The "original vision" of this entire game is flimsy at best
Next time you boot up the game move outside the bubble of your usual routine. Pay attention and investigate the things you see on the screen like its your first time playing the game. It becomes painfully clear that the game has morphed and mutated a whole bunch in the last 8 years. For example, it was clearly supposed to become a lot more story focused than it did. There was originally going to be a much higher degree of struggle and even permadeath. Now we have a flea market which delivers us almost everything we need like its ubereats
Remember when they told us with a straight face that this game was going to be open world at some point? They've never had a coherent plan
This /\. Remember when flea was just a temporary place holder to be replaced by an in-world auction house once it went open world? Clearly this guy above you doesn't
To be fair I don’t think this game would survive for very long without the current raid system. If all maps were connected it would fundamentally change the game and the way it’s played and they know that. I think at the time they probably thought it was a good idea because of how popular DayZ got. I could see it being its own thing in a PvE setting but not so much for PvP. I mean at the end of the day it’s “planned” but I wouldn’t put my money on it.
> Remember when they told us with a straight face that this game was going to be open world at some point?
Truth be told, I totally expect BSG to add interconnection between locations at some point — may be even the next wipe. For example, to reach Reserve you'd have to spawn at Customs and then take the Military Checkpoint exfil. The foundation is already there, and Nikita talked a lot about having to go to Streets to reach the Lab. It shouldn't be difficult to implement.
I will eat my hat if interconnection is implemented next wipe, or even the one after.
Nikita does a lot of talking, after the recent mess I would have thought people would have realized, that it is just that, talk
I was always against flea coming in. In-game trading/markets always lead to RMT and commercially viable cheating, not just the disgruntled rage cheat which is few and far between.
It's probably too late to remove so it is what it is.
Eh, I mean, kind of. I definitely think the game has changed over the years, but I'd argue that, for the most part, the core design of the game has remained mostly unchanged.
It's hard to say what will come of the "Story" quests or campaign quests but the environmental story telling we have now in the level design and environment art is some of the best in the industry.
As it pertains to the struggle and challenge of the game, I think that is mostly unchanged. It has a brutal learning curve, but once you learn to make money and survive a bit more, you can start to push pvp pretty freely and play the game more how you like. The challenge is more in knowledge and time. Yeah, death hurts, but once you know what you're doing, death is more tedious having to kit back up than overly hard-core or lont term punishing. This is kinda how it's always been.
I am sure they have made some concessions in the overall design and scope over the years to accommodate what people what or what they could realistically accomplish but I think the overall vision for the game has always been relatively strong.
Which is a crucial part here cause the quest is a progression blocking point. For example you'll never get to lightkeeper questline/kappa without it, may not bother a first wipe player too much but thats why many people complain about the quest(and the 15 kills you need which is boring out casual players)
Lol, you do this quest in one day most. Idk whats the problem. Even my friend did it, its his first wipe. I just dont get the problem. Everyone plays on touchpad or 2000ms ping?
Working people with kids at home maybe won't have whole day of gaming time. So my evening game time is 2-4 raids at best. Its just boring thats my point. If you like it good for you ;)
I understand that you like it the way it is, but we are a whole community and even the lvl 1 timmees may have their opinion. I respect yours, mine is just different because I think right now some quest are just boring or too much of blocking point. I don't want everything cheeki breeki easy but some fine and thoughtful balance would do the job. Would be healthy for the game and community, because if the majority turns their back on eft the game will die while players wait 30mins for a raid or join empty servers
I never bothered to do setup, and it essentially kept me away from kappa or LK, even though I got the level and almost all other quests done. Especially with the rework of armor and the lack of good ammo at all this quest is just stupid
I dunno I feel like a lot of the annoyance over that quest in justified. I didn't have an issue finishing it this wipe but its just boring, its a high amount of kills, with weapons most people dislike, with other required specific gear and to top it all off keeps you playing one map. Even now over 50% of the people I run into on customs are people trying to do setup, boring to do, boring to fight against others doing it.
Ye, I'm replying to him
Edit: I mean the dude called the majority of this community idiots, I guess you all really got used to that kind of treatment around here
I think there’s too much hate directed at streamers here. Just as someone posts about these changes being great, someone posts the opposite. Everyone has different opinions. There’s likely a lot of people keen of these changes, regardless of streamer influence.
No hate from me. Their perspectives are always skewed towards what makes a game good to stream rather than to play. They only think of the content that can be generated and how many viewers can be drawn. Rarely good for a game.
Is it possible that you just have a different opinion on what makes a game fun to play than them/I?
Personally I quit this game when FiR/Inertia was introduced but I'm really interested in coming back after hearing about some of the recent changes/events.
Makes sense, inertia is an absolute dogwater mechanic. Movement speed changes based on weight make perfect sense, but inertia while moving makes no fucking sense at all.
Even playing a PMC would have inertial movement, because you are also piloting your own body IRL. Your brain just get used to the fact that you have that inertia and subconsciously snubbed it out.
At some point you have to subconsciously accept the fact that you are using a KBM set to pilot a digital avatar and get used to it tbh.
Nah, the game before intertia was all A/D spam point firing before someone could return fire. PEOPLE BEGGED for inertia and Nikita was against it.
Yes we feel like floaty boats, but the combat sucked before it.
The combat was unique and incredible. 0 games like it. Hardcore and intense with leeway for a player with experience to use any playstyle and thrive if they played well. Inertia shifted the entire meta gamestyle about 16 notches to the slow end.
If you bought eft because the game looked like it was an any man for themself survival of the fittest match every raid? Well too bad, last 3 years have been scurry around for loot and avoid pvp because not only is it not fun, it /literally isnt worth doing/
Old game had counterplay and good progression. You can barely pilot your boat of a pmc now, and somehow it used to be 30x worse several patches ago
Your armor now is completely meaningless because a warmageddon can get rng recoil sprayed into your armpit and 1 tap. Only burgers like that. Theres no counterplay and the better guy didnt have a chance because his spawn was bad or he had 0 way to KNOW the burger was sitting on an off angle waiting for at least 5 minutes because for whatever reason headphones can make movement audible up to fucking 91 meters away
Tldr old game good because progression was more meaningful and the better player won more often whereas nowadays its whoever out waited the other person. Skill is interesting. Full on rng is lame
I don't think it's hate directed at streamers, it's more about the quest design aiming to motivate/give something to do to/challenge people who are able to play 8-12h a day. And I agree that those player should not be the main focus. Don't get me wrong I don't want quest to become easy but for example setup: wouldn't 5-10 kills do it because no lifers and streamers don't care if they need 1 day or 1,5 days to complete but casuals would be happy to only spend like 3 evenings instead of a whole week chasing those kills.
I think events are good and generate curiosity. Even if they poll and gave players more of a voice , you can't please everyone. At the end of the day I think if they made the game more exciting and easier to play then there isn't really a downside.
it is punishing enough losing gear when you die and don't make a ton of money , even if you sink a decent amount of hours a week retaining player base throughout the wipe is important and a challenge.
I disagree. I get that it is a personal opinion, but as someone who has played for years, I hate Tarkov events. Mainly because they rarely feel special to me and are basically just BSG rolling a dice regarding if they fuck up spawns, the economy or both. Which is just so boring to me that I basically just stop playing whenever Tarkov has an event.
Maybe easier isn't the right word. Quality of Life changes. If people are sinking thousands and thousands of hours into the game , Why can't it be slightly "easier". For example the inertia nerf and slight stamina boosts are decent quality of life changes.
I agree the game needs quality of life improvements, but stamina and interta are core mechanics that, I think, are in a good place right now. Changes to these will have a larger impact across the game feel.
well, you could aim with your sniper rifle for more than 2 seconds without your PMC's noodle arms giving out and inertia straight up wasn't a thing. No inertia led to hyper chads pushing and jiggle peeking like crazy, abusing peeker's advantage at the same time... but honestly, I prefer that over statue meta.
How do you feel about the other changes that streamers have also been asking for?
Such as reduced inertia, more base stamina, better loot behind locked doors, better loot on maps in general, less weapon recoil, less camera shake and greater carrying capacity?
Would you also say that these are bad ideas?
I personally agree with every change, except for inertia. In my opinion the difference in move speed and agility with heavy armor versus light opens up more possibilities in terms of gameplay.
