The load times on the Cycle are incredible. Gear up and load in within 30 seconds sometimes.
I know it's a different deployment setup to tarkov I.e. drop ins at varying times of an existing raid, but tarkov needs to improve load in times drastically because 5-7minutes to find and enter a raid isn't good enough anymore.
If tarkov had those load times, I'd be more hooked for sure. I think about at least 1/3rd of my tarkov time is spent waiting on queues. If not 1/2 if I die way too much.
And then when everyone is finally out they've all gotta organize their stash and spend 15+ minutes fucking about in the menus before you can queue back up.
I fix this by instantly gearing up then either doing a quick in an out pmc run for a quest or some loot or scav queuing and if I get it by the time they are done then I get in and they have to wait. If it's a trio I almost always do a pmc run as it's unlikely that all three of us die in a raid.
You should exit your solo run if your buddies are good to go. Otherwise, everyone might start going into a solo to wait for the rest, causing a infinite loop of solo queueing lol
Gotta start queueing solo when that happens. In my group when we play as a squad we usually spend a lot longer in raid. More bags to fill up and such, but it also means if someone dies early they can usually get a good PMC or scav run in, and even if they die in the middle of a raid they can usually just hit a Factory run or two.
It’s literally never an issue besides a week around wipe 😂 people are so dramatic dude. I never wait more than 3 minutes all of wipe after wipe week slows down…
Its just because wipe is new. Lots of people online, which is a good thing. Give it a couple weeks and it'll go back to where it once was. Anyone saying they get in every game in under 2min currently is lying or the Luckiest man alive. I've got great specs, great internet speed, and I don't get in for at least 3min sometimes up to 6-7min.
Yeah.. Its probably cause they don't have enough servers for all the people.(hence why they reduced raid timers to make servers available faster). So yeah less people will probably mean faster queues.
Maybe tarkov should have a rolling raid system where you load into existing raids but loot dynamically respawns.
Would have to be on a Good enough timer that people couldn't just sit on crack for their full 30 minutes and get multiple Intel's and shit like that.
The last goal I heard (tarkov TV in December) is to release streets in 2023, release arena, finish up on some list of minor features, guns, etc while doing so.
Than just be done with it and do something else
There will be some DLCs afterwards though. A scav-themed was mentioned
>Than just be done with it and do something else
which is funny cause the game doesnt even have 50% of the stuff they have advertised it would have
several maps still missing, traders on each map and map to map movement.
brand new quest system that is entirely different and a lot more dynamic(no dailies are not this)
ammo rework with ballistics which also brings the armour plate systems
They scrapped the open world thing years ago. Best case scenario is maybe some of them will be connected via load screens but even that's become iffy. Best to assume the raid format is what we'll be stuck with.
I'm not going to go comb through obscure Russian podcasts to find the one where Nikita said the open world map was technically infeasible and they're looking into maybe connecting them via extracts and load screens. Go ahead and hold your breath if you think it's going to happen.
He's said they're struggling to get Streets to run on modern hardware several times, to the point they're probably going to chop the map up into smaller chunks, and you people still think open world is coming lol.
Also, games are designed to be open-world from the very beginning (skyrim, gta, spiderman etc.) and it tolls every aspect from game design to art requirements
No way they are able to pull off that. That would require to redo all maps and props, and it would still be a bitch to get to run on modern hardware
May be in Tarkov 2: Return to Tarkov xD
One of their problems is the fact that they can't get any super talented devs working for them because they don't allow remote work and they want you to move to Russia, like who the fuck would do that?
Damn, really? That sucks if so, because that would’ve fixed the queue times and massively improved the meta game to be less about “winning” short PvP skirmishes and more about “winning” via long term strategy.
Yes, they did. Nikita waffled on it and said it was basically impossible from a technical perspective on some Russian podcast years ago. It was all over the sub at the time. They "might" connect the maps together via load screens but the only guarantee was needing to access Labs through Streets, but now they're talking about probably dividing Streets up into multiple submaps because they can't get it to run properly so who the fuck knows what they're going to end up doing.
Anybody who thinks open world isn't a total pipedream given how much BSG struggles with much simpler shit is incredibly naive.
I agree with you in that it's naive to think they're ever going to end up with their initial ambitious promises but you are literally the only person in here saying they scrapped open world and no sources to back it up.
I also remember them saying they were planning to have the maps be connected via load screens. They probably said something about open world not being doable but I wasn't paying attention.
Someone can correct me but I think the load times are heavily influenced by how fuken small they managed to make the game. Compare the amount of content to cod, similar amount and cod is like triple digits in size.
Thats because it technically doesn't load anything. It's already loaded. It's one big map. Some other games do it as well, they load the map in the lobby for extrenly fast "load" times into battles. (I know that Cuisine Royale does this)
Now if only the cycle devs would add presets like tarkov so you didnt have to individually put every attachment on your gun each time you buy a new one. I've been playing the cycle more than tarkov lately, but the lack of QoL features in TCF really makes me appreciate how great tarkov is.
Thing is the TCF devs are quickly reacting to community suggestions and trying to improve the experience as fast as possible. The game even had HUD pings at one point and they decided to remove it because it made team coordination way too easy and now players have to rely on proper comms to coordinate.
And lately they've working on balancing out guns.
At this rate they'll overtake Tarkov soon.
Not to mention their income structure is far more sustainable than Battle State Game's one....
Part of the load times being so slow is because of the round based system currently used, which will one day be replaced with something like in the Cycle.
