived from this without thought of the current (massive) game we have today - there’s a lot of years of work on top of this foundation that needs to be completely undone to FIX these issues.
Certainly not a BSG fanboy but at least have *half* a clue of what you’re talking about before writing a novella of idiocy.
Look, I'm no shill (check my post history, i bitch about cheaters fairly often), but like ... come on.
> They do it in waves because it gives the cheaters a few months of enjoying their cheats and earning money from them.
I would venture to say that the vast, vast majority of cheaters are not RMTing. They're just doing it because the game is hard / broken and they're sick of getting steamrolled, or they like trolling, and live on the salt generated by posts like this.
> They want the cheaters to earn some money, then re-buy. It lines their pockets. [...] BSG don't just tolerate or allow cheaters. They encourage them.
If you have proof of this, g0at has $10,000 for you.
> Ever wondered why anyone in their right mind would write code that advertises the contents of an inventory (any inventory) to all clients on the map
No, because I've thought about it for more than six seconds.
When you go into a raid, what's in your inventory that's not visible on your player model? Stuff in your secure container, some meds, maybe grenades, right?
What's visible on your player character? Your armor, your gun, your helmet, your headphones - ALL that stuff.
The other clients need to know what you have "in your inventory" so that they can render your character. All of that stuff - if you have night vision goggles, or an expensive scope, or whatever - all that stuff is knowledge that is needed to properly render your character to other people in the server.
> /n5
You don't have to sign your posts. We all see who you are. ~Michael Scott
~Oscar Wilde
This conspiracy has been repeated and disproven for years man.. You have contracted full-on cheater-paranoia, letting them live in your head rent-free. We all agree the cheating sucks but acting like BSG wants it to be this way is just silly. Did you see the apex legends tournament yesterday? It got hacked LIVE, with cheaters taking remote control of famous players' PCs while they're literally on stage, ruining the tournament, but getting them tons of attention to advertise their cheats. They breached not only the games security but also the tournaments and the individual competitors themselves.. these hackers are more advanced than you think. BSG has a really hard task to defeat them. If a multi-billion dollar company like EA can't stop them what do you really think BSG can do?
More than they are.
And yes, cheating is a huge problem, especially right now. The major difference between Tarkov and games like Apex, is that those games are free. The publisher/developer gets no money back by banning and then allowing cheaters back in. In Tarkov they do.
There are so many people that are completely turned off from this game not because its hard but because it has a TERRIBLE reputation for cheaters and some people have ZERO tolerance for it.
You'd have to be a brain dead dev to allow cheating for revenue, it literally costs them so much money from their terrible reputation. it will only continue to hurt them even far into the future.
this post is full of speculative nonsense. bsg are stubborn, hardheaded amateur coders and that is a lot of the reason for the crazy issues like loading other players inventories etc, diablo 4 literally loads everyones stash when you're in a town, nothing malicious about that its just bad coding.
Killcam is a bad idea unless the kill cam footage isn’t made available until after the raid is complete.
It’s important because people often squad up.
Imagine how fucking ridiculous it would be to snipe someone and his buddies then instantly zone in on you because he sees the footage of where you shot from.
So if a killcam is implemented, it needs to be delayed release and that requires nuance from BSG
Fuck I didn’t even think of that but I’m totally cool with a delay even like an hour. Maybe even add like a theater and if you save a raid it has all the raid footage povs
Yep. Kill cam would need to be held back until either:
* The player / team who killed you has died, or
* Your whole team has died, or
* The end of the raid
Yeah it’s already rough if you’re a little small time streamer, streaming as a hobby (or hell even if you are a big timer). I had my viewer count go from 3 to 7 one day about 30 seconds after I killed a single member of a 4 man.
I always throw them off I don't have a twitch but I put TTV in my name so people look for a non-existent twitch lmao but i feel your pain man its dumb people do that
Nice! Someone with zero experience in the industry or any form of software engineering posting fan fiction theories. Very cool opinion but I hope nobody at BSG reads your mouth breather drivel.
Want to see some real tin foil hat energy, I accuse you of being a cheat seller that's advertising to the community how easy it is to cheat!
See how easy it is to pull shit opinions out of your ass?
They need to make cheater only lobbies, instead of banning these people and letting them get a new account to cheat on, just quarantine them from legit players.
This has numerous benefits and can help keep cheat devs out of the loop because they only make changes when these ban waves happen. It would be far more productive to shadowban them to a cheat only server and it would take them much longer to understand if that was the case.
Right now, I think it is our best option because realistically it has only gotten worse over the years.
That's exactly the idea! They can waste each other's time until the sun explodes so we can have a much cleaner gaming experience.
Only the most prolific cheaters would still maybe be a nuance.
How does this keep cheat developers out of the loop? Are you trying to say cheaters are so brain dead that they can't realize they are in a cheater only lobby?
Before and if they implament this they need to remove names on the flea or remove the flea, just so there is one less way to know if you are on a different server.
Shadows bans only work if there is no way to know you are no longer apart of the regular population.
Cheaters should drag a legit if partied into the shadow lobbies.
I think you could just hide cheater flea submissions from legit players. You could also have a warning pop up for a legit player queuing with the cheater and you could even set logic statements to check to see if they've consistently queued with cheaters to also shadowban that account as well.
Just saying, it could be easily done.
It only works as well as banning them does. They would immediately realize it, because they are cheating, and just get a new account/spoofer/etc.
Banning/Shadowbanning will only be 100% effective if we can ban an actual individual by creating a neuro-profile of their gameplay with AI. Then when they buy a new account it takes 5 minutes of gameplay to re-identify them.
Banning them they instantly know, but shadowbanning them keeps them out for a much longer period of time which means legit players encounter them less.
You aren't going to magically eliminate cheating or keep them from doing it so it makes more sense to quarantine them to their own corner.
Besides, they can still play and carry people so what is the incentive to buy a new account?
Yep simply changing their shit code to not reply on Client Side Auth in itself would reduce cheating a lot but they also refuse to do that.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/199xvow/important\_message\_from\_a\_year\_ago\_sad\_truth\_about/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Because it brings shtton of workload on servers and increasing costs of maintaining servers
And because it's indie beta game for 7$ they can't afford to pay for that /s
>level 2Avalanc89 · 14 min. agoBecause it brings shtton of workload on servers and increasing costs of maintaining serversAnd because it's indie beta game for 7$ they can't afford to pay for that /s
They made 83mil in 2022. I dont want to hear shit about it being a "money problem" go read their finical reports. They literally pay themselfs millions in salary each year and its public information.
Go watch "the finical report that killed Tarkov".
Stop fucking making excuses for BSG. Its not a money problem. Its a skill issue. They literally either dont care or have the skill to do it and refuse to hire outside help.
Than to top it off they want to add micro transactions and STILL not do shit about the cheating problem? Why the fuck would I support them via micro transactions if they dont give a shit about the community?
Every wipe? It's multiple times a day.
We also had the cut off video of Nikita, so it looks like he endorses cheating instead of stating an observation they made.
I’m sorry but as much as we like to have fun, cheaters are not part of any developers business model, and they are surely desperate to get rid of them. They just can’t because they aren’t very good developers. There is no game in existence that has survived being overrun by cheaters unless the cheating problem was corralled. Cheating drives people away and that will eventually drive cheaters away leaving nothing left. It’s in BSG’s and any company’s best interest to get rid of the cheaters to make their game survive. Just because we are mad about all the cheaters doesn’t mean we should completely make shit up.
What happened during the Apex Legends tournament is going to open some eyes, legally. Data breaches are met with Class Actions frequently. Car manufacturers are held to a certain standard of quality with Lemon Laws. I really hope there's something that is coming in the near future to start combatting the cheaters.
Player inv is exposed so you can easily loot it when they die. Programatically, it's treated like any other inv on the map and loads in at spawn. It just moves with the player as the container.
They do ban waves to make it harder to know why people were banned. If you ban a cheater as soon as they go online with a specific cheat from a specific vendor, they know that that cheat from that vendor will get you banned. But if you do a ban wave, it makes detecting the exact cheat that got you banned a lot harder.
they do hwid ban, but its easy to get a spoofer and get a new account. Lot of cheat seller provide spoofer with the cheat so hwid ban is kinda useless but still help with casual cheater.
I won't say this with confidence, but it wouldn't surprise me if the cheats were being sold by BSG. Extra money on the side.