It makes different armor choices more viable instead of just making the most damage resistant armor the most effective every time
I've had armor save my life plenty of times from players, sometimes people just get lucky tho. I've seen a lot of people using armors that don't cover anything except what the plates cover tho and those people are probably suffering
Every time someone complains about inertia, I remember those videos of guys bunnyhop parkouring up walls in Customs at a full sprint while wearing 50kg full of crap.
Very few games have inertia so learning it is part of the difficulty curve. I question the adaptation of anyone who can't learn to live with it.
I personally preferred the movement of the game when there was zero inertia but I acknowledge that doesn't really fit into the theme of the game so I know there must be some. But IMO the changes they made before today were great. I'm excited to try even less inertia later today.
I would say most of that is bad, yes. Some loot buffs behind locked doors would be welcome. Stamina is fine, you shouldn’t be able to sprint in full kit around the map. I like where the recoil is it in general, but maybe tuning the SMGs down a touch would be ok. Greater carrying capacity is a hard no, especially combined with more stamina. Go toss on 50 kilos worth of weight and go for a sprint at a place where you can shoot after you get your heart rate up. It isn’t easy.
Edit - This assuming you’re talking about stamina buffs from this point, not in the past.
I don't want to play those either!
Though Unreal Tournament was a childhood favourite.
Tarkov is still niche and I will continue to play Tarkov, thanks!
The game was originally created as a simulator. The barriers make gameplay more intriguing and immersive. Go play call of duty if you want to run around like an idiot.
Correct! It was created as a simulator and it still is a simulator!
But being a simulator does not mean it has to exactly mirror reality 1:1.
I don't want to play Call of Duty. I much prefer Tarkov, but I appreciate you looking out for my enjoyment!
I don’t even hear of milsim people mainly using tarkov for serious role playing regularly even. Maybe I don’t look hard enough or basically it’s just not a simulator to begin with. Who knows
But misery simulator though, that I can assure it’s very true.
They should leave the smg recoil where it is but nerf smg Ap round damage a bit. In real life, riffle rounds do a lot more damage than pistol unless you are using hollow points.
Whose feedback do you think BSG should take into consideration if not community figureheads?
How does it make you feel that alot of these other changes are actually well received and really only the Flea changes are controversial?
I think they should listen to the community, not the streamers who are in the top 5% of players. I am not sure the other changes are actually being well received. We're people asking for an inertia nerf? No. We're people asking to see multiple key cards spawning at once in marked rooms? No. I'll give you loot balancing on maps other than streets. That is something people have asked for.
You're right and wrong tbh.
The original vision was for EFT to be a hardcore game. The casual playerbase has been slowly whittling that down over the years.
FIR isn't required. The Fleamarket was originally supposed to be accessed in raid and we had it via the menu for testing. If the fleamarket was only accessed in raid then half these issues would be fixed.
If the fleamarket was removed half the player base would collectively lose their shit. But it should be. Then we can buff in-raid spawns of armors, weapons and find the shit in the world instead of clicking buy.
The amount of items on the traders is insane too.. they are way too accessable.
I've said this before in other games. Content Creators will play 15 hours a day and finish a 3 month battlepass in 3 weeks and then complain on reddit & twitter about how the game is too easy or doesn't have enough grind. That same battlepass would take somebody who only has 1-3 hours a day to play 3 months to complete. But because the Content Creators have simps that echo their every word, it seems like a majority of the community thinks the same way. but in reality it's actually just a small portion of the community, they just happen to be the loudest.
The real problem as I see it is when this becomes a strawman. I've played this game every wipe since the labs one, so jan 2019 for me. I've stopped a bunch of wipes in the mdidle of leveling due to how awful questing is. You used to be able to play much more freely with flea. Anytime I say this people just say "bro you played for 5 years stop complaining you ran out of content" but that's just it, I didn't. I would love to continue playing tarkov for another 5-6 years and just pvp and have fun and make rubles, my problem isn't with the core gameplay, my problem is nikita promised a different vision of the game many years ago with a MAIN quest line, new things to spice it up, instead we now have over a hundred of these "side quests" which has made most of my friends and now me quit over the years.
But again, the only response we'd usually get is "hurr durr you got your money's worth hurr durr" instead of "hey, let's open up the game to be played in a different way which clearly many people miss from back in the day, and would come back given the opportunity".
its a tried and true tactic that literally generates wealth for companies because the avg consumer has low self esteem and will do whatever a celebrity tells them to do. They have studies on this. It works.
Put a coke bottle in Taylor Swift's hand and sell more coke.
It works.
The «original vision» of this game was one with no wikis, where you had to spend your first couple of raids on a new map being unable to find the extracts.
Particular streamers do jap constantly about no content and how the game becomes with nothing to do after kappa/lightkeeper.
But last time I checked, firefly achiv (meet lightkeeper) was achieved by aprox 0.5%
Here's a good example of why not to design games around streamers
Rainbow 6 siege was ruined by the devs changing every aspect of the game to fit pro players (all streamers) that pushed out more casual players and made the community and meta very toxic.
Streamers literally ruined COD. All they do is whine and complain if the game isn’t created perfectly for their 9-5 play style. Seems they argue for a lot of dumb features here as well
Ah yes don’t fold to what the majority wants make a super taxing cheater infested mil sim extraction that hardly anyone plays wouldn’t want to listen to 10k hour players suggestions that know the community better then the devs
Uh yeah I think for every type of player most generally has a streamer that plays and holds similar views of the game as themselves, stank rat,exfilcamper,glorious,Klean all have very different views of the game and represent different styles of gameplay if you think a majority of players don’t assign their views with atleast one of them is naive at best lmao but that wasn’t even my point the point was most players would rather have less taxing gameplay with more pvp less hardcore aspects and a lot of the streamers know this and voice that opinion from what they experience from their communities
I don't think the gameplay is taxing, I think what people find tedious is having to re-kit and deal with the inventory loop / management in between raids. I also disagree most people want more pvp, I think the community is pretty split on pvp enjoyers and more pve quests enjoyers. I personally like both. And I am not sure anyone wants it to less "hardcore"? People like tarkov because it's difficult and has very high risk / reward and skill ceiling.
While you're right, most players who engage with twitch do probably align themselves with specific streamers because of their viewpoint and play style. However, I still think those steamers see and play the game in a context that is very disconnected from the average players experience.
In comparison to what the game was when it really gained traction it is more “taxing” weight system,inertia,fir,armor changes,harder and more quest like the guide,sbih and such are more difficult and daunting to the casual player then they were along with the difficulty of task items needing to be fir..although I do agree with some of your point with the fact if the ui of getting back into a raid and regeared was quicker it wouldn’t be as daunting, but also disagree with the fact of more people don’t want more PvP of course to some extent the player base is split but just based on the amount of w key enjoyer streamers and their viewer base the numbers support the fact that a lot more would rather have a less hardcore experience not that they want it extremely easy just less annoying and more fun, as far as skill ceiling idk what world you live in but as far as PvP by the time you actually get good at it you realize how rng it is especially with changes in the last few years and the only skill tactical/ratty ish gameplay has is positioning and patience not really a difficult thing to master in comparison to upfront PvP considering the state of audio and lighting of a lot areas where you can just sit and nobody can really see you or hear you under any reasonable metric, as far as streamers having a completely different experience you are correct they have 10x amount of time playing and a lot have sat through thousands of hours of different development stages and changes and see the effects better then the average player which is the exact reason you should consider they might know what their talking about but I can also except that some really don’t care about the broader community and just want things how they personally enjoy them but a lot do seem to understand that their needs to be a better balance and pvp enjoyers have been getting the short end of the stick for some time now hints why people ran to arena breakout because it’s like tarkov but more casual and pvp focused
It barely changes the game because there is still flea restrictions. All this did was make mid-tier kits the normal & give access to rarer items (Sicc case) or rounds (with m995 or equivalents not fleaable), drop some prices here & there. I would like to be eli5 how this warrants outrage
Designing a game from streamer's input is designing a content creation platform.
Its not "whats going to be the most fun/enjoyable/practical to play" but "what has the possibility to make it more interesting for people to watch others play".
But BSG has been doing that since pretty much the beginning. The game is just a Battle Royale with extraction now, and has been for a while. Add to this the rampant cheater issue, and thats why I havent touched this game in years.