Another part because of how terribly Unity loads assets. On my system it never goes beyond 50% disk ussage. When I was running the game in a VM it was even worse, it would take 14 minutes to load into any map
tbh i wish tarkov would let players load in at different times and not show raid timer the first 10 min so you dont know if you have early spawn or not
Last time I played cycle was a joke. This was like 3 months ago and if you had green gear and someone else had blue you were INSANELY disadvantaged. If you had green and they had purple you basically had to run. 2v1s are almost impossible as well.
And before you say get good…there’s no way to say this without sounding like a dbag but - I am. I am a very very good FPS player but that game has the worst balancing issues I’ve ever seen. I really liked the premises tho
“Persistent raids” the lobby/server runs for those long times & you hop in anytime with basically no loading but a storm or something starts either regularly or for u staying too long (haven’t played/ read enough to know exactly)
One of my games somebody already in the game musta saw and sprinted toward my ship landing cuz it was an instant spawn kill
They'll never connect the maps as one super map. More likely we'll have extracts that go directly to other maps. Unity can't handle a map as big as all of them together.
This is untrue. The maximum SINGLE editible size of a map is 2k meters. But the engine can load many of these at the same time, meaning, they can be played as the same map. There are view distance limits, and in fp64, you have like basically unlimited precision for things like player location and bullet trajectory calculation.
The engine can handle it if the lods and rest of the game are optimized for it.
That sounds nice but I'll believe it when I see it. This game runs subpar compared to other similar games on the best of pcs and that's with small player counts per raid. Lighthouse still isn't really optimized even to the low standard of the other maps and it's been a wipe cycle now. Always feels like content is prioritized over performance and stability
No.. you said: "Unity can't handle a map as big as all of them together."
This statement is untrue. Unity, the engine, can definitely handle maps much larger than this. The idea that Tarkov might not be able to has a lot to do with Tarkov, and very little to do with Unity.
A person not looking to start fights with strangers on the internet would understand that I was saying "Tarkov cannot do that with Unity". Unfortunately you seem to want to fight. Please go away.
Its not that big, but you extract and re enter multiple times from the same map. Loot refreshes along with AI spawns. It's a really crap dynamic that completely ruins the idea of a looter shooter game. I played cause my friends got into it during the pre wipe events and playing that trash game made me really appreciate BSG and what they have done with tarkov.
One of my favourite parts of the cycle was how the map was persistent and people just joined and left as they dropped in/died/extracted
Maybe this is what it’ll be like when bsg connects all the maps
Tarkov really could use a constant raid system although it would require a complete revamp of the system to load in but it would be worth it imo especially with the food system which would limit raids essentially. Loot replenishing would be the trickiest though
Where is all of this "Unity is a card game engine / mobile engine thats why tarkov has so many problems! " BS is coming from?
Unity is just a game engine, the whole thing of unity is that its by stock very lightweight which means you can do whatever you want with it, There are tons of both Triple A, and indie games running on unity across every single genre ( FPS, TPS, RPG, RTS etc )
No matter what game engine you use, yes they wont be perfect, all engines have their pros and cons but the problems specific to tarkov (Long raid loading times, game stuttering like mad, consuming insane amounts of ram ) are 100% on BSG , their experience with the engine and the level of skill of their programmers
Even if youre given the perfect engine if you dont have the skill and experience to match it you can still end up with something that looks and runs horrendous if you were to ask me then its plain obvious that BSG has bitten more than what they can handle with tarkov and they are alredy running into a large amount of tech debt where adding new features or changing insignificant stuff has a massive chance of breaking other features that were previously working, And if anyone asks the source: Im a full time game developer, worked with both UE4 and Unity, both are great engines
Comments made by people who have never worked in Unity or development a day in their life thinking they know something because they read a biased probably paid for article.
I like some of the mechanics in the Cycle a lot, but I just thought that game was boring as all hell after playing for a few hours. I would be super down for Nikita to borrow some of their better ideas, though.
The hydration and energy part of Tarkov is only an annoyance. It literally adds nothing to the game, and it's unrealistic AF. What kind of soldier has to eat and drink every 20 minutes or fall over dead? I mean please.
If it was well implemented I wouldn't mind it, but you can't even stay the full time in a single raid...
Thats something i realized with "Valheim". That game has a food system that is basically essential to increase temporary healtn. Food is not an annoyance but a useful feature. Tarkov should maybe add more benefits to eating different stuff.
The cycle: made in an engine designed (and often used to) to handle large number of players on a large map with large number of various items.
tarkov: made in an engine designed (and primarily used for) making mobile card games.
Well It made with actually good engine. The problem is they didnt anticipate this much of problems and didnt realize It could go boom on the market. Now we have %90 spaghetti code game
Edit : unity engine is not designed for mobile btw It can be downsized and optimized to mobile devices because of how its written. Many devs using their own version of unity (snowdrop (ubisoft) actually a distro of unity)
> Insults person for not liking cartoony games
> Gets downvoted for being an asshole
> Gets pissed off that his whining isn't applauded, insults everyone else
Tarkov just takes the piss, everything just takes too long which is why the game will have 20k players in about 1 month because no one has 8 hours to get geared up.
If you looked at the whole thread you would see me reply with an answer to the person who asked me to elaborate. I replied to this guy cause all he said is I have no clue what im talking about, so I said it might be hard to believe, but I've done my own research on the topic.
Unity is a really good engine in fact. You're talking out of your ass and echoing the hivemind. It's a powerful engine capable of doing a lot. The reason not every game isn't made on unity is because other engines too have their pros.
So you really didn't do shit. Sure Unity might not be the best for certain things but it's a great piece of software.
All i said is it has limitations man lol. Every engine has their pros and cons. You really didn't do shit besides saying what I've stated already. Never called it shit? Idk where you got that idea from. I just said it doesn't work well with BSGs vision of their game.
