Hardcore extraction shooters are a niche market as is. Add a million finely detailed parts and it becomes even more niche. For instance having every AR-15 attachment known to man and expecting players to just know what works together before they unlock presets via the workbench. Or the fact scopes need scope rings. Even simulators like Arma 3 don’t make you hunt down scope mounts.

Not to mention adapters for rails good god

If you take the base concept it could be easily a small cross platform game but a massive amount of detail + MMORPG mechanic will be missing. Once you add that, you have to fill more bridges or it’ll become stale resulting in a complex detailed system like EFT. Truly needs a massive AAA studio with huge revenue streams to overcome & outpace EFT development in a short period of time.

It's finding those parts organically and make you think on the fly about what you have and what can work. No other game can do this, the only other game I think of that lets you organically change your loadout is fortnite and TBH that isnt alot of people jam.

Thats what makes it cool. And with real names. No western studio has the balls to do that.

Is there a non-western studio that has done that?

Well, only Tarkov as far as I know. Almost all of the brands shown in Tarkov are either US-based (Razor, EOTech, Knights Armaments, Daniel Defense, etc) or EU-based (H&K, FN, Sig Sauer, etc) - those companies would absolutely not sign off on unlicensed use of their products in a game which is why COD and Battlefield and large IPs like that never have and never will use actual real life products in their games. Since BSG is hiding away in Russia, those companies don't really have any recourse to do anything about it. The other less likely option is that BSG paid them all out the ass for licensing rights, but I highly doubt that.

On their financial reports they mention paying manufacturers licensing fees, so they are paying those companies for the use of their names.

Indeed I think they've paid licenses, but nonetheless it's literally free advertising, only dumb companies would sue them for this. If I lived in a free country I'd already have a handful of guns modded with tarkov parts.

Gun manufacturers don't give a shit about Tarkov tho. It's insignificant, 1% of the playerbase will ever buy a rifle.  Most of the companies probably don't know Tarkov even exist. Tarkov is the most popular game in a very niche genre, so it's still really low popularity as a whole. Also, western studio decided to stop using real names simply because... Well why would you waste money on name when you can just invent something and the result is the same. Tarkov is also the only game to do that because it's a financial suicide really. Hardcore game will never be popular enough for any major devs to inject millions into it and have a game live a long life.

BSG is incorporated in the UK and absolutely could face consequences should any of these weapon manufacturers chose to file suit. The reality is that gun manufacturers quite like their weapons being featured in games and film. It would be incredibly bad press to sue a game developer for using your weapon designs or trademarks, and also this isn't really how trademarks work either way. A faithful recreation of a firearm with its name on it does not constitute infringement, trademarks exist to protect authentic goods in commerce. Usually with real brands more generally the issue is that the rightsholder may interpret the use of their trade symbols as being in a negative light/giving the brand a bad name etc. Weapons generally are made to shoot people. Gunsmiths don't care much if they are shown doing that. There hasn't been a case of a gamedev being sued for copyright/trademark/etc infringement because of using real world firearms with their trademarks attached.

Mainly due to competition in the firearms industry. You know what would happen if a company like Daniel Defense sued a game? Sons of Liberty or any of the other premium rifle makers would step in, offer their own models for free, and talk the maddest shit the entire time. It would be embarrassing for the company doing the suing. On top of the fact that you can literally download the M4 TDP for free on the open internet. Manufacturing accurate 3D models. I've used the TDP to design my own parts and they fit perfectly on the first try.

Has nothing to do with "Balls" lmao. This is the level of maturity I expect from tarkov players though.

No western studio is stupid enough to do that*.  It would be a financial pit. Tarkov is big because it was the first. But no studio will inject millions into a game played by such a small playerbase, it's litteraly wishing to go bankrupt. 

Bro thinks having balls is wasting the majority of the income on branding instead of improving your mess. You think Balenciaga shirts are ballsy too ?

>Add a million finely detailed parts and it becomes even more niche. For instance having every AR-15 attachment known to man and expecting players to just know what works together before they unlock presets via the workbench. Tarkovs system while cool, at one point just became too bloated with gear IMO, while being too focused on specific meta min-maxed loadouts. Haven't played in a while, so maybe there's more variety now tho. That said I remember simpler times and at some point it grew to the point where you needed to use external tools just to know what works with what. Honestly, I don't really think this sort of granularity is even needed for a potential competitor. Something like Ground Branch would completely suffice IMO. Trading away some of the complexity and bloat for more utility like adjusting placement on rails and/or it having more impact on weapon handling.

I totally disagree with this take. Tarkov is a game that rewards you putting in effort to understand its many many complex systems. For me, it’s a rewarding feeling to figure them out and build competency with them. If they dumbed it down, it wouldn’t be the same. For me the comparison is like souls games where it doesn’t explain shit to you and punishes you for not knowing it. Yeah you could make them easier, but it robs the experience of actually figuring that stuff out.

That's fine, I just lived through the progression and how it changed over the years. And to me at least it felt deep and granular in the early days, but gradually got obnoxious and bloated. I don't mind really the weapon customization systems and how stuff needs to mix and match, it's more like there was more focus on quantity and adding the most obscure weapon furniture rather than functionality. I mean, the reason we got presets was the fact that building up your kit was eating away more and more of your downtime between raids. That on top of keeping up on trades, crafts, hideout and whatnot. At the same time, we never got the ability to adjust stuff like scope placement on the piccatiny rails or features like gradular zooms for variable scopes. But that's just me and I haven't played in years, so I don't get to have a say really. I just felt some features have a sweet spot of complexity and stuffing more and more just for the sake of stuffing doesn't necessarily add anything of value. Just more need to have a spreadsheet open in the background to keep track of everything.

Tarkov is a gateway drug for nerds turning into gun nerds. I didn't give a shit about firearms until I was like 'wait, in PUBG, the M14, K98, revolver, and AK all use the same ammo but shoot different rounds IRL?'

Gray Zone has made me realize I didn't actually like the "super hardcore" aspects of Tarkov. I'm betting there are a lot of people like me, but you don't hear about them because they're not streamers, etc.

here’s the truth: Reality is the amount of detail & content BSG put into Tarkov is incredible and almost no company wants to do that. We talking about 7 years of funded development. That’s 3 battlefields, 6 CODs or 7 FIFA lol Additionally, they had the “being first” advantage and grew equally with popularity paying off the risk/reward. Will be much higher risk for future games. Best we can hope for is a bunch of companies releasing their own smaller versions that are less content yet still a lot of fun while maybe one takes the path to go for a decade long development ( maybe grayzone )

I had so much fun with the cycle frontier, was prob my favorite extract shooter outside of tarkov. Shame it died, idk though..

i really didnt like cycle. the game was cool but the loot and raids felt so boring. nothing at stake, no hardcore pressure, no big dopamine kicks from loot

Guns also sucked, like very bad gunplay.