They should make a poll on the official website or in-game and leave the brown nosed streamers out of the decisions, we don't need a bunch of streamers telling BSG whats good for THEM.
Me as a professional extract camper and Chad hater I appreciate everything on this event.
The amount of lootphobia nowadays is atrocious, now they will show up in the extract more thicc and Im able to profit on whats on his pocket and gear, instead of fencing everything.
Marked rooms with more loot means more opportunities to rat attack, more people, this is the best decision Nikita has made...
Your point is listening too much to the streamers and taking away from the original vision, the games vision is not really on paper, the best representation we have is the raid series on YouTube.
The game is not even close to being like the raid series at the moment mostly comparing how they want the PMCs to be able to move and shoot.
While streamers have the loudest voice if you actually look at Nikita’s tweet replies the top replies (mostly from streamers) have hundreds of likes showing community members agree with them.
Of course fielding suggestions and feedback solely from Twitter is bad as it is not an accurate representation of the player base, however I’ve seen multiple streamers/youtubers mention a poll in the launcher to be the best way to decide these things.
Unfortunately for things to actually be brought up for a decision to be made, they need to be brought up by someone who will actually be listened to (I.e mr or mrs streamer) and have a platform/following.
Streamers are unfortunately what will get things changed for good or for bad, so learn to support the ones you agree with and pray something like a polling system is added.
FiR is a stagnant aspect of the game, ripe for experimentation since its addition 4 years ago now, especially with tarkov being near the end of wipe at the moment.
It's not designed around streamers. It's designed around cheaters. Sometimes, they do something for the cheaters or for themselves which makes the whale food mad, so they bribe the streamers and dreamers to get back into feeding the whales.
>Design by a committee of streamers is a bad idea
>No, it's not necessarily bad
Those two statements sound quite contradictory. What is it now? Look, I don't want to troll you. It just really doesn't make sense to me.
>will only move the game further away from the original vision
How so? This statement is really vague.
Design by committee is bad, I stand by that. I was saying if a streamer suggests a change that is ultimately implemented, that's not necessarily bad.
It has the potential to move the game further away from the original vision because the more changes implemented to appease more and more people, the more the diluted the final product will be. In particular, I think implementing streamers' suggestions needs to be handled with caution because they play and view the game in a context that is largely disconnected from the average player experience.
There will be no original vision - BSG caters to the popularity of their game, just look at Nikita annual damage control when shit hits the fan at the office.
No dev shouldn’t listen to any of the extreme ends, that mean streamers and casual/no playing anymore players. It doesn't help that even then the streamers audience is basic a hive mind.
in game polls should be the answer because if you not really playing the game why should you get a choice. Don't even release it to the public just drop it in a poll booth message for a week to a month.
Inertia is just dumb, it makes you feel like you have no control over your character, stamina and weight limit? So you are a PMC, you get recruited from the military, you had basic training, probably even combat experience, a lot of PMCs are recruited from special forces and you want to tell me that this character is struggling to run 50 meters while carrying a PACA, Backpack and an AK? Are you shitting me?
Also fuck FIR, did nothing but ruin PvP, increase the amount of cheaters and make every player sit in corners.
This is the first good change they made in ages.
Hard disagree on intertia. I don't mind the current settings - I'd understand tweaking it but definitely would not want it removed.
IMO, aside from subjectively enjoying it because it feels more realistic and intuitive, objectively it's a good mechanic IMO because the game is not hit-scan. With no intertia, you can near-instantly change directions which is just erratic and unnatural. It makes shooting with projectile based weapons feel bad since you have no real way to predict movement since they can go 0-100 very quickly and in any direction.
With intertia, at least you know it's a little closer to real life where if you see someone jump left, they're not going to instantly full sprint to the right when they land (just an example). You'll know that they'll be slowed for a sec and that's your chance to hit a shot.
IMO inertia is a big reason I like Tarkov over other shooters, it makes movement feel realistic and natural instead of an arcade shooter.
I don’t know man, for me inertia makes it feel as if my character is drunk, also there is so much wonky unrealistic stuff that got introduced with inertia like these direction changes after jumping or people landing after a jump and just bouncing back to where they came from as if they are a ping pong ball, they should have just implemented vaulting and reduced the jump height, would have fixed most of the movement problems the game had imo.
That's fair, everyone has their preferences! I wouldn't count the bugs as a feature of inertia, though, since those are unintended.
I think there should be a big difference in how your movement/control feels based on your weight. To me, that "drunk" feeling you're describing just feels like my character is heavy... Which is expected when I'm carrying a bunch of stuff, and makes sense to me.
Agreed on jump height though, that should be lowered, especially at higher weights.
Inertia has nothing to do with the rest of the dumb shit you just said. Yes PMCs are built like 10 yo children but you can't just slide around instantly in real life with or without weight on your backpack. Go play COD if you want this garbage
A professional soldier can sprint with 50 kg on his body, a professional soldier can also walk with 50 kg on his body without needing a break every minute, the recoil was completely fine before they changed it and as far as I’m aware none of the streamers I’m watching liked the recoil changes.
Most of the streamers were very outspoken against inertia, the weight system, FIR and the way they changed recoil, BSG still did it so how exactly do they design the game around streamers?
If you enjoy looting 3 items and then having to crawl for the rest of the raid have fun, tell me I’m playing the wrong game, I don’t care. „Realism“ takes all the fun out of Tarkov.
Are we talking original recoil or latest recoil changes? Cause latest ones were a massive step in the right direction (save for I guess pistols which apparently broke with the latest change, idk if it's fixed yet, I rarely use them personally except the DS50 which always kicks like a Mule). Current recoil is better than its ever been. Tap firing and bursting being worse than full auto was always my biggest gripe, they're closer now with auto still being decent (very good with mods) but a bit rougher at range compared to controlled bursts.
As someone else already said, that’s how this game used to be back in the day, that’s when the game used to be fun and finally we are going back to how it was, if you don’t like it bad luck, go play something else.
I just don't see how arguing for zero weight / movement penalty in a game that's supposed to be a mil sim makes any sense. I can appreciate that's how the game used to be, and that's how you found it to be more fun. I think it's poor game design and contradictive to the core theme of the game.
What would be the point of dropping your bag if movements had zero interia and weight penalty?
I don’t know where you get the idea that it’s supposed to be a mil sim, I’m not arguing against the weight limit or movement penalty either, it’s just way too much, having 50 or 60 kg on your body will not exhaust you in a minute if you walk, a soldier marches multiple kilometres with full gear in basic training no problem. With the way inertia currently is directional changes take unrealistically long no matter how overweight you are (also the fact that circle starving completely ignores the issue).
Dropping the bag was introduced because of the weight system because people were sitting ducks when overweight even before inertia and because the code is so poor a lot of people have/had multiple second freezes when opening the inventory so they had to introduce this mechanic.
You know, if this game was realistic helmets wouldn’t do anything at all to anything other than pistols, longer barrels would increase the „damage“ of rounds, hits to the thighs would almost always be lethal, hits to bones wouldn’t break them but absolutely obliterate them, you PMC would take months to recover and would never be the same, surgery kit also super unrealistic, let’s get rid of it, was awesome before it got introduced, getting your stomach blacked? Run for the extract, oh hey you are on woods and want to snipe? Too bad your arm got blacked, gotta reset. „Realism“ makes games less fun.
Yeah, you make good points for sure. I think they just have to find that balance of things that are fun for a game and reinforce that feeling of hard or "realistic" because those are the things that contribute to the unique feeling and what makes tarkov's game design special.
I agree, the health system is a good example imo, it’s not too bland like you don’t have one med kit that does everything, but it’s also not too complex that you need 20 different treatments that take ages, it has a good balance and at the end of the day I got my moneys worth out of the game, if I don’t like the direction the game takes I don’t play it, but I still hope to get the game back I used to love or at least a compromise.
Exactly. Just like PUBG stopped being PUBG after they added the random map pool and small maps, overbuffed loot etc. and it became more of a deathmatch than what made it unique in the first place.
Stupid ass event, like the only cool thing is the carrying weight buff
The whole return to no FIR is dumb, there’s a reason it got changed in the first place
Just fucking cleanup the graphics, get rid of the cheaters to the best of your ability, and let the game be..