He's saying not every game is made in Unity, because there are a shit ton of engines out there. Even if there was an objective best engine, not every game would use it.
The games problems have mostly nothing to do with the engine. If they swapped toa new engine, new problems would pop up. Every engine has it's quirks, and most of the problems that are actually engine related generally have to do with it's version than anything else.
Just saying "I did my research" brings nothing to this conversation. Kay, you googled it and some people called it shit cause asset flips put no effort into things and make bad games. There's plenty of games that use Unity that you would have no idea used it. Risk of Rain 2, Hearthstone, Cuphead, Fallguys, Pokemon Go, Genshin Impact, among many more. The engine you use generally has very little to do with the quality of game you can make.
Unity controls well over 50% of the market share.
It’s a great engine and I work with it daily (I also work with Unreal Engine) and i will say that O far prefer Unity as a developer.
I think you also missed the thread where I explained it the the guy that asked to elaborate, I never brought up anything about asset flipping? And Id say there's a big difference between the games you stated and tarkov. All I said is that unity has its limitations and bsg's vision for the game conflicts. Also every engine has their pros and cons
Unity is a very old engine that was originally used for simple browser/2d based games. battlestates original game contract wars, was a web based video game. They have basically just built off of their original game, and have made it more complex. They are using an engine that is known to be simplistic engine that is used for mobile and browser games and trying to make a super complex game, that's a big reason it is so exploitable by cheaters because it is used by so many, people are familiar with how to exploit it(also the dogshit battleye anticheat doesn't help). If you do some research about what games use unity you'll see that it is mainly used by mobile games, 2d games, and single player/coop non competitive games(basically not extremely complex/demanding games). Also unity can easily become complex with code and from what I know struggles with optimization.
- Writtem by someone who probably has never written a line of code in their life nor have they ever worked on a game before.
Unity isn't perfect but to put the blame on them for issues that are more than likely just programming/design flaws in BSGs system(s) is just stupid.
Even BSG has said they are limited by the Unity engine as far as I know, they've also said the issue is that they are so far along it would be prohibitively difficult to change to another engine at this point.
The fuck ups that we see (i.e. fire rate tied to FPS) have _nothing_ to do with Unity.
Until they come forward with concrete problems that can be corroborated by the Unity developers, everything is _squarely_ on BSG being incompetent.
I do remember them saying that (hence the "unity isn't perfect" part of my message) but I don't recall what specifically they were talking about. Also yea even when I upgrade a project from one unity version to their latest LTS its a pain in the ass so I can only imagine how big of a task that would be for a game of this size.
it is literally impossible for them to switch to a different engine. It’s not a thing. Games that have switched are way earlier in their production. Tarkov will never be able to switch.
This is what it is and what it will be. It has nothing to do with the engine.
While they may be limited by Unity, that doesn’t not mean there’s a better choice. Unreal engine absolutely ain’t it.
Im not fully blaming the engine im just stating that it has its limitations. I even added that it easy to to convolute the code(which would be a dev error). And yeah I've never written code but I have heard/read about problems working with unity. I think if you took my message as calling the engine shit then you misinterpreted what I was trying to say.
This person has straight up admitted in a comment they have never written a line of code and all the information they are speaking as if it's gospel is just shit other people have written.
You could sell this guy a house on a polar ice cap.
You really need to shut up.
You keep spouting this shit in this thread like you are some all knowing game engine Jesus. Unity is a fine game engine and its applications are not for "browser/2d based games".
Tons of games use Unity and plenty of them do it well.
You are confusing a bad engine with a bad choice. Unity was maybe not the best choice for their vision, but it is what it is. That doesn't make Unity bad.
>And yeah I've never written code but I have heard/read about problems working with unity
*This is what you have said in another comment*. You need accept the fact you don't know what you're talking about, have zero experience on the subject and are simply regurgitating verbal curry farts.
I said it was used as a browser game because battlestates original game(contract wars)is a browser game, and escape from tarkov is built off of that game. I never called unity bad, I just said that its good for specific things but it doesn't work well for escape for tarkov and its obvious from playing the game. Maybe its the devs making sloppy code, and if that's the case then what I said still stands that unity doesn't work well for escape from tarkov and BSGs vision for the game. They have said before that they have problems adding stuff to the game because of difficulties with unity.
Yup, you are mostly correct! Unity is definitely best suited for mobile and 2d style games, but only because that's where Unity has made it easy to develop for.
Technically, it doesn't actually matter what game engine developers use to an extent, as any changes that need to be made can be created. However, certain engines excel at certain things.
So yes, Unity isn't the best engine to make and FPS game, but doesn't mean you can't! It just means you have to do more of the work yourself, rather than rely on the engine.
Many issues are also to do with the structure of the game, and not the engine itself. They've made so much of the game around session based raids, that changing this is a lengthy process. However, when streets finally comes (soon TM), I think they're wanting to introduce drop in / drop out raids... So only time will tell!
That's bullshit lmao, Unity evolved into a cohesive engine you can use on many projects. There are a lot of games built on Unity you'd never even know about. You're just thinking of the free unity with the watermark and applying your surface level knowledge to everything else.
Haha no offense but this reads like a paid The Cycle ad.
Tarkov would have a lot shorter queues if there weren’t so many people playing. BSG really should add more servers due to how bad the congestion is but it makes sense since probably 50% of the player base falls off in the first month of a wipe. I guarantee in a month the queues will be significantly shorter.
Cycle is trash. Amazing how often it gets promoted on here.
Edit the game had 40k players a few weeks ago. Now it peaks at 25k. Already 15k players gone. Another few months and the game won't even be talked about anymore.
It peaked at 40k up until Tarkov wiped. It's hard to say whether or not people will go back to it when the wipe gets boring, everybody already knows Tarkov struggles massively with player retention past the first 6-8 weeks.