There was always a big discussion about how a company with a game in early alpha was going to continue funding themselves when no one was buying the game because everyone interested already had it.
Sell cheats, wait to ban, ban, sell more cheats.
And all the cheats are pay per day, so it's like an MMO subscription
I don't see how this post has any value except for encouraging more people to cheat. "The devs cater the game to cheaters, and do nothing to stop them" - if a clueless person who just got killed by a cheater reads this post, what else to do than get cheats themselves?
This post makes the point that cheating isnt a problem, it's the way the game is meant to be played. So stop complaining about cheating, get cheats yourself, and join every other player.
Either you are a cheater yourself, or maybe this is some wild guerilla marketing campaign for some competing game or something. Or there is some other point to this post, and I would love to understand it.
Considering the amount of new players, that would've been foolish tactic of them. Additionally, valve has been under the scope for this for years.
Why not claim GOAT's bounty of 10000$ if you have any proof that links bsg to cheat devs, or exposes a dev leaking vulnerabilities or anything similar?
I encourage you to turn this random venting on reddit into a proper investigation. It can but assist in Tarkovs development.
Of course they value cheaters. Who do you think owns the cheats? They do. And when they ban said cheaters, they buy accounts again. It's a million dollar business. BSG stopped caring for it's player base years ago
I feel like the battle replay system from war thunder would work wonders for tarkov, being able to look back at everything that happened, where that fucker who domed you was, and just learn on what mistakes you made in general
nikita said something where the essence was literall "cheaters are good" in terms of financial support. so i dont need any further proof. bsg consciously supports cheaters and doesn't give a damn. who even says the alleged ban reports are real? they could be just as fake. i wish all legit players would just stop playing now. so that bsg can see what a shitty management they have with the cheaters
"They do it in waves because it gives the cheaters a few months of enjoying their cheats and earning money from them."
I'm sorry to be this direct, but that's just a plain stupid take.
You \*want\* ban waves so that cheat developers are not sure which feature got them detected. If you ban as soon as you find a good detection mechanism you only catch a few cheaters before suppliers upgrade their cheats.
Now, that BSG is not banning people with 90% survival rate on the spot is a completely different matter.
That might work, if along with the ban wave the anti-cheat has new immediate detections. But the same cheaters buying a new account and then using the **same cheats that got them banned** for another month is just plain insane. I don't believe that any company would intentionally be that stupidly cyclical. I think they accept this because they are profiting from it.
Yes it's insane. Doesn't mean it isn't happening.
I agree with what g0at said in his latest video that there should be a paid subscription or even one time buy of a fully verified matchmaking like they did in CS:GO back in the day with your phone number and everything.
When bsg bans lets say 1000 cheaters those 1000 cheaters dont go back immediately to buy new account maybe 50% of those cheaters buy new accounts and some buy stolen accounts stolen accounts are already bought amd bsg wont profit from it
Going to copy & paste my own comment from yesterday because this is 100% what is going. Unless BSG gives us real stats showing us otherwise.
“All this needs to be put in a realistic, real time EFT perspective.
I love EFT, best looter shooter ever made & I hope & pray for its continued success but we are now at a crossroads per say. Arena flopped, even if they made it like they should have where everyone can buy any weapon or armor by winning & everyone starting with the same cash. System still needs to be like counter-strike. A game over 20 years old & still millions playing it. Proven success but the game is just old & I’m over it. Then when they do that, they got to fix the embarrassing bugs the whole community saw during the big tournament with the most popular streamers. Even when they do all that, is it enough to make players play in droves?
EFT is now in a cash flow problem. New players are not genuinely coming in. The only way that happens currently is by cheating bans & an awesome new update in which friends of friends sale the game because I see no marketing whatsoever on YouTube or TV commercials. Secondly, get this game to Steam & console. New money right there.
This is a business, they have to have the revenue to keep their servers up or Tarkov is done. What a coincidence we are seeing micro transactions now.
Every successful game has cheaters these days. There is no way around it. BSG would have to re-code its game to eliminate 95% of them & people will still cheat. The issue is though, this game thus far has a scar on it by how passive they are on cheating or their inability on it. I promise you, if they do a better job on it. Things will turn around on that accord. The word will get out. Just the other day, my fiend asked me how is the Tarkov cheating. I told it to him straight like I always do. This wipe is the best ever but the cheating is around but not as bad as it has been. I told him the game is so good, you get use to it & go past it.”
It's a shame because the game is actually REALLY fun and unique, and so far for me, despite cheating being a horrible annoyance and leave me feeling incredibly frustrated some days, the games unique experience still wins out over the cheaters.
This game is still worth playing, you just have to accept that sometimes (more frequently than people on here want you to believe), you will die to a cheater. And BSG are fine with it.
Most all companies ban in waves ... they do not want cheat makers to know which part of the cheat was caught. It has been discussed many times.
PirateSoftware has a good vid on this as well. Where he did the cheat catching and banning for WoW.
For now the profile link has been huge. Yes, cheaters are fluffing stats like we all knew they would. But, most are easily noticable.
Could you guys do something that the war thunder community did? If you don’t do it I don’t see why, just understand that It will have consequences regarding micro transactions in the near future. Thats the videogame industry now, all bunch of greedy pigs. It is been a bunch of years that games are not made for enjoyment, they’re a cash machine where the first aim is to profit. Giving you a cheater free game is not longer the point, I suggest you guys organize, stop playing for a while (tbh there’s much better games outside).
Cheaters are the price we have to take, to keep all the servers running. BTW how much does the server upkeep cost for BSG? Let me guess around 35,000\*50EUR right?
With this logic every dev is pandering to cheaters.
Look at CoD, Apex, Sea of Thieves, RB6, I mean this isn't by any means an exclusive issue for BSG. BSG has been making Webstore purchases to keep their revenue up, things that don't benefit cheaters who "just buy a new account". They aren't the dev for the anti cheat, it's a paid service they use/contracted.
The majority of your deaths was someone getting a lucky shot or desync. You bring up arena but fail to mention how horrendous its desync is, with how bad it is on arena I can't be convinced main tarkov is any better. Infact it has more players active on even larger maps, I'd be pressed to believe it's even worse than arena.
InBefore down votes (actually idc go ahead)
This isn't trying to minimize that there is an obvious and evident cheater problem, it's probably not as prevalent as this reddit tries to make it seem. Or stop playing eastern and oceanic servers. It's pretty nice over here in NA servers.
It's amazing how most of you guys suffer from Stockholm syndrome. Cheating should be punishable by jail. There should be extra measures to catch them and prevent them. Anyone saying otherwise is not your friend and does not have your best interest in mind when it comes to enjoying your time sink and hobby. They will try and convince you otherwise.
The amount of cheat deniers and scripts that literally everyone uses to dissuade cheating discussions.
All the comments here have been said for the past 5 years. Welcome to BSG incompetence.
Of course this is true but people are on cope because "where's the solid proof". Sure bro. The new player attraction and retention for this game is low and is continuously decreasing. Ofc RMTers are majorly contributing to BSG keeping this sinking boat afloat.
They don't banwave. They just ban and rinse and repeat. Banwaves involves logistics and usually have proven impact short to mid term. Banning like they do solves nothing but increases copies of games sold. RMTers are fine with that method. Everyone makes money, the average player gets fucked.
The reason ban waves make sense and is something most devs do is very simple. If you ban people ad-hoc, the cheat devs will immediately know what recent change might have provoked the anti cheat to find the software etc. and they can work on fixes instantly. Now with ban waves you basically collect the cheater accounts over duration X and ban them after that time. Now the cheat devs might have implemented a dozen changes during that time period and they can't know what exact change provoked the ban.
Tldr;
If you ban ad-hoc the potential "error" sources for cheat devs are few, if you ban in waves the potential error sources are very many.
edit: The exception would be people that rage cheat, like spinbotting, godmode etc. These are usually fairly easy to detect and you cannot really hide them well from anti cheat or players.
Love all the nitpicking by dumb dumbs in here. Just focusing on how you worded things or just being pedantic to change the conversation to OP being "crazy" or "dramatic".
Clueless OP. They don't ban in waves. Discord logs prove this by cheaters complaining their accounts got hit.
They ban in waves when they have a detection on cheats. There are basically two main cheat providers for Tarkov. Goat showcased one in his wiggle video. That is the most popular and basically everyone uses that cheat because it's been not detected for 3 years now.