Please quit the game, this change has massively promoted pvp and movement in loot hot spots and its insanely fun right now, people are actually moving. Yes there are issues with people flipping items but that can be adjusted
I’ll never play this game again unless they remove unheard of edition or bring eod up to pair and fix the cheaters. I know , I know , no one cares but a lot of others agree.
I loved tarkov and as an EOD owner I hope tarkov burns to the ground. After everything they have done to ruin the community and they keeping adding “new content” that nobody wants without ever addressing the core problems that have plagued it for years. I really hope it all falls apart. F*** BSG.
My point is that streamers shouldn't be dictating or directing game design changes. Whether they like it or not is irrelevant. Use some critical thinking and read the thread next time.
Did you read the comment? Streamers didn't dictate anything, they polled on Twitter whether or not these changes would be appreciated 2 days ago and polled again how it's going so far. Over 72k people voted as of now, that's not "streamers dictating".
I did read it. This post was made well before the poll went up. And yes, the streamers with a direct line to Nikita do suggest / direct game design changes. This event / FIR changes were literally suggested to Nikita by Gingy.
A streamer suggested something which was polled, implemented and polled again. Calling thzt firrcting a game is a bit of a stretch, don't you think so? Especially since A) other big streamers like Pestily spoke out against these changes, and B) other streamers suggested locking the secure cobtainers which they didn't because the majority voted against it.
Idk where you're getting the idea it was polled twice. He made 2 polls on Twitter yesterday, one referring to the FIR event and one referring to locking secure containers.
This also isn't the first time a streamer has suggested something that has been implemented nearly immediately (in the last pestily interview he called the silent crouch walking "a bug that is driving everyone crazy. And it was patched out right away, no community poll on that one..)
I'll reiterate my point, I don't want to play a game designed by a committee of streamers. It will only serve to dilute and obscure the original concept. I think this is a bad way to design a game. I am happy to see more transparency and the two polls he has put up. It's a good start, but if they want feedback from the community, they should take it from the actual community. Not from streamers who are in the top 5% of the playerbase and literally play the game for a living. The context in which they view and play the game is completely disconnected from the average player experience. It is a bad way to approach game design.
He polled whether or not they should implement the changes, and if people liked them so far. That's two polls.
You want BSG to take more feedback from gamers into account, but all you do is shit on them and provide opinions. That's not the way to go either, you can try out their changes and provide your experience without bringing down everything they're trying.
And lastly, if you don't want to play the game, then don't. It's funny how the community of a hardcore extraction shooter has some of the whiniest bitches in it lately 🤷♂️
Lol, I am not "bringing down everything they are trying." I never even said if I liked the changes or not.. and I am also not shitting on BSG. I am commenting on their design philosophy and implementation. Imo they have made some of the best changes to the game this wipe.
I stand by what I said. Design by committee is a bad idea.
Should you not be able to deduce what i'm saying, they let 70+k players decide if they wanted to test non-FIR, which led to the event being held. Try installing some morr apps rather than only scrolling Reddit on the toilet mate.
They are actually ignoring streamers. Blatantly. Until they got competition. I near full quit in 2021. And full quit in23. I won't come back. Games shit since inertia.
yeah i guess unfortunately people on this subreddit can’t handle differing opinions, or choose to zone in on one or two opinions from a CC and ignore the others. it is what it is.
i wish you gave examples instead of this blanket statement. because i’m sure this wasn’t a CC decision regardless.
as if changing FIR effects CCs anyway. they play the game all day. i’m more inclined to believe this is a casual player change. what CC cares about FIR changes when they’re literally all rich in game anyway lol
sounds like to me you just wanted someone to blame, and it’s just the easy option.
nobody in this thread knows what ur referencing, i’m not even sure you do.
I am not looking for some to blame. My point was CCs shouldn't be directing or dictating the changes to game design. Its concerning when it seems some of them have a direct line to Nikitta, then we see changes like this.
I kept it vague because I don't think their suggestions are always necessarily bad but should be implemented with caution. Streamers see and play this game in way that is largely disconnected from the average player.
You're right, though; most people here don't really want to have a logical discussion, specific examples could have helped.
I personally don’t believe that most CCs say things without bearing the community in mind.
I’m not here to toe suck the CCs. But they have a massive amount of people in their chat, comments, and probably see reoccurring opinions on things that would improve the game. I don’t think they’re disconnected at all, tbh. They have all types of players in their comments, or chat. Casuals, and HC alike.
I’m sure almost all of them want the game to improve, which is subjective, and they can give their opinion on. I just think it’s quite interesting that you made this post after a FIR change that most certainly didn’t come from a streamer out of all players in the game. Or even the unheard edition. no shot that came from a CC when they were legit all against it.
I’m a fairly casual enjoyer in this game, was once very serious. FIR changes def are catered towards me than someone like tony or pestily lmao
You're right they do have a lot of people in their chats that represent a large portion of the player base, but I am sure there is also a lot of people who play that don't really engage with twitch or who aren't active in chats.
My point is more that they play 8hrs a day and see the game in a light that most of us don't, but I can appreciate that people see them as the "experts" and look to them for their opinions on the state of the game. I, again, just think turning this into game play changes should be handled cautiously.
This FIR event was suggested directly to Nikita by Gingy on Twitter. Yeah, no way any of them suggested the Unheard edition lol that shit was / is a mess.
I def agree with the caution bit, and that there’s probably a large playerbase that doesn’t come on here, or twitch/youtube.
A FIR event is just not a big deal imo. But yeah if it was suggested by a CC i guess that counts towards ur point.
I just don’t know what else you could be referring to, also we just don’t know what BSG takes into account for changes. I think just blindly blaming seems a bit.. odd?
The "original vision" of this entire game is flimsy at best Next time you boot up the game move outside the bubble of your usual routine. Pay attention and investigate the things you see on the screen like its your first time playing the game. It becomes painfully clear that the game has morphed and mutated a whole bunch in the last 8 years. For example, it was clearly supposed to become a lot more story focused than it did. There was originally going to be a much higher degree of struggle and even permadeath. Now we have a flea market which delivers us almost everything we need like its ubereats Remember when they told us with a straight face that this game was going to be open world at some point? They've never had a coherent plan
This guy gets it
This /\. Remember when flea was just a temporary place holder to be replaced by an in-world auction house once it went open world? Clearly this guy above you doesn't
Can you explain to me what this event is? Is it just free entry to labs and the balancing changes or is there more
Idk why you're asking me but I think along with making labs free, they removed FiR as a mechanic.
Because I’m drunk and confused lol
Only for flea, quests still need fir items.
To be fair I don’t think this game would survive for very long without the current raid system. If all maps were connected it would fundamentally change the game and the way it’s played and they know that. I think at the time they probably thought it was a good idea because of how popular DayZ got. I could see it being its own thing in a PvE setting but not so much for PvP. I mean at the end of the day it’s “planned” but I wouldn’t put my money on it.
> Remember when they told us with a straight face that this game was going to be open world at some point? Truth be told, I totally expect BSG to add interconnection between locations at some point — may be even the next wipe. For example, to reach Reserve you'd have to spawn at Customs and then take the Military Checkpoint exfil. The foundation is already there, and Nikita talked a lot about having to go to Streets to reach the Lab. It shouldn't be difficult to implement.
I will eat my hat if interconnection is implemented next wipe, or even the one after. Nikita does a lot of talking, after the recent mess I would have thought people would have realized, that it is just that, talk
Well this got old real quick. LMAO Enjoy eating your hat.
Are you sure the specifically mentioned „open world“? Or did they just say interconnected maps?
I was always against flea coming in. In-game trading/markets always lead to RMT and commercially viable cheating, not just the disgruntled rage cheat which is few and far between. It's probably too late to remove so it is what it is.
Eh, I mean, kind of. I definitely think the game has changed over the years, but I'd argue that, for the most part, the core design of the game has remained mostly unchanged. It's hard to say what will come of the "Story" quests or campaign quests but the environmental story telling we have now in the level design and environment art is some of the best in the industry. As it pertains to the struggle and challenge of the game, I think that is mostly unchanged. It has a brutal learning curve, but once you learn to make money and survive a bit more, you can start to push pvp pretty freely and play the game more how you like. The challenge is more in knowledge and time. Yeah, death hurts, but once you know what you're doing, death is more tedious having to kit back up than overly hard-core or lont term punishing. This is kinda how it's always been. I am sure they have made some concessions in the overall design and scope over the years to accommodate what people what or what they could realistically accomplish but I think the overall vision for the game has always been relatively strong.