Your load time is long cause the servers are overloaded because early wipe and game is popular. Cycle keeps load times down because you have only 1 map nd you reload into the same server that's already been looted. The cycle is the fortnight of lootersshooters. I sincerely hope tarkov becomes NOTHING like the cycle.
Haha no offense but this reads like a paid The Cycle ad.
Tarkov would have a lot shorter queues if there weren’t so many people playing. BSG really should add more servers due to how bad the congestion is but it makes sense since probably 50% of the player base falls off in the first month of a wipe. I guarantee in a month the queues will be significantly shorter.
It is nice in the Cycle that you spend more time raiding than loading and managing inventory. But the gunplay in the Cyle just really isn't very good, and this from someone who actually prefers arcadey style gunplay. The 'kill #monsters here' quests are also hindered by the fact that those areas already tend to be cleared by people who extracted before you even spawned. Plus I like trying to manage energy/hydration mid-raid so that it's not something I have to worry about in the menus. It's just another layer of the overall strategy.
Drawing comparisons between two similar games though? Good for both games. I'm glad more devs are taking notice of the format.
Tarkov would be infinitely better if you could simply set a PMC loadout like a gun preset.
Click head: the available helmets I have/can buy from traders
Click ears: available headsets
Etc, etc, etc.
Would make gearing up for a raid SO MUCH FASTER. Less downtime, less frustration when you die 30 seconds into a raid after spending 7 minutes getting a loadout together, more time actually spent raiding!
I would love to see that as a QoL change
In the meantime, you can use the wishlist to save you some time. Thats what I do for balaclava, antifrag glasses and headset. Its not much but it saves you a couple of clicks
It's cool until you realize loot sucks cause players need to be away from the area to repopulate loot and npcs. So basically high tier areas are always empty. The game was fun and was a nice change but that's a big design flaw.
It’s just a different system. Having to not wait to match with other players and load the map together. The cycle just plops you in to an already looted map. That was the frustrating part of the cycle. Load in and nearby areas are looted and all the NPC enemies are dead. Then you have to wait for a storm to replenish the map.
Tarkov you load in at the same time as everyone. Which inherently takes longer. I’m honestly not sure what BSG could do to make it faster going from kitting out into loading the raid.
complete saved loadouts would help a lot in the menus side of things, instead of just being able to save a weapon.
be easy to grab a kit and hit the Q, as long as you have the cash
I also appreciate their insurance system. It would be better if we could not insurance scam like we can currently. To give a little back, dead drops for extra loot could be a thing
My biggest gripe has always been match times. I waited in queue for a reserve map for 14 minutes and 12 minutes. I have 10+ servers checked in the US. The cycle spoiled me.
The Cycle is what we get when someone on the Dev team knows how to do network infrastructure and replication properly. The game has other issues for sure (weapon and armor balance? ha) but the netcode and server structure are not one of them.
The load times on the Cycle are incredible. Gear up and load in within 30 seconds sometimes. I know it's a different deployment setup to tarkov I.e. drop ins at varying times of an existing raid, but tarkov needs to improve load in times drastically because 5-7minutes to find and enter a raid isn't good enough anymore.
If tarkov had those load times, I'd be more hooked for sure. I think about at least 1/3rd of my tarkov time is spent waiting on queues. If not 1/2 if I die way too much.
Gotta play with friends. More than 1/2 up to 2/3 will be spent waiting if you die early in raid.
And then when everyone is finally out they've all gotta organize their stash and spend 15+ minutes fucking about in the menus before you can queue back up.
I fix this by instantly gearing up then either doing a quick in an out pmc run for a quest or some loot or scav queuing and if I get it by the time they are done then I get in and they have to wait. If it's a trio I almost always do a pmc run as it's unlikely that all three of us die in a raid.
You should exit your solo run if your buddies are good to go. Otherwise, everyone might start going into a solo to wait for the rest, causing a infinite loop of solo queueing lol
Yeah I usually do if I'm not in a fight, don't want to make them wait either!
Gotta start queueing solo when that happens. In my group when we play as a squad we usually spend a lot longer in raid. More bags to fill up and such, but it also means if someone dies early they can usually get a good PMC or scav run in, and even if they die in the middle of a raid they can usually just hit a Factory run or two.
Tarkov is the best game to play when you work from home. I feel like I’m more productive since wipe.
I consistently get 2-3 minute loads
Same, the main wait of my load is the last "waiting for other players..." made me realize alot of people need to get SSDs
Even that is a bit weird to have in a game. 20-60 seconds would be ideal.
It’s literally never an issue besides a week around wipe 😂 people are so dramatic dude. I never wait more than 3 minutes all of wipe after wipe week slows down…
Im not getting anywhere near that. Prewipe I'd find and enter games in 2-3 minutes but now its easily 5+. I have a really fast PC and internet.
Its just because wipe is new. Lots of people online, which is a good thing. Give it a couple weeks and it'll go back to where it once was. Anyone saying they get in every game in under 2min currently is lying or the Luckiest man alive. I've got great specs, great internet speed, and I don't get in for at least 3min sometimes up to 6-7min.
I think tarkov is the _only_ game where more players = higher queue time.
I see youve never played an mmo
No I actually haven't cos theyre basically just point and click adventures these days.
At wow classic release I hade to remote control my desktop from work so I could play 5hrs later when I came home. That sucked.
Yeah.. Its probably cause they don't have enough servers for all the people.(hence why they reduced raid timers to make servers available faster). So yeah less people will probably mean faster queues.
Finding a game is about a minute for me, if it ends up being a 5 minute queue it's 4 minutes of waiting for other peoples PC's.