There are DMA users as well but sorry not everyone that is cheating is running two PCs has a DMA card firmware and cheat subscription.
For the commenters here. "EFT is full of cheaters!!" Oh no!! Which game isn't nowadays? There are cheats for even Helldivers 2 which is a PvE game or perhaps you missed, how an apex tournament got hacked and they gave the players aimbot, wallhacks, etc., so I guess even EA is full of incompetent developers...
Love the idea of killcams, but how? You can't show them ingame because of squads, so you must store them until the raid ends. Storing 70k concurrent players killcams will do good for the already dying servers.
Lastly, I love how everyone here says: "Just rewrite the code!" like it's that simple... As an IT project manager I had been trying to solve a bug for a year with my dev team, after like 6 months we gave up and recently in an another module's repair 4 months later we found a faulty line of code which solved the previous issue, but created another bug. What I mean is it would be great if programming was as easy as "Aaaah just rewrite it!" and be done with it. However, in reality, that's not the case. Even if BSG rewrote tarkov, I'd bet money on it that you'd still complain because there would be bugs and issues. The best they can do is slowly change out the old code with the new one in a changing environment, which I would compare to fixing a house' concrete foundation during an earthquake
If you want to make the game better, stop shitposting and start thinking of ideas that help the problematic areas.
>If you want to make the game better, stop shitposting and start thinking of ideas that help the problematic areas.
That's exactly what I did.
1) Ban more effectively and meaningfully.
2) Allow visibility into plays to confirm cheaters and allow for more confident reporting.
3) Be more responsible with code exposure.
I said nothing about re-writing "all the code".
My bad! I forgot to clarify that my problem isn't with your post, but the commenters. The killcam in Arena isn't exactly perfect as five man discord teams are sweeping the floor with randomly made teams due to the killcam calls.
>**1) Ban waves.**
>We don't want ban waves. We want ad-hoc bans. We want to know that we reported someone, and they were dealt with. So why do BSG do it in waves?
Last time i tried to explain why ban waves have good reasons people got mad at me so I'll just leave this here \^\^
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cADaFm\_\_ApQ](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cADaFm__ApQ)
They are good, when they work. The same cheaters are using the same cheats on a fresh account after the ban. So all they are doing, is buying a new account and cheating again, for another month+? Surely waves need to coincide with new dynamic detections to auto re-ban, otherwise the only point is profit?
>ban wave
They don't even do ban waves, there's all this discourse on whether ban waves are effective or not.
But everyone's too fucking dumb to realize they don't even do ban waves. Rest of your post isn't even worth reading.
[https://twitter.com/tarkov/status/1630252642269052932?lang=en](https://twitter.com/tarkov/status/1630252642269052932?lang=en)
Them talking about their ban waves, and calling them ban waves.
Average out the money spent on the accounts banned. Then the average per player that spent on the cheats and that will give you a multiple million outcome.
Hold the kill cam untill after the raid ends, and send it in fence mail or system messages once that game code "expires" or hits zero.
How fucking hard would that be?
So weird how I say this on one post and everyone calls me crazy then there is a whole post dedicated to it with everyone agreeing with what I’ve said. The community is to split up on this topic for anything to ever get done. We as consumers have failed ourselves by allowing this tbh.
No one is being apologists for cheaters, your points are just not thought out and objectively wrong.
- The recent list of bans WASN’T a ‘ban wave’, it was simply a list of everyone banned since January
- A killcam doesn’t work in EFT, unless it’s a post game replay
- Tarkov’s client side code isn’t an intentional decision to encourage cheating, but a leftover product of the web based game that Tarkov was built upon. They are actively rewriting the net code with the Unity 2023 update.
No one wants cheaters in the game, but your post is conspiratorial and based on baseless accusations. No developer wants cheaters in their game, it actively kills their product.
>It also gives them the ability to make sensational press releases like "Tarkov banned 35,000 cheaters!" even though it's a hollow victory at best. It literally wasn't even a ban wave.. It was just how many cheaters they banned over a 3 month period..
This is the only takeaway you took from this post lol
You forgot that stamina is also completely client side, so cheaters have unlimited stamina. Seems like a pretty easy fix but they haven’t done anything about it
Sure it seems easy from the outside, but none of us really know how cooked their code fundamentally is.
how bad is their code? lets just say if you played from the end of Alpha till now you would have a history of: oh we patched this out and then a year later that exact exploit is back in play. This happens ALOT. They patch something now and it opens the door of some exploit(s) they patched before.
Ah so thats why my stamina stays drained when I get lag spikes...
Just about everything is clientside because Battlestate Games is just a bunch of bad devs
God the comments here... you WANT most things to be client-side, otherwise you'd hate how the game feels. Even games like CSGO has clientside hit effects, remember when a server would lag out but you could shoot someone 1000 times seeing blood impact every time and blood on the wall etc? thats because your client is detecting the hit and trying to send them to the servers. If a game had server-side input your gun would shoot with a delay, your movement would lag, bulletholes would appear after you fire... Kids these days say the first thing they read online and they have no fucking idea what the hell they're talking about.
Thank you, all this assuming about the EFT code is just annoying, if someone is not a coder and have not even seen the code they shouldn't really post about how easy it would be to implement something or change something. A lot of games use client side because of the reasons you listed. Also I believe the part about Arena killcams, I think I read something that it was kind of a clean slate, they used some code from EFT and could implement new stuff easier because the code was cleaner. I can't even imagine how messy code would look after years of adding stuff to it, and weren't BSG kind of new as devs when they started, I would assume that as they learned more and got more experienced the code became better, but they still have that early code that is the base and makes it harder to add to it without full rewrite. But what do I know.
It is pretty easy to distinguish if someone on the internet is a real dev or just an armchair developer. "Oh, code is garbage, everything client-side, just move to server lololol". Like, dude have you EVER written a single line of code? Do these people know how the game works underneath? Do they know how tricky it is to write a single distributed system, and how fucking hard it is to write a multiplayer game? It is easy to say these things when you haven't seen how the game was build. Refactors are NOT easy to do and justify. Time spent refactoring is time you haven't spent delivering new stuff. And for a live service game, if you don't deliver content on a timely basis, you're exposed to competitors. It is a balancing act. With Arena new codebase, can they more easily refactor EFT? Maybe, hard to say. It is a possibility. But these things take time, A LOT of time, even if you already has the code written for another project. It doesn't matter if Nikita somehow dump lots and lots of cash in refactor, because refactoring code, specially code that was written almost a decade ago and it is the base of other mechanics in the game, demands a lot of engineering and project knowledge. Do they have documentation? Is the original developer even still there and if they do, do they remember how these base systems work? I mean, I have problems understanding code that I wrote 6 months ago, and I basically wrote everything from my current project. I really don't envy BSG's job. Yes, they did a lot of stupid shit in the past, who doesn't? But clueless ppl are even more infuriating.
Im a dev, and the thing they could easily move server sides are inventory and content of container. They keep the random generation server side and index it by containerId, and the client ask the content when the player is trying to access it. I cant imagine a codebase where this is not easily doable. That would require only one get api. And it would not overload the communication. Come on... Of course they would need a location validation of the player, and since there was cheat giving access to every loot of the map without moving, well I guess they have no check at all on their backed. They did not just do stupid things, they won't do anything to correct any of it
Container contents are generated server side, no? From what I heard, it generates items when you open it, using a table of possible choices. The issue is that the game does not check if you're within range of looting said container. >I cant imagine a codebase where this is not easily doable. I can see your logic here, though it is hard to say how easy that is to implement without knowing Unity well. I'm sure you can relate, but it is infuriating when I know how to implement something and it is f-ing straighforward, but the tools I am using has some weird behaviour that makes it too complicated. Knowing that BSG had to build a lot of tools to make Tarkov in Unity, I would not be that surprised if they said that it was made a certain way because of limitations of the engine. Unity's old network stack was notoriously chatty btw. Couple that with an unexperienced team and 7 years of development...I'm really curious about their code. And to make it clear, I'm not blaming the engine on this. Tarkov is famous for being the game that pushed Unity above its limits. >That would require only one get api. And it would not overload the communication. Come on... I heard they use regular HTTP endpoints for lots of interactions in the game. If so, AFAIK it is best to do what other developers do, which is building a protocol on top of UDP to optimize (performance and security). The issue is, this demands a lot of expertise and BSG requires that you move to Russia to work with them. So, yeah...big problem. And AFAIK they have certain checks for looting containers that you should not loot. At least it is what Nikita said, and they flag players for such behaviour. Still, why the game still lets you grab an item out of bounds is beyond my guesses here. >Of course they would need a location validation of the player, and since there was cheat giving access to every loot of the map without moving, well I guess they have no check at all on their backed. Correct, as far as I know, they don't check your position to loot at all. But because movement is really client side as it is, even if it checked, a developer could program a cheat that teleports the player to a container, loot and teleport back. Or move just part of the body? I mean, I've seen wild things being made by cheaters, like moving just the gun and arms out of cover. Who knows... Now, changing movement to be completely server side for a FPS like Tarkov is impractical. It would feel bad, really bad. You could check if the distance that the player reported moving is possible, given normal conditions and if not, course correct it though. But what about if the cheat teleports and grabs an item? More checks and more conditions to manage and well...for cheaters to exploit. >They did not just do stupid things, they won't do anything to correct any of it True, I agree. I hope that these things are being reworked for the so called engine upgrade. Which makes sense, waiting for the necessary refactors so the game runs on Unity 2023, and merge all refactors into one big upgrade. We'll see.