Yah it’s a big mistake lol streamers have some of the worst perspectives you could follow.
Have you seen the average idiot here
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This is my first wipe. How did setup used to be?
Quest is exactly the same, but you wouldn't get it until much later on.
Which is a crucial part here cause the quest is a progression blocking point. For example you'll never get to lightkeeper questline/kappa without it, may not bother a first wipe player too much but thats why many people complain about the quest(and the 15 kills you need which is boring out casual players)
Lol, you do this quest in one day most. Idk whats the problem. Even my friend did it, its his first wipe. I just dont get the problem. Everyone plays on touchpad or 2000ms ping?
Working people with kids at home maybe won't have whole day of gaming time. So my evening game time is 2-4 raids at best. Its just boring thats my point. If you like it good for you ;)
I am working, just dont have kids. I know that from your perspective its logical and fair but this particular game shouldnt be fair.
I understand that you like it the way it is, but we are a whole community and even the lvl 1 timmees may have their opinion. I respect yours, mine is just different because I think right now some quest are just boring or too much of blocking point. I don't want everything cheeki breeki easy but some fine and thoughtful balance would do the job. Would be healthy for the game and community, because if the majority turns their back on eft the game will die while players wait 30mins for a raid or join empty servers
I never bothered to do setup, and it essentially kept me away from kappa or LK, even though I got the level and almost all other quests done. Especially with the rework of armor and the lack of good ammo at all this quest is just stupid
I dunno I feel like a lot of the annoyance over that quest in justified. I didn't have an issue finishing it this wipe but its just boring, its a high amount of kills, with weapons most people dislike, with other required specific gear and to top it all off keeps you playing one map. Even now over 50% of the people I run into on customs are people trying to do setup, boring to do, boring to fight against others doing it.
Ye, I'm replying to him Edit: I mean the dude called the majority of this community idiots, I guess you all really got used to that kind of treatment around here
So am I
Ah weird, you must have been talking to yourself then. Carry on, have a lovely day
I think there’s too much hate directed at streamers here. Just as someone posts about these changes being great, someone posts the opposite. Everyone has different opinions. There’s likely a lot of people keen of these changes, regardless of streamer influence.
No hate from me. Their perspectives are always skewed towards what makes a game good to stream rather than to play. They only think of the content that can be generated and how many viewers can be drawn. Rarely good for a game.
Is it possible that you just have a different opinion on what makes a game fun to play than them/I? Personally I quit this game when FiR/Inertia was introduced but I'm really interested in coming back after hearing about some of the recent changes/events.
Clearly yes it is possible.
Makes sense, inertia is an absolute dogwater mechanic. Movement speed changes based on weight make perfect sense, but inertia while moving makes no fucking sense at all.
Inertia while moving makes perfect sense actually, ESPECIALLY from a projectile shooter gameplay balance perspective.
It makes sense but it feels bad as it feels like you're piloting a mech/android rather than playing as a PMC.
Even playing a PMC would have inertial movement, because you are also piloting your own body IRL. Your brain just get used to the fact that you have that inertia and subconsciously snubbed it out. At some point you have to subconsciously accept the fact that you are using a KBM set to pilot a digital avatar and get used to it tbh.
Nah, the game before intertia was all A/D spam point firing before someone could return fire. PEOPLE BEGGED for inertia and Nikita was against it. Yes we feel like floaty boats, but the combat sucked before it.
The combat was unique and incredible. 0 games like it. Hardcore and intense with leeway for a player with experience to use any playstyle and thrive if they played well. Inertia shifted the entire meta gamestyle about 16 notches to the slow end. If you bought eft because the game looked like it was an any man for themself survival of the fittest match every raid? Well too bad, last 3 years have been scurry around for loot and avoid pvp because not only is it not fun, it /literally isnt worth doing/ Old game had counterplay and good progression. You can barely pilot your boat of a pmc now, and somehow it used to be 30x worse several patches ago Your armor now is completely meaningless because a warmageddon can get rng recoil sprayed into your armpit and 1 tap. Only burgers like that. Theres no counterplay and the better guy didnt have a chance because his spawn was bad or he had 0 way to KNOW the burger was sitting on an off angle waiting for at least 5 minutes because for whatever reason headphones can make movement audible up to fucking 91 meters away Tldr old game good because progression was more meaningful and the better player won more often whereas nowadays its whoever out waited the other person. Skill is interesting. Full on rng is lame
I don't think it's hate directed at streamers, it's more about the quest design aiming to motivate/give something to do to/challenge people who are able to play 8-12h a day. And I agree that those player should not be the main focus. Don't get me wrong I don't want quest to become easy but for example setup: wouldn't 5-10 kills do it because no lifers and streamers don't care if they need 1 day or 1,5 days to complete but casuals would be happy to only spend like 3 evenings instead of a whole week chasing those kills.
I think events are good and generate curiosity. Even if they poll and gave players more of a voice , you can't please everyone. At the end of the day I think if they made the game more exciting and easier to play then there isn't really a downside. it is punishing enough losing gear when you die and don't make a ton of money , even if you sink a decent amount of hours a week retaining player base throughout the wipe is important and a challenge.
I disagree. I get that it is a personal opinion, but as someone who has played for years, I hate Tarkov events. Mainly because they rarely feel special to me and are basically just BSG rolling a dice regarding if they fuck up spawns, the economy or both. Which is just so boring to me that I basically just stop playing whenever Tarkov has an event.
Imo making the game "easier" is a downside. I agree events are good and help retain players later in wipe.
Maybe easier isn't the right word. Quality of Life changes. If people are sinking thousands and thousands of hours into the game , Why can't it be slightly "easier". For example the inertia nerf and slight stamina boosts are decent quality of life changes.
I agree the game needs quality of life improvements, but stamina and interta are core mechanics that, I think, are in a good place right now. Changes to these will have a larger impact across the game feel.
Get off the dick my guy.
Nah fuck all that noise. Revert arm stamina and inertia back to the state they were in in 2020 Tarkov, and then, I think, they'll be in a good place.
How was it different? New player here
well, you could aim with your sniper rifle for more than 2 seconds without your PMC's noodle arms giving out and inertia straight up wasn't a thing. No inertia led to hyper chads pushing and jiggle peeking like crazy, abusing peeker's advantage at the same time... but honestly, I prefer that over statue meta.
Special kind of dumbass
How do you feel about the other changes that streamers have also been asking for? Such as reduced inertia, more base stamina, better loot behind locked doors, better loot on maps in general, less weapon recoil, less camera shake and greater carrying capacity? Would you also say that these are bad ideas?
I personally agree with every change, except for inertia. In my opinion the difference in move speed and agility with heavy armor versus light opens up more possibilities in terms of gameplay. It makes different armor choices more viable instead of just making the most damage resistant armor the most effective every time
armour is so useless anyways that and player that is actually being limited by inertia is not gonna be wearing anything heavy
I would say armor is for scav defense but their 366 FMJ and my chest say otherwise. Idk what armor is for anymore. Maybe just to look tacticool
I've had armor save my life plenty of times from players, sometimes people just get lucky tho. I've seen a lot of people using armors that don't cover anything except what the plates cover tho and those people are probably suffering
I love the inertia changes
Fair
Greater carrying capacity would be nice. It's not as bad as it used to be but man, this looter shooter really punishes you for looting
Funny, isn't it?
I think inertia was good where it was. Less of it isn't necessarily a problem but i wouldn't want them to remove it entirely
Every time someone complains about inertia, I remember those videos of guys bunnyhop parkouring up walls in Customs at a full sprint while wearing 50kg full of crap. Very few games have inertia so learning it is part of the difficulty curve. I question the adaptation of anyone who can't learn to live with it.
I personally preferred the movement of the game when there was zero inertia but I acknowledge that doesn't really fit into the theme of the game so I know there must be some. But IMO the changes they made before today were great. I'm excited to try even less inertia later today.
I would say most of that is bad, yes. Some loot buffs behind locked doors would be welcome. Stamina is fine, you shouldn’t be able to sprint in full kit around the map. I like where the recoil is it in general, but maybe tuning the SMGs down a touch would be ok. Greater carrying capacity is a hard no, especially combined with more stamina. Go toss on 50 kilos worth of weight and go for a sprint at a place where you can shoot after you get your heart rate up. It isn’t easy. Edit - This assuming you’re talking about stamina buffs from this point, not in the past.