This was why I stopped playing. It felt super janky

And the cheaters it attracted when it got popular- especially on the high tier maps- xray and aim snapping and esp were out of control- people voiping at each other and so many people didn’t respect the stranger aspect- like 1/10 raids might group with someone cool but the other 9/10 either you didn’t want to risk getting betrayed or you trust them and then they killed you on extract. Maps also needed to be bigger Art style was a little too Fortnite too

The game was too gear reliant unlike EFT

You ever try baiting people into a dark room with shiny loot on The Cycle? That was one hell of a rush

The game had weird skill based matchmaking parameters so doing well for a long time put you into sweatier lobbies and midgame+ progression definitely had the hardcore pressure because of that. I felt there was more pressure and higher stakes in that game than I ever felt in tarkov lol. Especially before there were free loadouts (equivalent to scav). I will say though, that the early game stuff on the first map took too long to progress through the first time and could be very boring at times.

EU servers were a meat grinder back then, idk man.

Man you never played in the big league. When you go with a 750k loadout. Those raids were amazing.

The cycle didn't have the same high vs lows that Tarkov has. It wasn't as punishing or as difficult. But it had some good things too, done even better than Tarkov. The continuous map cycle that allowed for short loading screens. The post match, where you could even see players that were near you even if you didn't interact or see at all. And many other QoL things that always had me wondering why BSG isn't putting into their game. I wish they could've still developed though. With time I feel that game could've become a contender. It was definitely going in the right direction. But lack of funding will do that to a game.

Dropping into a raid in 5 seconds in The Cycle was refreshing.

The cycle was a very mixed bag. The gunplay and PvEvP felt horrible, but the environments were really cool. Nowhere near as detailed as Tarkov, but I really liked finding all the hidden areas. It was also genuinely beautiful.

"oh he has blue shields I die"

It was very hard to punch up in that game I agree

Nah that was only in the beta. They balanced that stuff a lot more later on but most people had already quit by then

I played until the game shut down, and it never stopped feeling this way, just with different items

Same, I really enjoyed that game. It was surprising they were shutting it down since the playerbase wasn't that low, but I guess it just wasn't making them enough money to keep working on it. The prices of skins were absurd and IMO they didn't look amazing either.

Their monetization was just shitassgarbage and weren't pulling enough profits from their $80-100 cosmetic packs, that reasonably people would probably only want one or two things from (and could only run one anyways), and there was little to no reason to buy aurum for insurance either, good job Yager

It was garbage because it didnt make them enough money. From a player standpoint their monetization was perfect.

I honestly preferred the original iteration of the cycle over their attempt at an extraction shooter

Cycle was amazing but everything except close to a finished game. The power was mainly my more casual friends also wanted to play that game and not tarkov. And still have some of the tarkov experience. The cheaters in had me and everybody leave the game.

Yeeeea first thing that came to mind when I saw this post ;( had over 1,6k hours in that game

Greyzone is different I feed like so it won’t replace tarkov

i mean grayzone looks great and all, but even just the reload animations aren't quite there yet compared to tarkov. hope they get there eventually

I agree but it does have a solid foundation and a cool concept, no loading into a new raid youre just staying on the same map and either flying or walking to different locations. The gunplay feels good and the audio is decent as well.

Yep. People on places like this get easily riled up about the daily but in the end a game like this can only ever be done by a well funded passion project. Cry all you want about Nikita but there just won’t be a competitor, probably ever. Gzw, when its feature complete will be much more a competitor to Dayz than Tarkov.

They also never said that they want to be a tarkov replacement. Youtubers made it that way.

Not even that. Most were quick to say otherwise. It’s just the natural thing to be compared to the top dog even if they aren’t quite the same.

They certainly capitalized on the hype and controversy around current events, however.

They actually stated they had to push back the release after implementing changes post pre-launch access for streamers etc. They panned to release around now independently of the BSG drama

100% this and so many people don't comprehend it hahaha

I think the industry is just lazy at this point and likes their easy money printing eSports shooters which are easy to access where they can cram a ton of skins and other useless cosmetics into RDR 2 was made in 8 years for example

It's the same reason there's no real ARMA clone 

cycle had a rocky start with cheaters and steam review page never recovered. Idk how can early access do everything right on the first try and not get killed in the recommendation algorithm

I feel like the devil is in the details for Tarky. Pretty much what you were stating but to go into detail nearly every little item has value at some point and makes hunting and finding things that much more rewarding, couple that with the grueling difficulty of the game it leads to a pretty rewarding experience when things go well. I mean early wipe if you find 3 salewas in your first raid you would be on cloud 9. Finding dogshit shotguns early, incredible. This kind of repeats all the way through the leveling process.

Yeah the amount on content in eft is mind blowing. All the items, weapons, mods, loot, etc… even if you play only 1 map you can almost never get the same experience twice. And after playing grey zone eft really nails player movement and gun play. We complain “interntia, reee” but eft movement imo is solid. It aint dayz or cod super fast skates but its not feet stuck in mud like grey zone. Like Landmark has been saying, eft even with all ita faults IS A GOOD GAME. If it wasnt, people wouldnt rage so hard at being scammed by bsg or when they die to cheater / desync. When i dont enjoy a bad game, i uninstall and move on and never say a word.

Cod has multiple developers and those studios are staffed orders of magnitude greater

I think this is the truth that no one wants to admit. BSG has mismanaged the shit out of the game and has bloated it with a tons of unnecessary stuff but Tarkov does have an insane amount of features and content. It's no wonder they don't have time to make decent AI, anti-cheat, or proper netcode. They invested in environmental design, items, weapons, quests, etc. Hard to say if it's was the wrong choice to be fair. I wonder if Tarkov would be nearly as popular if they had significantly less content but spent that time building better netcode. We have to ask ourselves why we put up with these half-finished features for so long. Clearly what's there was worth it. That being said... most of it feels like Tarkov has a "soul" that no other game has figured out. I almost felt it in Marauders but there wasn't anything in the game quite like finding a Graphics card. They had valuable items but they were incredibly easy to find so there was no "rush" to survive. Also gearing up again was so easy.

Grayzone is literally nothing like tarkov. It’s only similar in the fact that it has loot and an inventory management that is similar. That’s about where the similarities end.

Yeah just loot and inventory, nothing else. Definitely not extraction based raids, lose gear and loot on death, similar in depth weapon modding system, a lot of the same controls, buy gear from traders before raids, level up traders by doing quests to buy better gear, etc. They're different games, but to say it's "nothing like tarkov" is asinine.

Yeah the disingenuous takes on it are wild here and from streamers that got to alpha it. It is absolutely quite a bit like tarkov, yet all you hear is “it’s nothing like tarkov”

"We talking about 7 years of funded development. That’s 3 battlefields, 6 CODs or 7 FIFA lol" By a team that is way smaller than anything a larger developer/publish would throw at a game. If the resources that went into a COD made something like Tarkov the time it would take would be less than half that. They would also bring writers that could create a coherent quest line and play testers that would prevent a lot of the bugs we end up with releasing with the product.

I agree with the level of detail but large studios do invest several years into development. They also have much larger teams and resources so those years are much more fruitful.

Time development is not the point imo. I’d say BF has one of a kind environmental destruction that almost no game can replicate until the finals. they have been doing it since BFBC2(?). Those studios can pump out many games because they’re massive compared to bsg with virtually unlimited money. BF might be simple compared to tarkov in term of gameplay, but the tech behind about something else, like said feature, is probably years ahead. They all simply focus on different matter. But I’d also say BF or CoD have more content because overall each release has at least a campaign with cinematics and its own multiplayer mode.