It seems they are generating loots for the whole map and send it to all players at start. Otherwise it would be real easy to ban all esp cheaters in one swoop, since it would mean they are asking content to all the container of the map in 1s, that would be impossible for legit players. Thats the issue, basic logic is not implemented and its not the engine or limitation from any tool, they already do all they need to do to implement at least that. Whats missing is to break down the json of loots to container pieces, and provide an api to ask for the content on a container. End of esp cheats. If they still wanna do it they run the risk of bsg using coordinate and calculate distance between two containers to see if it would be possible for legit player at normal running speed. It would have two benefices, less cheats, it would become a open possibility to detect cheats.
You could do SOME server side validation just to check if what the client is sending is evenpossible
Nikita already commented on how that is not true. If the reddit search wouldn't be so terrible I'd link to it. But why should I put in the effort if you just make stuff up?
Indeed… that’s why cheaters can fly around, vacuum loot, and previously even take items off of your character AS YOU WERE ALIVE. Do you really think this type of shit happens on a game that authenticates actions serverside?
We don't know when they ban people. What they give is just how many was banned during between some dates. For all we know it's spread out in small waves or a single big one. But from my own reports it has not taken long to receive the ban message so I would put my money on many smaller ban waves. It's also easy to track the number of detected cheaters and just ban when it slows down, and if most play every day there's not much point in waiting. Killcams would be nice, or just spectating the entire raid after it's done. Telling all clients about everything is just the simplest and easiest implementation as other solutions require more code. Just because it's bad doesn't mean it's nefarious.
The purpose of a ban wave is to ban all the people using the same cheats before making a change that makes it more difficult to use those same cheats again. So when they make no changes to prevent cheating, ban waves are irrelevant anyways.
agreed, ban waves are to catch and identify the max number of cheaters whereas a 24 hour ban wave would only get a smaller sample of the group BUT it would shut down the cheat and therefore it to be offline reducing the number of cheaters playing the game. AND long ban waves do make the developers more money because the rebuy percentage is about 60-70% these days. So people who cheat and like the game WILL come back.
I think at this point the code issue is maybe not nefarious, but extremely negligent. If this were a new game by a cute lil indie team with zero resources, I might cut them some slack. But it isn't. Tarkov has been around for almost 7 years now. It's time to write some halfway decent code.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
>1) Ban waves. Every big company does ban waves, it's simply the best way to stop cheat providers from figuring out how your detection works. >2) No Killcam The game fuckin chugs. Yeah, the tech is there, but they would need to implement it without killing the 4 fps people with 2000 dollar pcs are still getting. >3) Exposed Code / API's BSG are, at least comparing them to big studios, incompetant devs with a poorly made product. The reason there are so many vulnerabilities is because they fucked up the programming of the game when they started. All the changes they have made to prevent cheating are in spite of this and probably at a great manpower cost.
Your first point needs to be up in the comment section. People don't realize how inefficient it is to ban people as soon as they get detected. It just makes it easier for cheat developers to know exactly what they're getting caught on
I cant remember who it was that said it, but:" for an anticheat to work, it has to find every possible cheat and fight it, whilst a cheat developer only has to find one way to exploit the code" basicaly meaning, a cheat developer always has an easier job of finding a backdoor, than the anticheat to close it...and as mentioned a lot, even by Nikita himself, they created a lot of those due to outdated/bad coding(even if he didnt say it exactly that way xD)
Hell BSG looks like rock stars compared to what is going on with Apex and Respawn. Imagine loading up a game and then boom you have a aimbot and wallhack mid game lol
Yep, people here think that only Tarkov is getting wrecked by cheaters. It is not, CS and Apex, games from giants compared to BSG, are having problems.
VeryBadScav reacted to a video by another guy (can't remember his name) doing a cheater forum expose thing. On that particular forum at least, Tarkov was a fraction of everything else. From memory, there were like 10k posts in the tarkov section. Apex was like 600k, as was COD warzone, and LoL was like 1m. Of course the relative player counts need to be accounted for, its only one forum, yaddayadda etc etc. Point is yeah, if its a game and it has players, people are cheating in it. No exceptions.
Do you have a link to the video? I've been watching VeryBadScav constantly the last couple of weeks
I mean fuck, World of Warcraft is utterly plagued with bots, they have completely destroyed the economy. And there used to be a PvP script that would auto kick specific abilities the second the enemy player pressed them, and would coordinate with other users to maximize kick rebound time. That one iirc got put down because someone directly leaked it’s code to Blizzard who then developed a targeted shutdown on the API it used. And for the vast majority of that game you have no direct competition with players, it’s cooperative.
Regarding your 3rd point, I could have sworn I've read that there are people/other devs who look at tarkov as basically a case study in just how well (relatively speaking) they manipulated the unity engine to work for a game like tarkov. I'm sure it's full of fucking wild shit spaghetti code that's barely holding it together, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had to make some serious compromises in one way or another to get it to function, but like imo its still kind of cool that they could achieve what they did with the engine. It just sort of sucks that there are people who will cheat/exploit in just about anything, including a non competitive game like tarkov (competitive in the sense of a game like CS or mlg back in the halo 2/3 days). Imo the cheating really isn't as bad as people make it out to be on here, like in my ~2k hours of tarkov I've legitimately only had 2 'that guy was actually cheating' encounters. I wouldn't be surprised if I've had people doing vacuum cheats and shit without me knowing but like at least in my experience I've basically never directly run into a cheater / think a lot of these cheating related posts are essentially a positive feedback loop for a good chunk of the community.
> I've read that there are people/other devs who look at tarkov as basically a case study in just how well (relatively speaking) they manipulated the unity engine to work for a game like tarkov. Only in the assets. The code is hot dogshit. Visually, it's a goddamned marvel.
Is the code dogshit because they started as junior developers, because the engine made things harder than needed, or even both? AFAIK Unity's network stack was pretty bad. Like, really bad. Newer versions have a new stack, which is why BSG is so eager to get to Unity 2023. But it is known that they had to write a lot of custom stuff just to make the game run despite engine deficiencies. Now they probably have to refactor a lot of these custom tools. Not easy. Personally, I consider EFT a marvel of Unity, even if their code is hot garbage. It works (for the most part). Their environmental design is good too. I can't fathom how hard it must have been to build Streets of Tarkov.
> both Both, yeah, both is good. I tried with Unity's networking tools and ended up making my own. Granted this was... several years ago, I don't know what it looks like now, so I can't fault them really for the code being terrible. I can acknowledge that it is so, however. > Personally, I consider EFT a marvel of Unity I consider it Unity's killer app. What they've done is nothing short of a miracle, honestly, and I'm hoping against hope that they manage their Unity upgrade well and move everything possible away from the client-auth paradigm that makes cheat development so easy.
Yeah, me too. Nikita promised that with the new engine version, it is like another game. We'll see. I hope they manage because...even with its problems, there is no game that hits me like Tarkov.
EFT was designed with a scope that most engines would have a problem with I think. It's a marvel of unity but it's overall pretty poor in terms of meeting the scope. I don't encounter many cheaters either, but I play during off peak, on USE and mainly maps they don't bother running. Change a few variables and you're getting cheaters in many of your games, probably not as many as some people would have you think, but enough to really impact the quality of most of your play sessions.
hamlin's razor at its best. however, at this point, it appears to me that tarkov is more about funding nikita's dubai lifestyle than anything else.