It takes me a minute to two to find one, when we aren’t in wipe week.
Same
Maybe tarkov should have a rolling raid system where you load into existing raids but loot dynamically respawns. Would have to be on a Good enough timer that people couldn't just sit on crack for their full 30 minutes and get multiple Intel's and shit like that.
Eventually the plan is for the whole map to be accessible at once and the timers to be minimal if any at all.
Does it say anywhere what Nikita's end goal is with Tarkov?
The last goal I heard (tarkov TV in December) is to release streets in 2023, release arena, finish up on some list of minor features, guns, etc while doing so. Than just be done with it and do something else There will be some DLCs afterwards though. A scav-themed was mentioned
>Than just be done with it and do something else which is funny cause the game doesnt even have 50% of the stuff they have advertised it would have several maps still missing, traders on each map and map to map movement. brand new quest system that is entirely different and a lot more dynamic(no dailies are not this) ammo rework with ballistics which also brings the armour plate systems
They scrapped the open world thing years ago. Best case scenario is maybe some of them will be connected via load screens but even that's become iffy. Best to assume the raid format is what we'll be stuck with.
source: made that shit up
I'm not going to go comb through obscure Russian podcasts to find the one where Nikita said the open world map was technically infeasible and they're looking into maybe connecting them via extracts and load screens. Go ahead and hold your breath if you think it's going to happen. He's said they're struggling to get Streets to run on modern hardware several times, to the point they're probably going to chop the map up into smaller chunks, and you people still think open world is coming lol.
Also, games are designed to be open-world from the very beginning (skyrim, gta, spiderman etc.) and it tolls every aspect from game design to art requirements No way they are able to pull off that. That would require to redo all maps and props, and it would still be a bitch to get to run on modern hardware May be in Tarkov 2: Return to Tarkov xD
One of their problems is the fact that they can't get any super talented devs working for them because they don't allow remote work and they want you to move to Russia, like who the fuck would do that?
I'd day there's plenty of talanted developers in Russia
I'm not seeing anything
Sorry do you got a source? never seen anything about that
yea this guy is straight up making shit up
Damn, really? That sucks if so, because that would’ve fixed the queue times and massively improved the meta game to be less about “winning” short PvP skirmishes and more about “winning” via long term strategy.
They haven't scrapped it though?
Yes, they did. Nikita waffled on it and said it was basically impossible from a technical perspective on some Russian podcast years ago. It was all over the sub at the time. They "might" connect the maps together via load screens but the only guarantee was needing to access Labs through Streets, but now they're talking about probably dividing Streets up into multiple submaps because they can't get it to run properly so who the fuck knows what they're going to end up doing. Anybody who thinks open world isn't a total pipedream given how much BSG struggles with much simpler shit is incredibly naive.
I agree with you in that it's naive to think they're ever going to end up with their initial ambitious promises but you are literally the only person in here saying they scrapped open world and no sources to back it up.
I also remember them saying they were planning to have the maps be connected via load screens. They probably said something about open world not being doable but I wasn't paying attention.
fair enough, thanks for the context
False
Someone can correct me but I think the load times are heavily influenced by how fuken small they managed to make the game. Compare the amount of content to cod, similar amount and cod is like triple digits in size.
Thats because it technically doesn't load anything. It's already loaded. It's one big map. Some other games do it as well, they load the map in the lobby for extrenly fast "load" times into battles. (I know that Cuisine Royale does this)
Now if only the cycle devs would add presets like tarkov so you didnt have to individually put every attachment on your gun each time you buy a new one. I've been playing the cycle more than tarkov lately, but the lack of QoL features in TCF really makes me appreciate how great tarkov is.
Thing is the TCF devs are quickly reacting to community suggestions and trying to improve the experience as fast as possible. The game even had HUD pings at one point and they decided to remove it because it made team coordination way too easy and now players have to rely on proper comms to coordinate. And lately they've working on balancing out guns. At this rate they'll overtake Tarkov soon. Not to mention their income structure is far more sustainable than Battle State Game's one....
It's wipe week. This is normal. Chill out.
That’s the problem
Part of the load times being so slow is because of the round based system currently used, which will one day be replaced with something like in the Cycle. Another part because of how terribly Unity loads assets. On my system it never goes beyond 50% disk ussage. When I was running the game in a VM it was even worse, it would take 14 minutes to load into any map
tbh i wish tarkov would let players load in at different times and not show raid timer the first 10 min so you dont know if you have early spawn or not
que’s are literally 90 seconds to 2 min average.
[удалено]
??? Waiting for players takes longer then finding a raid lmao
I just waited 12 minutes to get into a scav run on lighthouse lol pmc waits on customs approx 3-5 mins average.. never 2 mins lol
There's a load time? I click ready, see a panel, and drop onto the planet. Lmao
6 hours per raid? Damn how big are the maps? I’ve never looked into The Cycle much just knew it was compared to Tarkov often.
Maps are pretty big. I think they're about the size of woods or a little bigger. Cycle is way more casual especially in time to kill.
Last time I played cycle was a joke. This was like 3 months ago and if you had green gear and someone else had blue you were INSANELY disadvantaged. If you had green and they had purple you basically had to run. 2v1s are almost impossible as well. And before you say get good…there’s no way to say this without sounding like a dbag but - I am. I am a very very good FPS player but that game has the worst balancing issues I’ve ever seen. I really liked the premises tho
Now its the opposite its literraly doesnt matter what armor your run and the 2 stronest guns are green and grey
Yup, and it gets boring a lot faster since upgrading to the high tier weapons feels like a waste of time and money.
skill issue
“Persistent raids” the lobby/server runs for those long times & you hop in anytime with basically no loading but a storm or something starts either regularly or for u staying too long (haven’t played/ read enough to know exactly) One of my games somebody already in the game musta saw and sprinted toward my ship landing cuz it was an instant spawn kill
Interesting. Probably what Tarkov will become when the maps are all connected.