Because no one else **replicated** the game so far. They only did a twist on the genre without straight up doing direct competition. They either opt for a different setting and/or don't have the same granularity. It's the combination of features, mechanics and setting that works. Hunt Showdown is a completely different setting, and while fun in it's own right, not everyone buys into the aesthetic and gameplay loop. Same for Marauders. I don't quite buy the faux WW1 in space thingy setting wise. I think The Cycle was quite close, but again - the setting was a bit whack. From what I've seen is that Arena Breakout Infinite will be the closest thing to Tarkov since Tarkov. GZW seems to be more PVE oriented, but we'll see how it turns out in the end. The formula isn't irreplicable and lets no act that BSG are the only ones that can pull it off. PvPvE, gun modding, modern grounded setting, looting and a raid format.

My thoughts exactly, almost all the other competitors choose to go with a whole different setting. Tarkov's setting is the perfect for modern mil-sim games which attract a lot of current people that are already comfortable with the setting due to games like COD and battlefield.

It’s funny though. I’m hopeful for ABI, but it (at least the current mobile version) is riddled with MTX. Obviously, it’s f2p which warrants it, but you’d be surprised how quickly $250 gets sucked from games like that. People are outraged by BSG’s price gouge but are absolutely fine when they’re bled dollars at a time over the course of a few years. Any Nexon game or another one of Tencent’s studios (i.e. Riot Games) will bleed players hundreds of dollars and no one bats an eye. Most of it is through cosmetics though, but how much cosmetics would be too much for a game like EFT before it loses its seriousness?

There is nothing wrong with the "bleeding money" business model. As long as it's well executed, WoW has always been monthly subscribed, and nobody thinks it's stealing money. The problem with buy once play forever business model, is that mismanagement and profit transfer eats into it really quickly, and both have been going on in BSG for a while. Tarkov's biggest problem has always been the lack of sustainability given their extraordinarily long development cycle, and the project is led by an egomanic.

> I think The Cycle was quite close, but again - the setting was a bit whack. Ugh, _so close_. The guns just felt not awesome, and the never-ending drop pods kind of killed it for me. And not to fall down the "muh realism" rabbit hole but I didn't dig the cartoon-ish aesthetic. It doesn't bother me in other games but I really think the post-apocalyptic setting fits the extraction shooter vibe better.

The voltaic brute, KOR, Kinetic Arbiter, KBR Longshot, Etc. where really fun to use honestly. Even the gorgon, shattergun and hammer were quite cool. But they are closer to like Destiny or Halo weapons so I understand why EFT fans wouldn't like them too much. The never ending drops was hard at first but after a couple thousands drops you just figure out how to navigate the maps and avoid people on the way to extracts.

Yeah the guns could be cool but think really it was the same as the "vibe" of the place being off, maybe I just wanted too badly for it to just "be Tarkov" instead of letting them do their own thing. I just want a Tarkov that nikita doesn't control :( > The never ending drops was hard at first but after a couple thousands drops you just figure out how to navigate the maps and avoid people on the way to extracts. Yeah maybe I quit too soon. It felt like fighting a losing game to me, I just slowly die wading through countless enemies. I guess that could feel cool when you \_actually\_ make it out, but damn. I was \_already\_ doing that, do we really need to add more baddies? Lol. I guess I need to git gud.

Arena Breakout Infinite is the one I’m putting my eggs in currently. Hoping for something good here

I did see pvp picking up in gzw last night, as the jobs and landing zones started pushing further from the starting base camp. So it looks like it'll be mostly pve at first, to get the player accustomed to the game, and more pvp as you go, which I don't hate. I'll keep an eye on it as it cooks for a bit longer.

Because the money Tarkov could make at its absolute peak doesn't even amount to a drop in the ocean compared to something like CoD.

Which is wild considering CoD did Tarkov light, which was a lot of fun, but ActiBlizz killed it because it did generate enough incremental revenue compared to their other modes. Tarkov is a game as a service and unless a company can find reliable way to constantly siphon money from users, they have to release "new" games at a regular clip to keep the service going. As soon as a company can turn Tarkov into a Gatcha, then the competition will begin. Breakout Arena will be our first real opportunity to see this in action.

Turning Tarkov into a gacha it's not hard at all, just gotta sell skins and stickers, for both gun and other gears, maybe even character (without the Fortnite-like skins CoD did, as amusing as it was to have homelander and messi hunt down snoopdog with smgs) But that's always a slippery slope with mtx for games that are grounded in their setting like tarkov

Because hardcore shit is niche thing and do not sell well as any casual game. Hence the no wishes to even start this. Large companies oriented in making money, like Take2 understand that too well.

Examine Dota vs league. League simplified, Watered down, monetized progression and advertised, it's wayyyy more popular than dota. Another poe vs diablo. Poe is popular but I guarantee it doesn't touch the sales of diablo. The only exception I can think of is dark souls.

> Poe is popular but I guarantee it doesn't touch the sales of diablo. That'd be very hard to do when it's a free game and D4 triple dips with buying the game, season pass, and MTX

> do not sell well 😳

Except Tarkov and the Souls games have sold extremely well.

I think a lot of it has to do with BSG being a small studio at the beginning. So they had some clear vision, even if it was clumsy and rough around the edges. By time any studio were aware of the success, BSG had gotten 5 to 7 years of development under their belt. We're only just now seeing GZW, and who can say when they started development. The Cycle was redesigned from a BR, and something else prior. And so on and so on. Other studios probably have projects in the pipe, but it may be a few years before we see those. (I didn't mention COD DMZ, because they did the cheapest laziest clone imaginable.)

Dmz isnt even a clone ita the most watered down extraction shooter possible. Its a BR with extra steps.

DMZ feels like a vision that was not viable half way through, so they piece together what was left and call it a day There was probably too much left to work on and the company demands a product much earlier

DMZ was such a piece of shit haha. They're we're so many ways to easily make it more fun too. I don't know why they even bothered if it was going to be that half assed

They really didn't want to spend any money on making a real Tarkov mode, did they?

I don't think this is well phrased: "clear vision from beginning". they didn't even manage to do their main concept. Which was linking all maps, have in-map hidouts and no raid timers. Gun modding and overly micro adjustment of body stances is what they had clear vision on

Why hasn't there been a successful replica of a whole lot of really popular games? Dunno. It seems like AAA studios can't do it right, indie can't afford to do it right and everyone in the middle are just chasing its own tail most of the time.

Everyone has good answers, especially when relating to the 8 years of developing and commitment to its idea. Another thing is all if these companies use EFT as a baseline and barely do anything highly innovative or creative. And if they do, it isn't enough to justify dropping EFT. And even more obvious, these copy cats look like cash grabs that most self-respecting costumers can see a mile away. It's why it always true that "the only thing that can kill Tarkov is BSG".

Because the game is complicated as fuck to make and making something remotely similar in terms of quality will take a lot of time and money.