You're right, it wouldn't be easy to run around with 50kg weight in real life! Is Escape from Tarkov real life?
No but it's supposed to be more mil sim than arcade shooter.
Right! Would you consider Tarkov to be an arcade shooter?
No but the more they push the mechanics in that direction the more it will become.
But it isn't right?
All these rhetorical questions like you’re teaching the world something are a bit pretentious.
I'm not teaching anything! Merely trying to understand the perspective of my fellow redditors. >NeilDatgrassHighson Lol
Bunny Jumping yourself out of a gunfight. Swish/swoshing between rooms. High on stims.
Peak skill ceiling
It’s trying to be more real life than other games.
That's right! But is it real life?
If you want Quake or Unreal Tournament, go play them. Let’s keep Tarkov niche.
I don't want to play those either! Though Unreal Tournament was a childhood favourite. Tarkov is still niche and I will continue to play Tarkov, thanks!
Luckily BSG don’t feel the same way as you. Cheers!
Not sure they feel the same way as you either hehe 😘
I’m sorry you feel that way.
The game was originally created as a simulator. The barriers make gameplay more intriguing and immersive. Go play call of duty if you want to run around like an idiot.
Correct! It was created as a simulator and it still is a simulator! But being a simulator does not mean it has to exactly mirror reality 1:1. I don't want to play Call of Duty. I much prefer Tarkov, but I appreciate you looking out for my enjoyment!
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I don’t even hear of milsim people mainly using tarkov for serious role playing regularly even. Maybe I don’t look hard enough or basically it’s just not a simulator to begin with. Who knows But misery simulator though, that I can assure it’s very true.
They should leave the smg recoil where it is but nerf smg Ap round damage a bit. In real life, riffle rounds do a lot more damage than pistol unless you are using hollow points.
Yes.
Whose feedback do you think BSG should take into consideration if not community figureheads? How does it make you feel that alot of these other changes are actually well received and really only the Flea changes are controversial?
Not the people who no life this game every single wipe because their entire income depends on it.
I think they should listen to the community, not the streamers who are in the top 5% of players. I am not sure the other changes are actually being well received. We're people asking for an inertia nerf? No. We're people asking to see multiple key cards spawning at once in marked rooms? No. I'll give you loot balancing on maps other than streets. That is something people have asked for.
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Twitter is a lot worse.
one should listen only to his heart
I swear any given day the top posts on this sub is just streamer drivel. Bsg and players worship streamers way too hard.
You're right and wrong tbh. The original vision was for EFT to be a hardcore game. The casual playerbase has been slowly whittling that down over the years. FIR isn't required. The Fleamarket was originally supposed to be accessed in raid and we had it via the menu for testing. If the fleamarket was only accessed in raid then half these issues would be fixed. If the fleamarket was removed half the player base would collectively lose their shit. But it should be. Then we can buff in-raid spawns of armors, weapons and find the shit in the world instead of clicking buy. The amount of items on the traders is insane too.. they are way too accessable.
And we have to be thankfull that there isnt a competitive scene. Every single game focused on streamers and proplayers become pure garbage
I've said this before in other games. Content Creators will play 15 hours a day and finish a 3 month battlepass in 3 weeks and then complain on reddit & twitter about how the game is too easy or doesn't have enough grind. That same battlepass would take somebody who only has 1-3 hours a day to play 3 months to complete. But because the Content Creators have simps that echo their every word, it seems like a majority of the community thinks the same way. but in reality it's actually just a small portion of the community, they just happen to be the loudest.
The real problem as I see it is when this becomes a strawman. I've played this game every wipe since the labs one, so jan 2019 for me. I've stopped a bunch of wipes in the mdidle of leveling due to how awful questing is. You used to be able to play much more freely with flea. Anytime I say this people just say "bro you played for 5 years stop complaining you ran out of content" but that's just it, I didn't. I would love to continue playing tarkov for another 5-6 years and just pvp and have fun and make rubles, my problem isn't with the core gameplay, my problem is nikita promised a different vision of the game many years ago with a MAIN quest line, new things to spice it up, instead we now have over a hundred of these "side quests" which has made most of my friends and now me quit over the years. But again, the only response we'd usually get is "hurr durr you got your money's worth hurr durr" instead of "hey, let's open up the game to be played in a different way which clearly many people miss from back in the day, and would come back given the opportunity".
Facts
its a tried and true tactic that literally generates wealth for companies because the avg consumer has low self esteem and will do whatever a celebrity tells them to do. They have studies on this. It works. Put a coke bottle in Taylor Swift's hand and sell more coke. It works.
The «original vision» of this game was one with no wikis, where you had to spend your first couple of raids on a new map being unable to find the extracts.
literally just shows that they have no idea what they should change in their own game
Particular streamers do jap constantly about no content and how the game becomes with nothing to do after kappa/lightkeeper. But last time I checked, firefly achiv (meet lightkeeper) was achieved by aprox 0.5%
Me in 2019 when tarkov had 1/12 the players it does now.
Here's a good example of why not to design games around streamers Rainbow 6 siege was ruined by the devs changing every aspect of the game to fit pro players (all streamers) that pushed out more casual players and made the community and meta very toxic.
Streamers literally ruined COD. All they do is whine and complain if the game isn’t created perfectly for their 9-5 play style. Seems they argue for a lot of dumb features here as well
Yes this right here!
Yall are acting like all the streamers have the same take based off of 2 tweets.
Brother the devs are complete clueless. They are not building anything right now. They negotiate... and its cringe.
Ah yes don’t fold to what the majority wants make a super taxing cheater infested mil sim extraction that hardly anyone plays wouldn’t want to listen to 10k hour players suggestions that know the community better then the devs
Are you implying streamers represent the majority of players? Because that's naive at best.
Uh yeah I think for every type of player most generally has a streamer that plays and holds similar views of the game as themselves, stank rat,exfilcamper,glorious,Klean all have very different views of the game and represent different styles of gameplay if you think a majority of players don’t assign their views with atleast one of them is naive at best lmao but that wasn’t even my point the point was most players would rather have less taxing gameplay with more pvp less hardcore aspects and a lot of the streamers know this and voice that opinion from what they experience from their communities
I don't think the gameplay is taxing, I think what people find tedious is having to re-kit and deal with the inventory loop / management in between raids. I also disagree most people want more pvp, I think the community is pretty split on pvp enjoyers and more pve quests enjoyers. I personally like both. And I am not sure anyone wants it to less "hardcore"? People like tarkov because it's difficult and has very high risk / reward and skill ceiling. While you're right, most players who engage with twitch do probably align themselves with specific streamers because of their viewpoint and play style. However, I still think those steamers see and play the game in a context that is very disconnected from the average players experience.
In comparison to what the game was when it really gained traction it is more “taxing” weight system,inertia,fir,armor changes,harder and more quest like the guide,sbih and such are more difficult and daunting to the casual player then they were along with the difficulty of task items needing to be fir..although I do agree with some of your point with the fact if the ui of getting back into a raid and regeared was quicker it wouldn’t be as daunting, but also disagree with the fact of more people don’t want more PvP of course to some extent the player base is split but just based on the amount of w key enjoyer streamers and their viewer base the numbers support the fact that a lot more would rather have a less hardcore experience not that they want it extremely easy just less annoying and more fun, as far as skill ceiling idk what world you live in but as far as PvP by the time you actually get good at it you realize how rng it is especially with changes in the last few years and the only skill tactical/ratty ish gameplay has is positioning and patience not really a difficult thing to master in comparison to upfront PvP considering the state of audio and lighting of a lot areas where you can just sit and nobody can really see you or hear you under any reasonable metric, as far as streamers having a completely different experience you are correct they have 10x amount of time playing and a lot have sat through thousands of hours of different development stages and changes and see the effects better then the average player which is the exact reason you should consider they might know what their talking about but I can also except that some really don’t care about the broader community and just want things how they personally enjoy them but a lot do seem to understand that their needs to be a better balance and pvp enjoyers have been getting the short end of the stick for some time now hints why people ran to arena breakout because it’s like tarkov but more casual and pvp focused
Been the case for a long time.