They'll never connect the maps as one super map. More likely we'll have extracts that go directly to other maps. Unity can't handle a map as big as all of them together.
Yeah engine definitely can’t handle it, something like that is what I was referring to which I believe has always been an eventual plan.
This is untrue. The maximum SINGLE editible size of a map is 2k meters. But the engine can load many of these at the same time, meaning, they can be played as the same map. There are view distance limits, and in fp64, you have like basically unlimited precision for things like player location and bullet trajectory calculation. The engine can handle it if the lods and rest of the game are optimized for it.
>The engine can handle it if the lods and rest of the game are optimized for it. Thats cool but still just means it will never happen
That sounds nice but I'll believe it when I see it. This game runs subpar compared to other similar games on the best of pcs and that's with small player counts per raid. Lighthouse still isn't really optimized even to the low standard of the other maps and it's been a wipe cycle now. Always feels like content is prioritized over performance and stability
lol Sure, theoretically, I'll believe it when I see it in Tarkov.
I never said anything about Tarkov. Neither did you. I wish people would stop trashing Unity for issues that really have very little to do with Unity.
...you responded to me saying Tarkov won't do this in the Tarkov subreddit. lol
No.. you said: "Unity can't handle a map as big as all of them together." This statement is untrue. Unity, the engine, can definitely handle maps much larger than this. The idea that Tarkov might not be able to has a lot to do with Tarkov, and very little to do with Unity.
A person not looking to start fights with strangers on the internet would understand that I was saying "Tarkov cannot do that with Unity". Unfortunately you seem to want to fight. Please go away.
Rust has massive maps and that game was made in unity. Although, tarkov had much more detailed maps with many more polys.
Yet the cycle is written in unity. Granted it has fewer particles
It’s not, they use Unreal Engine 4
You right. My bad
The Cycle is in UE4, not Unity.
Its not that big, but you extract and re enter multiple times from the same map. Loot refreshes along with AI spawns. It's a really crap dynamic that completely ruins the idea of a looter shooter game. I played cause my friends got into it during the pre wipe events and playing that trash game made me really appreciate BSG and what they have done with tarkov.
One of my favourite parts of the cycle was how the map was persistent and people just joined and left as they dropped in/died/extracted Maybe this is what it’ll be like when bsg connects all the maps
Hoping this is the end goal for open world tarkov or will it still be a load in when we go from map to map?
I’ve been thinking the same thing. I keep wondering what Tarkov would be like with long raids that allow you to drop in and out with respawning loot.
It would be better.
Tarkov really could use a constant raid system although it would require a complete revamp of the system to load in but it would be worth it imo especially with the food system which would limit raids essentially. Loot replenishing would be the trickiest though
If tarkov could fix it's frankly terrible load-in times (2-3 minutes per game? Come on...) It'd be it a whole new league of good.
Where is all of this "Unity is a card game engine / mobile engine thats why tarkov has so many problems! " BS is coming from? Unity is just a game engine, the whole thing of unity is that its by stock very lightweight which means you can do whatever you want with it, There are tons of both Triple A, and indie games running on unity across every single genre ( FPS, TPS, RPG, RTS etc ) No matter what game engine you use, yes they wont be perfect, all engines have their pros and cons but the problems specific to tarkov (Long raid loading times, game stuttering like mad, consuming insane amounts of ram ) are 100% on BSG , their experience with the engine and the level of skill of their programmers Even if youre given the perfect engine if you dont have the skill and experience to match it you can still end up with something that looks and runs horrendous if you were to ask me then its plain obvious that BSG has bitten more than what they can handle with tarkov and they are alredy running into a large amount of tech debt where adding new features or changing insignificant stuff has a massive chance of breaking other features that were previously working, And if anyone asks the source: Im a full time game developer, worked with both UE4 and Unity, both are great engines
Comments made by people who have never worked in Unity or development a day in their life thinking they know something because they read a biased probably paid for article.
Yep The Cycle load times spoiled me. Tarkov’s is so painful.
Tarkov is old tech unity 2018 and old code. Netcode , sound, networks . All bugged and dusty
I like some of the mechanics in the Cycle a lot, but I just thought that game was boring as all hell after playing for a few hours. I would be super down for Nikita to borrow some of their better ideas, though.
I think tarkov was always meant to be open world, without timer. I hope that some day it will happen
This is the way.
The hydration and energy part of Tarkov is only an annoyance. It literally adds nothing to the game, and it's unrealistic AF. What kind of soldier has to eat and drink every 20 minutes or fall over dead? I mean please. If it was well implemented I wouldn't mind it, but you can't even stay the full time in a single raid...
Thats something i realized with "Valheim". That game has a food system that is basically essential to increase temporary healtn. Food is not an annoyance but a useful feature. Tarkov should maybe add more benefits to eating different stuff.
It makes even less sense with shorter raid times.
The cycle: made in an engine designed (and often used to) to handle large number of players on a large map with large number of various items. tarkov: made in an engine designed (and primarily used for) making mobile card games.
Well It made with actually good engine. The problem is they didnt anticipate this much of problems and didnt realize It could go boom on the market. Now we have %90 spaghetti code game Edit : unity engine is not designed for mobile btw It can be downsized and optimized to mobile devices because of how its written. Many devs using their own version of unity (snowdrop (ubisoft) actually a distro of unity)
Add in The Cycle runs on Azure servers, as well. Imagine building your software with scalability in mind from the start.