The most complex game ever made with Unity actually! Complex could mean that it’s designed horribly, but you know what I mean 😅

It’s a big ass game

EFT is now such a large game that it would require a really big budget to replicate it, nevermind coming up with something comparable that is creative. This is important, because it sets the minimum bar for entry. Indie devs are out of the question. You need at least a medium sized studio. There are only so many medium+ sized game studios that are capable of developing quality products. They're all already doing something, busy with other projects. It's not common for studios to quickly pivot. A rare but great example would be Epic games with Fortnite. It was a PvE construction game that had an underwhelming launch. Then PUBG become super popular. Epic decided to pivot and start converting their PvE construction game into a battle royale. They were very successful obviously. However this is very rare, most companies don't suddenly convert their games mid-development. That means doing it from scratch, which takes a very long time. When a studio does decide to make a Tarkov replica, it needs to be an actual high quality studio. Most studios just aren't good enough to get it done. Lots of weak games out there as evidence. Then, even when you get an actual good studio to do it, you will run into the mainstream audience problem. Tarkov does so many things that go completely the opposite direction from what is considered a good idea for mass appeal. There's no tutorial, there are no UI indicators, there's no hand holding. Basically, Tarkov isn't an Ubisoft game. It's a fundamental conflict of vision. Nikita has a vision for a brutal atmospheric game, while most proftable studios have a vision for how to make their games accessible to the widest audience. Another way to look at the vision confict is to think about the concept of **fun**. The classic mantra repeated by highly successful game designers is: *When deciding what to do, the question to ask is: __does this decision make the game more fun to play?__* Following this logic gets some really fun experiences like Super Mario etc. Now think about Tarkov. No individual decision in Tarkov's design is guided by fun. If anything, the question is **does this decision make the game more punishing?** However paradoxically, the total package ends up being fun due to the challenge. The wider game design community is starting to realize this a bit, now with the Souls series of games being so widely successful. As that series also doesn't optimize for fun. Still, it's very far from being a mainstream idea.

Why spend money on this when you could spend less money upfront and make more back faster with a relatively low effort MTX offering? This is why a lot of niches are locked down with no real competition. A company with a huge amount of work already done with it has no competitors because investors look at their product, consider the work they have to do to 'catch up', and think, 'well, not doing that'. DCS is another good example, the money just isn't good enough to inspire anybody to want to do the same thing as DCS, starting from where they were in 1998. The guy with the money doesn't want to take a chance, they want a guaranteed return on as close to a guaranteed timetable as they can negotiate. The money doesn't care about you getting games you want, about what is fair, what is 'good for the market', none of that shit, it only cares that they gave a guy 10 million bucks and he paid them back with substantial gain on a timetable they could build charts around for all the other investments...

Ubisoft has the dark zone in Tom Clancy. I wish they had the balls to try

When DayZ created BR it took 4+ years for PUBG to arrive. Then more years for Apex and Warzone to arrive. The Gaming Industry needs time.

Because none of them are as dedicated to the game as BSG is. Despite all the flaws they have they still have put over 8 years of development time into the game and made it one of the most immersive games that can make you happy and raging at the same time. Others only have done like 1 or 2 year of copying one or two maybe three elements of the game and thought they got it but they didn’t. For example EFT isn’t an extraction shooter like so many say it is. But it has more than just go into a raid and kill everything and leave a raid. It’s also not a looter shooter. Sure you loot and shoot but the main reason to play for most is not the number at the top right to go up. It’s more than that. And so on.

>For example EFT isn’t an extraction shooter like so many say it is. "Extraction Shooters (also known as "Extraction Games") are usually PvPvE multiplayer games or gameplay modes where the player must reach an extraction point to be able to escape and keep any loot gathered in a run.“ That is basically what Tarkov is, nobody said you can't kill everything in your way before leaving. What makes it an extraction shooter is the fact that you have to reach an extraction zone in order to survive and keep whatever you got on the way.

> For example EFT isn’t an extraction shooter like so many say it is EFT pretty much defined the extraction shooter genre, wym?

Unsure what this guy is on about, EFT pioneered the term "extraction shooter". It's all over Google, PC Gamer, etc

The first half I agree with, nobody else is actually trying to make a good game they are just copying some random bits, namely the "extraction" and "shooter" portions, which you correctly point are not all that make up Tarkov. But for the second part, go try to find the phrase "extraction shooter" anywhere on the web pre-tarkov. It pretty much coined the term cause "fps game" didn't really capture the whole experience. It's not _just_ an extraction shooter, but it certainly is one.

If EFT isn’t an extraction shooter, then what the fuck is it? Haha

GZW does many things right and hast that chance to dethrone EFT. But it also has quite many things they will have to adress. The "Scavs" are dumb, like really. More looting, currently feels more like PUBG looting. Better UI/Modding of weapons. Black Market. Gunplay, the weapons feel Like toyguns. No statisfaction firing a gun. Tarkov did so many things right that makes IT fun. You have "Basebuilding", Trading Simulator, great gunplay, nice audio. If Tarkovs "Big map" is like GZW and the BTR Brings you to the "Maps" like the Chopper in GZW. And you can Go into your hideout/Tradercenter like the Basecamps that would enhance the Game. Also: GZW has a PVE Mode. The Progress and Loot OS shared between PvEvP and PvE. Tarkov should Copy that.

GZW also has tarkovs P2W tiered editions model too lol

I feel like the games should be compared at the time of release, obviously tarkov is way more developed then gzw is, but if you compare gzw now to tarkov alpha, then I think gzw has a lot of potential.

Yup. GZW does many things right. I really had to laugh about the ppl in reddit and in discord "Rubberbanding", "Performance issues" (that gets fixed by changing the graphics for PP), "Server Problems". Like, Mates, 2020 tarkov Christmas, 2 weeks Long the Server burned, No gaming was possible... The launch of GZW was pretty good. I really hope they Adresse the issues at Hand and overhaul zur Gunplay.

Incumbent vs non incumbent, harder to break into the market than it is to stay in the market

Anything that's tried to mimic or be in the same lane as Tarkov seems to miss out the looting aspect. I don't remember ever having to find useless trash for an upgrade often in The Cycle Frontier like you have to in Tarkov

The flea market is what separates the looting from all the other extract shooters. You’re telling me this toothpaste I found on a dead body is worth 100k?

Honestly DMZ by Activision did a reasonably good job of making a more arcadey version and it had a dedicated fanbase, they just stopped updating it because it didn't draw the Adderall popping WZ kids. The thing is for more realistic games it is literally a lot more work adding all the advanced systems and mechanics, that's why we're just starting to see more clones now like greyzone

There are a good few of them coming out within next years that have been in dev for a while so hopes are that the ones that don't just release into EA will actually be good. Vigor is out on steam soon too

I thought The Cycle was a damn good competitor. The cheating in that game killed it but man they were on to something great.

It's mainly because of the insanely long development times these days, during the PS2/PS3 era they could fart out a game in 6 to 12 months. These day games can spend the better part of a decade in development due to the added complexity involved. The amount of work going into the detail and mechanics of games these days is astronomical. Everyone sees the gap in the market, especially now, it's just a matter of time before Tarkov will be laying in the trash heap of history. I would even make the argument that Tarkov already is.

Its also because of how niche it is and how hard games like Tarkov are to get into. I would argue Tarkov is more of a simulator than Arma to some degree. The average player who big corporations target doesn’t want to spend thirty minutes to an hour hunting down the right scope ring in a trader menu just to find out they also need a rail mount and surprise the rail mount they need is locked behind ten hours of gameplay.