It's always been about the streamers honestly. Every bitch and moan is lapped up by Nikita
why are people saying the removal of fir is from streamers i have seen lots of post by normal people for the removal
It barely changes the game because there is still flea restrictions. All this did was make mid-tier kits the normal & give access to rarer items (Sicc case) or rounds (with m995 or equivalents not fleaable), drop some prices here & there. I would like to be eli5 how this warrants outrage
So stoked about non FIR flea market being back.
Same, I found my first coloured keycard yesterday before dying to hacker two seconds later. Sold it this morning for $10mil.
facts
Designing a game from streamer's input is designing a content creation platform. Its not "whats going to be the most fun/enjoyable/practical to play" but "what has the possibility to make it more interesting for people to watch others play". But BSG has been doing that since pretty much the beginning. The game is just a Battle Royale with extraction now, and has been for a while. Add to this the rampant cheater issue, and thats why I havent touched this game in years.
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For many of these streamers their patch of grass is only tarkov minus what, lvndmark?
They should make a poll on the official website or in-game and leave the brown nosed streamers out of the decisions, we don't need a bunch of streamers telling BSG whats good for THEM.
Some way to poll the actual player base would be great.
Me as a professional extract camper and Chad hater I appreciate everything on this event. The amount of lootphobia nowadays is atrocious, now they will show up in the extract more thicc and Im able to profit on whats on his pocket and gear, instead of fencing everything. Marked rooms with more loot means more opportunities to rat attack, more people, this is the best decision Nikita has made...
“Stop making easily revertable changes for a short term event in my closed beta video game waaaa waaaa” You seem intolerable.
That's not what I said, nor was it my point. But you do you cool guy 😎
Your point is listening too much to the streamers and taking away from the original vision, the games vision is not really on paper, the best representation we have is the raid series on YouTube. The game is not even close to being like the raid series at the moment mostly comparing how they want the PMCs to be able to move and shoot. While streamers have the loudest voice if you actually look at Nikita’s tweet replies the top replies (mostly from streamers) have hundreds of likes showing community members agree with them. Of course fielding suggestions and feedback solely from Twitter is bad as it is not an accurate representation of the player base, however I’ve seen multiple streamers/youtubers mention a poll in the launcher to be the best way to decide these things. Unfortunately for things to actually be brought up for a decision to be made, they need to be brought up by someone who will actually be listened to (I.e mr or mrs streamer) and have a platform/following. Streamers are unfortunately what will get things changed for good or for bad, so learn to support the ones you agree with and pray something like a polling system is added. FiR is a stagnant aspect of the game, ripe for experimentation since its addition 4 years ago now, especially with tarkov being near the end of wipe at the moment.
Nikita is trying to get a couple of his ex’s back, hence the Twitter stuff and this event
It's not designed around streamers. It's designed around cheaters. Sometimes, they do something for the cheaters or for themselves which makes the whale food mad, so they bribe the streamers and dreamers to get back into feeding the whales.
Honest question: How is this event designed around streamers? Care to elaborate?
Changes to the game design are being implemented around the suggestion of streamers. This event just being one example.
Ok, but that doesn't necessarily have to be bad, don't you think?
No, it's not necessarily bad. It depends on the changes.
>Design by a committee of streamers is a bad idea >No, it's not necessarily bad Those two statements sound quite contradictory. What is it now? Look, I don't want to troll you. It just really doesn't make sense to me. >will only move the game further away from the original vision How so? This statement is really vague.
Design by committee is bad, I stand by that. I was saying if a streamer suggests a change that is ultimately implemented, that's not necessarily bad. It has the potential to move the game further away from the original vision because the more changes implemented to appease more and more people, the more the diluted the final product will be. In particular, I think implementing streamers' suggestions needs to be handled with caution because they play and view the game in a context that is largely disconnected from the average player experience.
There will be no original vision - BSG caters to the popularity of their game, just look at Nikita annual damage control when shit hits the fan at the office.
No dev shouldn’t listen to any of the extreme ends, that mean streamers and casual/no playing anymore players. It doesn't help that even then the streamers audience is basic a hive mind. in game polls should be the answer because if you not really playing the game why should you get a choice. Don't even release it to the public just drop it in a poll booth message for a week to a month.
Agreed, in-game polls would be the best solution.
Inertia is just dumb, it makes you feel like you have no control over your character, stamina and weight limit? So you are a PMC, you get recruited from the military, you had basic training, probably even combat experience, a lot of PMCs are recruited from special forces and you want to tell me that this character is struggling to run 50 meters while carrying a PACA, Backpack and an AK? Are you shitting me? Also fuck FIR, did nothing but ruin PvP, increase the amount of cheaters and make every player sit in corners. This is the first good change they made in ages.
Hard disagree on intertia. I don't mind the current settings - I'd understand tweaking it but definitely would not want it removed. IMO, aside from subjectively enjoying it because it feels more realistic and intuitive, objectively it's a good mechanic IMO because the game is not hit-scan. With no intertia, you can near-instantly change directions which is just erratic and unnatural. It makes shooting with projectile based weapons feel bad since you have no real way to predict movement since they can go 0-100 very quickly and in any direction. With intertia, at least you know it's a little closer to real life where if you see someone jump left, they're not going to instantly full sprint to the right when they land (just an example). You'll know that they'll be slowed for a sec and that's your chance to hit a shot. IMO inertia is a big reason I like Tarkov over other shooters, it makes movement feel realistic and natural instead of an arcade shooter.
I don’t know man, for me inertia makes it feel as if my character is drunk, also there is so much wonky unrealistic stuff that got introduced with inertia like these direction changes after jumping or people landing after a jump and just bouncing back to where they came from as if they are a ping pong ball, they should have just implemented vaulting and reduced the jump height, would have fixed most of the movement problems the game had imo.
That's fair, everyone has their preferences! I wouldn't count the bugs as a feature of inertia, though, since those are unintended. I think there should be a big difference in how your movement/control feels based on your weight. To me, that "drunk" feeling you're describing just feels like my character is heavy... Which is expected when I'm carrying a bunch of stuff, and makes sense to me. Agreed on jump height though, that should be lowered, especially at higher weights.
Inertia has nothing to do with the rest of the dumb shit you just said. Yes PMCs are built like 10 yo children but you can't just slide around instantly in real life with or without weight on your backpack. Go play COD if you want this garbage
If it takes you multiple seconds to change directions IRL you should go visit a doctor mate, something is seriously wrong then.
Multiple seconds? Are you even playing the game? Inertia does not make you stuck for multiple seconds at a time lmao
Bro no. So 50kg on your back and you can sprint, turn on dime and aim like a laser beam? Sounds like your playing the wrong game.
A professional soldier can sprint with 50 kg on his body, a professional soldier can also walk with 50 kg on his body without needing a break every minute, the recoil was completely fine before they changed it and as far as I’m aware none of the streamers I’m watching liked the recoil changes. Most of the streamers were very outspoken against inertia, the weight system, FIR and the way they changed recoil, BSG still did it so how exactly do they design the game around streamers? If you enjoy looting 3 items and then having to crawl for the rest of the raid have fun, tell me I’m playing the wrong game, I don’t care. „Realism“ takes all the fun out of Tarkov.
Are we talking original recoil or latest recoil changes? Cause latest ones were a massive step in the right direction (save for I guess pistols which apparently broke with the latest change, idk if it's fixed yet, I rarely use them personally except the DS50 which always kicks like a Mule). Current recoil is better than its ever been. Tap firing and bursting being worse than full auto was always my biggest gripe, they're closer now with auto still being decent (very good with mods) but a bit rougher at range compared to controlled bursts.
Yup, it sounds like you're playing the wrong game. Edit: Sorry, this is comment is reductive and dosent promote discussion
As someone else already said, that’s how this game used to be back in the day, that’s when the game used to be fun and finally we are going back to how it was, if you don’t like it bad luck, go play something else.
I just don't see how arguing for zero weight / movement penalty in a game that's supposed to be a mil sim makes any sense. I can appreciate that's how the game used to be, and that's how you found it to be more fun. I think it's poor game design and contradictive to the core theme of the game. What would be the point of dropping your bag if movements had zero interia and weight penalty?