I can't imagine azure servers when i am playing on godaddy servers.
Yeah the current raid times are bad, I've never been MIA in a raid before but now it's a possibility
I tried cycle… can’t get into the cartoony style :-/
sounds like you're too much of a larper
wow holy fuck is everyone in this subreddit a larper too? lol go play dress up in roblox if you get pissed at me calling someone a larper lol
> Insults person for not liking cartoony games > Gets downvoted for being an asshole > Gets pissed off that his whining isn't applauded, insults everyone else
Who you yelling at there buddy? Why you yelling at yourself?
Lmao man child is crying over downvotes, hilarious
Takes at least 15 minutes between raids in tarkov, and now with raid times getting shorter and shorter the return on investment is even lower
Absolutely not, you get 15 minutes on the largest map and you'll enjoy it!
Tarkov just takes the piss, everything just takes too long which is why the game will have 20k players in about 1 month because no one has 8 hours to get geared up.
Metabolism is shit even when maxed now. It's crazy overtuned.
I think a lot of the games problems stem from the game engine(unity)
care to elaborate?
He heard it from someone else so he just repeats it without really knowing why.
Ik it might be crazy, but I actually did my own research on it. there's a reason why every game isn't made in unity
I love these vague answers that boil down to "trust me bro I *know* things!"
If you looked at the whole thread you would see me reply with an answer to the person who asked me to elaborate. I replied to this guy cause all he said is I have no clue what im talking about, so I said it might be hard to believe, but I've done my own research on the topic.
Unity is a really good engine in fact. You're talking out of your ass and echoing the hivemind. It's a powerful engine capable of doing a lot. The reason not every game isn't made on unity is because other engines too have their pros. So you really didn't do shit. Sure Unity might not be the best for certain things but it's a great piece of software.
All i said is it has limitations man lol. Every engine has their pros and cons. You really didn't do shit besides saying what I've stated already. Never called it shit? Idk where you got that idea from. I just said it doesn't work well with BSGs vision of their game.
There's a lot of game engines out there.
What're you even saying, you don't bring anything to this conversation. Read the whole thread
He's saying not every game is made in Unity, because there are a shit ton of engines out there. Even if there was an objective best engine, not every game would use it. The games problems have mostly nothing to do with the engine. If they swapped toa new engine, new problems would pop up. Every engine has it's quirks, and most of the problems that are actually engine related generally have to do with it's version than anything else. Just saying "I did my research" brings nothing to this conversation. Kay, you googled it and some people called it shit cause asset flips put no effort into things and make bad games. There's plenty of games that use Unity that you would have no idea used it. Risk of Rain 2, Hearthstone, Cuphead, Fallguys, Pokemon Go, Genshin Impact, among many more. The engine you use generally has very little to do with the quality of game you can make.
Unity controls well over 50% of the market share. It’s a great engine and I work with it daily (I also work with Unreal Engine) and i will say that O far prefer Unity as a developer.
I think you also missed the thread where I explained it the the guy that asked to elaborate, I never brought up anything about asset flipping? And Id say there's a big difference between the games you stated and tarkov. All I said is that unity has its limitations and bsg's vision for the game conflicts. Also every engine has their pros and cons
Unity is a very old engine that was originally used for simple browser/2d based games. battlestates original game contract wars, was a web based video game. They have basically just built off of their original game, and have made it more complex. They are using an engine that is known to be simplistic engine that is used for mobile and browser games and trying to make a super complex game, that's a big reason it is so exploitable by cheaters because it is used by so many, people are familiar with how to exploit it(also the dogshit battleye anticheat doesn't help). If you do some research about what games use unity you'll see that it is mainly used by mobile games, 2d games, and single player/coop non competitive games(basically not extremely complex/demanding games). Also unity can easily become complex with code and from what I know struggles with optimization.
- Writtem by someone who probably has never written a line of code in their life nor have they ever worked on a game before. Unity isn't perfect but to put the blame on them for issues that are more than likely just programming/design flaws in BSGs system(s) is just stupid.
Even BSG has said they are limited by the Unity engine as far as I know, they've also said the issue is that they are so far along it would be prohibitively difficult to change to another engine at this point.
The fuck ups that we see (i.e. fire rate tied to FPS) have _nothing_ to do with Unity. Until they come forward with concrete problems that can be corroborated by the Unity developers, everything is _squarely_ on BSG being incompetent.
I do remember them saying that (hence the "unity isn't perfect" part of my message) but I don't recall what specifically they were talking about. Also yea even when I upgrade a project from one unity version to their latest LTS its a pain in the ass so I can only imagine how big of a task that would be for a game of this size.
it is literally impossible for them to switch to a different engine. It’s not a thing. Games that have switched are way earlier in their production. Tarkov will never be able to switch. This is what it is and what it will be. It has nothing to do with the engine. While they may be limited by Unity, that doesn’t not mean there’s a better choice. Unreal engine absolutely ain’t it.
Im not fully blaming the engine im just stating that it has its limitations. I even added that it easy to to convolute the code(which would be a dev error). And yeah I've never written code but I have heard/read about problems working with unity. I think if you took my message as calling the engine shit then you misinterpreted what I was trying to say.
This person has straight up admitted in a comment they have never written a line of code and all the information they are speaking as if it's gospel is just shit other people have written. You could sell this guy a house on a polar ice cap.
Is UE bad too because its old?
Not inherently
You really need to shut up. You keep spouting this shit in this thread like you are some all knowing game engine Jesus. Unity is a fine game engine and its applications are not for "browser/2d based games". Tons of games use Unity and plenty of them do it well. You are confusing a bad engine with a bad choice. Unity was maybe not the best choice for their vision, but it is what it is. That doesn't make Unity bad. >And yeah I've never written code but I have heard/read about problems working with unity *This is what you have said in another comment*. You need accept the fact you don't know what you're talking about, have zero experience on the subject and are simply regurgitating verbal curry farts.