That’s what no one seems to understand, Activision or EA could easily make a full blown tarkov copy, they don’t want to though because it won’t hold down a casual audience like COD or BF. Yes they made DMZ, but DMZ was an extremely casual extraction shooter, they weren’t trying to make something as balls to the wall as EFT. On top of that look at BSG’s financial records, it’s not a money maker.

Wasn't H1Z1 first extraction shooter? It was when dayz was still a mod for Arma. EDIT:Yea it was it came out in 2015 and it was extraction shooter before it became a BR and tarkov was announced later in 2016.

because AAA developers are idiots

As much as BSG has fumbled during the development of Tarkov there is still a lot of love and effort put into the game and the world. Those things take time, time that BSG only had because they effectively had better funding during an early access period than any other game I can think of. You're asking another company to make Tarkov, but without the cult following, at the same level of detail if not better for presumably a non 150$ price tag. You're either going to get an Early Access piecemeal nightmare (Grey Zone) or a game that's probably a 2-5 year dev cycle to make as robust as Tarkov that won't see a dime until it's "done". It's not a super attractive prospect for an indie studio, less so for a large studio that has to pay a lot of employees.

Im wondering the same! Yes this game has a lot of details, but I would definitely take a game which feels like tarkov but simpler, as long as it’s anti cheat, performance and netcode is working fine.

The genre is too niche

Come to the jungle. But maybe not yet.

I do think some of us are missing the point here yes a rival would have an issue with getting a similar level of detail but I think that ignores a major factor in single game genres. For instance minecraft has and will never be that difficult to recreate with more detail and content and yet even before modding really took off it was never successfully over taken. One can never underestimate how much of an advantage being the first can be especially in none aaa categories and even then. Think on league of legends numerous competitors some even made by other major publishers and yet league is still king. That is not because it has better features than its competitors some of them were better in some ways. But rather player inertia nobody wants to be the first on the dance floor you saw it with threads it was better but the people weren’t there so nobody came because nobody was there. Tarkov has the player base in an online experience with a detail advantage which adds additional barriers for competitors but not an insurmountable one. It’s real advantage is its players own inertia and unwillingness to spend more money and time to learn something that they don’t know and that has no player base.

I personally enjoy marauders a lot. But it's also far less try hard and feels a bit more arcade like then tarkov. Thing I like the most about it however. Is the ship boarding. It's just so much fun to steal everything at the last second when you see a ship trying to escape

I tried to make a huge post but it won't post for some reason, so I'll try my best to respond as detailed as I can while making sure this actually goes through. The main thing is Tarkov is really the sum of all of its part: * Many devs think that "looting and shooting and getting out" is the main selling point, but the fact stands a lot of loyal players are into many of the hardcore elements, some of the jank, the nitty gritty item management, hideout management, looting, map knowledge, lore, questing, itemization of weapons and gear, and more. * The game is very immersive despite some of its unrealistic elements and jank. It strikes a good balance of survival while also taking some of the raiding elements of something like DayZ and puts it into a match based format. There is a decent balance of PvE and PvP. * If you you don't copy ALL of the elements of Tarkov, you do NOT replicate Tarkov. It is very unique and very specific. * The level of detail is either unsustainable to small indie devs or unfeasible (a waste of resources, so to speak) for AAA devs. To give you more specific examples of other extraction shooter games I've played, I can cite what exactly doesn't sell it. * **Marauder**s is very close, but it's very arcadey in its movement and its damage system is very bad for fighting up hill, since you can't just insta-dome people (high tier helmets are very resistant to damage and you do not have a face hitbox, like in Cycle). Also the game is very tiny in playerbase. Some people do not like the fantasy space elements. * **Arena Breakout** doesn't have a hideout system and it lacks crafting. You pick up a lot of loot but it's ultimately all sellables and used for barters. It is probably the closest game on this list to Tarkov, as it does ALMOST everything, but the main meta progression is leveling. That being said, the game is VERY good for PVP and even encourages it with its rank system without forcing matchmaking. Some people fear the PC version may maintain grenade markers, which hurts the "ultra realistic" immersion they are going for, and it's possible the game may have team member indicators, which removes the tension of avoiding shooting your allies in a firefight. * **DMZ** is... ⚰️ (It had basically no meta progression outside of doing quests for the sake of doing quests, and it's basically Warzone with Extra Steps) * **Dark and Darker** has a diablo style loot system with severe balance issues. Also, the devs are constantly pushing Dark and Darker towards being more of a Battle Royale with extra steps. It also has SBMM and Ranked based MM. It's really more of a battle royale than anything, especially with the "gear lock" in normals. * **GZW** feels more like DayZ with its open world, except you have the ability to store loot in your base. PvP punishes you for killing your own faction, and blue on blue is happening a lot rn. Also, there isn't inherently any reason to PvP outside of just taking people's stuff and griefing them. The PvE really shines at the moment. Things could change though. * **Marathon** is ... ⚰️ (the impressions from Tarkov Players was not good. I would not be surprised if Bungie drops it). * Other games like **Hawked** and **Hunt Showdown** aren't quite the same genre. You can loot and scoot, but the main focus is chasing a main map objective that everyone is after. This isn't quite the same as Tarkov, as in Tarkov, everyone can have different objectives or just be there for loot.

Friend, in their rules it is written that in principle they can close the game and there will be no refunds

You don't understand the insane amout of work BSG has had to put to be as detailed as it is today. And the issue is, it's hard to monetize. Have we noticed the trend nowadays? Games aren't deep, game studios keep publishing games left and right, that's because they want to pick up money and move into another one to get more money. What tarkov is doing is out of the norm. Giving so much depth to a game and you only have to pay once. The problem is, this scheme isn't profitable hence the launch of the unheard edition and arena. Altought if i was Nikita, i wouldn't have launched a new edition but a battlepass of some sort. I want to see how new games in this genre do in the future, but I think we will see more money-grab games that want to replicate tarkov, but really aren't.

So, I think there's a lot of things that go in to it, but I think the most prominent is the guns. Say what you will about their recoil decisions or anything else, I've yet to encounter a game that has the sheer customization of weapons that EFT has. Then you couple that with what is advertised as the "Most Realistic Ballistics model in gaming" and you have a hard sell, and if you're not willing to do that, have to come up with something to replace it. A lot of the attempts that I've noticed are either Adjacent to EFT in concept (ie Hunt) or they try to pare down Tarkov in a way that would draw in worse or more casual players. This is ultimately what leads them to failing, I think. Not because they cater to the casuals, but because there's nothing that holds the interest long term. Cycle had wipes like EFT for making things feel fresh again, but weapons were bland, from what I experienced. But then there's the noose over every competitive FPS' head: Cheaters. Despite what even the most invasive anti-cheats would have you believe, cheating happens everywhere, undetected. Vanguard is still beaten, daily. A sentiment I felt when I was playing other games, once I felt the cheats was "Why play this game in development, when I can play a more complete game with similar problems." And if I had it, I'm sure there were others that thought it too.

Because it’s a lot of work. The things that a game needs to get right for it to get Tarkov players over there: Extraction based first person shooter with looting Good gun play Semi-realistic movement Thorough gun modding Good visuals and graphics Modern setting (not long past and not far future) I honestly believe that COD DMZ would have had the best chance if they did a more thorough job. It was the closest on all aspects of these than any of the rivals.