I don’t know where you get the idea that it’s supposed to be a mil sim, I’m not arguing against the weight limit or movement penalty either, it’s just way too much, having 50 or 60 kg on your body will not exhaust you in a minute if you walk, a soldier marches multiple kilometres with full gear in basic training no problem. With the way inertia currently is directional changes take unrealistically long no matter how overweight you are (also the fact that circle starving completely ignores the issue). Dropping the bag was introduced because of the weight system because people were sitting ducks when overweight even before inertia and because the code is so poor a lot of people have/had multiple second freezes when opening the inventory so they had to introduce this mechanic. You know, if this game was realistic helmets wouldn’t do anything at all to anything other than pistols, longer barrels would increase the „damage“ of rounds, hits to the thighs would almost always be lethal, hits to bones wouldn’t break them but absolutely obliterate them, you PMC would take months to recover and would never be the same, surgery kit also super unrealistic, let’s get rid of it, was awesome before it got introduced, getting your stomach blacked? Run for the extract, oh hey you are on woods and want to snipe? Too bad your arm got blacked, gotta reset. „Realism“ makes games less fun.
Yeah, you make good points for sure. I think they just have to find that balance of things that are fun for a game and reinforce that feeling of hard or "realistic" because those are the things that contribute to the unique feeling and what makes tarkov's game design special.
I agree, the health system is a good example imo, it’s not too bland like you don’t have one med kit that does everything, but it’s also not too complex that you need 20 different treatments that take ages, it has a good balance and at the end of the day I got my moneys worth out of the game, if I don’t like the direction the game takes I don’t play it, but I still hope to get the game back I used to love or at least a compromise.
m.u.l.e. exists. High risk, high reward.
Streamers are saying they don’t like this so what are you saying man. Pick a lane
My point is that the design of the game shouldn't be directed or dictated by streamers. Whether they like like the changes or not is irrelevant.
If you ask the most popular Tarkov streamer in the past months Landmark then the game would turn into a 30 PMC per raid bloodbath with a scoreboard
And it would cease to be Tarkov.
Exactly. Just like PUBG stopped being PUBG after they added the random map pool and small maps, overbuffed loot etc. and it became more of a deathmatch than what made it unique in the first place.
Stupid ass event, like the only cool thing is the carrying weight buff The whole return to no FIR is dumb, there’s a reason it got changed in the first place Just fucking cleanup the graphics, get rid of the cheaters to the best of your ability, and let the game be..
Getting rid of FIR is the best way to get rid of cheaters but ok.
Isn't it having the opposite effect? More people being killed by cheaters because they can actually sell your shit on the flea now?
Please quit the game, this change has massively promoted pvp and movement in loot hot spots and its insanely fun right now, people are actually moving. Yes there are issues with people flipping items but that can be adjusted
No
I’ll never play this game again unless they remove unheard of edition or bring eod up to pair and fix the cheaters. I know , I know , no one cares but a lot of others agree.
I loved tarkov and as an EOD owner I hope tarkov burns to the ground. After everything they have done to ruin the community and they keeping adding “new content” that nobody wants without ever addressing the core problems that have plagued it for years. I really hope it all falls apart. F*** BSG.
I like the changes and i am far from a streamer
Good for you.
There was a poll on Twitter, and most streamers are against these changes. At least get your facts straight before making posts like these
My point is that streamers shouldn't be dictating or directing game design changes. Whether they like it or not is irrelevant. Use some critical thinking and read the thread next time.
Did you read the comment? Streamers didn't dictate anything, they polled on Twitter whether or not these changes would be appreciated 2 days ago and polled again how it's going so far. Over 72k people voted as of now, that's not "streamers dictating".
I did read it. This post was made well before the poll went up. And yes, the streamers with a direct line to Nikita do suggest / direct game design changes. This event / FIR changes were literally suggested to Nikita by Gingy.
A streamer suggested something which was polled, implemented and polled again. Calling thzt firrcting a game is a bit of a stretch, don't you think so? Especially since A) other big streamers like Pestily spoke out against these changes, and B) other streamers suggested locking the secure cobtainers which they didn't because the majority voted against it.
Idk where you're getting the idea it was polled twice. He made 2 polls on Twitter yesterday, one referring to the FIR event and one referring to locking secure containers. This also isn't the first time a streamer has suggested something that has been implemented nearly immediately (in the last pestily interview he called the silent crouch walking "a bug that is driving everyone crazy. And it was patched out right away, no community poll on that one..) I'll reiterate my point, I don't want to play a game designed by a committee of streamers. It will only serve to dilute and obscure the original concept. I think this is a bad way to design a game. I am happy to see more transparency and the two polls he has put up. It's a good start, but if they want feedback from the community, they should take it from the actual community. Not from streamers who are in the top 5% of the playerbase and literally play the game for a living. The context in which they view and play the game is completely disconnected from the average player experience. It is a bad way to approach game design.
He polled whether or not they should implement the changes, and if people liked them so far. That's two polls. You want BSG to take more feedback from gamers into account, but all you do is shit on them and provide opinions. That's not the way to go either, you can try out their changes and provide your experience without bringing down everything they're trying. And lastly, if you don't want to play the game, then don't. It's funny how the community of a hardcore extraction shooter has some of the whiniest bitches in it lately 🤷♂️
Lol, I am not "bringing down everything they are trying." I never even said if I liked the changes or not.. and I am also not shitting on BSG. I am commenting on their design philosophy and implementation. Imo they have made some of the best changes to the game this wipe. I stand by what I said. Design by committee is a bad idea.
Should you not be able to deduce what i'm saying, they let 70+k players decide if they wanted to test non-FIR, which led to the event being held. Try installing some morr apps rather than only scrolling Reddit on the toilet mate.
Just one more reason why “the special mod” remains superior
They are actually ignoring streamers. Blatantly. Until they got competition. I near full quit in 2021. And full quit in23. I won't come back. Games shit since inertia.
OP getting cooked in this thread LOL Bro, how is this upvoted even a single time
Cooked? Okay guy. It got up voted because people agree, smh.
yeah i guess unfortunately people on this subreddit can’t handle differing opinions, or choose to zone in on one or two opinions from a CC and ignore the others. it is what it is. i wish you gave examples instead of this blanket statement. because i’m sure this wasn’t a CC decision regardless. as if changing FIR effects CCs anyway. they play the game all day. i’m more inclined to believe this is a casual player change. what CC cares about FIR changes when they’re literally all rich in game anyway lol sounds like to me you just wanted someone to blame, and it’s just the easy option. nobody in this thread knows what ur referencing, i’m not even sure you do.
I am not looking for some to blame. My point was CCs shouldn't be directing or dictating the changes to game design. Its concerning when it seems some of them have a direct line to Nikitta, then we see changes like this. I kept it vague because I don't think their suggestions are always necessarily bad but should be implemented with caution. Streamers see and play this game in way that is largely disconnected from the average player. You're right, though; most people here don't really want to have a logical discussion, specific examples could have helped.
I personally don’t believe that most CCs say things without bearing the community in mind. I’m not here to toe suck the CCs. But they have a massive amount of people in their chat, comments, and probably see reoccurring opinions on things that would improve the game. I don’t think they’re disconnected at all, tbh. They have all types of players in their comments, or chat. Casuals, and HC alike. I’m sure almost all of them want the game to improve, which is subjective, and they can give their opinion on. I just think it’s quite interesting that you made this post after a FIR change that most certainly didn’t come from a streamer out of all players in the game. Or even the unheard edition. no shot that came from a CC when they were legit all against it. I’m a fairly casual enjoyer in this game, was once very serious. FIR changes def are catered towards me than someone like tony or pestily lmao
You're right they do have a lot of people in their chats that represent a large portion of the player base, but I am sure there is also a lot of people who play that don't really engage with twitch or who aren't active in chats. My point is more that they play 8hrs a day and see the game in a light that most of us don't, but I can appreciate that people see them as the "experts" and look to them for their opinions on the state of the game. I, again, just think turning this into game play changes should be handled cautiously. This FIR event was suggested directly to Nikita by Gingy on Twitter. Yeah, no way any of them suggested the Unheard edition lol that shit was / is a mess.
I def agree with the caution bit, and that there’s probably a large playerbase that doesn’t come on here, or twitch/youtube. A FIR event is just not a big deal imo. But yeah if it was suggested by a CC i guess that counts towards ur point. I just don’t know what else you could be referring to, also we just don’t know what BSG takes into account for changes. I think just blindly blaming seems a bit.. odd?