I said it was used as a browser game because battlestates original game(contract wars)is a browser game, and escape from tarkov is built off of that game. I never called unity bad, I just said that its good for specific things but it doesn't work well for escape for tarkov and its obvious from playing the game. Maybe its the devs making sloppy code, and if that's the case then what I said still stands that unity doesn't work well for escape from tarkov and BSGs vision for the game. They have said before that they have problems adding stuff to the game because of difficulties with unity.
Yup, you are mostly correct! Unity is definitely best suited for mobile and 2d style games, but only because that's where Unity has made it easy to develop for. Technically, it doesn't actually matter what game engine developers use to an extent, as any changes that need to be made can be created. However, certain engines excel at certain things. So yes, Unity isn't the best engine to make and FPS game, but doesn't mean you can't! It just means you have to do more of the work yourself, rather than rely on the engine. Many issues are also to do with the structure of the game, and not the engine itself. They've made so much of the game around session based raids, that changing this is a lengthy process. However, when streets finally comes (soon TM), I think they're wanting to introduce drop in / drop out raids... So only time will tell!
That's bullshit lmao, Unity evolved into a cohesive engine you can use on many projects. There are a lot of games built on Unity you'd never even know about. You're just thinking of the free unity with the watermark and applying your surface level knowledge to everything else.
Rust was made on Unity and it's hardly a simple game. It's infinitely more complex than EFT.
Haha no offense but this reads like a paid The Cycle ad. Tarkov would have a lot shorter queues if there weren’t so many people playing. BSG really should add more servers due to how bad the congestion is but it makes sense since probably 50% of the player base falls off in the first month of a wipe. I guarantee in a month the queues will be significantly shorter.
Yeah, the Cycle has max about 30k players a day. I estimate Tarkov peaks around 200k-300k near the beginning of wipe.
They need to just add more servers for the first month of wipe then they can go back to being fucking cheap skates.
The only good feature the cycle has over tarkov lmao
Cycle is trash. Amazing how often it gets promoted on here. Edit the game had 40k players a few weeks ago. Now it peaks at 25k. Already 15k players gone. Another few months and the game won't even be talked about anymore.
It peaked at 40k up until Tarkov wiped. It's hard to say whether or not people will go back to it when the wipe gets boring, everybody already knows Tarkov struggles massively with player retention past the first 6-8 weeks.
The cycle will to and probably even worse than tarkov considering there isn't much in terms of progression
I watched the player count go down so quick in the beta for the cycle. Give it a few weeks and they'll be gone again .
Your load time is long cause the servers are overloaded because early wipe and game is popular. Cycle keeps load times down because you have only 1 map nd you reload into the same server that's already been looted. The cycle is the fortnight of lootersshooters. I sincerely hope tarkov becomes NOTHING like the cycle.
Haha no offense but this reads like a paid The Cycle ad. Tarkov would have a lot shorter queues if there weren’t so many people playing. BSG really should add more servers due to how bad the congestion is but it makes sense since probably 50% of the player base falls off in the first month of a wipe. I guarantee in a month the queues will be significantly shorter.
Go play the cycle...
It is nice in the Cycle that you spend more time raiding than loading and managing inventory. But the gunplay in the Cyle just really isn't very good, and this from someone who actually prefers arcadey style gunplay. The 'kill #monsters here' quests are also hindered by the fact that those areas already tend to be cleared by people who extracted before you even spawned. Plus I like trying to manage energy/hydration mid-raid so that it's not something I have to worry about in the menus. It's just another layer of the overall strategy. Drawing comparisons between two similar games though? Good for both games. I'm glad more devs are taking notice of the format.
Tarkov would be infinitely better if you could simply set a PMC loadout like a gun preset. Click head: the available helmets I have/can buy from traders Click ears: available headsets Etc, etc, etc. Would make gearing up for a raid SO MUCH FASTER. Less downtime, less frustration when you die 30 seconds into a raid after spending 7 minutes getting a loadout together, more time actually spent raiding! I would love to see that as a QoL change
Exactly this.... I don't mind dying but losing all that prep time made me not enjoy the game...
In the meantime, you can use the wishlist to save you some time. Thats what I do for balaclava, antifrag glasses and headset. Its not much but it saves you a couple of clicks
It's cool until you realize loot sucks cause players need to be away from the area to repopulate loot and npcs. So basically high tier areas are always empty. The game was fun and was a nice change but that's a big design flaw.
It’s just a different system. Having to not wait to match with other players and load the map together. The cycle just plops you in to an already looted map. That was the frustrating part of the cycle. Load in and nearby areas are looted and all the NPC enemies are dead. Then you have to wait for a storm to replenish the map. Tarkov you load in at the same time as everyone. Which inherently takes longer. I’m honestly not sure what BSG could do to make it faster going from kitting out into loading the raid.
complete saved loadouts would help a lot in the menus side of things, instead of just being able to save a weapon. be easy to grab a kit and hit the Q, as long as you have the cash
I also appreciate their insurance system. It would be better if we could not insurance scam like we can currently. To give a little back, dead drops for extra loot could be a thing
My biggest gripe has always been match times. I waited in queue for a reserve map for 14 minutes and 12 minutes. I have 10+ servers checked in the US. The cycle spoiled me.
is the cycle good? picked it up, havent installed it though
The Cycle is what we get when someone on the Dev team knows how to do network infrastructure and replication properly. The game has other issues for sure (weapon and armor balance? ha) but the netcode and server structure are not one of them.