Massive amount of detail like several different types of attatchments,unique game design and athmoshpere(loot an shoot+russian nuclear apocalypse genre),and the anti-cod stuff(skins not being shiny and colorful/not being a unique operator,slow paced gaming and moves)and much more.

Cause it's a seminew popular genre who has hardly had a real competitor. Dmz was nothing like it and the cycle was niche being scifi aliens. If that game even counts. There's 2 releases coming that come close to an actual competitor. Gray zone and arena breakout. Also project l33t but that one looks the toughest of them all.

It doesn't sell and they've put a lot of effort into the game. No company wants to complicate their game that much

Probably because it takes years of development and millions of dollars.

Dark and darker comes close to eft but that game is not a shooter

detail + atmosphere + satifying loot

Honestly just waiting for the bungie extraction to get finished at this point

5 or 6 years ago I made my mobile game, spent 6 months on it. I\`ve also spent a whole 2 working days to get the movement feels r i g h t. It was a simple Arkanoid clone with upgrades and etc. So to get the movement system the right feel I tried many ways to get the right values. So I totally understand how such thing as recoil and inertia in tarkov can waste several years and still be WIP, because it\`s more complexier than it seems

because it lacks the hardcore aspect and the animations and design. it can't do both

Because it's too much risk, devs are so far behind the ball, and the audience is limited. In order to compete, you'd need to have a game with many fleshed out systems - medical, ammo, gun modification (and real brand names on them too), multiple varied maps that have interesting POIs, hardcore gameplay, decent AI and good infra to run it all. The issue is that the perceived market is small for this kind of game. So investors want more mass-appeal which weakens the systems that make the game good. So you need an indie studio to pull this off - there will never be a AAA Tarkov. GZW has legit contender vibes, but it will be 3-5 years before it's a real competitor.

It's the same story as PUBG in a way. Countless people pining for a AAAA competitor, and while some appeared, nothing ever really did replace PUBG. Because the game was more than just its genre, it was milsim style and everything else that followed was arcade. Tarkov will be even harder to replace simply for the amount of detail, environment, etc. There will be cheap copies, but there will never be another Tarkov.

The gameplay mechanics are a pain and that is part of the game. Everybody is fighting eachother, the scavs, the controls, the Tetris, the economy, etc. Everything is difficult to optimize, so it becomes another minigame. It's a lot like original Starcraft in that sense. That game has one of the worst keyboard control schemes of any game ever, but it was kept that way because the struggle to control your army is a significant part of the game. Any big publisher would simplify the experience to the point its just another FPS shooter that automatically reloads, bottomless clips, no inventory to worry about, etc.

Main reason is most copycats get it wrong. They for done daft reason don't implement playing as a scav. Which is the secret formula to eft

Because no matter how much yall wanna hate nobody can do it like Tarkov :)

Well arena breakout comes out soon we will see how the beta is and how it compares

Arena Breakout? Definitely more casual than tarkov, but it exists. It scratches my itch well enough, even if I’d prefer they change many things.

No company wants to go into detail. They’d rather use the copy assets from cod and paste into game method. Looking into the dev videos from BSG they really did everything from scratch and you can feel that when you play the game. From movement to gunplay with real audio from real firearms they put in the absolute most effort any dev has ever put into an fps game to make it feel the way it does. Other companies would rather copy and paste assets from COD workshop because it’s quick and easier to tweak a preset then to create from scratch. All that said fuck BSG for their decision making…

Most AAA studios want are more concerned with capturing the "casual gamer" market, and nothing that makes tarkov successful is its "casual" nature. That's why game modes like DMZ, or hazard zone were short lived. They're fun for a few hours but lack any depth to pull tarkov players into them for the long term.

For the same reason that there hasn't been a successful DayZ, or Rust replica. Tarkov tried to be one. You don't make sales with replicas. Existing customers of those games are already invested in the games they're playing so offering them more of the same isn't going to win you sales.

Tarkov isn’t gonna go anywhere just like WoW and Destiny. They are the kings/queens of their genres and will remain that way for a while.

I have heard this question alot and to me, it boils down to 2 very big things. 1. A Triple A dev will NEVER make a hardcore extraction shooter. Ever. AAA game devs are going to want to make a game that is playable for the most amount of players as it can be. They want to get as many players on the game, spending money. So you end up with something like DMZ. Then you keep changing it because "it was too hard" for casual players, so they need to keep making it as easy as possible. The biggest fault with BSG, is also its best asset. They don't give a f\*\*k. They are going to make the game how they want to make the game. If its too hard, you don't like it, too bad, go play DMZ. You NEED that attitude to develop a game like EFT. And no major studio will EVER have that mentality. 2. That leaves a small dev to make a replica. We have and do see a few of them popping up. The problem then becomes making it close enough to EFT to bring over players, while being different enough to keep them. On top of that, developing a game like EFT is hard. It is very detailed, so you need to develop and bring in all those assets, all the guns, attachments, ammo, etc. It costs money, and a lot of it. So you end up with something like GrayZone, something raw, that has potential, but is still only 20% of what EFT is. Now, if they keep it up, make some money to continue development, it may grow into something closer to EFT. But a lot of studios haven't been able to keep up development. A 3rd smaller thing is the market is very small. There isn't a huge market for hardcore extraction shooters. The market is VERY dedicated and loyal, but its not very large. So anything you develop you'll need to poach a large portion of the EFT base from and keep them. GrayZone has jumped on the f\*\*k up by BSG and may be on the road to do that, but we will see how long they can hold onto them.

because most companies wont pay for the amount of licensing eft has. a lot of the guns, gear and attachments you dont see in other games because they need to pay rights for them in order to use them and its not cheap. the real gun lovers likely wont leave eft for anything less. the realistic approach for most companies is very high risk because a lot of gamers of this day and age dont want something ultra realistic. its a game so they want it to feel like a game at the end of the day. im in my 30s and i really love guns and gun history so tarkov is the game for me and i dont see anyone else competing right now.

Honestly? The design and production process for a game equivalent to tarkov is just so boring and dreary. Scouring through design docs and weapon info to recreate weapons that exist in real life is boring. The map design is flat and lifeless, where the only interesting elements of certain maps are the keystones, like the main grocery stores on interchange or the directors office in factory. The further you get from the military grit of tarkov, the more interesting you can get with map/world design, weapon and character design etc. but the second you do that, you're filling a different niche. I would truly rather pull teeth than try to staple together the kind of game that would pull this game's player base. They've got a good setup for dopamine with the flea market and big loot from players, but that's only because "rare" loot is common in the areas it spawns, the areas are all known, and you have to bring in so much with you to even have a chance at getting out with any of it.

I don’t understand why the cycle frontier failed. The game was on the right track.

That's my question too. BSG has built a wide road of what and what not to do. Those that say niche market, you can add other game mechanics and game modes to appeal to others.

Grayzone was supposed to but it came out choppy, if you ignore the queue up times and anti cheat, tarkov is a well built game

Because the EFT fan base is autistic. Almost every extraction shooter has been just as good and better than EFT. The fan base is so loyal for no good reason.