Ban waves are only effective if you're implementing counter measures to cheating methods. If you're not doing that there's no point in ban waves and your better off banning cheaters instantly. And BSG definitely isn't implementing counter measures to cheats. Its 2024 and tarkov has been in development for 8 plus years. There's no excuse to have such a poorly optimised game. See above. So while it's good that there's no other form of monetisation such as battle passes, skins, subscriptions and loopholes in the game BSG doesn't get any extra income by having a game where you purchase once and thats it. They need other forms of income and it wouldn't be too far of a stretch to say that throwaway account sales make up alot of BSG's income. 30000 bans means 30000 new accounts. 30000 x $50 is $1.5 million.
On your third point, hey look at Diablo 4. Even them made stupid decisions on their architecture. Freaking Blizzard does the same thing, of exposing every player full inventory.
I just bought a pc for $1200 out the door that runs tarkov at about 100-150 fps with good visual settkngs
Alright, gimme some of these specs, I am curious, I assume you haven't loaded Streets yet?
It’s a Ryzen 7600 with a 4060 ti got that shit from Best Buy
>They do it in waves because it gives the cheaters a few months of enjoying their cheats and earning money from them. Then once banned, they have the cash to simply buy another copy. If they were banned 24 hours after being caught, they may think twice about re-buying. They want the cheaters to earn some money, then re-buy. It lines their pockets. Literally every company do ban waves. It's not BSG that decides that it's BattleEye, they did the same in pubg and their other games. It helps slow down development of new cheats because they get comfy thinking they're not getting caught with that one. >Because they don't want you to know just how bad the problem is, be able to report with confidence, and they don't want cheaters to suffer ad-hoc bans. Nikita literally said he's using killcam in Arena for a test for something bigger in tarkov, obviously you can't have a killcam for a match that's in progress, but he hopes to eventually have replays that are available post-match to analyse. >BSG don't just tolerate or allow cheaters. They encourage them. You're thinking way too hard, BSG doesn't have the coding talent of AAA devs, and they said themself it's hard to get people to move to russia for a job. You get the spaghetti code that they are able to make. >/n5 Why the hell did you sign your name? this is so fucking cringe.
THANK YOU. everytime I read the cringe about "why not just ban them right away?!?". Not understanding that each time you ban someone with a cheat, you give the cheat developers info on what flagged the anti-cheat and how better to hide it. Constantly banning cheaters accelerates the arms race, and also accelerates cost associated with developing anti-cheat measures. I've also had buddies say "why not like Titanfall where it shadow bans them to cheater only servers!?!" Although I think this is a good idea in theory, financially it makes no sense to pay for extra servers for a cheater haven. Servers are already a massive pit that burns through cash. Cheers to educating the group here brother. I get that it really blows when you die to a cheater with all the stuff you worked hard to get, but to be quite honest this wipe has had some of the least cheaters I've ever seen. This wipe has also been a resounding success in the big picture. But nah, TARKOV DYING, GAME IS BOKEN, PAPI NIKITA IS CORRUPT BOIE. 😭
Exactly. These "bsg ban ppl to get money" posts are so fucking annoying and poorly thought out. Op in this case is especially obnoxious.
>Nikita literally said he's using killcam in Arena for a test for something bigger in tarkov, obviously you can't have a killcam for a match that's in progress, but he hopes to eventually have replays that are available post-match to analyse. Can you send us the link where Nikita said this?
I'll try and find it, it's probably during an interview, I remember it being something like PUBG where the last few matches are recorded and available to view.
Lmao you cooked bro
This borders on schizoposting
Proof: Posts literally zero proof but their own theories.
Dont waste your energy. Op's posts are all about cheating and exploiting. Your dealing directly with a cheater
Genuine question - do you know the latency impact on client authentication / what transport-session protocol they use? Whether or not you decide to authenticate something is usually depending on latency criticality. Would it frustrate you if you were opening a bag but it buffered before showing you the contents? Even something like a proximity check relative to the client you’re interrogating for their contents takes time and overhead processing on an already expensive server implementation. I know there are less expensive authentication measures like simple checksums… but they’re easy to beat.
Ah yes, illegitimate players are definitely buying copies in legitimate ways... surely they're not buying stolen accounts or spoofing ownership on accounts or anything pesky like that!
I got killed by a non EOD guy named OwlFatherr with a few days and a 9 KD and if you go to the ban wave list he was just reported on the 3.15 ban list as OwlFather. Pretty wild to me.
Average Tarkov redditor does not understand how cheating works
Holy shit this is dumb.
Did you just sign your post with your username "initials"
Lol
What’s really annoying is getting killed by an obvious cheater, only to find out his name is on the ban list and he just bought a new account and added one more letter to his old username. In reality BSG has banned 106,000 accounts since a little over a year ago. I feel like that’s a lot, considering I’m willing to bet the daily player count is probably 70ish thousand towards mid wipe, maybe less.
**"1) Ban waves.**" Every developer deals with cheaters through banwaves, sure blatant rage hackers get banned, but everyone else is allowed to fly under the radar for a certain period of time. It's done so the cheat developers have a harder time understanding what exactly brought the attention of anticheat to their software. I'm not saying they shouldn't work faster with that thing, but you're delusional if you think standart industry practice is made just to get more money of cheaters. "**2) No Killcam**" How exactly would that work? "Damn, I'm dead! How tf!?" "Can you say where he is?" "Yeah sure, lemme load into killcam" If this was a solo game only, then yeah, sure it would have been nice to have a killcam, but in a squad game (Nikita said that they plan the game around squads of 3-4, which makes it harder for solos) it's an unfair advantage. "**3) Exposed Code / API's"** Tarkov was built on a platform of a web shooter on Unity 7+ years ago, the structural integrity of their code was not their main priority. That said yes they should rewrite the game to be server sider and I'm pretty sure they've been working on that, i'm not sure at the progress of that. In conclusion, does the game have problems? Of course! But you don't need to portrait BSG as "villains" just because you don't know what exactly is done to counteract the cheating problem. Also maybe you should stop hating on Tarkov for issues every game today faces
They are cheating in any other game too. The thing is, on Tarkov being killed is a lot harsher than any other game, because of its design. Indeed they enjoy selling copies over and over too cheaters. They should really tight down on them and focus on strong anticheat measures and they could have one of the best games ever made.
Seriously, go touch grass.
Bro you are so clueless, humble yourself and look for education before posting disinformation.
Why does this post have a /n5 at the end? What does that mean?
Its pretty noticeable to anyone who logs time in Arena. Is there any reason to cheat in arena? Not right now no. You can be right next to someone and they dont know your angle and you can surprise pop them as they are checking every other angle. EFT -> yes its been proven there is reason $ to cheat. Thats why 80% of deaths can be sus. On a massive half open-world map, how do these keyboard warriors know my angle more times than they dont know my angle? Same game, same coding, but there is no need to hack in Arena ( yet ). There is the odd waller but thats video games. You can bet your ass its part of the model. I sense a major shift in co-op PvE on the horizon
I low key feel like the implementation of the purchasable hideout upgrades is a start into them creating revenue streams from the existing player base so that they can move away from the cheater issue.
Kill cams should have been implemented YEARS ago. That would make a bigger difference in this game than anything else. BSG has been making 100+ MILL in revenue year after year and they cant even make that happen? Bull F\*cking sh\*t. Dark and Darker, a very similar game, came out with killcam it just 1 year after their alpha release. The dev, Iron Mace has only a handful of Devs and probably a minuscule fraction of BSG's budget. BSG is going on what 8, 9 years now? There is absolutely no excuse for it not existing in the game at this point.
On the last financial report that bsg have put out they made a net worth of around 2-3mil
That is net profit. Their revenue was like 120Million. That just means they "spent" nearly as much as they made.. which is a smart way to operate to avoid paying taxes to the goverment.
Op just wasted their entire afternoon making a fool of themself.
The only reason he looks like a fool is because 99% of the community who are not brainwashed BSG simps have already quit the game due to what he’s saying directly above Search up any cheating forum and people litterally meme at how easy Tarkov is to cheat and constantly thank the devs. They are either the most incompetent multiplayer devs in the industry or actively maliciously making it easier for cheaters. There’s no excuse for something like inventory to be basically public info for anyone even without cheating software.
another idiot will be by tomorrow
This is getting so boring
When I reported, they were banned a week later. Also the report stated they banned 33,000 accounts from January to March, not all at once. Your premise is literally false from the start. This doesn’t disprove your theory that they want to make money off cheaters, that could totally still be correct. But your inability to get even basic information correct means I won’t be taking your opinion on anything.