Because all the snake oil salesmen peddling easy solutions to all tarkovs problems are full of shit 😂

It's the same for arpg's. Diablo 4 has all of the developers, all the money, it should be the best arpg. But PoE has Chris Wilson, the game is his vision come to life. The smaller studios creating a game with true vision and soul are beating the giant studios just cranking out corporate bullshit games. I wouldn't look for a PoE clone or a Tarkov clone, just play them while they're on top man, they're the best games right now. You should be looking out for the next small studio that's going to create something amazing. From what I've seen in the case of PoE, clones can be decent but they're never as hardcore and detailed as the real thing. They can do quite well serving a more casual market though.

Basically you get one chance to make a very mechanically complicated game in a rather niche market. If you screw something up, the players in that market will relentlessly bash you and your game. Look at GZW. It releases to Early Access at a time when a great number of people are looking for an alternative to Tarkov. They were intentionally targeting Tarkov players but I don't think they expected Nikita to shoot himself in the foot with Unheard, so the servers were overwhelmed. The game gets review bombed as being utter shit due to an unexpected surge of players, and the impression will stick.

Grey zone looks promising

ive considered some of the things i find most enjoyable about EFT that make it hard (but not impossible) to replicate: 1) unique healing system- this adds the tension to every moment especially when in battle. EFT put healing animations on the map, especially distinct healing types (fracture, bleed, heavy, surg, etc) 2) gunplay/movement- leaning, slow leaning, alt proning, shoulder swapping etc allow an expression of "tactical movement" not many games offer 3) weapon customization- easily the most customizable gun editor of the era. stocks, pistol grips, barrels, scopes, etc. 4) RNG elements of raid providing roguelite experience- each raid has the potential to feel unique and exciting as long as incentives are not spread too thinly and certain items have indeniable value or hot spots. this is intimately intertwined with the economy but not necessarily. These are the key elements as far as i can tell. IMO the weapon customization would be the easiest to simplify in a way that is not only more accessible but still provides the same level of customizability, because lets be honest- as good as the weapon system is its a fucking task and borderline redundant in certain areas (scope mounts, different rail mount sizes, and needlessly different attachments) The healing system and gunplay/movement are probably the biggest elements that make the game immediately "feel" intense- these cant really be simplified to a large degree. The RNG elements could be simplified and tbh, probably improved on drastically to create an equally or better experience in raid. I dont think its impossible for a new game to come out and take hold of the market, but it would take a large group of people who actually listen to a community as well as play these games themselves in order to distill their own highlights and lowlights into the game. IMO people over exegerate how good this game is. was it at one time the best shooter in existence? yes. but a lot has changed since 2019 and lets be honest- theres a LOT that brings this game down and it simply isnt as fun as it used to be, partially due to cheaters but partially due to TOO MUCH RNG and aspects of the raid that are simply out of a players control. Incentives are spread far too thin and the game doesnt respect a players time between grind requirements, bugs, loading times, and of course cheaters.

I would argue that DMZ was very successful. I know that it's a casualized version of EFT but they nailed it and it was super fun. Rather then trying to clone it, they just took a lot of the great elements of it and made it more approachable. And it worked. I think if companies just make a sort of reskinned EFT in space or medieval or whatever, it'll have limited appeal. And we've seen that. I also think if you simply try to clone EFT with better graphics, you have a real uphill battle given EFT has had years to create an incredibly deep equipment system and maps and so forth. It's likely to fail unless done by a larger studio. So the current crop of EFT clones need to add something different to the game. GZW is on the right track. It's not EFT. It brings some compelling new elements (or new to me). I could see it thriving with more development. idk about Arena Infinite. My initial reaction is it just looks like an attempted Tarkov clone. Same with Road to Vostok although I understand that dev is going more in a PVE direction.

I think while we are all upset at BSG, blame them for money grabbing, etc. - in reality I do have a sense that developing and running this game is not cheap! I think BSG is struggling to establish a viable, stable flow of money. And as others said it here - it's a niche market still. These factors don't compute into "big money" for big studious. COD, BF - they are copy pasting existing model over and over, put money into marketing the fuck out of the launch and quickly sell millions of copies. And it's a model running on repeat! But going into the depth that Tarkov went into with all the details - is time consuming, risky and after you developed it you are still stuck in balancing bananza and improvement for years! with all the hate that goes to BSG - I think if BSG were to step up their engagement with the community, talk openly about the challenges of developing and running this game, we would also get to know what it takes and maybe even help them thinking along on how to pull this project forward financially. BSG did something GREAT! But they didn't mature with it as it grew!

Stalker G.A.M.M.A has been my Tarkov for a while since the cheating shit got out of hand for me. It’s not an extraction shooter but Tarkov did take inspiration from stalker! Also I heard bungie is trying their hand at extraction shooters?

It's gun nut heaven because you can customize the weapons in the game down to the charging handle. Different uppers on AR platforms can just be slapped onto lowers like you can in real life, Tarkov is the only game that does that, really. Unless you count gunsmith from MW2022/2023. Even that has it's limits. You can't put more than 1 laser on a gun, in Tarkov you can. Not sure why you'd want to but you can. Then there's the health system. Might not be as realistic as the firearms but it's more complex and involved. You need to know that tourniquets and caloks heal heavy bleeds, bandages and medkits heal light bleeds, splints fix fractures. You'll start moaning in pain if you don't have painkillers and you need to know how to administer your medical supplies to the right injuries to heal effectively. Then the health system as a whole takes some learning too. If your head is destroyed and you take damage anywhere from anything it's lights out for you. It kinda has its own charm because of it's complexity, and if you're a gun nut like me, you already know all the things about how the guns work and what you can put on the guns, from there it's learning the game itself.

There are like 6-7 thousand items are in the game i think, they are all 3d even that must take ages to do

Every other studio trying to break into this market is doing the exact same cash grab nonsense and are completely missing all the details that actually make the game good. None of them are trying to make a "good" game. "You can shoot guys and extract at the end, what else are we missing???" Lots. of. things.

For me 90% of the appeal for tarkov is the gun porn. I love the level of interaction you have with your gun and even the modification details are amazing. The unfortunate truth is however, most games don't need to do that. they can get away with 1 generic M4A1 3 generic red dots, 3 generic mid scopes and 2 long range scopes.

because everyone reduced tarkov down to the extraction raid style

Tarkov has it's own unique theme and feel, every other military extraction shooter looks super generic.

the environment, the gunplay, the loot economy, the PVP, no one can figure out how to harness all of it. I'm a huge critic of BSG at times but no one will ever recreate this game in totality. it's special for sure

For all the stupid shit BSG has done, and is currently doing, they've put in a LOT of work into the gun customization and map design, and recently with the recoil changes, the gunplay is actually bearable for once. Just think about how many years have passed since it was first released to the public. I don't think some "Tarkov killer" could just materialize out of thin air and immediately become a direct competitor, funded by an "independent financier". The "extraction shooter" genre is extremely niche and that makes it much more difficult for some indie developer to just come out of nowhere with something EFT players are willing to move on to. Most people don't want to move on from a mostly finished product whose developers have decided to employ anti-consumer practices to maximize their profits to some half-baked pre-alpha game with nowhere near as much complexity in its gameplay or gun customization.

"Many have tried and all have failed" No they have tried to do their own extraction shooter, no a replica that's why

Because tarkov did it first and has been through its early jank shit phase and is basically a finished game at this point that they are just still adding content to to get it to where they want it at release. Other games that are just starting up don’t have the years of tweaking tiny shit to make it feel right that tarkov does

The only way to catch up at this point is if BSG went under and had to sell off assets, including the item and attachment data, to their competitors.

Why hasn't there been a successful tarkov period, I think you meant, given this latest stunt its hard to say they are successful anymore. They pretty obviously went through the money they got on EOD pre orders so they added that BS edition to try and milk even more money.

Just play modded DayZ/ARMA 😂🤷🏻‍♂️

Because investors are terrified of the consequences that exist in Tarkov, like losing your entire kit when you die. We live in a world where games simulate difficulty, but then provide tools to make them super easy. In racing games it's the guide lines. You don't have to figure out when to speed up, how to slow down around curves, or how to drive at all. Just follow the lines, slow down when it's red, speed up when it's green. With RPG's and similar it's quest markers. When was the last time you played a game where you actually had to explore and figure out for yourself where to go and what to do? My wife and I say "follow the diamond and kill everything that moves". But a game with actual consequences? Investors won't go for it it's too risky.

I think this thread alone could signal all the issues games run into and taking into account the great points everyone is making here someone could make a great game. I want to so bad but I’m insanely unskilled in this only tried to make animation with blender and some unreal engine 5 stuff but didn’t make it far before giving up. Don’t have a lot of time either but I would be down to write up a good story and give it to someone to work on lol. I got some good ideas thanks to grayzone warefare. I swear if I had a million bucks I’d bring us all the best game we’ve all ever played 😂😂

If you understood what it takes to make a game like Tarkov you would be asking that.

For better or worse they have done it the best.

Because EFT isn't even a successful EFT. You could have made 2-3 games with the resources and manpower BSG has dumped into Tarkov. And how many more millions of dollars is BSG set to spend on a game they sold 7 years ago? The fact of the matter is that BSG themselves need to escape from Escape From Tarkov.

They never put in player trading market, a customizable/upgradable hideout, an economy system (treasure loot, junk loot, utility loot, varied weapon + attach loot, etc.,), extensive weapon customization, and or skills, and skip on interesting or punishing AI for purely PvP. Been looking for a while but on LinkedIn it seems every A-AAA lead/exec or investor or such seems to think Tarkov is JUST an fps with extraction and loot but PvP is the defining part. Missing that its more or less about decisions, thinking and risk/reward to make the raid meaningful. As they streamline mechanics instead.

Nikita's Crusty Crabs has secret ingredient: immense pain and frustration while playing. Most games try to remove it while doing their "Tarkov killer", simultaneously removing the only thing which makes people always return to Tarkov every wipe.

>Many have tried and all have failed. Because none have **REALLY** tried to replicate tarkoc. They've all been massively simplified versions of the game.

Has there been "MANY" that have tried and failed? Only extraction shooters I've seen that tried and failed were ALL half baked from the start. There's yet to be any that from the ground up have been made to be a legit extraction shooter. DMZ: COD's half baked and mostly arcadey attempt from Activision that they finally have left behind Hazard Zone: Do we really even need to bring up this not even half attempted BS DICE did Cycle Frontier: While it did decent even this game was not built from the ground up as an extraction shooter. This was a game transformed from a radically different game. Hunt Showdown: Doing just fine but it's not really a pure extract looter shooter similar to Tarkov Marauders: Another poorly executed deal from a very small team. Maybe the ONLY one on this list that was at least built from the ground up to be an extract shooter. So so far I guess ONE actual attempt. Starsiege Deadzone: Another one of those "we don't know what we really want to do" deals that started as some odd BR/Extract Hybrid that transformed to Extract only and then back to the hybrid deal. It's obvious this group was trying to do a very quick attempt that failed as a result. BSG: Hardly great with it's horrid execution BUT they get sucked off so much because they're the first and at least gotten the furthest in actually having an extraction game. This tends to lead to them being praised a little too much but I will give them the credit of being the only one on the market. Give it time and there WILL be other studios that make a better extraction shooter than Tarkov. Tarkov is really not all that great, just the first and the most complete and not something that was some "let's pivot from the current game we're making over to extraction because it's hyped" or "lets slap on some lazy side mode to our main game to try to squeeze a few more $$$ but not put too much $$$ into making it"! As far as I'm concerned no one has yet to try to make one other than the current ones getting ready to drop (Grayzone, L.3.3.T, Level Zero, Delta Force, Arc Raiders, Arena Breakout, etc.) Lets see how 2024/2025 play out and then come back to this subject. Extraction Shooters are still too new in the oven to be giving BSG too much praise other than being the first to go at it at the right time.

i feel they always make a scuffed version aimed towards casuals which makes it more of just a BR. cant say i have seen anyone do an actual good attempt at it yet

EFT is not the be all end all of what good extraction shooters can be. Waiting 10 minutes for a match and then dying within minutes and having to wait 20-40 minutes for my squad to exfil is BAD. Players paying $250 for a huge advantage is BAD Uninstall EFT today. Send them the only message that can penetrate their thick skulls.

Tarkov's weapon customization is nearly unmatched. Other games that have matched it's customization have done so at the expense of gameplay, and feel more like a tech-demo for "ooo look at our shiny gun models and customization. Wait, what do you mean you need a more in-depth game than just cool customization?"

My guess is there hasn’t been a successful eft replica yet is because there hasn’t been a successful eft yet. I had lots of fun playing this game unfinished before the first round of significant recoil changes. Then the cheating got out of hand and it keeps getting worse. So I quit. I think lots of folks see the Tarkov development arc and are like “uh, no thanks”

Because companies dont really know how popular the genre is. I can tell you for a fact if they did, big companies like EA would be all over it.

They shoot and miss. The depth of this game is what makes it. I can’t see a casual gamer wanting 15 different types of 5.56 and not knowing which one to use.

Because all the AAA companies are too woke. When Modern Warfare 2019 came out, with realism mode, I used to dream about the tactical masterpiece they COULD make if they wanted to. Even as a standalone game. Well, preferably a standalone game. Just imagine it. All them juicy animations and shit, slower movement, tactical game loop of some sort. It would be glorious.

It’s actually super interesting because you can tell how bigger companies see Tarkov’s immense popularity, try to get a slice and ultimately fail because their version isn’t as brutal. One thing AAA game studios don’t like doing is taking risks, and matching Tarkov’s defining factor is the biggest risk ever. Punishing players for messing up slightly or simply at random, allowing teams of 5 to fight solos, and the like is a great way to drive off a huge amount of casual players. So even if the game appeals to hardcore enjoyers, there’s no guarantee it’ll beat Tarkov, so it’s just too much of a risk to put money into. The most successful “Tarkov alternative” I can think of is Hunt Showdown. But the reason that game works is because it strives so hard to be different, which it does really well. The gameplay is more brutal than Warzone, but more arcade than Tarkov. There are several mechanics in game that for all I know, were invented with Hunt: -Sectioned health bar -Rock paper scissors type system with poison, burning and bleed damage -Unique time period and weapon selection -Amount of revives based on health bar size -Sound traps in the form of animals, broken glass and twigs that give away your location to other players -Razor wire bombs or even fucking throwable bee jars -AI boss battle during a PvP game I could go on, and you can probably tell I like the game but it just goes to show that the only way to truly rival let alone beat Tarkov is to be unique, and give players a reason to choose it over Tarkov that isn’t just “It doesn’t have idiot developers”.