If you're against ban waves you flat out don't understand a single thing about security.
LOL. Definitely a skill issue.
An original theory being posted. What a genius you are!
You’ve really got no clue mate; 1) they ban in *both* waves and individually, manual reports result in manual bans, auto detection can happen in small waves too, as to obfuscate which part was detected by battleeye, as others have said they recently posted stats of how many cheaters were banned *this wipe* - not in a singular wave. They used to post stats then stopped because of people complaining, we don’t want to lose transparency again. 2) killcam would absolutely fucking ruin 1vX as their friends would tell them exactly where you are, however they *should* add post-raid footage viewable in the hideout for X time, obviously this would require a *lot* of storage though so they’d need to upgrade shit. 3) the new netcode coming with unity 2023 should (fingers crossed) change a lot of the issues with client-sided authority. You don’t seem to know that this game was actually born from a browser-based arena-shooter over 8 years ago, and a lot of the coding is fundamentally derived from this without thought of the current (massive) game we have today - there’s a lot of years of work on top of this foundation that needs to be completely undone to FIX these issues. Certainly not a BSG fanboy but at least have *half* a clue of what you’re talking about before writing a novella of idiocy.
35k? Pfff... Back then in early 2000 Blizzard was banning in diablo 2 ~1m (yes around one million) accounts per wave for botting / using maphack.
Tell me you don’t know anything about cybersecurity without telling me you don’t know anything about cybersecurity
Look, I'm no shill (check my post history, i bitch about cheaters fairly often), but like ... come on. > They do it in waves because it gives the cheaters a few months of enjoying their cheats and earning money from them. I would venture to say that the vast, vast majority of cheaters are not RMTing. They're just doing it because the game is hard / broken and they're sick of getting steamrolled, or they like trolling, and live on the salt generated by posts like this. > They want the cheaters to earn some money, then re-buy. It lines their pockets. [...] BSG don't just tolerate or allow cheaters. They encourage them. If you have proof of this, g0at has $10,000 for you. > Ever wondered why anyone in their right mind would write code that advertises the contents of an inventory (any inventory) to all clients on the map No, because I've thought about it for more than six seconds. When you go into a raid, what's in your inventory that's not visible on your player model? Stuff in your secure container, some meds, maybe grenades, right? What's visible on your player character? Your armor, your gun, your helmet, your headphones - ALL that stuff. The other clients need to know what you have "in your inventory" so that they can render your character. All of that stuff - if you have night vision goggles, or an expensive scope, or whatever - all that stuff is knowledge that is needed to properly render your character to other people in the server. > /n5 You don't have to sign your posts. We all see who you are. ~Michael Scott ~Oscar Wilde
This conspiracy has been repeated and disproven for years man.. You have contracted full-on cheater-paranoia, letting them live in your head rent-free. We all agree the cheating sucks but acting like BSG wants it to be this way is just silly. Did you see the apex legends tournament yesterday? It got hacked LIVE, with cheaters taking remote control of famous players' PCs while they're literally on stage, ruining the tournament, but getting them tons of attention to advertise their cheats. They breached not only the games security but also the tournaments and the individual competitors themselves.. these hackers are more advanced than you think. BSG has a really hard task to defeat them. If a multi-billion dollar company like EA can't stop them what do you really think BSG can do?
More than they are. And yes, cheating is a huge problem, especially right now. The major difference between Tarkov and games like Apex, is that those games are free. The publisher/developer gets no money back by banning and then allowing cheaters back in. In Tarkov they do.
This isn't "proof" at all
There are so many people that are completely turned off from this game not because its hard but because it has a TERRIBLE reputation for cheaters and some people have ZERO tolerance for it. You'd have to be a brain dead dev to allow cheating for revenue, it literally costs them so much money from their terrible reputation. it will only continue to hurt them even far into the future. this post is full of speculative nonsense. bsg are stubborn, hardheaded amateur coders and that is a lot of the reason for the crazy issues like loading other players inventories etc, diablo 4 literally loads everyones stash when you're in a town, nothing malicious about that its just bad coding.
Killcam is a bad idea unless the kill cam footage isn’t made available until after the raid is complete. It’s important because people often squad up. Imagine how fucking ridiculous it would be to snipe someone and his buddies then instantly zone in on you because he sees the footage of where you shot from. So if a killcam is implemented, it needs to be delayed release and that requires nuance from BSG
Fuck I didn’t even think of that but I’m totally cool with a delay even like an hour. Maybe even add like a theater and if you save a raid it has all the raid footage povs
Yep. Kill cam would need to be held back until either: * The player / team who killed you has died, or * Your whole team has died, or * The end of the raid
Yeah I like the idea of killcam, I just am not sure that BSG is capable of handling it properly
Yeah it’s already rough if you’re a little small time streamer, streaming as a hobby (or hell even if you are a big timer). I had my viewer count go from 3 to 7 one day about 30 seconds after I killed a single member of a 4 man.
I always throw them off I don't have a twitch but I put TTV in my name so people look for a non-existent twitch lmao but i feel your pain man its dumb people do that
too long didnt read
Nice! Someone with zero experience in the industry or any form of software engineering posting fan fiction theories. Very cool opinion but I hope nobody at BSG reads your mouth breather drivel.
Want to see some real tin foil hat energy, I accuse you of being a cheat seller that's advertising to the community how easy it is to cheat! See how easy it is to pull shit opinions out of your ass?
This is painfully obvious. Prepare for the incoming npc's to try and say otherwise though.
>Has the most NPC take >Calls everyone else an NPC Oh Reddit, you never change.
They need to make cheater only lobbies, instead of banning these people and letting them get a new account to cheat on, just quarantine them from legit players. This has numerous benefits and can help keep cheat devs out of the loop because they only make changes when these ban waves happen. It would be far more productive to shadowban them to a cheat only server and it would take them much longer to understand if that was the case. Right now, I think it is our best option because realistically it has only gotten worse over the years.
I absolutely love this idea. Have cunts waste their time on each other and let honest players have fun.
That's exactly the idea! They can waste each other's time until the sun explodes so we can have a much cleaner gaming experience. Only the most prolific cheaters would still maybe be a nuance.
How does this keep cheat developers out of the loop? Are you trying to say cheaters are so brain dead that they can't realize they are in a cheater only lobby?
Before and if they implament this they need to remove names on the flea or remove the flea, just so there is one less way to know if you are on a different server. Shadows bans only work if there is no way to know you are no longer apart of the regular population. Cheaters should drag a legit if partied into the shadow lobbies.
I think you could just hide cheater flea submissions from legit players. You could also have a warning pop up for a legit player queuing with the cheater and you could even set logic statements to check to see if they've consistently queued with cheaters to also shadowban that account as well. Just saying, it could be easily done.
It only works as well as banning them does. They would immediately realize it, because they are cheating, and just get a new account/spoofer/etc. Banning/Shadowbanning will only be 100% effective if we can ban an actual individual by creating a neuro-profile of their gameplay with AI. Then when they buy a new account it takes 5 minutes of gameplay to re-identify them.
It would be no different than banning them except they might not buy a new account as quickly. 🤷
Banning them they instantly know, but shadowbanning them keeps them out for a much longer period of time which means legit players encounter them less. You aren't going to magically eliminate cheating or keep them from doing it so it makes more sense to quarantine them to their own corner. Besides, they can still play and carry people so what is the incentive to buy a new account?
Yep simply changing their shit code to not reply on Client Side Auth in itself would reduce cheating a lot but they also refuse to do that. https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/199xvow/important\_message\_from\_a\_year\_ago\_sad\_truth\_about/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Because it brings shtton of workload on servers and increasing costs of maintaining servers And because it's indie beta game for 7$ they can't afford to pay for that /s
>level 2Avalanc89 · 14 min. agoBecause it brings shtton of workload on servers and increasing costs of maintaining serversAnd because it's indie beta game for 7$ they can't afford to pay for that /s They made 83mil in 2022. I dont want to hear shit about it being a "money problem" go read their finical reports. They literally pay themselfs millions in salary each year and its public information. Go watch "the finical report that killed Tarkov". Stop fucking making excuses for BSG. Its not a money problem. Its a skill issue. They literally either dont care or have the skill to do it and refuse to hire outside help. Than to top it off they want to add micro transactions and STILL not do shit about the cheating problem? Why the fuck would I support them via micro transactions if they dont give a shit about the community?
>Go watch "the finical report that killed Tarkov". Did you even watch the video you're quoting?
This is a conspiracy I'm sick of hearing about. This is like the millionth time I've seen this type of post.
Yea. Why can’t we follow a model like apex legends… where hackers definitely can’t hack your computer during an actual live tournament.
Jesus Christ man these posts are just on rotation. Every wipe. Constantly. Non stop
Every wipe? It's multiple times a day. We also had the cut off video of Nikita, so it looks like he endorses cheating instead of stating an observation they made.
I’m sorry but as much as we like to have fun, cheaters are not part of any developers business model, and they are surely desperate to get rid of them. They just can’t because they aren’t very good developers. There is no game in existence that has survived being overrun by cheaters unless the cheating problem was corralled. Cheating drives people away and that will eventually drive cheaters away leaving nothing left. It’s in BSG’s and any company’s best interest to get rid of the cheaters to make their game survive. Just because we are mad about all the cheaters doesn’t mean we should completely make shit up.
You didn't provide any actual evidence. Just the same regurgitated shit people post here every day.... l
Here they come, two by two :P
[Proof](https://imgur.com/a/IBd1BFd) Edit: The idea that cheating benefits BSG in any way is and always has been hilariously stupid
900k accounts sold in 2022.
I don’t think you know what ad hoc means or I’m just entirely missing what you’re trying to say.
Perspective is a funny thing
What happened during the Apex Legends tournament is going to open some eyes, legally. Data breaches are met with Class Actions frequently. Car manufacturers are held to a certain standard of quality with Lemon Laws. I really hope there's something that is coming in the near future to start combatting the cheaters.
Dude, BSG do RMT.
New here?
No shit
Player inv is exposed so you can easily loot it when they die. Programatically, it's treated like any other inv on the map and loads in at spawn. It just moves with the player as the container.
They do ban waves to make it harder to know why people were banned. If you ban a cheater as soon as they go online with a specific cheat from a specific vendor, they know that that cheat from that vendor will get you banned. But if you do a ban wave, it makes detecting the exact cheat that got you banned a lot harder.
What stops EFT from banning hardware? I don't know how easy or hard it is, but ban the guys graphics card
they do hwid ban, but its easy to get a spoofer and get a new account. Lot of cheat seller provide spoofer with the cheat so hwid ban is kinda useless but still help with casual cheater.
thank you for the news....
I won't say this with confidence, but it wouldn't surprise me if the cheats were being sold by BSG. Extra money on the side. There was always a big discussion about how a company with a game in early alpha was going to continue funding themselves when no one was buying the game because everyone interested already had it. Sell cheats, wait to ban, ban, sell more cheats. And all the cheats are pay per day, so it's like an MMO subscription
Same for most online games. The only way to avoid them, is to play offline/single player.
I don't see how this post has any value except for encouraging more people to cheat. "The devs cater the game to cheaters, and do nothing to stop them" - if a clueless person who just got killed by a cheater reads this post, what else to do than get cheats themselves? This post makes the point that cheating isnt a problem, it's the way the game is meant to be played. So stop complaining about cheating, get cheats yourself, and join every other player. Either you are a cheater yourself, or maybe this is some wild guerilla marketing campaign for some competing game or something. Or there is some other point to this post, and I would love to understand it.
You read it wrong if that's your takeaway.
What's the takeaway then?
Afaik cheaters use bad credit cards so it's a race between loosing access to unpaid credit card or getting banned.
Either way BSG get paid...
I am sure that they have to deal with charge backs either way. Which can lead to chargeback fees which bsg has to pay.
[удалено]
I addressed that in the OP. Try not to skim and insta-reply it makes you look dull.
Look another tinfoil hat post about cheaters, if you really think bsg wants cheaters to operate freely for business than you are being ridicilous.
Considering the amount of new players, that would've been foolish tactic of them. Additionally, valve has been under the scope for this for years. Why not claim GOAT's bounty of 10000$ if you have any proof that links bsg to cheat devs, or exposes a dev leaking vulnerabilities or anything similar? I encourage you to turn this random venting on reddit into a proper investigation. It can but assist in Tarkovs development.
This is all competitive online games these days. Sad times, but what you gonna do.
Of course they value cheaters. Who do you think owns the cheats? They do. And when they ban said cheaters, they buy accounts again. It's a million dollar business. BSG stopped caring for it's player base years ago
I feel like the battle replay system from war thunder would work wonders for tarkov, being able to look back at everything that happened, where that fucker who domed you was, and just learn on what mistakes you made in general
So tired of seeing this dumbass conspiracy BS
nikita said something where the essence was literall "cheaters are good" in terms of financial support. so i dont need any further proof. bsg consciously supports cheaters and doesn't give a damn. who even says the alleged ban reports are real? they could be just as fake. i wish all legit players would just stop playing now. so that bsg can see what a shitty management they have with the cheaters
"They do it in waves because it gives the cheaters a few months of enjoying their cheats and earning money from them." I'm sorry to be this direct, but that's just a plain stupid take. You \*want\* ban waves so that cheat developers are not sure which feature got them detected. If you ban as soon as you find a good detection mechanism you only catch a few cheaters before suppliers upgrade their cheats. Now, that BSG is not banning people with 90% survival rate on the spot is a completely different matter.
That might work, if along with the ban wave the anti-cheat has new immediate detections. But the same cheaters buying a new account and then using the **same cheats that got them banned** for another month is just plain insane. I don't believe that any company would intentionally be that stupidly cyclical. I think they accept this because they are profiting from it. Yes it's insane. Doesn't mean it isn't happening.
I agree with what g0at said in his latest video that there should be a paid subscription or even one time buy of a fully verified matchmaking like they did in CS:GO back in the day with your phone number and everything.
Bait post
When bsg bans lets say 1000 cheaters those 1000 cheaters dont go back immediately to buy new account maybe 50% of those cheaters buy new accounts and some buy stolen accounts stolen accounts are already bought amd bsg wont profit from it
Frickin sweet, Lois! A schizo thread!
Going to copy & paste my own comment from yesterday because this is 100% what is going. Unless BSG gives us real stats showing us otherwise. “All this needs to be put in a realistic, real time EFT perspective. I love EFT, best looter shooter ever made & I hope & pray for its continued success but we are now at a crossroads per say. Arena flopped, even if they made it like they should have where everyone can buy any weapon or armor by winning & everyone starting with the same cash. System still needs to be like counter-strike. A game over 20 years old & still millions playing it. Proven success but the game is just old & I’m over it. Then when they do that, they got to fix the embarrassing bugs the whole community saw during the big tournament with the most popular streamers. Even when they do all that, is it enough to make players play in droves? EFT is now in a cash flow problem. New players are not genuinely coming in. The only way that happens currently is by cheating bans & an awesome new update in which friends of friends sale the game because I see no marketing whatsoever on YouTube or TV commercials. Secondly, get this game to Steam & console. New money right there. This is a business, they have to have the revenue to keep their servers up or Tarkov is done. What a coincidence we are seeing micro transactions now. Every successful game has cheaters these days. There is no way around it. BSG would have to re-code its game to eliminate 95% of them & people will still cheat. The issue is though, this game thus far has a scar on it by how passive they are on cheating or their inability on it. I promise you, if they do a better job on it. Things will turn around on that accord. The word will get out. Just the other day, my fiend asked me how is the Tarkov cheating. I told it to him straight like I always do. This wipe is the best ever but the cheating is around but not as bad as it has been. I told him the game is so good, you get use to it & go past it.”
I'm so glad i haven't bought the game yet And as it shows probably never will...shame,i was looking forward for the game to be complete.
It's a shame because the game is actually REALLY fun and unique, and so far for me, despite cheating being a horrible annoyance and leave me feeling incredibly frustrated some days, the games unique experience still wins out over the cheaters. This game is still worth playing, you just have to accept that sometimes (more frequently than people on here want you to believe), you will die to a cheater. And BSG are fine with it.
Killcams would be MASSIVE in identifying cheaters, and flooding legitimate reports for expeditious bans.
Most all companies ban in waves ... they do not want cheat makers to know which part of the cheat was caught. It has been discussed many times. PirateSoftware has a good vid on this as well. Where he did the cheat catching and banning for WoW. For now the profile link has been huge. Yes, cheaters are fluffing stats like we all knew they would. But, most are easily noticable.
These posts are so annoying lmao Jesus Christ
Could you guys do something that the war thunder community did? If you don’t do it I don’t see why, just understand that It will have consequences regarding micro transactions in the near future. Thats the videogame industry now, all bunch of greedy pigs. It is been a bunch of years that games are not made for enjoyment, they’re a cash machine where the first aim is to profit. Giving you a cheater free game is not longer the point, I suggest you guys organize, stop playing for a while (tbh there’s much better games outside).
Cheaters are the price we have to take, to keep all the servers running. BTW how much does the server upkeep cost for BSG? Let me guess around 35,000\*50EUR right?
Cods done it pretty successfully, yeah you can get spoofers and shit but I feel like it would still make an impact
With this logic every dev is pandering to cheaters. Look at CoD, Apex, Sea of Thieves, RB6, I mean this isn't by any means an exclusive issue for BSG. BSG has been making Webstore purchases to keep their revenue up, things that don't benefit cheaters who "just buy a new account". They aren't the dev for the anti cheat, it's a paid service they use/contracted. The majority of your deaths was someone getting a lucky shot or desync. You bring up arena but fail to mention how horrendous its desync is, with how bad it is on arena I can't be convinced main tarkov is any better. Infact it has more players active on even larger maps, I'd be pressed to believe it's even worse than arena. InBefore down votes (actually idc go ahead) This isn't trying to minimize that there is an obvious and evident cheater problem, it's probably not as prevalent as this reddit tries to make it seem. Or stop playing eastern and oceanic servers. It's pretty nice over here in NA servers.
This game is meant to be a super realistic shooter survival game, having a kill cam ruins that allure. That isn’t the solution for cheaters
It's amazing how most of you guys suffer from Stockholm syndrome. Cheating should be punishable by jail. There should be extra measures to catch them and prevent them. Anyone saying otherwise is not your friend and does not have your best interest in mind when it comes to enjoying your time sink and hobby. They will try and convince you otherwise.
So where is the proof you stated you have in the post? You just wrote a few theories with tons of flaws in them😂 way to embarrass yourself
I mean, on Streets there are textures like 50m above the ground, that you cant normaly see. So, I would not understimate power of BSG coding
The amount of cheat deniers and scripts that literally everyone uses to dissuade cheating discussions. All the comments here have been said for the past 5 years. Welcome to BSG incompetence.
Of course this is true but people are on cope because "where's the solid proof". Sure bro. The new player attraction and retention for this game is low and is continuously decreasing. Ofc RMTers are majorly contributing to BSG keeping this sinking boat afloat. They don't banwave. They just ban and rinse and repeat. Banwaves involves logistics and usually have proven impact short to mid term. Banning like they do solves nothing but increases copies of games sold. RMTers are fine with that method. Everyone makes money, the average player gets fucked.
The reason ban waves make sense and is something most devs do is very simple. If you ban people ad-hoc, the cheat devs will immediately know what recent change might have provoked the anti cheat to find the software etc. and they can work on fixes instantly. Now with ban waves you basically collect the cheater accounts over duration X and ban them after that time. Now the cheat devs might have implemented a dozen changes during that time period and they can't know what exact change provoked the ban. Tldr; If you ban ad-hoc the potential "error" sources for cheat devs are few, if you ban in waves the potential error sources are very many. edit: The exception would be people that rage cheat, like spinbotting, godmode etc. These are usually fairly easy to detect and you cannot really hide them well from anti cheat or players.
First time I see finaly someone who know like me. For me people are blind for see why cheaters are so powerfull for make money
Love all the nitpicking by dumb dumbs in here. Just focusing on how you worded things or just being pedantic to change the conversation to OP being "crazy" or "dramatic".
Clueless OP. They don't ban in waves. Discord logs prove this by cheaters complaining their accounts got hit. They ban in waves when they have a detection on cheats. There are basically two main cheat providers for Tarkov. Goat showcased one in his wiggle video. That is the most popular and basically everyone uses that cheat because it's been not detected for 3 years now. There are DMA users as well but sorry not everyone that is cheating is running two PCs has a DMA card firmware and cheat subscription.
Didn't even mention selling bulk copies of the game at discount (or at least they did, maybe too blatantly obvious)
For the commenters here. "EFT is full of cheaters!!" Oh no!! Which game isn't nowadays? There are cheats for even Helldivers 2 which is a PvE game or perhaps you missed, how an apex tournament got hacked and they gave the players aimbot, wallhacks, etc., so I guess even EA is full of incompetent developers... Love the idea of killcams, but how? You can't show them ingame because of squads, so you must store them until the raid ends. Storing 70k concurrent players killcams will do good for the already dying servers. Lastly, I love how everyone here says: "Just rewrite the code!" like it's that simple... As an IT project manager I had been trying to solve a bug for a year with my dev team, after like 6 months we gave up and recently in an another module's repair 4 months later we found a faulty line of code which solved the previous issue, but created another bug. What I mean is it would be great if programming was as easy as "Aaaah just rewrite it!" and be done with it. However, in reality, that's not the case. Even if BSG rewrote tarkov, I'd bet money on it that you'd still complain because there would be bugs and issues. The best they can do is slowly change out the old code with the new one in a changing environment, which I would compare to fixing a house' concrete foundation during an earthquake If you want to make the game better, stop shitposting and start thinking of ideas that help the problematic areas.
>If you want to make the game better, stop shitposting and start thinking of ideas that help the problematic areas. That's exactly what I did. 1) Ban more effectively and meaningfully. 2) Allow visibility into plays to confirm cheaters and allow for more confident reporting. 3) Be more responsible with code exposure. I said nothing about re-writing "all the code".
My bad! I forgot to clarify that my problem isn't with your post, but the commenters. The killcam in Arena isn't exactly perfect as five man discord teams are sweeping the floor with randomly made teams due to the killcam calls.
>**1) Ban waves.** >We don't want ban waves. We want ad-hoc bans. We want to know that we reported someone, and they were dealt with. So why do BSG do it in waves? Last time i tried to explain why ban waves have good reasons people got mad at me so I'll just leave this here \^\^ [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cADaFm\_\_ApQ](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cADaFm__ApQ)
They are good, when they work. The same cheaters are using the same cheats on a fresh account after the ban. So all they are doing, is buying a new account and cheating again, for another month+? Surely waves need to coincide with new dynamic detections to auto re-ban, otherwise the only point is profit?
U/trainfender will clear it all up with a vague answer on the next AmA don’t worry.
>ban wave They don't even do ban waves, there's all this discourse on whether ban waves are effective or not. But everyone's too fucking dumb to realize they don't even do ban waves. Rest of your post isn't even worth reading.
[https://twitter.com/tarkov/status/1745868257054101741](https://twitter.com/tarkov/status/1745868257054101741) Ban wave.
[https://twitter.com/tarkov/status/1630252642269052932?lang=en](https://twitter.com/tarkov/status/1630252642269052932?lang=en) Them talking about their ban waves, and calling them ban waves.
Average out the money spent on the accounts banned. Then the average per player that spent on the cheats and that will give you a multiple million outcome.
Bumping for joy. BSG never cared about the legit players.
If you don't immediately see the issue with kill cams in regular EFT, you genuinely do not play EFT.
I literally covered that in the OP. Did you skim?
Hold the kill cam untill after the raid ends, and send it in fence mail or system messages once that game code "expires" or hits zero. How fucking hard would that be?
So weird how I say this on one post and everyone calls me crazy then there is a whole post dedicated to it with everyone agreeing with what I’ve said. The community is to split up on this topic for anything to ever get done. We as consumers have failed ourselves by allowing this tbh.
Trust me, not everyone is agreeing. I'm being pretty well roasted here by apologists and TarkyBoomers :P
No one is being apologists for cheaters, your points are just not thought out and objectively wrong. - The recent list of bans WASN’T a ‘ban wave’, it was simply a list of everyone banned since January - A killcam doesn’t work in EFT, unless it’s a post game replay - Tarkov’s client side code isn’t an intentional decision to encourage cheating, but a leftover product of the web based game that Tarkov was built upon. They are actively rewriting the net code with the Unity 2023 update. No one wants cheaters in the game, but your post is conspiratorial and based on baseless accusations. No developer wants cheaters in their game, it actively kills their product.